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Moving the Goalposts – politicalbetting.com

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  • tlg86 said:

    FYI, New Zealand's central bank (#RBNZ) has hiked its its key interest rate by 75 basis points to 4.25%, citing high core #inflation and labour shortages (but no mention of #Brexit... 😉)

    https://rbnz.govt.nz/hub/news/2022/11/higher-interest-rates-necessary


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1595330867420872705

    Bothered me for a while (I need better things to worry about) but why are all these measures in 'basis points'? Isn't it easier to say 0.75%? Or is that misleading because going from say 1% interest to 2% is both described as a 1% increase, but is also a 100% increase?
    I'd say it's a 0.75 percentage points increase, but I guess the finance people prefer basis points as it saves saying the "naught point" bit.
    Insiders have always used basis points because day-to-day market movements are small. What has changed is journalists no longer convert into percentages (or percentage points) for our benefit.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    I'm not sure shovelling an extra £40-50bn pa into the NHS would make that much difference.

    I expect much of it would get sucked up by higher staff wages and inflation in the prices of drugs and equipment, as the NHS sought to buy more.

    It's ecosystem is so huge it operates according to its own rules of microeconomics.

    The best spend of 40 billion would be social care to empty the hospitals of the infirm but not actually in need of hospital care.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    My recent, personal experience of the NHS was fantastic. I went over on my foot, and it was swollen and very painful. After a few days, I rocked up without notice, at the walk-in (gingerly hobble in in my case).
    Was x-rayed, diagnosed with a severe sprain, got 10 minutes one-on-one advice on how to mitigate it and was out in a little over an hour. Modern, clean facility, lovely caring staff.
    That doesn't make it all good of course. But it isn't all bad either. And, of course, it was no charge.

    Walk in centres (minor injury) are brilliant. Take the pressure of A&E, which sadly is full of people who either cannot get to see the GP or don't realise where they should be going. Personally I think on of the best fixes we can do relatively easily is to make sure any medium to large town (and upwards) has walk in minor injury/GP available. Many many minor things just need 15 min consultation to check and resolve, but frustration at not being able to get to your GP is huge. My colleague spent 4 weeks trying to make an appointment for a scheduled blood test. Absolute rubbish.
    Why should you need to go to the GP for that - the tests won't be being run at the surgery they will be being sent to the hospital.

    That's something that could be far better done at a pharmacy.
    Blood sample taking needs a qualified person - I'm not sure pharmacists regularly take bloods (and I should know).
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060

    dixiedean said:

    My recent, personal experience of the NHS was fantastic. I went over on my foot, and it was swollen and very painful. After a few days, I rocked up without notice, at the walk-in (gingerly hobble in in my case).
    Was x-rayed, diagnosed with a severe sprain, got 10 minutes one-on-one advice on how to mitigate it and was out in a little over an hour. Modern, clean facility, lovely caring staff.
    That doesn't make it all good of course. But it isn't all bad either. And, of course, it was no charge.

    Walk in centres (minor injury) are brilliant. Take the pressure of A&E, which sadly is full of people who either cannot get to see the GP or don't realise where they should be going. Personally I think on of the best fixes we can do relatively easily is to make sure any medium to large town (and upwards) has walk in minor injury/GP available. Many many minor things just need 15 min consultation to check and resolve, but frustration at not being able to get to your GP is huge. My colleague spent 4 weeks trying to make an appointment for a scheduled blood test. Absolute rubbish.
    The other advantage of a walkin NHS centres is if you are not near your home town and need to see a GP. That happened to me when on a boat in Wakefield a long way from Exeter. I got seen without a long wait, and no appointment. There was no bill and no insurance claim hassles like I have with the German system.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    edited November 2022
    SandraMc said:

    O/T I was channel hopping last night and came across a political discussion panel which featured Ken Clarke (it might have been GB News). I was shocked by how much he has aged and how rough he looked. He was scruffy, even by the standards of Jeremy Corbyn or Michael Foot. One of his eyes was completely bloodshot.

    On a different theme, last night posters were bemoaning how thick students are these days and one one told of a student who tried to fry dry pasta in a frying pan. But there was a chef on Stanley Tucci's programme about Puglia last week who did just that. He fried the spaghetti until it was crispy and then added the sauce.

    Yes, I saw Clarke in the Commons the other day - limping badly and not looking at all well. He's never been too bothered by appearances but is clearly suffering.

    Fried dry pasta sounds yum to me! That's how I eat kippers - fry them to a crisp so you can enjoy the crunchiness, none of that wimpish "boil in a bag , pick the bones out" stuff.
  • Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Can’t wait for my timeline to fill up with a billion tweets in a row all “BREAKING:” the news of the Supreme Court decision.

    https://twitter.com/alistairkgrant/status/1595328629550063618

    Breaking! Oh er it's a bit complicated, two minutes - what does that even mean? - so are they - eh - no send it to legal

    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1595329922498789381

    I still think there is a chance they allow a ref on a narrow legal interpretation, but make it clear it carries no more weight (legally) than an opinion poll. And then Sturgeon goes for one next year.
    Hmmm. Like a certain recent referendum, I seem to recollect?
    At least we know that the SCons believe the last Holyrood election settled whether or not there should be another referendum.





  • darkage said:

    malcolmg said:

    darkage said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    pillsbury said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak faces a rebellion on planning reform - but will the govt try to delay the vote? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-22/sunak-faces-first-tory-rebellion-over-uk-housebuilding-targets

    Rebels expecting votes on the Villiers amendments on Monday but rumours around the vote may be pulled …?

    What is the Villiers amendment?

    Feels like they've not really acehived anything since ditching Boris's attempt at reforms which got Jenrick sacked.
    Best explanation of it - https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1594243295638482945?s=46&t=ulZnK8gXpBM2m2fmzXVNeg
    "On Wednesday the Levelling Up and Regeneration Bill returns to the House of Commons. It contains a set of amendments proposed by Theresa Villiers, a former environment secretary, with the support of Iain Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling, Damian Green, John Redwood, Tracey Crouch, Alicia Kearns and others. The effect will be to eviscerate the planning system as we know it by making all housing targets set by Whitehall purely advisory and removing the existing presumption in favour of development — in other words, scrapping the two core policies that tell councils they have to build, and punish them for not doing so."
    Contemptible. If that goes through, the Tories deserve a landslide defeat.
    Nimbies - disproportionately drawn from amongst, your guessed it, the serried ranks of the selfish old - will love it. Every sop to the grey vote *decreases* the likelihood of the Tories being flushed down the toilet. Expect a whole lot more of this kind of thing.
    Nah, its self-defeating. Nimbies still only get 1 vote each, no matter how much they love the Tories. Tories appealling to Tories is like Labour appealling to Corbynites/SJW/Momentum etc

    More people getting onto the property ladder gives a bigger pool of Tory voters. More people stuck renting or cohabiting in others homes, gives a bigger pool of Labour voters, even if those already voting Tory "love it".
    It is always worth repeating at this juncture that about half of the entire electorate, accounting for age-related differences in turnout, is aged over 55. This cohort consists very largely of affluent homeowning pensioners, soon-to-be pensioners, and expectant heirs to pensioner property fortunes.

    Today's Tory MPs realise, of course, that the young despise them, and that the problem will get worse as all those youthful have-nots age, but why should they care about that? They want to save their jobs now, not worry about what might happen in twenty years' time when most of the Boomers are dead.
    There are lots of hard-up pensioners out there, and quite a few rich young and middle-aged people.
    That's whataboutery. The average pensioner household now has, after housing costs, a higher disposable income than the average working household. Most pensioners are homeowners. QED.

    State pension income is guaranteed to rise by inflation or more (depending on circumstances) by the triple lock, whereas most earned incomes are in real terms decline. Earned incomes are taxed to absolute fuck to service the Government's expenses (largely pensions, health and social care for pensioners, and a colossal debt racked up during the Covid lockdowns,) whilst taxation of property and inheritances is kept at rock bottom. Childcare costs are allowed to inflate out of control, whilst ministers persist with plans (even if briefly delayed) to cap social care costs so as to allow estates to be preserved. The supply of new homes is deliberately and systematically deprioritised and choked off, so that prices will be kept buoyant, to the advantage of existing owners (i.e. older people.) Even Brexit was a pure and simple case of the will of the aged trumping that of the young. The list goes on.

    Yes, quite a lot of pensioners are hard-up and quite a lot of younger people are very comfortable, but taken as a whole the balance of society is ludicrously tilted in favour of the former and against the latter - and it's at the core of all of our problems as a nation. A country that sinks an ever-greater share of its wealth into servicing the care and interests of unproductive assets (houses) and unproductive people (the retired) is doomed to failure. Britain is doomed to failure. End of story.
    I think a big part of the problem is that a) a lot of wealthy pensioners slow down in their old age and cannot see the problem. Last week I needed to see a doctor and it took over an hour to make an appointment. I had to go and register with a different surgery. A big problem is that older people with their unlimited time and medical problems are crowding out access to the universal health system. And because they don't pay NI, which as we know is just a form of tax, they pay far lower marginal rates of income tax. As a group they are beneficiaries of an unequal structure.

    The other part of the problem is that young people don't see the problem. They fall for the same myths that 'old people have done their shift and deserve what they get as they have paid in to the system for their whole lives'. But everyone should still be paying the same amount of tax. A while back I looked at the situation and concluded that I was being mugged and concluded that I need to structure my economic affairs in such a way that I pay as little tax as possible as PAYE employment was never going to make me wealthy however much I earn. But actually everyone should just be paying a similar amount of tax and this starts with pensioners paying something like NI when their combined income exceeds the national living wage.
    Holy crap their are some evil gits on here
    I know you are just winding people up but you sound like an example of what I am describing; a wealthy pensioner who can't see the problem.

    Instead of means testing the state pension, wouldn't it just be simpler to give pensioners a lower tax threshold ? - above the level of state pension but below the threshold for working people.
  • FYI, New Zealand's central bank (#RBNZ) has hiked its its key interest rate by 75 basis points to 4.25%, citing high core #inflation and labour shortages (but no mention of #Brexit... 😉)

    https://rbnz.govt.nz/hub/news/2022/11/higher-interest-rates-necessary


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1595330867420872705

    And our Covid lockdowns were great because other countries also had Covid deaths, so our government could not possibly have been wrong.
    Do people actually say that? You have to look at the context of the lockdowns and consider what could have happened. In March 2020 we were seeing TV reports from Italy of overwhelmed hospitals - the system not being able to cope. The danger was that it would happen here, and thousands or tens of thousands would die, who would have lived if given suitable treatment.

    Lockdown wasn't great - it was a necessary evil until we reached the point we have now - virtually everyone in the UK has antibodies of some type against Covid and the IFR is vastly reduced c.f. to 2020. We are now paying for lockdown and the support government provided - inflation and the CoL crisis. There is a strong argument that after not being cautious enough in Dec 2020 the government went the other way with into 2021 and kept measures in place too long. But ultimately, in 2020, we had no other options, at least if you didn't want 40 year olds dying at home because the hospitals were full.
    And being a grown up involves accepting that sometimes there is no good option, just different shades of bad, but there's still a need to look for the best option.

  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,644

    tlg86 said:

    FYI, New Zealand's central bank (#RBNZ) has hiked its its key interest rate by 75 basis points to 4.25%, citing high core #inflation and labour shortages (but no mention of #Brexit... 😉)

    https://rbnz.govt.nz/hub/news/2022/11/higher-interest-rates-necessary


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1595330867420872705

    Bothered me for a while (I need better things to worry about) but why are all these measures in 'basis points'? Isn't it easier to say 0.75%? Or is that misleading because going from say 1% interest to 2% is both described as a 1% increase, but is also a 100% increase?
    I'd say it's a 0.75 percentage points increase, but I guess the finance people prefer basis points as it saves saying the "naught point" bit.
    Insiders have always used basis points because day-to-day market movements are small. What has changed is journalists no longer convert into percentages (or percentage points) for our benefit.
    Helpfully it also forestall the question "is it up 1% or is it 1% larger?".
  • pillsbury said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    pillsbury said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak faces a rebellion on planning reform - but will the govt try to delay the vote? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-22/sunak-faces-first-tory-rebellion-over-uk-housebuilding-targets

    Rebels expecting votes on the Villiers amendments on Monday but rumours around the vote may be pulled …?

    What is the Villiers amendment?

    Feels like they've not really acehived anything since ditching Boris's attempt at reforms which got Jenrick sacked.
    Best explanation of it - https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1594243295638482945?s=46&t=ulZnK8gXpBM2m2fmzXVNeg
    "On Wednesday the Levelling Up and Regeneration Bill returns to the House of Commons. It contains a set of amendments proposed by Theresa Villiers, a former environment secretary, with the support of Iain Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling, Damian Green, John Redwood, Tracey Crouch, Alicia Kearns and others. The effect will be to eviscerate the planning system as we know it by making all housing targets set by Whitehall purely advisory and removing the existing presumption in favour of development — in other words, scrapping the two core policies that tell councils they have to build, and punish them for not doing so."
    Contemptible. If that goes through, the Tories deserve a landslide defeat.
    Nimbies - disproportionately drawn from amongst, your guessed it, the serried ranks of the selfish old - will love it. Every sop to the grey vote *decreases* the likelihood of the Tories being flushed down the toilet. Expect a whole lot more of this kind of thing.
    Nah, its self-defeating. Nimbies still only get 1 vote each, no matter how much they love the Tories. Tories appealling to Tories is like Labour appealling to Corbynites/SJW/Momentum etc

    More people getting onto the property ladder gives a bigger pool of Tory voters. More people stuck renting or cohabiting in others homes, gives a bigger pool of Labour voters, even if those already voting Tory "love it".
    It is always worth repeating at this juncture that about half of the entire electorate, accounting for age-related differences in turnout, is aged over 55. This cohort consists very largely of affluent homeowning pensioners, soon-to-be pensioners, and expectant heirs to pensioner property fortunes.

    Today's Tory MPs realise, of course, that the young despise them, and that the problem will get worse as all those youthful have-nots age, but why should they care about that? They want to save their jobs now, not worry about what might happen in twenty years' time when most of the Boomers are dead.
    There are lots of hard-up pensioners out there, and quite a few rich young and middle-aged people.
    That's whataboutery. The average pensioner household now has, after housing costs, a higher disposable income than the average working household. Most pensioners are homeowners. QED.

    State pension income is guaranteed to rise by inflation or more (depending on circumstances) by the triple lock, whereas most earned incomes are in real terms decline. Earned incomes are taxed to absolute fuck to service the Government's expenses (largely pensions, health and social care for pensioners, and a colossal debt racked up during the Covid lockdowns,) whilst taxation of property and inheritances is kept at rock bottom. Childcare costs are allowed to inflate out of control, whilst ministers persist with plans (even if briefly delayed) to cap social care costs so as to allow estates to be preserved. The supply of new homes is deliberately and systematically deprioritised and choked off, so that prices will be kept buoyant, to the advantage of existing owners (i.e. older people.) Even Brexit was a pure and simple case of the will of the aged trumping that of the young. The list goes on.

    Yes, quite a lot of pensioners are hard-up and quite a lot of younger people are very comfortable, but taken as a whole the balance of society is ludicrously tilted in favour of the former and against the latter - and it's at the core of all of our problems as a nation. A country that sinks an ever-greater share of its wealth into servicing the care and interests of unproductive assets (houses) and unproductive people (the retired) is doomed to failure. Britain is doomed to failure. End of story.
    Yes the rich pensioners getting £9K maximum after paying in for up to 50 years , bollox
    Why do we means test every other benefit except for the State Pension? Why is it the only benefit that goes up by the triple lock?

    That 9k would be far better directed at someone disabled, or invested elsewhere.
    Away you half witted cretin. People have paid for 50 years for that pittance and if lucky enough to have any other income get taxed as well. Just hope you never have to live on it, hard to believe how low this country has fallen when lazy , greedy young people grudge poor sods who have worked 50 years their meagre pension.
    Being "taxed" by less than half the rate of tax that others on the exact same income are taxed is not being taxed the same you stupid nimwit.

    But then you're so thick you think NI isn't a tax. Greedy is people like you thinking taxes are for others and not for them.

    Saying that everyone on the same income should pay the same rate of tax is basic fairness and reasonableness, not evil or greedy.
    A bit rude, surely? NI is a form of insurance; clue in name.
    The name is a lie, NI is just another tax. There is no hypothecation, no 'pot' of the NI accruing. You could definitely have a system where NI was an insurance scheme, but we don't at the moment.
    Hypothecation and "pots" is irrelevant to a government which is incapable of going broke. Think about it: if you did have a separate fund you'd want it invested in something safe. The safest safe thing is gilts. Gilts are bare, unsecured promises by government to pay, so where is the additional security?

    Insurance companies don't have pots either BTW, they have assets which they hope match their liabilities. If your insurers go bust you don't get paid.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    pillsbury said:

    pillsbury said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    pillsbury said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak faces a rebellion on planning reform - but will the govt try to delay the vote? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-22/sunak-faces-first-tory-rebellion-over-uk-housebuilding-targets

    Rebels expecting votes on the Villiers amendments on Monday but rumours around the vote may be pulled …?

    What is the Villiers amendment?

    Feels like they've not really acehived anything since ditching Boris's attempt at reforms which got Jenrick sacked.
    Best explanation of it - https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1594243295638482945?s=46&t=ulZnK8gXpBM2m2fmzXVNeg
    "On Wednesday the Levelling Up and Regeneration Bill returns to the House of Commons. It contains a set of amendments proposed by Theresa Villiers, a former environment secretary, with the support of Iain Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling, Damian Green, John Redwood, Tracey Crouch, Alicia Kearns and others. The effect will be to eviscerate the planning system as we know it by making all housing targets set by Whitehall purely advisory and removing the existing presumption in favour of development — in other words, scrapping the two core policies that tell councils they have to build, and punish them for not doing so."
    Contemptible. If that goes through, the Tories deserve a landslide defeat.
    Nimbies - disproportionately drawn from amongst, your guessed it, the serried ranks of the selfish old - will love it. Every sop to the grey vote *decreases* the likelihood of the Tories being flushed down the toilet. Expect a whole lot more of this kind of thing.
    Nah, its self-defeating. Nimbies still only get 1 vote each, no matter how much they love the Tories. Tories appealling to Tories is like Labour appealling to Corbynites/SJW/Momentum etc

    More people getting onto the property ladder gives a bigger pool of Tory voters. More people stuck renting or cohabiting in others homes, gives a bigger pool of Labour voters, even if those already voting Tory "love it".
    It is always worth repeating at this juncture that about half of the entire electorate, accounting for age-related differences in turnout, is aged over 55. This cohort consists very largely of affluent homeowning pensioners, soon-to-be pensioners, and expectant heirs to pensioner property fortunes.

    Today's Tory MPs realise, of course, that the young despise them, and that the problem will get worse as all those youthful have-nots age, but why should they care about that? They want to save their jobs now, not worry about what might happen in twenty years' time when most of the Boomers are dead.
    There are lots of hard-up pensioners out there, and quite a few rich young and middle-aged people.
    That's whataboutery. The average pensioner household now has, after housing costs, a higher disposable income than the average working household. Most pensioners are homeowners. QED.

    State pension income is guaranteed to rise by inflation or more (depending on circumstances) by the triple lock, whereas most earned incomes are in real terms decline. Earned incomes are taxed to absolute fuck to service the Government's expenses (largely pensions, health and social care for pensioners, and a colossal debt racked up during the Covid lockdowns,) whilst taxation of property and inheritances is kept at rock bottom. Childcare costs are allowed to inflate out of control, whilst ministers persist with plans (even if briefly delayed) to cap social care costs so as to allow estates to be preserved. The supply of new homes is deliberately and systematically deprioritised and choked off, so that prices will be kept buoyant, to the advantage of existing owners (i.e. older people.) Even Brexit was a pure and simple case of the will of the aged trumping that of the young. The list goes on.

    Yes, quite a lot of pensioners are hard-up and quite a lot of younger people are very comfortable, but taken as a whole the balance of society is ludicrously tilted in favour of the former and against the latter - and it's at the core of all of our problems as a nation. A country that sinks an ever-greater share of its wealth into servicing the care and interests of unproductive assets (houses) and unproductive people (the retired) is doomed to failure. Britain is doomed to failure. End of story.
    Yes the rich pensioners getting £9K maximum after paying in for up to 50 years , bollox
    Why do we means test every other benefit except for the State Pension? Why is it the only benefit that goes up by the triple lock?

    That 9k would be far better directed at someone disabled, or invested elsewhere.
    Away you half witted cretin. People have paid for 50 years for that pittance and if lucky enough to have any other income get taxed as well. Just hope you never have to live on it, hard to believe how low this country has fallen when lazy , greedy young people grudge poor sods who have worked 50 years their meagre pension.
    Being "taxed" by less than half the rate of tax that others on the exact same income are taxed is not being taxed the same you stupid nimwit.

    But then you're so thick you think NI isn't a tax. Greedy is people like you thinking taxes are for others and not for them.

    Saying that everyone on the same income should pay the same rate of tax is basic fairness and reasonableness, not evil or greedy.
    A bit rude, surely? NI is a form of insurance; clue in name.
    The name is a lie, NI is just another tax. There is no hypothecation, no 'pot' of the NI accruing. You could definitely have a system where NI was an insurance scheme, but we don't at the moment.
    Hypothecation and "pots" is irrelevant to a government which is incapable of going broke. Think about it: if you did have a separate fund you'd want it invested in something safe. The safest safe thing is gilts. Gilts are bare, unsecured promises by government to pay, so where is the additional security?

    Insurance companies don't have pots either BTW, they have assets which they hope match their liabilities. If your insurers go bust you don't get paid.
    Its irrelevant - NI is no longer treated as a seperate entity - its all just tax. See also the Road Fund Licence.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    MaxPB said:

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
    Totally disagree - see earlier post. The lack of good support staff doing admin is a major problem.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    MaxPB said:

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
    How would you know which 50%?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    My recent, personal experience of the NHS was fantastic. I went over on my foot, and it was swollen and very painful. After a few days, I rocked up without notice, at the walk-in (gingerly hobble in in my case).
    Was x-rayed, diagnosed with a severe sprain, got 10 minutes one-on-one advice on how to mitigate it and was out in a little over an hour. Modern, clean facility, lovely caring staff.
    That doesn't make it all good of course. But it isn't all bad either. And, of course, it was no charge.

    Walk in centres (minor injury) are brilliant. Take the pressure of A&E, which sadly is full of people who either cannot get to see the GP or don't realise where they should be going. Personally I think on of the best fixes we can do relatively easily is to make sure any medium to large town (and upwards) has walk in minor injury/GP available. Many many minor things just need 15 min consultation to check and resolve, but frustration at not being able to get to your GP is huge. My colleague spent 4 weeks trying to make an appointment for a scheduled blood test. Absolute rubbish.
    Why should you need to go to the GP for that - the tests won't be being run at the surgery they will be being sent to the hospital.

    That's something that could be far better done at a pharmacy.
    Blood sample taking needs a qualified person - I'm not sure pharmacists regularly take bloods (and I should know).
    Medical student or higher I'd have guessed.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
    How would you know which 50%?
    Don't think it would make a difference.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    MaxPB said:

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
    Totally disagree - see earlier post. The lack of good support staff doing admin is a major problem.
    Misdiagnosis, the admin generated is the problem. Admin staff invariably create busy work, get rid of them and the busy work also disappears and no one notices.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    What time is the big SindyRef reveal? Is it going to interfere with watching Croatia v Morocco?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited November 2022
    The UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls, its causes and
    consequences
    on Scotland's GRR bill:

    However, I share the concern that such proposals would potentially open the door for violent males who identify as men to abuse the process of acquiring a gender certificate and the rights that are associated with it.....

    However, the ongoing efforts to reform existing legislation by the Scottish Government do not sufficiently take into consideration the specific needs of women and girls in all their diversity, particularly those at risk of male violence and those who have experienced male violence, as it does not provide for any safeguarding measures to ensure that the procedure is not, as far as can be reasonably assured, abused by sexual predators and other perpetrators of violence. These include access to both single sex spaces and gender-based spaces. It is important to note that insistence on safeguarding and risk management protocols does not arise from the belief that transgender people represent a safeguarding threat. It is instead based on empirical evidence that demonstrates that the majority of sex offenders are male, and that persistent sex offenders will go to great lengths to gain access to those they wish to abuse.


    https://spcommreports.ohchr.org/TMResultsBase/DownLoadPublicCommunicationFile?gId=27681
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Court judgement due at 9.45am, according to BBC website.
  • FYI, New Zealand's central bank (#RBNZ) has hiked its its key interest rate by 75 basis points to 4.25%, citing high core #inflation and labour shortages (but no mention of #Brexit... 😉)

    https://rbnz.govt.nz/hub/news/2022/11/higher-interest-rates-necessary


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1595330867420872705

    Bothered me for a while (I need better things to worry about) but why are all these measures in 'basis points'? Isn't it easier to say 0.75%? Or is that misleading because going from say 1% interest to 2% is both described as a 1% increase, but is also a 100% increase?
    Basis points are used in financial markets where the difference between 1.00% and 1.05% can be a big deal. I guess the usage has seeped out into the outside world.
    In your example at the end, the proper thing would be to refer to a 1 percentage point (1pp) increase. Neither a 1% increase or a 100% increase is really accurate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    Hugely important day in Scottish politics, with the Supreme Court ruling on Holyrood’s ability to stage #indyref2. Possible SC outcomes:

    🟢 Green light for the Scottish Parliament

    ⛔️Outwith powers

    ❗️Won’t rule at this stage

    ‼️Won’t rule definitively but gives a steer


    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1595325732565450753

    The only one not great for the SNP is a refusal to rule, since the others either give what they want or is evil English judges using legal technicalities to deny democracy.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    My recent, personal experience of the NHS was fantastic. I went over on my foot, and it was swollen and very painful. After a few days, I rocked up without notice, at the walk-in (gingerly hobble in in my case).
    Was x-rayed, diagnosed with a severe sprain, got 10 minutes one-on-one advice on how to mitigate it and was out in a little over an hour. Modern, clean facility, lovely caring staff.
    That doesn't make it all good of course. But it isn't all bad either. And, of course, it was no charge.

    Walk in centres (minor injury) are brilliant. Take the pressure of A&E, which sadly is full of people who either cannot get to see the GP or don't realise where they should be going. Personally I think on of the best fixes we can do relatively easily is to make sure any medium to large town (and upwards) has walk in minor injury/GP available. Many many minor things just need 15 min consultation to check and resolve, but frustration at not being able to get to your GP is huge. My colleague spent 4 weeks trying to make an appointment for a scheduled blood test. Absolute rubbish.
    Why should you need to go to the GP for that - the tests won't be being run at the surgery they will be being sent to the hospital.

    That's something that could be far better done at a pharmacy.
    Blood sample taking needs a qualified person - I'm not sure pharmacists regularly take bloods (and I should know).
    That's intriguing. Do you have one of these blood disorders where they take a syringe full every few days or do you run a chemist?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Can’t wait for my timeline to fill up with a billion tweets in a row all “BREAKING:” the news of the Supreme Court decision.

    https://twitter.com/alistairkgrant/status/1595328629550063618

    Breaking! Oh er it's a bit complicated, two minutes - what does that even mean? - so are they - eh - no send it to legal

    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1595329922498789381

    I still think there is a chance they allow a ref on a narrow legal interpretation, but make it clear it carries no more weight (legally) than an opinion poll. And then Sturgeon goes for one next year.
    Hmmm. Like a certain recent referendum, I seem to recollect?
    Its the strongest argument they have it appears. Of course, in both cases the winners would claim, as happened, that it was morally binding, and everyone knows that. It might still be that the different powers of the authorising bodies mean even such a poll is beyond their powers, but it was at least arguable.
  • From the court’s own summary, the judges will first decide if proper procedure has been followed to bring the case…then whether they should rule on it regardless…and then, perhaps, on whether a referendum bill is within Holyrood’s remit.

    🚨This may not be straightforward🚨


    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1595344751926153216
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    My recent, personal experience of the NHS was fantastic. I went over on my foot, and it was swollen and very painful. After a few days, I rocked up without notice, at the walk-in (gingerly hobble in in my case).
    Was x-rayed, diagnosed with a severe sprain, got 10 minutes one-on-one advice on how to mitigate it and was out in a little over an hour. Modern, clean facility, lovely caring staff.
    That doesn't make it all good of course. But it isn't all bad either. And, of course, it was no charge.

    The quality of care in the NHS is generally very good. The standard of customer srrvice is awful.
    It is certainly cheap though.
    I'm not sure it's that cheap.

    Last time I checked the % of GDP we spend on health wasn't far off the European average.
    17th in GDP per capita according to this (2019 figures but I shouldn't think it's changed much - you can click on the 2019 column to sort).

    Broadly I agree with Cookie - clinical care generally great, everything around booking etc. bad. It's very noticeable that the service has responded to the financial squeeze by maintaining front-line staff and cutting back on support staff. I had an excellent, detailed, careful half-hour checkup for a minor bone injury yesterday and was asked for a follow-up in a few weeks - I asked if they can send confirmation and the hospital doctor said "I can ask, but sadly doesn't mean it will necessarily happen".
    IMO NHS significantly underspends on management, admin, back-office, capital. That's where we need to put resources and efforts to drive efficiency.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
    Totally disagree - see earlier post. The lack of good support staff doing admin is a major problem.
    Misdiagnosis, the admin generated is the problem. Admin staff invariably create busy work, get rid of them and the busy work also disappears and no one notices.
    I'm not convinced that this is true. From my interactions with NHS staff, one of the bigger complaints was that there was often a tier of management that was unnecessary - i.e. it was sitting between senior management and the medical teams.
    As related issue - what do you think the support staff do? Hospitals employ a lot of people that are not doctors and nurses. Cleaners, catering staff, porters, maintenance staff. Then there are those associated with medical teams - PA's, receptionists, clinical trials staff etc. I'm not sure who is in your firing line, but I'm pretty sure that most of them are doing something important.

    There are some who you might think could be lost - diversity officers etc, although I doubt that there are many at each trust and they will be doing a role.

    One of the bigger wastes of time will be collating data to match up for performance monitoring. This is and always has been the issue with setting targets, such as the 4 h wait time in A&E. If you set targets you need to measure stuff, otherwise you don't know if you are meeting targets. Unpalatable though it might be, getting rid of some of the targets might actually make things work better. Targets also distort systems - people will take strange decisions to get round them. A good example arose with the GP appointment waiting times under Blair.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
    Totally disagree - see earlier post. The lack of good support staff doing admin is a major problem.
    Misdiagnosis, the admin generated is the problem. Admin staff invariably create busy work, get rid of them and the busy work also disappears and no one notices.
    Without looking it up -> what proportion of NHS staff are managers?
    Would you guess that this is more or less than in other sectors?
  • kle4 said:

    Hugely important day in Scottish politics, with the Supreme Court ruling on Holyrood’s ability to stage #indyref2. Possible SC outcomes:

    🟢 Green light for the Scottish Parliament

    ⛔️Outwith powers

    ❗️Won’t rule at this stage

    ‼️Won’t rule definitively but gives a steer


    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1595325732565450753

    The only one not great for the SNP is a refusal to rule, since the others either give what they want or is evil English judges using legal technicalities to deny democracy.
    At least PB has evolved, used to be Alpha to Omega was bad for the EssEnnPee, usually with honeymoon ending consequences.
  • From the court’s own summary, the judges will first decide if proper procedure has been followed to bring the case…then whether they should rule on it regardless…and then, perhaps, on whether a referendum bill is within Holyrood’s remit.

    🚨This may not be straightforward🚨


    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1595344751926153216

    If it's like Supreme Court cases I have had to follow in the past, the oral judgment will be a summary of the written one, so we will know broadly what has been decided quite quickly, but the detail will take a lot longer to absorb. I am not sure if the written opinion is issued at the same time as the oral one or if it is published afterwards. The parties themselves will already know the outcome.

  • The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,707

    SandraMc said:

    O/T I was channel hopping last night and came across a political discussion panel which featured Ken Clarke (it might have been GB News). I was shocked by how much he has aged and how rough he looked. He was scruffy, even by the standards of Jeremy Corbyn or Michael Foot. One of his eyes was completely bloodshot.

    On a different theme, last night posters were bemoaning how thick students are these days and one one told of a student who tried to fry dry pasta in a frying pan. But there was a chef on Stanley Tucci's programme about Puglia last week who did just that. He fried the spaghetti until it was crispy and then added the sauce.

    Yes, I saw Clarke in the Commons the other day - limping badly and not looking at all well. He's never been too bothered by appearances but is clearly suffering.

    Fried dry pasta sounds yum to me! That's how I eat kippers - fry them to a crisp so you can enjoy the crunchiness, none of that wimpish "boil in a bag , pick the bones out" stuff.
    If you've not tried it 'Egyptian Rice' is lovely. Fry little bits of vermicelli in a pan, then add the rice and cook (spices, oil/ghee/etc to your liking). Surprisingly delicious.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    kle4 said:

    Hugely important day in Scottish politics, with the Supreme Court ruling on Holyrood’s ability to stage #indyref2. Possible SC outcomes:

    🟢 Green light for the Scottish Parliament

    ⛔️Outwith powers

    ❗️Won’t rule at this stage

    ‼️Won’t rule definitively but gives a steer


    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1595325732565450753

    The only one not great for the SNP is a refusal to rule, since the others either give what they want or is evil English judges using legal technicalities to deny democracy.
    At least PB has evolved, used to be Alpha to Omega was bad for the EssEnnPee, usually with honeymoon ending consequences.
    I'm still hoping, but I'm beginning to suspect 8 years of political preeminence domestically is not about to collapse overnight.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited November 2022
    Judgment will be handed down in the case UKSC 2022/0098 - Reference by the Lord Advocate - Scottish Independence Reference Bill - on Wednesday 23 November 2022, 9.45am https://supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2022-0098.html

    https://twitter.com/UKSupremeCourt/status/1592838645840777216

    Will Livestream here: https://www.supremecourt.uk/live/court-01.html
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
    Totally disagree - see earlier post. The lack of good support staff doing admin is a major problem.
    Misdiagnosis, the admin generated is the problem. Admin staff invariably create busy work, get rid of them and the busy work also disappears and no one notices.
    By way of triage, why not sack 50% of your own back end staff with immediate effect, and let us know how you get on?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    rkrkrk said:

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    My recent, personal experience of the NHS was fantastic. I went over on my foot, and it was swollen and very painful. After a few days, I rocked up without notice, at the walk-in (gingerly hobble in in my case).
    Was x-rayed, diagnosed with a severe sprain, got 10 minutes one-on-one advice on how to mitigate it and was out in a little over an hour. Modern, clean facility, lovely caring staff.
    That doesn't make it all good of course. But it isn't all bad either. And, of course, it was no charge.

    The quality of care in the NHS is generally very good. The standard of customer srrvice is awful.
    It is certainly cheap though.
    I'm not sure it's that cheap.

    Last time I checked the % of GDP we spend on health wasn't far off the European average.
    17th in GDP per capita according to this (2019 figures but I shouldn't think it's changed much - you can click on the 2019 column to sort).

    Broadly I agree with Cookie - clinical care generally great, everything around booking etc. bad. It's very noticeable that the service has responded to the financial squeeze by maintaining front-line staff and cutting back on support staff. I had an excellent, detailed, careful half-hour checkup for a minor bone injury yesterday and was asked for a follow-up in a few weeks - I asked if they can send confirmation and the hospital doctor said "I can ask, but sadly doesn't mean it will necessarily happen".
    IMO NHS significantly underspends on management, admin, back-office, capital. That's where we need to put resources and efforts to drive efficiency.
    Good admin resourcing is vital for a big organisation. Remove it in some simplistic 'admin is unnecessary way' and the wrong people have to do it, processes break down, and you end up rehiring.

    With the NHS those I know who interact with it don't cite the admin as the problem but the complex oversight and interelatedness of everything, with utter confusion and delay the result. I don't know how to address that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
    How would you know which 50%?
    A very astute point. Its be Musk and Twitter but in a way which matters.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425
    Quite a lot of police in Edinburgh this morning!

    I saw them ticket someone parked in the bike lane so not entirely wasted time.
  • rkrkrk said:

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    My recent, personal experience of the NHS was fantastic. I went over on my foot, and it was swollen and very painful. After a few days, I rocked up without notice, at the walk-in (gingerly hobble in in my case).
    Was x-rayed, diagnosed with a severe sprain, got 10 minutes one-on-one advice on how to mitigate it and was out in a little over an hour. Modern, clean facility, lovely caring staff.
    That doesn't make it all good of course. But it isn't all bad either. And, of course, it was no charge.

    The quality of care in the NHS is generally very good. The standard of customer srrvice is awful.
    It is certainly cheap though.
    I'm not sure it's that cheap.

    Last time I checked the % of GDP we spend on health wasn't far off the European average.
    17th in GDP per capita according to this (2019 figures but I shouldn't think it's changed much - you can click on the 2019 column to sort).

    Broadly I agree with Cookie - clinical care generally great, everything around booking etc. bad. It's very noticeable that the service has responded to the financial squeeze by maintaining front-line staff and cutting back on support staff. I had an excellent, detailed, careful half-hour checkup for a minor bone injury yesterday and was asked for a follow-up in a few weeks - I asked if they can send confirmation and the hospital doctor said "I can ask, but sadly doesn't mean it will necessarily happen".
    IMO NHS significantly underspends on management, admin, back-office, capital. That's where we need to put resources and efforts to drive efficiency.
    Process rather than people is the problem. As governments introduced the internal market, say, or GP commissioning, suddenly there needed to be more administrators and managers to run these things. Charging foreigners requires a bureaucracy to identify and charge foreigners. If the government decided it was concerned about discriminatory health outcomes against short/Black/red-headed people, there would need to be new systems created (and managed and run) to record height, race and hair colour.

    Reducing back-office staff just makes things worse if the systems do not change because it just shifts the administrative load onto frontline staff. Look at the complaints about ever-increasing paperwork from doctors, teachers, police, whoever.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    The fault sadly lies with the food industry. I recall in the 70's and 80's we had meat and vegetables. One thing I am struck by now is just how much packaging we use - my wife and I fill a wheelie bin every two weeks with cardboard, plastic and metal (tins) and was also tend to use the local butcher and greengrocer for a lot of our food. I strongly suspect the increase in obesity is correlated to the increase in convenient food (not necessarily ready meals) but other 'easy' options, such as pasta sauces in jars that contain far more sugar than you would ever put in your own sauce. That, and the poor little mites getting driven to everything, even when its within walking distance. Every kid in the 70's had a bike and cycled everywhere.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    It might be I live in posh Surrey but I don't see any fat kids when I walk the dog past the school when they are leaving for the day.
  • There seems to be a noticeable lack of 'no pigs in blankets for Christmas' stories this year.

    On the contrary we have this from Aldi:

    Aldi has unveiled its biggest Pigs in Blankets range to date. The delicious range is set to hog the limelight at this year’s dinner table as the supermarket has supersized its selection with a series of exciting new treats – all made from 100% British pork (except the vegan ones, of course!).

    Along with some returning favourites, including the Pigs in Blanket Pizza, shoppers can enjoy the new Loaded Pigs in Blankets, and even a giant Yorkshire pudding packed with a huge, swirled Pig in Blanket. Yum!

    The first must-try is Aldi’s NEW Specially Selected Pork and Truffle Flavour Pigs in Blankets (£2.99, 247g). These tasty beauties are crafted using truffle-infused sausage meat that’s packed with nutty and earthy notes – all wrapped in delicious smoked dry cure streaky bacon. Available in stores from 9th December.


    https://www.aldipresscentre.co.uk/christmas/the-big-day/go-pig-or-go-home-aldi-unveils-biggest-range-of-pigs-in-blankets-yet/

    Interesting how the fake stories of shortages disappear when actual genuine problems arise, price rises for example.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    In my experience the NHS is difficult to get admitted to and hard to get discharged from.

    It's the sign of a bureaucratic system where the money doesn't follow the patient.

    We could sack 50% of non-medic staff at the NHS and the reason people would notice is because everything would improve.
    Totally disagree - see earlier post. The lack of good support staff doing admin is a major problem.
    Misdiagnosis, the admin generated is the problem. Admin staff invariably create busy work, get rid of them and the busy work also disappears and no one notices.
    The NHS does have to be actively managed - it'd be chaos if it wasn't - and it doesn't have a particularly high ratio of manager to medical staff. It's quite low if anything. There's bound to be scope for efficiencies in such a huge organization but it's something of a myth that it's full of pen-pushers getting in the way of the doctors and nurses.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    It's not the free school meals that are the problem.

    Kids from the primary close to me all get driven to school, and I can see the parents queuing up at the McDonald's drive thru every evening. Need to crack out of this culture.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    That's a well known link - poverty to obesity. It doesn't mean the poverty is fictional.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,576
    edited November 2022

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    The fault sadly lies with the food industry. I recall in the 70's and 80's we had meat and vegetables. One thing I am struck by now is just how much packaging we use - my wife and I fill a wheelie bin every two weeks with cardboard, plastic and metal (tins) and was also tend to use the local butcher and greengrocer for a lot of our food. I strongly suspect the increase in obesity is correlated to the increase in convenient food (not necessarily ready meals) but other 'easy' options, such as pasta sauces in jars that contain far more sugar than you would ever put in your own sauce. That, and the poor little mites getting driven to everything, even when its within walking distance. Every kid in the 70's had a bike and cycled everywhere.
    A bike? Luxury. We walked. Part of the problem is children no longer walk to their nearest school but must be driven (car or bus) to their parents' second choice five miles away. Adult obesity will doubtless be rising because WFH means no walk to the station, and no walking around at work, at least for office workers who can WFH.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    kinabalu said:

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    That's a well known link - poverty to obesity. It doesn't mean the poverty is fictional.
    Plus you have to consider malnutrition, rather than just a lack of food.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    rkrkrk said:

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    My recent, personal experience of the NHS was fantastic. I went over on my foot, and it was swollen and very painful. After a few days, I rocked up without notice, at the walk-in (gingerly hobble in in my case).
    Was x-rayed, diagnosed with a severe sprain, got 10 minutes one-on-one advice on how to mitigate it and was out in a little over an hour. Modern, clean facility, lovely caring staff.
    That doesn't make it all good of course. But it isn't all bad either. And, of course, it was no charge.

    The quality of care in the NHS is generally very good. The standard of customer srrvice is awful.
    It is certainly cheap though.
    I'm not sure it's that cheap.

    Last time I checked the % of GDP we spend on health wasn't far off the European average.
    17th in GDP per capita according to this (2019 figures but I shouldn't think it's changed much - you can click on the 2019 column to sort).

    Broadly I agree with Cookie - clinical care generally great, everything around booking etc. bad. It's very noticeable that the service has responded to the financial squeeze by maintaining front-line staff and cutting back on support staff. I had an excellent, detailed, careful half-hour checkup for a minor bone injury yesterday and was asked for a follow-up in a few weeks - I asked if they can send confirmation and the hospital doctor said "I can ask, but sadly doesn't mean it will necessarily happen".
    IMO NHS significantly underspends on management, admin, back-office, capital. That's where we need to put resources and efforts to drive efficiency.
    Could be right. Unfortunately "xyz new doctors and zyx new nurses" is the only metric that cuts through.
  • kinabalu said:

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    That's a well known link - poverty to obesity. It doesn't mean the poverty is fictional.
    How much poverty is caused by mental attitude rather than lack of material means ?

    On this particular issue teaching the obese about proper nutrition would be better than subsidising their bad eating habits.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Supreme Court judgement seems pretty clear cut.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    The fault sadly lies with the food industry. I recall in the 70's and 80's we had meat and vegetables. One thing I am struck by now is just how much packaging we use - my wife and I fill a wheelie bin every two weeks with cardboard, plastic and metal (tins) and was also tend to use the local butcher and greengrocer for a lot of our food. I strongly suspect the increase in obesity is correlated to the increase in convenient food (not necessarily ready meals) but other 'easy' options, such as pasta sauces in jars that contain far more sugar than you would ever put in your own sauce. That, and the poor little mites getting driven to everything, even when its within walking distance. Every kid in the 70's had a bike and cycled everywhere.
    A bike? Luxury. We walked. Part of the problem is children no longer walk to their nearest school but must be driven (car or bus) to their parents' second choice five miles away. Adult obesity will doubtless be rising because WFH means no walk to the station, and no walking around at work, at least for office workers who can WFH.
    I think most school runs (by car) are less than 2 miles. The main reason is that parents are worried that their children won't be safe on their bikes/walking because of the number of cars and rubbish driving standards.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,361
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Lol. Clearly it never took off!

    How drab everything seems, looking back?
    You want drab? Check this out!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShPPjxlmp4U

    (I wish my satnav would give clear, precise instructions. It's really pissing me off at the moment by picking turnings more or less at random.)
    Dear God. Men. All men. Smoking.....
  • There seems to be a noticeable lack of 'no pigs in blankets for Christmas' stories this year.

    On the contrary we have this from Aldi:

    Aldi has unveiled its biggest Pigs in Blankets range to date. The delicious range is set to hog the limelight at this year’s dinner table as the supermarket has supersized its selection with a series of exciting new treats – all made from 100% British pork (except the vegan ones, of course!).

    Along with some returning favourites, including the Pigs in Blanket Pizza, shoppers can enjoy the new Loaded Pigs in Blankets, and even a giant Yorkshire pudding packed with a huge, swirled Pig in Blanket. Yum!

    The first must-try is Aldi’s NEW Specially Selected Pork and Truffle Flavour Pigs in Blankets (£2.99, 247g). These tasty beauties are crafted using truffle-infused sausage meat that’s packed with nutty and earthy notes – all wrapped in delicious smoked dry cure streaky bacon. Available in stores from 9th December.


    https://www.aldipresscentre.co.uk/christmas/the-big-day/go-pig-or-go-home-aldi-unveils-biggest-range-of-pigs-in-blankets-yet/

    Interesting how the fake stories of shortages disappear when actual genuine problems arise, price rises for example.

    So, every single claim in this HoL document was made up in order to annoy you

    https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/pig-farming-industry-in-england/#:~:text=In the autumn of 2021,2001 foot and mouth outbreak.

    but the Aldi press release you have thoughtfully copied for us is a sober and austere statement of the bare facts?
  • There seems to be a noticeable lack of 'no pigs in blankets for Christmas' stories this year.

    On the contrary we have this from Aldi:

    Aldi has unveiled its biggest Pigs in Blankets range to date. The delicious range is set to hog the limelight at this year’s dinner table as the supermarket has supersized its selection with a series of exciting new treats – all made from 100% British pork (except the vegan ones, of course!).

    Along with some returning favourites, including the Pigs in Blanket Pizza, shoppers can enjoy the new Loaded Pigs in Blankets, and even a giant Yorkshire pudding packed with a huge, swirled Pig in Blanket. Yum!

    The first must-try is Aldi’s NEW Specially Selected Pork and Truffle Flavour Pigs in Blankets (£2.99, 247g). These tasty beauties are crafted using truffle-infused sausage meat that’s packed with nutty and earthy notes – all wrapped in delicious smoked dry cure streaky bacon. Available in stores from 9th December.


    https://www.aldipresscentre.co.uk/christmas/the-big-day/go-pig-or-go-home-aldi-unveils-biggest-range-of-pigs-in-blankets-yet/

    Interesting how the fake stories of shortages disappear when actual genuine problems arise, price rises for example.

    Shortages are real. Some supermarkets are rationing eggs, for instance.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63708155
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    The fault sadly lies with the food industry. I recall in the 70's and 80's we had meat and vegetables. One thing I am struck by now is just how much packaging we use - my wife and I fill a wheelie bin every two weeks with cardboard, plastic and metal (tins) and was also tend to use the local butcher and greengrocer for a lot of our food. I strongly suspect the increase in obesity is correlated to the increase in convenient food (not necessarily ready meals) but other 'easy' options, such as pasta sauces in jars that contain far more sugar than you would ever put in your own sauce. That, and the poor little mites getting driven to everything, even when its within walking distance. Every kid in the 70's had a bike and cycled everywhere.
    A bike? Luxury. We walked. Part of the problem is children no longer walk to their nearest school but must be driven (car or bus) to their parents' second choice five miles away. Adult obesity will doubtless be rising because WFH means no walk to the station, and no walking around at work, at least for office workers who can WFH.
    I've even much better WFH tbh. Gregg's and coffee shop too far away.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    SC can rule on Sindyref.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    Eabhal said:

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    The fault sadly lies with the food industry. I recall in the 70's and 80's we had meat and vegetables. One thing I am struck by now is just how much packaging we use - my wife and I fill a wheelie bin every two weeks with cardboard, plastic and metal (tins) and was also tend to use the local butcher and greengrocer for a lot of our food. I strongly suspect the increase in obesity is correlated to the increase in convenient food (not necessarily ready meals) but other 'easy' options, such as pasta sauces in jars that contain far more sugar than you would ever put in your own sauce. That, and the poor little mites getting driven to everything, even when its within walking distance. Every kid in the 70's had a bike and cycled everywhere.
    A bike? Luxury. We walked. Part of the problem is children no longer walk to their nearest school but must be driven (car or bus) to their parents' second choice five miles away. Adult obesity will doubtless be rising because WFH means no walk to the station, and no walking around at work, at least for office workers who can WFH.
    I think most school runs (by car) are less than 2 miles. The main reason is that parents are worried that their children won't be safe on their bikes/walking because of the number of cars and rubbish driving standards.
    While this is the reasons given, its a classic example of a massively over exaggerated risk. Its not unlike the threat from pedophiles - we have created a view of the world where pedo's lurk round every corner and no child should be given freedom to walk to school just in case. And yet there are no more pedo's around now than there have ever been.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470
    edited November 2022

    There seems to be a noticeable lack of 'no pigs in blankets for Christmas' stories this year.

    On the contrary we have this from Aldi:

    Aldi has unveiled its biggest Pigs in Blankets range to date. The delicious range is set to hog the limelight at this year’s dinner table as the supermarket has supersized its selection with a series of exciting new treats – all made from 100% British pork (except the vegan ones, of course!).

    Along with some returning favourites, including the Pigs in Blanket Pizza, shoppers can enjoy the new Loaded Pigs in Blankets, and even a giant Yorkshire pudding packed with a huge, swirled Pig in Blanket. Yum!

    The first must-try is Aldi’s NEW Specially Selected Pork and Truffle Flavour Pigs in Blankets (£2.99, 247g). These tasty beauties are crafted using truffle-infused sausage meat that’s packed with nutty and earthy notes – all wrapped in delicious smoked dry cure streaky bacon. Available in stores from 9th December.


    https://www.aldipresscentre.co.uk/christmas/the-big-day/go-pig-or-go-home-aldi-unveils-biggest-range-of-pigs-in-blankets-yet/

    Interesting how the fake stories of shortages disappear when actual genuine problems arise, price rises for example.

    Shortages are real. Some supermarkets are rationing eggs, for instance.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63708155
    To three boxes of eggs.

    Given that a box can hold a dozen eggs and you can go to multiple supermarkets as many times as you want its not the equivalent of the 1940s.

    And I suspect anyone panic buying eggs will be throwing most of those eggs away a few weeks later.
  • kjh said:

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    It might be I live in posh Surrey but I don't see any fat kids when I walk the dog past the school when they are leaving for the day.
    Same here, although it is often a different story for their parents at the school gates. The story suggests childhood obesity might be a regional thing. I'd also wonder about the veracity of the standards used to judge whether children are obese. Have they been updated since the 1950s?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So far the vibes I'm getting "legally the referendum is not binding but because it would hurt the UK gov's feelings we are going to block it".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    There seems to be a noticeable lack of 'no pigs in blankets for Christmas' stories this year.

    On the contrary we have this from Aldi:

    Aldi has unveiled its biggest Pigs in Blankets range to date. The delicious range is set to hog the limelight at this year’s dinner table as the supermarket has supersized its selection with a series of exciting new treats – all made from 100% British pork (except the vegan ones, of course!).

    Along with some returning favourites, including the Pigs in Blanket Pizza, shoppers can enjoy the new Loaded Pigs in Blankets, and even a giant Yorkshire pudding packed with a huge, swirled Pig in Blanket. Yum!

    The first must-try is Aldi’s NEW Specially Selected Pork and Truffle Flavour Pigs in Blankets (£2.99, 247g). These tasty beauties are crafted using truffle-infused sausage meat that’s packed with nutty and earthy notes – all wrapped in delicious smoked dry cure streaky bacon. Available in stores from 9th December.


    https://www.aldipresscentre.co.uk/christmas/the-big-day/go-pig-or-go-home-aldi-unveils-biggest-range-of-pigs-in-blankets-yet/

    Interesting how the fake stories of shortages disappear when actual genuine problems arise, price rises for example.

    Shortages are real. Some supermarkets are rationing eggs, for instance.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63708155
    We've had these stories and issues for a while. The pandemic caused genuine problems, especially at the start, and then Brexit has been a challenge for companies re-organising their supplies. I wonder, however, if we are just noticing shortages more than we once did?

    Certainly my two stores in Warminster (Morrison's and Waitrose) do not seem particularly affected by any shortages. Plenty of eggs right now.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    Eabhal said:

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    The fault sadly lies with the food industry. I recall in the 70's and 80's we had meat and vegetables. One thing I am struck by now is just how much packaging we use - my wife and I fill a wheelie bin every two weeks with cardboard, plastic and metal (tins) and was also tend to use the local butcher and greengrocer for a lot of our food. I strongly suspect the increase in obesity is correlated to the increase in convenient food (not necessarily ready meals) but other 'easy' options, such as pasta sauces in jars that contain far more sugar than you would ever put in your own sauce. That, and the poor little mites getting driven to everything, even when its within walking distance. Every kid in the 70's had a bike and cycled everywhere.
    A bike? Luxury. We walked. Part of the problem is children no longer walk to their nearest school but must be driven (car or bus) to their parents' second choice five miles away. Adult obesity will doubtless be rising because WFH means no walk to the station, and no walking around at work, at least for office workers who can WFH.
    I've even much better WFH tbh. Gregg's and coffee shop too far away.
    For me, a combination of switching to cycle commute on the days in and always doing something on the days at home has made me healthier. During the first lockdown I realised my activity was dropping - and that I'd gained 90 minutes a day in saved commute - so started setting aside an hour at lunch to do something active. Haven't done anything strenuous more than before; it's not a run every day, but I go out an potter with some gardening and/or play ball with the pre-schoolkids etc. Garden looks better for it and so do I.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    SC President suggests indyref2 would have political and constitutional as well as legal effects
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    You opened with "politics won't affect your decision" mofo.
  • pillsbury said:

    There seems to be a noticeable lack of 'no pigs in blankets for Christmas' stories this year.

    On the contrary we have this from Aldi:

    Aldi has unveiled its biggest Pigs in Blankets range to date. The delicious range is set to hog the limelight at this year’s dinner table as the supermarket has supersized its selection with a series of exciting new treats – all made from 100% British pork (except the vegan ones, of course!).

    Along with some returning favourites, including the Pigs in Blanket Pizza, shoppers can enjoy the new Loaded Pigs in Blankets, and even a giant Yorkshire pudding packed with a huge, swirled Pig in Blanket. Yum!

    The first must-try is Aldi’s NEW Specially Selected Pork and Truffle Flavour Pigs in Blankets (£2.99, 247g). These tasty beauties are crafted using truffle-infused sausage meat that’s packed with nutty and earthy notes – all wrapped in delicious smoked dry cure streaky bacon. Available in stores from 9th December.


    https://www.aldipresscentre.co.uk/christmas/the-big-day/go-pig-or-go-home-aldi-unveils-biggest-range-of-pigs-in-blankets-yet/

    Interesting how the fake stories of shortages disappear when actual genuine problems arise, price rises for example.

    So, every single claim in this HoL document was made up in order to annoy you

    https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/pig-farming-industry-in-england/#:~:text=In the autumn of 2021,2001 foot and mouth outbreak.

    but the Aldi press release you have thoughtfully copied for us is a sober and austere statement of the bare facts?
    You can see the bare facts in any supermarket.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425
    "practical effects" - so going quite broad.
  • HYUFD said:

    SC President suggests indyref2 would have political and constitutional as well as legal effects

    He is correct
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Alistair said:

    So far the vibes I'm getting "legally the referendum is not binding but because it would hurt the UK gov's feelings we are going to block it".

    Surely they are just saying what is known - I.e a referendum would have effects beyond that of just advisory
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    SC says no right to self determination in international law unless former colonies or denied development rights or government rights for instance, citing court case in Quebec
  • There seems to be a noticeable lack of 'no pigs in blankets for Christmas' stories this year.

    On the contrary we have this from Aldi:

    Aldi has unveiled its biggest Pigs in Blankets range to date. The delicious range is set to hog the limelight at this year’s dinner table as the supermarket has supersized its selection with a series of exciting new treats – all made from 100% British pork (except the vegan ones, of course!).

    Along with some returning favourites, including the Pigs in Blanket Pizza, shoppers can enjoy the new Loaded Pigs in Blankets, and even a giant Yorkshire pudding packed with a huge, swirled Pig in Blanket. Yum!

    The first must-try is Aldi’s NEW Specially Selected Pork and Truffle Flavour Pigs in Blankets (£2.99, 247g). These tasty beauties are crafted using truffle-infused sausage meat that’s packed with nutty and earthy notes – all wrapped in delicious smoked dry cure streaky bacon. Available in stores from 9th December.


    https://www.aldipresscentre.co.uk/christmas/the-big-day/go-pig-or-go-home-aldi-unveils-biggest-range-of-pigs-in-blankets-yet/

    Interesting how the fake stories of shortages disappear when actual genuine problems arise, price rises for example.

    Shortages are real. Some supermarkets are rationing eggs, for instance.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63708155
    To three boxes of eggs.

    Given that a box can hold a dozen eggs and you can go to multiple supermarkets as many times as you want its not the equivalent of the 1940s.

    And I suspect anyone panic buying eggs will be throwing most of those eggs away a few weeks later.
    Yes, shortages can be exacerbated by panic buying. That is not to deny shortages did exist, and unlike, say, toilet paper, eggs have a limited storage life so no-one will be too silly. You might recall some mention of egg shortages on pb weeks ago, and it is unlikely we tipped the balance. Fwiw my local supermarket was out of eggs yesterday, not that I wanted any.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    Pro_Rata said:

    SC can rule on Sindyref.

    and says No
  • Bloody nose for Sturgeon
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    SC unanimously concludes Holyrood's indyref2 bill relates to reserved matters and if no Order in Council Holyrood has no power to hold a referendum on Scottish independence. Devastating result for Sturgeon, huge win for UK government and PM Sunak and indeed Starmer as likely next PM too
  • pillsbury said:

    There seems to be a noticeable lack of 'no pigs in blankets for Christmas' stories this year.

    On the contrary we have this from Aldi:

    Aldi has unveiled its biggest Pigs in Blankets range to date. The delicious range is set to hog the limelight at this year’s dinner table as the supermarket has supersized its selection with a series of exciting new treats – all made from 100% British pork (except the vegan ones, of course!).

    Along with some returning favourites, including the Pigs in Blanket Pizza, shoppers can enjoy the new Loaded Pigs in Blankets, and even a giant Yorkshire pudding packed with a huge, swirled Pig in Blanket. Yum!

    The first must-try is Aldi’s NEW Specially Selected Pork and Truffle Flavour Pigs in Blankets (£2.99, 247g). These tasty beauties are crafted using truffle-infused sausage meat that’s packed with nutty and earthy notes – all wrapped in delicious smoked dry cure streaky bacon. Available in stores from 9th December.


    https://www.aldipresscentre.co.uk/christmas/the-big-day/go-pig-or-go-home-aldi-unveils-biggest-range-of-pigs-in-blankets-yet/

    Interesting how the fake stories of shortages disappear when actual genuine problems arise, price rises for example.

    So, every single claim in this HoL document was made up in order to annoy you

    https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/pig-farming-industry-in-england/#:~:text=In the autumn of 2021,2001 foot and mouth outbreak.

    but the Aldi press release you have thoughtfully copied for us is a sober and austere statement of the bare facts?
    You can see the bare facts in any supermarket.
    In 2022, as evidence of the state of affairs in 2021?
  • That's them told.
  • I would call that a masterful judgment. Perfectly argued. It's one that will also have significant ramifications elsewhere.
  • "The Scottish Parliament does not have the power to legislate for a referendum on Scottish independence. The Court will now adjourn".
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Hadn’t quite realised the Scot gov submissions relating to Kosovo.. err
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,791

    Alistair said:

    So far the vibes I'm getting "legally the referendum is not binding but because it would hurt the UK gov's feelings we are going to block it".

    Surely they are just saying what is known - I.e a referendum would have effects beyond that of just advisory
    The SNP wouldn't be proposing this referendum if they weren't intending it to be politically binding even if it were technically advisory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited November 2022
    Clear ruling by UK SC as hardline in rejecting nationalists trying to hold an unauthorised referendum as Spain's SC was over the attempted Catalan referendum in 2017
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    kinabalu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    My recent, personal experience of the NHS was fantastic. I went over on my foot, and it was swollen and very painful. After a few days, I rocked up without notice, at the walk-in (gingerly hobble in in my case).
    Was x-rayed, diagnosed with a severe sprain, got 10 minutes one-on-one advice on how to mitigate it and was out in a little over an hour. Modern, clean facility, lovely caring staff.
    That doesn't make it all good of course. But it isn't all bad either. And, of course, it was no charge.

    The quality of care in the NHS is generally very good. The standard of customer srrvice is awful.
    It is certainly cheap though.
    I'm not sure it's that cheap.

    Last time I checked the % of GDP we spend on health wasn't far off the European average.
    17th in GDP per capita according to this (2019 figures but I shouldn't think it's changed much - you can click on the 2019 column to sort).

    Broadly I agree with Cookie - clinical care generally great, everything around booking etc. bad. It's very noticeable that the service has responded to the financial squeeze by maintaining front-line staff and cutting back on support staff. I had an excellent, detailed, careful half-hour checkup for a minor bone injury yesterday and was asked for a follow-up in a few weeks - I asked if they can send confirmation and the hospital doctor said "I can ask, but sadly doesn't mean it will necessarily happen".
    IMO NHS significantly underspends on management, admin, back-office, capital. That's where we need to put resources and efforts to drive efficiency.
    Could be right. Unfortunately "xyz new doctors and zyx new nurses" is the only metric that cuts through.
    A la 'More bobbies on the beat'
  • HYUFD said:

    SC unanimously concludes Holyrood's indyref2 bill relates to reserved matters and if no Order in Council Holyrood has no power to hold a referendum on Scottish independence. Devastating result for Sturgeon, huge win for UK government and PM Sunak and indeed Starmer as likely next PM too

    Excellent result for Sturgeon who now can blame Westminster for blocking the independence referendum that she almost certainly does not want anyway.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425

    Eabhal said:

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    The fault sadly lies with the food industry. I recall in the 70's and 80's we had meat and vegetables. One thing I am struck by now is just how much packaging we use - my wife and I fill a wheelie bin every two weeks with cardboard, plastic and metal (tins) and was also tend to use the local butcher and greengrocer for a lot of our food. I strongly suspect the increase in obesity is correlated to the increase in convenient food (not necessarily ready meals) but other 'easy' options, such as pasta sauces in jars that contain far more sugar than you would ever put in your own sauce. That, and the poor little mites getting driven to everything, even when its within walking distance. Every kid in the 70's had a bike and cycled everywhere.
    A bike? Luxury. We walked. Part of the problem is children no longer walk to their nearest school but must be driven (car or bus) to their parents' second choice five miles away. Adult obesity will doubtless be rising because WFH means no walk to the station, and no walking around at work, at least for office workers who can WFH.
    I think most school runs (by car) are less than 2 miles. The main reason is that parents are worried that their children won't be safe on their bikes/walking because of the number of cars and rubbish driving standards.
    While this is the reasons given, its a classic example of a massively over exaggerated risk. Its not unlike the threat from pedophiles - we have created a view of the world where pedo's lurk round every corner and no child should be given freedom to walk to school just in case. And yet there are no more pedo's around now than there have ever been.
    My instinct is to agree, but I've now witnessed over 100 cars drive through a green man pedestrian crossing outside the nursery down the street. Filmed them all and Police Scotland aren't interested in prosecuting.

    I'm a massive active travel advocate but even I wouldn't take kids on a cycle round Edinburgh due to the behaviour of drivers.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    kjh said:

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    It might be I live in posh Surrey but I don't see any fat kids when I walk the dog past the school when they are leaving for the day.
    My comprehensive had 1400 pupils, I can still remember the names of the fat kids even though it was 40 years ago as there were only 2, it was so rare to see a proper fat kid. There are loads now bursting out of their uniforms.
  • There seems to be a noticeable lack of 'no pigs in blankets for Christmas' stories this year.

    On the contrary we have this from Aldi:

    Aldi has unveiled its biggest Pigs in Blankets range to date. The delicious range is set to hog the limelight at this year’s dinner table as the supermarket has supersized its selection with a series of exciting new treats – all made from 100% British pork (except the vegan ones, of course!).

    Along with some returning favourites, including the Pigs in Blanket Pizza, shoppers can enjoy the new Loaded Pigs in Blankets, and even a giant Yorkshire pudding packed with a huge, swirled Pig in Blanket. Yum!

    The first must-try is Aldi’s NEW Specially Selected Pork and Truffle Flavour Pigs in Blankets (£2.99, 247g). These tasty beauties are crafted using truffle-infused sausage meat that’s packed with nutty and earthy notes – all wrapped in delicious smoked dry cure streaky bacon. Available in stores from 9th December.


    https://www.aldipresscentre.co.uk/christmas/the-big-day/go-pig-or-go-home-aldi-unveils-biggest-range-of-pigs-in-blankets-yet/

    Interesting how the fake stories of shortages disappear when actual genuine problems arise, price rises for example.

    Shortages are real. Some supermarkets are rationing eggs, for instance.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63708155
    We've had these stories and issues for a while. The pandemic caused genuine problems, especially at the start, and then Brexit has been a challenge for companies re-organising their supplies. I wonder, however, if we are just noticing shortages more than we once did?

    Certainly my two stores in Warminster (Morrison's and Waitrose) do not seem particularly affected by any shortages. Plenty of eggs right now.
    I'd say there were fewer eggs but certainly no shortages.
  • So, following the judgment today, will we see an end to the insistence that Scotland is a colony?

    I rather doubt it, but we can but hope.


    https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1595356415048253440
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Summary:

    We won't rule on the political ramifications of holding InfyRef
    ..blah...blah...blah...
    Due to the political ramifications of holding IndyRef it is related to reserved powers and so blocked.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    Salmond will now be waiting his next move, as Sturgeon almost certainly will accept the court ruling and rule out UDI expect Alba candidates in SNP seats at the next general election. Thus splitting the Nationalist vote
  • F1: in not surprising news, the Chinese GP is to be cancelled, again.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63713326
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:

    SC unanimously concludes Holyrood's indyref2 bill relates to reserved matters and if no Order in Council Holyrood has no power to hold a referendum on Scottish independence. Devastating result for Sturgeon, huge win for UK government and PM Sunak and indeed Starmer as likely next PM too

    Excellent result for Sturgeon who now can blame Westminster for blocking the independence referendum that she almost certainly does not want anyway.
    Not if Salmond now relaunches Alba, which is likely
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    Eabhal said:

    The poor cannot afford to eat update:

    It revealed that 31.3 per cent of 10 and 11-year-old children living in the most deprived areas of England were obese compared to 13.5 per cent of those living in the least deprived areas.

    https://www.thestar.co.uk/health/sheffield-childhood-obesity-one-in-four-youngsters-leaving-primary-school-now-obese-3925238

    I wonder how many obese kids are on free food schemes.

    When I was at school in the 70s and 80s there were 1 or 2 fat kids, there would now be 100-200 fat kids
    The fault sadly lies with the food industry. I recall in the 70's and 80's we had meat and vegetables. One thing I am struck by now is just how much packaging we use - my wife and I fill a wheelie bin every two weeks with cardboard, plastic and metal (tins) and was also tend to use the local butcher and greengrocer for a lot of our food. I strongly suspect the increase in obesity is correlated to the increase in convenient food (not necessarily ready meals) but other 'easy' options, such as pasta sauces in jars that contain far more sugar than you would ever put in your own sauce. That, and the poor little mites getting driven to everything, even when its within walking distance. Every kid in the 70's had a bike and cycled everywhere.
    A bike? Luxury. We walked. Part of the problem is children no longer walk to their nearest school but must be driven (car or bus) to their parents' second choice five miles away. Adult obesity will doubtless be rising because WFH means no walk to the station, and no walking around at work, at least for office workers who can WFH.
    I think most school runs (by car) are less than 2 miles. The main reason is that parents are worried that their children won't be safe on their bikes/walking because of the number of cars and rubbish driving standards.
    Yep. We have a 1.5 mile option, which is even walkable in reasonable(ish) time with kids, but ~1 mile of that is a single track, 60mph limit road with no pavements (and some drivers do indeed do ~60mph on it). There's a safer route with pavement, but at 2.5 miles it's not walkable in reasonable time and not child-on-bike friendly, one really nasty junction. (I do the junction on my commute and it's in my top two places to get taken out by a car. One cut across me, not seeing me - I guess - a few weeks back; I had to brake hard. The school journey requires the bike to cut across car traffic.)

    I do think we will try to do the walk 1.5 mile option in the summer, at least for afternoon pickup when it's light, less time pressure and (crucially) visibility much better. With an off-road cycle path, we'd be cycling it now with the kids.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    SC can rule on Sindyref.

    and says No
    Is this somewhat circular? Does the SC saying 'no' potentially turn the Scots into an oppressed people!
  • Looks like Sturgeon will have to try and turn the 2024 GE into a proxy indyref now, which might actually give Sunak a weapon he can use against Labour.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425
    HYUFD said:


    HYUFD said:

    SC unanimously concludes Holyrood's indyref2 bill relates to reserved matters and if no Order in Council Holyrood has no power to hold a referendum on Scottish independence. Devastating result for Sturgeon, huge win for UK government and PM Sunak and indeed Starmer as likely next PM too

    Excellent result for Sturgeon who now can blame Westminster for blocking the independence referendum that she almost certainly does not want anyway.
    Not if Salmond now relaunches Alba, which is likely
    Very funny
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    "The Scottish Parliament does not have the power to legislate for a referendum on Scottish independence. The Court will now adjourn".

    Sturgeon would have expected this imo. It was a 'win v flat' move by her.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    I'm not surprised by the judgement.

    I do think the UK gov's position of 'just ignore it and it'll go away' is not sustainable, but I'm not sure where we go from here, since I also don't think it is the job of courts to get creative around what the law is for political expediency.

    The Scottish Parliament has to respond, beyond simply lamenting the decision, but would they really go nuclear on treating a GE result as a pseudo-referendum?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    Looks like Sturgeon will have to try and turn the 2024 GE into a proxy indyref now, which might actually give Sunak a weapon he can use against Labour.

    Yes but as she ruled out UDI too that is irrelevant
This discussion has been closed.