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Could the Tories could be heading for a worse result than 1997? – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Type your comment
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694

    SandraMc said:

    I enjoyed Encanto. OTOH I found Frozen overrated. Tangled is a better film - but underrated.

    What about Bruno?
    He's now left Strictly.
  • DrkBDrkB Posts: 68
    Big article in mail
    "How have 12 years of Tory rule left us with ruinous taxes, a migrant crisis and rampant wokery?"

    The mail turns on the tories
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    DrkB said:

    Big article in mail
    "How have 12 years of Tory rule left us with ruinous taxes, a migrant crisis and rampant wokery?"

    The mail turns on the tories

    So they must have something going for them?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    IanB2 said:

    Type your comment

    Your comment

    (Although it should really have a full stop.)
  • IanB2 said:

    Type your comment

    ..




  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    Disney has gone downhill too.

    Just ordered Enchanto on Prime. 15 minutes in and my 3 year-old is bored shitless.

    Wants Frozen again.

    I am pretty stunned that you have a 3 year old and don’t have Disney+ to be honest.

    Encanto wasn’t popular with my lot either but they’ve done plenty recently that they loved. Luca for example, a love letter to the Italian rivière. I’ve enjoyed quite a bit of the Star Wars tv content they’ve done and bits and pieces of the Marvel stuff (though this has dropped in quality post covid). And The Dropout about Theranos is superb.
  • IanB2 said:

    Type your comment

    ..




    Is that a photo of the remaining twitter staff?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DrkB said:

    Big article in mail
    "How have 12 years of Tory rule left us with ruinous taxes, a migrant crisis and rampant wokery?"

    They keep winning elections?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    IanB2 said:

    Type your comment

    ..


    You deserve to be left with just your Bones for that one.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited November 2022
    DrkB said:

    Chris said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    You mean the government isn't offering young people the option of working 2 weeks a year and having 50 weeks holiday? Presumably they would be hoping for an income of at least £50k as well?
    Maybe but the govt offers people nothing but a technocratic programme of misery. The point is already half a million people have left the workforce since 2019 and this will be a problem for the govt
    Are they Americans with that couple of weeks?

    Has anyone told them that in this country they get more than a month off paid (5.6 weeks - 28 days) as of right if employees or contractors who look like employees, plus most get another fortnight of paid Bank Holidays.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    IanB2 said:

    Type your comment

    ..




    Is that a photo of the remaining twitter staff?
    What remaining staff?
  • Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k
  • moonshine said:

    Disney has gone downhill too.

    Just ordered Enchanto on Prime. 15 minutes in and my 3 year-old is bored shitless.

    Wants Frozen again.

    I am pretty stunned that you have a 3 year old and don’t have Disney+ to be honest.

    Encanto wasn’t popular with my lot either but they’ve done plenty recently that they loved. Luca for example, a love letter to the Italian rivière. I’ve enjoyed quite a bit of the Star Wars tv content they’ve done and bits and pieces of the Marvel stuff (though this has dropped in quality post covid). And The Dropout about Theranos is superb.
    Cost? We already have Prime, Britbox and Netlfix. Didn't want to pay for more.

    Sure that will change.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    How does that work when the EU has been trying to move Switzerland away from a Swiss style relationship with the EU, up to and including threatening to cut them off from cross-border electricity networks?
  • kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    Toblerone?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Lol at England in the Rugby.
  • Alistair said:

    Lol at England in the Rugby.

    Could be even worse next week against SA....
  • kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    Toblerone?
    A bit knobbly to swallow.

    But accepting that any real relationship involves swallowing things you don't like because of other things you do like is the beginning of maturity.
  • DrkBDrkB Posts: 68
    Interesting tweet here

    How was Russia able to launch its biggest aerial attack on Ukraine, if Moscow's stockpiles suppose to be dwindling? Janes: Russia likely stockpiled microchips and other technology necessary to build precision missiles before invading Ukraine in Feb, possibly starting years ago.

    9:19 AM · Nov 19, 2022·Twitter for Android

    https://twitter.com/maria_shagina/status/1593896829548204033?s=20&t=cgLVpX7sWUBrxi9O5yeOkA

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    DrkB said:

    Interesting tweet here

    How was Russia able to launch its biggest aerial attack on Ukraine, if Moscow's stockpiles suppose to be dwindling? Janes: Russia likely stockpiled microchips and other technology necessary to build precision missiles before invading Ukraine in Feb, possibly starting years ago.

    9:19 AM · Nov 19, 2022·Twitter for Android

    https://twitter.com/maria_shagina/status/1593896829548204033?s=20&t=cgLVpX7sWUBrxi9O5yeOkA

    Very interesting, but it doesn’t seem to have worked. Hopefully Russia collapses soon and takes it astroturfers with it.
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    stodge said:


    That's because plenty of public sector workers do fuck all in the office, but they have to be *seen* to be doing something in the office, so sullenly answer a phone call, or an email, as their manager overlooks their shoulder, but can easily do fuck all at home (with no-one to supervise) and get away with it.

    It is absolutely not the case in the private sector, where in professional services people can focus on documents, research, client meetings, 1:1s and virtual workshops without being dog-tired from commuting five days a week.

    You really are full of anger today - bookshops that don't sell the books you want and now public sector workers who, in your crass ignorance, don't work the way you want them to.

    It's quite clear you don't have the slightest idea how the public sector operates - just because the Daily Mail tells you something doesn't make it true.

    I've worked on both sides of the fence and, if I'm honest, there are incredibly hard working people in both the private and public sector and incredibly lazy people in both.

    The old mantra "Public Bad, Private Good" sounds like something from the dark days of the 1980s.

    1984 - perhaps you'll find that in your local bookshop along with Animal Farm.
    You're an autistic bore who posts tedious pompous diatribes that no-one reads, so forgive me if I don't give a shit what you think.
    I find you the most ridiculous poster on here but so what? I assume your Hooray Henry persona is something you've invented and you do it quite well so good luck to you.

    But If I was looking to be informed I'd read Stodge any day of the week
    Stodge is one of my favorite reads too, Rog, but having met him I can promise you he's plenty big enough to take care of himself!
    I'm sure you're right but when someone takes the trouble to write such informative posts and at such length as Stodge without a fraction of Casino's egocentric preening it's never a bad thing to let him know that at least some of us appreciate it
    I find @stodge posts very interesting and as you say informative and a valuable contributer to PB

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    DrkB said:

    Interesting tweet here

    How was Russia able to launch its biggest aerial attack on Ukraine, if Moscow's stockpiles suppose to be dwindling? Janes: Russia likely stockpiled microchips and other technology necessary to build precision missiles before invading Ukraine in Feb, possibly starting years ago.

    9:19 AM · Nov 19, 2022·Twitter for Android

    https://twitter.com/maria_shagina/status/1593896829548204033?s=20&t=cgLVpX7sWUBrxi9O5yeOkA

    Is Maria Shagina another one of those blonde Russian spys attached to 6x year old male MPs?

    Don't tell Boris or he'll be off again.

    Or am I jumping to conclusions, and nominative determinism has stopped working.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    algarkirk said:

    Good grief, what is the world coming to? I find myself agreeing with @Leon.

    Joe Wright's 2005 Pride & Prejudice is excellent and Knightly is a perfect Elizabeth Bennett.

    Just wondering how sales of Pride and Prejudice (book form) are going in Woke Bookstore?

    BTW can anyone remind me if Satanic Verses is Woke or Unwoke at the moment?
    In my various decades on earth, I’ve noticed that Jane Austen’s reputation has only increased.

    I confess it’s been a while since I picked one up.
    I try to read P and P about every year, Emma every two years or so.

    Emma sets a mystery; it is about nothing of consequence at all but manages to go as deep, in its own way, as Shakespeare and speak as universal a language. And as a literature of hope it is only surpassed by the very greatest - Dante, Julian of Norwich, Marriage of Figaro, Dubliners, among them.

  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,917
    edited November 2022
    I love rugby today, even if we get humped by the All Blacks

    I just saw that Wales lost to Georgia

    Even typing it made me smile. Again
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,827

    Disney has gone downhill too.

    Just ordered Enchanto on Prime. 15 minutes in and my 3 year-old is bored shitless.

    Wants Frozen again.

    How do you survive without Disney+? It's only £30-40 for a one year sub on some websites.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    On movie expenses: In this area, libraries will let you check out movies, as well as books. As far as I know, most of the classic movies are available through our King County library system: https://kcls.org/

    Do British libraries do anything similar?
  • MattW said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    How does that work when the EU has been trying to move Switzerland away from a Swiss style relationship with the EU, up to and including threatening to cut them off from cross-border electricity networks?
    I think it's just a euphemism for sector by sector bilateral deals.
  • kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    If Sunak/Hunt are serious about this then they must have spoken to Starmer.

    They know they don't have the votes alone.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    moonshine said:

    Disney has gone downhill too.

    Just ordered Enchanto on Prime. 15 minutes in and my 3 year-old is bored shitless.

    Wants Frozen again.

    I am pretty stunned that you have a 3 year old and don’t have Disney+ to be honest.

    Encanto wasn’t popular with my lot either but they’ve done plenty recently that they loved. Luca for example, a love letter to the Italian rivière. I’ve enjoyed quite a bit of the Star Wars tv content they’ve done and bits and pieces of the Marvel stuff (though this has dropped in quality post covid). And The Dropout about Theranos is superb.
    My 9yo did like Encanto, and is now obsessed with Turning Red.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    England are never going to score a try today...mistake after mistake after mistake.
  • kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    If Sunak/Hunt are serious about this then they must have spoken to Starmer.

    They know they don't have the votes alone.
    I hope they are serious and seek ways to improve trade with the EU

    It is the best way to grow the economy at present
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Respectfully disagree in 2 ways. Being a person in the UK with enough brains to critique a government and think about future options is an immense privilege. Hope is an essentially humanist and spiritual thing, not a task of government as such.

    The choices available within advanced capitalism mean that any bright individual can if they wish find a vocation in which work itself is its own profound reward, as long as you put meaning and worth
    ahead of self advancement and get rich quick.

    If you look to government to do any of this for you, apart from their job of preserving your freedom to seek it, you will be waiting a long time.

    God save us from governments who want to tell us the meaning of our lives.

  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    If Sunak/Hunt are serious about this then they must have spoken to Starmer.

    They know they don't have the votes alone.
    I hope they are serious and seek ways to improve trade with the EU

    It is the best way to grow the economy at present
    If they bring back freedom of movement, they will have lost my vote. And I am one of the 25% of voters currently backing them.
  • On movie expenses: In this area, libraries will let you check out movies, as well as books. As far as I know, most of the classic movies are available through our King County library system: https://kcls.org/

    Do British libraries do anything similar?

    You can also get movies via Seattle Public Libraries.

    But King County Libraries (virtually all of King Co outside Seattle) is MUCH superior. One of the best systems in USA.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    moonshine said:

    Disney has gone downhill too.

    Just ordered Enchanto on Prime. 15 minutes in and my 3 year-old is bored shitless.

    Wants Frozen again.

    I am pretty stunned that you have a 3 year old and don’t have Disney+ to be honest.

    Encanto wasn’t popular with my lot either but they’ve done plenty recently that they loved. Luca for example, a love letter to the Italian rivière. I’ve enjoyed quite a bit of the Star Wars tv content they’ve done and bits and pieces of the Marvel stuff (though this has dropped in quality post covid). And The Dropout about Theranos is superb.
    I enjoyed Encanto. I am, though, a bit older than 3.

    I think you can tell how some of the MCU stuff got disrupted by COVID, e.g. Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I don’t think we can yet call any of the series post-COVID because we’re still getting material that was partly made under COVID restrictions.

  • England are never going to score a try today...mistake after mistake after mistake.

    And again....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I love rugby today, even if we get humped by the All Blacks

    I just saw that Wales lost to Georgia

    Even typing it made me smile. Again

    Enjoy

    https://twitter.com/jaredwright17/status/1593985144456708098
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Encanto is marvelous.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    If Sunak/Hunt are serious about this then they must have spoken to Starmer.

    They know they don't have the votes alone.
    I hope they are serious and seek ways to improve trade with the EU

    It is the best way to grow the economy at present
    If they bring back freedom of movement, they will have lost my vote. And I am one of the 25% of voters currently backing them.
    The Swiss don’t like freedom of movement either, so I presume a Swiss-style approach, no, wouldn’t include FoM.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Opinium Day! yay.

    So we reckon the Tories are around 27 in the serious polls as average? So the Opinium with built in “grown ups in charge” swingback should come in at 28 or 29 share? More likely 30 than 26?

    Because the budget was so badly received by the media and Tory cheerleaders, I’ll go for 29.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    A reasonable request if they are being forced to work from home.

    But it should also be coupled with the end of the London allowance.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Alistair said:

    I love rugby today, even if we get humped by the All Blacks

    I just saw that Wales lost to Georgia

    Even typing it made me smile. Again

    Enjoy

    https://twitter.com/jaredwright17/status/1593985144456708098
    Was that weird shrieking noise I hear @TSE having a spontaneous orgasm?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    If Sunak/Hunt are serious about this then they must have spoken to Starmer.

    They know they don't have the votes alone.
    I hope they are serious and seek ways to improve trade with the EU

    It is the best way to grow the economy at present
    If they bring back freedom of movement, they will have lost my vote. And I am one of the 25% of voters currently backing them.
    The Swiss don’t like freedom of movement either, so I presume a Swiss-style approach, no, wouldn’t include FoM.
    The Swiss have freedom of movement with EU. A Swiss style approach without FOM is of course many Brexiteers' dream, but there is no evidence it will happen.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Roger said:

    stodge said:


    That's because plenty of public sector workers do fuck all in the office, but they have to be *seen* to be doing something in the office, so sullenly answer a phone call, or an email, as their manager overlooks their shoulder, but can easily do fuck all at home (with no-one to supervise) and get away with it.

    It is absolutely not the case in the private sector, where in professional services people can focus on documents, research, client meetings, 1:1s and virtual workshops without being dog-tired from commuting five days a week.

    You really are full of anger today - bookshops that don't sell the books you want and now public sector workers who, in your crass ignorance, don't work the way you want them to.

    It's quite clear you don't have the slightest idea how the public sector operates - just because the Daily Mail tells you something doesn't make it true.

    I've worked on both sides of the fence and, if I'm honest, there are incredibly hard working people in both the private and public sector and incredibly lazy people in both.

    The old mantra "Public Bad, Private Good" sounds like something from the dark days of the 1980s.

    1984 - perhaps you'll find that in your local bookshop along with Animal Farm.
    You're an autistic bore who posts tedious pompous diatribes that no-one reads, so forgive me if I don't give a shit what you think.
    I find you the most ridiculous poster on here but so what? I assume your Hooray Henry persona is something you've invented and you do it quite well so good luck to you.

    But If I was looking to be informed I'd read Stodge any day of the week
    You 'find' me the most ridiculous poster on here but you are the most ridiculous poster on here.

    I couldn't hope for better validation.
    Stodge posts some good stuff....Roger just posts entrails but then he is in advertisement so has lost the abilitiy to tell propaganda from truth
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    I've assumed the costs of heat and electricity leading to expectation of employer contribution to that in years to come, could lead to at least some rethinking of getting rid of big offices entirely that some might have initially thought about. Might be cheaper to just get people in this winter at least.
  • FFS.....every time England get an attack going they give away a penalty.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    algarkirk said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    If Sunak/Hunt are serious about this then they must have spoken to Starmer.

    They know they don't have the votes alone.
    I hope they are serious and seek ways to improve trade with the EU

    It is the best way to grow the economy at present
    If they bring back freedom of movement, they will have lost my vote. And I am one of the 25% of voters currently backing them.
    The Swiss don’t like freedom of movement either, so I presume a Swiss-style approach, no, wouldn’t include FoM.
    The Swiss have freedom of movement with EU. A Swiss style approach without FOM is of course many Brexiteers' dream, but there is no evidence it will happen.
    They don’t have full FoM, it’s not like between EU member states, because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Swiss_immigration_initiative and endless negotiations since.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    algarkirk said:

    WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    If Sunak/Hunt are serious about this then they must have spoken to Starmer.

    They know they don't have the votes alone.
    I hope they are serious and seek ways to improve trade with the EU

    It is the best way to grow the economy at present
    If they bring back freedom of movement, they will have lost my vote. And I am one of the 25% of voters currently backing them.
    The Swiss don’t like freedom of movement either, so I presume a Swiss-style approach, no, wouldn’t include FoM.
    The Swiss have freedom of movement with EU. A Swiss style approach without FOM is of course many Brexiteers' dream, but there is no evidence it will happen.
    If it doesn't have FOM, it wouldn't be a Swiss style approach!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    FFS.....every time England get an attack going they give away a penalty.

    Eddie's attacking system is totally busted.
  • WillG said:

    kle4 said:

    Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    The harder Brexiteers seem to be afraid of everything, they're like the DUP in that respect, so it's hard to say how explosive a suggestion it is. Though if memory serves the Swiss have had to swallow some things they did not like.
    If Sunak/Hunt are serious about this then they must have spoken to Starmer.

    They know they don't have the votes alone.
    I hope they are serious and seek ways to improve trade with the EU

    It is the best way to grow the economy at present
    If they bring back freedom of movement, they will have lost my vote. And I am one of the 25% of voters currently backing them.
    The obvious one is phytosanitary standards and agreeing equivalence.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    Alistair said:

    FFS.....every time England get an attack going they give away a penalty.

    Eddie's attacking system is totally busted.
    Eddie George had to go after the WC. England are more one dimensional than the England football team. Now also repeating the England football team mistake of the past trying to play Lampard / Gerrard, by trying to play Smith / Farrell together.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Roger said:

    stodge said:


    That's because plenty of public sector workers do fuck all in the office, but they have to be *seen* to be doing something in the office, so sullenly answer a phone call, or an email, as their manager overlooks their shoulder, but can easily do fuck all at home (with no-one to supervise) and get away with it.

    It is absolutely not the case in the private sector, where in professional services people can focus on documents, research, client meetings, 1:1s and virtual workshops without being dog-tired from commuting five days a week.

    You really are full of anger today - bookshops that don't sell the books you want and now public sector workers who, in your crass ignorance, don't work the way you want them to.

    It's quite clear you don't have the slightest idea how the public sector operates - just because the Daily Mail tells you something doesn't make it true.

    I've worked on both sides of the fence and, if I'm honest, there are incredibly hard working people in both the private and public sector and incredibly lazy people in both.

    The old mantra "Public Bad, Private Good" sounds like something from the dark days of the 1980s.

    1984 - perhaps you'll find that in your local bookshop along with Animal Farm.
    You're an autistic bore who posts tedious pompous diatribes that no-one reads, so forgive me if I don't give a shit what you think.
    I find you the most ridiculous poster on here but so what? I assume your Hooray Henry persona is something you've invented and you do it quite well so good luck to you.

    But If I was looking to be informed I'd read Stodge any day of the week
    You 'find' me the most ridiculous poster on here but you are the most ridiculous poster on here.

    I couldn't hope for better validation.
    Stodge posts some good stuff....Roger just posts entrails but then he is in advertisement so has lost the abilitiy to tell propaganda from truth
    Maybe now isn't the time to remind Roger that Stodge voted Leave, like me.

    Might confuse him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger said:

    stodge said:


    That's because plenty of public sector workers do fuck all in the office, but they have to be *seen* to be doing something in the office, so sullenly answer a phone call, or an email, as their manager overlooks their shoulder, but can easily do fuck all at home (with no-one to supervise) and get away with it.

    It is absolutely not the case in the private sector, where in professional services people can focus on documents, research, client meetings, 1:1s and virtual workshops without being dog-tired from commuting five days a week.

    You really are full of anger today - bookshops that don't sell the books you want and now public sector workers who, in your crass ignorance, don't work the way you want them to.

    It's quite clear you don't have the slightest idea how the public sector operates - just because the Daily Mail tells you something doesn't make it true.

    I've worked on both sides of the fence and, if I'm honest, there are incredibly hard working people in both the private and public sector and incredibly lazy people in both.

    The old mantra "Public Bad, Private Good" sounds like something from the dark days of the 1980s.

    1984 - perhaps you'll find that in your local bookshop along with Animal Farm.
    You're an autistic bore who posts tedious pompous diatribes that no-one reads, so forgive me if I don't give a shit what you think.
    I find you the most ridiculous poster on here but so what? I assume your Hooray Henry persona is something you've invented and you do it quite well so good luck to you.

    But If I was looking to be informed I'd read Stodge any day of the week
    You 'find' me the most ridiculous poster on here but you are the most ridiculous poster on here.

    I couldn't hope for better validation.
    Stodge posts some good stuff....Roger just posts entrails but then he is in advertisement so has lost the abilitiy to tell propaganda from truth
    Maybe now isn't the time to remind Roger that Stodge voted Leave, like me.

    Might confuse him.
    I have this vision of Rog hearing that news spilling a glass of red all over his salmon pink trousers...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    The amount of penalties England give away it reminds me of when they tried those games where a rugby league team played a union team, one game contested under each code.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    MattW said:

    DrkB said:

    Interesting tweet here

    How was Russia able to launch its biggest aerial attack on Ukraine, if Moscow's stockpiles suppose to be dwindling? Janes: Russia likely stockpiled microchips and other technology necessary to build precision missiles before invading Ukraine in Feb, possibly starting years ago.

    9:19 AM · Nov 19, 2022·Twitter for Android

    https://twitter.com/maria_shagina/status/1593896829548204033?s=20&t=cgLVpX7sWUBrxi9O5yeOkA

    Is Maria Shagina another one of those blonde Russian spys attached to 6x year old male MPs?
    I believe she is first cousin to Alotta Fagina.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    It’s not inevitable if productivity rises faster than ageing-related costs.
  • Politically, this is one to keep a close eye on - top billing at The Times online:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexiteer-fears-as-rishi-sunak-considers-swiss-style-ties-with-eu-nr0f7fw2k

    1) Would need Labour to support this in the Commons (which they almost certainly would), as ERG would never vote for it
    2) I'm not sure Sunak has the guts to take on the ERG (as evidenced by him reappointing Braverman as Home Secretary)

    I think a Swiss-style deal will happen, but not until Labour get back in.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited November 2022

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    It’s not inevitable if productivity rises faster than ageing-related costs.
    True. But is that realistic or likely?

    The trouble is there's a treble move to overcome - fewer workers, more retired and retired living longer.

    It'll be a matter of fact whether we can do it - but I suspect we won't!
  • I've basically given up at this point. My rent is going up 20% (east London box room), my employer is telling me I'll probably have my hours reduced, after rent/tax/bills/food/travel I'm left with ~£6 a day of disposable income. Assuming I have no social life and save all of that, I'd have enough for a deposit in about a century. I am completely demoralised and tempted to just give up, get signed off with depression and live off benefits.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,827
    The answer to that is very easy.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    I've basically given up at this point. My rent is going up 20% (east London box room), my employer is telling me I'll probably have my hours reduced, after rent/tax/bills/food/travel I'm left with ~£6 a day of disposable income. Assuming I have no social life and save all of that, I'd have enough for a deposit in about a century. I am completely demoralised and tempted to just give up, get signed off with depression and live off benefits.

    I am very sorry to hear this.
    Can I ask what you do?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    I've basically given up at this point. My rent is going up 20% (east London box room), my employer is telling me I'll probably have my hours reduced, after rent/tax/bills/food/travel I'm left with ~£6 a day of disposable income. Assuming I have no social life and save all of that, I'd have enough for a deposit in about a century. I am completely demoralised and tempted to just give up, get signed off with depression and live off benefits.

    I wrote this morning that even as a leftie I am very uncomfortable with the thumping tax burden being imposed on middle income people.

    Whilst, of course, many international companies, energy firms, and non doms continue to get away scot free.

    I hope you can find a solution. Some people might try to live abroad?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    I've basically given up at this point. My rent is going up 20% (east London box room), my employer is telling me I'll probably have my hours reduced, after rent/tax/bills/food/travel I'm left with ~£6 a day of disposable income. Assuming I have no social life and save all of that, I'd have enough for a deposit in about a century. I am completely demoralised and tempted to just give up, get signed off with depression and live off benefits.

    Not the first unfortunately. I wish someone had a decent answer, as the next two years are only going to find more people in your situation.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    It’s not inevitable if productivity rises faster than ageing-related costs.
    True. But is that realistic or likely?

    The trouble is there's a treble move to overcome - fewer workers, more retired and retired living longer.

    It'll be a matter of fact whether we can do it - but I suspect we won't!
    It’s realistic to the extent that, outside London, the UK is significantly behind the “productivity horizon” set by its peers.

    So there is catch up space, but it is unlikely to be achieved via austerity.
  • What a rugby game
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    Or we just let the elderly pass on naturally rather than try and keep them alive well past their sell by date. Honestly hands up who wants to live 10 more years when most of them are in adult diapers. Fuck that
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    Pagan2 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    Or we just let the elderly pass on naturally rather than try and keep them alive well past their sell by date. Honestly hands up who wants to live 10 more years when most of them are in adult diapers. Fuck that
    While I think killing old people is not a good election-winning manifesto, we could focus more effort on medical research to extend our healthy lives rather than simply extending our lifespans.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    I guess one way of preparing for your interview.....

    Here’s “intern” George Hotz reverse engineering Twitter’s undocumented API as a learning exercise before his first day:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=z6xslDMimME
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited November 2022
    Malaysian General Election 2022

    As it happens: Malaysia election results - Pakatan Harapan and Perikatan Nasional neck and neck
    The ruling Barisan Nasional, trailing in results, says it accepts and respects the people's decision.

    The results of Malaysia's 15th General Election on Saturday (Nov 19) are being announced, with Pakatan Harapan (PH) and Perikatan Nasional (PN) neck and neck in the race to form the government.

    With the ruling Barisan Nasional trailing in the polls, the coalition issued a statement saying it accepted the people's decision.

    There were several high-profile losses, including former prime minister Mahathir Mohamad who failed to defend his Langkawi seat. It is his first electoral defeat in 53 years.

    More than 900 candidates are contesting for a place in the country's 222-seat parliament. Voting for two seats – Padang Serai in Kedah and Baram in Sarawak – was postponed.

    Follow the latest developments here, in what is expected to be the most hotly contested election in Malaysia's history.

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/malaysia-election-ge15-polling-day-results-live-3080246

    SSI - NOTE - this link gives access to English-language blog AND television broadcast covering results.

    Reuters says hung Parliament highly likely

    ADDENDUM - Thanks again to the PBer (forget who unfortunately) who bird-dogged this election with informative post last night (for me anyway) after accompanying his wife as she cast her ballot at her polling place.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Pagan2 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    Or we just let the elderly pass on naturally rather than try and keep them alive well past their sell by date. Honestly hands up who wants to live 10 more years when most of them are in adult diapers. Fuck that
    While I think killing old people is not a good election-winning manifesto, we could focus more effort on medical research to extend our healthy lives rather than simply extending our lifespans.

    precisely....if someone has quality of life extend it by all means but my father is a case in point. He would have died 5 years ago but didnt due to medical intervention the last 4 years though he doesn't know what day it is, wets himself constantly and cant live reliably without being watched. No quality of life whatsoever
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,063
    edited November 2022
    Heathener said:

    I've basically given up at this point. My rent is going up 20% (east London box room), my employer is telling me I'll probably have my hours reduced, after rent/tax/bills/food/travel I'm left with ~£6 a day of disposable income. Assuming I have no social life and save all of that, I'd have enough for a deposit in about a century. I am completely demoralised and tempted to just give up, get signed off with depression and live off benefits.

    I wrote this morning that even as a leftie I am very uncomfortable with the thumping tax burden being imposed on middle income people.

    Whilst, of course, many international companies, energy firms, and non doms continue to get away scot free.

    I hope you can find a solution. Some people might try to live abroad?
    I really hope @Bournville finds a solution

    Re tax burden a poll gives support for the increase in tax for those on £125,000 by 50%/13%

    You are wrong about energy firms where the windfall tax, which has also been extended to electricity generators, has been extended by two years to 2028 raising 14 billion next year

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-hunt-autumn-statement-increases-windfall-tax-on-energy-firms_uk_63760d9de4b0283a8d1884c4
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,231
    algarkirk said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Respectfully disagree in 2 ways. Being a person in the UK with enough brains to critique a government and think about future options is an immense privilege. Hope is an essentially humanist and spiritual thing, not a task of government as such.

    The choices available within advanced capitalism mean that any bright individual can if they wish find a vocation in which work itself is its own profound reward, as long as you put meaning and worth
    ahead of self advancement and get rich quick.

    If you look to government to do any of this for you, apart from their job of preserving your freedom to seek it, you will be waiting a long time.

    God save us from governments who want to tell us the meaning of our lives.

    Great post, even though you’re feeding the troll.

    I *think* you’re to the right of me politically (apologies if I’ve got that wrong) but I entirely agree with the sentiment.

    I wonder if where we differ is their job of preserving your freedom to seek it . In my view current levels of inequality (in a broad sense, not just economically) mean only the more privileged kids actually have such freedom. So I think the government have a broader job to do than a conservative might.

    Regardless, your post has moved my own thinking on, so thank you.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    Pagan2 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    Or we just let the elderly pass on naturally rather than try and keep them alive well past their sell by date. Honestly hands up who wants to live 10 more years when most of them are in adult diapers. Fuck that
    Later retirement seems the logical consequence of people living longer AND staying reasonably healthy longer. I'd put my hand up for another 10 years even if in diapers, though I agree that if there's dementia as well then maybe not - sorry to hear about your dad's position.
  • Malaysia - Anwar Ibrahim says Pakatan Harapan can put together simple majority in partnership with other (regional?) parties.

    Saying this now at press conference, being questioned by journos
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    maxh said:

    algarkirk said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Respectfully disagree in 2 ways. Being a person in the UK with enough brains to critique a government and think about future options is an immense privilege. Hope is an essentially humanist and spiritual thing, not a task of government as such.

    The choices available within advanced capitalism mean that any bright individual can if they wish find a vocation in which work itself is its own profound reward, as long as you put meaning and worth
    ahead of self advancement and get rich quick.

    If you look to government to do any of this for you, apart from their job of preserving your freedom to seek it, you will be waiting a long time.

    God save us from governments who want to tell us the meaning of our lives.

    Great post, even though you’re feeding the troll.

    I *think* you’re to the right of me politically (apologies if I’ve got that wrong) but I entirely agree with the sentiment.

    I wonder if where we differ is their job of preserving your freedom to seek it . In my view current levels of inequality (in a broad sense, not just economically) mean only the more privileged kids actually have such freedom. So I think the government have a broader job to do than a conservative might.

    Regardless, your post has moved my own thinking on, so thank you.
    Sorry there are only so many meaningful jobs and a lot of what there are now require a degree which they didn't when I grew up. So you are condemning 50% of people who didn't go to university to the mind numbing tasks because if for whatever reason they didnt go onto university they now have no chance to move up.

    I didn't goto university even though I was offered a place for reasons I wont go into however despite that I still managed to better myself and raise myself to better careers as a software engineer....you are 18 now and leave school with no degree forget it you are already on life's scrapheap
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    "A matter of basic maths". Only ceteris paribus. State spending on unnecessary stuff could be cut: nuclear weapons, the airbase on Cyprus, everything to do with NATO, the monarchy, the royal family, etc., etc., all the duplication all over the place that functions to keep bureaucrats busy doing makework.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    With about 10 mins to go, NZ were 1.02, England 26 ish and the draw (from memory) about 250!
  • DJ41 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    "A matter of basic maths". Only ceteris paribus. State spending on unnecessary stuff could be cut: nuclear weapons, the airbase on Cyprus, everything to do with NATO, the monarchy, the royal family, etc., etc., all the duplication all over the place that functions to keep bureaucrats busy doing makework.
    Sounds like a Kremlin briefing and very obvious

    You need to do better to hoodwink PB
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Pagan2 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    Or we just let the elderly pass on naturally rather than try and keep them alive well past their sell by date. Honestly hands up who wants to live 10 more years when most of them are in adult diapers. Fuck that
    Later retirement seems the logical consequence of people living longer AND staying reasonably healthy longer. I'd put my hand up for another 10 years even if in diapers, though I agree that if there's dementia as well then maybe not - sorry to hear about your dad's position.
    Later retirement is an absolute and even though it impacts on me thats ok. We keep people alive now though that if they were animals in the same condition we would be prosecuted for cruelty. My father is a shell. He looks like my father but he isnt anymore and hasnt been for a long time but everytime he falls ill they keep on fixing him. So he spends his time shuffling through life with enough awareness to be embarrased he has wet himself and cant remember anyone or anything but no ability to change it
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    DJ41 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    "A matter of basic maths". Only ceteris paribus. State spending on unnecessary stuff could be cut: nuclear weapons, the airbase on Cyprus, everything to do with NATO, the monarchy, the royal family, etc., etc., all the duplication all over the place that functions to keep bureaucrats busy doing makework.
    You don't see any use for a nuclear deterrent, NATO or airbases given the events of the last year?

    I think most people would consider maintaining, or even increasing, our present defence spending quite prudent given world events.
  • DrkBDrkB Posts: 68
    maxh said:

    algarkirk said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Respectfully disagree in 2 ways. Being a person in the UK with enough brains to critique a government and think about future options is an immense privilege. Hope is an essentially humanist and spiritual thing, not a task of government as such.

    The choices available within advanced capitalism mean that any bright individual can if they wish find a vocation in which work itself is its own profound reward, as long as you put meaning and worth
    ahead of self advancement and get rich quick.

    If you look to government to do any of this for you, apart from their job of preserving your freedom to seek it, you will be waiting a long time.

    God save us from governments who want to tell us the meaning of our lives.

    Great post, even though you’re feeding the troll.

    I *think* you’re to the right of me politically (apologies if I’ve got that wrong) but I entirely agree with the sentiment.

    I wonder if where we differ is their job of preserving your freedom to seek it . In my view current levels of inequality (in a broad sense, not just economically) mean only the more privileged kids actually have such freedom. So I think the government have a broader job to do than a conservative might.

    Regardless, your post has moved my own thinking on, so thank you.
    Maybe they could find a vocation where work itself is its own profound reward but if they do so they will never be able to afford a house at least in the south. Such dreams are more for privileged kids with rich parents.
    But beyond this no govt can be totally technocratic...it must offer some sort of vision as thatcher did and blair did and even Johnson did. Sunak offers nothing but misery.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    DrkB said:

    Interesting tweet here

    How was Russia able to launch its biggest aerial attack on Ukraine, if Moscow's stockpiles suppose to be dwindling? Janes: Russia likely stockpiled microchips and other technology necessary to build precision missiles before invading Ukraine in Feb, possibly starting years ago.

    9:19 AM · Nov 19, 2022·Twitter for Android

    https://twitter.com/maria_shagina/status/1593896829548204033?s=20&t=cgLVpX7sWUBrxi9O5yeOkA

    Then why are they firing ancient Kh55 with dummy warheads?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    DJ41 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    "A matter of basic maths". Only ceteris paribus. State spending on unnecessary stuff could be cut: nuclear weapons, the airbase on Cyprus, everything to do with NATO, the monarchy, the royal family, etc., etc., all the duplication all over the place that functions to keep bureaucrats busy doing makework.
    Sounds like a Kremlin briefing and very obvious

    You need to do better to hoodwink PB
    Of course things are tough in the UK right now but they are a damn sight more favourable than life in Shitstreak-on-Don which is presumably where the poster calls in home.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    Or we just let the elderly pass on naturally rather than try and keep them alive well past their sell by date. Honestly hands up who wants to live 10 more years when most of them are in adult diapers. Fuck that
    Later retirement seems the logical consequence of people living longer AND staying reasonably healthy longer. I'd put my hand up for another 10 years even if in diapers, though I agree that if there's dementia as well then maybe not - sorry to hear about your dad's position.
    Later retirement is an absolute and even though it impacts on me thats ok. We keep people alive now though that if they were animals in the same condition we would be prosecuted for cruelty. My father is a shell. He looks like my father but he isnt anymore and hasnt been for a long time but everytime he falls ill they keep on fixing him. So he spends his time shuffling through life with enough awareness to be embarrased he has wet himself and cant remember anyone or anything but no ability to change it
    My son in laws mother suffered dementia for several years and recently died and now his father is in the same position

    It is extremely distressing for the loved ones and has cost over £200,000 so far to their estate
  • I've basically given up at this point. My rent is going up 20% (east London box room), my employer is telling me I'll probably have my hours reduced, after rent/tax/bills/food/travel I'm left with ~£6 a day of disposable income. Assuming I have no social life and save all of that, I'd have enough for a deposit in about a century. I am completely demoralised and tempted to just give up, get signed off with depression and live off benefits.

    Can you move out of London to Essex and commute into Liverpool Street just 2-3 days a week?

    Should save a fair bit in living costs.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    Or we just let the elderly pass on naturally rather than try and keep them alive well past their sell by date. Honestly hands up who wants to live 10 more years when most of them are in adult diapers. Fuck that
    Later retirement seems the logical consequence of people living longer AND staying reasonably healthy longer. I'd put my hand up for another 10 years even if in diapers, though I agree that if there's dementia as well then maybe not - sorry to hear about your dad's position.
    Later retirement is an absolute and even though it impacts on me thats ok. We keep people alive now though that if they were animals in the same condition we would be prosecuted for cruelty. My father is a shell. He looks like my father but he isnt anymore and hasnt been for a long time but everytime he falls ill they keep on fixing him. So he spends his time shuffling through life with enough awareness to be embarrased he has wet himself and cant remember anyone or anything but no ability to change it
    So sorry to hear that.
  • MikeL said:

    With about 10 mins to go, NZ were 1.02, England 26 ish and the draw (from memory) about 250!

    It's a warning never to let a silly position run out the clock in sport.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    DrkB said:

    Interesting tweet here

    How was Russia able to launch its biggest aerial attack on Ukraine, if Moscow's stockpiles suppose to be dwindling? Janes: Russia likely stockpiled microchips and other technology necessary to build precision missiles before invading Ukraine in Feb, possibly starting years ago.

    9:19 AM · Nov 19, 2022·Twitter for Android

    https://twitter.com/maria_shagina/status/1593896829548204033?s=20&t=cgLVpX7sWUBrxi9O5yeOkA

    Then why are they firing ancient Kh55 with dummy warheads?
    Given all the apparently unanticipated losses they've suffered it is unfortuante they haven't completely run out and still retain the ability to wreak havoc, but it seems to be generally accepted no one has masses of ammo left.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    I've basically given up at this point. My rent is going up 20% (east London box room), my employer is telling me I'll probably have my hours reduced, after rent/tax/bills/food/travel I'm left with ~£6 a day of disposable income. Assuming I have no social life and save all of that, I'd have enough for a deposit in about a century. I am completely demoralised and tempted to just give up, get signed off with depression and live off benefits.

    The poverty trap is alive and kicking. It never went away.

    I wouldn't rely on the British benefit system lasting for long after the son-of-Lehmans crash when it comes.

    Britain will be hit especially hard because economically it's essentially Singapore surrounded by Greece.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    DJ41 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    "A matter of basic maths". Only ceteris paribus. State spending on unnecessary stuff could be cut: nuclear weapons, the airbase on Cyprus, everything to do with NATO, the monarchy, the royal family, etc., etc., all the duplication all over the place that functions to keep bureaucrats busy doing makework.
    I cannot imagine why people might think NATO spending is not unnecessary. Any ideas?
  • I would have kicked it out
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,827
    edited November 2022

    I've basically given up at this point. My rent is going up 20% (east London box room), my employer is telling me I'll probably have my hours reduced, after rent/tax/bills/food/travel I'm left with ~£6 a day of disposable income. Assuming I have no social life and save all of that, I'd have enough for a deposit in about a century. I am completely demoralised and tempted to just give up, get signed off with depression and live off benefits.

    I'm very sorry to hear this, I hope I'm not prying by asking what it is you do? Pb is probably one of the few places where there's people with experience across a very wide range of career paths that may have advice to help you increase your income.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    I've basically given up at this point. My rent is going up 20% (east London box room), my employer is telling me I'll probably have my hours reduced, after rent/tax/bills/food/travel I'm left with ~£6 a day of disposable income. Assuming I have no social life and save all of that, I'd have enough for a deposit in about a century. I am completely demoralised and tempted to just give up, get signed off with depression and live off benefits.

    Really sorry to hear that. Is there any chance of using the reduced hours for a second part-time job for a bit?
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    kle4 said:

    DJ41 said:

    MikeL said:

    DrkB said:

    Listening in to a couple of young people in early 20s today.
    Complained of being trapped in the matrix and that you work 40 odd years with only a couple weeks holiday a year. One was looking to get into share trading, another crypto
    But this goes to a wider point. The conservatives offer no hope to young people. This is a technocratic govt imposed on the population similar to Draghis in Italy which has no vision and offers no hope.

    Surely the big picture is we have a massively ageing population with fewer working people to support more retired people.

    And those retired people have an ever increasing need for health services and care.

    So it is a matter of basic maths that those working are going to have to pay more tax to fund those services.

    It doesn't matter if you are right wing or left wing or what your political views - what has to happen is an inevitability - which is why Con and Lab are in agreement (bar tinkering at the edges).

    This would have happened irrespective of Covid and Ukraine - but they've just speeded up the process a bit. The borrowing they've caused is one-off but it's increased the stock of debt and this has increased ongoing interest payments.

    If people want "hope" that's fine but anyone pretending the above is not inevitable is delusional.
    "A matter of basic maths". Only ceteris paribus. State spending on unnecessary stuff could be cut: nuclear weapons, the airbase on Cyprus, everything to do with NATO, the monarchy, the royal family, etc., etc., all the duplication all over the place that functions to keep bureaucrats busy doing makework.
    I cannot imagine why people might think NATO spending is not unnecessary. Any ideas?
    Idiocy? Moving from not being able to spell "Donetsk" to being absolutely certain five minutes later - after watching something on the BBC or hearing it on Sh*tter - that Russian forces doing something about the Azov Regiment is the first step towards the Red Army marching up the Mall?
This discussion has been closed.