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Trump back up to a 36% betting chance for the GOP 2024 nomination – politicalbetting.com

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,112
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,317

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have we covered this, worth 2 minutes of your life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63655870


    And so it begins …
    The interesting thing about that is the Qataris not appearing to think that this would look bad in any way. Surely, these guys must think, all states operate like this?
    Tbh. I think it’s FIFA we should be focusing on, rather than Qatar.
    I was surprised by what Blatter said recently. That the reason it went to Qatar was down to the UEFA votes when he thought the USA was the best option.
    If Blatter said today was Wednesday I wouldn’t believe him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    Scott_xP said:

    Sky have the leaked budget details if anyone is interested

    Given how much the floated there could be absolutely anything in there. Any surprises?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,689
    Scott_xP said:

    It's odd, and I only realised when I was with a friend who is a brilliant pianist. She, likewise, cannot read sheet music whilst playing; she has to study the music beforehand and memorise it. Which in itself is quite a feat.

    That is fascinating. I can't imagine learning to play without sight reading.

    I wonder if it is in any way related to the phenomenon Richard Feynman noticed.

    Some people can count and read at the same time, but not speak. Some people can count and speak, but not read.

    He reckoned some people when they count hear the numbers, some people see them, so whichever method they are doing they can do the other, but they can't do the same thing twice at the same time.
    She says the notes jump around on the stave when she looks at them, which is not ideal. If she takes her time, she can read it. She's very intelligent, but is bad at maths - I think the same thing happens with fractions as well. But she can read text perfectly well.

    In the useless skills department, I can read a book that is upside down as quickly as I can read one that is the right way up.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,112

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have we covered this, worth 2 minutes of your life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63655870


    And so it begins …
    The interesting thing about that is the Qataris not appearing to think that this would look bad in any way. Surely, these guys must think, all states operate like this?
    Tbh. I think it’s FIFA we should be focusing on, rather than Qatar.
    I couldn't actually get thelink to work. Was it Fifa stopping the filming?
    It wouldn't be desperately surprising. If fifa was a state it would be one of the grottier ones. Probably one of the ones siding with Russia.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,492
    kyf_100 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The police were arresting people for being more than five miles from their home. You want to make their job easier?
    Incorrectly, as it turned out. There was never any law that was broken by being 5 miles from home.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have we covered this, worth 2 minutes of your life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63655870


    And so it begins …
    The interesting thing about that is the Qataris not appearing to think that this would look bad in any way. Surely, these guys must think, all states operate like this?
    Tbh. I think it’s FIFA we should be focusing on, rather than Qatar.
    I was surprised by what Blatter said recently. That the reason it went to Qatar was down to the UEFA votes when he thought the USA was the best option.
    If Blatter said today was Wednesday I wouldn’t believe him.
    Comes to something when massaive bribery would be the only way the decision would make any logical sense, given the place is no large enough to leave a footballing legacy of any size, and its too damn hot to play football there in the summer when it was supposed to be held (even if stadiums are super cooled).

    If people weren't bribed the decision is totally inexplicable.
  • HYUFD said:

    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:

    London
    Lab 55%
    Con 17%
    LD 11%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 7%

    Rest of South
    Lab 40%
    Con 33%
    LD 15%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 5%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 51%
    Con 25%
    Ref 7%
    LD 7%
    Grn 4%
    PC 3%

    North
    Lab 61%
    Con 20%
    Ref 5%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%

    Scotland
    SNP 44%
    Lab 27%
    Con 16%
    LD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1708; Fieldwork: 9th - 10th November 2022)

    Horrible for the Tories. Rishi not cutting through.
    Still doing better than Truss, even if still clearly behind where Boris was when Tory MPs forced him out in July
    Obviously, since it takes about a fortnight for events to have an impact on public opinion. Johnson was a loser for the Tories - well, he is a loser - so they did the right thing for the party and the country in dumping him.
    For the country maybe for the party probably not given current polls for the Tories still worse than when Boris left
    Not quite the right comparison, though.

    A better (but impossible) one would be Sunak now vs. how Johnson would have been doing now.

    We can't tell, but Johnson now would probably be doing worse than Johnson then. Partly because the economy would still be in a bad way and partly because Johnson still hanging on would have been really really undignified.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,112

    Scott_xP said:

    It's odd, and I only realised when I was with a friend who is a brilliant pianist. She, likewise, cannot read sheet music whilst playing; she has to study the music beforehand and memorise it. Which in itself is quite a feat.

    That is fascinating. I can't imagine learning to play without sight reading.

    I wonder if it is in any way related to the phenomenon Richard Feynman noticed.

    Some people can count and read at the same time, but not speak. Some people can count and speak, but not read.

    He reckoned some people when they count hear the numbers, some people see them, so whichever method they are doing they can do the other, but they can't do the same thing twice at the same time.
    She says the notes jump around on the stave when she looks at them, which is not ideal. If she takes her time, she can read it. She's very intelligent, but is bad at maths - I think the same thing happens with fractions as well. But she can read text perfectly well.

    In the useless skills department, I can read a book that is upside down as quickly as I can read one that is the right way up.
    Sounds like dyslexia, or something similar.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,463
    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    Just checking - I know people never like to admit they're wrong, but is anyone still suggesting we should start World War Three because of the incident yesterday in Poland?

    Pretty sure anyone suggesting full blown war still qualified things with 'if' Russia was indeed responsible. So they probably wouldn't need to say they were wrong at all, unless they accepted even a Russian mistake would not be a casus belli for all out WW3.
    Presumably you missed comments like this one (in response to a suggestion that it may not have been an intentional Russian attack):
    "Bollocks to that. We should use it as a pretext to destroy every Russian plane, tank, barrel and soldier on Ukrainian sovereign territory and have done with this thing. "
    I grant that one is a tad unreasonable. But not many were that full throttle without any wiggle room.
    The PB Toy Soldiers are one of the worst elements of this site. You are too soft on them.

  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,382
    edited November 2022

    kyf_100 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The police were arresting people for being more than five miles from their home. You want to make their job easier?
    Incorrectly, as it turned out. There was never any law that was broken by being 5 miles from home.
    "If she was in Winchester, I would not be worried. It is the 5 miles of countryside that makes me fear for her."

    (Or words to that effect - I forget the precise quotation.)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,689
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's odd, and I only realised when I was with a friend who is a brilliant pianist. She, likewise, cannot read sheet music whilst playing; she has to study the music beforehand and memorise it. Which in itself is quite a feat.

    That is fascinating. I can't imagine learning to play without sight reading.

    I wonder if it is in any way related to the phenomenon Richard Feynman noticed.

    Some people can count and read at the same time, but not speak. Some people can count and speak, but not read.

    He reckoned some people when they count hear the numbers, some people see them, so whichever method they are doing they can do the other, but they can't do the same thing twice at the same time.
    She says the notes jump around on the stave when she looks at them, which is not ideal. If she takes her time, she can read it. She's very intelligent, but is bad at maths - I think the same thing happens with fractions as well. But she can read text perfectly well.

    In the useless skills department, I can read a book that is upside down as quickly as I can read one that is the right way up.
    Sounds like dyslexia, or something similar.
    That's my vague thinking. Yet she can read books well, and is very highly educated. It must be something to do with things being on different horizontal lines but needing to be read at the same time, unlike books in English, where you read the line, then move down to the next one. Perhaps.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    I am interested to see what happens with council tax. The government hasn't really had a clue what to do for ages, and has been reducing central government grants, so has done things like temporarily extend the upper limit before a referendum, or allowing a social care levy to be separately applied, but I'm still astonished more councils haven't gone bust already.

    BBC says there's been speculation the limit could go up to a 5% increase. From their perspective it should be an easy one to concede - it won't be mandatory on councils, they'll say, and it eases the pressure on central government to do anything around business rates or the like.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,164

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's odd, and I only realised when I was with a friend who is a brilliant pianist. She, likewise, cannot read sheet music whilst playing; she has to study the music beforehand and memorise it. Which in itself is quite a feat.

    That is fascinating. I can't imagine learning to play without sight reading.

    I wonder if it is in any way related to the phenomenon Richard Feynman noticed.

    Some people can count and read at the same time, but not speak. Some people can count and speak, but not read.

    He reckoned some people when they count hear the numbers, some people see them, so whichever method they are doing they can do the other, but they can't do the same thing twice at the same time.
    She says the notes jump around on the stave when she looks at them, which is not ideal. If she takes her time, she can read it. She's very intelligent, but is bad at maths - I think the same thing happens with fractions as well. But she can read text perfectly well.

    In the useless skills department, I can read a book that is upside down as quickly as I can read one that is the right way up.
    Sounds like dyslexia, or something similar.
    That's my vague thinking. Yet she can read books well, and is very highly educated. It must be something to do with things being on different horizontal lines but needing to be read at the same time, unlike books in English, where you read the line, then move down to the next one. Perhaps.
    might be worth trying the coloured filter trick
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have we covered this, worth 2 minutes of your life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63655870


    And so it begins …
    The interesting thing about that is the Qataris not appearing to think that this would look bad in any way. Surely, these guys must think, all states operate like this?
    Tbh. I think it’s FIFA we should be focusing on, rather than Qatar.
    I was surprised by what Blatter said recently. That the reason it went to Qatar was down to the UEFA votes when he thought the USA was the best option.
    If Blatter said today was Wednesday I wouldn’t believe him.
    Also, I doubt he'd tell you what day it was until you slipped him a few bob for 'advisory work' a la Platini.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,401
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
    I think it's extraordinary how quickly people have forgotten what a frightening, authoritarian police state the UK became during that time. How bad laws were made, how the police massively overreached, and how ordinary people colluded by tattling on their neighbours.

    A glimpse into just how quickly, given the right circumstances (or the right manipulation), we could all find ourselves living in a police state.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,214
    ...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,386
    Inflation

    Italy 12.8%
    Germany 11.6%
    UK 11.1%
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,463
    kyf_100 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
    I think it's extraordinary how quickly people have forgotten what a frightening, authoritarian police state the UK became during that time. How bad laws were made, how the police massively overreached, and how ordinary people colluded by tattling on their neighbours.




    A glimpse into just how quickly, given the right circumstances (or the right manipulation), we could all find ourselves living in a police state.

    Regrettably, I think there is some truth in that. The covid period exposed a scarily authoritarian tendency on people to control the lives of others.

    I remember a poll that emerged in the midst of it all which revealed a substantial proportion of people thought nightclubs should be closed forever.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,580
    Scott_xP said:

    Sky have the leaked budget details if anyone is interested

    Link?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    kyf_100 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
    I think it's extraordinary how quickly people have forgotten what a frightening, authoritarian police state the UK became during that time. How bad laws were made, how the police massively overreached, and how ordinary people colluded by tattling on their neighbours.

    A glimpse into just how quickly, given the right circumstances (or the right manipulation), we could all find ourselves living in a police state.
    I wouldn't go that far, but I do think people are oddly comfortable assuming the police operate appropriately, when given the nature of their power over us we need to be constantly on the watch for their mistakes, which sadly are far from uncommon.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,689
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's odd, and I only realised when I was with a friend who is a brilliant pianist. She, likewise, cannot read sheet music whilst playing; she has to study the music beforehand and memorise it. Which in itself is quite a feat.

    That is fascinating. I can't imagine learning to play without sight reading.

    I wonder if it is in any way related to the phenomenon Richard Feynman noticed.

    Some people can count and read at the same time, but not speak. Some people can count and speak, but not read.

    He reckoned some people when they count hear the numbers, some people see them, so whichever method they are doing they can do the other, but they can't do the same thing twice at the same time.
    She says the notes jump around on the stave when she looks at them, which is not ideal. If she takes her time, she can read it. She's very intelligent, but is bad at maths - I think the same thing happens with fractions as well. But she can read text perfectly well.

    In the useless skills department, I can read a book that is upside down as quickly as I can read one that is the right way up.
    Sounds like dyslexia, or something similar.
    That's my vague thinking. Yet she can read books well, and is very highly educated. It must be something to do with things being on different horizontal lines but needing to be read at the same time, unlike books in English, where you read the line, then move down to the next one. Perhaps.
    might be worth trying the coloured filter trick
    I've suggested that. Sadly, coloured filters will not help my singing. Ear protectors might help those around me when I do sing... ;)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,164

    Scott_xP said:

    Sky have the leaked budget details if anyone is interested

    Link?
    Autumn Statement: Key message we be about addressing inflation, which at a 41-year high. What to expect on tax rises and sending cuts in order to get national debt falling w/in 5 years: Expect CX to outline £54bn of tax rises/spending cuts in total. What will it look like? 🧵
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1592963710058123265
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,214
    Many months ago I suggested on here that the selected stadium in Liverpool for the UEFA bid might not be Anfield.
    To universal derision.
    Vindication is mine.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,076
    edited November 2022

    HYUFD said:

    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:

    London
    Lab 55%
    Con 17%
    LD 11%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 7%

    Rest of South
    Lab 40%
    Con 33%
    LD 15%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 5%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 51%
    Con 25%
    Ref 7%
    LD 7%
    Grn 4%
    PC 3%

    North
    Lab 61%
    Con 20%
    Ref 5%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%

    Scotland
    SNP 44%
    Lab 27%
    Con 16%
    LD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1708; Fieldwork: 9th - 10th November 2022)

    Horrible for the Tories. Rishi not cutting through.
    Still doing better than Truss, even if still clearly behind where Boris was when Tory MPs forced him out in July
    Obviously, since it takes about a fortnight for events to have an impact on public opinion. Johnson was a loser for the Tories - well, he is a loser - so they did the right thing for the party and the country in dumping him.
    For the country maybe for the party probably not given current polls for the Tories still worse than when Boris left
    Not quite the right comparison, though.

    A better (but impossible) one would be Sunak now vs. how Johnson would have been doing now.

    We can't tell, but Johnson now would probably be doing worse than Johnson then. Partly because the economy would still be in a bad way and partly because Johnson still hanging on would have been really really undignified.
    If Johnson was still PM and Sunak still Chancellor there would have been no Truss and Kwarteng mini budget disaster.

    Reform would also not be on 5 to 7%
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sky have the leaked budget details if anyone is interested

    Link?
    Autumn Statement: Key message we be about addressing inflation, which at a 41-year high. What to expect on tax rises and sending cuts in order to get national debt falling w/in 5 years: Expect CX to outline £54bn of tax rises/spending cuts in total. What will it look like? 🧵
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1592963710058123265

    SUPPORT: Sunak told me in Bali at #G20 wanted to be “compassionate and fair” in AS
    - Benefits expected to be uprated by inflation (govt would have saved £5bn if lifted in line with earnings)
    - Pensions expected be up uprated by inflation (honouring manifesto triple lock)


    Trying to cut off one line of attack at least.

    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    Just checking - I know people never like to admit they're wrong, but is anyone still suggesting we should start World War Three because of the incident yesterday in Poland?

    Pretty sure anyone suggesting full blown war still qualified things with 'if' Russia was indeed responsible. So they probably wouldn't need to say they were wrong at all, unless they accepted even a Russian mistake would not be a casus belli for all out WW3.
    Presumably you missed comments like this one (in response to a suggestion that it may not have been an intentional Russian attack):
    "Bollocks to that. We should use it as a pretext to destroy every Russian plane, tank, barrel and soldier on Ukrainian sovereign territory and have done with this thing. "
    I grant that one is a tad unreasonable. But not many were that full throttle without any wiggle room.
    The PB Toy Soldiers are one of the worst elements of this site. You are too soft on them.

    I'm just soft in general.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,317
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have we covered this, worth 2 minutes of your life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63655870


    And so it begins …
    The interesting thing about that is the Qataris not appearing to think that this would look bad in any way. Surely, these guys must think, all states operate like this?
    Tbh. I think it’s FIFA we should be focusing on, rather than Qatar.
    I couldn't actually get thelink to work. Was it Fifa stopping the filming?
    It wouldn't be desperately surprising. If fifa was a state it would be one of the grottier ones. Probably one of the ones siding with Russia.
    Qatari goons as far as one can make out.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,492
    Andy_JS said:

    Inflation

    Italy 12.8%
    Germany 11.6%
    UK 11.1%

    Brexit strikes again.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,164
    Autumn Statement: what to expect
    - Tax thresholds frozen to 27/8. 45p starts at £125k. Big energy windfall tax
    - Benefits + pensions lifted by inflation
    - Energy support cont. From Apr 23 typical HH bill capped at £3,000
    - £30bn spending cuts. Beyond 2024, cld rise by just 1% https://twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1592963710058123265
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,624
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    It is a beautiful song about a decent man with a dream that, for once, comes off.

    Is there not some debate about that?

    Does the guy actually do it, or just dream about it?
    I wondered that too. But I like to think he got his boat and his freedom.
    I think it’s much more critical of the Thatcherite mindset… without the “money in his kitty” there’s no dignity
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 874
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
    I always picture 'Dim' from A Clockwork Orange when thinking about this.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,363

    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    Just checking - I know people never like to admit they're wrong, but is anyone still suggesting we should start World War Three because of the incident yesterday in Poland?

    Pretty sure anyone suggesting full blown war still qualified things with 'if' Russia was indeed responsible. So they probably wouldn't need to say they were wrong at all, unless they accepted even a Russian mistake would not be a casus belli for all out WW3.
    Presumably you missed comments like this one (in response to a suggestion that it may not have been an intentional Russian attack):
    "Bollocks to that. We should use it as a pretext to destroy every Russian plane, tank, barrel and soldier on Ukrainian sovereign territory and have done with this thing. "
    I grant that one is a tad unreasonable. But not many were that full throttle without any wiggle room.
    The PB Toy Soldiers are one of the worst elements of this site. You are too soft on them.

    I am eagerly awaiting their call to bomb the shit out of Ukraine following their cowardly unprovoked attack on a NATO ally.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:

    London
    Lab 55%
    Con 17%
    LD 11%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 7%

    Rest of South
    Lab 40%
    Con 33%
    LD 15%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 5%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 51%
    Con 25%
    Ref 7%
    LD 7%
    Grn 4%
    PC 3%

    North
    Lab 61%
    Con 20%
    Ref 5%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%

    Scotland
    SNP 44%
    Lab 27%
    Con 16%
    LD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1708; Fieldwork: 9th - 10th November 2022)

    Horrible for the Tories. Rishi not cutting through.
    Still doing better than Truss, even if still clearly behind where Boris was when Tory MPs forced him out in July
    Obviously, since it takes about a fortnight for events to have an impact on public opinion. Johnson was a loser for the Tories - well, he is a loser - so they did the right thing for the party and the country in dumping him.
    For the country maybe for the party probably not given current polls for the Tories still worse than when Boris left
    Not quite the right comparison, though.

    A better (but impossible) one would be Sunak now vs. how Johnson would have been doing now.

    We can't tell, but Johnson now would probably be doing worse than Johnson then. Partly because the economy would still be in a bad way and partly because Johnson still hanging on would have been really really undignified.
    If Johnson was still PM and Sunak still Chancellor there would have been no Truss and Kwarteng mini budget disaster.

    Reform would also not be on 5 to 7%
    But there would have been 4 more months of relentless media battering over Pincher-Paterson-Party-gate.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,317
    edited November 2022
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have we covered this, worth 2 minutes of your life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63655870


    And so it begins …
    The interesting thing about that is the Qataris not appearing to think that this would look bad in any way. Surely, these guys must think, all states operate like this?
    Tbh. I think it’s FIFA we should be focusing on, rather than Qatar.
    I was surprised by what Blatter said recently. That the reason it went to Qatar was down to the UEFA votes when he thought the USA was the best option.
    If Blatter said today was Wednesday I wouldn’t believe him.
    Also, I doubt he'd tell you what day it was until you slipped him a few bob for 'advisory work' a la Platini.
    Platini saddens me because he was a genuinely brilliant footballer, but the rest of them have been lifelong seedy committee men.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,169
    Scott_xP said:

    It's odd, and I only realised when I was with a friend who is a brilliant pianist. She, likewise, cannot read sheet music whilst playing; she has to study the music beforehand and memorise it. Which in itself is quite a feat.

    That is fascinating. I can't imagine learning to play without sight reading.

    I wonder if it is in any way related to the phenomenon Richard Feynman noticed.

    Some people can count and read at the same time, but not speak. Some people can count and speak, but not read.

    He reckoned some people when they count hear the numbers, some people see them, so whichever method they are doing they can do the other, but they can't do the same thing twice at the same time.
    My wife learnt to play flute, fiddle and tin whistle by listening. Didn't learn how to read music until she started her music degree.

    Was a bit of a culture shock for her to play music with people in Britain who learnt by reading music first.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,164
    A spokesman for Ronald Lauder, longtime friend of Trump and donor to Trump, says the billionaire businessman has no plans to support Trump this time around.
    https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1592977087270645761
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,164

    My wife learnt to play flute, fiddle and tin whistle by listening. Didn't learn how to read music until she started her music degree.

    Was a bit of a culture shock for her to play music with people in Britain who learnt by reading music first.

    Phil Collins can't read music.

    But, he was a drummer...
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,317
    dixiedean said:

    Many months ago I suggested on here that the selected stadium in Liverpool for the UEFA bid might not be Anfield.
    To universal derision.
    Vindication is mine.

    Have Tranmere got the gig?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,689

    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    Just checking - I know people never like to admit they're wrong, but is anyone still suggesting we should start World War Three because of the incident yesterday in Poland?

    Pretty sure anyone suggesting full blown war still qualified things with 'if' Russia was indeed responsible. So they probably wouldn't need to say they were wrong at all, unless they accepted even a Russian mistake would not be a casus belli for all out WW3.
    Presumably you missed comments like this one (in response to a suggestion that it may not have been an intentional Russian attack):
    "Bollocks to that. We should use it as a pretext to destroy every Russian plane, tank, barrel and soldier on Ukrainian sovereign territory and have done with this thing. "
    I grant that one is a tad unreasonable. But not many were that full throttle without any wiggle room.
    The PB Toy Soldiers are one of the worst elements of this site. You are too soft on them.

    I am eagerly awaiting their call to bomb the shit out of Ukraine following their cowardly unprovoked attack on a NATO ally.
    Yes, comrade. I bet you are.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,580
    edited November 2022
    O/T but interesting:

    "...a 4.6bn-year-old rock that crashed on to a driveway in Gloucestershire last year has provided some of the most compelling evidence to date that water arrived on Earth from asteroids in the outer solar system."

    "Extracts from the Winchcombe meteorite also contain extraterrestrial amino acids – prebiotic molecules that are fundamental building blocks for the origin of life."

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/16/meteorite-that-landed-in-cotswolds-may-solve-mystery-of-earths-water
  • Scott_xP said:

    Autumn Statement: what to expect
    - Tax thresholds frozen to 27/8. 45p starts at £125k. Big energy windfall tax
    - Benefits + pensions lifted by inflation
    - Energy support cont. From Apr 23 typical HH bill capped at £3,000
    - £30bn spending cuts. Beyond 2024, cld rise by just 1% https://twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1592963710058123265

    So a social democrat budget then.

    Establishment capture of Rishi.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,363

    O/T but interesting:

    "...a 4.6bn-year-old rock that crashed on to a driveway in Gloucestershire last year has provided some of the most compelling evidence to date that water arrived on Earth from asteroids in the outer solar system."

    "Extracts from the Winchcombe meteorite also contain extraterrestrial amino acids – prebiotic molecules that are fundamental building blocks for the origin of life."

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/16/meteorite-that-landed-in-cotswolds-may-solve-mystery-of-earths-water

    Ugh. 'driveway'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have we covered this, worth 2 minutes of your life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63655870


    And so it begins …
    The interesting thing about that is the Qataris not appearing to think that this would look bad in any way. Surely, these guys must think, all states operate like this?
    Tbh. I think it’s FIFA we should be focusing on, rather than Qatar.
    I was surprised by what Blatter said recently. That the reason it went to Qatar was down to the UEFA votes when he thought the USA was the best option.
    If Blatter said today was Wednesday I wouldn’t believe him.
    Also, I doubt he'd tell you what day it was until you slipped him a few bob for 'advisory work' a la Platini.
    Platini saddens me because he was a genuinely brilliant footballer, but the rest of them have been lifelong seedy committee men.
    That almost makes it worse - they all chose to become corrupt, money grubbing officials, but he at least had other ways of being involved with football as a result of his playing days. He could have become a terrible manager or smug pundit, anything.
  • kyf_100 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
    I think it's extraordinary how quickly people have forgotten what a frightening, authoritarian police state the UK became during that time. How bad laws were made, how the police massively overreached, and how ordinary people colluded by tattling on their neighbours.

    A glimpse into just how quickly, given the right circumstances (or the right manipulation), we could all find ourselves living in a police state.
    Ridiculous paranoid bollocks.
  • dixiedean said:

    Many months ago I suggested on here that the selected stadium in Liverpool for the UEFA bid might not be Anfield.
    To universal derision.
    Vindication is mine.

    Have Tranmere got the gig?
    I remember Prenton Park in its heyday. The shelter at one end ('stand' would be too grand a word) was adorned with giant letters spelling out 'BBC" which, of course, stood for the Birkenhead Brewery Company.
  • Scott_xP said:

    My wife learnt to play flute, fiddle and tin whistle by listening. Didn't learn how to read music until she started her music degree.

    Was a bit of a culture shock for her to play music with people in Britain who learnt by reading music first.

    Phil Collins can't read music.

    But, he was a drummer...
    He didn't need to. He could feel it coming in the air.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,363

    Scott_xP said:

    Autumn Statement: what to expect
    - Tax thresholds frozen to 27/8. 45p starts at £125k. Big energy windfall tax
    - Benefits + pensions lifted by inflation
    - Energy support cont. From Apr 23 typical HH bill capped at £3,000
    - £30bn spending cuts. Beyond 2024, cld rise by just 1% https://twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1592963710058123265

    So a social democrat budget then.

    Establishment capture of Rishi.
    This is hardly news. He was 'captured by the establishment' circa the age of 12.
  • So, a screw of the workers yet again whilst those out of work are protected.

    Why aren't I surprised.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,689

    O/T but interesting:

    "...a 4.6bn-year-old rock that crashed on to a driveway in Gloucestershire last year has provided some of the most compelling evidence to date that water arrived on Earth from asteroids in the outer solar system."

    "Extracts from the Winchcombe meteorite also contain extraterrestrial amino acids – prebiotic molecules that are fundamental building blocks for the origin of life."

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/16/meteorite-that-landed-in-cotswolds-may-solve-mystery-of-earths-water

    I find it amazing that we're still unsure how water got to Earth. It's one of the questions the various asteroid missions are trying to solve. It'd be funny if a meteorite landing in Gloucestershire helped prove something that missions costing hundreds of millions did not.

    And that we may have had a molten rock atmosphere for a few years after the Theia impact. Possibly.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Inflation

    Italy 12.8%
    Germany 11.6%
    UK 11.1%

    UK RPI inflation is now 14.2%
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,317
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have we covered this, worth 2 minutes of your life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63655870


    And so it begins …
    The interesting thing about that is the Qataris not appearing to think that this would look bad in any way. Surely, these guys must think, all states operate like this?
    Tbh. I think it’s FIFA we should be focusing on, rather than Qatar.
    I was surprised by what Blatter said recently. That the reason it went to Qatar was down to the UEFA votes when he thought the USA was the best option.
    If Blatter said today was Wednesday I wouldn’t believe him.
    Also, I doubt he'd tell you what day it was until you slipped him a few bob for 'advisory work' a la Platini.
    Platini saddens me because he was a genuinely brilliant footballer, but the rest of them have been lifelong seedy committee men.
    That almost makes it worse - they all chose to become corrupt, money grubbing officials, but he at least had other ways of being involved with football as a result of his playing days. He could have become a terrible manager or smug pundit, anything.
    You coulda been someone. You coulda been Lawro!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,596
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sky have the leaked budget details if anyone is interested

    Link?
    Autumn Statement: Key message we be about addressing inflation, which at a 41-year high. What to expect on tax rises and sending cuts in order to get national debt falling w/in 5 years: Expect CX to outline £54bn of tax rises/spending cuts in total. What will it look like? 🧵
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1592963710058123265
    Surely a deliberate leak, so the market doesn’t have any surprises?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,492

    dixiedean said:

    Many months ago I suggested on here that the selected stadium in Liverpool for the UEFA bid might not be Anfield.
    To universal derision.
    Vindication is mine.

    Have Tranmere got the gig?
    I remember Prenton Park in its heyday. The shelter at one end ('stand' would be too grand a word) was adorned with giant letters spelling out 'BBC" which, of course, stood for the Birkenhead Brewery Company.
    One of my favourite away days. Play off semi 2nd leg in 1993. Lost 3-2 on the day, but won 5-4 on aggregate. At the end the Tranmere fans stormed onto the pitch, fan towards us in the away end and gave us a huge round of applause (reciprocated). Many fans swapped scarves etc. Had a great respect for Tranmere ever since (although it was soured by a floodlight failure one night at Swindon when Tranmere were leading. Game called off and Town won the rearranged fixture…).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,596
    edited November 2022

    So, a screw of the workers yet again whilst those out of work are protected.

    Why aren't I surprised.

    You’ve been voting for them all this time, and not noticed that you’re almost the youngest person in the lobby? Apart from young HY, obvs.
  • MH17 trial verdict in NL tomorrow
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have we covered this, worth 2 minutes of your life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-63655870


    And so it begins …
    The interesting thing about that is the Qataris not appearing to think that this would look bad in any way. Surely, these guys must think, all states operate like this?
    Tbh. I think it’s FIFA we should be focusing on, rather than Qatar.
    I was surprised by what Blatter said recently. That the reason it went to Qatar was down to the UEFA votes when he thought the USA was the best option.
    If Blatter said today was Wednesday I wouldn’t believe him.
    Also, I doubt he'd tell you what day it was until you slipped him a few bob for 'advisory work' a la Platini.
    Platini saddens me because he was a genuinely brilliant footballer, but the rest of them have been lifelong seedy committee men.
    That almost makes it worse - they all chose to become corrupt, money grubbing officials, but he at least had other ways of being involved with football as a result of his playing days. He could have become a terrible manager or smug pundit, anything.
    He could've been anything that he wanted to be
    But don't it make your heart glad
    That he decided, a fact he take pride in
    He became the best at being bad
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,596
    edited November 2022

    kyf_100 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
    I think it's extraordinary how quickly people have forgotten what a frightening, authoritarian police state the UK became during that time. How bad laws were made, how the police massively overreached, and how ordinary people colluded by tattling on their neighbours.

    A glimpse into just how quickly, given the right circumstances (or the right manipulation), we could all find ourselves living in a police state.
    Ridiculous paranoid bollocks.
    I’m not so sure; it was a window on human nature, if the circumstances allowed. WWII revealed a lot of dark stuff about human nature, too, mostly hushed up by the media and subsequent history, and of course the German occupiers of the Channel Islands got sent far more denunciations than they could handle.

    Hence in normal times it is important to remain ever-vigilant on threats to our liberties.
  • So, a screw of the workers yet again whilst those out of work are protected.

    Why aren't I surprised.

    The other day my father received a letter from the government telling him he's getting a £500 winter fuel allowance, because you know he really needs it.

    He's donating it to charity.

    Absolute fucking pissing money up the wall for those who don't need it.
  • Rachel Riley has been awarded £50,000 in damages after a political blogger accused her of bullying a teenage girl online.

    The co-presenter of Countdown sued Mike Sivier for libel after he described her as a “serial abuser” in an article he published on his website.

    The piece was published in 2019 and discussed a debate on Twitter about antisemitism in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party. It referenced tweets exchanged between Riley, whose mother is Jewish, and a user who identified as a 16-year-old girl called Rose.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/countdown-presenter-rachel-riley-wins-50-000-for-abuser-libel-vm6nb32px
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,345
    edited November 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Autumn Statement: what to expect
    - Tax thresholds frozen to 27/8. 45p starts at £125k. Big energy windfall tax
    - Benefits + pensions lifted by inflation
    - Energy support cont. From Apr 23 typical HH bill capped at £3,000
    - £30bn spending cuts. Beyond 2024, cld rise by just 1% https://twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1592963710058123265

    So a social democrat budget then.

    Establishment capture of Rishi.
    Good evening

    Rigby's speculation has been general knowledge and widely reported elsewhere for some days

    I prefer to wait and listen to the real thing tomorrow where there will be much more detail but also the OBR report

    I would be very surprised if the detail does not cause a major reevaluation for labour's plans
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,596

    O/T but interesting:

    "...a 4.6bn-year-old rock that crashed on to a driveway in Gloucestershire last year has provided some of the most compelling evidence to date that water arrived on Earth from asteroids in the outer solar system."

    "Extracts from the Winchcombe meteorite also contain extraterrestrial amino acids – prebiotic molecules that are fundamental building blocks for the origin of life."

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/16/meteorite-that-landed-in-cotswolds-may-solve-mystery-of-earths-water

    I find it amazing that we're still unsure how water got to Earth. It's one of the questions the various asteroid missions are trying to solve. It'd be funny if a meteorite landing in Gloucestershire helped prove something that missions costing hundreds of millions did not.

    And that we may have had a molten rock atmosphere for a few years after the Theia impact. Possibly.
    It’s not been a mystery down here today, I can assure you.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,025

    Andy_JS said:

    Inflation

    Italy 12.8%
    Germany 11.6%
    UK 11.1%

    Brexit strikes again.
    I would though be wary with some comparisons, do they calculate the same as we do, with house price in or out for example. And what measures are other countries taking to reduce their inflation rate? For example you do know UK inflation rate announced today would be 13.8 not 11.1 without government policy bucking the energy market? And that doesn’t come free, in fact it doesn’t come cheap. Bucking UK energy market till April - will be interesting how OBR cost it, but unlikely less than £50bn based on Truss GDP adverts for the full whack version.
  • So, a screw of the workers yet again whilst those out of work are protected.

    Why aren't I surprised.

    The other day my father received a letter from the government telling him he's getting a £500 winter fuel allowance, because you know he really needs it.

    He's donating it to charity.

    Absolute fucking pissing money up the wall for those who don't need it.
    My lay is because I anticipate all polling hell is going to be let loose on Rishi following this budget, and Tory MP mutterings will start again.

    Keir Starmer won't be next PM if he's defenestrated before the next election. And there are still potentially over 2 years to go.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,492

    Andy_JS said:

    Inflation

    Italy 12.8%
    Germany 11.6%
    UK 11.1%

    Brexit strikes again.
    I would though be wary with some comparisons, do they calculate the same as we do, with house price in or out for example. And what measures are other countries taking to reduce their inflation rate? For example you do know UK inflation rate announced today would be 13.8 not 11.1 without government policy bucking the energy market? And that doesn’t come free, in fact it doesn’t come cheap. Bucking UK energy market till April - will be interesting how OBR cost it, but unlikely less than £50bn based on Truss GDP adverts for the full whack version.
    A long winded answer to an obvious joke…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,788

    O/T but interesting:

    "...a 4.6bn-year-old rock that crashed on to a driveway in Gloucestershire last year has provided some of the most compelling evidence to date that water arrived on Earth from asteroids in the outer solar system."

    "Extracts from the Winchcombe meteorite also contain extraterrestrial amino acids – prebiotic molecules that are fundamental building blocks for the origin of life."

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/16/meteorite-that-landed-in-cotswolds-may-solve-mystery-of-earths-water

    I find it amazing that we're still unsure how water got to Earth. It's one of the questions the various asteroid missions are trying to solve. It'd be funny if a meteorite landing in Gloucestershire helped prove something that missions costing hundreds of millions did not.

    And that we may have had a molten rock atmosphere for a few years after the Theia impact. Possibly.
    The bit that i have always found perplexing is the sheer quantity of water on planet earth. It is incredible. Getting my head around the idea that this arrived by asteroid collusions is...difficult. There must have been millions of collusions to achieve this. Why not the other planets? There is some sign of some water having been on Mars but not really elsewhere that I am aware of.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,463
    dixiedean said:

    Many months ago I suggested on here that the selected stadium in Liverpool for the UEFA bid might not be Anfield.
    To universal derision.
    Vindication is mine.

    I remember that. You did. Fair play to you.

    Is there a document anywhere I can read? I have only seen the BBC story so far - it’s fairly thin.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,758

    It's odd, and I only realised when I was with a friend who is a brilliant pianist. She, likewise, cannot read sheet music whilst playing; she has to study the music beforehand and memorise it. Which in itself is quite a feat.

    I'm the reverse. I cannot play any instrument to even the slightest degree but can read music very well because my mother was a music teacher. She used to pay me to mark her homework while she watched Coronation Street or experimented with cutting the dog's hair to make it look like Gail Tilsley.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,788
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sky have the leaked budget details if anyone is interested

    Link?
    Autumn Statement: Key message we be about addressing inflation, which at a 41-year high. What to expect on tax rises and sending cuts in order to get national debt falling w/in 5 years: Expect CX to outline £54bn of tax rises/spending cuts in total. What will it look like? 🧵
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1592963710058123265
    Surely a deliberate leak, so the market doesn’t have any surprises?
    If you wanted to leak complicated and not particularly palatable commercial information out would you really choose Beth Rigby? Not sure I would.
  • novanova Posts: 472
    edited November 2022
    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:

    London
    Lab 55%
    Con 17%
    LD 11%
    Grn 8%
    Ref 7%

    Rest of South
    Lab 40%
    Con 33%
    LD 15%
    Grn 5%
    Ref 5%

    Midlands and Wales
    Lab 51%
    Con 25%
    Ref 7%
    LD 7%
    Grn 4%
    PC 3%

    North
    Lab 61%
    Con 20%
    Ref 5%
    LD 5%
    Grn 4%

    Scotland
    SNP 44%
    Lab 27%
    Con 16%
    LD 6%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%

    (YouGov / The Times; Sample Size: 1708; Fieldwork: 9th - 10th November 2022)

    Horrible for the Tories. Rishi not cutting through.
    Still doing better than Truss, even if still clearly behind where Boris was when Tory MPs forced him out in July
    Obviously, since it takes about a fortnight for events to have an impact on public opinion. Johnson was a loser for the Tories - well, he is a loser - so they did the right thing for the party and the country in dumping him.
    I wonder if that's true anymore.

    The Mini-budget started affecting polls pretty much straight away and it was around a week later that the polling was at it's worst - which is pretty quick, when you consider probably the biggest cut-through was a few days after the budget, when mortgage providers started pulling rates.

    When Sunak took over, the poll lead dropped within a couple of days, and within a week he seems to have reached the full impact.

    When Partygate broke it started a little slowly, but the first big news was the Allegra Stratton jokes, and the polls changed almost immediately.

    I suspect that the "two week rule" only really applies to developing stories, where they might blow over, but once an event hits, constant internet commentary and social media outrage means it's more of a one week rule, and in many case just one day.
  • So, a screw of the workers yet again whilst those out of work are protected.

    Why aren't I surprised.

    The other day my father received a letter from the government telling him he's getting a £500 winter fuel allowance, because you know he really needs it.

    He's donating it to charity.

    Absolute fucking pissing money up the wall for those who don't need it.
    My lay is because I anticipate all polling hell is going to be let loose on Rishi following this budget, and Tory MP mutterings will start again.

    Keir Starmer won't be next PM if he's defenestrated before the next election. And there are still potentially over 2 years to go.
    I spoke to a Tory MP* the other day, they kinda agree with your assessment, they reckon once Boris Johnson loses a recall election then the firewall against Rishi collapses.

    Right now the fear of Boris Johnson/Sir Graham Brady's revelation is keeping Sunak safe.

    *Not that one.
  • IanB2 said:

    So, a screw of the workers yet again whilst those out of work are protected.

    Why aren't I surprised.

    You’ve been voting for them all this time, and not noticed that you’re almost the youngest person in the lobby? Apart from young HY, obvs.
    I'm in my 40s mate.

    There is absolutely no reason for me to vote Tory next time.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,897
    kyf_100 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
    I think it's extraordinary how quickly people have forgotten what a frightening, authoritarian police state the UK became during that time. How bad laws were made, how the police massively overreached, and how ordinary people colluded by tattling on their neighbours.

    A glimpse into just how quickly, given the right circumstances (or the right manipulation), we could all find ourselves living in a police state.
    This is paranoid hyperbole imo.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,363

    Andy_JS said:

    Inflation

    Italy 12.8%
    Germany 11.6%
    UK 11.1%

    Brexit strikes again.
    I would though be wary with some comparisons, do they calculate the same as we do, with house price in or out for example. And what measures are other countries taking to reduce their inflation rate? For example you do know UK inflation rate announced today would be 13.8 not 11.1 without government policy bucking the energy market? And that doesn’t come free, in fact it doesn’t come cheap. Bucking UK energy market till April - will be interesting how OBR cost it, but unlikely less than £50bn based on Truss GDP adverts for the full whack version.
    I am convinced that the energy price should be capped handsomely for the first 'xx' used and go up in bands thereafter. This would encourage energy saving enormously, and reassure the poor, who are low users of energy. It is mad to subsidise heating peoples' pools etc. The whole thing is mad frankly, but that part of it is extra mad.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,490
    edited November 2022

    So, a screw of the workers yet again whilst those out of work are protected.

    Why aren't I surprised.

    The other day my father received a letter from the government telling him he's getting a £500 winter fuel allowance, because you know he really needs it.

    He's donating it to charity.

    Absolute fucking pissing money up the wall for those who don't need it.
    My lay is because I anticipate all polling hell is going to be let loose on Rishi following this budget, and Tory MP mutterings will start again.

    Keir Starmer won't be next PM if he's defenestrated before the next election. And there are still potentially over 2 years to go.
    I just don't see where the defenestration is coming from. Truss was ditched because polling collapses and, crucially, she'd done no work to prepare her MPs for either what she planned to do or the reaction to it. They mutinied as they knew the party was screwed and they hadn't signed on for that direction.

    Sunak came in and everyone knew there was going to be a reversal of Truss's policies. So while I am sure polling is going to go south again for Rishi, since even if people claim to think tax rises are necessary they don't mean it, the MPs knew what the plan was going to be.

    I mean, what alternative policy option would they go for if they ditch Sunak? Ain't no time for a halfway house, and who would propose that anyway?

    Truss screwed so badly she proved wrong those of us who figured they party could not possibly ditch her so soon. But twice?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,025

    Had some fun with Mrs Dyldo today

    I had three small packages for her. Two went through the letterbox but the third - a half length poster tube, pretty suspicious size and shape - wouldn't fit

    She wasn't in and her garden gate was locked. Looking for somewhere safe to leave it, I noticed a pair of wellies by the door, with one boot pushed into the other. I pulled them apart, put the tube between and put them back together

    I then wrote my 739 (the red card we leave when nobody's in); I ticked "in your safe place" and wrote:

    "Between your rubber wyllies boots"

    I hope she appreciated the effort!

    For some reason tales of your escapades remind me of Timothy Lea books.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,788

    Scott_xP said:

    It's odd, and I only realised when I was with a friend who is a brilliant pianist. She, likewise, cannot read sheet music whilst playing; she has to study the music beforehand and memorise it. Which in itself is quite a feat.

    That is fascinating. I can't imagine learning to play without sight reading.

    I wonder if it is in any way related to the phenomenon Richard Feynman noticed.

    Some people can count and read at the same time, but not speak. Some people can count and speak, but not read.

    He reckoned some people when they count hear the numbers, some people see them, so whichever method they are doing they can do the other, but they can't do the same thing twice at the same time.
    She says the notes jump around on the stave when she looks at them, which is not ideal. If she takes her time, she can read it. She's very intelligent, but is bad at maths - I think the same thing happens with fractions as well. But she can read text perfectly well.

    In the useless skills department, I can read a book that is upside down as quickly as I can read one that is the right way up.
    Saves time in the bath? Or possibly gives you a heads up at a review? Not hugely useful otherwise.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,689

    MH17 trial verdict in NL tomorrow

    When Ukraine shot down iberia Airlines Flight 1812 back in 2001, they admitted fault within a few months, and paid compensation (the behaviour of the S-200 missile in that case is interesting with respect to yesterday's events, as is the Russian reaction at the time.

    When the USS Vincennes shot down an airliner in 1988, the US admitted responsibility within days.

    When Iran shot down Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 in 2020, they admitted responsibility within three days.

    Yesterday, the allies admitted it was probably a Ukrainian-fired missile well within a day, once firmer information came along.

    And yet Russia continues to deny responsibility for MH17, and indeed tries to blame everyone else, using excuses that are only believed by tankies, fools or shills. The Soviets weren't very good after the Korean KAL007 shootdown, either.

    (This posy may age badly if the case does not go the way it seems likely to.)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,492
    DavidL said:

    O/T but interesting:

    "...a 4.6bn-year-old rock that crashed on to a driveway in Gloucestershire last year has provided some of the most compelling evidence to date that water arrived on Earth from asteroids in the outer solar system."

    "Extracts from the Winchcombe meteorite also contain extraterrestrial amino acids – prebiotic molecules that are fundamental building blocks for the origin of life."

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/16/meteorite-that-landed-in-cotswolds-may-solve-mystery-of-earths-water

    I find it amazing that we're still unsure how water got to Earth. It's one of the questions the various asteroid missions are trying to solve. It'd be funny if a meteorite landing in Gloucestershire helped prove something that missions costing hundreds of millions did not.

    And that we may have had a molten rock atmosphere for a few years after the Theia impact. Possibly.
    The bit that i have always found perplexing is the sheer quantity of water on planet earth. It is incredible. Getting my head around the idea that this arrived by asteroid collusions is...difficult. There must have been millions of collusions to achieve this. Why not the other planets? There is some sign of some water having been on Mars but not really elsewhere that I am aware of.
    There is a lot of hydrogen in the universe, and a fair bit of oxygen. The trouble with seeing where the water came from is that we see the solar system as it is now, with seemingly very little water. The early solar system was likely very different. The rocky planets are believed to have coalesced out of fragments that were originally distributed in rings around the orbits. You can envisage the nascent, but very warm planet being bombarded with icy meteorites over the ages, and eventually cooling enough to have the oceans that we have now.
    Mars, with its reduced gravity likely had plenty of water at one point but most has been lost to space. Venus is too warm. In essence we are in the Goldilocks zone for water worlds, although that’s a bit of a tautology.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,689
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's odd, and I only realised when I was with a friend who is a brilliant pianist. She, likewise, cannot read sheet music whilst playing; she has to study the music beforehand and memorise it. Which in itself is quite a feat.

    That is fascinating. I can't imagine learning to play without sight reading.

    I wonder if it is in any way related to the phenomenon Richard Feynman noticed.

    Some people can count and read at the same time, but not speak. Some people can count and speak, but not read.

    He reckoned some people when they count hear the numbers, some people see them, so whichever method they are doing they can do the other, but they can't do the same thing twice at the same time.
    She says the notes jump around on the stave when she looks at them, which is not ideal. If she takes her time, she can read it. She's very intelligent, but is bad at maths - I think the same thing happens with fractions as well. But she can read text perfectly well.

    In the useless skills department, I can read a book that is upside down as quickly as I can read one that is the right way up.
    Saves time in the bath? Or possibly gives you a heads up at a review? Not hugely useful otherwise.
    As I said, a useless skill. Although it does amuse opticians when I hold the board upside down to read it. As you indicate, it was useful on occasion to read notes of people sitting opposite me in meetings. But mostly useless.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,460

    Don't have time to go into why now but I've just laid Starmer as next PM at 1.5 for a modest stake.

    Explain more tomorrow.

    I'm intrigued. Not just why, but why now is the right time.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 787

    Rachel Riley has been awarded £50,000 in damages after a political blogger accused her of bullying a teenage girl online.

    The co-presenter of Countdown sued Mike Sivier for libel after he described her as a “serial abuser” in an article he published on his website.

    The piece was published in 2019 and discussed a debate on Twitter about antisemitism in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party. It referenced tweets exchanged between Riley, whose mother is Jewish, and a user who identified as a 16-year-old girl called Rose.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/countdown-presenter-rachel-riley-wins-50-000-for-abuser-libel-vm6nb32px

    I had a search on Twitter earlier to see how the left antisemites were taking it. As expected, total denial and several instances of repeating the libellous tweets.

    Rachel's chosen charity has found itself a free cash machine if she were to go after some of them too.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,463

    Scott_xP said:

    Autumn Statement: what to expect
    - Tax thresholds frozen to 27/8. 45p starts at £125k. Big energy windfall tax
    - Benefits + pensions lifted by inflation
    - Energy support cont. From Apr 23 typical HH bill capped at £3,000
    - £30bn spending cuts. Beyond 2024, cld rise by just 1% https://twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1592963710058123265

    So a social democrat budget then.

    Establishment capture of Rishi.
    Good evening

    Rigby's speculation has been general knowledge and widely reported elsewhere for some days

    I prefer to wait and listen to the real thing tomorrow where there will be much more detail but also the OBR report

    I would be very surprised if the detail does not cause a major reevaluation for labour's

    plans
    You’d be unwise to ignore Beth Rigorous.

  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,460
    NEW THREAD.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,758
    kinabalu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
    I think it's extraordinary how quickly people have forgotten what a frightening, authoritarian police state the UK became during that time. How bad laws were made, how the police massively overreached, and how ordinary people colluded by tattling on their neighbours.

    A glimpse into just how quickly, given the right circumstances (or the right manipulation), we could all find ourselves living in a police state.
    This is paranoid hyperbole imo.
    Any number of minor level functionaries of the state got intoxicated on a small whiff of arbitrary power in 2020. I was still traveling regularly to France in flagrant violation of the regulations and every trip had to be planned and executed as if I were smuggling Gordievsky out of the USSR. Collective insanity had gripped the British state and it lapsed into authoritarianism with remarkable speed and ease.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,463
    kle4 said:

    So, a screw of the workers yet again whilst those out of work are protected.

    Why aren't I surprised.

    The other day my father received a letter from the government telling him he's getting a £500 winter fuel allowance, because you know he really needs it.

    He's donating it to charity.

    Absolute fucking pissing money up the wall for those who don't need it.
    My lay is because I anticipate all polling hell is going to be let loose on Rishi following this budget, and Tory MP mutterings will start again.

    Keir Starmer won't be next PM if he's defenestrated before the next election. And there are still potentially over 2 years to go.
    I just don't see where the defenestration is coming from. Truss was ditched because polling collapses and, crucially, she'd done no work to prepare her MPs for either what she planned to do or the reaction to it. They mutinied as they knew the party was screwed and they hadn't signed on for that direction.

    Sunak came in and everyone knew there was going to be a reversal of Truss's policies. So while I am sure polling is going to go south again for Rishi, since even if people claim to think tax rises are necessary they don't mean it, the MPs knew what the plan was going to be.

    I mean, what alternative policy option would they go for if they ditch Sunak? Ain't no time for a halfway house, and who would propose that anyway?

    Truss screwed so badly she proved wrong those of us who figured they party could not possibly ditch her so soon. But twice?
    Truss will return.

    A titan of politics whose time will come.


    T

    R

    U

    S

    T


    I

    N



    T

    R

    U

    S

    S
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,401
    kinabalu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Is it the case that the issue is not the Card itself but the linked databases behind it?

    Yes - linking everything together and making it available to every “official” violates every data protection rule and best practise I can think of. It would break data protection *law* unless specifically

    A card with a number on it isn’t a particular problem.

    It is worth considering that it would also be a constitutional violation in Germany and several other European states.
    Let's not do it with a superlinked database that every tom dick & harry in officialdom can access without the requisite controls then.

    Let's see what the proposal is (if we get one).
    An issue is that nowadays it is increasingly easy (well, easier) to create superlinked databases. And that's another issue: just think what data Google or your local supermarket hold about you (if you have not been very careful).

    Edit: it is why I don't like some road-charging proposals. I really don't want the government to know where I've been all the time. This government may be fine with that info, but another in a few decades? Then again, ANPR tech can do a lot of that in the background. And the data implications of Oyster cards are also worrying if you are a Londoner.
    There was one of those cheap reality shows I saw a while back which followed a fraud team at London Underground. The data they have is scary

    I saw that. It was surprisingly brilliant.

    EDIT:
    But yes, I agree with @JosiasJessop . I used to be all in favour of road pricing: I can see very good transport planning arguments in favour of raising revenue that way rather than road tax and fuel tax. But covid changed my mind. I no longer trust government with that sort of data.
    How did the government abuse your Covid data?
    The government introduced restrictions capriciously which were enforced capriciously. (See Greater Manchestee Police tweeting triumphantly aboit closing down children's birthday parties etc.) Imagine what they could do empowered by movement data.
    I think it's extraordinary how quickly people have forgotten what a frightening, authoritarian police state the UK became during that time. How bad laws were made, how the police massively overreached, and how ordinary people colluded by tattling on their neighbours.

    A glimpse into just how quickly, given the right circumstances (or the right manipulation), we could all find ourselves living in a police state.
    This is paranoid hyperbole imo.
    The footage is all out there. The behaviour of the police during this time is on record. Breaking down doors where they suspected "illegal gatherings were taking place. Flying drones across the moors to detect people out on walks. The woman arrested with heavy hands, and charged, at the Sarah Everard vigil. All absolute disgraces that should never be allowed to happen, but actively egged on by members of the public who approved of their actions.

    Think we couldn't descend into a fascist, police state quite quickly, given the "right" reasons and enjoying popular public support? The evidence suggests it could all happen again, and very quickly. As others have pointed out, that is why constant vigilance is required and why any attempts to give the police more information that would enable them to gain greater control of ordinary people going about their daily lives should be resisted wherever possible.
  • NEW THREAD

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,025

    Andy_JS said:

    Inflation

    Italy 12.8%
    Germany 11.6%
    UK 11.1%

    Brexit strikes again.
    I would though be wary with some comparisons, do they calculate the same as we do, with house price in or out for example. And what measures are other countries taking to reduce their inflation rate? For example you do know UK inflation rate announced today would be 13.8 not 11.1 without government policy bucking the energy market? And that doesn’t come free, in fact it doesn’t come cheap. Bucking UK energy market till April - will be interesting how OBR cost it, but unlikely less than £50bn based on Truss GDP adverts for the full whack version.
    A long winded answer to an obvious joke…
    Inflations so bad I can't even pay attention. 🤭
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,517

    Scott_xP said:

    Autumn Statement: what to expect
    - Tax thresholds frozen to 27/8. 45p starts at £125k. Big energy windfall tax
    - Benefits + pensions lifted by inflation
    - Energy support cont. From Apr 23 typical HH bill capped at £3,000
    - £30bn spending cuts. Beyond 2024, cld rise by just 1% https://twitter.com/bethrigby/status/1592963710058123265

    So a social democrat budget then.

    Establishment capture of Rishi.
    Good evening

    Rigby's speculation has been general knowledge and widely reported elsewhere for some days

    I prefer to wait and listen to the real thing tomorrow where there will be much more detail but also the OBR report

    I would be very surprised if the detail does not cause a major reevaluation for labour's plans
    What a surprise, Big G offers no judgment apart from that the news will be bad for Labour.

    What a pathetic Tory stooge.
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