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Sorry Iain you’ve got this wrong – politicalbetting.com

2

Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,530

    glw said:

    Boris Johnson is literally worse than Hitler.

    Boris Johnson will address a cryptocurrency conference in Singapore next month as he forges a post-prime ministerial speaking career.

    Having failed to secure a second stint in Downing Street, Johnson will be the featured keynote speaker at the International Symposium on Blockchain Advancements on December 2. He remains the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip and the event will take place while parliament is sitting.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-to-speak-at-singapore-cryptocurrency-conference-w5kt7rn2g

    That should be good. It would be like asking a goldfish to talk about impressionism.
    He's only in it for the Monet.
    I asked the Princess Royal for her opinion. He knows nothing Cezanne.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,895

    glw said:

    Boris Johnson is literally worse than Hitler.

    Boris Johnson will address a cryptocurrency conference in Singapore next month as he forges a post-prime ministerial speaking career.

    Having failed to secure a second stint in Downing Street, Johnson will be the featured keynote speaker at the International Symposium on Blockchain Advancements on December 2. He remains the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip and the event will take place while parliament is sitting.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-to-speak-at-singapore-cryptocurrency-conference-w5kt7rn2g

    That should be good. It would be like asking a goldfish to talk about impressionism.
    He's only in it for the Monet.
    Very good.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hancock will want to cash in on his fame while he still has it, as he has made clear he has zero chance of returning to government now anyway. Sunak effectively blanked him when he greeted supporters.

    Included in the tasks will be eating various parts of animal anatomy, one could say he has had plenty of practice on that already in the office of the Health Secretary during the lockdown with Gina but we won't go too much into that given this is a serious political site!

    Weall, you were happy to support a Johnson regime which had Ms Dorries as a key element.
    Dorries was also suspended for doing I'm a Celeb but Johnson liked her, Sunak clearly does not like Hancock as his blanking him showed. Hence he will not bring him back post suspension
    TBF I can't remember either if she was doing it while Parliament was in session? She did go off without clearing it with the Party, though.
    Nads did go topless on a nude beach down there preparing for the show. Saggy’s you could throw over both shoulders or tie into a bow. IACGMOOH has so much to answer for. But we all watch it don’t we?

    Talking of we, Thatcher giving Gaffney a golden shower was a particular highlight.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,530
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Israel

    https://13tv.co.il/live/

    https://votes25.bechirot.gov.il/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Israeli_legislative_election

    Unlike Denmark which will probably finish counting in 3-4 hours after poll closing, Israel counts slowly and we aren't likely to get any results for a while.

    UPDATE: exit polls giving Right bloc 61-62/120 seats so looking like a return for Bibi.

    Thanks,

    DC

    It's looking like 61.

    So, the government will last about nine months until something happens to one of the 61.

    There aren't many better arguments for FPTP than Israel.
    It gives strong stable governments, which is why Belarus uses it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,844
    If you thought you'd seen it all from Vladimir Solovyov, think again

    In his latest tirade, he calls Russia's invasion of Ukraine a "counterattack" launched in response to eight years of Ukrainian "genocide against those who won't accept LGBT, transgender-Nazi values"

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1587514273688854530
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,911

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    The lady tax would need to be balanced by a man tax. £1,000 p.a. per inch and let’s see who still boasts about having 10 inches!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Israel

    https://13tv.co.il/live/

    https://votes25.bechirot.gov.il/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Israeli_legislative_election

    Unlike Denmark which will probably finish counting in 3-4 hours after poll closing, Israel counts slowly and we aren't likely to get any results for a while.

    UPDATE: exit polls giving Right bloc 61-62/120 seats so looking like a return for Bibi.

    Thanks,

    DC

    It's looking like 61.

    So, the government will last about nine months until something happens to one of the 61.

    There aren't many better arguments for FPTP than Israel.
    Arn’t there other measurements? Like how well economy is going under an electoral system, or happiness index in their electoral system knowing not a vote is pointless or wasted?
  • rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Israel

    https://13tv.co.il/live/

    https://votes25.bechirot.gov.il/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Israeli_legislative_election

    Unlike Denmark which will probably finish counting in 3-4 hours after poll closing, Israel counts slowly and we aren't likely to get any results for a while.

    UPDATE: exit polls giving Right bloc 61-62/120 seats so looking like a return for Bibi.

    Thanks,

    DC

    It's looking like 61.

    So, the government will last about nine months until something happens to one of the 61.

    There aren't many better arguments for FPTP than Israel.
    Looking like 11 parties will win seats in Israel, and 12 in Denmark.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,994

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Israel

    https://13tv.co.il/live/

    https://votes25.bechirot.gov.il/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Israeli_legislative_election

    Unlike Denmark which will probably finish counting in 3-4 hours after poll closing, Israel counts slowly and we aren't likely to get any results for a while.

    UPDATE: exit polls giving Right bloc 61-62/120 seats so looking like a return for Bibi.

    Thanks,

    DC

    It's looking like 61.

    So, the government will last about nine months until something happens to one of the 61.

    There aren't many better arguments for FPTP than Israel.
    Looking like 11 parties will win seats in Israel, and 12 in Denmark.
    Similar numbers to the UK.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,767
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson held an event for 60 of his supporters tonight in his new office in Westminster

    He told MPs he will support Sunak and the new govt

    BUT he also said he will seek to ‘protect his legacy’ on Ukraine, Brexit, levelling up & the 2019 manifesto

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1587550739680854017

    Lol, protecting his legacy on Brexit. What bits of the absolute shambles does he want to protect? Northern Island part of Brexit obviously doesn't need any changes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,937
    Ant says to Dec, "Is that a kangaroo anus?"

    "No, that's Matt Hancock"
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    The lady tax would need to be balanced by a man tax. £1,000 p.a. per inch and let’s see who still boasts about having 10 inches!
    Wiener Tax?

    Is it me, or is it like being trapped in an episode of The Vicar of Dibley on here this evening?

    I think I’ll give up on getting any sense here, and go off to ConHome again see how they are doing.
  • rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Israel

    https://13tv.co.il/live/

    https://votes25.bechirot.gov.il/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Israeli_legislative_election

    Unlike Denmark which will probably finish counting in 3-4 hours after poll closing, Israel counts slowly and we aren't likely to get any results for a while.

    UPDATE: exit polls giving Right bloc 61-62/120 seats so looking like a return for Bibi.

    Thanks,

    DC

    It's looking like 61.

    So, the government will last about nine months until something happens to one of the 61.

    There aren't many better arguments for FPTP than Israel.
    Looking like 11 parties will win seats in Israel, and 12 in Denmark.
    Similar numbers to the UK.
    Obviously the difference will be in how many parties will make up the governing coalitions, or be providing confidence/supply.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    The lady tax would need to be balanced by a man tax. £1,000 p.a. per inch and let’s see who still boasts about having 10 inches!
    We need to firm up these proposals
  • Ukraine is not getting enough coverage.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,937
    Boris Johnson says polls don’t exist and he isn’t defending a majority of just 7,210.
    https://twitter.com/steven_swinford/status/1587551572023713799
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,994

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    The lady tax would need to be balanced by a man tax. £1,000 p.a. per inch and let’s see who still boasts about having 10 inches!
    We need to firm up these proposals
    It falls outside the Chancellor's brief.
  • HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    I don't understand that. Landlords will just add the property tax onto the rent.
    But what about social housing and part owned etc? I dunno, maybe its ok. My brain is swiss cheese tonight
    I don't see how you could do anything other than levy it on all property owners. I'd be OK as it would work out at about the same as my council tax.
    What makes you think it would not be in addition to existing council tax?
  • A hypothecated social care and health tax, treated as income tax and reducing NI as a result. That will ensure pensioners pay their whack without the challenges of folding NI into income tax.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    The idea of taxing wealth, rather than increasing taxes on income, has been discussed many times on here and I believe, widely supported.

    A property tax is a proxy for a wealth tax. In many ways it's easier and fairer to tax property than other forms of wealth, since property cannot be squirrelled away offshore and UK property owned by non-doms would also be taxable.

    Disadvantages are: property is illiquid so it may not be easy for property rich, income poor individuals to find the tax. The other issue is agreeing an accurate valuation.

    Both of these issues are easily solvable, e.g.: Allow the owner to 'pay' the tax by placing a charge on the property to be settled when the property is sold or on death. For valuations, default the value to the last sale price uprated by the relevant property or land price index, allowing the owner to request (and pay for) an official valuation.

    I'm in favour, even though it will cost me.
    Thanks for the input.

    So why the difference between PB widely supporting property tax, but government not acting on our recommendation?

    How do you see the chances of this months budget including property tax’s?
    No idea obviously but I suspect some wealth tax is coming in the next few years, maybe not until after the GE.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,446
    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    Yeah hammer the fuckers with a proper death tax, no weaselling out by putting shit in trust and living 7 years, no million notes exemption for the family home. Crucify the really big estates - Grosvenor, etc - and teach the essentially poor people who live in squillion pound inflated houses that they are essentially poor, and serve them right.

    Numerous studies have shown the optimality of pursuing this strategy while reducing the tax burden on the merely well off.
    Lord, tax me, but not yet.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    Got to love these big nights of big European football.

    TSE and Barty will be happy.

    Whose the PB Spurs fan, is it Anabob?
  • Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hancock will want to cash in on his fame while he still has it, as he has made clear he has zero chance of returning to government now anyway. Sunak effectively blanked him when he greeted supporters.

    Included in the tasks will be eating various parts of animal anatomy, one could say he has had plenty of practice on that already in the office of the Health Secretary during the lockdown with Gina but we won't go too much into that given this is a serious political site!

    Weall, you were happy to support a Johnson regime which had Ms Dorries as a key element.
    Dorries was also suspended for doing I'm a Celeb but Johnson liked her, Sunak clearly does not like Hancock as his blanking him showed. Hence he will not bring him back post suspension
    TBF I can't remember either if she was doing it while Parliament was in session? She did go off without clearing it with the Party, though.
    Nads did go topless on a nude beach down there preparing for the show. Saggy’s you could throw over both shoulders or tie into a bow. IACGMOOH has so much to answer for. But we all watch it don’t we?

    No, we most certainly not!
  • Rather than a property tax there should be a land value tax. My other comment is what the hell is wrong with income tax? It should be the backbone tax. Ever since New Labour pledged to not raise it there has been a phobia gripping politicians.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,204

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Government has “war gamed” emergency plans to cope with energy blackouts lasting up to seven days in event of national power outage. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/01/government-tests-energy-blackout-emergency-plans-as-supply-fears-grow

    The Guardian has seen documents, marked “official sensitive”, which warn that in a “reasonable worst-case scenario” all sectors including transport, food and water supply, communications and energy could be “severely disrupted” for up to a week.

    I don't see why we're not all being encouraged to save power.

    I have managed to keep my heating off into November, although I have noticed that, although it is still 19 degrees indoors, with the wetter and cooler weather outside it actually feels colder indoors than it did.
    I think the idea is intelligent people, when faced with increased bills, will be be prudent without the nanny state laying it on thick. This, at least, is a conservative vs labour issue. I think if labour were in power the save energy campaigns would be prominent.
    The stupid thing is that the government has halved the price signal by the moronic energy price fixing. If they'd just dumped the equivalent cost as cash on each household then at least some people might have used less energy and spent the money on something else, which would have done the economy and balance of payments situation a world of good, as well as reducing electricity consumption to the point blackouts are much less likely.

    I've been doing my part - finally installed a woodburner in the living room - I've near infinite free wood at work, and since the stove went in a couple of weeks ago the gas central heating hasn't stirred (I'm about 1100' above sea level, which means normally one needs some heating this time of year).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    RunDeep said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    I don't understand that. Landlords will just add the property tax onto the rent.
    But what about social housing and part owned etc? I dunno, maybe its ok. My brain is swiss cheese tonight
    I don't see how you could do anything other than levy it on all property owners. I'd be OK as it would work out at about the same as my council tax.
    What makes you think it would not be in addition to existing council tax?
    Willets' proposal suggests "replacing council tax and stamp duty with a proportional property tax" set at 0.5% of the property's value.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hancock will want to cash in on his fame while he still has it, as he has made clear he has zero chance of returning to government now anyway. Sunak effectively blanked him when he greeted supporters.

    Included in the tasks will be eating various parts of animal anatomy, one could say he has had plenty of practice on that already in the office of the Health Secretary during the lockdown with Gina but we won't go too much into that given this is a serious political site!

    Weall, you were happy to support a Johnson regime which had Ms Dorries as a key element.
    Dorries was also suspended for doing I'm a Celeb but Johnson liked her, Sunak clearly does not like Hancock as his blanking him showed. Hence he will not bring him back post suspension
    TBF I can't remember either if she was doing it while Parliament was in session? She did go off without clearing it with the Party, though.
    Nads did go topless on a nude beach down there preparing for the show. Saggy’s you could throw over both shoulders or tie into a bow. IACGMOOH has so much to answer for. But we all watch it don’t we?

    No, we most certainly not!
    Oh yes you do. Though I don’t follow it as much now as I did when I was school age.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    theProle said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Government has “war gamed” emergency plans to cope with energy blackouts lasting up to seven days in event of national power outage. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/01/government-tests-energy-blackout-emergency-plans-as-supply-fears-grow

    The Guardian has seen documents, marked “official sensitive”, which warn that in a “reasonable worst-case scenario” all sectors including transport, food and water supply, communications and energy could be “severely disrupted” for up to a week.

    I don't see why we're not all being encouraged to save power.

    I have managed to keep my heating off into November, although I have noticed that, although it is still 19 degrees indoors, with the wetter and cooler weather outside it actually feels colder indoors than it did.
    I think the idea is intelligent people, when faced with increased bills, will be be prudent without the nanny state laying it on thick. This, at least, is a conservative vs labour issue. I think if labour were in power the save energy campaigns would be prominent.
    The stupid thing is that the government has halved the price signal by the moronic energy price fixing. If they'd just dumped the equivalent cost as cash on each household then at least some people might have used less energy and spent the money on something else, which would have done the economy and balance of payments situation a world of good, as well as reducing electricity consumption to the point blackouts are much less likely.

    I've been doing my part - finally installed a woodburner in the living room - I've near infinite free wood at work, and since the stove went in a couple of weeks ago the gas central heating hasn't stirred (I'm about 1100' above sea level, which means normally one needs some heating this time of year).
    My electricity going up 3-fold instead of 6-fold has still been plenty of incentive for us to economise tbh.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379

    RunDeep said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    I don't understand that. Landlords will just add the property tax onto the rent.
    But what about social housing and part owned etc? I dunno, maybe its ok. My brain is swiss cheese tonight
    I don't see how you could do anything other than levy it on all property owners. I'd be OK as it would work out at about the same as my council tax.
    What makes you think it would not be in addition to existing council tax?
    Willets' proposal suggests "replacing council tax and stamp duty with a proportional property tax" set at 0.5% of the property's value.
    My council tax is currently over 3.5% of value.
    So I heartily approve.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hancock will want to cash in on his fame while he still has it, as he has made clear he has zero chance of returning to government now anyway. Sunak effectively blanked him when he greeted supporters.

    Included in the tasks will be eating various parts of animal anatomy, one could say he has had plenty of practice on that already in the office of the Health Secretary during the lockdown with Gina but we won't go too much into that given this is a serious political site!

    Weall, you were happy to support a Johnson regime which had Ms Dorries as a key element.
    Dorries was also suspended for doing I'm a Celeb but Johnson liked her, Sunak clearly does not like Hancock as his blanking him showed. Hence he will not bring him back post suspension
    TBF I can't remember either if she was doing it while Parliament was in session? She did go off without clearing it with the Party, though.
    Nads did go topless on a nude beach down there preparing for the show. Saggy’s you could throw over both shoulders or tie into a bow. IACGMOOH has so much to answer for. But we all watch it don’t we?

    No, we most certainly not!
    Oh yes you do. Though I don’t follow it as much now as I did when I was school age.
    Never seen it, never will. The very thought makes me cringe.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,446
    Both 538 and the Economist are giving the GOP a 51% chance of winning control of the Senate.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/senate/
    https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-midterms-2022/forecast/senate
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,690
    Scott_xP said:

    Ant says to Dec, "Is that a kangaroo anus?"

    "No, that's Matt Hancock"

    Oh, *please*.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,204
    dixiedean said:

    RunDeep said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    I don't understand that. Landlords will just add the property tax onto the rent.
    But what about social housing and part owned etc? I dunno, maybe its ok. My brain is swiss cheese tonight
    I don't see how you could do anything other than levy it on all property owners. I'd be OK as it would work out at about the same as my council tax.
    What makes you think it would not be in addition to existing council tax?
    Willets' proposal suggests "replacing council tax and stamp duty with a proportional property tax" set at 0.5% of the property's value.
    My council tax is currently over 3.5% of value.
    So I heartily approve.
    It would massively rebalance property tax from the north to the SE. My northern 3 bed house would go from about £1200 to £700. An equivalent house in the SE would go to more like £2000.
    That might be a good thing (leveling up and a that), but wouldn't exactly be a hit in the shires...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    dixiedean said:

    RunDeep said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    I don't understand that. Landlords will just add the property tax onto the rent.
    But what about social housing and part owned etc? I dunno, maybe its ok. My brain is swiss cheese tonight
    I don't see how you could do anything other than levy it on all property owners. I'd be OK as it would work out at about the same as my council tax.
    What makes you think it would not be in addition to existing council tax?
    Willets' proposal suggests "replacing council tax and stamp duty with a proportional property tax" set at 0.5% of the property's value.
    My council tax is currently over 3.5% of value.
    So I heartily approve.
    I'd be worse off but it's still the right thing to do.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    Later evening all :)

    88% counted in Denmark and currently the centre-left is projected to win 85 seats in the new Folketing and the centre-right 74 and the Moderates holding the balance with 16.

    The centre-left are down 14 and the centre right down 2 so you can see from where the Moderate vote might have come.

    It's a poor result for the Social Democrats and a dreadful result for Venstre. The three big winners are the Denmark Democrats, the Moderates and the Liberal Alliance who have gained 41 seats between them and the three big losers are Venstre, Radikale Venstre and the Danish People's Party who have lost 40 seats between them.

    The irony is Venstre has lost seats to a party led by its former leader (Moderates) and to a party led by a former Deputy Leader (Denmark Democrats). Indeed, the leader and deputy leader of the party at the last election are now leading two completely separate parties.

    Lars Lokke Rasmussen has kept his post-election cards very close to his chest throughout the campaign but he is now speculating on the idea of a new coalition involving the Social Democrats, Venstre and the Moderates. Such a grouping would have 89 seats and effectively though not actually a majority - perhaps they could draw in the Liberal Alliance. As to his own role in such a Government, he's being predictably coy though I suspect he'd like to be Prime Minister again the truth is Mette Frederiksen's Social Democrats have won most seats.

    I suspect this is going to be an entertaining post-election Government formation exercise. I suspect Rasmussen wants to break apart the current blocs and create a three-bloc system with the "extreme" (as he would see it) right and left parties on their own and the largest bloc coalescing around the centrist parties who would effectively have close to a majority and therefore (as he might see it) compel other parties to re-orient back to the centre.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    theProle said:

    dixiedean said:

    RunDeep said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    I don't understand that. Landlords will just add the property tax onto the rent.
    But what about social housing and part owned etc? I dunno, maybe its ok. My brain is swiss cheese tonight
    I don't see how you could do anything other than levy it on all property owners. I'd be OK as it would work out at about the same as my council tax.
    What makes you think it would not be in addition to existing council tax?
    Willets' proposal suggests "replacing council tax and stamp duty with a proportional property tax" set at 0.5% of the property's value.
    My council tax is currently over 3.5% of value.
    So I heartily approve.
    It would massively rebalance property tax from the north to the SE. My northern 3 bed house would go from about £1200 to £700. An equivalent house in the SE would go to more like £2000.
    That might be a good thing (leveling up and a that), but wouldn't exactly be a hit in the shires...
    Makes little sense too because the SE council does not need three times as much revenue.
  • stodge said:

    Later evening all :)

    88% counted in Denmark and currently the centre-left is projected to win 85 seats in the new Folketing and the centre-right 74 and the Moderates holding the balance with 16.

    The centre-left are down 14 and the centre right down 2 so you can see from where the Moderate vote might have come.

    It's a poor result for the Social Democrats and a dreadful result for Venstre. The three big winners are the Denmark Democrats, the Moderates and the Liberal Alliance who have gained 41 seats between them and the three big losers are Venstre, Radikale Venstre and the Danish People's Party who have lost 40 seats between them.

    The irony is Venstre has lost seats to a party led by its former leader (Moderates) and to a party led by a former Deputy Leader (Denmark Democrats). Indeed, the leader and deputy leader of the party at the last election are now leading two completely separate parties.

    Lars Lokke Rasmussen has kept his post-election cards very close to his chest throughout the campaign but he is now speculating on the idea of a new coalition involving the Social Democrats, Venstre and the Moderates. Such a grouping would have 89 seats and effectively though not actually a majority - perhaps they could draw in the Liberal Alliance. As to his own role in such a Government, he's being predictably coy though I suspect he'd like to be Prime Minister again the truth is Mette Frederiksen's Social Democrats have won most seats.

    I suspect this is going to be an entertaining post-election Government formation exercise. I suspect Rasmussen wants to break apart the current blocs and create a three-bloc system with the "extreme" (as he would see it) right and left parties on their own and the largest bloc coalescing around the centrist parties who would effectively have close to a majority and therefore (as he might see it) compel other parties to re-orient back to the centre.

    Many thanks Stodge. Although this poor result for the Soc Dems sees them slightly up from 2019?
  • Andy_JS said:

    Both 538 and the Economist are giving the GOP a 51% chance of winning control of the Senate.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/senate/
    https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-midterms-2022/forecast/senate

    RCP are predicting 4 rep gains now (NV, NH, AZ,GA). 1st poll to show the Rep ahead in NH all campaign
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379
    edited November 2022
    theProle said:

    dixiedean said:

    RunDeep said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    I don't understand that. Landlords will just add the property tax onto the rent.
    But what about social housing and part owned etc? I dunno, maybe its ok. My brain is swiss cheese tonight
    I don't see how you could do anything other than levy it on all property owners. I'd be OK as it would work out at about the same as my council tax.
    What makes you think it would not be in addition to existing council tax?
    Willets' proposal suggests "replacing council tax and stamp duty with a proportional property tax" set at 0.5% of the property's value.
    My council tax is currently over 3.5% of value.
    So I heartily approve.
    It would massively rebalance property tax from the north to the SE. My northern 3 bed house would go from about £1200 to £700. An equivalent house in the SE would go to more like £2000.
    That might be a good thing (leveling up and a that), but wouldn't exactly be a hit in the shires...
    My northern 1 bed flat is over £1400.
    It's a huge weight on disposable income. And massive disincentive to finding work.
    The marginal tax of Council Tax for those on UC because unemployed (zero) and those on UC because full time on minimum wage (very close to the full amount), is positively eye watering.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,028
    Nigelb said:

    If you thought you'd seen it all from Vladimir Solovyov, think again

    In his latest tirade, he calls Russia's invasion of Ukraine a "counterattack" launched in response to eight years of Ukrainian "genocide against those who won't accept LGBT, transgender-Nazi values"

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1587514273688854530

    To be fair, Goring was known for his cross dressing, so there's a (admittedly fucking tenuous) link between the Nazis and transgender folk.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Israel

    https://13tv.co.il/live/

    https://votes25.bechirot.gov.il/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Israeli_legislative_election

    Unlike Denmark which will probably finish counting in 3-4 hours after poll closing, Israel counts slowly and we aren't likely to get any results for a while.

    UPDATE: exit polls giving Right bloc 61-62/120 seats so looking like a return for Bibi.

    Thanks,

    DC

    It's looking like 61.

    So, the government will last about nine months until something happens to one of the 61.

    There aren't many better arguments for FPTP than Israel.
    That might not do much good, since Israel's people live in communities reflecting the national, sectarian and linguistic origins of their parents or grandparents from every corner of the world, plus the Arabs, of course.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hancock will want to cash in on his fame while he still has it, as he has made clear he has zero chance of returning to government now anyway. Sunak effectively blanked him when he greeted supporters.

    Included in the tasks will be eating various parts of animal anatomy, one could say he has had plenty of practice on that already in the office of the Health Secretary during the lockdown with Gina but we won't go too much into that given this is a serious political site!

    Weall, you were happy to support a Johnson regime which had Ms Dorries as a key element.
    Dorries was also suspended for doing I'm a Celeb but Johnson liked her, Sunak clearly does not like Hancock as his blanking him showed. Hence he will not bring him back post suspension
    TBF I can't remember either if she was doing it while Parliament was in session? She did go off without clearing it with the Party, though.
    Nads did go topless on a nude beach down there preparing for the show. Saggy’s you could throw over both shoulders or tie into a bow. IACGMOOH has so much to answer for. But we all watch it don’t we?

    No, we most certainly not!
    Oh yes you do. Though I don’t follow it as much now as I did when I was school age.
    Never seen it, never will. The very thought makes me cringe.
    You should give it a go! It’s a superb construct, very psychological. Ignore the bush trucker trials, that’s not what it’s about. It’s about people, and their raw psyche. They get a mix of celebrities, many flawed or full of themselves, they put them in a sort of hostile cage, and then starve them. As the billy ribbon gets low, the true person emerges, often in fascinating and hilarious ways. But also some will always surprise on the upside and become leaders, like Tony Blackburn for example.

    Each series is unique, never same, and some series rather flat, it depends on the mix of people and interactions show runners cannot control.

    It’s not a reality tv game show, it’s a lab experiment for anyone interested in psychology and human behaviour. And it can be distractingly funny.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    edited November 2022

    stodge said:

    Later evening all :)

    88% counted in Denmark and currently the centre-left is projected to win 85 seats in the new Folketing and the centre-right 74 and the Moderates holding the balance with 16.

    The centre-left are down 14 and the centre right down 2 so you can see from where the Moderate vote might have come.

    It's a poor result for the Social Democrats and a dreadful result for Venstre. The three big winners are the Denmark Democrats, the Moderates and the Liberal Alliance who have gained 41 seats between them and the three big losers are Venstre, Radikale Venstre and the Danish People's Party who have lost 40 seats between them.

    The irony is Venstre has lost seats to a party led by its former leader (Moderates) and to a party led by a former Deputy Leader (Denmark Democrats). Indeed, the leader and deputy leader of the party at the last election are now leading two completely separate parties.

    Lars Lokke Rasmussen has kept his post-election cards very close to his chest throughout the campaign but he is now speculating on the idea of a new coalition involving the Social Democrats, Venstre and the Moderates. Such a grouping would have 89 seats and effectively though not actually a majority - perhaps they could draw in the Liberal Alliance. As to his own role in such a Government, he's being predictably coy though I suspect he'd like to be Prime Minister again the truth is Mette Frederiksen's Social Democrats have won most seats.

    I suspect this is going to be an entertaining post-election Government formation exercise. I suspect Rasmussen wants to break apart the current blocs and create a three-bloc system with the "extreme" (as he would see it) right and left parties on their own and the largest bloc coalescing around the centrist parties who would effectively have close to a majority and therefore (as he might see it) compel other parties to re-orient back to the centre.

    Many thanks Stodge. Although this poor result for the Soc Dems sees them slightly up from 2019?
    Yes - I meant more in historical terms but for Venstre it's the worst result since the 1980s.

    Update - 92% counted and it's 86-73 with 16 for the Moderates. We mustn't forget the four seats allocated to the Faeroes and Greenland. The former split equally with one seats won by the Union party which backs the centre-right and the other by the Social Democrats. We then have the Greenland seats which last time went one to the Social Democrats and one to a democratic socialist party.

    I suppose if you add the three centre-left and left seats to the 86 you'd have 89 out of 179 so not quite a majority but perhaps enough for Frederiksen to continue without the Moderates - we'll see.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,329
    edited November 2022

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hancock will want to cash in on his fame while he still has it, as he has made clear he has zero chance of returning to government now anyway. Sunak effectively blanked him when he greeted supporters.

    Included in the tasks will be eating various parts of animal anatomy, one could say he has had plenty of practice on that already in the office of the Health Secretary during the lockdown with Gina but we won't go too much into that given this is a serious political site!

    Weall, you were happy to support a Johnson regime which had Ms Dorries as a key element.
    Dorries was also suspended for doing I'm a Celeb but Johnson liked her, Sunak clearly does not like Hancock as his blanking him showed. Hence he will not bring him back post suspension
    TBF I can't remember either if she was doing it while Parliament was in session? She did go off without clearing it with the Party, though.
    Nads did go topless on a nude beach down there preparing for the show. Saggy’s you could throw over both shoulders or tie into a bow. IACGMOOH has so much to answer for. But we all watch it don’t we?

    No, we most certainly not!
    Oh yes you do. Though I don’t follow it as much now as I did when I was school age.
    Never seen it, never will. The very thought makes me cringe.
    You should give it a go! It’s a superb construct, very psychological. Ignore the bush trucker trials, that’s not what it’s about. It’s about people, and their raw psyche. They get a mix of celebrities, many flawed or full of themselves, they put them in a sort of hostile cage, and then starve them. As the billy ribbon gets low, the true person emerges, often in fascinating and hilarious ways. But also some will always surprise on the upside and become leaders, like Tony Blackburn for example.

    Each series is unique, never same, and some series rather flat, it depends on the mix of people and interactions show runners cannot control.

    It’s not a reality tv game show, it’s a lab experiment for anyone interested in psychology and human behaviour. And it can be distractingly funny.
    Your last two paragraphs make it sound a bit like a typical PB thread.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156
    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    First.

    Was Hancock really the lead story on the Six O'Clock News? That is ridiculous.

    High profile former minister pisses off to undertake a vanity project while drawing his MPs salary? I think that makes it.
    Erdogan calling Putin’s bluff on grain shipment?

    Suella watch day X?


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156

    Matt Hancock doesn't rewrite the first line of his obituary but does add another subclause.

    To be fair to him… Dorries got into Cabinet after doing her show… why shouldn’t he?
  • The Danish coverage is way better than the Israeli - as is the counting.

    Denmark was over 50% counted after 2.5 hours but the first results are now just trickling through in Israel, with 3600 votes counted.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Got to love these big nights of big European football.

    TSE and Barty will be happy.

    Whose the PB Spurs fan, is it Anabob?

    I'm the OM fan so I'm not chuffed.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156
    Roger said:

    I'd say it's a very important story and should open a can of worms. They might even enquire what Boris Johnson was doing giving a talk to a bunch of US insurance brokers for $150,000 before returning to his beach hideaway while parliament was sitting and he was being paid to attend.

    Hey! He’s not being paid to attend, he’s being paid to represent the good people of Uxbridge.

    I imagine a number of them are workshy twonks as well - why shouldn’t they be represented to the best of his ability?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    rcs1000 said:

    In Israel, Arab party Ballad is currently 0.1% below the level (3.25%) required to get seats. If they make the threshold, then Bibi's coalition will almost certainly fall to 59 or 60 seats, and make forming a government essentially impossible.

    What about the bloke who used to be Prime Minister of Israel.
    How'd ya like to have a bloke runnin' Australia by the name a Mr. Netanyahu!
    Wonder what'd happen if he adopted Yahoo Serious?
    Yahoo Serious' name'd be Yahoo Netanyahu!

    Oh, you mean the Balad Party not an actual ballad 🤦‍♀️
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,617
    Andy_JS said:

    Both 538 and the Economist are giving the GOP a 51% chance of winning control of the Senate.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/senate/
    https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-midterms-2022/forecast/senate

    Forecast 50 50 seats, ie no change.

    If the GOP win both Chambers Trump may already be President elect whatever happens in the 2024 Presidential election as he could get Congress to overturn the EC result even if he loses
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    1% annual tax on residential property (last transaction value).

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,190
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Hancock will want to cash in on his fame while he still has it, as he has made clear he has zero chance of returning to government now anyway. Sunak effectively blanked him when he greeted supporters.

    Included in the tasks will be eating various parts of animal anatomy, one could say he has had plenty of practice on that already in the office of the Health Secretary during the lockdown with Gina but we won't go too much into that given this is a serious political site!

    Eat Out To Help Out?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,617
    Nigelb said:

    If you thought you'd seen it all from Vladimir Solovyov, think again

    In his latest tirade, he calls Russia's invasion of Ukraine a "counterattack" launched in response to eight years of Ukrainian "genocide against those who won't accept LGBT, transgender-Nazi values"

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1587514273688854530

    Zelensky dancing and singing on Russian TV about a decade ago with Solovyov happily watching in the background

    https://twitter.com/JusticeNafo/status/1581197557853659141?s=20&t=AAN4MJTjqxeJ10ZaLAIC9w
  • Matt Hancock doesn't rewrite the first line of his obituary but does add another subclause.

    To be fair to him… Dorries got into Cabinet after doing her show… why shouldn’t he?
    It's worth pointing out that in the draft new boundaries, Suffolk and Essex gain an extra seat between them and as a result W Suffolk is abolished with half going with Bury St Edmunds and the rest with a large slice of Braintree district

    The good news for Hancock is that the extra seat in the 2 counties means everyone should be able to get a seat with one to spare.
    The bad news is that any residual loyalty within his Con association will be split up between the 2 new seats
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Later evening all :)

    88% counted in Denmark and currently the centre-left is projected to win 85 seats in the new Folketing and the centre-right 74 and the Moderates holding the balance with 16.

    The centre-left are down 14 and the centre right down 2 so you can see from where the Moderate vote might have come.

    It's a poor result for the Social Democrats and a dreadful result for Venstre. The three big winners are the Denmark Democrats, the Moderates and the Liberal Alliance who have gained 41 seats between them and the three big losers are Venstre, Radikale Venstre and the Danish People's Party who have lost 40 seats between them.

    The irony is Venstre has lost seats to a party led by its former leader (Moderates) and to a party led by a former Deputy Leader (Denmark Democrats). Indeed, the leader and deputy leader of the party at the last election are now leading two completely separate parties.

    Lars Lokke Rasmussen has kept his post-election cards very close to his chest throughout the campaign but he is now speculating on the idea of a new coalition involving the Social Democrats, Venstre and the Moderates. Such a grouping would have 89 seats and effectively though not actually a majority - perhaps they could draw in the Liberal Alliance. As to his own role in such a Government, he's being predictably coy though I suspect he'd like to be Prime Minister again the truth is Mette Frederiksen's Social Democrats have won most seats.

    I suspect this is going to be an entertaining post-election Government formation exercise. I suspect Rasmussen wants to break apart the current blocs and create a three-bloc system with the "extreme" (as he would see it) right and left parties on their own and the largest bloc coalescing around the centrist parties who would effectively have close to a majority and therefore (as he might see it) compel other parties to re-orient back to the centre.

    Many thanks Stodge. Although this poor result for the Soc Dems sees them slightly up from 2019?
    Yes - I meant more in historical terms but for Venstre it's the worst result since the 1980s.

    Update - 92% counted and it's 86-73 with 16 for the Moderates. We mustn't forget the four seats allocated to the Faeroes and Greenland. The former split equally with one seats won by the Union party which backs the centre-right and the other by the Social Democrats. We then have the Greenland seats which last time went one to the Social Democrats and one to a democratic socialist party.

    I suppose if you add the three centre-left and left seats to the 86 you'd have 89 out of 179 so not quite a majority but perhaps enough for Frederiksen to continue without the Moderates - we'll see.
    So which of these parties are all in favour of exploiting Greenland for natural resources, so getting rich and keeping power for a long time, and which parties are trying to stop them achieving that?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    Keep council tax - the central obligations (social services, etc) paid for from the new central property tax. Local services (dustbins, etc) paid for by council tax. I’d go with a flat rate per head of population but I’m sure people would complain…
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    rcs1000 said:


    It's looking like 61.

    So, the government will last about nine months until something happens to one of the 61.

    There aren't many better arguments for FPTP than Israel.

    Without wishing to re-ignite last Sunday morning's fire, that's a crass generalisation.

    The bigger question is more of a chicken and egg - does the voting system create the political structure and culture or does the political structure and culture lead you to a voting system?

    My turn to generalise but in an adversarial system, you usually have two main competing "blocs" which may be single parties or groups of parties which habitually co-operate and collaborate.

    What we have seen periodically is traditional two-party structures weaken their grip and allow other parties to come in to the mix - this has happened in Germany, Sweden and Spain to name but three.

    More modern trends have disrupted the Butskellite political culture so you have populist conservatism or nationalism (FN, VOX, Freedom Party to name but three) who challenge traditional centre-right parties and either compete with or force them to migrate toward the Right.

    On the other side, traditional social democracy is challenged by (often) democratic socialist and Green political movements who either become competitors or force the older party to the left. This happens in all political systems and under all voting systems.

    Rasmussen's response in Denmark is to try and persuade the traditional centrist parties they have more in common with each other than the extreme members of their respective blocs.

    This was in essence where the SDP wanted to go in the 1980s - it wasn't just to schism Labour but to force a similar schism within the Conservatives whereby the traditional one nation members (the "Wets" to use the vernacular of the time) would join the traditional "old Labour" exiles in the new party and it, along with the Liberals, would act as a centrist bloc while the Conservative and Labour parties became dominated by more extreme elements.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    Dura_Ace said:

    Got to love these big nights of big European football.

    TSE and Barty will be happy.

    Whose the PB Spurs fan, is it Anabob?

    I'm the OM fan so I'm not chuffed.
    You gave it a damn good go, though.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,559
    Dura_Ace said:

    Got to love these big nights of big European football.

    TSE and Barty will be happy.

    Whose the PB Spurs fan, is it Anabob?

    I'm the OM fan so I'm not chuffed.
    Max is.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,446
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Both 538 and the Economist are giving the GOP a 51% chance of winning control of the Senate.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/senate/
    https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-midterms-2022/forecast/senate

    Forecast 50 50 seats, ie no change.

    If the GOP win both Chambers Trump may already be President elect whatever happens in the 2024 Presidential election as he could get Congress to overturn the EC result even if he loses
    538 forecasts 50.5 GOP seats, so it's on the edge of 51 seats.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    The idea of taxing wealth, rather than increasing taxes on income, has been discussed many times on here and I believe, widely supported.

    A property tax is a proxy for a wealth tax. In many ways it's easier and fairer to tax property than other forms of wealth, since property cannot be squirrelled away offshore and UK property owned by non-doms would also be taxable.

    Disadvantages are: property is illiquid so it may not be easy for property rich, income poor individuals to find the tax. The other issue is agreeing an accurate valuation.

    Both of these issues are easily solvable, e.g.: Allow the owner to 'pay' the tax by placing a charge on the property to be settled when the property is sold or on death. For valuations, default the value to the last sale price uprated by the relevant property or land price index, allowing the owner to request (and pay for) an official valuation.

    I'm in favour, even though it will cost me.
    Eek! Very much dislike the idea of giving government a direct incentive to increase house prices!

    Suggest we just uprate by CPI (capped at 2.5% since the Bank of England is fantabulous at their job)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Eabhal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Got to love these big nights of big European football.

    TSE and Barty will be happy.

    Whose the PB Spurs fan, is it Anabob?

    I'm the OM fan so I'm not chuffed.
    Max is.
    That just makes it worse.
  • I agree with Iain
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,536
    The Trumpies will feel vindicated, even though all their theories were wrong:

    https://nypost.com/2022/11/01/paul-pelosis-attacker-david-depape-in-us-illegally-on-overstayed-visa/

    Those pesky mexicans, I mean, er canadians.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Government has “war gamed” emergency plans to cope with energy blackouts lasting up to seven days in event of national power outage. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/01/government-tests-energy-blackout-emergency-plans-as-supply-fears-grow

    The Guardian has seen documents, marked “official sensitive”, which warn that in a “reasonable worst-case scenario” all sectors including transport, food and water supply, communications and energy could be “severely disrupted” for up to a week.

    I don't see why we're not all being encouraged to save power.

    I have managed to keep my heating off into November, although I have noticed that, although it is still 19 degrees indoors, with the wetter and cooler weather outside it actually feels colder indoors than it did.
    I think the idea is intelligent people, when faced with increased bills, will be be prudent without the nanny state laying it on thick. This, at least, is a conservative vs labour issue. I think if labour were in power the save energy campaigns would be prominent.
    I remember a great Giles cartoon with middle aged men queuing up the share a bath with an attractive young blonde to “save energy”
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,204

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    Keep council tax - the central obligations (social services, etc) paid for from the new central property tax. Local services (dustbins, etc) paid for by council tax. I’d go with a flat rate per head of population but I’m sure people would complain…
    I can't see that theirs any logic in keeping both taxes - ideally tax should be simpler, rather than more complicated.
    That said, one of the few virtues of council tax is that its set locally, so one can attempt to vote for parties who won't increase it. Possibly one could split a new value based tax as say 0.25% raised and distributed nationally, then up to say a further 0.5% raised and spent locally, maybe with local people required to vote to approve the local rate being increased beyond 0.25%.

    All this said, a lot of this could be fixed just by doing the wildly overdue council tax revaluation for England, and adding a load more bands at the top.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156
    EPG said:

    theProle said:

    dixiedean said:

    RunDeep said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    I don't understand that. Landlords will just add the property tax onto the rent.
    But what about social housing and part owned etc? I dunno, maybe its ok. My brain is swiss cheese tonight
    I don't see how you could do anything other than levy it on all property owners. I'd be OK as it would work out at about the same as my council tax.
    What makes you think it would not be in addition to existing council tax?
    Willets' proposal suggests "replacing council tax and stamp duty with a proportional property tax" set at 0.5% of the property's value.
    My council tax is currently over 3.5% of value.
    So I heartily approve.
    It would massively rebalance property tax from the north to the SE. My northern 3 bed house would go from about £1200 to £700. An equivalent house in the SE would go to more like £2000.
    That might be a good thing (leveling up and a that), but wouldn't exactly be a hit in the shires...
    Makes little sense too because the SE council does not need three times as much revenue.
    You don’t send it to the councils
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,800
    Sorry but I find it a bit embarrassing that this should be the top story on the news. Maybe if it had been mentioned in passing that he'd lost the whip. If BBC news wants to chase ratings why not focus on celebrity gossip?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,617
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Both 538 and the Economist are giving the GOP a 51% chance of winning control of the Senate.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/senate/
    https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-midterms-2022/forecast/senate

    Forecast 50 50 seats, ie no change.

    If the GOP win both Chambers Trump may already be President elect whatever happens in the 2024 Presidential election as he could get Congress to overturn the EC result even if he loses
    538 forecasts 50.5 GOP seats, so it's on the edge of 51 seats.
    And if that is the case then as I said the 2024 Presidential election may be irrelevant. Trump would be President elect once the new GOP Congress comes in which he can use to overturn even an EC loss in 2024
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,465

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    1% annual tax on residential property (last transaction value).

    Only if you can defer payment to the next actual sale.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,800
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    If you thought you'd seen it all from Vladimir Solovyov, think again

    In his latest tirade, he calls Russia's invasion of Ukraine a "counterattack" launched in response to eight years of Ukrainian "genocide against those who won't accept LGBT, transgender-Nazi values"

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1587514273688854530

    Zelensky dancing and singing on Russian TV about a decade ago with Solovyov happily watching in the background

    https://twitter.com/JusticeNafo/status/1581197557853659141?s=20&t=AAN4MJTjqxeJ10ZaLAIC9w
    Zelensky's story is an interesting one. He did quite a bit of work in Russia back in the day. For a Ukrainian entertainer Moscow was like Hollywood to us. And then things got complicated. The way it's told he chose principles over money...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,465

    Sorry but I find it a bit embarrassing that this should be the top story on the news. Maybe if it had been mentioned in passing that he'd lost the whip. If BBC news wants to chase ratings why not focus on celebrity gossip?

    The irony is the BBC bigging up a story promoting I'm A Celebrity....

    Which is on ITV.

    Clueless muppets.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    If you thought you'd seen it all from Vladimir Solovyov, think again

    In his latest tirade, he calls Russia's invasion of Ukraine a "counterattack" launched in response to eight years of Ukrainian "genocide against those who won't accept LGBT, transgender-Nazi values"

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1587514273688854530

    To be fair, Goring was known for his cross dressing, so there's a (admittedly fucking tenuous) link between the Nazis and transgender folk.
    It’s hardly the most important question about Göring, but I believe his increasingly flamboyant dress sense inspired the accusations of transvestism. David Irvine suggested in his bio of HG that his taste for baby blue Reichsmarschall’s uniforms meant he was almost certainly a cross dresser, and we all know that Irvine doesn’t make stuff up.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156
    theProle said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    Keep council tax - the central obligations (social services, etc) paid for from the new central property tax. Local services (dustbins, etc) paid for by council tax. I’d go with a flat rate per head of population but I’m sure people would complain…
    I can't see that theirs any logic in keeping both taxes - ideally tax should be simpler, rather than more complicated.
    That said, one of the few virtues of council tax is that its set locally, so one can attempt to vote for parties who won't increase it. Possibly one could split a new value based tax as say 0.25% raised and distributed nationally, then up to say a further 0.5% raised and spent locally, maybe with local people required to vote to approve the local rate being increased beyond 0.25%.

    All this said, a lot of this could be fixed just by doing the wildly overdue council tax revaluation for England, and adding a load more bands at the top.
    Council tax is bastardised rubbish trying to do two things - fund local services and be somewhat proportionate to wealth. At the same time central government keeps dumping unfunded obligations on local government.

    I don’t think it’s complicated to have two payments - an annual or semi annual property tax paid to central government and a flat rate fee for service paid monthly to local government.

    Different taxes with different objectives paid to different people
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,800

    Sorry but I find it a bit embarrassing that this should be the top story on the news. Maybe if it had been mentioned in passing that he'd lost the whip. If BBC news wants to chase ratings why not focus on celebrity gossip?

    The irony is the BBC bigging up a story promoting I'm A Celebrity....

    Which is on ITV.

    Clueless muppets.
    Well to give them their due they weren't afraid to promote their rivals. But it's not a major news story.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156
    edited November 2022

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    1% annual tax on residential property (last transaction value).

    Only if you can defer payment to the next actual sale.

    I disagree. People should learn to budget for it. If everyone can defer it creates a dreadful cashflow problem for the government as well.

    Context: average house price £290k so less than £3K in annual tax. Average band D council tax of £1.5k

    If you want to make it 0.5% up to £500k and 1% above go ahead (although that’s very tempting for labour to increase in future).

    But fundamentally taxes need to go up and the wealthiest need to contribute more.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,465
    Loving the Guardian story about the planet-killer asteroid crossing Earth's orbit.

    When we are on the other side of the Sun.

    So, we will actually miss it by.....186 million miles.

    Phew, that was close!!!

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/01/huge-planet-killer-asteroid-discovered-and-its-heading-our-way
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,862

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    Speaking as someone who rents. The idea that any property tax wont be passed on to renters in the form of rent increases is for the birds. I have had landlords inform me rent is going up because the mortgage rate increased on a number of occasions. Not that I have ever had one saying "oh my mortgage got cheaper here is a reduction in rent"
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Both 538 and the Economist are giving the GOP a 51% chance of winning control of the Senate.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/senate/
    https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-midterms-2022/forecast/senate

    Forecast 50 50 seats, ie no change.

    If the GOP win both Chambers Trump may already be President elect whatever happens in the 2024 Presidential election as he could get Congress to overturn the EC result even if he loses
    538 forecasts 50.5 GOP seats, so it's on the edge of 51 seats.
    And if that is the case then as I said the 2024 Presidential election may be irrelevant. Trump would be President elect once the new GOP Congress comes in which he can use to overturn even an EC loss in 2024
    I wouldn't have thought so.

    Only a very small number of Republican Senators voted to reject EC votes last time (from memory about five Senators on most votes)

    So it's extremely unlikely 51 Republican Senators will do so next time.

    There is surely almost zero chance of Senators like Romney, Collins and Murkowski doing so.

    Even McConnell was absolutely scathing about the idea.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,465

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    1% annual tax on residential property (last transaction value).

    Only if you can defer payment to the next actual sale.

    I disagree. People should learn to budget for it. If everyone can defer it creates a dreadful cashflow problem for the government as well.


    Or.... millions of people who bought houses for buttons decades back now have to sell, in a hurry, because they don't have twenty or thirty grand a year to find.

    Crashing the housing market.

    Do you have much experience with this "politics" thing?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156
    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    Speaking as someone who rents. The idea that any property tax wont be passed on to renters in the form of rent increases is for the birds. I have had landlords inform me rent is going up because the mortgage rate increased on a number of occasions. Not that I have ever had one saying "oh my mortgage got cheaper here is a reduction in rent"
    That’s just his/her excuse though.

    Basically he is charging the maximum he can get away with and then justifying it to you that he’s not a bad person because a big boy the government made him do it
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650
    A property tax is also a proxy for an income tax, since people will stop working as much if they think their assets will be taken from them anyway. Maybe going onto early retirement a few years earlier, and paying less for housing in retirement. With less money being spent on houses, it will be harder to bring new houses into being. And so on. There's no magic money tree.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,156

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    1% annual tax on residential property (last transaction value).

    Only if you can defer payment to the next actual sale.

    I disagree. People should learn to budget for it. If everyone can defer it creates a dreadful cashflow problem for the government as well.


    Or.... millions of people who bought houses for buttons decades back now have to sell, in a hurry, because they don't have twenty or thirty grand a year to find.

    Crashing the housing market.

    Do you have much experience with this "politics" thing?
    Last transaction value not current values.

    And possibly a 10 year phase in period.

    And people paying £20-30k a year are living in £2-3m properties so are doing ok in the scheme of things.

    (FWIW this would be extremely painful for me)

    And yes - it’s politically very very difficult. But this may be the only chance to make a fundamentally sensible change like this in this generation
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,800
    I'll probably do a post tomorrow about the Russia Finland winter war.

    I have to say the clip of Solovyov on Russian TV saying he'd been conscripted is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen. Good night.
  • novanova Posts: 690

    Sorry but I find it a bit embarrassing that this should be the top story on the news. Maybe if it had been mentioned in passing that he'd lost the whip. If BBC news wants to chase ratings why not focus on celebrity gossip?

    The irony is the BBC bigging up a story promoting I'm A Celebrity....

    Which is on ITV.

    Clueless muppets.
    Well to give them their due they weren't afraid to promote their rivals. But it's not a major news story.
    It is someone who was the health minister during the bulk of the Covid pandemic, and has now been stripped of the Tory whip.

    While the programme is obviously trivial, that's surely significant news.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    1% annual tax on residential property (last transaction value).

    Only if you can defer payment to the next actual sale.

    I disagree. People should learn to budget for it. If everyone can defer it creates a dreadful cashflow problem for the government as well.


    Or.... millions of people who bought houses for buttons decades back now have to sell, in a hurry, because they don't have twenty or thirty grand a year to find.

    Crashing the housing market.

    Do you have much experience with this "politics" thing?
    Last transaction value not current values.

    And possibly a 10 year phase in period.

    And people paying £20-30k a year are living in £2-3m properties so are doing ok in the scheme of things.

    (FWIW this would be extremely painful for me)

    And yes - it’s politically very very difficult. But this may be the only chance to make a fundamentally sensible change like this in this generation
    Imagine two neighbours on a terrace of identical houses, one of whom pays over 10 times as much tax, simply because he bought in 2019 instead of the 1980s. It would be unjustifiable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,617
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Both 538 and the Economist are giving the GOP a 51% chance of winning control of the Senate.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-election-forecast/senate/
    https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-midterms-2022/forecast/senate

    Forecast 50 50 seats, ie no change.

    If the GOP win both Chambers Trump may already be President elect whatever happens in the 2024 Presidential election as he could get Congress to overturn the EC result even if he loses
    538 forecasts 50.5 GOP seats, so it's on the edge of 51 seats.
    And if that is the case then as I said the 2024 Presidential election may be irrelevant. Trump would be President elect once the new GOP Congress comes in which he can use to overturn even an EC loss in 2024
    I wouldn't have thought so.

    Only a very small number of Republican Senators voted to reject EC votes last time (from memory about five Senators on most votes)

    So it's extremely unlikely 51 Republican Senators will do so next time.

    There is surely almost zero chance of Senators like Romney, Collins and Murkowski doing so.

    Even McConnell was absolutely scathing about the idea.
    Romney is up for re election in 2024, Trumpites will almost certainly challenge him.

    If the GOP got to say 54 or 55 Senators and a House majority then Trump overturning an EC loss is very possible
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    All the great and the good are in this mini thread on the coming budget. So whilst you all here.

    what are we learning from this poll? For me it’s a poor poll. There is far too much perceived knowledge as well as too much nuance in the question. What is understood by tax? This Novembers budget will certainly contain windfall taxes on energy companies and banks, you agree? But is this what voters are thinking of when they answer tax?

    Or are voters thinking of NI rise as being tax? Or there is even an outside chance this budget will include a new property tax, is this what voters are thinking of when they answer raise tax?

    And then there is what governments actually use to fill black holes, stealth money grabs. By leaving thresholds where they were when cutting taxes, Kwasi Kwarteng’s budget knowingly raised over £20bn by stealth taxation.

    And then the actual question of the poll could be enforcing a political lie - is there an actual black hole? If you agree with Sunak there is a deficit, Can you tell us when it first became clear we had one? Why didn’t Sunak mention tax’s up to fill a £50bn deficit when he had the chance in two months of hustings? When and What created it? Expensive tax cuts by Truss? More expensive borrowing costs because of Truss? No and no.

    Truth might well be no £50bn deficit - the Sunak government are conning us. They won’t go into the commons and public with “we need billions desperately for the NHS and Schools right now, so we are putting taxes up further for it.” Sunak could do that but he fears the response “that’s because you fucked up when chancellor didn’t you, spraying money around without due care? Look at the country’s tax take already!” Hence Sunak and Hunts lie about a deficit to be filled by raising more tax - on incomes, windfalls, property, businesses, the city, and by stealth.

    We don’t need think tanks or OBR to cost this budget, I can tell you the true cost of this budget right now, two weeks beforehand - the next two years is the highest tax take ever for UK and lowest growth in G7.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,955
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    If you thought you'd seen it all from Vladimir Solovyov, think again

    In his latest tirade, he calls Russia's invasion of Ukraine a "counterattack" launched in response to eight years of Ukrainian "genocide against those who won't accept LGBT, transgender-Nazi values"

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1587514273688854530

    To be fair, Goring was known for his cross dressing, so there's a (admittedly fucking tenuous) link between the Nazis and transgender folk.
    Bunch of slackers - What about "LGBT, transgender, Nazi, Satanist, Woke, Alien, Illegal Immigrant AI" values?

    Asking for some little grey employees.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,862

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    Speaking as someone who rents. The idea that any property tax wont be passed on to renters in the form of rent increases is for the birds. I have had landlords inform me rent is going up because the mortgage rate increased on a number of occasions. Not that I have ever had one saying "oh my mortgage got cheaper here is a reduction in rent"
    That’s just his/her excuse though.

    Basically he is charging the maximum he can get away with and then justifying it to you that he’s not a bad person because a big boy the government made him do it
    Don't disagree was merely pointing out the "oh renters wouldnt have to pay it" is bollocks
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    50% tax on womens accessories would get us out of the hole the money they waste on that old shit
    Edit - even better, a loitering about browsing then prosecco lunchies tax.
    Man i think Ive solved it!
    “Man i think Ive solved it!‘

    As only a Man could.

    Being serious for a second, what are property taxes, and why haven’t they been tried in this situation. Yet.

    Lord Willetts to me, David Willetts to you, is proposing a proportional property tax.

    How do PBers feel about paying the good lords proportional property tax?

    https://fairershare.org.uk/property-tax-would-bridge-the-wealth-gap-between-ages-lord-willetts/
    Ok if im not allowed to tax lady nonsense then lets look at this thingamy.....
    It looks OK frankly as a tax raising idea, but my biggest concern is renters make no financial contribution whatsoever to their local services.
    Speaking as someone who rents. The idea that any property tax wont be passed on to renters in the form of rent increases is for the birds. I have had landlords inform me rent is going up because the mortgage rate increased on a number of occasions. Not that I have ever had one saying "oh my mortgage got cheaper here is a reduction in rent"
    That’s just his/her excuse though.

    Basically he is charging the maximum he can get away with and then justifying it to you that he’s not a bad person because a big boy the government made him do it
    Incorrect, businesses pass through tax cuts and rises to customers, like VAT. If you think taxes don't affect people's behaviour, you could just put income tax to 100% and solve every problem.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,430
    EPG said:

    A property tax is also a proxy for an income tax, since people will stop working as much if they think their assets will be taken from them anyway. Maybe going onto early retirement a few years earlier, and paying less for housing in retirement. With less money being spent on houses, it will be harder to bring new houses into being. And so on. There's no magic money tree.

    There’s no magic money tree in government going after property? Thanks for that input.

    There’s a queue of former Tory ministers arguing for the need of some form of property right now though, are you saying they are wrong?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,989
    edited November 2022

    Loving the Guardian story about the planet-killer asteroid crossing Earth's orbit.

    When we are on the other side of the Sun.

    So, we will actually miss it by.....186 million miles.

    Phew, that was close!!!

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/01/huge-planet-killer-asteroid-discovered-and-its-heading-our-way

    Hey, in galactic terms that's close. But then so is Pluto
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,631

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    1% annual tax on residential property (last transaction value).

    Only if you can defer payment to the next actual sale.

    I disagree. People should learn to budget for it. If everyone can defer it creates a dreadful cashflow problem for the government as well.


    Or.... millions of people who bought houses for buttons decades back now have to sell, in a hurry, because they don't have twenty or thirty grand a year to find.

    Crashing the housing market.

    Do you have much experience with this "politics" thing?
    Last transaction value not current values.

    And possibly a 10 year phase in period.

    And people paying £20-30k a year are living in £2-3m properties so are doing ok in the scheme of things.

    (FWIW this would be extremely painful for me)

    And yes - it’s politically very very difficult. But this may be the only chance to make a fundamentally sensible change like this in this generation
    Would this replace Council Tax or be in addition? 'Cos as a replacement it would be a 60% reduction for me...

    It is the obvious wealth tax to go for. Anything else would be unfair in many ways, or potentially avoidable.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,650

    EPG said:

    A property tax is also a proxy for an income tax, since people will stop working as much if they think their assets will be taken from them anyway. Maybe going onto early retirement a few years earlier, and paying less for housing in retirement. With less money being spent on houses, it will be harder to bring new houses into being. And so on. There's no magic money tree.

    There’s no magic money tree in government going after property? Thanks for that input.

    There’s a queue of former Tory ministers arguing for the need of some form of property right now though, are you saying they are wrong?
    I don't think they are asserting it would be costless, which is some people's assumption simply because the physically existing houses don't move.
  • novanova Posts: 690

    HYUFD said:

    @YouGov
    ·
    45m
    How should the government deficit be closed?

    All through tax rises: 14%
    Mostly tax rises: 19%
    Equally tax rises and spending cuts: 25%
    Mostly spending cuts: 9%
    All spending cuts: 8%

    As long as it is not my tax rise is the true response
    Fleece the buggers just over the economic horizon there
    So, how exactly will Sunak and Starmer governments unlock the money in property to line the government coffers? Is there a tax they can use to get away with that?
    1% annual tax on residential property (last transaction value).

    Only if you can defer payment to the next actual sale.

    I disagree. People should learn to budget for it. If everyone can defer it creates a dreadful cashflow problem for the government as well.


    Or.... millions of people who bought houses for buttons decades back now have to sell, in a hurry, because they don't have twenty or thirty grand a year to find.

    Crashing the housing market.

    Do you have much experience with this "politics" thing?
    I don't disagree with the overall point, that some people who bought a long time ago in London particularly would find it shockingly high, but...

    Even at 1%, you're talking £2-3m houses in order to pay 20-30k.

    There are well under 1m houses that are worth £1m, never mind £2-3m, and, while you will get plenty of asset rich/cash poor in that group, the majority of people in houses that are worth £2-3m didn't buy them for buttons. People with low incomes sitting on multi-million pound houses will more often that not have cashed out and moved somewhere cheaper.

    So, it's definitely not millions, and I'd guess that if we're talking about people in £2-3m houses who bought for very small amounts, it's more likely in the tens of thousands.
This discussion has been closed.