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This is what happens when you crash the economy and increase mortgage costs – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 3 in General
This is what happens when you crash the economy and increase mortgage costs – politicalbetting.com

How much sympathy, if any, do you have for Liz Truss?A great deal: 4%Some: 13%Not very much: 23%None at all: 53%https://t.co/Tci6CTdTMd pic.twitter.com/7DStnrLftc

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Comments

  • Test
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042
    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,939

    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.

    There certainly won't be many queuing up to offer £100k speaking gigs...even going the Ratner route.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,963
    There's no option in that for "fuckety-bye".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited October 25
    Remainers are less tolerant, less kind people. I knew it.

    The data has spoken
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,091

    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.

    Would her previous school be happier with an encomium as to how she owed all her success to that school? Ditto previous school, uni, etc.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450
    I think her School owes the nation an apology to be fair.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,241
    edited October 25
    I think it’s her school that owes the rest of us an apology. We’d alll be a lot better off is she’d settled for being an air stewardess.

    Ha! Beaten to it by Dixie.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,176
    dixiedean said:

    I think her School owes the nation an apology to be fair.

    She was pretty unapologetic earlier today.

    So, the feeling is mutual.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,220
    edited October 25

    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.

    A lot happens between Bake Offs these days. But Bake Off itself doesn't change. Always a signature, a technical, a showstopper in that order. Always an elimination. Always a star baker. Hollywood, Leith, Lucas, Fielding, the tent, and the voiceover guy. Bake Off.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506

    Great PB predictions that didn't quite work out number 3,865,544: when that journalist fainted in front of Liz and she looked a bit puzzled that was when the nation saw her compassionate side and would bond.

    Never really understood that. I thought it was the first sign of her looking like a rabbit in headlights.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,461

    Remainers are less tolerant, less kind people. I knew it.

    The data has spoken

    It just reflects the anger felt at the way Leavers fucked everything up and yet still call the shots
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,176

    Great PB predictions that didn't quite work out number 3,865,544: when that journalist fainted in front of Liz and she looked a bit puzzled that was when the nation saw her compassionate side and would bond.

    I'll put my hand up and admit I fell for that.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Test

    But not stet .
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Allies of Penny Mordaunt say she was offered a promotion and declined, as she is 'happy' to stay as Commons leader
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1584994529538871297
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,493
    edited October 25
    Scott_xP said:

    Allies of Penny Mordaunt say she was offered a promotion and declined, as she is 'happy' to stay as Commons leader
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1584994529538871297

    Cock!

    Or even a cock and bull story!

    How many more "cocks" to go, I can't remember?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    Scott_xP said:

    Allies of Penny Mordaunt say she was offered a promotion and declined, as she is 'happy' to stay as Commons leader
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1584994529538871297

    Yeah, no.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,300
    The housing ponzi must continue at all and any cost, even (and especially) the nation's young.

    Our leaders have now seen what happens to their ratings when you threaten house prices. Great for those who own - for those who don't however...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,176
    Scott_xP said:

    Allies of Penny Mordaunt say she was offered a promotion and declined, as she is 'happy' to stay as Commons leader
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1584994529538871297

    Oh come on.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450
    edited October 25

    Scott_xP said:

    Allies of Penny Mordaunt say she was offered a promotion and declined, as she is 'happy' to stay as Commons leader
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1584994529538871297

    Oh come on.
    Ei leen towards that view too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,220
    kyf_100 said:

    The housing ponzi must continue at all and any cost, even (and especially) the nation's young.

    Our leaders have now seen what happens to their ratings when you threaten house prices. Great for those who own - for those who don't however...

    There's a price fall coming, I think.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,607
    edited October 25
    Who is Rishi’s Willy?
    Who are his kitchen cabinet?
    Why did he humiliate Penny?

    I fear that Rishi - despite looking to reach out to all wings - looks slightly isolated unto himself.

    He’s obviously got Williamson in for factional management, but beyond that?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    A preview of the potential flash points ahead. Jayne Ozanne resigned as an equalities advisor to the govt over Kemi Badenoch’s approach to LGBT+ equality and the delayed ban to conversion therapy.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1584997961523953664
    https://twitter.com/jayneozanne/status/1584996959898595328
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,939
    edited October 25
    Scott_xP said:

    Allies of Penny Mordaunt say she was offered a promotion and declined, as she is 'happy' to stay as Commons leader
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1584994529538871297

    They offered me the England manager job for the World Cup, but I thought too easy....too many good players....
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    Roger said:

    Remainers are less tolerant, less kind people. I knew it.

    The data has spoken

    It just reflects the anger felt at the way Leavers fucked everything up and yet still call the shots
    No, Roger, the data has spoken. Remainers are out there all angry and hatey. They are probably pulling pussy cats tails. Only leaver love can save us!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,220
    edited October 25
    Scott_xP said:

    Allies of Penny Mordaunt say she was offered a promotion and declined, as she is 'happy' to stay as Commons leader
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1584994529538871297

    It's better to be an idelogical faction leader than just generally quite liked ... is what I'm taking from this.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,425
    Scott_xP said:

    A preview of the potential flash points ahead. Jayne Ozanne resigned as an equalities advisor to the govt over Kemi Badenoch’s approach to LGBT+ equality and the delayed ban to conversion therapy.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1584997961523953664
    https://twitter.com/jayneozanne/status/1584996959898595328

    You say that like it is a bad thing
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    edited October 25
    Nerdy question - is there supposed to be a King's Speech at some point? Or does a change of PM not require one?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,425
    alex_ said:

    Nerdy question - is there supposed to be a King's Speech at some point? Or does a change of PM not require one?

    He has to goto a speech therapist first surely I am sure I saw a film about it
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,300
    kinabalu said:

    kyf_100 said:

    The housing ponzi must continue at all and any cost, even (and especially) the nation's young.

    Our leaders have now seen what happens to their ratings when you threaten house prices. Great for those who own - for those who don't however...

    There's a price fall coming, I think.
    A 20% drop in the UK average house price would take us back to where we were in, er.. *checks notes* 2019.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,639
    alex_ said:

    Nerdy question - is there supposed to be a King's Speech at some point? Or does a change of PM not require one?

    When there’s a new session, which will likely be the last significant one before the election. Rishi’s big relaunch.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 784
    edited October 25
    Like clockwork, Rishi's first call is to Zelenskyy.

    In an excellent conversation with
    @RishiSunak
    we agreed to write a new chapter in 🇺🇦-🇬🇧 relations but the story is the same - full support in the face of Russian aggression. I appreciate PM’s first call to Ukraine. And always grateful for the support of the 🇬🇧 people.


    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1584999451948888064
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,571
    edited October 25
    On topic. Very much on topic.

    I am still researching what actually happened and piecing it together for lessons learned. And I’m coming to the opposite take to what the generally accepted wisdom is here.

    The hugely expensive Energy Freeze bucking the market for two years, that is now history, was actually the cuckoo in Liz Truss IEA designed nest of policies - Trussnomics is actually closer and more on the ball with the change markets have moved to now two decades of economic orthodoxy is coming to an end, and where markets are now certain to move UK government, than Sunak, Hunt and Starmer all are.

    I think it is almost certain to happen that your header TSE will date, history books will tell it completely the other way around. if people feel Truss crashed the economy (she certainly did not crash the whole thing) this view will change when those who told her she was wrong, properly crash the economy themselves.

    To what degree Truss is vindicated as ahead of the game depends to what degree Sunak and Starmer (I still think change of government nailed on as voters have already made their minds up) adopt Trussnomics. If they don’t at all then a proper crash of the economy, Greek Style, is definitely going to happen in the UK at some point, the markets have decided on that.

    But more likely we will get two short lived austerity governments now. Especially painful for Labour out of office for so long, face five years basically implementing austerity 2.0 and then thrown out for being hated for that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,939
    edited October 25
    Spitting Image is CANCELLED after just two seasons

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11352773/Spitting-Image-CANCELLED-just-two-seasons.html

    It was absolute shit.
  • Spitting Image is CANCELLED after just two seasons

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11352773/Spitting-Image-CANCELLED-just-two-seasons.html

    It was absolute shit.

    Made Westworld look great.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,939

    Spitting Image is CANCELLED after just two seasons

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11352773/Spitting-Image-CANCELLED-just-two-seasons.html

    It was absolute shit.

    Made Westworld look great.
    Woooo steady on there....
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,576
    edited October 25
    Here's that Seneca quote LT was so familiar with and slightly messed up. It's Ad Lucilium Epistolae Morales 104,sec 26. At Roundhay School they study little else.

    [25] Quid est, obsecro te, Lucili, cur timeat laborem vir, mortem homo ? Totiens mihi occurrunt isti, qui non putant fieri posse quicquid facere non possunt, et aiunt nos loqui maiora quam quae humana natura sustineat. [26] At quanto ego de illis melius existimo ! Ipsi quoque haec possunt facere, sed nolunt. Denique quem umquam ista destituere temptantem ? Cui non faciliora apparuere in actu ? Non quia difficilia sunt, non audemus, sed quia non audemus, difficilia sunt.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,220

    Remainers are less tolerant, less kind people. I knew it.

    The data has spoken

    I did feel for her. Posted as much. I'm a softy and proud of it.

    However if her mien on leaving today - water off a ducks and no shits given - is a true reflection of the inner person, I take it all back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855

    Spitting Image is CANCELLED after just two seasons

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11352773/Spitting-Image-CANCELLED-just-two-seasons.html

    It was absolute shit.

    I've had a nice pot noodle, but I've never 'ad a poodle and I've never seen a decent show from the Spitting Image revival.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,571
    edited October 25
    kinabalu said:

    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.

    A lot happens between Bake Offs these days. But Bake Off itself doesn't change. Always a signature, a technical, a showstopper in that order. Always an elimination. Always a star baker. Hollywood, Leith, Lucas, Fielding, the tent, and the voiceover guy. Bake Off.
    I want to be on bake off. Get me on bake off.

    They put something hot in a freezer and didn’t realise it would warm the freezer 🤦‍♀️

    I have also finished The Cook of Castamar. Absolutely brilliant. Infinitely better than the Empress.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,176
    Scott_xP said:

    A preview of the potential flash points ahead. Jayne Ozanne resigned as an equalities advisor to the govt over Kemi Badenoch’s approach to LGBT+ equality and the delayed ban to conversion therapy.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1584997961523953664
    https://twitter.com/jayneozanne/status/1584996959898595328

    No-one gives a fuck about Jayne Ozanne.

    The tide is going out on Stonewall dogma and trans activist bullies and fanatics.

    They're losing.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,607
    How Britain Became One of the Poorest Countries in Western Europe.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,576
    alex_ said:

    Nerdy question - is there supposed to be a King's Speech at some point? Or does a change of PM not require one?

    No. Opening of a new session and after a GE only.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited October 25
    kinabalu said:

    Remainers are less tolerant, less kind people. I knew it.

    The data has spoken

    I did feel for her. Posted as much. I'm a softy and proud of it.

    However if her mien on leaving today - water off a ducks and no shits given - is a true reflection of the inner person, I take it all back.
    Don't worry, she will be back with the Turnip Taliban soon, we shall deal with her...........
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,042

    Spitting Image is CANCELLED after just two seasons

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11352773/Spitting-Image-CANCELLED-just-two-seasons.html

    It was absolute shit.

    Made Westworld look great.
    Series 2 Westworld onwards, of course.

    Series 1 was great TV.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644

    Spitting Image is CANCELLED after just two seasons

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11352773/Spitting-Image-CANCELLED-just-two-seasons.html

    It was absolute shit.

    Made Westworld look great.
    Woooo steady on there....
    Quite. Season one of Westworld was awesome.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    edited October 25
    algarkirk said:

    alex_ said:

    Nerdy question - is there supposed to be a King's Speech at some point? Or does a change of PM not require one?

    No. Opening of a new session and after a GE only.

    So existing bills in the pipeline just roll on regardless? Of course i understand that Sunak can call for a pro-rogation and new session whenever he wants. But the fact it is a new Government doesn't affect the status of what's happening at the moment?

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,864

    What a stupid survey.

    In what world is the question even unbiased: How much sympathy, if any, do you have for Liz Truss?

    The question is designed to elicit the answers it got.

    As it happens, I feel sorry for Liz Truss.

    She was out of her depth and probably neuro-divergent.

    Politics was a poor career choice for her (though to be sure that goes for most of the House of Commons).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,939
    edited October 25
    That Newzoids programme was better than the Spitting Image reboot.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,735

    On topic. Very much on topic.

    I am still researching what actually happened and piecing it together for lessons learned. And I’m coming to the opposite take to what the generally accepted wisdom is here.

    The hugely expensive Energy Freeze bucking the market for two years, that is now history, was actually the cuckoo in Liz Truss IEA designed nest of policies - Trussnomics is actually closer and more on the ball with the change markets have moved to now two decades of economic orthodoxy is coming to an end, and where markets are now certain to move UK government, than Sunak, Hunt and Starmer all are.

    I think it is almost certain to happen that your header TSE will date, history books will tell it completely the other way around. if people feel Truss crashed the economy (she certainly did not crash the whole thing) this view will change when those who told her she was wrong, properly crash the economy themselves.

    To what degree Truss is vindicated as ahead of the game depends to what degree Sunak and Starmer (I still think change of government nailed on as voters have already made their minds up) adopt Trussnomics. If they don’t at all then a proper crash of the economy, Greek Style, is definitely going to happen in the UK at some point, the markets have decided on that.

    But more likely we will get two short lived austerity governments now. Especially painful for Labour out of office for so long, face five years basically implementing austerity 2.0 and then thrown out for being hated for that.

    Nah. Labour will have the perfect excuse to tax the wealthy. All will be well.

    Truss will be forever seen as the worst PM ever. Sad for her but she's only got herself to blame..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,176

    Who is Rishi’s Willy?
    Who are his kitchen cabinet?
    Why did he humiliate Penny?

    I fear that Rishi - despite looking to reach out to all wings - looks slightly isolated unto himself.

    He’s obviously got Williamson in for factional management, but beyond that?

    All good questions.

    He seems to have multiple Willys.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    On topic. Very much on topic.

    I am still researching what actually happened and piecing it together for lessons learned. And I’m coming to the opposite take to what the generally accepted wisdom is here.

    The hugely expensive Energy Freeze bucking the market for two years, that is now history, was actually the cuckoo in Liz Truss IEA designed nest of policies - Trussnomics is actually closer and more on the ball with the change markets have moved to now two decades of economic orthodoxy is coming to an end, and where markets are now certain to move UK government, than Sunak, Hunt and Starmer all are.

    I think it is almost certain to happen that your header TSE will date, history books will tell it completely the other way around. if people feel Truss crashed the economy (she certainly did not crash the whole thing) this view will change when those who told her she was wrong, properly crash the economy themselves.

    To what degree Truss is vindicated as ahead of the game depends to what degree Sunak and Starmer (I still think change of government nailed on as voters have already made their minds up) adopt Trussnomics. If they don’t at all then a proper crash of the economy, Greek Style, is definitely going to happen in the UK at some point, the markets have decided on that.

    But more likely we will get two short lived austerity governments now. Especially painful for Labour out of office for so long, face five years basically implementing austerity 2.0 and then thrown out for being hated for that.

    We are all going to come round to the view that borrowing to fund tax cuts is sensible?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    Spitting Image is CANCELLED after just two seasons

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11352773/Spitting-Image-CANCELLED-just-two-seasons.html

    It was absolute shit.

    It peaked in the original when they revealed Thatch was a replacement. The original was just a lovely Lincolnshire lass in a floral dress.
    Or when Kinnocks shadow cabinet woke up with hangovers from celebrating in 92 and realised they didnt win
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,220

    kinabalu said:

    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.

    A lot happens between Bake Offs these days. But Bake Off itself doesn't change. Always a signature, a technical, a showstopper in that order. Always an elimination. Always a star baker. Hollywood, Leith, Lucas, Fielding, the tent, and the voiceover guy. Bake Off.
    I want to be on bake off. Get me on bake off.

    They put something hot in a freezer and didn’t realise it would warm the freezer 🤦‍♀️
    Yes, apply if you have the skills and also the nerve to cope with live tv and 20m watching.

    Kevin gone. Right decision imo. Always mid division and no chance of winning so best to end it now.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,241
    kinabalu said:

    Remainers are less tolerant, less kind people. I knew it.

    The data has spoken

    I did feel for her. Posted as much. I'm a softy and proud of it.

    However if her mien on leaving today - water off a ducks and no shits given - is a true reflection of the inner person, I take it all back.
    And besides, as I noted earlier, makes her kids walk while she gets a lift.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,607

    Who is Rishi’s Willy?
    Who are his kitchen cabinet?
    Why did he humiliate Penny?

    I fear that Rishi - despite looking to reach out to all wings - looks slightly isolated unto himself.

    He’s obviously got Williamson in for factional management, but beyond that?

    All good questions.

    He seems to have multiple Willys.
    That means no Willy.
    Who, really, are his praetorian guard?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,735

    Great PB predictions that didn't quite work out number 3,865,544: when that journalist fainted in front of Liz and she looked a bit puzzled that was when the nation saw her compassionate side and would bond.

    I'll put my hand up and admit I fell for that.
    Did we ever work out what 'urgent business' it was that prevented Liz from facing Starmer's Urgent Question?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,927
    edited October 25
    @kle4 It looks like the 23rd full member of the Cabinet is Victoria Prentis (Attorney General).

    On both Number 10 twitter and Gov.uk Ministerial Appointments list there is no extra sentence saying she will attend Cabinet so looks like she is a full member.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ministerial-appointments-25-october-2022
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,963
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.

    A lot happens between Bake Offs these days. But Bake Off itself doesn't change. Always a signature, a technical, a showstopper in that order. Always an elimination. Always a star baker. Hollywood, Leith, Lucas, Fielding, the tent, and the voiceover guy. Bake Off.
    I want to be on bake off. Get me on bake off.

    They put something hot in a freezer and didn’t realise it would warm the freezer 🤦‍♀️
    Yes, apply if you have the skills and also the nerve to cope with live tv and 20m watching.

    Kevin gone. Right decision imo. Always mid division and no chance of winning so best to end it now.
    Noel Fielding saying "shit just got real" tonight (with the shit obviously bleeped) is my favourite Bake Off moment in some time now. I don't know why it made me laugh so hard.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855

    Who is Rishi’s Willy?
    Who are his kitchen cabinet?
    Why did he humiliate Penny?

    I fear that Rishi - despite looking to reach out to all wings - looks slightly isolated unto himself.

    He’s obviously got Williamson in for factional management, but beyond that?

    All good questions.

    He seems to have multiple Willys.
    Well, he's got plenty of cocks around him.

    But in answer to the first question, it's fairly obviously Hunt, who is currently unsackable and in control of all spending. Also Wallace is effectively independent within reason.

    There are no people who serve only at his pleasure as there was in Johnson's cabinet, including Sunak himself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855

    Great PB predictions that didn't quite work out number 3,865,544: when that journalist fainted in front of Liz and she looked a bit puzzled that was when the nation saw her compassionate side and would bond.

    I'll put my hand up and admit I fell for that.
    Did we ever work out what 'urgent business' it was that prevented Liz from facing Starmer's Urgent Question?
    Well, we know she wasn't hiding under the desk.

    So presumably she just couldn't be bothered.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,807
    She got her photo on the Downing Street staircase for remarkably little work.

    Meanwhile, we just have to hope that this new guy surprises on the upside. Leon hasn’t predicted it, so we’re still in with a chance….
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,571
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.

    A lot happens between Bake Offs these days. But Bake Off itself doesn't change. Always a signature, a technical, a showstopper in that order. Always an elimination. Always a star baker. Hollywood, Leith, Lucas, Fielding, the tent, and the voiceover guy. Bake Off.
    I want to be on bake off. Get me on bake off.

    They put something hot in a freezer and didn’t realise it would warm the freezer 🤦‍♀️
    Yes, apply if you have the skills and also the nerve to cope with live tv and 20m watching.

    Kevin gone. Right decision imo. Always mid division and no chance of winning so best to end it now.
    I can at least see a pathway opening up now, bumming around after art school - charity work - Bake Off fame - Primeminster of UK.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,000

    On topic. Very much on topic.

    I am still researching what actually happened and piecing it together for lessons learned. And I’m coming to the opposite take to what the generally accepted wisdom is here.

    The hugely expensive Energy Freeze bucking the market for two years, that is now history, was actually the cuckoo in Liz Truss IEA designed nest of policies - Trussnomics is actually closer and more on the ball with the change markets have moved to now two decades of economic orthodoxy is coming to an end, and where markets are now certain to move UK government, than Sunak, Hunt and Starmer all are.

    I think it is almost certain to happen that your header TSE will date, history books will tell it completely the other way around. if people feel Truss crashed the economy (she certainly did not crash the whole thing) this view will change when those who told her she was wrong, properly crash the economy themselves.

    To what degree Truss is vindicated as ahead of the game depends to what degree Sunak and Starmer (I still think change of government nailed on as voters have already made their minds up) adopt Trussnomics. If they don’t at all then a proper crash of the economy, Greek Style, is definitely going to happen in the UK at some point, the markets have decided on that.

    But more likely we will get two short lived austerity governments now. Especially painful for Labour out of office for so long, face five years basically implementing austerity 2.0 and then thrown out for being hated for that.

    Not for the first time, I don't agree at all.

    So called "Trussnomics" (your term, not mine) or if you prefer good old fashioned supply side economics failed partially because of the way it was done but it also failed because it's not what people want and it's not how people think any more.

    It's not 1980 - waving tax cuts like a magic wand might have worked then but the world now is predicated on a notion (some may call it strange or "woke") of fairness. The ideology of trickle-down (if you make the rich much richer you'll make the poor a little richer) no longer resonates on any level. Perhaps it's a result of the 1980s experience or the pandemic or a myriad of other factors but it's a product which can no longer be sold.

    If anything and there's extensive polling supporting this, the mood is, yes, cut income tax for the poorest but tax the actual wealth of the richest. Some on here may find that repellent or impractical or both but that's where the majority is - if you like, the Robin Hood Tree (as the Magic Money Tree has been cut down ad its stump pulled out and burnt).

    In short, you make everyone richer by making the rich poorer - that's quite appealing as a notion for all its issues.

    The question is how will this Government and its Labour successor seek to re-balance the public finances and the inevitability is a mix of higher taxes and spending cuts. In 2010, for every £5 cut from spending, £1 was raised from higher taxes - it will be interesting to see if Sunak, once the protege of Osborne, seeks to follow a similar direction but the notion of a bloated public sector just doesn't fit the facts.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,864
    Jonathan said:

    At least Liz Truss sacked Braverman. That’s one up on Rishi.

    Did Truss sack her?

    I thought Braverman resigned, which is different.

    I agree Truss' premiership was so confused it is hard to make out exactly what did happen at some points.

  • What a stupid survey.

    In what world is the question even unbiased: How much sympathy, if any, do you have for Liz Truss?

    The question is designed to elicit the answers it got.

    As it happens, I feel sorry for Liz Truss.

    She was out of her depth and probably neuro-divergent.

    Politics was a poor career choice for her (though to be sure that goes for most of the House of Commons).

    Exactly... I like Liz Truss and fit nicely in the 9% Conservatives with a great deal of sympathy.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,576
    alex_ said:

    algarkirk said:

    alex_ said:

    Nerdy question - is there supposed to be a King's Speech at some point? Or does a change of PM not require one?

    No. Opening of a new session and after a GE only.

    So existing bills in the pipeline just roll on regardless? Of course i understand that Sunak can call for a pro-rogation and new session whenever he wants. But the fact it is a new Government doesn't affect the status of what's happening at the moment?

    Yes. The speech opens a parliamentary session and a new parliament following a GE. Constitutionally the rumbustious ups and downs of government need make no difference as all that is occurring is the same parliament (elected 2019) having confidence in a different set up governmentally. It is equally possible during a single 5 year parliament, if numbers allow and loyalties shift, to change the party of government without either a new election or a King's speech.

    Parliament is sovereign, government isn't.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    MikeL said:

    kle4 It looks like the 23rd full member of the Cabinet is Victoria Prentis (Attorney General).

    On both Number 10 twitter and Gov.uk Ministerial Appointments list there is no extra sentence saying she will attend Cabinet so looks like she is a full member.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ministerial-appointments-25-october-2022

    A promotion for the role then! Curious. But you are right it doesn't make that distinction.
  • Who is Rishi’s Willy?
    Who are his kitchen cabinet?
    Why did he humiliate Penny?

    I fear that Rishi - despite looking to reach out to all wings - looks slightly isolated unto himself.

    He’s obviously got Williamson in for factional management, but beyond that?

    All good questions.

    He seems to have multiple Willys.
    That means no Willy.
    Who, really, are his praetorian guard?
    He's not had time to gather one. He's been an MP for seven years, which is no time at all to develop Deep Mateship with anyone really. Especially in a Conservative Party that's still pretty toxic and hateful.

    Besides, the best WIlly is someone a bit older than you, on the gentle beginning of the downwave of their career, experienced but not a rival. The Hague to your Cameron. And anyone like that (May?!) has been cast into the depths of the eternal fire.

    Gove, perhaps...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,220

    On topic. Very much on topic.

    I am still researching what actually happened and piecing it together for lessons learned. And I’m coming to the opposite take to what the generally accepted wisdom is here.

    The hugely expensive Energy Freeze bucking the market for two years, that is now history, was actually the cuckoo in Liz Truss IEA designed nest of policies - Trussnomics is actually closer and more on the ball with the change markets have moved to now two decades of economic orthodoxy is coming to an end, and where markets are now certain to move UK government, than Sunak, Hunt and Starmer all are.

    I think it is almost certain to happen that your header TSE will date, history books will tell it completely the other way around. if people feel Truss crashed the economy (she certainly did not crash the whole thing) this view will change when those who told her she was wrong, properly crash the economy themselves.

    To what degree Truss is vindicated as ahead of the game depends to what degree Sunak and Starmer (I still think change of government nailed on as voters have already made their minds up) adopt Trussnomics. If they don’t at all then a proper crash of the economy, Greek Style, is definitely going to happen in the UK at some point, the markets have decided on that.

    But more likely we will get two short lived austerity governments now. Especially painful for Labour out of office for so long, face five years basically implementing austerity 2.0 and then thrown out for being hated for that.

    I think it was the hubris and incompetence that spooked the markets, not any particular policy.

    Trussonomics was soundbites plus magical thinking. Don't think it really merits much analysis tbh.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,000

    Spitting Image is CANCELLED after just two seasons

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11352773/Spitting-Image-CANCELLED-just-two-seasons.html

    It was absolute shit.

    To a point - it was far too nice to Boris Johnson and the Conservative Government.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,046
    I have sympathy for her, she could have done that budget any time from 2010 until this year and gotten away without the interest rate shock.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660

    Scott_xP said:

    A preview of the potential flash points ahead. Jayne Ozanne resigned as an equalities advisor to the govt over Kemi Badenoch’s approach to LGBT+ equality and the delayed ban to conversion therapy.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1584997961523953664
    https://twitter.com/jayneozanne/status/1584996959898595328

    No-one gives a fuck about Jayne Ozanne.

    The tide is going out on Stonewall dogma and trans activist bullies and fanatics.

    They're losing.
    The final defeat of rainbow lanyards is in sight.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465

    Jonathan said:

    At least Liz Truss sacked Braverman. That’s one up on Rishi.

    Did Truss sack her?

    I thought Braverman resigned, which is different.

    I agree Truss' premiership was so confused it is hard to make out exactly what did happen at some points.
    It's not always different - lots of reports that she was forced to resign, ie sacked.

    Certainly Braverman played it as a choice - 'I am choosing to tender my resignation' is how she put it, rather than 'You asked me to resign'.

    It's nice she thinks taking responsibility need take less than a week though.

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    edited October 25
    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    kle4 It looks like the 23rd full member of the Cabinet is Victoria Prentis (Attorney General).

    On both Number 10 twitter and Gov.uk Ministerial Appointments list there is no extra sentence saying she will attend Cabinet so looks like she is a full member.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ministerial-appointments-25-october-2022

    A promotion for the role then! Curious. But you are right it doesn't make that distinction.
    I think the Attorney General attends cabinet by default, don't they? So there is no need to state it when appointing (unlike with all the other ministers made to sound more important than they are in this way.

    Also, i'm not sure what "attends cabinet" technically means. I said earlier that i don't think it means everyone turns up every time (therefore requiring an enormous table). I think it's only when required, so at any one time only one or two might be in the room.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,220

    Who is Rishi’s Willy?
    Who are his kitchen cabinet?
    Why did he humiliate Penny?

    I fear that Rishi - despite looking to reach out to all wings - looks slightly isolated unto himself.

    He’s obviously got Williamson in for factional management, but beyond that?

    All good questions.

    He seems to have multiple Willys.
    That means no Willy.
    Who, really, are his praetorian guard?
    He's not had time to gather one. He's been an MP for seven years, which is no time at all to develop Deep Mateship with anyone really. Especially in a Conservative Party that's still pretty toxic and hateful.

    Besides, the best WIlly is someone a bit older than you, on the gentle beginning of the downwave of their career, experienced but not a rival. The Hague to your Cameron. And anyone like that (May?!) has been cast into the depths of the eternal fire.

    Gove, perhaps...
    Yes I can quite easily see Gove as a Willy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,735
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.

    A lot happens between Bake Offs these days. But Bake Off itself doesn't change. Always a signature, a technical, a showstopper in that order. Always an elimination. Always a star baker. Hollywood, Leith, Lucas, Fielding, the tent, and the voiceover guy. Bake Off.
    I want to be on bake off. Get me on bake off.

    They put something hot in a freezer and didn’t realise it would warm the freezer 🤦‍♀️
    Yes, apply if you have the skills and also the nerve to cope with live tv and 20m watching.

    Kevin gone. Right decision imo. Always mid division and no chance of winning so best to end it now.
    It's not 'live' TV though is it?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    kinabalu said:

    On topic. Very much on topic.

    I am still researching what actually happened and piecing it together for lessons learned. And I’m coming to the opposite take to what the generally accepted wisdom is here.

    The hugely expensive Energy Freeze bucking the market for two years, that is now history, was actually the cuckoo in Liz Truss IEA designed nest of policies - Trussnomics is actually closer and more on the ball with the change markets have moved to now two decades of economic orthodoxy is coming to an end, and where markets are now certain to move UK government, than Sunak, Hunt and Starmer all are.

    I think it is almost certain to happen that your header TSE will date, history books will tell it completely the other way around. if people feel Truss crashed the economy (she certainly did not crash the whole thing) this view will change when those who told her she was wrong, properly crash the economy themselves.

    To what degree Truss is vindicated as ahead of the game depends to what degree Sunak and Starmer (I still think change of government nailed on as voters have already made their minds up) adopt Trussnomics. If they don’t at all then a proper crash of the economy, Greek Style, is definitely going to happen in the UK at some point, the markets have decided on that.

    But more likely we will get two short lived austerity governments now. Especially painful for Labour out of office for so long, face five years basically implementing austerity 2.0 and then thrown out for being hated for that.

    I think it was the hubris and incompetence that spooked the markets, not any particular policy.

    Trussonomics was soundbites plus magical thinking. Don't think it really merits much analysis tbh.
    It was the lack of forecasts, and/or forward projections of what the proposals would supposedly deliver and what they would mean for public finances. Along with the general "we don't care what the markets do, we're doing it anyway, suck on that". So they did.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A preview of the potential flash points ahead. Jayne Ozanne resigned as an equalities advisor to the govt over Kemi Badenoch’s approach to LGBT+ equality and the delayed ban to conversion therapy.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1584997961523953664
    https://twitter.com/jayneozanne/status/1584996959898595328

    No-one gives a fuck about Jayne Ozanne.

    The tide is going out on Stonewall dogma and trans activist bullies and fanatics.

    They're losing.
    The final defeat of rainbow lanyards is in sight.
    You think? Not where I work it isn’t.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450
    stodge said:

    On topic. Very much on topic.

    I am still researching what actually happened and piecing it together for lessons learned. And I’m coming to the opposite take to what the generally accepted wisdom is here.

    The hugely expensive Energy Freeze bucking the market for two years, that is now history, was actually the cuckoo in Liz Truss IEA designed nest of policies - Trussnomics is actually closer and more on the ball with the change markets have moved to now two decades of economic orthodoxy is coming to an end, and where markets are now certain to move UK government, than Sunak, Hunt and Starmer all are.

    I think it is almost certain to happen that your header TSE will date, history books will tell it completely the other way around. if people feel Truss crashed the economy (she certainly did not crash the whole thing) this view will change when those who told her she was wrong, properly crash the economy themselves.

    To what degree Truss is vindicated as ahead of the game depends to what degree Sunak and Starmer (I still think change of government nailed on as voters have already made their minds up) adopt Trussnomics. If they don’t at all then a proper crash of the economy, Greek Style, is definitely going to happen in the UK at some point, the markets have decided on that.

    But more likely we will get two short lived austerity governments now. Especially painful for Labour out of office for so long, face five years basically implementing austerity 2.0 and then thrown out for being hated for that.

    Not for the first time, I don't agree at all.

    So called "Trussnomics" (your term, not mine) or if you prefer good old fashioned supply side economics failed partially because of the way it was done but it also failed because it's not what people want and it's not how people think any more.

    It's not 1980 - waving tax cuts like a magic wand might have worked then but the world now is predicated on a notion (some may call it strange or "woke") of fairness. The ideology of trickle-down (if you make the rich much richer you'll make the poor a little richer) no longer resonates on any level. Perhaps it's a result of the 1980s experience or the pandemic or a myriad of other factors but it's a product which can no longer be sold.

    If anything and there's extensive polling supporting this, the mood is, yes, cut income tax for the poorest but tax the actual wealth of the richest. Some on here may find that repellent or impractical or both but that's where the majority is - if you like, the Robin Hood Tree (as the Magic Money Tree has been cut down ad its stump pulled out and burnt).

    In short, you make everyone richer by making the rich poorer - that's quite appealing as a notion for all its issues.

    The question is how will this Government and its Labour successor seek to re-balance the public finances and the inevitability is a mix of higher taxes and spending cuts. In 2010, for every £5 cut from spending, £1 was raised from higher taxes - it will be interesting to see if Sunak, once the protege of Osborne, seeks to follow a similar direction but the notion of a bloated public sector just doesn't fit the facts.
    It's the result of experience.
    Making the rich much richer hasn't made the poor better off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    Given Truss gets £115,000 a year as an ex PM plus her MPs salary plus her husband is a high earning accountant it is not surprising the public are not that greatly in sympathy for her. Her government's mini budget cost her her PM job but she will still be comfortably off
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    edited October 25
    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    kle4 It looks like the 23rd full member of the Cabinet is Victoria Prentis (Attorney General).

    On both Number 10 twitter and Gov.uk Ministerial Appointments list there is no extra sentence saying she will attend Cabinet so looks like she is a full member.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ministerial-appointments-25-october-2022

    A promotion for the role then! Curious. But you are right it doesn't make that distinction.
    I think the Attorney General attends cabinet by default, don't they? So there is no need to state it when appointing (unlike with all the other ministers made to sound more important than they are in this way.

    Also, i'm not sure what "attends cabinet" technically means. I said earlier that i don't think it means everyone turns up every time (therefore requiring an enormous table). I think it's only when required, so at any one time only one or two might be in the room.
    The last few AGs at the least have been listed as 'attending Cabinet' rather than being Cabinet Members, on the government's own sites.

    Like you I don't really know what that means. Perhaps because the number of other ministers was such they were not allowed to list the AG as a full member, but now they can as there is space. But there must be a reason they did not list it as a full member.

    See the last one

    The Rt Hon Michael Ellis QC MP @Michael_Ellis1
    has been appointed Attorney General @AttorneyGeneral
    .
    He will attend Cabinet
    .

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1567266662801448961?cxt=HHwWgoC9ibyuhsArAAAA

    See also I don't think they announced his sacking/resignation along with the full Cabinet who were out, like JRM, they just replaced.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,220

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Remarkable to think that as we watched Bake Off last week, she was still Prime Minister.

    Now she has been erased into a "non-person" with an alacrity that would make Stalin blush.

    A lot happens between Bake Offs these days. But Bake Off itself doesn't change. Always a signature, a technical, a showstopper in that order. Always an elimination. Always a star baker. Hollywood, Leith, Lucas, Fielding, the tent, and the voiceover guy. Bake Off.
    I want to be on bake off. Get me on bake off.

    They put something hot in a freezer and didn’t realise it would warm the freezer 🤦‍♀️
    Yes, apply if you have the skills and also the nerve to cope with live tv and 20m watching.

    Kevin gone. Right decision imo. Always mid division and no chance of winning so best to end it now.
    Noel Fielding saying "shit just got real" tonight (with the shit obviously bleeped) is my favourite Bake Off moment in some time now. I don't know why it made me laugh so hard.
    He's having a good series, I think.

    It's strange how the prog weaves its spell. I'm not a 'reality tv' person at all, but this one I never miss.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,046

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A preview of the potential flash points ahead. Jayne Ozanne resigned as an equalities advisor to the govt over Kemi Badenoch’s approach to LGBT+ equality and the delayed ban to conversion therapy.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1584997961523953664
    https://twitter.com/jayneozanne/status/1584996959898595328

    No-one gives a fuck about Jayne Ozanne.

    The tide is going out on Stonewall dogma and trans activist bullies and fanatics.

    They're losing.
    The final defeat of rainbow lanyards is in sight.
    You think? Not where I work it isn’t.
    It's an ultra-cheap signal to encourage a percentage of legacy staff to shuffle off into early retirement.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450
    alex_ said:

    kinabalu said:

    On topic. Very much on topic.

    I am still researching what actually happened and piecing it together for lessons learned. And I’m coming to the opposite take to what the generally accepted wisdom is here.

    The hugely expensive Energy Freeze bucking the market for two years, that is now history, was actually the cuckoo in Liz Truss IEA designed nest of policies - Trussnomics is actually closer and more on the ball with the change markets have moved to now two decades of economic orthodoxy is coming to an end, and where markets are now certain to move UK government, than Sunak, Hunt and Starmer all are.

    I think it is almost certain to happen that your header TSE will date, history books will tell it completely the other way around. if people feel Truss crashed the economy (she certainly did not crash the whole thing) this view will change when those who told her she was wrong, properly crash the economy themselves.

    To what degree Truss is vindicated as ahead of the game depends to what degree Sunak and Starmer (I still think change of government nailed on as voters have already made their minds up) adopt Trussnomics. If they don’t at all then a proper crash of the economy, Greek Style, is definitely going to happen in the UK at some point, the markets have decided on that.

    But more likely we will get two short lived austerity governments now. Especially painful for Labour out of office for so long, face five years basically implementing austerity 2.0 and then thrown out for being hated for that.

    I think it was the hubris and incompetence that spooked the markets, not any particular policy.

    Trussonomics was soundbites plus magical thinking. Don't think it really merits much analysis tbh.
    It was the lack of forecasts, and/or forward projections of what the proposals would supposedly deliver and what they would mean for public finances. Along with the general "we don't care what the markets do, we're doing it anyway, suck on that". So they did.
    It wasn't that they didn't care.
    They didn't countenance at all the possibility.
    See also the next day's headlines and comments from the right wing commentators.
    It was a spectacular triumph to be repeated as soon as possible by all governments envious they hadn't thought of it first.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,278

    Spitting Image is CANCELLED after just two seasons

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11352773/Spitting-Image-CANCELLED-just-two-seasons.html

    It was absolute shit.

    It peaked in the original when they revealed Thatch was a replacement. The original was just a lovely Lincolnshire lass in a floral dress.
    Or when Kinnocks shadow cabinet woke up with hangovers from celebrating in 92 and realised they didnt win
    Diana as Number 6 in The Prisoner another good one.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    EPG said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A preview of the potential flash points ahead. Jayne Ozanne resigned as an equalities advisor to the govt over Kemi Badenoch’s approach to LGBT+ equality and the delayed ban to conversion therapy.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1584997961523953664
    https://twitter.com/jayneozanne/status/1584996959898595328

    No-one gives a fuck about Jayne Ozanne.

    The tide is going out on Stonewall dogma and trans activist bullies and fanatics.

    They're losing.
    The final defeat of rainbow lanyards is in sight.
    You think? Not where I work it isn’t.
    It's an ultra-cheap signal to encourage a percentage of legacy staff to shuffle off into early retirement.
    No chance for me, just remortgaging to build an extension… Besides, I love my job.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,000
    Evening all :)

    The point about today is the strength of Sunak's position which is analogous to him having won a General Election. There is no way on God's green earth the Conservative Parliamentary party is going to put us through a third leadership election before a General Election so Sunak is absolutely safe until the verdict of the electorate.

    That means he has been able to keep his friends close and his enemies closer effectively muzzling them by collective responsibility. The likes of Braverman, Badenoch and any other aspiring leader are inside and if it is seen that their behaviour is a factor in a heavy defeat at the election, the membership won't take kindly.

    Some on here seem to Sunak can turn this round as John Major did after becoming Prime Minister. It's not impossible and indeed there are parallels - economic headwinds and a war but that's probably where it stops. The way the Conservatives have comported themselves since early July won't soon be forgotten even if Sunak does restore some confidence and poll ratings.

    The other point is this may well not be the final team which goes into the next election - a further reshuffle after the local elections next May (especially if they are disappointing) may yet see some newer blood from the backbenches given a chance.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    Given Truss gets £115,000 a year as an ex PM plus her MPs salary plus her husband is a high earning accountant it is not surprising the public are not that greatly in sympathy for her. Her government's mini budget cost her her PM job but she will still be comfortably off

    The 115k is the expenses of the office of an ex PM. I don't see her putting too many claims in.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,046
    Scott_xP said:
    Pity it's clearly nonsensical, migrants aren't camping in Calais because they want to flee a rich country to get to a poor country, nor do young Spaniards and Italians flock to London because the streets of Lisbon are paved with gold.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    1h
    If you voted for Boris Johnson & the Conservatives in 2019 you should feel happy today. You have a pro-Brexit PM who is prioritising the 2019 manifesto, a serious mind on Levelling Up, a no nonsense Home Sec on migration and a Cabinet with lots of Leavers
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,607
    EPG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Pity it's clearly nonsensical, migrants aren't camping in Calais because they want to flee a rich country to get to a poor country, nor do young Spaniards and Italians flock to London because the streets of Lisbon are paved with gold.
    You didn’t read it, did you?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,571
    Ishmael_Z said:

    On topic. Very much on topic.

    I am still researching what actually happened and piecing it together for lessons learned. And I’m coming to the opposite take to what the generally accepted wisdom is here.

    The hugely expensive Energy Freeze bucking the market for two years, that is now history, was actually the cuckoo in Liz Truss IEA designed nest of policies - Trussnomics is actually closer and more on the ball with the change markets have moved to now two decades of economic orthodoxy is coming to an end, and where markets are now certain to move UK government, than Sunak, Hunt and Starmer all are.

    I think it is almost certain to happen that your header TSE will date, history books will tell it completely the other way around. if people feel Truss crashed the economy (she certainly did not crash the whole thing) this view will change when those who told her she was wrong, properly crash the economy themselves.

    To what degree Truss is vindicated as ahead of the game depends to what degree Sunak and Starmer (I still think change of government nailed on as voters have already made their minds up) adopt Trussnomics. If they don’t at all then a proper crash of the economy, Greek Style, is definitely going to happen in the UK at some point, the markets have decided on that.

    But more likely we will get two short lived austerity governments now. Especially painful for Labour out of office for so long, face five years basically implementing austerity 2.0 and then thrown out for being hated for that.

    We are all going to come round to the view that borrowing to fund tax cuts is sensible?
    Now you are spinning it, as you are good at, because the too much that was unfunded was Truss mistake, i agree. But that doesn’t change the fundamental point, because the economic truth is it didn’t have to be unfunded did it? If properly funded those tax cuts would still have been politically explosive, but that doesn’t change or should not reflect on the economics in anyway should it, the political assessment and economic assessment should rightly be separate.

    So how about this, we are in a new place now, just like when Sunny Jim gave his “I can tell you in all candour” the levers we usually pull are now not working speech - call Truss growth policy right wing Keynesianism, call it what you like, the alternative is you are unbothered by the need for growth aren’t you? You feel we can borrow or raise taxes instead? Well, I can tell you in all candour… 😁

    Truss tax cuts could have been funded by cuts,

    prediction one: Just like Sunak’s and Starmer’s tax cuts will be funded by cuts.

    Prediction two: 7 years of shrinking the state to pay for a push for growth lie ahead for UK now - Sunak and Starmer don’t have a say in that, nor the voters of this country, the markets have decided for us that we are now in a new orthodoxy, wherein we have to repay the bill for years of cheap credit.

    Any questions?
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