Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Second comings. Why Boris Johnson remains a great lay – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • I'm 5'7 and am neither a lizard person nor a world leader. WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG

    You might just be trying to trick us into believing you are 5'7
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    The sunak cost fallacy
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    13m
    Literally hundreds of people joined @reformparty_uk
    today. Presumably they’re former Tory supporters who no longer feel that the Conservatives are conservative. Bye bye red wall……

    Excellent news
    Will feel good for about 5 minutes, followed by years of despair and irrelevance.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    edited October 2022
    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,753

    I'm 5'7 and am neither a lizard person nor a world leader. WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG

    You might just be trying to trick us into believing you are 5'7
    Shit, they're onto me.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,001
    Later evening all :)

    As far as Boris Johnson is concerned, I've been trying to work out why he didn't get himself on the ballot today. I presume someone somewhere told him he wouldn't win the members' vote and as we know he doesn't take well to defeat so he prefers not to fight as we saw in 2016.

    He was fortunate in facing the combined busted flushes known as Ken Livingstone (twice) and Jeremy Corbyn (once) and I think many other Conservatives would also be 3-0 against those gentlemen.

    To be blunt, Boris Johnson has had his time - his moment was to unite the LEAVE vote (or 75% of it) as well as getting the 20% of REMAIN voters who were more scared of Corbyn than Brexit to form the winning 2019 coalition.

    That has been shattered and Boris Johnson has gone with it - yes, there are a vociferous few who still think "good old Boris" is the best but they are loud on Twitter and that's all. I suppose enough could go to Reform and get then 4-5% at the next election and accentuate the Conservative disaster but that's about all.

    As for Boris, add ten years of Labour rule and he's nearly 70 and while I suppose Kemi Badenoch could find a role for him in terms of actual serious power and influence, he'll be an elder statesman and treated with the same respect or contempt as Hague, Howard and Major are today.

    In truth, there's nothing more EX than an ex-party leader.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Are Jake and Cruella still in the cabinet?

    Sort it out Sunny.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929

    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178 is 5"10.
  • darkage said:

    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    13m
    Literally hundreds of people joined @reformparty_uk
    today. Presumably they’re former Tory supporters who no longer feel that the Conservatives are conservative. Bye bye red wall……

    Excellent news
    Will feel good for about 5 minutes, followed by years of despair and irrelevance.
    The right of the conservative party are destined to follow the Corbynite culture into irrelevance
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022

    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178.2 cm is 5 foot 11
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    Even if that is so, for sake of argument, it does not follow that Rishi Sunak is less gung-ho because he is British Asian - he's not a typical person of any type for a start, hence why he is Prime Minister.

    He might not be as robust on Ukraine as Boris or Truss, we shall see, but I am very confident his skin colour won't be why.
    An important point raised here though.
    We know precious little of his opinions out with the economy.
    Has there ever been a PM that was more of a blank canvas?
    I'm pretty confident there will have been a few, since many will have been deliberately bland and malleable in their opinions. Plus when they were appointed by the monarch more directly some might have been obscure to anyone not in the know.

    But part of why he is a blank canvas is he has only been an MP for 7 years, which is a very short time to become PM, and he has been a junior minister or higher for all but 2.5 years of that, so he's not really been in a position where he would reveal his views, hence leaks about where he stood on covid and the like.

    He's only been a Cabinet Minister for less than 3 years, he has to be one of the least experienced PMs we've had in a long time.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    Even if that is so, for sake of argument, it does not follow that Rishi Sunak is less gung-ho because he is British Asian - he's not a typical person of any type for a start, hence why he is Prime Minister.

    He might not be as robust on Ukraine as Boris or Truss, we shall see, but I am very confident his skin colour won't be why.
    Think what you want but heritage does affect outlook on the world somewhat, Obama too was less focused on Europe in foreign policy than previous Presidents
    As ever with you, the problem is the certainty of your proposition and the weight you are giving to a single factor to the exclusion of all else. You presented it as a simple equation - he is of asian descent, therefore he does not care about Ukraine.

    If you'll forgive me some virtue signalling, I'd invite you to examine one word you included above, which is rather important, which was 'somewhat'.

    Even if we accept the premise that heritage affects outlook somewhat, to what extent is that true in general, and to what extent is that true for him specifically?

    Without seeing inside his head we cannot know for certain what lies behind his views and focuses, but besides an assertion that asian people don't care about Ukraine, do you have any evidence that is why Sunak cares less about it, if he even does? And do alternative explanations exist besides racial foreign policy?

    Your explanation excludes other rationales, even though you suggested he'll be closer to Macron in policy. Macron, who is not British Asian, did you know?
    The French are usually more realpolitik and less hawkish than we are, see also Iraq
    Look at why Rwanda 1994 happened.

    New readers: HYUFD has never left the country, except on a coach tour of Israel to see first hand the archaeological evidence of how God hates queers and abortions. And how Christ deffo never got anal with John the disciple, no sirree.
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    Even if that is so, for sake of argument, it does not follow that Rishi Sunak is less gung-ho because he is British Asian - he's not a typical person of any type for a start, hence why he is Prime Minister.

    He might not be as robust on Ukraine as Boris or Truss, we shall see, but I am very confident his skin colour won't be why.
    Think what you want but heritage does affect outlook on the world somewhat, Obama too was less focused on Europe in foreign policy than previous Presidents
    Oh, I am of part Irish heritage. That must be why I find myself doing a little jig every now and again and getting into fights down the pub. I am sure I also have a little bit of Viking too, but somehow, I manage to resist the temptation to sail my ships to new lands, fight the fight, sing and cry and hope that one day I might get to Valhalla
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,001
    Well, at my advanced years, I'm used to encountering all forms of unusual language but this is a new one on me:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1584638750600175617/photo/1

    Can someone please tell me what a "smoothing cubic spline" is and whether I need one as I get older?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    edited October 2022

    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178 is 5"10.
    Show your working. Online cm to inches disagrees.

    Edit : using 2.54 cm per inch you are right, and my online calc is clearly rubbish!
    I stand ashamed and corrected…

    Second edit. I see now it reported .84 feet, which is of course 10 inches!

    Apologies to anyone who read this rubbish.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    There's me thinking that he was British, born, educated and elected here.

    I am sorry to hear he is still a foreigner.
    Truly bizarre coming from a supporter (and not a fake one either, he backed Sunak over Truss).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,228
    edited October 2022

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    You think British people of different ethnicity cannot share foreign policy views?!
    Wait until he hears about my views on the 'border dispute'.

    I think as President and co-founder of the Start The War Coalition I'm the most hawkish person on this board.
    You're a slacker.

    I want Global Thermonuclear War now. And none of that tactical nuclear war nonsense - straight to the crowd pleasers.

    EDIT: Bet you are a wimp on the position of the Ukraine/Republic of China border....
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,057

    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    I found ONS data reported by the BBC in 2010: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11534042
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929

    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178 is 5"10.
    Show your working. Online cm to inches disagrees.
    1 inch = 2.54cm

    178/2.54 = 70
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,753
    stodge said:

    Well, at my advanced years, I'm used to encountering all forms of unusual language but this is a new one on me:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1584638750600175617/photo/1

    Can someone please tell me what a "smoothing cubic spline" is and whether I need one as I get older?

    Mathematical function to draw reasonably wavy line through collection of data points.

    I'd get two if I were you!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    IDS doing a Boris Johnson impression anyone?

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1584604224184324106
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,958
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    You are making a fool of yourself but then that is par for the course

    Why not just go and join RefUK - you know you want to
    No I don't, I even voted for Sunak in the summer and in any case a less hawkish but still firm position on Putin from No 10 is less likely to involve us in a nuclear war and WW3.

    You are sounding like a Putin appeaser
    At the end of the day Ukraine is not in NATO, we can still send them supplies but we should not risk nuclear war with Russia over a border dispute in the Donbass and Crimea
    It is not a border dispute. It is a war of conquest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    edited October 2022

    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178 is 5"10.
    Show your working. Online cm to inches disagrees.

    Edit : using 2.54 cm per inch you are right, and my online calc is clearly rubbish!
    I stand ashamed and corrected…

    Second edit. I see now it reported .84 feet, which is of course 10 inches!

    Apologies to anyone who read this rubbish.
    Google does appear to be messing up on this one, which is weird.

    Edit: What a waste of an 80000 post.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700

    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178.2 cm is 5 foot 11
    No, it’s 5 10.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Utterly shocking comment and frankly complete garbage and even dangerous to imply such nonsense
    I do despair at times. I really do ! HYUFD does occasionally do some fact based interesting posts and then we get these sweeping statements where everything is either black or white with no grey .

    Sunak regardless of where his parents came from is PM of the UK so what happens in Europe matters .
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022

    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178 is 5"10.
    Show your working. Online cm to inches disagrees.

    Edit : using 2.54 cm per inch you are right, and my online calc is clearly rubbish!
    I stand ashamed and corrected…
    It is 5'10, i thought it was 5'11 but i forgot the rounding.
    I was working on 30cms = 1 foot which is not quite right of course
  • Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178.2 cm is 5 foot 11
    180 cm is 5 ft 11.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,034
    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178.2 cm is 5 foot 11
    180 cm is 5 ft 11.
    Yeah i forgot the squitty little bit adding up
  • Driver said:

    A brief Googling suggests Rishi Sunak, Emmanuel Macron, Olof Scholz, Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky are all 5'7, it's an unprecedented consolidation of European power in the hands of short kings https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1584565847112437762?s=20&t=77Lol0bMEsKBHrI895Uh8w

    Are the lizard people all very short? I seem to recall it has been suggested that HM QE2 was one such lizard person and she was quite small too.
    5'7" is not "very short"; it is about average.
    If you include both men and women, yes.

    Average height for a man is 5'9" or 5'10" (I can't find a definitive source more recent than 2010, when the ONS had it as the former).

    So short, but not very short.
    I found 178.2 cm, which is 5 feet 8.5 inches.

    https://ukpopulation.org/average-male-height/
    178 is 5"10.
    Show your working. Online cm to inches disagrees.

    Edit : using 2.54 cm per inch you are right, and my online calc is clearly rubbish!
    I stand ashamed and corrected…
    It is 5'10, i thought it was 5'11 but i forgot the rounding.
    I was working on 30cms = 1 foot which is not quite right of course
    Or you can do 3.28 ft = 100 cm
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,095
    edited October 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    You are making a fool of yourself but then that is par for the course

    Why not just go and join RefUK - you know you want to
    No I don't, I even voted for Sunak in the summer and in any case a less hawkish but still firm position on Putin from No 10 is less likely to involve us in a nuclear war and WW3.

    You are sounding like a Putin appeaser
    At the end of the day Ukraine is not in NATO, we can still send them supplies but we should not risk nuclear war with Russia over a border dispute in the Donbass and Crimea
    It is not a border dispute. It is a war of conquest.
    The Crimean population for example is mostly ethnic Russian, we are not going to nuclear war with Moscow over the Crimea
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Driver said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    You are making a fool of yourself but then that is par for the course

    Why not just go and join RefUK - you know you want to
    No I don't, I even voted for Sunak in the summer and in any case a less hawkish but still firm position on Putin from No 10 is less likely to involve us in a nuclear war and WW3.

    Your regular reminder that the only person who might start a nuclear war is named Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.
    I find it hard to fathom how people as stupid as you have enough of an autonomous nervous system to keep you breathing. Even in your sleep! Can you really not understand (rhetorical question obv) that causing someone to start a war, is actually causing a war?

    Don't feel you have to answer that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,958
    stodge said:

    Well, at my advanced years, I'm used to encountering all forms of unusual language but this is a new one on me:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1584638750600175617/photo/1

    Can someone please tell me what a "smoothing cubic spline" is and whether I need one as I get older?

    It's a method of time-series analysis that's more advanced than taking a simple moving average.

    Personally I think the LOESS smooth is good enough, though I believe there are modifications to that which lessen the issues that has at each end.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Utterly shocking comment and frankly complete garbage and even dangerous to imply such nonsense
    I do despair at times. I really do ! HYUFD does occasionally do some fact based interesting posts and then we get these sweeping statements where everything is either black or white with no grey .

    Sunak regardless of where his parents came from is PM of the UK so what happens in Europe matters .
    He would be a terrible PM to be uninterested in what is happening next door!

    It's similar to when certain people claimed the EU no longer cared or was interested in the UK, as a slam against Brexit, when regardless of what everyone thinks about Brexit we are a very large developed nation right next to the EU, so if would be a harsh insult on EU leaders to suggest they would not be interested.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    You are making a fool of yourself but then that is par for the course

    Why not just go and join RefUK - you know you want to
    No I don't, I even voted for Sunak in the summer and in any case a less hawkish but still firm position on Putin from No 10 is less likely to involve us in a nuclear war and WW3.

    You are sounding like a Putin appeaser
    At the end of the day Ukraine is not in NATO, we can still send them supplies but we should not risk nuclear war with Russia over a border dispute in the Donbass and Crimea
    It is not a border dispute. It is a war of conquest.
    The Crimean population is mostly ethnic Russian, we are not going to nuclear war with Moscow over the Crimea
    What about Zaporizhia, Kherson, Lugansk and Donetsk?
  • HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,095
    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    Even if that is so, for sake of argument, it does not follow that Rishi Sunak is less gung-ho because he is British Asian - he's not a typical person of any type for a start, hence why he is Prime Minister.

    He might not be as robust on Ukraine as Boris or Truss, we shall see, but I am very confident his skin colour won't be why.
    Think what you want but heritage does affect outlook on the world somewhat, Obama too was less focused on Europe in foreign policy than previous Presidents
    As ever with you, the problem is the certainty of your proposition and the weight you are giving to a single factor to the exclusion of all else. You presented it as a simple equation - he is of asian descent, therefore he does not care about Ukraine.

    If you'll forgive me some virtue signalling, I'd invite you to examine one word you included above, which is rather important, which was 'somewhat'.

    Even if we accept the premise that heritage affects outlook somewhat, to what extent is that true in general, and to what extent is that true for him specifically?

    Without seeing inside his head we cannot know for certain what lies behind his views and focuses, but besides an assertion that asian people don't care about Ukraine, do you have any evidence that is why Sunak cares less about it, if he even does? And do alternative explanations exist besides racial foreign policy?

    Your explanation excludes other rationales, even though you suggested he'll be closer to Macron in policy. Macron, who is not British Asian, did you know?
    The French are usually more realpolitik and less hawkish than we are, see also Iraq
    Look at why Rwanda 1994 happened.

    New readers: HYUFD has never left the country, except on a coach tour of Israel to see first hand the archaeological evidence of how God hates queers and abortions. And how Christ deffo never got anal with John the disciple, no sirree.
    Yes, I have, the USA, most of Europe, Mauritius and Palestine too, not just Israel
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,485
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    Even if that is so, for sake of argument, it does not follow that Rishi Sunak is less gung-ho because he is British Asian - he's not a typical person of any type for a start, hence why he is Prime Minister.

    He might not be as robust on Ukraine as Boris or Truss, we shall see, but I am very confident his skin colour won't be why.
    An important point raised here though.
    We know precious little of his opinions out with the economy.
    Has there ever been a PM that was more of a blank canvas?
    I'm pretty confident there will have been a few, since many will have been deliberately bland and malleable in their opinions. Plus when they were appointed by the monarch more directly some might have been obscure to anyone not in the know.

    But part of why he is a blank canvas is he has only been an MP for 7 years, which is a very short time to become PM, and he has been a junior minister or higher for all but 2.5 years of that, so he's not really been in a position where he would reveal his views, hence leaks about where he stood on covid and the like.

    He's only been a Cabinet Minister for less than 3 years, he has to be one of the least experienced PMs we've had in a long time.
    First ever PM from a Yorkshire constituency. An amazing stat.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    You are making a fool of yourself but then that is par for the course

    Why not just go and join RefUK - you know you want to
    No I don't, I even voted for Sunak in the summer and in any case a less hawkish but still firm position on Putin from No 10 is less likely to involve us in a nuclear war and WW3.

    You are sounding like a Putin appeaser
    At the end of the day Ukraine is not in NATO, we can still send them supplies but we should not risk nuclear war with Russia over a border dispute in the Donbass and Crimea
    It is not a border dispute. It is a war of conquest.
    The Crimean population for example is mostly ethnic Russian, we are not going to nuclear war with Moscow over the Crimea
    I am not entirely convinced that you are ethnically human

    Are you 5'7 ?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    So a big day for Sunny Rick tomorrow.

    Will Michael Green keep his job?

    Will Penny get the nod as Forsec?

    Will we finally be rid of Jake Rees?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Nobody wants centimetres. Fools measurement.
    The lady wants 6 foot and 6 inches not 182.88 and 15.24 cm
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,184
    stodge said:

    Later evening all :)

    As far as Boris Johnson is concerned, I've been trying to work out why he didn't get himself on the ballot today. I presume someone somewhere told him he wouldn't win the members' vote and as we know he doesn't take well to defeat so he prefers not to fight as we saw in 2016.

    He was fortunate in facing the combined busted flushes known as Ken Livingstone (twice) and Jeremy Corbyn (once) and I think many other Conservatives would also be 3-0 against those gentlemen.

    To be blunt, Boris Johnson has had his time - his moment was to unite the LEAVE vote (or 75% of it) as well as getting the 20% of REMAIN voters who were more scared of Corbyn than Brexit to form the winning 2019 coalition.

    That has been shattered and Boris Johnson has gone with it - yes, there are a vociferous few who still think "good old Boris" is the best but they are loud on Twitter and that's all. I suppose enough could go to Reform and get then 4-5% at the next election and accentuate the Conservative disaster but that's about all.

    As for Boris, add ten years of Labour rule and he's nearly 70 and while I suppose Kemi Badenoch could find a role for him in terms of actual serious power and influence, he'll be an elder statesman and treated with the same respect or contempt as Hague, Howard and Major are today.

    In truth, there's nothing more EX than an ex-party leader.

    Regular readers will know that I was convinced from Friday that he would pull out, even if he got the hundred noms. It seemed obvious to me that the member ballot was never intended to happen. There are tons of levers the party hierarchy might have pulled to force Johnson to accept the inevitable; we can’t really guess what brutal truth or threat or promise did the trick, but the trick was done nevertheless.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,095

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
    If wanting to avoid being obliberated by a Russian nuclear missile over the Crimea and Donbass makes me a Putin appeaser so be it.

    It used to be called realpolitik
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    You are making a fool of yourself but then that is par for the course

    Why not just go and join RefUK - you know you want to
    No I don't, I even voted for Sunak in the summer and in any case a less hawkish but still firm position on Putin from No 10 is less likely to involve us in a nuclear war and WW3.

    Your regular reminder that the only person who might start a nuclear war is named Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.
    I find it hard to fathom how people as stupid as you have enough of an autonomous nervous system to keep you breathing. Even in your sleep! Can you really not understand (rhetorical question obv) that causing someone to start a war, is actually causing a war?

    Don't feel you have to answer that.
    Putin started it! He invaded Poland Ukraine!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Why is the (future) Prime Minister giving me the bedroom eyes?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,958
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    You are making a fool of yourself but then that is par for the course

    Why not just go and join RefUK - you know you want to
    No I don't, I even voted for Sunak in the summer and in any case a less hawkish but still firm position on Putin from No 10 is less likely to involve us in a nuclear war and WW3.

    You are sounding like a Putin appeaser
    At the end of the day Ukraine is not in NATO, we can still send them supplies but we should not risk nuclear war with Russia over a border dispute in the Donbass and Crimea
    It is not a border dispute. It is a war of conquest.
    The Crimean population for example is mostly ethnic Russian, we are not going to nuclear war with Moscow over the Crimea
    That's is irrelevant as to whether or is accurate to characterise the war as a border dispute.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,001
    Finally, a quick look at the latest Danish polling with polling day for the Folketing just a week away.

    The latest poll I've seen is the Voxmeter poll with fieldwork from 19-21 October.

    That has the centre-left bloc on 49% and the centre-right bloc on 41.8% and the Moderates continuing to do well with 8.8% so the risk for Lars Lokke Rasmussen is even if his group join with the centre-right they may not have enough votes to overcome the centre-left.

    On the centre-right side, Voxmeter have Venstre on 14.2% but the Conservatives and Denmark Democrats both down to 6.8% with the Liberal Alliance improving to 7.5%.

    On the centre-left side, the Social Democrats are on 25.7% and the Socialist Folkeparti on 9.1% with Radikale Venstre stabilising just below 5%.

    It's a very good poll for Mette Frederiksen and the centre-left and in contrast to Epinion which had the centre-left ahead by less than four points and the Moderates just shy of 10%.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Inspired.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
    If wanting to avoid being obliberated by a Russian nuclear missile over the Crimea and Donbass makes me a Putin appeaser so be it.

    It used to be called realpolitik
    A russian nuke over the Crimea isnt going to flatten Epping Forest. Wont be too clever for Sevastopol tbf
  • Nobody wants centimetres. Fools measurement.
    The lady wants 6 foot and 6 inches not 182.88 and 15.24 cm

    Without googling or using a calculator, due to my boyhood fascination with WW1 and WW2 battleships and their guns, I can tell you that:

    3 inches = 76 mm
    4 inches = 102 mm
    5 inches = 127 mm
    6 inches = 152 mm
    7.5 inches = 190 mm
    8 inches = 203 mm
    9.2 inches = 234 mm
    10 inches = 254 mm
    11 inches = 279 mm
    12 inches = 305 mm
    13.5 inches = 343 mm
    14 inches = 356 mm
    15 inches = 381 mm
    16 inches = 406 mm
    18 inches = 457 mm
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,209
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    Even if that is so, for sake of argument, it does not follow that Rishi Sunak is less gung-ho because he is British Asian - he's not a typical person of any type for a start, hence why he is Prime Minister.

    He might not be as robust on Ukraine as Boris or Truss, we shall see, but I am very confident his skin colour won't be why.
    Think what you want but heritage does affect outlook on the world somewhat, Obama too was less focused on Europe in foreign policy than previous Presidents
    As ever with you, the problem is the certainty of your proposition and the weight you are giving to a single factor to the exclusion of all else. You presented it as a simple equation - he is of asian descent, therefore he does not care about Ukraine.

    If you'll forgive me some virtue signalling, I'd invite you to examine one word you included above, which is rather important, which was 'somewhat'.

    Even if we accept the premise that heritage affects outlook somewhat, to what extent is that true in general, and to what extent is that true for him specifically?

    Without seeing inside his head we cannot know for certain what lies behind his views and focuses, but besides an assertion that asian people don't care about Ukraine, do you have any evidence that is why Sunak cares less about it, if he even does? And do alternative explanations exist besides racial foreign policy?

    Your explanation excludes other rationales, even though you suggested he'll be closer to Macron in policy. Macron, who is not British Asian, did you know?

    If a white European leader can not 'care' as much about Ukraine as Boris and Truss, so can a non-white European leader. And if a white European leader can care as much about it as they did, so can a non-white leader.
    The "Asian descent" stuff is crap, and ugly crap.

    But Sunak's billionaire father-in-law is a Modi supporter. His foreign policy decisions are bound to be scrutinised in that context.
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Why is the (future) Prime Minister giving me the bedroom eyes?
    Someone was suggesting we all lay Boris Johnson earlier.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,753

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Inspired.
    There's something odd about the "Proud to love animals" proclamation below the logo.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,199
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
    If wanting to avoid being obliberated by a Russian nuclear missile over the Crimea and Donbass makes me a Putin appeaser so be it.

    It used to be called realpolitik
    As has been ably demonstrated by the U.K. and its allies, there is actually a middle ground between doing nothing and obliterating Moscow.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    The reality of the situation in Ukraine is that it probably isn't currently in the US/western interest to make any deal with Russia. The aim should be to just keep on inflicting maximum damage to Russian military capability, so it just gets harder and harder for Russia to pursue the conflict. Psychologically the war is working well. Gradually the 'myths' about the greatness of Russia and the justice of the conflict will be revealed as a sham. Particularly given the fate of the conscripts. The trouble is that if you have a 'peace deal', then you will have to start again in a few years time and you will be back to square one. Russia has to be faced with a resolve greater than its own, and that is what it is encountering in Ukraine.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Nobody wants centimetres. Fools measurement.
    The lady wants 6 foot and 6 inches not 182.88 and 15.24 cm

    Without googling or using a calculator, due to my boyhood fascination with WW1 and WW2 battleships and their guns, I can tell you that:

    3 inches = 76 mm
    4 inches = 102 mm
    5 inches = 127 mm
    6 inches = 152 mm
    7.5 inches = 190 mm
    8 inches = 203 mm
    9.2 inches = 234 mm
    10 inches = 254 mm
    11 inches = 279 mm
    12 inches = 305 mm
    13.5 inches = 343 mm
    14 inches = 356 mm
    15 inches = 381 mm
    16 inches = 406 mm
    18 inches = 457 mm
    Outstanding stuff
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    Even if that is so, for sake of argument, it does not follow that Rishi Sunak is less gung-ho because he is British Asian - he's not a typical person of any type for a start, hence why he is Prime Minister.

    He might not be as robust on Ukraine as Boris or Truss, we shall see, but I am very confident his skin colour won't be why.
    An important point raised here though.
    We know precious little of his opinions out with the economy.
    Has there ever been a PM that was more of a blank canvas?
    I'm pretty confident there will have been a few, since many will have been deliberately bland and malleable in their opinions. Plus when they were appointed by the monarch more directly some might have been obscure to anyone not in the know.

    But part of why he is a blank canvas is he has only been an MP for 7 years, which is a very short time to become PM, and he has been a junior minister or higher for all but 2.5 years of that, so he's not really been in a position where he would reveal his views, hence leaks about where he stood on covid and the like.

    He's only been a Cabinet Minister for less than 3 years, he has to be one of the least experienced PMs we've had in a long time.
    First ever PM from a Yorkshire constituency. An amazing stat.
    Yorkshire born, Yorkshire bred. Strong in’t arm, thick in’t ‘ead. Well, 1 out of 4 ain’t bad!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    ...
  • Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Inspired.
    There's something odd about the "Proud to love animals" proclamation below the logo.
    Twinned with Bestiality News
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,747

    Nobody wants centimetres. Fools measurement.
    The lady wants 6 foot and 6 inches not 182.88 and 15.24 cm

    Without googling or using a calculator, due to my boyhood fascination with WW1 and WW2 battleships and their guns, I can tell you that:

    3 inches = 76 mm
    4 inches = 102 mm
    5 inches = 127 mm
    6 inches = 152 mm
    7.5 inches = 190 mm
    8 inches = 203 mm
    9.2 inches = 234 mm
    10 inches = 254 mm
    11 inches = 279 mm
    12 inches = 305 mm
    13.5 inches = 343 mm
    14 inches = 356 mm
    15 inches = 381 mm
    16 inches = 406 mm
    18 inches = 457 mm
    10 inches the average then. Gosh.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Inspired.
    There's something odd about the "Proud to love animals" proclamation below the logo.
    That’s their motto - it’s on every issue beneath the masthead.

    (Admittedly it’s somewhat bizarre - although seemingly justifiable. I once read a mildly interesting ‘cat facts’ feature in the Star)
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
    If wanting to avoid being obliberated by a Russian nuclear missile over the Crimea and Donbass makes me a Putin appeaser so be it.

    It used to be called realpolitik
    A russian nuke over the Crimea isnt going to flatten Epping Forest. Wont be too clever for Sevastopol tbf
    It might guarantee a suntan for those Russian beach babes though
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,234
    edited October 2022

    Nobody wants centimetres. Fools measurement.
    The lady wants 6 foot and 6 inches not 182.88 and 15.24 cm

    Do they? Rishi married well...
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,057
    edited October 2022
    .
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    You are making a fool of yourself but then that is par for the course

    Why not just go and join RefUK - you know you want to
    No I don't, I even voted for Sunak in the summer and in any case a less hawkish but still firm position on Putin from No 10 is less likely to involve us in a nuclear war and WW3.

    Your regular reminder that the only person who might start a nuclear war is named Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.
    I find it hard to fathom how people as stupid as you have enough of an autonomous nervous system to keep you breathing. Even in your sleep! Can you really not understand (rhetorical question obv) that causing someone to start a war, is actually causing a war?

    Don't feel you have to answer that.
    How do we "cause" VVP to start a nuclear war?

    Better yet, if we might "cause" him to start a nuclear war how do we avoid it? Please bear in mind that if your answer is "give into his nuclear blackmail", it only delays him, it doesn't stop him.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    darkage said:

    The reality of the situation in Ukraine is that it probably isn't currently in the US/western interest to make any deal with Russia. The aim should be to just keep on inflicting maximum damage to Russian military capability, so it just gets harder and harder for Russia to pursue the conflict. Psychologically the war is working well. Gradually the 'myths' about the greatness of Russia and the justice of the conflict will be revealed as a sham. Particularly given the fate of the conscripts. The trouble is that if you have a 'peace deal', then you will have to start again in a few years time and you will be back to square one. Russia has to be faced with a resolve greater than its own, and that is what it is encountering in Ukraine.

    Yes, there is a cynical take on that which is that we can see Russian capability degraded whilst the Ukrainians pay the price. However what we don't want is an endless on/off conflict if we can avoid it.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited October 2022
    darkage said:

    The reality of the situation in Ukraine is that it probably isn't currently in the US/western interest to make any deal with Russia. The aim should be to just keep on inflicting maximum damage to Russian military capability, so it just gets harder and harder for Russia to pursue the conflict. Psychologically the war is working well. Gradually the 'myths' about the greatness of Russia and the justice of the conflict will be revealed as a sham. Particularly given the fate of the conscripts. The trouble is that if you have a 'peace deal', then you will have to start again in a few years time and you will be back to square one. Russia has to be faced with a resolve greater than its own, and that is what it is encountering in Ukraine.

    You believe that ideas about the greatness of Russia and the just nature of the war are being eroded in Russia's military and civilian populations, and that Russia is on its way to being defeated in a war of attrition - am I right?

    Making the enemy stop fighting is the aim of all war.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,057
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
    If wanting to avoid being obliberated by a Russian nuclear missile over the Crimea and Donbass makes me a Putin appeaser so be it.

    It used to be called realpolitik
    How about being obliterated by a nuclear missile over the Baltics?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    Even if that is so, for sake of argument, it does not follow that Rishi Sunak is less gung-ho because he is British Asian - he's not a typical person of any type for a start, hence why he is Prime Minister.

    He might not be as robust on Ukraine as Boris or Truss, we shall see, but I am very confident his skin colour won't be why.
    An important point raised here though.
    We know precious little of his opinions out with the economy.
    Has there ever been a PM that was more of a blank canvas?
    I'm pretty confident there will have been a few, since many will have been deliberately bland and malleable in their opinions. Plus when they were appointed by the monarch more directly some might have been obscure to anyone not in the know.

    But part of why he is a blank canvas is he has only been an MP for 7 years, which is a very short time to become PM, and he has been a junior minister or higher for all but 2.5 years of that, so he's not really been in a position where he would reveal his views, hence leaks about where he stood on covid and the like.

    He's only been a Cabinet Minister for less than 3 years, he has to be one of the least experienced PMs we've had in a long time.
    First ever PM from a Yorkshire constituency. An amazing stat.
    Until he ascends the list is topped and tailed by Norfolk, the alpha and omega of counties
  • dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    The Daily Mail appears to think its readership have no memory.
    Maybe they don't.
    The one advantage of senility is that you can read The Daily Mail in the morning and by the afternoon you can read it all over again without any sense of repetition or incredulity.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Ending a sentence with a preposition. No wonder the Moggster couldn't support him.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,003
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🔺 Update: Rishi Sunak is preparing to keep Jeremy Hunt as chancellor and then appoint MPs from the right and left after he pledged to build a “big tent” cabinet to help unite the party https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-will-be-in-rishi-sunak-cabinet-predictions-appointments-tory-mps-lkmcj9nnr?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1666642932

    A big tent is the ideal venue for a circus of course.
    ...and clowns a-plenty.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,095

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
    If wanting to avoid being obliberated by a Russian nuclear missile over the Crimea and Donbass makes me a Putin appeaser so be it.

    It used to be called realpolitik
    You don't understand what realpolitik is. Clue: it isn't a synonym for appeasement.
    If Putin launched a tactical nuke over Ukranian forces pushing into Donbass and Crimea and NATO forces then bombed and destroyed his fleet and Putin responded with further nuclear weapons against NATO, that wouldn't be appeasement, that would be WW3
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,929
    Rishi Sunak is the youngest Prime minister since? Surely not Pitt The Younger?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109

    Rishi Sunak is the youngest Prime minister since? Surely not Pitt The Younger?

    He's the youngest since Liz Truss
  • dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    The Daily Mail appears to think its readership have no memory.
    Maybe they don't.
    The one advantage of senility is that you can read The Daily Mail in the morning and by the afternoon you can read it all over again without any sense of repetition or incredulity.
    I know that is in jest but our next door neighbour who is in her late eighties and living alone fits that description exactly

    We have known her and her family for nearly 60 years, and it is so distressing to witness her failing mind and more so for her family who live a distance away

    Dementia is one of the most upsetting health issues imaginable as your love one often deteriorates to not knowing who their dearest and nearest are
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067
    dixiedean said:

    A distant ancestor of mine was shipwrecked off the Irish coast as part of the Spanish Armada.
    That's why I like an afternoon kip.

    After a Guinness?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
    If wanting to avoid being obliberated by a Russian nuclear missile over the Crimea and Donbass makes me a Putin appeaser so be it.

    It used to be called realpolitik
    You don't understand what realpolitik is. Clue: it isn't a synonym for appeasement.
    If Putin launched a tactical nuke over Ukranian forces pushing into Donbass and Crimea and NATO forces then bombed and destroyed his fleet and Putin responded with further nuclear weapons against NATO, that wouldn't be appeasement, that would be WW3
    You do not beat the war monger Putin by appeasement which is just what you are suggesting

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    It does make me laugh to hear all these protestations of unity coming from Tory MPs . We’ve heard it all before , like just 6 weeks ago !
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,067

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    The Daily Mail appears to think its readership have no memory.
    Maybe they don't.
    The one advantage of senility is that you can read The Daily Mail in the morning and by the afternoon you can read it all over again without any sense of repetition or incredulity.
    I know that is in jest but our next door neighbour who is in her late eighties and living alone fits that description exactly

    We have known her and her family for nearly 60 years, and it is so distressing to witness her failing mind and more so for her family who live a distance away

    Dementia is one of the most upsetting health issues imaginable as your love one often deteriorates to not knowing who their dearest and nearest are
    Alzheimer’s sufferers deserve better than to be compared to Daily Mail readers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807

    Rishi Sunak is the youngest Prime minister since? Surely not Pitt The Younger?

    Since Liverpool, I believe, who was 42 years and 1 day when he became PM, unless I am mistaken.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Sunak will presumably announce his cabinet tomorrow afternoon?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,271
    edited October 2022
    So we will soon have a PM who worships a little blue bloke who goes around shagging milkmaids, and another chap who has had a head transplant with an elephant.

    And I thought Christians were bonkers.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,061
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    What a ridiculously prejudiced statement. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Truss made it an issue in the summer, there is no doubt Zelensky preferred Boris and Truss in charge to Rishi

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/23/liz-truss-accuse-rishi-sunak-soft-russia-china/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-zelensky-true-friend-b2159216.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-truss-tell-g7-stick-by-ukraine-face-russian-attacks-2022-10-10/
    Maybe so, but not because he's of asian descent!
    India is taking a largely neutral position on it, most British Asians I know don't want to get too involved
    You are making a fool of yourself but then that is par for the course

    Why not just go and join RefUK - you know you want to
    No I don't, I even voted for Sunak in the summer and in any case a less hawkish but still firm position on Putin from No 10 is less likely to involve us in a nuclear war and WW3.

    You are sounding like a Putin appeaser
    At the end of the day Ukraine is not in NATO, we can still send them supplies but we should not risk nuclear war with Russia over a border dispute in the Donbass and Crimea
    It is not a border dispute. It is a war of conquest.
    The Crimean population for example is mostly ethnic Russian, we are not going to nuclear war with Moscow over the Crimea
    Really what the fuck....it doesnt matter what there ethnicity is....if they don't want russian rule they dont want it. I keep thinking you cant sink lower in your morals but you consistently surprise on the downside where moral compasses are concerned you are liz truss
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,228

    Nobody wants centimetres. Fools measurement.
    The lady wants 6 foot and 6 inches not 182.88 and 15.24 cm

    Without googling or using a calculator, due to my boyhood fascination with WW1 and WW2 battleships and their guns, I can tell you that:

    3 inches = 76 mm
    4 inches = 102 mm
    5 inches = 127 mm
    6 inches = 152 mm
    7.5 inches = 190 mm
    8 inches = 203 mm
    9.2 inches = 234 mm
    10 inches = 254 mm
    11 inches = 279 mm
    12 inches = 305 mm
    13.5 inches = 343 mm
    14 inches = 356 mm
    15 inches = 381 mm
    16 inches = 406 mm
    18 inches = 457 mm
    Outstanding stuff
    18.1 = 460
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,061
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
    If wanting to avoid being obliberated by a Russian nuclear missile over the Crimea and Donbass makes me a Putin appeaser so be it.

    It used to be called realpolitik
    You don't understand what realpolitik is. Clue: it isn't a synonym for appeasement.
    If Putin launched a tactical nuke over Ukranian forces pushing into Donbass and Crimea and NATO forces then bombed and destroyed his fleet and Putin responded with further nuclear weapons against NATO, that wouldn't be appeasement, that would be WW3
    Really get a grip.....Putin is the bully who asks for your lunch money and says if you give it to him he will not hassle you tomorrow....yes he will. Give in to his rhetoric of do what I want or I nuke is a recipe for disaster. Today it will be the Ukraine, tomorrow it will be poland or estonia. Stand up to the mad fuck now or we end up ceding eastern europe to him.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,485
    R5L just said it was confirmed Boris had 102 nominations. Is this true?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,958
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Looks like Russia is close to going nuclear. Perhaps a dirty bomb

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

    PM Rishi Sunak might face the biggest geopolitical crisis in many decades in his first week in office. Unenviable

    Sunak however is much less of a hawk than Boris and Truss were, indeed his position on Putin is not much different to Macron's.

    Looks like Zelensky will therefore be relying on Biden for a firm response, which may be hope more than likelihood
    Nah. He’s about to get inducted as PM. It’ll change him. Chancellor is a different role and requires different priorities, precisely because there’s others in Cabinet to argue the non-financial case.
    It won't change his core beliefs, at the end of the day he is a PM of Indian not European heritage looking to links with Asia for the UK's future. He has no interest in getting involved in a border dispute on the Russian Ukraine border now there is little danger of Kyiv falling
    This is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard from you. And I was so hopeful after your general common sense regarding a Sunak premiership
    I am astonished he made such comments and frankly he sounds like a Putin appeaser
    If wanting to avoid being obliberated by a Russian nuclear missile over the Crimea and Donbass makes me a Putin appeaser so be it.

    It used to be called realpolitik
    You don't understand what realpolitik is. Clue: it isn't a synonym for appeasement.
    If Putin launched a tactical nuke over Ukranian forces pushing into Donbass and Crimea and NATO forces then bombed and destroyed his fleet and Putin responded with further nuclear weapons against NATO, that wouldn't be appeasement, that would be WW3
    Realpolitik is accepting that you have to risk nuclear war to keep yourself safe from nuclear blackmail.

    This is not a comfortable realisation for me, but it is a rare foray away from my normal idealism so I guess I should expect it to feel uncomfortable.

    I don't know what the root of your view is, but it's not realistic. You can't pretend the nuclear threat doesn't exist by trying to ignore it or give in to it.
  • dixiedean said:

    R5L just said it was confirmed Boris had 102 nominations. Is this true?

    According to the 1922 Committee yes
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    DJ41 said:

    darkage said:

    The reality of the situation in Ukraine is that it probably isn't currently in the US/western interest to make any deal with Russia. The aim should be to just keep on inflicting maximum damage to Russian military capability, so it just gets harder and harder for Russia to pursue the conflict. Psychologically the war is working well. Gradually the 'myths' about the greatness of Russia and the justice of the conflict will be revealed as a sham. Particularly given the fate of the conscripts. The trouble is that if you have a 'peace deal', then you will have to start again in a few years time and you will be back to square one. Russia has to be faced with a resolve greater than its own, and that is what it is encountering in Ukraine.

    You believe that ideas about the greatness of Russia and the just nature of the war are being eroded in Russia's military and civilian populations, and that Russia is on its way to being defeated in a war of attrition - am I right?

    Making the enemy stop fighting is the aim of all war.
    Clearly there is a proportion of the population who are sceptical about Putin's myths about Russian greatness otherwise why would people be fleeing the country. Others are accepting that they need to go as their duty but they are then being grossly let down by the Russian state on every level. The incompetence is clear to see, the video evidence is damning. I don't see how this could not have a psychological impact on a population that diminishes enthusiasm for the war.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,003
    edited October 2022
    Streeting not exactly shining on Newsnight. Refusing to accept a general election risks market instability again.

    Nor answering why there wasn't a general election following Blair's transfer to Brown.

    Labour's "talent" is very thinly spread - and that will be exposed over the next two years.
This discussion has been closed.