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This just about sums up the day – politicalbetting.com

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Are there 40 Tory MPs prepared to put the national interest first and vote no confidence in a government that deserves no one’s confidence?

    They need to get rid of Truss and stabilise things and look at a GE in April/ May. A GE campaign as we enter the winter energy crisis and the brink in Ukraine would be dreadful for the country.
    This administration is dreadful for country. We need a functioning government. The Tories are simply unable to provide it. Sunak is not a unity candidate.
    The British have had a functioning government for decades and it hasn't done them any good. Generally non-functioning governments do less damage.
    Amusing, though untrue. Our 'non-functioning' governments do less damage because most of the governing apparatus is in fact still functioning on default mode.

    Places with genuinely non-functioning governments would scoff at mere executive dysfunction.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,716
    Arguably the point of the Johnson government in 2019 was just to break the deadlock in parliament over Brexit and get it done. Having done that, we needed a political reset with all parties accepting it as a fait accompli, but it didn't happen due to a combination of the pandemic, and Boris Derangement Syndrome driving factions inside and outside the Tory party mad.

    What we need now is probably a new election so that we can move on to the next phase.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    NEW: Cabinet ministers are tonight discussing whether to tell Liz Truss to resign

    Conversations ongoing as of 11pm

    Those loyal this morning now can’t say they still support her

    Comes after @BloombergUK reported Badenoch, Malthouse on resignation watch

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-19/truss-s-ailing-government-sinks-to-new-low-in-commons-vote-chaos
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    Genuinely yes. Amazingly sudden, and I don't think they will realise the hole they are in until a GE, but it's there.
  • ohnotnow said:

    Still, mild weather predicted for later this week. And I've just ordered a rice cooker.

    So not all doom and gloom.

    Good performance by Man U tonight too!
    Outstanding and best under the new manager

    Even Fred and Shaw played well
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    They'll be fine until something comes along that could replace them. Then they wont be
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A side note, but... Remainers now dominate the most senior positions in government.

    PM - Remain
    Deputy PM - Remain
    Chancellor - Remain
    Home Sec - Remain
    Foreign Sec - Leave
    Defence Sec - Remain
    Justice Sec - Remain

    [6 of the 7 most senior cabinet positions]

    I think the point here is that what the UK needs at the moment is dull technocracy (stability, don't rock the boat, fiscal conservatism), and it's no surprise that dull technocrats also lean remain.

    That doesn't make the decision to leave less right (or less wrong) as it's primarily a question of sovereignty, rather than the economy.
    Even I'm bored of pointing this out, but British politics broke when Brexit lies were presented by almost all of the British media as an equal & opposite counterpoint to reality, gravity, evidence & expertise. None of it can be fixed until the idiocy of Brexit is acknowledged.

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1582835775422763008
    Brexit = sovereignty
    Technocracy = economy

    For example, it's clear that Scotland would be poorer outside the UK, but many people consider that a price worth paying for self determination.

    Brexit entailed the same price, and only a fool would have been unaware of it. Whether it was a price worth paying is very much up for debate.

    But the important point is to distinguish the brexit/sovereignty argument/cost from the much wider global financial crisis we are in now. Brexit is largely irrelevant to that crisis, as borne out by US and EU market data.

    Only loons and fanatics want to bring the conversation about the main problems the UK now faces back to brexit. The simple fact is we are where we are, and it's almost identical to where we would have been had we voted to remain.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,390
    I think if the Tofu-Eating Wokerati were to merge with the Anti-Growth Coalition, they could bring the government down quite quickly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Are there 40 Tory MPs prepared to put the national interest first and vote no confidence in a government that deserves no one’s confidence?

    They need to get rid of Truss and stabilise things and look at a GE in April/ May. A GE campaign as we enter the winter energy crisis and the brink in Ukraine would be dreadful for the country.
    This administration is dreadful for country. We need a functioning government. The Tories are simply unable to provide it. Sunak is not a unity candidate.
    He or Maudaunt are the only ones who could stable things as I cannot see a GE for at least 2 years
    The two runners up have to agree NOW to stabilise things.

    One of them has to agree to defer and allow the other to be PM.

    As Sunak was the actual runner up then he should be PM and Mordunt the deputy and FO.

    FFS. How difficult is this? We are in a proxy war with a nuclear power FFS.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Are there 40 Tory MPs prepared to put the national interest first and vote no confidence in a government that deserves no one’s confidence?

    They need to get rid of Truss and stabilise things and look at a GE in April/ May. A GE campaign as we enter the winter energy crisis and the brink in Ukraine would be dreadful for the country.
    This administration is dreadful for country. We need a functioning government. The Tories are simply unable to provide it. Sunak is not a unity candidate.
    The British have had a functioning government for decades and it hasn't done them any good. Generally non-functioning governments do less damage.
    Amusing, though untrue. Our 'non-functioning' governments do less damage because most of the governing apparatus is in fact still functioning on default mode.

    Places with genuinely non-functioning governments would scoff at mere executive dysfunction.
    That's kind of what I mean. You want the civil service to carry on doing its thing, but when the PM has a bright idea, you don't want them to be able to carry it out.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    Yokes said:

    Jonathan said:

    Are there 40 Tory MPs prepared to put the national interest first and vote no confidence in a government that deserves no one’s confidence?

    I suspect Graham Brady has more than 40 MPS making their position clear but

    a) he is waiting to see if Truss falls on her sword and/or
    b) he is setting a higher bar so as to make it a fait accompli if he knocks on the No.10 door
    Having dinner by looks of the tv clips this evening. Some fancy function or other.

    Whilst the country waits to have an actual fucking government.

    Surely he's at the Carlton Club for the 19 October centenary dinner? The whole cabinet was supposed to be going.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    ohnotnow said:

    Still, mild weather predicted for later this week. And I've just ordered a rice cooker.

    So not all doom and gloom.

    Bit chilly up my way. Might fire up the new log burner this weekend.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    Heathener said:

    Tom Bradby summarised very well. BBC News was also a surprising evisceration. But then you can't really be equivocal about this. It is the worst shambles in Gov't during my lifetime by a country mile.

    I think we need a General Election but how we get there I've no idea.

    Starmer should table a VoNC. Force the Conservatives to vote for Truss, to show what a shambles they are.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    edited October 2022
    This needs the Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444
    edited October 2022

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Are there 40 Tory MPs prepared to put the national interest first and vote no confidence in a government that deserves no one’s confidence?

    They need to get rid of Truss and stabilise things and look at a GE in April/ May. A GE campaign as we enter the winter energy crisis and the brink in Ukraine would be dreadful for the country.
    This administration is dreadful for country. We need a functioning government. The Tories are simply unable to provide it. Sunak is not a unity candidate.
    He or Maudaunt are the only ones who could stable things as I cannot see a GE for at least 2 years
    I don't see how either of them could stabilise things. How would they manage to command the support of right-wing MPs who'd rather have Johnson or Badenoch or Braverman or Truss in charge?

    The Conservative party are completely ungovernable now. They are entirely incapable of providing government for the country over the next two years.

    If, nevertheless, they stagger on for 18 more months
    - or longer! - in several varieties of complete chaos, with inflation in double figures and everything else that is to come, they would have the prospect of beating Theresa May's unenviable record for national vote share that she set in the 2019 European elections. They're sunk, not Mary Rose sunk and will be rescued by archaeologists in a few centuries to be exhibited in a museum sunk, but sunk right to the bottom of the Marianas trench sunk.

    Remember, we're in the period where Hunt is supposedly the calm hand on the tiller, the power behind the throne who is going to bring stability back to government, and then today happens. No government has ever been this far beyond repair in British history before. There is no way back this side of a general election and a bitter multi-year struggle for control of the party.

    Two years more of this! Like one of those tragic opera deaths who just refuses to die.
  • Jonathan said:

    Are there 40 Tory MPs prepared to put the national interest first and vote no confidence in a government that deserves no one’s confidence?

    They would be utterly insane. They have two and a half years and something may turn up. A defeat of Putin would be a handy aside.

    What about a Government of National Unity. Lefty Remain Tories, Lord Frost, Farage, Tice and the DUP. Sorted!
    Mentioning GNU's should be the PB equivalent of "Godwin's Law"
    Don't you like my lineup?

    Jonathan said:

    Are there 40 Tory MPs prepared to put the national interest first and vote no confidence in a government that deserves no one’s confidence?

    They would be utterly insane. They have two and a half years and something may turn up. A defeat of Putin would be a handy aside.

    What about a Government of National Unity. Lefty Remain Tories, Lord Frost, Farage, Tice and the DUP. Sorted!
    Mentioning GNU's should be the PB equivalent of "Godwin's Law"
    Don't you like my lineup?
    Believe mine (posted yesterday) is still superior:

    Prime Minister > Kermit the Frog (aka GOF)
    Deputy PM and Chief Whip > Miss Piggy
    Chancellor of the Exchequer > Fozie Bear
    Foreign Secretary > Dr Julius Strangepork
    Home Secretary > Gonzo the Great
    Defense Secretary > Animal
    Justice Secretary/Lord Chancellor > Bert and Ernie
    SS for Business & Trade > Rizzo the Rat
    SS for Environment > Oscar the Grouch
    SS for Education > Elmo
    SS for Health > Link Hogthrob
    SS for Science > Dr Bensen Honeydew (w Beaker as UnderSec)
    SS for Culture > Dr Teeth
    SS for Agriculture > Henrietta Chicken (or Attila the Hen?)
    SS for Transport > Big Bird
    SS for Leveling Up > Cookie Monster
    SSs for Woke & Multiculturalism > Janice and Swedish Chef
    Leader of the House of Commons > Scooter

    Certainly doubt recent shambles in HoC would have happened with Miss Piggy as Chief Whip!
  • kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A side note, but... Remainers now dominate the most senior positions in government.

    PM - Remain
    Deputy PM - Remain
    Chancellor - Remain
    Home Sec - Remain
    Foreign Sec - Leave
    Defence Sec - Remain
    Justice Sec - Remain

    [6 of the 7 most senior cabinet positions]

    I think the point here is that what the UK needs at the moment is dull technocracy (stability, don't rock the boat, fiscal conservatism), and it's no surprise that dull technocrats also lean remain.

    That doesn't make the decision to leave less right (or less wrong) as it's primarily a question of sovereignty, rather than the economy.
    Even I'm bored of pointing this out, but British politics broke when Brexit lies were presented by almost all of the British media as an equal & opposite counterpoint to reality, gravity, evidence & expertise. None of it can be fixed until the idiocy of Brexit is acknowledged.

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1582835775422763008
    Brexit = sovereignty
    Technocracy = economy

    For example, it's clear that Scotland would be poorer outside the UK, but many people consider that a price worth paying for self determination.

    Brexit entailed the same price, and only a fool would have been unaware of it. Whether it was a price worth paying is very much up for debate.

    But the important point is to distinguish the brexit/sovereignty argument/cost from the much wider global financial crisis we are in now. Brexit is largely irrelevant to that crisis, as borne out by US and EU market data.

    Only loons and fanatics want to bring the conversation about the main problems the UK now faces back to brexit. The simple fact is we are where we are, and it's almost identical to where we would have been had we voted to remain.
    "Only loons and fanatics"

    And that sums up Scott perfectly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    They'll be fine until something comes along that could replace them. Then they wont be
    French socialist party says 'hi'.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Arguably the point of the Johnson government in 2019 was just to break the deadlock in parliament over Brexit and get it done. Having done that, we needed a political reset with all parties accepting it as a fait accompli, but it didn't happen due to a combination of the pandemic, and Boris Derangement Syndrome driving factions inside and outside the Tory party mad.

    What we need now is probably a new election so that we can move on to the next phase.

    Even if an early election is an option, you need to get enough stability for the Tories to fight one.

    Who the hell would put together a manifesto for them today and what on earth would it have in it?

    I think the depth of chaos today does make a 2023 election more likely, a next Tory government that is essentially semi-technocratic finding a landing zone where 150+ seats can be saved, but the fractiousness under the surface could explode if they go on any longer.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    Labour have had really difficult, reputation damaging moments in office, but for all their problems they have never sunk this low. This is different. It’s On a completely new scale.

    It makes any future Tory challenge on Labour competence impossible. There will be immediate comeback.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Scott_xP said:

    Why did @Peston think that having the script line ‘Jeremy Hunt’s cuts’ would end well?

    He did it deliberately

    He’s a Hut
    Old Mrs Hunt
    Has a flat cut punt
    Not a punt cut flat
    But a flat cut punt.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    kle4 said:

    Truss cabinet didn't start out well but it's getting better.

    It didn't seem that terrible, many of them were too inexperienced to have developed reptuations for awfulness. JRM and Braverman were about the most disquieting for those not on the right, and since he's been relatively quiet he's actually enhanced his reputation.

    That's how bad things have been, Jacob Rees-Mogg has been ok.
    Coffey in charge of the NHS defies belief.
  • The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    We can only hope so.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Are there 40 Tory MPs prepared to put the national interest first and vote no confidence in a government that deserves no one’s confidence?

    They need to get rid of Truss and stabilise things and look at a GE in April/ May. A GE campaign as we enter the winter energy crisis and the brink in Ukraine would be dreadful for the country.
    This administration is dreadful for country. We need a functioning government. The Tories are simply unable to provide it. Sunak is not a unity candidate.
    The British have had a functioning government for decades and it hasn't done them any good. Generally non-functioning governments do less damage.
    Amusing, though untrue. Our 'non-functioning' governments do less damage because most of the governing apparatus is in fact still functioning on default mode.

    Places with genuinely non-functioning governments would scoff at mere executive dysfunction.
    That's kind of what I mean. You want the civil service to carry on doing its thing, but when the PM has a bright idea, you don't want them to be able to carry it out.
    PMs having ideas is fine, even pushing against orthodoxy is fine, PMs just need to properly prepare for that, secure political support for it, make sure there is capacity to do it, and, importantly, check to see if it makes sense outside the wishes of some think tank ideologues with minds as impenetrable to evidence as a granite slab.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    I think if the Tofu-Eating Wokerati were to merge with the Anti-Growth Coalition, they could bring the government down quite quickly.

    Soy you say...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,138
    kle4 said:

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    Genuinely yes. Amazingly sudden, and I don't think they will realise the hole they are in until a GE, but it's there.
    Maybe, but if you forced me to bet I'd say 'no'. FPTP means there's a lot of ruin in a major party. Even if the Tories lose huge numbers of seats they're unlikely to fall below the lib dems in seat count, and they still will have a national structure, activists and residual supporter base. They might be out of power for a long time, but most peoples' memories for political shenanigans are short.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    Truss is particularly egregiously useless, but really just a product of a very dysfunctional party.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    They'll be fine until something comes along that could replace them. Then they wont be
    French socialist party says 'hi'.
    Until centre right voters have something else to vote for they survive, and they have massive local government presence and ground campaign people. Thats all still there. The country isnt just going to hand Labour all the seats, theyre not stupid.
  • Yokes said:

    Jonathan said:

    Are there 40 Tory MPs prepared to put the national interest first and vote no confidence in a government that deserves no one’s confidence?

    I suspect Graham Brady has more than 40 MPS making their position clear but

    a) he is waiting to see if Truss falls on her sword and/or
    b) he is setting a higher bar so as to make it a fait accompli if he knocks on the No.10 door
    Brady and the '22 are not fit for purpose. This mess is on them.
    Why? They didn't decide the rules of the Party election. They have no power to change those rules as far as I can see. All they can do is try to get Truss out within the rules.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    Or until the cabinet is no longer the cabinet.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    kle4 said:

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    Genuinely yes. Amazingly sudden, and I don't think they will realise the hole they are in until a GE, but it's there.
    Much more of this and the Conservative brand will be irrevocably trashed - more like Rolf Harris than George Michael.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    It’s the end of an era, and yet no-one realises it yet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,452
    I have a furtive, existential worry that the circus of present British politics is just another symptom of a deeper and lethal global malaise

    Like a comical yellow face revealing a failing liver



  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,716
    Meanwhile:

    Viktor Orbán
    @PM_ViktorOrban
    They tell me Russian gas is bad. They tell me we should stop buying it. But nobody tells us how to replace Russian gas. Not in five years, but tomorrow. We need to run our economy, it’s as simple as that.


    https://twitter.com/PM_ViktorOrban/status/1582792844565446657
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    They'll be fine until something comes along that could replace them. Then they wont be
    French socialist party says 'hi'.
    Until centre right voters have something else to vote for they survive, and they have massive local government presence and ground campaign people. Thats all still there. The country isnt just going to hand Labour all the seats, theyre not stupid.
    I saw a post on ConHome from someone who’d been out campaigning recently who said they were just getting derision from voters, and he was packing it in.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Heathener said:

    Tom Bradby summarised very well. BBC News was also a surprising evisceration. But then you can't really be equivocal about this. It is the worst shambles in Gov't during my lifetime by a country mile.

    I think we need a General Election but how we get there I've no idea.

    Starmer should table a VoNC. Force the Conservatives to vote for Truss, to show what a shambles they are.
    Yes, I think that's right now.

    He should make it very clear every Tory MP voting to continue this shambles is a culpable accessory. Let Tories abstain if they cannot directly vote to bring down their own government.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    pm215 said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    Genuinely yes. Amazingly sudden, and I don't think they will realise the hole they are in until a GE, but it's there.
    Maybe, but if you forced me to bet I'd say 'no'. FPTP means there's a lot of ruin in a major party. Even if the Tories lose huge numbers of seats they're unlikely to fall below the lib dems in seat count, and they still will have a national structure, activists and residual supporter base. They might be out of power for a long time, but most peoples' memories for political shenanigans are short.
    Even in these riotus times (and gods, I thought we'd past that point by now), betting on continuity is generally correct. I agree, they might be terribly wounded, but not mortally so as the LDs are not the nearest alternative and Farage's mob are as changable as the seasons so what'd be the point when who knows what they'll be tomorrow?

    But that it is even a prospect is astonishing.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Leon said:

    I have a furtive, existential worry that the circus of present British politics is just another symptom of a deeper and lethal global malaise

    Like a comical yellow face revealing a failing liver

    We need Nostraleondamus to tell us how it's all going to play out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    Lopping off a gangrenous toe won't solve everything, but is probably a necessary first step.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Meanwhile:

    Viktor Orbán
    @PM_ViktorOrban
    They tell me Russian gas is bad. They tell me we should stop buying it. But nobody tells us how to replace Russian gas. Not in five years, but tomorrow. We need to run our economy, it’s as simple as that.


    https://twitter.com/PM_ViktorOrban/status/1582792844565446657

    "I would like to be as untouchable as Putin one day, it's as simple as that"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    1.24
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Not every day one sees a really big, globally-recognised brand die.

    Conservative & Unionist Party RIP
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Sunak most popular to replace Truss amongst the general population, Boris most popular to replace Truss amongst Conservative 2019 voters according to a Peston poll.

    Both still trail Starmer though Johnson gets to 30% and Sunak 27% head to head

    https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1582810159331803137?s=20&t=g1is5R42-IiZqyedJhlAEA
  • Leon said:

    I have a furtive, existential worry that the circus of present British politics is just another symptom of a deeper and lethal global malaise

    Like a comical yellow face revealing a failing liver



    After years of mocking US political shenanigans, UK now flattering us in most sincere manner possible.

    Short of PM trying to cling to power by leading attack on Palace of Westminster, that is. NOT than I'm ruling it out.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    If there's a sub-20 poll in next two days then she is finally done surely??
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    They'll be fine until something comes along that could replace them. Then they wont be
    French socialist party says 'hi'.
    Until centre right voters have something else to vote for they survive, and they have massive local government presence and ground campaign people. Thats all still there. The country isnt just going to hand Labour all the seats, theyre not stupid.
    Exactly it would require Farage's party to replace the Conservatives as the main party of the right
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    They'll be fine until something comes along that could replace them. Then they wont be
    French socialist party says 'hi'.
    French socialist party was replaced by Melenchon's party as the main party of the left while losing liberal centrists to Macron
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    This might be liberals in the 20s territory yet for the Tories.
    I think they'll be lucky to come out with a 1997 result
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770

    Leon said:

    I have a furtive, existential worry that the circus of present British politics is just another symptom of a deeper and lethal global malaise

    Like a comical yellow face revealing a failing liver

    We need Nostraleondamus to tell us how it's all going to play out.
    We all have our eyeballs melted before the 1922 get their act together and finally meet to change the rules?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    kle4 said:

    pm215 said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    Genuinely yes. Amazingly sudden, and I don't think they will realise the hole they are in until a GE, but it's there.
    Maybe, but if you forced me to bet I'd say 'no'. FPTP means there's a lot of ruin in a major party. Even if the Tories lose huge numbers of seats they're unlikely to fall below the lib dems in seat count, and they still will have a national structure, activists and residual supporter base. They might be out of power for a long time, but most peoples' memories for political shenanigans are short.
    Even in these riotus times (and gods, I thought we'd past that point by now), betting on continuity is generally correct. I agree, they might be terribly wounded, but not mortally so as the LDs are not the nearest alternative and Farage's mob are as changable as the seasons so what'd be the point when who knows what they'll be tomorrow?

    But that it is even a prospect is astonishing.
    My assessment on party of HM Official Opposition after next election:

    Con 73%
    Lab 12%
    LD 12%
    SNP 3%

    A lot of the models say SNP has a better chance than this, but I only see a very narrow window between the Tories losing enough of their seats to bring the SNP into play without the LDs picking up enough to almost immediately close that option off.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770

    Not every day one sees a really big, globally-recognised brand die.

    Conservative & Unionist Party RIP

    I thought you were going to say the Russian army there.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    If there's a sub-20 poll in next two days then she is finally done surely??

    Shes gone tomorrow. 100%
    Today was so stark and so grotesque its now inevitable
  • HYUFD said:

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    They'll be fine until something comes along that could replace them. Then they wont be
    French socialist party says 'hi'.
    Until centre right voters have something else to vote for they survive, and they have massive local government presence and ground campaign people. Thats all still there. The country isnt just going to hand Labour all the seats, theyre not stupid.
    Exactly it would require Farage's party to replace the Conservatives as the main party of the right
    I am sure you can help in that
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    She must be a Lib Dem sleeper? Surely?

    How can one woman single-handedly destroy an entire political party?
  • If there's a sub-20 poll in next two days then she is finally done surely??

    Shes gone tomorrow. 100%
    Today was so stark and so grotesque its now inevitable
    I hope you are right
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Has Thérèse Coffey gone yet?
  • Weather or not you want it report

    Seattle now has worst air quality of any major urban center in world with AQI = 236 = very unhealthy.

    Which is BETTER than some areas north & east of city, which are 300 plus = hazardous
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,711

    If there's a sub-20 poll in next two days then she is finally done surely??

    Already been one, 12th Oct, people polling
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    If there's a sub-20 poll in next two days then she is finally done surely??

    Shes gone tomorrow. 100%
    Today was so stark and so grotesque its now inevitable
    Gone gone or , three months caretaking first? She needs to go go. In which case who is PM? The cabinet will have to appoint someone. Coffey?
  • I remember posting numerous times back in the day that who ever was holding the ball when interest rates had to be raised to historic norms there would be hell to pay for them.

    The Tories have manage to trash themselves before that even happens over the next year or so.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Not every day one sees a really big, globally-recognised brand die.

    Conservative & Unionist Party RIP

    It's been taken over by the Conservative & Unionist Neoliberal Toxic Sect
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    The Tories have well and truly Ratnered themselves.

    There comes a point where a reputation is simply beyond restoration. This is no longer a Lab 1979, Con 1997 or Lab 2010 level of tarnish.

    I know it's easy to get caught up in the moment but could we be seeing some kind of epochal political change here?

    Might be so epochal we Scots might hang around.

    If the English start to detest the Tories too, we can maybe rebuild trust.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    I'm curious whether the markets will react to all this. That kind of shit starts again and it is over for Truss.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Eabhal said:

    If there's a sub-20 poll in next two days then she is finally done surely??

    Already been one, 12th Oct, people polling
    I’m looking forward to their first sub-10 poll.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    Weather or not you want it report

    Seattle now has worst air quality of any major urban center in world with AQI = 236 = very unhealthy.

    Which is BETTER than some areas north & east of city, which are 300 plus = hazardous

    What happened to the rain? Did the gods not accept your sacrifices?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    I remember posting numerous times back in the day that who ever was holding the ball when interest rates had to be raised to historic norms there would be hell to pay for them.

    The Tories have manage to trash themselves before that even happens over the next year or so.

    But they will still be clinging to the ball even as Ratnered no-hopers, so they are going to get the blame for interest rate rises too.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444

    If there's a sub-20 poll in next two days then she is finally done surely??

    19% in a poll a week ago.

    17% was May's lowest. Wouldn't be surprised if they poll below 15% soon, especially with the right-wing pushing the coup angle.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
    As a Tory, could you see Boris’s return?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited October 2022

    I remember posting numerous times back in the day that who ever was holding the ball when interest rates had to be raised to historic norms there would be hell to pay for them.

    The Tories have manage to trash themselves before that even happens over the next year or so.

    But they will still be clinging to the ball even as Ratnered no-hopers, so they are going to get the blame for interest rate rises too.
    That's what i meant. There is still loads more blame to come, when businesses go bust & people lose their homes.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Not every day one sees a really big, globally-recognised brand die.

    Conservative & Unionist Party RIP

    I thought you were going to say the Russian army there.
    A truly outstanding day in that case.
    Two fuckers down.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    edited October 2022

    Leon said:

    I have a furtive, existential worry that the circus of present British politics is just another symptom of a deeper and lethal global malaise

    Like a comical yellow face revealing a failing liver

    We need Nostraleondamus to tell us how it's all going to play out.
    We all have our eyeballs melted before the 1922 get their act together and finally meet to change the rules?
    I suspect the rules may not need to change, Brady or AN Other will turn up with something that Truss realises that her sheer stubborness cant fight off.

    Dont forget the family influence on her either. Personally things must be so stinkingly bad for this woman's general life that someone close to home might just tell her to turn it in.
  • HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
    You really do not get it do you

    Members are the toxic part of this disaster for the party
  • Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
    As a Tory, could you see Boris’s return?
    He is desperate for it but it is not going to happen
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Leon said:

    I have a furtive, existential worry that the circus of present British politics is just another symptom of a deeper and lethal global malaise

    Like a comical yellow face revealing a failing liver

    We need Nostraleondamus to tell us how it's all going to play out.
    We all have our eyeballs melted before the 1922 get their act together and finally meet to change the rules?
    Where does the alien probe fit in?

    Ouch! Wish I hadn't asked now.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Perhaps the king will step in. Only to make sure his subjects have a "functioning government", mind.

    Meanwhile only ~18000 have signed the Independent's petition calling for a GE.
  • Weather or not you want it report

    Seattle now has worst air quality of any major urban center in world with AQI = 236 = very unhealthy.

    Which is BETTER than some areas north & east of city, which are 300 plus = hazardous

    What happened to the rain? Did the gods not accept your sacrifices?
    No rain forecast until Friday. We've had virtually zilch since June.

    Unfortunately, the totem poles need to redress this situation, were stolen by some upper-class English twits a century or more ago, and are now in the British Museum.
  • OllyT said:

    kle4 said:

    Bring back May.

    Might well be what happens.
    Can't see it - would they really want the next GE campaign to be fronted by the leader who nearly managed to lose to Corbyn in 2017?
    Being 55 seats ahead is NOT "nearly losing". See 1964 or Feb 1974 for really close results.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
    As a Tory, could you see Boris’s return?
    On tonight's Peston poll not impossible, given Boris is still 2019 Conservative voters preference for Conservative leader. Though I think Sunak more likely who is the general public's preferred choice


    https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1582810159331803137?s=20&t=g1is5R42-IiZqyedJhlAEA
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Not every day one sees a really big, globally-recognised brand die.

    Conservative & Unionist Party RIP

    It's been taken over by the Conservative & Unionist Neoliberal Toxic Sect
    It was a reverse takeover by the BNP, UKIP and Brexit Party. They couldn’t win at the polls, so they infiltrated the empty carcass of a once mighty beast. They managed to fool the public until the stench of decomposing moral fibre became overpowering.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,452

    Leon said:

    I have a furtive, existential worry that the circus of present British politics is just another symptom of a deeper and lethal global malaise

    Like a comical yellow face revealing a failing liver

    We need Nostraleondamus to tell us how it's all going to play out.
    I have absolutely no fucking idea. And I don’t often say that!


    As a distraction - for any railway fans - and I know PB has a few - this Train I’m on is probably the most impressive train journey I have done in my life. In terms of beauty per mile

    It is insanely expensive (ok I’m not paying but I’ve asked) and yet probably worth it





  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Weather or not you want it report

    Seattle now has worst air quality of any major urban center in world with AQI = 236 = very unhealthy.

    Which is BETTER than some areas north & east of city, which are 300 plus = hazardous

    What happened to the rain? Did the gods not accept your sacrifices?
    No rain forecast until Friday. We've had virtually zilch since June.

    Unfortunately, the totem poles need to redress this situation, were stolen by some upper-class English twits a century or more ago, and are now in the British Museum.
    Not doing much good over here
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a furtive, existential worry that the circus of present British politics is just another symptom of a deeper and lethal global malaise

    Like a comical yellow face revealing a failing liver

    We need Nostraleondamus to tell us how it's all going to play out.
    I have absolutely no fucking idea. And I don’t often say that!


    As a distraction - for any railway fans - and I know PB has a few - this Train I’m on is probably the most impressive train journey I have done in my life. In terms of beauty per mile

    It is insanely expensive (ok I’m not paying but I’ve asked) and yet probably worth it





    Rocky Mountaineer is supposed the dogs bollocks.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Seriously, Tory MPs looking for the least painful way out of this: tell Truss to resign and ask Theresa May to take over as PM while you work out how to change the leadership election rules.

    I am no fan of May but if you aren't going vote for Christmas by calling a GE, it's the least worst option for the country and certainly for your party.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
    Boris resigned. MPs backed him in the no confidence vote.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Jonathan said:

    If there's a sub-20 poll in next two days then she is finally done surely??

    Shes gone tomorrow. 100%
    Today was so stark and so grotesque its now inevitable
    Gone gone or , three months caretaking first? She needs to go go. In which case who is PM? The cabinet will have to appoint someone. Coffey?
    Gone gone and Sunak or Mordaunt, with the party leadership question to be settled afterwards (fudged in whatever way is needed to fit)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
    As a Tory, could you see Boris’s return?
    He is desperate for it but it is not going to happen
    It's all imploded far too early for him.

    He wanted a steady 18 months of decline under Truss followed by panic six months out from the GE and a call to bring him back as an election winner.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
    Boris resigned. MPs backed him in the no confidence vote.
    Then turned on him weeks later
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
    As a Tory, could you see Boris’s return?
    He is desperate for it but it is not going to happen
    It's all imploded far too early for him.

    He wanted a steady 18 months of decline under Truss followed by panic six months out from the GE and a call to bring him back as an election winner.

    The Conservative & Unionist Party
    The Russian army
    The Oaf

    That’s 3 fuckers buggered.

    Good day. A very good day.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    This needs to Cabinet to pull the rug on Truss.

    This goes further than Truss.
    But nothing can start to be fixed until Truss is no longer PM.
    She has to go. The healing can’t really start until they all go. Personal self interest is the only thing holding the Tory majority together. Without it no replacement could command a majority. They hate Sunak. They hate Mourdaunt. There is no coherent safety first policy.

    They need to go.
    The most important point is this: the party membership needs shooting like the rabid senile witless dog it effectively is. There is no more tory party until we can be sure future leaders will not be selected by drooling near-fascist twentyfive quidder pig shagging fuckwits like H*U*D.
    Except I voted for Sunak and I note amongst Tory 2019 voters tonight Boris is still the preferred Tory leader according to a Peston poll. It was Tory MPs not members who removed Boris
    You miss the point. Boris would never have been PM in the first place, given a sane, moral and adult electorate.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Has Grant Shapps resigned yet?
This discussion has been closed.