Trusses speech today was quite astounding. She keeps saying that her main aim in politics is to 'go for growth'. But this is essentially a platitude. And her plan for growth has just failed, before it even got started. There was no real acknowledgement of the fact she had sacked the chancellor or explanation of the reasons why. And then she just fell back on robotic answers in the Q and A session. This is all very annoying for people who are looking to politicians for answers about the cost of living problems. I don't think she can go on for very long, even as a zombie prime minister.
Key point there that I was about to make. She regrets him leaving, they are in agreement, old friend... so why sack him?
A human sacrifice to the gods of the free market.
Yeah exactly. We have got to the end of the day with no explanation of why the chancellor needed to be sacked, nor is there any real acceptance on her part that she may have got things wrong.
If it was a deal - "you can stay if you put Hunt in charge of the money" - that would be impossible to explain in public. Maybe that?
Kwasi Kwarteng believes that Liz Truss has bought herself just “a few weeks” by sacking him and reversing her budget because the “wagons are circling” on the end of her premiership.
From a betting perspective - I still don't see it (where by it I mean 2022 exit).
Should she go? Yes.
But how? The only plausible way (to my mind) is a general election.
It may happen. May be the right thing to do. Equally the tories *may* manage to coalesce around a single candidate now. Who would that be then? Penny? Rishi? I don't see either. I'd love it to be Kemi but it would never be her in these circumstances.
Better than evens chance one of the above, or any other situation in which Lizzy is out by December occurs? That feels wrong. I think market should be around 4 at this point.
I'm not especially articulate or well connected particularly compared to many of the posters here... but I have an excellent political betting record. You can lay 1.8 for a 2022 exit as conservative leader on Betfair atm and I strongly recommend that you do.
I got on Truss exit in 2022 at 16, am nicely green now.
Oh I'd back the hell out of 16, obviously
I'm saying the market is way too short, not that it can't happen...
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
I went on a motorcycle tour of Belgium with my brother. We only had 125's so didn't want to go too far. We stopped at all the battlefields, as a bit of a theme. We finished appropriately at Dunkirk.
South of the Meuse is lovely rolling countryside, North is a bit flat, but interesting towns.
Brussel/Brouxelles has a museum with a whole herd of Iguanodon dinosaurs. And the beers are quite something.
Quite a day for Hunt. Gone from being a has been with a disastrous recent leadership campaign, to the most powerful guy in government. Completely out of the blue, too.
Yes a weird one. He had a disastrous leadership race, showing little support.
Perhaps that is the reason. He isn't seen as a threat by Truss.
I have seen film footage of Attlee stepping off an aircraft to be greeted by a reporter who asked whether he had any comments to make. His reply was 'No'.
I saw the TikTok at the time, it really went viral.
What happens with the Daily Mail and its 'At last! A True Tory Budget.' That must all now feel a tad embarrassing.
If backing the Nazi Party didn’t cause them to die of embarrassment, nothing will.
It's always struck me as rather weird that the Daily Mail continues to be lambasted for supporting Mosley, when the Daily Mirror did so far more actively for far longer and yet that almost never gets mentioned.
On the other hand, hasn't the Mirror repented?
they supported Corbyn.
I'd say the jury is out on that.
I think the history of the Mail and the Mirror both supporting Mosley is rather different because... (A) at the time, both papers were owned by Rothermere and reflected their owner's views; the Mirror was later sold and changed its politics (B) by contrast the Mail's history is one of continuity. You can find racist articles from 1900 or from 2000 or later. It's carried comment pieces praising the likes of Le Pen from time to time.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
Kwasi Kwarteng believes that Liz Truss has bought herself just “a few weeks” by sacking him and reversing her budget because the “wagons are circling” on the end of her premiership.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
I went on a motorcycle tour of Belgium with my brother. We only had 125's so didn't want to go too far. We stopped at all the battlefields, as a bit of a theme. We finished appropriately at Dunkirk.
South of the Meuse is lovely rolling countryside, North is a bit flat, but interesting towns.
Brussel/Brouxelles has a museum with a whole herd of Iguanodon dinosaurs. And the beers are quite something.
Ooh! I shall have to go back, Iguanadon is my second favourite, after the pachycephalosaurus of course.
We had plenty of beers, and kept coming across rusting WW2 tanks in farmers fields in the Ardennes. I wonder if they are still there.
As wrong as the Russians may have been to imply that NATO and Ukraine were Nazis, does it ever strike anyone that if NATO were genuinely anti-Nazi, it might want to refrain from picking this moment to finalise Sweden's membership, given the role of the extreme right in propping up the new coalition government there?
Quite a day for Hunt. Gone from being a has been with a disastrous recent leadership campaign, to the most powerful guy in government. Completely out of the blue, too.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
Hunt might steady the ship but the captain remains Truss .
Labour have got the messaging right , even if mortgage rates were going up anyway the Truss Kwarteng budget will be blamed. That’s a lot of very angry people who won’t forgive or forget .
Labour also being careful to point out that the years of low growth railed against by Truss were under the Cons. This is looking ahead to if/when they ditch her and attempt yet another reincarnation.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
Tory MPs concerned they might lose the next election.
They've already won 4 elections in a row so it would be surprising if they won the next one whatever the circumstances.
That would normally be true, however the circumstances were an 80+ majority, so despite going for a fifth win in a row was still a very good chance until Boris erased all goodwill and Truss set fire to the house.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
The sudden appearance of Hunt, though perhaps better than other alternatives, does strike me as the last throw of the dice by desperate show-runners trying to avoid cancellation.
The only thing left is to have all the regulars die in a horrific train crash.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
I went on a motorcycle tour of Belgium with my brother. We only had 125's so didn't want to go too far. We stopped at all the battlefields, as a bit of a theme. We finished appropriately at Dunkirk.
South of the Meuse is lovely rolling countryside, North is a bit flat, but interesting towns.
Brussel/Brouxelles has a museum with a whole herd of Iguanodon dinosaurs. And the beers are quite something.
Ooh! I shall have to go back, Iguanadon is my second favourite, after the pachycephalosaurus of course.
We had plenty of beers, and kept coming across rusting WW2 tanks in farmers fields in the Ardennes. I wonder if they are still there.
You shouldn't have mentioned the tanks. Russia will be wanting to recommission them.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
I went on a motorcycle tour of Belgium with my brother. We only had 125's so didn't want to go too far. We stopped at all the battlefields, as a bit of a theme. We finished appropriately at Dunkirk.
South of the Meuse is lovely rolling countryside, North is a bit flat, but interesting towns.
Brussel/Brouxelles has a museum with a whole herd of Iguanodon dinosaurs. And the beers are quite something.
Ooh! I shall have to go back, Iguanadon is my second favourite, after the pachycephalosaurus of course.
We had plenty of beers, and kept coming across rusting WW2 tanks in farmers fields in the Ardennes. I wonder if they are still there.
They have them on Wight too but I am sure you know that. I used to go and hunt for footprints near the fossil log-jam at Hanover Point when we stayed with friends at Yarmouth.
The sudden appearance of Hunt, though perhaps better than other alternatives, does strike me as the last throw of the dice by desperate show-runners trying to avoid cancellation.
The only thing left is to have all the regulars die in a horrific train crash.
Nah. It's still 2016 and David Cameron has just woken up from a bad dream. He reaches for the phone and cancels the referendum...
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
I went on a motorcycle tour of Belgium with my brother. We only had 125's so didn't want to go too far. We stopped at all the battlefields, as a bit of a theme. We finished appropriately at Dunkirk.
South of the Meuse is lovely rolling countryside, North is a bit flat, but interesting towns.
Brussel/Brouxelles has a museum with a whole herd of Iguanodon dinosaurs. And the beers are quite something.
I've done time in Brussels. I found it a touch dull but a very easy city to live in.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
I have been saying for a while that Truss would sack Kwasi to try and save her job.
Hiring Hunt first though is pretty damn cold...
People did suggest that she would have a problem if no-one was willing to accept that job, so it showed some awareness to secure a replacement before creating a vacancy.
In fact, the sacking was even more brutal than it appeared. Truss decided to dismiss Kwarteng hours earlier, contacting his successor, Jeremy Hunt, at 9.30am to offer him the job while he was on holiday with his wife in Belgium.
Hunt asked for a moment to think about it before calling back and accepting. Truss said she wanted their relationship to be similar to that of David Cameron and George Osborne, based on trust and mutual respect. Hunt said that was the only way it could work.
Asking for a friend, exactly when is Liz going to surprise on the upside?
A negotiated settlement on the NI protocol on a surprisingly short timetable would do it.
(No, I don’t believe it either…)
If you were the EU side in the negotiations how much effort would you put into them, not knowing whether the next PM would stand by whatever Truss agreed to?
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 9m Confirmed. The Chancellor of the United Kingdom first learnt he was being sacked when he read it on Twitter. That, of itself, should be a resigning issue for Liz Truss.
I've forgotten already. We had all this hyperbolic talk with May and Johnson and it reached mahoosive levels before the end happened. I wonder if any natural language processing bods or there could go through all those old WhatsApps and tweets and find the DEFCON level of febrility that truly means the end of a Tory later is nigh. It's not like the self learning won't have enough material to chomp through.
'...overhaul of No. 10...' Haven't we already had three of those this year?
Since 2016 the Tory government with its sequence of six chancellors (which most people seem to think will soon be seven) has increasingly looked like a failing local council that has a habit of getting itself into such messes (illegal pissups, grope time in private clubs, utterly batshit budgets, trips to Italy to dodgy characters' castles) that it's permanently reviewing this, that, or the other.
Trusses speech today was quite astounding. She keeps saying that her main aim in politics is to 'go for growth'. But this is essentially a platitude. And her plan for growth has just failed, before it even got started. There was no real acknowledgement of the fact she had sacked the chancellor or explanation of the reasons why. And then she just fell back on robotic answers in the Q and A session. This is all very annoying for people who are looking to politicians for answers about the cost of living problems. I don't think she can go on for very long, even as a zombie prime minister.
Key point there that I was about to make. She regrets him leaving, they are in agreement, old friend... so why sack him?
A human sacrifice to the gods of the free market.
Yeah exactly. We have got to the end of the day with no explanation of why the chancellor needed to be sacked, nor is there any real acceptance on her part that she may have got things wrong.
If it was a deal - "you can stay if you put Hunt in charge of the money" - that would be impossible to explain in public. Maybe that?
Yeah but politicians need to come up with some sort of answer to the questions everyone is asking. You are never going to really get the truth from politicians and everyone knows it, but they need to play the game. Truss just avoids the questions completely or comes up with absurd answers. I think people are nervous that she just doesn't have the right temprement for the job she is in and could mess something very serious up with bad consequences. Even if control of the money is handed over to Hunt, she is still there oestensibly as leader. She has basically lost the confidence of everyone in her ability to the job she is in, so she shouldn't be able to go on for more than a few weeks.
'...overhaul of No. 10...' Haven't we already had three of those this year?
Overhaul of No 10 is obvious code for 'we want a different PM', as if that were not already clear.
Changing economic course, at least to some degree, hives off some of the dissenters. Yes, a lot will still be worried about the utterly dreadful polling situation and Truss's ability to change that, but it prevents the discontented from forming a unified mass. She's bought herself some time, and the reaction to force things further tonight is the firmer opponents realising that the play for time may have worked and trying to prevent that.
What happens with the Daily Mail and its 'At last! A True Tory Budget.' That must all now feel a tad embarrassing.
If backing the Nazi Party didn’t cause them to die of embarrassment, nothing will.
It's always struck me as rather weird that the Daily Mail continues to be lambasted for supporting Mosley, when the Daily Mirror did so far more actively for far longer and yet that almost never gets mentioned.
On the other hand, hasn't the Mirror repented?
they supported Corbyn.
I'd say the jury is out on that.
I think the history of the Mail and the Mirror both supporting Mosley is rather different because... (A) at the time, both papers were owned by Rothermere and reflected their owner's views; the Mirror was later sold and changed its politics (B) by contrast the Mail's history is one of continuity. You can find racist articles from 1900 or from 2000 or later. It's carried comment pieces praising the likes of Le Pen from time to time.
Not very long ago - certainly during Sadiq Khan's time as Mayor of London - the Mail had Katie Hopkins spouting racist bile in her regular columns - "Londonistan" and all that.
I remember this because one of her columns provoked me, for the only time in my long life, to submit a formal complaint to the Press Complaints Commission. I'm pleased to report that her column was pulled shortly afterwards.
Liz was appallingly wooden in that press conference, but I would have thought the markets should be satisfied now.
They they’re not is a bit disturbing.
Why should the markets be satisfied - your average bond trader in New York isn’t like a friendly primary school teacher who gives rewards for effort. What they’ve seen is the unfunded borrowing black hole reduced from £62bn to £43 bn but no clear statement from the PM that she understands that the strangers upon whose kindness we depend to fund our lifestyles have had enough of lending money to us, particularly when they could lend it to the US government instead at a higher rate and with greater security. Unless there’s an unequivocal rejection of ‘Trussonomics’ accompanied by a clear distance between its proponents and the levers of power, I suspect the upward pressure on rates will continue.
There are 48 hours now until markets re-open. I think that within that timeframe Hunt needs to make it absolutely clear that ‘Trussonomics’ are dead and that he’s not going to feel bound by the promises Truss made to the Tory membership.
Comments
I'm saying the market is way too short, not that it can't happen...
Cycling.
Food.
Culture.
Perhaps that is the reason. He isn't seen as a threat by Truss.
They've already won 4 elections in a row so it would be surprising if they won the next one whatever the circumstances.
But perhaps Hunt was in Bruges.
Reverse takeover by the BNP, UKIP and Brexit Party.
(A) at the time, both papers were owned by Rothermere and reflected their owner's views; the Mirror was later sold and changed its politics
(B) by contrast the Mail's history is one of continuity. You can find racist articles from 1900 or from 2000 or later. It's carried comment pieces praising the likes of Le Pen from time to time.
We had plenty of beers, and kept coming across rusting WW2 tanks in farmers fields in the Ardennes. I wonder if they are still there.
But she is heavily odds on to go before the next GE.
Implies that IF she does go it's about 50:50 whether it's by resignation or losing a VONC.
Beats Magaluf.
Can anyone beat that?
Several ministers who are publicly supportive believe it’s over
Senior No 10 officials also tell us that the game is up - it’s just a question of when
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1581034399402860545
The only thing left is to have all the regulars die in a horrific train crash.
They have them on Wight too but I am sure you know that. I used to go and hunt for footprints near the fossil log-jam at Hanover Point when we stayed with friends at Yarmouth.
Energy* 66.8 kWh @ 7.1230 p/kWh £ 4.76
Standing charge 29 days @ 25.9230 p/day £ 7.52
Five quid of gas in a month
The rebels - who until now have been relatively disorganised - are expected to come out publicly and in force
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1581034911745466368
Hiring Hunt first though is pretty damn cold...
(No, I don’t believe it either…)
Amsterdam to Brussels
Almost exactly 200km and very flat with loads of decent places to stop on the way.
That loyalty is wearing thin - they told her they were embarrassed, called for overhaul of No 10 and said party discipline is totally gone
Coffey said govt is determined to prove ‘flipping OBR’ wrong
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1581036732543168512
Still "the markets are wrong"...
Don't miss it.
Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
There’s despair in Cabinet tonight
Several ministers who are publicly supportive believe it’s over
Senior No 10 officials also tell us that the game is up - it’s just a question of when
The GOP have moved ahead in Nevada according to 538.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/senate/2022/nevada/
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
9m
Confirmed. The Chancellor of the United Kingdom first learnt he was being sacked when he read it on Twitter. That, of itself, should be a resigning issue for Liz Truss.
(Be good for bettors too).
Changing economic course, at least to some degree, hives off some of the dissenters. Yes, a lot will still be worried about the utterly dreadful polling situation and Truss's ability to change that, but it prevents the discontented from forming a unified mass. She's bought herself some time, and the reaction to force things further tonight is the firmer opponents realising that the play for time may have worked and trying to prevent that.
I remember this because one of her columns provoked me, for the only time in my long life, to submit a formal complaint to the Press Complaints Commission. I'm pleased to report that her column was pulled shortly afterwards.
There are 48 hours now until markets re-open. I think that within that timeframe Hunt needs to make it absolutely clear that ‘Trussonomics’ are dead and that he’s not going to feel bound by the promises Truss made to the Tory membership.