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A LAB majority still longer than evens in the betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,852
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    Canada is one of the few places where legally married same sex couples can legally defend their cannabis farm with guns.
    So basically, laws on public safety are a bit weedy?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    Truss should go and be replaced immediately by someone who has the confidence of the markets. As luck would have it, such a candidate is available in Rishi Sunak. Me for @NewStatesman on why that isn’t about to happen. https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/10/david-gauke-conservatives-trapped-what-now
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,002
    Okay - it's time for another session of "Educating Stodge".

    I see the DJIA is falling this evening on the back of some strong payroll data in the US this afternoon. I presume said data puts pressure on the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates to slow economic activity.

    I also see the greenback is on the march up as are oil prices.

    I can understand why rising interest rates wouldn't be good for equities - why risk stocks and shares when, after nearly 15 years, there are some other sources offering decent returns?

    However, I suspect much of this isn't good for the UK either. Do we want to be raising interest rates to protect sterling or do we cut them as a way of encouraging economic activity (after all, a devalued sterling is good for exporters though not much good for oil prices, already moving towards $95 a barrel).

    I suppose another consequence of rising interest rates is it becomes more expensive to borrow money so the debt management costs will eat into more of our public expenditure even though I'm told rising inflation will help the debt problem over time.

    Rising fuel costs means more inflation which in turn causes more problems.

    Is this one of those "frying pan and fire" situations of which I've heard so much?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,690
    edited October 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Good evening

    I have been busy today but catching up Truss goes from bad to worse and needs removing from office fast

    The mps return on Monday and the conservatives ones need to come together and end this unacceptable period of utter lunacy and, though it will not stop Starmer becoming PM, it may save some seats and at least provide an opposition

    Mind you by 2024 Starmer is going to be facing years of tax rises, public sector cuts and austerity demanded by the OBR and IMF which can in part be blamed on covid and the war, but Truss and the useless Kwarteng by their actions have allowed Labour to put all the blame on the conservative party

    I am not often on the same page as @HYUFD but I agree a coronation of Wallace as PM and Sunak as COE is about the only chance the conservatives have of mitigating this disaster

    I am ashamed of Truss/ Kwarteng who have made me politically homeless
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    Today's @Omnisis poll moves our post-#Brexit poll of polls to 'In EU' 55 (+1); 'Out EU' 45 (-1). First time the lead of 'In' over 'Out' has been this large. https://bit.ly/3DbYoL4
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,486
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    Canada is one of the few places where legally married same sex couples can legally defend their cannabis farm with guns.
    Along with Colorado, Alaska, Oregon, Washington DC, California, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, Michigan, Vermont, Guam, Virginia, New Mexico and Rhode Island.

    The UK is falling quite backwards on this actually.
    Reasonable people may disagree on such a thing. I don't think concerns should be brushed aside merely because other places have taken an action. But equally, those most resistent to the idea act like those other places must have done it with no thought or analysis whatsoever, or that it is irrelevant.
    Nor in denial of the mounting real world evidence now being provided by similar societies.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    According to the Governor, Assent was refused by Her Majesty, not His Majesty, so probably not the new duo.

    But it was refused by the Foreign Secretary under Her Majesty, which would be apart from Her Majesty's final couple of days would be a certain Right Hon. Mary Elizabeth Truss.

    And no not first time, it was refused on the same topic in another overseas territory a couple of years ago. Assent's not been refused in the UK in that time period, it has been refused overseas.
    Have you got a link? I'm interested in what the British Foreign Secretary has to do with internal affairs in Bermuda.

    Thanks for the info about refusal of royal assent.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Legalise weed now.

    It causes mental illness in many users.
    The problems were caused, largely, by ludicrous increases in strength. Which in turn came from the incentives to make weed more compact for smuggling.

    Legalise, and use differential taxation to encourage a move back to more normal strengths. Bit like beer vs spirits….
    In the US, places where the weed is legal require them to give information about strength on the packet, in the same way as alcohol containers give an ABV.
    Not in all states, and almost all the product is insanely strong

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0230167#pone.0230167.ref028
  • ping said:

    “What the Treasury estimate is saying is that unless you target these tax breaks then you could end up paying huge amounts to subsidise economic activity that is happening anyway”

    https://www.ft.com/content/a3aea4e6-0b29-4783-a024-ad3629a3bc3e

    Of course, the cynical fkers know this, but that’s part of the plan. They then play off the legitimate grievances of existing businesses outside of these zones, to argue for lower business taxes across the board, paid for with deficit financing.

    Reaganomics, without the dollar. We’re barely even a reserve currency any more. An emerging market economy, becoming a submerging economy.

    Should apply to the entire country.

    Payroll tax is a pernicious tax. Payroll tax on new starters who are quite possibly unproductive, need training and may move on before they prove valuable even more so.

    Yet another time where the Treasury is worried about good policies because of the distorting effect of the payroll tax. Just like IR35 and the other nonsense.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,100
    edited October 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
  • nico679 said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That’s a disgraceful decision . Can you imagine the furore if Truss told Charles to block a UK Bill after parliament had approved that .

    Unless Charles is Trans, he's not blocked it. Her Majesty did.

    If Charles is Trans, then that's pretty interesting.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    IshmaelZ said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 52% (+2)
    CON: 20% (=)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 5% (=)
    RFM: 4% (+1)

    Via
    @PeoplePolling
    , 6 Oct.
    Changes w/ 29 Sep.

    Just like after Black Wednesday.

    Far worse than that.

    In 1992, the polls had been drifting blue-to-red all summer, and that drift continued at roughly the same speed. Even at Christmas '92, the score was roughly C33 L48.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1997_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Black Wednesday is the classic example of "news doesn't shift the polls".

    The last few weeks have been much much worse than Black Wednesday.
    We await @MoonRabbit 's exclusive analysis of the reasons behind the Tories being 32 points clear, were the numbers reversed
    Your and @CorrectHorseBattery3 ’a repeated attacks on @MoonRabbit Re pretty unpleasant.

    She may be wrong, but she’s interesting

    Still pondering wether I give that post a like 🤣
    Ewe should.
    But it also says I get everything wrong, I’m none sure of saying “so true - give that a like” 😆

    It’s also not true my friends Anabob & Horse are giving me a hard time - the truth is anyone posting the Tories are done for so at least 10yrs of Labour is coming I’m determined to give a hard time to. Have these people even followed UK politics for the last 55 years? 🤷‍♀️ as it was said in galaxy quest, don’t they even watch the show?

    UK politics is wild and febrile, because UK has some big issues not getting tackled very well - growth, productivity, post industrial economic transformation, social care and demographic time bomb, energy security, globalisation - arguably New Labour years didn’t help with these, the next Labour government rides a buckaroo-dandy of public opinion if not dealing with them, and can get thrown off pretty damn quick themselves if they don’t deliver. Winning power is no time for hubris, it’s time for sleeves up even harder work.

    Also of course, what is someone’s mentality if it’s all triumphalism and excitement at opinion polls right now? with workers rights, consumer rights, environmental protections and our welfare system in the hands of this government, and bonfire night approaching?

    Things havn’t been this bad since chief judge Cal took over mega city one. If there’s anyone claiming Universal Credit called Arthur A Aardvark, I suggest they pack a bag and flee.


    Seems to have left out @Leon 's ring on a necklace of doom.

    Rowson does draw Truss well, she does have these lovely big eyes which move slowly and then rest right on you, and she does have a very French-kissable mouth.

    Best of all is how he captures her vanity and madness.

    The other day RCS asked me, if this is a repeat of the 70s disrupters who ended up changing the world, who is the Keith Joseph? And I replied Truss herself.
    You want her to put your over her knee and spank you, in a switchy way, don't you?

    By all accounts, she would
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    stodge said:

    stodge said:


    Whatever is said on here, you can be certain no one in a senior position in the Labour, Lib Dem or any other non-Conservative Party is taking anything for granted. As you've said, if the voters swing, they can swing back and if he's any sense Starmer will continue doing what he's doing (which is basically what Blair did from 1995-97) which relies on two old adages.

    First, never interrupt your opponent when he is making a mistake (that's elementary politics)
    Second, don't frighten the horses - Labour need to be "boring" to a point - people may want "change" but not too much and not too soon. This isn't 1945 when Attlee could transform society - in 2024, Starmer will have to convince millions of disillusioned Conservatives the Labour Party he leads is a non-socialist party of the centre or centre-left.

    The contract he and the Left have unwittingly and unconsciously agreed is the same one Blair obtained - the Left will shut up or play loyal until the votes are counted and the majority is in the bag. If Starmer only wins by 50, he'll have an awkward squad of his own, if he wins by 200, he won't care.

    He will be able to expend a fair bit of public goodwill undoing the excesses of Kwarteng's libertarianism (the wonderful prospect is the electorate, in their good sense, will have forced BOTH the Labour and Conservative Parties to abandon their own extremisms for a generation) before he can even start re-shaping the country. Now, we can hope (or not) Starmer doesn't get derailed by external events as Blair did - the longer in office the more likely that becomes so the argument is be radical quickly.

    The one piece of good news I can offer beleaguered Tories, who have basically had the whip hand for the last 15 years or more - is, short of a complete existential wipeout (which I consider highly unlikely), the centre-right will be back. Nature abhors a vacuum and an opposition of some sort will emerge to the Labour hegemony. It should be the Conservatives and if they hold 100 seats or more it will be, at 50-100 seas there will be challenges from the LDs and the SNP. Sub 50 seats and the Conservative Party may need to undergo a transformation much as conservatism in Canada had to. It worked for them in time.

    Oh Stodge! You are living in fantasy land of Tory wipe outs too. A lot can happen in two years. Look at Mike in the header - Tories replace Truss with centre right leader, cabinet and policies and these polls can tighten right up in the year to the election.

    And why is this moment 95-97? Why not 1974-75? In the 1970s Labour were not the disrupters to the failing orthodoxy, and since 79 we have not seen a social market economy of the post war consensus - UK Capitalism of 2020s needs a reset, but I don’t hear it from Labour in fact on PB it’s “don't frighten the horses - Labour need to be "boring" to a point - people may want "change" but not too much and not too soon”

    In the 70s the right wing liberal-economic disrupters won, and if in 1974 I told you they were going to win, you would have laughed at me. Wouldn’t you?
    Without wishing to re-write history for you, that's not how I remember the 1970s. The Heath Government in 1974 was brought down by Union power (largely) but that didn't translate into a strong mandate for Labour who governed with a majority of 3 seats after October 1974.

    Callaghan and, let's be honest, the Lib-Lab Pact were getting on top of inflation in 1977-78 but the Unions wouldn't play ball - even in autumn 1978 it's believed, had Callaghan gone to the country, he might have won.

    The Winter of Discontent saw the Unions overplay their hand disastrously for the last time. Living through that winter convinced millions, if nothing else, Union power had to be curbed. Callaghan and Labour couldn't or wouldn't do it but Thatcher would.

    It's often forgotten her 1979 Manifesto was less radical than Heath's in 1970 but the Conservatives had unfinished business with the TUC.

    Rather like those who refused to accept the 2016 Referendum result, some in the Union movement believed they could run the country and control Government policy but that's not how democracy worked then or now.
    To be fair, you didn’t rewrite history, but talked us through ONLY PART of the history written on the wall.

    In 1974 When Sir Keith Joseph and Lady Thatcher set up the CPS to challenge the prevailing orthodoxy and post war consensus, and promote greater economic liberalism, they weren’t taken seriously at all - arguably all the votes in the 1974 elections were for the post war consensus and few for what the CPS stood for. someone flagging up the coming 1980’s, end of post war consensus and social market economy, eighteen straight years of Thatcherism and its influence beyond that into years of New Labour and Osbornomics would have sounded a lone loony voice in 74, would they have not? Even in 75, 76. An unpopular and struggling Labour Party made whoever the opposition leader and whoever best placed to kick Labour out of power popular and electable - this, ultimately, being the real basis of our electoral democracy, a lack of thought for what politicians actually believe in and will do with power, just kick one out for muggings to have go at the problems.

    Just look at todays opinion polls, Labour so far ahead - what is known about their solutions to the problems?

    Today UK has huge challenges it has been ignoring and fiddling around for far too long - growth, productivity, post industrial economic transformation, social care and demographic time bomb, energy security, globalisation - everyone needs to be brave and put answers to them on the table and go with them when in power, leaving only your opponents as the ones offering up such simple solutions to the nations problems without your challenge is a dangerous stupid game to play. Any Labour supporter sure of a second term in 2029 if they don’t deliver growth? Then take Truss philosophy and key moments from her speech, and imagine it in the hands of people who can actually write and deliver a speech, and who crucially by 2028 ride high in the polls due to a struggling Labour government.

    STOP playing safety first. Lay the ground for the One Nation solution to each of these issues, or history can repeat itself sure enough.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    I think the BoE is going to have to go big in Nov.

    Very big.

    150bps?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,820
    edited October 2022

    ping said:

    “What the Treasury estimate is saying is that unless you target these tax breaks then you could end up paying huge amounts to subsidise economic activity that is happening anyway”

    https://www.ft.com/content/a3aea4e6-0b29-4783-a024-ad3629a3bc3e

    Of course, the cynical fkers know this, but that’s part of the plan. They then play off the legitimate grievances of existing businesses outside of these zones, to argue for lower business taxes across the board, paid for with deficit financing.

    Reaganomics, without the dollar. We’re barely even a reserve currency any more. An emerging market economy, becoming a submerging economy.

    Should apply to the entire country.

    Payroll tax is a pernicious tax. Payroll tax on new starters who are quite possibly unproductive, need training and may move on before they prove valuable even more so.

    Yet another time where the Treasury is worried about good policies because of the distorting effect of the payroll tax. Just like IR35 and the other nonsense.
    I have gone through most of my career classed as a "non-productive overhead" - charming really
  • Scott_xP said:


    ...

    That is very good
  • I just do not see the Tories actually getting another new leader.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,655
    stodge said:

    Okay - it's time for another session of "Educating Stodge".

    I see the DJIA is falling this evening on the back of some strong payroll data in the US this afternoon. I presume said data puts pressure on the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates to slow economic activity.

    I also see the greenback is on the march up as are oil prices.

    I can understand why rising interest rates wouldn't be good for equities - why risk stocks and shares when, after nearly 15 years, there are some other sources offering decent returns?

    However, I suspect much of this isn't good for the UK either. Do we want to be raising interest rates to protect sterling or do we cut them as a way of encouraging economic activity (after all, a devalued sterling is good for exporters though not much good for oil prices, already moving towards $95 a barrel).

    I suppose another consequence of rising interest rates is it becomes more expensive to borrow money so the debt management costs will eat into more of our public expenditure even though I'm told rising inflation will help the debt problem over time.

    Rising fuel costs means more inflation which in turn causes more problems.

    Is this one of those "frying pan and fire" situations of which I've heard so much?

    Two factors. First, the global factors driving pay settlements and US payroll data also affect the UK in the same way. Second, global investors will see sterling (and euro, etc.) investments as being worse payoffs in dollar terms, unless interest rates and exchange rates adjust.

    Inflation eats up the real value of legacy debt stocks - but as you say, the cost of servicing debt rises, which applies to all the new debt you / we take on, and any variable rate debt of households and businesses.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,650
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 52% (+2)
    CON: 20% (=)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 5% (=)
    RFM: 4% (+1)

    Via
    @PeoplePolling
    , 6 Oct.
    Changes w/ 29 Sep.

    Just like after Black Wednesday.

    Far worse than that.

    In 1992, the polls had been drifting blue-to-red all summer, and that drift continued at roughly the same speed. Even at Christmas '92, the score was roughly C33 L48.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1997_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Black Wednesday is the classic example of "news doesn't shift the polls".

    The last few weeks have been much much worse than Black Wednesday.
    We await @MoonRabbit 's exclusive analysis of the reasons behind the Tories being 32 points clear, were the numbers reversed
    Your and @CorrectHorseBattery3 ’a repeated attacks on @MoonRabbit Re pretty unpleasant.

    She may be wrong, but she’s interesting

    Still pondering wether I give that post a like 🤣
    Ewe should.
    But it also says I get everything wrong, I’m none sure of saying “so true - give that a like” 😆

    It’s also not true my friends Anabob & Horse are giving me a hard time - the truth is anyone posting the Tories are done for so at least 10yrs of Labour is coming I’m determined to give a hard time to. Have these people even followed UK politics for the last 55 years? 🤷‍♀️ as it was said in galaxy quest, don’t they even watch the show?

    UK politics is wild and febrile, because UK has some big issues not getting tackled very well - growth, productivity, post industrial economic transformation, social care and demographic time bomb, energy security, globalisation - arguably New Labour years didn’t help with these, the next Labour government rides a buckaroo-dandy of public opinion if not dealing with them, and can get thrown off pretty damn quick themselves if they don’t deliver. Winning power is no time for hubris, it’s time for sleeves up even harder work.

    Also of course, what is someone’s mentality if it’s all triumphalism and excitement at opinion polls right now? with workers rights, consumer rights, environmental protections and our welfare system in the hands of this government, and bonfire night approaching?

    Things havn’t been this bad since chief judge Cal took over mega city one. If there’s anyone claiming Universal Credit called Arthur A Aardvark, I suggest they pack a bag and flee.


    Seems to have left out @Leon 's ring on a necklace of doom.

    Rowson does draw Truss well, she does have these lovely big eyes which move slowly and then rest right on you, and she does have a very French-kissable mouth.

    Best of all is how he captures her vanity and madness.

    The other day RCS asked me, if this is a repeat of the 70s disrupters who ended up changing the world, who is the Keith Joseph? And I replied Truss herself.
    You want her to put your over her knee and spank you, in a switchy way, don't you?

    By all accounts, she would
    I’ve got my GF for spankings, she plays a great head teacher.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    Canada is sovereign and independent.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.
    Bermuda is a British colony.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    maybe The King could just not find a darn bloody pen!
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    According to the Governor, Assent was refused by Her Majesty, not His Majesty, so probably not the new duo.

    But it was refused by the Foreign Secretary under Her Majesty, which would be apart from Her Majesty's final couple of days would be a certain Right Hon. Mary Elizabeth Truss.

    And no not first time, it was refused on the same topic in another overseas territory a couple of years ago. Assent's not been refused in the UK in that time period, it has been refused overseas.
    Have you got a link? I'm interested in what the British Foreign Secretary has to do with internal affairs in Bermuda.

    Thanks for the info about refusal of royal assent.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/governor-of-bermuda-update-on-cannabis-licensing-bill

    Note the pronouns.

    Royal Assent was refused in 2020 in the British Virgin Islands (BVI) on the same topic.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,034

    I just do not see the Tories actually getting another new leader.

    They’ll have to - self preservation will kick in
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,982
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why are you being so negative?
  • Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 52% (+2)
    CON: 20% (=)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 5% (=)
    RFM: 4% (+1)

    Via
    @PeoplePolling
    , 6 Oct.
    Changes w/ 29 Sep.

    Just like after Black Wednesday.

    Far worse than that.

    In 1992, the polls had been drifting blue-to-red all summer, and that drift continued at roughly the same speed. Even at Christmas '92, the score was roughly C33 L48.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1997_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Black Wednesday is the classic example of "news doesn't shift the polls".

    The last few weeks have been much much worse than Black Wednesday.
    We await @MoonRabbit 's exclusive analysis of the reasons behind the Tories being 32 points clear, were the numbers reversed
    Your and @CorrectHorseBattery3 ’a repeated attacks on @MoonRabbit Re pretty unpleasant.

    She may be wrong, but she’s interesting

    Still pondering wether I give that post a like 🤣
    Ewe should.
    But it also says I get everything wrong, I’m none sure of saying “so true - give that a like” 😆

    It’s also not true my friends Anabob & Horse are giving me a hard time - the truth is anyone posting the Tories are done for so at least 10yrs of Labour is coming I’m determined to give a hard time to. Have these people even followed UK politics for the last 55 years? 🤷‍♀️ as it was said in galaxy quest, don’t they even watch the show?

    UK politics is wild and febrile, because UK has some big issues not getting tackled very well - growth, productivity, post industrial economic transformation, social care and demographic time bomb, energy security, globalisation - arguably New Labour years didn’t help with these, the next Labour government rides a buckaroo-dandy of public opinion if not dealing with them, and can get thrown off pretty damn quick themselves if they don’t deliver. Winning power is no time for hubris, it’s time for sleeves up even harder work.

    Also of course, what is someone’s mentality if it’s all triumphalism and excitement at opinion polls right now? with workers rights, consumer rights, environmental protections and our welfare system in the hands of this government, and bonfire night approaching?

    Things havn’t been this bad since chief judge Cal took over mega city one. If there’s anyone claiming Universal Credit called Arthur A Aardvark, I suggest they pack a bag and flee.


    Seems to have left out @Leon 's ring on a necklace of doom.

    Rowson does draw Truss well, she does have these lovely big eyes which move slowly and then rest right on you, and she does have a very French-kissable mouth.

    Best of all is how he captures her vanity and madness.

    The other day RCS asked me, if this is a repeat of the 70s disrupters who ended up changing the world, who is the Keith Joseph? And I replied Truss herself.
    You want her to put your over her knee and spank you, in a switchy way, don't you?

    By all accounts, she would
    I’ve got my GF for spankings, she plays a great head teacher.
    Decorum, please :)
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 51% (-4)
    CON: 24% (+1)
    LDM: 10% (+3)
    GRN: 5% (=)
    REF: 4% (+1)
    SNP: 3% (-2)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , On 6-7 October,
    Changes w/ 29-30 September.

    Tories are back!
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,655

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 51% (-4)
    CON: 24% (+1)
    LDM: 10% (+3)
    GRN: 5% (=)
    REF: 4% (+1)
    SNP: 3% (-2)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , On 6-7 October,
    Changes w/ 29-30 September.

    Tories are back!

    Ed Davey making a huge impact on Labour, like everyone was saying.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 52% (+2)
    CON: 20% (=)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 5% (=)
    RFM: 4% (+1)

    Via
    @PeoplePolling
    , 6 Oct.
    Changes w/ 29 Sep.

    Just like after Black Wednesday.

    Far worse than that.

    In 1992, the polls had been drifting blue-to-red all summer, and that drift continued at roughly the same speed. Even at Christmas '92, the score was roughly C33 L48.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1997_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Black Wednesday is the classic example of "news doesn't shift the polls".

    The last few weeks have been much much worse than Black Wednesday.
    We await @MoonRabbit 's exclusive analysis of the reasons behind the Tories being 32 points clear, were the numbers reversed
    Your and @CorrectHorseBattery3 ’a repeated attacks on @MoonRabbit Re pretty unpleasant.

    She may be wrong, but she’s interesting

    Still pondering wether I give that post a like 🤣
    Ewe should.
    But it also says I get everything wrong, I’m none sure of saying “so true - give that a like” 😆

    It’s also not true my friends Anabob & Horse are giving me a hard time - the truth is anyone posting the Tories are done for so at least 10yrs of Labour is coming I’m determined to give a hard time to. Have these people even followed UK politics for the last 55 years? 🤷‍♀️ as it was said in galaxy quest, don’t they even watch the show?

    UK politics is wild and febrile, because UK has some big issues not getting tackled very well - growth, productivity, post industrial economic transformation, social care and demographic time bomb, energy security, globalisation - arguably New Labour years didn’t help with these, the next Labour government rides a buckaroo-dandy of public opinion if not dealing with them, and can get thrown off pretty damn quick themselves if they don’t deliver. Winning power is no time for hubris, it’s time for sleeves up even harder work.

    Also of course, what is someone’s mentality if it’s all triumphalism and excitement at opinion polls right now? with workers rights, consumer rights, environmental protections and our welfare system in the hands of this government, and bonfire night approaching?

    Things havn’t been this bad since chief judge Cal took over mega city one. If there’s anyone claiming Universal Credit called Arthur A Aardvark, I suggest they pack a bag and flee.


    Seems to have left out @Leon 's ring on a necklace of doom.

    Rowson does draw Truss well, she does have these lovely big eyes which move slowly and then rest right on you, and she does have a very French-kissable mouth.

    Best of all is how he captures her vanity and madness.

    The other day RCS asked me, if this is a repeat of the 70s disrupters who ended up changing the world, who is the Keith Joseph? And I replied Truss herself.
    You want her to put your over her knee and spank you, in a switchy way, don't you?

    By all accounts, she would
    I’ve got my GF for spankings, she plays a great head teacher.
    I guessed right tho, didn't I?

    You are Sub

    But with a definite hint of switch
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    According to the Governor, Assent was refused by Her Majesty, not His Majesty, so probably not the new duo.

    But it was refused by the Foreign Secretary under Her Majesty, which would be apart from Her Majesty's final couple of days would be a certain Right Hon. Mary Elizabeth Truss.

    And no not first time, it was refused on the same topic in another overseas territory a couple of years ago. Assent's not been refused in the UK in that time period, it has been refused overseas.
    Have you got a link? I'm interested in what the British Foreign Secretary has to do with internal affairs in Bermuda.

    Thanks for the info about refusal of royal assent.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/governor-of-bermuda-update-on-cannabis-licensing-bill

    Note the pronouns.

    Royal Assent was refused in 2020 in the British Virgin Islands (BVI) on the same topic.
    Didnt the Late Queen prefer to be known as
    (Her Majesty/Your Royal Highness/One)
  • Hello_CloudsHello_Clouds Posts: 97
    edited October 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    According to the Governor, Assent was refused by Her Majesty, not His Majesty, so probably not the new duo.

    But it was refused by the Foreign Secretary under Her Majesty, which would be apart from Her Majesty's final couple of days would be a certain Right Hon. Mary Elizabeth Truss.

    And no not first time, it was refused on the same topic in another overseas territory a couple of years ago. Assent's not been refused in the UK in that time period, it has been refused overseas.
    Have you got a link? I'm interested in what the British Foreign Secretary has to do with internal affairs in Bermuda.

    Thanks for the info about refusal of royal assent.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/governor-of-bermuda-update-on-cannabis-licensing-bill

    Note the pronouns.

    Royal Assent was refused in 2020 in the British Virgin Islands (BVI) on the same topic.
    Thanks.

    And it's to do with international treaty obligations (not just Bermudian home affairs), therefore to do with the British Foreign Secretary.
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 51% (-4)
    CON: 24% (+1)
    LDM: 10% (+3)
    GRN: 5% (=)
    REF: 4% (+1)
    SNP: 3% (-2)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , On 6-7 October,
    Changes w/ 29-30 September.

    Tories are back!

    Broken, sleazy Labour on the slide!
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,753
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why are you being so negative?
    that's what you really call losing the core vote.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,100
    edited October 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why are you being so negative?
    It is Truss making these errors not me
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,486

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 51% (-4)
    CON: 24% (+1)
    LDM: 10% (+3)
    GRN: 5% (=)
    REF: 4% (+1)
    SNP: 3% (-2)

    Via
    @Omnisis
    , On 6-7 October,
    Changes w/ 29-30 September.

    Tories are back!

    Labour majority of 380.
    The comeback is on!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,100
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 52% (+2)
    CON: 20% (=)
    LDM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 7% (-1)
    SNP: 5% (=)
    RFM: 4% (+1)

    Via
    @PeoplePolling
    , 6 Oct.
    Changes w/ 29 Sep.

    Just like after Black Wednesday.

    Far worse than that.

    In 1992, the polls had been drifting blue-to-red all summer, and that drift continued at roughly the same speed. Even at Christmas '92, the score was roughly C33 L48.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1997_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Black Wednesday is the classic example of "news doesn't shift the polls".

    The last few weeks have been much much worse than Black Wednesday.
    We await @MoonRabbit 's exclusive analysis of the reasons behind the Tories being 32 points clear, were the numbers reversed
    Your and @CorrectHorseBattery3 ’a repeated attacks on @MoonRabbit Re pretty unpleasant.

    She may be wrong, but she’s interesting

    Still pondering wether I give that post a like 🤣
    Ewe should.
    But it also says I get everything wrong, I’m none sure of saying “so true - give that a like” 😆

    It’s also not true my friends Anabob & Horse are giving me a hard time - the truth is anyone posting the Tories are done for so at least 10yrs of Labour is coming I’m determined to give a hard time to. Have these people even followed UK politics for the last 55 years? 🤷‍♀️ as it was said in galaxy quest, don’t they even watch the show?

    UK politics is wild and febrile, because UK has some big issues not getting tackled very well - growth, productivity, post industrial economic transformation, social care and demographic time bomb, energy security, globalisation - arguably New Labour years didn’t help with these, the next Labour government rides a buckaroo-dandy of public opinion if not dealing with them, and can get thrown off pretty damn quick themselves if they don’t deliver. Winning power is no time for hubris, it’s time for sleeves up even harder work.

    Also of course, what is someone’s mentality if it’s all triumphalism and excitement at opinion polls right now? with workers rights, consumer rights, environmental protections and our welfare system in the hands of this government, and bonfire night approaching?

    Things havn’t been this bad since chief judge Cal took over mega city one. If there’s anyone claiming Universal Credit called Arthur A Aardvark, I suggest they pack a bag and flee.


    Seems to have left out @Leon 's ring on a necklace of doom.

    Rowson does draw Truss well, she does have these lovely big eyes which move slowly and then rest right on you, and she does have a very French-kissable mouth.

    Best of all is how he captures her vanity and madness.

    The other day RCS asked me, if this is a repeat of the 70s disrupters who ended up changing the world, who is the Keith Joseph? And I replied Truss herself.
    You want her to put your over her knee and spank you, in a switchy way, don't you?

    By all accounts, she would
    I’ve got my GF for spankings, she plays a great head teacher.
    Decorum, please :)
    Or Dulce et decorum, given the Armistice Day theme this evening.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
    You sure? It will be very interesting to see how normal, ordinary people react to that fiction.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,100
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
  • So question, if a party wins say 50% of the vote but not a massive landslide, is that seen as a big success because so many voted for them?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Legalise weed now.

    It causes mental illness in many users.
    So does alcohol and gambling. And professional rugby. Boxing. Heading a football. Overwork. Social media. Reading Leon’s posts. None of those are banned. Why pick on weed?
    They don't cause full on, balls-out psychosis to the extent modern types of cannabis do. Read

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-weed-became-new-oxycontin-marijuana-psychosis-addiction
    Regulate, regulate, regulate.
    There's no appetite for regulation and if it happens it will just send customers to the black market.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,100
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
    You sure? It will be very interesting to see how normal, ordinary people react to that fiction.
    Normal ordinary people know full well we have a constitutional monarch who has to agree to the policies of the government of the day. Otherwise if they did not you would be ranting they had overstepped the mark straight away
  • HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why are you being so negative?
    It is Truss making these errors not me
    I cannot see a positive for Truss
  • Truss may be useless but I am just struggling to see the person that takes over. Can somebody enlighten me?
  • So question, if a party wins say 50% of the vote but not a massive landslide, is that seen as a big success because so many voted for them?

    Of course it would be, and if a party won 50% of the vote it would be a landslide.

    The Tories got 47.2% in England in 2019, that's the closest any party has come in many decades to getting 50% in England, even Tony Blair didn't get that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,852

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    According to the Governor, Assent was refused by Her Majesty, not His Majesty, so probably not the new duo.

    But it was refused by the Foreign Secretary under Her Majesty, which would be apart from Her Majesty's final couple of days would be a certain Right Hon. Mary Elizabeth Truss.

    And no not first time, it was refused on the same topic in another overseas territory a couple of years ago. Assent's not been refused in the UK in that time period, it has been refused overseas.
    Have you got a link? I'm interested in what the British Foreign Secretary has to do with internal affairs in Bermuda.

    Thanks for the info about refusal of royal assent.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/governor-of-bermuda-update-on-cannabis-licensing-bill

    Note the pronouns.

    Royal Assent was refused in 2020 in the British Virgin Islands (BVI) on the same topic.
    Thanks.

    And it's to do with international treaty obligations (not just Bermudian home affairs), therefore to do with the British Foreign Secretary.
    Which is, in fact, the only thing the British government can intervene in in a British Overseas Territory, since 2005 when they were declared to have total autonomy in every field bar defence and international relations.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,808
    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Legalise weed now.

    It causes mental illness in many users.
    So does alcohol and gambling. And professional rugby. Boxing. Heading a football. Overwork. Social media. Reading Leon’s posts. None of those are banned. Why pick on weed?
    They don't cause full on, balls-out psychosis to the extent modern types of cannabis do. Read

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-weed-became-new-oxycontin-marijuana-psychosis-addiction
    Regulate, regulate, regulate.
    There's no appetite for regulation and if it happens it will just send customers to the black market.
    Is there a big black market in alcohol?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    I'm not a far left, and I have my gradfather's 1915-1919 medals above my screen. ANd I almost certainly have 3x as many histories of the Great War as you do.

    But why on earth do that for *serving* personnel? What is the logic? You havenj't explained it. Is it supposed to improve morale?

    Rather than, say, bothering to provide proper housing?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/03/mod-apologises-over-unacceptable-standard-of-army-homes


  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    It would be fair to Truss to hear the full background to this (are the train operators playing ball ? Do some servicemen treat it as a free trip to London ? )
  • So question, if a party wins say 50% of the vote but not a massive landslide, is that seen as a big success because so many voted for them?

    Of course it would be, and if a party won 50% of the vote it would be a landslide.

    The Tories got 47.2% in England in 2019, that's the closest any party has come in many decades to getting 50% in England, even Tony Blair didn't get that.
    The Tories didn't get a landslide in 2019.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471

    Truss may be useless but I am just struggling to see the person that takes over. Can somebody enlighten me?

    He;'s a North London lawyer who likes beer and korma?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,808

    Truss may be useless but I am just struggling to see the person that takes over. Can somebody enlighten me?

    Starmer - but you'll have to wait a couple of years.
  • Hello_CloudsHello_Clouds Posts: 97
    edited October 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    You might as well ask what the logic is in commemorating the fallen. People feel a need to do this. Service personnel are paid to risk their lives. Some lose their lives on duty.

    What I would like to know is what is Truss's logic. It's hard to believe it's an issue of denannifying the state and everyone having to pay their own way for what you call "optional" activities. It is rather as if she is sticking two fingers up at the armed forces and shouting "Screw you!" at them in order to save tuppence ha'porth of government expenditure. And this, shortly after spending huge amounts of state money on the late monarch's funeral.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,655

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    According to the Governor, Assent was refused by Her Majesty, not His Majesty, so probably not the new duo.

    But it was refused by the Foreign Secretary under Her Majesty, which would be apart from Her Majesty's final couple of days would be a certain Right Hon. Mary Elizabeth Truss.

    And no not first time, it was refused on the same topic in another overseas territory a couple of years ago. Assent's not been refused in the UK in that time period, it has been refused overseas.
    Have you got a link? I'm interested in what the British Foreign Secretary has to do with internal affairs in Bermuda.

    Thanks for the info about refusal of royal assent.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/governor-of-bermuda-update-on-cannabis-licensing-bill

    Note the pronouns.

    Royal Assent was refused in 2020 in the British Virgin Islands (BVI) on the same topic.
    Woke Charles using she/her?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    Canada is sovereign and independent.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.
    Bermuda is a British colony.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    No. Work on your English history tovarich, or it's winter in Donetsk for you.

    And your American history.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
    You sure? It will be very interesting to see how normal, ordinary people react to that fiction.
    Normal ordinary people know full well we have a constitutional monarch who has to agree to the policies of the government of the day. Otherwise if they did not you would be ranting they had overstepped the mark straight away
    "Agreeing" implies there is even any choice.

    But consider this, on the other hand (and much else).

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/05/scottish-ministers-refuse-to-confirm-if-king-asked-for-rent-freeze-bill-changes

    And make up your mind.
  • EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    According to the Governor, Assent was refused by Her Majesty, not His Majesty, so probably not the new duo.

    But it was refused by the Foreign Secretary under Her Majesty, which would be apart from Her Majesty's final couple of days would be a certain Right Hon. Mary Elizabeth Truss.

    And no not first time, it was refused on the same topic in another overseas territory a couple of years ago. Assent's not been refused in the UK in that time period, it has been refused overseas.
    Have you got a link? I'm interested in what the British Foreign Secretary has to do with internal affairs in Bermuda.

    Thanks for the info about refusal of royal assent.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/governor-of-bermuda-update-on-cannabis-licensing-bill

    Note the pronouns.

    Royal Assent was refused in 2020 in the British Virgin Islands (BVI) on the same topic.
    Woke Charles using she/her?
    Charlize Theking.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Only 24% think Liz Truss is “Movin’ on up” while 76% think she’s definitely “Movin’ on out”. = Omnisis
  • So question, if a party wins say 50% of the vote but not a massive landslide, is that seen as a big success because so many voted for them?

    Of course it would be, and if a party won 50% of the vote it would be a landslide.

    The Tories got 47.2% in England in 2019, that's the closest any party has come in many decades to getting 50% in England, even Tony Blair didn't get that.
    The Tories didn't get a landslide in 2019.
    They got an 80 seat majority and didn't get 50%, that's the point.

    If any party did get 50%, they'd get more than an eighty seat majority and it would be a landslide.

    In Scotland the SNP have achieved 50% of the vote, and they virtually swept the board as a result.

    In England no party has achieved 50% in many, many decades. Tony Blair never even came close to that. The closest that's been achieved is 47.2% in 1979 and 2019.

    If anyone got 50%, they would get a landslide.
  • So question, if a party wins say 50% of the vote but not a massive landslide, is that seen as a big success because so many voted for them?

    Of course it would be, and if a party won 50% of the vote it would be a landslide.

    The Tories got 47.2% in England in 2019, that's the closest any party has come in many decades to getting 50% in England, even Tony Blair didn't get that.
    The Tories didn't get a landslide in 2019.
    They got an 80 seat majority and didn't get 50%, that's the point.

    If any party did get 50%, they'd get more than an eighty seat majority and it would be a landslide.

    In Scotland the SNP have achieved 50% of the vote, and they virtually swept the board as a result.

    In England no party has achieved 50% in many, many decades. Tony Blair never even came close to that. The closest that's been achieved is 47.2% in 1979 and 2019.

    If anyone got 50%, they would get a landslide.
    I see, thank you Mr Bart.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,486
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    I'm not a far left, and I have my gradfather's 1915-1919 medals above my screen. ANd I almost certainly have 3x as many histories of the Great War as you do.

    But why on earth do that for *serving* personnel? What is the logic? You havenj't explained it. Is it supposed to improve morale?

    Rather than, say, bothering to provide proper housing?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/03/mod-apologises-over-unacceptable-standard-of-army-homes


    Or paying them so little that they rely on UC?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Starmer is going to win but he is completely fucked, however

    I had one of my NOTORIOUS DRINKS WITH A LEFTY FRIEND last night. A Cambridge educated journalist

    He was chortling about the travails of the Tories, and fair enough, but then I asked him: What will Starmer DO? How will he get down the debt, tackle the deficit, bring back confidence, tackle foreign policy, and so on?

    Answer came there none. My friend stopped chortling. Because there is no answer. The Labour government from 2024 on is going to be painfully different from Blair's in 1997, which basically just handed out the money made by the Tories

    Indeed I think the Labour government of Keir Starmer - if they get the framing wrong - could be one of the most divided and unpopular in history. It will be Wilson-Callaghan on steroids and ayahuasca. It will have to impose horrible spending cuts and it will have to deal ruthlessly with mass immigration, against all of its instincts. Nasty
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    I'm not a far left, and I have my gradfather's 1915-1919 medals above my screen. ANd I almost certainly have 3x as many histories of the Great War as you do.

    But why on earth do that for *serving* personnel? What is the logic? You havenj't explained it. Is it supposed to improve morale?

    Rather than, say, bothering to provide proper housing?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/03/mod-apologises-over-unacceptable-standard-of-army-homes


    Or paying them so little that they rely on UC?
    That too, if that is the case - I hadn't realised pay had got so bad.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,486

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    It would be fair to Truss to hear the full background to this (are the train operators playing ball ? Do some servicemen treat it as a free trip to London ? )
    In fairness "a free trip to London" is precisely what it is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    edited October 2022
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    It would be fair to Truss to hear the full background to this (are the train operators playing ball ? Do some servicemen treat it as a free trip to London ? )
    In fairness "a free trip to London" is precisely what it is.
    London is the only place where a serving person can go to a Remembrance service relevant to their regiment, for instance? Surely not. Must be missing something somewhere.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,100
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
    You sure? It will be very interesting to see how normal, ordinary people react to that fiction.
    Normal ordinary people know full well we have a constitutional monarch who has to agree to the policies of the government of the day. Otherwise if they did not you would be ranting they had overstepped the mark straight away
    "Agreeing" implies there is even any choice.

    But consider this, on the other hand (and much else).

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/05/scottish-ministers-refuse-to-confirm-if-king-asked-for-rent-freeze-bill-changes

    And make up your mind.
    The monarch is also perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property, especially as most rents on his estates are well below market rate anyway.

    The SNP and Green legislation overall is terrible, effectively you cannot even evict tenants who don't pay their rent
  • Leon said:

    Starmer is going to win but he is completely fucked, however

    I had one of my NOTORIOUS DRINKS WITH A LEFTY FRIEND last night. A Cambridge educated journalist

    He was chortling about the travails of the Tories, and fair enough, but then I asked him: What will Starmer DO? How will he get down the debt, tackle the deficit, bring back confidence, tackle foreign policy, and so on?

    Answer came there none. My friend stopped chortling. Because there is no answer. The Labour government from 2024 on is going to be painfully different from Blair's in 1997, which basically just handed out the money made by the Tories

    Indeed I think the Labour government of Keir Starmer - if they get the framing wrong - could be one of the most divided and unpopular in history. It will be Wilson-Callaghan on steroids and ayahuasca. It will have to impose horrible spending cuts and it will have to deal ruthlessly with mass immigration, against all of its instincts. Nasty

    Oh I see we're back to making up friends again, ok
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    I'm not a far left, and I have my gradfather's 1915-1919 medals above my screen. ANd I almost certainly have 3x as many histories of the Great War as you do.

    But why on earth do that for *serving* personnel? What is the logic? You havenj't explained it. Is it supposed to improve morale?

    Rather than, say, bothering to provide proper housing?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/03/mod-apologises-over-unacceptable-standard-of-army-homes


    And why do they have to travel to do their Remembrancing? If you are never more than six feet from a rat you are sure as fuck never more than 5 minutes from an authorised mawkfest on Poppymas Day.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,486
    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    I'm not a far left, and I have my gradfather's 1915-1919 medals above my screen. ANd I almost certainly have 3x as many histories of the Great War as you do.

    But why on earth do that for *serving* personnel? What is the logic? You havenj't explained it. Is it supposed to improve morale?

    Rather than, say, bothering to provide proper housing?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/03/mod-apologises-over-unacceptable-standard-of-army-homes


    Or paying them so little that they rely on UC?
    That too, if that is the case - I hadn't realised pay had got so bad.
    See here.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/19978222/nearly-3000-troops-live-on-benefits-shock-stats-show/amp/
  • IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    Canada is sovereign and independent.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.
    Bermuda is a British colony.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    No. Work on your English history tovarich, or it's winter in Donetsk for you.

    And your American history.
    Work on your manners. @Bart was already kind enough to enlighten me with reference to the British Virgin Islands case.

    And it's "tovarishch".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    I'm not a far left, and I have my gradfather's 1915-1919 medals above my screen. ANd I almost certainly have 3x as many histories of the Great War as you do.

    But why on earth do that for *serving* personnel? What is the logic? You havenj't explained it. Is it supposed to improve morale?

    Rather than, say, bothering to provide proper housing?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/03/mod-apologises-over-unacceptable-standard-of-army-homes


    Or paying them so little that they rely on UC?
    That too, if that is the case - I hadn't realised pay had got so bad.
    See here.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/19978222/nearly-3000-troops-live-on-benefits-shock-stats-show/amp/
    Thank you. It's insane as HMG is the employer anyway.
  • There seems to be this idea developing in the Tory Party that they'll lose next time and then come back in, in five years time.

    The same arrogance some in Labour had after 2010, which led eventually to Corbyn.

    If you lose, you're out for a decade, IHMO. I do not think the Tories get how much they are hated right now.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
    You sure? It will be very interesting to see how normal, ordinary people react to that fiction.
    Normal ordinary people know full well we have a constitutional monarch who has to agree to the policies of the government of the day. Otherwise if they did not you would be ranting they had overstepped the mark straight away
    "Agreeing" implies there is even any choice.

    But consider this, on the other hand (and much else).

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/05/scottish-ministers-refuse-to-confirm-if-king-asked-for-rent-freeze-bill-changes

    And make up your mind.
    The monarch is also perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property, especially as most rents on his estates are well below market rate anyway.

    The SNP and Green legislation overall is terrible, effectively you cannot even evict tenants who don't pay their rent
    Since when are landlords personally consulted on legislation affecting their private property? 🤨
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,486
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    Starmer is going to win but he is completely fucked, however

    I had one of my NOTORIOUS DRINKS WITH A LEFTY FRIEND last night. A Cambridge educated journalist

    He was chortling about the travails of the Tories, and fair enough, but then I asked him: What will Starmer DO? How will he get down the debt, tackle the deficit, bring back confidence, tackle foreign policy, and so on?

    Answer came there none. My friend stopped chortling. Because there is no answer. The Labour government from 2024 on is going to be painfully different from Blair's in 1997, which basically just handed out the money made by the Tories

    Indeed I think the Labour government of Keir Starmer - if they get the framing wrong - could be one of the most divided and unpopular in history. It will be Wilson-Callaghan on steroids and ayahuasca. It will have to impose horrible spending cuts and it will have to deal ruthlessly with mass immigration, against all of its instincts. Nasty

    The Wilson-Callaghan governments weren't particularly unpopular. Or divided.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
    You sure? It will be very interesting to see how normal, ordinary people react to that fiction.
    Normal ordinary people know full well we have a constitutional monarch who has to agree to the policies of the government of the day. Otherwise if they did not you would be ranting they had overstepped the mark straight away
    "Agreeing" implies there is even any choice.

    But consider this, on the other hand (and much else).

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/05/scottish-ministers-refuse-to-confirm-if-king-asked-for-rent-freeze-bill-changes

    And make up your mind.
    The monarch is also perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property, especially as most rents on his estates are well below market rate anyway.

    The SNP and Green legislation overall is terrible, effectively you cannot even evict tenants who don't pay their rent
    'The monarch is also perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property.'

    But you and I don't get consulted in secret. You and I have our comments published.

    This needs to change asap.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Legalise weed now.

    It causes mental illness in many users.
    So does alcohol and gambling. And professional rugby. Boxing. Heading a football. Overwork. Social media. Reading Leon’s posts. None of those are banned. Why pick on weed?
    They don't cause full on, balls-out psychosis to the extent modern types of cannabis do. Read

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-weed-became-new-oxycontin-marijuana-psychosis-addiction
    Regulate, regulate, regulate.
    There's no appetite for regulation and if it happens it will just send customers to the black market.
    Is there a big black market in alcohol?
    There is for cannabis certainly in Canada, and I imagine in the US, so the analogy doesn't really hold.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Truss may be useless but I am just struggling to see the person that takes over. Can somebody enlighten me?

    Boris is a master of the unprecedented; I'd not rule a return out at all. People have short memories re. his failings, and he 'can't be as bad as Truss' etc.

    The mechanics are unclear, and I wouldn't say it's likely, but equally I too struggle to see any other obvious candidate.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    If it looks like a windfall tax, swims like a windfall tax and quacks like a windfall tax then it probably is a windfall tax https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1578478766224945152
  • Scott_xP said:

    If it looks like a windfall tax, swims like a windfall tax and quacks like a windfall tax then it probably is a windfall tax https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1578478766224945152

    Out. Of. Ideas.

    Is it Keir Starmer's policies they're using now? Is he now the PM?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,904
    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Legalise weed now.

    It causes mental illness in many users.
    So does alcohol and gambling. And professional rugby. Boxing. Heading a football. Overwork. Social media. Reading Leon’s posts. None of those are banned. Why pick on weed?
    You're right. Let's ban Leon's posts.
  • Ghedebrav said:

    Truss may be useless but I am just struggling to see the person that takes over. Can somebody enlighten me?

    Boris is a master of the unprecedented; I'd not rule a return out at all. People have short memories re. his failings, and he 'can't be as bad as Truss' etc.

    The mechanics are unclear, and I wouldn't say it's likely, but equally I too struggle to see any other obvious candidate.
    yes he could even argue his misdemeanors have been wiped clean like a rugby player in the sin bin coming back on. I think he is the tories only hope
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,100
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
    You sure? It will be very interesting to see how normal, ordinary people react to that fiction.
    Normal ordinary people know full well we have a constitutional monarch who has to agree to the policies of the government of the day. Otherwise if they did not you would be ranting they had overstepped the mark straight away
    "Agreeing" implies there is even any choice.

    But consider this, on the other hand (and much else).

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/05/scottish-ministers-refuse-to-confirm-if-king-asked-for-rent-freeze-bill-changes

    And make up your mind.
    The monarch is also perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property, especially as most rents on his estates are well below market rate anyway.

    The SNP and Green legislation overall is terrible, effectively you cannot even evict tenants who don't pay their rent
    'The monarch is also perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property.'

    But you and I don't get consulted in secret. You and I have our comments published.

    This needs to change asap.

    You and I are not the Monarch. The Monarch is perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property, Parliament can still decide whether to accept or not any suggested amendments.

    In any case as I said this SNP-Green legislation is absolutely appalling, effectively giving tenants in Scotland the green light to never pay their rent as landlords cannot evict them
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    Canada is one of the few places where legally married same sex couples can legally defend their cannabis farm with guns.
    Along with Colorado, Alaska, Oregon, Washington DC, California, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, Michigan, Vermont, Guam, Virginia, New Mexico and Rhode Island.

    The UK is falling quite backwards on this actually.
    Reasonable people may disagree on such a thing. I don't think concerns should be brushed aside merely because other places have taken an action. But equally, those most resistent to the idea act like those other places must have done it with no thought or analysis whatsoever, or that it is irrelevant.
    Nor in denial of the mounting real world evidence now being provided by similar societies.
    Evidence of what?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,960

    So question, if a party wins say 50% of the vote but not a massive landslide, is that seen as a big success because so many voted for them?

    Of course it would be, and if a party won 50% of the vote it would be a landslide.

    The Tories got 47.2% in England in 2019, that's the closest any party has come in many decades to getting 50% in England, even Tony Blair didn't get that.
    The Tories didn't get a landslide in 2019.
    They got an 80 seat majority and didn't get 50%, that's the point.

    If any party did get 50%, they'd get more than an eighty seat majority and it would be a landslide.

    In Scotland the SNP have achieved 50% of the vote, and they virtually swept the board as a result.

    In England no party has achieved 50% in many, many decades. Tony Blair never even came close to that. The closest that's been achieved is 47.2% in 1979 and 2019.

    If anyone got 50%, they would get a landslide.
    Labour got 48.8% of the vote in 1951 and lost the election. Thanks to FPTP, it's possible for a party to receive 50% of the vote and to be a long way short of a landslide.

    You could even have a party with a 35% poll lead and have them almost wiped out.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,808
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer is going to win but he is completely fucked, however

    I had one of my NOTORIOUS DRINKS WITH A LEFTY FRIEND last night. A Cambridge educated journalist

    He was chortling about the travails of the Tories, and fair enough, but then I asked him: What will Starmer DO? How will he get down the debt, tackle the deficit, bring back confidence, tackle foreign policy, and so on?

    Answer came there none. My friend stopped chortling. Because there is no answer. The Labour government from 2024 on is going to be painfully different from Blair's in 1997, which basically just handed out the money made by the Tories

    Indeed I think the Labour government of Keir Starmer - if they get the framing wrong - could be one of the most divided and unpopular in history. It will be Wilson-Callaghan on steroids and ayahuasca. It will have to impose horrible spending cuts and it will have to deal ruthlessly with mass immigration, against all of its instincts. Nasty

    The Wilson-Callaghan governments weren't particularly unpopular. Or divided.
    The issue they had 1974 - 1979 was a wafer thin majority that eventually evaporated.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer is going to win but he is completely fucked, however

    I had one of my NOTORIOUS DRINKS WITH A LEFTY FRIEND last night. A Cambridge educated journalist

    He was chortling about the travails of the Tories, and fair enough, but then I asked him: What will Starmer DO? How will he get down the debt, tackle the deficit, bring back confidence, tackle foreign policy, and so on?

    Answer came there none. My friend stopped chortling. Because there is no answer. The Labour government from 2024 on is going to be painfully different from Blair's in 1997, which basically just handed out the money made by the Tories

    Indeed I think the Labour government of Keir Starmer - if they get the framing wrong - could be one of the most divided and unpopular in history. It will be Wilson-Callaghan on steroids and ayahuasca. It will have to impose horrible spending cuts and it will have to deal ruthlessly with mass immigration, against all of its instincts. Nasty

    The Wilson-Callaghan governments weren't particularly unpopular. Or divided.
    Which is why I said it will be Wilson-Callaghan on STEROIDS AND AYAHUASCA
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Legalise weed now.

    It causes mental illness in many users.
    So does alcohol and gambling. And professional rugby. Boxing. Heading a football. Overwork. Social media. Reading Leon’s posts. None of those are banned. Why pick on weed?
    They don't cause full on, balls-out psychosis to the extent modern types of cannabis do. Read

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-weed-became-new-oxycontin-marijuana-psychosis-addiction
    Regulate, regulate, regulate.
    There's no appetite for regulation and if it happens it will just send customers to the black market.
    Is there a big black market in alcohol?
    There is for cannabis certainly in Canada, and I imagine in the US, so the analogy doesn't really hold.
    Yes. But it grows wild there. Alcohol doesn't.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,471
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
    You sure? It will be very interesting to see how normal, ordinary people react to that fiction.
    Normal ordinary people know full well we have a constitutional monarch who has to agree to the policies of the government of the day. Otherwise if they did not you would be ranting they had overstepped the mark straight away
    "Agreeing" implies there is even any choice.

    But consider this, on the other hand (and much else).

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/05/scottish-ministers-refuse-to-confirm-if-king-asked-for-rent-freeze-bill-changes

    And make up your mind.
    The monarch is also perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property, especially as most rents on his estates are well below market rate anyway.

    The SNP and Green legislation overall is terrible, effectively you cannot even evict tenants who don't pay their rent
    'The monarch is also perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property.'

    But you and I don't get consulted in secret. You and I have our comments published.

    This needs to change asap.

    You and I are not the Monarch. The Monarch is perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property, Parliament can still decide whether to accept or not any suggested amendments.

    In any case as I said this SNP-Green legislation is absolutely appalling, effectively giving tenants in Scotland the green light to never pay their rent as landlords cannot evict them
    Aah - so Chas says "Change that or I dont' sign."

    That's interference.

    Or - which is just as bad - we don't know that he doesn't. Or that the laws are watered down in advance.

    Justice must not only be done - it has to be seen to be done. And that includes bringing the monarch under the law of the land.

    In this case it is the SNP government that is trying to conform to the procedures - and you'd be howling treason if it didn't.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    Not sure you can blame the King for this. I think this is all Truss, given the status of Bermuda as a British Overseas Territory which means the UK Government is the National government and the Bermudan Parliament is in effect only a local government. I suspect that were he to grant assent in defiance of the Foreign Secretary or PM it would result in a very rapid constitutional crisis and charges of him overstepping his authority.

    Truss should never have put him in this position. At the very least I can see it giving a boost to the Bermudan independence movement.
    The Monarch acts on the advice of the British government in relation to the Overseas Territories. This is all Truss
    But you keep telling us it's the monarch who is top dog. He gets the credit (or his predecessor), he gets the blame.
    No he doesn't, he is a constitutional monarch. It is the government of the day who take the blame
    You sure? It will be very interesting to see how normal, ordinary people react to that fiction.
    Normal ordinary people know full well we have a constitutional monarch who has to agree to the policies of the government of the day. Otherwise if they did not you would be ranting they had overstepped the mark straight away
    "Agreeing" implies there is even any choice.

    But consider this, on the other hand (and much else).

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/05/scottish-ministers-refuse-to-confirm-if-king-asked-for-rent-freeze-bill-changes

    And make up your mind.
    The monarch is also perfectly entitled to be consulted on legislation affecting their private property, especially as most rents on his estates are well below market rate anyway.

    The SNP and Green legislation overall is terrible, effectively you cannot even evict tenants who don't pay their rent
    Since when are landlords personally consulted on legislation affecting their private property? 🤨
    Since before Magna Carta, when they are the monarch. It's called Royal consent (not assent).
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited October 2022
    Ghedebrav said:

    Truss may be useless but I am just struggling to see the person that takes over. Can somebody enlighten me?

    Boris is a master of the unprecedented; I'd not rule a return out at all. People have short memories re. his failings, and he 'can't be as bad as Truss' etc.

    The mechanics are unclear, and I wouldn't say it's likely, but equally I too struggle to see any other obvious candidate.
    He is also the solution to the torys mandate problem.

    I rode his price down from 16/1 to 8/1, then cashed out. I might go back in…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    "'A risk to the whole planet': Volodymyr Zelensky warns Russian officials are 'already preparing their citizens for nuclear war' - after Ukraine's president backtracked on comments suggesting Nato 'launch pre-emptive strikes' on Putin's forces"


    https://twitter.com/Marty83461594/status/1578486304849145856?s=20&t=L-QfL3Ff66tWwDB0Ddiwqg

    It is coming

    BRACE
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    Canada is sovereign and independent.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.
    Bermuda is a British colony.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    No. Work on your English history tovarich, or it's winter in Donetsk for you.

    And your American history.
    Work on your manners. @Bart was already kind enough to enlighten me with reference to the British Virgin Islands case.

    And it's "tovarishch".
    Well fallen.

    BVI have nothing to do with it, it is one of the express beefs in the declaration of independence that we kept doing it to the colonies all the way up to 1776.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,808
    ping said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Truss may be useless but I am just struggling to see the person that takes over. Can somebody enlighten me?

    Boris is a master of the unprecedented; I'd not rule a return out at all. People have short memories re. his failings, and he 'can't be as bad as Truss' etc.

    The mechanics are unclear, and I wouldn't say it's likely, but equally I too struggle to see any other obvious candidate.
    He is also the solution to the torys mandate problem.
    Liz should remove the whip from Johnson to knock him out of contention, use the Privileges Committee report as an excuse.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    Canada is one of the few places where legally married same sex couples can legally defend their cannabis farm with guns.
    Along with Colorado, Alaska, Oregon, Washington DC, California, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, Michigan, Vermont, Guam, Virginia, New Mexico and Rhode Island.

    The UK is falling quite backwards on this actually.
    Reasonable people may disagree on such a thing. I don't think concerns should be brushed aside merely because other places have taken an action. But equally, those most resistent to the idea act like those other places must have done it with no thought or analysis whatsoever, or that it is irrelevant.
    Nor in denial of the mounting real world evidence now being provided by similar societies.
    Evidence of what?
    The evidence of what happens when you legalise.
    I didn't think that was obtuse.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,925

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Liz Truss has decided to block Bermuda from legalising cannabis by telling the representative of the King to block a bill.

    Doesn't seem a very democratic move to me.

    That's extremely odd.

    Canada's legalisation law presumably got Royal Assent?
    Canada is independent.
    Bermuda is an Overseas Territory.
    Canadian laws still require Royal Assent though.

    Presumably then HMG doesn't get a say in the Royal Assent for Canadian laws, but does for Bermuda's?
    The Governor General gives that assent though on behalf of the King
    The Governor General does in Bermuda too.

    Who advises the Governor General in both? How come Canada's GG felt it appropriate to approve Royal Assent, but Bermuda's didn't?

    Incidentally from the article it seems like it might not be Liz Truss's Government who blocked it? The Governor of Bermuda says "I have now received an instruction, issued to me on Her Majesty’s behalf, not to Assent to the Bill as drafted." If the decision was taken in the past few days the instruction would have come on His Majesty's behalf.

    Then again, it says the Foreign Secretary made the decision and Truss was the Foreign Secretary before then, so either way she seems to be responsible.
    Canada's Governor General is appointed by the King on the advice of the Canadian government as Canada is an independent state even if a Commonwealth realm.

    Bermuda's Governor is directly appointed by the King on the advice of the UK government as it is a UK overseas territory.
    That is correct, although I am not sure why you refer to appointment and direct appointment.
    The GG of Canada is appointed by the king of Canada, advised by the Canadian government.
    Canada is sovereign and independent.
    The GG of Bermuda is appointed by the king of the UKGBNI, advised by the UKGBNI government.
    Bermuda is a British colony.

    Is this the first time that royal assent has been refused by the British monarch since 1708?

    Doing well, this new duo, aren't they?

    No. Work on your English history tovarich, or it's winter in Donetsk for you.

    And your American history.
    Work on your manners. @Bart was already kind enough to enlighten me with reference to the British Virgin Islands case.

    And it's "tovarishch".
    Not in English.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,960
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss government has scrapped offer of free train travel for the military to Remembrance Sunday Services as she continues to put her libertarian principles first.


    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1578456156778872832?s=20&t=6fj3miEEtMi78xuOzT9k4w

    while on the face of it that seems mean , why doesnt the train companies offer it ? Presumably at the moment some complicated system of reimbursement to train operators is in place if Truss is stopping it?
    Truss now trying to lose the military vote tonight it seems as she continues her quest to get the lowest voteshare for a Tory leader ever

    Why should serving personnel get free travel for optional spare time activities?

    If it's duty (ie a formal parade) then MoD would be paying up front. But if not, then HMG should not. What is the logic?
    I could just about understand a far left Scottish nationalist like you wanting not to support the military in going to Remembrance Services. However for a Tory leader it is unforgiveable
    I'm not a far left, and I have my gradfather's 1915-1919 medals above my screen. ANd I almost certainly have 3x as many histories of the Great War as you do.

    But why on earth do that for *serving* personnel? What is the logic? You havenj't explained it. Is it supposed to improve morale?

    Rather than, say, bothering to provide proper housing?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/03/mod-apologises-over-unacceptable-standard-of-army-homes


    And why do they have to travel to do their Remembrancing? If you are never more than six feet from a rat you are sure as fuck never more than 5 minutes from an authorised mawkfest on Poppymas Day.
    I wonder what the greatest distance from a war memorial is in the UK? I'd guess there are large proportions of the country within a few miles of one. I'm just over one quarter of a mile from the nearest that I know of. Maybe they are all mapped somewhere...
This discussion has been closed.