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Red Tape or Red Mist? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 9 in General
imageRed Tape or Red Mist? – politicalbetting.com

Poor Chris Philp. Not only is he being blamed by his own colleagues for suggesting the now binned cut to the 45% tax rate. But his statement at a Conference meeting that companies with fewer than 500 employees will be exempt from all business regulations has been seized upon, with some claiming that it means a complete free-for-all: companies able to discriminate, sell dangerous goods, send children up chimneys and so forth.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,361
    First
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,154
    edited October 4
    Some compulsory reporting on annual reports should be culled - All the environmental stuff put in now by a lot of companies and organisations is just meaningless given it is not audited (unlike the finances) so all companies just present selected stuff in the best possible virtue signalling light and pretend everything is fine .Nobody reads it either .So pointless and potentially damaging as well . Same for gender equality rubbish - Do Shell rerally need to strive for more female oil rig workers to get to say 50% - nah its always going to be a job more attrative to males so lets not pretend otherwise - same with NHS midwives the other way around.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    How do they think half this stuff will get thru HoL if it even makes it out of Commons?

    HoL can delay crap that was not in a manifesto.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604
    Red Wedding.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    Red tape or dead tape ?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,300
    Red landslide, by the looks of things.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,977
    "Cheese is being covered in red wax. That is a disgrace."

    image
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    "Poor Chris Philp."

    You're a generous soul, @Cyclefree .
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Column: from recreational use, to high-functioning addiction to desperate junkies - under Truss the Tory ideology habit is now completely out of control.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/04/liz-truss-tories-ideology-fiscal-voters

    Gone full Zammo since I filed this.
    https://twitter.com/rafaelbehr/status/1577316732670296064
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,556

    "Cheese is being covered in red wax. That is a disgrace."

    image

    We have exported two thirds of our voters*. That. Is. A. Disgrace.

    *to other parties
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Eeah, these government approval numbers are rough...

    Approve 11% (-6)
    Disapprove 72% (+8)

    This is worse than it ever got under Johnson.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/government-approval
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,092
    edited October 4

    Some compulsory reporting on annual reports should be culled - All the environmental stuff put in now by a lot of companies and organisations is just meaningless given it is not audited (unlike the finances) so all companies just present selected stuff in the best possible virtue signalling light and pretend everything is fine .Nobody reads it either .So pointless and potentially damaging as well . Same for gender equality rubbish - Do Shell rerally need to strive for more female oil rig workers to get to say 50% - nah its always going to be a job more attrative to males so lets not pretend otherwise - same with NHS midwives the other way around.

    Is it compulsorym in the legal sense? I suspect a lot of what you imply actually isn't.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    Anyhow, at least someone's enjoying conference.

    This Tory conference is so amazingly messy I still can't believe it's real. Ministers going completely rogue, MPs barely here but still throwing shade left, right & centre, Tory members downing champagne while half laughing/half crying "we're all f***ed". It's WILD
    https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1577303194224529408
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855

    How do they think half this stuff will get thru HoL if it even makes it out of Commons?

    HoL can delay crap that was not in a manifesto.

    On that subject of course, thinking about one or two earlier suggestions work might be stopped, whether you like HS2 or not it has been authorised by an act of parliament and it would now require further primary legislation for it to be stopped.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,977
    Selebian said:

    "Cheese is being covered in red wax. That is a disgrace."

    image

    We have exported two thirds of our voters*. That. Is. A. Disgrace.

    *to other parties
    "We are changing leaders more often... than Italy. We are exporting financial crises... to Greece."
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,520
    edited October 4
    Carnyx said:

    Some compulsory reporting on annual reports should be culled - All the environmental stuff put in now by a lot of companies and organisations is just meaningless given it is not audited (unlike the finances) so all companies just present selected stuff in the best possible virtue signalling light and pretend everything is fine .Nobody reads it either .So pointless and potentially damaging as well . Same for gender equality rubbish - Do Shell rerally need to strive for more female oil rig workers to get to say 50% - nah its always going to be a job more attrative to males so lets not pretend otherwise - same with NHS midwives the other way around.

    Is it compulsorym in the legal sense? I suspect a lot of what you imply actually isn't.
    It pretty much is. These accounts are all audited and its part of an auditors job (and I'm one of them) to cover these things. We would flag it up, and not give a clean report if it didn't.

    We're crap at the actual numbers in the accounts or if it's going to go bust, but on this we're shit hot....

    Edit: just to clear it up, what we do

    'In connection with our audit of the financial statements, our responsibility is to read the other information and, in doing so, consider whether the other information is materially inconsistent with the financial statements or our knowledge obtained in the audit or otherwise appears to be materially misstated.'

    So, there's a degree of work, but not all covering....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855
    Lovely warm feeling inside today, have finished chopping up nine pallets and a superannuated planter for firewood over the winter. My woodstore is so full I literally couldn't fit any more in it.

    That could be extremely useful...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855

    Selebian said:

    "Cheese is being covered in red wax. That is a disgrace."

    image

    We have exported two thirds of our voters*. That. Is. A. Disgrace.

    *to other parties
    "We are changing leaders more often... than Italy. We are exporting financial crises... to Greece."
    She's pasta sell by date and turned into a drachma queen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855

    Red October.

    Must be Hunt then.

    Appropriate given she knows Jack about the economy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,092
    edited October 4

    Carnyx said:

    Some compulsory reporting on annual reports should be culled - All the environmental stuff put in now by a lot of companies and organisations is just meaningless given it is not audited (unlike the finances) so all companies just present selected stuff in the best possible virtue signalling light and pretend everything is fine .Nobody reads it either .So pointless and potentially damaging as well . Same for gender equality rubbish - Do Shell rerally need to strive for more female oil rig workers to get to say 50% - nah its always going to be a job more attrative to males so lets not pretend otherwise - same with NHS midwives the other way around.

    Is it compulsorym in the legal sense? I suspect a lot of what you imply actually isn't.
    It pretty much is. These accounts are all audited and its part of an auditors job (and I'm one of them) to cover these things. We would flag it up, and not give a clean report if it didn't.

    We're crap at the actual numbers in the accounts or if it's going to go bust, but on this we're shit hot....
    Ta. I can get that you do the sums, but do the figures on "environmental stuff" and "gender equality rubbish" have to be there by law (as opposed to being correct by law if they are put in, which is your job)?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Nigelb said:

    Anyhow, at least someone's enjoying conference.

    This Tory conference is so amazingly messy I still can't believe it's real. Ministers going completely rogue, MPs barely here but still throwing shade left, right & centre, Tory members downing champagne while half laughing/half crying "we're all f***ed". It's WILD
    https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1577303194224529408

    As I said yesterday, Tory party is having the massive nervous breakdown they should have in opposition whilst still nominally running the country.

    We need a GE now.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604
    ydoethur said:

    How do they think half this stuff will get thru HoL if it even makes it out of Commons?

    HoL can delay crap that was not in a manifesto.

    On that subject of course, thinking about one or two earlier suggestions work might be stopped, whether you like HS2 or not it has been authorised by an act of parliament and it would now require further primary legislation for it to be stopped.
    I hope that ministers take personal responsibility for the sunk costs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    DOJ case for obstruction against Trump (18 USC 1519) just got a lot stronger.

    "Trump asked one of his lawyers to tell [Archives] in early 2022 that Trump had returned all materials, but the lawyer declined because he was not sure the statement was true."

    https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1577067546137661440

    When you don't pay your lawyers...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604

    Nigelb said:

    Anyhow, at least someone's enjoying conference.

    This Tory conference is so amazingly messy I still can't believe it's real. Ministers going completely rogue, MPs barely here but still throwing shade left, right & centre, Tory members downing champagne while half laughing/half crying "we're all f***ed". It's WILD
    https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1577303194224529408

    As I said yesterday, Tory party is having the massive nervous breakdown they should have in opposition whilst still nominally running the country.

    We need a GE now.

    We have at least two years of this. Maybe more.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    Has Elon been tweeting again?

    @OzKaterji
    Them: "How dare you call us apologists for Russian fascism!"

    Russian Fascism: "Thank you very much for all the apologism you are doing for us <3"

    @maxseddon
    5h
    Putin’s spokesman says the Kremlin considers it “very positive” that @elonmusk is “looking for ways out of the situation around Ukraine” https://t.me/rian_ru/180357</i&gt;

    https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1577247751913451520?cxt=HHwWgMCt-aieweMrAAAA
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyhow, at least someone's enjoying conference.

    This Tory conference is so amazingly messy I still can't believe it's real. Ministers going completely rogue, MPs barely here but still throwing shade left, right & centre, Tory members downing champagne while half laughing/half crying "we're all f***ed". It's WILD
    https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1577303194224529408

    As I said yesterday, Tory party is having the massive nervous breakdown they should have in opposition whilst still nominally running the country.

    We need a GE now.

    We have at least two years of this. Maybe more.
    Although its not being helped by conference season right now. Tories should have cancelled out of respect. The public ignore politics most of the time, so stop talking, get doing and bide your time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyhow, at least someone's enjoying conference.

    This Tory conference is so amazingly messy I still can't believe it's real. Ministers going completely rogue, MPs barely here but still throwing shade left, right & centre, Tory members downing champagne while half laughing/half crying "we're all f***ed". It's WILD
    https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1577303194224529408

    As I said yesterday, Tory party is having the massive nervous breakdown they should have in opposition whilst still nominally running the country.

    We need a GE now.

    We have at least two years of this. Maybe more.
    2 years 3 months, maximum.

    If they get an extension beyond that it will because they have actually recovered some poise and judgement.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    I'd missed that Tory minister has announced scrapping GPDR for UK companies, so any that trade in EU will have two sets of data protection to manage.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,365
    ICYMI the King had his first winner on the turf when Just Fine won today's 3.10 at Leicester.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,220
    Mr Away,

    Women prefer some jobs, men prefer others.

    "The gender balance of the veterinary profession has changed dramatically in the last 30 to 40 years and having once been very much in the minority, women now account for almost 60 % of practicing vets registered with the RCVS. This is a statistic is likely to increase even further considering that almost 80 % of students enrolling in the veterinary degree course are female.

    Men still outnumber women in medicine, but not in the specialism of General Practice. It only counts if men are on top in the more prestigious professions, so work is still to be done. Men outnumbering women in the poorer-paid professions will never be a problem.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    Scott_xP said:

    Column: from recreational use, to high-functioning addiction to desperate junkies - under Truss the Tory ideology habit is now completely out of control.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/04/liz-truss-tories-ideology-fiscal-voters

    Gone full Zammo since I filed this.
    https://twitter.com/rafaelbehr/status/1577316732670296064

    It is rather interesting that the Tories saw the dangers of a leader pursuing ideology above all else without the support of their MPs, in order to please the membership, and they decided to follow suit, even though they won by being far more flexible (yes yes, other issues too).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    How do they think half this stuff will get thru HoL if it even makes it out of Commons?

    HoL can delay crap that was not in a manifesto.

    On that subject of course, thinking about one or two earlier suggestions work might be stopped, whether you like HS2 or not it has been authorised by an act of parliament and it would now require further primary legislation for it to be stopped.
    I hope that ministers take personal responsibility for the sunk costs.
    One of HS2 leading champions is the Tory mayor of W Midlands.

    As I say - complete nervous breakdown.

    The new team of bonkers bat people are just looking for any cost they can slash to justify tax cuts for big business.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Exc: Liz Truss tells how she has plans to buy tens of billions in future gas supply from Norway at close to current price

    ✅stability of supply and price
    ❌debt and deficit - this will cost a LOT

    Here's extract from this morning's interview https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1577251420876820481 https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1577324656016621571/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Net government approval on...

    Inflation -76*
    Economy -75*
    Immig. -65
    Tax -64*
    NHS -62*
    Housing -53*
    Welfare -45
    Crime -43
    Transport -39
    Brexit -39
    Environ. -35
    Education -27
    Unemploy. -15
    Defence +8
    Terrorism +27

    *worst since tracker began in Jun 2019

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/economy/trackers/how-the-government-is-handling-the-economy-in-the-uk https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399/photo/1
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    CD13 said:

    Mr Away,

    Women prefer some jobs, men prefer others.

    "The gender balance of the veterinary profession has changed dramatically in the last 30 to 40 years and having once been very much in the minority, women now account for almost 60 % of practicing vets registered with the RCVS. This is a statistic is likely to increase even further considering that almost 80 % of students enrolling in the veterinary degree course are female.

    Men still outnumber women in medicine, but not in the specialism of General Practice. It only counts if men are on top in the more prestigious professions, so work is still to be done. Men outnumbering women in the poorer-paid professions will never be a problem.

    Having sat on Athena-Swan committees at Uni I am fully aware that the process is very one sided. Pharmacy is heading rapidly to be an all female profession. I opined that this is a bad thing, but no-one else seemed to care. And yet it is a bad thing. Women are significanlty more likely to take career breaks (children, and often then reduced hours for many years). This affects workforce planning. If your graduates only end up working 60% over their careers , you need to find the other 40% somewhere.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,452
    kle4 said:

    Has Elon been tweeting again?

    @OzKaterji
    Them: "How dare you call us apologists for Russian fascism!"

    Russian Fascism: "Thank you very much for all the apologism you are doing for us <3"

    @maxseddon
    5h
    Putin’s spokesman says the Kremlin considers it “very positive” that @elonmusk is “looking for ways out of the situation around Ukraine” https://t.me/rian_ru/180357</i&gt;

    https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1577247751913451520?cxt=HHwWgMCt-aieweMrAAAA

    Yes, Leon posted Muski's musings. Or rather, EM's suck-job sales pitch to Putin.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    How do they think half this stuff will get thru HoL if it even makes it out of Commons?

    HoL can delay crap that was not in a manifesto.

    On that subject of course, thinking about one or two earlier suggestions work might be stopped, whether you like HS2 or not it has been authorised by an act of parliament and it would now require further primary legislation for it to be stopped.
    I hope that ministers take personal responsibility for the sunk costs.
    One of HS2 leading champions is the Tory mayor of W Midlands.

    As I say - complete nervous breakdown.

    The new team of bonkers bat people are just looking for any cost they can slash to justify tax cuts for big business.
    Incoherence and incompetence is right up this lot's Street.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,075
    edited October 4
    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    Boundary Commission announced the latest consultation on new boundaries to start next month. Can they make it through to July when the seats are due to be confirmed?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    The death of a political party, filmed up close for the first time ever. It’s like an Attenborough film about extinction. https://twitter.com/PravG/status/1577318245836722182/video/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Labour lead by 38% in the Red Wall, up from 15% two weeks ago.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (3-4 Oct.):

    Labour 61% (+12)
    Conservative 23% (-11)
    Reform UK 3% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (+2)
    Green 4% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19-20 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-3-4-october-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104/photo/1
  • Hello_CloudsHello_Clouds Posts: 97
    edited October 4
    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another good night for Ukraine. Several more towns taken in Kharkiv and Kherson Oblasts, including the key town of Borova in the East.

    Ukraine claiming 44 tanks and 27 APCs lost by Russia yesterday. Massive losses.
    The tank losses are getting silly now. I think that every tank in Russia, bar a few parade prototypes, is in Ukraine or heading there at the moment. The fall of Kherson will be fun, as there’s going to be a few hundred tanks there with no way out. The Russians appear to have no idea how to wage tank warfare, especially against a modern enemy. Even the recent-model tanks, appear to be seen as expendable.
    Came across this article from July, which in part suggests that tanks are being withdrawn from storage and sent to the front without basic checks being made on their readiness. The tank equivalent of sending new conscripts to the front in shorts and flip-flops.

    The fact that the Russian army can still fight at all must reflect herculean efforts by some of the front line soldiers. It makes you wonder how much longer they can keep things going.

    https://nadinbrzezinski.medium.com/logistics-collapse-945984f5d48e
    Good piece. Give it a couple of weeks, and we’ll likely see the new conscripts turn up in shorts and flip flops, just as the snow starts falling.
    Do you think Ukraine will be able to keep up their offensive in the winter months or will that freeze the conflict until the spring?

    At the moment the Russians rather look like a team that should in theory be doing well like Man Utd getting thrashed in the first half and desperately awaiting the half time whistle so they can go back inside for a break.
    Yet also a team which has nuclear missiles ie effectively their star striker is on the bench if they face complete defeat by Ukraine
    Nuclear missiles are not a star striker and don't score goals in wars of aggression. They are equivalent to walking off the pitch, not scoring a goal, since the 'game' would be over and Russia would be annihilated by MAD if they were stupid enough to use nukes.

    Preventing nuclear escalation means ensuring we respond with our full force if Russia were to attempt it.
    Russia could also annihilate NATO with nuclear missiles too however if NATO responded militarily and got involved in a direct war with Russia over Russian actions in Ukraine
    They probable couldn't actually.

    But that's why NATO haven't got directly involved, but if Russia were to escalate it into a nuclear conflict, which would involve radiation hitting NATO nations, then we would be involved and it would need to be a direct war. Which is why the line has to be drawn for Russia, escalate to nukes and we are involved and you know what that means.
    It means we are annihilated in nuclear holocaust as well as most of Russia despite the fact Ukraine is not even in NATO!
    Poland is in NATO and a nuclear attack on Ukraine would hit Poland too. 🤦‍♂️

    If Russia choose to start a nuclear holocaust then that's their choice, but they need to be in no doubt that we will take a nuclear strike that hits Poland/Ukraine the same as a nuclear strike that hits London.
    Not directly and not worth starting WW3 over unless Russia directly nuked or invaded Poland which is a NATO member state unlike Ukraine
    If Russia escalate to nuclear conflict we won't be the ones starting WW3 though, they will.

    If we make clear to Russia that we can't stand idly by while nuclear weapons are used in Europe, and they choose to use them anyway, then they've started WW3 and we need to fight it and win it.

    Being weak in the face of nuclear aggression just increases the risk of a nuclear escalation, it doesn't reduce it.
    Exactly.

    You’ve got those saying that yes, we have to give in if Putin ever detonates a nuke, unless it’s literally to preserve the UK. And confident he’ll never push it to the UK, because we’ve got nukes, too.

    Okay. Then what happens?

    If we make the call that we must give in to at least some of what he wants if he ever detonates a nuke, he’ll probably notice that. And so will all the other countries in the world. Together with the codicil that “at least he won’t attack us, because we’ve got nukes too.”

    If we’d surrender to Putin’s aggression in Ukraine – would we really risk death for Estonia? What would Tallinn think? Or Moscow?

    How about Poland? Putin would have shown he’ll detonate a nuke and has got away with it. What would Warsaw think?

    If you’re in any of those countries, you’re getting nukes and getting them NOW. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan. And with them having nukes, and there being no taboo on nukes, which country WON’T get nukes? In a world of “safe” and “victim,” not having nukes puts you in the category of “victim.”

    What about Ukraine? A few years down the line, what happens there? Russia decides Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, and Odesa look like they should be Russian, and, after regenerating as much as they can, make a stab for them. And this time, when fully extended, rather than letting the conventional fight go against them, it’s bucket-of-instant-sunshine time and “Stop there! We win!”

    Ukraine knows this. So they HAVE to build nukes themselves. At which point, they’ll want their occupied territories back. Tac-nuke versus tac-nuke. Rumours of someone smuggling a nuke into Moscow or Kyiv.
    Basically – if Putin benefits AT ALL from use of a nuke, non-proliferation is gone. Use of nukes is no longer taboo. Massive rush for nuclear weapons. Even without flashpoints like Ukraine (or Taiwan, or North Korea), we’d see nukes used again within five years somewhere. And we’d see nukes used again in Ukraine in a few years as well – and possibly by both sides.

    What’s the odds of London dying in nuclear fire in that world?

    We stop it here, or we never stop it.
    If Ukraine wants to develop its own nukes again that is its affair.

    However it is not in NATO and we only go to WW3 for NATO states defence
    We don't have to go to WW3.
    We have to ensure that Putin is materially worse off from detonating a nuke.
    How do you do that without starting WW3? Which can be assumed as undesirable for the purposes of this Beispiel.
    So, your alternative is what? That whenever someone even mentions the word 'nuke', we all say 'sorry sir, my apologies sir'?

    And if we do that, don't you think there's just the tiniest chance that this increases the chance that the word 'nuke' is mentioned more in future?

    This is all fairly simple game theory stuff. And is exactly the reason why British troops would have had to have gone to Estonia in the event that Russia had invaded. (Something you were incredibly reticent to do, IIRC.)

    If you want to minimise the possibility of Armageddon, you need to be willing to accept Armageddon as an outcome.
    You could obviously have given Bertrand Russell, who supported unilateral nuclear disarmament (once both the USA and the USSR had nukes), a lesson in really simple maths stuff.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    Scott_xP said:

    Exc: Liz Truss tells how she has plans to buy tens of billions in future gas supply from Norway at close to current price

    ✅stability of supply and price
    ❌debt and deficit - this will cost a LOT

    Here's extract from this morning's interview https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1577251420876820481 https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1577324656016621571/photo/1

    It's Gordon Brown and the gold reserves but on a much bigger scale.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 637

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Her speech tomorrow and the reaction to it are going to be well worth tuning in for.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    edited October 4

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    I can't believe my eyes. Wipe out. Forget Red Wall, they'll barely hold Surrey on these satisfaction ratings.

    Incredible.

    SKSICIPM

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 10,452
    So is Madame Whiplash's recent 180 u-turn now causing her and her "government" to experience bad case of . . . wait for it . . . whiplash?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Only Labour will deliver a government that works for working people. https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1577327937841516545/video/1
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 555

    I'd missed that Tory minister has announced scrapping GPDR for UK companies, so any that trade in EU will have two sets of data protection to manage.

    Not just trade. Won't make health research collaborations any easier, though since we're effectively locked out of Horizon it might not make a huge amount of difference!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465

    kle4 said:

    Has Elon been tweeting again?

    @OzKaterji
    Them: "How dare you call us apologists for Russian fascism!"

    Russian Fascism: "Thank you very much for all the apologism you are doing for us <3"

    @maxseddon
    5h
    Putin’s spokesman says the Kremlin considers it “very positive” that @elonmusk is “looking for ways out of the situation around Ukraine” https://t.me/rian_ru/180357</i&gt;

    https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1577247751913451520?cxt=HHwWgMCt-aieweMrAAAA

    Yes, Leon posted Muski's musings. Or rather, EM's suck-job sales pitch to Putin.
    I miss when billionaires were aloof, distant, tyrants unknowable to the poor masses but probably massively respected in their industries for their success.

    Now they mouth off on twitter like everyone else it makes them seem like dweebs and fools.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,092
    Unpopular said:

    I'd missed that Tory minister has announced scrapping GPDR for UK companies, so any that trade in EU will have two sets of data protection to manage.

    Not just trade. Won't make health research collaborations any easier, though since we're effectively locked out of Horizon it might not make a huge amount of difference!
    Unless they're planning on selling personal data to the US corporations?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,540
    edited October 4
    ohnotnow said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Her speech tomorrow and the reaction to it are going to be well worth tuning in for.
    I thought blood sports were illegal in this country?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    Labour now lead by 38% in the redwall seats Boris won.

    Truss has gifted them all back to Starmer on a plate it seems
    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?s=20&t=et4Y-q0s_ky0cDse3VxLNQ
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Former chief whip Mark Harper sharply criticises cabinet ministers undermining Truss: “if that's how we're going to carry on, it isn't going to work”

    “This might sound very strange coming from somebody who spent my entire summer break campaigning for Rishi Sunak to be PM”

    https://twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1577329620323635202
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,092
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Has Elon been tweeting again?

    @OzKaterji
    Them: "How dare you call us apologists for Russian fascism!"

    Russian Fascism: "Thank you very much for all the apologism you are doing for us <3"

    @maxseddon
    5h
    Putin’s spokesman says the Kremlin considers it “very positive” that @elonmusk is “looking for ways out of the situation around Ukraine” https://t.me/rian_ru/180357</i&gt;

    https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1577247751913451520?cxt=HHwWgMCt-aieweMrAAAA

    Yes, Leon posted Muski's musings. Or rather, EM's suck-job sales pitch to Putin.
    I miss when billionaires were aloof, distant, tyrants unknowable to the poor masses but probably massively respected in their industries for their success.

    Now they mouth off on twitter like everyone else it makes them seem like dweebs and fools.
    One wonders what Andrew Carnegie's Twitter accoutn would be like. Plenty of "The average person puts only 25% of his energy and ability into his work. The world takes off its hat to those who put in more than 50% of their capacity, and stands on its head for those few and far between souls who devote 100%". He'd fit right in today at Brum conference.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour lead by 38% in the Red Wall, up from 15% two weeks ago.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (3-4 Oct.):

    Labour 61% (+12)
    Conservative 23% (-11)
    Reform UK 3% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (+2)
    Green 4% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19-20 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-3-4-october-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104/photo/1

    60+% ?????

    Unheard of.

    Johnson must be wetting himself. His plan to make Truss leader knowing she would be an utter disaster cannot have gone better.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    ohnotnow said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Her speech tomorrow and the reaction to it are going to be well worth tuning in for.
    I honestly cannot predict what she will go for. The sorts of ratings they are getting on the economy are indeed apocalyptic, and she's made some tweaks, but the party is mutinous already, so how does she pitch this? She cannot go for the lady is not for turning as she did turn, sensibly, but no one but her seems to believe her economic pitch will work now (even if they thought it would work initially, things have taken a turn as a result), so is she just going to say how great it is going to be?

    The attempt to shift position means they won't be trusted if they reverse, but there's no benefit to pushing on either if no one believes it. So she's stuck.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Her speech tomorrow and the reaction to it are going to be well worth tuning in for.
    I honestly cannot predict what she will go for. The sorts of ratings they are getting on the economy are indeed apocalyptic, and she's made some tweaks, but the party is mutinous already, so how does she pitch this? She cannot go for the lady is not for turning as she did turn, sensibly, but no one but her seems to believe her economic pitch will work now (even if they thought it would work initially, things have taken a turn as a result), so is she just going to say how great it is going to be?

    The attempt to shift position means they won't be trusted if they reverse, but there's no benefit to pushing on either if no one believes it. So she's stuck.
    There's always cheese.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    #OTD 1994. Tony Blair gives first speech to conference as leader

    He describes the Tories as "the most feckless, irresponsible group of incompetents ever let loose in government"

    https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1577329464379379713/video/1
  • PJHPJH Posts: 251

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Sorry, but the Tories have just had their leadership election and the result has to be respected, as any Brexiteer (as most of them are) should insist. That's it until the next General Election.

    Any change before then would make the Tories a laughing stock. Getting rid of an unsuitable leader is one thing, but you can't spend 2 months choosing a replacement and depose them immediately. The fact that Liz Truss won meant all the alternatives are worse.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,529
    CD13 said:

    Mr Away,

    Women prefer some jobs, men prefer others.

    "The gender balance of the veterinary profession has changed dramatically in the last 30 to 40 years and having once been very much in the minority, women now account for almost 60 % of practicing vets registered with the RCVS. This is a statistic is likely to increase even further considering that almost 80 % of students enrolling in the veterinary degree course are female.

    Men still outnumber women in medicine, but not in the specialism of General Practice. It only counts if men are on top in the more prestigious professions, so work is still to be done. Men outnumbering women in the poorer-paid professions will never be a problem.

    Are you sure about your last sentence? I would have thought women outnumber men in the poorer-paid professions, rather than vice versa.
    Caring, cleaning, catering and personal services, for example, are female dominated and tend to be very poorly paid.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,876

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    I can't believe my eyes. Wipe out. Forget Red Wall, they'll barely hold Surrey on these satisfaction ratings.

    Incredible.

    SKSICIPM

    It would be funny if it were a short report for the foreign news section of the bulletin. "New Premier makes complete mess of things." But less funny when you live here.

    Actually- forget the UK. Is there any new PM anywhere who has soiled themselves so utterly so quickly? What happened next?
  • Hello_CloudsHello_Clouds Posts: 97
    edited October 4
    You know what the Tories need to get rid of the 38pp Labour poll lead in the Red Wall?

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    War - that's what they need.

    Personally I don't think Johnson will come back. But if he does, his personal image won't be sufficient on its own.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,529
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour lead by 38% in the Red Wall, up from 15% two weeks ago.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (3-4 Oct.):

    Labour 61% (+12)
    Conservative 23% (-11)
    Reform UK 3% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (+2)
    Green 4% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19-20 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-3-4-october-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104/photo/1

    'Tis but a scratch.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    PJH said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Sorry, but the Tories have just had their leadership election and the result has to be respected, as any Brexiteer (as most of them are) should insist. That's it until the next General Election.

    Any change before then would make the Tories a laughing stock. Getting rid of an unsuitable leader is one thing, but you can't spend 2 months choosing a replacement and depose them immediately. The fact that Liz Truss won meant all the alternatives are worse.
    The DUP did it, but admittedly that is not a positive precedent.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,075
    ohnotnow said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Her speech tomorrow and the reaction to it are going to be well worth tuning in for.
    Indeed and hopefully the last time she addresses the party

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for a political party that is so out of touch with public opinion

    Windfall taxes

    Fracking

    Reducing tax for the wealthy

    Scrapping ban on bankers bonuses

    Threatening to pay less than inflation in benefits

    Confirmation that pensioners will receive inflation increases next Apr


    Utter and complete insanity and conservative mps must look back to Sunak's warnings and despair at the membership

    I can only wish Starmer and labour well and to be honest it is an affront that the next GE is 2 more years away

    I will find it difficult to vote for labour but at this moment in time I would do anything to see the back of this shameful government and indeed my vote is irrelevant in view of the scale of a labour landslide
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,876
    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Her speech tomorrow and the reaction to it are going to be well worth tuning in for.
    I honestly cannot predict what she will go for. The sorts of ratings they are getting on the economy are indeed apocalyptic, and she's made some tweaks, but the party is mutinous already, so how does she pitch this? She cannot go for the lady is not for turning as she did turn, sensibly, but no one but her seems to believe her economic pitch will work now (even if they thought it would work initially, things have taken a turn as a result), so is she just going to say how great it is going to be?

    The attempt to shift position means they won't be trusted if they reverse, but there's no benefit to pushing on either if no one believes it. So she's stuck.
    She might as well demonstrate some origami for all the good it will do her.

    Or tell us about That Necklace.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,361
    CD13 said:

    Mr Away,

    Women prefer some jobs, men prefer others.

    "The gender balance of the veterinary profession has changed dramatically in the last 30 to 40 years and having once been very much in the minority, women now account for almost 60 % of practicing vets registered with the RCVS. This is a statistic is likely to increase even further considering that almost 80 % of students enrolling in the veterinary degree course are female.

    Men still outnumber women in medicine, but not in the specialism of General Practice. It only counts if men are on top in the more prestigious professions, so work is still to be done. Men outnumbering women in the poorer-paid professions will never be a problem.

    There have been more women than men coming into the solicitors profession in England for quite some time now.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 251
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour lead by 38% in the Red Wall, up from 15% two weeks ago.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (3-4 Oct.):

    Labour 61% (+12)
    Conservative 23% (-11)
    Reform UK 3% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (+2)
    Green 4% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19-20 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-3-4-october-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104/photo/1

    I see from the detail the 2019 result was 40-47, so that's a 22% swing.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,380

    Carnyx said:

    Some compulsory reporting on annual reports should be culled - All the environmental stuff put in now by a lot of companies and organisations is just meaningless given it is not audited (unlike the finances) so all companies just present selected stuff in the best possible virtue signalling light and pretend everything is fine .Nobody reads it either .So pointless and potentially damaging as well . Same for gender equality rubbish - Do Shell rerally need to strive for more female oil rig workers to get to say 50% - nah its always going to be a job more attrative to males so lets not pretend otherwise - same with NHS midwives the other way around.

    Is it compulsorym in the legal sense? I suspect a lot of what you imply actually isn't.
    It pretty much is. These accounts are all audited and its part of an auditors job (and I'm one of them) to cover these things. We would flag it up, and not give a clean report if it didn't.

    We're crap at the actual numbers in the accounts or if it's going to go bust, but on this we're shit hot....

    Edit: just to clear it up, what we do

    'In connection with our audit of the financial statements, our responsibility is to read the other information and, in doing so, consider whether the other information is materially inconsistent with the financial statements or our knowledge obtained in the audit or otherwise appears to be materially misstated.'

    So, there's a degree of work, but not all covering....
    Better than I.
    When we see the SECR in the accounts, we take it at face value. We have no knowledge, skill or experience to challenge what they say so we put it in without comment.

    I'm an auditor (accountant) not an energy consultant......
    (and therein lies the problem)

    Anyway, I was hoping therefore that this means that soon M as well as S (in SME) will be audit exempt. Sooner you get rid of the non-indepedent audit for Medium sized entities the better.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Policy is dead and it wasn’t even announced https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1577331619769290752
  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,132
    (Just answering ydoether from the last thread)
    ydoethur said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    darkage said:

    "A thread about my evening.

    Teatime. I was doing a roast chicken. Knock at the door. Two coppers. There’s been an allegation of harassment and malicious comms and we’ve come to arrest you."


    https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1577092705154666496

    I find it very strange the selective outrage about police procedure. Yes, this must have been pretty difficult for her, but by all accounts she seems to have been treated civilly by the cops. If she was harassing someone online, that should be investigated, and gathering the information for that would require searching items connected to the internet.

    This wasn't a "put in the van and accidentally broke their neck" or "fell down the stairs" or literal beating. This was a "we need to question you at the police station, and also look for evidence of alleged crime, if you don't mind".

    As for whether she harassed people online or not, that's down to a court, I guess?
    IANAL but since when can the Police enter a home and seize people's private property without a warrant?

    That absolutely sounds like harassment to me. If there's evidence of a crime, then investigate it yes, but seizing materials or forcing entry should only happen with a warrant surely?
    I mean, that I agree with, but cops are given broad license for stuff. I know they often argue they don't need a warrant if they are looking for a person and know where that person is / have suspicion that person is in a place, but I too am not a lawyer. Like, I don't trust cops, but on the spectrum of "bad cop experience" this sounds like what we would want most interactions with the police to me?
    Well, IF you believe her then that is an absolutely outrageous interaction. To do whatever they did, march her off to the cells, and all on the word apparently of someone else. But they were polite. Jesus H Christ.

    And even if she had done whatever someone said she had done (still wholly unclear to me) then is that worth a spell in the cells rather than interview at their mutual convenience? Where was the imminent threat to the person or public order?
    As someone who has also been frogmarched to a cell before questioning and thinking these exact same things - yes, it sounds like she was treated well.

    And if someone is accused of online harassment, how do you investigate the validity of that without questioning someone, or looking into their devices that go online? Like, she may deny saying things, but you would still need to corroborate that.
    You (as the police), first look at what’s been written online, and ask a magistrate for a warrant to discover the identity of the person posting the messages if they also consider them to be harrasment.

    Then approach the platform on which the alleged harrasment took place, and ask for their logs.

    What you don’t do, is arrest someone without due process, for a non-violent crime where there is no immediate danger to anyone.
    Yeah, that kind of thing will work on Google, or Facebook, or any firm located in the UK (or the EU). It won’t work on KiwiFarms.

    It’s entirely plausible to me that the only way to connect this woman with her KF accounts (if they exist) is to grab her devices & go through them to look for digital forensic evidence.

    This /is/ the appropriate due process.
    That sort of thing should need to be signed off by a judge, based on the available evidence from the complainant that the person in question is actually responsible for the messages in question, and that the messages themselves exceed the standard of illegality.

    Otherwise it’s simply middle-class swatting, using the police to harass someone who’s upset you. Police should *always* need warrants, where there is no immediate risk of physical harm.
    They had a warrant: The arrest warrant is sufficient, as previously explained. Someone has authorised that arrest warrant.

    It may be that the police have over stepped the mark & there’s no evidence that actually connects this woman with the KF accounts in question. If someone has falsely claimed to the police that these accounts are the same person then that would carry consequences itself I would hope.
    Hi Phil

    One point about this - according to that thread, they *didn't* have a warrant. Either a search warrant or an arrest warrant. They said when challenged that they did not need one. They do not need a warrant to question somebody, of course, but they would to take away property unless the owner gave consent knowing they did not have to.

    Which means prima facie in arresting somebody and seizing computer equipment claiming they could do so without a warrant the officers in question have exceeded their powers.
    They arrested her. They must have had an arrest warrant. Indeed, her tweets say that she was arrested, ergo they had a warrant for her arrest: https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1577104334776864768?s=20&t=RPfMw8k3wsUjWHaTTKO3gQ

    What they didn’t have was a search warrant but, as previously explained, they didn’t need one.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,380
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Some compulsory reporting on annual reports should be culled - All the environmental stuff put in now by a lot of companies and organisations is just meaningless given it is not audited (unlike the finances) so all companies just present selected stuff in the best possible virtue signalling light and pretend everything is fine .Nobody reads it either .So pointless and potentially damaging as well . Same for gender equality rubbish - Do Shell rerally need to strive for more female oil rig workers to get to say 50% - nah its always going to be a job more attrative to males so lets not pretend otherwise - same with NHS midwives the other way around.

    Is it compulsorym in the legal sense? I suspect a lot of what you imply actually isn't.
    It pretty much is. These accounts are all audited and its part of an auditors job (and I'm one of them) to cover these things. We would flag it up, and not give a clean report if it didn't.

    We're crap at the actual numbers in the accounts or if it's going to go bust, but on this we're shit hot....
    Ta. I can get that you do the sums, but do the figures on "environmental stuff" and "gender equality rubbish" have to be there by law (as opposed to being correct by law if they are put in, which is your job)?
    Large entities have to report the environmental stuff as you put it (SECR - Streamlined Energy and Carbon Reporting). No idea about the gender pay gap stuff. It might be only for entities that are both Large and have more than 500 employees. I only tend to audit SMEs (and a few large entities) so couldn't honestly answer.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 251
    kle4 said:

    PJH said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Sorry, but the Tories have just had their leadership election and the result has to be respected, as any Brexiteer (as most of them are) should insist. That's it until the next General Election.

    Any change before then would make the Tories a laughing stock. Getting rid of an unsuitable leader is one thing, but you can't spend 2 months choosing a replacement and depose them immediately. The fact that Liz Truss won meant all the alternatives are worse.
    The DUP did it, but admittedly that is not a positive precedent.
    Good point, I'd forgotten about that, But they weren't the UK Governing party at the time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    Scott_xP said:

    #OTD 1994. Tony Blair gives first speech to conference as leader

    He describes the Tories as "the most feckless, irresponsible group of incompetents ever let loose in government"

    https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1577329464379379713/video/1

    Truss: "Hold my cheese."
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,222
    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Her speech tomorrow and the reaction to it are going to be well worth tuning in for.
    I honestly cannot predict what she will go for. The sorts of ratings they are getting on the economy are indeed apocalyptic, and she's made some tweaks, but the party is mutinous already, so how does she pitch this? She cannot go for the lady is not for turning as she did turn, sensibly, but no one but her seems to believe her economic pitch will work now (even if they thought it would work initially, things have taken a turn as a result), so is she just going to say how great it is going to be?

    The attempt to shift position means they won't be trusted if they reverse, but there's no benefit to pushing on either if no one believes it. So she's stuck.
    I predict full-on ra ra "I will NOT accept the stale old consensus that the best we can do is managed decline and that our rightful place is in the second division of nations. We are GREAT Britain. We belong in the top tier. Just look at the variety and quality of our cheeses."
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,121
    ohnotnow said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Her speech tomorrow and the reaction to it are going to be well worth tuning in for.
    Her speech will be funereal in tone (because all her speeches are nowadays, since she got flak for the cheese speech) delivered to a funereal audience. It will mark the passing of the Tory Party’s days in government. The only question now is whether they want to try and save some face and limit the defeat - and if so this will be the only conference speech Truss makes as leader.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,735

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour lead by 38% in the Red Wall, up from 15% two weeks ago.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (3-4 Oct.):

    Labour 61% (+12)
    Conservative 23% (-11)
    Reform UK 3% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (+2)
    Green 4% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19-20 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-3-4-october-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104/photo/1

    60+% ?????

    Unheard of.

    Johnson must be wetting himself. His plan to make Truss leader knowing she would be an utter disaster cannot have gone better.

    Yes but she's going to hand back command of a ship that's already sunk.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    I really hope this quote is verbatim...

    Kemi Badenoch says using the word “coup” over MPs and cabinet ministers “speaking our minds” is “inflammatory”. But dismisses talk of a cabinet split and says Truss doesn’t mind differing opinions until a policy is laid out.

    “We’re not zombies, we’re not automatrons.”


    https://twitter.com/Geri_E_L_Scott/status/1577332809030684672
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Scott_xP said:

    Policy is dead and it wasn’t even announced https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1577331619769290752

    Guess Frosty is bitter about no major Cabinet role, although on this one he is clearly right.

    5m on UC.

    You wanna definitely lose 5m votes, Liz?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,203

    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another good night for Ukraine. Several more towns taken in Kharkiv and Kherson Oblasts, including the key town of Borova in the East.

    Ukraine claiming 44 tanks and 27 APCs lost by Russia yesterday. Massive losses.
    The tank losses are getting silly now. I think that every tank in Russia, bar a few parade prototypes, is in Ukraine or heading there at the moment. The fall of Kherson will be fun, as there’s going to be a few hundred tanks there with no way out. The Russians appear to have no idea how to wage tank warfare, especially against a modern enemy. Even the recent-model tanks, appear to be seen as expendable.
    Came across this article from July, which in part suggests that tanks are being withdrawn from storage and sent to the front without basic checks being made on their readiness. The tank equivalent of sending new conscripts to the front in shorts and flip-flops.

    The fact that the Russian army can still fight at all must reflect herculean efforts by some of the front line soldiers. It makes you wonder how much longer they can keep things going.

    https://nadinbrzezinski.medium.com/logistics-collapse-945984f5d48e
    Good piece. Give it a couple of weeks, and we’ll likely see the new conscripts turn up in shorts and flip flops, just as the snow starts falling.
    Do you think Ukraine will be able to keep up their offensive in the winter months or will that freeze the conflict until the spring?

    At the moment the Russians rather look like a team that should in theory be doing well like Man Utd getting thrashed in the first half and desperately awaiting the half time whistle so they can go back inside for a break.
    Yet also a team which has nuclear missiles ie effectively their star striker is on the bench if they face complete defeat by Ukraine
    Nuclear missiles are not a star striker and don't score goals in wars of aggression. They are equivalent to walking off the pitch, not scoring a goal, since the 'game' would be over and Russia would be annihilated by MAD if they were stupid enough to use nukes.

    Preventing nuclear escalation means ensuring we respond with our full force if Russia were to attempt it.
    Russia could also annihilate NATO with nuclear missiles too however if NATO responded militarily and got involved in a direct war with Russia over Russian actions in Ukraine
    They probable couldn't actually.

    But that's why NATO haven't got directly involved, but if Russia were to escalate it into a nuclear conflict, which would involve radiation hitting NATO nations, then we would be involved and it would need to be a direct war. Which is why the line has to be drawn for Russia, escalate to nukes and we are involved and you know what that means.
    It means we are annihilated in nuclear holocaust as well as most of Russia despite the fact Ukraine is not even in NATO!
    Poland is in NATO and a nuclear attack on Ukraine would hit Poland too. 🤦‍♂️

    If Russia choose to start a nuclear holocaust then that's their choice, but they need to be in no doubt that we will take a nuclear strike that hits Poland/Ukraine the same as a nuclear strike that hits London.
    Not directly and not worth starting WW3 over unless Russia directly nuked or invaded Poland which is a NATO member state unlike Ukraine
    If Russia escalate to nuclear conflict we won't be the ones starting WW3 though, they will.

    If we make clear to Russia that we can't stand idly by while nuclear weapons are used in Europe, and they choose to use them anyway, then they've started WW3 and we need to fight it and win it.

    Being weak in the face of nuclear aggression just increases the risk of a nuclear escalation, it doesn't reduce it.
    Exactly.

    You’ve got those saying that yes, we have to give in if Putin ever detonates a nuke, unless it’s literally to preserve the UK. And confident he’ll never push it to the UK, because we’ve got nukes, too.

    Okay. Then what happens?

    If we make the call that we must give in to at least some of what he wants if he ever detonates a nuke, he’ll probably notice that. And so will all the other countries in the world. Together with the codicil that “at least he won’t attack us, because we’ve got nukes too.”

    If we’d surrender to Putin’s aggression in Ukraine – would we really risk death for Estonia? What would Tallinn think? Or Moscow?

    How about Poland? Putin would have shown he’ll detonate a nuke and has got away with it. What would Warsaw think?

    If you’re in any of those countries, you’re getting nukes and getting them NOW. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Finland. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan. And with them having nukes, and there being no taboo on nukes, which country WON’T get nukes? In a world of “safe” and “victim,” not having nukes puts you in the category of “victim.”

    What about Ukraine? A few years down the line, what happens there? Russia decides Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, and Odesa look like they should be Russian, and, after regenerating as much as they can, make a stab for them. And this time, when fully extended, rather than letting the conventional fight go against them, it’s bucket-of-instant-sunshine time and “Stop there! We win!”

    Ukraine knows this. So they HAVE to build nukes themselves. At which point, they’ll want their occupied territories back. Tac-nuke versus tac-nuke. Rumours of someone smuggling a nuke into Moscow or Kyiv.
    Basically – if Putin benefits AT ALL from use of a nuke, non-proliferation is gone. Use of nukes is no longer taboo. Massive rush for nuclear weapons. Even without flashpoints like Ukraine (or Taiwan, or North Korea), we’d see nukes used again within five years somewhere. And we’d see nukes used again in Ukraine in a few years as well – and possibly by both sides.

    What’s the odds of London dying in nuclear fire in that world?

    We stop it here, or we never stop it.
    If Ukraine wants to develop its own nukes again that is its affair.

    However it is not in NATO and we only go to WW3 for NATO states defence
    We don't have to go to WW3.
    We have to ensure that Putin is materially worse off from detonating a nuke.
    How do you do that without starting WW3? Which can be assumed as undesirable for the purposes of this Beispiel.
    So, your alternative is what? That whenever someone even mentions the word 'nuke', we all say 'sorry sir, my apologies sir'?

    And if we do that, don't you think there's just the tiniest chance that this increases the chance that the word 'nuke' is mentioned more in future?

    This is all fairly simple game theory stuff. And is exactly the reason why British troops would have had to have gone to Estonia in the event that Russia had invaded. (Something you were incredibly reticent to do, IIRC.)

    If you want to minimise the possibility of Armageddon, you need to be willing to accept Armageddon as an outcome.
    You could obviously have given Bertrand Russell, who supported unilateral nuclear disarmament (once both the USA and the USSR had nukes), a lesson in really simple maths stuff.
    You mean the Bertrand Russell who advocated nuclear war, before he discovered unilateral disarmament got him invited to better dinner parties?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Exc: Liz Truss tells how she has plans to buy tens of billions in future gas supply from Norway at close to current price

    ✅stability of supply and price
    ❌debt and deficit - this will cost a LOT

    Here's extract from this morning's interview https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1577251420876820481 https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1577324656016621571/photo/1

    It's Gordon Brown and the gold reserves but on a much bigger scale.
    Nothings been signed with Norway - the key thing will be to send in negotiators that can walk away tbh.
    If they get told they need to sign at any price, Norway friendly as they may be will rinse us
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    This is utterly extinction levels and Truss has to go to have any chance of any form of recovery but GE 24 is lost

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1577327506595643399?t=hhIBi7kXiSfD-gaFwa1mQg&s=19

    And this

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104?t=Db34gmPjrd1M2nhXmWJqTA&s=19

    Her speech tomorrow and the reaction to it are going to be well worth tuning in for.
    I honestly cannot predict what she will go for. The sorts of ratings they are getting on the economy are indeed apocalyptic, and she's made some tweaks, but the party is mutinous already, so how does she pitch this? She cannot go for the lady is not for turning as she did turn, sensibly, but no one but her seems to believe her economic pitch will work now (even if they thought it would work initially, things have taken a turn as a result), so is she just going to say how great it is going to be?

    The attempt to shift position means they won't be trusted if they reverse, but there's no benefit to pushing on either if no one believes it. So she's stuck.
    I predict full-on ra ra "I will NOT accept the stale old consensus that the best we can do is managed decline and that our rightful place is in the second division of nations. We are GREAT Britain. We belong in the top tier. Just look at the variety and quality of our cheeses."
    It's a strong case. Pungent even.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,581
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour lead by 38% in the Red Wall, up from 15% two weeks ago.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (3-4 Oct.):

    Labour 61% (+12)
    Conservative 23% (-11)
    Reform UK 3% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (+2)
    Green 4% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19-20 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-3-4-october-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104/photo/1

    The stepmom and dockside hooker analogies don't do justice to the beating the Truss is going to lead the Tory party to.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,977
    What will she come up with next? A good Trussite policy would be abolishing state schools. We could replace them with online courses, and put some of the money saved into funding youth activities.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,922
    Scott_xP said:

    #OTD 1994. Tony Blair gives first speech to conference as leader

    He describes the Tories as "the most feckless, irresponsible group of incompetents ever let loose in government"

    https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/1577329464379379713/video/1

    Truss is surprising on the upside on several key metrics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    Scott_xP said:

    I really hope this quote is verbatim...

    Kemi Badenoch says using the word “coup” over MPs and cabinet ministers “speaking our minds” is “inflammatory”. But dismisses talk of a cabinet split and says Truss doesn’t mind differing opinions until a policy is laid out.

    “We’re not zombies, we’re not automatrons.”


    https://twitter.com/Geri_E_L_Scott/status/1577332809030684672

    I hope so too, because it is a good point well made. Even a Cabinet has to be brought onside, and the party definitely, a new leader has reasonable excuse to seek to change direction, but they still need to persuade internally. They aren't emperors.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,581

    Scott_xP said:

    Policy is dead and it wasn’t even announced https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1577331619769290752

    Guess Frosty is bitter about no major Cabinet role, although on this one he is clearly right.

    5m on UC.

    You wanna definitely lose 5m votes, Liz?

    The benefits wedge issue doesn't work anymore.

    The pandemic which saw so many people receiving benefits (and the problems therein applying for them) has changed the perceptions on so called benefit scroungers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour lead by 38% in the Red Wall, up from 15% two weeks ago.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (3-4 Oct.):

    Labour 61% (+12)
    Conservative 23% (-11)
    Reform UK 3% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (+2)
    Green 4% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19-20 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-3-4-october-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104/photo/1

    The stepmom and dockside hooker analogies don't do justice to the beating the Truss is going to lead the Tory party to.
    Losing much of the Red Wall was survivable if they held the south (albeit undoing many years work, yes even pre Boris, in that area).

    But at the moment they will be losing a lot there too.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    "Rees Mogg is odious. The Eton drawl hides a nasty, rather dim and vastly over promoted creep."

    https://twitter.com/Redpeter99/status/1576999200491200513

    What a perfect description :D
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I really hope this quote is verbatim...

    Kemi Badenoch says using the word “coup” over MPs and cabinet ministers “speaking our minds” is “inflammatory”. But dismisses talk of a cabinet split and says Truss doesn’t mind differing opinions until a policy is laid out.

    “We’re not zombies, we’re not automatrons.”


    https://twitter.com/Geri_E_L_Scott/status/1577332809030684672

    I hope so too, because it is a good point well made. Even a Cabinet has to be brought onside, and the party definitely, a new leader has reasonable excuse to seek to change direction, but they still need to persuade internally. They aren't emperors.
    Indeed, but I was particularly curious about automatrons
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,529
    edited October 4

    Scott_xP said:

    Policy is dead and it wasn’t even announced https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1577331619769290752

    Guess Frosty is bitter about no major Cabinet role, although on this one he is clearly right.

    5m on UC.

    You wanna definitely lose 5m votes, Liz?

    I'm sure those on UC and other welfare benefits will understand the need to keep their benefit rises below inflation for the good of the country during these hard times. After all, those who would have benefited from losing the 45p tax rate have taken that policy reversal on the chin, haven't they?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,977
    edited October 4
    BREAKING: Elon Musk offers to proceed with the Twitter acquisition deal for the original price of $44 billion, Bloomberg reports.

    https://twitter.com/business/status/1577332352602234880
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,581

    Scott_xP said:

    Policy is dead and it wasn’t even announced https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/1577331619769290752

    Guess Frosty is bitter about no major Cabinet role, although on this one he is clearly right.

    5m on UC.

    You wanna definitely lose 5m votes, Liz?

    I'm sure those on UC and other welfare benefits will understand the need to keep their benefit rises below inflation for the good of the country during these hard times. After all, those who would have benefited from losing the 45p tax rate have taken it on the chin, haven't they?
    Especially so pensioners can have their inflation linked rise.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour lead by 38% in the Red Wall, up from 15% two weeks ago.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (3-4 Oct.):

    Labour 61% (+12)
    Conservative 23% (-11)
    Reform UK 3% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (+2)
    Green 4% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19-20 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-3-4-october-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1577327686430511104/photo/1

    60+% ?????

    Unheard of.

    Johnson must be wetting himself. His plan to make Truss leader knowing she would be an utter disaster cannot have gone better.

    It's red wall VI which was 48 CON 38 Lab at the last GE.
    Bassetlaw, Ashfield and Dudley North are the hardest seats for Lab amongst the Yougov redwall selection.
    They'd all go, so would stuff that's not polled but should be very very red wall like NE Derbyshire.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,092
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I really hope this quote is verbatim...

    Kemi Badenoch says using the word “coup” over MPs and cabinet ministers “speaking our minds” is “inflammatory”. But dismisses talk of a cabinet split and says Truss doesn’t mind differing opinions until a policy is laid out.

    “We’re not zombies, we’re not automatrons.”


    https://twitter.com/Geri_E_L_Scott/status/1577332809030684672

    I hope so too, because it is a good point well made. Even a Cabinet has to be brought onside, and the party definitely, a new leader has reasonable excuse to seek to change direction, but they still need to persuade internally. They aren't emperors.
    Indeed, but I was particularly curious about automatrons
    Perhaps as well Ms B isn't at Health.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    What time is Ms Truss's resignation statement Conference Speech due?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,222
    Nigelb said:

    DOJ case for obstruction against Trump (18 USC 1519) just got a lot stronger.

    "Trump asked one of his lawyers to tell [Archives] in early 2022 that Trump had returned all materials, but the lawyer declined because he was not sure the statement was true."

    https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1577067546137661440

    When you don't pay your lawyers...

    According to latest revelations he used to flush official documents down the bog on a regular basis.

    I'm getting close to my limit with him. I have more books to read - my family, knowing my interest, have bought me loads - but I'm not sure I'm up to it.
This discussion has been closed.