Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Is Biden going to run again? – politicalbetting.com

1235»

Comments

  • Options

    Cookie said:

    Thank goodness we are back to normal tomorrow. CoL has not gone away

    The CoL is a very boring crisis.
    That's not to deny its importance. But philosophically "shit, gas has gone up fourteen-fold, rendering it and everything it is used for" us not particularly philosophically interesting, and neither if the short term answers - "suck it up" or "whack it on the credit card ajd let the kids pay for it" are particularly satisfying. (The long term answers, mind, about how we move away from reliance on fossil fuels and the maniacs who sell them, is both interesting and satisfying.)
    And the news from Ukraine is almost all awful, even if notably less awful than when it appeared Ukraine would be overrun and enslaved.
    I must admit I have rather enjoyed the philosphical musings on the nature of Britishness, identity and sovereignty of the ladt ten days, along with the human drama of The Queue. I have surprised myself.
    I wouldn't want to keep it up for ever - ten days or so is about right - but in pure news terms it has been a welcome diversion.
    I'm surprised at myself here. Royal weddings are shit. But it turns out royal funerals are brilliant.
    It has been a welcome diversion in that sense yes, we return to the fetid toilet bowl am morgen.
    Back to the i reckon, you reckon and the nonsense of polls, PMQs et al
    Most of all its back to the sham breathless earnestness of them all. The offence taken, the deliberate content ripping of every word said, the misrepresentation of everything for polling advantage. Yay!
    No PMQs for a while
    Liz is up the road on Wed. Isn't it Therese and Angela?
    No - it is the swearing of allegiance by mps to the King

    No PMQS until after conferences
    Wasn't JRM meant to do a big announcement filling in details on the energy plan?

    Though this piece in tomorrow's (?) Times gives the impression that the details.may be trickier than was implied earlier.

    People familiar with the talks say some executives have been alarmed by ministers pushing to introduce such contracts before winter and fear this could inflict huge losses on those that have already hedged some of their power output for coming months below market prices.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bd32dca0-3771-11ed-84dd-c16384999350?shareToken=7a53f0508a3b1dc7647d21d3679e09dd

    Wouldn’t it be the “absence of a gain” not a loss?
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Your last paragraph is hilarious. 'Sheeple' and 'luddism' indeed. Perhaps instead there's also a certain amount of realism that for many working-class people WfH is an impossibility.
    They were deliberately provocative. Sheeple isn't an insult to the individuals doing a commute to a fixed point - its an observation of behaviour. Our society literally herds people like sheep into city centres to do the same tasks the same way then back out again of an evening. People are largely unthinking about this - like sheep being herded - because it is just what people are expected to do.

    Or they were, until Covid accelerated societal change by 10 years in a few months. Suddenly so many of these white collar jobs can be largely done from anywhere. None of it using new technology, simply adopting tech which had emerged in the years leading to Covid. We can now do most of these jobs anywhere with all the benefits that brings. Opposing this new reality is luddism - instead of throwing clogs into the machinery, our government leave "go back to your desk" instructions. Same effect.

    As for blue collar jobs, they largely must be done at a location. And whilst that is in long-term decline thanks to automation, it will not go away. So we need to ensure high quality and affordable housing is available. Which we utterly fail at currently.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,674
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A man who was invited to the Queen's funeral has missed the service because of rail disruption.

    Barry Boffy MBE, from Bristol, said "events conspired against me" after his train was stopped near Slough.

    The former British Transport Police employee eventually got to London but was then turned around by police who said he would not make it in time.

    Before setting off Mr Boffy had said: "These kind of things [the invitation] don't happen to people like me."

    The former British Transport Police head of inclusion and diversity was due to attend the state funeral after being awarded an MBE in this year's Queens Birthday Honours."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-62954760

    I had some sympathy until i got to his job title .
    Mind, it did affect all travellers - almost no trains still today. There's obviously been some very serious damage to the overhead wires. They seem to be keeping quiet about what caused it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62929206
    Yes. Suspiciously so.

    There wasn't any extreme weather that day, was there?
    The length seems to imply that the damage was possibly caused by a train - a dodgy pantograph or something. One would need to know how long each bit of wire is before one can assess the chance that a material or installation defect would cause it. Either way, it sounds like a pretty big bill heading for someone.

    (Though I'm not sure why all four lines were pretty much closed. Perhaps that is for repair access, and/or the train crossed more than one line when it came onto the main line? And of course some electric trains just stopped and blocked their lines when the juice went.)
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,674

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Labour are not keen on it either though. Too many of their voters work in industries dependent on office culture, e.g. youngsters, transport workers, public sector frontline staff.

    About the only government group in favour of it are mid- and lower-level civil servants who don't have long commutes every day as a result of it, but their views won't count against managers and politicians like that slob Rees-Mogg.

    I think their problem will be that eventually people will simply vote with their feet and it will happen whether they like it or not. But that will be a messier and more painful transition than it needs to be if they were proactive.
    The government trying to stop it reminds me of Edward III trying to regulate feudal wages back to pre-plague levels in the aftermath of the Black Death.

    He failed. Market forces were too strong.
    Who will be Wat Tyler to lead the WFH peasant's revolt?
    Curious revolt, where everyone stays at home.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Labour are not keen on it either though. Too many of their voters work in industries dependent on office culture, e.g. youngsters, transport workers, public sector frontline staff.

    About the only government group in favour of it are mid- and lower-level civil servants who don't have long commutes every day as a result of it, but their views won't count against managers and politicians like that slob Rees-Mogg.

    I think their problem will be that eventually people will simply vote with their feet and it will happen whether they like it or not. But that will be a messier and more painful transition than it needs to be if they were proactive.
    The government trying to stop it reminds me of Edward III trying to regulate feudal wages back to pre-plague levels in the aftermath of the Black Death.

    He failed. Market forces were too strong.
    Who will be Wat Tyler to lead the WFH peasant's revolt?
    Curious revolt, where everyone stays at home.
    That's what I had in mind. Would anyone notice?
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Labour are not keen on it either though. Too many of their voters work in industries dependent on office culture, e.g. youngsters, transport workers, public sector frontline staff.

    About the only government group in favour of it are mid- and lower-level civil servants who don't have long commutes every day as a result of it, but their views won't count against managers and politicians like that slob Rees-Mogg.

    I think their problem will be that eventually people will simply vote with their feet and it will happen whether they like it or not. But that will be a messier and more painful transition than it needs to be if they were proactive.
    The government trying to stop it reminds me of Edward III trying to regulate feudal wages back to pre-plague levels in the aftermath of the Black Death.

    He failed. Market forces were too strong.
    Who will be Wat Tyler to lead the WFH peasant's revolt?
    Wat Typer.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,142
    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,592

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    Spectacular tone deafness by Trump. God he’s such a twat.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Your last paragraph is hilarious. 'Sheeple' and 'luddism' indeed. Perhaps instead there's also a certain amount of realism that for many working-class people WfH is an impossibility.
    They were deliberately provocative. Sheeple isn't an insult to the individuals doing a commute to a fixed point - its an observation of behaviour. Our society literally herds people like sheep into city centres to do the same tasks the same way then back out again of an evening. People are largely unthinking about this - like sheep being herded - because it is just what people are expected to do.

    Or they were, until Covid accelerated societal change by 10 years in a few months. Suddenly so many of these white collar jobs can be largely done from anywhere. None of it using new technology, simply adopting tech which had emerged in the years leading to Covid. We can now do most of these jobs anywhere with all the benefits that brings. Opposing this new reality is luddism - instead of throwing clogs into the machinery, our government leave "go back to your desk" instructions. Same effect.

    As for blue collar jobs, they largely must be done at a location. And whilst that is in long-term decline thanks to automation, it will not go away. So we need to ensure high quality and affordable housing is available. Which we utterly fail at currently.
    Oh come off it: "sheeple" is absolutely an insult - and coming from a lefty who has flexibility in where he works.

    Here's a question that I have no answer to, but would be interesting to see approximate guesstimates at: what proportion of jobs could be done at home full-time (aside from (say) weekly get-together meetings? 25%? 50%? 75%?

    Covid figures are not necessarily a good approximate, as much economic activity was paused at that time. One construction project in our village was paused for over six months, half-complete.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    Without seeing the arrangements to determine who was where, it seems plausible that row 14 was both correct and/or a horrific snub. If its commonwealth first then tough, should have thought about it before throwing all that tea in the bay. If its alphabet based then change the name to America, United States of.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,183

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    The only way Trump would have been given a seat at the front is if he'd been a ritual sacrifice to be buried with the Queen.

    And I'm thinking she would have refused his company for all eternity. Even worse than Witchell.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Britain may not strike a free trade deal with the US for years, Liz Truss has admitted ahead of her first bilateral meeting with Joe Biden.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1572090197948661760

    Good. About time we stopped fetishising “Trade Deals” - not clear why we’d want one with the US in any case. A welcome dose of realism.

    The realism is that she's not going to get a deal. Not about its lack of desirability.
    It's certainly a remarkable change of tune from Ms Truss after the last, what is it, 5-6 years. Could be very damaging for her with the Party.
    Is it?

    There's a difference between talking about the likelihood of trade deals in general, or with the USA in particular.

    Liam Fox as Trade Secretary didn't bother signing the trade deals that Liz Truss made, or those she got started working on which are coming down the tracks, but instead spent years banging on about a trade deal with the USA.

    One reason I respect her a lot is she's been working on free trade deals and has made a lot of noise about potential trade deals with the CPTPP and others. She's not been talking about a trade deal with the USA.

    The reality is that no trade deal is getting through the US Senate anyway. Its not happening, but free trade is good and there's many alternatives to America.

    For different reasons, the world's two biggest economic areas are now off the table; and the government is actively preparing to bin the one we have with the third biggest.

  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Your last paragraph is hilarious. 'Sheeple' and 'luddism' indeed. Perhaps instead there's also a certain amount of realism that for many working-class people WfH is an impossibility.
    They were deliberately provocative. Sheeple isn't an insult to the individuals doing a commute to a fixed point - its an observation of behaviour. Our society literally herds people like sheep into city centres to do the same tasks the same way then back out again of an evening. People are largely unthinking about this - like sheep being herded - because it is just what people are expected to do.

    Or they were, until Covid accelerated societal change by 10 years in a few months. Suddenly so many of these white collar jobs can be largely done from anywhere. None of it using new technology, simply adopting tech which had emerged in the years leading to Covid. We can now do most of these jobs anywhere with all the benefits that brings. Opposing this new reality is luddism - instead of throwing clogs into the machinery, our government leave "go back to your desk" instructions. Same effect.

    As for blue collar jobs, they largely must be done at a location. And whilst that is in long-term decline thanks to automation, it will not go away. So we need to ensure high quality and affordable housing is available. Which we utterly fail at currently.
    Oh come off it: "sheeple" is absolutely an insult - and coming from a lefty who has flexibility in where he works.

    Here's a question that I have no answer to, but would be interesting to see approximate guesstimates at: what proportion of jobs could be done at home full-time (aside from (say) weekly get-together meetings? 25%? 50%? 75%?

    Covid figures are not necessarily a good approximate, as much economic activity was paused at that time. One construction project in our village was paused for over six months, half-complete.
    Having spent 3 years of my life as an obedient sheeple I don't see it as an insult. It is people herded like sheep for the advancement of the people doing the herding.

    And "full time" is a BR-esque straw man. All hybrid jobs will involve some office working - team meetings, process meetings etc where the face to face interaction is needed. What has changed is that many of these can be done remotely by routine and face to face by exception, and other tasks can be done anywhere.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,958
    edited September 2022

    Stereodog said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Your last paragraph is hilarious. 'Sheeple' and 'luddism' indeed. Perhaps instead there's also a certain amount of realism that for many working-class people WfH is an impossibility.
    For those employees a decent employer could introduce other perks, flexible working or compressed hours for example. It’s lazy and disingenuous not to allow some staff benefits just because not everyone can have them. If you’re going to make that argument at least follow the logic and advocate that the CEO has the same employment terms as the janitor or the receptionist.
    Sometimes I get the impression this site is *far* too middle-class, with even the "up the workers!" lefties having f-all idea about the working class. Vast tranches of workers cannot work from home - from supermarket workers to builders. And lots of 'office' workers cannot realistically work from home either, especially if they interact with the public.

    I'm all for flexible working hours - but even then there are large numbers of jobs where that is not applicable.
    True, though those jobs are fairly well dispersed round the country anyway.

    One of the UK's problems is that our prosperity depends too much on highly-paid jobs that are tied to being in London. WFH might allow those to be done in other places, which can do a lot for levelling up.

    And yes, it's unfair, but that unfairness is there already. Have you seen what these people get in pay and perks?
    "Might allow"

    Yeah, might. For vast tranches of jobs, it does not. Before Covid, Mrs J was working from home one day a week. She worked from home five days a week during Covid, but has gone back to the office for three days a week.

    Why? Because even though it's mostly a sit-at-a-desk-and-design job, there is some lab work that needs to be done, and that is *highly* inefficient when done through third parties in the lab (it is far easier to just go down to the lab and diy).

    In addition, WfH stopped a certain amount of team dynamics: decisions always seemed to take longer when down over Skype/Teams etc.

    Also, she can just walk across the office and collar someone about a problem, rather than email them and hope they're available to Sype. Then there's the sociability aspects as well.

    So the WfH revolution has seen her change her habits from working from home one day a week to two days a week. And if it wasn't such a long commute, she probably would not WfH at all...
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,171
    ydoethur said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    The only way Trump would have been given a seat at the front is if he'd been a ritual sacrifice to be buried with the Queen.

    And I'm thinking she would have refused his company for all eternity. Even worse than Witchell.
    Nicholas Witchell was(is?) a strange one. Is he not still Royal Correspondent for the BBC? Yet that cannot be his only gainful employment as he is hardly ever on it. Did he retire?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994

    https://aviationsourcenews.com/analysis/why-was-the-c17-globemaster-used-to-transport-the-queens-coffin-back-to-london/

    Why they used the plane they did to bring HMQ to Northolt. Including a great comment from her.

    They could also have used A330MRTT or A400M. I suspect they used C-17 because it's very big and impressive looking and does not necessitate the indignity of putting the Gruz 200 on a forklift or ULD loader.
  • Options
    Work from home is entirely a matter for employers and employees, isn't it? if employers do not want to offer it, employees will either accept that or look elsewhere.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,964
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A man who was invited to the Queen's funeral has missed the service because of rail disruption.

    Barry Boffy MBE, from Bristol, said "events conspired against me" after his train was stopped near Slough.

    The former British Transport Police employee eventually got to London but was then turned around by police who said he would not make it in time.

    Before setting off Mr Boffy had said: "These kind of things [the invitation] don't happen to people like me."

    The former British Transport Police head of inclusion and diversity was due to attend the state funeral after being awarded an MBE in this year's Queens Birthday Honours."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-62954760

    I had some sympathy until i got to his job title .
    Mind, it did affect all travellers - almost no trains still today. There's obviously been some very serious damage to the overhead wires. They seem to be keeping quiet about what caused it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62929206
    Yes. Suspiciously so.

    There wasn't any extreme weather that day, was there?
    Nope but 2 miles of cable was damaged with no explanation provided.

    Possible causes are however numerous and a quick check in multiple places shows that no-one is gossiping that much.

    The overhead cables there are however an old design and that could be a large part of both the issue and why it's taking so long to resolve things - the fact trains are incapacitated so can't be move probably doesn't help either...
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    edited September 2022
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Tubbs, alphabetical order is not always wise for seating international leaders. You'd have Iran and Iraq next to each other, and Israel not far away...

    Edited extra bit: and yes, I did rip this off from Bernard/Sir Humphrey.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,674
    edited September 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://aviationsourcenews.com/analysis/why-was-the-c17-globemaster-used-to-transport-the-queens-coffin-back-to-london/

    Why they used the plane they did to bring HMQ to Northolt. Including a great comment from her.

    They could also have used A330MRTT or A400M. I suspect they used C-17 because it's very big and impressive looking and does not necessitate the indignity of putting the Gruz 200 on a forklift or ULD loader.
    The A400M does have a ramp at the back for ro-ro, but it has propellers so probably looked too primitive.

    Edit: Also EU origin.
  • Options
    Before Brexit: the US will pick up the slack!
    After Brexit: we never wanted a US trade deal anyway
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814
    SeanT said:

    5.1 Billion people watched the Queen’s Funeral, 63% of the worlds population #queensfuneral #QueenElizabethII #QueenElizabeth


    https://twitter.com/hrh_william_/status/1571909222593593344?s=46&t=1sQGLd8s3PnQyzkPKr2L2w
    This is a monstrous exaggeration (this is a parody account) - but that is quite an astounding display of soft power even so. All those Union flags on The Mall

    That would be impressive, given that only 5.4 billion people on the planet have access to a television. Nearly 19 in 20 of all people, in every country (including those in very different timezones), who could possibly have seen it did see it.

    I think you're right that it's quite an exaggeration
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,620
    edited September 2022

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Britain may not strike a free trade deal with the US for years, Liz Truss has admitted ahead of her first bilateral meeting with Joe Biden.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1572090197948661760

    Good. About time we stopped fetishising “Trade Deals” - not clear why we’d want one with the US in any case. A welcome dose of realism.

    The realism is that she's not going to get a deal. Not about its lack of desirability.
    She's going to get many deals, just probably not with the USA given the USA has been turning against free trade for years now.

    Sensible Brexiteers who believe in free trade have said a lot more about the potential of CPTPP and other potential deals than the USA anyway, in no small part because of this.
    A friend of mine was a customs officer. He was put in charge of a new role looking out for tropical plants and animals. He was given an MBE for services to wildlife. He hated the job.

    Edit whoops attached to wrong post.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Your last paragraph is hilarious. 'Sheeple' and 'luddism' indeed. Perhaps instead there's also a certain amount of realism that for many working-class people WfH is an impossibility.
    They were deliberately provocative. Sheeple isn't an insult to the individuals doing a commute to a fixed point - its an observation of behaviour. Our society literally herds people like sheep into city centres to do the same tasks the same way then back out again of an evening. People are largely unthinking about this - like sheep being herded - because it is just what people are expected to do.

    Or they were, until Covid accelerated societal change by 10 years in a few months. Suddenly so many of these white collar jobs can be largely done from anywhere. None of it using new technology, simply adopting tech which had emerged in the years leading to Covid. We can now do most of these jobs anywhere with all the benefits that brings. Opposing this new reality is luddism - instead of throwing clogs into the machinery, our government leave "go back to your desk" instructions. Same effect.

    As for blue collar jobs, they largely must be done at a location. And whilst that is in long-term decline thanks to automation, it will not go away. So we need to ensure high quality and affordable housing is available. Which we utterly fail at currently.
    Oh come off it: "sheeple" is absolutely an insult - and coming from a lefty who has flexibility in where he works.

    Here's a question that I have no answer to, but would be interesting to see approximate guesstimates at: what proportion of jobs could be done at home full-time (aside from (say) weekly get-together meetings? 25%? 50%? 75%?

    Covid figures are not necessarily a good approximate, as much economic activity was paused at that time. One construction project in our village was paused for over six months, half-complete.
    Having spent 3 years of my life as an obedient sheeple I don't see it as an insult. It is people herded like sheep for the advancement of the people doing the herding.

    And "full time" is a BR-esque straw man. All hybrid jobs will involve some office working - team meetings, process meetings etc where the face to face interaction is needed. What has changed is that many of these can be done remotely by routine and face to face by exception, and other tasks can be done anywhere.
    I can't recall having seen 'sheeple' not used as an insult. It drips off the tongues of people who think they're different and *above* the hordes. It's hilarious to see you use it.

    Again, your example is a very middle-class one. Any job that requires equipment that cannot be provided in the home - e.g. machinists - will not be able to be done from home. Or a vast range of other jobs - many of which provide you with the capability of WfH.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Work from home is entirely a matter for employers and employees, isn't it? if employers do not want to offer it, employees will either accept that or look elsewhere.

    And vice versa. We’re hiring people that are fed up with 100% remote. If you’re single, it’s lonely.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,142
    Jonathan said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.
    Although someone has teed the ball up for Trump, he has smashed it down the fairway and his fans are applauding.

    It wasn't a good look for Biden. Although he took his seat with good grace.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://aviationsourcenews.com/analysis/why-was-the-c17-globemaster-used-to-transport-the-queens-coffin-back-to-london/

    Why they used the plane they did to bring HMQ to Northolt. Including a great comment from her.

    They could also have used A330MRTT or A400M. I suspect they used C-17 because it's very big and impressive looking and does not necessitate the indignity of putting the Gruz 200 on a forklift or ULD loader.
    The A400M does have a ramp at the back for ro-ro, but it has propellers so probably looked too primitive.

    Edit: Also EU origin.
    Should have used a trebuchet.
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    Work from home is entirely a matter for employers and employees, isn't it? if employers do not want to offer it, employees will either accept that or look elsewhere.

    And vice versa. We’re hiring people that are fed up with 100% remote. If you’re single, it’s lonely.

    Yep - we offer hybrid as an option for a number of roles (not for sales), but a lot of the younger staff members like to be in the office.

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,674

    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://aviationsourcenews.com/analysis/why-was-the-c17-globemaster-used-to-transport-the-queens-coffin-back-to-london/

    Why they used the plane they did to bring HMQ to Northolt. Including a great comment from her.

    They could also have used A330MRTT or A400M. I suspect they used C-17 because it's very big and impressive looking and does not necessitate the indignity of putting the Gruz 200 on a forklift or ULD loader.
    The A400M does have a ramp at the back for ro-ro, but it has propellers so probably looked too primitive.

    Edit: Also EU origin.
    Should have used a trebuchet.
    Not trying to deny the efficiency of turboprops, of course: just thinking of the general look to the uninformed!
  • Options

    Work from home is entirely a matter for employers and employees, isn't it? if employers do not want to offer it, employees will either accept that or look elsewhere.

    Yes. It will work brilliantly for some businesses and poorly for others. The variable factor that's hard to map is the quality of managers. If an individual manager is a micro-managing tyrant then there will be no flexibility. If they trust the teams they have built there can be a lot of flexibility.

    Ultimately this should be win-win. Companies can have smaller offices with smaller overhead costs, with their employees happy to pick up a slightly higher energy bill by spending less time and money commuting. Government need provide less infrastructure around transporting people to and fro, which frees up cash for other needs.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Jonathan said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.
    Although someone has teed the ball up for Trump, he has smashed it down the fairway and his fans are applauding.

    It wasn't a good look for Biden. Although he took his seat with good grace.
    Sure. I spotted the risk on the day. It was bad optics to make POTUS wait. It was avoidable. Truss could have greeted him. But nonetheless it’s depressingly predictable that Trump is low enough to make political capital out of a damn funeral. They need to get rid somehow.
  • Options

    https://aviationsourcenews.com/analysis/why-was-the-c17-globemaster-used-to-transport-the-queens-coffin-back-to-london/

    Why they used the plane they did to bring HMQ to Northolt. Including a great comment from her.

    the C17 was quieter and was, sadly, very familiar with the repatriation role from undertaking the repatriation of service personnel who had died in Afghanistan”.

    “A dress rehearsal at RAF Northolt provided that it would work, but the impact of changing from a smart-looking business jet to a more utilitarian C17 was fairly significant, and so approval from the Palace for the change to our plans was sought.”

    “The response that came back from HM The Queen was: ‘If it’s good enough for my boys, then it’s good enough for me”.
  • Options

    Before Brexit: the US will pick up the slack!
    After Brexit: we never wanted a US trade deal anyway

    Thoughts and prayers with Dan Hannan today. From 2018


  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    The only way Trump would have been given a seat at the front is if he'd been a ritual sacrifice to be buried with the Queen.

    And I'm thinking she would have refused his company for all eternity. Even worse than Witchell.
    Nicholas Witchell was(is?) a strange one. Is he not still Royal Correspondent for the BBC? Yet that cannot be his only gainful employment as he is hardly ever on it. Did he retire?
    I think I heard him referred to as former royal correspondent, so presumably he participated in a kind of emeritus role yesterday? I thought he did an alright job, this was the gig he has been preparing for all his life and his normally gratingly obsequious tone hit the right note for once.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,674
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.
    Although someone has teed the ball up for Trump, he has smashed it down the fairway and his fans are applauding.

    It wasn't a good look for Biden. Although he took his seat with good grace.
    Sure. I spotted the risk on the day. It was bad optics to make POTUS wait. It was avoidable. Truss could have greeted him. But nonetheless it’s depressingly predictable that Trump is low enough to make political capital out of a damn funeral. They need to get rid somehow.
    OTOH bad optics to give the Prez special treatment - or rather, even more special treatment, in such a visible and disruptive way. He (or his staff) had already insisted on driving around in his APC-lite, very publicly, hence the delay in the first place.
  • Options

    Before Brexit: the US will pick up the slack!
    After Brexit: we never wanted a US trade deal anyway

    Thoughts and prayers with Dan Hannan today. From 2018


    My prayer for Dan Hannan isn't printable. All I can say is that he'd better hope that God is not a wrathful God.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,674

    Before Brexit: the US will pick up the slack!
    After Brexit: we never wanted a US trade deal anyway

    Thoughts and prayers with Dan Hannan today. From 2018


    Many thanks - I was almost wondering if my memory was wrong, the insistence on here that we never wanted one, oh no dear me.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Your last paragraph is hilarious. 'Sheeple' and 'luddism' indeed. Perhaps instead there's also a certain amount of realism that for many working-class people WfH is an impossibility.
    They were deliberately provocative. Sheeple isn't an insult to the individuals doing a commute to a fixed point - its an observation of behaviour. Our society literally herds people like sheep into city centres to do the same tasks the same way then back out again of an evening. People are largely unthinking about this - like sheep being herded - because it is just what people are expected to do.

    Or they were, until Covid accelerated societal change by 10 years in a few months. Suddenly so many of these white collar jobs can be largely done from anywhere. None of it using new technology, simply adopting tech which had emerged in the years leading to Covid. We can now do most of these jobs anywhere with all the benefits that brings. Opposing this new reality is luddism - instead of throwing clogs into the machinery, our government leave "go back to your desk" instructions. Same effect.

    As for blue collar jobs, they largely must be done at a location. And whilst that is in long-term decline thanks to automation, it will not go away. So we need to ensure high quality and affordable housing is available. Which we utterly fail at currently.
    Oh come off it: "sheeple" is absolutely an insult - and coming from a lefty who has flexibility in where he works.

    Here's a question that I have no answer to, but would be interesting to see approximate guesstimates at: what proportion of jobs could be done at home full-time (aside from (say) weekly get-together meetings? 25%? 50%? 75%?

    Covid figures are not necessarily a good approximate, as much economic activity was paused at that time. One construction project in our village was paused for over six months, half-complete.
    Having spent 3 years of my life as an obedient sheeple I don't see it as an insult. It is people herded like sheep for the advancement of the people doing the herding.

    And "full time" is a BR-esque straw man. All hybrid jobs will involve some office working - team meetings, process meetings etc where the face to face interaction is needed. What has changed is that many of these can be done remotely by routine and face to face by exception, and other tasks can be done anywhere.
    I can't recall having seen 'sheeple' not used as an insult. It drips off the tongues of people who think they're different and *above* the hordes. It's hilarious to see you use it.

    Again, your example is a very middle-class one. Any job that requires equipment that cannot be provided in the home - e.g. machinists - will not be able to be done from home. Or a vast range of other jobs - many of which provide you with the capability of WfH.
    Its an insult to myself then as I have said I was - and considered at the time - that we were all being herded. And I've already made the white collar / blue collar distinction. Here's the thing though - two big questions that need to really be considered before you just dismiss the hybrid (not WFH) working revolution.

    One - not all jobs can be done on a hybrid basis. Should we therefore ban / block hybrid working for jobs where it can be done because it is "unfair" on the people who can't benefit? Does sound like luddism.

    Two - the threat to blue collar jobs from multiple sources remains. We made political choices in the 1980s to stop protecting industry from market forces and have seen large chunks of it shut down. That process is ongoing as more jobs can be automated and run remotely - same "threat" as hybrid working - in a cheaper location. Retail and hospitality jobs increasingly automated. Even in-person health services get replaced by remote phone numbers. So this is happening whether you like it or not.

    The political question is whether we accept this and shape it to benefit society, or stand against it and have harsher effects devastate chunks of our society. Again.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,183

    Before Brexit: the US will pick up the slack!
    After Brexit: we never wanted a US trade deal anyway

    Thoughts and prayers with Dan Hannan today. From 2018


    It's a good job he never made any other mistakes, like saying 'nobody is suggesting we would leave the single market.'

    A shame, because when he's in full flow (as against Brown) he is quite impressive.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    Alistair said:

    On the topic of next president I know there's been a queen's funeral and all on that has been a bit distracting but have people been paying attention to PB-favourite Ron DeSantis's "hilarious" PR stunt where he organised the kidnapping of 48 people and transported them across state lines?

    I'm sure this is playing well with the MAGA base but the story is not necessarily developing to his (or Greg Abbot's) advantage.

    The use of funds very probably illegal.

    Doubts rise over whether DeSantis had budget authority to fly migrants
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/19/desantis-immigrants-marthas-vineyard-venezuela-00057673
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,183
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.
    Although someone has teed the ball up for Trump, he has smashed it down the fairway and his fans are applauding.

    It wasn't a good look for Biden. Although he took his seat with good grace.
    Sure. I spotted the risk on the day. It was bad optics to make POTUS wait. It was avoidable. Truss could have greeted him. But nonetheless it’s depressingly predictable that Trump is low enough to make political capital out of a damn funeral. They need to get rid somehow.
    Does @Dura_Ace undertake - ahem - contract work with his trusty Ruger 10/22?
  • Options

    Jonathan said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.
    Although someone has teed the ball up for Trump, he has smashed it down the fairway and his fans are applauding.

    It wasn't a good look for Biden. Although he took his seat with good grace.
    Technically, Trump could have been correct - (but not for the right reason) depending on when HMQEII died. If she’d died towards the end of Trump’s term he’d have been a longer serving head of state than Biden is currently so would probably have been slightly nearer the front (but still behind other royalty & the Commonwealth leaders). Biden’s seating position was simply down to how long he had been in office and had nothing to do with Liz Truss. As to being “made to wait” he was a guest who had been told to arrive by 09.55. Everyone else managed it - because they came on the buses. Biden arrived at 10.07 because the US insisted he use his own transport and didn’t factor enough time into their planning. That’s with them and only them.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    Labour respond:

    “There is no doubt that the blame for this mess lies at the door of the PM…This is an embarrassment for Liz Truss.
    The Conservative manifesto promised a trade deal with the United States by the end of this year, now this has no chance of being delivered.”

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1572132285863919617
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,566
    If Biden doesn't run, will it most likely be Kamala Harris?
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540
    edited September 2022
    Good to see PB returning to normal. The seamless pivot late last night from the death of the monarch to the price of houses was particularly impressive.
    This morning we've had a smattering of Brexit; not much on the weather yet.
    I look forward to the return of discussion of Gordon Brown's financial rectitude (or lack of it) in due course. Welcome back, PB.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    ydoethur said:

    It's a good job he never made any other mistakes, like saying 'nobody is suggesting we would leave the single market.'

    A shame, because when he's in full flow (as against Brown) he is quite impressive.

    I have friends in the US (Trump voters) who think Hannan is a genius and Brexit is brilliant
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,887
    Fullbrook was a formal subject in an FBI investigation into alleged crimes that “struck a blow” to democracy.

    He’s since signed a proffer agreement with the DOJ and is cooperating with the US law enforcement as a witness.


    Full story here:
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-10-chief-of-staff-in-fbi-inquiry-over-election-bribe-in-puerto-rico-rrlrtzkjk
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541

    Before Brexit: the US will pick up the slack!
    After Brexit: we never wanted a US trade deal anyway

    Thoughts and prayers with Dan Hannan today. From 2018


    It's entirely appropriate that picture of him makes him look about 12 years old.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,566
    Big mistake by conservatives to start cancelling books.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,964
    Andy_JS said:

    If Biden doesn't run, will it most likely be Kamala Harris?

    The default replacement option of Kamala Harris is probably the reason why people are looking at Biden running again. Harris definitely isn't in a position to succeed if Trump is the opposition...
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour respond:

    “There is no doubt that the blame for this mess lies at the door of the PM…This is an embarrassment for Liz Truss.
    The Conservative manifesto promised a trade deal with the United States by the end of this year, now this has no chance of being delivered.”

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1572132285863919617

    Which is funny because Labour would have been the biggest opponents of a U.S. trade deal “animal standards, frankenfoods, hormones etc.” - but all’s fair in love, war & politics!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,362
    darkage said:

    RobD said:

    darkage said:

    https://asunnot.oikotie.fi/myytavat-asunnot/humppila/16251802

    This is another house in Finland.
    200 sqm, built in the 1980's and extended in 2002.
    Surveyors report says it is in good condition.
    Includes an external sauna and a swimming pool.
    Half an acre plot on the edge of town.
    The starting price is 98,000 Euros.

    Looks to be in the middle of nowhere on that map. What's an equivalent place in the UK?
    Its in Humppila, a village with a railway station and a glass factory, and a heritage railway, about 2 hours from Helsinki. There is no comparison in the UK. The point is how cheap property can get where there is unlimited land for development.

    There was a nice looking house up for sale today in another part of Finland with an orchard. It had, for some technical reason, been written off by the surveyor and sold as land. 16,000 Euros was the asking price.


    A few years back, I nearly bought a property in Marden, Kent.

    It came with the option to buy some farmland as a package - at £6800 an acre.

    Marden is an hour from Cannon Street/Charing Cross stations in London.

    A property there can easily hit 7 figures - smaller would be mid to high 6 figures.
  • Options
    There is not going to be a US-UK trade deal. Reminder, there was never going to be such an overarching trade deal. It would, on agriculture and food, never get past the Mail, Guardian, R4, One Show, Countryfile, Telegraph, the House of Commons, the Lords, the British electorate.

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1572124323787468802
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour respond:

    “There is no doubt that the blame for this mess lies at the door of the PM…This is an embarrassment for Liz Truss.
    The Conservative manifesto promised a trade deal with the United States by the end of this year, now this has no chance of being delivered.”

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1572132285863919617

    Which is funny because Labour would have been the biggest opponents of a U.S. trade deal “animal standards, frankenfoods, hormones etc.” - but all’s fair in love, war & politics!
    The opposition criticises the government for failing to deliver a key policy, even though it doesn't agree with that policy in the first place. A disgrace, I tell you.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,183

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour respond:

    “There is no doubt that the blame for this mess lies at the door of the PM…This is an embarrassment for Liz Truss.
    The Conservative manifesto promised a trade deal with the United States by the end of this year, now this has no chance of being delivered.”

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1572132285863919617

    Which is funny because Labour would have been the biggest opponents of a U.S. trade deal “animal standards, frankenfoods, hormones etc.” - but all’s fair in love, war & politics!
    Whether they would have approved or not, the fact is it's a broken promised and a failed programme. That's what Labour have been emphasising and this gives them more ammunition to say the government is in chaos.

    Yes, it's hypocritical. Just as it was for Brown to criticise the Major government over Black Wednesday when if he had done what he said was needed things would have been worse. Or for Cameron to criticise Brown for the regulatory failures and over borrowing that led to the banking collapses when he'd been arguing for lower taxes and lighter regulation.

    But it doesn't matter. It's the government's record that ultimately matters. Remember, governments lose elections rather than oppositions win them.

    And this government are a right bunch of losers.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,142
    ...

    Jonathan said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.
    Although someone has teed the ball up for Trump, he has smashed it down the fairway and his fans are applauding.

    It wasn't a good look for Biden. Although he took his seat with good grace.
    Technically, Trump could have been correct - (but not for the right reason) depending on when HMQEII died. If she’d died towards the end of Trump’s term he’d have been a longer serving head of state than Biden is currently so would probably have been slightly nearer the front (but still behind other royalty & the Commonwealth leaders). Biden’s seating position was simply down to how long he had been in office and had nothing to do with Liz Truss. As to being “made to wait” he was a guest who had been told to arrive by 09.55. Everyone else managed it - because they came on the buses. Biden arrived at 10.07 because the US insisted he use his own transport and didn’t factor enough time into their planning. That’s with them and only them.
    Thank you for clearing that up. I was not aware of that protocol.

    Nonetheless Trump can happily paint Row 14 as a snub, because that is what it looks like.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.
    Although someone has teed the ball up for Trump, he has smashed it down the fairway and his fans are applauding.

    It wasn't a good look for Biden. Although he took his seat with good grace.
    Sure. I spotted the risk on the day. It was bad optics to make POTUS wait. It was avoidable. Truss could have greeted him. But nonetheless it’s depressingly predictable that Trump is low enough to make political capital out of a damn funeral. They need to get rid somehow.
    Does @Dura_Ace undertake - ahem - contract work with his trusty Ruger 10/22?
    Can still do 3.5 MOA at 200m. 🎯💀
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,003
    I've reflected overnight - not all young people have the crazy expectation that they all get to live in the top 5% of desirable areas, and rule out the rest even if they are more in line with their incomes. But the loudest ones on social media all do.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,183
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.
    Although someone has teed the ball up for Trump, he has smashed it down the fairway and his fans are applauding.

    It wasn't a good look for Biden. Although he took his seat with good grace.
    Sure. I spotted the risk on the day. It was bad optics to make POTUS wait. It was avoidable. Truss could have greeted him. But nonetheless it’s depressingly predictable that Trump is low enough to make political capital out of a damn funeral. They need to get rid somehow.
    Does @Dura_Ace undertake - ahem - contract work with his trusty Ruger 10/22?
    Can still do 3.5 MOA at 200m. 🎯💀
    What about a very outsize MAGA?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,142
    edited September 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour respond:

    “There is no doubt that the blame for this mess lies at the door of the PM…This is an embarrassment for Liz Truss.
    The Conservative manifesto promised a trade deal with the United States by the end of this year, now this has no chance of being delivered.”

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1572132285863919617

    Which is funny because Labour would have been the biggest opponents of a U.S. trade deal “animal standards, frankenfoods, hormones etc.” - but all’s fair in love, war & politics!
    Haven't you completely missed the wider point here?

    Had Ed Miliband and Labour won the 2015 GE we wouldn't now be needing a unilateral trade deal with the US.
  • Options
    Unpopular said:

    On topic, I don't know if Biden will run again. I, like many, assumed he'd be there for a term and then not seek the nomination, having saved the Republic from Trump. Now I'm not so sure (on either account, since Trump just won't flush).

    However, regardless of what Biden eventually does, I think he has to act like he will run again. History is full of examples of lame ducks, on both sides of the Atlantic. LBJ chose not to seek renomination and spent the last bit of his term unable to do anything. Blair and Cameron both tried to get out at a time of their choosing and it rather backfired. If he wants the authority to do anything, Biden needs to pretend that he will run again.

    Cameron could have stayed on - he just didn't have the cojones.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994
    Jonathan said:



    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.

    Yeah, Trump would be fucking mortified if anyone thought he was being disrespectful.
  • Options
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Biden doesn't run, will it most likely be Kamala Harris?

    The default replacement option of Kamala Harris is probably the reason why people are looking at Biden running again. Harris definitely isn't in a position to succeed if Trump is the opposition...
    Totally agree.

    We may well see Biden running because he sees no other option that has a chance against Trump.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour respond:

    “There is no doubt that the blame for this mess lies at the door of the PM…This is an embarrassment for Liz Truss.
    The Conservative manifesto promised a trade deal with the United States by the end of this year, now this has no chance of being delivered.”

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1572132285863919617

    Labour said a trade deal with a Trump led US would be a disaster, now no trade deal with a Biden led US is a disaster too. I doubt our farmers will be complaining
  • Options
    The USA is our largest single trading partner and we usually sell them more than they sell us without a comprehensive trade deal. No need to worry if President Biden doesn't want to change the current arrangements. We both are full members of WTO which works.

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1572103338958950400
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    edited September 2022
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If Biden doesn't run, will it most likely be Kamala Harris?

    The default replacement option of Kamala Harris is probably the reason why people are looking at Biden running again. Harris definitely isn't in a position to succeed if Trump is the opposition...
    16.0 on Harris at Smarkets is a nice price. I think she's a shoo in if Biden decides not to run (With the greatest of respect to Pete Buttigieg) as the party faithful won't rally against a sitting VP.
    The implied odds are also a bit long in the general.
    I'm long Biden generally so it's a bit of insurance.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited September 2022
    The flags back to full mast and the online front pages shift back to usual bits n pieces of rubbish already 🤷‍♀️ Is that the que for proper PBer on PBer action again?

    I’ll kick it off. Liz Truss at the funeral. She didn’t say much, but she delivered it in proper common Yorkshire like I would sound like. SO NOWT WRONG WITH THAT 😌
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour respond:

    “There is no doubt that the blame for this mess lies at the door of the PM…This is an embarrassment for Liz Truss.
    The Conservative manifesto promised a trade deal with the United States by the end of this year, now this has no chance of being delivered.”

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1572132285863919617

    Which is funny because Labour would have been the biggest opponents of a U.S. trade deal “animal standards, frankenfoods, hormones etc.” - but all’s fair in love, war & politics!
    Whether they would have approved or not, the fact is it's a broken promised and a failed programme. That's what Labour have been emphasising and this gives them more ammunition to say the government is in chaos.

    Yes, it's hypocritical. Just as it was for Brown to criticise the Major government over Black Wednesday when if he had done what he said was needed things would have been worse. Or for Cameron to criticise Brown for the regulatory failures and over borrowing that led to the banking collapses when he'd been arguing for lower taxes and lighter regulation.

    But it doesn't matter. It's the government's record that ultimately matters. Remember, governments lose elections rather than oppositions win them.

    And this government are a right bunch of losers.
    I don’t dispute Labour’s right to make hay with it - what I welcome is the refreshing dose of realism.
  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:



    How depressingly predictable. Someone might like to signal disapproval to Trump that it is disrespectful to make political hay out of HM funeral and if he carries on down his current path he would be staying at home with Putin.

    Yeah, Trump would be fucking mortified if anyone thought he was being disrespectful.
    He’d have probably pushed his way through the VCs & George Cross holders, tipping over the chap in the wheelchair….
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,183
    This thread has

    been plonked in row 14

  • Options

    Sort of on topic.

    Trump "truths" how Biden and the USA was humiliated in Row 14 at Westminster Abbey, and how he, Trump would have been at the forefront.

    Spectacular trolling by Team Truss or an embarrassing cock-up by organisers.

    Trump wants the USA to join the Cpmmonwealth?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,362
    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    This would never work because houses can't be built for £50,000. The cheapest they can possibly be built and sold for is £200,000 each under current build costs. The only way houses could be £50,000 is if there is a massive collapse in demand - as is already the case in some parts of the north of England where houses can be bought for £50k in the current market.

    If land was free, and builders were mass producing cookie cutter designs, would houses really cost £200k to build?
    A major cost in building a house is the labour.

    This then causes people who don't do analysis to invest in 3D printing concrete walls and the like. This is silly.

    The issue isn't the cost of making walls. Walls are quick, simple and cheap - concrete blocks. You can even get spacers, so that the people laying the concrete blocks are muppets (not recommended). Insulation comes in boards, these days.

    You can throw up an empty shell, crane some pre made roof trusses on and tile it, in a couple of days, if you have the foundation slab ready.

    The real cost and time is in the plumbing, electrics etc. This is labour intensive.

    Labour costs are (of course) a function of housing costs, reasonably locally. The plumber has to live somewhere.

    If houses prices fell, the cost of labour would go down. Though it might be slow - wages are very sticky in the downward direction, except over longer periods of time.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Britain may not strike a free trade deal with the US for years, Liz Truss has admitted ahead of her first bilateral meeting with Joe Biden.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1572090197948661760

    Good. About time we stopped fetishising “Trade Deals” - not clear why we’d want one with the US in any case. A welcome dose of realism.

    The realism is that she's not going to get a deal. Not about its lack of desirability.
    It's certainly a remarkable change of tune from Ms Truss after the last, what is it, 5-6 years. Could be very damaging for her with the Party.
    Is it?

    There's a difference between talking about the likelihood of trade deals in general, or with the USA in particular.

    Liam Fox as Trade Secretary didn't bother signing the trade deals that Liz Truss made, or those she got started working on which are coming down the tracks, but instead spent years banging on about a trade deal with the USA.

    One reason I respect her a lot is she's been working on free trade deals and has made a lot of noise about potential trade deals with the CPTPP and others. She's not been talking about a trade deal with the USA.

    The reality is that no trade deal is getting through the US Senate anyway. Its not happening, but free trade is good and there's many alternatives to America.

    For different reasons, the world's two biggest economic areas are now off the table; and the government is actively preparing to bin the one we have with the third biggest.

    If we join the CPTPP then that will be a bigger economic area than the EU itself which would be fourth not third, plus of course we still have a free trade deal with the EU too on top of that.
  • Options
    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    Stereodog said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see any reason why the government shouldn't engage in a massive housebuilding program to drive the average house value below £50,000 - the long term benefits of not having enormous amounts of wealth and effort tied up in an artificially inflated housing markets massively outweigh the short term discomfort.

    As I discovered the other week, Greater (ie commutable) New York is more densely populated than Greater (commutable) London, but - outside Manhattan - prices are considerably cheaper.

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.
    The US has far more land than the UK and is also far less densely populated overall.

    In New York City most rent as most in London now rent, outside London UK average house prices are now even slightly lower than in the US, $407,600
    there, £281,261 here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-house-price-index-for-april-2022#:~:text=on average, house prices have,UK valued at £281,161

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/21/us-home-average-price-record-high-may
    You are comparing apples with wombats, as usual.

    The USA has far more land
    Commutable New York does not.
    Funny how the places people want to live end up with not enough land.

    In a society with free movement, it seems to be hard to solve housing costs in desirable areas by building tons of houses in other areas.
    Indeed, if you want to buy a home in the UK before 30 on an average income move to Bolton or Stoke or County Durham not London. If you want to buy a house in the US before 30 on an average income move to Arkansas or West Virginia or Ohio not New York city
    Young people in London don't want to move to Bolton because it means sacrificing their careers, social lives, and local family support structures.

    The rational solution is just to build houses and flats where people actually want to live and thus make buying a house there affordable.
    I grew up in Rochdale, which is just as hellish as Bolton. But need not be. The solution to people like me heading to London to find work is have an economy which allows jobs in Rochdale.

    WFH is that opportunity. Level up the ability of people to do well paid jobs rom the comfort of wherever they like, without all the faff and expense of buying/renting a shoebox for £stupid and having to spend £morestupid wedged onto a train to an office.

    As this threatens Tory interests - value of shoebox flats, value of office buildings, value of shit coffee emporiums, ability to impose drudgery on the working sheeple - they are increasingly against it. Despite the obvious benefits. And in this post-covid world I honestly believe this social luddism will be one of the factors that drags them out of office.
    Your last paragraph is hilarious. 'Sheeple' and 'luddism' indeed. Perhaps instead there's also a certain amount of realism that for many working-class people WfH is an impossibility.
    For those employees a decent employer could introduce other perks, flexible working or compressed hours for example. It’s lazy and disingenuous not to allow some staff benefits just because not everyone can have them. If you’re going to make that argument at least follow the logic and advocate that the CEO has the same employment terms as the janitor or the receptionist.
    Sometimes I get the impression this site is *far* too middle-class, with even the "up the workers!" lefties having f-all idea about the working class. Vast tranches of workers cannot work from home - from supermarket workers to builders. And lots of 'office' workers cannot realistically work from home either, especially if they interact with the public.

    I'm all for flexible working hours - but even then there are large numbers of jobs where that is not applicable.
    True, though those jobs are fairly well dispersed round the country anyway.

    One of the UK's problems is that our prosperity depends too much on highly-paid jobs that are tied to being in London. WFH might allow those to be done in other places, which can do a lot for levelling up.

    And yes, it's unfair, but that unfairness is there already. Have you seen what these people get in pay and perks?
    "Might allow"

    Yeah, might. For vast tranches of jobs, it does not. Before Covid, Mrs J was working from home one day a week. She worked from home five days a week during Covid, but has gone back to the office for three days a week.

    Why? Because even though it's mostly a sit-at-a-desk-and-design job, there is some lab work that needs to be done, and that is *highly* inefficient when done through third parties in the lab (it is far easier to just go down to the lab and diy).

    In addition, WfH stopped a certain amount of team dynamics: decisions always seemed to take longer when down over Skype/Teams etc.

    Also, she can just walk across the office and collar someone about a problem, rather than email them and hope they're available to Sype. Then there's the sociability aspects as well.

    So the WfH revolution has seen her change her habits from working from home one day a week to two days a week. And if it wasn't such a long commute, she probably would not WfH at all...
    Oh, it certainly does allow for enough jobs to cause problems. My lovely seaside resort town now has a property market that is a total nightmare because it's flooded with people who want to WFH for a London company that pays London salaries and they maybe need to go up to London a couple of times a month.
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814

    pm215 said:

    The UK simply doesn’t build enough houses to meet demand.

    The entire planning system is a disaster that encourages land hoarding and cookie-cutter developments by a oligopoly of builders.

    It is probably the #1 problem holding the UK back.

    Right. This is one of those areas where I think we should just start doing something on a big scale and see how much benefit we can get from that. When we've made a decent dent in the "way too little supply" problem we can look at whether there is still anything that other policy fixes might help with, but we should start with the blindingly obvious part first. (No strong view on the best way in particular to increase supply, though as you note planning overhaul is probably part of it.)
    Planning overhaul is the never ending cry of the developer. All the while they are sitting on plots with permission for hundreds of thousands of houses and not developing them. Start charging them council tax on the plots 9 months or a year after planning permission has been granted and watch how quickly they are ready to start building on them.
    Land Value Tax on the value of land plus permissions.

    So land without permissions is much less than land with permissions. If you've got permission to build, you've got the value in the land, so that's what you should be taxed on. Also encourages development (the only tax available with a negative tax wedge)
This discussion has been closed.