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YouGov finds that just 40% of the youngest voters support the monarchy. – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    With all due respect, this is ludicrous

    Any political institution in the world would kill every kitten in the catteries of Kilburn to get these figures of support

    I thought the young weren’t meant to care about this old crone yet 63% of them report being at least a little upset

    in the age range 25-49 53% support the monarchy and only 27% oppose - so that’s 2 to 1. And the figures get, of course, much higher as you go up the ages

    Unless Charles actually stabs his own children with one of those leaky pens we are decades from the monarchy being remotely imperilled

    The monarchy can never afford to be complacent. But it is often implied (or outright stated) that 'the end is near' based off what is at worst lukewarm feelings from the young, or ethnic minorities.

    The monarchy can handle things getting lukewarm. It's people being strongly against that would be an issue.

    That's why its if there is a clash between crown and Tory government that problems would come.
    Indeed

    And these figures must be seen in context. One of the Late Queen’s sons, Prince Andrew, has been exposed as (allegedly?) a horrible pedophile, a predatory monster who has to pay off his victims. He is such a scandal he has to be hidden away until it is unavoidable that he is seen, then he is hidden away again

    He narrowly avoided a rape trial in New York

    Meanwhile a beautiful black woman who married into the family is claiming they are all racist

    It’s about as bad as it gets. It is hard to envisage a worse context for the Royal Family, within the realms of the Likely. I guess Prince William could join the Wagner group and be seen shooting Ukrainian ballet dancers? Apart from that any deeper scandal strikes me as highly improbable

    And still the monarchy has rock solid support. Two to one or more. It isn’t going anywhere



    Can you be exposed as an alleged pedophile?
    If Andrew dropped his trousers, he would be exposed and an alleged paedophile.

    Would that cover it?

    Or rather, uncover it?
    Has he been accused of paedophilia? As I understand it, the ladies in question have all been legal, under UK law.
    The allegations extend to America, where they weren't.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited September 2022

    Carnyx said:

    pm215 said:

    On the topic of the stats in the header, I'm slightly surprised that over a quarter of people have seen the Queen in person. I would have guessed lower, maybe 10 or 15%...

    38% of 2019 Tory voters having seen the Queen in person seems extraordinary. I suspect some think that a postage stamp counts as 'in person'.
    Old farts. So more chances. Esp. if keen. Hell, I've seen her Maj three times that I can think of offhand (school; dad got a garden party invite with the rations; and work, which got me a handshake from her consort, who as I have noted here before had an argument with my colleague).
    I mean i've 'seen' her in that she was driven past during the silver jubilee and i waved.
    I'm more excited by the slebs in my 'randomly got pissed with' collection, and im not that excited by them, more by the being pissed
    My no. 1 was definitely on those lines, so maybe scratch it as you say (HM was visiting the Royal Observatory c. 1963 and we were taken to decorate the side of the road and be inculcated etc). Still, odd to think I'm two up and better than three-fifths of Tory voters. Extraordinary. Lazy sods, CBA to get out and vote, er sorry, show their devotion.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    FPT

    kyf_100 said:

    Aye..


    One of the things that has really hit home for me the last week, is just how much the UK is a two-tier system - plebs and patricians. It is that binary. A lot of ink has been spilled since the financial crisis about the 1%, the vanishing middle class and so on, but there is altogether something different at work in Britain.

    I think societies work best when there is a degree of social mobility for all. The "football pyramid" model of society if you like. But what we actually have is a super league to which the likes of 99% of us will never be invited.

    The ossification of our society and class system is exactly what makes the UK such a popular place for the elites of other countries to launder their ill gotten gains. They know it's safe from revolution and regime change here. And the last week has been a fantastic ad for that...
    Also look at the school system - not just the segregation into private and state, but how property prices go up near the "better" state schools because no-one who's got any money wants their brats mixing with riffraff and filth. It's not like that in say Scandinavia.

    If there were really such a thing as hereditary difference in ability (which there isn't), they wouldn't need segregated schools or for that matter the personal inheritance of wealth either. They'd get to the top because of how clever they were. The British ruling class know deep down that it's they who are dirt, dishonest thicko thieving dirt. That's why they "think" everyone else is, and recognise each other as "proper" by means of such a shared belief.

    Even on here, you get some of them doing things like boasting how much they've spent on meals. I mean, seriously, how much more common as muck can you get than telling everyone how much you've paid for something?
    It is highly useful info, especially when it is usually look how *little* this meal costs.

    It's the footwear where it becomes wearisome; loose talk about £6,000 a pair polo boots and so on. repulsive.
    Getting them for £50? on ebay is good tho' :)

    Being sincere for once.

    Coup of a lifetime.
    Only really a bargain if you have some polo ponies already.
    I do. OTOH I am left handed and useless at ball games, and they are black polo boots which would get you sent home from most clubs, worse faux pas than brown shoes with a city suit.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited September 2022
    This poll is probably going to be a big disappointment to republicans. 29% of young people opposed to the monarchy - despite the Prince Andrew and Meghan Markle controversies? I would expect the figure to be higher. It is actually a bit worrying because in a democracy you need a debate on the subject, to avoid complacency setting in; which is a probably a greater danger than opposition.

    The indifference towards monarchy and hereditary rule suggests that maybe young people aren't actually all that 'woke' after all, it is just a small and disproportionately vocal minority.

    edit - i see others have made the same point.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    darkage said:

    This poll is probably going to be a big disappointment to republicans. 29% of young people opposed to the monarchy - despite the Prince Andrew and Meghan Markle controversies? I would expect the figure to be higher. It is actually a bit worrying because in a democracy you need a debate on the subject, to avoid complacency setting in; which is a probably a greater danger than opposition.

    The indifference towards monarchy and hereditary rule suggests that maybe young people aren't actually all that 'woke' after all, it is just a small and disproportionately vocal minority.

    I'd like to see the same poll in a year or so. ATM it's wall to wall royalist stuff (which can work in either direction, or indeed both at once).
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting at the marble counter top of a brilliant tapas bar in Seville eating yet another superb lunch while guzzling cold Spanish white and arguing nonsense with PB is one of my new fave things ever, so thanks, guys. Sincerely

    What should I eat next?





    Are you going to Jerez?

    Sadly, no, I fly back tonight

    But Seville is my new FAVE CITY ON EARTH

    It’s got everything. Esp the food & wine but certainly not just the food & wine. The happiness quotient here is phenomenal

    BTW I did some research, I’m not imagining this transformation. The city council has apparently spent 10-15 years doing up the place, pedestrianising the centre, cleaning all the buildings, installing trams and bicycles, the works. Now kids play football in beautiful squares which used to be filthy car parks

    It is genius urbanism. It is also not hard if you have the basic bones of good architecture. Not every city has the cathedrals palaces and sunshine of Seville but most places in Europe can manage some period buildings, Get rid of the fucking cars!
    I was slightly underimpressed, it doesn't have the Moorish architecture of Granada or Cordoba (or even Malaga) but it does have the best craft beer in Andalusia. The unexpected highlight of my trip last year was propping up a sherry bar in Jerez, watching flamenco and drinking sherry from the cask. Malaga old town was unexpectedly nice, the Alhambra as good as I expected, the Mesquita even better, Cadiz small and a bit boring. And Gib is weird.
    Yes Gib is weird. Bleak in places, so brutally military, but it can also be fun

    I won’t hear a word against Seville, I’m drunk in Seville

    Seville has glorious Moorish architecture, it’s just not as well known as the Alhambra

    Malaga is indeed a surprising pleasure. People think of it as an airport but it is so much more. Cadiz is oddly claustrophobic

    I want to go to Huelva. I hear it is ugly and industrial but it is the true, burning heart’s core of the Early Spanish Empire. Where Columbus sailed and prayed. Sanlucar! La Radiba! More sherry!

    Columbus was a dude. The Woke Americans who have cancelled him are idiots
    I did get to Sanlucar, and drank Manzanilla where it is made.
  • Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    murali_s said:

    A hereditary monarchy is obviously not consistent with a vibrant democracy. The question is what do you replace it with?

    Our democracy is pretty vibrant. Betwn Jan 1 2010 and Dec 31 2019 we had 5 democratically elected governments.
    Someone on here was whining on last evening about how they would fight for the Monarchy.

    Would I? If Britain were invaded by a hostile foreign power(s) and I had the means to resist, I would.

    I would fight to defend democracy so I'd have been a Roundhead last time round. Given it's not a very likely scenario, the notion of a future Monarch seeking to impose authoritarian rule on Britain is the sort of thing which would have me opposing the Monarchy.
    Indeed, like both Charles I and II.
    The Marquess of Montrose is my model: stick to my own perhaps contradictory principles pissing off everyone and end up in bits on the Royal Mile.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting at the marble counter top of a brilliant tapas bar in Seville eating yet another superb lunch while guzzling cold Spanish white and arguing nonsense with PB is one of my new fave things ever, so thanks, guys. Sincerely

    What should I eat next?





    Are you going to Jerez?

    Sadly, no, I fly back tonight

    But Seville is my new FAVE CITY ON EARTH

    It’s got everything. Esp the food & wine but certainly not just the food & wine. The happiness quotient here is phenomenal

    BTW I did some research, I’m not imagining this transformation. The city council has apparently spent 10-15 years doing up the place, pedestrianising the centre, cleaning all the buildings, installing trams and bicycles, the works. Now kids play football in beautiful squares which used to be filthy car parks

    It is genius urbanism. It is also not hard if you have the basic bones of good architecture. Not every city has the cathedrals palaces and sunshine of Seville but most places in Europe can manage some period buildings, Get rid of the fucking cars!
    I was impressed at the way the tram line was restricted to overhead charging only at the stops to preserve the views on the Avenue Carlos V. Wish we’d done the same in Edinburgh.

    What did you think of the ‘Parasol’?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    edited September 2022
    Fishing said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Occurs to me the great counter example to all the Abolitions is the greatest monarchy of all: Rome

    From Republic to Empire, and it was as an Empire that it reached its remarkable zenith

    The Roman monarchy was a peculiar affair. They spent three hundred years (until the time of Diocletian) denying that it actually was a monarchy. And, they never really worked out a theory of succession. Sometimes the monarch would inherit from his father. Other times, the monarch would just emerge, from the ranks of the Senate or civil service. Other times, he'd seize power by force.
    Whereas, at least if you follow Bagehot, we have spent a couple of hundred years denying that our country is a republic.
    We are unashamedly ambiguous. This arises out of 1000+ years of tree-like organic growth with moderated revolutions. 1066 is a bit exceptional, but that isn't really recent.

    We have never had a 'Year Nought' moment when someone sat down with a piece of parchment and said 'Here is a Nation Plan'. Oliver Cromwell came nearest, but not near enough, or successful enough, to be the real 'Year Nought' moment.

    A key player in this is Burke. He looked at 1789 and all that and said that it wasn't such a brilliant idea really, and that some sort of mess would arise. He reads like a prophet.

    We had a 1789 moment of sorts in 1688 and after but it was more farce than tragedy, and because people who were early empiricists, Anglicans and wary of Cromwell types were in charge we got what we got. It stuck. As a totality is made no logical sense at all, and it still doesn't. And being who we are we could not care less.

    No-one ever went broke underestimating our national disdain for theory of any description.

    Don't spit on your luck.

    BTW the body deciding that Charles is King is Parliament, who have so legislated. So there.

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
  • MattW said:

    murali_s said:

    A hereditary monarchy is obviously not consistent with a vibrant democracy. The question is what do you replace it with?

    Experience of actual democracies suggests that this is .. er .. bollocks.
    Also... we'd probably get some fuckwit of a superannuated politician, and not get a say in who it is. The presidency would just become another well-paid sinecure, the ultimate patronage stupid title.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited September 2022
    Taz said:
    This remnds me of Sacha Baron Cohen collecting his lifetime achievement award in the guise of Ali G. "Right now, I'm going to take this home, and put it up , pride of place , on ebay".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    murali_s said:

    A hereditary monarchy is obviously not consistent with a vibrant democracy. The question is what do you replace it with?

    Our democracy is pretty vibrant. Betwn Jan 1 2010 and Dec 31 2019 we had 5 democratically elected governments.
    Someone on here was whining on last evening about how they would fight for the Monarchy.

    Would I? If Britain were invaded by a hostile foreign power(s) and I had the means to resist, I would.

    I would fight to defend democracy so I'd have been a Roundhead last time round. Given it's not a very likely scenario, the notion of a future Monarch seeking to impose authoritarian rule on Britain is the sort of thing which would have me opposing the Monarchy.
    Indeed, like both Charles I and II.
    The Marquess of Montrose is my model: stick to my own perhaps contradictory principles pissing off everyone and end up in bits on the Royal Mile.
    Not quite: as Wiki says (the location being quite topical, of course):

    'His head was removed and stood on the "prick on the highest stone" of the Old Tolbooth outside St Giles' Cathedral from 1650 until the beginning of 1661.[26]

    Shortly after Montrose's death the Scottish Argyll Government switched sides to support Charles II's attempt to regain the English throne, providing he was willing to impose the Solemn League and Covenant in England for a trial period at least. After the Restoration Montrose was officially rehabilitated in the public memory.

    On 7 January 1661 Montrose's mangled torso was disinterred from the gallows ground on the Burgh Muir and carried under a velvet canopy to the Tolbooth, where his head was reverently removed from the spike, before the procession continued on its way to Holyrood Abbey. The diarist John Nicoll wrote the following eyewitness account of the event,

    [A guard of honour of four captains with their companies, all of them in] thair armes and displayit colouris, quha eftir a lang space marching up an doun the streitis, went out thaireftir to the Burrow mure quhair his corps wer bureyit, and quhair sundry nobles and gentrie his freindis and favorites, both hors and fute wer thair attending; and thair, in presence of sundry nobles, earls, lordis, barones and otheris convenit for the tyme, his graif [grave] was raisit, his body and bones taken out and wrappit up in curious clothes and put in a coffin, quhilk, under a canopy of rich velwet, wer careyit from the Burrow-mure to the Toun of Edinburgh; the nobles barones and gentrie on hors, the Toun of Edinburgh and many thousandis besyde, convoyit these corpis all along, the callouris [colours] fleying, drums towking [beating], trumpettis sounding, muskets cracking and cannones from the Castell roring; all of thame walking on till thai come to the Tolbuith of Edinburgh, frae the quhilke his heid wes very honorablie and with all dew respectis taken doun and put within the coffin under the cannopie with great acclamation and joy; all this tyme the trumpettis, the drumes, cannouns, gunes, the displayit cullouris geving honor to these deid corps. From thence all of thame, both hors and fute, convoyit these deid corps to the Abay Kirk of Halyrudhous quhair he is left inclosit in ane yll [aisle] till forder ordour be by his Majestie and Estaites of Parliament for the solempnitie of his Buriall.[27]

    Montrose's limbs were brought from the towns to which they had been sent (Glasgow, Perth, Stirling and Aberdeen) and placed in his coffin, as he lay in state at Holyrood. A splendid funeral was held in the church of St. Giles on 11 May 1661.[28][29]'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting at the marble counter top of a brilliant tapas bar in Seville eating yet another superb lunch while guzzling cold Spanish white and arguing nonsense with PB is one of my new fave things ever, so thanks, guys. Sincerely

    What should I eat next?





    Are you going to Jerez?

    Sadly, no, I fly back tonight

    But Seville is my new FAVE CITY ON EARTH

    It’s got everything. Esp the food & wine but certainly not just the food & wine. The happiness quotient here is phenomenal

    BTW I did some research, I’m not imagining this transformation. The city council has apparently spent 10-15 years doing up the place, pedestrianising the centre, cleaning all the buildings, installing trams and bicycles, the works. Now kids play football in beautiful squares which used to be filthy car parks

    It is genius urbanism. It is also not hard if you have the basic bones of good architecture. Not every city has the cathedrals palaces and sunshine of Seville but most places in Europe can manage some period buildings, Get rid of the fucking cars!
    I was slightly underimpressed, it doesn't have the Moorish architecture of Granada or Cordoba (or even Malaga) but it does have the best craft beer in Andalusia. The unexpected highlight of my trip last year was propping up a sherry bar in Jerez, watching flamenco and drinking sherry from the cask. Malaga old town was unexpectedly nice, the Alhambra as good as I expected, the Mesquita even better, Cadiz small and a bit boring. And Gib is weird.
    Yes Gib is weird. Bleak in places, so brutally military, but it can also be fun

    I won’t hear a word against Seville, I’m drunk in Seville

    Seville has glorious Moorish architecture, it’s just not as well known as the Alhambra

    Malaga is indeed a surprising pleasure. People think of it as an airport but it is so much more. Cadiz is oddly claustrophobic

    I want to go to Huelva. I hear it is ugly and industrial but it is the true, burning heart’s core of the Early Spanish Empire. Where Columbus sailed and prayed. Sanlucar! La Radiba! More sherry!

    Columbus was a dude. The Woke Americans who have cancelled him are idiots
    I did get to Sanlucar, and drank Manzanilla where it is made.

    What’s Huelva like?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited September 2022

    Carnyx said:

    pm215 said:

    On the topic of the stats in the header, I'm slightly surprised that over a quarter of people have seen the Queen in person. I would have guessed lower, maybe 10 or 15%...

    38% of 2019 Tory voters having seen the Queen in person seems extraordinary. I suspect some think that a postage stamp counts as 'in person'.
    Old farts. So more chances. Esp. if keen. Hell, I've seen her Maj three times that I can think of offhand (school; dad got a garden party invite with the rations; and work, which got me a handshake from her consort, who as I have noted here before had an argument with my colleague).
    I mean i've 'seen' her in that she was driven past during the silver jubilee and i waved.
    I'm more excited by the slebs in my 'randomly got pissed with' collection, and im not that excited by them, more by the being pissed
    I'm surprised it's as low as 27%, if "seen personally" rather than "met personally" is the criteria. I saw HMQ as a very youngster when (she was) on the balcony at Derby Town Hall at the Silver Jubilee. I can't recall occasions since for HMQ, though events like Ascot, Wimbledon, Wembley and similar occasions presumably count.

    KCIII will be high on 'has helped / supported' - there are a million for the Prince's Trust alone since 1976, and another million for 'have seen' for attendees at Princess Diana's funeral (leaving out since-deceased).

    It's a mathematical puzzle to untangle, like "how many constituents have been shaken by the hand by an MP". Ed Davey was estimated at 40k for his first term after winning his first election.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    algarkirk said:

    Fishing said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Occurs to me the great counter example to all the Abolitions is the greatest monarchy of all: Rome

    From Republic to Empire, and it was as an Empire that it reached its remarkable zenith

    The Roman monarchy was a peculiar affair. They spent three hundred years (until the time of Diocletian) denying that it actually was a monarchy. And, they never really worked out a theory of succession. Sometimes the monarch would inherit from his father. Other times, the monarch would just emerge, from the ranks of the Senate or civil service. Other times, he'd seize power by force.
    Whereas, at least if you follow Bagehot, we have spent a couple of hundred years denying that our country is a republic.
    We are unashamedly ambiguous. This arises out of 1000+ years of tree-like organic growth with moderated revolutions. 1066 is a bit exceptional, but that isn't really recent.

    We have never had a 'Year Nought' moment when someone sat down with a piece of parchment and said 'Here is a Nation Plan'. Oliver Cromwell came nearest, but not near enough, or successful enough, to be the real 'Year Nought' moment.

    A key player in this is Burke. He looked at 1789 and all that and said that it wasn't such a brilliant idea really, and that some sort of mess would arise. He reads like a prophet.

    We had a 1789 moment of sorts in 1688 and after but it was more farce than tragedy, and because people who were early empiricists, Anglicans and wary of Cromwell types were in charge we got what we got. It stuck. As a totality is made no logical sense at all, and it still doesn't. And being who we are we could not care less.

    No-one ever went broke underestimating our national disdain for theory of any description.

    Don't spit on your luck.

    BTW the body deciding that Charles is King is Parliament, who have so legislated. So there.

    Were more contemporary accurate descriptions and eye witness accounts available i suspect both the Harrying of the North and The Anarchy would be more defining moments of our history
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    edited September 2022
    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting at the marble counter top of a brilliant tapas bar in Seville eating yet another superb lunch while guzzling cold Spanish white and arguing nonsense with PB is one of my new fave things ever, so thanks, guys. Sincerely

    What should I eat next?





    Are you going to Jerez?

    Sadly, no, I fly back tonight

    But Seville is my new FAVE CITY ON EARTH

    It’s got everything. Esp the food & wine but certainly not just the food & wine. The happiness quotient here is phenomenal

    BTW I did some research, I’m not imagining this transformation. The city council has apparently spent 10-15 years doing up the place, pedestrianising the centre, cleaning all the buildings, installing trams and bicycles, the works. Now kids play football in beautiful squares which used to be filthy car parks

    It is genius urbanism. It is also not hard if you have the basic bones of good architecture. Not every city has the cathedrals palaces and sunshine of Seville but most places in Europe can manage some period buildings, Get rid of the fucking cars!
    I was impressed at the way the tram line was restricted to overhead charging only at the stops to preserve the views on the Avenue Carlos V. Wish we’d done the same in Edinburgh.

    What did you think of the ‘Parasol’?
    The wooden thing? I confess i haven’t been

    I am so in love with the old new town centre I spend my time here wandering from bar to church to bar to museum to bar

    Lazy, i know
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited September 2022
    Strangely, John Lennon once described Gibraltar as a "sunny dream", but that must have been because he was so excited to have just married Yoko Ono on The Rock. It does indeed seem to be a pretty peculiar place.
  • Taz said:
    Why is Vat 21% on ebay?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    thart said:

    kle4 said:

    thart said:

    You could make the argument that does democracy even work properly when a large group of people many who have been out of the workforce for 20 to 30 years consistently swing elections

    Was democracy supposed to only represent the workforce? If not, then it is certainly frustrating how the elderly vote is so influential, but it is certainly not undemocratic. As to whether that works even if it is democratic, well, that's just a general argument about whether democracy works, which applies to matters other than old people getting more influence.
    Well we have never had democracies with such large elderly populations. Now a wise and informed elderly population is one thing but in the absence of that people vote their self interest. And as you become increasingly disconnected from the working world that becomes a problem
    It’s not the fault of elderly voters if they are more motivated to vote than younger people.
    So can we have weekend voting to encourage more workers to vote? No? Quelle surprise.
    Isn’t postal voting universally available these days?
    Indeed. It was brought in to encourage and facilitate voting by the elderly......
    But it’s universal. So anyone can get one if they are unable to vote during the normal voting hours. Again it points to motivation, not ease of access.
    Why are the establishment more interested in providing access to vote that suits the elderly rather than the young? It is fairly obviously in their self interest.
    Postal votes can be used by voters of any age.
    Yes but they are used proportionately more by older voters. .
    But that's voluntary choice at work - if younger, working people do not take up that option that is not the fault of the postal voting system, since they are perfectly able to use it. I have, once, due to being requested to do so around Covid restrictions.

    You seem to be saying that because older people tend to use it more postal voting is unfair. When in fact it actively makes it less unfair by offering an option for those who simply cannot find the time on the day of the vote.
    No, I want to encourage as many people to vote as possible, of all ages. So postal votes are great for lots of people especially those with mobility issues. Weekend voting would be great for workers, especially those at the lower end of the economic scale with low control over hours worked and low access to flexible transportation.
    The problem with postal voting is that you have to send your vote off early, so miss the end of the campaign. On two occasions I can remember, I have made my mind up on the way to the polling station.

    Postal voting at scale distorts elections in this way. The campaign is the totality of it, up to polling day.

    I would introduce internet voting, with the ability to change your vote until the polls close. The next stage would be STV with the candidate with the lowest vote dropping out until only the last two were left, before the Returning Officer announced the winner. It would be like watching Strictly, except with John Curtice instead of Tess Daly.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    Leon said:

    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting at the marble counter top of a brilliant tapas bar in Seville eating yet another superb lunch while guzzling cold Spanish white and arguing nonsense with PB is one of my new fave things ever, so thanks, guys. Sincerely

    What should I eat next?





    Are you going to Jerez?

    Sadly, no, I fly back tonight

    But Seville is my new FAVE CITY ON EARTH

    It’s got everything. Esp the food & wine but certainly not just the food & wine. The happiness quotient here is phenomenal

    BTW I did some research, I’m not imagining this transformation. The city council has apparently spent 10-15 years doing up the place, pedestrianising the centre, cleaning all the buildings, installing trams and bicycles, the works. Now kids play football in beautiful squares which used to be filthy car parks

    It is genius urbanism. It is also not hard if you have the basic bones of good architecture. Not every city has the cathedrals palaces and sunshine of Seville but most places in Europe can manage some period buildings, Get rid of the fucking cars!
    I was impressed at the way the tram line was restricted to overhead charging only at the stops to preserve the views on the Avenue Carlos V. Wish we’d done the same in Edinburgh.

    What did you think of the ‘Parasol’?
    The wooden thing? I confess i haven’t been

    I am so in love with the old new town centre I spend my time here wandering from bar to church to bar to museum to bar

    Lazy, i know
    The Dr Who story ‘the two doctors’ was filmed there in the eighties.

    Story was the reason for it was the producer and his partner fancied a free jolly to a great place to visit. The story may as well have been filmed in Cromer for all the good being in Seville was.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    To what extent is the tardiness of Germany’s supply of weapons to Ukraine related to manufacturing constraints, and limited existing stocks ?
    (They’ve certainly provided substantial financial aid, for example.)

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1571110300484792321
    The German government has approved Ukraine's request for more RCH-155 howitzers. However, the manufacturer will be able to produce them for Ukraine no earlier than the first half of 2025, reports Welt am Sonntag citing
    @MelnykAndrij and documents received from the manufacturer…


    It’s clearly not an insignificant problem in general.
    Poland, for example, just ordered several billion dollars worth of a S Korean F16 derivative light fighter (with inferior performance), because they aren’t prepared to wait years for deliveries of new F16s from the US, and the Korean jet (the FA-50) is available very quickly.

    Germany's armed forces were/are in a shockingly poor state. When the German government was shopping around for things to cut in the wake of the Global Financial Crisis and the Eurozone crisis, Merkel saw military spending and thought it was an easy place to make reductions.

    From an NYTimes article at the start of the year:

    There is a shortage of everything from protective vests to thermal underwear. Radio equipment is 30 years out of date. Only one in three warships is ready to deploy — so few that the navy worries it cannot meet all its international commitments.

    Even in Rukla, the flagship German NATO mission which has relatively few complaints when it comes to resources, the general scarcity has been felt.

    Some of the armored vehicles are five decades old. During international exercises in Lithuania, their equipment routinely made the German units “the weakest link in the chain,” soldiers reported to the parliamentary commissioner for the armed forces on their return from tours in Rukla.
    There also aspects around slowness to mobilise commitments once made, I think.

    This is quite an interesting interview with Brigadier General Dr. Christian Freuding, head of the Ukraine special staff at the Defense Ministry in Germany. As opposed to the top army bosses who seem to want to get themselves defenestrated.

    This is in German, but change the settings and it will auto-translate into English substitles/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPSh-g-wdT0
    That is very interesting (and I'm also blown away by how good the Google subtitles are!).
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

    Isn't this what J D Vance has been saying on the stump for Ohio senate election?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited September 2022

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    With all due respect, this is ludicrous

    Any political institution in the world would kill every kitten in the catteries of Kilburn to get these figures of support

    I thought the young weren’t meant to care about this old crone yet 63% of them report being at least a little upset

    in the age range 25-49 53% support the monarchy and only 27% oppose - so that’s 2 to 1. And the figures get, of course, much higher as you go up the ages

    Unless Charles actually stabs his own children with one of those leaky pens we are decades from the monarchy being remotely imperilled

    The monarchy can never afford to be complacent. But it is often implied (or outright stated) that 'the end is near' based off what is at worst lukewarm feelings from the young, or ethnic minorities.

    The monarchy can handle things getting lukewarm. It's people being strongly against that would be an issue.

    That's why its if there is a clash between crown and Tory government that problems would come.
    Indeed

    And these figures must be seen in context. One of the Late Queen’s sons, Prince Andrew, has been exposed as (allegedly?) a horrible pedophile, a predatory monster who has to pay off his victims. He is such a scandal he has to be hidden away until it is unavoidable that he is seen, then he is hidden away again

    He narrowly avoided a rape trial in New York

    Meanwhile a beautiful black woman who married into the family is claiming they are all racist

    It’s about as bad as it gets. It is hard to envisage a worse context for the Royal Family, within the realms of the Likely. I guess Prince William could join the Wagner group and be seen shooting Ukrainian ballet dancers? Apart from that any deeper scandal strikes me as highly improbable

    And still the monarchy has rock solid support. Two to one or more. It isn’t going anywhere



    Can you be exposed as an alleged pedophile?
    If Andrew dropped his trousers, he would be exposed and an alleged paedophile.

    Would that cover it?

    Or rather, uncover it?
    Has he been accused of paedophilia? As I understand it, the ladies in question have all been legal, under UK law.
    He's certainly been mugged via the US Legal lottery gold mine, where 90%+ (?) of actions are settled out of court.

    Whether that bears any relation whatsover as to what he has actually done is a totally different question. If la whatever-her-name-was wanted a criminal conviction, it would not have been a civil case in the USA.

    Did the settlement specifically include an acknowledgement of nothing proven? Since we are in US civil legal territory, I didn't follow in obsessive detail.

    I seem to recall a very skeptical (contemptuous?) legal evaluation from @DavidL .
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    murali_s said:

    A hereditary monarchy is obviously not consistent with a vibrant democracy. The question is what do you replace it with?

    Our democracy is pretty vibrant. Betwn Jan 1 2010 and Dec 31 2019 we had 5 democratically elected governments.
    Someone on here was whining on last evening about how they would fight for the Monarchy.

    Would I? If Britain were invaded by a hostile foreign power(s) and I had the means to resist, I would.

    I would fight to defend democracy so I'd have been a Roundhead last time round. Given it's not a very likely scenario, the notion of a future Monarch seeking to impose authoritarian rule on Britain is the sort of thing which would have me opposing the Monarchy.
    Indeed, like both Charles I and II.
    The Marquess of Montrose is my model: stick to my own perhaps contradictory principles pissing off everyone and end up in bits on the Royal Mile.
    Not quite: as Wiki says (the location being quite topical, of course):

    'His head was removed and stood on the "prick on the highest stone" of the Old Tolbooth outside St Giles' Cathedral from 1650 until the beginning of 1661.[26]

    Shortly after Montrose's death the Scottish Argyll Government switched sides to support Charles II's attempt to regain the English throne, providing he was willing to impose the Solemn League and Covenant in England for a trial period at least. After the Restoration Montrose was officially rehabilitated in the public memory.

    On 7 January 1661 Montrose's mangled torso was disinterred from the gallows ground on the Burgh Muir and carried under a velvet canopy to the Tolbooth, where his head was reverently removed from the spike, before the procession continued on its way to Holyrood Abbey. The diarist John Nicoll wrote the following eyewitness account of the event,

    [A guard of honour of four captains with their companies, all of them in] thair armes and displayit colouris, quha eftir a lang space marching up an doun the streitis, went out thaireftir to the Burrow mure quhair his corps wer bureyit, and quhair sundry nobles and gentrie his freindis and favorites, both hors and fute wer thair attending; and thair, in presence of sundry nobles, earls, lordis, barones and otheris convenit for the tyme, his graif [grave] was raisit, his body and bones taken out and wrappit up in curious clothes and put in a coffin, quhilk, under a canopy of rich velwet, wer careyit from the Burrow-mure to the Toun of Edinburgh; the nobles barones and gentrie on hors, the Toun of Edinburgh and many thousandis besyde, convoyit these corpis all along, the callouris [colours] fleying, drums towking [beating], trumpettis sounding, muskets cracking and cannones from the Castell roring; all of thame walking on till thai come to the Tolbuith of Edinburgh, frae the quhilke his heid wes very honorablie and with all dew respectis taken doun and put within the coffin under the cannopie with great acclamation and joy; all this tyme the trumpettis, the drumes, cannouns, gunes, the displayit cullouris geving honor to these deid corps. From thence all of thame, both hors and fute, convoyit these deid corps to the Abay Kirk of Halyrudhous quhair he is left inclosit in ane yll [aisle] till forder ordour be by his Majestie and Estaites of Parliament for the solempnitie of his Buriall.[27]

    Montrose's limbs were brought from the towns to which they had been sent (Glasgow, Perth, Stirling and Aberdeen) and placed in his coffin, as he lay in state at Holyrood. A splendid funeral was held in the church of St. Giles on 11 May 1661.[28][29]'
    I suspect the Stuarts preferred him admirably dead than mercurially alive. Interesting to consider how his life would have panned out if he'd escaped the rope.

    Bonny fechter though.
    Charles (PB's chief posho and people trafficking expert, now departed) claimed Montrose as an ancestor along with all the others, and thought that this was an insult despite asserting some familiarity with Scotland.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

    There was a new synthetic route for fentanyl published in 2014. Whether this is being used illicitly I can’t say, but it’s not difficult chemistry.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    6.6 earthquake in Taiwan just to add to the general chaos
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

    The circularity of history, as we destroyed the Chinese Imperial society just that way in the 19th Century. We didn't need to smuggle it though, we sold it to them at gunpoint.

    Put it on the demerit side of the British Empire scorecard.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,790
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting at the marble counter top of a brilliant tapas bar in Seville eating yet another superb lunch while guzzling cold Spanish white and arguing nonsense with PB is one of my new fave things ever, so thanks, guys. Sincerely

    What should I eat next?





    Are you going to Jerez?

    Sadly, no, I fly back tonight

    But Seville is my new FAVE CITY ON EARTH

    It’s got everything. Esp the food & wine but certainly not just the food & wine. The happiness quotient here is phenomenal

    BTW I did some research, I’m not imagining this transformation. The city council has apparently spent 10-15 years doing up the place, pedestrianising the centre, cleaning all the buildings, installing trams and bicycles, the works. Now kids play football in beautiful squares which used to be filthy car parks

    It is genius urbanism. It is also not hard if you have the basic bones of good architecture. Not every city has the cathedrals palaces and sunshine of Seville but most places in Europe can manage some period buildings, Get rid of the fucking cars!
    I was impressed at the way the tram line was restricted to overhead charging only at the stops to preserve the views on the Avenue Carlos V. Wish we’d done the same in Edinburgh.

    What did you think of the ‘Parasol’?
    The wooden thing? I confess i haven’t been

    I am so in love with the old new town centre I spend my time here wandering from bar to church to bar to museum to bar

    Lazy, i know
    The Dr Who story ‘the two doctors’ was filmed there in the eighties.

    Story was the reason for it was the producer and his partner fancied a free jolly to a great place to visit. The story may as well have been filmed in Cromer for all the good being in Seville was.
    Keith Floyd always referred to his cookery shows filmed in sunnier climes as 'BBC Minibreaks'. Always comes to mind when I see a British detective/thriller/whatever show film in Provence or the like. Good on them.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    The interesting divergence in the polling. 40% of 18 to 24 year olds support the monarchy but 63% were varying degrees of upset about the Queen dieing .
  • I would have answered oppose at that age but would answer support now.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sitting at the marble counter top of a brilliant tapas bar in Seville eating yet another superb lunch while guzzling cold Spanish white and arguing nonsense with PB is one of my new fave things ever, so thanks, guys. Sincerely

    What should I eat next?





    Are you going to Jerez?

    Sadly, no, I fly back tonight

    But Seville is my new FAVE CITY ON EARTH

    It’s got everything. Esp the food & wine but certainly not just the food & wine. The happiness quotient here is phenomenal

    BTW I did some research, I’m not imagining this transformation. The city council has apparently spent 10-15 years doing up the place, pedestrianising the centre, cleaning all the buildings, installing trams and bicycles, the works. Now kids play football in beautiful squares which used to be filthy car parks

    It is genius urbanism. It is also not hard if you have the basic bones of good architecture. Not every city has the cathedrals palaces and sunshine of Seville but most places in Europe can manage some period buildings, Get rid of the fucking cars!
    I was slightly underimpressed, it doesn't have the Moorish architecture of Granada or Cordoba (or even Malaga) but it does have the best craft beer in Andalusia. The unexpected highlight of my trip last year was propping up a sherry bar in Jerez, watching flamenco and drinking sherry from the cask. Malaga old town was unexpectedly nice, the Alhambra as good as I expected, the Mesquita even better, Cadiz small and a bit boring. And Gib is weird.
    Yes Gib is weird. Bleak in places, so brutally military, but it can also be fun

    I won’t hear a word against Seville, I’m drunk in Seville

    Seville has glorious Moorish architecture, it’s just not as well known as the Alhambra

    Malaga is indeed a surprising pleasure. People think of it as an airport but it is so much more. Cadiz is oddly claustrophobic

    I want to go to Huelva. I hear it is ugly and industrial but it is the true, burning heart’s core of the Early Spanish Empire. Where Columbus sailed and prayed. Sanlucar! La Radiba! More sherry!

    Columbus was a dude. The Woke Americans who have cancelled him are idiots
    I did get to Sanlucar, and drank Manzanilla where it is made.

    What’s Huelva like?
    Didn't get to Huelva. I was short of time anyway, helped by doing Cadiz and Sanlucar as day trips from Jerez. Was entirely fortuitously in Cadiz on Trafalgar Day, toasted the Immortal Memory in Fino, although very quietly
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Will young people ever realise that they are being screwed over by the old and do something about it? It was something I was mad about for many years, but few seemed to share my perspective.

    I am not saying that the monarchy is a particular flashpoint in this issue, but young people seem to be very complacent and apathetic. In a lot of ways they are simply being exploited by the old. Many young people are not paid enough to live on. Their rent goes to pay off someone elses mortgage. They are denied the resources and support to bring up a family. And then they are told by telegraph readers 'now its time for the young to pay for us!'.

    They don't get politically active on the whole, so all the main parties have policies that appeal mainly to old people.

    It is a very strange and potentially dangerous situation, as the democratic system seems to be failing to engage young people, which may possibly be behind the recent polling that showed young people were in favour of authoritarianism.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    edited September 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    To what extent is the tardiness of Germany’s supply of weapons to Ukraine related to manufacturing constraints, and limited existing stocks ?
    (They’ve certainly provided substantial financial aid, for example.)

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1571110300484792321
    The German government has approved Ukraine's request for more RCH-155 howitzers. However, the manufacturer will be able to produce them for Ukraine no earlier than the first half of 2025, reports Welt am Sonntag citing
    @MelnykAndrij and documents received from the manufacturer…


    It’s clearly not an insignificant problem in general.
    Poland, for example, just ordered several billion dollars worth of a S Korean F16 derivative light fighter (with inferior performance), because they aren’t prepared to wait years for deliveries of new F16s from the US, and the Korean jet (the FA-50) is available very quickly.

    Germany's armed forces were/are in a shockingly poor state. When the German government was shopping around for things to cut in the wake of the Global Financial Crisis and the Eurozone crisis, Merkel saw military spending and thought it was an easy place to make reductions.

    From an NYTimes article at the start of the year:

    There is a shortage of everything from protective vests to thermal underwear. Radio equipment is 30 years out of date. Only one in three warships is ready to deploy — so few that the navy worries it cannot meet all its international commitments.

    Even in Rukla, the flagship German NATO mission which has relatively few complaints when it comes to resources, the general scarcity has been felt.

    Some of the armored vehicles are five decades old. During international exercises in Lithuania, their equipment routinely made the German units “the weakest link in the chain,” soldiers reported to the parliamentary commissioner for the armed forces on their return from tours in Rukla.
    There also aspects around slowness to mobilise commitments once made, I think.

    This is quite an interesting interview with Brigadier General Dr. Christian Freuding, head of the Ukraine special staff at the Defense Ministry in Germany. As opposed to the top army bosses who seem to want to get themselves defenestrated.

    This is in German, but change the settings and it will auto-translate into English substitles/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPSh-g-wdT0
    That is very interesting (and I'm also blown away by how good the Google subtitles are!).
    The interview format was very German-military, and not quite up to the top-half visible commentary presentations by the Austrian General who has stopped after being appointed the chief of something important, who I couldn't avoid thinking of as being in Lederhosen or a video-conference naked-lower-half uniform. Which is probably insufficiently respectful of a real pro.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited September 2022
    Further to the discussion about what Britain is really like, as evidenced by monarchist culture here, can people see whether they can find some foreign equivalents or near-equivalents for the following photos.

    If nobody can find any, then obviously they say something highly specific about Britain.

    Don't worry about admitting this - it doesn't mean your mind has been taken over by whoever is currently playing the role of "wicked foreign leader".

    And if not for any of these, then how about an equivalent for the "Woolworth's test", so beloved of British medics? (Eh @Foxy?) Or for burning £20 notes in front of homeless people for a laugh?

    Here's Prince Harry's former girlfriend Chelsy Davy, enjoying herself with her friends. Note the pretended pregnancy. Something funny or contemptible about proles reproducing?

    image

    image

    I looked for the photo of Prince William acting similarly. It was printed in the Sun, in an article called "Future Bling of England". The text is here. The photo took a while to find, because the Sun removed the article from here. Fortunately they didn't wipe the article from archive.org:

    image

    Here are two videos of a "chav hunt":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gYD_LLFTQU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_YhKbrhnY

    There's a photo with Prince Charles (when he was called that) and Prince William, with the younger man making a gangster handsign.

    There's another photo with Eton pupils posing at a roadsign dressed as proles. The roadsign was near the school, and the banner they were holding said something about a "Comp", from what I recall. It may have mentioned Slough.

    I couldn't find either of those photos, but I've seen them.

    Parallels from other countries please.

    There's far more hatred pointing downwards in Britain than there is pointing upwards.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    edited September 2022
    wooliedyed said:6.6 earthquake in Taiwan just to add to the general chaos

    Makes this article from yesterday quite prescient.

    https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202209160008

    Edit. No idea why the bizarre formatting.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

    There was a new synthetic route for fentanyl published in 2014. Whether this is being used illicitly I can’t say, but it’s not difficult chemistry.
    It has allegedly been showing up in absolutely everything lately, from street diazepam to ravers' MDMA. The problem is that it only takes a tiny, tiny amount to be present (i.e. a single speck) in order for a sample to test positive. So it's quite possible if your dealer (or the supplier) happens to sell both products then there will be a degree of cross contamination at some point in the supply chain that causes a positive test, even though the actual amount of fentanyl is negligible (wouldn't even get you high, let alone be dangerous).

    But that is the problem with fentanyl. A few specks the size of a grain of salt are enough to kill you.

    Another problem is the sheer number of analogues of pretty much every type of drug being created these days. In some countries to get around laws prohibiting specific drugs (move a few molecules around and you have a new drug that does exactly what the old one did but isn't illegal) or just to avoid detection. The problem is that many of these analogues are stronger and more dangerous than the old school drugs they replace.

    In my view the war on drugs is lost and the only sensible route to harm reduction is legalization, production by professional laboratories, and sale under license in government approved shops. It's that or executing drug dealers / cutting the hands off users etc (not possible in a civililzed liberal society). Anything else just hands the market over to dangerous, unregulated laboratories and murderous gangsters.
  • darkage said:


    Will young people ever realise that they are being screwed over by the old and do something about it? It was something I was mad about for many years, but few seemed to share my perspective.

    I am not saying that the monarchy is a particular flashpoint in this issue, but young people seem to be very complacent and apathetic. In a lot of ways they are simply being exploited by the old. Many young people are not paid enough to live on. Their rent goes to pay off someone elses mortgage. They are denied the resources and support to bring up a family. And then they are told by telegraph readers 'now its time for the young to pay for us!'.

    They don't get politically active on the whole, so all the main parties have policies that appeal mainly to old people.

    It is a very strange and potentially dangerous situation, as the democratic system seems to be failing to engage young people, which may possibly be behind the recent polling that showed young people were in favour of authoritarianism.

    There is a lot of drug taking. The young csre about its legalisation.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited September 2022
    dixiedean said:

    wooliedyed said:

    6.6 earthquake in Taiwan just to add to the general chaos

    Makes this article from yesterday quite prescient.

    https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202209160008

    Edit. No idea why the bizarre formatting.

    Indeed. Haarp theorists have a trouser bulge rn
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    edited September 2022
    Dynamo said:

    Further to the discussion about what Britain is really like, as evidenced by monarchist culture here, can people see whether they can find some foreign equivalents or near-equivalents for the following photos.

    If nobody can find any, then obviously they say something highly specific about Britain.

    Don't worry about admitting this - it doesn't mean your mind has been taken over by whoever is currently playing the role of "wicked foreign leader".

    And if not for any of these, then how about an equivalent for the "Woolworth's test", so beloved of British medics? (Eh @Foxy?) Or for burning £20 notes in front of homeless people for a laugh?

    Here's Prince Harry's former girlfriend Chelsy Davy, enjoying herself with her friends. Note the pretended pregnancy. Something funny or contemptible about proles reproducing?

    image

    image

    I looked for the photo of Prince William acting similarly. It was printed in the Sun, in an article called "Future Bling of England". The text is here. The photo took a while to find, because the Sun removed the article from here. Fortunately they didn't wipe the article from archive.org:

    image

    Here are two videos of a "chav hunt":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gYD_LLFTQU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_YhKbrhnY

    There's a photo with Prince Charles (when he was called that) and Prince William, with the younger man making a gangster handsign.

    There's another photo with Eton pupils posing at a roadsign dressed as proles. The roadsign was near the school, and the banner they were holding said something about a "Comp", from what I recall. It may have mentioned Slough.

    I couldn't find either of those photos, but I've seen them.

    Parallels from other countries please.

    There's far more hatred pointing downwards in Britain than there is pointing upwards.

    Your thesis is that only in Britain one group of society makes fun of another? OK.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited September 2022

    darkage said:


    Will young people ever realise that they are being screwed over by the old and do something about it? It was something I was mad about for many years, but few seemed to share my perspective.

    I am not saying that the monarchy is a particular flashpoint in this issue, but young people seem to be very complacent and apathetic. In a lot of ways they are simply being exploited by the old. Many young people are not paid enough to live on. Their rent goes to pay off someone elses mortgage. They are denied the resources and support to bring up a family. And then they are told by telegraph readers 'now its time for the young to pay for us!'.

    They don't get politically active on the whole, so all the main parties have policies that appeal mainly to old people.

    It is a very strange and potentially dangerous situation, as the democratic system seems to be failing to engage young people, which may possibly be behind the recent polling that showed young people were in favour of authoritarianism.

    There is a lot of drug taking. The young csre about its legalisation.
    Britain is still very far behind Canada, the US, and countries like portugal on the sensible and managed decriminalisation of cannabis, and reduction of the more dangerous THC elements. There also seems to be increasing evidence that microdoses of LSD benefit a very wide range of people, although no western country seems seems to have been bold enough to go there yet. We probably wouldn't benefit as much from drugs like cocaine being legal, but South and Central America certainly would.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Further to the discussion about what Britain is really like, as evidenced by monarchist culture here, can people see whether they can find some foreign equivalents or near-equivalents for the following photos.

    If nobody can find any, then obviously they say something highly specific about Britain.

    Don't worry about admitting this - it doesn't mean your mind has been taken over by whoever is currently playing the role of "wicked foreign leader".

    And if not for any of these, then how about an equivalent for the "Woolworth's test", so beloved of British medics? (Eh @Foxy?) Or for burning £20 notes in front of homeless people for a laugh?

    Here's Prince Harry's former girlfriend Chelsy Davy, enjoying herself with her friends. Note the pretended pregnancy. Something funny or contemptible about proles reproducing?

    image

    image

    I looked for the photo of Prince William acting similarly. It was printed in the Sun, in an article called "Future Bling of England". The text is here. The photo took a while to find, because the Sun removed the article from here. Fortunately they didn't wipe the article from archive.org:

    image

    Here are two videos of a "chav hunt":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gYD_LLFTQU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_YhKbrhnY

    There's a photo with Prince Charles (when he was called that) and Prince William, with the younger man making a gangster handsign.

    There's another photo with Eton pupils posing at a roadsign dressed as proles. The roadsign was near the school, and the banner they were holding said something about a "Comp", from what I recall. It may have mentioned Slough.

    I couldn't find either of those photos, but I've seen them.

    Parallels from other countries please.

    There's far more hatred pointing downwards in Britain than there is pointing upwards.

    Your thesis is that only in Britain one group of society makes fun of another? OK.
    Find the nearest parallel and post it.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    .

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    thart said:

    kle4 said:

    thart said:

    You could make the argument that does democracy even work properly when a large group of people many who have been out of the workforce for 20 to 30 years consistently swing elections

    Was democracy supposed to only represent the workforce? If not, then it is certainly frustrating how the elderly vote is so influential, but it is certainly not undemocratic. As to whether that works even if it is democratic, well, that's just a general argument about whether democracy works, which applies to matters other than old people getting more influence.
    Well we have never had democracies with such large elderly populations. Now a wise and informed elderly population is one thing but in the absence of that people vote their self interest. And as you become increasingly disconnected from the working world that becomes a problem
    It’s not the fault of elderly voters if they are more motivated to vote than younger people.
    So can we have weekend voting to encourage more workers to vote? No? Quelle surprise.
    Isn’t postal voting universally available these days?
    Indeed. It was brought in to encourage and facilitate voting by the elderly......
    But it’s universal. So anyone can get one if they are unable to vote during the normal voting hours. Again it points to motivation, not ease of access.
    Although it seems that encouragement to vote by post is aimed primarily at the elderly.
    Based on what? There’s no age requirement for accessing it, and the ability to get one is advertised through things like twitter. It’s not as if postal voting is only advertised at the WI or something.
    The problem is that, with the present voting system, it is usually a choice between a donkey with a blue rosette and another donkey with a red one. Not much motivation to take any kind of interest there, is there?

    On the other hand, with STV and multi-member constituencies, one has a choice among the candidates of all the parties. For example, I would vote first for the Lib Dem candidates, then for the Labour or Conservatives ones, depending. I would rank a Rory Tory candidate ahead of the rest, for example, or a Lisa Nandy ahead of the Corbyn types. If one is going to be represented by an MP of another party as well, it is far better to be represented by a decent / intelligent / interesting one, And so people take more interest in what all of them are saying.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Dynamo said:

    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Further to the discussion about what Britain is really like, as evidenced by monarchist culture here, can people see whether they can find some foreign equivalents or near-equivalents for the following photos.

    If nobody can find any, then obviously they say something highly specific about Britain.

    Don't worry about admitting this - it doesn't mean your mind has been taken over by whoever is currently playing the role of "wicked foreign leader".

    And if not for any of these, then how about an equivalent for the "Woolworth's test", so beloved of British medics? (Eh @Foxy?) Or for burning £20 notes in front of homeless people for a laugh?

    Here's Prince Harry's former girlfriend Chelsy Davy, enjoying herself with her friends. Note the pretended pregnancy. Something funny or contemptible about proles reproducing?

    image

    image

    I looked for the photo of Prince William acting similarly. It was printed in the Sun, in an article called "Future Bling of England". The text is here. The photo took a while to find, because the Sun removed the article from here. Fortunately they didn't wipe the article from archive.org:

    image

    Here are two videos of a "chav hunt":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gYD_LLFTQU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_YhKbrhnY

    There's a photo with Prince Charles (when he was called that) and Prince William, with the younger man making a gangster handsign.

    There's another photo with Eton pupils posing at a roadsign dressed as proles. The roadsign was near the school, and the banner they were holding said something about a "Comp", from what I recall. It may have mentioned Slough.

    I couldn't find either of those photos, but I've seen them.

    Parallels from other countries please.

    There's far more hatred pointing downwards in Britain than there is pointing upwards.

    Your thesis is that only in Britain one group of society makes fun of another? OK.
    Find the nearest parallel and post it.
    Why? That would involve me trawling through the foreign tabloid press to prove a point that is (mostly) undisputed.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Without doubt PB is a “Republican” site with a higher number on here laughing at us who don’t believe monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice is ‘a lie’
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

    My dog was prescribed Fentanyl that was produced by a US pharma company. So presumably the US is also a (legal) manufacturer of it.

    I mean it might have been invented by the Chinese and then copied by the US pharma company.

    But it seems more likely the Chinese saw an opportunity to make the US drug in massive quantities.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Further to the discussion about what Britain is really like, as evidenced by monarchist culture here, can people see whether they can find some foreign equivalents or near-equivalents for the following photos.

    If nobody can find any, then obviously they say something highly specific about Britain.

    Don't worry about admitting this - it doesn't mean your mind has been taken over by whoever is currently playing the role of "wicked foreign leader".

    And if not for any of these, then how about an equivalent for the "Woolworth's test", so beloved of British medics? (Eh @Foxy?) Or for burning £20 notes in front of homeless people for a laugh?

    Here's Prince Harry's former girlfriend Chelsy Davy, enjoying herself with her friends. Note the pretended pregnancy. Something funny or contemptible about proles reproducing?

    image

    image

    I looked for the photo of Prince William acting similarly. It was printed in the Sun, in an article called "Future Bling of England". The text is here. The photo took a while to find, because the Sun removed the article from here. Fortunately they didn't wipe the article from archive.org:

    image

    Here are two videos of a "chav hunt":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gYD_LLFTQU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_YhKbrhnY

    There's a photo with Prince Charles (when he was called that) and Prince William, with the younger man making a gangster handsign.

    There's another photo with Eton pupils posing at a roadsign dressed as proles. The roadsign was near the school, and the banner they were holding said something about a "Comp", from what I recall. It may have mentioned Slough.

    I couldn't find either of those photos, but I've seen them.

    Parallels from other countries please.

    There's far more hatred pointing downwards in Britain than there is pointing upwards.

    Your thesis is that only in Britain one group of society makes fun of another? OK.
    Chelsea Davy is the daughter of a South African billionaire businessman who had close ties with Webster Shamu, who was a major figure in Cde Bobs ZanuPF govt in Zimbabwe. She is also Zimbabwean. So what is the relevance of her here ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    darkage said:


    Will young people ever realise that they are being screwed over by the old and do something about it? It was something I was mad about for many years, but few seemed to share my perspective.

    I am not saying that the monarchy is a particular flashpoint in this issue, but young people seem to be very complacent and apathetic. In a lot of ways they are simply being exploited by the old. Many young people are not paid enough to live on. Their rent goes to pay off someone elses mortgage. They are denied the resources and support to bring up a family. And then they are told by telegraph readers 'now its time for the young to pay for us!'.

    They don't get politically active on the whole, so all the main parties have policies that appeal mainly to old people.

    It is a very strange and potentially dangerous situation, as the democratic system seems to be failing to engage young people, which may possibly be behind the recent polling that showed young people were in favour of authoritarianism.

    There is a lot of drug taking. The young csre about its legalisation.
    Britain is still very far behind Canada, the US, and countries like portugal on the sensible and managed decriminalisation of cannabis, and reduction of the more dangerous THC elements. There also seems to be increasing evidence that microdoses of LSD benefit a very wide range of people, although no western country seems seems to have been bold enough to go there yet. We probably wouldn't benefit as much from drugs like cocaine being legal, but South and Central America certainly would.
    What controls are there on high THC cannabis in the USA and Canada? Let me answer that for you: virtually none. The pure THC waxes now available are hugely more dangerous than the classic psychedelics.

    BTW best evidence is that microdosing lsd/psilocybin is all placebo effect. Macrodosing is the way to go.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

    The circularity of history, as we destroyed the Chinese Imperial society just that way in the 19th Century. We didn't need to smuggle it though, we sold it to them at gunpoint.

    Put it on the demerit side of the British Empire scorecard.
    Yes. A fine irony
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    If I had a pound for every time someone said "Young people oppose X, all we need to do is wait..."
    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Further to the discussion about what Britain is really like, as evidenced by monarchist culture here, can people see whether they can find some foreign equivalents or near-equivalents for the following photos.

    If nobody can find any, then obviously they say something highly specific about Britain.

    Don't worry about admitting this - it doesn't mean your mind has been taken over by whoever is currently playing the role of "wicked foreign leader".

    And if not for any of these, then how about an equivalent for the "Woolworth's test", so beloved of British medics? (Eh @Foxy?) Or for burning £20 notes in front of homeless people for a laugh?

    Here's Prince Harry's former girlfriend Chelsy Davy, enjoying herself with her friends. Note the pretended pregnancy. Something funny or contemptible about proles reproducing?

    image

    image

    I looked for the photo of Prince William acting similarly. It was printed in the Sun, in an article called "Future Bling of England". The text is here. The photo took a while to find, because the Sun removed the article from here. Fortunately they didn't wipe the article from archive.org:

    image

    Here are two videos of a "chav hunt":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gYD_LLFTQU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_YhKbrhnY

    There's a photo with Prince Charles (when he was called that) and Prince William, with the younger man making a gangster handsign.

    There's another photo with Eton pupils posing at a roadsign dressed as proles. The roadsign was near the school, and the banner they were holding said something about a "Comp", from what I recall. It may have mentioned Slough.

    I couldn't find either of those photos, but I've seen them.

    Parallels from other countries please.

    There's far more hatred pointing downwards in Britain than there is pointing upwards.

    Your thesis is that only in Britain one group of society makes fun of another? OK.
    Find the nearest parallel and post it.
    Why? That would involve me trawling through the foreign tabloid press to prove a point that is (mostly) undisputed.
    There is the whole Bogon thing in Australia, as a start. Complete with the pitch that it isn't pejorative.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited September 2022

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy. The monarchy can't, and shouldn't be above criticism in this system - because if it is, it begins to take on some of the characteristics of absolute monarchy once again.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited September 2022
    Dynamo said:

    RobD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Further to the discussion about what Britain is really like, as evidenced by monarchist culture here, can people see whether they can find some foreign equivalents or near-equivalents for the following photos.

    If nobody can find any, then obviously they say something highly specific about Britain.

    Don't worry about admitting this - it doesn't mean your mind has been taken over by whoever is currently playing the role of "wicked foreign leader".

    And if not for any of these, then how about an equivalent for the "Woolworth's test", so beloved of British medics? (Eh @Foxy?) Or for burning £20 notes in front of homeless people for a laugh?

    Here's Prince Harry's former girlfriend Chelsy Davy, enjoying herself with her friends. Note the pretended pregnancy. Something funny or contemptible about proles reproducing?

    image

    image

    I looked for the photo of Prince William acting similarly. It was printed in the Sun, in an article called "Future Bling of England". The text is here. The photo took a while to find, because the Sun removed the article from here. Fortunately they didn't wipe the article from archive.org:

    image

    Here are two videos of a "chav hunt":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gYD_LLFTQU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_YhKbrhnY

    There's a photo with Prince Charles (when he was called that) and Prince William, with the younger man making a gangster handsign.

    There's another photo with Eton pupils posing at a roadsign dressed as proles. The roadsign was near the school, and the banner they were holding said something about a "Comp", from what I recall. It may have mentioned Slough.

    I couldn't find either of those photos, but I've seen them.

    Parallels from other countries please.

    There's far more hatred pointing downwards in Britain than there is pointing upwards.

    Your thesis is that only in Britain one group of society makes fun of another? OK.
    Find the nearest parallel and post it.
    Not a level playing field, because you are clearly an obsessive collector of these images. It's like a beer mat collector saying No Tibetan lager has ever been advertised with a triangular mat, go on, PROVE ME WRONG.
  • Haven't read the thread but a strong majority of 18-24s were upset, a clear plurality support the monarchy, most of the "don't knows" will firm up and move to support as they age, and some of the youthful republicans will grow up and convert, just like Truss and Starmer did.

    The monarchy isn't going anywhere.

    Next.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NigelB said: "Since the Presidential elections are the biggest political betting events, I don't think there are all that many PB regulars unaware of the political battles over Obama's expansion of Medicaid, etc."

    Well, then, why don't you correct the mistaken comments I see so often here? (I didn't name individuals who were making those mistakes, because I think that -- usually -- hinders rational discussion.)

    And here, I suspect, are three things you didn't know about "ObamaCare", as it is often called:
    1. It included a tax on "Cadillac" plans, private plans that were too generous.
    2. It resulted in the closing of rural hospitals. (If you want more details, look for an article by Anemona Hartocollis in the NYT some years ago.
    3. After it had been in effect for some years, life expectancy in the United States fell, beginning in 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Life_expectancy

    Nor is it likely that you know that George W. Bush proposed a substantial expansion of Medicare benefits, Part D, which passed. (Incidentally, that has probably had positive effects outside the United States. By increasing the expenditure for drugs here, it probably incentivized American drug companies to spend more on research.)

    I think you are really quite mad if you think that the decline in life expectancy seen in the US post 2014 is due to Obamacare. (You would also need to explain why Massachusetts did not see a similar trend shifted forward a decade, given they were first with an Obamacare type system.)
    it’s the drugs. I have written about it

    After Covid : “the second greatest contributor to the decline in life expectancy is accidental injury, driven primarily by drug overdoses, which killed over 100,000 U.S. residents last year.” (CDC Report, 2022)

    US Life Expectancy is now 76. Which is mind boggling. It is now lower than Panama, Iran or Sri Lanka
    Yes: Perdue Pharma (and others) have a lot to answer for.
    It’s not OxyContin any more tho, it is the evil Fentanyl
    I’ve seen a few documentaries on the tube of you about the impact of fentanyl. Looks horrendous the impact it’s having in some parts of the US
    The ”side effects” of Fentanyl withdrawal, and, pretty shortly, Fentanty itself (in a regular user), closely mimic schizophrenia

    it is a grotesquely nasty drug

    There is a theory floating around GOP circles that it was invented, or improved from an original US recipe, by the Chinese, who knew it would destroy American society. And they knew they could pump it over the Mex/US border via the drug cartels. Bingo: US Life Expectancy drops to 76, lower than Panama

    Bonkers? I don’t know any more. Not after Covid leaked from the lab
    That life expectancy stat is surprising and who knows how it ended up on the streets but it is there and some people are making a lot of cash on peoples misery.

    Mind you we e heard similar stories about Spice in the U.K. and Krokodil in Russia.
    Fentanyl was patented in 1960, and in widespread medical use for a half century as an anaesthetic and pain relief agent.

    Widespread illicit abuse is a more recent phenomenon, but a very serious one.
    The theory is that the Chinese discovered that 1960 recipe, worked out a way of making it extremely cheaply, and realised they could use the Mexican drug lords to pump it, intravenously, into America. A hideously addictive drug which is almost impossible to kick and which sends you mad. Perfect

    it sounds outrageous and the plot of a good but lurid thriller, but now? After everything China has actually done? After Ukraine? After Covid almost certainly leaked from a Chinese lab doing dodgy experiments, part funded by Fauci in America?

    Why not?

    I can believe it

    My dog was prescribed Fentanyl that was produced by a US pharma company. So presumably the US is also a (legal) manufacturer of it.

    I mean it might have been invented by the Chinese and then copied by the US pharma company.

    But it seems more likely the Chinese saw an opportunity to make the US drug in massive quantities.
    Belgian invention

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl#History
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function and role of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy.
    Theres a distinction here between free speech, go for it Clive, and following the whip of the party that funds you and your reelection efforts, be careful Clive.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy. The monarchy can't, and shouldn't be above criticism in this system - because if it is, it begins to take on some of the characteristics of absolute monarchy once again.
    MPs and political party’s need to swear loyalty to the crown for us to believe what they say - that’s the BIG truth here innit? Lewis statement is effectively refusing to swear that loyalty - so anyones position as an MP and party member is untenable without that commitment which he has so clearly explained he don’t and won’t ever have.

    The Tory media are about to rip Starmer and his cabinet into shreds over Lewis who is still in party and holding whip. very Bad media weeks ahead for Labour if they don’t act. This is definitely a crisis for Labour if they don’t act. Why? Because lack of action from Starmer on Lewis is the first thing all the Tory’s will press on when PMQs resume - and all Starmer will have in answer is nothing but weak weak gibberish.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    The road out of Seville is a good counter point to the loveliness of the centre. Loads and loads of almost Stalinist apartment blocks. Softened only by the beautiful sun

    This is where most Sevillanos live. They don’t have agreeable apartments in the historic core

    Quite dreary and quite poor

    Nonetheless they have done an amazing job of zhuzhing the centre
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:



    darkage said:


    Will young people ever realise that they are being screwed over by the old and do something about it? It was something I was mad about for many years, but few seemed to share my perspective.

    I am not saying that the monarchy is a particular flashpoint in this issue, but young people seem to be very complacent and apathetic. In a lot of ways they are simply being exploited by the old. Many young people are not paid enough to live on. Their rent goes to pay off someone elses mortgage. They are denied the resources and support to bring up a family. And then they are told by telegraph readers 'now its time for the young to pay for us!'.

    They don't get politically active on the whole, so all the main parties have policies that appeal mainly to old people.

    It is a very strange and potentially dangerous situation, as the democratic system seems to be failing to engage young people, which may possibly be behind the recent polling that showed young people were in favour of authoritarianism.

    There is a lot of drug taking. The young csre about its legalisation.
    Britain is still very far behind Canada, the US, and countries like portugal on the sensible and managed decriminalisation of cannabis, and reduction of the more dangerous THC elements. There also seems to be increasing evidence that microdoses of LSD benefit a very wide range of people, although no western country seems seems to have been bold enough to go there yet. We probably wouldn't benefit as much from drugs like cocaine being legal, but South and Central America certainly would.
    What controls are there on high THC cannabis in the USA and Canada? Let me answer that for you: virtually none. The pure THC waxes now available are hugely more dangerous than the classic psychedelics.

    BTW best evidence is that microdosing lsd/psilocybin is all placebo effect. Macrodosing is the way to go.
    There seems to plenty to contradict that. This article seems to suggest that the many shop vendors in New York, for instance, are following THC limits that the illegal market obviously completely ignored. That will obviously have some effect - it seems to place the blame on smaller "street and stall vendors", ironically.

    https://www.ft.com/content/b7bb36e2-eafa-4d98-a336-98030259db6a

    I'm also not at all sure about the point on LSD microdosiing ; I've read various articles of it being increasingly researched as directly beneficial.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    It is not accepted. He has always denied it. It has never been established by any court. And he made no such admission in the settlement agreement with her.

    So yes you are wrong.
  • London has a new locality: The Queue.

    image

    https://twitter.com/bbcweather/status/1571014476811620353
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    He is a disgustingly corrupt arse who has humiliated his country. Even if the p word is not technically a fit, I for one am intensely relaxed about its continued use.

    Here is your weekly reminder: He will sue OGH is a theory beloved of those uninformed as to the applicable English law. The primary target will always be the actual poster. You might get into a pissing match with rcs as to whether he is going to disclose the ID of posters, but why wouldn't he? And there are posters who are relatively easily IDed from their own posts anyway.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function and role of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy.
    Theres a distinction here between free speech, go for it Clive, and following the whip of the party that funds you and your reelection efforts, be careful Clive.
    Clive has already blown it. He’s got free speech, but he used it to say his parliamentary oath is a sham. You can hold views about transitioning the country to a republic - but you can’t rip up your parliamentary oath at this stage and remain a lawmaker and MP, can you.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    He is a disgustingly corrupt arse who has humiliated his country. Even if the p word is not technically a fit, I for one am intensely relaxed about its continued use.

    Here is your weekly reminder: He will sue OGH is a theory beloved of those uninformed as to the applicable English law. The primary target will always be the actual poster. You might get into a pissing match with rcs as to whether he is going to disclose the ID of posters, but why wouldn't he? And there are posters who are relatively easily IDed from their own posts anyway.
    Is that true? Why are newspapers the target of libel action if that is the case?
  • Tattoos eh?

    A woman has got the Queen's face tattooed onto her leg as a 'mark of respect'.

    Falon Cooper says 'she's not a royalist' but got the tattoo following the Queen's death to be 'respectful'.



    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-gets-queens-face-tattooed-25041554
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    He is a disgustingly corrupt arse who has humiliated his country. Even if the p word is not technically a fit, I for one am intensely relaxed about its continued use.

    Here is your weekly reminder: He will sue OGH is a theory beloved of those uninformed as to the applicable English law. The primary target will always be the actual poster. You might get into a pissing match with rcs as to whether he is going to disclose the ID of posters, but why wouldn't he? And there are posters who are relatively easily IDed from their own posts anyway.
    200k views on this video so far and Youtube seem quite intensely relaxed about it staying up...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFu8P7teOt8
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    The Guardian (or Sky News?) have found someone to represent all right-thinking Britons of sound mind. She says that the man who rushed towards the queen's coffin and lifted up the flag (an action described as if it were similar to taking a sh*t on the bus) pushed her young daughter out of the way. Apparently she's trying to get her in again. She describes him as a "person" as if she were using inverted commas because he's anything but.

    She doesn't see any irony in the fact that she made her daughter queue for 15 hours until 2 o'clock in the morning.

    Because it's about showing "respect" to the queen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgKwiYb5Ero
  • Sean_F said:

    thart said:

    Driver said:

    Still a plurality. And they'll grow up.

    False logic. There should be no Tory voters by now and yet… Peoples views change with age and place in society. Unless you are Jeremy Corbyn.
    Well a couple of points.
    Tories are less popular with the young than ever its the disproportionate support of the old even compared with 10 years ago that is keeping them in power
    Back in the 80s and 90s there were plenty of old labour voters..not so much now

    So the Tories have pushed things as far as they can now. The more they appease their old core vote the more disgust the young feel with them and the sharper the backlash
    I've heard it all before. Conservative voters will be outbred by the young and/or ethnic minorities, and it never happens.
    It doesn't happen because they turn more Conservative themselves as they age and, as minorities cease to be minorities, their politics converge with the mean of the population at large.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    It is not accepted. He has always denied it. It has never been established by any court. And he made no such admission in the settlement agreement with her.

    So yes you are wrong.
    Fair enough

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited September 2022

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function and role of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy.
    Theres a distinction here between free speech, go for it Clive, and following the whip of the party that funds you and your reelection efforts, be careful Clive.
    Clive has already blown it. He’s got free speech, but he used it to say his parliamentary oath is a sham. You can hold views about transitioning the country to a republic - but you can’t rip up your parliamentary oath at this stage and remain a lawmaker and MP, can you.

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function and role of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy.
    Theres a distinction here between free speech, go for it Clive, and following the whip of the party that funds you and your reelection efforts, be careful Clive.
    Clive has already blown it. He’s got free speech, but he used it to say his parliamentary oath is a sham. You can hold views about transitioning the country to a republic - but you can’t rip up your parliamentary oath at this stage and remain a lawmaker and MP, can you.
    Hmm. He hasn't renounced his oath directly, but a slightly more abstract criticism, I would say. It is a bit of a grey area, but I would still err on the side of his freedom to say it, not least for the potentially stifling effect and climate on all sorts of other types of criticism of the monarchy from parliament, again on whose freedom our constitutional set-up depends.
  • @SpeakerPelosi
    Today, I am leading a Congressional delegation to Armenia to highlight the strong commitment of the United States to security, economic prosperity, and democratic governance in Armenia and the Caucasus region.

    This delegation follows the 2019 passage of House Resolution 296, introduced by @RepAdamSchiff, which recognizes the murder of 1.5 million Armenians by the Ottoman Empire as genocide, and following @POTUS becoming the first president to formally acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.

    It is the moral duty of all to never forget: an obligation that has taken on heightened urgency as atrocities are perpetrated around the globe, including by Russia against Ukraine.

    Our Congressional delegation’s visit to Armenia is a powerful symbol of the United States’ firm commitment to a peaceful, prosperous and democratic Armenia, and a stable and secure Caucasus region.


    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1571135960267751427
  • I'm going to get one of those staffs and silently issue commands in my house by banging it twice on the kitchen floor.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930

    Tattoos eh?

    A woman has got the Queen's face tattooed onto her leg as a 'mark of respect'.

    Falon Cooper says 'she's not a royalist' but got the tattoo following the Queen's death to be 'respectful'.



    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-gets-queens-face-tattooed-25041554

    Weird as it is, that’s a pretty good tattoo.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function and role of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy.
    Theres a distinction here between free speech, go for it Clive, and following the whip of the party that funds you and your reelection efforts, be careful Clive.
    Clive has already blown it. He’s got free speech, but he used it to say his parliamentary oath is a sham. You can hold views about transitioning the country to a republic - but you can’t rip up your parliamentary oath at this stage and remain a lawmaker and MP, can you.

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function and role of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy.
    Theres a distinction here between free speech, go for it Clive, and following the whip of the party that funds you and your reelection efforts, be careful Clive.
    Clive has already blown it. He’s got free speech, but he used it to say his parliamentary oath is a sham. You can hold views about transitioning the country to a republic - but you can’t rip up your parliamentary oath at this stage and remain a lawmaker and MP, can you.
    Hmm. He hasn't renounced his oath directly, but a slightly more abstract criticism, I would say. It is a bit of a grey area, but I would still err on the side of his freedom to say it, not least for the potentially stifling effect and climate on all sorts of other types of criticism of the monarchy from parliament, again on whose freedom our constitutional set-up depends.
    Oh please.

    Clive Lewis has given us his Republican oath to Parliament. Does he believe this one,
    “The notion of the royal family as symbols of duty or sacrifice to the nation is “a lie” and is at the centre of a deeply unequal UK, a royal succession is as much about coercion as consent. monarchists have forcefully claimed that the royal family makes duty and sacrifice on our behalf, but we should not pretend that the reality is anything other than a lie. The role of Monarchy is merely as a national distraction, a spectacle exalted for exemplifying virtues that should be typical in public life and public behaviour. Casting such behaviour as exceptional allows the likes of Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and the economic elites they represent to break and exploit the rules for their own benefit and that of their very narrow class interest – of which the monarchy is an integral part.”

    or the real one.

    “I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.”

    He can’t believe both can he? He is effectively no longer under parliamentary oath. He has effectively un sworn in himself.

    Starmer has to act today.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:



    darkage said:


    Will young people ever realise that they are being screwed over by the old and do something about it? It was something I was mad about for many years, but few seemed to share my perspective.

    I am not saying that the monarchy is a particular flashpoint in this issue, but young people seem to be very complacent and apathetic. In a lot of ways they are simply being exploited by the old. Many young people are not paid enough to live on. Their rent goes to pay off someone elses mortgage. They are denied the resources and support to bring up a family. And then they are told by telegraph readers 'now its time for the young to pay for us!'.

    They don't get politically active on the whole, so all the main parties have policies that appeal mainly to old people.

    It is a very strange and potentially dangerous situation, as the democratic system seems to be failing to engage young people, which may possibly be behind the recent polling that showed young people were in favour of authoritarianism.

    There is a lot of drug taking. The young csre about its legalisation.
    Britain is still very far behind Canada, the US, and countries like portugal on the sensible and managed decriminalisation of cannabis, and reduction of the more dangerous THC elements. There also seems to be increasing evidence that microdoses of LSD benefit a very wide range of people, although no western country seems seems to have been bold enough to go there yet. We probably wouldn't benefit as much from drugs like cocaine being legal, but South and Central America certainly would.
    What controls are there on high THC cannabis in the USA and Canada? Let me answer that for you: virtually none. The pure THC waxes now available are hugely more dangerous than the classic psychedelics.

    BTW best evidence is that microdosing lsd/psilocybin is all placebo effect. Macrodosing is the way to go.
    There seems to plenty to contradict that. This article seems to suggest that the many shop vendors in New York, for instance, are following THC limits that the illegal market obviously completely ignored. That will obviously have some effect - it seems to place the blame on smaller "street and stall vendors", ironically.

    https://www.ft.com/content/b7bb36e2-eafa-4d98-a336-98030259db6a

    I'm also not at all sure about the point on LSD microdosiing ; I've read various articles of it being increasingly researched as directly beneficial.

    This is the biggie on microdosing

    https://elifesciences.org/articles/62878

    Not perfect because legality issues but if you look at the authors - Feilding, Nutt, Carhart Harris - they are all leading psychedelic fanbois, so it won't be slanted towards the null hyopothesis

    With cannabis, legalisation means de facto that the sky is the limit, because if busting people for cannabis used to be hard enough think about busting people for using overstrength cannabis.

    The increase in strength is extraordinary. Even ignoring the chemical extracts, there are strains 10x as strong as there were 30 years ago. That's the difference between beer at 4.6 ABV vs export gin at 46%, so saying I used to drink pints of the one is not much of a guide to drinking pints of the other. And the chemical extracts are equivalent to pure ethanol.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    C'mon, radical artists - make a happening in Westminster Hall.

    I think I've found a chink in the armour. The authorities would have liked to ban mobile phones in the room, but because of the phone plague hardly anyone would have attended if they weren't allowed to bring their handheld "best friend", so they haven't banned them altogether. They just say switch it off and put it in your bag or pocket if you've got one. Heheh. Wink.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKm9t20zVHw
  • Tattoos eh?

    A woman has got the Queen's face tattooed onto her leg as a 'mark of respect'.

    Falon Cooper says 'she's not a royalist' but got the tattoo following the Queen's death to be 'respectful'.



    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-gets-queens-face-tattooed-25041554

    This "I'm not a royalist but" stuff from people who are actually massively royalist is very common.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    I didn’t join the Que though I did have a look at it.

    I went shopping to make sure I have everything right for going to watch the funeral. I’ve got black tights and a knee length dress and black shoes and a hat.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    RobD said:

    Tattoos eh?

    A woman has got the Queen's face tattooed onto her leg as a 'mark of respect'.

    Falon Cooper says 'she's not a royalist' but got the tattoo following the Queen's death to be 'respectful'.



    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-gets-queens-face-tattooed-25041554

    Weird as it is, that’s a pretty good tattoo.
    It’ll look shit in 10 years though. They always do.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    He is a disgustingly corrupt arse who has humiliated his country. Even if the p word is not technically a fit, I for one am intensely relaxed about its continued use.

    Here is your weekly reminder: He will sue OGH is a theory beloved of those uninformed as to the applicable English law. The primary target will always be the actual poster. You might get into a pissing match with rcs as to whether he is going to disclose the ID of posters, but why wouldn't he? And there are posters who are relatively easily IDed from their own posts anyway.
    Is that true? Why are newspapers the target of libel action if that is the case?
    Because the stuff in them is written by people in the pay of the owner, on the whole.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Dynamo said:

    C'mon, radical artists - make a happening in Westminster Hall.

    I think I've found a chink in the armour. The authorities would have liked to ban mobile phones in the room, but because of the phone plague hardly anyone would have attended if they weren't allowed to bring their handheld "best friend", so they haven't banned them altogether. They just say switch it off and put it in your bag or pocket if you've got one. Heheh. Wink.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKm9t20zVHw

    In all the clips I’ve seen not a single person has been using one.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    .
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    To what extent is the tardiness of Germany’s supply of weapons to Ukraine related to manufacturing constraints, and limited existing stocks ?
    (They’ve certainly provided substantial financial aid, for example.)

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1571110300484792321
    The German government has approved Ukraine's request for more RCH-155 howitzers. However, the manufacturer will be able to produce them for Ukraine no earlier than the first half of 2025, reports Welt am Sonntag citing
    @MelnykAndrij and documents received from the manufacturer…


    It’s clearly not an insignificant problem in general.
    Poland, for example, just ordered several billion dollars worth of a S Korean F16 derivative light fighter (with inferior performance), because they aren’t prepared to wait years for deliveries of new F16s from the US, and the Korean jet (the FA-50) is available very quickly.

    Germany's armed forces were/are in a shockingly poor state. When the German government was shopping around for things to cut in the wake of the Global Financial Crisis and the Eurozone crisis, Merkel saw military spending and thought it was an easy place to make reductions.

    From an NYTimes article at the start of the year:

    There is a shortage of everything from protective vests to thermal underwear. Radio equipment is 30 years out of date. Only one in three warships is ready to deploy — so few that the navy worries it cannot meet all its international commitments.

    Even in Rukla, the flagship German NATO mission which has relatively few complaints when it comes to resources, the general scarcity has been felt.

    Some of the armored vehicles are five decades old. During international exercises in Lithuania, their equipment routinely made the German units “the weakest link in the chain,” soldiers reported to the parliamentary commissioner for the armed forces on their return from tours in Rukla.
    Indeed.
    But while they’re perhaps an extreme example, very similar comments could be made for most of Europe up until this year’s invasion.
    At least some of the reluctance to supply Ukraine with the more modern and potent weapons is that our own militaries are quite nervous about the effect on their own capabilities.

    Which is why Turkish and S Korean defence manufacturers are making out like bandits.
    Indeed, I remember @Dura_Ace saying that our spare self propelled artillery is in such a poor state that it is undeployable.
    Dear old @Dura_Ace told us that the NLAWS were useless rubbish and that the Ukrainians were doomed

    Hmmm
    We announced we were giving them to Ukraine back in April.
    They didn’t want them

    That’s how useful they are.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    He is a disgustingly corrupt arse who has humiliated his country. Even if the p word is not technically a fit, I for one am intensely relaxed about its continued use.

    Here is your weekly reminder: He will sue OGH is a theory beloved of those uninformed as to the applicable English law. The primary target will always be the actual poster. You might get into a pissing match with rcs as to whether he is going to disclose the ID of posters, but why wouldn't he? And there are posters who are relatively easily IDed from their own posts anyway.
    Is that true? Why are newspapers the target of libel action if that is the case?
    Because the stuff in them is written by people in the pay of the owner, on the whole.
    Is that a distinction made in law? I thought it was just references to publishers, which could be interpreted as a site owner.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I'm going to get one of those staffs and silently issue commands in my house by banging it twice on the kitchen floor.

    The soundtrack from the livestream playing in a hidden tab, is as soothing as waves breaking on a beach.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    To what extent is the tardiness of Germany’s supply of weapons to Ukraine related to manufacturing constraints, and limited existing stocks ?
    (They’ve certainly provided substantial financial aid, for example.)

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1571110300484792321
    The German government has approved Ukraine's request for more RCH-155 howitzers. However, the manufacturer will be able to produce them for Ukraine no earlier than the first half of 2025, reports Welt am Sonntag citing
    @MelnykAndrij and documents received from the manufacturer…


    It’s clearly not an insignificant problem in general.
    Poland, for example, just ordered several billion dollars worth of a S Korean F16 derivative light fighter (with inferior performance), because they aren’t prepared to wait years for deliveries of new F16s from the US, and the Korean jet (the FA-50) is available very quickly.

    Germany's armed forces were/are in a shockingly poor state. When the German government was shopping around for things to cut in the wake of the Global Financial Crisis and the Eurozone crisis, Merkel saw military spending and thought it was an easy place to make reductions.

    From an NYTimes article at the start of the year:

    There is a shortage of everything from protective vests to thermal underwear. Radio equipment is 30 years out of date. Only one in three warships is ready to deploy — so few that the navy worries it cannot meet all its international commitments.

    Even in Rukla, the flagship German NATO mission which has relatively few complaints when it comes to resources, the general scarcity has been felt.

    Some of the armored vehicles are five decades old. During international exercises in Lithuania, their equipment routinely made the German units “the weakest link in the chain,” soldiers reported to the parliamentary commissioner for the armed forces on their return from tours in Rukla.
    Indeed.
    But while they’re perhaps an extreme example, very similar comments could be made for most of Europe up until this year’s invasion.
    At least some of the reluctance to supply Ukraine with the more modern and potent weapons is that our own militaries are quite nervous about the effect on their own capabilities.

    Which is why Turkish and S Korean defence manufacturers are making out like bandits.
    Indeed, I remember @Dura_Ace saying that our spare self propelled artillery is in such a poor state that it is undeployable.
    Dear old @Dura_Ace told us that the NLAWS were useless rubbish and that the Ukrainians were doomed

    Hmmm
    We announced we were giving them to Ukraine back in April.
    They didn’t want them

    That’s how useful they are.
    I thought that they were used to great effect against Russian tanks?
  • @SpeakerPelosi
    Today, I am leading a Congressional delegation to Armenia to highlight the strong commitment of the United States to security, economic prosperity, and democratic governance in Armenia and the Caucasus region.

    This delegation follows the 2019 passage of House Resolution 296, introduced by @RepAdamSchiff, which recognizes the murder of 1.5 million Armenians by the Ottoman Empire as genocide, and following @POTUS becoming the first president to formally acknowledge the Armenian Genocide.

    It is the moral duty of all to never forget: an obligation that has taken on heightened urgency as atrocities are perpetrated around the globe, including by Russia against Ukraine.

    Our Congressional delegation’s visit to Armenia is a powerful symbol of the United States’ firm commitment to a peaceful, prosperous and democratic Armenia, and a stable and secure Caucasus region.


    https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1571135960267751427

    Given that the Russian backed Armenians got royally humped by the Turkish backed Azerbaijanis a year or so ago, the US backing Armenia (backed by Russia) against Azerbaijan (backed by NATO ally Turkey) could get remarkably messy very quickly. At least on the diplomatic front.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    He is a disgustingly corrupt arse who has humiliated his country. Even if the p word is not technically a fit, I for one am intensely relaxed about its continued use.

    Here is your weekly reminder: He will sue OGH is a theory beloved of those uninformed as to the applicable English law. The primary target will always be the actual poster. You might get into a pissing match with rcs as to whether he is going to disclose the ID of posters, but why wouldn't he? And there are posters who are relatively easily IDed from their own posts anyway.
    Is that true? Why are newspapers the target of libel action if that is the case?
    Because the stuff in them is written by people in the pay of the owner, on the whole.
    Is that a distinction made in law? I thought it was just references to publishers, which could be interpreted as a site owner.
    https://www.adlexsolicitors.co.uk/what-we-do/content-removal/internet-defamation

    Who can be liable for libellous content online?

    Obviously, whoever wrote the libellous post, blog, comment etc is primarily responsible. But others can be on the hook too. For example, a web host may be liable if it doesn’t remove such material within a reasonable time after being given notice. However, under UK law, operates of websites have a defence if they didn’t post the defamatory statement on the site – provided they react correctly to a notice of complaint from a complainant claiming that it can’t identify the person who posted the statement. For more, see removal of defamatory material from websites.
  • I didn’t join the Que though I did have a look at it.

    I went shopping to make sure I have everything right for going to watch the funeral. I’ve got black tights and a knee length dress and black shoes and a hat.

    Secretly, the whole country wishes they were in The Queue.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function and role of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy.
    Theres a distinction here between free speech, go for it Clive, and following the whip of the party that funds you and your reelection efforts, be careful Clive.
    Clive has already blown it. He’s got free speech, but he used it to say his parliamentary oath is a sham. You can hold views about transitioning the country to a republic - but you can’t rip up your parliamentary oath at this stage and remain a lawmaker and MP, can you.

    Is that gobby disgrace Clive Lewis still in Labour today? Then the Labour Party leadership is weak weak weak. It’s not illegal or wrong in our free and liberal democracy to be a Republican if you want to - but you cannot be an MP and use mourning of the queen to say monarchy as symbol of duty or sacrifice ‘a lie’ - it’s just gobby grandstanding - Labour leadership are weak if he retains party whip and party membership by end of today.

    I wouldn't agree with that. It's important to bear in mind always that the professed function and role of our constitutional monarchy is to protect democracy.
    Theres a distinction here between free speech, go for it Clive, and following the whip of the party that funds you and your reelection efforts, be careful Clive.
    Clive has already blown it. He’s got free speech, but he used it to say his parliamentary oath is a sham. You can hold views about transitioning the country to a republic - but you can’t rip up your parliamentary oath at this stage and remain a lawmaker and MP, can you.
    Hmm. He hasn't renounced his oath directly, but a slightly more abstract criticism, I would say. It is a bit of a grey area, but I would still err on the side of his freedom to say it, not least for the potentially stifling effect and climate on all sorts of other types of criticism of the monarchy from parliament, again on whose freedom our constitutional set-up depends.
    Labour being republicans and Conservative Party the loyalists is about to become a huge huge political story. It has potential to prevent Labour winning back the voters they need. Mark my words, because you obviously can’t see it like I seeing it, and relate this huge dividing line Labour are going to let their opponents have fun with to Labour losing key voters.

    To fair, I flagged up Truss handing initiative and fun time to her opponents by not doing windfall tax as sensible as Mrs T, I am now flagging up how Starmer is handing Tory’s initiative and play time over Lewis.
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    To what extent is the tardiness of Germany’s supply of weapons to Ukraine related to manufacturing constraints, and limited existing stocks ?
    (They’ve certainly provided substantial financial aid, for example.)

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1571110300484792321
    The German government has approved Ukraine's request for more RCH-155 howitzers. However, the manufacturer will be able to produce them for Ukraine no earlier than the first half of 2025, reports Welt am Sonntag citing
    @MelnykAndrij and documents received from the manufacturer…


    It’s clearly not an insignificant problem in general.
    Poland, for example, just ordered several billion dollars worth of a S Korean F16 derivative light fighter (with inferior performance), because they aren’t prepared to wait years for deliveries of new F16s from the US, and the Korean jet (the FA-50) is available very quickly.

    Germany's armed forces were/are in a shockingly poor state. When the German government was shopping around for things to cut in the wake of the Global Financial Crisis and the Eurozone crisis, Merkel saw military spending and thought it was an easy place to make reductions.

    From an NYTimes article at the start of the year:

    There is a shortage of everything from protective vests to thermal underwear. Radio equipment is 30 years out of date. Only one in three warships is ready to deploy — so few that the navy worries it cannot meet all its international commitments.

    Even in Rukla, the flagship German NATO mission which has relatively few complaints when it comes to resources, the general scarcity has been felt.

    Some of the armored vehicles are five decades old. During international exercises in Lithuania, their equipment routinely made the German units “the weakest link in the chain,” soldiers reported to the parliamentary commissioner for the armed forces on their return from tours in Rukla.
    Indeed.
    But while they’re perhaps an extreme example, very similar comments could be made for most of Europe up until this year’s invasion.
    At least some of the reluctance to supply Ukraine with the more modern and potent weapons is that our own militaries are quite nervous about the effect on their own capabilities.

    Which is why Turkish and S Korean defence manufacturers are making out like bandits.
    Indeed, I remember @Dura_Ace saying that our spare self propelled artillery is in such a poor state that it is undeployable.
    Dear old @Dura_Ace told us that the NLAWS were useless rubbish and that the Ukrainians were doomed

    Hmmm
    We announced we were giving them to Ukraine back in April.
    They didn’t want them

    That’s how useful they are.
    You what? Here's a Ukrainian soldier in early March saying they destroyed Russian tanks "thanks to the gifts from Her Majesty the Queen". The UK sent large quantities before Russia invaded.

    https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1501347099748802568
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    Dynamo said:

    C'mon, radical artists - make a happening in Westminster Hall.

    I think I've found a chink in the armour. The authorities would have liked to ban mobile phones in the room, but because of the phone plague hardly anyone would have attended if they weren't allowed to bring their handheld "best friend", so they haven't banned them altogether. They just say switch it off and put it in your bag or pocket if you've got one. Heheh. Wink.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKm9t20zVHw

    Regardless of your views of the monarchy, a 96 year old mother and grandmother who served her country during WWII up to the present day has died. People want to pay their respects to her, and that should be respected.

    Being edgy and disrupting that for shits and giggles is the opposite of being respectful, both of the Queen's life, and of other people's beliefs. It's also very much the opposite of what being British is all about. Not that you would know, posting from Moscow.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Chinese looking mother and daughter, 3 synchronised bows while holding hands while a black man behind them does the sign of the cross
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    He is a disgustingly corrupt arse who has humiliated his country. Even if the p word is not technically a fit, I for one am intensely relaxed about its continued use.

    Here is your weekly reminder: He will sue OGH is a theory beloved of those uninformed as to the applicable English law. The primary target will always be the actual poster. You might get into a pissing match with rcs as to whether he is going to disclose the ID of posters, but why wouldn't he? And there are posters who are relatively easily IDed from their own posts anyway.
    Is that true? Why are newspapers the target of libel action if that is the case?
    Because the stuff in them is written by people in the pay of the owner, on the whole.
    Is that a distinction made in law? I thought it was just references to publishers, which could be interpreted as a site owner.
    https://www.adlexsolicitors.co.uk/what-we-do/content-removal/internet-defamation

    Who can be liable for libellous content online?

    Obviously, whoever wrote the libellous post, blog, comment etc is primarily responsible. But others can be on the hook too. For example, a web host may be liable if it doesn’t remove such material within a reasonable time after being given notice. However, under UK law, operates of websites have a defence if they didn’t post the defamatory statement on the site – provided they react correctly to a notice of complaint from a complainant claiming that it can’t identify the person who posted the statement. For more, see removal of defamatory material from websites.
    Thanks. So the current policy of not allowing libellous statements seems sensible. It sounds difficult to prove that you cannot identify who made the comment, so they’d end up on the hook anyway.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,670

    RobD said:

    Tattoos eh?

    A woman has got the Queen's face tattooed onto her leg as a 'mark of respect'.

    Falon Cooper says 'she's not a royalist' but got the tattoo following the Queen's death to be 'respectful'.



    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-gets-queens-face-tattooed-25041554

    Weird as it is, that’s a pretty good tattoo.
    It’ll look shit in 10 years though. They always do.
    Any PBers have one? I briefly considered one to cover up a surgical scar, but I think there is a chance they'll have to dig around in there again in the future.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Unpopular as this might be to say, there are statements made (on here let alone elsewhere) about Prince Andrew which are completely untethered to any of the known facts about his friendship with Epstein, the allegations made by Virginia Roberts and the investigations by the US authorities.

    Being critical about his judgment and general behaviour is one thing but stating that he is a paedophile is defamatory. And such statements are not justified just because he is unlikely to sue OGH.

    It’s accepted that he had sex with Giuffre when she was under 18?

    In many - most? - US states I believe that counts as underage and therefore technically “pedophile” - tho of course the medical definition of this is much more restrictive and refers to attraction to pre pubescent children

    So by legal standards in parts of the USA Andrew is the P word. But I am happy to be schooled by lawyers if I am wrong
    He is a disgustingly corrupt arse who has humiliated his country. Even if the p word is not technically a fit, I for one am intensely relaxed about its continued use.

    Here is your weekly reminder: He will sue OGH is a theory beloved of those uninformed as to the applicable English law. The primary target will always be the actual poster. You might get into a pissing match with rcs as to whether he is going to disclose the ID of posters, but why wouldn't he? And there are posters who are relatively easily IDed from their own posts anyway.
    Is that true? Why are newspapers the target of libel action if that is the case?
    Because the stuff in them is written by people in the pay of the owner, on the whole.
    Is that a distinction made in law? I thought it was just references to publishers, which could be interpreted as a site owner.
    https://www.adlexsolicitors.co.uk/what-we-do/content-removal/internet-defamation

    Who can be liable for libellous content online?

    Obviously, whoever wrote the libellous post, blog, comment etc is primarily responsible. But others can be on the hook too. For example, a web host may be liable if it doesn’t remove such material within a reasonable time after being given notice. However, under UK law, operates of websites have a defence if they didn’t post the defamatory statement on the site – provided they react correctly to a notice of complaint from a complainant claiming that it can’t identify the person who posted the statement. For more, see removal of defamatory material from websites.
    Thanks. So the current policy of not allowing libellous statements seems sensible. It sounds difficult to prove that you cannot identify who made the comment, so they’d end up on the hook anyway.
    Well, no, because the easy and sensible response from the website owner is: You say you can't identify them? This validated email address may solve your problem for you. So, yes, avoiding defamation is desirable for all sorts of reasons, but You are going to bankrupt OGH is not one of them.


  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    Eabhal said:

    RobD said:

    Tattoos eh?

    A woman has got the Queen's face tattooed onto her leg as a 'mark of respect'.

    Falon Cooper says 'she's not a royalist' but got the tattoo following the Queen's death to be 'respectful'.



    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-gets-queens-face-tattooed-25041554

    Weird as it is, that’s a pretty good tattoo.
    It’ll look shit in 10 years though. They always do.
    Any PBers have one? I briefly considered one to cover up a surgical scar, but I think there is a chance they'll have to dig around in there again in the future.
    Not got one.

    Never been tempted either but in years to come they will fade, droop and look awful.
This discussion has been closed.