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What an extraordinary first week for PM Truss – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,972

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Queue is 2.9 miles long, up half a mile from earlier in the evening. I'd have thought it would get shorter overnight but apparently not; perhaps too many had the same idea.

    The BBC's livestream showed only a handful passing the coffin, and a few seconds ago switched to an outside view. Have they stopped letting people in?

    Queue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NpZuGxSgZY
    Coffin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/l00566tz/hm-the-queen-lyinginstate

    OK, people are moving past the coffin again.
    How do those guards standing there stock still do it? How long is each shift?
    Six hours, I heard yesterday.
    And, as I then predicted to my mother, one apparently collapsed.

    (Edit) Here you are.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/royal-westminster-hall-tower-of-london-b2167577.html?amp
    While the soldiers rotate every 20 minutes, the hours of remaining completely still while standing are six-hours in length.

    Wrong. The watches are six hours and the officers are rotated every 20 minutes.
    Right, surely? Both “6 hours” (the watch) and “20 minutes” (the vigil at the coffin) are correct - they just refer to different things. No one is standing stock still by the coffin for 6 hours.
    Yes. It sounded like someone was suggesting ("how could they do that") they were standing still for six hours.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,817
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ben Judah in UnHerd

    "Queen Elizabeth’s death marks the latest step away from divinely ordained monarchy, towards something else. No longer sacred, the European monarch would rather be a pilot, or a country gentleman interested in urban planning. Another step along the path we have travelled since the laying of hands on His Majesty to cure disease was suspended after Queen Anne. It is no longer possible to suspend disbelief. The magic — or rather the mindset — was gone. There have been tears for the Queen this week, but can we imagine the same for Prince William decades from now?"

    https://unherd.com/2022/09/divine-monarchy-is-finished/

    The monarch will always be divinely ordained, whatever liberal intellectuals may wish
    Alternatively, you will always believe in fairies, and the Tory party.
    There's also the slight problem that, *on the monarchy's own evidence*, it supports two different religions, or at least two very different varieties of non-RC Christianity, one north and the other south of the border. The English variety of Catholic episcopalianism, subordinating Church to State, is completely incompatible with Calvinist Presbyterianism. As indeed the history of the High Kirk of St Giles reminds us.
    IIRC the modern CoE philosophy concerning other versions of Christianity is that while the CoE is right, the others aren’t wrong, in any serious sense. According to that view, supporting other versions is just being really tolerant.

    So it’s cups of tea rather than involuntary cremation on the menu.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,741
    TOPPING said:

    Eabhal said:

    The Queue is 2.9 miles long, up half a mile from earlier in the evening. I'd have thought it would get shorter overnight but apparently not; perhaps too many had the same idea.

    The BBC's livestream showed only a handful passing the coffin, and a few seconds ago switched to an outside view. Have they stopped letting people in?

    Queue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NpZuGxSgZY
    Coffin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/l00566tz/hm-the-queen-lyinginstate

    OK, people are moving past the coffin again.
    How do those guards standing there stock still do it? How long is each shift?
    @TOPPING will know more than me but you can rock on your feet, scrunch your toes. You can see some of the Guards officers doing this.
    Yep all of those things. But 20 minutes is not very long at all relatively.
    US 3rd Infantry "Tomb Guard" platoon at Arlington do one hour stints motionless which must be fucking horrendous. Expect punishment if your walk from the tomb when relieved doesn't take exactly 21 seconds.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ben Judah in UnHerd

    "Queen Elizabeth’s death marks the latest step away from divinely ordained monarchy, towards something else. No longer sacred, the European monarch would rather be a pilot, or a country gentleman interested in urban planning. Another step along the path we have travelled since the laying of hands on His Majesty to cure disease was suspended after Queen Anne. It is no longer possible to suspend disbelief. The magic — or rather the mindset — was gone. There have been tears for the Queen this week, but can we imagine the same for Prince William decades from now?"

    https://unherd.com/2022/09/divine-monarchy-is-finished/

    The monarch will always be divinely ordained, whatever liberal intellectuals may wish
    Alternatively, you will always believe in fairies, and the Tory party.
    There's also the slight problem that, *on the monarchy's own evidence*, it supports two different religions, or at least two very different varieties of non-RC Christianity, one north and the other south of the border. The English variety of Catholic episcopalianism, subordinating Church to State, is completely incompatible with Calvinist Presbyterianism. As indeed the history of the High Kirk of St Giles reminds us.
    IIRC the modern CoE philosophy concerning other versions of Christianity is that while the CoE is right, the others aren’t wrong, in any serious sense. According to that view, supporting other versions is just being really tolerant.

    So it’s cups of tea rather than involuntary cremation on the menu.
    Quite, and the C of S (National but not Established) is also fairly ecumenical. But it does show a certain convenient absence of logic.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,901
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Eabhal said:

    The Queue is 2.9 miles long, up half a mile from earlier in the evening. I'd have thought it would get shorter overnight but apparently not; perhaps too many had the same idea.

    The BBC's livestream showed only a handful passing the coffin, and a few seconds ago switched to an outside view. Have they stopped letting people in?

    Queue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NpZuGxSgZY
    Coffin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/l00566tz/hm-the-queen-lyinginstate

    OK, people are moving past the coffin again.
    How do those guards standing there stock still do it? How long is each shift?
    @TOPPING will know more than me but you can rock on your feet, scrunch your toes. You can see some of the Guards officers doing this.
    Yep all of those things. But 20 minutes is not very long at all relatively.
    US 3rd Infantry "Tomb Guard" platoon at Arlington do one hour stints motionless which must be fucking horrendous. Expect punishment if your walk from the tomb when relieved doesn't take exactly 21 seconds.
    There are easier ways to earn a living. And probably more useful.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Good luck with the length, duration etc.
  • ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    Good morning

    I heard that report as well and it is astonishing that Morrisons apparently have a 7 billion debt

    Shop anywhere but Morrisons would be the message

    5live also discussed Kwarteng's proposal to abolish city bonuses and it really does make you wonder if the conservative party have lost all it's instincts to govern

    It may be the right thing from a business sense, but the optics are shocking and hands yet another gift to labour

    It is the right thing from city workers sense. It is a bad thing for shareholders and really bad for government and taxpayers who will eventually have to fund another bailout with years of austerity.
  • rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ben Judah in UnHerd

    "Queen Elizabeth’s death marks the latest step away from divinely ordained monarchy, towards something else. No longer sacred, the European monarch would rather be a pilot, or a country gentleman interested in urban planning. Another step along the path we have travelled since the laying of hands on His Majesty to cure disease was suspended after Queen Anne. It is no longer possible to suspend disbelief. The magic — or rather the mindset — was gone. There have been tears for the Queen this week, but can we imagine the same for Prince William decades from now?"

    https://unherd.com/2022/09/divine-monarchy-is-finished/

    The monarch will always be divinely ordained, whatever liberal intellectuals may wish
    Nobody's believed in the divine right of monarchs for centuries.

    Satirical sock puppets may pretend to.
    God believes in it as he gives it and that is all that matters on that
    The Flying Spaghetti Monster (All Hail His Noodley Appendage) would beg to differ.
    Have you not heard of the Pastafarian Right of Kings?
    The Ceremony of the Grating?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,337
    edited September 2022

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    I am pleased to hear that and hope it helps to give you some closure
  • rcs1000 said:

    Yaroslav Trofimov
    @yarotrof

    For the first time, a video emerges of a recruitment talk for Wagner by Prigozhin in a Russian prison camp. Absolutely bonkers. “Nobody goes back behind bars. If you serve six months, you are free. If you arrive in Ukraine and decide it’s not for you, we execute you.”

    https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1570098272349421570

    And we worry about the impact of the bonus cap on incentives!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,972

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Great to hear. Don't forget to wear your PB badge.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,749
    edited September 2022
    I thought the Friday was a bit dull.
    Monday, elected leader
    Tuesday kiss hand in Balmoral and appoint cabinet
    Wednesday first PMQs
    Thursday launch massive energy policy and Queen dies.
    Friday, utter tedium really.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,901

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Good luck. Hope the weather is kind and that the queue keeps moving.
  • Jonathan said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Eabhal said:

    The Queue is 2.9 miles long, up half a mile from earlier in the evening. I'd have thought it would get shorter overnight but apparently not; perhaps too many had the same idea.

    The BBC's livestream showed only a handful passing the coffin, and a few seconds ago switched to an outside view. Have they stopped letting people in?

    Queue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NpZuGxSgZY
    Coffin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/l00566tz/hm-the-queen-lyinginstate

    OK, people are moving past the coffin again.
    How do those guards standing there stock still do it? How long is each shift?
    @TOPPING will know more than me but you can rock on your feet, scrunch your toes. You can see some of the Guards officers doing this.
    Yep all of those things. But 20 minutes is not very long at all relatively.
    US 3rd Infantry "Tomb Guard" platoon at Arlington do one hour stints motionless which must be fucking horrendous. Expect punishment if your walk from the tomb when relieved doesn't take exactly 21 seconds.
    There are easier ways to earn a living. And probably more useful.
    The India Pakistan border soldiers doing their Monty Python silly walks looks much more fun. Not more useful, of course.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,972
    Jonathan said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Eabhal said:

    The Queue is 2.9 miles long, up half a mile from earlier in the evening. I'd have thought it would get shorter overnight but apparently not; perhaps too many had the same idea.

    The BBC's livestream showed only a handful passing the coffin, and a few seconds ago switched to an outside view. Have they stopped letting people in?

    Queue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NpZuGxSgZY
    Coffin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/l00566tz/hm-the-queen-lyinginstate

    OK, people are moving past the coffin again.
    How do those guards standing there stock still do it? How long is each shift?
    @TOPPING will know more than me but you can rock on your feet, scrunch your toes. You can see some of the Guards officers doing this.
    Yep all of those things. But 20 minutes is not very long at all relatively.
    US 3rd Infantry "Tomb Guard" platoon at Arlington do one hour stints motionless which must be fucking horrendous. Expect punishment if your walk from the tomb when relieved doesn't take exactly 21 seconds.
    There are easier ways to earn a living. And probably more useful.
    The bearer party from the Queen's Company flew in from Iraq to take part yesterday. We can all agree or disagree on the merits of still being in Iraq but for a soldier I can't see how that is not useful.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704
    All this reminds me of the story of the Gurkhas who had little relief at the vigil for KGV (presumably because there were so few of them).

    https://www.gurkhabde.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Kukri_2011.pdf

    This led to a Kipling short story, which on further checking seems to have been quite a rejig, with some interesting undercurrents:

    https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/readers-guide/rg_inpresence1.htm
  • Nigelb said:

    One for @Dura_Ace
    Note the scooter at the end. :smile:

    This is a cyclist using his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics to gain a competitive advantage

    Michael Guerra unclips from his pedals, lies down on the seat and stretches out his legs to achieve ultimate aerodynamic efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1569865146494746624

    I suspect he had a motor - I don’t see how he would have maintained momentum for that distance
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,965

    ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    Good morning

    I heard that report as well and it is astonishing that Morrisons apparently have a 7 billion debt

    Shop anywhere but Morrisons would be the message

    5live also discussed Kwarteng's proposal to abolish city bonuses and it really does make you wonder if the conservative party have lost all it's instincts to govern

    It may be the right thing from a business sense, but the optics are shocking and hands yet another gift to labour

    It is the right thing from city workers sense. It is a bad thing for shareholders and really bad for government and taxpayers who will eventually have to fund another bailout with years of austerity.
    I'm curious about this idea that bankers bonuses caused the subprime mortgage crisis.

    I am even more curious about the idea that there will ever be another bank bailout.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,749
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Great to hear. Don't forget to wear your PB badge.
    We get badges????
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704

    Nigelb said:

    One for @Dura_Ace
    Note the scooter at the end. :smile:

    This is a cyclist using his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics to gain a competitive advantage

    Michael Guerra unclips from his pedals, lies down on the seat and stretches out his legs to achieve ultimate aerodynamic efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1569865146494746624

    I suspect he had a motor - I don’t see how he would have maintained momentum for that distance
    Downhill?

    There's a mobility scooter as well, but the chap doesn't do the same, unsurprisingly.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,495

    Quick recap of the big UK fireball last night:
    – videos show it lasted at least ~20s.
    – several eyewitnesses reported (via AMS system) booms/rumbles in the minute or so after.
    – not clear yet whether it was natural or debris (@UKMeteorNetwork experts working on that now).


    https://twitter.com/willgater/status/1570297320926756868

    Somebody posted on here that they had seen a meteor. I thought at the time that's it was an odd thing to post, given you van see a meteor in the country on most clear nights if you wait a while.

    Now I understand why he/she was moved to post about it. A memorable sight, no doubt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,411

    Nigelb said:

    One for @Dura_Ace
    Note the scooter at the end. :smile:

    This is a cyclist using his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics to gain a competitive advantage

    Michael Guerra unclips from his pedals, lies down on the seat and stretches out his legs to achieve ultimate aerodynamic efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1569865146494746624

    I suspect he had a motor - I don’t see how he would have maintained momentum for that distance
    It is quite an old video - made in 2011 I believe. I think it's showing a downhill section.

    But given it was clearly staged, it's possible he did have 'assistance.'
  • Looks like Theresa May queued. Respect to her if so.

    She may have done but it was said that direct access will be available to various dignitaries to visit without queuing
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704

    Quick recap of the big UK fireball last night:
    – videos show it lasted at least ~20s.
    – several eyewitnesses reported (via AMS system) booms/rumbles in the minute or so after.
    – not clear yet whether it was natural or debris (@UKMeteorNetwork experts working on that now).


    https://twitter.com/willgater/status/1570297320926756868

    Somebody posted on here that they had seen a meteor. I thought at the time that's it was an odd thing to post, given you van see a meteor in the country on most clear nights if you wait a while.

    Now I understand why he/she was moved to post about it. A memorable sight, no doubt.
    And sound. We heard it indoors.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,853
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    One for @Dura_Ace
    Note the scooter at the end. :smile:

    This is a cyclist using his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics to gain a competitive advantage

    Michael Guerra unclips from his pedals, lies down on the seat and stretches out his legs to achieve ultimate aerodynamic efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1569865146494746624

    I suspect he had a motor - I don’t see how he would have maintained momentum for that distance
    It is quite an old video - made in 2011 I believe. I think it's showing a downhill section.

    But given it was clearly staged, it's possible he did have 'assistance.'
    I'm inclined to agree...
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,460
    Carnyx said:

    Quick recap of the big UK fireball last night:
    – videos show it lasted at least ~20s.
    – several eyewitnesses reported (via AMS system) booms/rumbles in the minute or so after.
    – not clear yet whether it was natural or debris (@UKMeteorNetwork experts working on that now).


    https://twitter.com/willgater/status/1570297320926756868

    Somebody posted on here that they had seen a meteor. I thought at the time that's it was an odd thing to post, given you van see a meteor in the country on most clear nights if you wait a while.

    Now I understand why he/she was moved to post about it. A memorable sight, no doubt.
    And sound. We heard it indoors.
    Don't show the images to Leon. Please.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,972
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Great to hear. Don't forget to wear your PB badge.
    We get badges????
    Huh? They are in the same envelope as the cheque.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 1,515

    nico679 said:

    Surely Kwarteng wouldn’t be that stupid . In the middle of a cost of living crisis and people struggling he’d think removing the cap is a good look ! The general public don’t give a fig about the City of London’s global competitiveness .

    We’ve got a hardline libertarian government. They are that stupid.
    If only they *were* libertarian, but in fact they are just confused: they claim to be instinctively low tax (spoiler alert, they are imposing near historically high levels of tax) and but demand high activist policies at the same time. Classic "cakeism".

    So we get the worst of all worlds: lousy, high-cost public services, crappy infrastructure and insane red tape.

    UK PLC is in deep, deep shit. Competitiveness and productivity, never great, are increasingly terrible. The backward looking Tories are actually taking us back into the past: roughly 1973, only without the padding the economy had then. Even despite their own problems, UK competitors are pulling away.
  • tlg86 said:

    ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    Good morning

    I heard that report as well and it is astonishing that Morrisons apparently have a 7 billion debt

    Shop anywhere but Morrisons would be the message

    5live also discussed Kwarteng's proposal to abolish city bonuses and it really does make you wonder if the conservative party have lost all it's instincts to govern

    It may be the right thing from a business sense, but the optics are shocking and hands yet another gift to labour

    It is the right thing from city workers sense. It is a bad thing for shareholders and really bad for government and taxpayers who will eventually have to fund another bailout with years of austerity.
    I'm curious about this idea that bankers bonuses caused the subprime mortgage crisis.

    I am even more curious about the idea that there will ever be another bank bailout.
    How much money did the government lose in the bailout?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Great to hear. Don't forget to wear your PB badge.
    We get badges????
    Huh? They are in the same envelope as the cheque.
    We get cheques from OGH??
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,972
    Radio says from the end of the queue (London Bridge) to Westminster is 12-13 hours.

    Perhaps the "24 hours" was expectation management.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,877
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    One for @Dura_Ace
    Note the scooter at the end. :smile:

    This is a cyclist using his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics to gain a competitive advantage

    Michael Guerra unclips from his pedals, lies down on the seat and stretches out his legs to achieve ultimate aerodynamic efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1569865146494746624

    I suspect he had a motor - I don’t see how he would have maintained momentum for that distance
    It is quite an old video - made in 2011 I believe. I think it's showing a downhill section.

    But given it was clearly staged, it's possible he did have 'assistance.'
    Don’t pedal your fake news around here.

  • Taxpayer subsidies to support energy companies
    Tax cuts that deliver huge sums to wealthy individuals and businesses
    Both funded by borrowing
    An end to limits on bankers' bonuses

    The Tories are making very clear whose side they are on.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,972
    Meanwhile I'd like to see the Chris Kaba bodycam footage.

    There is that, and the testimony of those involved - it should be like VAR for the IOPC and they should have a judgement within days, surely.
  • Looks like Theresa May queued. Respect to her if so.

    I think politicians and VIPs* - like foreign heads of state/government join the queue near its end.

    *Unlikely to include Oprah.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704

    Carnyx said:

    Quick recap of the big UK fireball last night:
    – videos show it lasted at least ~20s.
    – several eyewitnesses reported (via AMS system) booms/rumbles in the minute or so after.
    – not clear yet whether it was natural or debris (@UKMeteorNetwork experts working on that now).


    https://twitter.com/willgater/status/1570297320926756868

    Somebody posted on here that they had seen a meteor. I thought at the time that's it was an odd thing to post, given you van see a meteor in the country on most clear nights if you wait a while.

    Now I understand why he/she was moved to post about it. A memorable sight, no doubt.
    And sound. We heard it indoors.
    Don't show the images to Leon. Please.
    I didn't tell him I once saw an UFO when waiting at the bus stop at 7 am on a winter morning - seemed to be flaming retrorockets over the hills. But it was not accompanied by a Harrier, and it was obviously a small bolide. Nice treat though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,853
    How many of these stories now coming out about Trump did the media sit on while he was president ?

    Trump once offered "a great deal" to Jordan’s King Abdullah: control of the West Bank. Abdullah did not want it. “I thought I was having a heart attack,” he recalled to an American friend. @azi on "THE DIVIDER: Trump in the White House, 2017-2021"
    https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1570165504207364097

    And was this to have been before or after he bought Greenland* ?

    *There's a story going round that he was only interested in that because he didn't understand the Mercator projection.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,749
    tlg86 said:

    ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    Good morning

    I heard that report as well and it is astonishing that Morrisons apparently have a 7 billion debt

    Shop anywhere but Morrisons would be the message

    5live also discussed Kwarteng's proposal to abolish city bonuses and it really does make you wonder if the conservative party have lost all it's instincts to govern

    It may be the right thing from a business sense, but the optics are shocking and hands yet another gift to labour

    It is the right thing from city workers sense. It is a bad thing for shareholders and really bad for government and taxpayers who will eventually have to fund another bailout with years of austerity.
    I'm curious about this idea that bankers bonuses caused the subprime mortgage crisis.

    I am even more curious about the idea that there will ever be another bank bailout.
    One of my favourite stories about the madness of those times was in a staid old Halifax branch. Every Saturday, at the close of business the Manager got all the staff together and presented a turnip to the one who had sold the least financial products that day. You did not want to get the turnip 2 weeks in a row.
  • Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Good luck with the length, duration etc.
    Thanks. I think the queue will be much longer tonight but I hope to get through by 3am so I can at least get 4 hours of sleep. Have to work tomorrow too.

    I've booked a Premier Inn a few hundred yards away in Waterloo
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,411
    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    One for @Dura_Ace
    Note the scooter at the end. :smile:

    This is a cyclist using his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics to gain a competitive advantage

    Michael Guerra unclips from his pedals, lies down on the seat and stretches out his legs to achieve ultimate aerodynamic efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1569865146494746624

    I suspect he had a motor - I don’t see how he would have maintained momentum for that distance
    It is quite an old video - made in 2011 I believe. I think it's showing a downhill section.

    But given it was clearly staged, it's possible he did have 'assistance.'
    Don’t pedal your fake news around here.
    Sorry I spoke.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,587
    Very interesting thread on how lying from top to bottom of the Russian military has caused serious problems.

    1/ Did a culture of institutionalised lying contribute to Russia's recent disaster east of Kharkiv, by giving its senior commanders a distorted and false picture of the true situation on the ground? A 🧵 reviewing the evidence.
    https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1570169288849326082
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,876
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    One for @Dura_Ace
    Note the scooter at the end. :smile:

    This is a cyclist using his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics to gain a competitive advantage

    Michael Guerra unclips from his pedals, lies down on the seat and stretches out his legs to achieve ultimate aerodynamic efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1569865146494746624

    I suspect he had a motor - I don’t see how he would have maintained momentum for that distance
    It is quite an old video - made in 2011 I believe. I think it's showing a downhill section.

    But given it was clearly staged, it's possible he did have 'assistance.'
    Don’t pedal your fake news around here.
    Sorry I spoke.
    We've all been taken for a ride?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,128
    edited September 2022
    ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    I don't think that's it. ASDA also have a gigantic debt after being bought out in 2020 - approx £4 billion vs £6 billion. Financial engineers maximising profit?

    ASDA just had their credit rating cut to BB-minus because of heavy debt.
    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-11204317/Ratings-agency-Fitch-sounds-alarm-Asdas-growing-debts.html

    Here ASDA & Morrisons are my two closest superstores, and the difference is that ASDA are quite stripped out with very limited personal service fresh produce, and Morrisons have their own butcher, big delicatessen, wet fish counter and so on. Plus a wider product range.

    I'm not sure where Morrisons will go market wise - I shop there for fresh produce especially fish and the service, plus some niche products. I'm only in ASDA about once a year - mainly for drinks at Christmas.
  • Jonathan said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Eabhal said:

    The Queue is 2.9 miles long, up half a mile from earlier in the evening. I'd have thought it would get shorter overnight but apparently not; perhaps too many had the same idea.

    The BBC's livestream showed only a handful passing the coffin, and a few seconds ago switched to an outside view. Have they stopped letting people in?

    Queue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NpZuGxSgZY
    Coffin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/l00566tz/hm-the-queen-lyinginstate

    OK, people are moving past the coffin again.
    How do those guards standing there stock still do it? How long is each shift?
    @TOPPING will know more than me but you can rock on your feet, scrunch your toes. You can see some of the Guards officers doing this.
    Yep all of those things. But 20 minutes is not very long at all relatively.
    US 3rd Infantry "Tomb Guard" platoon at Arlington do one hour stints motionless which must be fucking horrendous. Expect punishment if your walk from the tomb when relieved doesn't take exactly 21 seconds.
    There are easier ways to earn a living. And probably more useful.
    The India Pakistan border soldiers doing their Monty Python silly walks looks much more fun. Not more useful, of course.
    Ceremonial guard duty in Athens, surely. Nicer, safer place, sillier uniforms and their march is just *hilarious*.
  • From a financial perspective, it's boom time in the UK for the wealthy metropolitan elite and citizens of nowhere. Red Wall Leave voters are handing them one hell of a bung.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,933
    ...
    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile I'd like to see the Chris Kaba bodycam footage.

    There is that, and the testimony of those involved - it should be like VAR for the IOPC and they should have a judgement within days, surely.

    The Police Federation are apoplectic with rage at the suspension. A quick judgement and reinstatement would contain their anger.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,853
    Overview of Russian equipment losses added on 14/09/2022

    Today's list is only slightly less crazy with 82 entries

    https://twitter.com/Rebel44CZ/status/1570188892514488325

    (Today's total for Ukraine - 8.)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,876
    edited September 2022
    Nigelb said:

    How many of these stories now coming out about Trump did the media sit on while he was president ?

    Trump once offered "a great deal" to Jordan’s King Abdullah: control of the West Bank. Abdullah did not want it. “I thought I was having a heart attack,” he recalled to an American friend. @azi on "THE DIVIDER: Trump in the White House, 2017-2021"
    https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1570165504207364097

    And was this to have been before or after he bought Greenland* ?

    *There's a story going round that he was only interested in that because he didn't understand the Mercator projection.

    Probably thought it was the pointy bit at the bottom? He must have been really pissed about how gigantic Canada looked compared to the States, too.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,901

    From a financial perspective, it's boom time in the UK for the wealthy metropolitan elite and citizens of nowhere. Red Wall Leave voters are handing them one hell of a bung.

    Bizarre politics. Hard to tell whether it is favours for favours or they genuinely believe in a kleptocracy.
  • tlg86 said:

    ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    Good morning

    I heard that report as well and it is astonishing that Morrisons apparently have a 7 billion debt

    Shop anywhere but Morrisons would be the message

    5live also discussed Kwarteng's proposal to abolish city bonuses and it really does make you wonder if the conservative party have lost all it's instincts to govern

    It may be the right thing from a business sense, but the optics are shocking and hands yet another gift to labour

    It is the right thing from city workers sense. It is a bad thing for shareholders and really bad for government and taxpayers who will eventually have to fund another bailout with years of austerity.
    I'm curious about this idea that bankers bonuses caused the subprime mortgage crisis.

    I am even more curious about the idea that there will ever be another bank bailout.
    Extreme bankers bonuses create incentives for bankers to gamble with the banks money. If they win, fantastic, if they lose its not their money and as long as you can talk the talk and know some of the right people, it is still easy to get another job.

    That culture feeds through to the banks to gamble, notionally with their money, but knowing they have a government funded back stop as they are too big to fail.

    Take away the controls and regulation and sooner or later we shall be back to bail outs.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    edited September 2022

    Looks like Theresa May queued. Respect to her if so.

    I think politicians and VIPs* - like foreign heads of state/government join the queue near its end.

    *Unlikely to include Oprah.
    Anyone with a full Commons pass can just go in.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,337
    edited September 2022
    Jonathan said:

    From a financial perspective, it's boom time in the UK for the wealthy metropolitan elite and citizens of nowhere. Red Wall Leave voters are handing them one hell of a bung.

    Bizarre politics. Hard to tell whether it is favours for favours or they genuinely believe in a kleptocracy.
    Whatever it is it is not the way to win hearts and minds
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,411
    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    One for @Dura_Ace
    Note the scooter at the end. :smile:

    This is a cyclist using his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics to gain a competitive advantage

    Michael Guerra unclips from his pedals, lies down on the seat and stretches out his legs to achieve ultimate aerodynamic efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1569865146494746624

    I suspect he had a motor - I don’t see how he would have maintained momentum for that distance
    It is quite an old video - made in 2011 I believe. I think it's showing a downhill section.

    But given it was clearly staged, it's possible he did have 'assistance.'
    Don’t pedal your fake news around here.
    Sorry I spoke.
    We've all been taken for a ride?
    You're not saddling me with that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704
    edited September 2022

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile I'd like to see the Chris Kaba bodycam footage.

    There is that, and the testimony of those involved - it should be like VAR for the IOPC and they should have a judgement within days, surely.

    The Police Federation are apoplectic with rage at the suspension. A quick judgement and reinstatement would contain their anger.
    Am I missing something? I thought it was standard practice to suspend any officer involved in a shooting till it had been investigated*, without prejudice to the offier in question.

    *Edit: at least internally.
  • Jonathan said:

    From a financial perspective, it's boom time in the UK for the wealthy metropolitan elite and citizens of nowhere. Red Wall Leave voters are handing them one hell of a bung.

    Bizarre politics. Hard to tell whether it is favours for favours or they genuinely believe in a kleptocracy.
    It's a bit of both. I think the best way to understand the Truss government is that they think they are going to lose the next election and are going to work through a Tory wet dream wishlist of policies they couldn't get past the voters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,411

    Looks like Theresa May queued. Respect to her if so.

    I think politicians and VIPs* - like foreign heads of state/government join the queue near its end.

    *Unlikely to include Oprah.
    Anyone with a full Commons pass can just go in.
    So Her Majesty instead of receiving the respects of her grieving subjects in peace and dignity has to put up with the likes of Fabricant, Burgon and Pincher?

    That's outrageous.
  • Looks like Theresa May queued. Respect to her if so.

    I think politicians and VIPs* - like foreign heads of state/government join the queue near its end.

    *Unlikely to include Oprah.
    Anyone with a full Commons pass can just go straight in, queue skipped.
    So not John Bercow. Oh dear, what a shame, never mind…..
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 1,515
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ben Judah in UnHerd

    "Queen Elizabeth’s death marks the latest step away from divinely ordained monarchy, towards something else. No longer sacred, the European monarch would rather be a pilot, or a country gentleman interested in urban planning. Another step along the path we have travelled since the laying of hands on His Majesty to cure disease was suspended after Queen Anne. It is no longer possible to suspend disbelief. The magic — or rather the mindset — was gone. There have been tears for the Queen this week, but can we imagine the same for Prince William decades from now?"

    https://unherd.com/2022/09/divine-monarchy-is-finished/

    The monarch will always be divinely ordained, whatever liberal intellectuals may wish
    Alternatively, you will always believe in fairies, and the Tory party.
    There's also the slight problem that, *on the monarchy's own evidence*, it supports two different religions, or at least two very different varieties of non-RC Christianity, one north and the other south of the border. The English variety of Catholic episcopalianism, subordinating Church to State, is completely incompatible with Calvinist Presbyterianism. As indeed the history of the High Kirk of St Giles reminds us.
    Well its a bit more complicated. The Church of England and the Church of Scotland made the ecumenical Columba declaration in 2015 which essentially placed the two churches in amity. This is in addition to the Porvoo declaration with the Lutheran churches in Europe that put Anglicans and Lutherans in full communion.

    I was christened CofS but for family reasons joined the Estonian Lutheran congregation 20 years ago and now I find myself a member of the Anglican deanery synod because the English language congregation in Tallinn is both Lutheran and Anglican and they needed a volunteer.

    I am not really into the narcissism of small differences (though it took a while to stop saying "debtors" in the Lords Prayer) In the face of the Universe probably created by the Big Bang, any presiding spirit is practically beyond our comprehension in any event. I think it is good for my mental health to spend an hour a week remembering that through song and ritual, but how you deal with life, death and the Universe is up to you.
  • An interesting thread collecting some curious statements about Ukraine from the German military establishment.

    https://twitter.com/minna_alander/status/1570116469509476352
  • My understanding is that the cap on bankers' bonuses was imposed by the EU. So, lifting that cap means that the government can at last demonstrate one very clear benefit of Brexit as the UK goes it alone.

    We should all celebrate: Brexit has a point, after all. Vote Brexit, make bankers richer. Yay.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,876
    Interesting on the image of the Queen used by the BBC quite a lot
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62887476

    I'd thought it was a photograph when I'd seen it. @OldKingCole - you're not the artist, are you? :wink: Over your way though, I think? Ever seen it in Colchester? Colchester will have a new tourist attraction!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704

    My understanding is that the cap on bankers' bonuses was imposed by the EU. So, lifting that cap means that the government can at last demonstrate one very clear benefit of Brexit as the UK goes it alone.

    We should all celebrate: Brexit has a point, after all. Vote Brexit, make bankers richer. Yay.

    That was identified by Remainers, rightly or wrongly, as a key motivation for Brexit IIRC even before the referendum, wasn't it? Also the impending EU clampdown on tax havens.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,411

    My understanding is that the cap on bankers' bonuses was imposed by the EU. So, lifting that cap means that the government can at last demonstrate one very clear benefit of Brexit as the UK goes it alone.

    We should all celebrate: Brexit has a point, after all. Vote Brexit, make bankers richer. Yay.

    Which would make it ironic that they were mostly strongly opposed to leaving the EU.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 20,029

    Taxpayer subsidies to support energy companies
    Tax cuts that deliver huge sums to wealthy individuals and businesses
    Both funded by borrowing
    An end to limits on bankers' bonuses

    The Tories are making very clear whose side they are on.

    Remarkable - they seem determined to live up to a Socialist Workers Party caricature. I've spent all my life even in my most left-wing moments conceding that lots of Conservative Ministers thought they had the best interests of the whole country at heart, they just saw the route differently. I'm struggling to think that at the moment.
  • Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Good luck with the length, duration etc.
    Words of encouragement that we can all do with on occasion.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,965

    tlg86 said:

    ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    Good morning

    I heard that report as well and it is astonishing that Morrisons apparently have a 7 billion debt

    Shop anywhere but Morrisons would be the message

    5live also discussed Kwarteng's proposal to abolish city bonuses and it really does make you wonder if the conservative party have lost all it's instincts to govern

    It may be the right thing from a business sense, but the optics are shocking and hands yet another gift to labour

    It is the right thing from city workers sense. It is a bad thing for shareholders and really bad for government and taxpayers who will eventually have to fund another bailout with years of austerity.
    I'm curious about this idea that bankers bonuses caused the subprime mortgage crisis.

    I am even more curious about the idea that there will ever be another bank bailout.
    Extreme bankers bonuses create incentives for bankers to gamble with the banks money. If they win, fantastic, if they lose its not their money and as long as you can talk the talk and know some of the right people, it is still easy to get another job.

    That culture feeds through to the banks to gamble, notionally with their money, but knowing they have a government funded back stop as they are too big to fail.

    Take away the controls and regulation and sooner or later we shall be back to bail outs.
    Well, it's too bad the Labour government didn't do something about it then...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,101
    Repost from last night

    Interestingly Truss govt seems to be working its way down a list of things previous Tory govts wanted to do at some point, but were talked out of. Kind of politics with the safety catch off

    https://twitter.com/gabyhinsliff/status/1570163997256863744
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,901

    Jonathan said:

    From a financial perspective, it's boom time in the UK for the wealthy metropolitan elite and citizens of nowhere. Red Wall Leave voters are handing them one hell of a bung.

    Bizarre politics. Hard to tell whether it is favours for favours or they genuinely believe in a kleptocracy.
    It's a bit of both. I think the best way to understand the Truss government is that they think they are going to lose the next election and are going to work through a Tory wet dream wishlist of policies they couldn't get past the voters.
    I am not sure. Never underestimate the ego of a politician. More likely, the Truss government believes in trickle down economics and conflates rich people milking the system for wealth creating entrepreneurs. It flatters their own stories.

    So in their moral universe the more they make rich people even richer, the better it is for everyone. And the fact that people cannot afford to eat or heat their homes is secondary to them. Blind ideology and a touch of arrogance.

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,876

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Good luck with the length, duration etc.
    Words of encouragement that we can all do with on occasion.
    You know, I thought about this and then thought no, that's bad taste in the circumstances. Chapeau!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,817
    Carnyx said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile I'd like to see the Chris Kaba bodycam footage.

    There is that, and the testimony of those involved - it should be like VAR for the IOPC and they should have a judgement within days, surely.

    The Police Federation are apoplectic with rage at the suspension. A quick judgement and reinstatement would contain their anger.
    Am I missing something? I thought it was standard practice to suspend any officer involved in a shooting till it had been investigated*, without prejudice to the offier in question.

    *Edit: at least internally.
    I think it is normally put on restricted duties - non-firearms work.

    This is an actual suspension - go home etc.

    The repeated threats over the years to down tools by the armed police over investigations led T May, when she was Home Sec to change the firearms thing from being a voluntary duty to requiring officers to formally sign up for it. Which means that if they down tools, it is a disciplinary issue.

  • Taxpayer subsidies to support energy companies
    Tax cuts that deliver huge sums to wealthy individuals and businesses
    Both funded by borrowing
    An end to limits on bankers' bonuses

    The Tories are making very clear whose side they are on.

    Remarkable - they seem determined to live up to a Socialist Workers Party caricature. I've spent all my life even in my most left-wing moments conceding that lots of Conservative Ministers thought they had the best interests of the whole country at heart, they just saw the route differently. I'm struggling to think that at the moment.
    They are 100% invested in trickle-down economics. They believe that making rich people richer benefits everyone. I am not sure that works. I am even less sure that it works within the space of two years.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,411
    MattW said:

    ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    I don't think that's it. ASDA also have a gigantic debt after being bought out in 2020 - approx £4 billion vs £6 billion. Financial engineers maximising profit?

    ASDA just had their credit rating cut to BB-minus because of heavy debt.
    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-11204317/Ratings-agency-Fitch-sounds-alarm-Asdas-growing-debts.html

    Here ASDA & Morrisons are my two closest superstores, and the difference is that ASDA are quite stripped out with very limited personal service fresh produce, and Morrisons have their own butcher, big delicatessen, wet fish counter and so on. Plus a wider product range.

    I'm not sure where Morrisons will go market wise - I shop there for fresh produce especially fish and the service, plus some niche products. I'm only in ASDA about once a year - mainly for drinks at Christmas.
    I shall be very sad if Morrisons goes downhill, but I won't be surprised. I was horrified at that takeover and I said it wouldn't end well.

    And the only reason I ever go to Asda now is because they're about the last place in Southern Staffordshire you can buy French mustard for some odd reason.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,972

    My understanding is that the cap on bankers' bonuses was imposed by the EU. So, lifting that cap means that the government can at last demonstrate one very clear benefit of Brexit as the UK goes it alone.

    We should all celebrate: Brexit has a point, after all. Vote Brexit, make bankers richer. Yay.

    That was always what Brexit was about, as I have said from the start. Deregulation, unchain the City, make the rich richer. That they got a load of working class people shafted by austerity to vote for it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
    You do know how many "working class" (bless) people work in the City and get very rich. Why we have one or two on this very board.

    What are you complaining about? There is no passport control at Worksop preventing people moving to London (or their local financial services hub) and getting a job.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    Good morning

    I heard that report as well and it is astonishing that Morrisons apparently have a 7 billion debt

    Shop anywhere but Morrisons would be the message

    5live also discussed Kwarteng's proposal to abolish city bonuses and it really does make you wonder if the conservative party have lost all it's instincts to govern

    It may be the right thing from a business sense, but the optics are shocking and hands yet another gift to labour

    It is the right thing from city workers sense. It is a bad thing for shareholders and really bad for government and taxpayers who will eventually have to fund another bailout with years of austerity.
    I'm curious about this idea that bankers bonuses caused the subprime mortgage crisis.

    I am even more curious about the idea that there will ever be another bank bailout.
    Extreme bankers bonuses create incentives for bankers to gamble with the banks money. If they win, fantastic, if they lose its not their money and as long as you can talk the talk and know some of the right people, it is still easy to get another job.

    That culture feeds through to the banks to gamble, notionally with their money, but knowing they have a government funded back stop as they are too big to fail.

    Take away the controls and regulation and sooner or later we shall be back to bail outs.
    Well, it's too bad the Labour government didn't do something about it then...
    Of course. Not sure why you think that is relevant when they have not been in power for a long time and it is the current governments policies that will matter.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,901

    Taxpayer subsidies to support energy companies
    Tax cuts that deliver huge sums to wealthy individuals and businesses
    Both funded by borrowing
    An end to limits on bankers' bonuses

    The Tories are making very clear whose side they are on.

    Remarkable - they seem determined to live up to a Socialist Workers Party caricature. I've spent all my life even in my most left-wing moments conceding that lots of Conservative Ministers thought they had the best interests of the whole country at heart, they just saw the route differently. I'm struggling to think that at the moment.
    They are 100% invested in trickle-down economics. They believe that making rich people richer benefits everyone. I am not sure that works. I am even less sure that it works within the space of two years.

    The interesting scenario is that the Ukrainian war ends, the economy rebounds and the Truss administration picks up the credit, despite their policies.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,972

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile I'd like to see the Chris Kaba bodycam footage.

    There is that, and the testimony of those involved - it should be like VAR for the IOPC and they should have a judgement within days, surely.

    The Police Federation are apoplectic with rage at the suspension. A quick judgement and reinstatement would contain their anger.
    It will be interesting to see the family's reaction after they have been shown it. They don't seem like the kind of people who will be bound by an NDA although perhaps (lawyers?) there is some kind of contempt of court issue around them disclosing what they saw.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,411

    Carnyx said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile I'd like to see the Chris Kaba bodycam footage.

    There is that, and the testimony of those involved - it should be like VAR for the IOPC and they should have a judgement within days, surely.

    The Police Federation are apoplectic with rage at the suspension. A quick judgement and reinstatement would contain their anger.
    Am I missing something? I thought it was standard practice to suspend any officer involved in a shooting till it had been investigated*, without prejudice to the offier in question.

    *Edit: at least internally.
    I think it is normally put on restricted duties - non-firearms work.

    This is an actual suspension - go home etc.

    The repeated threats over the years to down tools by the armed police over investigations led T May, when she was Home Sec to change the firearms thing from being a voluntary duty to requiring officers to formally sign up for it. Which means that if they down tools, it is a disciplinary issue.

    I can imagine shooting the Commissioner would be a disciplinary issue, whatever the benefit to the country.

    Oh sorry, not 'down tools' in that sense?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,876

    Taxpayer subsidies to support energy companies
    Tax cuts that deliver huge sums to wealthy individuals and businesses
    Both funded by borrowing
    An end to limits on bankers' bonuses

    The Tories are making very clear whose side they are on.

    Remarkable - they seem determined to live up to a Socialist Workers Party caricature. I've spent all my life even in my most left-wing moments conceding that lots of Conservative Ministers thought they had the best interests of the whole country at heart, they just saw the route differently. I'm struggling to think that at the moment.
    Reminds me of that scene from Yes Minister where they're discussing a damaging story:
    Sir Humphrey: "Well, we can always try to persuade them [the BBC] to withdraw programs voluntarily, once they realize that transmission is not in the public interest."
    Jim Hacker: "Well, it is not in my interest. And I represent the public, so it is not in the public interest."
    Sir Humphrey: "That's a novel argument. We haven't tried that on them before."

    Surely the same logic applies. If it's in the interest of an MP and the MP represents the public then it is surely in the public interest? :innocent:
  • I am so looking forward to Jacob Rees Mogg declaring the end to the cap on bankers' bonuses as a big Brexit benefit and explaining why making the very rich even richer benefits everyone. It will be spectacular.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704
    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Good luck with the length, duration etc.
    Words of encouragement that we can all do with on occasion.
    You know, I thought about this and then thought no, that's bad taste in the circumstances. Chapeau!
    The unintended double entendre is entirely my fault - it stuck out the moment TUD commented - and I'm actually mildly horrified I let it through, just in case it was misunderstood. A warning for the future.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,876

    I am so looking forward to Jacob Rees Mogg declaring the end to the cap on bankers' bonuses as a big Brexit benefit and explaining why making the very rich even richer benefits everyone. It will be spectacular.

    #trickle-down obvs
  • CRIII having a day of ‘quiet contemplation’ today. Why can’t they just say the poor old bugger needs a rest to avoid future tantrums (or words to that effect) instead of that pompousese?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,853
    edited September 2022

    Taxpayer subsidies to support energy companies
    Tax cuts that deliver huge sums to wealthy individuals and businesses
    Both funded by borrowing
    An end to limits on bankers' bonuses

    The Tories are making very clear whose side they are on.

    Remarkable - they seem determined to live up to a Socialist Workers Party caricature. I've spent all my life even in my most left-wing moments conceding that lots of Conservative Ministers thought they had the best interests of the whole country at heart, they just saw the route differently. I'm struggling to think that at the moment.
    The reason given (FWIW) is that it allows banks to pay lower fixed salaries in exchange for larger bonuses when they are more profitable.
    There's no doubt that it will make the City relatively more attractive for certain kinds of banking.

    As @Cyclefree pointed out earlier, it also creates perverse incentives that tend to encourage the kind of risk taking that leads to significant problems, or worse.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,965

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    ping said:

    Wow.

    Analyst on R5L’s wake up to money - tracking a basket of essential goods says price difference between Morrissons and Aldi is now 40%. Explained by Morrisons having to service a gigantic debt.

    Shop at Aldi, people.

    Good morning

    I heard that report as well and it is astonishing that Morrisons apparently have a 7 billion debt

    Shop anywhere but Morrisons would be the message

    5live also discussed Kwarteng's proposal to abolish city bonuses and it really does make you wonder if the conservative party have lost all it's instincts to govern

    It may be the right thing from a business sense, but the optics are shocking and hands yet another gift to labour

    It is the right thing from city workers sense. It is a bad thing for shareholders and really bad for government and taxpayers who will eventually have to fund another bailout with years of austerity.
    I'm curious about this idea that bankers bonuses caused the subprime mortgage crisis.

    I am even more curious about the idea that there will ever be another bank bailout.
    Extreme bankers bonuses create incentives for bankers to gamble with the banks money. If they win, fantastic, if they lose its not their money and as long as you can talk the talk and know some of the right people, it is still easy to get another job.

    That culture feeds through to the banks to gamble, notionally with their money, but knowing they have a government funded back stop as they are too big to fail.

    Take away the controls and regulation and sooner or later we shall be back to bail outs.
    Well, it's too bad the Labour government didn't do something about it then...
    Of course. Not sure why you think that is relevant when they have not been in power for a long time and it is the current governments policies that will matter.
    Well, the view of Labour supporters on the GFC is "it started in America".
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,741

    Nigelb said:

    One for @Dura_Ace
    Note the scooter at the end. :smile:

    This is a cyclist using his knowledge of physics and aerodynamics to gain a competitive advantage

    Michael Guerra unclips from his pedals, lies down on the seat and stretches out his legs to achieve ultimate aerodynamic efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1569865146494746624

    I suspect he had a motor - I don’t see how he would have maintained momentum for that distance
    D = Cd * A * .5 * r * V^2

    He's probably halving A and dramatically improving Cd.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,704

    I am so looking forward to Jacob Rees Mogg declaring the end to the cap on bankers' bonuses as a big Brexit benefit and explaining why making the very rich even richer benefits everyone. It will be spectacular.

    Nannies will be cheaper and more money also means more of them can be employed?
  • Scott_xP said:

    Got a brolly, so this could be peak Britishness: queen, queue and quibbling about the weather.

    Everyone will be ecstatic.

    Queue is such a great word. The actual important letter, and then four more silently waiting behind it in a line.

    https://twitter.com/benrathe/status/1570181330528505858

    Or, as it is known,...

    The Queue E II
    Q(ue)²
  • Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    I very much hope @Casino_Royale went. It seemed like something he needed to do.

    I'm going tonight.
    Good luck with the length, duration etc.
    Words of encouragement that we can all do with on occasion.
    You know, I thought about this and then thought no, that's bad taste in the circumstances. Chapeau!
    You can always depend on me!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,972

    CRIII having a day of ‘quiet contemplation’ today. Why can’t they just say the poor old bugger needs a rest to avoid future tantrums (or words to that effect) instead of that pompousese?

    I think quiet contemplation would probably sum up quite well what he will be doing; he's probably not had a moment to think about it all since it happened.

    He will hardly be donning jeans and a t-shirt and heading over to Camden Market.
  • Carnyx said:

    My understanding is that the cap on bankers' bonuses was imposed by the EU. So, lifting that cap means that the government can at last demonstrate one very clear benefit of Brexit as the UK goes it alone.

    We should all celebrate: Brexit has a point, after all. Vote Brexit, make bankers richer. Yay.

    That was identified by Remainers, rightly or wrongly, as a key motivation for Brexit IIRC even before the referendum, wasn't it? Also the impending EU clampdown on tax havens.
    Revenues in some parts of the banking business are down 80-90% this year.

    Historically you had low fixed costs (an MD at a broking firm might have a salary of £100k and earn up to £750k as a bonus. So you are ok in a horrible year.

    Now the salaries are £300k and the bonuses capped at £600k. The total compensation is about the same - but in a bad year the banks lose pots of money

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,901

    I am so looking forward to Jacob Rees Mogg declaring the end to the cap on bankers' bonuses as a big Brexit benefit and explaining why making the very rich even richer benefits everyone. It will be spectacular.

    Labour need to be careful here. This will be wrapped up in bullshit aspiration rhetoric, despite the gap between rich and poor growing ever wider and harder to bridge.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,933
    Carnyx said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile I'd like to see the Chris Kaba bodycam footage.

    There is that, and the testimony of those involved - it should be like VAR for the IOPC and they should have a judgement within days, surely.

    The Police Federation are apoplectic with rage at the suspension. A quick judgement and reinstatement would contain their anger.
    Am I missing something? I thought it was standard practice to suspend any officer involved in a shooting till it had been investigated*, without prejudice to the offier in question.

    *Edit: at least internally.
    No Ken Marsh believes it is a media witchunt against the Officer which eventually led to the gardening leave.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,877

    I am so looking forward to Jacob Rees Mogg declaring the end to the cap on bankers' bonuses as a big Brexit benefit and explaining why making the very rich even richer benefits everyone. It will be spectacular.

    I’m hoping he announces it from the balcony at St James’ Palace in full morning dress (including top hat) with trumpeters.

  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,371
    Jonathan said:

    Taxpayer subsidies to support energy companies
    Tax cuts that deliver huge sums to wealthy individuals and businesses
    Both funded by borrowing
    An end to limits on bankers' bonuses

    The Tories are making very clear whose side they are on.

    Remarkable - they seem determined to live up to a Socialist Workers Party caricature. I've spent all my life even in my most left-wing moments conceding that lots of Conservative Ministers thought they had the best interests of the whole country at heart, they just saw the route differently. I'm struggling to think that at the moment.
    They are 100% invested in trickle-down economics. They believe that making rich people richer benefits everyone. I am not sure that works. I am even less sure that it works within the space of two years.

    The interesting scenario is that the Ukrainian war ends, the economy rebounds and the Truss administration picks up the credit, despite their policies.
    I don't see the end and the rebound happen before the next election, though.

    Even when the war ends, the sanctions will probably continue, and the strategic restructuring away from dependency on Russian energy will almost certainly continue.

    I think a more likely scenario is that people will be unwilling to give the government the benefit of the doubt once the war is over, even though a not-insignificant proportion of our woes can still be placed at the door of the Russian invasion.

    However, it will inevitably be proceeded by a bounce induced by "Plucky Britain beat the Russkies! Well done Liz!" tabloid puffery.
This discussion has been closed.