Actually, I withdraw my earlier comment. I'd rather have day five of wall-to-wall monarchism than day 8762354 of the endless trans argument.
When we get to the Coronation Service, you can have a dustup about the gender of God. *
(* Civil Service will deem the Holy Trinity to be plural and impose "they".)
Oh, I don't mind how what gender they use for God as long it's BCP rather than Common Worship. If they use the CW line about "you met us in your Son and brought us home" I will barf.
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
Its bizarre, back in 2008/09 when Cameron's Tories were well in the lead the "PB Tories" would repeatedly say to take nothing for granted, that nothing is certain, don't rest on your laurels etc
Yet now the shoe is on the other foot, the PB lefties seem to want to act as if the future is all certain, the forthcoming election is going to be a walk in the park for them and it is all signed, sealed and delivered.
Its odd how different the attitude is.
The fear is upon them. The creeping doubt, the knowledge that Labour victories are as rare as hens teeth. So they seek to bring it into being by dint of sheer force of will and certainty. Meanwhile the little internal voice cries 'all is lost!' Titter titter, guffaw etc
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
Its bizarre, back in 2008/09 when Cameron's Tories were well in the lead the "PB Tories" would repeatedly say to take nothing for granted, that nothing is certain, don't rest on your laurels etc
Yet now the shoe is on the other foot, the PB lefties seem to want to act as if the future is all certain, the forthcoming election is going to be a walk in the park for them and it is all signed, sealed and delivered.
Its odd how different the attitude is.
I am not sure why but complacency and taking the election for granted may not be the best idea
Truss v Starmer will be a contest that either can win
They've actually charged the woman in Edinburgh with breach of the peace for holding up a sign. We're a democracy. Tolerating dissent should be one of our strengths.
This is well out of control. It's behaviour Russia and China would use.
Yes. Something's amiss. I think the BBC , and others, also need to just slightly shift the tone of coverage, while remaining generally respectful. The enforcers of the law are getting the message that no dissent is allowed because virtually none has been on air now, for three days.
It's interesting to see how quickly a slight shift to authoritarianism can develop from media sources.
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
Its bizarre, back in 2008/09 when Cameron's Tories were well in the lead the "PB Tories" would repeatedly say to take nothing for granted, that nothing is certain, don't rest on your laurels etc
Yet now the shoe is on the other foot, the PB lefties seem to want to act as if the future is all certain, the forthcoming election is going to be a walk in the park for them and it is all signed, sealed and delivered.
Its odd how different the attitude is.
I am not sure why but complacency and taking the election for granted may not be the best idea
Truss v Starmer will be a contest that either can win
Truss v Starmer will be a contest where we could all lose....
They've actually charged the woman in Edinburgh with breach of the peace for holding up a sign. We're a democracy. Tolerating dissent should be one of our strengths.
This is well out of control. It's behaviour Russia and China would use.
Of course, this is the kind of thing we are liable to end up with if we try to enforce a "right not to be offended", which can really only mean the right of the majority to silence views they strongly disagree with.
There's rather too many of these incidents going on. Time for the BBC and others to dial down the sheer quantity and tone of the coverage just a little until next week, I think.
Lots of people seem to be wearing loud shirts in built areas at the moment..
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
I think for once I can speak for much of PB when I say that I’m utterly flabbergasted that Truss has managed to win you over. Who saw that coming?!!!
As she progresses through this parliament she will win many more and the left will have a fight on their hands
They've actually charged the woman in Edinburgh with breach of the peace for holding up a sign. We're a democracy. Tolerating dissent should be one of our strengths.
This is well out of control. It's behaviour Russia and China would use.
Yes. Something's amiss. I think the BBC also needs to just slightly shift the tone of its coverage, while remaining generally respectful. The enforcers of the law are getting the message that now dissent is allowed because virtually none has been on air now, for three days.
It's interesting to see how quickly a slight shift to authoritarianism can develop from media sources.
They arent in recess, they dont need to be recalled. They need to cancel the Sept 22nd recess though
The death of the Queen, which led to parliament being in recess this week, put those plans on hold. But at the lobby briefing, when asked if there would be a fiscal event next week, the spokesperson replied:
We are still planning to deliver a fiscal event this month. We would not do that in recess. Beyond that, we have not set out a date.
In practice, that means the emergency “budget” is pencilled in for next week. MPs were meant to be on recess next week, because the Lib Dems were supposed to be holding their party conference then, but that has been cancelled. They could return to parliament after the Queen’s funeral a week today.
At the "proclamation" of the king's "accession" in Oxford, a man was arrested for shouting "Who elected him?"
He was later "de-arrested". "A Thames Valley police spokesperson said: 'A 45-year-old man was arrested in connection with a disturbance that was caused during the county proclamation ceremony of King Charles III in Oxford. He has subsequently been de-arrested and is engaging with us voluntarily as we investigate a public order offence. The man was arrested on suspicion of a public order offence."
I wonder whether they told him he'd been "de-arrested", and if so, why he didn't just walk out of the police station.
I guess the authorities don't want anyone to appear in court in the near future (Magna Carta etc.) for expressing republican sentiments.
There's a difference between being arrested and removed.
If someone was highly disruptive in a comedy club, musical or theatre, shouting abuse or making a scene, you'd expect them to be thrown out by security, and rightly so.
But he wasn't in a club, theatre etc, he was in a public place.
He wasn't the only one arrested yesterday by overzealous police, free speech is important.
Free speech is important but there's a time and a place.
It's not really free speech then.
Living in a society requires concessions to others’ feelings. There’s a difference between a free debate and protesting at a funeral cortège. Now if it was a Pinochet or Franco (for example) there might be a case because of their actions - but for the Queen there is no over-riding justification.
It wasn't a funeral cortege.
God, you're such a dick.
It was quite literally a funeral cortege. The BBC spent hours announcing it so.
I've changed my mind: all republicans should be arrested for the next 10 days, and subject to dental torture as well.
Why are royalists so angry?
I suspect it's because so many people have been holding off on reassessing royalty and the monarchy as an institution till after the late Queen died. But her long life - happy and beloved as that was - meant that the question accumulated, so to speak. We're now in an era when historians are more openly discussing the monarchy's role in the British-operrated slave trade, for instance (Charles II and James VII and II and so on). And more generally the role of royalty, deference and honours in propping up the British establishment at a time when the same Establishment has made a howling mess of things - when, for instance, even lawyers can't afford to live in London, never mind nurses, and have a decent house and family life as well. I would be very twitchy if I were a royalist.
I find a significant amount to disagree with in this. Other countries have honours systems, including those that are republics. The economic situation in the country is not down to the monarchy but the actions of the government. You can perhaps raise concerns about how it perpetuates inequalities in society simply by one figure being above all others, but every country has to have a head of state, and many republics don’t get the balance right either.
And I’m afraid I don’t subscribe to the modern notion of visiting the sins of the parents on the children. We can criticise and learn from mistakes that were made historically, but that does not mean that we have to hold the descendants of those that made them in a permanent state of disgrace.
You don't realise how balls deep Charles and James were in the Royal African Company. Not called Royal just as a mark of respect
And disgrace is not the point. We don't expect contemporary Germans to feel guilt about the holocaust but we do expect them not to lie about its existence or extent and not to celebrate it.
How many people celebrate the slave trade?
Lots, implicitly. Pride in the achievements of the Empire is the usual sort of formula.
They've actually charged the woman in Edinburgh with breach of the peace for holding up a sign. We're a democracy. Tolerating dissent should be one of our strengths.
This is well out of control. It's behaviour Russia and China would use.
Yes. Something's amiss. I think the BBC , and others, also need to just slightly shift the tone of coverage, while remaining generally respectful. The enforcers of the law are getting the message that no dissent is allowed because virtually none has been on air now, for three days.
It's interesting to see how quickly a slight shift to authoritarianism can develop from media sources.
Liz has got a job on if she wants to 'reduce the size of the state', because I don't see much sign of the State wanting to be reduced.
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
That is quite a persuasive line of analysis. But it also may be what Russia wants us to think.
It's quite the curate's egg. eg
He's right about US self-interest being one of the top priorities - that's been the case since forever. eg Destroyers for bases, and machinations to end Far East empires in WW2. But its also the case for everyone else, too - when Germany came up with its putative €100bn for defence the first conversations I heard were around "how can we use this to boost exports". UK is the same; it is a high priority.
The stuff about lend-lease is not very convincing, since (afaik) it has not started yet despite the claim that current weaponry is supplied that way. In WW2 lend-lease was charged in the end at 10% of face value iirc, and even then much was not paid back.
What I do not see mentioned are the large amounts of Ukrainian farmland now owned by US (and other) investors,
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
I am genuinely surprised that a One-Nation type such as yourself is in the camp of an ultra-Libertarian, while our friend from Essex in the Union Jack Y-fronts is set against her.
Brazil’s far-right president, Jair Bolsonaro, has confirmed he will attend the funeral - a rare overseas outing for a president whose anti-democratic behaviour and destruction of the Amazon have made him an international pariah.
(US) Deflation in the pipeline, heading for the PPI, CPI, PCE Deflator: from post-COVID price peaks, lumber -60%, copper -35%, oil -35%, iron ore -60%, DRAM -46%, corn -17%, Baltic freight rates -79%, gold -17%, and silver -39%. https://twitter.com/CathieDWood/status/1569182368954724352
Gas futures peaked at 702p/therm. They are now at 365 and the trend is down.
I brought up the possibility of deflation a couple of weeks ago, was laughed at by some at the time.
Once the spike up rolls out of the data, some funny things can happen, some technical deflation is absolutely possible in the years ahead.
China’s screwups over Zero COVID have led to raw material gluts. Eiirooe hitting tank tops on natural gas storage has meant a big decrease in demand.
China will sort itself out, and winter is coming.
It’s not over yet.
Even if the Russian invasion of Ukraine ends with a complete defeat for Russia, there is nearly no chance that the gas deliveries will be restarted,
That depends on whether Russia gets itself a pragmatic new leader after Putin has "a hospital appointment".
Whether there are any pragmatic politicians left in Russia is perhaps doubtful.
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
I am genuinely surprised that a One-Nation type such as yourself is in the camp of an ultra-Libertarian, while our friend from Essex in the Union Jack Y-fronts is set against her.
Funny old game.
Not that funny, libertarians and one nation types can have more in common with each other than with authoritarian wannabe fascists who want to send tanks and batons against those who disagree with them.
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
I am genuinely surprised that a One-Nation type such as yourself is in the camp of an ultra-Libertarian, while our friend from Essex in the Union Jack Y-fronts is set against her.
Funny old game.
The common denominator is Johnson
@HYUFD cannot accept he is gone, I celebrate totally that he is out of office
Off topic, and just popping by, but I would like to claim a definitive way to determine if you are in The North or The South.
I bring you "The P/G Ratio", where P is the number of branches of Pret in a town, and G is the number of branches of Greggs.
P/G > 1 = South P/G = 1 = Midlands P/G < 1 = North
Someone with a lot of time on their hands could generate a map to illustrate this...
Brighton: 3 Prets, 3 Greggs. Midlands? Sorry, theory fails.
Hm. A quick Google reveals that there are 2229 branches of Greggs and only 460 of Pret in the UK. I proposed we need to introduce constant, Y, which is equal to 460/2229, or about 0.206:
PY/G > 1 = South PY/G = 1 = Midlands PY/G < 1 = North
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
I think for once I can speak for much of PB when I say that I’m utterly flabbergasted that Truss has managed to win you over. Who saw that coming?!!!
As she progresses through this parliament she will win many more and the left will have a fight on their hands
The left wants to erode accumulated privilege and give a voice to the powerless. We *always* have a fight on our hands. I do expect Starmer to be PM after the next election, though - I think he should be the clear favourite.
Somebody was talking about gas prices falling, I wonder how much the price would have to fall for the government to break even on its price guarantee.
Would the state start buying futures at that point? could it?
I think the amount spent will be less than predicted, because the current £150bn ... £170bn numbers are mainly another round of media sensationalism, the last one about "typical bills" being £5k, £6k, or £8k having evaporated in a puff of smoke.
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
Somebody was talking about gas prices falling, I wonder how much the price would have to fall for the government to break even on its price guarantee.
Would the state start buying futures at that point? could it?
I think the amount spent will be less than predicted, because the current £150bn ... £170bn numbers are mainly another round of media sensationalism, the last one about "typical bills" being £5k, £6k, or £8k having evaporated in a puff of smoke.
Indeed.
It would surely be tempting to lock in some of the risk if prices really did come down, I'm not sure if the government would or could do that.
Off topic, and just popping by, but I would like to claim a definitive way to determine if you are in The North or The South.
I bring you "The P/G Ratio", where P is the number of branches of Pret in a town, and G is the number of branches of Greggs.
P/G > 1 = South P/G = 1 = Midlands P/G < 1 = North
Someone with a lot of time on their hands could generate a map to illustrate this...
Is this one of those culture war issues where you have to pick a side? I am a fan of both firms' output but Pret probably wins on the basis of its egg sarnies.
Somebody was talking about gas prices falling, I wonder how much the price would have to fall for the government to break even on its price guarantee.
Would the state start buying futures at that point? could it?
Price guarantee to consumers?
I was trying to work this out the other day without a lot of success. The price of gas in the home and its relationship with the wholesale price is...complicated.
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
No, not at all. For the same reason you dont filter opposing football fans into the same streams or opposing protestors into the same spot, where something is likely to cause a public order incident you move them on for their own safety/to maintain public order
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
I think for once I can speak for much of PB when I say that I’m utterly flabbergasted that Truss has managed to win you over. Who saw that coming?!!!
As she progresses through this parliament she will win many more and the left will have a fight on their hands
The left wants to erode accumulated privilege and give a voice to the powerless. We *always* have a fight on our hands. I do expect Starmer to be PM after the next election, though - I think he should be the clear favourite.
As long as the voice of the powerless says more or less what you wanted it to say. The evidence suggests that when the powerless go off-script, the left is furious.
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
Its bizarre, back in 2008/09 when Cameron's Tories were well in the lead the "PB Tories" would repeatedly say to take nothing for granted, that nothing is certain, don't rest on your laurels etc
Yet now the shoe is on the other foot, the PB lefties seem to want to act as if the future is all certain, the forthcoming election is going to be a walk in the park for them and it is all signed, sealed and delivered.
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
I hold no candle for Labour, for whom I have never voted, so talk of 'complacency' is completely meaningless as far as I'm concerned. My pronouncements on Liz's failings are based only on rational, hard-headed analysis. That should worry you: you already know I am knowledgeable and wise, so if there is no tribal aspect to my reservations then something serious must be going on.
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
No, not at all. For the same reason you dont filter opposing football fans into the same streams or opposing protestors into the same spot, where something is likely to cause a public order incident you move them on for their own safety/to maintain public order
Not at all, that's an authoritarian excuse to clamp down on peaceful protest.
Opposing football fans absolutely can, are and should be allowed to mingle together in public spaces. They're segregated on private property in the stadium, not by law in public places.
Individuals who are not breaking the law, should not be interfered with. If someone starts breaking the law, that is time for the Police to be involved, until then maybe the Police could try actually investigating burglaries or other crimes they claim not to have the resources to investigate instead of the law abiding.
Somebody was talking about gas prices falling, I wonder how much the price would have to fall for the government to break even on its price guarantee.
Would the state start buying futures at that point? could it?
Price guarantee to consumers?
AS I understand it the government is capping the price of the gas bills people pay by taking on the difference between the actual wholesale price and the wholesale price required to keep bills below £2,500
The cost is touted at USD150bn over 2 years, but if the wholesale price fell far enough, I guess it could be zero...?? I just wonder what the numbers are...?
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
I hold no candle for Labour, for whom I have never voted, so talk of 'complacency' is completely meaningless as far as I'm concerned. My pronouncements on Liz's failings are based only on rational, hard-headed analysis. That should worry you: you already know I am knowledgeable and wise, so if there is no tribal aspect to my reservations then something serious must be going on.
Somebody was talking about gas prices falling, I wonder how much the price would have to fall for the government to break even on its price guarantee.
Would the state start buying futures at that point? could it?
I think the amount spent will be less than predicted, because the current £150bn ... £170bn numbers are mainly another round of media sensationalism, the last one about "typical bills" being £5k, £6k, or £8k having evaporated in a puff of smoke.
Indeed.
It would surely be tempting to lock in some of the risk if prices really did come down, I'm not sure if the government would or could do that.
I would want to see that treated as part of the debt management function of the Bank of England.
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
No, not at all. For the same reason you dont filter opposing football fans into the same streams or opposing protestors into the same spot, where something is likely to cause a public order incident you move them on for their own safety/to maintain public order
Not at all, that's an authoritarian excuse to clamp down on peaceful protest.
Opposing football fans absolutely can, are and should be allowed to mingle together in public spaces. They're segregated on private property in the stadium, not by law in public places.
Individuals who are not breaking the law, should not be interfered with. If someone starts breaking the law, that is time for the Police to be involved, until then maybe the Police could try actually investigating burglaries or other crimes they claim not to have the resources to investigate instead of the law abiding.
So opposing protestors should be allowed to mingle then? There should be no police direction of football fans to the stadiums? In fact no policing at all unless a crime is committed?
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
Its bizarre, back in 2008/09 when Cameron's Tories were well in the lead the "PB Tories" would repeatedly say to take nothing for granted, that nothing is certain, don't rest on your laurels etc
Yet now the shoe is on the other foot, the PB lefties seem to want to act as if the future is all certain, the forthcoming election is going to be a walk in the park for them and it is all signed, sealed and delivered.
Its odd how different the attitude is.
I am not sure why but complacency and taking the election for granted may not be the best idea
Truss v Starmer will be a contest that either can win
Truss v Starmer will be a contest where we could all lose....
Mike is absolutely correct: events have destroyed any chance Liz had. The plan would have been to explode onto the scene with a plethora of controversial libertarian proposals, causing mayhem and seizing the media narrative. That ship has now sailed. By the time Liz gets any room for manoeuvre public weariness will already have set in and everyone will be thinking about the next installment. It's over I'm afraid.
It is far from over and labour are about to find out they have competition for 2024
They may still win but it is not as likely now
Liz is a dud. You know that. That's why you supported Rishi.
You really do not keep up do you
Rishi long since lost me and Truss has won me over
You may well have a genuine fight on your hands and certainly the 2024 election is a contest again
I hold no candle for Labour, for whom I have never voted, so talk of 'complacency' is completely meaningless as far as I'm concerned. My pronouncements on Liz's failings are based only on rational, hard-headed analysis. That should worry you: you already know I am knowledgeable and wise, so if there is no tribal aspect to my reservations then something serious must be going on.
Sorry but you have an agenda and are not independent
Something to do with the brexit and your opposition to it maybe
They've actually charged the woman in Edinburgh with breach of the peace for holding up a sign. We're a democracy. Tolerating dissent should be one of our strengths.
This is well out of control. It's behaviour Russia and China would use.
Of course, this is the kind of thing we are liable to end up with if we try to enforce a "right not to be offended", which can really only mean the right of the majority to silence views they strongly disagree with.
No, it will be the right of every group have people arrested for speech crimes.
I am compiling a list of people who are offensive to me for just existing. Charity chuggers and Communists for a start.
Off topic, and just popping by, but I would like to claim a definitive way to determine if you are in The North or The South.
I bring you "The P/G Ratio", where P is the number of branches of Pret in a town, and G is the number of branches of Greggs.
P/G > 1 = South P/G = 1 = Midlands P/G < 1 = North
Someone with a lot of time on their hands could generate a map to illustrate this...
Brighton: 3 Prets, 3 Greggs. Midlands? Sorry, theory fails.
Hm. A quick Google reveals that there are 2229 branches of Greggs and only 460 of Pret in the UK. I proposed we need to introduce constant, Y, which is equal to 460/2229, or about 0.206:
PY/G > 1 = South PY/G = 1 = Midlands PY/G < 1 = North
That may work better?
But then contains the implicit assumption that the three areas (or at least, the two areas north and south) are of roughly equal size? Which may or may not be true.
Actually, I withdraw my earlier comment. I'd rather have day five of wall-to-wall monarchism than day 8762354 of the endless trans argument.
When we get to the Coronation Service, you can have a dustup about the gender of God. *
(* Civil Service will deem the Holy Trinity to be plural and impose "they".)
Oh, I don't mind how what gender they use for God as long it's BCP rather than Common Worship. If they use the CW line about "you met us in your Son and brought us home" I will barf.
Does CW have the Coronation Service in it?
It's a "fit congregation" strategy in the CofE to make everyone carry all those pages around that only get used once in an average lifetime .
Off topic, and just popping by, but I would like to claim a definitive way to determine if you are in The North or The South.
I bring you "The P/G Ratio", where P is the number of branches of Pret in a town, and G is the number of branches of Greggs.
P/G > 1 = South P/G = 1 = Midlands P/G < 1 = North
Someone with a lot of time on their hands could generate a map to illustrate this...
Is this one of those culture war issues where you have to pick a side? I am a fan of both firms' output but Pret probably wins on the basis of its egg sarnies.
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
No, not at all. For the same reason you dont filter opposing football fans into the same streams or opposing protestors into the same spot, where something is likely to cause a public order incident you move them on for their own safety/to maintain public order
Not at all, that's an authoritarian excuse to clamp down on peaceful protest.
Opposing football fans absolutely can, are and should be allowed to mingle together in public spaces. They're segregated on private property in the stadium, not by law in public places.
Individuals who are not breaking the law, should not be interfered with. If someone starts breaking the law, that is time for the Police to be involved, until then maybe the Police could try actually investigating burglaries or other crimes they claim not to have the resources to investigate instead of the law abiding.
You are not quite right on this. Its quite normal for away fans to be isolated from hone fans - notably if travelling by rail, or coaches. Often away fans get held behind in stadia too (or at least did in recent memory for me). Of course you cannot corale all away fans - many travel independently by car, but its not right to say that they are only segregated inside the gounds/on private property (I guess includes concourse etc).
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
No, not at all. For the same reason you dont filter opposing football fans into the same streams or opposing protestors into the same spot, where something is likely to cause a public order incident you move them on for their own safety/to maintain public order
Not at all, that's an authoritarian excuse to clamp down on peaceful protest.
Opposing football fans absolutely can, are and should be allowed to mingle together in public spaces. They're segregated on private property in the stadium, not by law in public places.
Individuals who are not breaking the law, should not be interfered with. If someone starts breaking the law, that is time for the Police to be involved, until then maybe the Police could try actually investigating burglaries or other crimes they claim not to have the resources to investigate instead of the law abiding.
So opposing protestors should be allowed to mingle then? There should be no police direction of football fans to the stadiums? In fact no policing at all unless a crime is committed?
Yes absolutely opposing protestors should be allowed to mingle, if no crime has been committed.
Large organised protests may be on separate routes, but individuals walking freely breaking no law absolutely should be able to mingle with those disagreeing with them.
Somebody was talking about gas prices falling, I wonder how much the price would have to fall for the government to break even on its price guarantee.
Would the state start buying futures at that point? could it?
I think the amount spent will be less than predicted, because the current £150bn ... £170bn numbers are mainly another round of media sensationalism, the last one about "typical bills" being £5k, £6k, or £8k having evaporated in a puff of smoke.
Indeed.
It would surely be tempting to lock in some of the risk if prices really did come down, I'm not sure if the government would or could do that.
I would want to see that treated as part of the debt management function of the Bank of England.
Indeed. I've just seen some research that shows European gas consumption at 87% of where it is normally at this time of year....
In a certain sense the BBC has allowed virtually no dissent so far because of its terror of the Tories, the tabloids, and the constant accusations of being unpatriotic, and other broadcasters and then the enforcers of the law have then followed its example. The monarchy is the BBC's alibi.
One moral of the story could be, that if you want a fully functioning democratic society, don't put constant pressure on your state broadcaster to tow a particular line. The BBC isn't perfect itself, either, ofcourse, with a disproportionate focus in the last few years on identity-led issues over massive social inequalities which it hardy dares speak of, unlike in the 1990's and 1980's , but there you go.
@A_Melikishvili 🚨Meanwhile in France: Two Ukrainian women from Izyum were physically assaulted by unknown people (presumably Russians) for listening to Ukrainian music. This happened in seaside town of Roquebrune-Cap-Martin in southeastern France. Assailants fled. French police is investigating https://twitter.com/A_Melikishvili/status/1569296278256754694
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
No, not at all. For the same reason you dont filter opposing football fans into the same streams or opposing protestors into the same spot, where something is likely to cause a public order incident you move them on for their own safety/to maintain public order
Not at all, that's an authoritarian excuse to clamp down on peaceful protest.
Opposing football fans absolutely can, are and should be allowed to mingle together in public spaces. They're segregated on private property in the stadium, not by law in public places.
Individuals who are not breaking the law, should not be interfered with. If someone starts breaking the law, that is time for the Police to be involved, until then maybe the Police could try actually investigating burglaries or other crimes they claim not to have the resources to investigate instead of the law abiding.
So opposing protestors should be allowed to mingle then? There should be no police direction of football fans to the stadiums? In fact no policing at all unless a crime is committed?
Yes absolutely opposing protestors should be allowed to mingle, if no crime has been committed.
Large organised protests may be on separate routes, but individuals walking freely breaking no law absolutely should be able to mingle with those disagreeing with them.
They've actually charged the woman in Edinburgh with breach of the peace for holding up a sign. We're a democracy. Tolerating dissent should be one of our strengths.
This is well out of control. It's behaviour Russia and China would use.
Yes. Something's amiss. I think the BBC , and others, also need to just slightly shift the tone of coverage, while remaining generally respectful. The enforcers of the law are getting the message that no dissent is allowed because virtually none has been on air now, for three days.
It's interesting to see how quickly a slight shift to authoritarianism can develop from media sources.
Scotland is a lot less tolerant of minority views. You only have to see how inclusive the SNP are
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
No, not at all. For the same reason you dont filter opposing football fans into the same streams or opposing protestors into the same spot, where something is likely to cause a public order incident you move them on for their own safety/to maintain public order
Not at all, that's an authoritarian excuse to clamp down on peaceful protest.
Opposing football fans absolutely can, are and should be allowed to mingle together in public spaces. They're segregated on private property in the stadium, not by law in public places.
Individuals who are not breaking the law, should not be interfered with. If someone starts breaking the law, that is time for the Police to be involved, until then maybe the Police could try actually investigating burglaries or other crimes they claim not to have the resources to investigate instead of the law abiding.
So opposing protestors should be allowed to mingle then? There should be no police direction of football fans to the stadiums? In fact no policing at all unless a crime is committed?
Generally protests have strict rules governing them and it is all done under the auspices of the police (separate areas, timings, etc). Once the official protest has finished I can assure you that protesters "mingle" elsewhere. Same with footie fans.
It is quite amusing to see the Sweden Democrats branded in these articles as 'far right'. One day the 'far right' will actually come on the scene and make parties like the Sweden Democrats look like Nick Clegg circa 2010.
It does seem to me, looking at the changes that have taken place in Sweden through mass immigration and the failure of elements of multiculturalism, that there would inevitably be this type of political reaction.
The real question, for those genuinely concerned about the 'far right', is whether or not the Sweden Democracts and their likely partners can make any real progress at dealing with the situation that has emerged.
Hmm.
"At the height of the campaign, the SD billed a metro train decorated in its electoral colours as the “repatriation express”. “Welcome aboard with a one-way ticket. Next stop, Kabul,” tweeted the party’s legal spokesperson, highlighting the SD’s demand to remove non-European immigrants."
How different is all this to Theresa May's "go home or face arrest" vans circa 2012/2013? It just seems to me like it is all the same thing. I don't think that the Sweden Democrats have any actual, real policy of repatriating lawful immigrants, they are trying to deal with illegal immigration and abuses in the system. You may not like this which is fair enough. But you have to ask yourself the question, is it better for these concerns to be advanced through the democratic system, or in some other way? I don't really know Sweden well enough to say how I would vote, but it seems like there are lots of problems arising from mass immigration, including gun crime, which the liberal system is not dealing particularly well with.
Indeed.
The “liberal system”, as you describe it, has indeed failed regarding law & order and regarding integration. We all know that. It is rarely publicly acknowledged, but The Establishment in Sweden (which is all the parties excluding V and SD) have fucked up. Big time. We are going to fix it.
Which particular party are you identifying yourself with here, or do you mean the rightwing coalition as a whole ?
Hate to repeat myself for the umpteenth time, but there is no “rightwing coalition”.
I am identifying myself with mainstream Sweden, with ‘The Establishment’: S+M+C+KD+MP+L. We have fucked up. All of us. Big time. Integration is an absolute joke. Law and order is not being upheld. We, all of us in the heart of society, are going to fix that. The gangs are going to be utterly smashed.
The inclusion of the Sweden Democrats in the new Swedish government after this election arguably now gives Sweden the most populist right government in the Western world now, at least until Italy votes later this month.
Sweden? Who would have thought it!
God you are so thick. Absolutely infuriating. Why on earth do you keep saying things that are just utter nonsense?
“The inclusion of the Sweden Democrats in the new Swedish government”? WTF? Stop telling blatant lies. C&S is not the same as being in government.
Further, neither M nor KD - the two Min Gov parties - are “populist right”. M are like Tory Wets, and KD are ultra-liberals when compared to other Christian Democratic parties.
Without Sweden Democrats support now the Moderates will not get into power and as the second largest party the Sweden Democrats could certainly demand some government posts for their support.
SD being in government and having ministerial posts is a total impossibility. But then, if you had any knowledge whatsoever about Swedish current affairs, you’d know that.
You are, as always, an utter nincompoop.
No it isn't now. The SDs will be the largest party supporting the new government and even the BBC has pointed out Akesson now wants to be part of the new government, if not he could collapse it.
Akesson is now the Kingmaker whether you like it or not
I cannot be bothered spelling it out to you, because you *always* simply ignore when other posters correct you. You just keep on posting the same nonsense.
He is trying to tell you about Swedish politics is surreal
What worries me is, if a party is of the "right" they are good eggs in HY's book. He would have been thrilled by Hitler's election in 1932 without thinking through the consequences.
No, if I was Swedish I would vote Moderate not Sweden Democrat, I didn't even vote for Farage in the European elections.
However the reality of the numbers after Sweden's election is clear, the Sweden Democrats hold the balance of power
You do seem to get very excited when far right candidates vanquish the centre left. The far right, nor the far left should not be your friends as a One Nation Conservative. Authoritarian extremists are BAD whichever side of the fence they sit.
It is quite amusing to see the Sweden Democrats branded in these articles as 'far right'. One day the 'far right' will actually come on the scene and make parties like the Sweden Democrats look like Nick Clegg circa 2010.
It does seem to me, looking at the changes that have taken place in Sweden through mass immigration and the failure of elements of multiculturalism, that there would inevitably be this type of political reaction.
The real question, for those genuinely concerned about the 'far right', is whether or not the Sweden Democracts and their likely partners can make any real progress at dealing with the situation that has emerged.
Hmm.
"At the height of the campaign, the SD billed a metro train decorated in its electoral colours as the “repatriation express”. “Welcome aboard with a one-way ticket. Next stop, Kabul,” tweeted the party’s legal spokesperson, highlighting the SD’s demand to remove non-European immigrants."
How different is all this to Theresa May's "go home or face arrest" vans circa 2012/2013? It just seems to me like it is all the same thing. I don't think that the Sweden Democrats have any actual, real policy of repatriating lawful immigrants, they are trying to deal with illegal immigration and abuses in the system. You may not like this which is fair enough. But you have to ask yourself the question, is it better for these concerns to be advanced through the democratic system, or in some other way? I don't really know Sweden well enough to say how I would vote, but it seems like there are lots of problems arising from mass immigration, including gun crime, which the liberal system is not dealing particularly well with.
Indeed.
The “liberal system”, as you describe it, has indeed failed regarding law & order and regarding integration. We all know that. It is rarely publicly acknowledged, but The Establishment in Sweden (which is all the parties excluding V and SD) have fucked up. Big time. We are going to fix it.
Which particular party are you identifying yourself with here, or do you mean the rightwing coalition as a whole ?
Hate to repeat myself for the umpteenth time, but there is no “rightwing coalition”.
I am identifying myself with mainstream Sweden, with ‘The Establishment’: S+M+C+KD+MP+L. We have fucked up. All of us. Big time. Integration is an absolute joke. Law and order is not being upheld. We, all of us in the heart of society, are going to fix that. The gangs are going to be utterly smashed.
The inclusion of the Sweden Democrats in the new Swedish government after this election arguably now gives Sweden the most populist right government in the Western world now, at least until Italy votes later this month.
Sweden? Who would have thought it!
God you are so thick. Absolutely infuriating. Why on earth do you keep saying things that are just utter nonsense?
“The inclusion of the Sweden Democrats in the new Swedish government”? WTF? Stop telling blatant lies. C&S is not the same as being in government.
Further, neither M nor KD - the two Min Gov parties - are “populist right”. M are like Tory Wets, and KD are ultra-liberals when compared to other Christian Democratic parties.
Without Sweden Democrats support now the Moderates will not get into power and as the second largest party the Sweden Democrats could certainly demand some government posts for their support.
SD being in government and having ministerial posts is a total impossibility. But then, if you had any knowledge whatsoever about Swedish current affairs, you’d know that.
You are, as always, an utter nincompoop.
No it isn't now. The SDs will be the largest party supporting the new government and even the BBC has pointed out Akesson now wants to be part of the new government, if not he could collapse it.
Akesson is now the Kingmaker whether you like it or not
I cannot be bothered spelling it out to you, because you *always* simply ignore when other posters correct you. You just keep on posting the same nonsense.
He is trying to tell you about Swedish politics is surreal
What worries me is, if a party is of the "right" they are good eggs in HY's book. He would have been thrilled by Hitler's election in 1932 without thinking through the consequences.
No, if I was Swedish I would vote Moderate not Sweden Democrat, I didn't even vote for Farage in the European elections.
However the reality of the numbers after Sweden's election is clear, the Sweden Democrats hold the balance of power
You do seem to get very excited when far right candidates vanquish the centre left. The far right, nor the far left should not be your friends as a One Nation Conservative. Authoritarian extremists are BAD whichever side of the fence they sit.
Though of course the Social Democrats have done deals with the Left Party in Sweden
Off topic, and just popping by, but I would like to claim a definitive way to determine if you are in The North or The South.
I bring you "The P/G Ratio", where P is the number of branches of Pret in a town, and G is the number of branches of Greggs.
P/G > 1 = South P/G = 1 = Midlands P/G < 1 = North
Someone with a lot of time on their hands could generate a map to illustrate this...
Is this one of those culture war issues where you have to pick a side? I am a fan of both firms' output but Pret probably wins on the basis of its egg sarnies.
On eggs - are you a Big Endian or Little Endian?
Little. But I'm more of a fried egg an TBH. Much quicker.
Off topic, and just popping by, but I would like to claim a definitive way to determine if you are in The North or The South.
I bring you "The P/G Ratio", where P is the number of branches of Pret in a town, and G is the number of branches of Greggs.
P/G > 1 = South P/G = 1 = Midlands P/G < 1 = North
Someone with a lot of time on their hands could generate a map to illustrate this...
Brighton: 3 Prets, 3 Greggs. Midlands? Sorry, theory fails.
Hm. A quick Google reveals that there are 2229 branches of Greggs and only 460 of Pret in the UK. I proposed we need to introduce constant, Y, which is equal to 460/2229, or about 0.206:
PY/G > 1 = South PY/G = 1 = Midlands PY/G < 1 = North
Off topic, and just popping by, but I would like to claim a definitive way to determine if you are in The North or The South.
I bring you "The P/G Ratio", where P is the number of branches of Pret in a town, and G is the number of branches of Greggs.
P/G > 1 = South P/G = 1 = Midlands P/G < 1 = North
Someone with a lot of time on their hands could generate a map to illustrate this...
Is this one of those culture war issues where you have to pick a side? I am a fan of both firms' output but Pret probably wins on the basis of its egg sarnies.
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
No, not at all. For the same reason you dont filter opposing football fans into the same streams or opposing protestors into the same spot, where something is likely to cause a public order incident you move them on for their own safety/to maintain public order
Not at all, that's an authoritarian excuse to clamp down on peaceful protest.
Opposing football fans absolutely can, are and should be allowed to mingle together in public spaces. They're segregated on private property in the stadium, not by law in public places.
Individuals who are not breaking the law, should not be interfered with. If someone starts breaking the law, that is time for the Police to be involved, until then maybe the Police could try actually investigating burglaries or other crimes they claim not to have the resources to investigate instead of the law abiding.
I'm assuming they werent arrested, in which case its for their safety. Febrile atmosphere when feelings are high. Its the same reason oppising view marches are kept apart, its in the interests of keeping the peace. He must be allowed to express that opinion, but not at the potential ridk of public order. Yes, anyone attacking him could and should be arrested but that won't unbreak his nose etc
I, for one, really do not like the use of arrest to “protect people” or “protect their rights”.
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
Nor do i, but they werent arrested afaics
They weren't breaking a law AFAICS either, so the Police should not be involved.
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
No, not at all. For the same reason you dont filter opposing football fans into the same streams or opposing protestors into the same spot, where something is likely to cause a public order incident you move them on for their own safety/to maintain public order
Not at all, that's an authoritarian excuse to clamp down on peaceful protest.
Opposing football fans absolutely can, are and should be allowed to mingle together in public spaces. They're segregated on private property in the stadium, not by law in public places.
Individuals who are not breaking the law, should not be interfered with. If someone starts breaking the law, that is time for the Police to be involved, until then maybe the Police could try actually investigating burglaries or other crimes they claim not to have the resources to investigate instead of the law abiding.
Sometimes prevention is better than cure.
I think we're seeing a little too much in the way of "prevention" in the last few days. I'm not a republican, and I support the mourning period for the Queen, but it needs to be much clearer across the media that our system of constitutional monarchy is in place to support democracy, not autocracy. It might be uncomfortable for people, but in this sense banning protests from the proclamation of a new monarch is pointless.
I err towards police not interfering with protesters as long as the protestors aren't interfering with other citizens. The Scottish protestor would probably have been arrested automatically up until very recently just walking down the road with that placard (or a similar t shirt) due to the wording being deemed offensive and also likely to provoke disorder rather than the viewpoint expressed.
I err towards police not interfering with protesters as long as the protestors aren't interfering with other citizens. The Scottish protestor would probably have been arrested automatically up until very recently just walking down the road with that placard (or a similar t shirt) due to the wording being deemed offensive and also likely to provoke disorder rather than the viewpoint expressed.
This thread has
made another gesture towards an inkpot after the first one was apparently ignored
Comments
I bring you "The P/G Ratio", where P is the number of branches of Pret in a town, and G is the number of branches of Greggs.
P/G > 1 = South
P/G = 1 = Midlands
P/G < 1 = North
Someone with a lot of time on their hands could generate a map to illustrate this...
Titter titter, guffaw etc
Truss v Starmer will be a contest that either can win
It's interesting to see how quickly a slight shift to authoritarianism can develop from media sources.
Would the state start buying futures at that point? could it?
If we need a new category, fine. Arrest should be for people seriously suspected of an actual crime.
He's right about US self-interest being one of the top priorities - that's been the case since forever. eg Destroyers for bases, and machinations to end Far East empires in WW2. But its also the case for everyone else, too - when Germany came up with its putative €100bn for defence the first conversations I heard were around "how can we use this to boost exports". UK is the same; it is a high priority.
The stuff about lend-lease is not very convincing, since (afaik) it has not started yet despite the claim that current weaponry is supplied that way. In WW2 lend-lease was charged in the end at 10% of face value iirc, and even then much was not paid back.
What I do not see mentioned are the large amounts of Ukrainian farmland now owned by US (and other) investors,
Funny old game.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2022/sep/12/queen-elizabeth-edinburgh-coffin-lie-in-state-funeral-king-charles-westminster-hall-palace-holyroodhouse-live-news?page=with:block-631f1a158f087fa006e15edb#block-631f1a158f087fa006e15edb
Whether there are any pragmatic politicians left in Russia is perhaps doubtful.
@HYUFD cannot accept he is gone, I celebrate totally that he is out of office
I proposed we need to introduce constant, Y, which is equal to 460/2229, or about 0.206:
PY/G > 1 = South
PY/G = 1 = Midlands
PY/G < 1 = North
That may work better?
The Police should look to deal with criminals, not the law abiding controversial.
It would surely be tempting to lock in some of the risk if prices really did come down, I'm not sure if the government would or could do that.
Opposing football fans absolutely can, are and should be allowed to mingle together in public spaces. They're segregated on private property in the stadium, not by law in public places.
Individuals who are not breaking the law, should not be interfered with. If someone starts breaking the law, that is time for the Police to be involved, until then maybe the Police could try actually investigating burglaries or other crimes they claim not to have the resources to investigate instead of the law abiding.
The cost is touted at USD150bn over 2 years, but if the wholesale price fell far enough, I guess it could be zero...??
I just wonder what the numbers are...?
Something to do with the brexit and your opposition to it maybe
I am compiling a list of people who are offensive to me for just existing. Charity chuggers and Communists for a start.
It's a "fit congregation" strategy in the CofE to make everyone carry all those pages around that only get used once in an average lifetime
Large organised protests may be on separate routes, but individuals walking freely breaking no law absolutely should be able to mingle with those disagreeing with them.
gestured at an inkpot.
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1569270901685862403?s=21&t=VjJtbyoWbK46ePrHVRtiAg
One moral of the story could be, that if you want a fully functioning democratic society, don't put constant pressure on your state broadcaster to tow a particular line. The BBC isn't perfect itself, either, ofcourse, with a disproportionate focus in the last few years on identity-led issues over massive social inequalities which it hardy dares speak of, unlike in the 1990's and 1980's , but there you go.
Both did very well in Monaco, Perez winning and Sainz coming 2nd.
@A_Melikishvili
🚨Meanwhile in France: Two Ukrainian women from Izyum were physically assaulted by unknown people (presumably Russians) for listening to Ukrainian music. This happened in seaside town of Roquebrune-Cap-Martin in southeastern France. Assailants fled. French police is investigating
https://twitter.com/A_Melikishvili/status/1569296278256754694
made another gesture towards an inkpot after the first one was apparently ignored