Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

5 days before becoming PM Brown faced a tough BBC grilling – politicalbetting.com

124

Comments

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,477

    Gorbachev has died.

    Of a broken heart, presumably.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    edited August 2022
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mariupol - Russian shelling caused 87,000 dead, a further 26,000 still to be identified.

    Compare with Nagasaki - 40,000 dead.

    Hamburg firestorm - 30,000.

    Dresden - 25,000

    Just in Mariupol? Are you sure? That would be about a quarter of the entire population which seems extraordinary.
    Source: https://twitter.com/HOnyshchenko/status/1564369574123954176
    Hmmm. One source. Every other estimate is one-third of that.

    Which is still a shockingly high casualty rate, and an appalling and almost unimaginable human tragedy, but not bizarrely out of line with what would be expected from the way the Russians attacked.

    Inflating the figures doesn't help. Look at the trouble it caused when Irving forged the figures for the numbers who died in Dresden, for example.
    It would not surprise me if that were an underestimate.
    It was clear some time back that the barbarity in Mariupol was of WWII proportions.
    That death toll would be four times the barbarity of WWII proportions.

    Which is why unless confirmation emerges I'm treating it with scepticism.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,268
    An absolutely massive blast in Kherson tonight: reminds me of Beirut.

    https://twitter.com/Ukrainene/status/1564709618168774657

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    carnforth said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    Of a broken heart, presumably.
    Can't have been easy for him as a mixed Russo-Ukrainian seeing the last few months.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    carnforth said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    Of a broken heart, presumably.
    If these latest casualty stats are in any way accurate then the final death toll of this Satanic war will be in the MILLIONS

    My God. My God
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    Indeed.
    What might have been to be honest.
    Although his achievements are plenty enough. That rare thing. A Russian leader who seemed to give a monkey's about the welfare of the ordinary people.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 925
    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Cheers,

    Been looking at the 'Bistrots' too. Maybe good wine and seafood from a corner place is preferable?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    Sad news wrt Mikhail Gorbachev.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Good at raising Russia's profile. Not so great for ordinary people. Her big idea was to import her fellow Germans so they would all get an even bigger inferiority complex, and work them half to death to pay for her grand schemes. Which explains why they kept rebelling.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Good at raising Russia's profile. Not so great for ordinary people. Her big idea was to import her fellow Germans so they would all get an even bigger inferiority complex, and work them half to death to pay for her grand schemes. Which explains why they kept rebelling.
    The perils of falling for advertising. You could also see Pompey for this.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    Off topic. What are Chelsea playing at?

    On Topic. I did think early on, her Party realised she is not remotely prime minister stuff and she wouldn’t make top two. There are better politicians in the Tory parliamentary party, despite Boris doing his best to promote useless brown nosers - so it’s a bit stupid really.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506
    edited August 2022
    Grimly amusing from zerohedge - Europe is still importing a shit ton of Russian gas, just after it's been through China and got a huge mark up. Huzzah!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-aggressively-reselling-russian-gas-europe
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,594

    Grimly amusing from zerohedge - Europe is still importing a shit ton of Russian gas, just after it's been through China and got a huge mark up. Huzzah!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-aggressively-reselling-russian-gas-europe

    https://twitter.com/dolangeraldine/status/1564392353300889603?s=21&t=q2ysNrVKLVTUJ7Up9onb3A

    Ouch
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,576
    Taz said:

    Grimly amusing from zerohedge - Europe is still importing a shit ton of Russian gas, just after it's been through China and got a huge mark up. Huzzah!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-aggressively-reselling-russian-gas-europe

    https://twitter.com/dolangeraldine/status/1564392353300889603?s=21&t=q2ysNrVKLVTUJ7Up9onb3A

    Ouch
    I blame Brexit.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 1,059
    First, my apologies from the United States for Megan. We produce more such types than we ought, but usually they don't disrupt other people's governments.

    That said, I have a little sympathy for her. She wanted to be an actress, like so many young women here do, but doesn't have any great skills at her craft. Worse yet, she doesn't fit into any of the "types" that Hollywood still wants for its movies. She doesn't look black enough to play black parts, she doesn't look Hispanic at all, and even with dye, she couldn't play a blonde bombshell. And Hollywood has yet to pay much attention to the growing number of mixed race people in the United States.

    So I can understand why she might think life was unfair.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,148

    Grimly amusing from zerohedge - Europe is still importing a shit ton of Russian gas, just after it's been through China and got a huge mark up. Huzzah!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-aggressively-reselling-russian-gas-europe


    Zerohedge is reliably wrong about many things. Why believe their analysis here?
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,243

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Catherine was German.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    edited August 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Catherine was German.
    Still the Russian leader though. And she was Great!

    Would you like to talk us through you avatar Verulamius?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506

    First, my apologies from the United States for Megan. We produce more such types than we ought, but usually they don't disrupt other people's governments.

    That said, I have a little sympathy for her. She wanted to be an actress, like so many young women here do, but doesn't have any great skills at her craft. Worse yet, she doesn't fit into any of the "types" that Hollywood still wants for its movies. She doesn't look black enough to play black parts, she doesn't look Hispanic at all, and even with dye, she couldn't play a blonde bombshell. And Hollywood has yet to pay much attention to the growing number of mixed race people in the United States.

    So I can understand why she might think life was unfair.

    I’ve never seen her in anything so can't judge her acting, but there are a lot of talented and beautiful actresses who never land a big role, so she's obviously had some breaks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,148
    edited August 2022

    An absolutely massive blast in Kherson tonight: reminds me of Beirut.

    https://twitter.com/Ukrainene/status/1564709618168774657

    Someone smoking Lucky Strikes on guard duty. Again.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,317
    Wow. Timing of Gorbachev death is interesting to say the least.
  • Good news

    Centrica receives permission to reopen rough at a cost of 2 billion
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,344

    Wow. Timing of Gorbachev death is interesting to say the least.

    Normally you’d expect a big state funeral with all the key world leaders attending.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,876
    Very sad news about Gorbachev, a genuinely good man, who did his best to end the Cold War peacefully and with dignity for the USSR. He couldn't stop the collapse of the USSR and is reviled by many Russians as a result, but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we might only be here today because of Gorbachev's leadership.
  • Wow. Timing of Gorbachev death is interesting to say the least.

    When we visited Moscow in 1989 Gorbachev was speaking in the Kremlin live on the hotel TV

    Great person unlike the evil Putin
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506

    Good news

    Centrica receives permission to reopen rough at a cost of 2 billion

    About ****ing time. Should have happened months ago.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 43,012
    edited August 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Catherine was German.
    Darling - "Look, I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"
    Blackadder - "So your father's German, you're half-German, and you married a German?"
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,243

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Catherine was German.
    Still the Russian leader though. And she was Great!

    Would you like to talk us through you avatar Verulamius?
    A sea god mosaic from Verulamium.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506

    Wow. Timing of Gorbachev death is interesting to say the least.

    Normally you’d expect a big state funeral with all the key world leaders attending.
    Liz won't attend - she prefers a small state.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    glw said:

    Very sad news about Gorbachev, a genuinely good man, who did his best to end the Cold War peacefully and with dignity for the USSR. He couldn't stop the collapse of the USSR and is reviled by many Russians as a result, but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we might only be here today because of Gorbachev's leadership.

    I think it's going a bit far to call him a 'genuinely good man.' He was a senior member of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. You don't rise to th top of that by being nice to children and furry creatures. He was quite happy to use repression and terror when it suited him. It's just that he realised, in the long run, it wouldn't achieve much so with exceptions he chose not to. That, in itself, sets him apart from the likes of Brezhnev, Stalin or even Khrushchev.

    The issue was his alternatives, while they brought about significant changes, didn't actually work as he wanted to.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682

    Wow. Timing of Gorbachev death is interesting to say the least.

    Normally you’d expect a big state funeral with all the key world leaders attending.
    Liz won't attend - she prefers a small state.
    She's certainly going to be diminishing Britain.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,073
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mariupol - Russian shelling caused 87,000 dead, a further 26,000 still to be identified.

    Compare with Nagasaki - 40,000 dead.

    Hamburg firestorm - 30,000.

    Dresden - 25,000

    Just in Mariupol? Are you sure? That would be about a quarter of the entire population which seems extraordinary.
    Source: https://twitter.com/HOnyshchenko/status/1564369574123954176
    Hmmm. One source. Every other estimate is one-third of that.

    Which is still a shockingly high casualty rate, and an appalling and almost unimaginable human tragedy, but not bizarrely out of line with what would be expected from the way the Russians attacked.

    Inflating the figures doesn't help. Look at the trouble it caused when Irving forged the figures for the numbers who died in Dresden, for example.
    Even one third of that is 30,000 people - ie a new Hamburg or Dresden

    Putin has Grozny'd Mariupol, and other cities, and will do the same to every town he can, given the chance

    It is difficult to think about
    "he was something absolutely modern and up-to-date that only this ghastly age could produce. A tiny bit of a man pretending he was the whole."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Catherine was German.
    George - "Look, I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"
    Blackadder - "So your father's German, you're half-German, and you married a German?"
    Darling, not George.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,148
    glw said:

    Very sad news about Gorbachev, a genuinely good man, who did his best to end the Cold War peacefully and with dignity for the USSR. He couldn't stop the collapse of the USSR and is reviled by many Russians as a result, but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we might only be here today because of Gorbachev's leadership.

    I remember PJ O’Rourke’s comment on Gorbachev - that he was a visionary in the same way that Hirohito was after Nagasaki.

    He had choices - let Russia collapse in fire and blood, simply let it fall apart or build something. He went for B. C would have meant abandoning the USSR - and he was a man of the system to the bitter end.

    Because of the resulting chaos in Russia, China moved away from any political reform…. Which gave us Xi, in the end.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506

    Wow. Timing of Gorbachev death is interesting to say the least.

    Normally you’d expect a big state funeral with all the key world leaders attending.
    Liz won't attend - she prefers a small state.
    She's certainly going to be diminishing Britain.
    She could diminish it by The Environment Agency and BEIS and deserve canonisation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mariupol - Russian shelling caused 87,000 dead, a further 26,000 still to be identified.

    Compare with Nagasaki - 40,000 dead.

    Hamburg firestorm - 30,000.

    Dresden - 25,000

    Just in Mariupol? Are you sure? That would be about a quarter of the entire population which seems extraordinary.
    Source: https://twitter.com/HOnyshchenko/status/1564369574123954176
    Hmmm. One source. Every other estimate is one-third of that.

    Which is still a shockingly high casualty rate, and an appalling and almost unimaginable human tragedy, but not bizarrely out of line with what would be expected from the way the Russians attacked.

    Inflating the figures doesn't help. Look at the trouble it caused when Irving forged the figures for the numbers who died in Dresden, for example.
    It would not surprise me if that were an underestimate.
    It was clear some time back that the barbarity in Mariupol was of WWII proportions.
    That death toll would be four times the barbarity of WWII proportions.

    Which is why unless confirmation emerges I'm treating it with scepticism.
    Agreed on that.
    And any single account of numbers emerging from Ukraine needs to be treated sceptically.

    But there was estimates of at least 20,000 civilian deaths back in April - and widely reported satellite images of multiple mass grave sites, along with mobile Russian crematoria.
    Large parts of the city have been destroyed with weaponry significantly more powerful than that of WWII, and there has been no systematic collection of corpses.

    And they have reportedly has a mass cholera outbreak since then.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    edited August 2022

    Grimly amusing from zerohedge - Europe is still importing a shit ton of Russian gas, just after it's been through China and got a huge mark up. Huzzah!
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-aggressively-reselling-russian-gas-europe

    Europe is importing a shit tonne of Russian gas - just through pipelines.

    The story there doesn't make a whole bunch of sense. Russian LNG cargoes go from one of two terminals - Arctic LNG (which is small, but near to Europe, being close to Marmunsk) and Sakhalin LNG (which is enormous, and is on the Pacific coast v. near Japan). Also remember that the bottleneck in the LNG market is not LNG liquefaction capacity, but shipping capacity.

    No LNG cargoes are going from Arctic LNG to China to Europe.

    I guess it's possible for Sakhalin cargoes to go to China to Europe. But why would they? The Japanese are more than happy to buy the cargoes directly - and have dramatically stepped up there.

    Given current LNG shipping day rates of (*cough*) up to $250,000 per day, what has almost certainly happened is that for cargoes in transit, you will have seen LNG shipping operators looking to minimize transportation times. So we might order a shipment of Qatar LNG, but actually be delivered a shipment of Texan LNG. Some Russian LNG could easily have reached Europe that way, with someone, like India or Japan who has contracted Russian LNG getting Peruvian gas, while the Russian gas headed towards Europe.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,911
     Fantastic intro to an appreciation of Gorbachev by Steve Rosenberg on R4 just now - Steve on the piano and Mikhail singing.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Catherine was German.
    Darling - "Look, I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"
    Blackadder - "So your father's German, you're half-German, and you married a German?"
    Darling, not George.
    "Funny name for a guy, isn't it? Last person I called "Darling" was pregnant 20 seconds later!" - Flashheart.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298

    glw said:

    Very sad news about Gorbachev, a genuinely good man, who did his best to end the Cold War peacefully and with dignity for the USSR. He couldn't stop the collapse of the USSR and is reviled by many Russians as a result, but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we might only be here today because of Gorbachev's leadership.

    I remember PJ O’Rourke’s comment on Gorbachev - that he was a visionary in the same way that Hirohito was after Nagasaki.

    He had choices - let Russia collapse in fire and blood, simply let it fall apart or build something. He went for B. C would have meant abandoning the USSR - and he was a man of the system to the bitter end.

    Because of the resulting chaos in Russia, China moved away from any political reform…. Which gave us Xi, in the end.
    Reagan and Thatcher were big fans.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Catherine was German.
    Darling - "Look, I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"
    Blackadder - "So your father's German, you're half-German, and you married a German?"
    Darling, not George.
    "Funny name for a guy, isn't it? Last person I called "Darling" was pregnant 20 seconds later!" - Flashheart.
    Ducking the issue again?

    'Dinner time Fido!'
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    geoffw said:

     Fantastic intro to an appreciation of Gorbachev by Steve Rosenberg on R4 just now - Steve on the piano and Mikhail singing.

    One for Rosenberg to tell his grandkids!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Catherine was German.
    Still the Russian leader though. And she was Great!

    Would you like to talk us through you avatar Verulamius?
    A sea god mosaic from Verulamium.
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sea_God_Mosaic,_160-190_AD,_Verulamium_Museum,_St_Albans_(14212743925).jpg

    Or maybe God of the woods
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    Wow. Timing of Gorbachev death is interesting to say the least.

    Normally you’d expect a big state funeral with all the key world leaders attending.
    Johnson is already heading to the airport.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,876

    glw said:

    Very sad news about Gorbachev, a genuinely good man, who did his best to end the Cold War peacefully and with dignity for the USSR. He couldn't stop the collapse of the USSR and is reviled by many Russians as a result, but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we might only be here today because of Gorbachev's leadership.

    I remember PJ O’Rourke’s comment on Gorbachev - that he was a visionary in the same way that Hirohito was after Nagasaki.

    He had choices - let Russia collapse in fire and blood, simply let it fall apart or build something. He went for B. C would have meant abandoning the USSR - and he was a man of the system to the bitter end.

    Because of the resulting chaos in Russia, China moved away from any political reform…. Which gave us Xi, in the end.
    I don't think we should undervalue the whole avoiding WW III and Civil War, it was by no means certain that the dissolution of the USSR would be relatively peaceful, obviously not absolutely peaceful, but all things considered a catastrophe was avoided.

    I still remember waking up to hear the news of the 1991 coup on Radio 4 and thinking "Jesus Christ! Is this the start of a war?"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    Germany raids companies suspected of selling precursor chemicals to Russia that could be used to manufacture chemical weapons such as Novichok

    One of them is Riol Chemie GmbH which made more than 30 shipments to Russia without export permits -OCCRP

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1564721301641695243
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Cheers,

    Been looking at the 'Bistrots' too. Maybe good wine and seafood from a corner place is preferable?
    Yes, I would say so

    The Michelin stuff is insanely expensive, and often not very good

    Paris is still pretty great for classic dishes in mid-priced places, where they are just trying to serve Parisians, not impress inspectors or fleece tourists. Indeed, head away from the super touristy areas near the Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Ile de la Cite, try places like Montparnasse or around Bastille

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,798
    Nigelb said:

    Germany raids companies suspected of selling precursor chemicals to Russia that could be used to manufacture chemical weapons such as Novichok

    One of them is Riol Chemie GmbH which made more than 30 shipments to Russia without export permits -OCCRP

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1564721301641695243

    Do we know if there have been any chemical weapon attacks in Ukraine? A contrast to Russian tactics in Syria if not.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,682
    glw said:

    glw said:

    Very sad news about Gorbachev, a genuinely good man, who did his best to end the Cold War peacefully and with dignity for the USSR. He couldn't stop the collapse of the USSR and is reviled by many Russians as a result, but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we might only be here today because of Gorbachev's leadership.

    I remember PJ O’Rourke’s comment on Gorbachev - that he was a visionary in the same way that Hirohito was after Nagasaki.

    He had choices - let Russia collapse in fire and blood, simply let it fall apart or build something. He went for B. C would have meant abandoning the USSR - and he was a man of the system to the bitter end.

    Because of the resulting chaos in Russia, China moved away from any political reform…. Which gave us Xi, in the end.
    I don't think we should undervalue the whole avoiding WW III and Civil War, it was by no means certain that the dissolution of the USSR would be relatively peaceful, obviously not absolutely peaceful, but all things considered a catastrophe was avoided.

    I still remember waking up to hear the news of the 1991 coup on Radio 4 and thinking "Jesus Christ! Is this the start of a war?"
    I was in the Czech countryside at the time, and suddenly everyone went to fill their cars and every petrol station had massive queues, or had run out of fuel. We could only find out what was going on by trying to listen to the world service with very poor reception. Potentially dramatic times.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,317
    Could someone please give me a source for where these 80,000 deaths in Mariupol are being reported. So far as I'm aware nothing like this has come out before and it's an interesting time for such revelations to become public.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    ...

  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    glw said:

    glw said:

    Very sad news about Gorbachev, a genuinely good man, who did his best to end the Cold War peacefully and with dignity for the USSR. He couldn't stop the collapse of the USSR and is reviled by many Russians as a result, but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we might only be here today because of Gorbachev's leadership.

    I remember PJ O’Rourke’s comment on Gorbachev - that he was a visionary in the same way that Hirohito was after Nagasaki.

    He had choices - let Russia collapse in fire and blood, simply let it fall apart or build something. He went for B. C would have meant abandoning the USSR - and he was a man of the system to the bitter end.

    Because of the resulting chaos in Russia, China moved away from any political reform…. Which gave us Xi, in the end.
    I don't think we should undervalue the whole avoiding WW III and Civil War, it was by no means certain that the dissolution of the USSR would be relatively peaceful, obviously not absolutely peaceful, but all things considered a catastrophe was avoided.

    I still remember waking up to hear the news of the 1991 coup on Radio 4 and thinking "Jesus Christ! Is this the start of a war?"
    Yes. He was not as good as he could have been - but he was also massively better than he might have been.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 32,309
    Cyclefree said:

    Paging @Luckyguy1983

    @SebastianEPayne
    When Liz Truss met Antony Blinken for the first time last year, the meeting was not so diplomatic.

    Truss questioned the 'special relationship': “her attitude was ‘what have you done for me lately?'"


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1564223445478658051

    This may seem like a strange question but bear with me. How valued is British intelligence and British military help to the US really?

    British spies for the Russians from Fuchs onwards betrayed nuclear secrets and human contacts. British intelligence did not exactly cover itself in glory over Iraq. Nor the British army.

    So how valued are we? Or is this another case of the British bigging ourselves up in a way which is not really justified?
    GCHQ is enormously important. British military training in Ukraine has been significant.

    The USA values having allies in its campaigns.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    edited August 2022

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    Ive been given gingerbread and cheese (in NE Scotland). Not sure if that is the same logic as I have never eaten FG.
  • Not sure if this has been posted already, but very moving and amusing article about Mikhail Gorbachev https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62062852 seemed like a genuinely good guy, quite a contrast with the current leader
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
    Hi Viz to the very end.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,148
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Paging @Luckyguy1983

    @SebastianEPayne
    When Liz Truss met Antony Blinken for the first time last year, the meeting was not so diplomatic.

    Truss questioned the 'special relationship': “her attitude was ‘what have you done for me lately?'"


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1564223445478658051

    This may seem like a strange question but bear with me. How valued is British intelligence and British military help to the US really?

    British spies for the Russians from Fuchs onwards betrayed nuclear secrets and human contacts. British intelligence did not exactly cover itself in glory over Iraq. Nor the British army.

    So how valued are we? Or is this another case of the British bigging ourselves up in a way which is not really justified?
    GCHQ is enormously important. British military training in Ukraine has been significant.

    The USA values having allies in its campaigns.
    U.K. and US nuclear weapon design is so intertwined that some observers say that both use effectively joint designs. That is, US weapons incorporate U.K. ideas, in addition to the well known sharing of US designs with the U.K.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    Ive been given gingerbread and cheese (in NE Scotland). Not sure if that is the same logic as I have never eaten FG.
    It's not a bad comparison. A lot of umami in cheese as in foie gras

    Unfortunately - given the methods of production - foie gras is delicious
  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,345
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Generally in the UK you get what you pay for. In France and Italy I have had some average meals, but then every so often you get a humdinger for a reasonable price. I got a fantastic meal at a workman's cafe in France. No choice. In Florence, we were in a hotel on the outskirts and asked for a recommendation. We ate there every night for the 3 nights we were there it was so good. In France a back street cafe served me a simple duck and salad, but it was beautiful. All these meals were dirt cheap. Spent lots more on really average meals in both countries.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm used to being in a minority of one on most things - I quite like Harry and Meghan. They seem a pretty well-adjusted couple who have chosen to live the life they want rather than play their part in the Royal Family theme park.

    I've no real issue with them living in California and her views don't bother me in the least.

    Why they attract such anger and ridicule is beyond me - I realise the money might anger some people but in the cosmic scheme of things does it matter that much?

    It is fairly simple. There are still plenty of people who don't like independent women with opinions, particularly when foreign to boot.

    If the Royals and Tabloids really were bothered by her "attention seeking" then they should ignore her. Instead it is the Two Minute Hate every month.

    I think Meghan and Harry are fairly well meaning celebs who don't really fir anymore in either tinsel town or stuffy heritage Britain. They will find their own place.
    Really tedious gammon dressed as wokery, why not say the same about Prince Andrew, substituting "fat white male" as appropriate?

    I read the Meghan interview so you don't have to. Point one, she accuses senior palace staff of using "the N word" about her children, and I would go to the stake about that being a lie. If she wanted to make claims about subtle, perhaps unconscious racism I'd give her a hearing, but N? Naah. Secondly, she said her objection to being in the RF was being deprived of the opportunity to tell her love story. I mean, f me, do you or did you or your wife at a comparable age feel an unbearable compulsion to relay their love story to complete strangers? Or anyone you have ever met or read about? Does wishing to do so count as an opinion?

    You should pay heed to the words of MLK and judge this atrociously awful woman by the content of her character rather than the colour of her skin.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
    Grauniad clearly pissed at having to shrink its ALL THE POOR ARE GOING TO STARVE TO DEATH headline to make room.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,810

    Wow. Timing of Gorbachev death is interesting to say the least.

    Normally you’d expect a big state funeral with all the key world leaders attending.
    Liz won't attend - she prefers a small state.
    She's certainly going to be diminishing Britain.
    She could diminish it by The Environment Agency and BEIS and deserve canonisation.
    Northern Ireland wouldn't be missed at all either.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,810
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Paging @Luckyguy1983

    @SebastianEPayne
    When Liz Truss met Antony Blinken for the first time last year, the meeting was not so diplomatic.

    Truss questioned the 'special relationship': “her attitude was ‘what have you done for me lately?'"


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1564223445478658051

    This may seem like a strange question but bear with me. How valued is British intelligence and British military help to the US really?

    British spies for the Russians from Fuchs onwards betrayed nuclear secrets and human contacts. British intelligence did not exactly cover itself in glory over Iraq. Nor the British army.

    So how valued are we? Or is this another case of the British bigging ourselves up in a way which is not really justified?
    GCHQ is enormously important. British military training in Ukraine has been significant.

    The USA values having allies in its campaigns.
    Various British bases overseas, such as Cyprus, Ascension and Diego Garcia, are also very useful.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
    Grauniad clearly pissed at having to shrink its ALL THE POOR ARE GOING TO STARVE TO DEATH headline to make room.
    Eh? The headline is exact same size.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 1,059
    Cyclefree asked: "This may seem like a strange question but bear with me. How valued is British intelligence and British military help to the US really?"

    Not as much as we should, in my opinion. An example: During the early stages of the war in Afghanistan, we learned that some British citizens were being held hostage. An American force went in to rescue them, and failed, tragically. In my opinion, we should have left the decision to go in to the British commander, and, if he decided on a rescue attempt, a British force should have made the attack. (With, if necessary, logistic support from the United States.)

    But I will admit that I have never seen any polling on your "strange" question, and will tell you, if you haven't already guessed it already, that my opinions are not always in the majority.

    For example, I think the Scots and the English should be better friends in Britain, as they often are, here. Judging by the comments here, that puts me very much in a minority.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    edited August 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
    Grauniad clearly pissed at having to shrink its ALL THE POOR ARE GOING TO STARVE TO DEATH headline to make room.
    Food banks running out of food, already taking measures to ration what they can give, is a worthy news story in my humble opinion, it’s the first one I noticed and started reading.

    The juxtaposition with the vanity of Boris “we got all the big calls right” tour just sums up the “in it for myself, and I’m doing alright Jack” mentality of some of our fellow Britons, to put these clowns in power in the first place.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,506
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    Ive been given gingerbread and cheese (in NE Scotland). Not sure if that is the same logic as I have never eaten FG.
    Dundee cake and blue cheese is amaaaaaazing tho. Christmas cake works too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
    Grauniad clearly pissed at having to shrink its ALL THE POOR ARE GOING TO STARVE TO DEATH headline to make room.
    Eh? The headline is exact same size.
    Well yes, therefore the foodbank story could be twice the size but for Gorby.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gorbachev has died.

    One of the giants of the 20th Century.
    The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev.

    Which given he oversaw its collapse, says a lot about the others and not in at all a good way.

    *AKA the Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991.
    “The second best leader of the Russian Empire,* after Khrushchev”

    Whaaaaaaaaat? What about Catherine?

    I’ll allow you to swap Russia for Soviet.

    Huzzah!
    Catherine was German.
    Darling - "Look, I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"
    Blackadder - "So your father's German, you're half-German, and you married a German?"
    Darling, not George.
    "Funny name for a guy, isn't it? Last person I called "Darling" was pregnant 20 seconds later!" - Flashheart.
    Ducking the issue again?

    'Dinner time Fido!'
    My moneys on George not Darling, it sounds so obviously from the third.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
    Grauniad clearly pissed at having to shrink its ALL THE POOR ARE GOING TO STARVE TO DEATH headline to make room.
    Food banks running out of food, already taking measures to ration what they can give, is a worthy news story in my humble opinion, it’s the first one I noticed and started reading.

    The juxtaposition with the vanity of Boris “we got all the big calls right” tour just sums up the “in it for myself, and I’m doing alright Jack” mentality of some of our fellow Britons, to put these clowns in power in the first place.
    Tories are utterly fecked when the food banks run out.

    We are talking civil unrest.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Generally in the UK you get what you pay for. In France and Italy I have had some average meals, but then every so often you get a humdinger for a reasonable price. I got a fantastic meal at a workman's cafe in France. No choice. In Florence, we were in a hotel on the outskirts and asked for a recommendation. We ate there every night for the 3 nights we were there it was so good. In France a back street cafe served me a simple duck and salad, but it was beautiful. All these meals were dirt cheap. Spent lots more on really average meals in both countries.
    In Italy the iron law is: the poorer the region, the better the food

    The best food of all is probably in Calabria. If you go to high end Calabrian places you pay mid-range Roman prices and get sublime food. The Ndrangheta like to be well fed

    Behind Calabria come Sicily, Naples, and so on. Yummy

    In the richer areas it is not so good. The super touristy places can be severely disappointing. Florence, Venice, Capri. Milan can be mediocre, too

    The exception to this law is the far north and Trentino, Friuli etc. Quite wealthy, or very wealthy, and the food is great
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Generally in the UK you get what you pay for. In France and Italy I have had some average meals, but then every so often you get a humdinger for a reasonable price. I got a fantastic meal at a workman's cafe in France. No choice. In Florence, we were in a hotel on the outskirts and asked for a recommendation. We ate there every night for the 3 nights we were there it was so good. In France a back street cafe served me a simple duck and salad, but it was beautiful. All these meals were dirt cheap. Spent lots more on really average meals in both countries.
    In Italy the iron law is: the poorer the region, the better the food

    The best food of all is probably in Calabria. If you go to high end Calabrian places you pay mid-range Roman prices and get sublime food. The Ndrangheta like to be well fed

    Behind Calabria come Sicily, Naples, and so on. Yummy

    In the richer areas it is not so good. The super touristy places can be severely disappointing. Florence, Venice, Capri. Milan can be mediocre, too

    The exception to this law is the far north and Trentino, Friuli etc. Quite wealthy, or very wealthy, and the food is great
    Too far North and you get into all that awful Alpine bacony cheesy lardy kinda stuff

    Contemplating popping over to Calabria next week. Will report.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Generally in the UK you get what you pay for. In France and Italy I have had some average meals, but then every so often you get a humdinger for a reasonable price. I got a fantastic meal at a workman's cafe in France. No choice. In Florence, we were in a hotel on the outskirts and asked for a recommendation. We ate there every night for the 3 nights we were there it was so good. In France a back street cafe served me a simple duck and salad, but it was beautiful. All these meals were dirt cheap. Spent lots more on really average meals in both countries.
    In Italy the iron law is: the poorer the region, the better the food

    The best food of all is probably in Calabria. If you go to high end Calabrian places you pay mid-range Roman prices and get sublime food. The Ndrangheta like to be well fed

    Behind Calabria come Sicily, Naples, and so on. Yummy

    In the richer areas it is not so good. The super touristy places can be severely disappointing. Florence, Venice, Capri. Milan can be mediocre, too

    The exception to this law is the far north and Trentino, Friuli etc. Quite wealthy, or very wealthy, and the food is great
    Too far North and you get into all that awful Alpine bacony cheesy lardy kinda stuff

    Contemplating popping over to Calabria next week. Will report.
    The mountain food can be hearty, yes, but generally delicious. A lot of speck, to be sure

    But Bolzano has brilliant food. And they have this fabulous street market in the middle. Mmmmmmmmm

    And the food on the Slovenian border is fascinating. And don't forget Trieste with its boiled testicles! And James Joyce's favourite cafes!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Will let you know.

    Meanwhile, we had a superb dinner at The Mess, the new restaurant at Messums Wiltshire art gallery. Unbelievably good.

    So good in fact, I really shouldn't mention it on t'internet but as it is right in the middle of nowhere I am hoping it will stay under the radar and thus remain both relatively cheap and bookable.

    If you are down that way though, I thoroughly recommend it - £55 per head set dinner of outrageous quality.

    https://messumswiltshire.com/restaurant/
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
    Grauniad clearly pissed at having to shrink its ALL THE POOR ARE GOING TO STARVE TO DEATH headline to make room.
    Food banks running out of food, already taking measures to ration what they can give, is a worthy news story in my humble opinion, it’s the first one I noticed and started reading.

    The juxtaposition with the vanity of Boris “we got all the big calls right” tour just sums up the “in it for myself, and I’m doing alright Jack” mentality of some of our fellow Britons, to put these clowns in power in the first place.
    I have just this minute set up a £50 plus gift aid a month sub to the Trussell Trust, just to cover myself for any LOL @ poor people starving to death posts.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Generally in the UK you get what you pay for. In France and Italy I have had some average meals, but then every so often you get a humdinger for a reasonable price. I got a fantastic meal at a workman's cafe in France. No choice. In Florence, we were in a hotel on the outskirts and asked for a recommendation. We ate there every night for the 3 nights we were there it was so good. In France a back street cafe served me a simple duck and salad, but it was beautiful. All these meals were dirt cheap. Spent lots more on really average meals in both countries.
    In Italy the iron law is: the poorer the region, the better the food

    The best food of all is probably in Calabria. If you go to high end Calabrian places you pay mid-range Roman prices and get sublime food. The Ndrangheta like to be well fed

    Behind Calabria come Sicily, Naples, and so on. Yummy

    In the richer areas it is not so good. The super touristy places can be severely disappointing. Florence, Venice, Capri. Milan can be mediocre, too

    The exception to this law is the far north and Trentino, Friuli etc. Quite wealthy, or very wealthy, and the food is great
    Too far North and you get into all that awful Alpine bacony cheesy lardy kinda stuff

    Contemplating popping over to Calabria next week. Will report.
    I found this article on Calabria very useful


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/secret-italy-discover-the-glorious-coast-of-calabria-x07bxwnfd
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Cheers,

    Been looking at the 'Bistrots' too. Maybe good wine and seafood from a corner place is preferable?
    Yes, I would say so

    The Michelin stuff is insanely expensive, and often not very good

    Paris is still pretty great for classic dishes in mid-priced places, where they are just trying to serve Parisians, not impress inspectors or fleece tourists. Indeed, head away from the super touristy areas near the Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Ile de la Cite, try places like Montparnasse or around Bastille

    Without a doubt, the worst (value) meal I ever had was at Louis XV (which I grant is in Monte Carlo rather than Paris, but still). Three Michelin stars. Insanely expensive. And utterly ordinary.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Generally in the UK you get what you pay for. In France and Italy I have had some average meals, but then every so often you get a humdinger for a reasonable price. I got a fantastic meal at a workman's cafe in France. No choice. In Florence, we were in a hotel on the outskirts and asked for a recommendation. We ate there every night for the 3 nights we were there it was so good. In France a back street cafe served me a simple duck and salad, but it was beautiful. All these meals were dirt cheap. Spent lots more on really average meals in both countries.
    In Italy the iron law is: the poorer the region, the better the food

    The best food of all is probably in Calabria. If you go to high end Calabrian places you pay mid-range Roman prices and get sublime food. The Ndrangheta like to be well fed

    Behind Calabria come Sicily, Naples, and so on. Yummy

    In the richer areas it is not so good. The super touristy places can be severely disappointing. Florence, Venice, Capri. Milan can be mediocre, too

    The exception to this law is the far north and Trentino, Friuli etc. Quite wealthy, or very wealthy, and the food is great
    Too far North and you get into all that awful Alpine bacony cheesy lardy kinda stuff

    Contemplating popping over to Calabria next week. Will report.
    What's wrong with cheese and bacon?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    edited August 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
    Grauniad clearly pissed at having to shrink its ALL THE POOR ARE GOING TO STARVE TO DEATH headline to make room.
    Food banks running out of food, already taking measures to ration what they can give, is a worthy news story in my humble opinion, it’s the first one I noticed and started reading.

    The juxtaposition with the vanity of Boris “we got all the big calls right” tour just sums up the “in it for myself, and I’m doing alright Jack” mentality of some of our fellow Britons, to put these clowns in power in the first place.
    I have just this minute set up a £50 plus gift aid a month sub to the Trussell Trust, just to cover myself for any LOL @ poor people starving to death posts.
    Hehe - that Grauniad article was still big enough to be effective then.

    Seriously, well done!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Will let you know.

    Meanwhile, we had a superb dinner at The Mess, the new restaurant at Messums Wiltshire art gallery. Unbelievably good.

    So good in fact, I really shouldn't mention it on t'internet but as it is right in the middle of nowhere I am hoping it will stay under the radar and thus remain both relatively cheap and bookable.

    If you are down that way though, I thoroughly recommend it - £55 per head set dinner of outrageous quality.

    https://messumswiltshire.com/restaurant/
    That looks DELISH

    British food is, at its best, so good now. Easily the equal of anywhere in Europe. Or indeed the world

    It is more inventive and more varied than France or Italy. Even if the skills are still not quite at the same standard, yet

    Even British wines are coming up to snuff. Damn shame all these brilliant restaurants are gonna go bust this winter

    :(
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    nico679 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good politics from Truss. When you're ahead don't give any opportunities for things to go wrong.

    What could go wrong . She’s miles ahead according to the polls and the membership have made up their minds . She could do a Sharon Stone during the interview whilst at the same time telling Robinson she’s going to abolish the Royal family and it won’t make a blind difference .

    I don’t think it’s good politics to look spineless and afraid of a BBC interview !
    I agree from an ordinary point of view. But in terms of ruthless politics it's the right decision.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    edited August 2022

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Will let you know.

    Meanwhile, we had a superb dinner at The Mess, the new restaurant at Messums Wiltshire art gallery. Unbelievably good.

    So good in fact, I really shouldn't mention it on t'internet but as it is right in the middle of nowhere I am hoping it will stay under the radar and thus remain both relatively cheap and bookable.

    If you are down that way though, I thoroughly recommend it - £55 per head set dinner of outrageous quality.

    https://messumswiltshire.com/restaurant/
    Edit: Bugger - I see they've already put the price up to £65 per head since last week! Still good value imo.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Will let you know.

    Meanwhile, we had a superb dinner at The Mess, the new restaurant at Messums Wiltshire art gallery. Unbelievably good.

    So good in fact, I really shouldn't mention it on t'internet but as it is right in the middle of nowhere I am hoping it will stay under the radar and thus remain both relatively cheap and bookable.

    If you are down that way though, I thoroughly recommend it - £55 per head set dinner of outrageous quality.

    https://messumswiltshire.com/restaurant/
    That looks DELISH

    British food is, at its best, so good now. Easily the equal of anywhere in Europe. Or indeed the world

    It is more inventive and more varied than France or Italy. Even if the skills are still not quite at the same standard, yet

    Even British wines are coming up to snuff. Damn shame all these brilliant restaurants are gonna go bust this winter

    :(
    English wine, please. British 'wine' is something else altogether.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Generally in the UK you get what you pay for. In France and Italy I have had some average meals, but then every so often you get a humdinger for a reasonable price. I got a fantastic meal at a workman's cafe in France. No choice. In Florence, we were in a hotel on the outskirts and asked for a recommendation. We ate there every night for the 3 nights we were there it was so good. In France a back street cafe served me a simple duck and salad, but it was beautiful. All these meals were dirt cheap. Spent lots more on really average meals in both countries.
    In Italy the iron law is: the poorer the region, the better the food

    The best food of all is probably in Calabria. If you go to high end Calabrian places you pay mid-range Roman prices and get sublime food. The Ndrangheta like to be well fed

    Behind Calabria come Sicily, Naples, and so on. Yummy

    In the richer areas it is not so good. The super touristy places can be severely disappointing. Florence, Venice, Capri. Milan can be mediocre, too

    The exception to this law is the far north and Trentino, Friuli etc. Quite wealthy, or very wealthy, and the food is great
    Too far North and you get into all that awful Alpine bacony cheesy lardy kinda stuff

    Contemplating popping over to Calabria next week. Will report.
    I found this article on Calabria very useful


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/secret-italy-discover-the-glorious-coast-of-calabria-x07bxwnfd
    Interesting.

    Equally, I am halfway down a bottle of Montepulciano and wondering what Abruzzo is like...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214

    IshmaelZ said:

    ...

    He’s knocked Bori and Dori off the front! 🫢
    Grauniad clearly pissed at having to shrink its ALL THE POOR ARE GOING TO STARVE TO DEATH headline to make room.
    Food banks running out of food, already taking measures to ration what they can give, is a worthy news story in my humble opinion, it’s the first one I noticed and started reading.

    The juxtaposition with the vanity of Boris “we got all the big calls right” tour just sums up the “in it for myself, and I’m doing alright Jack” mentality of some of our fellow Britons, to put these clowns in power in the first place.
    Tories are utterly fecked when the food banks run out.

    We are talking civil unrest.
    Food banks help with emergency food for people in a crisis, and offer advice and guidance to how to get out of crisis. You go to them from referral recognising your time of need. I’m not sure the outcome from much reduced food at food bank is civil unrest, I’m certain the outcome is people in genuine crisis not getting as much help from a reduced service, and likely as donation dry up from some as they feel the pinch others will give more generous than usual to help. Certainly an up and down ride for food banks in the coming period.

    In my own opinion, what’s probably more serious than foodbanks running low on food, will be both homelessness and break up of families escalating in this period. There’s unemployment coming too, I know some on PB will say it’s low at the moment, but many lost jobs and incomes will be devastating to those individuals and to households where they are bread winners.

    To think of so many people who have worked hard so long for their businesses, their pub, chip shop, and so many worked hard to build a home and take care of their children and other loved ones, for it to be upturned into difficulty, and know for certain now this world of pain is coming to decent hard working people is very sad. 😞
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    Andy_JS said:

    nico679 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good politics from Truss. When you're ahead don't give any opportunities for things to go wrong.

    What could go wrong . She’s miles ahead according to the polls and the membership have made up their minds . She could do a Sharon Stone during the interview whilst at the same time telling Robinson she’s going to abolish the Royal family and it won’t make a blind difference .

    I don’t think it’s good politics to look spineless and afraid of a BBC interview !
    I agree from an ordinary point of view. But in terms of ruthless politics it's the right decision.
    I'm afraid I'm with @nico679 on this one. Looks weak, very weak.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,637
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Cheers,

    Been looking at the 'Bistrots' too. Maybe good wine and seafood from a corner place is preferable?
    Yes, I would say so

    The Michelin stuff is insanely expensive, and often not very good

    Paris is still pretty great for classic dishes in mid-priced places, where they are just trying to serve Parisians, not impress inspectors or fleece tourists. Indeed, head away from the super touristy areas near the Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Ile de la Cite, try places like Montparnasse or around Bastille

    Without a doubt, the worst (value) meal I ever had was at Louis XV (which I grant is in Monte Carlo rather than Paris, but still). Three Michelin stars. Insanely expensive. And utterly ordinary.
    Oui

    I've had Michelin starred meals in France which have been actively repulsive (the molecular foamy ones, in general). And the 3 star ones can dock you £500 for a meal. A not very memorable meal. Luckily I am generally not paying, but still


    This infamous restaurant review by Jay Rayner captures the "terrible Michelin 3 star" experience perfectly. He nails it


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/09/le-cinq-paris-restaurant-review-jay-rayner


    This has happened to me too many times for it to be coincidence. I am convinced the Whole Michelin Thing in France is a racket. A mixture of French arrogance, exceptionalism, and resistance to change, with some actual proper corruption
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Gingerbread?!?
    Yeah, I know, but it's an ancien regime brasserie classic, and when you have it you see why. Sweetness works with foie gras - cf Sauternes

    https://www.laclassedecuisine.com/recipes/appetizers/foie-gras-and-gingerbread-canapes/
    New one on me tbf. I was wondering if it was a recipe created by Stable Diffusion.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if the Brittany Ferries on-ship restaurant is still any good as we head to France on Thursday night - it's been about 10 years since we were regulars on the Portsmouth-St Malo crossing.

    Then driving down to the Italian Lakes with a few stops either way in France for the next fortnight. Looking to settle the age-old question of whether French or Italian food is best (well, not 'settle', just do a lot of sampling tbh).
    I would normally say Italian food is significantly better, but my recent trip to Florence and Rome was disappointing. I have honestly had better Italian food in London, easily. Indeed my daughter remarked: "you can get a better tiramisu in Sainsburys". And she's right

    Maybe the food has not declined it's just that Brits are now spoiled with great food, especially in supermarkets - which are so diverse and competitive here. So we are less easily impressed

    We have discussed the stagnation in French food several times. I'll be interested to hear your verdict
    Generally in the UK you get what you pay for. In France and Italy I have had some average meals, but then every so often you get a humdinger for a reasonable price. I got a fantastic meal at a workman's cafe in France. No choice. In Florence, we were in a hotel on the outskirts and asked for a recommendation. We ate there every night for the 3 nights we were there it was so good. In France a back street cafe served me a simple duck and salad, but it was beautiful. All these meals were dirt cheap. Spent lots more on really average meals in both countries.
    In Italy the iron law is: the poorer the region, the better the food

    The best food of all is probably in Calabria. If you go to high end Calabrian places you pay mid-range Roman prices and get sublime food. The Ndrangheta like to be well fed

    Behind Calabria come Sicily, Naples, and so on. Yummy

    In the richer areas it is not so good. The super touristy places can be severely disappointing. Florence, Venice, Capri. Milan can be mediocre, too

    The exception to this law is the far north and Trentino, Friuli etc. Quite wealthy, or very wealthy, and the food is great
    Too far North and you get into all that awful Alpine bacony cheesy lardy kinda stuff

    Contemplating popping over to Calabria next week. Will report.
    What's wrong with cheese and bacon?
    Nothing, if you have burned that much calories fighting off the cold and skiing dem black runz.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    If you want a great meal in Paris, go to L'Ami Jean in the 7th. Or L'Auberge Bressan (sic)

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Quick question:

    Off to Paris for the weekend late September. Anyone got any restaurant/brasserie recommendations. Maxish 130 euros per person.

    I'd love small eatery somewhere quiet, very French, candles etc... Any ideas?

    In my experience, Parisian food is really hit and miss, and all the places that are like you describe: quiet, candles, French - are either horribly twee and touristy or very expensive, or both, and the food is STILL variable

    Sorry not to be more help

    The most reliable good food in Paris is the big old fashioned brasseries with the red banquettes (which are undergoing a revival). Stick to the classics: oysters, foie gras and gingerbread, turbot and veg. Yummy

    But they are noisy and boozy
    Cheers,

    Been looking at the 'Bistrots' too. Maybe good wine and seafood from a corner place is preferable?
    Yes, I would say so

    The Michelin stuff is insanely expensive, and often not very good

    Paris is still pretty great for classic dishes in mid-priced places, where they are just trying to serve Parisians, not impress inspectors or fleece tourists. Indeed, head away from the super touristy areas near the Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Ile de la Cite, try places like Montparnasse or around Bastille

    Without a doubt, the worst (value) meal I ever had was at Louis XV (which I grant is in Monte Carlo rather than Paris, but still). Three Michelin stars. Insanely expensive. And utterly ordinary.
    Oui

    I've had Michelin starred meals in France which have been actively repulsive (the molecular foamy ones, in general). And the 3 star ones can dock you £500 for a meal. A not very memorable meal. Luckily I am generally not paying, but still


    This infamous restaurant review by Jay Rayner captures the "terrible Michelin 3 star" experience perfectly. He nails it


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/09/le-cinq-paris-restaurant-review-jay-rayner


    This has happened to me too many times for it to be coincidence. I am convinced the Whole Michelin Thing in France is a racket. A mixture of French arrogance, exceptionalism, and resistance to change, with some actual proper corruption
This discussion has been closed.