Well, where did SARS-CoV-1 come from? A zoonotic event.
What about MERS, another new coronavirus? A zoonotic event.
What about some other new diseases affecting people? Monkeypox? Zoonotic event. HIV? Zoonotic event. Ebola? Zoonotic event. Marburg? Zoonotic event. Sleeping sickness? Zoonotic event. Chagas disease? Zoonotic event. Zika? Zoonotic event. Smallpox? Zoonotic event.
Swine flu? Ah… that one seems to be a recombination of a zoonotic infection and an existing human flu strain, so not a straight zoonotic event.
So, even before we look at the actual research on the early infections and the virus’s genome, what’s the most likely explanation for where COVID-19 came from?
God. I dunno. Maybe the lab 200 yards from the wet market where they were researching novel bat coronaviruses and trying to make them more pathogenic for humans by altering the furin cleavage site and then amazingly 200 yards away a novel bat coronavirus emerged in the wet market with bizarre evolutions in the furin cleavage site which make it more pathogenic for humans?
Could there *possibly* be a link? Lord knows! Surely not! Blame the pangolins!
But the director of the Wuhan lab immediately thought she was the culprit. Not "zoonosis" which you apparently claim is the OBVIOUS origin
"Shi, a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years, walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”"
Remember, that was her FIRST thought. "Could they have come from my lab"?
SPOILER: it came from her lab
Dude:
You *know* that the Chinese CDC lab was not where bat viruses were researched. It's in the same fucking city out of hundreds of Chinese cities as the Wuhan Institute of Virology - that's evidence enough without claiming that the CDC offices were the nexus.
Er, you loudly claimed the CDC was on the other side of town. Then I proved you wrong
Anyway who cares? No one can know for sure. We do know that the Wuhan CDC kept bats as part of the overall Wuhan research. And the Wuhan CDC is a leaky BSL2 job (unlike WIV central: BSL4). That is a fact
The Chinese have since moved it hastily elsewhere. Also a fact. And the Chinese have steadfastly refused any proper scrutiny of the CDC, all they say is "no true virology was done here". Fact?
Best guess: it came out of that CDC WIV BSL2 lab so spookily close to the wet market (which was a perfect superspreader environment). Maybe a worker got bit or peed on or whatever. Then walked to the market 3 minutes away. Bought a chicken. Et voila
I was wrong about the location of the CDC.
But prove me wrong: post a credible source showing that the CDC lab was doing bat coronavirus research.
Well, where did SARS-CoV-1 come from? A zoonotic event.
What about MERS, another new coronavirus? A zoonotic event.
What about some other new diseases affecting people? Monkeypox? Zoonotic event. HIV? Zoonotic event. Ebola? Zoonotic event. Marburg? Zoonotic event. Sleeping sickness? Zoonotic event. Chagas disease? Zoonotic event. Zika? Zoonotic event. Smallpox? Zoonotic event.
Swine flu? Ah… that one seems to be a recombination of a zoonotic infection and an existing human flu strain, so not a straight zoonotic event.
So, even before we look at the actual research on the early infections and the virus’s genome, what’s the most likely explanation for where COVID-19 came from?
God. I dunno. Maybe the lab 200 yards from the wet market where they were researching novel bat coronaviruses and trying to make them more pathogenic for humans by altering the furin cleavage site and then amazingly 200 yards away a novel bat coronavirus emerged in the wet market with bizarre evolutions in the furin cleavage site which make it more pathogenic for humans?
Could there *possibly* be a link? Lord knows! Surely not! Blame the pangolins!
But the director of the Wuhan lab immediately thought she was the culprit. Not "zoonosis" which you apparently claim is the OBVIOUS origin
"Shi, a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years, walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”"
Remember, that was her FIRST thought. "Could they have come from my lab"?
SPOILER: it came from her lab
Dude:
You *know* that the Chinese CDC lab was not where bat viruses were researched. It's in the same fucking city out of hundreds of Chinese cities as the Wuhan Institute of Virology - that's evidence enough without claiming that the CDC offices were the nexus.
Er, you loudly claimed the CDC was on the other side of town. Then I proved you wrong
Anyway who cares? No one can know for sure. We do know that the Wuhan CDC kept bats as part of the overall Wuhan research. And the Wuhan CDC is a leaky BSL2 job (unlike WIV central: BSL4). That is a fact
The Chinese have since moved it hastily elsewhere. Also a fact. And the Chinese have steadfastly refused any proper scrutiny of the CDC, all they say is "no true virology was done here". Fact?
Best guess: it came out of that CDC WIV BSL2 lab so spookily close to the wet market (which was a perfect superspreader environment). Maybe a worker got bit or peed on or whatever. Then walked to the market 3 minutes away. Bought a chicken. Et voila
I was wrong about the location of the CDC.
But prove me wrong: post a credible source showing that the CDC lab was doing bat coronavirus research.
On topic, I don't understand how you get from losing statewide elections in Texas to becoming a national presidential nominee. I also don't understand how you get from agitating against gun rights to winning statewide elections in Texas.
Well, where did SARS-CoV-1 come from? A zoonotic event.
What about MERS, another new coronavirus? A zoonotic event.
What about some other new diseases affecting people? Monkeypox? Zoonotic event. HIV? Zoonotic event. Ebola? Zoonotic event. Marburg? Zoonotic event. Sleeping sickness? Zoonotic event. Chagas disease? Zoonotic event. Zika? Zoonotic event. Smallpox? Zoonotic event.
Swine flu? Ah… that one seems to be a recombination of a zoonotic infection and an existing human flu strain, so not a straight zoonotic event.
So, even before we look at the actual research on the early infections and the virus’s genome, what’s the most likely explanation for where COVID-19 came from?
God. I dunno. Maybe the lab 200 yards from the wet market where they were researching novel bat coronaviruses and trying to make them more pathogenic for humans by altering the furin cleavage site and then amazingly 200 yards away a novel bat coronavirus emerged in the wet market with bizarre evolutions in the furin cleavage site which make it more pathogenic for humans?
Could there *possibly* be a link? Lord knows! Surely not! Blame the pangolins!
But the director of the Wuhan lab immediately thought she was the culprit. Not "zoonosis" which you apparently claim is the OBVIOUS origin
"Shi, a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years, walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”"
Remember, that was her FIRST thought. "Could they have come from my lab"?
SPOILER: it came from her lab
Dude:
You *know* that the Chinese CDC lab was not where bat viruses were researched. It's in the same fucking city out of hundreds of Chinese cities as the Wuhan Institute of Virology - that's evidence enough without claiming that the CDC offices were the nexus.
Er, you loudly claimed the CDC was on the other side of town. Then I proved you wrong
Anyway who cares? No one can know for sure. We do know that the Wuhan CDC kept bats as part of the overall Wuhan research. And the Wuhan CDC is a leaky BSL2 job (unlike WIV central: BSL4). That is a fact
The Chinese have since moved it hastily elsewhere. Also a fact. And the Chinese have steadfastly refused any proper scrutiny of the CDC, all they say is "no true virology was done here". Fact?
Best guess: it came out of that CDC WIV BSL2 lab so spookily close to the wet market (which was a perfect superspreader environment). Maybe a worker got bit or peed on or whatever. Then walked to the market 3 minutes away. Bought a chicken. Et voila
It is even possible a lab security guard sold an infected lab animal to the market. It is not completely unheard of even in this country for lab rats to be repurposed as pets.
Labours first intervention into the crisis is fucking lame, does nothing to address the overall costs and involves reimbursing energy companies for the inconvenience of legislating. I mean, what prick thought throwing out this in isolation was an idea?!
The pre-payment problem is an important point but as you say, looks like a trivial footnote.
Yes, it is, but this merely ensures they pay the same crippling costs DD payers pay and reimburses Energy companies for the cost of implementing it. I mean its inept politics to release just this, and even more inept to be 'protecting' energy companies ftom the cost
Well, where did SARS-CoV-1 come from? A zoonotic event.
What about MERS, another new coronavirus? A zoonotic event.
What about some other new diseases affecting people? Monkeypox? Zoonotic event. HIV? Zoonotic event. Ebola? Zoonotic event. Marburg? Zoonotic event. Sleeping sickness? Zoonotic event. Chagas disease? Zoonotic event. Zika? Zoonotic event. Smallpox? Zoonotic event.
Swine flu? Ah… that one seems to be a recombination of a zoonotic infection and an existing human flu strain, so not a straight zoonotic event.
So, even before we look at the actual research on the early infections and the virus’s genome, what’s the most likely explanation for where COVID-19 came from?
God. I dunno. Maybe the lab 200 yards from the wet market where they were researching novel bat coronaviruses and trying to make them more pathogenic for humans by altering the furin cleavage site and then amazingly 200 yards away a novel bat coronavirus emerged in the wet market with bizarre evolutions in the furin cleavage site which make it more pathogenic for humans?
Could there *possibly* be a link? Lord knows! Surely not! Blame the pangolins!
But the director of the Wuhan lab immediately thought she was the culprit. Not "zoonosis" which you apparently claim is the OBVIOUS origin
"Shi, a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years, walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”"
Remember, that was her FIRST thought. "Could they have come from my lab"?
SPOILER: it came from her lab
Dude:
You *know* that the Chinese CDC lab was not where bat viruses were researched. It's in the same fucking city out of hundreds of Chinese cities as the Wuhan Institute of Virology - that's evidence enough without claiming that the CDC offices were the nexus.
Er, you loudly claimed the CDC was on the other side of town. Then I proved you wrong
Anyway who cares? No one can know for sure. We do know that the Wuhan CDC kept bats as part of the overall Wuhan research. And the Wuhan CDC is a leaky BSL2 job (unlike WIV central: BSL4). That is a fact
The Chinese have since moved it hastily elsewhere. Also a fact. And the Chinese have steadfastly refused any proper scrutiny of the CDC, all they say is "no true virology was done here". Fact?
Best guess: it came out of that CDC WIV BSL2 lab so spookily close to the wet market (which was a perfect superspreader environment). Maybe a worker got bit or peed on or whatever. Then walked to the market 3 minutes away. Bought a chicken. Et voila
It is even possible a lab security guard sold an infected lab animal to the market. It is not completely unheard of even in this country for lab rats to be repurposed as pets.
That was one of the early theories. A lab worker wanted some spare cash, took a few bats to the market to sell. It happens, and of course the Chinese have eclectic gastronomic tastes
It falls down in this instance, I think, because there is no history of locals in Wuhan eating bats. Or indeed in most of China. It is barely known. Perhaps Guangdong?
If the workers at the Wuhan CDC talked of "potential infection from bats" then there are multiple routes to the market 2 minutes away, and from there - tragically - to the world
Boris Johnson calls in lawyers over looming Partygate punishment
Boris Johnson is taking legal advice over a privileges committee investigation as those close to him accept it is a “foregone conclusion” that he will be found in contempt of parliament.
A Trump supporting nutjob shot dead after attacking an FBI office . The waste of space is another useful idiot who will be pushing up daisies after being goaded into attacking the FBI by the fat orange blob and the GOP.
Good riddance , one less Trump supporting moron that can’t now procreate !
Well, where did SARS-CoV-1 come from? A zoonotic event.
What about MERS, another new coronavirus? A zoonotic event.
What about some other new diseases affecting people? Monkeypox? Zoonotic event. HIV? Zoonotic event. Ebola? Zoonotic event. Marburg? Zoonotic event. Sleeping sickness? Zoonotic event. Chagas disease? Zoonotic event. Zika? Zoonotic event. Smallpox? Zoonotic event.
Swine flu? Ah… that one seems to be a recombination of a zoonotic infection and an existing human flu strain, so not a straight zoonotic event.
So, even before we look at the actual research on the early infections and the virus’s genome, what’s the most likely explanation for where COVID-19 came from?
God. I dunno. Maybe the lab 200 yards from the wet market where they were researching novel bat coronaviruses and trying to make them more pathogenic for humans by altering the furin cleavage site and then amazingly 200 yards away a novel bat coronavirus emerged in the wet market with bizarre evolutions in the furin cleavage site which make it more pathogenic for humans?
Could there *possibly* be a link? Lord knows! Surely not! Blame the pangolins!
But the director of the Wuhan lab immediately thought she was the culprit. Not "zoonosis" which you apparently claim is the OBVIOUS origin
"Shi, a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years, walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”"
Remember, that was her FIRST thought. "Could they have come from my lab"?
SPOILER: it came from her lab
Dude:
You *know* that the Chinese CDC lab was not where bat viruses were researched. It's in the same fucking city out of hundreds of Chinese cities as the Wuhan Institute of Virology - that's evidence enough without claiming that the CDC offices were the nexus.
Er, you loudly claimed the CDC was on the other side of town. Then I proved you wrong
Anyway who cares? No one can know for sure. We do know that the Wuhan CDC kept bats as part of the overall Wuhan research. And the Wuhan CDC is a leaky BSL2 job (unlike WIV central: BSL4). That is a fact
The Chinese have since moved it hastily elsewhere. Also a fact. And the Chinese have steadfastly refused any proper scrutiny of the CDC, all they say is "no true virology was done here". Fact?
Best guess: it came out of that CDC WIV BSL2 lab so spookily close to the wet market (which was a perfect superspreader environment). Maybe a worker got bit or peed on or whatever. Then walked to the market 3 minutes away. Bought a chicken. Et voila
I was wrong about the location of the CDC.
But prove me wrong: post a credible source showing that the CDC lab was doing bat coronavirus research.
lol
There is massively well publicised bat research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. There will be hundreds - maybe thousands - of workers there.
All we *really* know about the CDC in Wuhan is that there's a building that contains the CDC in Wuhan. And we know some people there have in the past collected stuff from bats.
It's *possible*, of course, that the CDC that Google identifies in the office complex around the corner from the wet market was also doing bat research, and the virus escaped from there. But it seems much, much, much (like 100x) more likely that it escaped from the the place that actually collects and studies thousands of the buggers.
A Trump supporting nutjob shot dead after attacking an FBI office . The waste of space is another useful idiot who will be pushing up daisies after being goaded into attacking the FBI by the fat orange blob and the GOP.
Good riddance , one less Trump supporting moron that can’t now procreate !
What happened to lefty compassion?
Compassion for those who deserve it ! If people attack the FBI after being goaded to by Trump and his arse lickers and subsequently get shot why should I pretend to give a damn . No I don’t care and if Trumps hateful cult want to go round getting themselves shot that’s their problem .
Boris Johnson calls in lawyers over looming Partygate punishment
Boris Johnson is taking legal advice over a privileges committee investigation as those close to him accept it is a “foregone conclusion” that he will be found in contempt of parliament.
Hasnt O'Rourke come up on here before as the next big thing? He better get around to it because I'm sure I've heard this talk before.
Every chance the Democrat field will be open, so wouldnt surprise to see this sanctimonious bollocks in there. But win? Not so sure.
Meanwhile, given the authorities wanted CCTV footage from Mar a Lago, they really did have concerns about who was going in and out of there. the WaPo is reporting some of the files they want to get out Trump's house include stuff about nuclear matters..not civil nuclear matters.
In all honesy, if any of this is true, and the DOJ appear willing to call the bluff here, what did he want to keep them for? Notably, now that the DOJ has raised a motion to unseal details of the warrant , the GOP has gone a bit quiet in demanding the release of details, possibly because Trump and his team are unsure they want this public. You get the feeling they are now aware that there is some shit there.
Either the DOJ took the boxes and have exactly what they thought they had to get (rumours have itTrumps own lawyers told the DOJ about the documents and then refused to hand them over)
I said the other night that people on the inside (or recently on the inside) are chirping. It seems this idea has caught on amongst Trumpites who are now speculating on who the traitor(s) is/are.
I think a Beto Dem nomination is highly contingent on whether he wins the Texas governorship.
If he is able to somehow score an upset win then he'll be the new hero of the Democratic Party. But if he fails, then he will still the carry the baggage of only being "Former Congressman O'Rourke" and I think that's just not good enough to win the nomination. It seems to me like American primary voters want a candidate to have some sort of record of "success" to clear the bar for being a potential President.
Can he win in Texas is the big question ? Abbot is one of the more extreme Republican governors (certainly regarding Abortion rights & gun rights) but Texas is just a very conservative state.
If Beto had been more politically smart & ruthless then he would have moved to some other more friendly Democrat State like Colorado & tried his luck there.
According to the NYT some of the documents seized by the FBI were marked Top Secret .Whats not altogether clear is whether Trump took documents that were originally classified but are now no longer as he was able to declassify them before he left office . Either way the move by Garland has put Trump on the spot. Those Trump cult members in the GOP who jumped on the bandwagon to support him are now wondering whether they should have waited a bit longer before professing undying love for him!
A Trump supporting nutjob shot dead after attacking an FBI office . The waste of space is another useful idiot who will be pushing up daisies after being goaded into attacking the FBI by the fat orange blob and the GOP.
Good riddance , one less Trump supporting moron that can’t now procreate !
What happened to lefty compassion?
Compassion for those who deserve it ! If people attack the FBI after being goaded to by Trump and his arse lickers and subsequently get shot why should I pretend to give a damn . No I don’t care and if Trumps hateful cult want to go round getting themselves shot that’s their problem .
Compassion is meaningless if you only give it to those you like anyway.
Dehumanising your political opponents and wishing them dead is something that enough Trumpists do, don't sink to their level, you can be better than that.
One can argue that the Met Office is rendered better by needing to compete.
Indeed that’s based on some pretty basic economic thinking.
And in what way is the Met Office now better as a result of competition rather than as a result of comparing its forecasts to outcomes (science) or bigger computers (technology)? The public arguably has a worse service (via the BBC).
If the public is getting a poorer service, then the BBC has made a poor procurement decision, but that’s a separate point.
With regard to how the Met Office is now better, I don’t know. Maybe they are more accessible, or innovative, or better at finding commercial applications for their research.
It may be poorer, but it's also cheaper. Which is the choice tends to happen when you cut an organisation's budget.
Given that the taxpayer foots the bill for both anyway, it's not cheaper.
Course it is. The Met Office didn't receive a single penny extra from HMG to compensate for losing the BBC contract.
On the assumption there has been a lab leak, we certainly need to figure out why and bring the culprits to justice.
Manslaughter is a thing.
My feeling is that we’re not ready yet as a society to consider Covid sufficiently in the past to start the investigation.
On the assumption that a bunch of people on a political betting site with no training in epidemiology, genetics or virology don’t know what the f—- they’re talking about, my feeling is that we’re definitely ready to move on from Trumpian conspiracy theories.
I certainly have no training or expertise in the above. My early assumption was that it was a lab leak, I still think that seems most probable, and I don’t care what Trump thinks.
I’m very happy to be persuaded otherwise but there seems to be reasonable debate over it. I suppose I should read those articles you posted, but I’ve got “pork, sesame and sriracha” sausages on the go.
The use of the phrase "Trumpian conspiracy theories" tells you all you need to know
Indeed. It speaks of ignorance and prejudice maintaining each other. The book "The Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health" was written by RFK Junior, a Democrat and not at all a Trumpian.
Similarly, believing the Crimean referendum to have been genuine doesn't make a person a follower or tool of Vladimir Putin.
Comments
But prove me wrong: post a credible source showing that the CDC lab was doing bat coronavirus research.
It falls down in this instance, I think, because there is no history of locals in Wuhan eating bats. Or indeed in most of China. It is barely known. Perhaps Guangdong?
If the workers at the Wuhan CDC talked of "potential infection from bats" then there are multiple routes to the market 2 minutes away, and from there - tragically - to the world
Boris Johnson is taking legal advice over a privileges committee investigation as those close to him accept it is a “foregone conclusion” that he will be found in contempt of parliament.
The prime minister is fighting to save his seat by arguing for a lenient punishment that would avoid a recall petition. A petition could result in his leaving the Commons only weeks after being pushed out of Downing Street.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-calls-in-lawyers-over-looming-partygate-punishment-jrrm0hlpf (£££)
All we *really* know about the CDC in Wuhan is that there's a building that contains the CDC in Wuhan. And we know some people there have in the past collected stuff from bats.
It's *possible*, of course, that the CDC that Google identifies in the office complex around the corner from the wet market was also doing bat research, and the virus escaped from there. But it seems much, much, much (like 100x) more likely that it escaped from the the place that actually collects and studies thousands of the buggers.
Every chance the Democrat field will be open, so wouldnt surprise to see this sanctimonious bollocks in there. But win? Not so sure.
Meanwhile, given the authorities wanted CCTV footage from Mar a Lago, they really did have concerns about who was going in and out of there. the WaPo is reporting some of the files they want to get out Trump's house include stuff about nuclear matters..not civil nuclear matters.
In all honesy, if any of this is true, and the DOJ appear willing to call the bluff here, what did he want to keep them for? Notably, now that the DOJ has raised a motion to unseal details of the warrant , the GOP has gone a bit quiet in demanding the release of details, possibly because Trump and his team are unsure they want this public. You get the feeling they are now aware that there is some shit there.
Either the DOJ took the boxes and have exactly what they thought they had to get (rumours have itTrumps own lawyers told the DOJ about the documents and then refused to hand them over)
I said the other night that people on the inside (or recently on the inside) are chirping. It seems this idea has caught on amongst Trumpites who are now speculating on who the traitor(s) is/are.
If he is able to somehow score an upset win then he'll be the new hero of the Democratic Party. But if he fails, then he will still the carry the baggage of only being "Former Congressman O'Rourke" and I think that's just not good enough to win the nomination. It seems to me like American primary voters want a candidate to have some sort of record of "success" to clear the bar for being a potential President.
Can he win in Texas is the big question ? Abbot is one of the more extreme Republican governors (certainly regarding Abortion rights & gun rights) but Texas is just a very conservative state.
If Beto had been more politically smart & ruthless then he would have moved to some other more friendly Democrat State like Colorado & tried his luck there.
Dehumanising your political opponents and wishing them dead is something that enough Trumpists do, don't sink to their level, you can be better than that.
Betfair next prime minister
1.11 Liz Truss 90%
9.6 Rishi Sunak 10%
Next Conservative leader
1.11 Liz Truss 90%
9.4 Rishi Sunak 11%
Similarly, believing the Crimean referendum to have been genuine doesn't make a person a follower or tool of Vladimir Putin.