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Boris Johnson, a quitter not a fighter? – politicalbetting.com

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  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,606
    Leon said:

    What is fascinating about this music-getting-worse debate is not the question - I’m simply right, it’s a fact - it’s how people fiercely object to the notion. Because you have to be a fucking moron not to realise it is getting worse - uglier, brasher, more simplistic and formulaic

    So why do so many PB-ears resist this? Why are they happy to look like a fucking moron?

    It’s because they are even more scared of looking like some grumpy old git who hates modern music. Given that so many of us are of advanced years, I imagine this notion plagues quite a few people on the site

    And so you get the insane spectacle of intelligent people trying to claim that drill music is just as good as Aretha Franklin

    Whilst I agree with you, the problem is that old farts have been saying this for the last 70 years, maybe more.

    How are you right, when the people who complained about Punk, Beatles,Elvis etc were wrong?

    Since musical taste is subjective, it’s a hard argument to make convincingly.

    Personally, I blame the internet. The fact all music is available on demand crushes space for innovation. You don’t need to write a new tune, or create something new from another half remembered tune, when the whole back catalogue is there right now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,325
    edited August 2022

    Well at least the weather, round here anyway, looks good!
    That we should perhaps be looking forward to a time when Patel was Home Secretary as a relatively liberal time is amazing gut-wrenchingly terrifying!

    FTFY.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    Oh man, there's a ton of excellent new music out there, you just gotta find it. Most pop music is gash, always has been. Most people want simple music. Pop music has always been music getting simpler. Simpler chords, simpler structures. Rock evolved from 12 bar blues, which is about as simple as you can get. Tomorrow Never Knows, one of the most musically adventurous things the Beatles ever did, is one chord - C - like a lot of Indian music is.

    The best pop music is made by skint kids with no musical training on the cheapest equipment. In the Big Band era that was kids with guitars, and that lasted until something cheaper and easier to learn than guitars came along - computers. Now it's kids with a counterfeit copy of Ableton or Cubase, or whatever, on a laptop. No it's not my cup of tea, but I'm not the audience. The kids love it.

    But there's loads of good, often complex, new music out there. Here are some recent-ish new releases, all come highly recommended:

    Skin by Joy Crookes - smoky voiced young Londoner doing soul//funk/blues type stuff

    Dancing Dimensions by Ural Thomas and the Pain - old skool soul guy finally getting some recognition

    My Finest Work Yet by Andrew Bird - classically trained American indie type railing against Trump, but beautifully

    Yn Rio by Carwyn Ellis - lush Tropicalia with Welsh lyrics, an unlikely combination but makes a great summer album

    The Overload by Yard Act - nominated for the Mercury this year, excellent post-punk indie from a Leeds-based band

    INTROSPECTIO by Mario Batkovic - what this guy does with an accordion will blow your mind

    Having pretty much the entirety of recorded music at your fingertips can be quite overwhelming, but there are gems out there.

    And if you're still thirsty for new - to you - music, you could always go back to old stuff that you never heard when it came out. I just discovered One Year by Colin Blunstone, who was the singer with the Zombies. Great solo album, came out in '71, could've been recorded last week it sounds so fresh.
  • ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    ping said:

    Brandon Lewis flailing around on times radio, trying to defend Liz Truss.

    He was a car crash on the Today programme as well. It does look like a Liz PM is going to be a disaster. They really need to pick Rishi.
    Truss set to sack Gove, Kwarteng certain to be Chancellor and Braverman Home Secretary. Sunak unlikely to he offered a Cabinet post.

    Tugendhat might have been offered Foreign Secretary if he had backed Truss before the final MPs rounds, less likely now

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11088255/amp/GLEN-OWEN-Liz-Truss-banish-plotter-Michael-Gove-political-Siberia.html

    All in all looks like an even more right-wing and ERG heavy Cabinet than Boris' was if Truss wins
    Sacking Gove would be a very acceptable move, and I can imagine Kwarteng would actually be quite a good Chancellor.

    But Braverman at the Home Office? While that would at least remove an Attorney General who has utter contempt for the law, the mere thought of what she might do while controlling the state security apparatus given her highly authoritarian tendencies is enough to bring anyone out in a cold sweat.
    Be very careful what you wish for with the sacking of Gove. Obviously he was a terrible EdSec, and bringing Cummings into public life was a huge crime, but now he's the voice of relative sanity. And he's only going because he was meeen to Poor Borwis.

    Put it this way:
    Good news: The Hundred is being scrapped.
    Bad news: It's being replaced by a new four-team competition called The Fifty.
    eek said:


    Which opens up a different question of which group of Tory seats / voters is she targeting. Down South they want low spending but fairly socially liberal (which is why the seats tend Lib Dem) up North they are going to like the right wing social viewpoint but still want levelling up...

    By going for low tax but right wing policies she's very likely to be targeting absolutely no one...

    It's Professor Goodwin's National Populism. Appeals to hard-faced self-made men who did well out of the crisis. Low tax (so they can keep their money) and lots of police (to stop people, especially foreigners, taking their money). It has a certain appeal.

    Whether it works in 2023/4/5 depends on what really happened in 2019. Did Boris find the electoral magic that the country has secretly wanted all along but couldn't get in one package before? Or was he up against the worst ever opponent in modern history?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,714
    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    While my predictions, as the Stodge Saturday Patent has demonstrated, aren't worth any attention, I'll offer a thought based on recent experience.

    In 50-75 years time, London will empty at the beginning of June as those who can seek solace from the 45c temperatures and humidity associated with the late 21st century British summer between the spring and autumn monsoon seasons.

    The newly-refurbished London Euston station will host the regular 30-minute Maglev summer service to the Lake District having passengers disembarking at Oxenholme in little more than a hour. From there, families will decamp to their summer chalets near the lakes (or as near as is affordable). The ability to work independently from location, first established during the 2020 pandemic, will allow tens of thousands of Londoners to continue working far from the overheating capital.

    For those without the means to escape the heat, the annual ordeal that is summer in London is the very definition of purgatory. On the hottest days, with temperatures nearing 50c, many head to vast "cool centres" where they can enjoy air conditioned relief before heading home in the later evening.

    While the Lakes are one popular "retreat from the heat", the Pennines and Cheviots have also seen summer housing and the major development of the north Scottish coast around Torrisdale and the islands of Harris and Lewis have seen an explosion of summer homes for those from southern and eastern Britain desperate to seek cooler summer weather.

    I think you understate the case. The way we're going it will be a runaway climate change. Although some, especially reputable researchers, know what we need to do to counter this, most of us are too gormless to act accordingly.
    For instance, getting an electric car does not justify an otherwise wanton life style.
    That's my fear. That we are now in an accelerating loop of increasing warmth and volatility, which will feed off itself like a chain reaction. And perhaps it is already too late to stop this

    Our presence in this universe appears to be the result of a long series of lucky circumstances.

    These include:
    The fortuitous value of the fine structure constant, which, if it were a little difference would not allow stellar fusion to produce carbon.
    The existence of a rocky planet at just the right distance from a stable and long-lived star.
    The presence of just enough water on said planet to make a complex environment of coasts and shallows that would drive evolution along.
    The presence of an unusually large moon orbiting said planet to slosh all that water about and further drive evolution.
    A complex geology that, combined with the effects of life, has managed to remove CO2 from the Earth's atmosphere at a rate that has just about compensated for the gradual increase in the luminosity of the sun, this keeping the temperature of the Earth in a range compatible with life over the aeons.

    And we are just about to screw it all up.
    Not at all. Whilst you are right about the serendipity element of our existence, you vastly overestimate the significance of our current civilisation and the nature of the changes we are facing. Presenting these current very minor adjustments in our environment with the vast changes that have occurred over the last few million years (one of which probably reduced the human population to less than 10,000 individuals) really shows a fundamental disconnect with the reality of our existence on planet earth.

    The changes of a few degrees - whilst undoubtedly bad for our current comfortable civilisation - are bugger all in both scale and rate of change compared to the natural changes that have occurred even in fairly recent times.

    This is not to say we shouldn't try to mitigate such changes, nor that they won't be very bad for our current lifestyles but your hyperbolic comment shows a stunning lack of historical and prehistorical perspective.
    Not really, as your parenthesis "(one of which probably reduced the human population to less than 10,000 individuals)" accidentally reveals. What is the point of saying This is nothing, we've had snowball earth and ice free earth and oxygen levels of 31%, this is a mere pin prick, when any one of those three sets of conditions would leave mankind wholly or mainly, stone dead? What has the long view got to do with us, when we have only been in the picture for a couple of minutes relatively speaking?

    It's like warning a population of tadpoles in an April puddle that if it doesn't rain in the next week their puddle will dry out and they will all die: not much consolation for them to know that rainfall usually averages out in the course of a year and their puddle was virtually a pond back in January.
    Nah. The point is that the changes we are seeing now are pinpricks compared to what nature can and has done in the past. We will and as we always have and this idea that this is the end of humanity or even civilisation which is expressed in FE's posting really is baseless. Indeed civilisations of the past have thrived under exactly the conditions which are being predicted now. It is uncomfortable for individuals and is probably something to be avoided if we can since it will make life miserable for a lot of people. But it is simply rubbish to consider anything we re predicting at the moment as the end of humanity.

    Of course if we decided to nuke each other that is another matter. But I grew up in the 70s and 80s when threat was a permanent imminent threat so even that I find a bit of a yawn.

    The world is a wonderful place and will continue to be so pretty much regardless of what we do.
    The world is a wonderful place here and now for well heeled UK property owning PBers with money in the bank and drink in the fridge, sure. Our current predicament is such that either hundreds of millions of people who are mainly poor and fucked up anyway are going to be wiped out, or all of us are. I can't pretend to be terribly fussed at either possibility, but that's because I am a selfish twat. How about you?
    The poor in the rest of the world are always being fucked up by those of us in the first world. But in fact their lot has being getting better rather than worse over the last century and continues to do so. So yes I continue to say the world is a wonderful place - and a lot better place to live in than it has been for almost all of human history for the vast majority of its population whether rich or poor.
    But there's more of them. Lots more of them. So in absolute terms there's more human misery now, than in all previous history combined. Not claiming I lose sleep over this, but celebrations seem out of order.
    And yet by all the measures - income, life expectancy, HALE, access to education and technology - the whole world is getting better.

    Global average life expectancy increased by more than 6 years between 2000 and 2019 (WHO).

    The same goes for Healthy Life expectancy (WHO). Almost all of this was as a result of increase in Third World Life expectancy.

    Infant mortality has dropped from 9% in 1990 to 2.6% today. (WHO)

    By 2015 the number of people living in absolute poverty globally had dropped less than half of its 1990 levels - from 1.9 billion to 736 million (World Bank). And that in spite of there being far more people in the world than there were in 1990.

    In the same period illiteracy dropped from 24% of the world's population to less than 14%. (UNESCO)

    Irrespective of how many people there are in the world today, they are better off overall than they were only 30 years ago and vastly better off than they were a century ago.

    This is not a call to do nothing more. But it is a fight back against the idea that the world is becoming a worse place to live in whether rich or poor. It is not.
    100x this.

    Despite all that we see going on, the world has never been a better place in which to live. There is less poverty, fewer wars, higher life expectancy, more democracy, more education, less disease…
    It was probably better in the 1990s, lower inflation, Yeltsin not Putin, Zemin not Xi, pre 9/11, more nations were democratic and pre Covid.

    Though in world history terms today is still a good time to be alive
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    While my predictions, as the Stodge Saturday Patent has demonstrated, aren't worth any attention, I'll offer a thought based on recent experience.

    In 50-75 years time, London will empty at the beginning of June as those who can seek solace from the 45c temperatures and humidity associated with the late 21st century British summer between the spring and autumn monsoon seasons.

    The newly-refurbished London Euston station will host the regular 30-minute Maglev summer service to the Lake District having passengers disembarking at Oxenholme in little more than a hour. From there, families will decamp to their summer chalets near the lakes (or as near as is affordable). The ability to work independently from location, first established during the 2020 pandemic, will allow tens of thousands of Londoners to continue working far from the overheating capital.

    For those without the means to escape the heat, the annual ordeal that is summer in London is the very definition of purgatory. On the hottest days, with temperatures nearing 50c, many head to vast "cool centres" where they can enjoy air conditioned relief before heading home in the later evening.

    While the Lakes are one popular "retreat from the heat", the Pennines and Cheviots have also seen summer housing and the major development of the north Scottish coast around Torrisdale and the islands of Harris and Lewis have seen an explosion of summer homes for those from southern and eastern Britain desperate to seek cooler summer weather.

    I think you understate the case. The way we're going it will be a runaway climate change. Although some, especially reputable researchers, know what we need to do to counter this, most of us are too gormless to act accordingly.
    For instance, getting an electric car does not justify an otherwise wanton life style.
    That's my fear. That we are now in an accelerating loop of increasing warmth and volatility, which will feed off itself like a chain reaction. And perhaps it is already too late to stop this

    Our presence in this universe appears to be the result of a long series of lucky circumstances.

    These include:
    The fortuitous value of the fine structure constant, which, if it were a little difference would not allow stellar fusion to produce carbon.
    The existence of a rocky planet at just the right distance from a stable and long-lived star.
    The presence of just enough water on said planet to make a complex environment of coasts and shallows that would drive evolution along.
    The presence of an unusually large moon orbiting said planet to slosh all that water about and further drive evolution.
    A complex geology that, combined with the effects of life, has managed to remove CO2 from the Earth's atmosphere at a rate that has just about compensated for the gradual increase in the luminosity of the sun, this keeping the temperature of the Earth in a range compatible with life over the aeons.

    And we are just about to screw it all up.
    Not at all. Whilst you are right about the serendipity element of our existence, you vastly overestimate the significance of our current civilisation and the nature of the changes we are facing. Presenting these current very minor adjustments in our environment with the vast changes that have occurred over the last few million years (one of which probably reduced the human population to less than 10,000 individuals) really shows a fundamental disconnect with the reality of our existence on planet earth.

    The changes of a few degrees - whilst undoubtedly bad for our current comfortable civilisation - are bugger all in both scale and rate of change compared to the natural changes that have occurred even in fairly recent times.

    This is not to say we shouldn't try to mitigate such changes, nor that they won't be very bad for our current lifestyles but your hyperbolic comment shows a stunning lack of historical and prehistorical perspective.
    Not really, as your parenthesis "(one of which probably reduced the human population to less than 10,000 individuals)" accidentally reveals. What is the point of saying This is nothing, we've had snowball earth and ice free earth and oxygen levels of 31%, this is a mere pin prick, when any one of those three sets of conditions would leave mankind wholly or mainly, stone dead? What has the long view got to do with us, when we have only been in the picture for a couple of minutes relatively speaking?

    It's like warning a population of tadpoles in an April puddle that if it doesn't rain in the next week their puddle will dry out and they will all die: not much consolation for them to know that rainfall usually averages out in the course of a year and their puddle was virtually a pond back in January.
    Nah. The point is that the changes we are seeing now are pinpricks compared to what nature can and has done in the past. We will and as we always have and this idea that this is the end of humanity or even civilisation which is expressed in FE's posting really is baseless. Indeed civilisations of the past have thrived under exactly the conditions which are being predicted now. It is uncomfortable for individuals and is probably something to be avoided if we can since it will make life miserable for a lot of people. But it is simply rubbish to consider anything we re predicting at the moment as the end of humanity.

    Of course if we decided to nuke each other that is another matter. But I grew up in the 70s and 80s when threat was a permanent imminent threat so even that I find a bit of a yawn.

    The world is a wonderful place and will continue to be so pretty much regardless of what we do.
    The world is a wonderful place here and now for well heeled UK property owning PBers with money in the bank and drink in the fridge, sure. Our current predicament is such that either hundreds of millions of people who are mainly poor and fucked up anyway are going to be wiped out, or all of us are. I can't pretend to be terribly fussed at either possibility, but that's because I am a selfish twat. How about you?
    The poor in the rest of the world are always being fucked up by those of us in the first world. But in fact their lot has being getting better rather than worse over the last century and continues to do so. So yes I continue to say the world is a wonderful place - and a lot better place to live in than it has been for almost all of human history for the vast majority of its population whether rich or poor.
    But there's more of them. Lots more of them. So in absolute terms there's more human misery now, than in all previous history combined. Not claiming I lose sleep over this, but celebrations seem out of order.
    And yet by all the measures - income, life expectancy, HALE, access to education and technology - the whole world is getting better.

    Global average life expectancy increased by more than 6 years between 2000 and 2019 (WHO).

    The same goes for Healthy Life expectancy (WHO). Almost all of this was as a result of increase in Third World Life expectancy.

    Infant mortality has dropped from 9% in 1990 to 2.6% today. (WHO)

    By 2015 the number of people living in absolute poverty globally had dropped less than half of its 1990 levels - from 1.9 billion to 736 million (World Bank). And that in spite of there being far more people in the world than there were in 1990.

    In the same period illiteracy dropped from 24% of the world's population to less than 14%. (UNESCO)

    Irrespective of how many people there are in the world today, they are better off overall than they were only 30 years ago and vastly better off than they were a century ago.

    This is not a call to do nothing more. But it is a fight back against the idea that the world is becoming a worse place to live in whether rich or poor. It is not.
    100x this.

    Despite all that we see going on, the world has never been a better place in which to live. There is less poverty, fewer wars, higher life expectancy, more democracy, more education, less disease…
    I wish that was all true, but it ain’t

    For instance, democracy is in retreat. And has been for many years. Do you get out much?


    “In 2018, Freedom in the World recorded the 13th consecutive year of decline in global freedom. The reversal has spanned a variety of countries in every region, from long-standing democracies like the United States to consolidated authoritarian regimes like China and Russia. The overall losses are still shallow compared with the gains of the late 20th century, but the pattern is consistent and ominous. Democracy is in retreat.”

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/democracy-retreat

    That was in 2019. Do you think it’s got better since then? No, neither do I
    That’s a random think-tank opinion piece trying to push a narrative, rather than a scientific study. The last few years have shown that, in countries like the USA, democracy has very much prevailed over those who said it woundn’t.

    China and Russia never had anything but a fig-leaf of democracy anyway.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,044
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    What is fascinating about this music-getting-worse debate is not the question - I’m simply right, it’s a fact - it’s how people fiercely object to the notion. Because you have to be a fucking moron not to realise it is getting worse - uglier, brasher, more simplistic and formulaic

    So why do so many PB-ears resist this? Why are they happy to look like a fucking moron?

    It’s because they are even more scared of looking like some grumpy old git who hates modern music. Given that so many of us are of advanced years, I imagine this notion plagues quite a few people on the site

    And so you get the insane spectacle of intelligent people trying to claim that drill music is just as good as Aretha Franklin

    Whilst I agree with you, the problem is that old farts have been saying this for the last 70 years, maybe more.

    How are you right, when the people who complained about Punk, Beatles,Elvis etc were wrong?

    Since musical taste is subjective, it’s a hard argument to make convincingly.

    Personally, I blame the internet. The fact all music is available on demand crushes space for innovation. You don’t need to write a new tune, or create something new from another half remembered tune, when the whole back catalogue is there right now.
    Indeed, because old farts have said it for 70 years, no one wants to look like an old fart by saying it now. Except, this time it is true (see those multiple scientific studies). Music is simpler, louder, and more boring. Less surprising. The lyrics less interesting

    And yes there are many factors at play and one of them is the internet. The overwhelming presence of all the great music in the world, on hand, freely, 24/7, surely inhibits people who want to make NEW music
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,325

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    ping said:

    Brandon Lewis flailing around on times radio, trying to defend Liz Truss.

    He was a car crash on the Today programme as well. It does look like a Liz PM is going to be a disaster. They really need to pick Rishi.
    Truss set to sack Gove, Kwarteng certain to be Chancellor and Braverman Home Secretary. Sunak unlikely to he offered a Cabinet post.

    Tugendhat might have been offered Foreign Secretary if he had backed Truss before the final MPs rounds, less likely now

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11088255/amp/GLEN-OWEN-Liz-Truss-banish-plotter-Michael-Gove-political-Siberia.html

    All in all looks like an even more right-wing and ERG heavy Cabinet than Boris' was if Truss wins
    Sacking Gove would be a very acceptable move, and I can imagine Kwarteng would actually be quite a good Chancellor.

    But Braverman at the Home Office? While that would at least remove an Attorney General who has utter contempt for the law, the mere thought of what she might do while controlling the state security apparatus given her highly authoritarian tendencies is enough to bring anyone out in a cold sweat.
    Be very careful what you wish for with the sacking of Gove. Obviously he was a terrible EdSec, and bringing Cummings into public life was a huge crime, but now he's the voice of relative sanity. And he's only going because he was meeen to Poor Borwis.

    Put it this way:
    Good news: The Hundred is being scrapped.
    Bad news: It's being replaced by a new four-team competition called The Fifty.
    Fair comment.

    How on earth did he end up as the sane one?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,044
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Toms said:

    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    While my predictions, as the Stodge Saturday Patent has demonstrated, aren't worth any attention, I'll offer a thought based on recent experience.

    In 50-75 years time, London will empty at the beginning of June as those who can seek solace from the 45c temperatures and humidity associated with the late 21st century British summer between the spring and autumn monsoon seasons.

    The newly-refurbished London Euston station will host the regular 30-minute Maglev summer service to the Lake District having passengers disembarking at Oxenholme in little more than a hour. From there, families will decamp to their summer chalets near the lakes (or as near as is affordable). The ability to work independently from location, first established during the 2020 pandemic, will allow tens of thousands of Londoners to continue working far from the overheating capital.

    For those without the means to escape the heat, the annual ordeal that is summer in London is the very definition of purgatory. On the hottest days, with temperatures nearing 50c, many head to vast "cool centres" where they can enjoy air conditioned relief before heading home in the later evening.

    While the Lakes are one popular "retreat from the heat", the Pennines and Cheviots have also seen summer housing and the major development of the north Scottish coast around Torrisdale and the islands of Harris and Lewis have seen an explosion of summer homes for those from southern and eastern Britain desperate to seek cooler summer weather.

    I think you understate the case. The way we're going it will be a runaway climate change. Although some, especially reputable researchers, know what we need to do to counter this, most of us are too gormless to act accordingly.
    For instance, getting an electric car does not justify an otherwise wanton life style.
    That's my fear. That we are now in an accelerating loop of increasing warmth and volatility, which will feed off itself like a chain reaction. And perhaps it is already too late to stop this

    Our presence in this universe appears to be the result of a long series of lucky circumstances.

    These include:
    The fortuitous value of the fine structure constant, which, if it were a little difference would not allow stellar fusion to produce carbon.
    The existence of a rocky planet at just the right distance from a stable and long-lived star.
    The presence of just enough water on said planet to make a complex environment of coasts and shallows that would drive evolution along.
    The presence of an unusually large moon orbiting said planet to slosh all that water about and further drive evolution.
    A complex geology that, combined with the effects of life, has managed to remove CO2 from the Earth's atmosphere at a rate that has just about compensated for the gradual increase in the luminosity of the sun, this keeping the temperature of the Earth in a range compatible with life over the aeons.

    And we are just about to screw it all up.
    Not at all. Whilst you are right about the serendipity element of our existence, you vastly overestimate the significance of our current civilisation and the nature of the changes we are facing. Presenting these current very minor adjustments in our environment with the vast changes that have occurred over the last few million years (one of which probably reduced the human population to less than 10,000 individuals) really shows a fundamental disconnect with the reality of our existence on planet earth.

    The changes of a few degrees - whilst undoubtedly bad for our current comfortable civilisation - are bugger all in both scale and rate of change compared to the natural changes that have occurred even in fairly recent times.

    This is not to say we shouldn't try to mitigate such changes, nor that they won't be very bad for our current lifestyles but your hyperbolic comment shows a stunning lack of historical and prehistorical perspective.
    Not really, as your parenthesis "(one of which probably reduced the human population to less than 10,000 individuals)" accidentally reveals. What is the point of saying This is nothing, we've had snowball earth and ice free earth and oxygen levels of 31%, this is a mere pin prick, when any one of those three sets of conditions would leave mankind wholly or mainly, stone dead? What has the long view got to do with us, when we have only been in the picture for a couple of minutes relatively speaking?

    It's like warning a population of tadpoles in an April puddle that if it doesn't rain in the next week their puddle will dry out and they will all die: not much consolation for them to know that rainfall usually averages out in the course of a year and their puddle was virtually a pond back in January.
    Nah. The point is that the changes we are seeing now are pinpricks compared to what nature can and has done in the past. We will and as we always have and this idea that this is the end of humanity or even civilisation which is expressed in FE's posting really is baseless. Indeed civilisations of the past have thrived under exactly the conditions which are being predicted now. It is uncomfortable for individuals and is probably something to be avoided if we can since it will make life miserable for a lot of people. But it is simply rubbish to consider anything we re predicting at the moment as the end of humanity.

    Of course if we decided to nuke each other that is another matter. But I grew up in the 70s and 80s when threat was a permanent imminent threat so even that I find a bit of a yawn.

    The world is a wonderful place and will continue to be so pretty much regardless of what we do.
    The world is a wonderful place here and now for well heeled UK property owning PBers with money in the bank and drink in the fridge, sure. Our current predicament is such that either hundreds of millions of people who are mainly poor and fucked up anyway are going to be wiped out, or all of us are. I can't pretend to be terribly fussed at either possibility, but that's because I am a selfish twat. How about you?
    The poor in the rest of the world are always being fucked up by those of us in the first world. But in fact their lot has being getting better rather than worse over the last century and continues to do so. So yes I continue to say the world is a wonderful place - and a lot better place to live in than it has been for almost all of human history for the vast majority of its population whether rich or poor.
    But there's more of them. Lots more of them. So in absolute terms there's more human misery now, than in all previous history combined. Not claiming I lose sleep over this, but celebrations seem out of order.
    And yet by all the measures - income, life expectancy, HALE, access to education and technology - the whole world is getting better.

    Global average life expectancy increased by more than 6 years between 2000 and 2019 (WHO).

    The same goes for Healthy Life expectancy (WHO). Almost all of this was as a result of increase in Third World Life expectancy.

    Infant mortality has dropped from 9% in 1990 to 2.6% today. (WHO)

    By 2015 the number of people living in absolute poverty globally had dropped less than half of its 1990 levels - from 1.9 billion to 736 million (World Bank). And that in spite of there being far more people in the world than there were in 1990.

    In the same period illiteracy dropped from 24% of the world's population to less than 14%. (UNESCO)

    Irrespective of how many people there are in the world today, they are better off overall than they were only 30 years ago and vastly better off than they were a century ago.

    This is not a call to do nothing more. But it is a fight back against the idea that the world is becoming a worse place to live in whether rich or poor. It is not.
    100x this.

    Despite all that we see going on, the world has never been a better place in which to live. There is less poverty, fewer wars, higher life expectancy, more democracy, more education, less disease…
    I wish that was all true, but it ain’t

    For instance, democracy is in retreat. And has been for many years. Do you get out much?


    “In 2018, Freedom in the World recorded the 13th consecutive year of decline in global freedom. The reversal has spanned a variety of countries in every region, from long-standing democracies like the United States to consolidated authoritarian regimes like China and Russia. The overall losses are still shallow compared with the gains of the late 20th century, but the pattern is consistent and ominous. Democracy is in retreat.”

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2019/democracy-retreat

    That was in 2019. Do you think it’s got better since then? No, neither do I
    That’s a random think-tank opinion piece trying to push a narrative, rather than a scientific study. The last few years have shown that, in countries like the USA, democracy has very much prevailed over those who said it woundn’t.

    China and Russia never had anything but a fig-leaf of democracy anyway.
    No, it’s a fact. What is wrong with PB today? Denying facts? There are fewer democracies than there were, and the democracies that do exist are more flawed


    if you don’t like that study, here’s the Economist


    “Global democracy has a very bad year
    The pandemic caused an unprecedented rollback of democratic freedoms in 2020”

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/02/02/global-democracy-has-a-very-bad-year

    And on….

    “The 2021 edition of the EIU’s Democracy Index sheds light on continued challenges to democracy worldwide, under pressure from the coronavirus pandemic and increasing support for authoritarian alternatives.

    “The annual index, which provides a measurement of the state of global democracy, reveals an overall score of 5.28, down from 5.37 in 2020. This fall is the biggest since 2010, in the immediate aftermath of the global financial crisis, and sets another dismal record for the worst global score since the index was first produced in 2006.”

    https://www.economistgroup.com/group-news/economist-intelligence/democracy-index-2021-less-than-half-the-world-lives-in-a-democracy

    Democracy is in retreat. I’m sorry if this upsets you, but it is the case
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,773
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    ping said:

    Brandon Lewis flailing around on times radio, trying to defend Liz Truss.

    He was a car crash on the Today programme as well. It does look like a Liz PM is going to be a disaster. They really need to pick Rishi.
    Truss set to sack Gove, Kwarteng certain to be Chancellor and Braverman Home Secretary. Sunak unlikely to he offered a Cabinet post.

    Tugendhat might have been offered Foreign Secretary if he had backed Truss before the final MPs rounds, less likely now

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11088255/amp/GLEN-OWEN-Liz-Truss-banish-plotter-Michael-Gove-political-Siberia.html

    All in all looks like an even more right-wing and ERG heavy Cabinet than Boris' was if Truss wins
    Sacking Gove would be a very acceptable move, and I can imagine Kwarteng would actually be quite a good Chancellor.

    But Braverman at the Home Office? While that would at least remove an Attorney General who has utter contempt for the law, the mere thought of what she might do while controlling the state security apparatus given her highly authoritarian tendencies is enough to bring anyone out in a cold sweat.
    Be very careful what you wish for with the sacking of Gove. Obviously he was a terrible EdSec, and bringing Cummings into public life was a huge crime, but now he's the voice of relative sanity. And he's only going because he was meeen to Poor Borwis.

    Put it this way:
    Good news: The Hundred is being scrapped.
    Bad news: It's being replaced by a new four-team competition called The Fifty.
    Fair comment.

    How on earth did he end up as the sane one?
    It's all relative.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    Just putting this here also - it's on the new thread as well
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,572
    tlg86 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Weird story this morning about record cash withdrawals. YoY increase of 20%.

    A portent of doom? I'm going to dig into the data/economics literature on this if I get time today.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62437819

    "Cash has been in decline for well over a decade, the pandemic accelerated this, but now it's going back up, and that's absolutely because of the cost of living crisis," she said.

    Sigh. People read into things what they want to. I'd have thought it's more a case of things going back to normal after the pandemic.
    I've had a look online and can't find any report or data supporting this.

    There is a month on month increase, but surely that is just people going out to the pub etc? Close to calling bollocks on it.

    The people quoted in the article are quite adamant though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,083
    Leon said:

    What is fascinating about this music-getting-worse debate is not the question - I’m simply right, it’s a fact - it’s how people fiercely object to the notion. Because you have to be a fucking moron not to realise it is getting worse - uglier, brasher, more simplistic and formulaic

    So why do so many PB-ears resist this? Why are they happy to look like a fucking moron?

    It’s because they are even more scared of looking like some grumpy old git who hates modern music. Given that so many of us are of advanced years, I imagine this notion plagues quite a few people on the site

    And so you get the insane spectacle of intelligent people trying to claim that drill music is just as good as Aretha Franklin

    My dad used to bang on like this in the 70s when I was a teenager. How current music wasn't a patch on the stuff he grew up with in the 40s and 50s. It used to really get on my nerves.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,044
    TOPPING said:

    Just putting this here also - it's on the new thread as well

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    It’s faintly tragic that you had to write all that out to prove how youthful you really are, if only to yourself. But well done
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,606
    TOPPING said:

    Just putting this here also - it's on the new thread as well

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Ouch. CdeB

    Interesting list. Do you have it in shareable form?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,606
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just putting this here also - it's on the new thread as well

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    It’s faintly tragic that you had to write all that out to prove how youthful you really are, if only to yourself. But well done
    You a bit harsh in a list that contains ‘wanklemut’
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,848
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    ping said:

    Brandon Lewis flailing around on times radio, trying to defend Liz Truss.

    He was a car crash on the Today programme as well. It does look like a Liz PM is going to be a disaster. They really need to pick Rishi.
    Truss set to sack Gove, Kwarteng certain to be Chancellor and Braverman Home Secretary. Sunak unlikely to he offered a Cabinet post.

    Tugendhat might have been offered Foreign Secretary if he had backed Truss before the final MPs rounds, less likely now

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11088255/amp/GLEN-OWEN-Liz-Truss-banish-plotter-Michael-Gove-political-Siberia.html

    All in all looks like an even more right-wing and ERG heavy Cabinet than Boris' was if Truss wins
    Braverman Home Secretary destroys any credibility she might have had. She might as well just give the job to Dorries and be done with.

    She as good as promised Sunak a role in one of the earlier debates, and Tory party rules don’t (any longer) allow him to withdraw before the final ballot and throw his weight behind her. So if she doesn’t work with him it would be a bad call.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just putting this here also - it's on the new thread as well

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    It’s faintly tragic that you had to write all that out to prove how youthful you really are, if only to yourself. But well done
    Twat. I just Shazam anything I like the sound of. You should get with the technology.

    Edit: and I like modern British drama which brings you face to face with grime.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,606
    Wanklemut is great.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just putting this here also - it's on the new thread as well

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Ouch. CdeB

    Interesting list. Do you have it in shareable form?
    Will see if I can do that and PM you.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,194
    edited August 2022
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    ping said:

    Brandon Lewis flailing around on times radio, trying to defend Liz Truss.

    He was a car crash on the Today programme as well. It does look like a Liz PM is going to be a disaster. They really need to pick Rishi.
    Truss set to sack Gove, Kwarteng certain to be Chancellor and Braverman Home Secretary. Sunak unlikely to he offered a Cabinet post.

    Tugendhat might have been offered Foreign Secretary if he had backed Truss before the final MPs rounds, less likely now

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11088255/amp/GLEN-OWEN-Liz-Truss-banish-plotter-Michael-Gove-political-Siberia.html

    All in all looks like an even more right-wing and ERG heavy Cabinet than Boris' was if Truss wins
    Sacking Gove would be a very acceptable move, and I can imagine Kwarteng would actually be quite a good Chancellor.

    But Braverman at the Home Office? While that would at least remove an Attorney General who has utter contempt for the law, the mere thought of what she might do while controlling the state security apparatus given her highly authoritarian tendencies is enough to bring anyone out in a cold sweat.
    Be very careful what you wish for with the sacking of Gove. Obviously he was a terrible EdSec, and bringing Cummings into public life was a huge crime, but now he's the voice of relative sanity. And he's only going because he was meeen to Poor Borwis.

    Put it this way:
    Good news: The Hundred is being scrapped.
    Bad news: It's being replaced by a new four-team competition called The Fifty.
    Fair comment.

    How on earth did he end up as the sane one?
    Good question.

    I was going to say that a decade in government would knock a sense of reality and humility into anyone, but then you have to explain Liz Truss.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,402
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    ping said:

    Brandon Lewis flailing around on times radio, trying to defend Liz Truss.

    He was a car crash on the Today programme as well. It does look like a Liz PM is going to be a disaster. They really need to pick Rishi.
    Truss set to sack Gove, Kwarteng certain to be Chancellor and Braverman Home Secretary. Sunak unlikely to he offered a Cabinet post.

    Tugendhat might have been offered Foreign Secretary if he had backed Truss before the final MPs rounds, less likely now

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11088255/amp/GLEN-OWEN-Liz-Truss-banish-plotter-Michael-Gove-political-Siberia.html

    All in all looks like an even more right-wing and ERG heavy Cabinet than Boris' was if Truss wins
    Braverman Home Secretary destroys any credibility she might have had. She might as well just give the job to Dorries and be done with.

    She as good as promised Sunak a role in one of the earlier debates, and Tory party rules don’t (any longer) allow him to withdraw before the final ballot and throw his weight behind her. So if she doesn’t work with him it would be a bad call.
    Creating a situation where Gove has time to plot could be described as either risky or brave!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,848
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    ping said:

    Brandon Lewis flailing around on times radio, trying to defend Liz Truss.

    He was a car crash on the Today programme as well. It does look like a Liz PM is going to be a disaster. They really need to pick Rishi.
    Truss set to sack Gove, Kwarteng certain to be Chancellor and Braverman Home Secretary. Sunak unlikely to he offered a Cabinet post.

    Tugendhat might have been offered Foreign Secretary if he had backed Truss before the final MPs rounds, less likely now

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11088255/amp/GLEN-OWEN-Liz-Truss-banish-plotter-Michael-Gove-political-Siberia.html

    All in all looks like an even more right-wing and ERG heavy Cabinet than Boris' was if Truss wins
    Which opens up a different question of which group of Tory seats / voters is she targeting. Down South they want low spending but fairly socially liberal (which is why the seats tend Lib Dem) up North they are going to like the right wing social viewpoint but still want levelling up...

    By going for low tax but right wing policies she's very likely to be targeting absolutely no one...
    If she is reduced to standing in Northern Ireland she will be getting desperate
  • eekeek Posts: 28,293
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    ping said:

    Brandon Lewis flailing around on times radio, trying to defend Liz Truss.

    He was a car crash on the Today programme as well. It does look like a Liz PM is going to be a disaster. They really need to pick Rishi.
    Truss set to sack Gove, Kwarteng certain to be Chancellor and Braverman Home Secretary. Sunak unlikely to he offered a Cabinet post.

    Tugendhat might have been offered Foreign Secretary if he had backed Truss before the final MPs rounds, less likely now

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11088255/amp/GLEN-OWEN-Liz-Truss-banish-plotter-Michael-Gove-political-Siberia.html

    All in all looks like an even more right-wing and ERG heavy Cabinet than Boris' was if Truss wins
    Sacking Gove would be a very acceptable move, and I can imagine Kwarteng would actually be quite a good Chancellor.

    But Braverman at the Home Office? While that would at least remove an Attorney General who has utter contempt for the law, the mere thought of what she might do while controlling the state security apparatus given her highly authoritarian tendencies is enough to bring anyone out in a cold sweat.
    Be very careful what you wish for with the sacking of Gove. Obviously he was a terrible EdSec, and bringing Cummings into public life was a huge crime, but now he's the voice of relative sanity. And he's only going because he was meeen to Poor Borwis.

    Put it this way:
    Good news: The Hundred is being scrapped.
    Bad news: It's being replaced by a new four-team competition called The Fifty.
    Fair comment.

    How on earth did he end up as the sane one?
    Because the other sane senior Tory MPs were binned by Bozo in October 2019...
  • New thread.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak not pulling any punches in op-ed for The Sun.

    He argues Liz Truss tax plans are "a big bung to large businesses and the well-off" but "leave those who most need help out in the cold"

    Sunak accusing Truss of "starry-eyed boosterism"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19445238/liz-truss-plan-brits-bills/

    You see, this yanks my chain.

    My wife and I are paying nearly £2,000 pa. more tax since April due to the NI rise, and now any reversal of this is considered a "hand-out to the well-off".

    Um, no. It's reversing a hand-grab from those on good professional salaries working long hours. It's why I was such an opponent of the levy - it will go up from 1.25% to 3% within a few years of Labour taking office.

    Followed to its natural conclusion, this argument could be used to defend any NI/income tax increase on higher earners to any level, and against reversal.
    Just to give another view, my children who also work hard (but earn I am sure a lot less than you) are now paying less NI because of the other changes which Sunak brought in at the same time. The amount by which they benefit is not huge but it helps, particularly given that they have similar costs eg utilities, have to pay usurious rates on their student loans and are saving to be able to afford - eventually - a mortgage.

    Would Truss do anything for people like my children? I have not heard her say anything. Perhaps I have missed this.



  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Late afternoon all :)

    While my predictions, as the Stodge Saturday Patent has demonstrated, aren't worth any attention, I'll offer a thought based on recent experience.

    In 50-75 years time, London will empty at the beginning of June as those who can seek solace from the 45c temperatures and humidity associated with the late 21st century British summer between the spring and autumn monsoon seasons.

    The newly-refurbished London Euston station will host the regular 30-minute Maglev summer service to the Lake District having passengers disembarking at Oxenholme in little more than a hour. From there, families will decamp to their summer chalets near the lakes (or as near as is affordable). The ability to work independently from location, first established during the 2020 pandemic, will allow tens of thousands of Londoners to continue working far from the overheating capital.

    For those without the means to escape the heat, the annual ordeal that is summer in London is the very definition of purgatory. On the hottest days, with temperatures nearing 50c, many head to vast "cool centres" where they can enjoy air conditioned relief before heading home in the later evening.

    While the Lakes are one popular "retreat from the heat", the Pennines and Cheviots have also seen summer housing and the major development of the north Scottish coast around Torrisdale and the islands of Harris and Lewis have seen an explosion of summer homes for those from southern and eastern Britain desperate to seek cooler summer weather.

    That actually sounds like a reasonable prediction, as I stare out at the parched sere grass of the Regent's Park, which has not seen decent rain since early July
    Wiltshire was looking very parched on Saturday evening:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y94UwQ5au9Y
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,040
    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just putting this here also - it's on the new thread as well

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh go on @Scott_P, educate me.

    Look at it this way.

    How much of the kit you bought in the 90's would still be part of your system today (notwithstanding the voltage issues) ?
    Richer Sounds always did decent kit, and it lasts well. My Marantz amp from there must be 25 years old.

    There is good new music now, despite what grandpa Leon was saying last night while showing his slides. I am a fan of Molchat Doma for example.

    https://youtu.be/s1ATTIQrmIQ
    I’m not just emotionally and artistically correct, I can scientifically prove I’m correct. Music is decreasing in complexity and variety, songs are more formulaic, lyrics are more repetitive and mundane. Music is getting worse

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-pop-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/science-proves-pop-music-has-actually-gotten-worse-8173368/

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.04292.pdf

    https://www.mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same


    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0115255
    You old git.

    On my playlist:

    Mazzy Star
    Quantic
    Tash Sultana
    DJariium
    Husky Loops
    Paul Hartnoll
    Finley Quaye
    Young Fathers
    Dave Thomas Junior
    Light Asylum
    Nitin Sawhney
    Elbow
    Unkle
    Kerli
    Wankelmut
    Leftfield
    X Ambassadors
    Silver Mt Zion
    FKA Twigs
    Covenant
    Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
    The Allergies
    Michel Kiwanuka
    Dennis Lloyd
    Robert Levon Been
    Maribou State
    The Cinematic Orchestra
    Molotov Jukebox

    Something there for everything. You might think you recognise some of it/it's derivative of course you might but then welcome to pop music for the past 70 years.

    And that's to exclude the superstars - eg Kanye, Rihanna, Adele, Lizzo, etc, or, say, Grime.

    You need to get out more, take the Chris de Burgh tape off loop and start shazaming your way to find some new music.
    Ouch. CdeB

    Interesting list. Do you have it in shareable form?
    Will see if I can do that and PM you.
    That should just c/p into Excel.
This discussion has been closed.