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Crisis, what crisis? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,163
edited August 2022 in General
Crisis, what crisis? – politicalbetting.com

77% of Britons say they will not be able to afford expected increases to their energy bills without cutting other spending, if they can afford it at allThis rises to 85% among households earning less than £20,000 a yearhttps://t.co/cMWNNEme5m pic.twitter.com/lDEX8IA76a

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Comments

  • Test.
  • Betfair next prime minister
    1.12 Liz Truss 89%
    9.4 Rishi Sunak 11%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    9.8 Rishi Sunak 10%
  • Rishi needs to talk about the cost of living crisis as well as inflation. He might think they are largely synonymous but he needs to have an eye on the wider electorate. He should remind people what he has already done on energy and say whether, and if so how, he plans to extend such help.

    Liz needs to attach some numbers to her planned policy changes like suspending the green levy, reversing the NI rise and so on.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2022
    Let the poor freeze, so says the tory membership.

    These people are as bad, if not worse, than the far left who couldn’t give a hoot about property rights.

    Pandering to these callous nutters on either fringe is a disaster for the country.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2022
    In better news, some smart guy from Brunel has just come up with a solution to a problem I’ve had for a while;

    https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/articles/-Head-mounted-device-allows-deaf-cyclists-to-'feel'-surrounding-traffic

    I’ve just emailed him, giving him my support and offering a few suggestions. I’m somewhat doubtful it’ll make it into a viable commercial product (pretty niche, fairly small potential market - deaf cyclists who don’t wear helmets) but it would be great if it does. Even better if he can integrate it into a helmet, which looks technically feasible from where I’m standing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    British farmers exporting livestock to the continent are trying to set up facilities for “red tape” checks by vets in France costing millions of pounds – and may even pay for it themselves.

    Breeders in Britain are unable to export their pedigree cattle, sheep and pigs to the EU because no one has built any border control posts where vets can check the animals before they enter the single market.

    No private company in France has been prepared so far to invest the millions of euros needed to build a facility, bringing British exports to the European mainland to a halt since Brexit.

    Now the National Farmers’ Union (NFU) is planning to ask farmers if they will help fund the facility themselves. Meanwhile, some breeders say they have only months left before shutting down their export operations, while others are relocating to the EU.
  • IanB2 said:

    British farmers exporting livestock to the continent are trying to set up facilities for “red tape” checks by vets in France costing millions of pounds – and may even pay for it themselves.

    Breeders in Britain are unable to export their pedigree cattle, sheep and pigs to the EU because no one has built any border control posts where vets can check the animals before they enter the single market.

    No private company in France has been prepared so far to invest the millions of euros needed to build a facility, bringing British exports to the European mainland to a halt since Brexit.

    Now the National Farmers’ Union (NFU) is planning to ask farmers if they will help fund the facility themselves. Meanwhile, some breeders say they have only months left before shutting down their export operations, while others are relocating to the EU.

    This might depend on what the farmers are exporting. Breeding stock is one thing but if the animals are being sent for slaughter, then it might be better, and more humane, to export meat on the hook rather than hoof. That said, that will presumably need a different class of checks.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    “Yorkshire’s Liz Truss”, huh? I thought she was a Buddy.

    - “…makes me doubt the wisdom of laying a Labour majority at the next general election.”

    Lab Maj is currently 7/2, which looks like amazingly poor value to me, and an obvious LAY. I am, of course, open to counter arguments, but it appears to me that there are only two routes to Lab Maj:

    A. Labour landslide in England (45%+), or
    B. strong Labour recovery in Scotland (35%+)

    Anybody familiar with the polling data will know that both A and B look profoundly unlikely. On a good day English Labour are hovering around the 40% mark and Scottish Labour around the 20% mark. Good, but no cigars.

    Of course TSE is correct that an economic catastrophe makes A more likely, but I remain skeptical for the simple reason that so much has already gone catastrophically wrong for Cameron, May and The Oaf and yet they are still polling quite decent numbers in the low to mid 30s. If the electorate had any gumption at all the Tories would already be in the teens, or worse.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    “Yorkshire’s Liz Truss”, huh? I thought she was a Buddy.

    - “…makes me doubt the wisdom of laying a Labour majority at the next general election.”

    Lab Maj is currently 7/2, which looks like amazingly poor value to me, and an obvious LAY. I am, of course, open to counter arguments, but it appears to me that there are only two routes to Lab Maj:

    A. Labour landslide in England (45%+), or
    B. strong Labour recovery in Scotland (35%+)

    Anybody familiar with the polling data will know that both A and B look profoundly unlikely. On a good day English Labour are hovering around the 40% mark and Scottish Labour around the 20% mark. Good, but no cigars.

    Of course TSE is correct that an economic catastrophe makes A more likely, but I remain skeptical for the simple reason that so much has already gone catastrophically wrong for Cameron, May and The Oaf and yet they are still polling quite decent numbers in the low to mid 30s. If the electorate had any gumption at all the Tories would already be in the teens, or worse.

    There is some speculation about inflation and our politics here. The one thing that is clear is that there is, as yet, no surge toward the conventional opposition

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/05/inflation-british-politics-recession-bank-of-england
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292
    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Only one pollster, to my knowledge, publishes England-only VI data, and I can’t be bothered wading through mountains of tables to extract the data (feel free if you have the time), so I’ve only perused the GB/UK data (which is nowadays a surprisingly poor proxy for English voting intention).

    As far as I can see, Labour have only reached 45% on one occasion since the 2019 GE:

    Survation, 6 July 2022:
    Lab 45%
    Con 31%
    LD 11%
    SNP 5%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%
    oth 5%

    The Tories have polled 45%+ on 50 - yes, fifty - occasions. Peaking at 55%. Admittedly further back in time, but indicative of the huge Tory lean in English society.

    It’s all about the blame game now. PM Truss is gonna blame absolutely everyone but her own government. She might just get away with it.
  • Only one pollster, to my knowledge, publishes England-only VI data, and I can’t be bothered wading through mountains of tables to extract the data (feel free if you have the time), so I’ve only perused the GB/UK data (which is nowadays a surprisingly poor proxy for English voting intention).

    As far as I can see, Labour have only reached 45% on one occasion since the 2019 GE:

    Survation, 6 July 2022:
    Lab 45%
    Con 31%
    LD 11%
    SNP 5%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%
    oth 5%

    The Tories have polled 45%+ on 50 - yes, fifty - occasions. Peaking at 55%. Admittedly further back in time, but indicative of the huge Tory lean in English society.

    It’s all about the blame game now. PM Truss is gonna blame absolutely everyone but her own government. She might just get away with it.

    PM Truss is going to blame Boris's government, just as Boris blamed Cameron's and May's. It worked. Liz will blame Boris (and by extension, Rishi) and Putin and Covid.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417

    I have pulled out from Chinese equities 100% now. I have a No Dictatorship investment policy (and holiday/purchase policy) going forward. The Volvo is going next month, and it will definitely not be getting replaced by another Chinese vehicle.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Question - have in year national insurance changes ever been done before? Won’t this create havoc with PAYE systems?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Only one pollster, to my knowledge, publishes England-only VI data, and I can’t be bothered wading through mountains of tables to extract the data (feel free if you have the time), so I’ve only perused the GB/UK data (which is nowadays a surprisingly poor proxy for English voting intention).

    As far as I can see, Labour have only reached 45% on one occasion since the 2019 GE:

    Survation, 6 July 2022:
    Lab 45%
    Con 31%
    LD 11%
    SNP 5%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%
    oth 5%

    The Tories have polled 45%+ on 50 - yes, fifty - occasions. Peaking at 55%. Admittedly further back in time, but indicative of the huge Tory lean in English society.

    It’s all about the blame game now. PM Truss is gonna blame absolutely everyone but her own government. She might just get away with it.

    PM Truss is going to blame Boris's government, just as Boris blamed Cameron's and May's. It worked. Liz will blame Boris (and by extension, Rishi) and Putin and Covid.
    … and the French, and the Germans, and Drakeford, and Sturgeon, and the Irish, and the unions, and everybody “talking the country down”. It is all so very, very predictable. And it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the English fall for it yet again. I’ve witnessed it so many times

  • alex_ said:

    Question - have in year national insurance changes ever been done before? Won’t this create havoc with PAYE systems?

    The national insurance threshold increase was announced in March but delayed till July to allow payroll systems to catch up.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417

    Global Britain will never recognise Fujian and Zhejiang and part of China while Jizzy Lizzy is PM.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IanB2 said:

    “Yorkshire’s Liz Truss”, huh? I thought she was a Buddy.

    - “…makes me doubt the wisdom of laying a Labour majority at the next general election.”

    Lab Maj is currently 7/2, which looks like amazingly poor value to me, and an obvious LAY. I am, of course, open to counter arguments, but it appears to me that there are only two routes to Lab Maj:

    A. Labour landslide in England (45%+), or
    B. strong Labour recovery in Scotland (35%+)

    Anybody familiar with the polling data will know that both A and B look profoundly unlikely. On a good day English Labour are hovering around the 40% mark and Scottish Labour around the 20% mark. Good, but no cigars.

    Of course TSE is correct that an economic catastrophe makes A more likely, but I remain skeptical for the simple reason that so much has already gone catastrophically wrong for Cameron, May and The Oaf and yet they are still polling quite decent numbers in the low to mid 30s. If the electorate had any gumption at all the Tories would already be in the teens, or worse.

    There is some speculation about inflation and our politics here. The one thing that is clear is that there is, as yet, no surge toward the conventional opposition

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/05/inflation-british-politics-recession-bank-of-england
    A good article. And worrying reading.

    - “One in five UK households will be left with no savings at all by 2024. “

    One of the biggest tragedies of modern society is that we ditched thrift. Consumerism will be the death of us. Quite literally.

    Schools must teach basic financial survival skills to the next generations. Starting with the importance of building up a strong buffer.

    - “And yet look at the Thursday poll that showed that, in a match-up of Starmer v Truss, it is Truss who is ahead by two points. Labour is in front in other surveys, of course, but given this climate it should be out of sight.”

    This is the killer point: Starmer is a total dud. Any half-competent Leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition ought to be smashing any and all named Con leaders off the field at this point in proceedings.

    Mike Smithson is a huge fan of the Leader stats, and with good reason. They have a great track record of being better prediction tools than headline VI.

    - “I asked Albrecht Ritschl, professor of economic history at the LSE, what single move the UK government could make to alleviate the pain. “Suspend Brexit for 20 years,” came the reply. He knows that’s not going to happen. But he explains that today’s crisis is not one of demand, but of supply: there’s just not enough stuff to meet demand, thanks in part to the post-Covid blockages in the global supply chain. In Britain, that’s exacerbated because we can no longer import European goods as freely or as cheaply as before.”

    England and the English economy is not going to recover until they admit the horrific unforced error they have committed. I confidently predict that they won’t, and therefore can’t.

    - “That decade brought a surge in political violence and a rise in support for the racist far right, in the form of the National Front. Under Boris Johnson, the Conservative party has shifted towards a nationalist populism that Truss seems unlikely to jettison. That creed is already of an ugly hue, but it could darken – especially when winter comes.”

    The Conservatives are now a meld of English Nationalists, Brexit Revolutionaries and far-right thinking. It will not end well.

    There is only one antidote, and that is the counter-revolution, which is inevitable. It is just a matter of time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292
    The Times wants us to feel sorry for the ISIS brides

    Grotesque. Build a courthouse in Kurdistan. Try them all and, if the locals decide, execute them all. The kids are more troubling but I’m finding it hard to be anything but *meh*

    “Is it time to bring home Britain’s Isis brides and their children?”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/65d2e6e0-0dae-11ed-a9bf-a27f3a730ce3?shareToken=8c1c576785f90bde7bf4c25863cf0297
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417

    This is another potential black swan event that would make our economic situation about 3-4 times worse than it already is.

    Imagine a comprehensive sanctions regime on China, which makes absolutely everything for us.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    https://academic.oup.com/ser/article/20/2/539/6500315?login=false

    Tax cuts for the rich increase inequality but do nothing for the economy,
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Sean thinks that the antidote to economic depression is xenophobia. He’s probably fairly representative of the hegemonic strand of English society who decide the outcome of elections.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited August 2022

    https://academic.oup.com/ser/article/20/2/539/6500315?login=false

    Tax cuts for the rich increase inequality but do nothing for the economy,

    The rich don’t care about “the economy”. That’s a problem for the plebs.

    The Tories look after Jack. And Jack’s alright.

    The problem for the Tories comes when Jack’s not alright. Rioters burning SUVs might be an example of such a scenario.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292

    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417

    This is another potential black swan event that would make our economic situation about 3-4 times worse than it already is.

    Imagine a comprehensive sanctions regime on China, which makes absolutely everything for us.
    It’s not a black swan. It’s a plain old regular swan, appearing, in a river known for its swans

    China is probably going to make a move on Taiwan. The question is more: will this be a blockade or outright invasion?

    I really hope the West is using the last few years/months, before this happens, to diversify our supply of chips

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Leon said:

    The Times wants us to feel sorry for the ISIS brides

    Grotesque. Build a courthouse in Kurdistan. Try them all and, if the locals decide, execute them all. The kids are more troubling but I’m finding it hard to be anything but *meh*

    “Is it time to bring home Britain’s Isis brides and their children?”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/65d2e6e0-0dae-11ed-a9bf-a27f3a730ce3?shareToken=8c1c576785f90bde7bf4c25863cf0297

    Christina Lamb is a superb journalist but has always been sentimentalist.

    I think any case for repatriation would have to be based on utter repentance and evidence they were groomed as children. Then, there would need to be an 18 month - 2 year programme of deradicalisation upon arrival too, and maybe regular social services/police check-ins for years. All of which would cost but might be the right to thing to do.

    Otherwise they made their bed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292

    Leon said:

    The Times wants us to feel sorry for the ISIS brides

    Grotesque. Build a courthouse in Kurdistan. Try them all and, if the locals decide, execute them all. The kids are more troubling but I’m finding it hard to be anything but *meh*

    “Is it time to bring home Britain’s Isis brides and their children?”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/65d2e6e0-0dae-11ed-a9bf-a27f3a730ce3?shareToken=8c1c576785f90bde7bf4c25863cf0297

    Christina Lamb is a superb journalist but has always been sentimentalist.

    I think any case for repatriation would have to be based on utter repentance and evidence they were groomed as children. Then, there would need to be an 18 month - 2 year programme of deradicalisation upon arrival too, and maybe regular social services/police check-ins for years. All of which would cost but might be the right to thing to do.

    Otherwise they made their bed.

    A friend of mine has interviewed Begum in that camp. He’s also full of this bleeding heart drivel. “Bring them home, she was groomed” etc etc

    When I suggest the locals, Syrians, Yazidis, Kurds, should instead put her on trial, he goes quiet. Because he knows they would execute her. So be it
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Good morning, everyone.

    Grooming's a serious thing, and shouldn't be taken lightly. It can be hard to tell if someone (usually but not always a man) is a good egg or someone of a nefarious nature.

    However, if that man or woman belongs to a group that's been top of the news for a year and more, and said group is notorious for crucifying children, industrial scale rape, genocide, and burning prisoners alive, and you *then* choose to fly a thousand miles to join it then I have as much sympathy as I do for someone condemned for joining the Nazis in 1945.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    The fundamental problem for the Conservatives is obviously that the energy crisis is a manifestation of the free market, so they have severe ideological difficulties with tackling it directly. But I think tackling it directly is what people are very much going to want them to do.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Notorious liar, conman and fearmonger Gordon Brown starts a moral crusade. There is simply not enough barf on the planet for hypocrites like that.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Mr. Chris, the irony is that the Labourite/Milibandish energy price cap increases the political flak the Conservatives are getting.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited August 2022
    Chris said:

    The fundamental problem for the Conservatives is obviously that the energy crisis is a manifestation of the free market, so they have severe ideological difficulties with tackling it directly. But I think tackling it directly is what people are very much going to want them to do.

    The energy market is an example of free market economics is it? I beg to differ.

    The Conservatives pumping GBP1.7 billion (USD2.3 billion) into one particular sect within the industry is hardly a level playing field.

    https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/UK-government-earmarks-funds-for-progressing-nucle

    There are hundreds of other examples of the Tories mucking about with the energy market. “Free” is something that it is definitely not.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962

    IanB2 said:

    “Yorkshire’s Liz Truss”, huh? I thought she was a Buddy.

    - “…makes me doubt the wisdom of laying a Labour majority at the next general election.”

    Lab Maj is currently 7/2, which looks like amazingly poor value to me, and an obvious LAY. I am, of course, open to counter arguments, but it appears to me that there are only two routes to Lab Maj:

    A. Labour landslide in England (45%+), or
    B. strong Labour recovery in Scotland (35%+)

    Anybody familiar with the polling data will know that both A and B look profoundly unlikely. On a good day English Labour are hovering around the 40% mark and Scottish Labour around the 20% mark. Good, but no cigars.

    Of course TSE is correct that an economic catastrophe makes A more likely, but I remain skeptical for the simple reason that so much has already gone catastrophically wrong for Cameron, May and The Oaf and yet they are still polling quite decent numbers in the low to mid 30s. If the electorate had any gumption at all the Tories would already be in the teens, or worse.

    There is some speculation about inflation and our politics here. The one thing that is clear is that there is, as yet, no surge toward the conventional opposition

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/05/inflation-british-politics-recession-bank-of-england
    A good article. And worrying reading.

    - “One in five UK households will be left with no savings at all by 2024. “

    One of the biggest tragedies of modern society is that we ditched thrift. Consumerism will be the death of us. Quite literally.

    Schools must teach basic financial survival skills to the next generations. Starting with the importance of building up a strong buffer.

    - “And yet look at the Thursday poll that showed that, in a match-up of Starmer v Truss, it is Truss who is ahead by two points. Labour is in front in other surveys, of course, but given this climate it should be out of sight.”

    This is the killer point: Starmer is a total dud. Any half-competent Leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition ought to be smashing any and all named Con leaders off the field at this point in proceedings.

    Mike Smithson is a huge fan of the Leader stats, and with good reason. They have a great track record of being better prediction tools than headline VI.

    - “I asked Albrecht Ritschl, professor of economic history at the LSE, what single move the UK government could make to alleviate the pain. “Suspend Brexit for 20 years,” came the reply. He knows that’s not going to happen. But he explains that today’s crisis is not one of demand, but of supply: there’s just not enough stuff to meet demand, thanks in part to the post-Covid blockages in the global supply chain. In Britain, that’s exacerbated because we can no longer import European goods as freely or as cheaply as before.”

    England and the English economy is not going to recover until they admit the horrific unforced error they have committed. I confidently predict that they won’t, and therefore can’t.

    - “That decade brought a surge in political violence and a rise in support for the racist far right, in the form of the National Front. Under Boris Johnson, the Conservative party has shifted towards a nationalist populism that Truss seems unlikely to jettison. That creed is already of an ugly hue, but it could darken – especially when winter comes.”

    The Conservatives are now a meld of English Nationalists, Brexit Revolutionaries and far-right thinking. It will not end well.

    There is only one antidote, and that is the counter-revolution, which is inevitable. It is just a matter of time.
    I've not been keeping up, is Frosty a Trusstafarian? If so there appears to be still a considerable amount of revolution to go. The flabby peer even calls it the Brexit Revolt.



    https://twitter.com/hayward_katy/status/1555826389592449030?s=20&t=LkqL6Te6B5DRdXXLl1igLg
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I will read the article bit the overwhelming argument against China trying anything serious with Taiwan is that China would destroy its own economy (along with the rest of the world) without even anyone implementing sanctions. .
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417

    This is another potential black swan event that would make our economic situation about 3-4 times worse than it already is.

    Imagine a comprehensive sanctions regime on China, which makes absolutely everything for us.
    It’s not a black swan. It’s a plain old regular swan, appearing, in a river known for its swans

    China is probably going to make a move on Taiwan. The question is more: will this be a blockade or outright invasion?

    I really hope the West is using the last few years/months, before this happens, to diversify our supply of chips

    Tugendhat has been saying this for years (as have I!). Globalisation has fatally undermined national security and strategic resilience. No one cares. He barely gets a hearing on this stuff. Most people in power think the world is is populated by people just like them and mistake the homogenisation in fashion, architecture and consumer trends for homogenisation of thought and common objective.

    It’s a nonsense of course. But we’ve had a long time in this country of this rot, most appallingly exemplified by the Quad during the Coalition years. It’s often said you don’t know a leader’s true legacy until 20 years after they’re gone. Here’s to hoping theirs remains austerity and Brexit and not something far far worse.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749

    Chris said:

    The fundamental problem for the Conservatives is obviously that the energy crisis is a manifestation of the free market, so they have severe ideological difficulties with tackling it directly. But I think tackling it directly is what people are very much going to want them to do.

    The energy market is an example of free market economics is it? I beg to differ.

    The Conservatives pumping GBP1.7 billion (USD2.3 billion) into one particular sect within the industry is hardly a level playing field.

    https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/UK-government-earmarks-funds-for-progressing-nucle

    There are hundreds of other examples of the Tories mucking about with the energy market. “Free” is something that it is definitely not.
    You can't be serious.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    Notorious liar, conman and fearmonger Gordon Brown starts a moral crusade. There is simply not enough barf on the planet for hypocrites like that.

    Well, he is not my political brand, but I see the warm hearted, generous civic nationalism showing its full joyful nature here. Whether you like him or not, Brown is respected in Scotland, which is more than- to take an example completely at random- Salmond now is.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Alistair said:

    I will read the article bit the overwhelming argument against China trying anything serious with Taiwan is that China would destroy its own economy (along with the rest of the world) without even anyone implementing sanctions. .

    It’s a big difference between Russia and China. Apart from O&G exports and fancy Western consumer good imports, Russia is quite an insular country.

    China, on the other hand, has built its whole economy on manufacturing and exporting to the world. The risk to it of getting into a conflict, is much more serious. While it would be impossible to sanction China in the same way as we have sanctioned Russia, we could definitely make life very difficult for them.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    Cicero said:

    Notorious liar, conman and fearmonger Gordon Brown starts a moral crusade. There is simply not enough barf on the planet for hypocrites like that.

    Well, he is not my political brand, but I see the warm hearted, generous civic nationalism showing its full joyful nature here. Whether you like him or not, Brown is respected in Scotland, which is more than- to take an example completely at random- Salmond now is.
    Have you any polling on this respect for Brown in Scotland?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417

    There is a certain strand in the US that is spoiling for a fight with Beijing. Personally I dont love dictatorships, but the PRC is not an illegitimate state and it is not our fight as to whether or how the Chinese people change things. Being dragged into a confrontation with China is something that Europeans should resist quite strongly, I think.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    IanB2 said:

    “Yorkshire’s Liz Truss”, huh? I thought she was a Buddy.

    - “…makes me doubt the wisdom of laying a Labour majority at the next general election.”

    Lab Maj is currently 7/2, which looks like amazingly poor value to me, and an obvious LAY. I am, of course, open to counter arguments, but it appears to me that there are only two routes to Lab Maj:

    A. Labour landslide in England (45%+), or
    B. strong Labour recovery in Scotland (35%+)

    Anybody familiar with the polling data will know that both A and B look profoundly unlikely. On a good day English Labour are hovering around the 40% mark and Scottish Labour around the 20% mark. Good, but no cigars.

    Of course TSE is correct that an economic catastrophe makes A more likely, but I remain skeptical for the simple reason that so much has already gone catastrophically wrong for Cameron, May and The Oaf and yet they are still polling quite decent numbers in the low to mid 30s. If the electorate had any gumption at all the Tories would already be in the teens, or worse.

    There is some speculation about inflation and our politics here. The one thing that is clear is that there is, as yet, no surge toward the conventional opposition

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/05/inflation-british-politics-recession-bank-of-england
    A good article. And worrying reading.

    - “One in five UK households will be left with no savings at all by 2024. “

    One of the biggest tragedies of modern society is that we ditched thrift. Consumerism will be the death of us. Quite literally.

    Schools must teach basic financial survival skills to the next generations. Starting with the importance of building up a strong buffer.

    - “And yet look at the Thursday poll that showed that, in a match-up of Starmer v Truss, it is Truss who is ahead by two points. Labour is in front in other surveys, of course, but given this climate it should be out of sight.”

    This is the killer point: Starmer is a total dud. Any half-competent Leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition ought to be smashing any and all named Con leaders off the field at this point in proceedings.

    Mike Smithson is a huge fan of the Leader stats, and with good reason. They have a great track record of being better prediction tools than headline VI.

    - “I asked Albrecht Ritschl, professor of economic history at the LSE, what single move the UK government could make to alleviate the pain. “Suspend Brexit for 20 years,” came the reply. He knows that’s not going to happen. But he explains that today’s crisis is not one of demand, but of supply: there’s just not enough stuff to meet demand, thanks in part to the post-Covid blockages in the global supply chain. In Britain, that’s exacerbated because we can no longer import European goods as freely or as cheaply as before.”

    England and the English economy is not going to recover until they admit the horrific unforced error they have committed. I confidently predict that they won’t, and therefore can’t.

    - “That decade brought a surge in political violence and a rise in support for the racist far right, in the form of the National Front. Under Boris Johnson, the Conservative party has shifted towards a nationalist populism that Truss seems unlikely to jettison. That creed is already of an ugly hue, but it could darken – especially when winter comes.”

    The Conservatives are now a meld of English Nationalists, Brexit Revolutionaries and far-right thinking. It will not end well.

    There is only one antidote, and that is the counter-revolution, which is inevitable. It is just a matter of time.
    I've not been keeping up, is Frosty a Trusstafarian? If so there appears to be still a considerable amount of revolution to go. The flabby peer even calls it the Brexit Revolt.



    https://twitter.com/hayward_katy/status/1555826389592449030?s=20&t=LkqL6Te6B5DRdXXLl1igLg
    French Revolution 1789
    Reign of Terror 1793-94

    English Revolution 2016-20
    Frost’s Reign of Terror ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    FPT - just caught up on last night's thread.

    Can we all chip in to get @Leon some therapy please?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Header about imminent economic crisis, and what do Tories choose to focus on? Some gullible teenagers last decade.

    This is the blame game in action: it’s their* fault.

    (*insert scapegoat du jour)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417

    There is a certain strand in the US that is spoiling for a fight with Beijing. Personally I dont love dictatorships, but the PRC is not an illegitimate state and it is not our fight as to whether or how the Chinese people change things. Being dragged into a confrontation with China is something that Europeans should resist quite strongly, I think.
    Oh, you can bet your bottom dollar Europeans* will do nothing at all - just as they do against Russia.

    (*Poland and the Baltics being possibly the only exceptions.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    FPT - just caught up on last night's thread.

    Can we all chip in to get @Leon some therapy please?

    The mods might want to delete the link he posted to the ‘adult’ website too.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    IanB2 said:

    “Yorkshire’s Liz Truss”, huh? I thought she was a Buddy.

    - “…makes me doubt the wisdom of laying a Labour majority at the next general election.”

    Lab Maj is currently 7/2, which looks like amazingly poor value to me, and an obvious LAY. I am, of course, open to counter arguments, but it appears to me that there are only two routes to Lab Maj:

    A. Labour landslide in England (45%+), or
    B. strong Labour recovery in Scotland (35%+)

    Anybody familiar with the polling data will know that both A and B look profoundly unlikely. On a good day English Labour are hovering around the 40% mark and Scottish Labour around the 20% mark. Good, but no cigars.

    Of course TSE is correct that an economic catastrophe makes A more likely, but I remain skeptical for the simple reason that so much has already gone catastrophically wrong for Cameron, May and The Oaf and yet they are still polling quite decent numbers in the low to mid 30s. If the electorate had any gumption at all the Tories would already be in the teens, or worse.

    There is some speculation about inflation and our politics here. The one thing that is clear is that there is, as yet, no surge toward the conventional opposition

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/05/inflation-british-politics-recession-bank-of-england
    A good article. And worrying reading.

    - “One in five UK households will be left with no savings at all by 2024. “

    One of the biggest tragedies of modern society is that we ditched thrift. Consumerism will be the death of us. Quite literally.

    Schools must teach basic financial survival skills to the next generations. Starting with the importance of building up a strong buffer.

    - “And yet look at the Thursday poll that showed that, in a match-up of Starmer v Truss, it is Truss who is ahead by two points. Labour is in front in other surveys, of course, but given this climate it should be out of sight.”

    This is the killer point: Starmer is a total dud. Any half-competent Leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition ought to be smashing any and all named Con leaders off the field at this point in proceedings.

    Mike Smithson is a huge fan of the Leader stats, and with good reason. They have a great track record of being better prediction tools than headline VI.

    - “I asked Albrecht Ritschl, professor of economic history at the LSE, what single move the UK government could make to alleviate the pain. “Suspend Brexit for 20 years,” came the reply. He knows that’s not going to happen. But he explains that today’s crisis is not one of demand, but of supply: there’s just not enough stuff to meet demand, thanks in part to the post-Covid blockages in the global supply chain. In Britain, that’s exacerbated because we can no longer import European goods as freely or as cheaply as before.”

    England and the English economy is not going to recover until they admit the horrific unforced error they have committed. I confidently predict that they won’t, and therefore can’t.

    - “That decade brought a surge in political violence and a rise in support for the racist far right, in the form of the National Front. Under Boris Johnson, the Conservative party has shifted towards a nationalist populism that Truss seems unlikely to jettison. That creed is already of an ugly hue, but it could darken – especially when winter comes.”

    The Conservatives are now a meld of English Nationalists, Brexit Revolutionaries and far-right thinking. It will not end well.

    There is only one antidote, and that is the counter-revolution, which is inevitable. It is just a matter of time.
    I've not been keeping up, is Frosty a Trusstafarian? If so there appears to be still a considerable amount of revolution to go. The flabby peer even calls it the Brexit Revolt.



    https://twitter.com/hayward_katy/status/1555826389592449030?s=20&t=LkqL6Te6B5DRdXXLl1igLg
    Frost is wrong.

    People voted Conservative in 2019 to Get Brexit Done and make it go away, so we could move on.

    They were sick of hearing about it. They don't want to "sustain the revolt". They want domestic public services and the economy fixed.

    If voters sense that (and Labour are smart) then they will start to vote Labour the other way to make it go away again.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    You might think that the Conservative Party would have learnt that determined boosterism unbacked by actual ideas is the road to ruin. Boris Johnson’s premiership failed because style without substance is, in the end, always found out. Truss has more to her than Johnson did but she is still a Tigger in a time for Eeyore. You cannot boast or boost your way out of recession. Denial is a river whose waters are the deepest, truest, shade of Tory blue.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alex-massie-rishi-sunak-and-liz-truss-are-living-in-another-world-hn5mbl3pd
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    F1: some head-to-head stats that may be of interest:
    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.head-to-head-how-do-the-f1-team-mates-stack-up-against-each-other-at-the.3e0iDJk1s9OSGWeJ3FIeri.html

    Mercedes benefiting from a combination of a great drivers and excellent reliability.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Two predictions: Truss will be forced by events to take action on energy bills beyond tax cuts for the relatively well off; The start of the university year will not be changed.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    IanB2 said:

    “Yorkshire’s Liz Truss”, huh? I thought she was a Buddy.

    - “…makes me doubt the wisdom of laying a Labour majority at the next general election.”

    Lab Maj is currently 7/2, which looks like amazingly poor value to me, and an obvious LAY. I am, of course, open to counter arguments, but it appears to me that there are only two routes to Lab Maj:

    A. Labour landslide in England (45%+), or
    B. strong Labour recovery in Scotland (35%+)

    Anybody familiar with the polling data will know that both A and B look profoundly unlikely. On a good day English Labour are hovering around the 40% mark and Scottish Labour around the 20% mark. Good, but no cigars.

    Of course TSE is correct that an economic catastrophe makes A more likely, but I remain skeptical for the simple reason that so much has already gone catastrophically wrong for Cameron, May and The Oaf and yet they are still polling quite decent numbers in the low to mid 30s. If the electorate had any gumption at all the Tories would already be in the teens, or worse.

    There is some speculation about inflation and our politics here. The one thing that is clear is that there is, as yet, no surge toward the conventional opposition

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/05/inflation-british-politics-recession-bank-of-england
    A good article. And worrying reading.

    - “One in five UK households will be left with no savings at all by 2024. “

    One of the biggest tragedies of modern society is that we ditched thrift. Consumerism will be the death of us. Quite literally.

    Schools must teach basic financial survival skills to the next generations. Starting with the importance of building up a strong buffer.
    They do.

    Just as they teach safe sex, responsible parenting and arithmetic.

    That doesn't mean everyone listens.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    ping said:

    In better news, some smart guy from Brunel has just come up with a solution to a problem I’ve had for a while;

    https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/articles/-Head-mounted-device-allows-deaf-cyclists-to-'feel'-surrounding-traffic

    I’ve just emailed him, giving him my support and offering a few suggestions. I’m somewhat doubtful it’ll make it into a viable commercial product (pretty niche, fairly small potential market - deaf cyclists who don’t wear helmets) but it would be great if it does. Even better if he can integrate it into a helmet, which looks technically feasible from where I’m standing.

    One of the phone companies in the lead up to Glastonbury made a “haptic suit” for a deaf man so that as the music played he would “feel” the music over his body. He was amazed and overjoyed by the results.

    Was wondering if haptics could be a solution re the cycling where some proximity sensor would relay to haptics in a vest/jacket which you would feel indicating where the vehicle or person is coming from and could even indicate distance as strength of vibration gets stronger or quicker the nearer they are?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited August 2022

    Only one pollster, to my knowledge, publishes England-only VI data, and I can’t be bothered wading through mountains of tables to extract the data (feel free if you have the time), so I’ve only perused the GB/UK data (which is nowadays a surprisingly poor proxy for English voting intention).

    As far as I can see, Labour have only reached 45% on one occasion since the 2019 GE:

    Survation, 6 July 2022:
    Lab 45%
    Con 31%
    LD 11%
    SNP 5%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%
    oth 5%

    The Tories have polled 45%+ on 50 - yes, fifty - occasions. Peaking at 55%. Admittedly further back in time, but indicative of the huge Tory lean in English society.

    You say “Tory lean”, I say “split left and batshit electoral system”.

    Lab+LD+Green comfortably outpaces the Tories. Not every time, but much more often than not. Were it not for FPTP we would have sensible European-style politics.

    Someone should write a thread header about it.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Yesterday it was Andrew Neil, today it’s Daniel Hannan:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/06/miserable-truth-leaders-dont-want-us-have-cheap-energy/

    No, we are in this mess because, for most of the twenty-first century, we have ignored economic reality in pursuit of theatrical decarbonisation. Actually, no, that understates our foolishness. Decarbonisation will happen eventually, as alternative energy sources become cheaper than fossil fuels. It is proper for governments to seek to speed that process up. But this goes well beyond emitting less CO2. Our intellectual and cultural leaders – TV producers, novelists, bishops, the lot – see fuel consumption itself as a problem. What they want is not green growth, but less growth.

    But raising the price of energy is not something we can do in isolation. When power becomes more expensive, so does everything else. Fuel is not simply one among many commodities; it is the enabler of exchange, the motor of efficiency, the vector of economic growth.

    When did you last hear a politician admit as much? When did you hear any public figure extol cheap energy as an agent of poverty alleviation? When did you hear any historian describe how coal and later oil liberated the mass of humanity from back-breaking drudgery and led to the elimination of slavery?
  • IanB2 said:

    “Yorkshire’s Liz Truss”, huh? I thought she was a Buddy.

    - “…makes me doubt the wisdom of laying a Labour majority at the next general election.”

    Lab Maj is currently 7/2, which looks like amazingly poor value to me, and an obvious LAY. I am, of course, open to counter arguments, but it appears to me that there are only two routes to Lab Maj:

    A. Labour landslide in England (45%+), or
    B. strong Labour recovery in Scotland (35%+)

    Anybody familiar with the polling data will know that both A and B look profoundly unlikely. On a good day English Labour are hovering around the 40% mark and Scottish Labour around the 20% mark. Good, but no cigars.

    Of course TSE is correct that an economic catastrophe makes A more likely, but I remain skeptical for the simple reason that so much has already gone catastrophically wrong for Cameron, May and The Oaf and yet they are still polling quite decent numbers in the low to mid 30s. If the electorate had any gumption at all the Tories would already be in the teens, or worse.

    There is some speculation about inflation and our politics here. The one thing that is clear is that there is, as yet, no surge toward the conventional opposition

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/05/inflation-british-politics-recession-bank-of-england
    A good article. And worrying reading.

    - “One in five UK households will be left with no savings at all by 2024. “

    One of the biggest tragedies of modern society is that we ditched thrift. Consumerism will be the death of us. Quite literally.

    Schools must teach basic financial survival skills to the next generations. Starting with the importance of building up a strong buffer.

    - “And yet look at the Thursday poll that showed that, in a match-up of Starmer v Truss, it is Truss who is ahead by two points. Labour is in front in other surveys, of course, but given this climate it should be out of sight.”

    This is the killer point: Starmer is a total dud. Any half-competent Leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition ought to be smashing any and all named Con leaders off the field at this point in proceedings.

    Mike Smithson is a huge fan of the Leader stats, and with good reason. They have a great track record of being better prediction tools than headline VI.

    - “I asked Albrecht Ritschl, professor of economic history at the LSE, what single move the UK government could make to alleviate the pain. “Suspend Brexit for 20 years,” came the reply. He knows that’s not going to happen. But he explains that today’s crisis is not one of demand, but of supply: there’s just not enough stuff to meet demand, thanks in part to the post-Covid blockages in the global supply chain. In Britain, that’s exacerbated because we can no longer import European goods as freely or as cheaply as before.”

    England and the English economy is not going to recover until they admit the horrific unforced error they have committed. I confidently predict that they won’t, and therefore can’t.

    - “That decade brought a surge in political violence and a rise in support for the racist far right, in the form of the National Front. Under Boris Johnson, the Conservative party has shifted towards a nationalist populism that Truss seems unlikely to jettison. That creed is already of an ugly hue, but it could darken – especially when winter comes.”

    The Conservatives are now a meld of English Nationalists, Brexit Revolutionaries and far-right thinking. It will not end well.

    There is only one antidote, and that is the counter-revolution, which is inevitable. It is just a matter of time.
    I've not been keeping up, is Frosty a Trusstafarian? If so there appears to be still a considerable amount of revolution to go. The flabby peer even calls it the Brexit Revolt.



    https://twitter.com/hayward_katy/status/1555826389592449030?s=20&t=LkqL6Te6B5DRdXXLl1igLg
    Frost is wrong.

    People voted Conservative in 2019 to Get Brexit Done and make it go away, so we could move on.

    They were sick of hearing about it. They don't want to "sustain the revolt". They want domestic public services and the economy fixed.

    If voters sense that (and Labour are smart) then they will start to vote Labour the other way to make it go away again.
    Yep, most people want a quiet life politically and economically. They do not want constant upheaval and confrontation. That is why they tend to react against extremism except in the most extreme circumstances. The Tories used to understand this.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    Sandpit said:

    Yesterday it was Andrew Neil, today it’s Daniel Hannan:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/06/miserable-truth-leaders-dont-want-us-have-cheap-energy/

    No, we are in this mess because, for most of the twenty-first century, we have ignored economic reality

    That's a truly epic self-awareness fail from Hannan, who has been ignoring economic reality for decades.
  • IanB2 said:

    “Yorkshire’s Liz Truss”, huh? I thought she was a Buddy.

    - “…makes me doubt the wisdom of laying a Labour majority at the next general election.”

    Lab Maj is currently 7/2, which looks like amazingly poor value to me, and an obvious LAY. I am, of course, open to counter arguments, but it appears to me that there are only two routes to Lab Maj:

    A. Labour landslide in England (45%+), or
    B. strong Labour recovery in Scotland (35%+)

    Anybody familiar with the polling data will know that both A and B look profoundly unlikely. On a good day English Labour are hovering around the 40% mark and Scottish Labour around the 20% mark. Good, but no cigars.

    Of course TSE is correct that an economic catastrophe makes A more likely, but I remain skeptical for the simple reason that so much has already gone catastrophically wrong for Cameron, May and The Oaf and yet they are still polling quite decent numbers in the low to mid 30s. If the electorate had any gumption at all the Tories would already be in the teens, or worse.

    There is some speculation about inflation and our politics here. The one thing that is clear is that there is, as yet, no surge toward the conventional opposition

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/05/inflation-british-politics-recession-bank-of-england
    A good article. And worrying reading.

    - “One in five UK households will be left with no savings at all by 2024. “

    One of the biggest tragedies of modern society is that we ditched thrift. Consumerism will be the death of us. Quite literally.

    Schools must teach basic financial survival skills to the next generations. Starting with the importance of building up a strong buffer.

    - “And yet look at the Thursday poll that showed that, in a match-up of Starmer v Truss, it is Truss who is ahead by two points. Labour is in front in other surveys, of course, but given this climate it should be out of sight.”

    This is the killer point: Starmer is a total dud. Any half-competent Leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition ought to be smashing any and all named Con leaders off the field at this point in proceedings.

    Mike Smithson is a huge fan of the Leader stats, and with good reason. They have a great track record of being better prediction tools than headline VI.

    - “I asked Albrecht Ritschl, professor of economic history at the LSE, what single move the UK government could make to alleviate the pain. “Suspend Brexit for 20 years,” came the reply. He knows that’s not going to happen. But he explains that today’s crisis is not one of demand, but of supply: there’s just not enough stuff to meet demand, thanks in part to the post-Covid blockages in the global supply chain. In Britain, that’s exacerbated because we can no longer import European goods as freely or as cheaply as before.”

    England and the English economy is not going to recover until they admit the horrific unforced error they have committed. I confidently predict that they won’t, and therefore can’t.

    - “That decade brought a surge in political violence and a rise in support for the racist far right, in the form of the National Front. Under Boris Johnson, the Conservative party has shifted towards a nationalist populism that Truss seems unlikely to jettison. That creed is already of an ugly hue, but it could darken – especially when winter comes.”

    The Conservatives are now a meld of English Nationalists, Brexit Revolutionaries and far-right thinking. It will not end well.

    There is only one antidote, and that is the counter-revolution, which is inevitable. It is just a matter of time.
    I've not been keeping up, is Frosty a Trusstafarian? If so there appears to be still a considerable amount of revolution to go. The flabby peer even calls it the Brexit Revolt.



    https://twitter.com/hayward_katy/status/1555826389592449030?s=20&t=LkqL6Te6B5DRdXXLl1igLg
    French Revolution 1789
    Reign of Terror 1793-94

    English Revolution 2016-20
    Frost’s Reign of Terror ?
    David Frost and Digby Jones are the perfect exemplars of the mediocrity of mind that has been such a drag on the UK for decades. Has anyone ever seen them in the same room together?

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Good morning everybody.
    I thought part of the rise in national insurance costs was to assist with care costs. How does Ms Truss propose to deal with those?
  • Sandpit said:

    Yesterday it was Andrew Neil, today it’s Daniel Hannan:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/06/miserable-truth-leaders-dont-want-us-have-cheap-energy/

    No, we are in this mess because, for most of the twenty-first century, we have ignored economic reality in pursuit of theatrical decarbonisation. Actually, no, that understates our foolishness. Decarbonisation will happen eventually, as alternative energy sources become cheaper than fossil fuels. It is proper for governments to seek to speed that process up. But this goes well beyond emitting less CO2. Our intellectual and cultural leaders – TV producers, novelists, bishops, the lot – see fuel consumption itself as a problem. What they want is not green growth, but less growth.

    But raising the price of energy is not something we can do in isolation. When power becomes more expensive, so does everything else. Fuel is not simply one among many commodities; it is the enabler of exchange, the motor of efficiency, the vector of economic growth.

    When did you last hear a politician admit as much? When did you hear any public figure extol cheap energy as an agent of poverty alleviation? When did you hear any historian describe how coal and later oil liberated the mass of humanity from back-breaking drudgery and led to the elimination of slavery?


    It's all everyone else's fault, part 18,905

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417

    I can't see that because it's paywalled but I think things get easier for China for a decade or so, as:
    1) Military power tends to lag economic power
    2) They still have plenty more catch-up growth to do relative to the US
    3) The rest of the world (especially India) is also growing, which makes US sanctions less effective
    4) They're increasing their ability to make stuff they're currently relying on Taiwan for

    The real question about what they'll do involves domestic Chinese politics, which I don't think anyone here knows about.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    King Cole, I think Truss' approach to economic headwinds is twofold:
    1) shut your eyes really tight
    2) sing "la la la la la"
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    I like Sunak’s plans re boosting vocational learning and ramping technical colleges whilst cutting crap degrees.

    Not sure what the teachers think of these plans in the article but as a lay man they seem good to me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/rishi-sunak-vows-to-end-low-earning-degrees-in-post-16-education-shake-up
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    King Cole, I think Truss' approach to economic headwinds is twofold:
    1) shut your eyes really tight
    2) sing "la la la la la"

    More realistically her approach is to say whatever she has to say to win the leadership election, then worry about what to do about the economy when she no longer has to pander to the membership.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    boulay said:

    I like Sunak’s plans re boosting vocational learning and ramping technical colleges whilst cutting crap degrees.

    Not sure what the teachers think of these plans in the article but as a lay man they seem good to me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/rishi-sunak-vows-to-end-low-earning-degrees-in-post-16-education-shake-up

    That’s one of the most sensible things he’s said during the campaign. At least both candidates understand that education needs serious reform.

    Whether they can actually effect meaningful reform, is of course a question left to the reader.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yesterday it was Andrew Neil, today it’s Daniel Hannan:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/06/miserable-truth-leaders-dont-want-us-have-cheap-energy/

    No, we are in this mess because, for most of the twenty-first century, we have ignored economic reality

    That's a truly epic self-awareness fail from Hannan, who has been ignoring economic reality for decades.
    A report says (I've not checked) that fuel costs at the pump in the US are still only half the typical European price. Why is the free market not working to dequalise that, bar the presumably relatively low cost of sending some tankers over?

    In response to Hannan, the view that growth is bad in itself is still only held by a small minority. A much larger group feels that the problem of avoiding rising climate-changing emissions as a result of growth is difficult, so their position is "growth is only OK if..." Hannan's view, as I understand it, is that growth is fine regardless, and we can leave it to the market to sort out decarbonisation sometime. That, too, is a minority view, because it's evident that the niterest of the individual consumer or producer doesn't necessarily coincide with the national interest.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yesterday it was Andrew Neil, today it’s Daniel Hannan:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/06/miserable-truth-leaders-dont-want-us-have-cheap-energy/

    No, we are in this mess because, for most of the twenty-first century, we have ignored economic reality

    That's a truly epic self-awareness fail from Hannan, who has been ignoring economic reality for decades.
    And also appears unable to grasp the concept of anthropogenic global warming.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    The Tory civil war rages out of control like a forest fire https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1556146544046477312
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    I like Sunak’s plans re boosting vocational learning and ramping technical colleges whilst cutting crap degrees.

    Not sure what the teachers think of these plans in the article but as a lay man they seem good to me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/rishi-sunak-vows-to-end-low-earning-degrees-in-post-16-education-shake-up

    Maths at post 16 is bullshit for two very good reasons (1) there aren't enough teachers to teach it and (2) even if they did A-level maths is totally irrelevant to the job market of technical skills he's talking about, so it would require a new qualification. That takes five years to bring in.

    Moreover, he just doesn't appreciate how much some children really hate maths. Getting them to resit GCSE when they've failed it is hard enough. Force them to do it for no reason at all and he will literally be dangling from a lamp post.

    Giving charge of technical qualifications to the professional bodies is a much smarter idea, but will never happen unless you abolish OFQUAL and the DfE who will refuse to hand over control. Admittedly,if he did that it would be a tremendous boost to education.

    Universities, just ill-informed bullshit based on snobbery, bit like the sort of stuff we see round here too often.

    CPD for teachers, again, nonsense. The key thing is to keep them in the classroom not obsess about how shit they are,which they mostly aren't. In any case, it's going to be unattainable as his government is in the process of shutting the routes for teacher training which is the key source of CPD.

    Red meat to the loons. He was my choice ahead of Truss because he appeared sane and with at least a shaky grasp of reality. I'm
    rapidly coming to the conclusion that neither's fit for office.
    So I’ll put you down as a “maybe”?

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ydoethur said:

    Red meat to the loons. He was my choice ahead of Truss because he appeared sane and with at least a shaky grasp of reality. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that neither's fit for office.

    Until the Conservative and Unionist Party rediscover their beliefs (and purge Brexit) they shouldn't win

    so when they said we will have a “Festival of Brexit”, what they meant was a “Recession”
    https://twitter.com/kingstonwrites/status/1555847893118066688

    Brexit is a flop, and the voters know it. So why can’t Labour call for a closer bond with Europe? | Roy Hattersley https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/31/now-voters-know-we-cant-make-brexit-work-labour-must-call-for-closer-bond-with-europe
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2022

    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417


    4) They're increasing their ability to make stuff they're currently relying on Taiwan for
    That article points out they are at a dead end. They've copied a two generation old chip fabbing technique with no route to improving.

    The fundamentals still hold. China attacks Taiwan and their high tech assembly industry collapses as the only source of these chips is Taiwan.

    And then the West seizes up as they are reliant on the flow of those chips too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    I like Sunak’s plans re boosting vocational learning and ramping technical colleges whilst cutting crap degrees.

    Not sure what the teachers think of these plans in the article but as a lay man they seem good to me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/rishi-sunak-vows-to-end-low-earning-degrees-in-post-16-education-shake-up

    Maths at post 16 is bullshit for two very good reasons (1) there aren't enough teachers to teach it and (2) even if they did A-level maths is totally irrelevant to the job market of technical skills he's talking about, so it would require a new qualification. That takes five years to bring in.

    Moreover, he just doesn't appreciate how much some children really hate maths. Getting them to resit GCSE when they've failed it is hard enough. Force them to do it for no reason at all and he will literally be dangling from a lamp post.

    Giving charge of technical qualifications to the professional bodies is a much smarter idea, but will never happen unless you abolish OFQUAL and the DfE who will refuse to hand over control. Admittedly,if he did that it would be a tremendous boost to education.

    Universities, just ill-informed bullshit based on snobbery, bit like the sort of stuff we see round here too often.

    CPD for teachers, again, nonsense. The key thing is to keep them in the classroom not obsess about how shit they are,which they mostly aren't. In any case, it's going to be unattainable as his government is in the process of shutting the routes for teacher training which is the key source of CPD.

    Red meat to the loons. He was my choice ahead of Truss because he appeared sane and with at least a shaky grasp of reality. I'm
    rapidly coming to the conclusion that neither's fit for office.
    So I’ll put you down as a “maybe”?

    You can put me down as saying 'among the bullshit there's one interesting idea if it can be implemented but the rest is more useless and dangerous than Dominic Cummings.'

    Which to be fair is par for the course with politicians when it comes to education.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I like Sunak’s plans re boosting vocational learning and ramping technical colleges whilst cutting crap degrees.

    Not sure what the teachers think of these plans in the article but as a lay man they seem good to me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/rishi-sunak-vows-to-end-low-earning-degrees-in-post-16-education-shake-up

    That’s one of the most sensible things he’s said during the campaign. At least both candidates understand that education needs serious reform.

    Whether they can actually effect meaningful reform, is of course a question left to the reader.
    I haven't seen much evidence of Ms Truss wanting meaningful educational reform. As far as I can see starting the University term in January rather than September will simply made an increase in the number of baristas and other catering staff during the autumn. That is assuming, of course, that the school year remains unchanged.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    Scott_xP said:

    You might think that the Conservative Party would have learnt that determined boosterism unbacked by actual ideas is the road to ruin. Boris Johnson’s premiership failed because style without substance is, in the end, always found out. Truss has more to her than Johnson did but she is still a Tigger in a time for Eeyore. You cannot boast or boost your way out of recession. Denial is a river whose waters are the deepest, truest, shade of Tory blue.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alex-massie-rishi-sunak-and-liz-truss-are-living-in-another-world-hn5mbl3pd

    As I said yesterday, the absence of decision-making at the moment is a growing scandal. Sure, the Tories have reasonably decided they need a new leader. It's their business and we should let them get on with it and let us know in due course who they've chosen - we shall listen with mild interest. But that doesn't mean that the entire country has to grind to a halt while they ponder the relative virtues of Truss and Sunak. Governments are supposed to govern regardless of the internal proccupations of political parties.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/zombie-government-more-than-half-of-departments-delay-key-decisions
  • Only one pollster, to my knowledge, publishes England-only VI data, and I can’t be bothered wading through mountains of tables to extract the data (feel free if you have the time), so I’ve only perused the GB/UK data (which is nowadays a surprisingly poor proxy for English voting intention).

    As far as I can see, Labour have only reached 45% on one occasion since the 2019 GE:

    Survation, 6 July 2022:
    Lab 45%
    Con 31%
    LD 11%
    SNP 5%
    Grn 3%
    Ref 2%
    oth 5%

    The Tories have polled 45%+ on 50 - yes, fifty - occasions. Peaking at 55%. Admittedly further back in time, but indicative of the huge Tory lean in English society.

    It’s all about the blame game now. PM Truss is gonna blame absolutely everyone but her own government. She might just get away with it.

    PM Truss is going to blame Boris's government, just as Boris blamed Cameron's and May's. It worked. Liz will blame Boris (and by extension, Rishi) and Putin and Covid.
    This time it won't work. A government which preaches the morality of tax cuts for energy companies and the immorality of "handouts" for the victims of energy companies is beneath the public's contempt.

    A programme to lay out to who is to blame for this disaster whilst not doing anything about it will not work. People in deep shit don't want to know who to blame that isn't the government, they just want rescue.

    And the Tories won't rescue them. Because deep down this party no longer gives a rat fuck.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Good morning everybody.
    I thought part of the rise in national insurance costs was to assist with care costs. How does Ms Truss propose to deal with those?

    By not caring.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    The Tories think they've been choosing a leader. In fact, they've been choosing an electoral coalition. My column for @thetimes (plus quick thread below) https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/they-may-not-realise-it-yet-but-the-tories-are-actually-choosing-boris-johnson-over-david-cameron-87n0n5j29

    This fits with polling of the wider public. YouGov finds Con voters prefer Truss as PM by 39-30, Lib Dem voters prefer Sunak by 51-9. He wins Remainers 37-15, she wins Leavers 38-24. He wins ABC1s, she wins C2DEs. He wins London and the South, she pulls it back as you go north.

    In short, the Tories think they're voting on policy and personality. But what they're actually doing is choosing between someone who appeals more to their new, Leave, working-class vote (but is vulnerable to Lib Dems in the South)...

    ...vs someone who appeals more to their old, Southern, middle-class vote (but is vulnerable to Labour in the North). In other words, between the Cameron version of their electoral coalition and the Johnson one.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Scott_xP said:

    You might think that the Conservative Party would have learnt that determined boosterism unbacked by actual ideas is the road to ruin. Boris Johnson’s premiership failed because style without substance is, in the end, always found out. Truss has more to her than Johnson did but she is still a Tigger in a time for Eeyore. You cannot boast or boost your way out of recession. Denial is a river whose waters are the deepest, truest, shade of Tory blue.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alex-massie-rishi-sunak-and-liz-truss-are-living-in-another-world-hn5mbl3pd

    As I said yesterday, the absence of decision-making at the moment is a growing scandal. Sure, the Tories have reasonably decided they need a new leader. It's their business and we should let them get on with it and let us know in due course who they've chosen - we shall listen with mild interest. But that doesn't mean that the entire country has to grind to a halt while they ponder the relative virtues of Truss and Sunak. Governments are supposed to govern regardless of the internal proccupations of political parties.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/zombie-government-more-than-half-of-departments-delay-key-decisions
    I’m sure Starmer will be on the airwaves every day next week, extolling the virtues of replacing this bunch of indecisives.

    Oh wait, he’s on holiday too!
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Reducing carbon dioxide emissions is a noble aim. Tailor-made for the virtuous middle-class. The problem is when idealism clashes with reality and basic economics.

    India will do it only when they get something from it. In their case, it's cash. For China, it's prestige , but going too fast guarantees povery for those who haven't the money. The green levy is sacrosanct, the screams of rage from the well-off middle class would be hyperbolic if it were scrapped or tampered with. Cue nailing heads to anything which would bugger up normal life for other people. Can I suggest setting yourself on fire in Beijing? Just a thought.

    The main problem is Governments tend to look only to the next election. Basic short-termism. Gimmicks over practicality. Large sums spent on beneifits only a decade ahead means time spent in opposition. Nuclear is carbon-neutral even if the gives the greens the vapours. They'd rather virtue-signal while they have the chance.

    A pox on all their houses.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    Leon said:

    The Times wants us to feel sorry for the ISIS brides

    Grotesque. Build a courthouse in Kurdistan. Try them all and, if the locals decide, execute them all. The kids are more troubling but I’m finding it hard to be anything but *meh*

    “Is it time to bring home Britain’s Isis brides and their children?”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/65d2e6e0-0dae-11ed-a9bf-a27f3a730ce3?shareToken=8c1c576785f90bde7bf4c25863cf0297

    Christina Lamb is a superb journalist but has always been sentimentalist.

    I think any case for repatriation would have to be based on utter repentance and evidence they were groomed as children. Then, there would need to be an 18 month - 2 year programme of deradicalisation upon arrival too, and maybe regular social services/police check-ins for years. All of which would cost but might be the right to thing to do.

    Otherwise they made their bed.
    I think that evidence of repentance for adults and non-involvement for kids would do. But it does strike me as onbjectionable that we should prioritise them over the numerous other refugees to whom we continue to offer a hostile environment. If we collectively decide we can accommodate more refugees, why don't we start with, for example, taking more Syrians or Afghans with no record of involvement in politics at all?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, I crossed 50,000 posts last night, in the eight and a half years since I returned to the site.

    Appropriately no. 50,000 was a pun on Ishmael and Hagar.

    Lazy b****** that I am, I am still 6.5k behind you. I think these numbers are from when we changed to Vanilla so you must have been back on by then.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    Leon said:

    A WSJ article which makes a persuasive case that China will make a move on Taiwan in the next 5 years, possibly next 18 months


    Why? Because China will not grow stronger forever, and the USA + allies might be at their weakest right now

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-war-over-taiwan-11659614417

    This is another potential black swan event that would make our economic situation about 3-4 times worse than it already is.

    Imagine a comprehensive sanctions regime on China, which makes absolutely everything for us.
    I can't see an invasion. But what would we do about a blockade? A Berlin airlift sort of thing would be logistically extremely difficult.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    Good morning everybody.
    I thought part of the rise in national insurance costs was to assist with care costs. How does Ms Truss propose to deal with those?

    By not caring.
    Might be interesting if somebody actually asked her the question!
  • Sandpit said:

    Yesterday it was Andrew Neil, today it’s Daniel Hannan:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/06/miserable-truth-leaders-dont-want-us-have-cheap-energy/

    No, we are in this mess because, for most of the twenty-first century, we have ignored economic reality in pursuit of theatrical decarbonisation. Actually, no, that understates our foolishness. Decarbonisation will happen eventually, as alternative energy sources become cheaper than fossil fuels. It is proper for governments to seek to speed that process up. But this goes well beyond emitting less CO2. Our intellectual and cultural leaders – TV producers, novelists, bishops, the lot – see fuel consumption itself as a problem. What they want is not green growth, but less growth.

    But raising the price of energy is not something we can do in isolation. When power becomes more expensive, so does everything else. Fuel is not simply one among many commodities; it is the enabler of exchange, the motor of efficiency, the vector of economic growth.

    When did you last hear a politician admit as much? When did you hear any public figure extol cheap energy as an agent of poverty alleviation? When did you hear any historian describe how coal and later oil liberated the mass of humanity from back-breaking drudgery and led to the elimination of slavery?

    Hang on a minute. Where is the bountiful cheap energy we have been ignoring?

    Gas? This *was* cheap. But the free market "Dash for Gas" allowed scumbags like Norweb build gas-fired power stations to burn North Sea reserves in a decade. Which makes us reliant on imported gas from dodgy places which isn't cheao.

    Coal? We *could* have invested in CCS and kept places like Drax open, burning domestic coal and pumping the emissions underground. But no, coal miners are communists.

    Nuclear? The chance for a renaissance of British nuclear was killed by Nick Clegg in 2010. So what we have is now decades late and absurdly expensive.

    Which leaves renewables. We *could* have been leading on this. We have a lot of wind turbines - built by countries like Germany - and increasingly solar. With absurd rigged transmission prices to make it expensive despite us having so much available. Put solar and a battery on every new build for the last decade and that would have made a real difference.

    So what is Hannanananan drooling on about?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    You might think that the Conservative Party would have learnt that determined boosterism unbacked by actual ideas is the road to ruin. Boris Johnson’s premiership failed because style without substance is, in the end, always found out. Truss has more to her than Johnson did but she is still a Tigger in a time for Eeyore. You cannot boast or boost your way out of recession. Denial is a river whose waters are the deepest, truest, shade of Tory blue.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alex-massie-rishi-sunak-and-liz-truss-are-living-in-another-world-hn5mbl3pd

    As I said yesterday, the absence of decision-making at the moment is a growing scandal. Sure, the Tories have reasonably decided they need a new leader. It's their business and we should let them get on with it and let us know in due course who they've chosen - we shall listen with mild interest. But that doesn't mean that the entire country has to grind to a halt while they ponder the relative virtues of Truss and Sunak. Governments are supposed to govern regardless of the internal proccupations of political parties.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/zombie-government-more-than-half-of-departments-delay-key-decisions
    I’m sure Starmer will be on the airwaves every day next week, extolling the virtues of replacing this bunch of indecisives.

    Oh wait, he’s on holiday too!
    Nicola Sturgeon is at work. Hugging Shetland ponies. Liz’ll nick that one for sure.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/20606051.pictures-nicola-sturgeon-visits-glasgows-govanhill-international-festival/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,831

    Leon said:

    The Times wants us to feel sorry for the ISIS brides

    Grotesque. Build a courthouse in Kurdistan. Try them all and, if the locals decide, execute them all. The kids are more troubling but I’m finding it hard to be anything but *meh*

    “Is it time to bring home Britain’s Isis brides and their children?”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/65d2e6e0-0dae-11ed-a9bf-a27f3a730ce3?shareToken=8c1c576785f90bde7bf4c25863cf0297

    Christina Lamb is a superb journalist but has always been sentimentalist.

    I think any case for repatriation would have to be based on utter repentance and evidence they were groomed as children. Then, there would need to be an 18 month - 2 year programme of deradicalisation upon arrival too, and maybe regular social services/police check-ins for years. All of which would cost but might be the right to thing to do.

    Otherwise they made their bed.
    I think that evidence of repentance for adults and non-involvement for kids would do. But it does strike me as onbjectionable that we should prioritise them over the numerous other refugees to whom we continue to offer a hostile environment. If we collectively decide we can accommodate more refugees, why don't we start with, for example, taking more Syrians or Afghans with no record of involvement in politics at all?
    Agreed Nick. Why does the fact they grew up in a country they then repudiated and in a modest way betrayed give them any priority at all, no matter how sorry they claim to be?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Cheery stuff on the Sky News papers round up. Energy price cap now forecast at £4,700 in April by Auxillio, the energy consultancy.
  • Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Red meat to the loons. He was my choice ahead of Truss because he appeared sane and with at least a shaky grasp of reality. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that neither's fit for office.

    Until the Conservative and Unionist Party rediscover their beliefs (and purge Brexit) they shouldn't win

    so when they said we will have a “Festival of Brexit”, what they meant was a “Recession”
    https://twitter.com/kingstonwrites/status/1555847893118066688

    Brexit is a flop, and the voters know it. So why can’t Labour call for a closer bond with Europe? | Roy Hattersley https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/31/now-voters-know-we-cant-make-brexit-work-labour-must-call-for-closer-bond-with-europe
    I hope you liked the Radiohead observation in the thread header.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    I hope you liked the Radiohead observation in the thread header.

    My appreciation of all things Radiohead is unwavering...
  • Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Red meat to the loons. He was my choice ahead of Truss because he appeared sane and with at least a shaky grasp of reality. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that neither's fit for office.

    Until the Conservative and Unionist Party rediscover their beliefs (and purge Brexit) they shouldn't win

    so when they said we will have a “Festival of Brexit”, what they meant was a “Recession”
    https://twitter.com/kingstonwrites/status/1555847893118066688

    Brexit is a flop, and the voters know it. So why can’t Labour call for a closer bond with Europe? | Roy Hattersley https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/31/now-voters-know-we-cant-make-brexit-work-labour-must-call-for-closer-bond-with-europe
    On the "Festival of Brexit" thing they really do seem surprised that leaving the SM and CU to create red tape barriers have done the damage they have - despite their decades of preaching free trade and removing red tape barriers.

    So they wanted a big festival to celebrate all we had gained and instead find only how much we have lost. Which clearly isn't their fault for fucking things up, its my fault for supporting a version of Brexit which wasn't mental and now becoming a turncoat traitor for calling them out.
  • Good morning everybody.
    I thought part of the rise in national insurance costs was to assist with care costs. How does Ms Truss propose to deal with those?

    Tax cuts for private care home owners.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    Scott_xP said:

    You might think that the Conservative Party would have learnt that determined boosterism unbacked by actual ideas is the road to ruin. Boris Johnson’s premiership failed because style without substance is, in the end, always found out. Truss has more to her than Johnson did but she is still a Tigger in a time for Eeyore. You cannot boast or boost your way out of recession. Denial is a river whose waters are the deepest, truest, shade of Tory blue.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alex-massie-rishi-sunak-and-liz-truss-are-living-in-another-world-hn5mbl3pd

    As I said yesterday, the absence of decision-making at the moment is a growing scandal. Sure, the Tories have reasonably decided they need a new leader. It's their business and we should let them get on with it and let us know in due course who they've chosen - we shall listen with mild interest. But that doesn't mean that the entire country has to grind to a halt while they ponder the relative virtues of Truss and Sunak. Governments are supposed to govern regardless of the internal proccupations of political parties.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/zombie-government-more-than-half-of-departments-delay-key-decisions
    Get Brexit Done has become Get Nothing Done.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    I wonder where subjects like philosophy and theology fit in to this idea. And it's interesting that an exception needs to be made for nursing. https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1556023029762752514
  • DavidL said:

    The built in bias in questions like this just annoys me. Of course no one is going to unaffected by increasing energy costs like this but the vast majority will cope by rebalancing other spending and being a bit more careful when the heating is put on. They may even resort to jumpers.

    Sunak set a dangerous precedent in having the government effectively pay for the first round of these increases but this was (a) unrepeatable and (b) a one off leaving us fully exposed to the increases next year. The only way of avoiding that would be a reduction in the global energy prices which is possible but far from certain.

    Most peoples response to this will be to demand more wages resulting in another sprial of inflation and public sector strikes. So what does a Truss government do?

    I think that green levies and VAT on fuel do indeed have to go. We are making a very bad situation worse for ourselves. It is unnecessary. Their suspension will be another suspended fuel duty escalator if you can remember that. I think this will be prioritised over CT tax cuts.

    We absolutely need to get on with fracking and doing what we can to squeeze more gas out of the north sea.

    We do indeed need to get on with insulation, even more wind, solar and tidal. Not only do all these help with balance of payments, it also makes us much less vulnerable to international energy markets. They should be branded as making Britain secure and they will help.

    Sorry that millions sliding into a dire poverty you can barely comprehend annoys you. In a decent society it isn't only about the "vast majority", its how we treat those who fall below this middle band.

    Energy bills will be higher than wages and UC payments. Literally impossible to pay. And for millions of others who work the bills will take us such a proportion of money that they go way beyond "just put a jumper on".

    The challenge right now is to set aside the long term questions and focus on the micro - how to get people though this winter. It simply doesn't matter what the long term policy debates are, people are going to suffer grinding poverty in a few months unless this shitbox party you support does something.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,899
    edited August 2022
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    I like Sunak’s plans re boosting vocational learning and ramping technical colleges whilst cutting crap degrees.

    Not sure what the teachers think of these plans in the article but as a lay man they seem good to me.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/rishi-sunak-vows-to-end-low-earning-degrees-in-post-16-education-shake-up

    Maths at post 16 is bullshit for two very good reasons (1) there aren't enough teachers to teach it and (2) even if they did A-level maths is totally irrelevant to the job market of technical skills he's talking about, so it would require a new qualification. That takes five years to bring in.

    Moreover, he just doesn't appreciate how much some children really hate maths. Getting them to resit GCSE when they've failed it is hard enough. Force them to do it for no reason at all and he will literally be dangling from a lamp post.

    Giving charge of technical qualifications to the professional bodies is a much smarter idea, but will never happen unless you abolish OFQUAL and the DfE who will refuse to hand over control. Admittedly,if he did that it would be a tremendous boost to education.

    Universities, just ill-informed bullshit based on snobbery, bit like the sort of stuff we see round here too often.

    CPD for teachers, again, nonsense. The key thing is to keep them in the classroom not obsess about how shit they are,which they mostly aren't. In any case, it's going to be unattainable as his government is in the process of shutting the routes for teacher training which is the key source of CPD.

    Red meat to the loons. He was my choice ahead of Truss because he appeared sane and with at least a shaky grasp of reality. I'm
    rapidly coming to the conclusion that neither's fit for office.
    So I’ll put you down as a “maybe”?

    You can put me down as saying 'among the bullshit there's one interesting idea if it can be implemented but the rest is more useless and dangerous than Dominic Cummings.'

    Which to be fair is par for the course with politicians when it comes to education.
    But the article says Rishi "would also work to expand the use of artificial intelligence and digital technology in classrooms and to reduce teachers’ workloads."

    Expanded AI in classrooms has to be good, right? Whatever it is supposed to mean.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Sandpit said:
    But it says she has to repudiate the last 12 years of Government.

    I assume that includes the Brexit they campaigned so heavily for...
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited August 2022
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, I crossed 50,000 posts last night, in the eight and a half years since I returned to the site.

    Appropriately no. 50,000 was a pun on Ishmael and Hagar.

    Lazy b****** that I am, I am still 6.5k behind you. I think these numbers are from when we changed to Vanilla so you must have been back on by then.
    My feelings on this are mixed.

    Of course, 40 k or 50 k posts are a significant achievement & a source of pride.

    But, also, I genuinely wonder how such posters find the time.

    Also, I do find it curious that so many of the ultra-prolific posters are apparently lawyers.

    I mean, I know lawyers' time is valuable, because lawyers repeatedly tell me so, before telling me their rates :)
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Scott_xP said:

    I hope you liked the Radiohead observation in the thread header.

    My appreciation of all things Radiohead is unwavering...
    Creep.
This discussion has been closed.