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As voting starts Truss still the strong next PM favourite – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 7 in General
imageAs voting starts Truss still the strong next PM favourite – politicalbetting.com

The betting for next prime minister is still very much dominated by the YouGov polling of Tory members that came out nearly 2 weeks ago. This had Truss with a very clear lead of 19% and it is hard to see how Sunak can overhaul it

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 4,185
    edited August 1
    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,795

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Even Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown received honeymoons.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    9.6 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    10 Rishi Sunak 10%
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 4,185
    edited August 1

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Even Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown received honeymoons.
    Honeymoons for all!
    SKS still pwning Rishi 39 32 though so hes not utterly useless. Just mainly useless
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680
    Re the last line in OGH's header: Let’s hope that YouGov run other members’ polls to see if there is any change.

    Let's hope as well that other pollsters sample members' opinions, so we can guard against house effects in favour of one candidate or other. My own suspicion is that Yougov favours Liz Truss. With the recent 50 per cent rise in Conservative Party membership, I am not sure if panels recruited some time ago reflect the new members. On the other hand, it may be that new members vote in aggregate just like their longer standing peers.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Even Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown received honeymoons.
    Hard to keep up, psGB is Johnson, right?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,795
    IshmaelZ said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Even Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown received honeymoons.
    Hard to keep up, psGB is Johnson, right?
    Theresa May.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680
    Hustings tonight in the West Country. Any word? Is @MarqueeMark taking a night off moth-bothering to attend? Live coverage anywhere?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448

    IshmaelZ said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Even Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown received honeymoons.
    Hard to keep up, psGB is Johnson, right?
    Theresa May.
    Seems wrong, TB was toppled by dark forces, DC was toppled by DC.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448

    Hustings tonight in the West Country. Any word? Is @MarqueeMark taking a night off moth-bothering to attend? Live coverage anywhere?

    Exeter is the far East to me. Plus it's prolly members only.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448
    edited August 1
    WT

    F

    was I thinking not backing the draw last night? What could be more nailed on for England Germany at 90 minutes?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Even Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown received honeymoons.
    Hard to keep up, psGB is Johnson, right?
    Theresa May.
    Seems wrong, TB was toppled by dark forces, DC was toppled by DC.
    Theresa May and Gordon Brown were both introverts with a strong sense of public duty; daughter and son of the manse (as was Margaret Thatcher, more-or-less); both had bad hands thrust upon them (as of course did Boris) whereas Blair and Cameron (and Boris again) rather dropped themselves in it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Even Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown received honeymoons.
    Hard to keep up, psGB is Johnson, right?
    Theresa May.
    Seems wrong, TB was toppled by dark forces, DC was toppled by DC.
    Theresa May and Gordon Brown were both introverts with a strong sense of public duty; daughter and son of the manse (as was Margaret Thatcher, more-or-less); both had bad hands thrust upon them (as of course did Boris) whereas Blair and Cameron (and Boris again) rather dropped themselves in it.
    Talking of bad hands I think I am developing Dupuytren's disease. It seems to bring me even closer to the Blessed Margaret. Like stigmata.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,257

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    The Truss effect:

    image
    image
  • LeonLeon Posts: 24,250
    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 55,591
    #BREAKING @pritipatel expands the #HongKong scheme, and relaxes application conditions!!🚨🚨

    Fantastic news! Thank you so much @ukhomeoffice for listening!


    https://twitter.com/lukedepulford/status/1554126926750646272
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 17,549

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448
    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    r4 6 o clock news going big on this. Driest july since 1935 some parts driest for 200 years
  • LeonLeon Posts: 24,250
    edited August 1
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    r4 6 o clock news going big on this. Driest july since 1935 some parts driest for 200 years
    As I mentioned, I went to Hatfield House yesterday. And lovely it was

    But my god the parkland. Tinder dry. Parched as a Syrian semi desert. Tawny stalks rather than grass. This is the driest I can remember, in southeast England
  • Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    Starmer has defined himself as not-Johnson, with nothing else to say..

    Truss is not-Johnson with a plan to tackle CoL issues (whether you like it or not).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,432
    Leon said:

    #BREAKING @pritipatel expands the #HongKong scheme, and relaxes application conditions!!🚨🚨

    Fantastic news! Thank you so much @ukhomeoffice for listening!


    https://twitter.com/lukedepulford/status/1554126926750646272

    We should just let in all of Hong Kong. I can't imagine anything better for the UK economy
    Possibly a fiscally responsible government, but since there's not one of those around right now, I agree with the thrust of your sentiment.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 101,102

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    No PM in the last 50 years who has taken over midterm has not got a poll bounce.

    However sustaining that to win a general election majority is something only Major and Johnson achieved
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,044

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    Starmer has defined himself as not-Johnson, with nothing else to say..

    Truss is not-Johnson with a plan to tackle CoL issues (whether you like it or not).
    Careful. Truss is only playing to the membership gallery at present. Sir Keir also did that then had Owen Jones on his back for binning it all.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,938
    edited August 1
    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    We're often seeing 7pm as hottest not 3pm - which is odd. Could be the harbinger of something cataclysmic fairly soon. We'll get a warning hopefully.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,713
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    r4 6 o clock news going big on this. Driest july since 1935 some parts driest for 200 years
    As I mentioned, I went to Hatfield House yesterday. And lovely it was

    But my god the parkland. Tinder dry. Parched as a Syrian semi desert. Tawny stalks rather than grass. This is the driest I can remember, in southeast England
    Recently (since heatwave) been to Holland Park, Regent's Park, and Ilford's Valentine's Park - all tinder dry.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,808
    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    Met Office website August prediction is "very warm" for the South.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,520
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Even Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown received honeymoons.
    Hard to keep up, psGB is Johnson, right?
    Theresa May.
    Seems wrong, TB was toppled by dark forces, DC was toppled by DC.
    Theresa May and Gordon Brown were both introverts with a strong sense of public duty; daughter and son of the manse (as was Margaret Thatcher, more-or-less); both had bad hands thrust upon them (as of course did Boris) whereas Blair and Cameron (and Boris again) rather dropped themselves in it.
    Talking of bad hands I think I am developing Dupuytren's disease. It seems to bring me even closer to the Blessed Margaret. Like stigmata.
    Or the over use of alcohol.

    https://dupuytrens.org/alcohol-and-dupuytrens/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,938

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    He'd look a plonker outlining an alternative programme for government at this point. It'd be like turning up for a date 2 hours early and carrying a bunch of flowers. By the time she arrives you're stale and stiff and your bouquet is wilting. Work really cut out now. Why make a hard task harder?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 55,591
    EXC: Penny Mordaunt is about to endorse Liz Truss from the podium at the Exeter hustings. Stop Rishi bandwagon growing.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1554162780659392513
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,257
    kinabalu said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    He'd look a plonker outlining an alternative programme for government at this point. It'd be like turning up for a date 2 hours early and carrying a bunch of flowers. By the time she arrives you're stale and stiff and your bouquet is wilting. Work really cut out now. Why make a hard task harder?
    Blair c. 1995 had outlined a much clearer vision of what he wanted to do.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 101,102

    EXC: Penny Mordaunt is about to endorse Liz Truss from the podium at the Exeter hustings. Stop Rishi bandwagon growing.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1554162780659392513

    Also looking for a job I imagine
  • PantherDavePantherDave Posts: 53

    Hustings tonight in the West Country. Any word? Is @MarqueeMark taking a night off moth-bothering to attend? Live coverage anywhere?

    Youtube
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,520

    kinabalu said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    He'd look a plonker outlining an alternative programme for government at this point. It'd be like turning up for a date 2 hours early and carrying a bunch of flowers. By the time she arrives you're stale and stiff and your bouquet is wilting. Work really cut out now. Why make a hard task harder?
    Blair c. 1995 had outlined a much clearer vision of what he wanted to do.
    I was in the party then, and I am not sure he had. The pledge card was very tame.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,257

    EXC: Penny Mordaunt is about to endorse Liz Truss from the podium at the Exeter hustings. Stop Rishi bandwagon growing.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1554162780659392513

    Truss will probably overtake Sunak in public endorsements from MPs before the end of the members' vote.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,379
    edited August 1
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    Met Office website August prediction is "very warm" for the South.
    Fun for Mrs Flatlander doing some grassland surveys the other day. Difficulty level: Max. At least they hadn't actually caught fire (yet).

    I am told one of the local fires during the 40C event was due to a pole transformer. It overheated and sparks set the nearby hedge alight. 3 fields went up before it was eventually stopped, not far from some houses.

    This isn't supposed to be like Australia! Our infrastructure just can't cope.


    Expecting some rain here tonight although it looks like it will fail to reach the South East.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,829
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    He'd look a plonker outlining an alternative programme for government at this point. It'd be like turning up for a date 2 hours early and carrying a bunch of flowers. By the time she arrives you're stale and stiff and your bouquet is wilting. Work really cut out now. Why make a hard task harder?
    Blair c. 1995 had outlined a much clearer vision of what he wanted to do.
    I was in the party then, and I am not sure he had. The pledge card was very tame.
    If I recall correctly Blair was all about not scaring the horses.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680
    edited August 1

    Hustings tonight in the West Country. Any word? Is @MarqueeMark taking a night off moth-bothering to attend? Live coverage anywhere?

    Youtube
    Thanks. Guardian Youtube stream of tonight's hustings is at
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OPe6qzlzLg
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,938
    edited August 1

    kinabalu said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    He'd look a plonker outlining an alternative programme for government at this point. It'd be like turning up for a date 2 hours early and carrying a bunch of flowers. By the time she arrives you're stale and stiff and your bouquet is wilting. Work really cut out now. Why make a hard task harder?
    Blair c. 1995 had outlined a much clearer vision of what he wanted to do.
    Load of high octane waffle then eventually his prosaic little pledge card is what I remember.

    Corbyn otoh, he did go for that detailed blitz of alternatives. And then there was John Smith with his Shadow Budget of course. Lost and lost.

    No - live and learn. Starmer is nailing it and you tory boys can stop your tedious moaning about him.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    r4 6 o clock news going big on this. Driest july since 1935 some parts driest for 200 years
    As I mentioned, I went to Hatfield House yesterday. And lovely it was

    But my god the parkland. Tinder dry. Parched as a Syrian semi desert. Tawny stalks rather than grass. This is the driest I can remember, in southeast England
    yeah, my steam train trip the other day got replaced by diesel as there was a severe fire hazard.

    BOOOO
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,808

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    Met Office website August prediction is "very warm" for the South.
    Fun for Mrs Flatlander doing some grassland surveys the other day. Difficulty level: Max. At least they hadn't actually caught fire (yet).

    I am told one of the local fires during the 40C event was due to a pole transformer. It overheated and sparks set the nearby hedge alight. 3 fields went up before it was eventually stopped, not far from some houses.

    This isn't supposed to be like Australia! Our infrastructure just can't cope.


    Expecting some rain here tonight although it looks like it will fail to reach the South East.
    Drier than average August predicted too. Most rain in the form of thunderstorms. Which isn't great.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,438
    Penny!

    Interesting. So are we envisaging TT as ForSec, Wallace as DefSec, Penny as HomeSec and Clarke as Chancellor? What gig does Rishi get offered? Health? Given how much he’s banged on about pharmacists?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 101,102
    edited August 1
    moonshine said:

    Penny!

    Interesting. So are we envisaging TT as ForSec, Wallace as DefSec, Penny as HomeSec and Clarke as Chancellor? What gig does Rishi get offered? Health? Given how much he’s banged on about pharmacists?

    Rishi likely leaves Parliament and returns to the private sector. Kwarteng likely Chancellor, Clarke Chief Sec, otherwise as above
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,257
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    He'd look a plonker outlining an alternative programme for government at this point. It'd be like turning up for a date 2 hours early and carrying a bunch of flowers. By the time she arrives you're stale and stiff and your bouquet is wilting. Work really cut out now. Why make a hard task harder?
    Blair c. 1995 had outlined a much clearer vision of what he wanted to do.
    Load of high octane waffle then eventually his prosaic little pledge card is what I remember.

    Corbyn otoh, he did go for that detailed blitz of alternatives. And then there was John Smith with his Shadow Budget of course. Lost and lost.

    No - live and learn. Starmer is nailing it and you tory boys can stop your tedious moaning about him.
    I'll give Starmer credit for being called a liar by his own side much faster than Blair managed it.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,438
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    Met Office website August prediction is "very warm" for the South.
    Fun for Mrs Flatlander doing some grassland surveys the other day. Difficulty level: Max. At least they hadn't actually caught fire (yet).

    I am told one of the local fires during the 40C event was due to a pole transformer. It overheated and sparks set the nearby hedge alight. 3 fields went up before it was eventually stopped, not far from some houses.

    This isn't supposed to be like Australia! Our infrastructure just can't cope.


    Expecting some rain here tonight although it looks like it will fail to reach the South East.
    Drier than average August predicted too. Most rain in the form of thunderstorms. Which isn't great.
    Hose pipe bans… is it really the case that there’s basically no enforcement of these? So if you don’t take the piss in front of your neighbours you can can away with giving a splash to particularly vulnerable plants?

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,438
    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    Penny!

    Interesting. So are we envisaging TT as ForSec, Wallace as DefSec, Penny as HomeSec and Clarke as Chancellor? What gig does Rishi get offered? Health? Given how much he’s banged on about pharmacists?

    Rishi likely leaves Parliament and returns to the private sector. Kwarteng likely Chancellor, Clarke Chief Sec, otherwise as above
    Don’t know much about Kwasi. Is he any good?

    What role does Truss find for Kemi? A Cabinet job surely?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    9.6 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    10 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Just before the start of hustings:-

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.12 Liz Truss 89%
    9.6 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    10 Rishi Sunak 10%
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 101,102
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    Penny!

    Interesting. So are we envisaging TT as ForSec, Wallace as DefSec, Penny as HomeSec and Clarke as Chancellor? What gig does Rishi get offered? Health? Given how much he’s banged on about pharmacists?

    Rishi likely leaves Parliament and returns to the private sector. Kwarteng likely Chancellor, Clarke Chief Sec, otherwise as above
    Don’t know much about Kwasi. Is he any good?

    What role does Truss find for Kemi? A Cabinet job surely?
    Party chairman, Redwood and Rees Mogg also to get roles
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,848
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    He'd look a plonker outlining an alternative programme for government at this point. It'd be like turning up for a date 2 hours early and carrying a bunch of flowers. By the time she arrives you're stale and stiff and your bouquet is wilting. Work really cut out now. Why make a hard task harder?
    Blair c. 1995 had outlined a much clearer vision of what he wanted to do.
    I was in the party then, and I am not sure he had. The pledge card was very tame.
    Me too. There was little given away for fear of Conservative Press (which by the end was just the Telegraph) criticism of uncosted financial pledges.

    Let's face it New Labour were so economically timid they stuck to Clarke's economic plan for term one.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,044
    edited August 1
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    Penny!

    Interesting. So are we envisaging TT as ForSec, Wallace as DefSec, Penny as HomeSec and Clarke as Chancellor? What gig does Rishi get offered? Health? Given how much he’s banged on about pharmacists?

    Rishi likely leaves Parliament and returns to the private sector. Kwarteng likely Chancellor, Clarke Chief Sec, otherwise as above
    Don’t know much about Kwasi. Is he any good?

    What role does Truss find for Kemi? A Cabinet job surely?
    If Dan Hodges is to be believed then Kemi will lead the Tories next, so Liz might not want to promote her own Brutus.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Even Brown and the pound shop Gordon Brown received honeymoons.
    Hard to keep up, psGB is Johnson, right?
    Theresa May.
    Seems wrong, TB was toppled by dark forces, DC was toppled by DC.
    Theresa May and Gordon Brown were both introverts with a strong sense of public duty; daughter and son of the manse (as was Margaret Thatcher, more-or-less); both had bad hands thrust upon them (as of course did Boris) whereas Blair and Cameron (and Boris again) rather dropped themselves in it.
    Talking of bad hands I think I am developing Dupuytren's disease. It seems to bring me even closer to the Blessed Margaret. Like stigmata.
    Or the over use of alcohol.

    https://dupuytrens.org/alcohol-and-dupuytrens/
    Never had any confidence in online diagnoses. Also, my liver function is doubleplusgood, as per recent bood tests,and it says in that case I am in the clear.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680

    EXC: Penny Mordaunt is about to endorse Liz Truss from the podium at the Exeter hustings. Stop Rishi bandwagon growing.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1554162780659392513

    Penny Mordaunt just has endorsed Liz Truss from the podium before Truss & Sunak reach the stage.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,438

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    Penny!

    Interesting. So are we envisaging TT as ForSec, Wallace as DefSec, Penny as HomeSec and Clarke as Chancellor? What gig does Rishi get offered? Health? Given how much he’s banged on about pharmacists?

    Rishi likely leaves Parliament and returns to the private sector. Kwarteng likely Chancellor, Clarke Chief Sec, otherwise as above
    Don’t know much about Kwasi. Is he any good?

    What role does Truss find for Kemi? A Cabinet job surely?
    If Dan Hodges is to be believed then Kemi will lead the Tories next, so Liz might not want to promote her own Brutus.
    Great managers have the self confidence to promote excellent people. Boris Johnson’s undoing was letting his insecurities shine through and appointing mediocrity into Cabinet.

    If Truss is any good (and that’s a big if), she’ll have observed this from within Cabinet and will do things differently.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,938
    HYUFD said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    No PM in the last 50 years who has taken over midterm has not got a poll bounce.

    However sustaining that to win a general election majority is something only Major and Johnson achieved
    Yep. Eg Brown got a massive one when he took over and sorted out the floods and the cows - but look what ensued at the GE. He lost.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,829
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    Met Office website August prediction is "very warm" for the South.
    Fun for Mrs Flatlander doing some grassland surveys the other day. Difficulty level: Max. At least they hadn't actually caught fire (yet).

    I am told one of the local fires during the 40C event was due to a pole transformer. It overheated and sparks set the nearby hedge alight. 3 fields went up before it was eventually stopped, not far from some houses.

    This isn't supposed to be like Australia! Our infrastructure just can't cope.


    Expecting some rain here tonight although it looks like it will fail to reach the South East.
    Drier than average August predicted too. Most rain in the form of thunderstorms. Which isn't great.
    Caveat with the usual - longer term forecasts are guides only and can change quite quickly. Not much sign of that yet.
    However the drought will break at some point, it always does. Probably during the August BH when I’m in Devon...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,257
    Exeter hustings stream:

    https://youtu.be/5OPe6qzlzLg
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,691

    EXC: Penny Mordaunt is about to endorse Liz Truss from the podium at the Exeter hustings. Stop Rishi bandwagon growing.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1554162780659392513

    Truss will probably overtake Sunak in public endorsements from MPs before the end of the members' vote.
    Where is this Rishi bandwagon of which he writes?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 24,250
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    We're often seeing 7pm as hottest not 3pm - which is odd. Could be the harbinger of something cataclysmic fairly soon. We'll get a warning hopefully.
    This climatologist from UCL thinks it is too late already. Catastrophic climate change is in the post

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/30/total-climate-meltdown-inevitable-heatwaves-global-catastrophe

    Perhaps this is the year we will see the first signs of truly irreversible warming
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,938

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    Penny!

    Interesting. So are we envisaging TT as ForSec, Wallace as DefSec, Penny as HomeSec and Clarke as Chancellor? What gig does Rishi get offered? Health? Given how much he’s banged on about pharmacists?

    Rishi likely leaves Parliament and returns to the private sector. Kwarteng likely Chancellor, Clarke Chief Sec, otherwise as above
    Don’t know much about Kwasi. Is he any good?

    What role does Truss find for Kemi? A Cabinet job surely?
    If Dan Hodges is to be believed then Kemi will lead the Tories next, so Liz might not want to promote her own Brutus.
    That's quite an opening 7 words there ... and an "if" that can be seen from space.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,379
    edited August 1
    moonshine said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    Met Office website August prediction is "very warm" for the South.
    Fun for Mrs Flatlander doing some grassland surveys the other day. Difficulty level: Max. At least they hadn't actually caught fire (yet).

    I am told one of the local fires during the 40C event was due to a pole transformer. It overheated and sparks set the nearby hedge alight. 3 fields went up before it was eventually stopped, not far from some houses.

    This isn't supposed to be like Australia! Our infrastructure just can't cope.


    Expecting some rain here tonight although it looks like it will fail to reach the South East.
    Drier than average August predicted too. Most rain in the form of thunderstorms. Which isn't great.
    Hose pipe bans… is it really the case that there’s basically no enforcement of these? So if you don’t take the piss in front of your neighbours you can can away with giving a splash to particularly vulnerable plants?

    Without smart water meters I don't see how they could enforce it other than by nosy neighbour syndrome.

    If everyone takes the piss, however, standpipes await...


    We are nowhere near that yet.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,725

    EXC: Penny Mordaunt is about to endorse Liz Truss from the podium at the Exeter hustings. Stop Rishi bandwagon growing.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1554162780659392513

    Penny Mordaunt just has endorsed Liz Truss from the podium before Truss & Sunak reach the stage.
    I have carefully considered the merits of both candidates and having checked the latest BF price am wholeheartedly backing the near certainty.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,691
    Is Truss is once again slagging off her comprehensive in Leeds.

    Her recollection is not the same as the Leeds Tory councillor who attended at the same time.

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,438
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    We're often seeing 7pm as hottest not 3pm - which is odd. Could be the harbinger of something cataclysmic fairly soon. We'll get a warning hopefully.
    This climatologist from UCL thinks it is too late already. Catastrophic climate change is in the post

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/30/total-climate-meltdown-inevitable-heatwaves-global-catastrophe

    Perhaps this is the year we will see the first signs of truly irreversible warming
    We can’t be too many years away from Elon announcing a geoengineering division at Tesla.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,146

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    LTICIPM
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    We're often seeing 7pm as hottest not 3pm - which is odd. Could be the harbinger of something cataclysmic fairly soon. We'll get a warning hopefully.
    This climatologist from UCL thinks it is too late already. Catastrophic climate change is in the post

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/30/total-climate-meltdown-inevitable-heatwaves-global-catastrophe

    Perhaps this is the year we will see the first signs of truly irreversible warming
    We can’t be too many years away from Elon announcing a geoengineering division at Tesla.
    The Boring Company shirley
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,691

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    LTICIPM
    As I posted last night, I think we are seeing straws in the wind of a Lab leadership challenge next summer. Starmer isn't moving fast enough to look like government-in-waiting.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,477
    https://asunnot.oikotie.fi/myytavat-asunnot/humppila/16901009

    This is a 78 sqm apartment in Humpila, Finland, for sale for 31,000 Euros. The estate agent has to be honest in the listing and list out any defects. But there are no defects listed. The bathroom was rebuilt in 2010. The apartment complex has a sauna and this is currently being renovated, along with the carports, so the place is being actively managed (the 220 euro/month fee would normally include water, heating etc). Humppila is out in the countryside but equidistant between the three largest cities in Finland (Helsinki, Tampere and Turku), no more than a couple of hours away from each, and has its own railway station etc.

    This is not unusual for rural Finland.



  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448
    Fuck off Liz, we don't want no broadband

    and if you think giving local people here control of planning, is going to generate more housing for aspirant persons...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,691
    Sheep not solar panels says Truss.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 24,250
    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 1,749

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    Starmer has defined himself as not-Johnson, with nothing else to say..

    Truss is not-Johnson with a plan to tackle CoL issues (whether you like it or not).
    She may have a plan, but is it a credible plan?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,379
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    We're often seeing 7pm as hottest not 3pm - which is odd. Could be the harbinger of something cataclysmic fairly soon. We'll get a warning hopefully.
    This climatologist from UCL thinks it is too late already. Catastrophic climate change is in the post

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/30/total-climate-meltdown-inevitable-heatwaves-global-catastrophe

    Perhaps this is the year we will see the first signs of truly irreversible warming
    We can’t be too many years away from Elon announcing a geoengineering division at Tesla.

    Wait until his solar powered carbon-fixer has a runaway and removes all the CO2 from the atmosphere.

    You can see some of the rocks from the last such catastrophe on Islay.
    https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/GeositesIslay
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,248

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    This is all about who has been in the news and Starmer isn't getting a look in.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,848
    edited August 1
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    No PM in the last 50 years who has taken over midterm has not got a poll bounce.

    However sustaining that to win a general election majority is something only Major and Johnson achieved
    Yep. Eg Brown got a massive one when he took over and sorted out the floods and the cows - but look what ensued at the GE. He lost.
    I'm not sure he would have won the election that wasn't.

    All the Tories in Parliament and on here are falling in behind Truss. It strikes me as only those who want to see her appeal can see her appeal. She strikes me as an Emperor's New Clothes sort of a Prime Minister.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,440

    moonshine said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    Met Office website August prediction is "very warm" for the South.
    Fun for Mrs Flatlander doing some grassland surveys the other day. Difficulty level: Max. At least they hadn't actually caught fire (yet).

    I am told one of the local fires during the 40C event was due to a pole transformer. It overheated and sparks set the nearby hedge alight. 3 fields went up before it was eventually stopped, not far from some houses.

    This isn't supposed to be like Australia! Our infrastructure just can't cope.


    Expecting some rain here tonight although it looks like it will fail to reach the South East.
    Drier than average August predicted too. Most rain in the form of thunderstorms. Which isn't great.
    Hose pipe bans… is it really the case that there’s basically no enforcement of these? So if you don’t take the piss in front of your neighbours you can can away with giving a splash to particularly vulnerable plants?

    Without smart water meters I don't see how they could enforce it other than by nosy neighbour syndrome.

    If everyone takes the piss, however, standpipes await...


    We are nowhere near that yet.
    At the moment we are still in the attention-seeking hysterical journalist phase.

    I need to get on and powerwash my solar panels before anything happens.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,691
    darkage said:

    https://asunnot.oikotie.fi/myytavat-asunnot/humppila/16901009

    This is a 78 sqm apartment in Humpila, Finland, for sale for 31,000 Euros. The estate agent has to be honest in the listing and list out any defects. But there are no defects listed. The bathroom was rebuilt in 2010. The apartment complex has a sauna and this is currently being renovated, along with the carports, so the place is being actively managed (the 220 euro/month fee would normally include water, heating etc). Humppila is out in the countryside but equidistant between the three largest cities in Finland (Helsinki, Tampere and Turku), no more than a couple of hours away from each, and has its own railway station etc.

    This is not unusual for rural Finland.



    Gotta have a working sauna in Suomi!!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,938

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    Starmer has failed to outline an alternative programme for Government, deliberately. This is what you get.
    He'd look a plonker outlining an alternative programme for government at this point. It'd be like turning up for a date 2 hours early and carrying a bunch of flowers. By the time she arrives you're stale and stiff and your bouquet is wilting. Work really cut out now. Why make a hard task harder?
    Blair c. 1995 had outlined a much clearer vision of what he wanted to do.
    Load of high octane waffle then eventually his prosaic little pledge card is what I remember.

    Corbyn otoh, he did go for that detailed blitz of alternatives. And then there was John Smith with his Shadow Budget of course. Lost and lost.

    No - live and learn. Starmer is nailing it and you tory boys can stop your tedious moaning about him.
    I'll give Starmer credit for being called a liar by his own side much faster than Blair managed it.
    He's cool with the aggro from the left. It's a feature for him not a bug. Doesn't appeal to me, truth be told, I would like more leftism, and I also totally get the "dull technocrat" etc criticisms - but the guy is playing things very well as regards being PM after the next GE, this has become clear to me, and I'm not moved from this conclusion by people bound to vote Con opining otherwise.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680
    Liz will channel the spirit of the Lionesses. Cue a series of tweets from lady footballers backing Labour, the LibDems or Rishi Sunak.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448
    darkage said:

    https://asunnot.oikotie.fi/myytavat-asunnot/humppila/16901009

    This is a 78 sqm apartment in Humpila, Finland, for sale for 31,000 Euros. The estate agent has to be honest in the listing and list out any defects. But there are no defects listed. The bathroom was rebuilt in 2010. The apartment complex has a sauna and this is currently being renovated, along with the carports, so the place is being actively managed (the 220 euro/month fee would normally include water, heating etc). Humppila is out in the countryside but equidistant between the three largest cities in Finland (Helsinki, Tampere and Turku), no more than a couple of hours away from each, and has its own railway station etc.

    This is not unusual for rural Finland.

    Strangely tempting. Do they have fox hunting there?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,848

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    This is all about who has been in the news and Starmer isn't getting a look in.
    I think that is correct. Nonetheless Sunak has also been in the news and his reputation is in free fall.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    9.6 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    10 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Just before the start of hustings:-

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.12 Liz Truss 89%
    9.6 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    10 Rishi Sunak 10%
    After Liz Truss's speech and before Rishi:-

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    10.5 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    10.5 Rishi Sunak 10%
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 101,102
    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    Air conditioning and swimming pools
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680
    moonshine said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Going unremarked this summer, amidst the drought and the heatwaves and the greyness, is the CONSISTENCY of the heat in London

    It is 27C at 6pm in Camden, on the turbulent Primrose Hill frontier

    That is quite unusual, yet it is happening day after day

    Nor am I imagining it. July's CET (Central England Temp) is 2.2C above normal, and I am pretty sure London is hotter than that. Netweather claims London is 3C over the average for July

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html

    Met Office website August prediction is "very warm" for the South.
    Fun for Mrs Flatlander doing some grassland surveys the other day. Difficulty level: Max. At least they hadn't actually caught fire (yet).

    I am told one of the local fires during the 40C event was due to a pole transformer. It overheated and sparks set the nearby hedge alight. 3 fields went up before it was eventually stopped, not far from some houses.

    This isn't supposed to be like Australia! Our infrastructure just can't cope.


    Expecting some rain here tonight although it looks like it will fail to reach the South East.
    Drier than average August predicted too. Most rain in the form of thunderstorms. Which isn't great.
    Hose pipe bans… is it really the case that there’s basically no enforcement of these? So if you don’t take the piss in front of your neighbours you can can away with giving a splash to particularly vulnerable plants?

    Use grey water. The plants won't mind you've washed your ugly mug in it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,808
    edited August 1
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    Air conditioning and swimming pools
    The hot broth de nos jours?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,691
    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    The same article pointed out that the massive difference between the two was that Kuwait had air con everywhere. So I guess the middle east remains habitable if they generate enough power for everyone to have air con?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,829
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    Air conditioning and swimming pools
    The hot broth de nos jours?
    Did the hot broth studies ever get published? Surely at least as effective as Ivermectin?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 24,250
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    Air conditioning and swimming pools
    No, people will move

    To Canada and Siberia, and Lancashire
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448
    Creepy as fuck from Rishi, that my own size gag bombed worse than the suntan one
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,896

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    This is all about who has been in the news and Starmer isn't getting a look in.
    It's also about having no bottle. If he struggles to answer this equivocally what can he answer? He's using more disclaimers than a Barclays ad!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-61208118
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,680
    Rishi needs to stop talking about his family because everyone knows his background. Get down to specifics like what Liz did.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 24,250

    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    The same article pointed out that the massive difference between the two was that Kuwait had air con everywhere. So I guess the middle east remains habitable if they generate enough power for everyone to have air con?
    But who wants to spend their entire life breathing in fake, filtered air? Indoors?

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,848
    Roger said:

    Truss leads Starmer for the first time.

    First time since March that a Conservative leads Starmer.

    At this moment, which of the following individuals do voters think would be the better PM for the United Kingdom? (31 July)

    Truss 37% (+4)
    Starmer 36% (+2)

    Changes +/- 27 July https://t.co/jqaoCc6XPk

    Truss's ratings rise has been very swift and steep. Suggests a big bounce and a big collapse possible or indeed probable.
    In the meantime, lol @ SKS

    This is all about who has been in the news and Starmer isn't getting a look in.
    It's also about having no bottle. If he struggles to answer this equivocally what can he answer? He's using more disclaimers than a Barclays ad!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-61208118
    Are you on board with Truss now Roger? Lots of hostility towards Starmer on show.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,368
    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    The fertile crescent has seen better and more fertile days.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,448
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    Air conditioning and swimming pools
    La brioche
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,440
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    Penny!

    Interesting. So are we envisaging TT as ForSec, Wallace as DefSec, Penny as HomeSec and Clarke as Chancellor? What gig does Rishi get offered? Health? Given how much he’s banged on about pharmacists?

    Rishi likely leaves Parliament and returns to the private sector. Kwarteng likely Chancellor, Clarke Chief Sec, otherwise as above
    Don’t know much about Kwasi. Is he any good?

    What role does Truss find for Kemi? A Cabinet job surely?
    As Business Minister Kwasi has been strangely inconsistent imo.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,209
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    Air conditioning and swimming pools
    Its less than 12,000 years ago that Britain was mostly covered in glaciers. In the 1970s the experts thought the ice age might be on the way back.

    France may turn into Lapland, they said on the telly.

    Hmmn.

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,477
    IshmaelZ said:

    darkage said:

    https://asunnot.oikotie.fi/myytavat-asunnot/humppila/16901009

    This is a 78 sqm apartment in Humpila, Finland, for sale for 31,000 Euros. The estate agent has to be honest in the listing and list out any defects. But there are no defects listed. The bathroom was rebuilt in 2010. The apartment complex has a sauna and this is currently being renovated, along with the carports, so the place is being actively managed (the 220 euro/month fee would normally include water, heating etc). Humppila is out in the countryside but equidistant between the three largest cities in Finland (Helsinki, Tampere and Turku), no more than a couple of hours away from each, and has its own railway station etc.

    This is not unusual for rural Finland.

    Strangely tempting. Do they have fox hunting there?
    There's certainly lots of guns.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,477
    Is it technically feasible to do solar powered air conditioning in these extremely hot places (like Iraq?)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,691
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    One of the most disturbing articles about climate change in recent years was in the Times only the other day. Describing daily life in Iraq and Kuwait

    Unfortunately, it is paywall, but it is powerful

    "Outside, in Basra and Kuwait, the heat is everywhere, like soup in your mouth or stinging fire in your throat — depending on the humidity. At its worst, you hold your tongue to the back of your front teeth because it hurts to breathe in the air directly. Your eyes prickle, their surfaces drying.

    "It didn’t used to be like this. This part of southern Mesopotamia, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow into the Persian Gulf, was once so fertile that scholars have suggested it could have been the location of the biblical Garden of Eden."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-a-burning-sun-kuwait-keeps-cool-as-iraq-reaches-boiling-point-bnjmqlgrh


    I don't see how the Middle East can remain habitable

    The same article pointed out that the massive difference between the two was that Kuwait had air con everywhere. So I guess the middle east remains habitable if they generate enough power for everyone to have air con?
    But who wants to spend their entire life breathing in fake, filtered air? Indoors?

    Not me. I love England and its seasons.

    I guess @Sandpit can tell us more about the reality in the deserts.
This discussion has been closed.