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Beth Mead for SPOTY? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 7 in General
imageBeth Mead for SPOTY? – politicalbetting.com

I have a very long record of a failing ever to bet on the winner of the BBC Sports Personality of the Year so please take my advice here with great caution.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.1 Liz Truss 91%
    11 Rishi Sunak 9%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.1 Liz Truss 91%
    11 Rishi Sunak 9%
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682
    On-topic, did you not put up Emma Raducanu at similarly short odds last year?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682

    On-topic, did you not put up Emma Raducanu at similarly short odds last year?

    Here we go (thanks to Google and not Vanilla's search function; it would be embarrassing if the latter were powered by Google!):-

    BET ON RADUCANU FOR SPOTY BEFORE TONIGHT’S FINAL
    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/09/11/bet-on-raducanu-for-spoty-before-tonights-final/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,040
    Or earps?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682
    IanB2 said:

    Or earps?

    Or Russo? That is one danger: the BBC might shortlist the wrong player, although the case for Mead herself is pretty clear:-

    Euro 2022: England's Beth Mead named tournament's best player after winning Golden Boot
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62371060
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,778
    They will certainly get team of the year and rightly so. I think that it was such a team performance, not just in the final but throughout, that it will be almost inviidious for 1 to be given personal recognition but in a weak year where no one from the Commonwealth Games has yet fired the imagination its possible.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,539
    Warm porridge hot tea
    waking up the sleeping day
    for anything at all
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    DavidL said:

    They will certainly get team of the year and rightly so. I think that it was such a team performance, not just in the final but throughout, that it will be almost inviidious for 1 to be given personal recognition but in a weak year where no one from the Commonwealth Games has yet fired the imagination its possible.

    Just Olympic and world 800m silver medallist Keely Hodgkinson hanging out with Ella Toone, who just won the Euros with England 🔥

    History makers both then and now. https://twitter.com/AthleticsWeekly/status/1553815562370826240/photo/1
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 648
    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    They will certainly get team of the year and rightly so. I think that it was such a team performance, not just in the final but throughout, that it will be almost inviidious for 1 to be given personal recognition but in a weak year where no one from the Commonwealth Games has yet fired the imagination its possible.

    Just Olympic and world 800m silver medallist Keely Hodgkinson hanging out with Ella Toone, who just won the Euros with England 🔥

    History makers both then and now. https://twitter.com/AthleticsWeekly/status/1553815562370826240/photo/1
    If there is ac oach/manager of the year should be Sarina Wiegman from the Netherlands.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,902
    It will almost certainly not matter, but it’s worth remembering that the men’s World Cup is happening November into early December. If, bizarrely, England win that, then the chances are one of the team wins SPOTY and the team itself definitely wins team of the year. But it’s a long shot!
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,350
    If Jonny Bairstow carries on scoring like he has been, he could be a contender. We've got a Test series v SA, the T20 World Cup and an ODI series v Aus before SPOTY
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682

    I've found betting on SPOTY to be a surefire way to lose money.

    It can be hard to distinguish the athlete you think is most deserving, from who is most likely to be shortlisted by the BBC's sometimes eccentric panel and then win the public vote. In that way it is similar to other awards and reality tv betting.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,778

    On the article below the headline.. this winds me up.

    I don't want the basic rate cut to 16%. I want the new NI levy reversed (before it becomes a trojan horse) and for the 20p/40p bands to go up in line with inflation each year, just as they used to.

    If there's spare revenue, use it for that please.

    The differential between the taxes on earned money and unearned money are already at absurd levels. Steps that equalise the tax payable so that everyone pays a fairer share are essential. This proposal, which will, of course, never see the light of day, shows that Sunak is still not getting that.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682

    It will almost certainly not matter, but it’s worth remembering that the men’s World Cup is happening November into early December. If, bizarrely, England win that, then the chances are one of the team wins SPOTY and the team itself definitely wins team of the year. But it’s a long shot!

    There is also the Covid-delayed Rugby League World Cup 2021 hosted in England this October. A home win there might take team of the year, since there is virtually no chance of any other award for a sport barely acknowledged in most of the country.
    https://rlwc2021.com/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 71,279

    It will almost certainly not matter, but it’s worth remembering that the men’s World Cup is happening November into early December. If, bizarrely, England win that, then the chances are one of the team wins SPOTY and the team itself definitely wins team of the year. But it’s a long shot!

    It's on right after the final
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,146
    DavidL said:

    On the article below the headline.. this winds me up.

    I don't want the basic rate cut to 16%. I want the new NI levy reversed (before it becomes a trojan horse) and for the 20p/40p bands to go up in line with inflation each year, just as they used to.

    If there's spare revenue, use it for that please.

    The differential between the taxes on earned money and unearned money are already at absurd levels. Steps that equalise the tax payable so that everyone pays a fairer share are essential. This proposal, which will, of course, never see the light of day, shows that Sunak is still not getting that.
    The biggest problem with Sunak is his, almost non-existent, political instincts.

    He seems to have absolutely no ability to think see round corners.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,466
    Don’t forget that the men’s World Cup is at the end of the year so not sure when SPOTY is as if (ok haha) they won or got to the final it would probably relegate the womens’ achievement not only due to the standing of the World Cup but also recency.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,146
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On the article below the headline.. this winds me up.

    I don't want the basic rate cut to 16%. I want the new NI levy reversed (before it becomes a trojan horse) and for the 20p/40p bands to go up in line with inflation each year, just as they used to.

    If there's spare revenue, use it for that please.

    The differential between the taxes on earned money and unearned money are already at absurd levels. Steps that equalise the tax payable so that everyone pays a fairer share are essential. This proposal, which will, of course, never see the light of day, shows that Sunak is still not getting that.
    The biggest problem with Sunak is his, almost non-existent, political instincts.

    He seems to have absolutely no ability to think see round corners.
    I think that he knows full well that increasing NI and reducing IT favours the retired once again. It is frankly bizarre that by far the largest users of the NHS are not expected to contribute it. The policy favours the selected group who are the Tories' most solid supporters but it is simply wrong, bordering on immoral.
    And, if that is the case, he has nothing new to offer.

    I want a Conservative PM who's going to lead for the country, not continue to feather the nest of its clientele.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,709
    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,402
    I’ve layed Mead. She might have won the golden boot, but no one is talking about her, and she won’t have the backing of Liverpool or Man Utd fans.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,709
    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,085

    IanB2 said:

    Or earps?

    Or Russo? That is one danger: the BBC might shortlist the wrong player, although the case for Mead herself is pretty clear:-

    Euro 2022: England's Beth Mead named tournament's best player after winning Golden Boot
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62371060
    As someone, like many, who only watched the final, and not the other games, Beth Mead didn't particularly stand out. But maybe it's people who watch more sport who are more likely to vote?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    Thoughts and prayers with Leon this morning as Women's football dominates the headlines...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Ironically, Rishi joining the Dutch auction on income tax rates distracts from his record of various payments aimed at mitigating high gas and electricity bills.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,521
    Karma:

    Germany captain Alexandra Popp has said that the injury that forced to miss the Euro 2022 final was picked up while practicing penalties.

    https://t.co/LcTr9GDusY
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,145
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Mercedes are only 30 points off Ferrari. That's ridiculous.

    Red Bull must be laughing their heads off.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,085

    It will almost certainly not matter, but it’s worth remembering that the men’s World Cup is happening November into early December. If, bizarrely, England win that, then the chances are one of the team wins SPOTY and the team itself definitely wins team of the year. But it’s a long shot!

    I think the World Cup final and SPOTY are both on the 18th December. If England win not sure many people will be paying attention to SPOTY. Something weird, like a cyclist winning, could happen.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682
    Scott_xP said:

    Thoughts and prayers with Leon this morning as Women's football dominates the headlines...

    The lionesses lead every newspaper front page including the Financial Times.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-62373153
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,040
    Amazing how all it took was a Tory leadership election for the economic outlook to suddenly turn rosy?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,040

    On the article below the headline.. this winds me up.

    I don't want the basic rate cut to 16%. I want the new NI levy reversed (before it becomes a trojan horse) and for the 20p/40p bands to go up in line with inflation each year, just as they used to.

    If there's spare revenue, use it for that please.

    But the Tories' secret plan is zero Income Tax and 35% National Insurance.

    Pensioners will love it! :)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,521
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Corporation tax cuts aren't going to be keeping anyone warm this winter.

    The scale of the food and fossil fuel bills, as well as interest rises do not make for easy solutions.

    It may be that Labour is just keeping its powder dry, but I cannot but wonder if they have any powder at all.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,085

    DavidL said:

    On the article below the headline.. this winds me up.

    I don't want the basic rate cut to 16%. I want the new NI levy reversed (before it becomes a trojan horse) and for the 20p/40p bands to go up in line with inflation each year, just as they used to.

    If there's spare revenue, use it for that please.

    The differential between the taxes on earned money and unearned money are already at absurd levels. Steps that equalise the tax payable so that everyone pays a fairer share are essential. This proposal, which will, of course, never see the light of day, shows that Sunak is still not getting that.
    The biggest problem with Sunak is his, almost non-existent, political instincts.

    He seems to have absolutely no ability to think see round corners.
    He's a paint-by-numbers Chancellor. I'll put up a tax you won't notice so much, or that is more popular, so that you'll cheer me for cutting a less popular tax.

    He'd have income tax at zero and replaced by increases to the NHS and social care levy if he was left in charge.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    Man who sold his soul to be Chancellor, then 24 hours later did a reverse ferret to tell Boris to resign, while bravely staying in his new job, backs Liz Truss. #ToryLeadershipRace #integrity #NadhimZahawi https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1553853794664026112
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,294

    It will almost certainly not matter, but it’s worth remembering that the men’s World Cup is happening November into early December. If, bizarrely, England win that, then the chances are one of the team wins SPOTY and the team itself definitely wins team of the year. But it’s a long shot!

    I think the World Cup final and SPOTY are both on the 18th December. If England win not sure many people will be paying attention to SPOTY. Something weird, like a cyclist winning, could happen.
    The World Cup Final is at 3pm UK time, if the BBC has any sense (!) they’ll schedule the sports awards show to be straight afterwards, and put the match on a big screen for their live audience.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    Liz Truss has promised to extend a scheme allowing unskilled migrants to pick fruit and vegetables as part of a package to boost food security https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-leadership-race-i-will-allow-more-migrants-to-pick-fruit-says-liz-truss-7xhnf3rjc
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,967
    Scott_xP said:

    Thoughts and prayers with Leon this morning as Women's football dominates the headlines...

    Eh? Were you here last night? He was giddy with excitement. Block capitals were used.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,709
    edited August 1

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Ironically, Rishi joining the Dutch auction on income tax rates distracts from his record of various payments aimed at mitigating high gas and electricity bills.
    Yes. Those payments are the kind of targeted intervention more of is needed to avoid millions of people being pushed into outright poverty.

    But no-one is interested in this.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On the article below the headline.. this winds me up.

    I don't want the basic rate cut to 16%. I want the new NI levy reversed (before it becomes a trojan horse) and for the 20p/40p bands to go up in line with inflation each year, just as they used to.

    If there's spare revenue, use it for that please.

    The differential between the taxes on earned money and unearned money are already at absurd levels. Steps that equalise the tax payable so that everyone pays a fairer share are essential. This proposal, which will, of course, never see the light of day, shows that Sunak is still not getting that.
    The biggest problem with Sunak is his, almost non-existent, political instincts.

    He seems to have absolutely no ability to think see round corners.
    I think that he knows full well that increasing NI and reducing IT favours the retired once again. It is frankly bizarre that by far the largest users of the NHS are not expected to contribute to it. The policy favours the selected group who are the Tories' most solid supporters but it is simply wrong, bordering on immoral.
    Ever since Mrs Thatcher doubled VAT and cut income tax, it has been the same. All that has changed is the particular group that is favoured. And Liz Truss's corporation tax pitch might as well have been written by her cheerleaders in the huge media conglomerates.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,967

    IanB2 said:

    Or earps?

    Or Russo? That is one danger: the BBC might shortlist the wrong player, although the case for Mead herself is pretty clear:-

    Euro 2022: England's Beth Mead named tournament's best player after winning Golden Boot
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62371060
    As someone, like many, who only watched the final, and not the other games, Beth Mead didn't particularly stand out. But maybe it's people who watch more sport who are more likely to vote?
    Agreed, she didn't stand out in the final. No one did, really. Solid team effort. But from what I saw in earlier games she or Rousso were England's standout players.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,040
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Thoughts and prayers with Leon this morning as Women's football dominates the headlines...

    Eh? Were you here last night? He was giddy with excitement. Block capitals were used.
    Yes but it was only a few days earlier that he was rubbishing the whole thing and saying he doesn't watch it.

    If ever I see a man walk into a casino and put his chips on red and black, odd and even, I will go over and ask if he's one of our Leons.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,118
    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Thoughts and prayers with Leon this morning as Women's football dominates the headlines...

    Eh? Were you here last night? He was giddy with excitement. Block capitals were used.
    Yes but it was only a few days earlier that he was rubbishing the whole thing and saying he doesn't watch it.

    If ever I see a man walk into a casino and put his chips on red and black, odd and even, I will go over and ask if he's one of our Leons.
    Surely the sign will be is several million… aspects of the same person do that, all st the same time?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,902

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On the article below the headline.. this winds me up.

    I don't want the basic rate cut to 16%. I want the new NI levy reversed (before it becomes a trojan horse) and for the 20p/40p bands to go up in line with inflation each year, just as they used to.

    If there's spare revenue, use it for that please.

    The differential between the taxes on earned money and unearned money are already at absurd levels. Steps that equalise the tax payable so that everyone pays a fairer share are essential. This proposal, which will, of course, never see the light of day, shows that Sunak is still not getting that.
    The biggest problem with Sunak is his, almost non-existent, political instincts.

    He seems to have absolutely no ability to think see round corners.
    I think that he knows full well that increasing NI and reducing IT favours the retired once again. It is frankly bizarre that by far the largest users of the NHS are not expected to contribute it. The policy favours the selected group who are the Tories' most solid supporters but it is simply wrong, bordering on immoral.
    And, if that is the case, he has nothing new to offer.

    I want a Conservative PM who's going to lead for the country, not continue to feather the nest of its clientele.

    There is clearly a discernible direction of travel in the Conservative party: lower taxes, a much smaller public realm, higher defence spending, fewer employment rights, lower environmental protections and food standards. It is a full-scale embrace of the American model. The issue is whether there are enough people in the UK who will buy it. We probably do need to have the argument, though.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    Cookie said:

    Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Subscribe to OSMaps on your phone. Assuming you can get a signal on Dartmoor of course...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Ironically, Rishi joining the Dutch auction on income tax rates distracts from his record of various payments aimed at mitigating high gas and electricity bills.
    Yes. Those payments are the kind of targeted intervention more of is needed to avoid millions of people being pushed into outright poverty.

    But no-one is interested in this.
    There will be more calls for windfall taxes on energy companies who are posting record profits on the back of Putin playing silly buggers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    .@RishiSunak is tripling down on his argument that Osborne's corporation tax cuts simply didn't increase business investment
    Says that on that issue @trussliz is the one who is backing "the failed orthodoxy" of corporate tax cuts.…"We tried it for a decade…it hasn’t worked."

    Worth pointing out that this is exactly the kind of thing many Labour MPs have been saying for years too.


    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1553996855176036352
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,521
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Thoughts and prayers with Leon this morning as Women's football dominates the headlines...

    Eh? Were you here last night? He was giddy with excitement. Block capitals were used.
    No one ever accused Leon of being consistent...
  • eekeek Posts: 20,284
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Corporation tax cuts aren't going to be keeping anyone warm this winter.

    The scale of the food and fossil fuel bills, as well as interest rises do not make for easy solutions.

    It may be that Labour is just keeping its powder dry, but I cannot but wonder if they have any powder at all.
    If Labour had a plan the Tories will nick it and take the glory.

    But I don't think they have a plan as I don't think a suitable plan exists...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,902
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Corporation tax cuts aren't going to be keeping anyone warm this winter.

    The scale of the food and fossil fuel bills, as well as interest rises do not make for easy solutions.

    It may be that Labour is just keeping its powder dry, but I cannot but wonder if they have any powder at all.

    There is nothing that Labour can do about the cost of living crisis that will make much difference - except suggesting stuff that the Tories will then nick (see the Windfall Tax). What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,521
    I wonder if Rishi will be able to pay the heating bill on his new swimming pool this winter?

    https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/1553473617903734785?t=lHpBmlADdTmW5xLZgGN4fQ&s=19
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,584
    edited August 1
    Good morning everyone!
    Is this the morning after the night before? Or are we going to get hooked once again on the Commonwealth Games?
    I'd certainly rather have that than the interminable wrangles of the Conservative leadership candidates!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,902
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Corporation tax cuts aren't going to be keeping anyone warm this winter.

    The scale of the food and fossil fuel bills, as well as interest rises do not make for easy solutions.

    It may be that Labour is just keeping its powder dry, but I cannot but wonder if they have any powder at all.
    If Labour had a plan the Tories will nick it and take the glory.

    But I don't think they have a plan as I don't think a suitable plan exists...

    There is huge wealth inequality in the UK - we have some of the poorest regions in Western Europe and two of the very richest. In terms of general standards of living, we also trail many of our western European neighbours. There is clearly more that can be done, but it does need a major reset and a willingness to confront the issues we face seriously. The problem is that voters will not reward politicians who tell the truth and set out what the real choices are.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,829
    edited August 1
    Cookie said:


    Early start this morning. Left home at 5.01, made it to everybody's favourite M5 service station for breakfast. Much quieter on a Monday than a Saturday! Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Tebay or Gloucester?

    Edit: Now realise it must be Gloucester as M5...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,967
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Subscribe to OSMaps on your phone. Assuming you can get a signal on Dartmoor of course...
    That's a good idea. But I may just buy a new one. You can never have too many OS maps, and if you do your Dad probably wants the duplicates.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152


    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,829

    Cookie said:


    Early start this morning. Left home at 5.01, made it to everybody's favourite M5 service station for breakfast. Much quieter on a Monday than a Saturday! Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Tebay or Gloucester?
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Subscribe to OSMaps on your phone. Assuming you can get a signal on Dartmoor of course...
    Do both. You look a complete prick if you run out of signal and get lost!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Subscribe to OSMaps on your phone. Assuming you can get a signal on Dartmoor of course...
    That's a good idea. But I may just buy a new one. You can never have too many OS maps, and if you do your Dad probably wants the duplicates.
    Doesn't help you today, but have you seen these?

    https://www.splash-maps.com
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,401

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Mercedes are only 30 points off Ferrari. That's ridiculous.

    Red Bull must be laughing their heads off.

    Reasonably likely they will have overtaken them by the end of the season.
    If there a market for second ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    Rishi Sunak temporarily taken out by a bout of uncontrollable giggling as Nadhim Zahawi’s attack lines are read to him on Today
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1553995385038950400
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 9,085

    If Jonny Bairstow carries on scoring like he has been, he could be a contender. We've got a Test series v SA, the T20 World Cup and an ODI series v Aus before SPOTY

    The last three cricketers to win have been Botham (1981), Flintoff (2005), Stokes (2019).

    Always allrounders. Always after heroics against the Aussies in the Ashes.

    Bairstow is in great form, but he won't win SPOTY.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,584
    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152


    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    Is this SKS' cunning plan?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,967
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Subscribe to OSMaps on your phone. Assuming you can get a signal on Dartmoor of course...
    That's a good idea. But I may just buy a new one. You can never have too many OS maps, and if you do your Dad probably wants the duplicates.
    Doesn't help you today, but have you seen these?

    https://www.splash-maps.com
    I hadn't, no. They look brilliant.
  • eekeek Posts: 20,284

    Cookie said:


    Early start this morning. Left home at 5.01, made it to everybody's favourite M5 service station for breakfast. Much quieter on a Monday than a Saturday! Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Tebay or Gloucester?

    Edit: Now realise it must be Gloucester as M5...
    There is also Cairn Lodge in Scotland and they are building another one planned at Tatton Services / Altrincham.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,584

    If Jonny Bairstow carries on scoring like he has been, he could be a contender. We've got a Test series v SA, the T20 World Cup and an ODI series v Aus before SPOTY

    The last three cricketers to win have been Botham (1981), Flintoff (2005), Stokes (2019).

    Always allrounders. Always after heroics against the Aussies in the Ashes.

    Bairstow is in great form, but he won't win SPOTY.
    And the season is about to be spoiled by a month of 16.4!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 6,967

    Cookie said:


    Early start this morning. Left home at 5.01, made it to everybody's favourite M5 service station for breakfast. Much quieter on a Monday than a Saturday! Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Tebay or Gloucester?
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Subscribe to OSMaps on your phone. Assuming you can get a signal on Dartmoor of course...
    Do both. You look a complete prick if you run out of signal and get lost!
    Gloucester. Tebay at least equally good, of course, but we're heading south!
  • eekeek Posts: 20,284

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Corporation tax cuts aren't going to be keeping anyone warm this winter.

    The scale of the food and fossil fuel bills, as well as interest rises do not make for easy solutions.

    It may be that Labour is just keeping its powder dry, but I cannot but wonder if they have any powder at all.
    If Labour had a plan the Tories will nick it and take the glory.

    But I don't think they have a plan as I don't think a suitable plan exists...

    There is huge wealth inequality in the UK - we have some of the poorest regions in Western Europe and two of the very richest. In terms of general standards of living, we also trail many of our western European neighbours. There is clearly more that can be done, but it does need a major reset and a willingness to confront the issues we face seriously. The problem is that voters will not reward politicians who tell the truth and set out what the real choices are.

    All that is long term - my point was that there is little to nothing which can be done before October.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,401
    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152

    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    This touches on the point I made last night.
    The candidates for the leadership are campaigning on what are essentially completely new manifestos - and the only ones who get to make the choice are the wildly unrepresentative Tory selectorate.

    It's an affront to democracy irrespective of it being possible under our constitution.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,466
    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak temporarily taken out by a bout of uncontrollable giggling as Nadhim Zahawi’s attack lines are read to him on Today
    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1553995385038950400

    It was quite funny listening. Was very human when you are told something that’s really silly and all you can really do is laugh.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,118
    edited August 1

    Cookie said:


    Early start this morning. Left home at 5.01, made it to everybody's favourite M5 service station for breakfast. Much quieter on a Monday than a Saturday! Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Tebay or Gloucester?
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Subscribe to OSMaps on your phone. Assuming you can get a signal on Dartmoor of course...
    Do both. You look a complete prick if you run out of signal and get lost!
    I’ve used

    https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/footpath-route-planner/id634845718

    With some success - it downloads the data for the route, so all you need is the GPS signal to find your way….

    EDIT: you need to tell it which stuff to download…
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,829
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Subscribe to OSMaps on your phone. Assuming you can get a signal on Dartmoor of course...
    That's a good idea. But I may just buy a new one. You can never have too many OS maps, and if you do your Dad probably wants the duplicates.
    Doesn't help you today, but have you seen these?

    https://www.splash-maps.com
    Very cool, thanks for linking!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,145
    F1: can't see a winner without Red Bull market yet.

    Verstappen, on Betfair, is 1.14 to win the title. I can't explicitly recommend it as I'm not backing it (odds too short for the length of time the cash'll be tied up) but he has an 80 point lead ahead of the next man.

    There are 9 rounds left.

    If Mercedes are faster than Ferrari this is advantage Verstappen, who is 100 points ahead of the top chap there (Russell).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,902
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Corporation tax cuts aren't going to be keeping anyone warm this winter.

    The scale of the food and fossil fuel bills, as well as interest rises do not make for easy solutions.

    It may be that Labour is just keeping its powder dry, but I cannot but wonder if they have any powder at all.
    If Labour had a plan the Tories will nick it and take the glory.

    But I don't think they have a plan as I don't think a suitable plan exists...

    There is huge wealth inequality in the UK - we have some of the poorest regions in Western Europe and two of the very richest. In terms of general standards of living, we also trail many of our western European neighbours. There is clearly more that can be done, but it does need a major reset and a willingness to confront the issues we face seriously. The problem is that voters will not reward politicians who tell the truth and set out what the real choices are.

    All that is long term - my point was that there is little to nothing which can be done before October.

    Fair enough. Clearly, that's right. There are measures that can help, though. The problem is that few if any come with a political upside. Reducing costs so that they go up less than they would otherwise is still presiding over rising prices - and who gets thanks for that?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,034
    Cookie said:


    Early start this morning. Left home at 5.01, made it to everybody's favourite M5 service station for breakfast. Much quieter on a Monday than a Saturday! Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Enjoy your time in Devon!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,829

    Cookie said:


    Early start this morning. Left home at 5.01, made it to everybody's favourite M5 service station for breakfast. Much quieter on a Monday than a Saturday! Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Enjoy your time in Devon!
    Plus 1 from me too. Will be in Devon in four weeks time with our classic mini. Seems a long wait to get there still!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 41,040
    BREAKING: Dorries falls to BOTTOM in the ConHome Tory members' Cabinet Member popularity stakes...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    Relevant to an earlier thread

    One of the main issues is bands of all sizes now need a carnet - an international customs document - to be allowed to go between the UK and EU with all their equipment, costing a minimum of £600.

    https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/every-barrier-in-the-world-went-up-overnight-music-festivals-call-for-help-with-brexit-issues-12658850
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Dorries falls to BOTTOM in the ConHome Tory members' Cabinet Member popularity stakes...

    Liz Truss was at Wembley last night with Nadine Dorries for the Euros final, so it's safe to say she's not going to condemn her for sharing an image on Twitter of Rishi Sunak stabbing Boris Johnson in the back ...

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ministers-condemn-nadine-dorries-over-rishi-sunak-comments_uk_62e65ce3e4b0c60a56690b56
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,294
    edited August 1

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sunak's problem is he's belatedly realised the Tories are a deeply unserious party now, and is pitching in. But in that case the party will pick the more authentically unserious candidate.

    And to this point it's shocking no politician - I include Labour in this - appears interested in addressing Cost of Living, the biggest crisis facing the country.
    Corporation tax cuts aren't going to be keeping anyone warm this winter.

    The scale of the food and fossil fuel bills, as well as interest rises do not make for easy solutions.

    It may be that Labour is just keeping its powder dry, but I cannot but wonder if they have any powder at all.
    If Labour had a plan the Tories will nick it and take the glory.

    But I don't think they have a plan as I don't think a suitable plan exists...

    There is huge wealth inequality in the UK - we have some of the poorest regions in Western Europe and two of the very richest. In terms of general standards of living, we also trail many of our western European neighbours. There is clearly more that can be done, but it does need a major reset and a willingness to confront the issues we face seriously. The problem is that voters will not reward politicians who tell the truth and set out what the real choices are.

    All that is long term - my point was that there is little to nothing which can be done before October.

    Fair enough. Clearly, that's right. There are measures that can help, though. The problem is that few if any come with a political upside. Reducing costs so that they go up less than they would otherwise is still presiding over rising prices - and who gets thanks for that?

    Policymakers everywhere seem to be walking flat-footed into chaos this winter, if energy prices are anywhere close to predictions.

    Nothing any government can do is going to be enough, and extreme measures such as nationalisation of O&G supply are a prisoners’ dilemma. The already-announced £400 payments may not be enough, and as you suggest it’s an expensive exercise with little political upside.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 71,279
    Whilst I get the feeling that, even in these cynical times Wallace's support for Truss over Sunak is very likely genuine and Tugendhat was going for a 'unite the party' vibe I can't help but feel this morning's endorsement is ALL about trying to cling onto a job.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,401
    Pulpstar said:

    Whilst I get the feeling that, even in these cynical times Wallace's support for Truss over Sunak is very likely genuine and Tugendhat was going for a 'unite the party' vibe I can't help but feel this morning's endorsement is ALL about trying to cling onto a job.

    It's what the entire process, from the defenestration of Boris onwards, is all about.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,405
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152

    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    This touches on the point I made last night.
    The candidates for the leadership are campaigning on what are essentially completely new manifestos - and the only ones who get to make the choice are the wildly unrepresentative Tory selectorate.

    It's an affront to democracy irrespective of it being possible under our constitution.
    To be fair the Tories didn't have an option once they decided to retire Johnson - they have to have a leadership contest and it has to be based on the membership. However, it's a bit as though a Labour contest in 2008 had been between Corbyn and McDonnell, and that both of them had been senior Ministers for years and had suddenly remembered they were left-wing. Ir's quite surreal, and the next Labour campaign will be absolutely spoiled for choice on which quotes to use.

    Regardless, the Betfair price on Sunak does look too long at 11. There are increasing reports that the race is pretty close:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/01/righter-than-right-tory-conservative-hardline-drift-public-opinion
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682
    Winning goal scorer Chloe Kelly shows the lioness's lack of media training in this hilarious post-match interview where she sings Sweet Caroline and runs off with the microphone.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwkW0WHJiwM

    And here is the whole team gatecrashing the manager's press conference.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/62372849
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697

    Winning goal scorer Chloe Kelly shows the lioness's lack of media training in this hilarious post-match interview where she sings Sweet Caroline and runs off with the microphone.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwkW0WHJiwM

    It's very funny, but she doesn't run off with it, she drops it. You can hear the thump. Literal mic drop...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,034
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152

    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    This touches on the point I made last night.
    The candidates for the leadership are campaigning on what are essentially completely new manifestos - and the only ones who get to make the choice are the wildly unrepresentative Tory selectorate.

    It's an affront to democracy irrespective of it being possible under our constitution.
    Wilson to Callaghan, an affront to democracy....

    Thatcher to Major, an affront to democracy....

    Blair to Brown, an affront to democracy....

    Either democracy is easily affronted here. Or it's the way we do things.

    At least Cameron to May (eventually) and May to Johnson (quickly) led to general elections. But there is no reason for our new PM to do so.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 71,279
    Cookie said:


    Early start this morning. Left home at 5.01, made it to everybody's favourite M5 service station for breakfast. Much quieter on a Monday than a Saturday! Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Start of any SW holiday, those services.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,034

    Cookie said:


    Early start this morning. Left home at 5.01, made it to everybody's favourite M5 service station for breakfast. Much quieter on a Monday than a Saturday! Even the realisation that I have forgotten my ordnance survey map of Dartmoor cannot quell my mood of excitement.

    Enjoy your time in Devon!
    Plus 1 from me too. Will be in Devon in four weeks time with our classic mini. Seems a long wait to get there still!
    Depending on where you'll be, just PM for some recommendations of places to go/eat in the south.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697
    The other big winners last night. Nike...



    Wouldn't like to be the Umbro sales chief this morning...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,082
    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Dorries falls to BOTTOM in the ConHome Tory members' Cabinet Member popularity stakes...

    ..


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697

    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Dorries falls to BOTTOM in the ConHome Tory members' Cabinet Member popularity stakes...

    Does she get voted out of the jungle now?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152

    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    This touches on the point I made last night.
    The candidates for the leadership are campaigning on what are essentially completely new manifestos - and the only ones who get to make the choice are the wildly unrepresentative Tory selectorate.

    It's an affront to democracy irrespective of it being possible under our constitution.
    Wilson to Callaghan, an affront to democracy....

    Thatcher to Major, an affront to democracy....

    Blair to Brown, an affront to democracy....

    Either democracy is easily affronted here. Or it's the way we do things.

    At least Cameron to May (eventually) and May to Johnson (quickly) led to general elections. But there is no reason for our new PM to do so.

    It is not the change of Prime Minister that is an affront to democracy; it is that they are ditching the manifesto on which the party was elected, and that the choice of new Prime Minister and hence new policies is made not by MPs representing their constituents but by party members representing no-one but themselves.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,034

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152

    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    This touches on the point I made last night.
    The candidates for the leadership are campaigning on what are essentially completely new manifestos - and the only ones who get to make the choice are the wildly unrepresentative Tory selectorate.

    It's an affront to democracy irrespective of it being possible under our constitution.
    To be fair the Tories didn't have an option once they decided to retire Johnson - they have to have a leadership contest and it has to be based on the membership. However, it's a bit as though a Labour contest in 2008 had been between Corbyn and McDonnell, and that both of them had been senior Ministers for years and had suddenly remembered they were left-wing. Ir's quite surreal, and the next Labour campaign will be absolutely spoiled for choice on which quotes to use.

    Regardless, the Betfair price on Sunak does look too long at 11. There are increasing reports that the race is pretty close:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/01/righter-than-right-tory-conservative-hardline-drift-public-opinion
    Our local branch management will have one write in for Badenoch. The rest are for Rishi. For what its worth.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,401

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152

    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    This touches on the point I made last night.
    The candidates for the leadership are campaigning on what are essentially completely new manifestos - and the only ones who get to make the choice are the wildly unrepresentative Tory selectorate.

    It's an affront to democracy irrespective of it being possible under our constitution.
    Wilson to Callaghan, an affront to democracy....

    Thatcher to Major, an affront to democracy....

    Blair to Brown, an affront to democracy....

    Either democracy is easily affronted here. Or it's the way we do things.

    At least Cameron to May (eventually) and May to Johnson (quickly) led to general elections. But there is no reason for our new PM to do so.

    There's a reasonable case for our elected representatives selecting a replacement PM.
    There's no case at all for giving an unrepresentative, tending geriatric, group of a hundred thousand or so randoms that choice.

    'The way we do things' is not a justification.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,584

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152

    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    This touches on the point I made last night.
    The candidates for the leadership are campaigning on what are essentially completely new manifestos - and the only ones who get to make the choice are the wildly unrepresentative Tory selectorate.

    It's an affront to democracy irrespective of it being possible under our constitution.
    Wilson to Callaghan, an affront to democracy....

    Thatcher to Major, an affront to democracy....

    Blair to Brown, an affront to democracy....

    Either democracy is easily affronted here. Or it's the way we do things.

    At least Cameron to May (eventually) and May to Johnson (quickly) led to general elections. But there is no reason for our new PM to do so.

    We don't elect a prime minister though; we elect a group of people in a political party who presumably have the same or at least similar philosophies. So changing the guy at the front shouldn't make that much difference. As others have pointed out if we are changing philosophies then we ought to have an election!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,848

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152

    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    This touches on the point I made last night.
    The candidates for the leadership are campaigning on what are essentially completely new manifestos - and the only ones who get to make the choice are the wildly unrepresentative Tory selectorate.

    It's an affront to democracy irrespective of it being possible under our constitution.
    Wilson to Callaghan, an affront to democracy....

    Thatcher to Major, an affront to democracy....

    Blair to Brown, an affront to democracy....

    Either democracy is easily affronted here. Or it's the way we do things.

    At least Cameron to May (eventually) and May to Johnson (quickly) led to general elections. But there is no reason for our new PM to do so.

    We voted the current crop of Parliamentarians in on a constituency vote basis.

    Ms Truss has absolutely no requirement to go to the country to seek a mandate, she already has one.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,682
    Hustings in Devon today (assuming Liz and Rishi remembered to pack their OS maps).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 23,697

    Ms Truss has absolutely no requirement to go to the country to seek a mandate, she already has one.

    She is abandoning the manifesto on which they were elected
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,580
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What Labour needs to find is a coherent longer-term message that persuades voters that future cost of living crises are less likely if it is in charge. I think that the Tories dash to full-on Americanisation could well help with that.


    ‘Failed orthodoxy of the last 10 years’ says Sunak

    Amazing the pitch of both candidates to be PM is based on how bad the govt has been for years

    https://twitter.com/JoelTaylorhack/status/1553996060670001152

    The Tories are writing Labour's campaign for them
    This touches on the point I made last night.
    The candidates for the leadership are campaigning on what are essentially completely new manifestos - and the only ones who get to make the choice are the wildly unrepresentative Tory selectorate.

    It's an affront to democracy irrespective of it being possible under our constitution.
    Wilson to Callaghan, an affront to democracy....

    Thatcher to Major, an affront to democracy....

    Blair to Brown, an affront to democracy....

    Either democracy is easily affronted here. Or it's the way we do things.

    At least Cameron to May (eventually) and May to Johnson (quickly) led to general elections. But there is no reason for our new PM to do so.

    There's a reasonable case for our elected representatives selecting a replacement PM.
    There's no case at all for giving an unrepresentative, tending geriatric, group of a hundred thousand or so randoms that choice.

    'The way we do things' is not a justification.
    If people really want a vote in leadership elections all they have to do is join a political party.

    But clearly most people are happy to wait until the next general election.
This discussion has been closed.