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This is developing into a big problem for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited July 2022

    Leon said:

    We did this. Us, the British. We changed the world more than any other nation on earth by a vast distance

    And we changed it, enormously, for the better




    https://twitter.com/peterwildeford/status/1553181284184330242?s=21&t=GWb9sJshFzAdjkdUxs18Ng

    So when you get socialist snakes like @kinabalu telling you that “pride in Britain” is “sentimental nonsense” or worse, show them that, then push their heads down the toilet

    The valleys in Derbyshire, Lancashire and Shropshire where the industrial revolution took place should be viewed on the level of importance of Ionian Greece and Renaissance Tuscany.

    Leon said:

    We did this. Us, the British. We changed the world more than any other nation on earth by a vast distance

    And we changed it, enormously, for the better




    https://twitter.com/peterwildeford/status/1553181284184330242?s=21&t=GWb9sJshFzAdjkdUxs18Ng

    So when you get socialist snakes like @kinabalu telling you that “pride in Britain” is “sentimental nonsense” or worse, show them that, then push their heads down the toilet

    The valleys in Derbyshire, Lancashire and Shropshire where the industrial revolution took place should be viewed on the level of importance of Ionian Greece and Renaissance Tuscany.
    The intellectual and political liberty of Britain in the 18th Century, to which most of the rest of Europe aspired, should be seen in this light, as should probably the ecosystems that created the novel in Britain around the same time, but I'm not sure about comparing the Industrial Revolution with Greece and the Renaissance. It changed the world, but it was an economic rather than cultural achievement, that , in the short-term at least , quite badly damaged the life conditions of the British working class. In some ways, I think that British scientific achievement, beyond just industry, and novel-writing, of the nineteenth century , were more universal achievements on behalf of all, at that time.
  • ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile.
    Vucic is addressing the Serbian people.

    🇷🇸Serbian President Vučić:

    "All I can say is that we will ask for peace and ask for peace, but I will tell you right away: there will be no surrender and Serbia will win. If they try to start persecuting Serbs, bullying Serbs, killing Serbs, Serbia will win!"


    https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1553820136301367297
    It is a real shame that Milosevic's government wasn't properly purged after he was ousted. Then this twat Vucic would be safe in prison where he belongs.
    Yet, this Tpyxa account (no blue tick note) wrote this:

    "TPYXA ⚡ Middle East
    @middleeasttime
    ·
    20m
    Close the border between Kosovo and Serbia

    Kosovo army plans to attack northern Serbia at midnight"


    How? Am I being stupid? Kosovo is to the south of Serbia
    If you're a Serbian nationalist you would regard Kosovo as South Serbia, and so what we would simply call Serbia would then be called North Serbia.

    Seems to be a pretty clear indication that they don't recognise Kosovan independence.
    And there, in a nutshell, is the problem with nationalism.

    Are you listening @BartholomewRoberts?
    QTWAIN @Benpointer - its not a problem with nationalism, its a problem with people who don't respect democracy.

    In a civilised free society there's a simple way to democratically resolve these disputes - bullets not ballots.

    In a civilised world you can have Scottish nationalists versus British nationalists versus European nationalists making their case and let the voters decide freely.

    That the Kosovan nationalists wanted their own independence from Milosevic and his cronies wasn't a problem. It isn't nationalism that's the problem, its when people try to force others to do what they don't want via force that it is a problem.
  • 🚨BREAKING🚨

    Rishi Sunak has promised to slash the basic rate of income tax from 20% to **16%** if he becomes PM

    Would be done by the end of next parliament. Costs £18bn, paid by extra revenues from growth.

    Big moment in the campaign. Truss camp accuses him of a tax “u-turn”

    What a f***ing joke.

    How about reversing the NI hike to start with if those taxes aren't needed anymore? Oh, wait, NI isn't paid by people living off unearned incomes so ramp that up and cut income tax which is charged on unearned incomes.

    This is beyond ridiculous now. How anyone can still support Sunak over Truss is beyond me.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile.
    Vucic is addressing the Serbian people.

    🇷🇸Serbian President Vučić:

    "All I can say is that we will ask for peace and ask for peace, but I will tell you right away: there will be no surrender and Serbia will win. If they try to start persecuting Serbs, bullying Serbs, killing Serbs, Serbia will win!"


    https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1553820136301367297
    It is a real shame that Milosevic's government wasn't properly purged after he was ousted. Then this twat Vucic would be safe in prison where he belongs.
    Yet, this Tpyxa account (no blue tick note) wrote this:

    "TPYXA ⚡ Middle East
    @middleeasttime
    ·
    20m
    Close the border between Kosovo and Serbia

    Kosovo army plans to attack northern Serbia at midnight"


    How? Am I being stupid? Kosovo is to the south of Serbia
    If you're a Serbian nationalist you would regard Kosovo as South Serbia, and so what we would simply call Serbia would then be called North Serbia.

    Seems to be a pretty clear indication that they don't recognise Kosovan independence.
    And there, in a nutshell, is the problem with nationalism.

    Are you listening @BartholomewRoberts?
    QTWAIN @Benpointer - its not a problem with nationalism, its a problem with people who don't respect democracy.

    In a civilised free society there's a simple way to democratically resolve these disputes - bullets not ballots.

    In a civilised world you can have Scottish nationalists versus British nationalists versus European nationalists making their case and let the voters decide freely.

    That the Kosovan nationalists wanted their own independence from Milosevic and his cronies wasn't a problem. It isn't nationalism that's the problem, its when people try to force others to do what they don't want via force that it is a problem.
    The 2014 referendums in the Donbas and Crimea were fake, then? I wonder how many current wavers of the Ukrainian flag in Britain bothered to ask themselves that question off their own bat, before they ran a flag up the flagpole.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(psychology)

    And if the war is escalated as some seem to want, there will or won't be a role for status referendums? Or doesn't it matter so long as "the Russians" are removed from the Donbas and Crimea and prevented from achieving Mr Invadypants in the Kremlin's "obvious" aim of annexing several foreign countries?
  • Oh f**k off Russian troll. Nobody here is dumb enough to buy what you're selling. Russian "referendums" at the barrel of a gun absolutely are fake.

    If you're interested there were real referendums that were conducted in Donbas, Crimea and the rest of Ukraine in 1991. Donetsk voted by 64% for Ukrainian independence.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651

    Oh f**k off Russian troll. Nobody here is dumb enough to buy what you're selling. Russian "referendums" at the barrel of a gun absolutely are fake.

    If you're interested there were real referendums that were conducted in Donbas, Crimea and the rest of Ukraine in 1991. Donetsk voted by 64% for Ukrainian independence.

    It's hard to believe that someone who wasn't a troll would advance such an argument.

    Oh and by the way your source is wrong. It was 84%. (It was 64% of the electorate.) So you know where you can stick your tone when you say "if you're interested".

    Aren't you the person who literally called for bombing Russia back to the Stone Age, basically for destroying Russia, or am I confusing you with another contributor?
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    I am in favour of internationally-observed repeat status referendums in the Donbas, but then unlike some people I want the fighting and killing to stop as soon as possible and I have reflected on how it might. International observers should come from neutral countries, and therefore not from anywhere that has armed Kiev. Perhaps China. No objection to both Russia and Ukraine also observing.

    Your problem, BartholomewRoberts, with new referendums would be that obviously almost everyone in the disputed regions wants to be in the Ukraine under the heroic regime led in Kiev by the "Servant of the People", the very same regime that now has the neo-Nazi Azov Regiment as part of its regular army, and that anyone who doesn't revere Nikita Khrushchev's 1954 allotment of the Crimean peninsula to the Ukraine is a troll for Mr "Invades wherever he can because he's mental" Putin - am I right?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Rishi Sunak has promised to slash the basic rate of income tax from 20% to **16%** if he becomes PM

    Would be done by the end of next parliament. Costs £18bn, paid by extra revenues from growth.

    Big moment in the campaign. Truss camp accuses him of a tax “u-turn”

    What a f***ing joke.

    How about reversing the NI hike to start with if those taxes aren't needed anymore? Oh, wait, NI isn't paid by people living off unearned incomes so ramp that up and cut income tax which is charged on unearned incomes.

    This is beyond ridiculous now. How anyone can still support Sunak over Truss is beyond me.
    They're both making highly dubious promises in order to win votes.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Rishi Sunak has promised to slash the basic rate of income tax from 20% to **16%** if he becomes PM

    Would be done by the end of next parliament. Costs £18bn, paid by extra revenues from growth.

    Big moment in the campaign. Truss camp accuses him of a tax “u-turn”

    What a f***ing joke.

    How about reversing the NI hike to start with if those taxes aren't needed anymore? Oh, wait, NI isn't paid by people living off unearned incomes so ramp that up and cut income tax which is charged on unearned incomes.

    This is beyond ridiculous now. How anyone can still support Sunak over Truss is beyond me.
    They're both making highly dubious promises in order to win votes.
    Which set of dubious promises will go down best with the retiree Bяexit-loving admirers of Ian Smith and Enoch Powell who account for a large part of the party's membership - cutting the contribution to the public good they are required to make from their interest on investments (Sunak) or cutting the contribution in the form of IHT taken from their estates when they drop dead (Truss)? Answer: Truss's, probably. I reckon they will see it as "one of us" versus "Mr Smartypants", overlooking the fact that Ms Truss went to a comprehensive and once dissed the queen.

    (Isn't there a better way of choosing the PM? Might be better to have a secret vote among MPs than this charade.)
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited August 2022
    Off topic

    Excellent episode of “the bottom line” on r4 today at 11.30 (available early, or on catch up via bbc sounds)

    “Little Boxes?” On housebuilding/planning.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0019kks
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,776
    Dynamo said:

    I am in favour of internationally-observed repeat status referendums in the Donbas, but then unlike some people I want the fighting and killing to stop as soon as possible and I have reflected on how it might. International observers should come from neutral countries, and therefore not from anywhere that has armed Kiev. Perhaps China. No objection to both Russia and Ukraine also observing.

    Your problem, BartholomewRoberts, with new referendums would be that obviously almost everyone in the disputed regions wants to be in the Ukraine under the heroic regime led in Kiev by the "Servant of the People", the very same regime that now has the neo-Nazi Azov Regiment as part of its regular army, and that anyone who doesn't revere Nikita Khrushchev's 1954 allotment of the Crimean peninsula to the Ukraine is a troll for Mr "Invades wherever he can because he's mental" Putin - am I right?

    So, you would propose that Russia abandons its invasion?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,776
    Dynamo said:

    Dynamo said:

    Leon said:

    We did this. Us, the British. We changed the world more than any other nation on earth by a vast distance

    And we changed it, enormously, for the better



    https://twitter.com/peterwildeford/status/1553181284184330242?s=21&t=GWb9sJshFzAdjkdUxs18Ng

    So when you get socialist snakes like @kinabalu telling you that “pride in Britain” is “sentimental nonsense” or worse, show them that, then push their heads down the toilet

    Did anyone else look at what's being measured here?

    * GDP/capita - a stupid measure for most of this period; a misleading one for the rest of it (clue: it's an amount of monetary value divided by population);

    * war-making capacity - should be plotted in the other direction, unless you think you and your neighbour storing up big piles of guns is a good thing; and what's the unit - mass of TNT equivalent? number of deaths causable in an hour if all the world's weapons were used right away?

    * % not living in extreme poverty - meaning what?

    * energy capture per day - another stupid measure

    * % "living in a democacy" - oh give us a break

    * life expectancy - ah, quantity!

    What about hours worked?
    What about alienation?
    What about the current position where so many spend so many hours picking at little personal electronic devices like complete and utter zombies?
    But hail the national flag, eh?

    image
    How about a graph for the suicide rate?
    Or the proportion of people who enjoy their dreams?
    How about what a Stone Age person might think? Or what existing Stone Age people might think?

    Or are such considerations a bunch of codswallop compared to USD of output per "capita" and the combined size of all the weapons piles?
    You are really quite mad, aren't you?
  • Speaking of trolls...

    Feds put $10m bounty on Putin pal accused of bankrolling US election troll farm
    Just in time for the midterms

    The Feds have put up a $10 million reward for information about foreign interference in US elections in general, and more specifically a Russian oligarch and close friend of President Vladimir Putin accused of funding an organization that meddled in the 2016 presidential elections.

    https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/29/feds_10m_bounty_russia/

    Britain is fortunate that Russia has never interfered with our politics and especially not Brexit or the Conservative Party. Channel 4's thriller on Russian cyberwarfare against this country — The Undeclared War — is not very thrilling. Maybe that is why Nadine Dorries wants to sell them off.
  • Betfair next prime minister
    1.1 Liz Truss 91%
    10.5 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.1 Liz Truss 91%
    11 Rishi Sunak 9%

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.1 Liz Truss 91%
    11 Rishi Sunak 9%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.1 Liz Truss 91%
    11 Rishi Sunak 9%
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,748
    Cicero said:

    Dynamo said:

    I am in favour of internationally-observed repeat status referendums in the Donbas, but then unlike some people I want the fighting and killing to stop as soon as possible and I have reflected on how it might. International observers should come from neutral countries, and therefore not from anywhere that has armed Kiev. Perhaps China. No objection to both Russia and Ukraine also observing.

    Your problem, BartholomewRoberts, with new referendums would be that obviously almost everyone in the disputed regions wants to be in the Ukraine under the heroic regime led in Kiev by the "Servant of the People", the very same regime that now has the neo-Nazi Azov Regiment as part of its regular army, and that anyone who doesn't revere Nikita Khrushchev's 1954 allotment of the Crimean peninsula to the Ukraine is a troll for Mr "Invades wherever he can because he's mental" Putin - am I right?

    Referendum? What, under the "influence" of the brutal, murderous solidiers of Putin? It is a bit of a giveaway when a Putintroll tries to pretend that Ukrainians are any kind of equal to the raping, torturing, murdering crew that Russia considers to be its "army". Away with you, troll!
    The strange thing is that Russia try to develop this narrative which is 'well there's two sides, both as bad as each other etc' but then they allow details to be revealed about atrocities that its own soldiers commit, then they provide incredulous claims about the Ukrainians which are obviously false and have no credibility at all (like the idea that it bombed its own prisoners of war).

    There is a Russian 'side' to the conflict in Ukraine, but it has been made irrelevant and obsolete by its conduct in the current conflict.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    NATO forces in Kosovo stand ready to intervene. Let’s hope,they don’t need to.

    https://twitter.com/nato_kfor/status/1553852357972316160?s=21&t=Mug-hgCzWmPZqnOUQKhuqw
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    This thread has regenerated. A new thread at last
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    No booze for me tonight

    Me neither. 1st dry day in 20. Feels ok.
    I've had one pint of beer since I caught Covid at a wedding in the middle of June. It's been a weird period.
    Because the Covid is lingering?
    Yes. The Long Covid. No acute symptoms anymore (test negative, no fever or cough) but I'm sleeping more, still feeling exhausted, needing to nap during the day (I slept for a couple of hours before the football yesterday afternoon) and feel dizzy if I try and do anything vaguely physical (like dishwashing) for too long.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    No booze for me tonight

    Me neither. 1st dry day in 20. Feels ok.
    I've had one pint of beer since I caught Covid at a wedding in the middle of June. It's been a weird period.
    Because the Covid is lingering?
    Yes. The Long Covid. No acute symptoms anymore (test negative, no fever or cough) but I'm sleeping more, still feeling exhausted, needing to nap during the day (I slept for a couple of hours before the football yesterday afternoon) and feel dizzy if I try and do anything vaguely physical (like dishwashing) for too long.
    I am not a doctor but might this be the heat making it hard to sleep at night (so exhausted) and dehydrated during the day (so dizzy)?

    Also, New thread.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    No booze for me tonight

    Me neither. 1st dry day in 20. Feels ok.
    I've had one pint of beer since I caught Covid at a wedding in the middle of June. It's been a weird period.
    Because the Covid is lingering?
    Yes. The Long Covid. No acute symptoms anymore (test negative, no fever or cough) but I'm sleeping more, still feeling exhausted, needing to nap during the day (I slept for a couple of hours before the football yesterday afternoon) and feel dizzy if I try and do anything vaguely physical (like dishwashing) for too long.
    I am not a doctor but might this be the heat making it hard to sleep at night (so exhausted) and dehydrated during the day (so dizzy)?

    Also, New thread.
    Well, during this period I've been in the West of Ireland and Scotland, so the heat hasn't been so bad. And I've been sleeping more at night compared with before Covid, as well as needing to nap during the day.

    So, unfortunately, I can't blame transient weather. It is slowly improving. But it's very slow.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,857

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    No booze for me tonight

    Me neither. 1st dry day in 20. Feels ok.
    I've had one pint of beer since I caught Covid at a wedding in the middle of June. It's been a weird period.
    Because the Covid is lingering?
    Yes. The Long Covid. No acute symptoms anymore (test negative, no fever or cough) but I'm sleeping more, still feeling exhausted, needing to nap during the day (I slept for a couple of hours before the football yesterday afternoon) and feel dizzy if I try and do anything vaguely physical (like dishwashing) for too long.
    Ah I really hope that ameliorates soon. My Covid lasted for 4 weeks which to me seemed an eternity.
This discussion has been closed.