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Another reason why Boris Johnson had to go – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:

    Story on the BBC stating that the HO has now granted 166k visas to Ukrainian refugees. Its been embarrassingly slow but they do seem to be finally getting there.

    Bit like how we were told “the UK will never register 3 million EU citizens in time” - and we didn’t - it was nearer 6 million…..

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    HYUFD said:


    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Mordaunt is completely woke and captured by the TRA

    The more I investigated the worse it got. The Tories dodged a bullet
    Although she has clearly figured out that she needs to pretend not to be. This may well explain why she chose to lie about her past decisions rather than to admit to having been on a journey. A better operator would have figured that out, and not tried the easily disprovable lie.
    Indeed

    She is probably the first major politician in the UK to lose out on a massive job for being Woke. In her case, the biggest job. Without this, I reckon she'd be home and hosed as PM

    This in itself is progress. You can no longer be Woke without paying a price. Onwards
    Nah, that's massively overplaying it. She wasn't up to it in a few different ways - ultimately an empty suit. Say what you want about Liz (and plenty have), but she at least has some sort of an idea economics-wise.
    I disagree. I believe it was the TransWoke stuff that did it. That and her poor debate performances
    I think it was all of that combined. She had the opportunity to set the agenda but fluffed it because she wasn't really ready to be PM.
    Yes. She needed a coherent philosophy - just a measly paragraph would have done it. Yet, nothing

    Nonetheless she very nearly made the final two (where she would probably have beaten Sunak). Eight MPs. I am pretty sure she lost more than 8 anti-Woke MPs (see the success of Kemi B) precisely because of the TransWoke business. So, in effect, her opinions on this cost her the top job in the country
    Nonetheless of the last 5 candidates it was Mordaunt who tended to poll best with swing voters, followed by Tugendhat.

    Yes she may have been a bit Woke but she was also a patriot with common sense and a real world early life, her failure to get through to the last 2 may not have saved the Tory majority but has probably cost the Tories the chance of most seats. I can't see either Sunak or Truss beating Starmer unless something dramatic changes
    I could have coped with a "bit Woke". Wokeness in severe moderation can be positive, tho generally these days it is deeply pernicious

    The more I researched Mordaunt the Woker she got. Ugh. And then she lied about it?

    No. She would have lost to Starmer due to a total absence of any philosophy apart from that vague "I'm a patriot and I went to a comp". Truss might not lose. Probably will, but might not
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    @Leon why don't you do your Tour de Britain by ... bike? You have the money to stop at B&Bs, every coffee shop, pub etc. You'll hear and see more, and naturally travel by the back roads. Do long stints by train.

    You were talking about losing weight. And given the huge interest in cycling at the mo, you could write it as revelatory (or conclude it's shite).

    I'm thinking Suffolk and Norfolk by bike in September.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Leon

    couple of things.

    1. A friend of mine, an economist, was travelling somewhere, can't remember where, sadly, and he said that the local newsagent didn't stock Mars Bars because they were too expensive and no one bought them.
    2. I saw a documentary on Lee Selby, who is from Barry and Barry looked pretty shockingly poor.
    3. We keep on hearing from various parties how poverty is endemic throughout the country.

    I would very much like to know, via our very own PB roving reporter whether such poverty does indeed exist with such frequency.

    Of course do your York Minsters and Cotswolds villages and coastal oystershacks.

    But I would be super-interested in the "other" side of the UK.

    Go on Rightmove and find out where the cheapest houses are in a county. That might be eye-opening.

    I'm sure you could go to somewhere like Gwynedd and see a lot of prosperous touristy bits, but there will be more hidden areas too.
    After mentioning in another post that Port Glasgow was a bit on the bleak side...


    You want bleak? Anyone think the guide price is a bit, er optimistic?




    Superb. I might include it on my Tour de Britain
    Believe it or not, that is now in a Tory constituency (Don Valley). What ex-miners of Edlington pit think of that god only knows - although we must be getting to the point where few are still alive.

    If you do dare to go to Edlington, take in nearby Conisbrough Castle while you are there as a respite.
    I was once taken on a tour of N Shields (in Newcastle) by a mate who lived in the area. Whole streets looked like that. Twenty five years ago - so may have changed.

    Poverty safari.

    Which is also the title of very good book on what it is like growing up in places like these.
    Can be risky. I know multiple stories of South African whiteys taking visiting whiteys on township visits, on the grounds You could never do this on your own but I know my way around, and the whole party being de walleted and de rolexed.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:


    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Mordaunt is completely woke and captured by the TRA

    The more I investigated the worse it got. The Tories dodged a bullet
    Although she has clearly figured out that she needs to pretend not to be. This may well explain why she chose to lie about her past decisions rather than to admit to having been on a journey. A better operator would have figured that out, and not tried the easily disprovable lie.
    Indeed

    She is probably the first major politician in the UK to lose out on a massive job for being Woke. In her case, the biggest job. Without this, I reckon she'd be home and hosed as PM

    This in itself is progress. You can no longer be Woke without paying a price. Onwards
    Nah, that's massively overplaying it. She wasn't up to it in a few different ways - ultimately an empty suit. Say what you want about Liz (and plenty have), but she at least has some sort of an idea economics-wise.
    I disagree. I believe it was the TransWoke stuff that did it. That and her poor debate performances
    I think it was all of that combined. She had the opportunity to set the agenda but fluffed it because she wasn't really ready to be PM.
    Yes. She needed a coherent philosophy - just a measly paragraph would have done it. Yet, nothing

    Nonetheless she very nearly made the final two (where she would probably have beaten Sunak). Eight MPs. I am pretty sure she lost more than 8 anti-Woke MPs (see the success of Kemi B) precisely because of the TransWoke business. So, in effect, her opinions on this cost her the top job in the country
    Nonetheless of the last 5 candidates it was Mordaunt who tended to poll best with swing voters, followed by Tugendhat.

    Yes she may have been a bit Woke but she was also a patriot with common sense and a real world early life, her failure to get through to the last 2 may not have saved the Tory majority but has probably cost the Tories the chance of most seats. I can't see either Sunak or Truss beating Starmer unless something dramatic changes
    I could have coped with a "bit Woke". Wokeness in severe moderation can be positive, tho generally these days it is deeply pernicious

    The more I researched Mordaunt the Woker she got. Ugh. And then she lied about it?

    No. She would have lost to Starmer due to a total absence of any philosophy apart from that vague "I'm a patriot and I went to a comp". Truss might not lose. Probably will, but might not
    From a Conservative party strategy view, the issue with Mordaunt being woke is more than just whether or not that viewpoint is popular among swing voters. The hope is not necessarily that woke issues become central to the GE campaign, but that Labour activists rebel against Starmer's attempts to downplay them, and insist on them being central. That then drives a public, nasty civil war between the Labour MPs and activists, which distracts everyone on the left and makes it harder for them to campaign effectively. The Tories then win the election by default. A Tory PM who is in broad agreement with the Labour activists would muck that up, as then both parties would be at war.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    Eabhal said:

    @Leon why don't you do your Tour de Britain by ... bike? You have the money to stop at B&Bs, every coffee shop, pub etc. You'll hear and see more, and naturally travel by the back roads. Do long stints by train.

    You were talking about losing weight. And given the huge interest in cycling at the mo, you could write it as revelatory (or conclude it's shite).

    I'm thinking Suffolk and Norfolk by bike in September.

    Hard no

    But thanks for the concern. As it happens I am 6 pounds down! Still at least 10 to go, but yay

    Interestingly, I've noticed that whether I drink booze or not seems to have no effect on the weight loss: it proceeds according to how much solid food I eat and (to a lesser extent) how much I move around. Which means there really is something to this theory that alcohol calories are "less bio-available" - the body does not store these calories as fat, it burns them first. Or something like that

    Who knew! Good news for alcoholic dieters

  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Mordaunt is completely woke and captured by the TRA

    The more I investigated the worse it got. The Tories dodged a bullet
    Although she has clearly figured out that she needs to pretend not to be. This may well explain why she chose to lie about her past decisions rather than to admit to having been on a journey. A better operator would have figured that out, and not tried the easily disprovable lie.
    Indeed

    She is probably the first major politician in the UK to lose out on a massive job for being Woke. In her case, the biggest job. Without this, I reckon she'd be home and hosed as PM

    This in itself is progress. You can no longer be Woke without paying a price. Onwards
    Nah, that's massively overplaying it. She wasn't up to it in a few different ways - ultimately an empty suit. Say what you want about Liz (and plenty have), but she at least has some sort of an idea economics-wise.
    I disagree. I believe it was the TransWoke stuff that did it. That and her poor debate performances
    I think it was all of that combined. She had the opportunity to set the agenda but fluffed it because she wasn't really ready to be PM.
    Probably a fair analysis, but there is also no doubt that Lizzy's backers did all they could to chop her legs out, and people like dear old @Leon bought all the woke bollox. It is politics though. A tough game.

    I think Tories will regret not supporting her more when they get taken to the cleaners at the next GE. She was a fresh face and it would not have been difficult to say it was a reset. Truss is just continuity Johnson. If she keeps Dorries and Rees Mogg in cabinet (which I expect she will) I will not be returning to vote Conservative, and I suspect there are a lot like me (as suggested in the header)
    Badenoch was a better bet than all of them

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,652

    Really?

    Conservative MP Caroline Nokes has suggested to the BBC that some biological males go through the menopause. "Menopause happens, predominantly to biological women... but there will also be some men who go through it," she said

    https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1552637805972553728

    Better tell the NHS:

    Is there such a thing as a 'male menopause'?

    The "male menopause" (sometimes called the andropause) is an unhelpful term sometimes used in the media.

    This label is misleading because it suggests the symptoms are the result of a sudden drop in testosterone in middle age, similar to what occurs in the female menopause. This is not true.

    Although testosterone levels fall as men age, the decline is steady at less than 2% a year from around the age of 30 to 40, and this is unlikely to cause any problems in itself.


    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/male-menopause/

    Is male menopause when men pause mansplaining long enough for a woman to express her own opinion?

    Male Menopause is a psychological rather then endocrinological phenomenon.

    The male mid-life crisis is more characterised by sports cars, motorbikes, guitars and broken marriages than hot flushes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Leon

    couple of things.

    1. A friend of mine, an economist, was travelling somewhere, can't remember where, sadly, and he said that the local newsagent didn't stock Mars Bars because they were too expensive and no one bought them.
    2. I saw a documentary on Lee Selby, who is from Barry and Barry looked pretty shockingly poor.
    3. We keep on hearing from various parties how poverty is endemic throughout the country.

    I would very much like to know, via our very own PB roving reporter whether such poverty does indeed exist with such frequency.

    Of course do your York Minsters and Cotswolds villages and coastal oystershacks.

    But I would be super-interested in the "other" side of the UK.

    Go on Rightmove and find out where the cheapest houses are in a county. That might be eye-opening.

    I'm sure you could go to somewhere like Gwynedd and see a lot of prosperous touristy bits, but there will be more hidden areas too.
    After mentioning in another post that Port Glasgow was a bit on the bleak side...


    You want bleak? Anyone think the guide price is a bit, er optimistic?




    Superb. I might include it on my Tour de Britain
    Believe it or not, that is now in a Tory constituency (Don Valley). What ex-miners of Edlington pit think of that god only knows - although we must be getting to the point where few are still alive.

    If you do dare to go to Edlington, take in nearby Conisbrough Castle while you are there as a respite.
    I was once taken on a tour of N Shields (in Newcastle) by a mate who lived in the area. Whole streets looked like that. Twenty five years ago - so may have changed.

    Poverty safari.

    Which is also the title of very good book on what it is like growing up in places like these.
    Hmm, an interesting review here

    https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/full/10.3366/scot.2020.0310

    I'm also reminded of the BBC doing a D. Attenborough-style safari doc in Raploch (rough bit of Stirling in the shadow of the Castle craig) decades ago - but did not watch this series or its equivalents set in other burgs so have never decided on the merits or otherwise of this sort of intrusion.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/care-homes-kezia-tv-crews-11174019

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    NEW THREAD
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited July 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/jul/27/commonwealth-games-must-confront-the-truth-about-its-sportswashing-past

    Commonwealth Games must confront the truth about its sportswashing past
    The Games remain an uneasy celebration of ‘common values’ with nations the British empire once exploited


    Tom Daley condemns homophobia across Commonwealth ahead of Games
    Gold medallist diver’s comments come ahead of opening ceremony in Birmingham on Friday


    Quite why it's an issue when these awful countries compete at the Commonwealth Games but isn't an issue when they compete at the Olympic games is a bit of a mystery to me.

    That's so very Guardian. The self-satire is palpable.

    A sanctimonious white * man complaining about how whites have done things to blacks, taking it upon himself to get angry on behalf of black people. Do we call this whitesplaining?

    I wonder if he asked anyone if they wanted him to pontificate on their behalf?

    Hmm. If we believe in self-determination and that Commonwealth Countries are equals, do we get to impose our values a la Tom Daley?

    * Judged from the byline photo.
    I think there's contexts where indignation at the treatment of ethnic group a by ethnic group b is permissible on the part of non members of group a. It would be Godwinian to point to examples

    Anyone would get very slightly tetchy at

    “You have an object lesson of what is in my mind if one looks at cricket,” Cooper said in an interview published in the Observer in March 1929. “Unless you have been and lived among black people, as I have, you can have no idea of what a wonderful moral and disciplinary effect cricket has on the black races entrusted to our charge.”

    For balance here's a POC

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jul/28/athletic-feats-at-commonwealth-games-cannot-distract-from-britains-colonial-sins
    While I respect his viewpoint, the article fell down immediately when he said that the games today just serve a purpose to divert attention from Britain's colonial past. If Britain wanted to divert attention from its colonial past then it wouldn't hold a high profile event within the UK with countries it mostly used to own and I don't think it would be so engaged in the Commonwealth.

    That's the issue with publications like the Guardian in that they cannot see the good in anything. To them, every event that happens, is all a con by the Tories/establishment in the UK/monarchy/big business (delete as appropriate) to try and screw the working class and oppress people of colour.

    There's a lot of screwing the working class and racism across society anyway, you don't have to apply it to every single thing in life just to make it seem like you're "the thinking person's newspaper".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:


    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Mordaunt is completely woke and captured by the TRA

    The more I investigated the worse it got. The Tories dodged a bullet
    Although she has clearly figured out that she needs to pretend not to be. This may well explain why she chose to lie about her past decisions rather than to admit to having been on a journey. A better operator would have figured that out, and not tried the easily disprovable lie.
    Indeed

    She is probably the first major politician in the UK to lose out on a massive job for being Woke. In her case, the biggest job. Without this, I reckon she'd be home and hosed as PM

    This in itself is progress. You can no longer be Woke without paying a price. Onwards
    Nah, that's massively overplaying it. She wasn't up to it in a few different ways - ultimately an empty suit. Say what you want about Liz (and plenty have), but she at least has some sort of an idea economics-wise.
    I disagree. I believe it was the TransWoke stuff that did it. That and her poor debate performances
    I think it was all of that combined. She had the opportunity to set the agenda but fluffed it because she wasn't really ready to be PM.
    Yes. She needed a coherent philosophy - just a measly paragraph would have done it. Yet, nothing

    Nonetheless she very nearly made the final two (where she would probably have beaten Sunak). Eight MPs. I am pretty sure she lost more than 8 anti-Woke MPs (see the success of Kemi B) precisely because of the TransWoke business. So, in effect, her opinions on this cost her the top job in the country
    Nonetheless of the last 5 candidates it was Mordaunt who tended to poll best with swing voters, followed by Tugendhat.

    Yes she may have been a bit Woke but she was also a patriot with common sense and a real world early life, her failure to get through to the last 2 may not have saved the Tory majority but has probably cost the Tories the chance of most seats. I can't see either Sunak or Truss beating Starmer unless something dramatic changes
    I could have coped with a "bit Woke". Wokeness in severe moderation can be positive, tho generally these days it is deeply pernicious

    The more I researched Mordaunt the Woker she got. Ugh. And then she lied about it?

    No. She would have lost to Starmer due to a total absence of any philosophy apart from that vague "I'm a patriot and I went to a comp". Truss might not lose. Probably will, but might not
    Mordaunt had more charisma and warmth than Truss, even if Truss is probably brighter. Truss is also an ex Republican LD and pretty socially liberal herself.

    While Truss has improved over the campaign I remain of the view she is too Thatcherite for the redwall and too close to Boris and the ERG for the blue wall
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    @Leon why don't you do your Tour de Britain by ... bike? You have the money to stop at B&Bs, every coffee shop, pub etc. You'll hear and see more, and naturally travel by the back roads. Do long stints by train.

    You were talking about losing weight. And given the huge interest in cycling at the mo, you could write it as revelatory (or conclude it's shite).

    I'm thinking Suffolk and Norfolk by bike in September.

    Hard no

    But thanks for the concern. As it happens I am 6 pounds down! Still at least 10 to go, but yay

    Interestingly, I've noticed that whether I drink booze or not seems to have no effect on the weight loss: it proceeds according to how much solid food I eat and (to a lesser extent) how much I move around. Which means there really is something to this theory that alcohol calories are "less bio-available" - the body does not store these calories as fat, it burns them first. Or something like that

    Who knew! Good news for alcoholic dieters

    "I cycled through Jaywick - we were right to leave the EU"
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    new thread

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Manchin for once appears to have punched the Republicans rather than the Democrats.
    If they now get BBB through the Senate, this cold be quite consequential for the November elections (the 'if' is significant, though).

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/icymi-18
    In case you didn’t notice I wanted to draw your attention to one thing. While Senator Schumer and the White House were trying to revive some skinny version of the BBB and climate legislation with Joe Manchin Senator McConnell tried to scuttle those talks with a threat. He would pull GOP support from the China competition/CHIPs bill if the Democrats did not drop those negotiations. As it happened, Manchin scuttled the deal so the threat became moot. Then the CHIPs bill passed the Senate yesterday and then within like an hour – voila – the Manchin deal was back and somehow finalized. Senate Republicans were clearly pissed but the bill had already passed the Senate.

    It certainly seems like Senate Democrats pulled a fast one on their Republican colleagues. As surprising as it may seem, it’s hard to see how Manchin wasn’t in on it at some level. House Republicans certainly seem to think so....
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:


    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Endillion said:

    Leon said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Mordaunt is completely woke and captured by the TRA

    The more I investigated the worse it got. The Tories dodged a bullet
    Although she has clearly figured out that she needs to pretend not to be. This may well explain why she chose to lie about her past decisions rather than to admit to having been on a journey. A better operator would have figured that out, and not tried the easily disprovable lie.
    Indeed

    She is probably the first major politician in the UK to lose out on a massive job for being Woke. In her case, the biggest job. Without this, I reckon she'd be home and hosed as PM

    This in itself is progress. You can no longer be Woke without paying a price. Onwards
    Nah, that's massively overplaying it. She wasn't up to it in a few different ways - ultimately an empty suit. Say what you want about Liz (and plenty have), but she at least has some sort of an idea economics-wise.
    I disagree. I believe it was the TransWoke stuff that did it. That and her poor debate performances
    I think it was all of that combined. She had the opportunity to set the agenda but fluffed it because she wasn't really ready to be PM.
    Yes. She needed a coherent philosophy - just a measly paragraph would have done it. Yet, nothing

    Nonetheless she very nearly made the final two (where she would probably have beaten Sunak). Eight MPs. I am pretty sure she lost more than 8 anti-Woke MPs (see the success of Kemi B) precisely because of the TransWoke business. So, in effect, her opinions on this cost her the top job in the country
    Nonetheless of the last 5 candidates it was Mordaunt who tended to poll best with swing voters, followed by Tugendhat.

    Yes she may have been a bit Woke but she was also a patriot with common sense and a real world early life, her failure to get through to the last 2 may not have saved the Tory majority but has probably cost the Tories the chance of most seats. I can't see either Sunak or Truss beating Starmer unless something dramatic changes
    I could have coped with a "bit Woke". Wokeness in severe moderation can be positive, tho generally these days it is deeply pernicious

    The more I researched Mordaunt the Woker she got. Ugh. And then she lied about it?

    No. She would have lost to Starmer due to a total absence of any philosophy apart from that vague "I'm a patriot and I went to a comp". Truss might not lose. Probably will, but might not
    She is going to lose big time, and I do not take any pleasure from the thought of a wokish Labour Party in government. When the Tory Party looks back and realises it has got years in opposition, exacerbated by proportional representation, regulatory alignment to the EU and wokery at every turn of public life and punitive taxes for businesses and everyone who has aspiration, they might reflect on how stupid they were in appointing a clown as leader and then replacing him with someone only slightly less worse.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    148grss - The ideology of the "trans" movement seems inconsistent with the theory of evolution. But perhaps you can explain away that inconsistency.

    (In my opinion, the theory of evolution is quite good at explaining many things about human behavior, good and bad, though it is unfashionable to say so.)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Eabhal said:

    @Leon why don't you do your Tour de Britain by ... bike? You have the money to stop at B&Bs, every coffee shop, pub etc. You'll hear and see more, and naturally travel by the back roads. Do long stints by train.

    You were talking about losing weight. And given the huge interest in cycling at the mo, you could write it as revelatory (or conclude it's shite).

    I'm thinking Suffolk and Norfolk by bike in September.

    Great suggestion. The great thing about Suffolk and Norfolk, is that while they are not as spectacular as Devon and Cornwall, they are beautiful and they are not afflicted by the madding crowd, even in the height of summer.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Gay issues and trans issues are not one and the same. Witness the discrimination against gay women by some on the trans side or the redefinition of homosexuality by Stonewall as same gender attraction rather than same sex attraction.

    Conflating the two is wrong.
    I agree: wrong. A lot of the people cheering on the Tavistock decision on Twitter are lesbian - which I expected - but also gay men. The latter is unexpected (to me). I am still trying to understand it, and it seems to be what you say: they were trying to redefine "sexual attraction" in a form deemed hostile by gay men

    WTF! Such madness

    Also, Mordaunt's twin brother is trans activist, not just gay

    From my experience, and the data, the vast majority of gay and lesbian people are in agreement with trans rights, and their inclusion in our community. There is a small, vocal, minority that disagrees with that.

    All we need to do is look at the increasing attacks on LGBT+ people to know happens when you demand to police trans people and their bodies.

    Cis women who do not conform to societies view of femininity get attacked: https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787

    Or get told their disabilities aren't real and told to use the mens: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/05/20/ms-exeter-queer-couple-disability/

    Hate crimes across the entire community have gone up massively in the last 8 years: https://eachother.org.uk/significant-rise-in-anti-lgbtq-hate-crime-since-2015/

    Homophobia is as much about gender as it is sexuality - the number of times I was told being attracted to men makes me "not a real man", the amount of harassment of effeminate men and butch women, stem from the same strict demand that people have to perform their gender roles.

    There tends to be a claim that trans ideology argues that effeminate men or butch women are, de facto, trans, and destroying gender non conforming gay people. Which is absurd. Go to any queer space and talk to the people there and we will discuss the nuances of our gender and sexuality, and that there is a lot more shades of grey than black or white about both.

    Trans people have been central to the community since the Stonewall Riots started, in part, by a transwoman.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Gay issues and trans issues are not one and the same. Witness the discrimination against gay women by some on the trans side or the redefinition of homosexuality by Stonewall as same gender attraction rather than same sex attraction.

    Conflating the two is wrong.
    Absolutely wrong. A lot of the people cheering on the Tavistock decision on Twitter are lesbian - which I expected - but also gay men. The latter is unexpected (to me). I am still trying to understand it, and it seems to be what you say: they were trying to redefine "sexual attraction" in a form deemed hostile by gay men

    WTF! Such madness

    Also, Mordaunt's twin brother is trans activist, not just gay

    Yes - it's never been obvious to me why LGB got lumped in with T. It seems particularly inimical to the interests of children unsure of their own sexuality that organisations like Mermaids are suggesting to them that they change their sex to fit. ISTR this is the approach the Islamic Republic of Iran took 30 years ago.
    To keep the money flowing in - that's why they did it.

    Mermaids are gruesome. They worked closely with the 2 disgraced Webberley doctors.

    Iran still does this. It gets rid of homosexuals by either hanging them or forcing them to surgically transition. See also what the Tavistock whistleblowers said about their policies amounting to "transing away the gay".

    One reason for the hostility of some gay men to TR activism is what they consider to be the inbuilt homophobia and stereotyping of gender ideology ie the assumption that if you are a boy who likes dolls and doesn't like football, say, you must really be a girl rather than a more "feminine" boy or gay. Pluz the fact that gay men are not sexually attracted to female bodies no matter what gender their owners may feel themselves to be.

    Incidentally this long article by the lawyer, Peter Daly, involved in the Forstater and Bailey cases is very well worth reading - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/morality-plays-lessons-forstater-peter-daly
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    148grss - The ideology of the "trans" movement seems inconsistent with the theory of evolution. But perhaps you can explain away that inconsistency.

    (In my opinion, the theory of evolution is quite good at explaining many things about human behavior, good and bad, though it is unfashionable to say so.)

    What about people being transgender is inconsistent with evolution?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Gay issues and trans issues are not one and the same. Witness the discrimination against gay women by some on the trans side or the redefinition of homosexuality by Stonewall as same gender attraction rather than same sex attraction.

    Conflating the two is wrong.
    I agree: wrong. A lot of the people cheering on the Tavistock decision on Twitter are lesbian - which I expected - but also gay men. The latter is unexpected (to me). I am still trying to understand it, and it seems to be what you say: they were trying to redefine "sexual attraction" in a form deemed hostile by gay men

    WTF! Such madness

    Also, Mordaunt's twin brother is trans activist, not just gay

    From my experience, and the data, the vast majority of gay and lesbian people are in agreement with trans rights, and their inclusion in our community. There is a small, vocal, minority that disagrees with that.

    All we need to do is look at the increasing attacks on LGBT+ people to know happens when you demand to police trans people and their bodies.

    Cis women who do not conform to societies view of femininity get attacked: https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787

    Or get told their disabilities aren't real and told to use the mens: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/05/20/ms-exeter-queer-couple-disability/

    Hate crimes across the entire community have gone up massively in the last 8 years: https://eachother.org.uk/significant-rise-in-anti-lgbtq-hate-crime-since-2015/

    Homophobia is as much about gender as it is sexuality - the number of times I was told being attracted to men makes me "not a real man", the amount of harassment of effeminate men and butch women, stem from the same strict demand that people have to perform their gender roles.

    There tends to be a claim that trans ideology argues that effeminate men or butch women are, de facto, trans, and destroying gender non conforming gay people. Which is absurd. Go to any queer space and talk to the people there and we will discuss the nuances of our gender and sexuality, and that there is a lot more shades of grey than black or white about both.

    Trans people have been central to the community since the Stonewall Riots started, in part, by a transwoman.
    Marsha P Johnson was gay. Not trans.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm tempted to do a Tour de Britain

    Go and see all these great UK cities I haven't visited in many years: Birmingham, Liverpool, Newcastle, Sheffield, Leeds, Glasgow

    I've been to Bangkok probably a dozen times since 2010, yet I haven't been to any of the cities listed above (I have been to Manc, Edinburgh, Bristol)

    That's an idea. See it for myself. Are there really "Muslim no-go zones" in Bradford or Luton or Rotherham? (I very seriously doubt it, but I've never been, so I can't say for sure). How bad is the drugs stuff in Gorbals? Is Salford really "hip"??

    Kind of like Orwell's Road to Wigan Pier except with better wine and probably not quite as good observation, TBH

    Maybe I will find the Worst town in Britain. What is it?? West Bromwich? Watford? Any of them ones near Glasgow?

    NEWENT?

    I think the Gorbals will horrify you but not in the way anticipated. It's now now a fairly anodyne area of newbuild apartment blocks and a constructed shopping area and pub. The Brazen Head across the road might give you a whiff of the old days but don't wear your cool, trendy Union Jack leisure wear whatever you do.
    Serious question. Where should I go in Scotland for the unexpected, in terms of best and worst?

    I know Scotland rather well - actually a lot better than northern England. I've been to Scotland a dozen times in ten years, yet Yorkshire and Lancashire etc almost zero

    I know Edinburgh well, Glasgow quite well... all the lovely wilderness bits really well

    Don't know the Borders or the east coast (south of Wick)
    Brechin cathedral

    Muirton housing estate, Perth
    Brechin! Muirton! Lovely. Tack
    Been wracking my brain trying to think of the worst bit of Edinburgh, and failing miserably. Can name lots of shite buildings, but I think you are more looking for districts. Decades since I’ve been in Buckstone (between Morningside and Fairmilehead), but it was fairly horrific Wimpey Home land in the 80s, and that rubbish hasn’t aged well anywhere.

    Best bit of Glasgow? Burrell Collection?
    Where's the bit of E'boro that Welsh describes in trainspotting? Is that Leith?

    Tho I remember it being windswept, gritty but still quite picturesque rather than grim

    Scotland does have some shite towns tho. The old mining towns around Glasgow are some of the most depressing on earth. And this is not a sectarian jibe, rUK has equally shitty towns (my God, parts of S Wales or north of Brum), and Scotland also has some of the most majestic scenery on earth (not true of north Birmingham)
    Yep, Leith but also Pilton IIRC are Trainspotting land. It'll take in the peripheral estates to the west, as well as old Leith proper. There are tours (!).
    It is almost a cliche, but taking the west coast line to Oban, a few islands (Mull, Iona, Staffa), south Argyll and some Puffin Therapy (almost over for this year) is hard to beat. Avoid the best known mountains and honeypot attractions Such as Skye, Ben Nevis etc unless you like crowds.

    You could consider following Dr Johnson and Boswell's footsteps and seeing the impact of the modern world on places they visited.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Gay issues and trans issues are not one and the same. Witness the discrimination against gay women by some on the trans side or the redefinition of homosexuality by Stonewall as same gender attraction rather than same sex attraction.

    Conflating the two is wrong.
    Absolutely wrong. A lot of the people cheering on the Tavistock decision on Twitter are lesbian - which I expected - but also gay men. The latter is unexpected (to me). I am still trying to understand it, and it seems to be what you say: they were trying to redefine "sexual attraction" in a form deemed hostile by gay men

    WTF! Such madness

    Also, Mordaunt's twin brother is trans activist, not just gay

    Yes - it's never been obvious to me why LGB got lumped in with T. It seems particularly inimical to the interests of children unsure of their own sexuality that organisations like Mermaids are suggesting to them that they change their sex to fit. ISTR this is the approach the Islamic Republic of Iran took 30 years ago.
    Because homophobia is as much about gender stereotyping as it is about who we're attracted to. Attacks on gay men have always been about them being too effeminate and sissy and not real men, attacks on lesbians were they were ugly and man hating and just needed a good shagging, etc etc. The demands of society that a man be x and a woman be y bleeds into sexuality.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    I'm tempted to do a Tour de Britain

    Go and see all these great UK cities I haven't visited in many years: Birmingham, Liverpool, Newcastle, Sheffield, Leeds, Glasgow

    I've been to Bangkok probably a dozen times since 2010, yet I haven't been to any of the cities listed above (I have been to Manc, Edinburgh, Bristol)

    That's an idea. See it for myself. Are there really "Muslim no-go zones" in Bradford or Luton or Rotherham? (I very seriously doubt it, but I've never been, so I can't say for sure). How bad is the drugs stuff in Gorbals? Is Salford really "hip"??

    Kind of like Orwell's Road to Wigan Pier except with better wine and probably not quite as good observation, TBH

    Maybe I will find the Worst town in Britain. What is it?? West Bromwich? Watford? Any of them ones near Glasgow?

    NEWENT?

    Camden?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,799
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Badenoch on the Tavistock announcement

    I can’t state enough how profound this decision is 💥 There’s lots I can say now I’m no longer equalities minister -personal testimonies heard of destroyed childhoods, protecting whistleblowing clinicians from endless harassment by twitter activists (1/2)

    ...the battles fought to get the review going, the smearing of women who had serious concerns as terfs and bigots, how this links to wider problems such the credulity of some MPs who allow policy-making to be subverted by groups eg @stonewalluk in exchange for retweets. (2/2)


    https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1552640941160370176

    I guess she means Mordaunt here?

    On the one hand, I think it's an unfair comment - Penny's twin brother is gay, so these issues are clearly close to her heart. On the other hand, she really does seem to have been captured by the Stonewall agenda.
    Gay issues and trans issues are not one and the same. Witness the discrimination against gay women by some on the trans side or the redefinition of homosexuality by Stonewall as same gender attraction rather than same sex attraction.

    Conflating the two is wrong.
    Absolutely wrong. A lot of the people cheering on the Tavistock decision on Twitter are lesbian - which I expected - but also gay men. The latter is unexpected (to me). I am still trying to understand it, and it seems to be what you say: they were trying to redefine "sexual attraction" in a form deemed hostile by gay men

    WTF! Such madness

    Also, Mordaunt's twin brother is trans activist, not just gay

    Yes - it's never been obvious to me why LGB got lumped in with T. It seems particularly inimical to the interests of children unsure of their own sexuality that organisations like Mermaids are suggesting to them that they change their sex to fit. ISTR this is the approach the Islamic Republic of Iran took 30 years ago.
    To keep the money flowing in - that's why they did it.

    Mermaids are gruesome. They worked closely with the 2 disgraced Webberley doctors.

    Iran still does this. It gets rid of homosexuals by either hanging them or forcing them to surgically transition. See also what the Tavistock whistleblowers said about their policies amounting to "transing away the gay".

    One reason for the hostility of some gay men to TR activism is what they consider to be the inbuilt homophobia and stereotyping of gender ideology ie the assumption that if you are a boy who likes dolls and doesn't like football, say, you must really be a girl rather than a more "feminine" boy or gay. Pluz the fact that gay men are not sexually attracted to female bodies no matter what gender their owners may feel themselves to be.

    Incidentally this long article by the lawyer, Peter Daly, involved in the Forstater and Bailey cases is very well worth reading - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/morality-plays-lessons-forstater-peter-daly
    Yes, agreed - it really riles me the implication that there are only two ways to be - archetypal male, archetypal female - and that trans activists have generously given us a handful more on the non-binary spectrum. It sounds trite, but just be yourself. You don't have to choose an identity from a menu, and you don't have to commit to surgery to do so.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    7% seen a UFO, are they talking about BJ?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    On thread, just an observation, and I have not read any of the previous comments, but I think Truss is winning because people know what they would get with Sunak.
This discussion has been closed.