Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

What do the “Turnip Taliban” think of their MP now? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,163
edited July 2022 in General
imageWhat do the “Turnip Taliban” think of their MP now? – politicalbetting.com

The hot betting favourite for the next PM, Liz Truss, first had a PB thread about her in 2009 before she even became an MP.

Read the full story here

«134

Comments

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    First
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited July 2022
    And on topic they will love her now. She is the out there non-Rishi candidate. What's not to like.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited July 2022
    Third.
    What are the tabloids referred to as now?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    edited July 2022
    Looks like her constituency association were 13 years ahead of the rest of us in not rating her.
    Edit - fourth. If Aberdeen can achieve those dizzy heights this season I’ll be amazed!
    Further edit. Some people obviously seem to rate her. No accounting for taste.
  • What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.
  • Whatever happened to @bunnco our man on the spot?

    Great to see Truss doing well, she deserves it.

    Also amusing that we have some of our own Turnip Taliban like @Nigel_Foremain that still can't stand her.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    I love the way that that picture of the sign for Swaffham Conservative Club suggests it is some dodgy joint where the girls hanging around the bar aren't there because they like the decor.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    And on topic they will love her now. She is the out there non-Rishi candidate. What's not to like.

    Quite a lot

    On the + side she will be my first 100/1 shot to come in
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    News flash - King County Elections reports that it has received my returned ballot for August 2, 2022 primary, that my signature has been verified and ballot accepted for tabulation.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited July 2022
    What happened to the PB2 channel?

    If you want to read the comments on the 2009 thread they're available here:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20091110153842/https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/03/will-dave-prevail-against-the-norfolk-nineteen/
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    She folded like a cheap suit to get some trade deals which screwed UK farmers , failed to defend judges against disgraceful attacks from the right wing press and is now going to embark on forcing through a bill which breaks international law .

    Objectively she’s done bugger all in terms of positive achievements but in this alternate university which the Tories live in she’s a marvelous candidate for PM .
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Whatever happened to @bunnco our man on the spot?

    Great to see Truss doing well, she deserves it.

    Also amusing that we have some of our own Turnip Taliban like @Nigel_Foremain that still can't stand her.

    I think Barty loves Lizzy....

    :wink:
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Dominic Cummings “reports” that Liz Truss’s campaign is being run be arch-arch-arch remainer Roland Rudd.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Sounds like PB inc is calling this 1/2 shot home and hosed?
  • Barty was doing so well for a few months but he’s regressed I’m afraid.

    This is Johnson all over again
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked

    It will be mandatory health insurance next. All those US companies wanting in to UK healthcare...
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    SA batting like England so far.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    We have an unholy triumvirate in government at the moment, the clown, fishy and cheesy

    :smiley:
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    Sounds like PB inc is calling this 1/2 shot home and hosed?

    Well honestly Rishi is such a dork, what was he thinking not lending votes to Penny?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    edited July 2022

    Whatever happened to @bunnco our man on the spot?

    Great to see Truss doing well, she deserves it.

    Also amusing that we have some of our own Turnip Taliban like @Nigel_Foremain that still can't stand her.

    I think Barty loves Lizzy....

    :wink:
    Someone has to...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.43 Liz Truss 70%
    3.35 Rishi Sunak 30%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.43 Liz Truss 70%
    3.3 Rishi Sunak 30%
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    Her Wikipedia page is quite detailed. I'd put the highlights of her ministerial career as being:

    1. Numerous trade deals when International Trade Secretary.
    2. As Secretary of State for the Environment she launched a 10-year bee and pollinator strategy in November 2014. After a quick look I haven't yet been able to find information on whether that has been a success, but there should be some about somewhere. I'll keep looking.
    3. She was named Road Safety Parliamentarian of the month while a backbencher for her campaigning to improve road design in her constituency.

    Everything else mentioned is either incomplete, or subjective, or part of the normal irrelevant treadmill of politics. Not sure how that compares to other politicians. I wasn't expecting to find much.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    Not a lot. What has Sunak achieved. He has spent tens of billions more than he taxed. He stopped for about 20 seconds and the papers screamed that he was a millionaire with a green card and a billionaire non-dom wife. Then he started again and everyone loved him. Then the good people decided that he was the candidate to bring back morality to the Tories, because he opposed Johnson for, again, about 20 seconds.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262
    edited July 2022

    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked

    Found this




  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    It's a good question, but there must be something there because you don't get to be in the Cabinet under three so very different PMs unless there's something there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    Driver said:

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    It's a good question, but there must be something there because you don't get to be in the Cabinet under three so very different PMs unless there's something there.
    Loyalty, flexibility, and lack of principles?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked

    How many of the 332 000 long waiters are of working age is the key missing stat there. I suspect fewer than half, but it is a guess.

    The two big missing groups of workers post lockdown are over fifties males (mostly early retirements?) and thirty something women (perhaps enjoying time at home with the families?).

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    Andy_JS said:

    What happened to the PB2 channel?

    If you want to read the comments on the 2009 thread they're available here:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20091110153842/https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/03/will-dave-prevail-against-the-norfolk-nineteen/

    Fascinating to see the comments about David Cameron weaselling out of his referendum pledge — on Lisbon!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    Her Wikipedia page is quite detailed. I'd put the highlights of her ministerial career as being:

    1. Numerous trade deals when International Trade Secretary.
    2. As Secretary of State for the Environment she launched a 10-year bee and pollinator strategy in November 2014. After a quick look I haven't yet been able to find information on whether that has been a success, but there should be some about somewhere. I'll keep looking.
    3. She was named Road Safety Parliamentarian of the month while a backbencher for her campaigning to improve road design in her constituency.

    Everything else mentioned is either incomplete, or subjective, or part of the normal irrelevant treadmill of politics. Not sure how that compares to other politicians. I wasn't expecting to find much.
    According to her critics she has generally been kept away from policy-heavy roles since that stint in Education.

    Hence, Lord Chancellor, Trade, Foreign Office.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    Her Wikipedia page is quite detailed. I'd put the highlights of her ministerial career as being:

    1. Numerous trade deals when International Trade Secretary.
    2. As Secretary of State for the Environment she launched a 10-year bee and pollinator strategy in November 2014. After a quick look I haven't yet been able to find information on whether that has been a success, but there should be some about somewhere. I'll keep looking.
    3. She was named Road Safety Parliamentarian of the month while a backbencher for her campaigning to improve road design in her constituency.

    Everything else mentioned is either incomplete, or subjective, or part of the normal irrelevant treadmill of politics. Not sure how that compares to other politicians. I wasn't expecting to find much.
    #2 explains the buzzzzzz re: Lizzzzz. Queen Bee of HMG.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    IanB2 said:

    Driver said:

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    It's a good question, but there must be something there because you don't get to be in the Cabinet under three so very different PMs unless there's something there.
    Loyalty, flexibility, and lack of principles?
    Sounds like the woman I want!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked

    How many of the 332 000 long waiters are of working age is the key missing stat there. I suspect fewer than half, but it is a guess.

    The two big missing groups of workers post lockdown are over fifties males (mostly early retirements?) and thirty something women (perhaps enjoying time at home with the families?).

    Yes I don’t believe it’s ill health.
    It’s people taking the opportunity to avoid working and enjoy parenthood or retirement - and who is to say they are wrong?

    Inflation may encourage them back, though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked

    How many of the 332 000 long waiters are of working age is the key missing stat there. I suspect fewer than half, but it is a guess.

    The two big missing groups of workers post lockdown are over fifties males (mostly early retirements?) and thirty something women (perhaps enjoying time at home with the families?).

    There's an archived version of the article here:
    https://archive.ph/vTxhu

    I'm not convinced it justifies the claim made, but I'd be interested in others' views.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked

    How many of the 332 000 long waiters are of working age is the key missing stat there. I suspect fewer than half, but it is a guess.

    The two big missing groups of workers post lockdown are over fifties males (mostly early retirements?) and thirty something women (perhaps enjoying time at home with the families?).

    Yes, I think this is an early retirement thing to be honest. And the graphs are a bit fuzzy in the sense that say in US 26% of workforce are inactive but the graph is falling post covid whereas we are only 21 but rising. And France is 27 (home of early retirement). But at first glance our graph looks shit.

    Is this a baby boomer thing? I am of an age where every conversation with a get-together of my fellow 55+ mates and old colleagues turns to the topic of early retirement.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    When you are sitting on significant property wealth, perhaps even including a buy-to-let or two, why the fuck would you work unless it’s genuinely engaging?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    Whatever happened to @bunnco our man on the spot?

    Great to see Truss doing well, she deserves it.

    Also amusing that we have some of our own Turnip Taliban like @Nigel_Foremain that still can't stand her.

    I think Barty loves Lizzy....

    :wink:
    Well the best way to get over a crush is to succumb to the next one asap.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    Her Wikipedia page is quite detailed. I'd put the highlights of her ministerial career as being:

    1. Numerous trade deals when International Trade Secretary.
    2. As Secretary of State for the Environment she launched a 10-year bee and pollinator strategy in November 2014. After a quick look I haven't yet been able to find information on whether that has been a success, but there should be some about somewhere. I'll keep looking.
    3. She was named Road Safety Parliamentarian of the month while a backbencher for her campaigning to improve road design in her constituency.

    Everything else mentioned is either incomplete, or subjective, or part of the normal irrelevant treadmill of politics. Not sure how that compares to other politicians. I wasn't expecting to find much.
    Sounds like she will win on a landslide then.
  • novanova Posts: 690
    edited July 2022

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked

    How many of the 332 000 long waiters are of working age is the key missing stat there. I suspect fewer than half, but it is a guess.

    The two big missing groups of workers post lockdown are over fifties males (mostly early retirements?) and thirty something women (perhaps enjoying time at home with the families?).

    Yes, I think this is an early retirement thing to be honest. And the graphs are a bit fuzzy in the sense that say in US 26% of workforce are inactive but the graph is falling post covid whereas we are only 21 but rising. And France is 27 (home of early retirement). But at first glance our graph looks shit.

    Is this a baby boomer thing? I am of an age where every conversation with a get-together of my fellow 55+ mates and old colleagues turns to the topic of early retirement.

    Doesn't the graph of the comparison with Spain show that it's mostly long term sick, with a smaller number of retirees?

    The long-term sickness figure is 309,000, while retirees looks to be around 100,000.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,004
    edited July 2022
    Barcelona subscribes to the Liz Truss branch of economics....

    Overnight Barcelona have sold 15% of their TV rights for the next 25 years, receiving €315million. They'd already sold 10% a few weeks ago for €207million. So yeah, they've got a bit of cash...

    So pay down their 1bn in debt, nah, spend it all on a load of player in their 30s with zero resale value.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked

    How many of the 332 000 long waiters are of working age is the key missing stat there. I suspect fewer than half, but it is a guess.

    The two big missing groups of workers post lockdown are over fifties males (mostly early retirements?) and thirty something women (perhaps enjoying time at home with the families?).

    Yes, I think this is an early retirement thing to be honest. And the graphs are a bit fuzzy in the sense that say in US 26% of workforce are inactive but the graph is falling post covid whereas we are only 21 but rising. And France is 27 (home of early retirement). But at first glance our graph looks shit.

    Is this a baby boomer thing? I am of an age where every conversation with a get-together of my fellow 55+ mates and old colleagues turns to the topic of early retirement.

    I am sort of retired after being made redundant during the pandemic. I don't know but suspect a lot of it is older people finding it harder to get new jobs. We are less strong and fit for manual work; not thought up to date with the latest tech fads.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Bannon GUILTY :):)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Just topped up a nibble on Sunak at those prices.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Dominic Cummings “reports” that Liz Truss’s campaign is being run be arch-arch-arch remainer Roland Rudd.

    The name is familiar... I can't quite place it though.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2022

    Dominic Cummings “reports” that Liz Truss’s campaign is being run be arch-arch-arch remainer Roland Rudd.

    The name is familiar... I can't quite place it though.
    PR veteran, ballser-up of the Second Ref campaign, brother of Amber.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,633

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    When you are sitting on significant property wealth, perhaps even including a buy-to-let or two, why the fuck would you work unless it’s genuinely engaging?

    I am not the only one of my colleagues noticing that if I stay working I get 4.5% pay rise, if I retire I get 9.4% (CPI). Keeping working makes no financial sense, indeed I may well shortly retire and return part time after the required 28 day gap.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    So he is hoping people don’t vote early.
    And that anyone will pay attention to the hustings.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,004
    edited July 2022

    Dominic Cummings “reports” that Liz Truss’s campaign is being run be arch-arch-arch remainer Roland Rudd.

    The name is familiar... I can't quite place it though.
    PR veteran, ballser-up of the Second Ref campaign, brother of Amber.
    Isn't he also a well known Labour supporter / member. Seems unlikely he would run a Tory campaign.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    alex_ said:

    Bannon GUILTY :):)

    What sentence could he get?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Reality check: it would have to be something so discreditable and disgusting that it put off significant numbers of we-want-Boris-backers. I can't imagine what that would look like, casn you?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    Have we done this one earlier? It is potentially explosive surely? Or coloration is not causation?


    "With direct impacts of Covid ruled out, the most plausible remaining explanation is grim: we may be witnessing the collapse of the NHS, as hundreds of thousands of patients, unable to access timely care, see their condition worsen to the point of being unable to work. The 332,000 people who have been waiting more than a year for hospital treatment in Britain is a close numerical match for the 309,000 now missing from the labour force due to long-term sickness."

    Chronic illness makes UK workforce the sickest in developed world
    https://www.ft.com/content/c333a6d8-0a56-488c-aeb8-eeb1c05a34d2?sharetype=blocked

    How many of the 332 000 long waiters are of working age is the key missing stat there. I suspect fewer than half, but it is a guess.

    The two big missing groups of workers post lockdown are over fifties males (mostly early retirements?) and thirty something women (perhaps enjoying time at home with the families?).

    The FT claim their analysis is ages 15-64.

    (Which of course means that students are within their age group.

    The number of HE students in the UK increased from 2.41 million to 2.66 million between 2019/20 and 2021/22, with approx 80% being full time.
    )

    His analysis needs a lot of unpacking.

    https://archive.ph/vTxhu
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    So he is hoping people don’t vote early.
    And that anyone will pay attention to the hustings.
    I think one of our august gang posted yesterday that some obscure rule means that members can vote and then change their minds and then vote again and again and it will be the final vote that counts.

    Sounds bonkers, so given we are in 2020s it is probably true.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    Her Wikipedia page is quite detailed. I'd put the highlights of her ministerial career as being:

    1. Numerous trade deals when International Trade Secretary.
    2. As Secretary of State for the Environment she launched a 10-year bee and pollinator strategy in November 2014. After a quick look I haven't yet been able to find information on whether that has been a success, but there should be some about somewhere. I'll keep looking.
    3. She was named Road Safety Parliamentarian of the month while a backbencher for her campaigning to improve road design in her constituency.

    Everything else mentioned is either incomplete, or subjective, or part of the normal irrelevant treadmill of politics. Not sure how that compares to other politicians. I wasn't expecting to find much.
    Sounds like she will win on a landslide then.
    Liz Truss's trade deals might not be as favourable as we might have hoped but they probably mean she has done more to shore up the post-Brexit settlement than any other minister.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,004
    SA 27-5

    Good job England, I mean SA, bat deep....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    So he is hoping people don’t vote early.
    And that anyone will pay attention to the hustings.
    I think one of our august gang posted yesterday that some obscure rule means that members can vote and then change their minds and then vote again and again and it will be the final vote that counts.

    Sounds bonkers, so given we are in 2020s it is probably true.
    Not again and again. They can vote both by post and Online.
    But I do think they can do so repeatedly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    So he is hoping people don’t vote early.
    And that anyone will pay attention to the hustings.
    "Robert Hayward, a Tory peer and elections expert...

    “not convinced” the result was a foregone conclusion."

    I'm nibbling at 3.35 and I will go more if Sunak hits 4.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    SA 27-5

    Good job England, I mean SA, bat deep....

    Starting to rain, still 10 overs short of an official game.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    So he is hoping people don’t vote early.
    And that anyone will pay attention to the hustings.
    I think one of our august gang posted yesterday that some obscure rule means that members can vote and then change their minds and then vote again and again and it will be the final vote that counts.

    Sounds bonkers, so given we are in 2020s it is probably true.
    Not again and again. They can vote both by post and Online.
    But I do think they can do so repeatedly.
    They can't do so repeatedly??
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    Her Wikipedia page is quite detailed. I'd put the highlights of her ministerial career as being:

    1. Numerous trade deals when International Trade Secretary.
    2. As Secretary of State for the Environment she launched a 10-year bee and pollinator strategy in November 2014. After a quick look I haven't yet been able to find information on whether that has been a success, but there should be some about somewhere. I'll keep looking.
    3. She was named Road Safety Parliamentarian of the month while a backbencher for her campaigning to improve road design in her constituency.

    Everything else mentioned is either incomplete, or subjective, or part of the normal irrelevant treadmill of politics. Not sure how that compares to other politicians. I wasn't expecting to find much.
    This progress report from FoE is a bit mixed on the pollinator strategy, but it sounds like they don't regard it as a complete failure, which is relatively high praise.

    https://policy.friendsoftheearth.uk/opinion/bee-cause-are-britains-bees-and-pollinators-back-brink
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Reality check: it would have to be something so discreditable and disgusting that it put off significant numbers of we-want-Boris-backers. I can't imagine what that would look like, casn you?
    I'm not prepared to speculate on the nature of the skeleton.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Dominic Cummings “reports” that Liz Truss’s campaign is being run be arch-arch-arch remainer Roland Rudd.

    The name is familiar... I can't quite place it though.
    He used to be the star of Saturday morning children's’ tv with Philip Schofield and Kevin the Gerbil. I think.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    So he is hoping people don’t vote early.
    And that anyone will pay attention to the hustings.
    I think one of our august gang posted yesterday that some obscure rule means that members can vote and then change their minds and then vote again and again and it will be the final vote that counts.

    Sounds bonkers, so given we are in 2020s it is probably true.
    Not again and again. They can vote both by post and Online.
    But I do think they can do so repeatedly.
    If they revote, only the last one counts.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    Environment minister Zac Goldsmith says Extinction Rebellion & co are right to cause mayhem. Tells the BBC's Week in Westminster that 'we're not doing enough' to tackle climate change, adding: 'That kind of pressure does work, it may be annoying but it works.'
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    dixiedean said:

    alex_ said:

    Bannon GUILTY :):)

    What sentence could he get?
    Up to 1 yr and 100k per count (guilty on both - two - counts). Sentencing not til late October so hopefully he does a lot to encourage the worse by then…
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    Her Wikipedia page is quite detailed. I'd put the highlights of her ministerial career as being:

    1. Numerous trade deals when International Trade Secretary.
    2. As Secretary of State for the Environment she launched a 10-year bee and pollinator strategy in November 2014. After a quick look I haven't yet been able to find information on whether that has been a success, but there should be some about somewhere. I'll keep looking.
    3. She was named Road Safety Parliamentarian of the month while a backbencher for her campaigning to improve road design in her constituency.

    Everything else mentioned is either incomplete, or subjective, or part of the normal irrelevant treadmill of politics. Not sure how that compares to other politicians. I wasn't expecting to find much.
    Sounds like she will win on a landslide then.
    Liz Truss's trade deals might not be as favourable as we might have hoped but they probably mean she has done more to shore up the post-Brexit settlement than any other minister.
    The Australian one that went through without Parliamentary scrutiny was a good shifter of votes to the LDs in Honiton and Tiverton by all accounts. That Turnip Taliban might get restive. Indeed agricultural support could be a good card for Rishi to play.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    edited July 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    It is said there is an explosive scandal that will undermine the British government and civilisation as we know it, protected by superinjunctions, and known only to those who read Finnish social media.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161


    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    Environment minister Zac Goldsmith says Extinction Rebellion & co are right to cause mayhem. Tells the BBC's Week in Westminster that 'we're not doing enough' to tackle climate change, adding: 'That kind of pressure does work, it may be annoying but it works.'

    What an idiot.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    The first rule of Finland is that we are not allowed to talk about it. :smile:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    dixiedean said:

    alex_ said:

    Bannon GUILTY :):)

    What sentence could he get?
    30 days to a year for each of the 2 charges
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275


    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    Environment minister Zac Goldsmith says Extinction Rebellion & co are right to cause mayhem. Tells the BBC's Week in Westminster that 'we're not doing enough' to tackle climate change, adding: 'That kind of pressure does work, it may be annoying but it works.'

    Can you imagine what would happen if it was a Labour minister supporting it .
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,828
    Watching Dateline London - the American journalist suggested perhaps unsurprisingly that people in the US weren't really tuned into the race to be the next Prime minister whereas the Indian guest said that people in his country were fascinated by it. In part because they saw Sunak leading among MPs and assumed that he had it in the bag not realising that there was a two stage process.

    Whatever you think of his policies having a prime minister who captivates the people of the world's most populous country is unlikely to be bad for us.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    It is said there is an explosive scandal that will undermine the British government and civilisation as we know it, protected by superinjunctions, and known only to those who read Finnish social media.
    Moomintroll knows the truth.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    If there's any good evidence that Truss is a nutter then right now would be a good time to share it.

    I think she is a bit mad, and that's why I'll not vote for her. However what she's saying about economic policy is quite right, although I don't think she's done her homework.

    Sunak is very dull and also somehow delivers dullness in a bad way. A 6% rise in corporate taxation is just nuts. It really isn't hard to ring-fence the cvoid spend. Fewer rules would be a good thing. How hard can it be?

    Truss seems to be quite awful in her current role too. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this we need a person that will be taken seriously world-wide, and that's going to be a man, or a far better woman.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Norfolk SW is currently the 11th safest Tory seat so a good chance if she wins and with 'leader bonus' of it being one of the very safest seats in the country
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    The first rule of Finland is that we are not allowed to talk about it. :smile:
    The Swan of Tuonela was written by a Finnish composer. I cannot recall if the swan was black or if it was the lake it swam on ... :open_mouth:
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Watching Dateline London - the American journalist suggested perhaps unsurprisingly that people in the US weren't really tuned into the race to be the next Prime minister whereas the Indian guest said that people in his country were fascinated by it. In part because they saw Sunak leading among MPs and assumed that he had it in the bag not realising that there was a two stage process.

    Whatever you think of his policies having a prime minister who captivates the people of the world's most populous country is unlikely to be bad for us.

    Might be a bit of a blow to relations if he loses the next GE by a landslide though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    nico679 said:


    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    Environment minister Zac Goldsmith says Extinction Rebellion & co are right to cause mayhem. Tells the BBC's Week in Westminster that 'we're not doing enough' to tackle climate change, adding: 'That kind of pressure does work, it may be annoying but it works.'

    Can you imagine what would happen if it was a Labour minister supporting it .
    Jamie Reed got into trouble for going against them.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/17/labour-split-by-leadership-call-for-action-against-climate-crisis-blockades

    Whilst for Goldsmith, it's an old position, for which he got roasted.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/12/tory-mps-criticise-ben-goldsmith-extinction-rebellion-just-stop-oil

    Probably blurred boundaries, of course.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    It is said there is an explosive scandal that will undermine the British government and civilisation as we know it, protected by superinjunctions, and known only to those who read Finnish social media.
    Moomintroll knows the truth.

    I've been leafing through my Ikea catalogues to find out, no joy.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Whilst we are mentioning stupid protestors, are the new 'interference with infrastructure' laws yet in force so that we might see some of the "Just Stop Oil" goons behind bars?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited July 2022
    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    If there's any good evidence that Truss is a nutter then right now would be a good time to share it.

    I think she is a bit mad, and that's why I'll not vote for her. However what she's saying about economic policy is quite right, although I don't think she's done her homework.

    Sunak is very dull and also somehow delivers dullness in a bad way. A 6% rise in corporate taxation is just nuts. It really isn't hard to ring-fence the cvoid spend. Fewer rules would be a good thing. How hard can it be?

    Truss seems to be quite awful in her current role too. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this we need a person that will be taken seriously world-wide, and that's going to be a man, or a far better woman.

    I still can't shake Queenie from my mind every time I think of Truss.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNgUAtIQjPM
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MattW said:

    Whilst we are mentioning stupid protestors, are the new 'interference with infrastructure' laws yet in force so that we might see some of the "Just Stop Oil" goons behind bars?

    Their signal is a bit obscured by the fact that Petrol Should Be Much Cheaper are doing exactly what they are doing
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    EPG said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    It is said there is an explosive scandal that will undermine the British government and civilisation as we know it, protected by superinjunctions, and known only to those who read Finnish social media.
    Moomintroll knows the truth.

    I've been leafing through my Ikea catalogues to find out, no joy.
    Ikea's Swedish. Check the firmware in your Nokia phone.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    If there's any good evidence that Truss is a nutter then right now would be a good time to share it.

    I think she is a bit mad, and that's why I'll not vote for her. However what she's saying about economic policy is quite right, although I don't think she's done her homework.

    Sunak is very dull and also somehow delivers dullness in a bad way. A 6% rise in corporate taxation is just nuts. It really isn't hard to ring-fence the cvoid spend. Fewer rules would be a good thing. How hard can it be?

    Truss seems to be quite awful in her current role too. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this we need a person that will be taken seriously world-wide, and that's going to be a man, or a far better woman.

    I still can't shake Queenie from my mind every time I think of Truss.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNgUAtIQjPM
    I'd settle for Queenie mad.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    So he is hoping people don’t vote early.
    And that anyone will pay attention to the hustings.
    I think one of our august gang posted yesterday that some obscure rule means that members can vote and then change their minds and then vote again and again and it will be the final vote that counts.

    Sounds bonkers, so given we are in 2020s it is probably true.
    Not again and again. They can vote both by post and Online.
    But I do think they can do so repeatedly.
    If they revote, only the last one counts.

    Assuming he's behind into mid-August, I am sure Sunak will be reminding the membership about this facility after any Truss gaffes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    MattW said:

    nico679 said:


    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    Environment minister Zac Goldsmith says Extinction Rebellion & co are right to cause mayhem. Tells the BBC's Week in Westminster that 'we're not doing enough' to tackle climate change, adding: 'That kind of pressure does work, it may be annoying but it works.'

    Can you imagine what would happen if it was a Labour minister supporting it .
    Jamie Reed got into trouble for going against them.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/17/labour-split-by-leadership-call-for-action-against-climate-crisis-blockades

    Whilst for Goldsmith, it's an old position, for which he got roasted.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/12/tory-mps-criticise-ben-goldsmith-extinction-rebellion-just-stop-oil

    Probably blurred boundaries, of course.
    Correction: Last quote inaccurate - got my Goldsmith brothers mixed up.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    It is said there is an explosive scandal that will undermine the British government and civilisation as we know it, protected by superinjunctions, and known only to those who read Finnish social media.
    Is it something that could finnish the government?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited July 2022

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    The first rule of Finland is that we are not allowed to talk about it. :smile:
    The Swan of Tuonela was written by a Finnish composer. I cannot recall if the swan was black or if it was the lake it swam on ... :open_mouth:
    Not just 'a' Finnish composer, the great Finnish composer Jean Sibelius.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,696

    What has Liz Truss achieved. Objectively.

    First Liberal to be Foreign Secretary since Selwyn-Lloyd and the night of the long knives.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    It is said there is an explosive scandal that will undermine the British government and civilisation as we know it, protected by superinjunctions, and known only to those who read Finnish social media.
    Is it something that could finnish the government?
    Nice.

    Although I think this government is already effectively finished tbh.
  • Sorry Finnish, I’m lost
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    So he is hoping people don’t vote early.
    And that anyone will pay attention to the hustings.
    I think one of our august gang posted yesterday that some obscure rule means that members can vote and then change their minds and then vote again and again and it will be the final vote that counts.

    Sounds bonkers, so given we are in 2020s it is probably true.
    Not again and again. They can vote both by post and Online.
    But I do think they can do so repeatedly.
    If they revote, only the last one counts.

    Assuming he's behind into mid-August, I am sure Sunak will be reminding the membership about this facility after any Truss gaffes.
    It's always a mistake to complicate a simple system. 'Vote at time X by mechanism Y for just one of two candidates' is nice and simple. Even Tory members would be able to understand it.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,828

    Dominic Cummings “reports” that Liz Truss’s campaign is being run be arch-arch-arch remainer Roland Rudd.

    I'd be amazed if that is true. But what amazes us anymore? I seem to remember a very catty piece by someone (Alistair Campbell?) about his involvement with the second referendum campaign. A vanity project for promoting the name of Roland Rudd.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    edited July 2022
    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

    “We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/22/rishi-sunak-camp-says-debates-against-truss-will-change-tory-members-minds
    If there's any good evidence that Truss is a nutter then right now would be a good time to share it.

    I think she is a bit mad, and that's why I'll not vote for her. However what she's saying about economic policy is quite right, although I don't think she's done her homework.

    Sunak is very dull and also somehow delivers dullness in a bad way. A 6% rise in corporate taxation is just nuts. It really isn't hard to ring-fence the cvoid spend. Fewer rules would be a good thing. How hard can it be?

    Truss seems to be quite awful in her current role too. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this we need a person that will be taken seriously world-wide, and that's going to be a man, or a far better woman.

    The rise in company tax is only for companies reporting more than £50 000 in profit, and only the full 25% at £250 000 profit, accompanied with very generous allowances for capital investment and a taper inbetween.

    Clever companies will understand the incentive to invest in capital equipment, training and recruitment. SME companies will largely be unaffected. Indeed it is quite carefully structured to address Britain's longstanding problem of poor productivity growth.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Sunak is definite value there imho because it always possible that a black swan bearing some massive skeleton comes winging across the sunday paper skies.

    It is possible but unlikely, pace Finland, that there is much new mud to be thrown after the MPs' round. There will be a televised head-to-head debate on Monday, and that might crown or dethrone one or other.
    What is this 'Finland' please?
    It is said there is an explosive scandal that will undermine the British government and civilisation as we know it, protected by superinjunctions, and known only to those who read Finnish social media.
    Is it something that could finnish the government?
    The heat on them will be like a sauna.
This discussion has been closed.