Evened up a little bit, still greener on Sunak but I'm going to leave things there.
Regardless of how it goes, many thanks to Mr. Roberts for an excellent tip that opened up a large swathe of trading possibility.
Thanks.
I'm wondering whether I should balance my book either a bit, or entirely? I could lock in now a hefty four-figure sum either way, or should I let it ride? I'm not sure, what would people advise?
Personally, I’d advise treating your bet as purely a value proposition. Ignore all other logic/emotion.
The market rates Sunak a ~43% chance.
If you think his chances are less, or approximately equal to that, then cash out. Higher than that, hold on, or increase your stake.
Apologies if I’m stating the obvious, but most punters don’t think like this.
Another way of looking at it is to calculate your theoretical cashout position, then apply the Kelly criterion. Would you be comfortable gambling that % of your bankroll/net assets?
Well done on your bet, btw.
That might be more appropriate for a regular gambler looking to maximise returns over a large number of similar bets in time but this is, more or less, a one-off aiui.
Yes I am not a regular gamblet, I come here for the politics not the gambling. The only reason I placed the bet was because I wrote the article and afterwards thought "I'd better take my own advice" and placed it as a result. I nearly forgot to place the bet myself which in hindsight would have really sucked! 🤣
That looks like a more inept rabble than Truss's effort that you posted earlier (save for the JRM and Dorries inclusion).
I'm inclined to be wary of these putative Cabinets. There might be opponents spreading rumours to elicit dissension in the ranks (hold on, you promised *I* could have the DAA) or journalists lazily playing fantasy politics with the lists of declared supporters. I doubt they come from the horse's mouth.
It's hard not to conclude that Boris, even in his current state with his many flaws so cruely exposed, would have wiped the floor with either of the remaining candidates. We had reached the point, in fact gone well past the point, where he had to go, but the Tories do not have another campaigner of his ilk.
The challenge for both of them will be to reach beyond natural Tory supporters but of course the next 6 weeks are all about doing the exact opposite and focusing on the members and what they want. This is likely to lead to a series of commitments by both candidates which will prove burdensome when they pivot to the country as a whole. I am not sure that this is going to boost the Tories' prospects much. All they can hope is that the currents and storms currently lashing the country abate a bit by the time this is over.
Cruelly exposed flaws ?!
Sorry but you make it sound like you want him back like an old flame or something
No he had to go. But the Tories are weakened and their prospects at the next election diminished. SKS is extremely mediocre in presentation and persuasion, no matter how good he has proved to be at party management but the gap will be small to non existent now, whoever wins. Labour's chances are clearly on the up.
Starmer is the Hillary Clinton candidate. Massively better than the alternatives. Visible from Space. Not so visible on Earth, it seems.
Mr. Pointer, between Truss potentially bringing Mogg and Dorries into Cabinet and Sunak potentially being soft on Ukraine, I'm quite glad I don't have a vote on this choice.
Mr. Pointer, between Truss potentially bringing Mogg and Dorries into Cabinet and Sunak potentially being soft on Ukraine, I'm quite glad I don't have a vote on this choice.
There’s also a rumour that Mercedes might sign me as a test driver, alongside Nyck de Vries.
There’s no evidence for the suggestion of cabinet picks at this stage. It’s either opposition camp sh!t-stirring, or media sh!t-stirring.
Truss on R4 presenting a compelling case. Good grief.
I've not listened. A compelling case for what?
Turning off the radio. Truss is a puzzle. A conviction politician with convictions that change regularly. The continuity candidate proposing change, or is it the other way around. It’s hard to say. The only thing you can be sure of is that she went to a comprehensive school.
However, anyone who thinks Nadine Dorries should not be fired from the Cabinet using Mr Dancer’s space cannon is clearly utterly unfit to be PM.
Presumably JRM, Patel and Dorries are going to be in the cabinet for the next two years if Truss wins. 🤮
Don't forget that Boris's resignation honours list might see his most fanatical supporters elevated to the Lords, thus neatly settling the new PM's problem of how to demote them without splitting the party.
However, anyone who thinks Nadine Dorries should not be fired from the Cabinet using Mr Dancer’s space cannon is clearly utterly unfit to be PM.
Presumably JRM, Patel and Dorries are going to be in the cabinet for the next two years if Truss wins. 🤮
Don't forget that Boris's resignation honours list might see his most fanatical supporters elevated to the Lords, thus neatly settling the new PM's problem of how to demote them without splitting the party.
If we did introduce self ID for gender, we could get some interesting newspaper headlines. "Astronomical increase in female prostatic cancer. More needs to be done." Male uterine cancer up a million percent."
Mr. Pointer, between Truss potentially bringing Mogg and Dorries into Cabinet and Sunak potentially being soft on Ukraine, I'm quite glad I don't have a vote on this choice.
There’s also a rumour that Mercedes might sign me as a test driver, alongside Nyck de Vries.
There’s no evidence for the suggestion of cabinet picks at this stage. It’s either opposition camp sh!t-stirring, or media sh!t-stirring.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
Reportedly he wasn't happy with Sunak. If he has substantive doubts about how a Sunak Ministry would act then he has a duty to say so. If he says nothing, then it suggests that he's done a deal with Sunak that reassures him that Sunak won't be soft on Russia or China.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
Party leaders and potential PMs have to be able to overcome negative press, not expect not to receive it.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
The attacks on Mourdaunt were unfair and brutal, I am not surprised you are bruised. It was not acceptable. My only hope is the next time this stuff is dished out at a Labour leader you don’t buy into it.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
"viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism..." as a Labour member all I can say is now you know what it's like.
Mr. Pointer, between Truss potentially bringing Mogg and Dorries into Cabinet and Sunak potentially being soft on Ukraine, I'm quite glad I don't have a vote on this choice.
Personally, I find it difficult to believe Sunak would be 'soft' on Ukraine as PM. Partly because Wallace is very hawkish but not personally ambitious and could easily kneecap any 'soft' PM by resigning, and partly because there isn't a lot of scope to be soft. As long as the Ukrainians keep fighting we are committed to supporting them. His previous record of reminding people of the cost may be awkward for him, but he can reasonably say it is the job of the CotE to say what we can afford rather than what we would like to do.
I actually wonder if Truss might in practice be less committed to supporting Ukraine because she would think given her previous hawkishness (which memorably included threatening to annex part of Russia) she could do without Wallace. And we all know she has no convictions whatsoever.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
If you read the article, you'll see it's about standing up for democratic values to China and Russia and not selling our souls to them for an extra quick buck.
I would be a bit cautious about this. Sunak was playing the role of chancellor, Truss was playing the role of Foreign Secretary. So Truss would inevitably be more a bit more hawkish. It would be different if either of them were PM. Agree that Truss is sounding more positive, but 3% of GDP on defence has significant consequences.
Wise words but I've yet to hear from Sunak on foreign and defence policy in any meaningful way, and he's massively inexperienced here. In many ways it's the most important duty of PM.
I'm afraid I'd personally prioritise rebuilding our defences above tax cuts. Yes, it will cost me but our long-term safety and security must come first or we'll end up becoming Reek.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
If you read the article, you'll see it's about standing up for democratic values to China and Russia and not selling our souls to them for an extra quick buck.
I would be a bit cautious about this. Sunak was playing the role of chancellor, Truss was playing the role of Foreign Secretary. So Truss would inevitably be more a bit more hawkish. It would be different if either of them were PM. Agree that Truss is sounding more positive, but 3% of GDP on defence has significant consequences.
Wise words but I've yet to hear from Sunak on foreign and defence policy in any meaningful way, and he's massively inexperienced here. In many ways it's the most important duty of PM.
I'm afraid I'd personally prioritise rebuilding our defences above tax cuts. Yes, it will cost me but our long-term safety and security must come first or we'll end up becoming Reek.
So you're against Truss, whose policy is the opposite?
(The issue with Sunak's offering is you get tax rises *and* possibly defence cuts.)
Dr. Foxy, willing to work with China is not a plus. That was one of the most naive approaches of Cameron-Osborne, and the West generally.
The hard problem is that, from a very strategic perspective, ideally we need to work with Russia to contain China. There were many missed opportunities over the last 2-3 decades on this front, and the current situation is a tragedy that should have been avoided.
India. No-one mentions India. Possibly because they're non-aligned, introverted, disorganised, corrupt and massively unpredictable.
But, they're no fans of China and are overtaking them in population this year and will be 50% bigger by 2050 and possibly the bigger economy.
We need to do whatever we can to strengthen ties with India as, empire histrionics aside, they basically share our core values.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
If you read the article, you'll see it's about standing up for democratic values to China and Russia and not selling our souls to them for an extra quick buck.
Whose democratic values, though? The Republican party has pretty conclusively proved it does not believe in democracy, it just believes in freedom of action for itself and its supporters. On this side of the Atlantic, neither Truss nor Sunak has demonstrated any commitment to Parliamentary democracy or the rule of law. Washington Examiner/Spectator cheerleading for the likes of Orban indicates a very skewed understanding of what freedom actually means. Not being Russia or China is not the benchmark.
If you're whatabouting next to regimes that are committing genocide, locking up and executing dissidents, commiting naked wars of expansion and warcrimes and censoring/oppressing freedom of their citizens then it's really not worth discussing this subject with you.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
The attacks on Mourdaunt were unfair and brutal, I am not surprised you are bruised. It was not acceptable. My only hope is the next time this stuff is dished out at a Labour leader you don’t buy into it.
True, but the viciousness of the attacks on Mourdaunt were striking. Especially when they contrasted at the easy time given to preferred candidates, who seemingly can get away with any old rubbish.
The connection between a narrow section of the Tory party and certain newspaper editors who seem to have licence to print the most aggressive campaigns masquerading as news is one of the major problems we have in our democracy. It’s nasty, nasty stuff.
Normally Labour is the focus, but it was revealing to see this turned on Mourdaunt.
However, anyone who thinks Nadine Dorries should not be fired from the Cabinet using Mr Dancer’s space cannon is clearly utterly unfit to be PM.
Presumably JRM, Patel and Dorries are going to be in the cabinet for the next two years if Truss wins. 🤮
Don't forget that Boris's resignation honours list might see his most fanatical supporters elevated to the Lords, thus neatly settling the new PM's problem of how to demote them without splitting the party.
Lots of lovely by elections.
On the other hand, biased for constituencies which have voted for MPs demonstrating Johnson enthusiasm rather than, say, tractor enthusiasm.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
If you read the article, you'll see it's about standing up for democratic values to China and Russia and not selling our souls to them for an extra quick buck.
I would be a bit cautious about this. Sunak was playing the role of chancellor, Truss was playing the role of Foreign Secretary. So Truss would inevitably be more a bit more hawkish. It would be different if either of them were PM. Agree that Truss is sounding more positive, but 3% of GDP on defence has significant consequences.
Wise words but I've yet to hear from Sunak on foreign and defence policy in any meaningful way, and he's massively inexperienced here. In many ways it's the most important duty of PM.
I'm afraid I'd personally prioritise rebuilding our defences above tax cuts. Yes, it will cost me but our long-term safety and security must come first or we'll end up becoming Reek.
Back in the real world, we have had decades of Tory defence cuts, but that is all right because — look, squirrel — some Labour MPs have questioned the nuclear deterrent. Iirc the sainted Ben Wallace's signature appears on the latest troop cuts, although it is plausible he was strong-armed by Number 10.
Evened up a little bit, still greener on Sunak but I'm going to leave things there.
Regardless of how it goes, many thanks to Mr. Roberts for an excellent tip that opened up a large swathe of trading possibility.
Thanks.
I'm wondering whether I should balance my book either a bit, or entirely? I could lock in now a hefty four-figure sum either way, or should I let it ride? I'm not sure, what would people advise?
There is an old City saying that it is never too soon to take a profit. If you have a large bet on Sunak, you can afford to adjust it so you get the same whoever wins, or a lot on one but still a respectable amount on the other.
ETA it might help to forget about money and think of what you could buy with the winnings. Two weeks at Center Parcs on Rishi; one week on Liz Truss, for instance.
That's an interesting thought. As it stands, I've been thinking that £5k on Sunak (well wittled down a bit to just over £4700 via trading to be green on everyone else) I've been thinking could pay for eg an all inclusive family holiday to the Dominican Republic - but locking in less than that could be good too.
I'd green up if I was in your position.
For all the talk of how the race might change and so forth, the simple fact she is currently ahead where it counts with the members.
Your 250-1 bet was astonishingly good, but my view is Sunak is too short right now.
Truss on R4 presenting a compelling case. Good grief.
I've not listened. A compelling case for what?
Turning off the radio. Truss is a puzzle. A conviction politician with convictions that change regularly. The continuity candidate proposing change, or is it the other way around. It’s hard to say. The only thing you can be sure of is that she went to a comprehensive school.
To be fair I think her libertarian smallish state instincts are pretty consistent over her life.
She left the Lib Dems because it wasn't as advertised and was in two minds about Brexit before the vote.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
If you read the article, you'll see it's about standing up for democratic values to China and Russia and not selling our souls to them for an extra quick buck.
I would be a bit cautious about this. Sunak was playing the role of chancellor, Truss was playing the role of Foreign Secretary. So Truss would inevitably be more a bit more hawkish. It would be different if either of them were PM. Agree that Truss is sounding more positive, but 3% of GDP on defence has significant consequences.
Wise words but I've yet to hear from Sunak on foreign and defence policy in any meaningful way, and he's massively inexperienced here. In many ways it's the most important duty of PM.
I'm afraid I'd personally prioritise rebuilding our defences above tax cuts. Yes, it will cost me but our long-term safety and security must come first or we'll end up becoming Reek.
So you're against Truss, whose policy is the opposite?
(The issue with Sunak's offering is you get tax rises *and* possibly defence cuts.)
I'm actually currently unsure who to support but would probably slightly lean to Rishi because he's more predictable and less bonkers, and Truss will be awful in a GE campaign - so you're gambling her results are terrific.
That said, defence and security come first for me - even for 2.5 years - so if Rishi doesn't have something satisfactory to say on this then my vote is up for grabs.
Truss was truly awful on R4 Today. The betting issue is complicated. How awful and illiterate do you have to be for this to matter with the Tory membership? Are there limits? And if Truss is found out by the membership, will they find Sunak better?
And having the choice of 2 candidates who spent 6 months not resigning from a corrupt government, where do they go?
Labour should have no trouble destroying either of these.
So I feel neutral as to which will win the membership vote; inclined to look carefully at 'Labour most seats'.
Dr. Foxy, willing to work with China is not a plus. That was one of the most naive approaches of Cameron-Osborne, and the West generally.
The hard problem is that, from a very strategic perspective, ideally we need to work with Russia to contain China. There were many missed opportunities over the last 2-3 decades on this front, and the current situation is a tragedy that should have been avoided.
India. No-one mentions India. Possibly because they're non-aligned, introverted, disorganised, corrupt and massively unpredictable.
But, they're no fans of China and are overtaking them in population this year and will be 50% bigger by 2050 and possibly the bigger economy.
We need to do whatever we can to strengthen ties with India as, empire histrionics aside, they basically share our core values.
Serious question. Can India sustain a 50% population growth given the extreme stress their water supplies are under already?
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
The theory of Penny was good but it didn't stand up to scrutiny. I worked out I was convincing myself what I wanted to believe about her but there wasn't much there. We saw that in some of the naïve tweets and corrections she put out during the contest and that making her PM was her plan to make things better because reasons.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
The attacks on Mourdaunt were unfair and brutal, I am not surprised you are bruised. It was not acceptable. My only hope is the next time this stuff is dished out at a Labour leader you don’t buy into it.
True, but the viciousness of the attacks on Mourdaunt were striking. Especially when they contrasted at the easy time given to preferred candidates, who seemingly can get away with any old rubbish.
The connection between a narrow section of the Tory party and certain newspaper editors who seem to have licence to print the most aggressive campaigns masquerading as news is one of the major problems we have in our democracy. It’s nasty, nasty stuff.
Normally Labour is the focus, but it was revealing to see this turned on Mourdaunt.
It’s nasty but not 100% confined to the right if we are being entirely honest. The problem is that the media on both sides want to be players in the game as well as commenting on the match.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
If you read the article, you'll see it's about standing up for democratic values to China and Russia and not selling our souls to them for an extra quick buck.
Whose democratic values, though? The Republican party has pretty conclusively proved it does not believe in democracy, it just believes in freedom of action for itself and its supporters. On this side of the Atlantic, neither Truss nor Sunak has demonstrated any commitment to Parliamentary democracy or the rule of law. Washington Examiner/Spectator cheerleading for the likes of Orban indicates a very skewed understanding of what freedom actually means. Not being Russia or China is not the benchmark.
If you're whatabouting next to regimes that are committing genocide, locking up and executing dissidents, commiting naked wars of expansion and warcrimes and censoring/oppressing freedom of their citizens then it's really not worth discussing this subject with you.
I'm not. I'm asking you about what democratic values the US and UK right - as exemplified by the Washington Examiner - stand for. I can understand why you might find that uncomfortable to discuss, but it's an important question. The erosion of our democratic rights and freedoms cannot be justified on the basis that neither the UK nor the US are violently repressive tyrannies like China or Russia.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
If you read the article, you'll see it's about standing up for democratic values to China and Russia and not selling our souls to them for an extra quick buck.
I would be a bit cautious about this. Sunak was playing the role of chancellor, Truss was playing the role of Foreign Secretary. So Truss would inevitably be more a bit more hawkish. It would be different if either of them were PM. Agree that Truss is sounding more positive, but 3% of GDP on defence has significant consequences.
Wise words but I've yet to hear from Sunak on foreign and defence policy in any meaningful way, and he's massively inexperienced here. In many ways it's the most important duty of PM.
I'm afraid I'd personally prioritise rebuilding our defences above tax cuts. Yes, it will cost me but our long-term safety and security must come first or we'll end up becoming Reek.
So you're against Truss, whose policy is the opposite?
(The issue with Sunak's offering is you get tax rises *and* possibly defence cuts.)
I'm actually currently unsure who to support but would probably slightly lean to Rishi because he's more predictable and less bonkers, and Truss will be awful in a GE campaign - so you're gambling her results are terrific.
That said, defence and security come first for me - even for 2.5 years - so if Rishi doesn't have something satisfactory to say on this then my vote is up for grabs.
A very fair answer, and I withdraw the implications of my comment.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
I don't hold any particular brief for Mordaunt, but the campaign against her was seriously unpleasant. I very much doubt you're the only Conservative feeling bitter about it.
Dr. Foxy, willing to work with China is not a plus. That was one of the most naive approaches of Cameron-Osborne, and the West generally.
The hard problem is that, from a very strategic perspective, ideally we need to work with Russia to contain China. There were many missed opportunities over the last 2-3 decades on this front, and the current situation is a tragedy that should have been avoided.
India. No-one mentions India. Possibly because they're non-aligned, introverted, disorganised, corrupt and massively unpredictable.
But, they're no fans of China and are overtaking them in population this year and will be 50% bigger by 2050 and possibly the bigger economy.
We need to do whatever we can to strengthen ties with India as, empire histrionics aside, they basically share our core values.
Yes, there are very strong similarities between Modi's views on democracy and freedom and those of the right in both the US and UK.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I think Penny can still make it to leader one day, but she needs more time in the spotlight. I think some of the mishaps came from being a little too inexperienced at the high level - she didn’t have compelling responses to the attack lines and she wasn’t sharp enough in the debates. Doing more media as a cabinet minister would give her more experience of that, as well as being able to (attempt to) convincingly sell a record.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
Has Putinguy1983 hacked your account?
Pretty much, yes, absolutely it has, though as the article says Truss has been out in front of Biden and Blinken, and not just behind following them. Johnson was too.
I think our foreign and security policy should be guided by our own interests, not Neocon talking points. On Russia, which represents a security threat to us, we should absolutely be standing up to Putin alongside America and anyone else who is up for it. Read through my posts, I have never said anything different. But the China-US rivalry is different, as China isn't a threat to our security, and frankly a lot of the bluster on the US side is down to their own sense of supremacy being threatened. That is their problem, not ours.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
The attacks on Mourdaunt were unfair and brutal, I am not surprised you are bruised. It was not acceptable. My only hope is the next time this stuff is dished out at a Labour leader you don’t buy into it.
True, but the viciousness of the attacks on Mourdaunt were striking. Especially when they contrasted at the easy time given to preferred candidates, who seemingly can get away with any old rubbish.
The connection between a narrow section of the Tory party and certain newspaper editors who seem to have licence to print the most aggressive campaigns masquerading as news is one of the major problems we have in our democracy. It’s nasty, nasty stuff.
Normally Labour is the focus, but it was revealing to see this turned on Mourdaunt.
It’s nasty but not 100% confined to the right if we are being entirely honest. The problem is that the media on both sides want to be players in the game as well as commenting on the match.
I'm conscious that I'll be suffering from left-bias here but where do you see the same vile, blatant, shit-slinging that the Mail and Express dish out, coming from the left? Genuine question.
Truss on R4 presenting a compelling case. Good grief.
I've not listened. A compelling case for what?
Turning off the radio. Truss is a puzzle. A conviction politician with convictions that change regularly. The continuity candidate proposing change, or is it the other way around. It’s hard to say. The only thing you can be sure of is that she went to a comprehensive school.
To be fair I think her libertarian smallish state instincts are pretty consistent over her life.
She left the Lib Dems because it wasn't as advertised and was in two minds about Brexit before the vote.
I don’t think her youthful membership of the Liberals is at all relevant, Churchill was a Liberal for a bit. I’ll take your word that she has consistent commitment to a small government, but beyond that she does seem to blow with the wind. The problem is that in any given moment she seems almost maniacally committed to her belief, which can then switch significantly when the wind blows. It’s an odd thing we rarely see in a politician.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
The theory of Penny was good but it didn't stand up to scrutiny. I worked out I was convincing myself what I wanted to believe about her but there wasn't much there. We saw that in some of the naïve tweets and corrections she put out during the contest and that making her PM was her plan to make things better because reasons.
Lots of others came to the same conclusion.
“making her PM was her plan to make things better because reasons”
Unusually for you, as you are typically eloquent and articulate, this is teen speak and doesn’t really mean anything.
Can you translate into something approaching plain English?
From soundings last night Tory party member views seem to be all over the place - and unpredictably so. Plenty who detest candidates on both sides.
If I had to guess I'd say younger (by which I mean under 60) working professionals in the Tory party membership prefer Rishi but there aren't as many of them.
That extremely explains “Fuck business” and the demise of your party: you’ve become the party of the affluent elderly. Those people have a right to their say of course, but they do not deserve hegemonic status.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
Party leaders and potential PMs have to be able to overcome negative press, not expect not to receive it.
If they cannot do so it tells its own story.
Given the very short timeframe involved, it's hard to see how she might have done so. Party leaders generally get rather more of a chance to make their case.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
Has Putinguy1983 hacked your account?
Pretty much, yes, absolutely it has, though as the article says Truss has been out in front of Biden and Blinken, and not just behind following them. Johnson was too.
I think our foreign and security policy should be guided by our own interests, not Neocon talking points. On Russia, which represents a security threat to us, we should absolutely be standing up to Putin alongside America and anyone else who is up for it. Read through my posts, I have never said anything different. But the China-US rivalry is different, as China isn't a threat to our security, and frankly a lot of the bluster on the US side is down to their own sense of supremacy being threatened. That is their problem, not ours.
Hmmm.
Given our reliance on Taiwanese microchips to run the technology on which pretty much our entire civilisation is now dependent, I have to say I don't agree with your view that 'China isn't a threat to our security.'
If they do attack Taiwan we are more buggered than a reluctant Turkish conscript.
About the only positive of the war in Ukraine, in among the rather more numerous and upsetting negatives, is that the solidity of the west in supporting it seems to have caused Xi to wind his neck in over Taiwan.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
The attacks on Mourdaunt were unfair and brutal, I am not surprised you are bruised. It was not acceptable. My only hope is the next time this stuff is dished out at a Labour leader you don’t buy into it.
True, but the viciousness of the attacks on Mourdaunt were striking. Especially when they contrasted at the easy time given to preferred candidates, who seemingly can get away with any old rubbish.
The connection between a narrow section of the Tory party and certain newspaper editors who seem to have licence to print the most aggressive campaigns masquerading as news is one of the major problems we have in our democracy. It’s nasty, nasty stuff.
Normally Labour is the focus, but it was revealing to see this turned on Mourdaunt.
It’s nasty but not 100% confined to the right if we are being entirely honest. The problem is that the media on both sides want to be players in the game as well as commenting on the match.
Whilst there is nastiness everywhere, there is something particularly pointed about the operation focussed on certain parts of the Tory party and certain editors.
Truss on R4 presenting a compelling case. Good grief.
I've not listened. A compelling case for what?
Turning off the radio. Truss is a puzzle. A conviction politician with convictions that change regularly. The continuity candidate proposing change, or is it the other way around. It’s hard to say. The only thing you can be sure of is that she went to a comprehensive school.
Ha! I see.
Is the last sentence a sneer at comprehensives or a comment that she keeps mentioning it?
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
The attacks on Mourdaunt were unfair and brutal, I am not surprised you are bruised. It was not acceptable. My only hope is the next time this stuff is dished out at a Labour leader you don’t buy into it.
True, but the viciousness of the attacks on Mourdaunt were striking. Especially when they contrasted at the easy time given to preferred candidates, who seemingly can get away with any old rubbish.
The connection between a narrow section of the Tory party and certain newspaper editors who seem to have licence to print the most aggressive campaigns masquerading as news is one of the major problems we have in our democracy. It’s nasty, nasty stuff.
Normally Labour is the focus, but it was revealing to see this turned on Mourdaunt.
It’s nasty but not 100% confined to the right if we are being entirely honest. The problem is that the media on both sides want to be players in the game as well as commenting on the match.
It is mainly right-wing media attacking left wing politicians. However, in the past few years, added to this has been Brexiteer media attacks on Remainers, even Conservative ones. Was it Cameron who said during the referendum campaign, about media attacks, this is what it must feel like for Labour in an election? Now we see newspapers picking different sides in this leadership election. It might not be pretty.
Truss was truly awful on R4 Today. The betting issue is complicated. How awful and illiterate do you have to be for this to matter with the Tory membership? Are there limits? And if Truss is found out by the membership, will they find Sunak better?....
Judging by the focus group on yesterday's Newsnight, who declared all of the candidates had been "brilliant", I think she'll have no problem.
Truss on R4 presenting a compelling case. Good grief.
I've not listened. A compelling case for what?
Turning off the radio. Truss is a puzzle. A conviction politician with convictions that change regularly. The continuity candidate proposing change, or is it the other way around. It’s hard to say. The only thing you can be sure of is that she went to a comprehensive school.
Ha! I see.
Is the last sentence a sneer at comprehensives or a comment that she keeps mentioning it?
She mentioned all the time, it’s her point of difference from Sunak.
From soundings last night Tory party member views seem to be all over the place - and unpredictably so. Plenty who detest candidates on both sides.
If I had to guess I'd say younger (by which I mean under 60) working professionals in the Tory party membership prefer Rishi but there aren't as many of them.
That extremely explains “Fuck business” and the demise of your party: you’ve become the party of the affluent elderly. Those people have a right to their say of course, but they do not deserve hegemonic status.
Pretty much.
Most people of working age (including myself as a 40 something) have overall a very different view. I might be a child of Thatcher, but I was a teenager/young adult of Blair.
Prioritizing tax cuts over public services is the sure fire way to lose any election.
I do hope that the English Conservatives keep banging on about Margaret Thatcher. The Scottish Conservatives hate it.
'For the former foreign secretary Margaret Beckett, this collective amnesia and myth-making is most aggravating in what it omits altogether – the fact that Thatcher largely balanced the books with the North Sea oil windfall.'
And given the moaning this morning on PM of Tories about their being given the same treatment that Tories give Labour pols - how unfair! how horrible!, this is very apposite.
'But the blue-on-blue attacks in the early days were far more vindictive. Ted Heath, her predecessor as leader, was openly cruel from the start. Before her first speech in parliament as leader of the opposition, he reserved the seat next to her and then failed to show up, so that when she looked around for support there would be no one there. Colleagues privately called her a “cultured pearl” – low-quality, not the real thing. “I used to warn them: ‘Once she gets into office, she won’t owe anything to any of you lot,’” says [Margaret] Beckett. “‘Although you may have elected her, you’re treating her like shit. If she doesn’t owe you anything, she’ll be able to do what she wants.’ And that’s what happened: once she got her feet under the table, she was away.”'
I do hope that the English Conservatives keep banging on about Margaret Thatcher. The Scottish Conservatives hate it.
Everyone keeps banging on about Thatcher - left and right - because for good or for ill she did mark a decisive turning point in British politics in a way no other politician has remotely managed since. The left would say for the worse, the right for the better. They're both oversimplifications, but hey, politicians don't really do nuance.
It may be that the current crisis will see a leader emerge who has a similarly dramatic impact and then we will move on from Thatcher as she moved us on from Attlee. Looking at today's crop of politicians I have my doubts, but then there were no shortage of people who thought Thatcher would be an ineffectual lightweight and lucky to last one term in May 1979.
The idea that this election will run through the whole of the summer is horrible. This should be wrapped up next week. The 1922 committee got this wrong.
It's hard not to conclude that Boris, even in his current state with his many flaws so cruely exposed, would have wiped the floor with either of the remaining candidates. We had reached the point, in fact gone well past the point, where he had to go, but the Tories do not have another campaigner of his ilk.
The challenge for both of them will be to reach beyond natural Tory supporters but of course the next 6 weeks are all about doing the exact opposite and focusing on the members and what they want. This is likely to lead to a series of commitments by both candidates which will prove burdensome when they pivot to the country as a whole. I am not sure that this is going to boost the Tories' prospects much. All they can hope is that the currents and storms currently lashing the country abate a bit by the time this is over.
Cruelly exposed flaws ?!
Sorry but you make it sound like you want him back like an old flame or something
No he had to go. But the Tories are weakened and their prospects at the next election diminished. SKS is extremely mediocre in presentation and persuasion, no matter how good he has proved to be at party management but the gap will be small to non existent now, whoever wins. Labour's chances are clearly on the up.
if only the cruel liar hadn't purged anyone halfway capable
That is the real tragedy for the Tories: they forced out all the decent folk and promoted total crud.
Truss was truly awful on R4 Today. The betting issue is complicated. How awful and illiterate do you have to be for this to matter with the Tory membership? Are there limits? And if Truss is found out by the membership, will they find Sunak better?
And having the choice of 2 candidates who spent 6 months not resigning from a corrupt government, where do they go?
Labour should have no trouble destroying either of these.
So I feel neutral as to which will win the membership vote; inclined to look carefully at 'Labour most seats'.
Is this the eagerly awaited (by me) moment when you move from that '45% each of 2, Con maj or Hung Parliament' assessment?
Truss on R4 presenting a compelling case. Good grief.
I've not listened. A compelling case for what?
Turning off the radio. Truss is a puzzle. A conviction politician with convictions that change regularly. The continuity candidate proposing change, or is it the other way around. It’s hard to say. The only thing you can be sure of is that she went to a comprehensive school.
Ha! I see.
Is the last sentence a sneer at comprehensives or a comment that she keeps mentioning it?
She mentioned all the time, it’s her point of difference from Sunak.
Euch, nothing worse than people who keep going on about going to a comprehensive!
Mr. Dickson, I'm not sure either Zoe Williams or the Guardian count as Conservatives, though.
Makes some good points though. Most strikingly for me about her tax policy. She prioritised paying for tax cuts over tax cuts. The myth of Thatcher wasn't the PM Thatcher at all.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
Has Putinguy1983 hacked your account?
Pretty much, yes, absolutely it has, though as the article says Truss has been out in front of Biden and Blinken, and not just behind following them. Johnson was too.
I think our foreign and security policy should be guided by our own interests, not Neocon talking points. On Russia, which represents a security threat to us, we should absolutely be standing up to Putin alongside America and anyone else who is up for it. Read through my posts, I have never said anything different. But the China-US rivalry is different, as China isn't a threat to our security, and frankly a lot of the bluster on the US side is down to their own sense of supremacy being threatened. That is their problem, not ours.
China absolutely is a threat to our security, even more than Russia is.
As horrendous as Putin's invasion of Ukraine is, China invading Taiwan would be an order of magnitude worse. Ukraine is a substantial grain exporter and Russia a substantial energy exporter so this war has helped fuel a cost of living crisis with energy and food, but Taiwan is the leading global supplier of high end electronic chips that run the modern economy and China is the leading global exporter full stop.
A China/Taiwan war would be utterly catastrophic for the global economy and thus our own security in a way that would absolutely dwarf our current crisis. Joining with the USA, Japan, Australia and other allies in deterring that risk is great value for money and is another reason why Putin's invasion of Ukraine must be seen to fail, to deter China too.
The world today is all interconnected, you can't look at one alone and ignore the rest of the globe.
Mr. Carnyx, aye, though one might just suspect her of being less than objective.
As an aside, currently on the third and final part of a trilogy on the Seleukid Empire. They've fallen into infighting, causing a writ small version of what the Romans did to themselves when they consumed their strength in civil war.
I do hope that the English Conservatives keep banging on about Margaret Thatcher. The Scottish Conservatives hate it.
Everyone keeps banging on about Thatcher - left and right - because for good or for ill she did mark a decisive turning point in British politics in a way no other politician has remotely managed since. The left would say for the worse, the right for the better. They're both oversimplifications, but hey, politicians don't really do nuance.
It may be that the current crisis will see a leader emerge who has a similarly dramatic impact and then we will move on from Thatcher as she moved us on from Attlee. Looking at today's crop of politicians I have my doubts, but then there were no shortage of people who thought Thatcher would be an ineffectual lightweight and lucky to last one term in May 1979.
Maybe, but I can't help feeling Ms. Truss (for good or evil) is no Mrs Thatcher. Dennis Thatcher perhaps.
I named Liz Truss as the winner even before the first ballot. So did Nick Palmer and IIRC Casino Royale. Any others?
BTW there is a large close up pic of Liz in the inside pages of the Telgraph today which does her no favours. Her complexion is terrible.
Darn, should have gone with Mordaunt then.
I accept the comment about her complexion was superficial but we live in a media age where policiticans are judged by appearances. (Remember Nixon and the five o'clock shadow?)
I thnk the nastiest slur against Penny that the Mail run was to interview Penny's (now ex) husband's first wife who said she could tell a few things about Penny. It implied Penny was a home wreaker without any actual evidence. In contrast there was nothing about Liz and why the "Turnip Taliban" didn't want her as their MP.
I do hope that the English Conservatives keep banging on about Margaret Thatcher. The Scottish Conservatives hate it.
Everyone keeps banging on about Thatcher - left and right - because for good or for ill she did mark a decisive turning point in British politics in a way no other politician has remotely managed since. The left would say for the worse, the right for the better. They're both oversimplifications, but hey, politicians don't really do nuance.
It may be that the current crisis will see a leader emerge who has a similarly dramatic impact and then we will move on from Thatcher as she moved us on from Attlee. Looking at today's crop of politicians I have my doubts, but then there were no shortage of people who thought Thatcher would be an ineffectual lightweight and lucky to last one term in May 1979.
Maybe, but I can't help feeling Ms. Truss (for good or evil) is no Mrs Thatcher. Dennis Thatcher perhaps.
It's hard not to conclude that Boris, even in his current state with his many flaws so cruely exposed, would have wiped the floor with either of the remaining candidates. We had reached the point, in fact gone well past the point, where he had to go, but the Tories do not have another campaigner of his ilk.
The challenge for both of them will be to reach beyond natural Tory supporters but of course the next 6 weeks are all about doing the exact opposite and focusing on the members and what they want. This is likely to lead to a series of commitments by both candidates which will prove burdensome when they pivot to the country as a whole. I am not sure that this is going to boost the Tories' prospects much. All they can hope is that the currents and storms currently lashing the country abate a bit by the time this is over.
Cruelly exposed flaws ?!
Sorry but you make it sound like you want him back like an old flame or something
No he had to go. But the Tories are weakened and their prospects at the next election diminished. SKS is extremely mediocre in presentation and persuasion, no matter how good he has proved to be at party management but the gap will be small to non existent now, whoever wins. Labour's chances are clearly on the up.
Starmer is the Hillary Clinton candidate. Massively better than the alternatives. Visible from Space. Not so visible on Earth, it seems.
Starmer has performed particularly poorly in Scotland, which is essential if he is to get Lab Maj (7/2 at time of writing).
The Scottish Labour offering to the electorate is unchanged since 2015. They don’t know what message to promote, so they just keep on playing the same old tune: No, No, No.
In fairness, that has meant that there has been a small SCon to SLab swing of approx 4 points as The Oaf scared folks off, but rising from the high teens to the low twenties isn’t going to gain Starmer a single Scottish seat.
I know what message Scottish Labour need to be promoting, and I am 99% confident that they won’t do it.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
Penny had the chance to win the campaign despite all that. I think her biggest mistake was attempting to appear to have been less woke than she was. She should have said something more like
'The gay and trans community has always been close to my heart, and I've always striven in office to ensure that policies upheld the rights of these minorities. The debate has thrown up some more concerning aspects in recent years, and as a lifelong campaigner for women's rights, my approach to these issues has developed more nuance and caution. Here are some of the ways that my actions have reflected that:' etc.
A sinner that repenteth is a lot more appealing than a sinner that denyeth. And safe too - then there would have been no raking through old statements and interviews for gotchas.
I still maintain that the campaign wasn't well-timed, because Penny seems like she's going through something personal. She just seems very sad.
Truss on R4 presenting a compelling case. Good grief.
I've not listened. A compelling case for what?
Turning off the radio. Truss is a puzzle. A conviction politician with convictions that change regularly. The continuity candidate proposing change, or is it the other way around. It’s hard to say. The only thing you can be sure of is that she went to a comprehensive school.
Ha! I see.
Is the last sentence a sneer at comprehensives or a comment that she keeps mentioning it?
She mentioned all the time, it’s her point of difference from Sunak.
Got you thanks - your irony is too subtle for me at this time in the morning. My failing, not yours!
I do hope that the English Conservatives keep banging on about Margaret Thatcher. The Scottish Conservatives hate it.
Everyone keeps banging on about Thatcher - left and right - because for good or for ill she did mark a decisive turning point in British politics in a way no other politician has remotely managed since. The left would say for the worse, the right for the better. They're both oversimplifications, but hey, politicians don't really do nuance.
It may be that the current crisis will see a leader emerge who has a similarly dramatic impact and then we will move on from Thatcher as she moved us on from Attlee. Looking at today's crop of politicians I have my doubts, but then there were no shortage of people who thought Thatcher would be an ineffectual lightweight and lucky to last one term in May 1979.
I think the advent of 24 hour media and the speed at which comments can be broadcast around the world, misinterpreted and bound to deeply upset someone somewhere, make it much harder for a decisive Thatcher figure to emerge. Politicians are seen as more fragile about their public image and less decisive and instinctively ideological for a reason.
That said, look at how someone like Kemi Badenoch really impressed in the leadership contest this time - who made “I will be blunt and tell the truth to you” her rhetorical style and came across as refreshing and exciting for that very reason. A politician who has clear ideas, who speaks more honestly and with conviction, and who tells people what they will do and follows through, might actually be something the country is ready for.
The only thing I will caution is that the media abhor and excoriate anyone who breaks the mold. I am not in any way a fan of Donald Trump, his actions, and some of the rubbish that came out of his mouth, but because he didn’t fit the mold and was more naturally combative and open with the media they had a field day attacking him over everything he said, a lot of which was justified, a lot of which probably wasn’t.
I don't think Johnson going will have a material impact on our practical support for Ukraine. The only difference might be presentational and it would be a positive one - that we see less of the conflict being used to distract from scandals at home and a touch less wild exaggeration of how important we and our PM are to it.
It's hard not to conclude that Boris, even in his current state with his many flaws so cruely exposed, would have wiped the floor with either of the remaining candidates. We had reached the point, in fact gone well past the point, where he had to go, but the Tories do not have another campaigner of his ilk.
The challenge for both of them will be to reach beyond natural Tory supporters but of course the next 6 weeks are all about doing the exact opposite and focusing on the members and what they want. This is likely to lead to a series of commitments by both candidates which will prove burdensome when they pivot to the country as a whole. I am not sure that this is going to boost the Tories' prospects much. All they can hope is that the currents and storms currently lashing the country abate a bit by the time this is over.
Cruelly exposed flaws ?!
Sorry but you make it sound like you want him back like an old flame or something
No he had to go. But the Tories are weakened and their prospects at the next election diminished. SKS is extremely mediocre in presentation and persuasion, no matter how good he has proved to be at party management but the gap will be small to non existent now, whoever wins. Labour's chances are clearly on the up.
Starmer is the Hillary Clinton candidate. Massively better than the alternatives. Visible from Space. Not so visible on Earth, it seems.
Starmer has performed particularly poorly in Scotland, which is essential if he is to get Lab Maj (7/2 at time of writing).
The Scottish Labour offering to the electorate is unchanged since 2015. They don’t know what message to promote, so they just keep on playing the same old tune: No, No, No.
In fairness, that has meant that there has been a small SCon to SLab swing of approx 4 points as The Oaf scared folks off, but rising from the high teens to the low twenties isn’t going to gain Starmer a single Scottish seat.
I know what message Scottish Labour need to be promoting, and I am 99% confident that they won’t do it.
Doesn't help that their lord and master SKS, down in London, is desperate to deny any hint of cooperation with the SNP, not so long after Mr Sarwar promised* no cooperation with the Tories and then his party went all out for unionist consortia in local gmt.
*Arguably technically correct, in the weasel wording he used, but weasel wording cuts very little ice.
Dr. Foxy, willing to work with China is not a plus. That was one of the most naive approaches of Cameron-Osborne, and the West generally.
The hard problem is that, from a very strategic perspective, ideally we need to work with Russia to contain China. There were many missed opportunities over the last 2-3 decades on this front, and the current situation is a tragedy that should have been avoided.
We have no reason to work with Russia to contain China as Russia is not our friend or ally and can't be under Putin either. Putin's Russia don't have anything to offer us.
We are far better working with friendly democracies with similar interests to our own like the USA, Japan, Australia, India etc than we are with dictatorships which are only interested in number one.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
If they'd been against Truss, they could have absolutely destroyed the woman; it's not like the material wasn't there - she was a Lib Dem ffs.
Mr. Carnyx, aye, though one might just suspect her of being less than objective.
As an aside, currently on the third and final part of a trilogy on the Seleukid Empire. They've fallen into infighting, causing a writ small version of what the Romans did to themselves when they consumed their strength in civil war.
My memories were returning rather to Gibbon on the Auction of the Empire by the Praetorians, as I recently quoted on here - but it would have been more appropriate to save it for now when we have two senatorial candidates standing.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
If they'd been against Truss, they could have absolutely destroyed the woman; it's not like the material wasn't there - she was a Lib Dem ffs.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
If they'd been against Truss, they could have absolutely destroyed the woman; it's not like the material wasn't there - she was a Lib Dem ffs.
The Tory press staked too much supporting Boris so that Dacre could get his seat in the Lords. So they have to back the Boris candidate and that is Truss.
I know that @ToryJim has eloquently laid out what has made him bitter. But surely he will feel better when Lord Dacre is sworn in to the other place? That is the most important thing in his party after all. According to Paul Dacre.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
The attacks on Mourdaunt were unfair and brutal, I am not surprised you are bruised. It was not acceptable. My only hope is the next time this stuff is dished out at a Labour leader you don’t buy into it.
True, but the viciousness of the attacks on Mourdaunt were striking. Especially when they contrasted at the easy time given to preferred candidates, who seemingly can get away with any old rubbish.
The connection between a narrow section of the Tory party and certain newspaper editors who seem to have licence to print the most aggressive campaigns masquerading as news is one of the major problems we have in our democracy. It’s nasty, nasty stuff.
Normally Labour is the focus, but it was revealing to see this turned on Mourdaunt.
It’s nasty but not 100% confined to the right if we are being entirely honest. The problem is that the media on both sides want to be players in the game as well as commenting on the match.
Whilst there is nastiness everywhere, there is something particularly pointed about the operation focussed on certain parts of the Tory party and certain editors.
What did we expect. Tory Party = Nasty Party.
There are some deep-rooted unpleasant traits of both the Left and the Right imo, which biased though I know I am, I will summarise as:
I do hope that the English Conservatives keep banging on about Margaret Thatcher. The Scottish Conservatives hate it.
Everyone keeps banging on about Thatcher - left and right - because for good or for ill she did mark a decisive turning point in British politics in a way no other politician has remotely managed since. The left would say for the worse, the right for the better. They're both oversimplifications, but hey, politicians don't really do nuance.
It may be that the current crisis will see a leader emerge who has a similarly dramatic impact and then we will move on from Thatcher as she moved us on from Attlee. Looking at today's crop of politicians I have my doubts, but then there were no shortage of people who thought Thatcher would be an ineffectual lightweight and lucky to last one term in May 1979.
Maybe, but I can't help feeling Ms. Truss (for good or evil) is no Mrs Thatcher. Dennis Thatcher perhaps.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
If they'd been against Truss, they could have absolutely destroyed the woman; it's not like the material wasn't there - she was a Lib Dem ffs.
That she was a Lib Dem is not a weakness. Churchill was once a Liberal too. People who evolve are more interesting than those who don't.
Tony Blair when he was young was an avowed Trotskist, while Darling, Milburn, Reid and Mandelson were all avowed Communists when they were young too. People change.
I do hope that the English Conservatives keep banging on about Margaret Thatcher. The Scottish Conservatives hate it.
Everyone keeps banging on about Thatcher - left and right - because for good or for ill she did mark a decisive turning point in British politics in a way no other politician has remotely managed since. The left would say for the worse, the right for the better. They're both oversimplifications, but hey, politicians don't really do nuance.
It may be that the current crisis will see a leader emerge who has a similarly dramatic impact and then we will move on from Thatcher as she moved us on from Attlee. Looking at today's crop of politicians I have my doubts, but then there were no shortage of people who thought Thatcher would be an ineffectual lightweight and lucky to last one term in May 1979.
Thank you for confirming that, because @Morris_Dancer thinks it is just The Guardian.
The Thatcher myth was built on her nicking North Sea Oil revenues.
I don't think Johnson going will have a material impact on our practical support for Ukraine. The only difference might be presentational and it would be a positive one - that we see less of the conflict being used to distract from scandals at home and a touch less wild exaggeration of how important we and our PM are to it.
Ukraine was another "I got all the big calls right" crock.
Johnson saw Ukraine as a Partygate "get out of jail free card". He raised his profile in Ukraine and due to our good fortune in importing Norwegian rather than Russian oil could appear slightly more hawkish than his European counterparts. Johnson's Ukrainian cheerleader profile was also hoisted high by his media flag wavers. Despite the Ukrainian refugees fiasco, he did OK in Ukraine, but no better than his successor will muster.
Dr. Foxy, willing to work with China is not a plus. That was one of the most naive approaches of Cameron-Osborne, and the West generally.
The hard problem is that, from a very strategic perspective, ideally we need to work with Russia to contain China. There were many missed opportunities over the last 2-3 decades on this front, and the current situation is a tragedy that should have been avoided.
We have no reason to work with Russia to contain China as Russia is not our friend or ally and can't be under Putin either. Putin's Russia don't have anything to offer us.
We are far better working with friendly democracies with similar interests to our own like the USA, Japan, Australia, India etc than we are with dictatorships which are only interested in number one.
You might want to remind our politicians of that the next time they jet off to kiss Bin Salman's ring.
Team Truss obviously very happy. Team Sunak very happy. But perhaps the happiest people I’ve spoken to this afternoon are Labour people… Mordaunt was, by some way, the candidate that there were most worried about. They’ve been hoping for some time it would be Sunak V Truss. https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1549791598019575808
The problem with Mourdaunt was that people projected on her all their hopes and dreams and created the image of some sort of perfect Tory leader, but the brutal reality was that didn’t stack up. That and the Daily Mail did for her.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
If they'd been against Truss, they could have absolutely destroyed the woman; it's not like the material wasn't there - she was a Lib Dem ffs.
There’s the thing. Some get off lightly and go through, whilst others are destroyed.
Because making ourselves America's b*tch has always worked out so well for us.
Has Putinguy1983 hacked your account?
Pretty much, yes, absolutely it has, though as the article says Truss has been out in front of Biden and Blinken, and not just behind following them. Johnson was too.
I think our foreign and security policy should be guided by our own interests, not Neocon talking points. On Russia, which represents a security threat to us, we should absolutely be standing up to Putin alongside America and anyone else who is up for it. Read through my posts, I have never said anything different. But the China-US rivalry is different, as China isn't a threat to our security, and frankly a lot of the bluster on the US side is down to their own sense of supremacy being threatened. That is their problem, not ours.
China absolutely is a threat to our security, even more than Russia is.
As horrendous as Putin's invasion of Ukraine is, China invading Taiwan would be an order of magnitude worse. Ukraine is a substantial grain exporter and Russia a substantial energy exporter so this war has helped fuel a cost of living crisis with energy and food, but Taiwan is the leading global supplier of high end electronic chips that run the modern economy and China is the leading global exporter full stop.
A China/Taiwan war would be utterly catastrophic for the global economy and thus our own security in a way that would absolutely dwarf our current crisis. Joining with the USA, Japan, Australia and other allies in deterring that risk is great value for money and is another reason why Putin's invasion of Ukraine must be seen to fail, to deter China too.
The world today is all interconnected, you can't look at one alone and ignore the rest of the globe.
The deterrence value of whatever paltry forces we could project in the Taiwan Strait is not going to be the difference between China invading Taiwan or not. This is the kind of Neocon talking points that got hundreds of British servicemen and women killed in Iraq. If the world economy is that dependent on key components from a geopolitical flash point I would suggest investment in supply diversification may represent a safer and cheaper course of action.
Kate Ferguson @kateferguson4 · 1h Liz Truss - a former Remainer turned Brexiteer - challenged on her switch
“I was wrong and I’m prepared to admit I was wrong”
====
Just pure horseshit. She doesn't mean she was wrong she means her side lost and so that's the end of it. That's different to being wrong. Has she really looked again at all the for and anti arguments and thought I have been persuaded I was wrong? No way.
I do hope that the English Conservatives keep banging on about Margaret Thatcher. The Scottish Conservatives hate it.
Everyone keeps banging on about Thatcher - left and right - because for good or for ill she did mark a decisive turning point in British politics in a way no other politician has remotely managed since. The left would say for the worse, the right for the better. They're both oversimplifications, but hey, politicians don't really do nuance.
It may be that the current crisis will see a leader emerge who has a similarly dramatic impact and then we will move on from Thatcher as she moved us on from Attlee. Looking at today's crop of politicians I have my doubts, but then there were no shortage of people who thought Thatcher would be an ineffectual lightweight and lucky to last one term in May 1979.
Maybe, but I can't help feeling Ms. Truss (for good or evil) is no Mrs Thatcher. Dennis Thatcher perhaps.
More like Carol Thatcher. Shouty and dim.
If only she’d behave like Mark Thatcher and get lost in a desert.
I do hope that the English Conservatives keep banging on about Margaret Thatcher. The Scottish Conservatives hate it.
Everyone keeps banging on about Thatcher - left and right - because for good or for ill she did mark a decisive turning point in British politics in a way no other politician has remotely managed since. The left would say for the worse, the right for the better. They're both oversimplifications, but hey, politicians don't really do nuance.
It may be that the current crisis will see a leader emerge who has a similarly dramatic impact and then we will move on from Thatcher as she moved us on from Attlee. Looking at today's crop of politicians I have my doubts, but then there were no shortage of people who thought Thatcher would be an ineffectual lightweight and lucky to last one term in May 1979.
Maybe, but I can't help feeling Ms. Truss (for good or evil) is no Mrs Thatcher. Dennis Thatcher perhaps.
Mr. Dickson, I did not say that only the Guardian banged on about Thatcher.
You referred to the English Conservatives banging on about her and referenced the Guardian.
It's fair to say many people do retain the fixation either good or bad with her.
It's also eyebrow-raising that you decry the lack of a Scottish national pension fund (Scotland is not, and was not during Thatcher's time, an independent, sovereign nation). Are you equally upset that the Scottish taxpayer alone was not lumbered with the cost of the financial crisis and ensuing price when HBOS and RBS collapsed when the Gordon Brown approach to financial regulation proved less than marvellous?
Comments
There’s no evidence for the suggestion of cabinet picks at this stage. It’s either opposition camp sh!t-stirring, or media sh!t-stirring.
I was very much Team Penny, I don’t think anyone thought she was perfect. I think most people thought that her many strengths outweighed her weaknesses. The viciousness of the onslaught of briefings and what masquerades as journalism was in no way proportionate. It’s a very serious stain on the broad centre right space. I’m the bitterest I’ve been as a party member in a long time.
Reportedly he wasn't happy with Sunak. If he has substantive doubts about how a Sunak Ministry would act then he has a duty to say so. If he says nothing, then it suggests that he's done a deal with Sunak that reassures him that Sunak won't be soft on Russia or China.
If they cannot do so it tells it's own story.
I actually wonder if Truss might in practice be less committed to supporting Ukraine because she would think given her previous hawkishness (which memorably included threatening to annex part of Russia) she could do without Wallace. And we all know she has no convictions whatsoever.
I'm afraid I'd personally prioritise rebuilding our defences above tax cuts. Yes, it will cost me but our long-term safety and security must come first or we'll end up becoming Reek.
(The issue with Sunak's offering is you get tax rises *and* possibly defence cuts.)
BTW there is a large close up pic of Liz in the inside pages of the Telgraph today which does her no favours. Her complexion is terrible.
But, they're no fans of China and are overtaking them in population this year and will be 50% bigger by 2050 and possibly the bigger economy.
We need to do whatever we can to strengthen ties with India as, empire histrionics aside, they basically share our core values.
The connection between a narrow section of the Tory party and certain newspaper editors who seem to have licence to print the most aggressive campaigns masquerading as news is one of the major problems we have in our democracy. It’s nasty, nasty stuff.
Normally Labour is the focus, but it was revealing to see this turned on Mourdaunt.
For all the talk of how the race might change and so forth, the simple fact she is currently ahead where it counts with the members.
Your 250-1 bet was astonishingly good, but my view is Sunak is too short right now.
She left the Lib Dems because it wasn't as advertised and was in two minds about Brexit before the vote.
That said, defence and security come first for me - even for 2.5 years - so if Rishi doesn't have something satisfactory to say on this then my vote is up for grabs.
And having the choice of 2 candidates who spent 6 months not resigning from a corrupt government, where do they go?
Labour should have no trouble destroying either of these.
So I feel neutral as to which will win the membership vote; inclined to look carefully at 'Labour most seats'.
Lots of others came to the same conclusion.
I very much doubt you're the only Conservative feeling bitter about it.
better because reasons”
Unusually for you, as you are typically eloquent and articulate, this is teen speak and doesn’t really mean anything.
Can you translate into something approaching plain English?
Party leaders generally get rather more of a chance to make their case.
Given our reliance on Taiwanese microchips to run the technology on which pretty much our entire civilisation is now dependent, I have to say I don't agree with your view that 'China isn't a threat to our security.'
If they do attack Taiwan we are more buggered than a reluctant Turkish conscript.
About the only positive of the war in Ukraine, in among the rather more numerous and upsetting negatives, is that the solidity of the west in supporting it seems to have caused Xi to wind his neck in over Taiwan.
Is the last sentence a sneer at comprehensives or a comment that she keeps mentioning it?
Most people of working age (including myself as a 40 something) have overall a very different view. I might be a child of Thatcher, but I was a teenager/young adult of Blair.
Prioritizing tax cuts over public services is the sure fire way to lose any election.
And given the moaning this morning on PM of Tories about their being given the same treatment that Tories give Labour pols - how unfair! how horrible!, this is very apposite.
'But the blue-on-blue attacks in the early days were far more vindictive. Ted Heath, her predecessor as leader, was openly cruel from the start. Before her first speech in parliament as leader of the opposition, he reserved the seat next to her and then failed to show up, so that when she looked around for support there would be no one there. Colleagues privately called her a “cultured pearl” – low-quality, not the real thing. “I used to warn them: ‘Once she gets into office, she won’t owe anything to any of you lot,’” says [Margaret] Beckett. “‘Although you may have elected her, you’re treating her like shit. If she doesn’t owe you anything, she’ll be able to do what she wants.’ And that’s what happened: once she got her feet under the table, she was away.”'
It may be that the current crisis will see a leader emerge who has a similarly dramatic impact and then we will move on from Thatcher as she moved us on from Attlee. Looking at today's crop of politicians I have my doubts, but then there were no shortage of people who thought Thatcher would be an ineffectual lightweight and lucky to last one term in May 1979.
Most strikingly for me about her tax policy. She prioritised paying for tax cuts over tax cuts.
The myth of Thatcher wasn't the PM Thatcher at all.
As horrendous as Putin's invasion of Ukraine is, China invading Taiwan would be an order of magnitude worse. Ukraine is a substantial grain exporter and Russia a substantial energy exporter so this war has helped fuel a cost of living crisis with energy and food, but Taiwan is the leading global supplier of high end electronic chips that run the modern economy and China is the leading global exporter full stop.
A China/Taiwan war would be utterly catastrophic for the global economy and thus our own security in a way that would absolutely dwarf our current crisis. Joining with the USA, Japan, Australia and other allies in deterring that risk is great value for money and is another reason why Putin's invasion of Ukraine must be seen to fail, to deter China too.
The world today is all interconnected, you can't look at one alone and ignore the rest of the globe.
As an aside, currently on the third and final part of a trilogy on the Seleukid Empire. They've fallen into infighting, causing a writ small version of what the Romans did to themselves when they consumed their strength in civil war.
I thnk the nastiest slur against Penny that the Mail run was to interview Penny's (now ex) husband's first wife who said she could tell a few things about Penny. It implied Penny was a home wreaker without any actual evidence. In contrast there was nothing about Liz and why the "Turnip Taliban" didn't want her as their MP.
The Scottish Labour offering to the electorate is unchanged since 2015. They don’t know what message to promote, so they just keep on playing the same old tune: No, No, No.
In fairness, that has meant that there has been a small SCon to SLab swing of approx 4 points as The Oaf scared folks off, but rising from the high teens to the low twenties isn’t going to gain Starmer a single Scottish seat.
I know what message Scottish Labour need to be promoting, and I am 99% confident that they won’t do it.
'The gay and trans community has always been close to my heart, and I've always striven in office to ensure that policies upheld the rights of these minorities. The debate has thrown up some more concerning aspects in recent years, and as a lifelong campaigner for women's rights, my approach to these issues has developed more nuance and caution. Here are some of the ways that my actions have reflected that:' etc.
A sinner that repenteth is a lot more appealing than a sinner that denyeth. And safe too - then there would have been no raking through old statements and interviews for gotchas.
I still maintain that the campaign wasn't well-timed, because Penny seems like she's going through something personal. She just seems very sad.
'I do love 1980s music and I do love karaoke'
Isabel Webster asks Tory leadership candidate Liz Truss about 'the person behind the face'.
📺 Freeview 236, Sky 515, Virgin 626
🖥 GB News on YouTube bit.ly/3vAYaw0
Brentford, tonight
Germany 2/7
Draw 5/1
Austria 11/1
That said, look at how someone like Kemi Badenoch really impressed in the leadership contest this time - who made “I will be blunt and tell the truth to you” her rhetorical style and came across as refreshing and exciting for that very reason. A politician who has clear ideas, who speaks more honestly and with conviction, and who tells people what they will do and follows through, might actually be something the country is ready for.
The only thing I will caution is that the media abhor and excoriate anyone who breaks the mold. I am not in any way a fan of Donald Trump, his actions, and some of the rubbish that came out of his mouth, but because he didn’t fit the mold and was more naturally combative and open with the media they had a field day attacking him over everything he said, a lot of which was justified, a lot of which probably wasn’t.
*Arguably technically correct, in the weasel wording he used, but weasel wording cuts very little ice.
We are far better working with friendly democracies with similar interests to our own like the USA, Japan, Australia, India etc than we are with dictatorships which are only interested in number one.
Didius Julianus just bought himself a short lifespan.
I know that @ToryJim has eloquently laid out what has made him bitter. But surely he will feel better when Lord Dacre is sworn in to the other place? That is the most important thing in his party after all. According to Paul Dacre.
There are some deep-rooted unpleasant traits of both the Left and the Right imo, which biased though I know I am, I will summarise as:
Right: Nasty, selfish, greedy.
Left: Smug, superior, controlling.
There, I've tried to balance it out.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/liz-truss-is-no-margaret-thatcher?
Tony Blair when he was young was an avowed Trotskist, while Darling, Milburn, Reid and Mandelson were all avowed Communists when they were young too. People change.
The Thatcher myth was built on her nicking North Sea Oil revenues.
Norwegian national pension fund = gargantuan
Scottish national pension fund = non-existent
Reason: Margaret Thatcher oil snatcher.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/18/liz-truss-roundhay-school-foreign-secretary-education
Johnson saw Ukraine as a Partygate "get out of jail free card". He raised his profile in Ukraine and due to our good fortune in importing Norwegian rather than Russian oil could appear slightly more hawkish than his European counterparts. Johnson's Ukrainian cheerleader profile was also hoisted high by his media flag wavers. Despite the Ukrainian refugees fiasco, he did OK in Ukraine, but no better than his successor will muster.
@kateferguson4
·
1h
Liz Truss - a former Remainer turned Brexiteer - challenged on her switch
“I was wrong and I’m prepared to admit I was wrong”
====
Just pure horseshit. She doesn't mean she was wrong she means her side lost and so that's the end of it. That's different to being wrong. Has she really looked again at all the for and anti arguments and thought I have been persuaded I was wrong? No way.
The wilderness beckons…
You referred to the English Conservatives banging on about her and referenced the Guardian.
It's fair to say many people do retain the fixation either good or bad with her.
It's also eyebrow-raising that you decry the lack of a Scottish national pension fund (Scotland is not, and was not during Thatcher's time, an independent, sovereign nation). Are you equally upset that the Scottish taxpayer alone was not lumbered with the cost of the financial crisis and ensuing price when HBOS and RBS collapsed when the Gordon Brown approach to financial regulation proved less than marvellous?