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The front pages on the Liar King’s desperate attempt to survive – politicalbetting.com

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  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,210
    So which way do the Tory rebels actually vote if Starmer requests a VONC?
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,313
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson will be back in Downing Street study by 8am to continue with his reshuffle, a senior aide tells @estwebber in Playbook

    Good luck with that…

    Not reshuffling with a full deck in any sense.
    when does HRH gently tell him........
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,469
    Bernard Jenkin says Boris needs his nearest and dearest to tell him it's over.

    Like Carrie? Now that's funny!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,888
    edited July 7

    Heathener: I must admit it's funny hearing someone talk about the joys of travelling, and then talking about the horrors of the business lounge not being up to snuff.

    How the other 1% live ....

    Yep I'm a champagne socialist. :smiley:

    I love flying business class on long haul because sleep is important to me. So I flatbed and sleep for many hours and wake up in a decent enough state to get going. When I don't sleep much I get very light-headed and discombobulated.

    However, to be equally fair to myself I should point out that I have Silver status with OneWorld which has been extended to 2024. So I can buy an economy ticket and still use the business lounges. It's a great perk. When I returned from Scotland in the autumn I flew back for, iirc, £20 with Avios points but I was able to use the business lounge. Made it a rather pleasant experience.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Enough is enough. This can’t go on.

    The chaos in No10, the breakdown of Cabinet collective responsibility, the abandonment of the Ministerial code, the defence of impropriety & defiance of Parliament are all insults to the Conservatism I believe in and stand for: https://twitter.com/GeorgeFreemanMP/status/1544929459286966272/photo/1
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,555

    As others observed yesterday:

    Mr Meeks:

    I’ve already made this point once but I’ll make it again. Given the last 36 hours, is it likely that the Tories would let Boris Johnson remain as Prime Minister while they select a new leader? Who would serve in his Cabinet?

    I don’t think so. So there will be a stopgap PM.


    https://twitter.com/alastairmeeks/status/1544879436952117253

    Surely key criterion is not wanting job permanently - which might favour May over Raab, for example.

    Or a permanent one is coronated.

    The other alternative is that there are several rounds of MP voting over a week and then extreme pressure is put on all the others to withdraw following the final round to skip the members vote.

    This only took 12 days for May in 2016.
    Too much needs doing for them to spend a couple of months having leadership hustings, only for the membership to vote for the least suitable of the two candidates.

    I see Brandon Lewis has resigned after all - but is there any point? It seems clear that Johnson isn't going to be shamed into going by resignations. The only sure way to get it done is to have a Commons vote of no confidence - and Tory MPs really should spend the next 24 hours deciding who will take over from Johnson when that is won, so that they have a replacement ready to go to the Palace.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,674

    DavidL said:

    Wake up, can't believe that this is still going on tbh. Don't recall anything quite like it. We have had the odd hiatus such as the period we had to wait for the Coalition Agreement to be signed but I can't recall a time when we simply did not have a functioning government because not enough people were willing to serve.

    The 1922 committee really need to get their act together and bring this farce to an end.

    I reckon you might have another two months of waking up to this dystopian nightmare.
    Conference is going to be fun if you are right. Buy popcorn futures.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Imagine being a Minister and not planning to resign today.
    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1544929599561371648
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    There needs to be a discussion about prosecuting Boris Johnson. A prosecution under ‘misconduct in public office’ laws is the only way politics and society can ever recover from what he’s done - and it will deter future leaders from such abuses ever again

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20260148.neil-mackay-talk-prosecuting-johnson/
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    Resignation count reaches 49, assuming that doesn't count sacked Gove that means we're up to a round 50 holders of Government jobs gone in the last couple of days. And the departures continue.

    I remain astonished that all the figures who have reportedly told Johnson to go haven't walked as well. It's an unprecedented mess.

    Didn't have enough time to type this before another resignation. Science Minister just gone. 50 and counting.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,674
    Roger said:

    Bernard Jenkin says Boris needs his nearest and dearest to tell him it's over.

    Like Carrie? Now that's funny!

    Perhaps a quick call to Canada?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    Foxy said:

    As others observed yesterday:

    Mr Meeks:

    I’ve already made this point once but I’ll make it again. Given the last 36 hours, is it likely that the Tories would let Boris Johnson remain as Prime Minister while they select a new leader? Who would serve in his Cabinet?

    I don’t think so. So there will be a stopgap PM.


    https://twitter.com/alastairmeeks/status/1544879436952117253

    Surely key criterion is not wanting job permanently - which might favour May over Raab, for example.

    Or a permanent one is coronated.

    The other alternative is that there are several rounds of MP voting over a week and then extreme pressure is put on all the others to withdraw following the final round to skip the members vote.

    This only took 12 days for May in 2016.
    Coronations do not have a great track record, looking at May and Brown. A proper debate on direction and policy is needed. Not that the nutcases of the Tory membership are the best judges.
    I had a quick peek at ConHome last night. If they are reflective of the Tory membership then expect some raving nutter to top the pile. Patel & Co seem to be too left-wing for them :D:D
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,888

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    As a realistic counter to Leon's 'everything is alright in the world of travel' here's a good piece on tourism in Bali.

    Bali went from over 6 million tourists in 2019 to 45 tourists in 2020. Yes, 45 tourists.

    The resident interviewed in the piece reckons it will take a decade to recover. My several friends in SE Asia think the same. The more optimistic suggest a decade to recover. Many say it will never return to how it was

    Yes, you can still travel. But covid has not gone away. Vaccine passes are required. Everywhere restrictions are far greater than they were. The tourist infrastructures have broken down. There is flight chaos in the UK and elsewhere. And a lot of the fun has been sucked out of it. Why have I not travelled much in the last 2 years? Quite simply, sitting on a long haul flight in a mask and going through a heap of aggro at overseas airports and hotels is the last thing I want to do when I travel. I go abroad to enjoy local cuisine and culture. To relax. To breathe the vibrancy of other worlds.

    In short, travel was fun. I have lived and travelled outside the UK most of my life, until covid hit. Until I'm convinced that from leaving my door to returning it will be a fun experience I shall continue to avoid it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61992300

    [...]

    Incidentally, the Scottish tourist industry recovered in no time. Far too bloody busy in fact. I blame Instagram, TikTok etc. The country is simply too photogenic.

    Yep I staycated in the Western Highlands last autumn. Took the wonderful overnight sleeper to Fort William. Had an absolutely glorious time.

    Aye it's a bonnie bonnie land. Love Scotland.
    Minor correction - you went on holiday to the Western Highlands.
    I abhor the phrase staycation. Original meaning was staying in your home and taking day trips.
    A holiday in the U.K. is still a holiday.
    I do them every year.

    Rant over.
    Words and meanings evolve and new words are coined. As The Bard knew.

    I staycated. Love it.

    Bazball. Glorious.

    etc. etc.

    ;)
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322

    So which way do the Tory rebels actually vote if Starmer requests a VONC?

    They vote against the govt. What choice do they have? It is so bad they just resigned from it so they can hardly endorse or support it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Deep in the bunker, someone is shortly going to suggest, 'PM why not call on Tory members to make their views heard at Parliament to stop the election result being stolen, I mean, fuck it right, no going back now...'
    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1544784820521287685
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,674

    Foxy said:

    As others observed yesterday:

    Mr Meeks:

    I’ve already made this point once but I’ll make it again. Given the last 36 hours, is it likely that the Tories would let Boris Johnson remain as Prime Minister while they select a new leader? Who would serve in his Cabinet?

    I don’t think so. So there will be a stopgap PM.


    https://twitter.com/alastairmeeks/status/1544879436952117253

    Surely key criterion is not wanting job permanently - which might favour May over Raab, for example.

    Or a permanent one is coronated.

    The other alternative is that there are several rounds of MP voting over a week and then extreme pressure is put on all the others to withdraw following the final round to skip the members vote.

    This only took 12 days for May in 2016.
    Coronations do not have a great track record, looking at May and Brown. A proper debate on direction and policy is needed. Not that the nutcases of the Tory membership are the best judges.
    I had a quick peek at ConHome last night. If they are reflective of the Tory membership then expect some raving nutter to top the pile. Patel & Co seem to be too left-wing for them :D:D
    Yes, I am trying to cover the truly raving in my book, but when there are so many it is hard to be green on them all.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Dominic Cummings not doing himself any favours on Twitter. I can understand that he’s enjoying this, but excessive emojis are just so yesterday. Can no one string a decent sentence together any more?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,162
    The 50th resignation from govt.

    George Freeman follows Brandon Lewis, Helen Whateley & Damian Hinds out the door this morning.

    The exodus shows no sign of abating as political crisis enters its third day…


    https://twitter.com/los_fisher/status/1544930585084403712
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,937
    DavidL said:

    Wake up, can't believe that this is still going on tbh. Don't recall anything quite like it. We have had the odd hiatus such as the period we had to wait for the Coalition Agreement to be signed but I can't recall a time when we simply did not have a functioning government because not enough people were willing to serve.

    The 1922 committee really need to get their act together and bring this farce to an end.

    Isn’t it extraordinary how those “illustrious” minds on the 1922 can’t see that by allowing this to drag on, they are allowing Johnson to poison their standing too. Same for the potential contenders that have still not come out against him. I can only conclude that most people in the Commons are all said and done, less than bright.

    Winner of the hour is James Forsyth’s wife. Quitting with dignity at the very first hint of scandal and now with the passage of time, relatively unscathed by association with Boris.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    The end of Johnson’s premiership simply confirms how it’s burnt like battery acid through established democratic norms and standards. It’s also a reminder of just how far the Conservative Party has drifted from traditional conservatism towards a reactionary populist nationalism.
    https://twitter.com/D_G_Alexander/status/1544931208223768576
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,162

    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson will be back in Downing Street study by 8am to continue with his reshuffle, a senior aide tells @estwebber in Playbook

    Good luck with that…

    Not reshuffling with a full deck in any sense.
    when does HRH gently tell him........
    HM….

  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,891

    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson will be back in Downing Street study by 8am to continue with his reshuffle, a senior aide tells @estwebber in Playbook

    Good luck with that…

    Not reshuffling with a full deck in any sense.
    when does HRH gently tell him........
    If I were HM I would be thinking it was the Tory party's job, not mine.

    Perhaps the 1922 committee will rethink its decision today, in the light of non-events.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    How joyous that the end of Johnson is going to come from a bunch of Tory MPs changing the rules to get a second vote because they didn't like the result of the first one. https://twitter.com/yaxleymellis/status/1544582585459920896/photo/1


  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Mordaunt drifting: now 5/1 from 4/1 an hour ago. Heavy laying, or heavy backing for a.n.other?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,778
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    Heathener said:

    As a realistic counter to Leon's 'everything is alright in the world of travel' here's a good piece on tourism in Bali.

    Bali went from over 6 million tourists in 2019 to 45 tourists in 2020. Yes, 45 tourists.

    The resident interviewed in the piece reckons it will take a decade to recover. My several friends in SE Asia think the same. The more optimistic suggest a decade to recover. Many say it will never return to how it was

    Yes, you can still travel. But covid has not gone away. Vaccine passes are required. Everywhere restrictions are far greater than they were. The tourist infrastructures have broken down. There is flight chaos in the UK and elsewhere. And a lot of the fun has been sucked out of it. Why have I not travelled much in the last 2 years? Quite simply, sitting on a long haul flight in a mask and going through a heap of aggro at overseas airports and hotels is the last thing I want to do when I travel. I go abroad to enjoy local cuisine and culture. To relax. To breathe the vibrancy of other worlds.

    In short, travel was fun. I have lived and travelled outside the UK most of my life, up to when covid hit. My last trip abroad was to Malaysia in February 2020. KL was already becoming a ghost town. Until I'm convinced that from leaving my door to returning it will be a fun experience I shall continue to avoid it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61992300

    My brief experience in 2021 was bad - too many anxiety inducing rules.
    My experience in 2022 was that it is fine; apart from the airport was depressing and everything was a bit more expensive.
    As long as the rules (vaccine passports, masks etc) go then it is fine.
    I would dispute 45 tourists in 2020.... the lockdown in Indonesia started in late March..... that implies that nil visitors from Jan, Feb and Mat.... SE asia is still a bit restricted but is open - you can fly in/out of nearly all countries as long as you are vaccinated..... job done.
    I'm sorry but this kind of thing lacks reality.

    I was in Malaysia in 2020, a country I know extremely well and have lived in. It was a pale, pale, shadow of what it was. Very little open, restrictions everywhere. Masks galore (for good reasons).

    And the airport business lounge, which has always been a joyous part of my experience was a godawful pain in the butt. No longer lovely buffets and relaxed atmosphere.

    A friend of mine went to Phuket recently and was welcomed at the airport by men in Hazmat suits. He was whisked away for testing and held by them in that state for a couple of hours. I kid you not. Good friend of mine in Bangkok says everything has shut down: all the tourist businesses have just gone.


    Yes you can travel. That wasn't the point of the piece, nor what I was saying. It's just no longer FUN.

    In my humble opinion.

    I never said “everything in travel is all right”. I said you can now travel quite easily, certainly in America, Europe and much of Asia. I know because I’ve just done it, for the last 3 months.

    Good morning @Heathener from my little patio by the river Rijeka, Montenegro


    Er are you sure it's called the Rijeka? That just means "river" in the local language. Next you'll be going up Gora mountain.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,888
    edited July 7
    Anyway, we have other more important things to discuss than overseas travel. I've shared a couple of pieces and aired my own views.

    No amount of pretty pictures from Leon is going to convince me otherwise. I took some simply stunning photos in the Highlands, especially when I was climbing Ben Nevis. And some magnificent views of the Glenfinnan Viaduct and Camusdarach 'Local Hero' beach. Some photos I took from the shoulder of the mighty Ben are imho more beautiful than anything Leon has shared on here. But I didn't post them on here and nor do I feel the need to. I don't think.

    Scotland is not yet overseas. As beautiful scenery as you will find anywhere in the world.

    p.s. Oh and the Settle Line from Leeds to Carlisle. Quite simply unbelievable I also went to the Dales last autumn and that Settle line railway journey has justifiably been voted the most scenic in the world.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Ministers now publicly turning down Cabinet posts https://twitter.com/davidtcdavies/status/1544920252168945665
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,333

    DavidL said:

    Wake up, can't believe that this is still going on tbh. Don't recall anything quite like it. We have had the odd hiatus such as the period we had to wait for the Coalition Agreement to be signed but I can't recall a time when we simply did not have a functioning government because not enough people were willing to serve.

    The 1922 committee really need to get their act together and bring this farce to an end.

    I reckon you might have another two months of waking up to this dystopian nightmare.
    No, it will be resolved next week at the latest but it really shouldn't take that long.
  • MartinVegasMartinVegas Posts: 13
    edited July 7
    Here's my amateur opinion on why Johnson is hanging on.

    He knows the gig is up. It's mate-in-two-against-any-defence.

    However, rather than resign, the story going forward will be much different if he is instead VONCd by the 1922 changing the rules, either today or Monday.

    Firstly, the story will all be about him being VONCd. Why he's being VONCd (Pincher, Partygate or a hundred other scandals) will be secondary. And to a great mass of the public, that's the story he'll pitch. He was unfairly robbed by second-rate politicians who changed the rules just to get rid of him.

    It's the Trump playbook. You didn't lose, the game was rigged against you by cheats. I don't think Johnson has the same bizarre 'I never lost' core of his personality like Trump, but he's also seen how you can become the Ayatollah in exile by doing so.

    So he get's VONCd, and hangs around in the background as the potential saviour as the country goes to the dogs with inflation, strikes and gas bills.

    Thatcher fantasized about doing this herself but she was stymied because firstly she resigned, and secondly she made it known Major was her successor. Then Major went and won the next election anyway.

    Johnson has worked this out. He'll endorse nobody and keep his team of sycophants (Mogg, Dorries etc.) around to brief against the new PM. Undermine enough and hopefully you have a hung parliament with Labour in government and Johnson is the chosen one to reclaim the majority.

    Will it work? I doubt it. But I wouldn't bet against Trump winning in 2024 either.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    Heathener said:

    Heathener: I must admit it's funny hearing someone talk about the joys of travelling, and then talking about the horrors of the business lounge not being up to snuff.

    How the other 1% live ....

    Yep I'm a champagne socialist. :smiley:

    I love flying business class on long haul because sleep is important to me. So I flatbed and sleep for many hours and wake up in a decent enough state to get going. When I don't sleep much I get very light-headed and discombobulated.

    However, to be equally fair to myself I should point out that I have Silver status with OneWorld which has been extended to 2024. So I can buy an economy ticket and still use the business lounges. It's a great perk. When I returned from Scotland in the autumn I flew back for, iirc, £20 with Avios points but I was able to use the business lounge. Made it a rather pleasant experience.

    But a lot of what you’re saying is frankly untrue

    eg “masks in restaurants and bars”

    I’ve been in eight countries in 3 continents in 10 weeks and in none of them was anyone wearing masks in that setting. Even Thailand, perhaps THE most mask-eager country on earth, has now legally abandoned them

    Outside a few hard cases - China, Japan etc - the world has reopened

    Is it glitchy? Yes. But not massively so. It feels to me that you’re PERSONALLY still scared of travel - and you are justifying that by telling yourself it’s hell out of there

    But please continue to stay home. The rest of us are enjoying a somewhat quieter, sweeter world. Today I am walking down to the Rijeka River for a swim. Bliss
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,937
    50 resignations from 120. At a time when “we are facing the most serious military threat in Europe since the Second World War”.

    Can’t this joker see that the implosion of his government is to the benefit of only one person? His opposite number in Moscow.

    What a selfish donkey D he is.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,584
    Add George Freeman to the catalogue of resignations
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,555
    Scott_xP said:

    Imagine being a Minister and not planning to resign today.
    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1544929599561371648

    Do we really think that 75 resignations would shame Johnson into resigning, when 45 resignations weren't enough?

    It's past time to rely on the traditional informal methods. MPs need to turn to the formal procedural methods available to them - a Commons Vote of No Confidence.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,425

    So which way do the Tory rebels actually vote if Starmer requests a VONC?

    They vote against the govt. What choice do they have? It is so bad they just resigned from it so they can hardly endorse or support it.
    They support the concept of a conservative government, just not this one.

    And vote for it

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,594
    What a weird 24 hours
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,313

    Here's my amateur opinion on why Johnson is hanging on.

    He knows the gig is up. It's mate-in-two-against-any-defence.

    However, rather than resign, the story going forward will be much different if he is instead VONCd by the 1922 changing the rules, either today or Monday.

    Firstly, the story will all be about him being VONCd. Why he's being VONCd (Pincher, Partygate or a hundred other scandals) will be secondary. And to a great mass of the public, that's the story he'll pitch. He was unfairly robbed by second-rate politicians who changed the rules just to get rid of him.

    It's the Trump playbook. You didn't lose, the game was rigged against you by cheats. I don't think Johnson has the same bizarre 'I never lost' core of his personality like Trump, but he's also seen how you can become the Ayatollah in exile by doing so.

    So he get's VONCd, and hangs around in the background as the potential saviour as the country goes to the dogs with inflation, strikes and gas bills.

    Thatcher fantasized about doing this herself but she was stymied because firstly she resigned, and secondly she made it known Major was her successor. Then Major went and won the next election anyway.

    Johnson has worked this out. He'll endorse nobody and keep his team of sycophants (Mogg, Dorries etc.) around to brief against the new PM. Undermine enough and hopefully you have a hung parliament with Labour in government and Johnson is the chosen one to reclaim the majority.

    Will it work? I doubt it. But I wouldn't bet against Trump winning in 2024 either.

    it looks pretty good to me.... and it makes him more cash and plays to his vanity. he'll be writing a book just about the betrayal (and thats before the memoir)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Foxy said:
    That is excellent
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,828
    Nigelb said:

    Question for @rcs1000 - do you think US inflation might have peaked ?
    They are in a completely different place to Europe when it comes to energy prices, something that currently dominates our worldview.

    Once people decide they can’t or don’t want to buy stuff, a scenario of inflation quickly turning to deflation isn’t unrealistic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,162
    Lower than the Tories:
    THE SNP staffer who was inappropriately touched by ex-Nats chief whip Patrick Grady has been threatened with disciplinary action by party bosses.

    But the victim - aged 19 at the time - was furious about issues including Grady remaining as chief whip until 2021, three years after SNP Commons leader Ian Blackford found out about the incident and tried to deal with it informally.

    In a new twist, The Scottish Sun understands that today, the staffer was warned he faced misconduct action after he sent an email to MPs and staff criticising the SNP response to the scandal..


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/9120310/snp-staffer-patrick-grady-disciplinary-action/
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 335
    The Daily Mail - at least the online version - has turned against him now and describes his efforts to stay on as "farcical".
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,555
    Forget the reputation of the Conservative Party - this is now at the stage of doing real damage to Britain's reputation. We need a new PM no later than before the weekend, and ideally today.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,425
    Scott_xP said:

    How joyous that the end of Johnson is going to come from a bunch of Tory MPs changing the rules to get a second vote because they didn't like the result of the first one. https://twitter.com/yaxleymellis/status/1544582585459920896/photo/1


    They are different cases, of course, but it’s still an amusing quip
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    The shortest Scottish name is the purple-faced lackey Alister Jack. He’s 150/1 and as useful as a Mensa application form at a Cabinet meeting.

    Only other one I can spot is Ruth Davidson, at 400/1. She must be loving this.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    Heathener said:

    As a realistic counter to Leon's 'everything is alright in the world of travel' here's a good piece on tourism in Bali.

    Bali went from over 6 million tourists in 2019 to 45 tourists in 2020. Yes, 45 tourists.

    The resident interviewed in the piece reckons it will take a decade to recover. My several friends in SE Asia think the same. The more optimistic suggest a decade to recover. Many say it will never return to how it was

    Yes, you can still travel. But covid has not gone away. Vaccine passes are required. Everywhere restrictions are far greater than they were. The tourist infrastructures have broken down. There is flight chaos in the UK and elsewhere. And a lot of the fun has been sucked out of it. Why have I not travelled much in the last 2 years? Quite simply, sitting on a long haul flight in a mask and going through a heap of aggro at overseas airports and hotels is the last thing I want to do when I travel. I go abroad to enjoy local cuisine and culture. To relax. To breathe the vibrancy of other worlds.

    In short, travel was fun. I have lived and travelled outside the UK most of my life, up to when covid hit. My last trip abroad was to Malaysia in February 2020. KL was already becoming a ghost town. Until I'm convinced that from leaving my door to returning it will be a fun experience I shall continue to avoid it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61992300

    My brief experience in 2021 was bad - too many anxiety inducing rules.
    My experience in 2022 was that it is fine; apart from the airport was depressing and everything was a bit more expensive.
    As long as the rules (vaccine passports, masks etc) go then it is fine.
    I would dispute 45 tourists in 2020.... the lockdown in Indonesia started in late March..... that implies that nil visitors from Jan, Feb and Mat.... SE asia is still a bit restricted but is open - you can fly in/out of nearly all countries as long as you are vaccinated..... job done.
    I'm sorry but this kind of thing lacks reality.

    I was in Malaysia in 2020, a country I know extremely well and have lived in. It was a pale, pale, shadow of what it was. Very little open, restrictions everywhere. Masks galore (for good reasons).

    And the airport business lounge, which has always been a joyous part of my experience was a godawful pain in the butt. No longer lovely buffets and relaxed atmosphere.

    A friend of mine went to Phuket recently and was welcomed at the airport by men in Hazmat suits. He was whisked away for testing and held by them in that state for a couple of hours. I kid you not. Good friend of mine in Bangkok says everything has shut down: all the tourist businesses have just gone.


    Yes you can travel. That wasn't the point of the piece, nor what I was saying. It's just no longer FUN.

    In my humble opinion.

    I never said “everything in travel is all right”. I said you can now travel quite easily, certainly in America, Europe and much of Asia. I know because I’ve just done it, for the last 3 months.

    Good morning @Heathener from my little patio by the river Rijeka, Montenegro


    Er are you sure it's called the Rijeka? That just means "river" in the local language. Next you'll be going up Gora mountain.
    Lol. You’re probably right. All I know is that I asked the name of the river of the nice couple that run these (amazing) apartments and they don’t speak a word of English but they smiled and nodded and said “da, Rijeka!”

    We’re they just saying “Yes, there’s a river”?

  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 628
    edited July 7
    Another 4 as The Rebel XI has now hit an unbeaten 50 with a sumptuous cover drive to the boundary from George Freeman.

    The Boris XI looking at an innings defeat ,,,
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322

    So which way do the Tory rebels actually vote if Starmer requests a VONC?

    They vote against the govt. What choice do they have? It is so bad they just resigned from it so they can hardly endorse or support it.
    They support the concept of a conservative government, just not this one.

    And vote for it

    If they vote for this one their careers are over
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Frosty the GO MAN...

    Damning thread by former PM ally Lord Frost who says Boris Johnson must go now by whatever means possible as he is doing untold damage. Adds he cannot stay on while a new leader is found: https://twitter.com/davidghfrost/status/1544930117784403968
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,828
    Even the loyalists are resigning this morning.

    Surely the reason Gove was sacked is simply that the clown couldn’t cope psychologically with the prospect that Gove would do for him again?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,888
    edited July 7
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener: I must admit it's funny hearing someone talk about the joys of travelling, and then talking about the horrors of the business lounge not being up to snuff.

    How the other 1% live ....

    Yep I'm a champagne socialist. :smiley:

    I love flying business class on long haul because sleep is important to me. So I flatbed and sleep for many hours and wake up in a decent enough state to get going. When I don't sleep much I get very light-headed and discombobulated.

    However, to be equally fair to myself I should point out that I have Silver status with OneWorld which has been extended to 2024. So I can buy an economy ticket and still use the business lounges. It's a great perk. When I returned from Scotland in the autumn I flew back for, iirc, £20 with Avios points but I was able to use the business lounge. Made it a rather pleasant experience.

    [...]

    But please continue to stay home. The rest of us are enjoying a somewhat quieter, sweeter world. Today I am walking down to the Rijeka River for a swim. Bliss
    No that's fine. But in that case, return the favour by keeping it to yourself. It all comes across as a bit too desperate. 'This is all wonderful. Honest'.

    If it was that wonderful you wouldn't be parked up on here all the time posting photos.

    Just my view, although it's not just me. My friends in far flung places say that it's not worth bothering at the moment, not for something truly immersive anyway. Don't do your bullying expletive ridden default response please.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Scott_xP said:

    How joyous that the end of Johnson is going to come from a bunch of Tory MPs changing the rules to get a second vote because they didn't like the result of the first one. https://twitter.com/yaxleymellis/status/1544582585459920896/photo/1


    Scots had noticed.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Apparently, Johnson's problem is he's too woke. 😶 https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1544933976720261120/photo/1
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,313
    IanB2 said:

    Even the loyalists are resigning this morning.

    Surely the reason Gove was sacked is simply that the clown couldn’t cope psychologically with the prospect that Gove would do for him again?

    Makes Gove a good runner for next leader IMO
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    Heathener said:

    Anyway, we have other more important things to discuss than overseas travel. I've shared a couple of pieces and aired my own views.

    No amount of pretty pictures from Leon is going to convince me otherwise. I took some simply stunning photos in the Highlands, especially when I was climbing Ben Nevis. And some magnificent views of the Glenfinnan Viaduct and Camusdarach 'Local Hero' beach. Some photos I took from the shoulder of the mighty Ben are imho more beautiful than anything Leon has shared on here. But I didn't post them on here and nor do I feel the need to. I don't think.

    Scotland is not yet overseas. As beautiful scenery as you will find anywhere in the world.

    p.s. Oh and the Settle Line from Leeds to Carlisle. Quite simply unbelievable I also went to the Dales last autumn and that Settle line railway journey has justifiably been voted the most scenic in the world.


    You are CONSUMED with jealousy
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    .

    As others observed yesterday:

    Mr Meeks:

    I’ve already made this point once but I’ll make it again. Given the last 36 hours, is it likely that the Tories would let Boris Johnson remain as Prime Minister while they select a new leader? Who would serve in his Cabinet?

    I don’t think so. So there will be a stopgap PM.


    https://twitter.com/alastairmeeks/status/1544879436952117253

    Surely key criterion is not wanting job permanently - which might favour May over Raab, for example.

    Or a permanent one is coronated.

    The other alternative is that there are several rounds of MP voting over a week and then extreme pressure is put on all the others to withdraw following the final round to skip the members vote.

    This only took 12 days for May in 2016.
    Too much needs doing for them to spend a couple of months having leadership hustings, only for the membership to vote for the least suitable of the two candidates.

    I see Brandon Lewis has resigned after all - but is there any point? It seems clear that Johnson isn't going to be shamed into going by resignations. The only sure way to get it done is to have a Commons vote of no confidence - and Tory MPs really should spend the next 24 hours deciding who will take over from Johnson when that is won, so that they have a replacement ready to go to the Palace.
    The party has very clearly demonstrated that it's lost that kind of political ruthlessness.
    A coronation might be possible were there a clear consensus candidate. There isn't.

    And without that, no VONC in the Commons.

    A caretaker such as May is the only real solution to avoiding months of absurdity.
    (Though even then we'll have their hustings...)

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,828
    Voters aren’t going to forget all of this in a hurry.

    Tory most seats at the next GE is surely a screaming lay @1.9
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,071
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener: I must admit it's funny hearing someone talk about the joys of travelling, and then talking about the horrors of the business lounge not being up to snuff.

    How the other 1% live ....

    Yep I'm a champagne socialist. :smiley:

    I love flying business class on long haul because sleep is important to me. So I flatbed and sleep for many hours and wake up in a decent enough state to get going. When I don't sleep much I get very light-headed and discombobulated.

    However, to be equally fair to myself I should point out that I have Silver status with OneWorld which has been extended to 2024. So I can buy an economy ticket and still use the business lounges. It's a great perk. When I returned from Scotland in the autumn I flew back for, iirc, £20 with Avios points but I was able to use the business lounge. Made it a rather pleasant experience.

    [...]

    But please continue to stay home. The rest of us are enjoying a somewhat quieter, sweeter world. Today I am walking down to the Rijeka River for a swim. Bliss
    No that's fine. But in that case, return the favour by keeping it to yourself. It all comes across as a bit too desperate. 'This is all wonderful. Honest'

    If it was that wonderful you wouldn't be parked up on here all the time posting photos.

    Just my view. Don't do your bullying expletive ridden default response please.
    Oh lordy. you cannot help yourself, can you? That last sentence was utterly unnecessary.

    Anyway, I personally like the little travelogues we get on here. They're not strictly necessary, but as long as there are not too many of them it adds to the site IMO.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,425
    Scott_xP said:

    Ministers now publicly turning down Cabinet posts https://twitter.com/davidtcdavies/status/1544920252168945665

    “Never a dull moment in your government” 😂
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    The best way to get Big Dog off the porch, now, is surely for everyone to refuse to serve. If he can’t form a government, he has to go. That’s it. Otherwise the £ will tank etc etc etc etc

    I reckon he will go today
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,888
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Anyway, we have other more important things to discuss than overseas travel. I've shared a couple of pieces and aired my own views.

    No amount of pretty pictures from Leon is going to convince me otherwise. I took some simply stunning photos in the Highlands, especially when I was climbing Ben Nevis. And some magnificent views of the Glenfinnan Viaduct and Camusdarach 'Local Hero' beach. Some photos I took from the shoulder of the mighty Ben are imho more beautiful than anything Leon has shared on here. But I didn't post them on here and nor do I feel the need to. I don't think.

    Scotland is not yet overseas. As beautiful scenery as you will find anywhere in the world.

    p.s. Oh and the Settle Line from Leeds to Carlisle. Quite simply unbelievable I also went to the Dales last autumn and that Settle line railway journey has justifiably been voted the most scenic in the world.


    You are CONSUMED with jealousy
    Of your life? No, really I'm not. I don't actually believe you are that happy. Just my personal view and if I'm wrong then I apologise but I don't expect you to be honest about that on here.

    I had a chance to go travelling again this summer but I've turned it down. Another day.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248

    Here's my amateur opinion on why Johnson is hanging on.

    He knows the gig is up. It's mate-in-two-against-any-defence.

    However, rather than resign, the story going forward will be much different if he is instead VONCd by the 1922 changing the rules, either today or Monday.

    Firstly, the story will all be about him being VONCd. Why he's being VONCd (Pincher, Partygate or a hundred other scandals) will be secondary. And to a great mass of the public, that's the story he'll pitch. He was unfairly robbed by second-rate politicians who changed the rules just to get rid of him.

    It's the Trump playbook. You didn't lose, the game was rigged against you by cheats. I don't think Johnson has the same bizarre 'I never lost' core of his personality like Trump, but he's also seen how you can become the Ayatollah in exile by doing so.

    So he get's VONCd, and hangs around in the background as the potential saviour as the country goes to the dogs with inflation, strikes and gas bills.

    Thatcher fantasized about doing this herself but she was stymied because firstly she resigned, and secondly she made it known Major was her successor. Then Major went and won the next election anyway.

    Johnson has worked this out. He'll endorse nobody and keep his team of sycophants (Mogg, Dorries etc.) around to brief against the new PM. Undermine enough and hopefully you have a hung parliament with Labour in government and Johnson is the chosen one to reclaim the majority.

    Will it work? I doubt it. But I wouldn't bet against Trump winning in 2024 either.

    Food for thought. Sounds plausible.

    Eton sounds like a frightful waste of money, turning out wee shits like this. The parents must hate their offspring.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    I don’t see how this helps Wallace’s or Truss’s leadership ambitions. If they’re seeking to inherit all the Johnson supporters… well, there aren’t very many of them left, so what’s the point?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,162
    Not just resignation letters this morning, but MPs also making it public that they refused to fill the vacant cabinet positions 👇

    https://twitter.com/sophyridgesky/status/1544934724015194114
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,937
    IanB2 said:

    Voters aren’t going to forget all of this in a hurry.

    Tory most seats at the next GE is surely a screaming lay @1.9

    Two years to the next election will involve a lot of water going under bridges. But yes, unless almost all the current Current cabinet are firmly away from the public mind by the next election then it’s surely going to be a hammering.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,826

    Scott_xP said:

    Imagine being a Minister and not planning to resign today.
    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1544929599561371648

    Do we really think that 75 resignations would shame Johnson into resigning, when 45 resignations weren't enough?

    It's past time to rely on the traditional informal methods. MPs need to turn to the formal procedural methods available to them - a Commons Vote of No Confidence.
    Once again why should Labour do that? What do they gain by solving what is a Conservative party problem?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,584
    JACK_W said:

    Another 4 as The Rebel XI has now hit an unbeaten 50 with a sumptuous cover drive to the boundary from George Freeman.

    The Boris XI looking at an innings defeat ,,,

    Arlott of commentary about it too
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    As a realistic counter to Leon's 'everything is alright in the world of travel' here's a good piece on tourism in Bali.

    Bali went from over 6 million tourists in 2019 to 45 tourists in 2020. Yes, 45 tourists.

    The resident interviewed in the piece reckons it will take a decade to recover. My several friends in SE Asia think the same. The more optimistic suggest a decade to recover. Many say it will never return to how it was

    Yes, you can still travel. But covid has not gone away. Vaccine passes are required. Everywhere restrictions are far greater than they were. The tourist infrastructures have broken down. There is flight chaos in the UK and elsewhere. And a lot of the fun has been sucked out of it. Why have I not travelled much in the last 2 years? Quite simply, sitting on a long haul flight in a mask and going through a heap of aggro at overseas airports and hotels is the last thing I want to do when I travel. I go abroad to enjoy local cuisine and culture. To relax. To breathe the vibrancy of other worlds.

    In short, travel was fun. I have lived and travelled outside the UK most of my life, until covid hit. Until I'm convinced that from leaving my door to returning it will be a fun experience I shall continue to avoid it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61992300

    [...]

    Incidentally, the Scottish tourist industry recovered in no time. Far too bloody busy in fact. I blame Instagram, TikTok etc. The country is simply too photogenic.

    Yep I staycated in the Western Highlands last autumn. Took the wonderful overnight sleeper to Fort William. Had an absolutely glorious time.

    Aye it's a bonnie bonnie land. Love Scotland.
    Ah, the sleeper! God bless her.

    My profoundly Anglophile Swedish wife once took it from Fort William to Liverpool (!! don’t ask - Swedes are bonkers). She totally loved it. The journey itself was a sleepless, noisy, juddery trial of endurance, but OMG she just adored the cute little eccentric characters and customs. Like taking a journey back into the 1950s.

    I know that part of the world very well. Must’ve canvassed half the doors in Lochaber, and that ain’t easy 😉
    Haha excellent about the canvassing.

    The Caledonian Sleeper has had a total revamp and is now absolutely stunning. I have been trying not to tell people as I don't want the secret out. But it's now superb. Certainly not noisy.

    I had a wonderful deluxe cabin with fresh clean sheets and an ensuite shower room. On a train!

    Waking up to a view across the Trossachs and the Rannoch Moor took my breath away.

    Highly recommended.

    https://www.sleeper.scot/

    # Champagne socialist
    Oj! That’s Roger’s tag.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,888

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener: I must admit it's funny hearing someone talk about the joys of travelling, and then talking about the horrors of the business lounge not being up to snuff.

    How the other 1% live ....

    Yep I'm a champagne socialist. :smiley:

    I love flying business class on long haul because sleep is important to me. So I flatbed and sleep for many hours and wake up in a decent enough state to get going. When I don't sleep much I get very light-headed and discombobulated.

    However, to be equally fair to myself I should point out that I have Silver status with OneWorld which has been extended to 2024. So I can buy an economy ticket and still use the business lounges. It's a great perk. When I returned from Scotland in the autumn I flew back for, iirc, £20 with Avios points but I was able to use the business lounge. Made it a rather pleasant experience.

    [...]

    But please continue to stay home. The rest of us are enjoying a somewhat quieter, sweeter world. Today I am walking down to the Rijeka River for a swim. Bliss
    No that's fine. But in that case, return the favour by keeping it to yourself. It all comes across as a bit too desperate. 'This is all wonderful. Honest'

    If it was that wonderful you wouldn't be parked up on here all the time posting photos.

    Just my view. Don't do your bullying expletive ridden default response please.
    Oh lordy. you cannot help yourself, can you? That last sentence was utterly unnecessary.

    Anyway, I personally like the little travelogues we get on here. They're not strictly necessary, but as long as there are not too many of them it adds to the site IMO.
    Unless or until you have been on the receiving end of bullying you would not understand.

    Sir Keir got the tone of that absolutely right yesterday. When you have been abused by a man, or in my case also raped, it teaches you to watch for signs of bullying demeanour. The default response to turn to CAPS LOCK, or use swear words, or opprobrium is bullying behaviour and I hesitated therefore to respond to Leon because I feared he would do it again. I don't like it and it tends to drive me away from here. It literally leaves me shaking with fear and ruins my day. If you have some decency you might just pause for a moment over your keys and listen to me as a woman who has been on the receiving end.

    Anyway, we have other things to discuss. I aired a travel piece that was thoughtful, I felt.

    x
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,071
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Imagine being a Minister and not planning to resign today.
    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1544929599561371648

    Do we really think that 75 resignations would shame Johnson into resigning, when 45 resignations weren't enough?

    It's past time to rely on the traditional informal methods. MPs need to turn to the formal procedural methods available to them - a Commons Vote of No Confidence.
    Once again why should Labour do that? What do they gain by solving what is a Conservative party problem?
    *If* this plunges the country into a crisis, then they might want to intervene to help the country. Being the grown-up in a room full of children can be useful.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    Leon said:

    The best way to get Big Dog off the porch, now, is surely for everyone to refuse to serve. If he can’t form a government, he has to go. That’s it. Otherwise the £ will tank etc etc etc etc

    I reckon he will go today

    No he won't. He will have to be forced out, and his pathetic party still won't do it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,162
    Johnson desperately wants cash – his lifestyle and his income are not remotely aligned and he thinks he’s ‘broke’. And yet this last 48 hours has trashed his post-PM value.

    https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/1544933553019944961

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,828
    edited July 7

    Here's my amateur opinion on why Johnson is hanging on.

    He knows the gig is up. It's mate-in-two-against-any-defence.

    However, rather than resign, the story going forward will be much different if he is instead VONCd by the 1922 changing the rules, either today or Monday.

    Firstly, the story will all be about him being VONCd. Why he's being VONCd (Pincher, Partygate or a hundred other scandals) will be secondary. And to a great mass of the public, that's the story he'll pitch. He was unfairly robbed by second-rate politicians who changed the rules just to get rid of him.

    It's the Trump playbook. You didn't lose, the game was rigged against you by cheats. I don't think Johnson has the same bizarre 'I never lost' core of his personality like Trump, but he's also seen how you can become the Ayatollah in exile by doing so.

    So he get's VONCd, and hangs around in the background as the potential saviour as the country goes to the dogs with inflation, strikes and gas bills.

    Thatcher fantasized about doing this herself but she was stymied because firstly she resigned, and secondly she made it known Major was her successor. Then Major went and won the next election anyway.

    Johnson has worked this out. He'll endorse nobody and keep his team of sycophants (Mogg, Dorries etc.) around to brief against the new PM. Undermine enough and hopefully you have a hung parliament with Labour in government and Johnson is the chosen one to reclaim the majority.

    Will it work? I doubt it. But I wouldn't bet against Trump winning in 2024 either.

    Brits aren’t Americans. And Conservative voters aren’t Republican voters.

    He is trashing his reputation, and most likely that of his party, beyond repair. It’s going to be a generation before they recover from this. With any luck, this will forever tarnish Brexit into the bargain.

    One could almost say that we are watching the ending of an era before our eyes, but don’t realise it yet.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,179
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    Heathener said:

    As a realistic counter to Leon's 'everything is alright in the world of travel' here's a good piece on tourism in Bali.

    Bali went from over 6 million tourists in 2019 to 45 tourists in 2020. Yes, 45 tourists.

    The resident interviewed in the piece reckons it will take a decade to recover. My several friends in SE Asia think the same. The more optimistic suggest a decade to recover. Many say it will never return to how it was

    Yes, you can still travel. But covid has not gone away. Vaccine passes are required. Everywhere restrictions are far greater than they were. The tourist infrastructures have broken down. There is flight chaos in the UK and elsewhere. And a lot of the fun has been sucked out of it. Why have I not travelled much in the last 2 years? Quite simply, sitting on a long haul flight in a mask and going through a heap of aggro at overseas airports and hotels is the last thing I want to do when I travel. I go abroad to enjoy local cuisine and culture. To relax. To breathe the vibrancy of other worlds.

    In short, travel was fun. I have lived and travelled outside the UK most of my life, up to when covid hit. My last trip abroad was to Malaysia in February 2020. KL was already becoming a ghost town. Until I'm convinced that from leaving my door to returning it will be a fun experience I shall continue to avoid it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61992300

    My brief experience in 2021 was bad - too many anxiety inducing rules.
    My experience in 2022 was that it is fine; apart from the airport was depressing and everything was a bit more expensive.
    As long as the rules (vaccine passports, masks etc) go then it is fine.
    I would dispute 45 tourists in 2020.... the lockdown in Indonesia started in late March..... that implies that nil visitors from Jan, Feb and Mat.... SE asia is still a bit restricted but is open - you can fly in/out of nearly all countries as long as you are vaccinated..... job done.
    I'm sorry but this kind of thing lacks reality.

    I was in Malaysia in 2020, a country I know extremely well and have lived in. It was a pale, pale, shadow of what it was. Very little open, restrictions everywhere. Masks galore (for good reasons).

    And the airport business lounge, which has always been a joyous part of my experience was a godawful pain in the butt. No longer lovely buffets and relaxed atmosphere.

    A friend of mine went to Phuket recently and was welcomed at the airport by men in Hazmat suits. He was whisked away for testing and held by them in that state for a couple of hours. I kid you not. Good friend of mine in Bangkok says everything has shut down: all the tourist businesses have just gone.


    Yes you can travel. That wasn't the point of the piece, nor what I was saying. It's just no longer FUN.

    In my humble opinion.

    I never said “everything in travel is all right”. I said you can now travel quite easily, certainly in America, Europe and much of Asia. I know because I’ve just done it, for the last 3 months.

    Good morning @Heathener from my little patio by the river Rijeka, Montenegro


    Er are you sure it's called the Rijeka? That just means "river" in the local language. Next you'll be going up Gora mountain.
    Lol. You’re probably right. All I know is that I asked the name of the river of the nice couple that run these (amazing) apartments and they don’t speak a word of English but they smiled and nodded and said “da, Rijeka!”

    We’re they just saying “Yes, there’s a river”?

    The River Avons say hello!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,679
    Mr. Pigeon, hence why the 1922 Committee have to change the rules immediately. They can't rely on reason, national interest, or dignity on the PM's part to persuade him to do the right thing.

    He doesn't have the intelligence or the decency to do it.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,888
    Personally I don't think failing to form a Government will deter Boris in the least.

    That's not the kind of thing which will bother him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener: I must admit it's funny hearing someone talk about the joys of travelling, and then talking about the horrors of the business lounge not being up to snuff.

    How the other 1% live ....

    Yep I'm a champagne socialist. :smiley:

    I love flying business class on long haul because sleep is important to me. So I flatbed and sleep for many hours and wake up in a decent enough state to get going. When I don't sleep much I get very light-headed and discombobulated.

    However, to be equally fair to myself I should point out that I have Silver status with OneWorld which has been extended to 2024. So I can buy an economy ticket and still use the business lounges. It's a great perk. When I returned from Scotland in the autumn I flew back for, iirc, £20 with Avios points but I was able to use the business lounge. Made it a rather pleasant experience.

    [...]

    But please continue to stay home. The rest of us are enjoying a somewhat quieter, sweeter world. Today I am walking down to the Rijeka River for a swim. Bliss
    No that's fine. But in that case, return the favour by keeping it to yourself. It all comes across as a bit too desperate. 'This is all wonderful. Honest'.

    If it was that wonderful you wouldn't be parked up on here all the time posting photos.

    Just my view, although it's not just me. My friends in far flung places say that it's not worth bothering at the moment, not for something truly immersive anyway. Don't do your bullying expletive ridden default response please.
    “Not for something truly immersive”

    Jeez

    It turns out your definition of *truly immersive* travel is: “when I go abroad I like to truly immerse myself in the buffet spread of the business lounge, and if I can’t do that I’m not going”

    Try going budget? That incredible view, in this wonderful apartment, above the oxbow of the Rijeka Crnojevića, is costing me £29 a night. But maybe that’s TOO immersive for you. There’s no business class buffet
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,469
    edited July 7
    The Tory Party really are disgusting. Rats off a sinking ship doesn't begin to describe it. I don't think members of the public have any idea how self sereving MPs really are. It's embarrassing to listen to.

    Duck houses on expenses are but nothing compared to this lot. Looking back Boris was a perfect embodyment of what being a Tory is all about.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248
    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Voters aren’t going to forget all of this in a hurry.

    Tory most seats at the next GE is surely a screaming lay @1.9

    Two years to the next election will involve a lot of water going under bridges. But yes, unless almost all the current Current cabinet are firmly away from the public mind by the next election then it’s surely going to be a hammering.
    Most Seats Con now 1.83
    An even more screaming lay.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,047
    Heathener said:

    Personally I don't think failing to form a Government will deter Boris in the least.

    That's not the kind of thing which will bother him.

    Only if he has gone howling-at-the-moon mad.

    Anybody sane can see his authority has gone. His greatest currency is patronage. But if nobody wants to take the jobs he is offering....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,828
    SandraMc said:

    The Daily Mail - at least the online version - has turned against him now and describes his efforts to stay on as "farcical".

    There is no ending to this story that doesn’t trash the reputation of everyone who stays in the bunker. Now it is simply a rats and ship scenario.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,894

    I don’t see how this helps Wallace’s or Truss’s leadership ambitions. If they’re seeking to inherit all the Johnson supporters… well, there aren’t very many of them left, so what’s the point?

    Also Zahawi has probably leapfrogged them as the BoJo loyalist candidate.

    If the succession race boils down to three groups-

    1 Still loyal to Johnson, even now
    2 In Johnson's cabinet, but bailing on him now
    3 Never supported Johnson

    Which two get through to the membership?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365

    IanB2 said:

    Even the loyalists are resigning this morning.

    Surely the reason Gove was sacked is simply that the clown couldn’t cope psychologically with the prospect that Gove would do for him again?

    Makes Gove a good runner for next leader IMO
    Not running, I think.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,828
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    Heathener said:

    As a realistic counter to Leon's 'everything is alright in the world of travel' here's a good piece on tourism in Bali.

    Bali went from over 6 million tourists in 2019 to 45 tourists in 2020. Yes, 45 tourists.

    The resident interviewed in the piece reckons it will take a decade to recover. My several friends in SE Asia think the same. The more optimistic suggest a decade to recover. Many say it will never return to how it was

    Yes, you can still travel. But covid has not gone away. Vaccine passes are required. Everywhere restrictions are far greater than they were. The tourist infrastructures have broken down. There is flight chaos in the UK and elsewhere. And a lot of the fun has been sucked out of it. Why have I not travelled much in the last 2 years? Quite simply, sitting on a long haul flight in a mask and going through a heap of aggro at overseas airports and hotels is the last thing I want to do when I travel. I go abroad to enjoy local cuisine and culture. To relax. To breathe the vibrancy of other worlds.

    In short, travel was fun. I have lived and travelled outside the UK most of my life, up to when covid hit. My last trip abroad was to Malaysia in February 2020. KL was already becoming a ghost town. Until I'm convinced that from leaving my door to returning it will be a fun experience I shall continue to avoid it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61992300

    My brief experience in 2021 was bad - too many anxiety inducing rules.
    My experience in 2022 was that it is fine; apart from the airport was depressing and everything was a bit more expensive.
    As long as the rules (vaccine passports, masks etc) go then it is fine.
    I would dispute 45 tourists in 2020.... the lockdown in Indonesia started in late March..... that implies that nil visitors from Jan, Feb and Mat.... SE asia is still a bit restricted but is open - you can fly in/out of nearly all countries as long as you are vaccinated..... job done.
    I'm sorry but this kind of thing lacks reality.

    I was in Malaysia in 2020, a country I know extremely well and have lived in. It was a pale, pale, shadow of what it was. Very little open, restrictions everywhere. Masks galore (for good reasons).

    And the airport business lounge, which has always been a joyous part of my experience was a godawful pain in the butt. No longer lovely buffets and relaxed atmosphere.

    A friend of mine went to Phuket recently and was welcomed at the airport by men in Hazmat suits. He was whisked away for testing and held by them in that state for a couple of hours. I kid you not. Good friend of mine in Bangkok says everything has shut down: all the tourist businesses have just gone.


    Yes you can travel. That wasn't the point of the piece, nor what I was saying. It's just no longer FUN.

    In my humble opinion.

    I never said “everything in travel is all right”. I said you can now travel quite easily, certainly in America, Europe and much of Asia. I know because I’ve just done it, for the last 3 months.

    Good morning @Heathener from my little patio by the river Rijeka, Montenegro


    Er are you sure it's called the Rijeka? That just means "river" in the local language. Next you'll be going up Gora mountain.
    Lol. You’re probably right. All I know is that I asked the name of the river of the nice couple that run these (amazing) apartments and they don’t speak a word of English but they smiled and nodded and said “da, Rijeka!”

    We’re they just saying “Yes, there’s a river”?

    They pegged you as a moron remarkably quickly?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,269
    A

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    As a realistic counter to Leon's 'everything is alright in the world of travel' here's a good piece on tourism in Bali.

    Bali went from over 6 million tourists in 2019 to 45 tourists in 2020. Yes, 45 tourists.

    The resident interviewed in the piece reckons it will take a decade to recover. My several friends in SE Asia think the same. The more optimistic suggest a decade to recover. Many say it will never return to how it was

    Yes, you can still travel. But covid has not gone away. Vaccine passes are required. Everywhere restrictions are far greater than they were. The tourist infrastructures have broken down. There is flight chaos in the UK and elsewhere. And a lot of the fun has been sucked out of it. Why have I not travelled much in the last 2 years? Quite simply, sitting on a long haul flight in a mask and going through a heap of aggro at overseas airports and hotels is the last thing I want to do when I travel. I go abroad to enjoy local cuisine and culture. To relax. To breathe the vibrancy of other worlds.

    In short, travel was fun. I have lived and travelled outside the UK most of my life, until covid hit. Until I'm convinced that from leaving my door to returning it will be a fun experience I shall continue to avoid it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61992300

    [...]

    Incidentally, the Scottish tourist industry recovered in no time. Far too bloody busy in fact. I blame Instagram, TikTok etc. The country is simply too photogenic.

    Yep I staycated in the Western Highlands last autumn. Took the wonderful overnight sleeper to Fort William. Had an absolutely glorious time.

    Aye it's a bonnie bonnie land. Love Scotland.
    Ah, the sleeper! God bless her.

    My profoundly Anglophile Swedish wife once took it from Fort William to Liverpool (!! don’t ask - Swedes are bonkers). She totally loved it. The journey itself was a sleepless, noisy, juddery trial of endurance, but OMG she just adored the cute little eccentric characters and customs. Like taking a journey back into the 1950s.

    I know that part of the world very well. Must’ve canvassed half the doors in Lochaber, and that ain’t easy 😉
    Haha excellent about the canvassing.

    The Caledonian Sleeper has had a total revamp and is now absolutely stunning. I have been trying not to tell people as I don't want the secret out. But it's now superb. Certainly not noisy.

    I had a wonderful deluxe cabin with fresh clean sheets and an ensuite shower room. On a train!

    Waking up to a view across the Trossachs and the Rannoch Moor took my breath away.

    Highly recommended.

    https://www.sleeper.scot/

    # Champagne socialist
    Oj! That’s Roger’s tag.
    Now I’m trying to imagine @Woger on a train.

    Toast still in the toaster.

    The BJ=Trump thing misses a large item. There is absolutely no sign of personal support for BJ outside of a few political chums. Not even one small oil waving a plastic flag on a stick….
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,888

    Heathener said:

    Personally I don't think failing to form a Government will deter Boris in the least.

    That's not the kind of thing which will bother him.

    Only if he has gone howling-at-the-moon mad.

    Anybody sane can see his authority has gone. His greatest currency is patronage. But if nobody wants to take the jobs he is offering....
    I did pose the question yesterday about what happens if a PM goes insane. The response was about sociopathy but that wasn't really my point.

    What DOES happen if a PM goes insane or has a serious mental breakdown that they themselves refuse to acknowledge whilst in office? There's no written constitution so what would happen?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,162
    It has been a honour, and a great responsibility, to serve as a minister, but we need leadership change, and I have resigned. I will continue to work for my constituents in Hexham from the backbenches.
    My letter to the PM.


    https://twitter.com/guyopperman/status/1544936960954884097
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,978
    IanB2 said:

    Here's my amateur opinion on why Johnson is hanging on.

    He knows the gig is up. It's mate-in-two-against-any-defence.

    However, rather than resign, the story going forward will be much different if he is instead VONCd by the 1922 changing the rules, either today or Monday.

    Firstly, the story will all be about him being VONCd. Why he's being VONCd (Pincher, Partygate or a hundred other scandals) will be secondary. And to a great mass of the public, that's the story he'll pitch. He was unfairly robbed by second-rate politicians who changed the rules just to get rid of him.

    It's the Trump playbook. You didn't lose, the game was rigged against you by cheats. I don't think Johnson has the same bizarre 'I never lost' core of his personality like Trump, but he's also seen how you can become the Ayatollah in exile by doing so.

    So he get's VONCd, and hangs around in the background as the potential saviour as the country goes to the dogs with inflation, strikes and gas bills.

    Thatcher fantasized about doing this herself but she was stymied because firstly she resigned, and secondly she made it known Major was her successor. Then Major went and won the next election anyway.

    Johnson has worked this out. He'll endorse nobody and keep his team of sycophants (Mogg, Dorries etc.) around to brief against the new PM. Undermine enough and hopefully you have a hung parliament with Labour in government and Johnson is the chosen one to reclaim the majority.

    Will it work? I doubt it. But I wouldn't bet against Trump winning in 2024 either.

    Brits aren’t Americans. And Conservative voters aren’t Republican voters.

    He is trashing his reputation, and most likely that of his party, beyond repair. It’s going to be a generation before they recover from this. With any luck, this will forever tarnish Brexit into the bargain.

    One could almost say that we are watching the ending of an era before our eyes, but don’t realise it yet.
    Centre-right voters will largely be relieved that he's gone. People say "X Party will never govern again because of this" and then they're back in the lead in the polls a year later.

    The manner of his departure makes it easier for the Conservatives to move on. He is entirely bereft of grace and dignity, unlike Thatcher, Cameron, or May, so nobody is going to be flying the flag for him after he goes. He might try hanging around like a bad fart in a lift, but 90% of Conservative MPs will want nothing to do with him.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,179
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    The best way to get Big Dog off the porch, now, is surely for everyone to refuse to serve. If he can’t form a government, he has to go. That’s it. Otherwise the £ will tank etc etc etc etc

    I reckon he will go today

    No he won't. He will have to be forced out, and his pathetic party still won't do it.
    Rees-Mogg for Gove's job?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,071
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener: I must admit it's funny hearing someone talk about the joys of travelling, and then talking about the horrors of the business lounge not being up to snuff.

    How the other 1% live ....

    Yep I'm a champagne socialist. :smiley:

    I love flying business class on long haul because sleep is important to me. So I flatbed and sleep for many hours and wake up in a decent enough state to get going. When I don't sleep much I get very light-headed and discombobulated.

    However, to be equally fair to myself I should point out that I have Silver status with OneWorld which has been extended to 2024. So I can buy an economy ticket and still use the business lounges. It's a great perk. When I returned from Scotland in the autumn I flew back for, iirc, £20 with Avios points but I was able to use the business lounge. Made it a rather pleasant experience.

    [...]

    But please continue to stay home. The rest of us are enjoying a somewhat quieter, sweeter world. Today I am walking down to the Rijeka River for a swim. Bliss
    No that's fine. But in that case, return the favour by keeping it to yourself. It all comes across as a bit too desperate. 'This is all wonderful. Honest'

    If it was that wonderful you wouldn't be parked up on here all the time posting photos.

    Just my view. Don't do your bullying expletive ridden default response please.
    Oh lordy. you cannot help yourself, can you? That last sentence was utterly unnecessary.

    Anyway, I personally like the little travelogues we get on here. They're not strictly necessary, but as long as there are not too many of them it adds to the site IMO.
    Unless or until you have been on the receiving end of bullying you would not understand.

    Sir Keir got the tone of that absolutely right yesterday. When you have been abused by a man, or in my case also raped, it teaches you to watch for signs of bullying demeanour. The default response to turn to CAPS LOCK, or use swear words, or opprobrium is bullying behaviour and I hesitated therefore to respond to Leon because I feared he would do it again. I don't like it and it tends to drive me away from here. It literally leaves me shaking with fear and ruins my day. If you have some decency you might just pause for a moment over your keys and listen to me as a woman who has been on the receiving end.

    Anyway, we have other things to discuss. I aired a travel piece that was thoughtful, I felt.

    x
    You don't know whether I've been on the receiving end of bullying, sexual abuse or anything else, and the answers might surprise you. And someone who has been bullied might reasonably take a rather different view to your own about what constitutes 'bullying'.

    This is a site for robust political debate. You yourself often insult people without reason: as you have with me first thing in the morning on several occasions. If things being said on here trigger issues with you, then I might sadly suggest taking a break from the site, rather than trying to use your own awful experiences to silence others.

    But I hope you stay.

    IMO Leon isn't 'bullying' you: any more than Malc 'bullies' people with his valued contributions to the site. ;)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,365
    Leon said:

    The best way to get Big Dog off the porch, now, is surely for everyone to refuse to serve. If he can’t form a government, he has to go. That’s it. Otherwise the £ will tank etc etc etc etc

    I reckon he will go today

    What, and throw away those 'opportunities for fresh disasters' ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,251
    Kay Burley: “And yet the PM is still in power.”

    Alastair Campbell: “Well, he’s in that building behind you. He’s not in power.”

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1544937485142196224
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,465
    Guy Opperman gone.
    Super loyal.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,978
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Personally I don't think failing to form a Government will deter Boris in the least.

    That's not the kind of thing which will bother him.

    Only if he has gone howling-at-the-moon mad.

    Anybody sane can see his authority has gone. His greatest currency is patronage. But if nobody wants to take the jobs he is offering....
    I did pose the question yesterday about what happens if a PM goes insane. The response was about sociopathy but that wasn't really my point.

    What DOES happen if a PM goes insane or has a serious mental breakdown that they themselves refuse to acknowledge whilst in office? There's no written constitution so what would happen?
    That's when the Queen should dismiss a PM from office. The Head of State has to act as umpire at that point.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,888
    edited July 7
    So a rash of more resignations and Priti Patel has called for him to go.

    Leon may be right after all on this: could today be the day?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62069494
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,248

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener: I must admit it's funny hearing someone talk about the joys of travelling, and then talking about the horrors of the business lounge not being up to snuff.

    How the other 1% live ....

    Yep I'm a champagne socialist. :smiley:

    I love flying business class on long haul because sleep is important to me. So I flatbed and sleep for many hours and wake up in a decent enough state to get going. When I don't sleep much I get very light-headed and discombobulated.

    However, to be equally fair to myself I should point out that I have Silver status with OneWorld which has been extended to 2024. So I can buy an economy ticket and still use the business lounges. It's a great perk. When I returned from Scotland in the autumn I flew back for, iirc, £20 with Avios points but I was able to use the business lounge. Made it a rather pleasant experience.

    [...]

    But please continue to stay home. The rest of us are enjoying a somewhat quieter, sweeter world. Today I am walking down to the Rijeka River for a swim. Bliss
    No that's fine. But in that case, return the favour by keeping it to yourself. It all comes across as a bit too desperate. 'This is all wonderful. Honest'

    If it was that wonderful you wouldn't be parked up on here all the time posting photos.

    Just my view. Don't do your bullying expletive ridden default response please.
    Oh lordy. you cannot help yourself, can you? That last sentence was utterly unnecessary.

    Anyway, I personally like the little travelogues we get on here. They're not strictly necessary, but as long as there are not too many of them it adds to the site IMO.
    In five years time, the politics and betting posts will be just a distant memory, as we all swoon over Sean’s morning snort, STD update, and pics from his dip in a Tasmanian duck pond.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157

    Mr. Pigeon, hence why the 1922 Committee have to change the rules immediately. They can't rely on reason, national interest, or dignity on the PM's part to persuade him to do the right thing.

    He doesn't have the intelligence or the decency to do it.

    Well obviously, but they are refusing to do it, aren't they? The country is being held hostage by the Conservative Party now. Not just by Boris Johnson. By the Conservative Party. The organisation, collectively, is guilty.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931

    This continuing fiasco is on the 22. We could have had a VONC at 6pm last night. The Cabinet members could have made it clear they would be voting NC. By 8pm, the process of replacement would have started under an interim PM, probably Theresa May.

    Needs a breakfast rethink, Brady.

    Is there some reason the 22 can’t meet today? Surely not. Do it. This is insufferable

    However I still have a feeling - perhaps deluded - that Boris will wake up (alone?) and look at another day of painful ridicule and absurdity, with the Queen tutting away, and he will think OK OK enough I’m done
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,828
    edited July 7

    Here's my amateur opinion on why Johnson is hanging on.

    He knows the gig is up. It's mate-in-two-against-any-defence.

    However, rather than resign, the story going forward will be much different if he is instead VONCd by the 1922 changing the rules, either today or Monday.

    Firstly, the story will all be about him being VONCd. Why he's being VONCd (Pincher, Partygate or a hundred other scandals) will be secondary. And to a great mass of the public, that's the story he'll pitch. He was unfairly robbed by second-rate politicians who changed the rules just to get rid of him.

    It's the Trump playbook. You didn't lose, the game was rigged against you by cheats. I don't think Johnson has the same bizarre 'I never lost' core of his personality like Trump, but he's also seen how you can become the Ayatollah in exile by doing so.

    So he get's VONCd, and hangs around in the background as the potential saviour as the country goes to the dogs with inflation, strikes and gas bills.

    Thatcher fantasized about doing this herself but she was stymied because firstly she resigned, and secondly she made it known Major was her successor. Then Major went and won the next election anyway.

    Johnson has worked this out. He'll endorse nobody and keep his team of sycophants (Mogg, Dorries etc.) around to brief against the new PM. Undermine enough and hopefully you have a hung parliament with Labour in government and Johnson is the chosen one to reclaim the majority.

    Will it work? I doubt it. But I wouldn't bet against Trump winning in 2024 either.

    Food for thought. Sounds plausible.

    Eton sounds like a frightful waste of money, turning out wee shits like this. The parents must hate their offspring.

    We are beyond any sort of logical or rational thought or plan from the PM.

    Johnson has had this dream his entire life of becoming Churchill reborn. This is the moment when his true legacy, and ultimate failure, suddenly became clear. It’s all emotional, he simply cannot cope.
This discussion has been closed.