The Tories this year:– David Warburton loses whip over alleged sexual harassment. – Imran Ahmad Khan convicted of child sexual assault.– Neil Parish, tractors and porn. – Tory MP arrested on suspicion of rape. – Deputy chief whip resigns after allegedly groping two men.
Is this actually backed up by the evidence on a longer timescale?
My other question is about the impact of the EU. During the period you're talking about we (a retail bank) used a lot (and I mean a lot) of offshore developers in India for app development and I acknowledge that that led to pay being suppressed to a degree, although our in-house developers tended to do quite well because their business knowledge made them a key interface with offshore.
Use of Indian developers was feck-all to do with our membership of the EU, of course.
Just before I retired a few years ago, serious questions were being asked about the risk of reliance on offshore developers during times of geopolitical upheaval (this was before Covid and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, of course).
I am not sure how those discussions played out or whether the reliance on offshore has been reduced at all.
In any event, I am glad your salary situation has improved, whatever the reason.
I doubt there is a particular link between political affiliation and being a wrong'un. However, I do suspect that the more recent history is related to the Conservatives having been in office a long time and having a leader who is uniquely poorly placed to insist on high standards of personal behaviour. There's a comparison with Corbyn here - his failure to take a tough line on antisemitism (and the suspicion that he had sympathy for aspects of it) no doubt led to an increase in cases within the Labour Party.
Poor Mr Johnson - it's just blow after blow for him lately.
Instead, it's that
a) there are more of them (that pesky 80-seat majority); and
b) they are "lead" by pack of incompetents who not only share & are quite unable to curb these vices, but are compelled to publicize them as some freakish form of performance art.
All parties have issues, but its quite standard for the Party of Government to have many more visible problems than the Opposition.
Patrick Grady was far more senior for his party than Pincher, but Pincher is the one that gets the headlines because he's a Tory and the Tories have Downing Street.
Also the Government obviously have many more MPs, so will have more opportunities for 'bad eggs' as a result.
So I imagine Labour MPs are self censoring their behaviour, hence getting into less trouble
Being a bunch of useless boring joyless drones has its advantages
I couldn't care less about blow jobs in the office, if the door and window is closed, what consenting adults do between them is none of anybody else's business.
In the past three decades the best President of the United States of America is infamous for getting a blowjob in the Oval Office. I'd still rather have him at his prime as POTUS now than Biden or even Obama, let alone Dubya or worse.
Who would you rather have as POTUS - Bill Clinton who had blowjobs from his mistress in the Oval Office, or Dubya Bush whom that has never been alleged against?
Also normally yes for a Foreign Sec from a potential blackmail perspective but given he spent the evenings plotting with billionaire oligarchs in govt offices, that may have been moot.
It's such a fine line, isn't it?
(Although his initials are actually AJ, but whatever, we have a prime minister who uses a stage name and somehow this kind of shit still surprises people).
I think there's a combination of issues here. As OGH says, there's the Westminster 'culture' which appears to be poor. Then there's the unusual nature of the job, which requires long periods away from home and family. There's the way MPs get to meet lots of people, often around drink. Also the fact that most people becoming MPs have to be fairly ambitious. And the fact the governing party gets more attention.
For instance, how about the SNP's Patrick Grady? Labour's Liam Byrne (albeit for bullying)?
I'd also like to comment again what an odious little creature Tom Watson was.
I can't remember Tories in the noughties complaining obsessively that Gordon is a stage name and that his real name is James.
How many people obsessed over Leonard Callaghan?
The issue here is that (a) the Tory Party invariably knows that MP x is a deviant and (b) refuses to do anything abut it. Or in the case of Pincher - who reportedly needed a party handler to ensure he didn't get smashed and start ball fondling - they actually promoted him to the whips office - twice.
This is the partisan bit. There are bad MPs in all parties But the Tories seem happy to both ignore and even promote such behaviour. That the PM liked to get sucked off in his office by his mistress probably explains the air of "so what" in the party.
President Putin on 🇬🇧PM Johnson’s remark that “if 🇷🇺President were a woman, he wouldn't have embarked on war”: M.Thatcher decided to launch military action against Falkland Islands. This decision was dictated by imperial ambitions, strife to uphold imperial status, & nothing else
I'd rather have my politicians made out of the normal crooked timber of humanity than be Woke Robots, cancelling everyone for having a libido
From Churchill to Cromwell, JFK to FDR, Lloyd George to d'Annunzio, Martin Luther King to Paddy Ashdown, Alexander the Great to Jo Swinson, great leaders have had terrible human flaws. It's the price we pay
I am pointing out that if that is how the PM behaves he is hardly in a good position to demand or expect higher standards for his subordinates.
Do I care personally? No - in the sense that the PM is a complete stranger so his personal sexual morals do not affect me.
Do I care that the Foreign Secretary thought it appropriate to have sex in his office with his mistress during work hours? Yes - it is completely unprofessional. Were there any evidence of him being good at his job there would be something weighty to put in the balance. But there wasn't, was there?
And that complete disregard for rules, standards, for a sense of professionalism, of decorum or dignity was not a one off: it has shown itself time and time again, of which Partygate is the latest example.
People having affairs happens. Marriages fail. But it is possible to be discreet - and have some respect for the dignity of the office you hold. It is not necessary for Tory party MPs to behave as if they were in a competition to see who most resembles a rutting chimp.
Leadership is, in part, about setting a good example. That is why Partygate has been so damaging. There is a problem with sexual misconduct among MPs. If this is to be dealt with then we need leaders who do not turn a blind eye to it by appointing to senior positions MPs with a history of such bad behaviour and despite warning about their conduct. Trying to enforce such standards is going to be a good deal more difficult if you yourself behave in an undignified way. The issue is not the PM's unfaithfulness but the fact that he could not see the utter wrongness of having sex with his mistress in the office rather than waiting until they were at home or in a hotel.
As you say, it happens in all parties. That the Lib Dems can squeeze into a taxi probably makes it less likely for them.
I think it's a tricky one, and slightly difficult for the Tories to lose, though on recent form they will try their hardest to come second; but if they were to win possibly both Lab and LD prefer the other to be the gallant runner up.
SNP (out of 48): Hanvey, Ferrier, Grady
Plaid (out of 4): Edwards
Labour (out of 202): Webbe, Coyle
Tory (out of 365): Roberts, Khan, Warburton, Parish… and we wait to see on Pincher
Proportionately speaking, Plaid are the worst, followed by SNP, then Conservative, then Labour, with LibDem, Green, DUP, Sinn Fein, SDLP and Alliance all clean. Small sample size effects clearly an issue.
What Pincher, Grady, Hill etc have been alleged to be involved in is non-consensual sexual behaviour.
The line between consensual and non-consensual behaviour should never be blurred.
Just read an interesting thought on Twitter, don't know how realistic a prospect it would be.
The tweeter's saying that if Starmer were to get the FPN and had to resign - and they suppose the Tories are probably putting the pressure on behind the scenes for one to be issued - then the govt will go for an election whilst Labour are leaderless.
Machiavellian but I can imagine it happening.
But which of Chris Pincher, David Warburton, and Neil Parish would you classify as "great leaders"? They are all rather inadequate (indeed extremely boring) politicians who are either unable or unwilling to exercise sensible levels of self-control around young men, young women, and tractors respectively.
Until it leaves him open to corruption. And in this case he has form. The Arcuri scandal is a sordid mess, and we now know that he tried to procure for the latest mistress a well paid job.
Corruption seems to be at the heart of his party - and the moral corruption which by itself wouldn't be a problem has become so by embedding itself into government.
Midway (South Derbyshire) council by-election result:
LAB: 52.6% (+14.8)
CON: 47.4% (+9.1)
No UKIP (-23.9) as prev.
Votes cast: 1,140
Labour GAIN from Conservative.
The PM's problem is that he's not a great leader with flaws. Nor even a mixed bag. He's a flawed leader who occasionally gets things right.
He's the King John of the modern era, with a laundry list of personal and political failures and a tiny number of redeeming features (to be fair, these do include a couple of big items such as the Ukraine response and COVID vaccinations). Nevertheless, he's unworthy of high office and always was.
Why is it called a blow job when you suck?
Possibly, probably, because the term is a shortening of a phrase used by Victorian prostitutes, when fellatio performed on the client was called "a down below job"
"'Ere, Lottie, that gent from Newent is asking for a down below job, ow much shall I charge im"
"Just sixpence, luv, he's a Scot Nat, they're tiny"
And so on
If its behind closed doors, then I don't think it is. What consenting adults do behind closed doors is up to them.
It ain't Armenia. Armenia is hideous but brilliant
May and Trudeau shafted themselves. And any Labour unknown may well be a plus against Johnson's known knowns.
Firstly, it would be seen to put the Queen in a deeply invidious position as it would be a government with a sizeable majority holding a very early election purely for opportunistic reasons. I think she'd have no choice but to allow it, but it'd be a terrible look.
Secondly, it would very easily be portrayed as wholly opportunistic, feeding into existing views about Johnson in a negative way.
Thirdly, Labour would probably very quickly coalesce around a replacement, either in PLP or via NEC rule changes or both, and that individual would be far more likely to get a short term boost in the opinion polls than a knock, and it would be at exactly the right time.
Overall, it's just daft speculation - it's not just that it might backfire, it's that it would almost certainly backfire, badly. And the PM, for all his flaws, isn't daft in terms of political tactics and would know that perfectly well.
And it's public jobs and funds for sexual favours. Again. As corrupt as it gets.
If you're doing it in the open, then that would be misconduct. If you're doing it behind closed doors then I don't see any difference between that and playing Candy Crush at work, or writing on obscure political blogs while at work.
Sexual assault is misconduct because it is non-consensual, an assault and a crime, no matter where it happens.
Sex in the office is misconduct because that is not how a professional behaves at work (and the fact that it is consensual is irrelevant).
Does a professional write on obscure political blogs at work?
What a professional does at work is surely between them and their employer. If someone has some downtime and the door is closed, what difference does that make?
"If there was a strong opposition, Pincher wouldn't have ever been deputy chief whip," he says.
If a colleague catches you having sex in your office, you get the sack for Gross Misconduct.
No excuses. No "consenting adults" crap. You cannot do that at work. That you are excusing him again is laughable.
I have had sex with girls at their place of work, quite a few times. A doctor in a hospital, a nurse at St Barts, a student actress backstage, a TV presenter in the dressing room, I once got my girlfriend to do her A Level revision topless (true story). Does that count?
OK, OK, I'll go to the dry cleaners, pfff
I'm not defending Boris, I think he should resign, but I couldn't care less what consenting adults do behind closed doors, and I'm not a puritan.
Evidence of sinsiter plan beinng enacted by super intelligent AI unwittingly unleashed on the world or self-driving cars being a bit crap? You decide.
The Queen would have to allow it, but yes I don't think she'd like it one bit.
It probably is just daft speculation and nothing at all will come of it, but a part of me thinks Johnson is bonkers enough, shameless enough, to go for it, should the opportunity arise.
Yes, he was funny, and blessedly lacking in the collective pulsing forehead vein that seems to infect much of the PB right nowadays.
And quite a few employers do have rules about social media use and wasting time playing games.
But you know all of this and are being stupidly provocative because you don't want to admit that the current PM degrades his office and is degrading the party he leads.
I know a case from a business I used to be involved with (before my time there) where a couple had been caught mid-coitus in the car park. The ex-boss had tried to sack her, but not him, but had backed down and sacked neither after she threatened to sue if he did that. I thought then that doing it in the car park was much worse, that's a public space.
He didn't get a majority, but got a completely new four year term with more MP's than he began with.
Hardly shafting himself.
' I couldn't care less what consenting adults do behind closed doors, and I'm not a puritan.'
Few on here would disagree, Bart, but context is everything and it just seems another example of sleazy behaviour by a sleazy government.
It's well past its sell by date, as I think you agree, but we may have to wait for the clock to run down to the end of its term.
What's the overlap between scandal, sexual misconduct, harassment, and bullying?
This is the list of published verdicts where charges were upheld from The Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) since the start of 2021. Sorry I don't know how to do a monospaced font on PB:
We can't rely on an allegations alone as requiring action, since some are not upheld (at least 2 excluded from this list due to 'not upheld' who have been gone for in the media), and others stay in their frontbench positions, or backbench MP roles.
Date published Reporter Respondent Party Offence
19/04/21 F Mr Jared O Mara Labour Sexual Misconduct
20/05/21 F Mr Mike Hill Labour Sexual Misconduct
25/05/21 M Mr Rob Roberts Conservative Sexual Misconduct
14/06/21 F Mr Daniel Kawczinski Conservative Bullying & Harassment
23/09/21 M Mr Keith Vaz Labour Bullying & Harassment
08/03/22 MMF Mr John Bercow Speaker Bullying & Harassment
28/04/22 M Mr Liam Byrne Labour Bullying & Harassment
14/06/22 M Mr Patrick Grady SNP Sexual Misconduct
Plus at least Fiona Onasanya, and Natalie McGarry who copped two years in prison this week.
I've never done it myself, because I too think its unprofessional and gross, but I don't think its gross misconduct (unless there are aggravating factors) and I certainly don't think its sexual misconduct.
Grey's Anatomy is right (as @BartholomewRoberts suggests). Medics are at it like rabbits. It is surely the proximity to death and disease, thanatos firing up eros
Lab 41% (+2 from May)
Con 30% (-3)
Lib Dems 15% (+3)
Green 6% (+1)
Other 8% (-3)
But the real story is on party image. THREAD
1/ Cons at all time low on being seen as 'fit to govern'. Labour lead by default. UK politics in a nutshell? https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1542812840360280064/photo/1
But not actually STARVING
Boris should resign. Not because he had sex, but because he's not good enough anymore. 👎
BR may disagree with this simple business reality but that's as maybe. Had his FCO office been a big city company office, and he gets caught inflagrante there, he'd get the sack. Why should government be any different?
Minerva - Does your maths homework for you
DeepNash, an autonomous agent capable of learning to play the imperfect information game Stratego from scratch, up to a human expert level
Used to love a game of stratego when I was a kid.