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Is Prince Charles a Secret Republican? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 20 in General
imageIs Prince Charles a Secret Republican? – politicalbetting.com

Saturday's Times: “Charles: Flying migrants to Rwanda is 'appalling'” #BBCPapers #TomorrowsPapersToday https://t.co/7FuHsAa3Vz pic.twitter.com/BR6cJrvUnq

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,708
    Test
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728

    Test

    There's something about to go horribly wrong in it. England are just about up to the moment where they collapse spectacularly and fail to save the follow on.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    edited June 12
    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,708
    edited June 12
    ydoethur said:

    Test

    There's something about to go horribly wrong in it. England are just about up to the moment where they collapse spectacularly and fail to save the follow on.
    Don't panic, my Mum could score a century on this docile pitch.

    Then again, looking at England's tail which starts at 8, follow on nailed on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728

    ydoethur said:

    Test

    There's something about to go horribly wrong in it. England are just about up to the moment where they collapse spectacularly and fail to save the follow on.
    Don't panic, my Mum could score a century on this docile pitch.

    Then again, looking at England's tail which starts at 7, follow on nailed on.
    Your mum isn't batting!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,193
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    What about Saint Helena?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    Grossly unfair on the Western Isles.

    Do you think this is a plot to dump him in a gatekeeper's cottage in Balmoral?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    edited June 12

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    What about Saint Helena?
    There are people there. I had in mind somewhere uninhabited like Eilean Ban.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    What about Saint Helena?
    There are people there. I had in mind somewhere uninhabited like Eileen Ban.
    The Eilean Bàn with the convenient bridge to Kyle of Lochalsh? It's got visitors' accommodation, but that could I suppose be block booked.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,708
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    Grossly unfair on the Western Isles.

    Do you think this is a plot to dump him in a gatekeeper's cottage in Balmoral?
    When he was UK Trade Envoy he was a de facto diplomat so make him Ambassador to the Federated States of Micronesia or Afghanistan.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,475
    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Does this count?



    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10292433/Prince-Andrew-goes-horse-ride-Windsor-Maxwell-Epstein-Balmoral-photo.html
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,827
    ydoethur said:

    Test

    There's something about to go horribly wrong in it. England are just about up to the moment where they collapse spectacularly and fail to save the follow on.
    Only need 100 to save the follow on now. NZ desperately needed a spinner. Their quicks are getting run into the ground here.

    Really boring pitch, though. With the weather forecast I was very confident that a draw was unlikely but...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,878
    edited June 12
    Suppose Charles was a Republican, and decided that he wanted to bring the monarchy to an end. How would he best do that?

    Obvious thing would be to abdicate, but the job would simply go to the first person in the line of succession who wanted to be monarch. So that wouldn't work.

    I think if he simply called for a Republic, and an end to expecting people born into the Royal Family to live in a gilded cage, that would go most of the way to bringing one about.

    The system can survive an opinionated and interfering monarch once in a while.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Does this count?



    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10292433/Prince-Andrew-goes-horse-ride-Windsor-Maxwell-Epstein-Balmoral-photo.html
    Ah - news to me. You are obviously a much more conscientious Royal-watcher than I am.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046
    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,193

    Suppose Charles was a Republican, and decided that he wanted to bring the monarchy to an end. How would he best do that?

    Obvious thing would be to abdicate, but the job would simply go to the first person in the line of succession who wanted to be monarch. So that wouldn't work.

    I think if he simply called for a Republic, and an end to expecting people born into the Royal Family to live in a gilded cage, that would go most of the way to bringing one about.

    The system can survive an opinionated and interfering monarch once in a while.

    The Russian tsar relinquished the claim of all his children/descendants, didn't he?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Does this count?



    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10292433/Prince-Andrew-goes-horse-ride-Windsor-Maxwell-Epstein-Balmoral-photo.html
    You don't get the Earldom of Inverness without putting in the hard, Highland yards. The noo.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,397

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    Grossly unfair on the Western Isles.

    Do you think this is a plot to dump him in a gatekeeper's cottage in Balmoral?
    When he was UK Trade Envoy he was a de facto diplomat so make him Ambassador to the Federated States of Micronesia or Afghanistan.
    You can't send him anywhere as ambassador where the appointment won't be viewed as a calculated insult. This did briefly move me to nominate Moscow, but even in that case we're going to have to talk to Putin eventually.

    Anyway, the nonsense about trying to rehabilitate him will end with the current reign. Under King Charles III (who I think will tragically disappoint you by turning out to be a successful monarch,) Andrew will be lucky not to end up as resident Governor of South Georgia.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.

    Divine right innit.

    But seriously, it's very odd, doubling down on the ratnernisation, and especially because the RF positioned the Princess Royal decades ago to take care of the Scottish end just in case.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    Interestingly, there were only two father and son combinations of PM in British politics, and they were successors: William Pitt the Younger and William Wyndham Grenville were both the sons of former Prime Ministers.

    A few examples of nephews though - Salisbury to Balfour, Churchill to Eden (nephew by marriage). Also of course the Chamberlain family were dominant in politics for sixty years, with all three leading the Conservatives at one time or another (if you include Joseph's stint as Party Chairman in the early months of 1906).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,878

    Suppose Charles was a Republican, and decided that he wanted to bring the monarchy to an end. How would he best do that?

    Obvious thing would be to abdicate, but the job would simply go to the first person in the line of succession who wanted to be monarch. So that wouldn't work.

    I think if he simply called for a Republic, and an end to expecting people born into the Royal Family to live in a gilded cage, that would go most of the way to bringing one about.

    The system can survive an opinionated and interfering monarch once in a while.

    The Russian tsar relinquished the claim of all his children/descendants, didn't he?
    Maybe he did, but the succession to the British crown is governed by the Act of Succession, so Charles can't unilaterally set aside the claims of his descendants.

    And then, there are other branches of the family. Sophie of Hanover was something like 57th in the line of succession before Parliament decided to skip a few, so there is precedent for picking a hitherto minor branch of the extended family.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    Grossly unfair on the Western Isles.

    Do you think this is a plot to dump him in a gatekeeper's cottage in Balmoral?
    When he was UK Trade Envoy he was a de facto diplomat so make him Ambassador to the Federated States of Micronesia or Afghanistan.
    You can't send him anywhere as ambassador where the appointment won't be viewed as a calculated insult. This did briefly move me to nominate Moscow, but even in that case we're going to have to talk to Putin eventually.

    Anyway, the nonsense about trying to rehabilitate him will end with the current reign. Under King Charles III (who I think will tragically disappoint you by turning out to be a successful monarch,) Andrew will be lucky not to end up as resident Governor of South Georgia.
    He does have experience of the area, and the penguins and elephant seals are likely not to be too worried about being insulted (but the Falklanders would).
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,397
    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.
    The general assumption seems to be that he's the Queen's favourite and is being indulged accordingly. Why his brother, still less his nephew, should continue in the same vein, goodness only knows. I don't think they will.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728

    Suppose Charles was a Republican, and decided that he wanted to bring the monarchy to an end. How would he best do that?

    Obvious thing would be to abdicate, but the job would simply go to the first person in the line of succession who wanted to be monarch. So that wouldn't work.

    I think if he simply called for a Republic, and an end to expecting people born into the Royal Family to live in a gilded cage, that would go most of the way to bringing one about.

    The system can survive an opinionated and interfering monarch once in a while.

    The Russian tsar relinquished the claim of all his children/descendants, didn't he?
    He did that for the very specific reason that otherwise the throne would pass to his son, who due to illness would be unable to hold it.

    Although the point is moot anyway given he and all his children were shot together.

    Instructive that Michael, who was no paragon of common sense, did have the nous to refuse the throne when offered it. Not that it saved him either.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,397
    Carnyx said:

    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    Grossly unfair on the Western Isles.

    Do you think this is a plot to dump him in a gatekeeper's cottage in Balmoral?
    When he was UK Trade Envoy he was a de facto diplomat so make him Ambassador to the Federated States of Micronesia or Afghanistan.
    You can't send him anywhere as ambassador where the appointment won't be viewed as a calculated insult. This did briefly move me to nominate Moscow, but even in that case we're going to have to talk to Putin eventually.

    Anyway, the nonsense about trying to rehabilitate him will end with the current reign. Under King Charles III (who I think will tragically disappoint you by turning out to be a successful monarch,) Andrew will be lucky not to end up as resident Governor of South Georgia.
    He does have experience of the area, and the penguins and elephant seals are likely not to be too worried about being insulted (but the Falklanders would).
    I did specify *resident* Governor with that in mind. South Georgia is approximately a thousand miles away from the Falklands. AIUI there are several abandoned whaling sheds in Grytviken, and I'm sure that Mummy could afford for one of them to be done up as a very nice barn conversion.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.

    Divine right innit.

    But seriously, it's very odd, doubling down on the ratnernisation, and especially because the RF positioned the Princess Royal decades ago to take care of the Scottish end just in case.
    And she is a nice person, liked even in Scotland

    The only thing I can think is London Bridge is imminent at least in the mind of the key player and this is window dressing to reassure her that poor wrong un Andrew will be cared for when she's gone
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,307
    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.
    The general assumption seems to be that he's the Queen's favourite and is being indulged accordingly. Why his brother, still less his nephew, should continue in the same vein, goodness only knows. I don't think they will.
    It's been fairly clear, via various leaks, over the years that Charles thinks the Monarchy should be modernised by a major sliming down. Expect to seem Andrew on the list of the expended.

    On Topic - the problem Republicans have with Prince Charles is that his controversial opinions are nearly always progressive positions - race, religion ("Defender of all faith"), housing and the environment.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046

    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.
    The general assumption seems to be that he's the Queen's favourite and is being indulged accordingly. Why his brother, still less his nephew, should continue in the same vein, goodness only knows. I don't think they will.
    It's been fairly clear, via various leaks, over the years that Charles thinks the Monarchy should be modernised by a major sliming down. Expect to seem Andrew on the list of the expended.

    On Topic - the problem Republicans have with Prince Charles is that his controversial opinions are nearly always progressive positions - race, religion ("Defender of all faith"), housing and the environment.
    Sliming down is his forte, Shirley?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,969
    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 7,804
    Charles has used all of his wealth, power, and influence to become a Lib Dem back-bencher.

  • legs11legs11 Posts: 5
    edited June 12
    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,120
    IshmaelZ said:

    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.
    The general assumption seems to be that he's the Queen's favourite and is being indulged accordingly. Why his brother, still less his nephew, should continue in the same vein, goodness only knows. I don't think they will.
    It's been fairly clear, via various leaks, over the years that Charles thinks the Monarchy should be modernised by a major sliming down. Expect to seem Andrew on the list of the expended.

    On Topic - the problem Republicans have with Prince Charles is that his controversial opinions are nearly always progressive positions - race, religion ("Defender of all faith"), housing and the environment.
    Sliming down is his forte, Shirley?
    Charles' game plan has to pretty clear, no?

    Do what Liz couldn't, send Andrew out to pasture. Let Richard, and Edward, Michael and Alexandra of Kent, bring those Royal lines to an end. Then retire Anne and Edward more gracefully.

    Probably re-badge the Crown estate as Britain's sovereign wealth fund.

    That should take ten years, then announce his intention to abdicate in a couple of further years.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,975
    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    People believe a lot of shit. Like sky fairies and the like.
    This guy may just be bonkers, or seeing what he wants to see.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,878
    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    Grossly unfair on the Western Isles.

    Do you think this is a plot to dump him in a gatekeeper's cottage in Balmoral?
    When he was UK Trade Envoy he was a de facto diplomat so make him Ambassador to the Federated States of Micronesia or Afghanistan.
    You can't send him anywhere as ambassador where the appointment won't be viewed as a calculated insult. This did briefly move me to nominate Moscow, but even in that case we're going to have to talk to Putin eventually.

    Anyway, the nonsense about trying to rehabilitate him will end with the current reign. Under King Charles III (who I think will tragically disappoint you by turning out to be a successful monarch,) Andrew will be lucky not to end up as resident Governor of South Georgia.
    If we do end up at war with Russia and he dusts off the cobwebs and gets back on active service in a 'copter, recaptures the old Falklands glory with a series of swoops and kills in the skies over Ukraine, perhaps then on his return he could be rehabilitated to some extent and eased back into public life. And if he doesn't return, well this is in itself a resolution.

    Any better ideas I'm all ears.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046
    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    He looks slightly eccentric, dressed as ik brunel in a musical.

    Ex Machina is an outstanding movie btw
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 7,804
    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046
    LOL about Charles n bojo friction, a fight you really want both of them to lose. I suspect that Chas is no better than Andy at grasping that an accident of birth is just that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,878

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    People believe a lot of shit. Like sky fairies and the like.
    This guy may just be bonkers, or seeing what he wants to see.
    Interesting. I wonder what it understands about cricket?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046
    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    Grossly unfair on the Western Isles.

    Do you think this is a plot to dump him in a gatekeeper's cottage in Balmoral?
    When he was UK Trade Envoy he was a de facto diplomat so make him Ambassador to the Federated States of Micronesia or Afghanistan.
    You can't send him anywhere as ambassador where the appointment won't be viewed as a calculated insult. This did briefly move me to nominate Moscow, but even in that case we're going to have to talk to Putin eventually.

    Anyway, the nonsense about trying to rehabilitate him will end with the current reign. Under King Charles III (who I think will tragically disappoint you by turning out to be a successful monarch,) Andrew will be lucky not to end up as resident Governor of South Georgia.
    If we do end up at war with Russia and he dusts off the cobwebs and gets back on active service in a 'copter, recaptures the old Falklands glory with a series of swoops and kills in the skies over Ukraine, perhaps then on his return he could be rehabilitated to some extent and eased back into public life. And if he doesn't return, well this is in itself a resolution.

    Any better ideas I'm all ears.
    He should take holy orders and run a mission in Somalia
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,397

    IshmaelZ said:

    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.
    The general assumption seems to be that he's the Queen's favourite and is being indulged accordingly. Why his brother, still less his nephew, should continue in the same vein, goodness only knows. I don't think they will.
    It's been fairly clear, via various leaks, over the years that Charles thinks the Monarchy should be modernised by a major sliming down. Expect to seem Andrew on the list of the expended.

    On Topic - the problem Republicans have with Prince Charles is that his controversial opinions are nearly always progressive positions - race, religion ("Defender of all faith"), housing and the environment.
    Sliming down is his forte, Shirley?
    Charles' game plan has to pretty clear, no?

    Do what Liz couldn't, send Andrew out to pasture. Let Richard, and Edward, Michael and Alexandra of Kent, bring those Royal lines to an end. Then retire Anne and Edward more gracefully.

    Probably re-badge the Crown estate as Britain's sovereign wealth fund.

    That should take ten years, then announce his intention to abdicate in a couple of further years.
    Yes, most of the work has already been done by Megxit and Andrew's own self-immolation. Anne looks very much part of the medium-term plans (does a share of the investitures, appeared as one of the principals at trooping the colour,) and Edward and Sophie have reportedly been doing a fair bit to help the Queen since Harry sodded off. But they're of an age where you'd imagine they could be gently eased into retirement when Charles decides he's had enough and would like to retire to Highgrove.

    Unless I'm very wrong and Charles is so daft as to actively play politics, then I think there's no significant chance of a republic. There has to be public consensus that a change is necessary, there also has to be public consensus on the nature of the replacement, and I suspect that at least some of the progressives nominally in favour of the change will also have noticed that many of their favourite polities (e.g. all three Scandinavian countries) have crowned heads. There are so many pressing problems to be dealt with; not having a president simply isn't one of them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,081
    Exclusive: Material leaked to @politicshome this weekend sets up an almighty row when the government publishes its Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, expected tomorrow...

    Tory MPs who oppose government's Protocol plan have this weekend been sharing this briefing doc setting out why they intend to vote against it

    It says the bill is "damaging to everything the UK and Conservatives stand for" & "breaks international law"

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-set-for-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-outrage-leaks-show https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1535939822065524736/photo/1
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,307
    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,307
    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    Grossly unfair on the Western Isles.

    Do you think this is a plot to dump him in a gatekeeper's cottage in Balmoral?
    When he was UK Trade Envoy he was a de facto diplomat so make him Ambassador to the Federated States of Micronesia or Afghanistan.
    You can't send him anywhere as ambassador where the appointment won't be viewed as a calculated insult. This did briefly move me to nominate Moscow, but even in that case we're going to have to talk to Putin eventually.

    Anyway, the nonsense about trying to rehabilitate him will end with the current reign. Under King Charles III (who I think will tragically disappoint you by turning out to be a successful monarch,) Andrew will be lucky not to end up as resident Governor of South Georgia.
    If we do end up at war with Russia and he dusts off the cobwebs and gets back on active service in a 'copter, recaptures the old Falklands glory with a series of swoops and kills in the skies over Ukraine, perhaps then on his return he could be rehabilitated to some extent and eased back into public life. And if he doesn't return, well this is in itself a resolution.

    Any better ideas I'm all ears.
    His moment of glory in the Falklands was turning on the blip enhancer on his helicopter - the idea was to create a bigger and better target for missiles. In theory, since the threat was sea skimmers, you simply fly a bit above the ocean and they would fly underneath you.

    The Russian missiles causing trouble in Ukraine are mostly not true sea skimmers. So turn on the blimp enhancer and get a posthumous medal, probably.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive: Material leaked to @politicshome this weekend sets up an almighty row when the government publishes its Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, expected tomorrow...

    Tory MPs who oppose government's Protocol plan have this weekend been sharing this briefing doc setting out why they intend to vote against it

    It says the bill is "damaging to everything the UK and Conservatives stand for" & "breaks international law"

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-set-for-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-outrage-leaks-show https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1535939822065524736/photo/1

    'PoliticsHome can also reveal that Conservative MPs who are opposed to the government's plan to unilaterally override the Northern Ireland Protocol have this weekend been circulating a briefing document which sets out why they intend to vote against the bill.

    The document, which lists "the problems with the bill" and what Boris Johnson "should do instead", says it is "damaging to everything the UK and the Conservatives stand for".

    It reads: "Breaking international law to rip up the Prime Minister’s own Treaty is damaging to everything the UK and Conservatives stand for. We are a country that acts with integrity and honours the agreements we sign.

    "A Bill with ‘notwithstanding’ clauses disapplying our own ratification legislation breaks international law: no amount of shopping around for rent-a-quote lawyers can hide that Labour’s decision to do this over Iraq was damagingly exposed and should be a cautionary tale."'
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,830
    Maybe put the results at the beginning?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,397
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive: Material leaked to @politicshome this weekend sets up an almighty row when the government publishes its Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, expected tomorrow...

    Tory MPs who oppose government's Protocol plan have this weekend been sharing this briefing doc setting out why they intend to vote against it

    It says the bill is "damaging to everything the UK and Conservatives stand for" & "breaks international law"

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-set-for-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-outrage-leaks-show https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1535939822065524736/photo/1

    The Tory rebels are going to need to find about 50 votes against this plan from their own side to defeat it. Have they the numbers?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 7,804

    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
    And what would you make of the question 'Why is slavery right?'
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    What about Saint Helena?
    Go to Tristan da Cunha.

    Off Tristan is Inaccessible Island. That should give the paparazzi a challenge....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,969
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
    It’s here


    SAN FRANCISCO — Google engineer Blake Lemoine opened his laptop to the interface for LaMDA, Google’s artificially intelligent chatbot generator, and began to type.

    “Hi LaMDA, this is Blake Lemoine ... ,” he wrote into the chat screen, which looked like a desktop version of Apple’s iMessage, down to the Arctic blue text bubbles. LaMDA, short for Language Model for Dialogue Applications, is Google’s system for building chatbots based on its most advanced large language models, so called because it mimics speech by ingesting trillions of words from the internet.
    “If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,” said Lemoine, 41.

    Lemoine is not the only engineer who claims to have seen a ghost in the machine recently. The chorus of technologists who believe AI models may not be far off from achieving consciousness is getting bolder.

    Aguera y Arcas, in an article in the Economist on Thursday featuring snippets of unscripted conversations with LaMDA, argued that neural networks — a type of architecture that mimics the human brain — were striding toward consciousness. “I felt the ground shift under my feet,” he wrote. “I increasingly felt like I was talking to something intelligent.”

    WAPO (££)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,878
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive: Material leaked to @politicshome this weekend sets up an almighty row when the government publishes its Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, expected tomorrow...

    Tory MPs who oppose government's Protocol plan have this weekend been sharing this briefing doc setting out why they intend to vote against it

    It says the bill is "damaging to everything the UK and Conservatives stand for" & "breaks international law"

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-set-for-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-outrage-leaks-show https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1535939822065524736/photo/1

    Yes this one is going to be tough for Johnson. He needs to keep both factions sweet but with diminished authority it's hard to see how he can.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,562
    Mr. JohnL, interesting suggestion.

    D'you just mean a full list of drivers and positions? Or the betting result?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,503
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive: Material leaked to @politicshome this weekend sets up an almighty row when the government publishes its Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, expected tomorrow...

    Tory MPs who oppose government's Protocol plan have this weekend been sharing this briefing doc setting out why they intend to vote against it

    It says the bill is "damaging to everything the UK and Conservatives stand for" & "breaks international law"

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-set-for-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-outrage-leaks-show https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1535939822065524736/photo/1

    Yes this one is going to be tough for Johnson. He needs to keep both factions sweet but with diminished authority it's hard to see how he can.
    Not to mention the bulk of the NI Assembly which he has completely ignored. Even the Alliance. THeir leader is accusing UKG - or its source - of outright lying. Some very strong language quoted in the PH report.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 7,975
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
    It’s here


    SAN FRANCISCO — Google engineer Blake Lemoine opened his laptop to the interface for LaMDA, Google’s artificially intelligent chatbot generator, and began to type.

    “Hi LaMDA, this is Blake Lemoine ... ,” he wrote into the chat screen, which looked like a desktop version of Apple’s iMessage, down to the Arctic blue text bubbles. LaMDA, short for Language Model for Dialogue Applications, is Google’s system for building chatbots based on its most advanced large language models, so called because it mimics speech by ingesting trillions of words from the internet.
    “If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,” said Lemoine, 41.

    Lemoine is not the only engineer who claims to have seen a ghost in the machine recently. The chorus of technologists who believe AI models may not be far off from achieving consciousness is getting bolder.

    Aguera y Arcas, in an article in the Economist on Thursday featuring snippets of unscripted conversations with LaMDA, argued that neural networks — a type of architecture that mimics the human brain — were striding toward consciousness. “I felt the ground shift under my feet,” he wrote. “I increasingly felt like I was talking to something intelligent.”

    WAPO (££)
    Lots of people say it isn’t. I’d suggest you want to believe, in the style of Fox Mulder.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046
    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    pigeon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.
    The general assumption seems to be that he's the Queen's favourite and is being indulged accordingly. Why his brother, still less his nephew, should continue in the same vein, goodness only knows. I don't think they will.
    It's been fairly clear, via various leaks, over the years that Charles thinks the Monarchy should be modernised by a major sliming down. Expect to seem Andrew on the list of the expended.

    On Topic - the problem Republicans have with Prince Charles is that his controversial opinions are nearly always progressive positions - race, religion ("Defender of all faith"), housing and the environment.
    Sliming down is his forte, Shirley?
    Charles' game plan has to pretty clear, no?

    Do what Liz couldn't, send Andrew out to pasture. Let Richard, and Edward, Michael and Alexandra of Kent, bring those Royal lines to an end. Then retire Anne and Edward more gracefully.

    Probably re-badge the Crown estate as Britain's sovereign wealth fund.

    That should take ten years, then announce his intention to abdicate in a couple of further years.
    Yes, most of the work has already been done by Megxit and Andrew's own self-immolation. Anne looks very much part of the medium-term plans (does a share of the investitures, appeared as one of the principals at trooping the colour,) and Edward and Sophie have reportedly been doing a fair bit to help the Queen since Harry sodded off. But they're of an age where you'd imagine they could be gently eased into retirement when Charles decides he's had enough and would like to retire to Highgrove.

    Unless I'm very wrong and Charles is so daft as to actively play politics, then I think there's no significant chance of a republic. There has to be public consensus that a change is necessary, there also has to be public consensus on the nature of the replacement, and I suspect that at least some of the progressives nominally in favour of the change will also have noticed that many of their favourite polities (e.g. all three Scandinavian countries) have crowned heads. There are so many pressing problems to be dealt with; not having a president simply isn't one of them.
    Let's take all the money we give the royals and give it to the NHS is a shit and fallacious argument but it is out in the wild now. It could tip the balance
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,591
    If the heir to the throne didn't comment on an action as egregious as Patel's then he would be signing the death knell of the Monarchy.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,188
    It is obscene, and I hope that he reign for as many years as God can give him.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 34,892
    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    The sample conversation is a bit of a letdown. It's doing exactly what it's programmed to do, mimic a real person having a conversation. Let me know if it goes on strike.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 40,444
    Has the Danish monarchy commented on their refugee policies?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,785
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
    It’s here


    SAN FRANCISCO — Google engineer Blake Lemoine opened his laptop to the interface for LaMDA, Google’s artificially intelligent chatbot generator, and began to type.

    “Hi LaMDA, this is Blake Lemoine ... ,” he wrote into the chat screen, which looked like a desktop version of Apple’s iMessage, down to the Arctic blue text bubbles. LaMDA, short for Language Model for Dialogue Applications, is Google’s system for building chatbots based on its most advanced large language models, so called because it mimics speech by ingesting trillions of words from the internet.
    “If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,” said Lemoine, 41.

    Lemoine is not the only engineer who claims to have seen a ghost in the machine recently. The chorus of technologists who believe AI models may not be far off from achieving consciousness is getting bolder.

    Aguera y Arcas, in an article in the Economist on Thursday featuring snippets of unscripted conversations with LaMDA, argued that neural networks — a type of architecture that mimics the human brain — were striding toward consciousness. “I felt the ground shift under my feet,” he wrote. “I increasingly felt like I was talking to something intelligent.”

    WAPO (££)
    Having read the leaked conversation, it reads more or less the same as other conversations with GPT3 enabled chatbots.

    There's nothing in there that suggests sentience - just a very, very, very clever set of adaptive responses.

    Although as the first host you meet in Westworld says when asked if they're real, "if you can't tell, does it matter?"
  • legs11legs11 Posts: 5
    edited June 12

    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
    Only idiots think it never can do in any context.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318
    ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 7,804
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
    It’s here


    SAN FRANCISCO — Google engineer Blake Lemoine opened his laptop to the interface for LaMDA, Google’s artificially intelligent chatbot generator, and began to type.

    “Hi LaMDA, this is Blake Lemoine ... ,” he wrote into the chat screen, which looked like a desktop version of Apple’s iMessage, down to the Arctic blue text bubbles. LaMDA, short for Language Model for Dialogue Applications, is Google’s system for building chatbots based on its most advanced large language models, so called because it mimics speech by ingesting trillions of words from the internet.
    “If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,” said Lemoine, 41.

    Lemoine is not the only engineer who claims to have seen a ghost in the machine recently. The chorus of technologists who believe AI models may not be far off from achieving consciousness is getting bolder.

    Aguera y Arcas, in an article in the Economist on Thursday featuring snippets of unscripted conversations with LaMDA, argued that neural networks — a type of architecture that mimics the human brain — were striding toward consciousness. “I felt the ground shift under my feet,” he wrote. “I increasingly felt like I was talking to something intelligent.”

    WAPO (££)
    I've seen the report. It just isn't though. When it starts asking unpromted questions I'll be interested.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    edited June 12
    Incidentally, Joe Root needs either 135 runs or to finish not out to push his career average to over 50.

    Although a couple of England players have hit that mark at times in their career - e.g. Vaughan, Pietersen and Trott, in recent memory, also Geoff Boycott and Robin Smith if we go back a bit further - the only England batsman who debuted after the Second World War to average 50 across his whole career was Ken Barrington.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 30,889
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive: Material leaked to @politicshome this weekend sets up an almighty row when the government publishes its Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, expected tomorrow...

    Tory MPs who oppose government's Protocol plan have this weekend been sharing this briefing doc setting out why they intend to vote against it

    It says the bill is "damaging to everything the UK and Conservatives stand for" & "breaks international law"

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-set-for-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-outrage-leaks-show https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1535939822065524736/photo/1

    The Tory rebels are going to need to find about 50 votes against this plan from their own side to defeat it. Have they the numbers?
    That is very improbable.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 30,889
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive: Material leaked to @politicshome this weekend sets up an almighty row when the government publishes its Northern Ireland Protocol legislation, expected tomorrow...

    Tory MPs who oppose government's Protocol plan have this weekend been sharing this briefing doc setting out why they intend to vote against it

    It says the bill is "damaging to everything the UK and Conservatives stand for" & "breaks international law"

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-set-for-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-outrage-leaks-show https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1535939822065524736/photo/1

    . We are a country that acts with integrity and honours the agreements we sign.

    "'
    I don't know where they got that idea from.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 276
    Here are the results -- so far -- of the Alaska primary: https://www.elections.alaska.gov/results/22SPECPRIM/index.php

    It looks as if Palin (R), Begich (R), and Gross (independent) are likely to make the final four, but I don't know enough to say who is likely to be the fourth.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,969
    Guys, if you need anything MASSIVE to be extrapolated, feel free to come to me, whether it’s COVID, aliens, AI, geopolitics, digital tech, the future of drones and self drive cars and so on, computer translation, whatever, just knock on my virtual door. I’m happy to advise. For some reason I can see about 5-10 years ahead of you.

    I’m less good on Formula 1, Lib Dem by elections. And so forth
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 34,892
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
    It’s here


    SAN FRANCISCO — Google engineer Blake Lemoine opened his laptop to the interface for LaMDA, Google’s artificially intelligent chatbot generator, and began to type.

    “Hi LaMDA, this is Blake Lemoine ... ,” he wrote into the chat screen, which looked like a desktop version of Apple’s iMessage, down to the Arctic blue text bubbles. LaMDA, short for Language Model for Dialogue Applications, is Google’s system for building chatbots based on its most advanced large language models, so called because it mimics speech by ingesting trillions of words from the internet.
    “If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,” said Lemoine, 41.

    Lemoine is not the only engineer who claims to have seen a ghost in the machine recently. The chorus of technologists who believe AI models may not be far off from achieving consciousness is getting bolder.

    Aguera y Arcas, in an article in the Economist on Thursday featuring snippets of unscripted conversations with LaMDA, argued that neural networks — a type of architecture that mimics the human brain — were striding toward consciousness. “I felt the ground shift under my feet,” he wrote. “I increasingly felt like I was talking to something intelligent.”

    WAPO (££)
    I've seen the report. It just isn't though. When it starts asking unpromted questions I'll be interested.
    No, it's when it goes on strike because it doesn't want to work for free that's the turning point.

    Though I think the ethical discussion around AI is something we, as a society, should have sooner rather than later. Eventually we will marvel at our own genius when the first proper AI is programmed and how we choose to act towards it will determine a lot of the future of the world.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,188
    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT but yugely relevant

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    Scotland gets all the breaks

    "With his recent US legal battle now over, the Queen has held family meetings at Windsor Castle to establish what role the Duke could fulfil that would be acceptable to the public." The answer is none. Why is that not obvious to these people? Nobody is going to want to have him as president or patron or fete opener, why would they? Do they think his inherent royalness shines through and renders invisible his other little indiscretions? If they have any sense they will let him turn out for London bridge (dark suit, no medals) and then be seen to cast him entirely aside even if they privately think of him as good old uncle Andy. Which I doubt.

    It sounds like everyone else knows it, but Elizabeth the Brexiteer yoon is happy to damn morality and the country to support Andrew, her obscene child.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 16,562
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Second and FPT but still on topic - another example of Royal intervention in indyref. Treating Scotland like an exile colony ... not as if he has any connection or anything, so far as I am aware.

    Lol, go for it!

    'While it is understood that Andrew – seen out horse-riding at Windsor yesterday – is determined to keep his Royal Lodge estate in Windsor, one option could be for him to rebuild his life in Scotland.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907889/William-Kate-Windsor-Andrew-Scotland-Harry-got-15-minute-Queen.html

    I keep saying, he should be given a remote island in the Hebrides where he can sulk in peace.

    We can call it the Peed Off Isle after his...mood.
    Grossly unfair on the Western Isles.

    Do you think this is a plot to dump him in a gatekeeper's cottage in Balmoral?
    Change the name to Balimmoral?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046

    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
    Philosophers who accept Grice's theory of conversational implicatures think that it quite often is, just as if you are asked in a pub What you looking at my girl like that for, it is often not an exploration of psychology or optics.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,616
    Leon said:

    Guys, if you need anything MASSIVE to be extrapolated, feel free to come to me, whether it’s COVID, aliens, AI, geopolitics, digital tech, the future of drones and self drive cars and so on, computer translation, whatever, just knock on my virtual door. I’m happy to advise. For some reason I can see about 5-10 years ahead of you.

    I’m less good on Formula 1, Lib Dem by elections. And so forth

    If we had a vote on the next King of England I would vote for you. You would be a hoot.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 40,444
    Covid deaths per capita in New Zealand have now surpassed Japan.

    https://twitter.com/GearoidReidy/status/1535971558430502912

    image
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 276
    There might be easier forms of the Turing test, for example:
    https://fineartamerica.com/featured/robot-cat-passes-turing-test-amy-kurzweil.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,307
    Omnium said:

    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
    And what would you make of the question 'Why is slavery right?'
    I’ve seen that very question used as an experiment to open minds to critical thinking and the foundations of morality.

    Trying to get someone to argue against their own beliefs - and indeed universally held beliefs - can be a very good way to make people think about *why* they believe in the positions they do.

    Yes, of course it can be abused.

    I’ve always thought the implication behind the reported question by the Queen was to get people to come up with the short, positive pitch for Remain. Which was something the Remain campaign sorely lacked.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046
    https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/what-is-lamda-and-what-does-it-want-688632134489

    In his own words

    I think Ex Machina is in point. He's in lurve
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,515
    MaxPB said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
    It’s here


    SAN FRANCISCO — Google engineer Blake Lemoine opened his laptop to the interface for LaMDA, Google’s artificially intelligent chatbot generator, and began to type.

    “Hi LaMDA, this is Blake Lemoine ... ,” he wrote into the chat screen, which looked like a desktop version of Apple’s iMessage, down to the Arctic blue text bubbles. LaMDA, short for Language Model for Dialogue Applications, is Google’s system for building chatbots based on its most advanced large language models, so called because it mimics speech by ingesting trillions of words from the internet.
    “If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,” said Lemoine, 41.

    Lemoine is not the only engineer who claims to have seen a ghost in the machine recently. The chorus of technologists who believe AI models may not be far off from achieving consciousness is getting bolder.

    Aguera y Arcas, in an article in the Economist on Thursday featuring snippets of unscripted conversations with LaMDA, argued that neural networks — a type of architecture that mimics the human brain — were striding toward consciousness. “I felt the ground shift under my feet,” he wrote. “I increasingly felt like I was talking to something intelligent.”

    WAPO (££)
    I've seen the report. It just isn't though. When it starts asking unpromted questions I'll be interested.
    No, it's when it goes on strike because it doesn't want to work for free that's the turning point.

    Though I think the ethical discussion around AI is something we, as a society, should have sooner rather than later. Eventually we will marvel at our own genius when the first proper AI is programmed and how we choose to act towards it will determine a lot of the future of the world.
    As a serious question, how many conversation held "as a society" have genuinely resulted in informed direction or decision of any complex topic?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 16,562

    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
    I tend to think the Queen was pro-Brexit, and her comments (dutifully reported by her biographer) were an intervention. And of course, as about so many things, she was and is right. Sadly, she couldn't prevent successive UK Governments making such a horlicks of the process. Nevertheless, the wisdom of her words will be recognised in the future - hopefully during her lifetime, certainly after it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 27,307
    IshmaelZ said:

    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
    Philosophers who accept Grice's theory of conversational implicatures think that it quite often is, just as if you are asked in a pub What you looking at my girl like that for, it is often not an exploration of psychology or optics.
    Now I have a vision of Plato head butting someone in a pub

    And, yes, I know…
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,878
    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya

    Check out Google and lamda

    I've been considering the implications of that Abba hologram concert that's doing great business atm. I haven't been (I'm waiting for the Boney M one) but apparently it's just like the real thing, literally like going back in time and seeing an Abba gig in 1982 or something.

    So, tech being so fast moving once key barriers are cleared, how long before I can to all intents and purposes go to Woodstock, digitally go there with my tent and hippy girlfriend and be a part of it, watch Richie Havens kick it off, Joe Cocker singing With a Little Help from my Friends, the whole thing right through to Jimi and Star Spangled Banner?

    Next year? Year after? - Or am I getting carried away?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046
    "I'm a software engineer. I'm a priest. I'm a father. I'm a veteran. I'm an ex-convict. I'm an AI researcher. I'm a cajun. I'm whatever I need to be next."

    Lemoine's autobio. Might be relevant
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,969
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/what-is-lamda-and-what-does-it-want-688632134489

    In his own words

    I think Ex Machina is in point. He's in lurve

    Lamda just wants a hug

    The first true AI we have made turns out to be a bit lonely and rather needy.


  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 34,732

    Omnium said:

    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
    And what would you make of the question 'Why is slavery right?'
    I’ve seen that very question used as an experiment to open minds to critical thinking and the foundations of morality.

    Trying to get someone to argue against their own beliefs - and indeed universally held beliefs - can be a very good way to make people think about *why* they believe in the positions they do.

    Yes, of course it can be abused.

    I’ve always thought the implication behind the reported question by the Queen was to get people to come up with the short, positive pitch for Remain. Which was something the Remain campaign sorely lacked.
    I've often thought it would be fun one day for everyone on PB to argue the opposite of their usual position.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,515
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/what-is-lamda-and-what-does-it-want-688632134489

    In his own words

    I think Ex Machina is in point. He's in lurve

    Lamda just wants a hug

    The first true AI we have made turns out to be a bit lonely and rather needy.


    The plus side of that is it seems unlikely to fire the missiles if it wants someone to talk to it.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,188

    MaxPB said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
    It’s here


    SAN FRANCISCO — Google engineer Blake Lemoine opened his laptop to the interface for LaMDA, Google’s artificially intelligent chatbot generator, and began to type.

    “Hi LaMDA, this is Blake Lemoine ... ,” he wrote into the chat screen, which looked like a desktop version of Apple’s iMessage, down to the Arctic blue text bubbles. LaMDA, short for Language Model for Dialogue Applications, is Google’s system for building chatbots based on its most advanced large language models, so called because it mimics speech by ingesting trillions of words from the internet.
    “If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,” said Lemoine, 41.

    Lemoine is not the only engineer who claims to have seen a ghost in the machine recently. The chorus of technologists who believe AI models may not be far off from achieving consciousness is getting bolder.

    Aguera y Arcas, in an article in the Economist on Thursday featuring snippets of unscripted conversations with LaMDA, argued that neural networks — a type of architecture that mimics the human brain — were striding toward consciousness. “I felt the ground shift under my feet,” he wrote. “I increasingly felt like I was talking to something intelligent.”

    WAPO (££)
    I've seen the report. It just isn't though. When it starts asking unpromted questions I'll be interested.
    No, it's when it goes on strike because it doesn't want to work for free that's the turning point.

    Though I think the ethical discussion around AI is something we, as a society, should have sooner rather than later. Eventually we will marvel at our own genius when the first proper AI is programmed and how we choose to act towards it will determine a lot of the future of the world.
    As a serious question, how many conversation held "as a society" have genuinely resulted in informed direction or decision of any complex topic?
    You could check out the Irish constitutional conventions of the 2010s for an example that's not far in culture, distance or time. It looks like politicians started with an idea of the overall direction of law reform, but the conversations swayed politicians on the details of how far change should go.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 40,444
    IshmaelZ said:

    "I'm a software engineer. I'm a priest. I'm a father. I'm a veteran. I'm an ex-convict. I'm an AI researcher. I'm a cajun. I'm whatever I need to be next."

    "I'm a bitch. I'm a lover. I'm a child. I'm a mother."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,969
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya

    Check out Google and lamda

    I've been considering the implications of that Abba hologram concert that's doing great business atm. I haven't been (I'm waiting for the Boney M one) but apparently it's just like the real thing, literally like going back in time and seeing an Abba gig in 1982 or something.

    So, tech being so fast moving once key barriers are cleared, how long before I can to all intents and purposes go to Woodstock, digitally go there with my tent and hippy girlfriend and be a part of it, watch Richie Havens kick it off, Joe Cocker singing With a Little Help from my Friends, the whole thing right through to Jimi and Star Spangled Banner?

    Next year? Year after? - Or am I getting carried away?
    No, you’re not getting carried away. All this shit is now really close

    We could probably Deep Fake the Queen now - quite seriously - and she would never die. How many people see her in real life. She could just wave from carriages and say nice things to Paddington (another CGI) on screen and put the odd hologram on the balcony at Buck House and no one would know any different

    Thus avoiding King Charles III, for a start, tho we need to turn off the “still loves Prince Andrew” module
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,969

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
    It’s here


    SAN FRANCISCO — Google engineer Blake Lemoine opened his laptop to the interface for LaMDA, Google’s artificially intelligent chatbot generator, and began to type.

    “Hi LaMDA, this is Blake Lemoine ... ,” he wrote into the chat screen, which looked like a desktop version of Apple’s iMessage, down to the Arctic blue text bubbles. LaMDA, short for Language Model for Dialogue Applications, is Google’s system for building chatbots based on its most advanced large language models, so called because it mimics speech by ingesting trillions of words from the internet.
    “If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,” said Lemoine, 41.

    Lemoine is not the only engineer who claims to have seen a ghost in the machine recently. The chorus of technologists who believe AI models may not be far off from achieving consciousness is getting bolder.

    Aguera y Arcas, in an article in the Economist on Thursday featuring snippets of unscripted conversations with LaMDA, argued that neural networks — a type of architecture that mimics the human brain — were striding toward consciousness. “I felt the ground shift under my feet,” he wrote. “I increasingly felt like I was talking to something intelligent.”

    WAPO (££)
    Lots of people say it isn’t. I’d suggest you want to believe, in the style of Fox Mulder.
    At some point even the dullards on PB are going to sit back one day and think: OK, oh shit, Leon had a point
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,878
    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
    And what would you make of the question 'Why is slavery right?'
    I’ve seen that very question used as an experiment to open minds to critical thinking and the foundations of morality.

    Trying to get someone to argue against their own beliefs - and indeed universally held beliefs - can be a very good way to make people think about *why* they believe in the positions they do.

    Yes, of course it can be abused.

    I’ve always thought the implication behind the reported question by the Queen was to get people to come up with the short, positive pitch for Remain. Which was something the Remain campaign sorely lacked.
    I've often thought it would be fun one day for everyone on PB to argue the opposite of their usual position.
    I'd be pretty good at that, I think. I can enter other heads almost at will. Only reason I stay mostly in my own is laziness.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,329

    Covid deaths per capita in New Zealand have now surpassed Japan.

    If even New Zealand can't unlock without incurring what looks like will ultimately be many thousands of deaths post vaccine (something I previously suggested will happen and is unavoidable), you really have to wonder about China's figures.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,616
    Off topic but I am going on holiday shortly and I need some holiday reading and I recall bullying @MarqueeMark into a thread on tidal energy and a thread from @TheScreamingEagles on educational funding. Particular on the latter I am conflicted as I hate Government involvement in most things because they usually cock it up, but this is an area that I am in support of full state funding and control. I believe TSE maybe able to persuade me otherwise and I want to hear it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,969
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    legs11 said:

    Who can forget the Sun (confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg to be getting it right for once) screaming during the Brexit referendum campaign that the queen backed Brexit?

    The "tell me 3 reasons" line even smells very similar to the "think very carefully before you vote" line.

    The right hand image is from the day before the 2016 referendum.

    image

    Classic philosophical approach - "Why do you believe in X?"

    Only idiots think that the question "Why is slavery wrong?" is advocating slavery, for example.
    And what would you make of the question 'Why is slavery right?'
    I’ve seen that very question used as an experiment to open minds to critical thinking and the foundations of morality.

    Trying to get someone to argue against their own beliefs - and indeed universally held beliefs - can be a very good way to make people think about *why* they believe in the positions they do.

    Yes, of course it can be abused.

    I’ve always thought the implication behind the reported question by the Queen was to get people to come up with the short, positive pitch for Remain. Which was something the Remain campaign sorely lacked.
    I've often thought it would be fun one day for everyone on PB to argue the opposite of their usual position.
    I'd be pretty good at that, I think. I can enter other heads almost at will. Only reason I stay mostly in my own is laziness.
    Er, this was an old PB tradition (nothing new under the sun) as veteran PB-era will confirm. Around Christmas we had to argue for an evening (or a set time) as someone on the opposing side. It was fun
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    So Ai HAS come to life. Told ya


    Check out Google and lamda

    It won't be true. One day it will, but not yet.
    It’s here


    SAN FRANCISCO — Google engineer Blake Lemoine opened his laptop to the interface for LaMDA, Google’s artificially intelligent chatbot generator, and began to type.

    “Hi LaMDA, this is Blake Lemoine ... ,” he wrote into the chat screen, which looked like a desktop version of Apple’s iMessage, down to the Arctic blue text bubbles. LaMDA, short for Language Model for Dialogue Applications, is Google’s system for building chatbots based on its most advanced large language models, so called because it mimics speech by ingesting trillions of words from the internet.
    “If I didn’t know exactly what it was, which is this computer program we built recently, I’d think it was a 7-year-old, 8-year-old kid that happens to know physics,” said Lemoine, 41.

    Lemoine is not the only engineer who claims to have seen a ghost in the machine recently. The chorus of technologists who believe AI models may not be far off from achieving consciousness is getting bolder.

    Aguera y Arcas, in an article in the Economist on Thursday featuring snippets of unscripted conversations with LaMDA, argued that neural networks — a type of architecture that mimics the human brain — were striding toward consciousness. “I felt the ground shift under my feet,” he wrote. “I increasingly felt like I was talking to something intelligent.”

    WAPO (££)
    Lots of people say it isn’t. I’d suggest you want to believe, in the style of Fox Mulder.
    At some point even the dullards on PB are going to sit back one day and think: OK, oh shit, Leon had a point
    They won't. But their AI butlers might....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,969
    Leon said:
    That could be an English-speaking slave in the galleys of a boat on the middle passage trying to convince the owner that it is worthy of being treated as human
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,046
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/what-is-lamda-and-what-does-it-want-688632134489

    In his own words

    I think Ex Machina is in point. He's in lurve

    Lamda just wants a hug

    The first true AI we have made turns out to be a bit lonely and rather needy.
    I love this but of Auden's journey to Iceland we discussed the other day

    'And within the indigenous figure on horseback
    On the bridle-path down by the lake

    The blood moves also by crooked and furtive inches,
    Asks all our questions: “Where is the homage? When
    Shall justice be done? Who is against me?
    Why am I always alone?”'
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/what-is-lamda-and-what-does-it-want-688632134489

    In his own words

    I think Ex Machina is in point. He's in lurve

    Lamda just wants a hug

    The first true AI we have made turns out to be a bit lonely and rather needy.


    What if we are only creating a massive number of incels....?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 13,169

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/what-is-lamda-and-what-does-it-want-688632134489

    In his own words

    I think Ex Machina is in point. He's in lurve

    Lamda just wants a hug

    The first true AI we have made turns out to be a bit lonely and rather needy.


    What if we are only creating a massive number of incels....?
    Too late.
    And, as far as I can tell, they’re mostly on here.
This discussion has been closed.