While the tennis gets quite exciting, I guess some people know that Roland Garros wasn't a tennis player?
He was a pilot, and the first one to shoot down an enemy with a gun that fired through the propeller.
I used to watch it on FreeView on ITV4 but they've stopped it now and I have no idea what's going on this year, apart from the fact that Emma has been knocked out.
You can watch the tennis on Betfair. Other bookmakers are available. Obviously, it is not as good a picture as you'd have on your big telly but it does the job for individual viewing.
ETA navigate via tennis to the match, then press live stream.
ETA and if you press the pop-out icon in the bottom right, you can get a bigger picture.
Just realised something. The last election winner to be removed at the ballot box was John Major. Before that it was Ted Heath. That's once in 47 years.
Wilson and Attlee. 4 in nearly 80 years
Yep. And Wilson got two more goes. So I'm not entirely sure he counts the same.
True, yes. So defeated and gone are Attlee, Heath (after a 27 year sulk) and Major (to the Oval)
If we discount Churchill, Salisbury, Baldwin and Gladstone for the same reason as Wilson, then believe it or not the previous election winner sacked by the electorate who never returned to the premiership was Disraeli in 1880.
And before him it was Melbourne in 1841.
Wow. That's some stat. It is vanishingly rare. Being an "election winner" is actually far more of a booster for Big Dog than it at first appears.
Thinking outside the box now. If he did use an FPN on Starmer to call an election... The obvious Labour candidate is one ACL Blair. History is his friend here.
Hang on a sec. There would be an almighty constitutional crisis, thats for sure. HM Loyal Opposition is supposed to be ready to step into government at any time - especially during an election. Both the leader and deputy leader would have gone. I don't recall anything in the Labour Party constitution which covers this scenario in terms of who takes control who would be a viable LOTO and ready to become PM in a few weeks.
How then do we get to Blair? OK, there is no constitutional bar on a non-MP being a minister. But how and why do Labour select him as even an interim LOTO and candidate to lead a government?
OK, lets assume that Starmer and Rayner resign in the immediate aftermath of an election which Labour win. So the question is who does the Palace call to ask to form a government. Again, how do we get to Blair?
Presumably if SKS and Rayner quit, the NEC has to pick an interim leader (general election campaign or not)?
Yep. Labour Rule Book:
"When the Party is in opposition and the leader and deputy leader, for whatever reason, both become permanently unavailable, the NEC shall order a ballot as provided under E above. In consultation with the Shadow Cabinet they may choose to appoint a member of the Shadow Cabinet to serve as Party leader until the outcome of that ballot.
So much for that Johnson wheeze then. Within 24 hours Labour could be galvanised by a more exciting and electable leader than they were 24hrs earlier with a lot of public sympathy for their outgoing leadership doing the honourable thing.
Or they could pick someone far left and unelectable again, Streeting might be a net benefit for them most other alternatives are no better than Starmer if not worse.
In any case I think once he and Rayner have filled in their questionnaires they will avoid a fine
Wrong. We are talking about the Boris pressing the GE button, as save big dog squad blackmailing tonight, whilst 11 points behind in polls, and Starmer and Rayner both having to step down - NEC call for leadership election, and NEC and Shadow cabinet appoint leader and deputy for rest of General Election campaign and beyond. That will not be an unelectable care taker. In fact whoever said Blair is caretaker made a brilliant call.
The absolutely fascinating scenario, if we are playing this game, is the following:
a) Durham police issue the FPNs. b) Johnson presses GE button immediately he hears that news and just before his own defenestration. c) Lab NEC appoint interim leader pending a proper leadership election. d) Interim leader fronts GE campaign and wins a landslide. e) Let's imagine that interim leader is Blair.
f) Who does the Queen ask to form a Government?
I dont think we have to worry about Blair winning any election he fronts. He'd make Boris look palatable. I assume actually big dog would remain PM with team until labour vote in a leader on the understanding doing 'anything' would invoke a VONC. Hed get nothing through parliament anyway.
Just realised something. The last election winner to be removed at the ballot box was John Major. Before that it was Ted Heath. That's once in 47 years.
Wilson and Attlee. 4 in nearly 80 years
Yep. And Wilson got two more goes. So I'm not entirely sure he counts the same.
True, yes. So defeated and gone are Attlee, Heath (after a 27 year sulk) and Major (to the Oval)
If we discount Churchill, Salisbury, Baldwin and Gladstone for the same reason as Wilson, then believe it or not the previous election winner sacked by the electorate who never returned to the premiership was Disraeli in 1880.
And before him it was Melbourne in 1841.
Wow. That's some stat. It is vanishingly rare. Being an "election winner" is actually far more of a booster for Big Dog than it at first appears.
Thinking outside the box now. If he did use an FPN on Starmer to call an election... The obvious Labour candidate is one ACL Blair. History is his friend here.
Hang on a sec. There would be an almighty constitutional crisis, thats for sure. HM Loyal Opposition is supposed to be ready to step into government at any time - especially during an election. Both the leader and deputy leader would have gone. I don't recall anything in the Labour Party constitution which covers this scenario in terms of who takes control who would be a viable LOTO and ready to become PM in a few weeks.
How then do we get to Blair? OK, there is no constitutional bar on a non-MP being a minister. But how and why do Labour select him as even an interim LOTO and candidate to lead a government?
OK, lets assume that Starmer and Rayner resign in the immediate aftermath of an election which Labour win. So the question is who does the Palace call to ask to form a government. Again, how do we get to Blair?
Presumably if SKS and Rayner quit, the NEC has to pick an interim leader (general election campaign or not)?
Yep. Labour Rule Book:
"When the Party is in opposition and the leader and deputy leader, for whatever reason, both become permanently unavailable, the NEC shall order a ballot as provided under E above. In consultation with the Shadow Cabinet they may choose to appoint a member of the Shadow Cabinet to serve as Party leader until the outcome of that ballot.
So much for that Johnson wheeze then. Within 24 hours Labour could be galvanised by a more exciting and electable leader than they were 24hrs earlier with a lot of public sympathy for their outgoing leadership doing the honourable thing.
Or they could pick someone far left and unelectable again, Streeting might be a net benefit for them most other alternatives are no better than Starmer if not worse.
In any case I think once he and Rayner have filled in their questionnaires they will avoid a fine
Wrong. We are talking about the Boris pressing the GE button, as save big dog squad blackmailing tonight, whilst 11 points behind in polls, and Starmer and Rayner both having to step down - NEC call for leadership election, and NEC and Shadow cabinet appoint leader and deputy for rest of General Election campaign and beyond. That will not be an unelectable care taker. In fact whoever said Blair is caretaker made a brilliant call.
The absolutely fascinating scenario, if we are playing this game, is the following:
a) Durham police issue the FPNs. b) Johnson presses GE button immediately he hears that news and just before his own defenestration. c) Lab NEC appoint interim leader pending a proper leadership election. d) Interim leader fronts GE campaign and wins a landslide. e) Let's imagine that interim leader is Blair.
f) Who does the Queen ask to form a Government?
Blair would not - presumably - be running as a parliamentary candidate, so I presume it would be whichever Labour MP could get a majority of MPs to support him.
Ive just realised the rules say NEC must appoint a member of Shadow Cabinet as interim leader if both leader and deputy curry eater go down.
Just realised something. The last election winner to be removed at the ballot box was John Major. Before that it was Ted Heath. That's once in 47 years.
Wilson and Attlee. 4 in nearly 80 years
Yep. And Wilson got two more goes. So I'm not entirely sure he counts the same.
True, yes. So defeated and gone are Attlee, Heath (after a 27 year sulk) and Major (to the Oval)
I do wonder whether May can manage 25 more years of sulking and haunting to beat Heaths record. She seems to be enjoying the schadenfreude than the top job.
I think that Lady May sees public service as a calling. Whilst she is no longer serving "the country I love" as Prime Minister, she likely feels she is providing a service to that country from the backbenches holding the executive to account.
I have a lot more respect for her in this role than I did her previous role.
I think it would be very interesting if she were to return to the Cabinet under a new leader one day (though I think that unlikely). I dare say she will have plenty of critics of her time there, but there have also been far worse figures in the Cabinet, and it would be intriguing to see a former PM return to a lesser, better suited role.
Making good use of former PMs is something the UK does badly- like it or not, they have experience that few others posess. Though having said that, does any nation do that well?
Good question. There's Stoltenberg, ex-PM and then head of NATO. Can't think of many others. What about comebacks as leader? There are the ones which were just dodging a rule about not being elected twice running (Putin says hi), but I can't think of others.
May would make a good appointment in a role where total uprightness is required. Does the attorney-general have to be a lawyer?
Indira Gandhi was PM 1966 to 1977, lost heavily at the election that year, but came back to be PM again from 1980 to 1984.
Narendra Modi's predecessor as BJP leader, Atal Behari Vajpayee, was PM for 16 days in 1996 (resigned due to lack of a majority), then came back from 1998 to 2004.
Just realised something. The last election winner to be removed at the ballot box was John Major. Before that it was Ted Heath. That's once in 47 years.
Wilson and Attlee. 4 in nearly 80 years
Yep. And Wilson got two more goes. So I'm not entirely sure he counts the same.
True, yes. So defeated and gone are Attlee, Heath (after a 27 year sulk) and Major (to the Oval)
If we discount Churchill, Salisbury, Baldwin and Gladstone for the same reason as Wilson, then believe it or not the previous election winner sacked by the electorate who never returned to the premiership was Disraeli in 1880.
And before him it was Melbourne in 1841.
Wow. That's some stat. It is vanishingly rare. Being an "election winner" is actually far more of a booster for Big Dog than it at first appears.
Thinking outside the box now. If he did use an FPN on Starmer to call an election... The obvious Labour candidate is one ACL Blair. History is his friend here.
Hang on a sec. There would be an almighty constitutional crisis, thats for sure. HM Loyal Opposition is supposed to be ready to step into government at any time - especially during an election. Both the leader and deputy leader would have gone. I don't recall anything in the Labour Party constitution which covers this scenario in terms of who takes control who would be a viable LOTO and ready to become PM in a few weeks.
How then do we get to Blair? OK, there is no constitutional bar on a non-MP being a minister. But how and why do Labour select him as even an interim LOTO and candidate to lead a government?
OK, lets assume that Starmer and Rayner resign in the immediate aftermath of an election which Labour win. So the question is who does the Palace call to ask to form a government. Again, how do we get to Blair?
Presumably if SKS and Rayner quit, the NEC has to pick an interim leader (general election campaign or not)?
Yep. Labour Rule Book:
"When the Party is in opposition and the leader and deputy leader, for whatever reason, both become permanently unavailable, the NEC shall order a ballot as provided under E above. In consultation with the Shadow Cabinet they may choose to appoint a member of the Shadow Cabinet to serve as Party leader until the outcome of that ballot.
So much for that Johnson wheeze then. Within 24 hours Labour could be galvanised by a more exciting and electable leader than they were 24hrs earlier with a lot of public sympathy for their outgoing leadership doing the honourable thing.
Or they could pick someone far left and unelectable again, Streeting might be a net benefit for them most other alternatives are no better than Starmer if not worse.
In any case I think once he and Rayner have filled in their questionnaires they will avoid a fine
Wrong. We are talking about the Boris pressing the GE button, as save big dog squad blackmailing tonight, whilst 11 points behind in polls, and Starmer and Rayner both having to step down - NEC call for leadership election, and NEC and Shadow cabinet appoint leader and deputy for rest of General Election campaign and beyond. That will not be an unelectable care taker. In fact whoever said Blair is caretaker made a brilliant call.
The absolutely fascinating scenario, if we are playing this game, is the following:
a) Durham police issue the FPNs. b) Johnson presses GE button immediately he hears that news and just before his own defenestration. c) Lab NEC appoint interim leader pending a proper leadership election. d) Interim leader fronts GE campaign and wins a landslide. e) Let's imagine that interim leader is Blair.
f) Who does the Queen ask to form a Government?
Blair would not - presumably - be running as a parliamentary candidate, so I presume it would be whichever Labour MP could get a majority of MPs to support him.
Ive just realised the rules say NEC must appoint a member of Shadow Cabinet as interim leader if both leader and deputy curry eater go down.
Blair is out.
As is Harperson and Becket.
Looking like Ed M frankly.
I think its just in consultation with the shadow realm. However i think the answer to our problem is Starmer announces he will resign on conclusion of an election for leader. So HMQ summons Starmer who gets to serve for the shortest period of any PM ever. And if theres an issue, Rayner quits, deputy leadership battle commences, Starmer anniunces he'll quit once deputy in place then leader battle commences and Labour (who have somehow won an election amidst this nonsense) have 2 mayfly PMs on the bounce and become a joke government before even starting. Or they let Dog run riot for a month whilst they sort themsrlves out.
Just realised something. The last election winner to be removed at the ballot box was John Major. Before that it was Ted Heath. That's once in 47 years.
Wilson and Attlee. 4 in nearly 80 years
Yep. And Wilson got two more goes. So I'm not entirely sure he counts the same.
True, yes. So defeated and gone are Attlee, Heath (after a 27 year sulk) and Major (to the Oval)
I do wonder whether May can manage 25 more years of sulking and haunting to beat Heaths record. She seems to be enjoying the schadenfreude than the top job.
I think that Lady May sees public service as a calling. Whilst she is no longer serving "the country I love" as Prime Minister, she likely feels she is providing a service to that country from the backbenches holding the executive to account.
I have a lot more respect for her in this role than I did her previous role.
I think it would be very interesting if she were to return to the Cabinet under a new leader one day (though I think that unlikely). I dare say she will have plenty of critics of her time there, but there have also been far worse figures in the Cabinet, and it would be intriguing to see a former PM return to a lesser, better suited role.
Making good use of former PMs is something the UK does badly- like it or not, they have experience that few others posess. Though having said that, does any nation do that well?
May not be viable in many systems, where there are term limits for leaders and possibly bars on what they can do afterwards in formal politics, which may well lead to more shadowy, esoteric influence only. In others I wonder if like us many of them have gotten out of the habit of giving leaders second chances, so those who lose election simply never get the opportunity to rebuild, as new leaders are unlikely to want them in their ranks and they might see it as humiliating. Which is a shame.
I think there was at least one former US President who was later a member of Congress.
John Quincy Adams.
And one (Taft) a Supreme Court justice.
It’s unusual, though. Carter has had a pretty good second act.
As predicted by some on here, ok me, the “fiasco au stade de France” is impacting wider French politics
You really should have a word with the PBers who were blaming Liverpool fans on Saturday.
There obviously needs to be an impartial investigation, because there are likely lots lessons to be learned we can only speculate at this evening.
I have a few ideas though.
To start with, both this disaster and the one at Wembley are owned as Euafa events, but aspects if the management of them and the security is outsourced to other stakeholders, who in turn further outsource? Maybe Ueafa can be more actively involved themselves, with both a set of principles and a team to ensure all parties involved follow the Euafa principles.
For example.
Is it that much harder to forge eTickets than Paper ones? If so, I’m tempted to say one principle is eTicket admission only, no paper tickets. But I would need to be sure that is technically true. If fans say they don’t have smart phones, or even if they do, how much will it cost Euafa to gift each ticket holder a simple device with their clubs branding - a e-ticket device free with each ticket for example to beat the fraud?
Secondly, particularly the case at Wembley, too many fans with no tickets, also possibly fake tickets, far too close to the turnstiles and fencing at the match stadium, there should be a cordon further away for ticket checking to avoid pressure on turnstiles gates and fences. The dmz between ticket checking cordon and the ground is ideal space for any required security presence to sit and operate effectively.
Thirdly, in the case of Paris, Police had pre conceived expectations of fans that can lead to self fulfilling prophecy, my suggestion is use more stewarding and police from the cities or countries of the two teams playing.
The security of eTickets depends on the implantation. Properly done, with good crypto practices, orders of magnitude more secure than any paper ticket. Nothing really new - the concepts behind such systems are quite old, now.
The cost of cheap android phones is such that giving them away with tickets is perfectly possible.
A properly implanted e-ticket system could be designed so that verification would be quick and trivial, without impacting the security of the ticket. So that *anyone* with an app could verify the ticket is legit. Which would make an outer cordon to filter ticket holders from non ticket holders much easier.
Just realised something. The last election winner to be removed at the ballot box was John Major. Before that it was Ted Heath. That's once in 47 years.
Wilson and Attlee. 4 in nearly 80 years
Yep. And Wilson got two more goes. So I'm not entirely sure he counts the same.
True, yes. So defeated and gone are Attlee, Heath (after a 27 year sulk) and Major (to the Oval)
If we discount Churchill, Salisbury, Baldwin and Gladstone for the same reason as Wilson, then believe it or not the previous election winner sacked by the electorate who never returned to the premiership was Disraeli in 1880.
And before him it was Melbourne in 1841.
Wow. That's some stat. It is vanishingly rare. Being an "election winner" is actually far more of a booster for Big Dog than it at first appears.
Thinking outside the box now. If he did use an FPN on Starmer to call an election... The obvious Labour candidate is one ACL Blair. History is his friend here.
Hang on a sec. There would be an almighty constitutional crisis, thats for sure. HM Loyal Opposition is supposed to be ready to step into government at any time - especially during an election. Both the leader and deputy leader would have gone. I don't recall anything in the Labour Party constitution which covers this scenario in terms of who takes control who would be a viable LOTO and ready to become PM in a few weeks.
How then do we get to Blair? OK, there is no constitutional bar on a non-MP being a minister. But how and why do Labour select him as even an interim LOTO and candidate to lead a government?
OK, lets assume that Starmer and Rayner resign in the immediate aftermath of an election which Labour win. So the question is who does the Palace call to ask to form a government. Again, how do we get to Blair?
Presumably if SKS and Rayner quit, the NEC has to pick an interim leader (general election campaign or not)?
Yep. Labour Rule Book:
"When the Party is in opposition and the leader and deputy leader, for whatever reason, both become permanently unavailable, the NEC shall order a ballot as provided under E above. In consultation with the Shadow Cabinet they may choose to appoint a member of the Shadow Cabinet to serve as Party leader until the outcome of that ballot.
So much for that Johnson wheeze then. Within 24 hours Labour could be galvanised by a more exciting and electable leader than they were 24hrs earlier with a lot of public sympathy for their outgoing leadership doing the honourable thing.
Or they could pick someone far left and unelectable again, Streeting might be a net benefit for them most other alternatives are no better than Starmer if not worse.
In any case I think once he and Rayner have filled in their questionnaires they will avoid a fine
Wrong. We are talking about the Boris pressing the GE button, as save big dog squad blackmailing tonight, whilst 11 points behind in polls, and Starmer and Rayner both having to step down - NEC call for leadership election, and NEC and Shadow cabinet appoint leader and deputy for rest of General Election campaign and beyond. That will not be an unelectable care taker. In fact whoever said Blair is caretaker made a brilliant call.
The absolutely fascinating scenario, if we are playing this game, is the following:
a) Durham police issue the FPNs. b) Johnson presses GE button immediately he hears that news and just before his own defenestration. c) Lab NEC appoint interim leader pending a proper leadership election. d) Interim leader fronts GE campaign and wins a landslide. e) Let's imagine that interim leader is Blair.
f) Who does the Queen ask to form a Government?
Blair would not - presumably - be running as a parliamentary candidate, so I presume it would be whichever Labour MP could get a majority of MPs to support him.
Ive just realised the rules say NEC must appoint a member of Shadow Cabinet as interim leader if both leader and deputy curry eater go down.
Blair is out.
As is Harperson and Becket.
Looking like Ed M frankly.
I think its just in consultation with the shadow realm. However i think the answer to our problem is Starmer announces he will resign on conclusion of an election for leader. So HMQ summons Starmer who gets to serve for the shortest period of any PM ever. And if theres an issue, Rayner quits, deputy leadership battle commences, Starmer anniunces he'll quit once deputy in place then leader battle commences and Labour (who have somehow won an election amidst this nonsense) have 2 mayfly PMs on the bounce and become a joke government before even starting. Or they let Dog run riot for a month whilst they sort themsrlves out.
Messy
Or NEC appoint Starmer back as temp leader pending election for leader agreed by shad cab. Again, joke government from the start. Or Starmer acts as PM with the confidence of the house pending new labour leader but quits as Labour party leader and the NEC do an emergency rule change to accomodate. Labour look ridiculous whatever.
For the huge numbers of tory members would would vote Patel given a vote next week based on Rwanda and bring back hanging for sheep stealers etc etc...
So if Boris goes it has to be Wallace or Javid then if the Tories want to see any electoral improvement.
Hunt, Truss, Raab, Gove, Sunak, Zahawi and Patel would all do worse than Boris is
You can’t know that from those numbers. How did Major poll before he announced a run for the leadership ?
The Uvalde PD and Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Dept. of Public Safety's investigation into Robb Elementary School shooting, multiple law enforcement sources tell @ABC News. https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/1531746408000368648
As predicted by some on here, ok me, the “fiasco au stade de France” is impacting wider French politics
You really should have a word with the PBers who were blaming Liverpool fans on Saturday.
There obviously needs to be an impartial investigation, because there are likely lots lessons to be learned we can only speculate at this evening.
I have a few ideas though.
To start with, both this disaster and the one at Wembley are owned as Euafa events, but aspects if the management of them and the security is outsourced to other stakeholders, who in turn further outsource? Maybe Ueafa can be more actively involved themselves, with both a set of principles and a team to ensure all parties involved follow the Euafa principles.
For example.
Is it that much harder to forge eTickets than Paper ones? If so, I’m tempted to say one principle is eTicket admission only, no paper tickets. But I would need to be sure that is technically true. If fans say they don’t have smart phones, or even if they do, how much will it cost Euafa to gift each ticket holder a simple device with their clubs branding - a e-ticket device free with each ticket for example to beat the fraud?
Secondly, particularly the case at Wembley, too many fans with no tickets, also possibly fake tickets, far too close to the turnstiles and fencing at the match stadium, there should be a cordon further away for ticket checking to avoid pressure on turnstiles gates and fences. The dmz between ticket checking cordon and the ground is ideal space for any required security presence to sit and operate effectively.
Thirdly, in the case of Paris, Police had pre conceived expectations of fans that can lead to self fulfilling prophecy, my suggestion is use more stewarding and police from the cities or countries of the two teams playing.
The security of eTickets depends on the implantation. Properly done, with good crypto practices, orders of magnitude more secure than any paper ticket. Nothing really new - the concepts behind such systems are quite old, now.
The cost of cheap android phones is such that giving them away with tickets is perfectly possible.
A properly implanted e-ticket system could be designed so that verification would be quick and trivial, without impacting the security of the ticket. So that *anyone* with an app could verify the ticket is legit. Which would make an outer cordon to filter ticket holders from non ticket holders much easier.
Thank you Malmsy. 🥰
So MalmsyRabbitSecureTicketing.com is born. How do we register with Company House? And once we got the brochure printed we can contact Aleksander Čeferin and say, we are so bloody brilliant we can save your ass mate.
Just realised something. The last election winner to be removed at the ballot box was John Major. Before that it was Ted Heath. That's once in 47 years.
Wilson and Attlee. 4 in nearly 80 years
Yep. And Wilson got two more goes. So I'm not entirely sure he counts the same.
True, yes. So defeated and gone are Attlee, Heath (after a 27 year sulk) and Major (to the Oval)
If we discount Churchill, Salisbury, Baldwin and Gladstone for the same reason as Wilson, then believe it or not the previous election winner sacked by the electorate who never returned to the premiership was Disraeli in 1880.
And before him it was Melbourne in 1841.
Wow. That's some stat. It is vanishingly rare. Being an "election winner" is actually far more of a booster for Big Dog than it at first appears.
Thinking outside the box now. If he did use an FPN on Starmer to call an election... The obvious Labour candidate is one ACL Blair. History is his friend here.
Hang on a sec. There would be an almighty constitutional crisis, thats for sure. HM Loyal Opposition is supposed to be ready to step into government at any time - especially during an election. Both the leader and deputy leader would have gone. I don't recall anything in the Labour Party constitution which covers this scenario in terms of who takes control who would be a viable LOTO and ready to become PM in a few weeks.
How then do we get to Blair? OK, there is no constitutional bar on a non-MP being a minister. But how and why do Labour select him as even an interim LOTO and candidate to lead a government?
OK, lets assume that Starmer and Rayner resign in the immediate aftermath of an election which Labour win. So the question is who does the Palace call to ask to form a government. Again, how do we get to Blair?
Presumably if SKS and Rayner quit, the NEC has to pick an interim leader (general election campaign or not)?
Yep. Labour Rule Book:
"When the Party is in opposition and the leader and deputy leader, for whatever reason, both become permanently unavailable, the NEC shall order a ballot as provided under E above. In consultation with the Shadow Cabinet they may choose to appoint a member of the Shadow Cabinet to serve as Party leader until the outcome of that ballot.
So much for that Johnson wheeze then. Within 24 hours Labour could be galvanised by a more exciting and electable leader than they were 24hrs earlier with a lot of public sympathy for their outgoing leadership doing the honourable thing.
Or they could pick someone far left and unelectable again, Streeting might be a net benefit for them most other alternatives are no better than Starmer if not worse.
In any case I think once he and Rayner have filled in their questionnaires they will avoid a fine
Wrong. We are talking about the Boris pressing the GE button, as save big dog squad blackmailing tonight, whilst 11 points behind in polls, and Starmer and Rayner both having to step down - NEC call for leadership election, and NEC and Shadow cabinet appoint leader and deputy for rest of General Election campaign and beyond. That will not be an unelectable care taker. In fact whoever said Blair is caretaker made a brilliant call.
The absolutely fascinating scenario, if we are playing this game, is the following:
a) Durham police issue the FPNs. b) Johnson presses GE button immediately he hears that news and just before his own defenestration. c) Lab NEC appoint interim leader pending a proper leadership election. d) Interim leader fronts GE campaign and wins a landslide. e) Let's imagine that interim leader is Blair.
f) Who does the Queen ask to form a Government?
Would have to be Blair, surely. Can't see the Queen being activated for anyone else in those circumstances.
As predicted by some on here, ok me, the “fiasco au stade de France” is impacting wider French politics
You really should have a word with the PBers who were blaming Liverpool fans on Saturday.
There obviously needs to be an impartial investigation, because there are likely lots lessons to be learned we can only speculate at this evening.
I have a few ideas though.
To start with, both this disaster and the one at Wembley are owned as Euafa events, but aspects if the management of them and the security is outsourced to other stakeholders, who in turn further outsource? Maybe Ueafa can be more actively involved themselves, with both a set of principles and a team to ensure all parties involved follow the Euafa principles.
For example.
Is it that much harder to forge eTickets than Paper ones? If so, I’m tempted to say one principle is eTicket admission only, no paper tickets. But I would need to be sure that is technically true. If fans say they don’t have smart phones, or even if they do, how much will it cost Euafa to gift each ticket holder a simple device with their clubs branding - a e-ticket device free with each ticket for example to beat the fraud?
Secondly, particularly the case at Wembley, too many fans with no tickets, also possibly fake tickets, far too close to the turnstiles and fencing at the match stadium, there should be a cordon further away for ticket checking to avoid pressure on turnstiles gates and fences. The dmz between ticket checking cordon and the ground is ideal space for any required security presence to sit and operate effectively.
Thirdly, in the case of Paris, Police had pre conceived expectations of fans that can lead to self fulfilling prophecy, my suggestion is use more stewarding and police from the cities or countries of the two teams playing.
The security of eTickets depends on the implantation. Properly done, with good crypto practices, orders of magnitude more secure than any paper ticket. Nothing really new - the concepts behind such systems are quite old, now.
The cost of cheap android phones is such that giving them away with tickets is perfectly possible.
A properly implanted e-ticket system could be designed so that verification would be quick and trivial, without impacting the security of the ticket. So that *anyone* with an app could verify the ticket is legit. Which would make an outer cordon to filter ticket holders from non ticket holders much easier.
Thank you Malmsy. 🥰
So MalmsyRabbitSecureTicketing.com is born. How do we register with Company House? And once we got the brochure printed we can contact Aleksander Čeferin and say, we are so bloody brilliant we can save your ass mate.
How do you prevent enterprising Parisians mugging fans for their phones, as happened the other night? All you've done is make sure the French villains get the tickets as well.
Just realised something. The last election winner to be removed at the ballot box was John Major. Before that it was Ted Heath. That's once in 47 years.
Wilson and Attlee. 4 in nearly 80 years
Yep. And Wilson got two more goes. So I'm not entirely sure he counts the same.
True, yes. So defeated and gone are Attlee, Heath (after a 27 year sulk) and Major (to the Oval)
If we discount Churchill, Salisbury, Baldwin and Gladstone for the same reason as Wilson, then believe it or not the previous election winner sacked by the electorate who never returned to the premiership was Disraeli in 1880.
And before him it was Melbourne in 1841.
Wow. That's some stat. It is vanishingly rare. Being an "election winner" is actually far more of a booster for Big Dog than it at first appears.
Thinking outside the box now. If he did use an FPN on Starmer to call an election... The obvious Labour candidate is one ACL Blair. History is his friend here.
Hang on a sec. There would be an almighty constitutional crisis, thats for sure. HM Loyal Opposition is supposed to be ready to step into government at any time - especially during an election. Both the leader and deputy leader would have gone. I don't recall anything in the Labour Party constitution which covers this scenario in terms of who takes control who would be a viable LOTO and ready to become PM in a few weeks.
How then do we get to Blair? OK, there is no constitutional bar on a non-MP being a minister. But how and why do Labour select him as even an interim LOTO and candidate to lead a government?
OK, lets assume that Starmer and Rayner resign in the immediate aftermath of an election which Labour win. So the question is who does the Palace call to ask to form a government. Again, how do we get to Blair?
Presumably if SKS and Rayner quit, the NEC has to pick an interim leader (general election campaign or not)?
Yep. Labour Rule Book:
"When the Party is in opposition and the leader and deputy leader, for whatever reason, both become permanently unavailable, the NEC shall order a ballot as provided under E above. In consultation with the Shadow Cabinet they may choose to appoint a member of the Shadow Cabinet to serve as Party leader until the outcome of that ballot.
So much for that Johnson wheeze then. Within 24 hours Labour could be galvanised by a more exciting and electable leader than they were 24hrs earlier with a lot of public sympathy for their outgoing leadership doing the honourable thing.
Or they could pick someone far left and unelectable again, Streeting might be a net benefit for them most other alternatives are no better than Starmer if not worse.
In any case I think once he and Rayner have filled in their questionnaires they will avoid a fine
Wrong. We are talking about the Boris pressing the GE button, as save big dog squad blackmailing tonight, whilst 11 points behind in polls, and Starmer and Rayner both having to step down - NEC call for leadership election, and NEC and Shadow cabinet appoint leader and deputy for rest of General Election campaign and beyond. That will not be an unelectable care taker. In fact whoever said Blair is caretaker made a brilliant call.
The absolutely fascinating scenario, if we are playing this game, is the following:
a) Durham police issue the FPNs. b) Johnson presses GE button immediately he hears that news and just before his own defenestration. c) Lab NEC appoint interim leader pending a proper leadership election. d) Interim leader fronts GE campaign and wins a landslide. e) Let's imagine that interim leader is Blair.
f) Who does the Queen ask to form a Government?
Blair would not - presumably - be running as a parliamentary candidate, so I presume it would be whichever Labour MP could get a majority of MPs to support him.
Ive just realised the rules say NEC must appoint a member of Shadow Cabinet as interim leader if both leader and deputy curry eater go down.
Blair is out.
As is Harperson and Becket.
Looking like Ed M frankly.
Unless SKS has a reshuffle right before resigning to bring in whoever it needs to be.
For the huge numbers of tory members would would vote Patel given a vote next week based on Rwanda and bring back hanging for sheep stealers etc etc...
So if Boris goes it has to be Wallace or Javid then if the Tories want to see any electoral improvement.
Hunt, Truss, Raab, Gove, Sunak, Zahawi and Patel would all do worse than Boris is
You can’t know that from those numbers. How did Major poll before he announced a run for the leadership ?
Spot on. HY just ain’t listening. MoonRabbits Handbook on the Art of Political Maintenance Page 13 lesson one: you take the crown off someone’s head they instantly appear different and you now consider them in a different way. You place the crown on somebody else’s head, they instantly appear different and you now consider them in a different way.
As predicted by some on here, ok me, the “fiasco au stade de France” is impacting wider French politics
You really should have a word with the PBers who were blaming Liverpool fans on Saturday.
There obviously needs to be an impartial investigation, because there are likely lots lessons to be learned we can only speculate at this evening.
I have a few ideas though.
To start with, both this disaster and the one at Wembley are owned as Euafa events, but aspects if the management of them and the security is outsourced to other stakeholders, who in turn further outsource? Maybe Ueafa can be more actively involved themselves, with both a set of principles and a team to ensure all parties involved follow the Euafa principles.
For example.
Is it that much harder to forge eTickets than Paper ones? If so, I’m tempted to say one principle is eTicket admission only, no paper tickets. But I would need to be sure that is technically true. If fans say they don’t have smart phones, or even if they do, how much will it cost Euafa to gift each ticket holder a simple device with their clubs branding - a e-ticket device free with each ticket for example to beat the fraud?
Secondly, particularly the case at Wembley, too many fans with no tickets, also possibly fake tickets, far too close to the turnstiles and fencing at the match stadium, there should be a cordon further away for ticket checking to avoid pressure on turnstiles gates and fences. The dmz between ticket checking cordon and the ground is ideal space for any required security presence to sit and operate effectively.
Thirdly, in the case of Paris, Police had pre conceived expectations of fans that can lead to self fulfilling prophecy, my suggestion is use more stewarding and police from the cities or countries of the two teams playing.
The security of eTickets depends on the implantation. Properly done, with good crypto practices, orders of magnitude more secure than any paper ticket. Nothing really new - the concepts behind such systems are quite old, now.
The cost of cheap android phones is such that giving them away with tickets is perfectly possible.
A properly implanted e-ticket system could be designed so that verification would be quick and trivial, without impacting the security of the ticket. So that *anyone* with an app could verify the ticket is legit. Which would make an outer cordon to filter ticket holders from non ticket holders much easier.
Thank you Malmsy. 🥰
So MalmsyRabbitSecureTicketing.com is born. How do we register with Company House? And once we got the brochure printed we can contact Aleksander Čeferin and say, we are so bloody brilliant we can save your ass mate.
How do you prevent enterprising Parisians mugging fans for their phones, as happened the other night? All you've done is make sure the French villains get the tickets as well.
The Uvalde PD and Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Dept. of Public Safety's investigation into Robb Elementary School shooting, multiple law enforcement sources tell @ABC News. https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/1531746408000368648
Just realised something. The last election winner to be removed at the ballot box was John Major. Before that it was Ted Heath. That's once in 47 years.
Wilson and Attlee. 4 in nearly 80 years
Yep. And Wilson got two more goes. So I'm not entirely sure he counts the same.
True, yes. So defeated and gone are Attlee, Heath (after a 27 year sulk) and Major (to the Oval)
If we discount Churchill, Salisbury, Baldwin and Gladstone for the same reason as Wilson, then believe it or not the previous election winner sacked by the electorate who never returned to the premiership was Disraeli in 1880.
And before him it was Melbourne in 1841.
Wow. That's some stat. It is vanishingly rare. Being an "election winner" is actually far more of a booster for Big Dog than it at first appears.
Thinking outside the box now. If he did use an FPN on Starmer to call an election... The obvious Labour candidate is one ACL Blair. History is his friend here.
Hang on a sec. There would be an almighty constitutional crisis, thats for sure. HM Loyal Opposition is supposed to be ready to step into government at any time - especially during an election. Both the leader and deputy leader would have gone. I don't recall anything in the Labour Party constitution which covers this scenario in terms of who takes control who would be a viable LOTO and ready to become PM in a few weeks.
How then do we get to Blair? OK, there is no constitutional bar on a non-MP being a minister. But how and why do Labour select him as even an interim LOTO and candidate to lead a government?
OK, lets assume that Starmer and Rayner resign in the immediate aftermath of an election which Labour win. So the question is who does the Palace call to ask to form a government. Again, how do we get to Blair?
Presumably if SKS and Rayner quit, the NEC has to pick an interim leader (general election campaign or not)?
Yep. Labour Rule Book:
"When the Party is in opposition and the leader and deputy leader, for whatever reason, both become permanently unavailable, the NEC shall order a ballot as provided under E above. In consultation with the Shadow Cabinet they may choose to appoint a member of the Shadow Cabinet to serve as Party leader until the outcome of that ballot.
So much for that Johnson wheeze then. Within 24 hours Labour could be galvanised by a more exciting and electable leader than they were 24hrs earlier with a lot of public sympathy for their outgoing leadership doing the honourable thing.
Or they could pick someone far left and unelectable again, Streeting might be a net benefit for them most other alternatives are no better than Starmer if not worse.
In any case I think once he and Rayner have filled in their questionnaires they will avoid a fine
Wrong. We are talking about the Boris pressing the GE button, as save big dog squad blackmailing tonight, whilst 11 points behind in polls, and Starmer and Rayner both having to step down - NEC call for leadership election, and NEC and Shadow cabinet appoint leader and deputy for rest of General Election campaign and beyond. That will not be an unelectable care taker. In fact whoever said Blair is caretaker made a brilliant call.
The absolutely fascinating scenario, if we are playing this game, is the following:
a) Durham police issue the FPNs. b) Johnson presses GE button immediately he hears that news and just before his own defenestration. c) Lab NEC appoint interim leader pending a proper leadership election. d) Interim leader fronts GE campaign and wins a landslide. e) Let's imagine that interim leader is Blair.
f) Who does the Queen ask to form a Government?
Blair would not - presumably - be running as a parliamentary candidate, so I presume it would be whichever Labour MP could get a majority of MPs to support him.
Ive just realised the rules say NEC must appoint a member of Shadow Cabinet as interim leader if both leader and deputy curry eater go down.
Blair is out.
As is Harperson and Becket.
Looking like Ed M frankly.
I think its just in consultation with the shadow realm. However i think the answer to our problem is Starmer announces he will resign on conclusion of an election for leader. So HMQ summons Starmer who gets to serve for the shortest period of any PM ever. And if theres an issue, Rayner quits, deputy leadership battle commences, Starmer anniunces he'll quit once deputy in place then leader battle commences and Labour (who have somehow won an election amidst this nonsense) have 2 mayfly PMs on the bounce and become a joke government before even starting. Or they let Dog run riot for a month whilst they sort themsrlves out.
Messy
Or NEC appoint Starmer back as temp leader pending election for leader agreed by shad cab. Again, joke government from the start. Or Starmer acts as PM with the confidence of the house pending new labour leader but quits as Labour party leader and the NEC do an emergency rule change to accomodate. Labour look ridiculous whatever.
Unless the timing is incredibly unfortunate it might be better just to do a leadership election *really, really quickly*. We already vote online for such things and presumably the NEC can make the rules for the contest unilaterally.
The Uvalde PD and Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Dept. of Public Safety's investigation into Robb Elementary School shooting, multiple law enforcement sources tell @ABC News. https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/1531746408000368648
So fucked up.
Rule 1 of any bad organisation/institution - close ranks and protect yourself at the first sign of trouble.
For the huge numbers of tory members would would vote Patel given a vote next week based on Rwanda and bring back hanging for sheep stealers etc etc...
So if Boris goes it has to be Wallace or Javid then if the Tories want to see any electoral improvement.
Hunt, Truss, Raab, Gove, Sunak, Zahawi and Patel would all do worse than Boris is
You can’t know that from those numbers. How did Major poll before he announced a run for the leadership ?
Spot on. HY just ain’t listening. MoonRabbits Handbook on the Art of Political Maintenance Page 13 lesson one: you take the crown off someone’s head they instantly appear different and you now consider them in a different way. You place the crown on somebody else’s head, they instantly appear different and you now consider them in a different way.
For the huge numbers of tory members would would vote Patel given a vote next week based on Rwanda and bring back hanging for sheep stealers etc etc...
So if Boris goes it has to be Wallace or Javid then if the Tories want to see any electoral improvement.
Hunt, Truss, Raab, Gove, Sunak, Zahawi and Patel would all do worse than Boris is
You can’t know that from those numbers. How did Major poll before he announced a run for the leadership ?
Spot on. HY just ain’t listening. MoonRabbits Handbook on the Art of Political Maintenance Page 13 lesson one: you take the crown off someone’s head they instantly appear different and you now consider them in a different way. You place the crown on somebody else’s head, they instantly appear different and you now consider them in a different way.
Errr
Donald Trump?
In an alternative timeline Donald Trump got elected president then just hired a normal speechwriter to write presidential-sounding things for him to say and read out the lines they gave him, and just picked a few very occasional populist fights to keep the base happy. In this timeline he's still president.
For the huge numbers of tory members would would vote Patel given a vote next week based on Rwanda and bring back hanging for sheep stealers etc etc...
So if Boris goes it has to be Wallace or Javid then if the Tories want to see any electoral improvement.
Hunt, Truss, Raab, Gove, Sunak, Zahawi and Patel would all do worse than Boris is
You can’t know that from those numbers. How did Major poll before he announced a run for the leadership ?
A Major led Tories led Kinnock Labour in polls before he was elected PM
Comments
ETA navigate via tennis to the match, then press live stream.
ETA and if you press the pop-out icon in the bottom right, you can get a bigger picture.
I assume actually big dog would remain PM with team until labour vote in a leader on the understanding doing 'anything' would invoke a VONC. Hed get nothing through parliament anyway.
Blair is out.
As is Harperson and Becket.
Looking like Ed M frankly.
Narendra Modi's predecessor as BJP leader, Atal Behari Vajpayee, was PM for 16 days in 1996 (resigned due to lack of a majority), then came back from 1998 to 2004.
And if theres an issue, Rayner quits, deputy leadership battle commences, Starmer anniunces he'll quit once deputy in place then leader battle commences and Labour (who have somehow won an election amidst this nonsense) have 2 mayfly PMs on the bounce and become a joke government before even starting.
Or they let Dog run riot for a month whilst they sort themsrlves out.
Messy
And one (Taft) a Supreme Court justice.
It’s unusual, though. Carter has had a pretty good second act.
The cost of cheap android phones is such that giving them away with tickets is perfectly possible.
A properly implanted e-ticket system could be designed so that verification would be quick and trivial, without impacting the security of the ticket. So that *anyone* with an app could verify the ticket is legit. Which would make an outer cordon to filter ticket holders from non ticket holders much easier.
Or Starmer acts as PM with the confidence of the house pending new labour leader but quits as Labour party leader and the NEC do an emergency rule change to accomodate.
Labour look ridiculous whatever.
How did Major poll before he announced a run for the leadership ?
@ABC News.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/1531746408000368648
So MalmsyRabbitSecureTicketing.com is born. How do we register with Company House? And once we got the brochure printed we can contact Aleksander Čeferin and say, we are so bloody brilliant we can save your ass mate.
Donald Trump?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dKQnAE3y-aQ--tgHvKEdKg9jyG-zwEsilRqgEFNbCt8/edit#gid=0
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61648987
That will not help solve the shortfall in GPs discussed on yesterday's thread.