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Polls like this make a confidence vote more likely – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Scott_xP said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/20168222.dorset-mp-richard-drax-criticises-new-windfall-tax-announcement/

    The chap we were discussing the other day, the one with four surnames. He doesn't like this pandering to socialists from Mr Sunak.

    Some anger among Tory MPs about the windfall tax U-turn - mainly they are fed up with so many U-turns

    Tory MPs were whipped to vote against a windfall tax just a week ago

    One tells me they look “like prats”

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1529791073794592768
    Well, they are.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Problem is of course that it is a political issue. Trying to avoid discussion of any actions as it is 'too soon' is often itself a political action, and action then is the only option for those that want action, since it won't be returned to later.

    Crashing a press conference like that does have a high risk of coming across as a dick move though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Scott_xP said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/20168222.dorset-mp-richard-drax-criticises-new-windfall-tax-announcement/

    The chap we were discussing the other day, the one with four surnames. He doesn't like this pandering to socialists from Mr Sunak.

    Some anger among Tory MPs about the windfall tax U-turn - mainly they are fed up with so many U-turns

    Tory MPs were whipped to vote against a windfall tax just a week ago

    One tells me they look “like prats”

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1529791073794592768
    That report is bollocks. They aren't fed up with so many u-turns, the same thing gets reported every time they are asked to do this, yet they meekly await the next one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Gun control is a political issue.

    And there's a problem in the US. Many Republicans are concerned that any kind of regulation is the thin end of the wedge that ends with the repeal of the Second Amendment.
    Chance would be a fine thing.

    https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    pigeon said:

    They mustn't know whether they're coming or going anymore.

    Personally I'm surprised that the support package was quite so big as it has turned out to be. I was expecting the Government to bail out old people and leave everybody else to rot.

    There is an article tonight that says it will only buy a few months, and he will have to spend even more in the Autumn
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Paul Waugh
    @paulwaugh
    ·
    2h
    The public may well like the windfall tax U-turn, but several Tory MPs are unhappy.
    One ex-minister tells me Sunak has thrown away any lingering hope of winning support from the right of the Tory party for a leadership bid: “This is just throwing soil on the coffin.”

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1529896514759405576
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Problem is of course that it is a political issue. Trying to avoid discussion of any actions as it is 'too soon' is often itself a political action, and action then is the only option for those that want action, since it won't be returned to later.

    Crashing a press conference like that does have a high risk of coming across as a dick move though.
    Republican SOP, after every mass shooting, to call any attempt to do anything about guns “playing politics”.
    They deserve to be told to their faces that they are, by doing nothing, utterly complicit.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/20168222.dorset-mp-richard-drax-criticises-new-windfall-tax-announcement/

    The chap we were discussing the other day, the one with four surnames. He doesn't like this pandering to socialists from Mr Sunak.

    Some anger among Tory MPs about the windfall tax U-turn - mainly they are fed up with so many U-turns

    Tory MPs were whipped to vote against a windfall tax just a week ago

    One tells me they look “like prats”

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1529791073794592768
    Well, they are.
    It’s not new for them either. It happened over free school meals, it’s happened several times. They only have themselves to blame now.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This week’s New EUROPEAN: “Clown Nation” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1529913070176587776/photo/1


    That’s brutal cutting edge satire.
    I'm sure the five people who read The New European will approve,
    There are five people that read The New European???
    20,000 according to Wiki.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Though the Uvalde police don't sound up to much:

    https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1529897589306695680?t=THwk147jJpccKEP8z2Yy2g&s=19

    So... a mother in Uvalde was able to drive 40 miles, plead with police, get hand-cuffed, get uncuffed, jump the school fence, run inside and rescue her children while police sat around waiting for backup and listening to children get murdered.
    There's no fixing that.
    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Though the Uvalde police don't sound up to much:

    https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1529897589306695680?t=THwk147jJpccKEP8z2Yy2g&s=19

    So... a mother in Uvalde was able to drive 40 miles, plead with police, get hand-cuffed, get uncuffed, jump the school fence, run inside and rescue her children while police sat around waiting for backup and listening to children get murdered.
    There's no fixing that.
    That is very true - but it still doesn't take away from the absolute kn0bbery of Beto's actions.
  • Ally_B1Ally_B1 Posts: 49
    kle4 said:

    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    I feel I should have known this:

    If you arrange British coins this way you'll get a shield - It represents the Royal Coat of Arms! 🇬🇧


    https://twitter.com/histories_arch/status/1523817354509320192

    Only possible reason not to ditch the 1p and the 2p, so as not to mess up the shield. Both already pointless.

    Were people this resistant to getting rid of the ha'penny?
    Would anyone care to have a stab at what percentage of the population is so skint that the prospect of having all prices rounded up to the nearest 5p would cause further material damage to their finances?
    In which case there are no circumstances under which outdated coinage can be removed?
    Based on my experience of living in countries where there are now no coins less than a 5, the supermarkets still price items in odd pennies and the rounding is done at the till. However in other shops/restaurants their prices are generally shown in tens rather than fives, thus making the five redundant (and a difficult coin for a collector like me to get hold of in day to day transactions).
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This week’s New EUROPEAN: “Clown Nation” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1529913070176587776/photo/1


    That’s brutal cutting edge satire.
    I'm sure the five people who read The New European will approve,
    There are five people that read The New European???
    The New European's John Kampfner wrote this best-selling book about how Germany is wonderful and Britain is awful:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Germans-Do-Better-Grown-Up/dp/1786499789/

    I wonder if he is planning to revise it after the last three months.
    Bloke in Hatchard's in St Pancras International was trying to flog me that book, saying how wonderful it was and absolutely spot on. Glad I didn't take him up on his recommendation...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386


    Paul Waugh
    @paulwaugh
    ·
    2h
    The public may well like the windfall tax U-turn, but several Tory MPs are unhappy.
    One ex-minister tells me Sunak has thrown away any lingering hope of winning support from the right of the Tory party for a leadership bid: “This is just throwing soil on the coffin.”

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1529896514759405576

    Also, it isn't going to deal with the underlying problem - that our gas supplies are constricted and 30 years of complacency and underinvestment by multiple governments has left our utility networks unable to survive without them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This week’s New EUROPEAN: “Clown Nation” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1529913070176587776/photo/1


    That’s brutal cutting edge satire.
    I'm sure the five people who read The New European will approve,
    There are five people that read The New European???
    Oh sorry, did I misspell two?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This week’s New EUROPEAN: “Clown Nation” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1529913070176587776/photo/1


    That’s brutal cutting edge satire.
    I'm sure the five people who read The New European will approve,
    There are five people that read The New European???
    20,000 according to Wiki.
    I don't know for sure, but I'd guess 19,999 of them at least were against Brexit.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Problem is of course that it is a political issue. Trying to avoid discussion of any actions as it is 'too soon' is often itself a political action, and action then is the only option for those that want action, since it won't be returned to later.

    Crashing a press conference like that does have a high risk of coming across as a dick move though.
    It is a political issue but what a dick to crash it like that. He could have waited.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Though the Uvalde police don't sound up to much:

    https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1529897589306695680?t=THwk147jJpccKEP8z2Yy2g&s=19

    So... a mother in Uvalde was able to drive 40 miles, plead with police, get hand-cuffed, get uncuffed, jump the school fence, run inside and rescue her children while police sat around waiting for backup and listening to children get murdered.
    There's no fixing that.
    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Though the Uvalde police don't sound up to much:

    https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1529897589306695680?t=THwk147jJpccKEP8z2Yy2g&s=19

    So... a mother in Uvalde was able to drive 40 miles, plead with police, get hand-cuffed, get uncuffed, jump the school fence, run inside and rescue her children while police sat around waiting for backup and listening to children get murdered.
    There's no fixing that.
    That is very true - but it still doesn't take away from the absolute kn0bbery of Beto's actions.
    Sure.
    Pretty clear who are the kn0bs here:

    https://twitter.com/ddimick/status/1529651973233975306
    Beto O’Rourke impolitely pointing out to the gun-lobby-beholden plutocracy that thoughts and prayers don’t cut it. Photograph by
    @Reuters #photojournalism


    I can see why Republicans are troubled.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Scott_xP said:

    pigeon said:

    They mustn't know whether they're coming or going anymore.

    Personally I'm surprised that the support package was quite so big as it has turned out to be. I was expecting the Government to bail out old people and leave everybody else to rot.

    There is an article tonight that says it will only buy a few months, and he will have to spend even more in the Autumn
    In an obvious way that must be true as the pension and benefit system is uprated by September's inflation figure.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    Under FPTP your raw Party score isn't the most important metric.
    1997 Tories 31%. Labour majority of 179.
    2010 Labour 29%. Hung Parliament.
    I'm amazed you can't see that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Friday’s Daily TELEGRAPH: “Tories are now the party of big spending, says Sunak” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1529930376847757312/photo/1
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Scott_xP said:

    pigeon said:

    They mustn't know whether they're coming or going anymore.

    Personally I'm surprised that the support package was quite so big as it has turned out to be. I was expecting the Government to bail out old people and leave everybody else to rot.

    There is an article tonight that says it will only buy a few months, and he will have to spend even more in the Autumn
    Or next year. It would be entirely unsurprising: one-off payments like this are by definition only temporary fixes for temporary problems. Unless the current bout of inflation is followed by an equal and opposite bout of deflation (highly improbable, of course,) then the agony is only deferred until the point at which the bungs have been spent.

    After that, the Government has to decide who to let rot, who, if anyone, is deserving of hefty permanent increases in social security - and who is going to be taxed harder to pay for more benefits. That's the juncture at which a further wealth transfer from working people (including the many who are already struggling) to pensioners may occur.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Meanwhile, in the law and order party during Johnson's 'crime, crime, crime' week...


    Joe Locker
    @JoeLocker96
    #TomorrowsPapersToday

    Exactly three weeks to the day crime commissioner Caroline Henry appeared in court and admitted to 5 speeding offences, she launches a new board to hold Nottinghamshire Police to account.

    @AlexNorrisNN
    says it shows how untenable her position is.

    https://twitter.com/JoeLocker96/status/1529541414752854017
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    "The timing of the windfall tax U-turn, one day after the publication of the Sue Gray report, will only deepen the concern that this is a rudderless government that blows with the political wind" | 🗞 The Times view https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-rishi-sunaks-cost-of-living-support-big-spender-q6mjwx5vv?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1653598659
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    So it's a good number?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Excellent documentary on Netflix called 'The Staircase'. French documentary team with remarkable access to the trial and family of an author accused of murdering his wife.

    "Well, you've got a much better documentary now."

    I bought Petersen's book (no money goes to him). Not really about the trial, mostly a diary of how to survive prison. Very good. He did it, of course.
    I would say he did it but the the verdict was by no means certain. The jail time was hardly touched on in the documentary
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    Laurence Fox will have to pay more than £36,000 in legal fees to three people he referred to as 'paedophiles' on Twitter after losing his bid for a jury to hear their High Court libel battle.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    Laurence Fox will have to pay more than £36,000 in legal fees to three people he referred to as 'paedophiles' on Twitter after losing his bid for a jury to hear their High Court libel battle.

    Got off extremely lightly there.
    I wouldn't be happy with that if he'd called me that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    Scott_xP said:

    pigeon said:

    They mustn't know whether they're coming or going anymore.

    Personally I'm surprised that the support package was quite so big as it has turned out to be. I was expecting the Government to bail out old people and leave everybody else to rot.

    There is an article tonight that says it will only buy a few months, and he will have to spend even more in the Autumn
    In an obvious way that must be true as the pension and benefit system is uprated by September's inflation figure.

    Rishi affirmed the benefit uplift and triple lock rise for next April at September inflation rate

    This is a huge promise with some saying it will cost 25 billion
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    edited May 2022
    Sounds like Sue was perfect person to undertake the investigation as clearly got the experience to judge an illegal party when she sees one.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10856801/Partygate-Patrick-Kielty-tells-late-night-lock-ins-Sue-Grays-pub.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996

    Scott_xP said:

    pigeon said:

    They mustn't know whether they're coming or going anymore.

    Personally I'm surprised that the support package was quite so big as it has turned out to be. I was expecting the Government to bail out old people and leave everybody else to rot.

    There is an article tonight that says it will only buy a few months, and he will have to spend even more in the Autumn
    In an obvious way that must be true as the pension and benefit system is uprated by September's inflation figure.

    Rishi affirmed the benefit uplift and triple lock rise for next April at September inflation rate

    This is a huge promise with some saying it will cost 25 billion
    At this rate, we are going to be making handbags out of £5 notes as they will be so worthless.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    pigeon said:

    They mustn't know whether they're coming or going anymore.

    Personally I'm surprised that the support package was quite so big as it has turned out to be. I was expecting the Government to bail out old people and leave everybody else to rot.

    There is an article tonight that says it will only buy a few months, and he will have to spend even more in the Autumn
    In an obvious way that must be true as the pension and benefit system is uprated by September's inflation figure.

    Rishi affirmed the benefit uplift and triple lock rise for next April at September inflation rate

    This is a huge promise with some saying it will cost 25 billion
    No change on the UC taper rate. That's a real issue as an incentive to move into work.
    The marginal tax rates faced by unemployed UC claimants are eye watering.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Problem is of course that it is a political issue. Trying to avoid discussion of any actions as it is 'too soon' is often itself a political action, and action then is the only option for those that want action, since it won't be returned to later.

    Crashing a press conference like that does have a high risk of coming across as a dick move though.
    It is a political issue but what a dick to crash it like that. He could have waited.
    There have been 27 school shootings and 200 mass killings in America already this year.

    May I gently suggest that the problem is America has waited rather too long to confront this major problem, not that somebody crashed the podium to call out the acquiescence of the Governor in laws that enabled the murder of multiple children?
    I think he came over very well. About time someone stood up like he did. Someone took a classic picture (shown here earlier today) Expect to see on campaign literature. It made the guys on the stage look like angry rednecks being challenged by a sole individual.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    So it's a good number?
    I think @HYUFD is the only true Boris cheerleader on here
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    The NYT, scourge of Brexit no less, getting two barrels from the Kyiv Independent for its "veiled manifesto of appeasement".
    https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/editorial-the-kyiv-independents-response-to-the-new-york-times-editorial-board/
  • HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    LD figure is worrying for the Tories (given theor vote is likely to be even more efficiently concentrated in the South of England than in 1997). Don't get me wrong, the absolute maximum the LDs can get at the next election is probably about 35 MPs but the Tories are still in trouble.

    The Tories could be holding up relatively well in the West Midlands but doing pretty badly in Con-LD marginals in Somerset and the SE and Con-Lab marginals in North and South like 2010 in reverse.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    edited May 2022
    geoffw said:

    The NYT, scourge of Brexit no less, getting two barrels from the Kyiv Independent for its "veiled manifesto of appeasement".
    https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/editorial-the-kyiv-independents-response-to-the-new-york-times-editorial-board/

    "Neither a French president, a German intellectual, nor an award-winning American newspaper are exempt from being wrong."

    Spiky.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022
    I, for one, salute Comrade Rishi.
    So refreshing to have a genuinely Socialist Chancellor. First in my lifetime.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    dixiedean said:

    Laurence Fox will have to pay more than £36,000 in legal fees to three people he referred to as 'paedophiles' on Twitter after losing his bid for a jury to hear their High Court libel battle.

    Got off extremely lightly there.
    I wouldn't be happy with that if he'd called me that.
    Trials still to come. Just has to pay others costs for trying to wrangle for a Jury
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    dixiedean said:

    I, for one, salute Comrade Rishi.
    So refreshing to have a genuinely Socialist Chancellor. First in my lifetime.


    ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 2022
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    Under FPTP your raw Party score isn't the most important metric.
    1997 Tories 31%. Labour majority of 179.
    2010 Labour 29%. Hung Parliament.
    I'm amazed you can't see that.
    Labour still polling about 3% less than 1997 and after boundary changes still not getting a majority alone a landslide.

    Don't forget 1997 only happened after Major won a general election after more than 10 years of his party in power, the only PM in the last 100 years to do so.

    The odds were always Labour would win the next general election after the Tories 2019 win, however they are still far from sealing it
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996

    dixiedean said:

    Laurence Fox will have to pay more than £36,000 in legal fees to three people he referred to as 'paedophiles' on Twitter after losing his bid for a jury to hear their High Court libel battle.

    Got off extremely lightly there.
    I wouldn't be happy with that if he'd called me that.
    Trials still to come. Just has to pay others costs for trying to wrangle for a Jury
    Getting expensive...

    The actor's legal costs for making the unsuccessful bid came to £116,314.55, according to court documents.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Scott_xP said:

    Friday’s Daily TELEGRAPH: “Tories are now the party of big spending, says Sunak” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1529930376847757312/photo/1

    The alternative was civil disorder as Martin Lewis has been saying. That may still happen if inflation, particularly food thanks to Mad Vlad, continues to surge.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Today I became a statistic. I have joined an NHS waiting list. Eighteen months in my case for a cataract operation.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    dixiedean said:

    Laurence Fox will have to pay more than £36,000 in legal fees to three people he referred to as 'paedophiles' on Twitter after losing his bid for a jury to hear their High Court libel battle.

    Got off extremely lightly there.
    I wouldn't be happy with that if he'd called me that.
    Trials still to come. Just has to pay others costs for trying to wrangle for a Jury
    OK. He deserves to be bankrupted. Pour encourager les autres.
    Fair comment and criticism is fine.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    Interesting to see how much polls narrow in next fortnight due to todays package and Jubilee

    If they dont narrow Tories in big trouble
    If you are lucky Starmer gets his inevitable FPN, resigns in ignominious disgrace and Sunak's whopping give away gains traction. Before you know it, newly innocent Johnson is 9 points ahead of Streeting/Nandy.

    It's a good Corbynista package nonetheless. I always knew Sunak was a Trojan Horse Socialist.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    In Australia it still isn't clear whether Labor will win 75 or 76 seats with 76 needed for a majority.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal-election-2022/

    Nearly 25% of the vote has still to be counted.

    https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2022/Results/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    How much money are the lawyers making out of the Wagatha-Christie legal action?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Roger said:

    carnforth said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Excellent documentary on Netflix called 'The Staircase'. French documentary team with remarkable access to the trial and family of an author accused of murdering his wife.

    "Well, you've got a much better documentary now."

    I bought Petersen's book (no money goes to him). Not really about the trial, mostly a diary of how to survive prison. Very good. He did it, of course.
    I would say he did it but the the verdict was by no means certain. The jail time was hardly touched on in the documentary
    The prosecution (foolishly?) only brought a single count: first degree (premeditated) murder. This required their narrative, that there was a struggle at the top of the stairs that involved her ending up at the bottom, that she did not die, and was then beaten at the bottom of the stairs when he realised she was still alive, to be believed in its entirety.

    By "it", I merely mean that he was involved in the altercation that killed her. Perhaps the element of premeditation was not there.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Friday’s TIMES: “Tories split on tax and spending bonanza” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1529936580110172160/photo/1
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    How much money are the lawyers making out of the Wagatha-Christie legal action?

    Let's put it this way: they wont be too fussed about their energy bills.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    The Süddeutsche Zeitung has published this cartoon of Zelensky...

    image
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This week’s New EUROPEAN: “Clown Nation” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1529913070176587776/photo/1


    That’s brutal cutting edge satire.
    I'm sure the five people who read The New European will approve,
    There are five people that read The New European???
    20,000 according to Wiki.
    That's "distribution" - i.e. 20,000 copies of the New European are printed and distributed.

    But many of those will end up in lawyers and accountants waiting rooms, collecting dust.

    Active, actual, readership will - I suspect - be in the low thousands.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    geoffw said:

    The NYT, scourge of Brexit no less, getting two barrels from the Kyiv Independent for its "veiled manifesto of appeasement".
    https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/editorial-the-kyiv-independents-response-to-the-new-york-times-editorial-board/

    "Neither a French president, a German intellectual, nor an award-winning American newspaper are exempt from being wrong."

    Spiky.
    The U.S. must understand the futility and stop “taunting” Russia, the editorial says. Meaning: Ukraine will lose anyway, stop helping it so it’s over faster.

    A common view, presented as realism, which would not be entirely unreasonable were it not usually presented without consideration of whether Ukraine might prefer some losses more than others.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    Under FPTP your raw Party score isn't the most important metric.
    1997 Tories 31%. Labour majority of 179.
    2010 Labour 29%. Hung Parliament.
    I'm amazed you can't see that.
    Labour still polling about 3% less than 1997 and after boundary changes still not getting a majority alone a landslide.

    Don't forget 1997 only happened after Major won a general election after more than 10 years of his party in power, the only PM in the last 100 years to do so.

    The odds were always Labour would win the next general election after the Tories 2019 win, however they are still far from sealing it
    Since when were Labour favourites to win the next GE?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    geoffw said:

    Today I became a statistic. I have joined an NHS waiting list. Eighteen months in my case for a cataract operation.

    Have you an option to go private?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Laurence Fox will have to pay more than £36,000 in legal fees to three people he referred to as 'paedophiles' on Twitter after losing his bid for a jury to hear their High Court libel battle.

    Libeling people on Twitter is really dumb.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    geoffw said:

    Today I became a statistic. I have joined an NHS waiting list. Eighteen months in my case for a cataract operation.

    Postcode lottery. My Mam was diagnosed in February and had it three weeks ago.
    Sympathies.
    The state of the NHS is the only political talk I hear from my oldie friends.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited May 2022
    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Problem is of course that it is a political issue. Trying to avoid discussion of any actions as it is 'too soon' is often itself a political action, and action then is the only option for those that want action, since it won't be returned to later.

    Crashing a press conference like that does have a high risk of coming across as a dick move though.
    It is a political issue but what a dick to crash it like that. He could have waited.
    There have been 27 school shootings and 200 mass killings in America already this year.

    May I gently suggest that the problem is America has waited rather too long to confront this major problem, not that somebody crashed the podium to call out the acquiescence of the Governor in laws that enabled the murder of multiple children?
    O'Rourke has little chance of winning his election anyway presumably. He may upset and aggravate some people by not being polite about it, but politically (let alone any other consideration) he might as well go very strong on all issues. It's not really an area where a nuanced position seems likely to win over any floaters, so lose, but lose honestly I guess.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    Under FPTP your raw Party score isn't the most important metric.
    1997 Tories 31%. Labour majority of 179.
    2010 Labour 29%. Hung Parliament.
    I'm amazed you can't see that.
    Labour still polling about 3% less than 1997 and after boundary changes still not getting a majority alone a landslide.

    Don't forget 1997 only happened after Major won a general election after more than 10 years of his party in power, the only PM in the last 100 years to do so.

    The odds were always Labour would win the next general election after the Tories 2019 win, however they are still far from sealing it
    Since when were Labour favourites to win the next GE?
    Since the day after the Tories won a 4th consecutive general election in 2019 on historical precedence
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    The NYT, scourge of Brexit no less, getting two barrels from the Kyiv Independent for its "veiled manifesto of appeasement".
    https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/editorial-the-kyiv-independents-response-to-the-new-york-times-editorial-board/

    "Neither a French president, a German intellectual, nor an award-winning American newspaper are exempt from being wrong."

    Spiky.
    The U.S. must understand the futility and stop “taunting” Russia, the editorial says. Meaning: Ukraine will lose anyway, stop helping it so it’s over faster.

    A common view, presented as realism, which would not be entirely unreasonable were it not usually presented without consideration of whether Ukraine might prefer some losses more than others.
    And also not necessarily reflecting the military reality. As the editorial says, Ukraine has driven Russia out of more than 40% of the land the latter occupied since the start of the conflict. The US is now openly saying that Russia has lost nearly 1,000 tanks, which would be considerably higher than Oryx's numbers and, if extrapolated, would suggest the Russians have lost c. 5K vehicles. And Ukraine is training up more troops, receiving more equipment etc while Russia's military capabilities continue to degrade.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    In Australia it still isn't clear whether Labor will win 75 or 76 seats with 76 needed for a majority.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal-election-2022/

    Nearly 25% of the vote has still to be counted.

    https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2022/Results/

    Either way the 3 Green MPs will back Labor so they pass the 76 threshold needed for government
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    rcs1000 said:

    Laurence Fox will have to pay more than £36,000 in legal fees to three people he referred to as 'paedophiles' on Twitter after losing his bid for a jury to hear their High Court libel battle.

    Libeling people on Twitter is really dumb.
    Fixed for you....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Laurence Fox will have to pay more than £36,000 in legal fees to three people he referred to as 'paedophiles' on Twitter after losing his bid for a jury to hear their High Court libel battle.

    And everyone says the news these days is always bad!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    edited May 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    The 3% ref figure may be voters who can’t bear to be supporting Boris shambolic government a day longer so fled right rather than centre - and you’ve just marked them down as a yes?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    The Mail seem... Conflicted...

    Friday's Mail: Rishi's £21bn Splurge #TomorrowsPapersToday #DailyMail #Mail

    https://t.co/e2BNFCMK9A

    The next challenges are going to be Public Sector pay (good luck keeping rises to 1-2%) and tax thresholds (again, good luck keeping them frozen, though the stealth windfall for the government must help the sums work out. If they should go up by £1000 and aren't, that's £200 per taxpayer, £400 for a working couple and where have I seen £400 splashed about today?)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    In Australia it still isn't clear whether Labor will win 75 or 76 seats with 76 needed for a majority.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal-election-2022/

    Nearly 25% of the vote has still to be counted.

    https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2022/Results/

    Either way the 3 Green MPs will back Labor so they pass the 76 threshold needed for government
    True, but parties do like to be able to claim an actual majority, psychologically. Cameron winning the first majority for the party was probably celebrated more than being the first PM for the party in a long time.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    Under FPTP your raw Party score isn't the most important metric.
    1997 Tories 31%. Labour majority of 179.
    2010 Labour 29%. Hung Parliament.
    I'm amazed you can't see that.
    Labour still polling about 3% less than 1997 and after boundary changes still not getting a majority alone a landslide.

    Don't forget 1997 only happened after Major won a general election after more than 10 years of his party in power, the only PM in the last 100 years to do so.

    The odds were always Labour would win the next general election after the Tories 2019 win, however they are still far from sealing it
    Since when were Labour favourites to win the next GE?
    Since the day after the Tories won a 4th consecutive general election in 2019 on historical precedence
    That isn't how it works.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Saddened to hear the news about Andy Fletcher of Depeche Mode.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    geoffw said:

    Today I became a statistic. I have joined an NHS waiting list. Eighteen months in my case for a cataract operation.

    Have you an option to go private?
    Dunno, not complaining. Just bemused. You hear so much about waiting lists that it became a bit like joining an anonymous club.

  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Serious point: if Labour win the next election they won't be able to increase public expenditure. We are fast approaching the outer limits of a manageable deficit. Run on pound, inflation, credit downgrading if a typical labour manifesto is added to Tory largesse.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Gun control is a political issue.

    And there's a problem in the US. Many Republicans are concerned that any kind of regulation is the thin end of the wedge that ends with the repeal of the Second Amendment. That's understandable.

    But it also leads to a situation where even the most modest of proposals is blocked.
    It's not understandable. It is the same delusional paranoia that had 17th Century New England convinced the British government was, at any moment, going to rejoin with the Papacy are enforce Catholicism as the state religion.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited May 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    In Australia it still isn't clear whether Labor will win 75 or 76 seats with 76 needed for a majority.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal-election-2022/

    Nearly 25% of the vote has still to be counted.

    https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2022/Results/

    Either way the 3 Green MPs will back Labor so they pass the 76 threshold needed for government
    The Australian Labor Party has never been particularly left-wing so having to rely on the Greens could have a significant effect on the type of administration it is. [For instance I was reading an article today that argued the Australian Labor Party was the first major Western party to embrace neo-liberalism in the 1980s under Bob Hawke].
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    Under FPTP your raw Party score isn't the most important metric.
    1997 Tories 31%. Labour majority of 179.
    2010 Labour 29%. Hung Parliament.
    I'm amazed you can't see that.
    Labour still polling about 3% less than 1997 and after boundary changes still not getting a majority alone a landslide.

    Don't forget 1997 only happened after Major won a general election after more than 10 years of his party in power, the only PM in the last 100 years to do so.

    The odds were always Labour would win the next general election after the Tories 2019 win, however they are still far from sealing it
    Since when were Labour favourites to win the next GE?
    Since the day after the Tories won a 4th consecutive general election in 2019 on historical precedence
    That isn't how it works.
    It is, no governing party has won a 5th consecutive general election since universal suffrage in 1918
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    edited May 2022

    Serious point: if Labour win the next election they won't be able to increase public expenditure. We are fast approaching the outer limits of a manageable deficit. Run on pound, inflation, credit downgrading if a typical labour manifesto is added to Tory largesse.

    Wealth tax, higher income tax, 300% council tax on second homes, etc etc etc....
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    So it's a good number?
    I think @HYUFD is the only true Boris cheerleader on here
    But Boris is rubbish, why does he have any supporters left? That yesterday was incredible “I’ve not come to offer excuses, tell more lies or filibuster very good questions you still have, but to add some context” THE OPENING LINE ITSELF WAS A LIE! 🤦‍♀️

    If the Tories went off for a few summer months leadership contest, turned a page on this Boris disaster and refound themselves, 100% certain to finish this year in a much better place.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Today I became a statistic. I have joined an NHS waiting list. Eighteen months in my case for a cataract operation.

    Have you an option to go private?
    Dunno, not complaining. Just bemused. You hear so much about waiting lists that it became a bit like joining an anonymous club.

    It will vary from place to place. My dad has had both done in the last 6 months, private. As he said at 82 you value the time left rather than the money...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    Saddened to hear the news about Andy Fletcher of Depeche Mode.

    In a bizarre twist, today's Heardle was Personal Jesus.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    Under FPTP your raw Party score isn't the most important metric.
    1997 Tories 31%. Labour majority of 179.
    2010 Labour 29%. Hung Parliament.
    I'm amazed you can't see that.
    Labour still polling about 3% less than 1997 and after boundary changes still not getting a majority alone a landslide.

    Don't forget 1997 only happened after Major won a general election after more than 10 years of his party in power, the only PM in the last 100 years to do so.

    The odds were always Labour would win the next general election after the Tories 2019 win, however they are still far from sealing it
    Since when were Labour favourites to win the next GE?
    Since the day after the Tories won a 4th consecutive general election in 2019 on historical precedence
    That isn't how it works.
    It is, no governing party has won a 5th consecutive general election since universal suffrage in 1918
    But if Labour put up Corbyn on his raft of the Medusa every time it would be a doddle to win 7 or 8
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Serious point: if Labour win the next election they won't be able to increase public expenditure. We are fast approaching the outer limits of a manageable deficit. Run on pound, inflation, credit downgrading if a typical labour manifesto is added to Tory largesse.

    Wealth tax, higher income tax, etc etc etc....
    Won't work. Higher income tax is already likely to be needed with Tory expenditure plans. Laferr curve says hello.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Gun control is a political issue.

    And there's a problem in the US. Many Republicans are concerned that any kind of regulation is the thin end of the wedge that ends with the repeal of the Second Amendment. That's understandable.

    But it also leads to a situation where even the most modest of proposals is blocked.
    It's not understandable. It is the same delusional paranoia that had 17th Century New England convinced the British government was, at any moment, going to rejoin with the Papacy are enforce Catholicism as the state religion.
    17th century? There is one person on PB who argued this year something rather like that, in justification for keeping the C of E as the privileged State Church (as if England was a state, but never mind).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996

    Serious point: if Labour win the next election they won't be able to increase public expenditure. We are fast approaching the outer limits of a manageable deficit. Run on pound, inflation, credit downgrading if a typical labour manifesto is added to Tory largesse.

    Wealth tax, higher income tax, etc etc etc....
    Won't work. Higher income tax is already likely to be needed with Tory expenditure plans. Laferr curve says hello.
    I am sure Labour will give it a good go.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    The ALP are almost certain to have a majority in Australia.
    Like 99% +.
    Bet against it if you like.
    Good luck.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    edited May 2022
    Helen Whately, who has her fair share of car crash interviews, doing ok on Newsnight. She is a Treasury minister these days.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Today I became a statistic. I have joined an NHS waiting list. Eighteen months in my case for a cataract operation.

    Have you an option to go private?
    Dunno, not complaining. Just bemused. You hear so much about waiting lists that it became a bit like joining an anonymous club.

    It will vary from place to place. My dad has had both done in the last 6 months, private. As he said at 82 you value the time left rather than the money...
    If it gets worse I'll look into that option.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Problem is of course that it is a political issue. Trying to avoid discussion of any actions as it is 'too soon' is often itself a political action, and action then is the only option for those that want action, since it won't be returned to later.

    Crashing a press conference like that does have a high risk of coming across as a dick move though.
    It is a political issue but what a dick to crash it like that. He could have waited.
    How tactless of him to get upset about children being murdered en masse. So unseemly.
    What I personally find more unseemly is that Abbot will still win, because a majority of Texans prize their guns more than their children.
    Not to mention, also more than their teachers. Very selfless of you not to mention that. So I thought I'd do it for you.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Serious point: if Labour win the next election they won't be able to increase public expenditure. We are fast approaching the outer limits of a manageable deficit. Run on pound, inflation, credit downgrading if a typical labour manifesto is added to Tory largesse.

    Wealth tax, higher income tax, etc etc etc....
    Won't work. Higher income tax is already likely to be needed with Tory expenditure plans. Laferr curve says hello.
    I am sure Labour will give it a good go.
    Unfortunately you are probably right. Weimar republic says hello.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Gun control is a political issue.

    And there's a problem in the US. Many Republicans are concerned that any kind of regulation is the thin end of the wedge that ends with the repeal of the Second Amendment. That's understandable.

    But it also leads to a situation where even the most modest of proposals is blocked.
    It's not understandable. It is the same delusional paranoia that had 17th Century New England convinced the British government was, at any moment, going to rejoin with the Papacy are enforce Catholicism as the state religion.
    TBF with Charles II and James VII and II that's not entirely surprising.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    If we are headed into a recession with demand aggregation collapsing as every one draws in their spending, then giving £400 to everyone who buys electricity will not sound so bonkers.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So even after the Gray report Labour fails to post a lead of 10% or more and the poll was taken before the extra funds announced to help households with energy bills today

    Wasn't 31% the circa 1997 Con number? Remind me, was that a good number?
    RefUK still polling 3%, most of that will go back to the Conservatives and in some final polls like Mori the Tories polled under 31% in 1997.

    Blair was up to 20 points ahead in many pre 1997 polls eg Gallup, not just 9 points ahead even after a dreadful few days for the PM and party. I expect the extra funds for households to help with energy bills announced after this poll will also make a difference.

    At the 2010 general election Labour only got 29% 13 years into government, the Tories are now already 12 years into government
    Under FPTP your raw Party score isn't the most important metric.
    1997 Tories 31%. Labour majority of 179.
    2010 Labour 29%. Hung Parliament.
    I'm amazed you can't see that.
    Labour still polling about 3% less than 1997 and after boundary changes still not getting a majority alone a landslide.

    Don't forget 1997 only happened after Major won a general election after more than 10 years of his party in power, the only PM in the last 100 years to do so.

    The odds were always Labour would win the next general election after the Tories 2019 win, however they are still far from sealing it
    Since when were Labour favourites to win the next GE?
    Since the day after the Tories won a 4th consecutive general election in 2019 on historical precedence
    That isn't how it works.
    It is, no governing party has won a 5th consecutive general election since universal suffrage in 1918
    To be pedantic, we didn't have universal suffrage in 1918.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    The NYT, scourge of Brexit no less, getting two barrels from the Kyiv Independent for its "veiled manifesto of appeasement".
    https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/editorial-the-kyiv-independents-response-to-the-new-york-times-editorial-board/

    "Neither a French president, a German intellectual, nor an award-winning American newspaper are exempt from being wrong."

    Spiky.
    The U.S. must understand the futility and stop “taunting” Russia, the editorial says. Meaning: Ukraine will lose anyway, stop helping it so it’s over faster.

    A common view, presented as realism, which would not be entirely unreasonable were it not usually presented without consideration of whether Ukraine might prefer some losses more than others.
    And also not necessarily reflecting the military reality. As the editorial says, Ukraine has driven Russia out of more than 40% of the land the latter occupied since the start of the conflict. The US is now openly saying that Russia has lost nearly 1,000 tanks, which would be considerably higher than Oryx's numbers and, if extrapolated, would suggest the Russians have lost c. 5K vehicles. And Ukraine is training up more troops, receiving more equipment etc while Russia's military capabilities continue to degrade.
    The Oryx figures are (allowing for a small number of photo misidentifications) an absolute minimum, so the US estimate’s probably correct.

    The next argument is likely to be over the Italian support for Putin’s latest gambit offering to ‘allow’ grain exports if sanctions are lifted.

    https://twitter.com/olgatokariuk/status/1529915762109992964
    Yet again, the same pattern is repeated. Russia creates a problem and then generously offers to solve it. Some naive people call it de-escalation.
    Remarkable that Putin told it to Draghi.Italy might face waves of migrants via Mediterranean if there's hunger in Africa, Middle East
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    The NYT, scourge of Brexit no less, getting two barrels from the Kyiv Independent for its "veiled manifesto of appeasement".
    https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/editorial-the-kyiv-independents-response-to-the-new-york-times-editorial-board/

    "Neither a French president, a German intellectual, nor an award-winning American newspaper are exempt from being wrong."

    Spiky.
    The U.S. must understand the futility and stop “taunting” Russia, the editorial says. Meaning: Ukraine will lose anyway, stop helping it so it’s over faster.

    A common view, presented as realism, which would not be entirely unreasonable were it not usually presented without consideration of whether Ukraine might prefer some losses more than others.
    And also not necessarily reflecting the military reality. As the editorial says, Ukraine has driven Russia out of more than 40% of the land the latter occupied since the start of the conflict. The US is now openly saying that Russia has lost nearly 1,000 tanks, which would be considerably higher than Oryx's numbers and, if extrapolated, would suggest the Russians have lost c. 5K vehicles. And Ukraine is training up more troops, receiving more equipment etc while Russia's military capabilities continue to degrade.
    It does sound pretty touch and go in the Donbas though. Finally the Russians have put together a competent attack, and that is worrying. The question is for how long can they sustain it?

    For all the NATO promises, artillery is the king of the battlefield in a stationary war, and numbers there favour Russia.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    If we are headed into a recession with demand aggregation collapsing as every one draws in their spending, then giving £400 to everyone who buys electricity will not sound so bonkers.

    It's normally expressed as 'aggregate demand', but your coinage is more dynamic.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Oh dear, looks like Beto has made an ass of himself at the Uvalde shooting press conference. What an absolute kn0b.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/05/25/texas_mayor_to_beto_orourke_youre_a_sick_son_of_a_bitch_to_make_school_shooting_a_political_issue.html

    Gun control is a political issue.

    And there's a problem in the US. Many Republicans are concerned that any kind of regulation is the thin end of the wedge that ends with the repeal of the Second Amendment. That's understandable.

    But it also leads to a situation where even the most modest of proposals is blocked.
    It's not understandable. It is the same delusional paranoia that had 17th Century New England convinced the British government was, at any moment, going to rejoin with the Papacy are enforce Catholicism as the state religion.
    17th century? There is one person on PB who argued this year something rather like that, in justification for keeping the C of E as the privileged State Church (as if England was a state, but never mind).
    Well that was why it was created in the first place, to replace the Pope as head of the English Church on earth with the English monarch
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Serious point: if Labour win the next election they won't be able to increase public expenditure. We are fast approaching the outer limits of a manageable deficit. Run on pound, inflation, credit downgrading if a typical labour manifesto is added to Tory largesse.

    Wealth tax, higher income tax, etc etc etc....
    Won't work. Higher income tax is already likely to be needed with Tory expenditure plans. Laferr curve says hello.
    I am sure Labour will give it a good go.
    Unfortunately you are probably right. Weimar republic says hello.
    Eh? We are not remotely the Weimar republic. Jeez...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    If we are headed into a recession with demand aggregation collapsing as every one draws in their spending, then giving £400 to everyone who buys electricity will not sound so bonkers.

    Yep.
    It's Keynesianism.
    Not the worst idea right now.
This discussion has been closed.