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Rishi/BoJo U-Turn on a windfall tax – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    Are payg meters online? What about meters like in my flat that still take coins? Landlord pays the bill when it comes in and collects from the meter.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited May 2022
    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Interesting question, to which I honestly have no idea. Someone should Tweet at Martin Lewis, who’s currently doing an online Q&A with Sunak.
    I'm watching the live feed. Sunak has an impressive grasp of detail.
    It is made even more striking when you think about a Boris press conference / announcement...where he has zero grasp of detail.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclists seem uniquely aggressive in the UK. I suspect it’s because we’re not a very bicycle-friendly nation (as polls show) so cyclists feel they have to fight for the right to be on the road. This creates a vicious, er, cycle - where others perceive them as aggressive so the tension worsens

    I’ve nearly been run over by several in Regent’s Park - whizzing through red lights at speed - not giving a fuck - even though multiple kids cross ti get into the park. Wankers

    Other countries don’t seem to have this pestilence of super-charged twats going as fast as they can within city centres

    As a recent convert to cycle commuting I think that one issue is that it still feels fairly unsafe cycling on the road, and this discourages more risk averse or less confident cyclists from using the roads. This means that a high proportion of cyclists are aggressive risk taking types, and their behaviour then sets the norm. So for instance, generally speaking I don't cycle through red lights, but I do sometimes eg when there are no other road users or pedestrians crossing, especially if it's just a left turn. If everyone else is doing it too you feel a bit stupid waiting there, it is much easier and often safer just to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.
    My general philosophy of road usage as a cyclist and a driver is to pay most attention to those more vulnerable than you. For a cyclist that means pedestrians, and for a motorist that means cyclists.
    Would you go through that red light in your car, if there was no-one around? How’s about if your bike had a number plate?
    About 20 years ago, the City of London police did a crackdown on people jumping red lights. They pulled people over, and then got points put on the cyclists' driving licenses for their transgressions.

    Which, by the way, is a good idea for the most egregious rule breakers.

    However it did cause problems. My then boss was pulled over for running a red light, and they demanded his driving license. "I don't have one", he said. And they refused to believe him. They - stupidly - decided to escalate this, taking him down the station on the assumption that he was lying (he wasn't.)
    Yes, people dont realise they can have their driving licence endorsed, if they have one, for offences committed on a vehicle for which a licence isn’t required.

    There have been a few “drunk in charge of a horse” or “drunk in charge of an electric scooter” procecutions, where people who had sensibly left their car at the pub ended up banned from driving as a result. I’m not sure that’s particularly a good thing, where maybe a fine should be more appropriate.
    I knew a guy who fell off his bike pissed on a roundabout outside a cop shop late one night. The great tool.
    How much had you he been drinking?
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,573
    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594
    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Harvard Psycology Professor Steven Pinker’s book ‘Rationality’, came up with the statistic that more Americans die every year in plane crashes, than in car crashes - if all you do is watch is the national news networks and count the deaths. A significant number surveyed by pollsters agree.

    The reality is a difference of two orders of magnitude, and three orders of magnitude if you ignore recreational aviation. More than 100 people die in car crashes, every day in the US.
    Almost as many Americans died in car crashes in each year during the Vietnam War than died in the entire Vietnam War.
    There are an extraordinary number of road deaths in the US every year - more than 40,000 last year. That's the equivalent of a small parliamentary constituency dying on the roads every year.
    More carnage than from guns?
    Pun intended.

    Road accidents have always been a high risk factor for the US *Army* itself - an appreciable proportion of casualties even in active war.
    Same in HMF. It used to be (during Op Banner) that more soldiers died in road accidents than on active service. Including a good friend of mine.
    Similarly aid workers in Africa. That and light aviation.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    TOPPING said:

    On topic that's a great LibDem message. Did 300 Cons MPs really vote against a windfall tax last week?!

    Not exactly - they voted against a Labour amendment to the Queen's Speech.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclists seem uniquely aggressive in the UK. I suspect it’s because we’re not a very bicycle-friendly nation (as polls show) so cyclists feel they have to fight for the right to be on the road. This creates a vicious, er, cycle - where others perceive them as aggressive so the tension worsens

    I’ve nearly been run over by several in Regent’s Park - whizzing through red lights at speed - not giving a fuck - even though multiple kids cross ti get into the park. Wankers

    Other countries don’t seem to have this pestilence of super-charged twats going as fast as they can within city centres

    As a recent convert to cycle commuting I think that one issue is that it still feels fairly unsafe cycling on the road, and this discourages more risk averse or less confident cyclists from using the roads. This means that a high proportion of cyclists are aggressive risk taking types, and their behaviour then sets the norm. So for instance, generally speaking I don't cycle through red lights, but I do sometimes eg when there are no other road users or pedestrians crossing, especially if it's just a left turn. If everyone else is doing it too you feel a bit stupid waiting there, it is much easier and often safer just to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.
    My general philosophy of road usage as a cyclist and a driver is to pay most attention to those more vulnerable than you. For a cyclist that means pedestrians, and for a motorist that means cyclists.
    Would you go through that red light in your car, if there was no-one around? How’s about if your bike had a number plate?
    About 20 years ago, the City of London police did a crackdown on people jumping red lights. They pulled people over, and then got points put on the cyclists' driving licenses for their transgressions.

    Which, by the way, is a good idea for the most egregious rule breakers.

    However it did cause problems. My then boss was pulled over for running a red light, and they demanded his driving license. "I don't have one", he said. And they refused to believe him. They - stupidly - decided to escalate this, taking him down the station on the assumption that he was lying (he wasn't.)
    Waiting for the punch line......
    There wasn't really a punchline. The police grudgingly accepted that he didn't have a driving license, but only after he'd spent a couple of hours at the station. He was very indignant and wrote letters to the police, his MP, etc., and I don't think anything happened.

    But I kind of get where the police were coming from: a well off 35 year old American bloke in London is 99% likely to have a driving license. And the police didn't want people pulling a Huhne and saying "sorry, I don't have a license". But they massively overreacted to his denials. Taking his name and number and verifying it later would have been much more sensible. (Although, I guess, still vulnerable to people lying to the police.)
    Should the police discriminate based on what someone look like, talks like, and the area in which the office was committed?
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    Applicant said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    BBC personal finance correspondent has just said that those on prepayment or pay as you go meters will receive either a credit for £400 or a voucher
    Makes sense. A direct credit to the meter for smart PAYG and a voucher to take to the usual top up point for conventional.
    And how do they know about me? I am not registered with a supplier. I dont have a smart meter....I shove in pound or two pound coins. Short answer is they don't know I even exist.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    Some questions about efficacy, but points for effort…
    https://twitter.com/KampfmitKette/status/1529804158009737217
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,930
    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclists seem uniquely aggressive in the UK. I suspect it’s because we’re not a very bicycle-friendly nation (as polls show) so cyclists feel they have to fight for the right to be on the road. This creates a vicious, er, cycle - where others perceive them as aggressive so the tension worsens

    I’ve nearly been run over by several in Regent’s Park - whizzing through red lights at speed - not giving a fuck - even though multiple kids cross ti get into the park. Wankers

    Other countries don’t seem to have this pestilence of super-charged twats going as fast as they can within city centres

    As a recent convert to cycle commuting I think that one issue is that it still feels fairly unsafe cycling on the road, and this discourages more risk averse or less confident cyclists from using the roads. This means that a high proportion of cyclists are aggressive risk taking types, and their behaviour then sets the norm. So for instance, generally speaking I don't cycle through red lights, but I do sometimes eg when there are no other road users or pedestrians crossing, especially if it's just a left turn. If everyone else is doing it too you feel a bit stupid waiting there, it is much easier and often safer just to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.
    My general philosophy of road usage as a cyclist and a driver is to pay most attention to those more vulnerable than you. For a cyclist that means pedestrians, and for a motorist that means cyclists.
    Would you go through that red light in your car, if there was no-one around? How’s about if your bike had a number plate?
    About 20 years ago, the City of London police did a crackdown on people jumping red lights. They pulled people over, and then got points put on the cyclists' driving licenses for their transgressions.

    Which, by the way, is a good idea for the most egregious rule breakers.

    However it did cause problems. My then boss was pulled over for running a red light, and they demanded his driving license. "I don't have one", he said. And they refused to believe him. They - stupidly - decided to escalate this, taking him down the station on the assumption that he was lying (he wasn't.)
    Yes, people dont realise they can have their driving licence endorsed, if they have one, for offences committed on a vehicle for which a licence isn’t required.

    There have been a few “drunk in charge of a horse” or “drunk in charge of an electric scooter” procecutions, where people who had sensibly left their car at the pub ended up banned from driving as a result. I’m not sure that’s particularly a good thing, where maybe a fine should be more appropriate.
    I knew a guy who fell off his bike pissed on a roundabout outside a cop shop late one night. The great tool.
    How much had you he been drinking?
    Lol. Actually not me on this occasion despite being a former heavy drinker (now almost tee total). He was VERY pissed
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959
    PJH said:

    Lib Dems up to 20% soon IMHO

    ....oh be still my beating heart....

    :smiley:
    They called me crazy when I predicted Labour being very firmly ahead.

    That is my next crazy prediction
    They only got 16.8% in 97, and Davey is no Ashdown.
    True. But Starmer is no Blair either. And the comparison between Johnson and Major is off the scale.
    According to @isam's law, the most charismatic candidate always wins.

    My theory is that we oscillate between charismatic and dull, but the dull candidate usually takes over midterm and when the ship is already holed below the waterline.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclists seem uniquely aggressive in the UK. I suspect it’s because we’re not a very bicycle-friendly nation (as polls show) so cyclists feel they have to fight for the right to be on the road. This creates a vicious, er, cycle - where others perceive them as aggressive so the tension worsens

    I’ve nearly been run over by several in Regent’s Park - whizzing through red lights at speed - not giving a fuck - even though multiple kids cross ti get into the park. Wankers

    Other countries don’t seem to have this pestilence of super-charged twats going as fast as they can within city centres

    As a recent convert to cycle commuting I think that one issue is that it still feels fairly unsafe cycling on the road, and this discourages more risk averse or less confident cyclists from using the roads. This means that a high proportion of cyclists are aggressive risk taking types, and their behaviour then sets the norm. So for instance, generally speaking I don't cycle through red lights, but I do sometimes eg when there are no other road users or pedestrians crossing, especially if it's just a left turn. If everyone else is doing it too you feel a bit stupid waiting there, it is much easier and often safer just to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.
    My general philosophy of road usage as a cyclist and a driver is to pay most attention to those more vulnerable than you. For a cyclist that means pedestrians, and for a motorist that means cyclists.
    Would you go through that red light in your car, if there was no-one around? How’s about if your bike had a number plate?
    About 20 years ago, the City of London police did a crackdown on people jumping red lights. They pulled people over, and then got points put on the cyclists' driving licenses for their transgressions.

    Which, by the way, is a good idea for the most egregious rule breakers.

    However it did cause problems. My then boss was pulled over for running a red light, and they demanded his driving license. "I don't have one", he said. And they refused to believe him. They - stupidly - decided to escalate this, taking him down the station on the assumption that he was lying (he wasn't.)
    Yes, people dont realise they can have their driving licence endorsed, if they have one, for offences committed on a vehicle for which a licence isn’t required.

    There have been a few “drunk in charge of a horse” or “drunk in charge of an electric scooter” procecutions, where people who had sensibly left their car at the pub ended up banned from driving as a result. I’m not sure that’s particularly a good thing, where maybe a fine should be more appropriate.
    Seems reasonable to me. They were still operating something they shouldn't have when drunk, as it would still be a risk to others, and so should lose a related right as a result.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,923

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    We haven’t discussed the very minor brouhaha about M&S pulling out of town centres in favour of out-of-town malls.

    Blame anti-parking local governments.

    Not seen it but am reminded of this:-

    A much bigger blow for the women was the recent closure of Marks & Spencer. ‘There’s nothing nice here any more,’ ‘Nowhere to get something special – nowhere for presents,’ ‘Nowhere with good-quality things – nice knickers.’ I was struck by the powerful impact of the loss of M&S as the pollster Peter Kellner had sent me an interesting article a few months before, pointing out how M&S store closures in small towns could be mapped closely to the Brexit-voting seats that Labour lost. He suggested that we might think of M&S as the canary in the mine, an early prediction of future demise in towns that have lost their sense of purpose.
    Beyond the Red Wall. Deborah Mattinson.
    M&S is one of the best things about the UK, and so I think Kellner’s analysis is very savvy.

    I find the issue interesting as Britain really really should try to avoid the US model of dead town and nearby strip mall.
    Is it though? You sound like some Brexit voters with their nostalgia glasses on all the time.
    I’m thinking more of the food.

    But I do know people who rely on M&S for clothings basics. They tend to be poorer and maybe older, but M&S delivers quality.
    I'm still wondering why I can't get a food delivery from M&S. It's quite annoying.
    Ocado....
    Ocado don't deliver in Scotland sadly.
    I wonder what happened to this?

    MARKS & Spencer shoppers can now get groceries delivered to their doors in 30 minutes from 142 of the supermarket's branches - including ones in Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow. The expanded delivery service with Deliveroo, which launched yesterday, comes ahead of its £750million deal with Ocado set to start in September. - 5 May 2020
    It's a bit of a mystery. At a guess all the drivers were snapped up post lockdown and it fell apart. There are just a few M&S 'treats' I really miss but not enough to take train trip for. Amazon Fresh is doing roaring business here though doing their own products and the side-deals with Morrisons and the Co-op.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959
    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Harvard Psycology Professor Steven Pinker’s book ‘Rationality’, came up with the statistic that more Americans die every year in plane crashes, than in car crashes - if all you do is watch is the national news networks and count the deaths. A significant number surveyed by pollsters agree.

    The reality is a difference of two orders of magnitude, and three orders of magnitude if you ignore recreational aviation. More than 100 people die in car crashes, every day in the US.
    Almost as many Americans died in car crashes in each year during the Vietnam War than died in the entire Vietnam War.
    There are an extraordinary number of road deaths in the US every year - more than 40,000 last year. That's the equivalent of a small parliamentary constituency dying on the roads every year.
    More carnage than from guns?
    Pun intended.

    Yes, approximately twice as many people die on the roads (42k vs 21k) every year.

    Albeit, it should be noted that the gap has narrowed in recent years, as the roads have gotten safer.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Interesting question, to which I honestly have no idea. Someone should Tweet at Martin Lewis, who’s currently doing an online Q&A with Sunak.
    I'm watching the live feed. Sunak has an impressive grasp of detail.
    It is made even more striking when you think about a Boris press conference / announcement...where he has zero grasp of detail.
    I’m feeling slightly more optimistic about the Betfair fiver I put on him today as next leader…
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    rcs1000 said:

    PJH said:

    Lib Dems up to 20% soon IMHO

    ....oh be still my beating heart....

    :smiley:
    They called me crazy when I predicted Labour being very firmly ahead.

    That is my next crazy prediction
    They only got 16.8% in 97, and Davey is no Ashdown.
    True. But Starmer is no Blair either. And the comparison between Johnson and Major is off the scale.
    According to @isam's law, the most charismatic candidate always wins.

    My theory is that we oscillate between charismatic and dull, but the dull candidate usually takes over midterm and when the ship is already holed below the waterline.
    That would probably put Ben Wallace or Steve Barclay in pole position to take over.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341
    edited May 2022
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic that's a great LibDem message. Did 300 Cons MPs really vote against a windfall tax last week?!

    They voted against a Labour motion, at an Opposition Day debate.
    Rachel Reeves today spoke directly to Conservatives:-

    Every day for five months, the Prime Minister sent Conservative MPs out to attack the windfall tax and yet defend an increase in taxes on working people. He has made them vote against the windfall tax not once, not twice, but three times. For months, he has sent his MPs to defend the litany of rule-breaking in No. 10 Downing Street that was set out in the Sue Gray report yesterday. There is a lesson here for Conservative MPs: you cannot believe a word this Prime Minister says, and as long as he is in office, he will continue making fools out of each and every one of you.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Interesting question, to which I honestly have no idea. Someone should Tweet at Martin Lewis, who’s currently doing an online Q&A with Sunak.
    I'm watching the live feed. Sunak has an impressive grasp of detail.
    It is made even more striking when you think about a Boris press conference / announcement...where he has zero grasp of detail.
    And yet even now, rocking though he is, Boris is many times more likely to still be PM next year than Sunak is to ever make it. Tough break.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594
    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bernie Ecclestone. I’m sure he’ll find a way to pay them off.
    I'm sure he can find a character witness to vouch for him being a pretty straight kind of guy.
    I'm not sure if that guy is around anymore, if you see him now he seems to have transitioned into Peter Stringfellow.
    I sometimes am round the corner from him in London and I can tell you that he receives a string of high profile visitors to whom no doubt he imparts the benefit of his wisdom. And yes there is definitely a Peter Stringfellow vibe going on.
    I’d quite happily vote for Blair as PM. He’s far better than the choice we have now: Beer Korma and the Boris. T Blair actually seems to think strategically, and with an open mind. For instance, he has adjusted to Brexit and sees opportunities as well as downsides. Did he want a 2nd vote? I hope not

    I guess lefties will see that as a measure of how rightwing Blair has become, that he now appeals to someone like me

    Ditto Mandelson. He was sharp as fuck. Get him back, too
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    Are payg meters online? What about meters like in my flat that still take coins? Landlord pays the bill when it comes in and collects from the meter.

    Smart ones are. I had no idea coin operated meters still existed and I used to work for an energy supplier...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    The Hill is pretty Republican friendly.

    Georgia deals critical blow to Trump’s kingmaker status
    https://thehill.com/news/campaign/3501677-georgia-deals-critical-blow-to-trumps-kingmaker-status/

    Might be nothing, but there are a few more straws in the wind. I don’t think another Trump nomination is anywhere near inevitable, even though he is probably still favourite.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Harvard Psycology Professor Steven Pinker’s book ‘Rationality’, came up with the statistic that more Americans die every year in plane crashes, than in car crashes - if all you do is watch is the national news networks and count the deaths. A significant number surveyed by pollsters agree.

    The reality is a difference of two orders of magnitude, and three orders of magnitude if you ignore recreational aviation. More than 100 people die in car crashes, every day in the US.
    Almost as many Americans died in car crashes in each year during the Vietnam War than died in the entire Vietnam War.
    There are an extraordinary number of road deaths in the US every year - more than 40,000 last year. That's the equivalent of a small parliamentary constituency dying on the roads every year.
    And a similar number of gun deaths. Indeed more people have died of gunshots in the USA in the last 4 decades than in all the US wars since independence.

    I believe drug overdoses, mostly opiates beat road traffic and gun deaths combined.

    America is a very strange society to tolerate this.
    Drug deaths are about twice road deaths, which are about twice firearm deaths.

    Of course a fair number of the firearm deaths are drug related (one way or another) too.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    edited May 2022
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclists seem uniquely aggressive in the UK. I suspect it’s because we’re not a very bicycle-friendly nation (as polls show) so cyclists feel they have to fight for the right to be on the road. This creates a vicious, er, cycle - where others perceive them as aggressive so the tension worsens

    I’ve nearly been run over by several in Regent’s Park - whizzing through red lights at speed - not giving a fuck - even though multiple kids cross ti get into the park. Wankers

    Other countries don’t seem to have this pestilence of super-charged twats going as fast as they can within city centres

    As a recent convert to cycle commuting I think that one issue is that it still feels fairly unsafe cycling on the road, and this discourages more risk averse or less confident cyclists from using the roads. This means that a high proportion of cyclists are aggressive risk taking types, and their behaviour then sets the norm. So for instance, generally speaking I don't cycle through red lights, but I do sometimes eg when there are no other road users or pedestrians crossing, especially if it's just a left turn. If everyone else is doing it too you feel a bit stupid waiting there, it is much easier and often safer just to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.
    My general philosophy of road usage as a cyclist and a driver is to pay most attention to those more vulnerable than you. For a cyclist that means pedestrians, and for a motorist that means cyclists.
    Would you go through that red light in your car, if there was no-one around? How’s about if your bike had a number plate?
    About 20 years ago, the City of London police did a crackdown on people jumping red lights. They pulled people over, and then got points put on the cyclists' driving licenses for their transgressions.

    Which, by the way, is a good idea for the most egregious rule breakers.

    However it did cause problems. My then boss was pulled over for running a red light, and they demanded his driving license. "I don't have one", he said. And they refused to believe him. They - stupidly - decided to escalate this, taking him down the station on the assumption that he was lying (he wasn't.)
    Yes, people dont realise they can have their driving licence endorsed, if they have one, for offences committed on a vehicle for which a licence isn’t required.

    There have been a few “drunk in charge of a horse” or “drunk in charge of an electric scooter” procecutions, where people who had sensibly left their car at the pub ended up banned from driving as a result. I’m not sure that’s particularly a good thing, where maybe a fine should be more appropriate.
    Seems reasonable to me. They were still operating something they shouldn't have when drunk, as it would still be a risk to others, and so should lose a related right as a result.
    The issue is the disproportionality. The guy who only ever rides his bike, gets caught riding home from the pub and gets a fine in court. The guy with a car who gets caught riding his bike home from the pub gets banned from driving his car.

    The latter situation is much more likely to occur outside big cities, and much more likely to see the offender lose his job as a result.

    The policeman is probably more likely to have the guy done, if he also has a car driving licence, which is an aggravating factor.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,678
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Yes. IMO most anti cyclist sentiment is derived from selection bias. A cyclist ignore the highway code it is remembered and anecdotes are created as they are the other. A motorist breaks the code its not remarkable just something that happens as they are in group.

    I've always felt that cycling on Britain's roads is the closest to active discrimination I can get in the UK. The power dynamic is huge and you're entirely at the whim of what feels to be a capricious often actively malicious percentage of road users.

    The majority of drivers are lovely and courteous, 5% are ignorant and 1% are bastards.
    I can't remember the last time I saw a car run a red light. Cyclists? All the bloody time.
    I'm not saying that cyclists are brilliant. For sure the type of transport dictates which rule breaking is more common. Just that inconsiderate driving will not be remembered to the extant that cycling will.

    Do you really remember the driver that cut you up on the roundabout? Or was doing 100+ on the motorway? Or ignored the zebra crossing you were waiting at?
    One thing to be in another car, another not to be. And cars don't normally drive on pavements. Unlike cyclists, who are sometimes actually encouraged to do so.
    You're much more likely to be killed by a car on the pavement then a cyclist, pavement or otherwise.

    Of course there is a power dynamic between cyclist and pedestrians. But the dynamic between drivers and everyone else is much greater and far far deadlier.
    I've never had a run in with a car on the pacement in Edinburgh that I can recall. But several very close shaves with cyclists, some at top speed. Precisely the sort of incident which leads to heads impacting the pavement.

    The sooner we see licence plates and licences and cycling tests and compulsory training the happier I will be.
    You're a thousand time more likely to be assaulted than to be hit by a bike.

    The sooner we all have identifying tattoos and microchips the safer you'll be.
    You must be able to run away on your bike a lot quicker ...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    rcs1000 said:

    PJH said:

    Lib Dems up to 20% soon IMHO

    ....oh be still my beating heart....

    :smiley:
    They called me crazy when I predicted Labour being very firmly ahead.

    That is my next crazy prediction
    They only got 16.8% in 97, and Davey is no Ashdown.
    True. But Starmer is no Blair either. And the comparison between Johnson and Major is off the scale.
    According to @isam's law, the most charismatic candidate always wins.

    My theory is that we oscillate between charismatic and dull, but the dull candidate usually takes over midterm and when the ship is already holed below the waterline.
    There’s still time for Wallace. :smile:
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,930
    edited May 2022

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic that's a great LibDem message. Did 300 Cons MPs really vote against a windfall tax last week?!

    They voted against a Labour motion, at an Opposition Day debate.
    Rachel Reeves today:-

    Every day for five months, the Prime Minister sent Conservative MPs out to attack the windfall tax and yet defend an increase in taxes on working people. He has made them vote against the windfall tax not once, not twice, but three times. For months, he has sent his MPs to defend the litany of rule-breaking in No. 10 Downing Street that was set out in the Sue Gray report yesterday. There is a lesson here for Conservative MPs: you cannot believe a word this Prime Minister says, and as long as he is in office, he will continue making fools out of each and every one of you.
    Its ok Rachel, we will put your windfall drawing on the fridge too, we love you all equally. ;)
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclists seem uniquely aggressive in the UK. I suspect it’s because we’re not a very bicycle-friendly nation (as polls show) so cyclists feel they have to fight for the right to be on the road. This creates a vicious, er, cycle - where others perceive them as aggressive so the tension worsens

    I’ve nearly been run over by several in Regent’s Park - whizzing through red lights at speed - not giving a fuck - even though multiple kids cross ti get into the park. Wankers

    Other countries don’t seem to have this pestilence of super-charged twats going as fast as they can within city centres

    As a recent convert to cycle commuting I think that one issue is that it still feels fairly unsafe cycling on the road, and this discourages more risk averse or less confident cyclists from using the roads. This means that a high proportion of cyclists are aggressive risk taking types, and their behaviour then sets the norm. So for instance, generally speaking I don't cycle through red lights, but I do sometimes eg when there are no other road users or pedestrians crossing, especially if it's just a left turn. If everyone else is doing it too you feel a bit stupid waiting there, it is much easier and often safer just to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.
    My general philosophy of road usage as a cyclist and a driver is to pay most attention to those more vulnerable than you. For a cyclist that means pedestrians, and for a motorist that means cyclists.
    Would you go through that red light in your car, if there was no-one around? How’s about if your bike had a number plate?
    About 20 years ago, the City of London police did a crackdown on people jumping red lights. They pulled people over, and then got points put on the cyclists' driving licenses for their transgressions.

    Which, by the way, is a good idea for the most egregious rule breakers.

    However it did cause problems. My then boss was pulled over for running a red light, and they demanded his driving license. "I don't have one", he said. And they refused to believe him. They - stupidly - decided to escalate this, taking him down the station on the assumption that he was lying (he wasn't.)
    Yes, people dont realise they can have their driving licence endorsed, if they have one, for offences committed on a vehicle for which a licence isn’t required.

    There have been a few “drunk in charge of a horse” or “drunk in charge of an electric scooter” procecutions, where people who had sensibly left their car at the pub ended up banned from driving as a result. I’m not sure that’s particularly a good thing, where maybe a fine should be more appropriate.
    Seems reasonable to me. They were still operating something they shouldn't have when drunk, as it would still be a risk to others, and so should lose a related right as a result.
    I almost got charged with drunk in charge of a shopping trolley once but the police let me off when they discovered I was while admittedly well over the limit on a rescue mission
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,283
    edited May 2022
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclists seem uniquely aggressive in the UK. I suspect it’s because we’re not a very bicycle-friendly nation (as polls show) so cyclists feel they have to fight for the right to be on the road. This creates a vicious, er, cycle - where others perceive them as aggressive so the tension worsens

    I’ve nearly been run over by several in Regent’s Park - whizzing through red lights at speed - not giving a fuck - even though multiple kids cross ti get into the park. Wankers

    Other countries don’t seem to have this pestilence of super-charged twats going as fast as they can within city centres

    As a recent convert to cycle commuting I think that one issue is that it still feels fairly unsafe cycling on the road, and this discourages more risk averse or less confident cyclists from using the roads. This means that a high proportion of cyclists are aggressive risk taking types, and their behaviour then sets the norm. So for instance, generally speaking I don't cycle through red lights, but I do sometimes eg when there are no other road users or pedestrians crossing, especially if it's just a left turn. If everyone else is doing it too you feel a bit stupid waiting there, it is much easier and often safer just to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.
    My general philosophy of road usage as a cyclist and a driver is to pay most attention to those more vulnerable than you. For a cyclist that means pedestrians, and for a motorist that means cyclists.
    Would you go through that red light in your car, if there was no-one around? How’s about if your bike had a number plate?
    About 20 years ago, the City of London police did a crackdown on people jumping red lights. They pulled people over, and then got points put on the cyclists' driving licenses for their transgressions.

    Which, by the way, is a good idea for the most egregious rule breakers.

    However it did cause problems. My then boss was pulled over for running a red light, and they demanded his driving license. "I don't have one", he said. And they refused to believe him. They - stupidly - decided to escalate this, taking him down the station on the assumption that he was lying (he wasn't.)
    Waiting for the punch line......
    There wasn't really a punchline. The police grudgingly accepted that he didn't have a driving license, but only after he'd spent a couple of hours at the station. He was very indignant and wrote letters to the police, his MP, etc., and I don't think anything happened.

    But I kind of get where the police were coming from: a well off 35 year old American bloke in London is 99% likely to have a driving license. And the police didn't want people pulling a Huhne and saying "sorry, I don't have a license". But they massively overreacted to his denials. Taking his name and number and verifying it later would have been much more sensible. (Although, I guess, still vulnerable to people lying to the police.)
    Should the police discriminate based on what someone look like, talks like, and the area in which the office was committed?
    eg Customs Officers do - as do many airline security operatives. It's called profiling. But I accept that it can lead to very bad outcomes if misused/abused.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Harvard Psycology Professor Steven Pinker’s book ‘Rationality’, came up with the statistic that more Americans die every year in plane crashes, than in car crashes - if all you do is watch is the national news networks and count the deaths. A significant number surveyed by pollsters agree.

    The reality is a difference of two orders of magnitude, and three orders of magnitude if you ignore recreational aviation. More than 100 people die in car crashes, every day in the US.
    Almost as many Americans died in car crashes in each year during the Vietnam War than died in the entire Vietnam War.
    There are an extraordinary number of road deaths in the US every year - more than 40,000 last year. That's the equivalent of a small parliamentary constituency dying on the roads every year.
    And a similar number of gun deaths. Indeed more people have died of gunshots in the USA in the last 4 decades than in all the US wars since independence.

    I believe drug overdoses, mostly opiates beat road traffic and gun deaths combined.

    America is a very strange society to tolerate this.
    Drug deaths are about twice road deaths, which are about twice firearm deaths.

    Of course a fair number of the firearm deaths are drug related (one way or another) too.
    The other day I came up with a solution to the US drug problem, BUT I’M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU, HAHAHAHA

    I might write about it in the Knapper’s Gazette, instead. Or the Basalt Butt-Plug Monthly Supplement - they’re trying to poach me
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955
    edited May 2022
    Here's a question. Answer may be obvious.
    This £ 400. Does it come off the leccy or the gas?
    Who decides? And how do they inform the other?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,283
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Harvard Psycology Professor Steven Pinker’s book ‘Rationality’, came up with the statistic that more Americans die every year in plane crashes, than in car crashes - if all you do is watch is the national news networks and count the deaths. A significant number surveyed by pollsters agree.

    The reality is a difference of two orders of magnitude, and three orders of magnitude if you ignore recreational aviation. More than 100 people die in car crashes, every day in the US.
    Almost as many Americans died in car crashes in each year during the Vietnam War than died in the entire Vietnam War.
    There are an extraordinary number of road deaths in the US every year - more than 40,000 last year. That's the equivalent of a small parliamentary constituency dying on the roads every year.
    More carnage than from guns?
    Pun intended.

    Road accidents have always been a high risk factor for the US *Army* itself - an appreciable proportion of casualties even in active war.
    Same in HMF. It used to be (during Op Banner) that more soldiers died in road accidents than on active service. Including a good friend of mine.
    Similarly aid workers in Africa. That and light aviation.
    I'd have thought STDs would be the main threat to aid workers in Africa. That and arrest for abuse.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    Applicant said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    Are payg meters online? What about meters like in my flat that still take coins? Landlord pays the bill when it comes in and collects from the meter.

    Smart ones are. I had no idea coin operated meters still existed and I used to work for an energy supplier...
    I certainly know a few people still putting coins in. Generally the bill goes to the landlord and he pays it but then pockets the money from the meter. Commoner in HMO's I believe
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,442
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Applicant said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Yes. IMO most anti cyclist sentiment is derived from selection bias. A cyclist ignore the highway code it is remembered and anecdotes are created as they are the other. A motorist breaks the code its not remarkable just something that happens as they are in group.

    I've always felt that cycling on Britain's roads is the closest to active discrimination I can get in the UK. The power dynamic is huge and you're entirely at the whim of what feels to be a capricious often actively malicious percentage of road users.

    The majority of drivers are lovely and courteous, 5% are ignorant and 1% are bastards.
    I can't remember the last time I saw a car run a red light. Cyclists? All the bloody time.
    I'm not saying that cyclists are brilliant. For sure the type of transport dictates which rule breaking is more common. Just that inconsiderate driving will not be remembered to the extant that cycling will.

    Do you really remember the driver that cut you up on the roundabout? Or was doing 100+ on the motorway? Or ignored the zebra crossing you were waiting at?
    One thing to be in another car, another not to be. And cars don't normally drive on pavements. Unlike cyclists, who are sometimes actually encouraged to do so.
    You're much more likely to be killed by a car on the pavement then a cyclist, pavement or otherwise.

    Of course there is a power dynamic between cyclist and pedestrians. But the dynamic between drivers and everyone else is much greater and far far deadlier.
    I've never had a run in with a car on the pacement in Edinburgh that I can recall. But several very close shaves with cyclists, some at top speed. Precisely the sort of incident which leads to heads impacting the pavement.

    The sooner we see licence plates and licences and cycling tests and compulsory training the happier I will be.
    I'm not sure you will be any happier.

    In 2017 there were 2.4million motoring convictions. People do stupid things in cars and on bikes whether or not they have a number plate or have been licensed to operate them. Its just that cars are much much more likely to hurt you.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.
  • Options
    KeystoneKeystone Posts: 127

    We haven’t discussed the very minor brouhaha about M&S pulling out of town centres in favour of out-of-town malls.

    Blame anti-parking local governments.

    Not seen it but am reminded of this:-

    A much bigger blow for the women was the recent closure of Marks & Spencer. ‘There’s nothing nice here any more,’ ‘Nowhere to get something special – nowhere for presents,’ ‘Nowhere with good-quality things – nice knickers.’ I was struck by the powerful impact of the loss of M&S as the pollster Peter Kellner had sent me an interesting article a few months before, pointing out how M&S store closures in small towns could be mapped closely to the Brexit-voting seats that Labour lost. He suggested that we might think of M&S as the canary in the mine, an early prediction of future demise in towns that have lost their sense of purpose.
    Beyond the Red Wall. Deborah Mattinson.
    M&S is one of the best things about the UK, and so I think Kellner’s analysis is very savvy.

    I find the issue interesting as Britain really really should try to avoid the US model of dead town and nearby strip mall.
    Is it though? You sound like some Brexit voters with their nostalgia glasses on all the time.
    I’m thinking more of the food.

    But I do know people who rely on M&S for clothings basics. They tend to be poorer and maybe older, but M&S delivers quality.
    I would still say John Lewis / Waitrose is a better example. I don't think M&S necessarily even delivers quality on clothes these days.
    I think M&S began to decline when they began sourcing so many of their clothes from abroad. There was a solid market for dowdy British made clobber.

    Brand loyalty sustained them through the 90s and early 2000s, but they haven't really developed a compelling USP for the under 50s.

    And then the ageing demographic of its existing customer base further discouraged evolutionary change.

    By contrast, John Lewis started selling mass-market (mastege) brands for people who would have bought own brand goods in the 1980s. If you cannot beat them, join them.

    The parallels with some political strategies (core vote and triangulation) are clear...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959
    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    It's a long time since I had PAYG (1996-2000), but I don't think that would be simple.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    Are payg meters online? What about meters like in my flat that still take coins? Landlord pays the bill when it comes in and collects from the meter.

    Smart ones are. I had no idea coin operated meters still existed and I used to work for an energy supplier...
    I certainly know a few people still putting coins in. Generally the bill goes to the landlord and he pays it but then pockets the money from the meter. Commoner in HMO's I believe
    Pretty sure that’s the landlord’s meter, rather than the power company’s meter. An interesting edge case.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    Are payg meters online? What about meters like in my flat that still take coins? Landlord pays the bill when it comes in and collects from the meter.

    Smart ones are. I had no idea coin operated meters still existed and I used to work for an energy supplier...
    I certainly know a few people still putting coins in. Generally the bill goes to the landlord and he pays it but then pockets the money from the meter. Commoner in HMO's I believe
    Pretty sure that’s the landlord’s meter, rather than the power company’s meter. An interesting edge case.
    Yes it is the landlords meter but as I said seems not uncommon in hmo's
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    Keystone said:

    We haven’t discussed the very minor brouhaha about M&S pulling out of town centres in favour of out-of-town malls.

    Blame anti-parking local governments.

    Not seen it but am reminded of this:-

    A much bigger blow for the women was the recent closure of Marks & Spencer. ‘There’s nothing nice here any more,’ ‘Nowhere to get something special – nowhere for presents,’ ‘Nowhere with good-quality things – nice knickers.’ I was struck by the powerful impact of the loss of M&S as the pollster Peter Kellner had sent me an interesting article a few months before, pointing out how M&S store closures in small towns could be mapped closely to the Brexit-voting seats that Labour lost. He suggested that we might think of M&S as the canary in the mine, an early prediction of future demise in towns that have lost their sense of purpose.
    Beyond the Red Wall. Deborah Mattinson.
    M&S is one of the best things about the UK, and so I think Kellner’s analysis is very savvy.

    I find the issue interesting as Britain really really should try to avoid the US model of dead town and nearby strip mall.
    Is it though? You sound like some Brexit voters with their nostalgia glasses on all the time.
    I’m thinking more of the food.

    But I do know people who rely on M&S for clothings basics. They tend to be poorer and maybe older, but M&S delivers quality.
    I would still say John Lewis / Waitrose is a better example. I don't think M&S necessarily even delivers quality on clothes these days.
    I think M&S began to decline when they began sourcing so many of their clothes from abroad. There was a solid market for dowdy British made clobber.

    Brand loyalty sustained them through the 90s and early 2000s, but they haven't really developed a compelling USP for the under 50s.

    And then the ageing demographic of its existing customer base further discouraged evolutionary change.

    By contrast, John Lewis started selling mass-market (mastege) brands for people who would have bought own brand goods in the 1980s. If you cannot beat them, join them.

    The parallels with some political strategies (core vote and triangulation) are clear...
    Yet M&S food is a great success. It is certainly the best food supermarket in Camden

    Quite bizarre that they are so good at food yet have completely cratered the clothing stuff. And even more bizarre that they can’t seem to fix it even by hiring super talented people. Must be a small boring business book in that, somewhere
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,923
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386
    edited May 2022
    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    Are payg meters online? What about meters like in my flat that still take coins? Landlord pays the bill when it comes in and collects from the meter.

    Smart ones are. I had no idea coin operated meters still existed and I used to work for an energy supplier...
    I certainly know a few people still putting coins in. Generally the bill goes to the landlord and he pays it but then pockets the money from the meter. Commoner in HMO's I believe
    I had an electric meter in my student digs in the 80s in Wales. I did a calculation on the usage and cost, and found I was being seriously ripped off. Sadly I couldn't do anything about it. The landlord could set the kWh rate and lock it.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,283
    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Interesting yes not a bad point. Cars do speed up to get through "on amber" and sometimes the light is red before they get there. However, per traffic light mile, especially in London, cyclists are the worse offenders. I can tell you that around 90% of cyclists routinely go through red lights at whatever stage they or the light is at, often weaving through the pedestrians crossing on the green man as they go.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic that's a great LibDem message. Did 300 Cons MPs really vote against a windfall tax last week?!

    They voted against a Labour motion, at an Opposition Day debate.
    Rachel Reeves today:-

    Every day for five months, the Prime Minister sent Conservative MPs out to attack the windfall tax and yet defend an increase in taxes on working people. He has made them vote against the windfall tax not once, not twice, but three times. For months, he has sent his MPs to defend the litany of rule-breaking in No. 10 Downing Street that was set out in the Sue Gray report yesterday. There is a lesson here for Conservative MPs: you cannot believe a word this Prime Minister says, and as long as he is in office, he will continue making fools out of each and every one of you.
    Its ok Rachel, we will put your windfall drawing on the fridge too, we love you all equally. ;)
    It will resonate not just with backbenchers but with Cabinet ministers sent out to defend Boris's various positions just before he pulls the rug out from under them.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    Are payg meters online? What about meters like in my flat that still take coins? Landlord pays the bill when it comes in and collects from the meter.

    Smart ones are. I had no idea coin operated meters still existed and I used to work for an energy supplier...
    I certainly know a few people still putting coins in. Generally the bill goes to the landlord and he pays it but then pockets the money from the meter. Commoner in HMO's I believe
    I had an electric meter in my student digs in the 80s in Wales. I did a calculation on the usage and cost, and found I was being seriously ripped off. Sadly I couldn't do anything about it. The landlord could set the kWh rate and lock it.
    Mine seems ok in fact landlord hasnt been asking to up the rate which has surprised me
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Harvard Psycology Professor Steven Pinker’s book ‘Rationality’, came up with the statistic that more Americans die every year in plane crashes, than in car crashes - if all you do is watch is the national news networks and count the deaths. A significant number surveyed by pollsters agree.

    The reality is a difference of two orders of magnitude, and three orders of magnitude if you ignore recreational aviation. More than 100 people die in car crashes, every day in the US.
    Almost as many Americans died in car crashes in each year during the Vietnam War than died in the entire Vietnam War.
    There are an extraordinary number of road deaths in the US every year - more than 40,000 last year. That's the equivalent of a small parliamentary constituency dying on the roads every year.
    And a similar number of gun deaths. Indeed more people have died of gunshots in the USA in the last 4 decades than in all the US wars since independence.

    I believe drug overdoses, mostly opiates beat road traffic and gun deaths combined.

    America is a very strange society to tolerate this.
    Drug deaths are about twice road deaths, which are about twice firearm deaths.

    Of course a fair number of the firearm deaths are drug related (one way or another) too.
    No, there are about 40 000 gun deaths too. Your figures may be for gun homicides, there are a little more than the same number of gun suicides too.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959
    Nigelb said:
    Tamara's dad.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclists seem uniquely aggressive in the UK. I suspect it’s because we’re not a very bicycle-friendly nation (as polls show) so cyclists feel they have to fight for the right to be on the road. This creates a vicious, er, cycle - where others perceive them as aggressive so the tension worsens

    I’ve nearly been run over by several in Regent’s Park - whizzing through red lights at speed - not giving a fuck - even though multiple kids cross ti get into the park. Wankers

    Other countries don’t seem to have this pestilence of super-charged twats going as fast as they can within city centres

    As a recent convert to cycle commuting I think that one issue is that it still feels fairly unsafe cycling on the road, and this discourages more risk averse or less confident cyclists from using the roads. This means that a high proportion of cyclists are aggressive risk taking types, and their behaviour then sets the norm. So for instance, generally speaking I don't cycle through red lights, but I do sometimes eg when there are no other road users or pedestrians crossing, especially if it's just a left turn. If everyone else is doing it too you feel a bit stupid waiting there, it is much easier and often safer just to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.
    My general philosophy of road usage as a cyclist and a driver is to pay most attention to those more vulnerable than you. For a cyclist that means pedestrians, and for a motorist that means cyclists.
    Would you go through that red light in your car, if there was no-one around? How’s about if your bike had a number plate?
    About 20 years ago, the City of London police did a crackdown on people jumping red lights. They pulled people over, and then got points put on the cyclists' driving licenses for their transgressions.

    Which, by the way, is a good idea for the most egregious rule breakers.

    However it did cause problems. My then boss was pulled over for running a red light, and they demanded his driving license. "I don't have one", he said. And they refused to believe him. They - stupidly - decided to escalate this, taking him down the station on the assumption that he was lying (he wasn't.)
    Waiting for the punch line......
    There wasn't really a punchline. The police grudgingly accepted that he didn't have a driving license, but only after he'd spent a couple of hours at the station. He was very indignant and wrote letters to the police, his MP, etc., and I don't think anything happened.

    But I kind of get where the police were coming from: a well off 35 year old American bloke in London is 99% likely to have a driving license. And the police didn't want people pulling a Huhne and saying "sorry, I don't have a license". But they massively overreacted to his denials. Taking his name and number and verifying it later would have been much more sensible. (Although, I guess, still vulnerable to people lying to the police.)
    Should the police discriminate based on what someone look like, talks like, and the area in which the office was committed?
    eg Customs Officers do - as do many airline security operatives. It's called profiling. But I accept that it can lead to very bad outcomes if misused/abused.
    Of course - but the police have been told off lots for profiling, and are supposed to treat everyone the same.

    If they catch you red-handed, committing an offence for which they intend to write you up, and you can’t prove your identity, you’ll be nicked. Irrespective of whether you’re in Bank or Brixton.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,930
    edited May 2022

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic that's a great LibDem message. Did 300 Cons MPs really vote against a windfall tax last week?!

    They voted against a Labour motion, at an Opposition Day debate.
    Rachel Reeves today:-

    Every day for five months, the Prime Minister sent Conservative MPs out to attack the windfall tax and yet defend an increase in taxes on working people. He has made them vote against the windfall tax not once, not twice, but three times. For months, he has sent his MPs to defend the litany of rule-breaking in No. 10 Downing Street that was set out in the Sue Gray report yesterday. There is a lesson here for Conservative MPs: you cannot believe a word this Prime Minister says, and as long as he is in office, he will continue making fools out of each and every one of you.
    Its ok Rachel, we will put your windfall drawing on the fridge too, we love you all equally. ;)
    It will resonate not just with backbenchers but with Cabinet ministers sent out to defend Boris's various positions just before he pulls the rug out from under them.
    I dont disagree but shes pissed it will be 'the cash' and not 'the u turn' that sways feelings for many of the electorate. U turns arent as harmful as the politicos think. And she got outbid on help.

    If it damages boz, bonus
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,678
    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
    Don't start me on runners - includinbg an incident when one just ran through an elderlyt lady and her dog as if he was Mr ****ing Hyde from the Stevenson novel. She only survived multiple fractures by cowering into the wall. And this was at the height of the worst lockdown. I was almost sorry he didn't trip over the leash and take out his teeth on the kerb.

    I';ve had one try to squeeze into a narrow space between me and the wall and risk pushing me into the traffic without warning, and then take offence and square up when I yelped involuntarily in shock

    The worst seem to be middle aged males. I wonder if it's all those fitbits? They can't bear to risk losing 0.004 seconds by giving an old lady 2 metres' grace space just because of some pedestrian cluttering their racetrack.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    IshmaelZ said:

    Interesting from Biden

    "The Second Amendment is “not absolute”, Joe Biden said on Wednesday as he called for new restrictions on gun ownership in the wake of a school shooting that killed 21 people.

    The US president warned that “enough is enough” and he will move to stop the gun “carnage” happening across the United States.

    “When in God's name will we do what needs to be done to, if not completely stop, fundamentally change the amount of the carnage that goes on in this country?” he asked.

    Mr Biden said that when the Second Amendment was made, people “couldn’t own a cannon” or other “certain kinds of weapons”.

    “There’s just always been limitations,” he added. "

    Was therr actually a stipulation against cannons? Mind you it is the right to 'bear arms' and you can't really bear a cannon.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,916
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    At least it must reassure you that there will be a steady supply of local donors for your hospital.
  • Options
    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,157
    rcs1000 said:

    PJH said:

    Lib Dems up to 20% soon IMHO

    ....oh be still my beating heart....

    :smiley:
    They called me crazy when I predicted Labour being very firmly ahead.

    That is my next crazy prediction
    They only got 16.8% in 97, and Davey is no Ashdown.
    True. But Starmer is no Blair either. And the comparison between Johnson and Major is off the scale.
    According to @isam's law, the most charismatic candidate always wins.

    My theory is that we oscillate between charismatic and dull, but the dull candidate usually takes over midterm and when the ship is already holed below the waterline.
    If isam's law was true Clement Attlee would never have become PM and Kinnock would have won in 92.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    The paseo at Preveza (I don’t know what they call the mass evening walk in Greece). It really is one of the hidden gems of the Med.




    HARD RECOMMEND

    It’s nothing amazing. There are no famous sights. Just a long waterfront and an adorable old town. Not that many tourists but a lot of boaty people. Endless tavernas by the lapping waves. Good fish restaurants. That’s it

    But what more do you need?
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    Are payg meters online? What about meters like in my flat that still take coins? Landlord pays the bill when it comes in and collects from the meter.

    Smart ones are. I had no idea coin operated meters still existed and I used to work for an energy supplier...
    I certainly know a few people still putting coins in. Generally the bill goes to the landlord and he pays it but then pockets the money from the meter. Commoner in HMO's I believe
    In which case my guess is that there's one actual meter that belongs to the supplier which measures usage for the whole house and the landlord pays the bill? And he takes the coins that you pay?

    In which case the logical thing is that he gets the discount off the bill and should credit a share for each room against rent.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104
    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    Applicant said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Applicant said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Treasury have confirmed that people with second homes will get the £400 energy bill discount for each one

    Fucking hell

    Including rather a lot of MPs, I presume? Though on reflection isn't their leccy bill at one house paid for by the state already? So it shouldn't make any difference?
    Annoying that 2nd home owners get this, but I suspect the cost of trying to NOT send them the money would be too great. I doubt utilities have a record of which home is actually a 2nd one.
    In Wales, second homes are already known about as they pay a Council Tax premium for them.
    But the credit is being dealt with through the energy companies, who work from their own database that doesn’t interface with the local authority.
    So the actual poorest people will miss out then, those on pay as you go meters and who therefore have no relationship with the energy supplier though the landlord will have.
    Surely PAYG is the easiest to deal with, they just put the credit directly on the meter.
    Are payg meters online? What about meters like in my flat that still take coins? Landlord pays the bill when it comes in and collects from the meter.

    Smart ones are. I had no idea coin operated meters still existed and I used to work for an energy supplier...
    I certainly know a few people still putting coins in. Generally the bill goes to the landlord and he pays it but then pockets the money from the meter. Commoner in HMO's I believe
    In which case my guess is that there's one actual meter that belongs to the supplier which measures usage for the whole house and the landlord pays the bill? And he takes the coins that you pay?

    In which case the logical thing is that he gets the discount off the bill and should credit a share for each room against rent.
    Yes and you think that will happen in most cases?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959
    Nigelb said:

    The Hill is pretty Republican friendly.

    Georgia deals critical blow to Trump’s kingmaker status
    https://thehill.com/news/campaign/3501677-georgia-deals-critical-blow-to-trumps-kingmaker-status/

    Might be nothing, but there are a few more straws in the wind. I don’t think another Trump nomination is anywhere near inevitable, even though he is probably still favourite.

    Kemp didn't just win, he absolutely smashed Purdue too.

    The most interesting thing about the Georgia race? That Mike Pence and Arizona Governor Ducey went out to stump for Kemp. It's a real indication that Trump's influence is not quite what it was: simply, more senior Republicans are willing to step out of line now, in a way they weren't a year ago.

    Ron DeSantis remains the one to watch: he's Trumpian, without being Trump. But would he stand against Trump in the primaries?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Nigelb said:

    The Hill is pretty Republican friendly.

    Georgia deals critical blow to Trump’s kingmaker status
    https://thehill.com/news/campaign/3501677-georgia-deals-critical-blow-to-trumps-kingmaker-status/

    Might be nothing, but there are a few more straws in the wind. I don’t think another Trump nomination is anywhere near inevitable, even though he is probably still favourite.

    Thank heaven for small mercies, if that is so.

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
    Don't start me on runners - includinbg an incident when one just ran through an elderlyt lady and her dog as if he was Mr ****ing Hyde from the Stevenson novel. She only survived multiple fractures by cowering into the wall. And this was at the height of the worst lockdown. I was almost sorry he didn't trip over the leash and take out his teeth on the kerb.

    I';ve had one try to squeeze into a narrow space between me and the wall and risk pushing me into the traffic without warning, and then take offence and square up when I yelped involuntarily in shock

    The worst seem to be middle aged males. I wonder if it's all those fitbits? They can't bear to risk losing 0.004 seconds by giving an old lady 2 metres' grace space just because of some pedestrian cluttering their racetrack.
    The common factor is surely testosterone. Any hard vigorous exercise - running, cycling, weight training, hate-fucking the neighbour’s teenage daughter while laughing like a pirate, er, jogging - will amp up yer testosterone. So you become aggressive. Rudely so

    You can see it in the cycling twats trying to mow down young mums with strollers. Excess testosterone oozing out of the Lycra
  • Options
    LDLFLDLF Posts: 144
    edited May 2022

    Nigelb said:

    Russian hackers release Brexiteers' emails

    The website - titled "Very English Coop d'Etat" - says it has published private emails from former British spymaster Richard Dearlove, leading Brexit campaigner Gisela Stuart, pro-Brexit historian Robert Tombs, and other supporters of Britain's divorce from the EU, which was finalized in January 2020.

    The site contends that they are part of a group of hardline pro-Brexit figures secretly calling the shots in the United Kingdom.

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-russian-hackers-are-linked-new-brexit-leak-website-google-says-2022-05-25/

    ‘Calling the shots’ is the kind of nonsense the late lamented Gary would have come out with.
    The hack does seem genuine, though… FWIW, which isn’t much.

    It’s not a secret that Dearlove is a hardline Brexiteer, is it ?
    Whatever you think of him (not much in my case), the old git’s entitled to lobby now he’s retired.
    … The "English Coop" site makes a variety of allegations, including one that Dearlove was at the center of a conspiracy by Brexit hardliners to oust former British Prime Minister Theresa May, who had negotiated a withdrawal agreement with the European Union in early 2019, and replace her with Johnson, who took a more uncompromising position.

    Dearlove said that the emails captured a "legitimate lobbying exercise which, seen through this antagonistic optic, is now subject to distortion."

    He declined further comment.…
    Shades of Spycatcher
    Shades of Russian leaks of Hillary Clinton's emails from the Democrats' mail server (or whatever it was).
    This story is hilarious for several reasons:

    1. Most politicians at the time (including, but not limited to, hardline Brexiteers) were conspiring in broad daylight to oust Theresa May; that some were doing it in the shadows the old-fashioned way is almost endearing.

    2. The spelling of 'Coup' as 'Coop' - I can't tell if this is a deliberate pun on 'Co-op' or if they just didn't have an English language proofreader.

    3. Presumably if this is the work of Russian agents, it is driven by the idea that British military aid to Ukraine is some sort of Brexiteers' fetish, and that if Johnson is removed as PM the policy will dramatically change, when in fact this is one government policy that enjoys broad cross-party support.
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    So is double parking, or parking on yellow lines when they're in operation, but virtually all drivers do it at some point.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Interesting from Biden

    "The Second Amendment is “not absolute”, Joe Biden said on Wednesday as he called for new restrictions on gun ownership in the wake of a school shooting that killed 21 people.

    The US president warned that “enough is enough” and he will move to stop the gun “carnage” happening across the United States.

    “When in God's name will we do what needs to be done to, if not completely stop, fundamentally change the amount of the carnage that goes on in this country?” he asked.

    Mr Biden said that when the Second Amendment was made, people “couldn’t own a cannon” or other “certain kinds of weapons”.

    “There’s just always been limitations,” he added. "

    Was therr actually a stipulation against cannons? Mind you it is the right to 'bear arms' and you can't really bear a cannon.
    Not in the actual amendment nor afaics in case law. God what a mess the whole thing is.
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561

    rcs1000 said:

    PJH said:

    Lib Dems up to 20% soon IMHO

    ....oh be still my beating heart....

    :smiley:
    They called me crazy when I predicted Labour being very firmly ahead.

    That is my next crazy prediction
    They only got 16.8% in 97, and Davey is no Ashdown.
    True. But Starmer is no Blair either. And the comparison between Johnson and Major is off the scale.
    According to @isam's law, the most charismatic candidate always wins.

    My theory is that we oscillate between charismatic and dull, but the dull candidate usually takes over midterm and when the ship is already holed below the waterline.
    If isam's law was true Clement Attlee would never have become PM and Kinnock would have won in 92.
    Corbyn probably would have beaten TMay in 2017 as well. His charisma completely eluded me, but evidently his devoted fans thought he had some.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,678
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
    Don't start me on runners - includinbg an incident when one just ran through an elderlyt lady and her dog as if he was Mr ****ing Hyde from the Stevenson novel. She only survived multiple fractures by cowering into the wall. And this was at the height of the worst lockdown. I was almost sorry he didn't trip over the leash and take out his teeth on the kerb.

    I';ve had one try to squeeze into a narrow space between me and the wall and risk pushing me into the traffic without warning, and then take offence and square up when I yelped involuntarily in shock

    The worst seem to be middle aged males. I wonder if it's all those fitbits? They can't bear to risk losing 0.004 seconds by giving an old lady 2 metres' grace space just because of some pedestrian cluttering their racetrack.
    The common factor is surely testosterone. Any hard vigorous exercise - running, cycling, weight training, hate-fucking the neighbour’s teenage daughter while laughing like a pirate, er, jogging - will amp up yer testosterone. So you become aggressive. Rudely so

    You can see it in the cycling twats trying to mow down young mums with strollers. Excess testosterone oozing out of the Lycra
    Hmm. *considers the hypothesis* Ah, but what about lazy ***ts of car drivers? *light dawns* They're using their cars as testosterone substitutes. The hypothesis is corroborated by further evidence ...
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Hill is pretty Republican friendly.

    Georgia deals critical blow to Trump’s kingmaker status
    https://thehill.com/news/campaign/3501677-georgia-deals-critical-blow-to-trumps-kingmaker-status/

    Might be nothing, but there are a few more straws in the wind. I don’t think another Trump nomination is anywhere near inevitable, even though he is probably still favourite.

    Kemp didn't just win, he absolutely smashed Purdue too.

    The most interesting thing about the Georgia race? That Mike Pence and Arizona Governor Ducey went out to stump for Kemp. It's a real indication that Trump's influence is not quite what it was: simply, more senior Republicans are willing to step out of line now, in a way they weren't a year ago.

    Ron DeSantis remains the one to watch: he's Trumpian, without being Trump. But would he stand against Trump in the primaries?
    Didn’t Trump recently hint that the Jan 6 plans to lynch Pence were “kind of OK”?

    That would focus your mind on alternatives to Trump, If you are Mike Pence
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,283
    edited May 2022

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    It's also one of the very few ways that cyclists, as cyclists, are able to break the law. So relative to other ways of them breaking the law it's quite significant.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,923
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
    Don't start me on runners - includinbg an incident when one just ran through an elderlyt lady and her dog as if he was Mr ****ing Hyde from the Stevenson novel. She only survived multiple fractures by cowering into the wall. And this was at the height of the worst lockdown. I was almost sorry he didn't trip over the leash and take out his teeth on the kerb.

    I';ve had one try to squeeze into a narrow space between me and the wall and risk pushing me into the traffic without warning, and then take offence and square up when I yelped involuntarily in shock

    The worst seem to be middle aged males. I wonder if it's all those fitbits? They can't bear to risk losing 0.004 seconds by giving an old lady 2 metres' grace space just because of some pedestrian cluttering their racetrack.
    Last incident I had was two 20-something women jogging along the pavement - nice and wide, plenty of room for three if you just made the tiniest concession. But no - just ran right into me and knocked me hard enough that I almost fell into the road. Didn't stop or even look back.

    If they knew me I could understand it. But...

    On a possibly related note - I've noticed over the past few years it's become more common for people walking with their friends to give zero f**ks about making room for people walking towards them. Like, 'we absolutely need to walk side-by-side - you can shift and walk in the gutter'.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,959
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Harvard Psycology Professor Steven Pinker’s book ‘Rationality’, came up with the statistic that more Americans die every year in plane crashes, than in car crashes - if all you do is watch is the national news networks and count the deaths. A significant number surveyed by pollsters agree.

    The reality is a difference of two orders of magnitude, and three orders of magnitude if you ignore recreational aviation. More than 100 people die in car crashes, every day in the US.
    Almost as many Americans died in car crashes in each year during the Vietnam War than died in the entire Vietnam War.
    There are an extraordinary number of road deaths in the US every year - more than 40,000 last year. That's the equivalent of a small parliamentary constituency dying on the roads every year.
    And a similar number of gun deaths. Indeed more people have died of gunshots in the USA in the last 4 decades than in all the US wars since independence.

    I believe drug overdoses, mostly opiates beat road traffic and gun deaths combined.

    America is a very strange society to tolerate this.
    Drug deaths are about twice road deaths, which are about twice firearm deaths.

    Of course a fair number of the firearm deaths are drug related (one way or another) too.
    No, there are about 40 000 gun deaths too. Your figures may be for gun homicides, there are a little more than the same number of gun suicides too.
    You are absolutely correct: accidents + suicides + homicides - 45,000 in the US in 2019, that's worse than road deaths (albeit only marginally.)
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited May 2022
    Leon said:

    The paseo at Preveza (I don’t know what they call the mass evening walk in Greece). It really is one of the hidden gems of the Med.




    HARD RECOMMEND

    It’s nothing amazing. There are no famous sights. Just a long waterfront and an adorable old town. Not that many tourists but a lot of boaty people. Endless tavernas by the lapping waves. Good fish restaurants. That’s it

    But what more do you need?

    βόλτα, vólta is the walk. Dunno where they get it from, doesn't look very Greek in origin (the word, not the thing)
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955
    ohnotnow said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
    Don't start me on runners - includinbg an incident when one just ran through an elderlyt lady and her dog as if he was Mr ****ing Hyde from the Stevenson novel. She only survived multiple fractures by cowering into the wall. And this was at the height of the worst lockdown. I was almost sorry he didn't trip over the leash and take out his teeth on the kerb.

    I';ve had one try to squeeze into a narrow space between me and the wall and risk pushing me into the traffic without warning, and then take offence and square up when I yelped involuntarily in shock

    The worst seem to be middle aged males. I wonder if it's all those fitbits? They can't bear to risk losing 0.004 seconds by giving an old lady 2 metres' grace space just because of some pedestrian cluttering their racetrack.
    Last incident I had was two 20-something women jogging along the pavement - nice and wide, plenty of room for three if you just made the tiniest concession. But no - just ran right into me and knocked me hard enough that I almost fell into the road. Didn't stop or even look back.

    If they knew me I could understand it. But...

    On a possibly related note - I've noticed over the past few years it's become more common for people walking with their friends to give zero f**ks about making room for people walking towards them. Like, 'we absolutely need to walk side-by-side - you can shift and walk in the gutter'.
    Richard Ashcroft made a career out of just that 25 years ago.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341
    UK opens national security probe into 2021 sale of local wafer fab to Chinese company
    Government has power to unwind transactions such as sale of Newport facility to China-controlled Nexperia

    https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/26/security_probe_nexperia_sale/
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Hill is pretty Republican friendly.

    Georgia deals critical blow to Trump’s kingmaker status
    https://thehill.com/news/campaign/3501677-georgia-deals-critical-blow-to-trumps-kingmaker-status/

    Might be nothing, but there are a few more straws in the wind. I don’t think another Trump nomination is anywhere near inevitable, even though he is probably still favourite.

    Kemp didn't just win, he absolutely smashed Purdue too.

    The most interesting thing about the Georgia race? That Mike Pence and Arizona Governor Ducey went out to stump for Kemp. It's a real indication that Trump's influence is not quite what it was: simply, more senior Republicans are willing to step out of line now, in a way they weren't a year ago.

    Ron DeSantis remains the one to watch: he's Trumpian, without being Trump. But would he stand against Trump in the primaries?
    Didn’t Trump recently hint that the Jan 6 plans to lynch Pence were “kind of OK”?

    That would focus your mind on alternatives to Trump, If you are Mike Pence
    One would hope even without those comments Pence knows Trump's mind well enough after 4 years to know that was likely to be Trump's opinion.

    Is it too much to hope if Trump stands Pence will eviscerate him?
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    There's some ragin' Nats out there:

    Let’s be clear about what has just happened in Edinburgh:

    Labour has seized control of the council with 13 of 63 councillors.

    Only 11 of their own councillors voted in favour of this + 12 Lib Dems.

    Why could this happen anyway?
    Because Labour chose to give positions to Tories.


    https://twitter.com/TanjaBueltmann/status/1529787678635528195

    Because working with the Toreeees is always evil - except when the SNP do it.....

    I'm not a Green/SNP ultra but this is a complete disaster for those of us who engage in the extreme sport "cycling about in Edinburgh".

    The Tories are rabidly pro-driver here. It's honestly impossible to find a reason to vote for the neanderthals either on a national or local basis - everything is a culture war. I think they associate bikes with wokeists.
    I am no fan of the democratic abomination where a tiny group of 13 Labour councillors can control a council comprised of 63 elected members, but in what respect is the new Labour minority administration “a complete disaster” for cyclists? I got the impression that Scottish Labour is quite pro-cycling? Or are the Edinburgh Labourites uncharacteristically pro-car?

    (Incidentally, the centre-right are very pro-cycling in many European countries, so the hostility of the ones on the big island is a bit of a mystery. Surely we ought to be encouraging healthy and cheap activities? Makes our cities cleaner and more pleasant to live in. Reduces heart-lung and obesity catastrophe. Is fun!! Or ought to be…)
    If they could ban cyclists in Edinburgh it would considerably increase my safety and life expectancy and that of all other pedestrians.
    Seems unlikely.

    'Of around 400 pedestrians killed in collisions in the UK each year, about 2.5 involve a bicycle. Put it another way: more than 99% of pedestrian collision deaths in this country involve a motorised vehicle.'

    As you push them back into their cars you many well be increasing your own risk.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/08/killer-cyclists-roads-bikes-pedestrian-collision-deaths-britain
    Very good point.

    It is astonishing to witness the media prominence given to (relatively rare) rail, maritime and aviation loss of life and life-changing disability injuries whereas the literally daily carnage caused by motor vehicles gets a brief mention on page 32, if you’re lucky.
    Harvard Psycology Professor Steven Pinker’s book ‘Rationality’, came up with the statistic that more Americans die every year in plane crashes, than in car crashes - if all you do is watch is the national news networks and count the deaths. A significant number surveyed by pollsters agree.

    The reality is a difference of two orders of magnitude, and three orders of magnitude if you ignore recreational aviation. More than 100 people die in car crashes, every day in the US.
    Almost as many Americans died in car crashes in each year during the Vietnam War than died in the entire Vietnam War.
    There are an extraordinary number of road deaths in the US every year - more than 40,000 last year. That's the equivalent of a small parliamentary constituency dying on the roads every year.
    And a similar number of gun deaths. Indeed more people have died of gunshots in the USA in the last 4 decades than in all the US wars since independence.

    I believe drug overdoses, mostly opiates beat road traffic and gun deaths combined.

    America is a very strange society to tolerate this.
    Drug deaths are about twice road deaths, which are about twice firearm deaths.

    Of course a fair number of the firearm deaths are drug related (one way or another) too.
    No, there are about 40 000 gun deaths too. Your figures may be for gun homicides, there are a little more than the same number of gun suicides too.
    You are absolutely correct: accidents + suicides + homicides - 45,000 in the US in 2019, that's worse than road deaths (albeit only marginally.)
    Suicides is fungible though, their overall rate is pretty much ours, we just do it differently. You can leave them out if "what external dangers should I rationally be most fearful of" is the underlying question.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    It's also one of the very few ways that cyclists, as cyclists, are able to break the law. So relative to other ways of them breaking the law it's quite significant.
    You’ve never been done for speeding on your bike? @Dura_Ace wouldn’t be impressed.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
    Don't start me on runners - includinbg an incident when one just ran through an elderlyt lady and her dog as if he was Mr ****ing Hyde from the Stevenson novel. She only survived multiple fractures by cowering into the wall. And this was at the height of the worst lockdown. I was almost sorry he didn't trip over the leash and take out his teeth on the kerb.

    I';ve had one try to squeeze into a narrow space between me and the wall and risk pushing me into the traffic without warning, and then take offence and square up when I yelped involuntarily in shock

    The worst seem to be middle aged males. I wonder if it's all those fitbits? They can't bear to risk losing 0.004 seconds by giving an old lady 2 metres' grace space just because of some pedestrian cluttering their racetrack.
    The common factor is surely testosterone. Any hard vigorous exercise - running, cycling, weight training, hate-fucking the neighbour’s teenage daughter while laughing like a pirate, er, jogging - will amp up yer testosterone. So you become aggressive. Rudely so

    You can see it in the cycling twats trying to mow down young mums with strollers. Excess testosterone oozing out of the Lycra
    Hmm. *considers the hypothesis* Ah, but what about lazy ***ts of car drivers? *light dawns* They're using their cars as testosterone substitutes. The hypothesis is corroborated by further evidence ...
    I remember a study that showed that driving stimulates the most primitive, reptilian part of the brain. It arouses atavistic emotions. This is why people get so angry and aggressive when driving

    Perhaps it is something to do with rapid movement and rivals also moving fast: that tickles our buried hunter instinct, you have to be the one that gets the prey first. Perhaps? We did spend 300,000 years (or whatever) running hard and fast across the African plains, looking for the gazelle to kill

    Certainly I have seen normally peaceable people turn into raving lunatics behind the wheel. Shouting and cussing. It can also bring out racism you would never normally see from apparently liberal types

  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,603
    Some PBers may recall that 27 days ago I phoned my GP surgery to ask for an appointment. Well today was the day, and I received a call from the GP. After a discussion of my symptoms he then arranged for an in-person appointment for me. I was expecting another long wait, but the appointment was actually this afternoon. So I've been, seen him, had the diagnosis confirmed and received the advice I needed. So a long wait initially, but then things kicked into gear.

    They've still got mask wearing and social distancing rules at the surgery, btw.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Hill is pretty Republican friendly.

    Georgia deals critical blow to Trump’s kingmaker status
    https://thehill.com/news/campaign/3501677-georgia-deals-critical-blow-to-trumps-kingmaker-status/

    Might be nothing, but there are a few more straws in the wind. I don’t think another Trump nomination is anywhere near inevitable, even though he is probably still favourite.

    Kemp didn't just win, he absolutely smashed Purdue too.

    The most interesting thing about the Georgia race? That Mike Pence and Arizona Governor Ducey went out to stump for Kemp. It's a real indication that Trump's influence is not quite what it was: simply, more senior Republicans are willing to step out of line now, in a way they weren't a year ago.

    Ron DeSantis remains the one to watch: he's Trumpian, without being Trump. But would he stand against Trump in the primaries?
    Didn’t Trump recently hint that the Jan 6 plans to lynch Pence were “kind of OK”?

    That would focus your mind on alternatives to Trump, If you are Mike Pence
    One would hope even without those comments Pence knows Trump's mind well enough after 4 years to know that was likely to be Trump's opinion.

    Is it too much to hope if Trump stands Pence will eviscerate him?
    I don't even mind if that's literal
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    It's also one of the very few ways that cyclists, as cyclists, are able to break the law. So relative to other ways of them breaking the law it's quite significant.
    You’ve never been done for speeding on your bike? @Dura_Ace wouldn’t be impressed.
    Can't happen, speed limits is for motors.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,283
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    It's also one of the very few ways that cyclists, as cyclists, are able to break the law. So relative to other ways of them breaking the law it's quite significant.
    You’ve never been done for speeding on your bike? @Dura_Ace wouldn’t be impressed.
    LOL I've always pedalled like f**k when it comes to those motion sensor speed signs but sadly not troubled them to date. When on a Boris bike I think even getting to 0.3x the speed limit would be an achievement.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955
    edited May 2022
    Husband of one of the teachers killed in Uvalde has died of a heart attack.
    Four children.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    It's also one of the very few ways that cyclists, as cyclists, are able to break the law. So relative to other ways of them breaking the law it's quite significant.
    You’ve never been done for speeding on your bike? @Dura_Ace wouldn’t be impressed.
    Can't happen, speed limits is for motors.
    I've triggered a speed camera on a bike doing 40 in a 30. I'm not proud of that, honest.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    It's also one of the very few ways that cyclists, as cyclists, are able to break the law. So relative to other ways of them breaking the law it's quite significant.
    You’ve never been done for speeding on your bike? @Dura_Ace wouldn’t be impressed.
    LOL I've always pedalled like f**k when it comes to those motion sensor speed signs but sadly not troubled them to date. When on a Boris bike I think even getting to 0.3x the speed limit would be an achievement.
    Easiest place I know to speed on a bike is Dundas Street in Edinburgh. Wide road, 20mph limit, steepish downhill.

    Time it well and you might even get a green light on the crossroads and so live to tell the tale.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    UK opens national security probe into 2021 sale of local wafer fab to Chinese company
    Government has power to unwind transactions such as sale of Newport facility to China-controlled Nexperia

    https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/26/security_probe_nexperia_sale/

    I questioned this at the time, but I was told this was old boring tech that nobody cares about.

    I’m all for a hands-on industrial strategy, but there is merit in a stable environment for investors too, you know.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    It's also one of the very few ways that cyclists, as cyclists, are able to break the law. So relative to other ways of them breaking the law it's quite significant.
    You’ve never been done for speeding on your bike? @Dura_Ace wouldn’t be impressed.
    Can't happen, speed limits is for motors.
    I've triggered a speed camera on a bike doing 40 in a 30. I'm not proud of that, honest.
    Easier to do on flatlands, presumably.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    The paseo at Preveza (I don’t know what they call the mass evening walk in Greece). It really is one of the hidden gems of the Med.




    HARD RECOMMEND

    It’s nothing amazing. There are no famous sights. Just a long waterfront and an adorable old town. Not that many tourists but a lot of boaty people. Endless tavernas by the lapping waves. Good fish restaurants. That’s it

    But what more do you need?

    βόλτα, vólta is the walk. Dunno where they get it from, doesn't look very Greek in origin (the word, not the thing)
    It is a tradition right around the Med: the Volta, the Paseo, the Passeggiata. I kinda love it, it feels healthy and civilised at the same time. Walk up and down, nod politely to the neighbours, stop and gossip with friends, have a sorbet or two. Gentle but steady physical activity combined with socialisation. Ideal

    I suppose climate is crucial to this tradition, but we used to have a form of it in Britain: eg Rotten Row in Hyde Park, everyone used to parade up and down around 5pm, showing off their horses and broughams. A promenade! We even had a word for it. All gone now
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,893
    edited May 2022
    I don't run red lights on my bike. I much prefer holding up all the climate-killing cars - filter through to the cycle box, take a photo of anyone intruding into it (3 points). Set off slowly from the line, taking the primary position to keep myself safe.

    Speed limit is 20mph in Edinburgh. I uphold the law.

    #modelcitizen
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    Some PBers may recall that 27 days ago I phoned my GP surgery to ask for an appointment. Well today was the day, and I received a call from the GP. After a discussion of my symptoms he then arranged for an in-person appointment for me. I was expecting another long wait, but the appointment was actually this afternoon. So I've been, seen him, had the diagnosis confirmed and received the advice I needed. So a long wait initially, but then things kicked into gear.

    They've still got mask wearing and social distancing rules at the surgery, btw.

    Hang on, you waited 27 days for a remote appointment with a GP?

    Envy of the world, obviously.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104
    Fishing said:

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    So is double parking, or parking on yellow lines when they're in operation, but virtually all drivers do it at some point.
    Also, the main beneficiaries of cyclists running red lights are motorists, who will not be stuck behind the slowly-accelerating bike when the light turns green - and so more cars will be able to get through the light before it changes again. So they are really the last people who should be complaining.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Farooq said:

    Anyone who spends any time on the road will see both drivers and cyclists jumping red lights. It's extremely common.

    But they are done in different ways. Car drivers often speed up to try to go through on amber (and go through on red). Cyclists are more likely to slow down and go through a light that's long red.

    I estimate I see more of the cars, doing it.

    Cycling through a red light is breaking the law, but only in a limited and specific way, a position that I am sure all PB Tories can support.
    It's also one of the very few ways that cyclists, as cyclists, are able to break the law. So relative to other ways of them breaking the law it's quite significant.
    You’ve never been done for speeding on your bike? @Dura_Ace wouldn’t be impressed.
    Can't happen, speed limits is for motors.
    I've triggered a speed camera on a bike doing 40 in a 30. I'm not proud of that, honest.
    Easier to do on flatlands, presumably.
    Not in the Flatlands! I definitely can't do 800W.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,283
    Eabhal said:

    I don't run red lights on my bike. I much prefer holding up all the climate-killing cars.

    Speed limit is 20mph in Edinburgh. I uphold the law.

    #modelcitizen

    In London I have to say that there are now a *lot* of cycle lanes. They have butchered the roads to put them in (you can't go east to the City on the Embankment in a car any more - it is just static) but as a cyclist I love them. Means that car holding up is limited. I always do plonk myself in front of cars at traffic lights, however, if they are stopped on the bike bit.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,678
    ohnotnow said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
    Don't start me on runners - includinbg an incident when one just ran through an elderlyt lady and her dog as if he was Mr ****ing Hyde from the Stevenson novel. She only survived multiple fractures by cowering into the wall. And this was at the height of the worst lockdown. I was almost sorry he didn't trip over the leash and take out his teeth on the kerb.

    I';ve had one try to squeeze into a narrow space between me and the wall and risk pushing me into the traffic without warning, and then take offence and square up when I yelped involuntarily in shock

    The worst seem to be middle aged males. I wonder if it's all those fitbits? They can't bear to risk losing 0.004 seconds by giving an old lady 2 metres' grace space just because of some pedestrian cluttering their racetrack.
    Last incident I had was two 20-something women jogging along the pavement - nice and wide, plenty of room for three if you just made the tiniest concession. But no - just ran right into me and knocked me hard enough that I almost fell into the road. Didn't stop or even look back.

    If they knew me I could understand it. But...

    On a possibly related note - I've noticed over the past few years it's become more common for people walking with their friends to give zero f**ks about making room for people walking towards them. Like, 'we absolutely need to walk side-by-side - you can shift and walk in the gutter'.
    N ow that is just plain frightening, that incident with the 2 women.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    TOPPING said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't run red lights on my bike. I much prefer holding up all the climate-killing cars.

    Speed limit is 20mph in Edinburgh. I uphold the law.

    #modelcitizen

    In London I have to say that there are now a *lot* of cycle lanes. They have butchered the roads to put them in (you can't go east to the City on the Embankment in a car any more - it is just static) but as a cyclist I love them. Means that car holding up is limited. I always do plonk myself in front of cars at traffic lights, however, if they are stopped on the bike bit.
    Much safer to make yourself visible like that so that you don't get chopped up, even if it annoys the odd motorist.

    I don't jump red lights unless they are an on-demand control with an insufficiently sensitive coil. I do wonder what you are meant to do in that situation if there are no cars. Get off and walk through the light?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,104
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
    Don't start me on runners - includinbg an incident when one just ran through an elderlyt lady and her dog as if he was Mr ****ing Hyde from the Stevenson novel. She only survived multiple fractures by cowering into the wall. And this was at the height of the worst lockdown. I was almost sorry he didn't trip over the leash and take out his teeth on the kerb.

    I';ve had one try to squeeze into a narrow space between me and the wall and risk pushing me into the traffic without warning, and then take offence and square up when I yelped involuntarily in shock

    The worst seem to be middle aged males. I wonder if it's all those fitbits? They can't bear to risk losing 0.004 seconds by giving an old lady 2 metres' grace space just because of some pedestrian cluttering their racetrack.
    Last incident I had was two 20-something women jogging along the pavement - nice and wide, plenty of room for three if you just made the tiniest concession. But no - just ran right into me and knocked me hard enough that I almost fell into the road. Didn't stop or even look back.

    If they knew me I could understand it. But...

    On a possibly related note - I've noticed over the past few years it's become more common for people walking with their friends to give zero f**ks about making room for people walking towards them. Like, 'we absolutely need to walk side-by-side - you can shift and walk in the gutter'.
    N ow that is just plain frightening, that incident with the 2 women.
    I'm sure something similar happened to Leon.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,192

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    We haven’t discussed the very minor brouhaha about M&S pulling out of town centres in favour of out-of-town malls.

    Blame anti-parking local governments.

    Not seen it but am reminded of this:-

    A much bigger blow for the women was the recent closure of Marks & Spencer. ‘There’s nothing nice here any more,’ ‘Nowhere to get something special – nowhere for presents,’ ‘Nowhere with good-quality things – nice knickers.’ I was struck by the powerful impact of the loss of M&S as the pollster Peter Kellner had sent me an interesting article a few months before, pointing out how M&S store closures in small towns could be mapped closely to the Brexit-voting seats that Labour lost. He suggested that we might think of M&S as the canary in the mine, an early prediction of future demise in towns that have lost their sense of purpose.
    Beyond the Red Wall. Deborah Mattinson.
    M&S is one of the best things about the UK, and so I think Kellner’s analysis is very savvy.

    I find the issue interesting as Britain really really should try to avoid the US model of dead town and nearby strip mall.
    Is it though? You sound like some Brexit voters with their nostalgia glasses on all the time.
    I’m thinking more of the food.

    But I do know people who rely on M&S for clothings basics. They tend to be poorer and maybe older, but M&S delivers quality.
    I'm still wondering why I can't get a food delivery from M&S. It's quite annoying.
    Ocado....
    Ocado don't deliver in Scotland sadly.
    I wonder what happened to this?

    MARKS & Spencer shoppers can now get groceries delivered to their doors in 30 minutes from 142 of the supermarket's branches - including ones in Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow. The expanded delivery service with Deliveroo, which launched yesterday, comes ahead of its £750million deal with Ocado set to start in September. - 5 May 2020
    Great news! My closest M&S is 30 miles away. A nice gentle workout for the Deliveroo rider.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    ohnotnow said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    I see it daily in Leicester.
    Same here in Glasgow. I've had more near-knocked-off-my-feet incidents with cyclists of late than any bother with cars (more serious as those are likely to be). Just ploughing through pedestrian crossings when the green man is showing, jumping up onto pavements at speed and expecting pedestrians to make way, etc.

    I've also been nearly knocked off my feet a few times by aggressive joggers too.

    I'm beginning to think there are just a lot of w*nkers out there.
    Don't start me on runners - includinbg an incident when one just ran through an elderlyt lady and her dog as if he was Mr ****ing Hyde from the Stevenson novel. She only survived multiple fractures by cowering into the wall. And this was at the height of the worst lockdown. I was almost sorry he didn't trip over the leash and take out his teeth on the kerb.

    I';ve had one try to squeeze into a narrow space between me and the wall and risk pushing me into the traffic without warning, and then take offence and square up when I yelped involuntarily in shock

    The worst seem to be middle aged males. I wonder if it's all those fitbits? They can't bear to risk losing 0.004 seconds by giving an old lady 2 metres' grace space just because of some pedestrian cluttering their racetrack.
    Last incident I had was two 20-something women jogging along the pavement - nice and wide, plenty of room for three if you just made the tiniest concession. But no - just ran right into me and knocked me hard enough that I almost fell into the road. Didn't stop or even look back.

    If they knew me I could understand it. But...

    On a possibly related note - I've noticed over the past few years it's become more common for people walking with their friends to give zero f**ks about making room for people walking towards them. Like, 'we absolutely need to walk side-by-side - you can shift and walk in the gutter'.
    It does feel that way, I wondered if I am just imagining it. Possibly because in early days of Covid people would go ridiculously in the other direction and give way more space than needed.

    It is one of those things that is pretty infuriating - at least angle your body to show willing.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341
    New thread.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Interesting from Biden

    "The Second Amendment is “not absolute”, Joe Biden said on Wednesday as he called for new restrictions on gun ownership in the wake of a school shooting that killed 21 people.

    The US president warned that “enough is enough” and he will move to stop the gun “carnage” happening across the United States.

    “When in God's name will we do what needs to be done to, if not completely stop, fundamentally change the amount of the carnage that goes on in this country?” he asked.

    Mr Biden said that when the Second Amendment was made, people “couldn’t own a cannon” or other “certain kinds of weapons”.

    “There’s just always been limitations,” he added. "

    Was therr actually a stipulation against cannons? Mind you it is the right to 'bear arms' and you can't really bear a cannon.
    Not in the actual amendment nor afaics in case law. God what a mess the whole thing is.
    Personally (PB klaxon alert) I feel it's a feature not a bug. They wrote the right to bear arms into their consitution so that you could rebel against an overmighty Government. The bigger and more deadly the guns, the greater the threat to the Government. That's still the case; of course the US Government doesn't want 'everyone and their grandma packing', because it is threat to their authority. They will try to take peoples' guns away; it will fail politically (though probably sales of those weapons will spike) and so the world turns.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,501
    edited May 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic that's a great LibDem message. Did 300 Cons MPs really vote against a windfall tax last week?!

    They voted against a Labour motion, at an Opposition Day debate.
    Ah. Thanks.
    Motion is a PR Stunt, basically.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,501
    edited May 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    What it is about London cyclists that they uniquely believe they have the right to get through red lights? It doesn't happen anywhere else in the UK as far as I know.

    Various reasons - some reasonable, some not.

    One is that too many get killed or injured by left hooks by inattentive drivers. That is a *real* London problem, that needs to be largely designed out.

    OTOH steaming through ped crossings on red is not reasonable.

    There is still a lot of work to do on unwinding of traffic modes.
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