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This conclusion from Opinium’s Curtis must be right – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    This won’t change anything, just as Sandy Hook didn’t. In America, women are less important than babies, and babies are less important than guns, and money is more important than all of it combined.
    https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1529351599189008384

    Even moderate(ish) Republican Mitt Romney….

    https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/1529231584217468928
    Grief overwhelms the soul. Children slaughtered. Lives extinguished. Parents’ hearts wrenched. Incomprehensible. I offer prayer and condolence but know that it is grossly inadequate. We must find answers...

    …. $13.5m in NRA donations.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    This all seems like Fair Comment from the BoJo the Bozzmeister


    "Boris Johnson is responding to Keir Starmer.

    He says that during Covid Starmer was “sniping from the sidelines and veering from one position to the next”.

    In his response today, Starmer failed to show “common sense”, he claims. He says Starmer failed to appreciate the context of what happened. He says the boundaries between work and socialisting became blurred.

    He accuses Starmer of being “sanctimonious”, and he descibes him as a “gaseous Zeppelin”, saying his pomposity has been punctured.

    He goes on:

    Sir Beer Korma is currently failing to hold himself to the same high standards he demanded of me.

    Johnson says Starmer said that Johnson should resign when he was being investigated by the police. But Starmer is being investigated by the police, and he has not resigned.

    He urges Starmer to apologise"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/may/25/partygate-live-sue-gray-report-published-boris-johnson-downing-street-no-10-drinking

    Starmer IS a sanctimonious prick. He also wanted to cancel British democracy. Well said, Boris Bojo "Boz-boz" The Bozzington Bozzles Johnson, Bozmeister General

    Did Johnson actually say that or have you made it up?
    He said it. And, I confess, I laughed out loud

    It's the sheer chutzpah of delivering a clever pun (tho not one he made himself) during THIS most solemn of occasions, what an insult to the 7 trillion dead of plague, blah blah whatever
    It's puerile ffs. Shape up.
    Of all the humourless pricks I expected not to laugh at Boris's deft and superbly funny pun, you are the humourless-est, and the prick-est, so thanks for fulfilling my priors
    ‘Deft and superbly funny’ ….

    AKA pretty lame piece of nose thumbing. It might raise a smile if you’d said it; pitiful from a prime minister.
    "Deft and superbly funny" was me trolling PB's very own Pomposity-Monger @kinabalu

    "Sir Beer Korma" IS a good pun, tho. The measure of it is: would it make a more memorable Sun front page? And yes, it would. It raises a smile and maybe a chuckle

    You need the "Sir" bit tho. That's the funny part. The contrast between the Sir - why the F does this supercilious idiot Starmer have a fucking knighthood anyway, and for what? - and the Beer and Korma is the essence of the tension and thus the humour
    Yes, hilarious piece of wit from a PM. Sure.

    I preferred Bryant’s line about self-entitled narcissists.

    Or alternatively one of @ydoethur ’s less successful efforts.
    Chris Bryant of selfie-in-my-underpants fame? Accusing others of narcissism?

    Interesting move
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,360

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    This all seems like Fair Comment from the BoJo the Bozzmeister


    "Boris Johnson is responding to Keir Starmer.

    He says that during Covid Starmer was “sniping from the sidelines and veering from one position to the next”.

    In his response today, Starmer failed to show “common sense”, he claims. He says Starmer failed to appreciate the context of what happened. He says the boundaries between work and socialisting became blurred.

    He accuses Starmer of being “sanctimonious”, and he descibes him as a “gaseous Zeppelin”, saying his pomposity has been punctured.

    He goes on:

    Sir Beer Korma is currently failing to hold himself to the same high standards he demanded of me.

    Johnson says Starmer said that Johnson should resign when he was being investigated by the police. But Starmer is being investigated by the police, and he has not resigned.

    He urges Starmer to apologise"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/may/25/partygate-live-sue-gray-report-published-boris-johnson-downing-street-no-10-drinking

    Starmer IS a sanctimonious prick. He also wanted to cancel British democracy. Well said, Boris Bojo "Boz-boz" The Bozzington Bozzles Johnson, Bozmeister General

    Did Johnson actually say that or have you made it up?
    He said it. And, I confess, I laughed out loud

    It's the sheer chutzpah of delivering a clever pun (tho not one he made himself) during THIS most solemn of occasions, what an insult to the 7 trillion dead of plague, blah blah whatever
    It's puerile ffs. Shape up.
    Of all the humourless pricks I expected not to laugh at Boris's deft and superbly funny pun, you are the humourless-est, and the prick-est, so thanks for fulfilling my priors
    ‘Deft and superbly funny’ ….

    AKA pretty lame piece of nose thumbing. It might raise a smile if you’d said it; pitiful from a prime minister.
    "Deft and superbly funny" was me trolling PB's very own Pomposity-Monger @kinabalu

    "Sir Beer Korma" IS a good pun, tho. The measure of it is: would it make a more memorable Sun front page? And yes, it would. It raises a smile and maybe a chuckle

    You need the "Sir" bit tho. That's the funny part. The contrast between the Sir - why the F does this supercilious idiot Starmer have a fucking knighthood anyway, and for what? - and the Beer and Korma is the essence of the tension and thus the humour
    I chuckled - I can imagine what the meeting was like where they came up with that line.

    Here is the problem - context. Had that been thrown out during PMQ knockabout then it would have been great! But this was Bonzo's humble apology. In response to Starmer pointing out that whilst he hasn't been found to break any rules he will do the right thing and resign if the police find otherwise.

    So having decided to be humble and say sorry, all Bonzo can do is call him "Sir Beer Korma" because actually all this is Starmer's fault actually and I'm the victim here.
    I could understand why the Boris "isn't he a good laugh" Johnson act won him the Mayor of London elections, but what I find baffling about his contemporary success with it is that it seems to appeal so strongly to the oldies, who I would have thought would be less approving of this sort of carry on.

    One word that particularly struck me earlier was "duty". Johnson said he saw it as his duty to attend gatherings that broke Covid regulations to say goodbye to departing staff. We're about to celebrate 70 years of the Queen's dutiful service to the nation as Head of State.

    It's the sort of contrast that I'd expect to play badly among the older generation. And yet it doesn't.

    It's this sort of thing that makes me think that those predicting Johnson's defeat at the next election are guilty of projecting their own desires onto the electorate. There's something about Boris that defies the normal rules of politics.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    You fired someone for having been drunk and behind the wheel. So you already know where are situations where drinking and work shouldn't mix. Don't condemn others for having similar view.
    Absolutely, I stand by that. Being behind the wheel and drinking don't mix - and that's true whether working or not working.

    So long as you're not driving, having dinner and drinking absolutely can mix, whether that be at home, or Starmer, or Johnson.
    It's not just driving though, is it? Would you be happy if your kids' teacher was rat-arsed in the classroom? Do you want a gas engineer having a liquid lunch before tackling your boiler?
    There are quite sensible views that revolve around not drinking on the job. It feels to me that the business of government is serious enough to warrant a view against drinking on the job. It's not a wildly puritan view to think so.
    Rat arsed? No, that's a safety issue.

    If the gas engineer is within legal limits and perfectly safe to tackle the boiler then I couldn't give less of a shit at what he or she had for lunch. If OTOH its a safety issue, then that is different, just like with driving.

    I completely and 100% disagree that drinking on the job is not acceptable for "serious" jobs, quite the opposite in fact.
    Winston Churchill says hi

    As do a trillion actors, writers, artists, sculptors, dancers. For some of them, booze - or other intoxicants - can actually improve the work. Byron insisted he did his best work "with a light champagne hangover" and a hooker nearby, or, as he put it, more politely:

    There's a whore on my right
    For I rhyme best at night
    When a C*nt is tied close to my inkstand
    Is that really "more politely"?

    Aristos can get away with anything, of course.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    You fired someone for having been drunk and behind the wheel. So you already know where are situations where drinking and work shouldn't mix. Don't condemn others for having similar view.
    Absolutely, I stand by that. Being behind the wheel and drinking don't mix - and that's true whether working or not working.

    So long as you're not driving, having dinner and drinking absolutely can mix, whether that be at home, or Starmer, or Johnson.
    It's not just driving though, is it? Would you be happy if your kids' teacher was rat-arsed in the classroom? Do you want a gas engineer having a liquid lunch before tackling your boiler?
    There are quite sensible views that revolve around not drinking on the job. It feels to me that the business of government is serious enough to warrant a view against drinking on the job. It's not a wildly puritan view to think so.
    Rat arsed? No, that's a safety issue.

    If the gas engineer is within legal limits and perfectly safe to tackle the boiler then I couldn't give less of a shit at what he or she had for lunch. If OTOH its a safety issue, then that is different, just like with driving.

    I completely and 100% disagree that drinking on the job is not acceptable for "serious" jobs, quite the opposite in fact.
    Winston Churchill says hi

    As do a trillion actors, writers, artists, sculptors, dancers. For some of them, booze - or other intoxicants - can actually improve the work. Byron insisted he did his best work "with a light champagne hangover" and a hooker nearby, or, as he put it, more politely:

    There's a whore on my right
    For I rhyme best at night
    When a C*nt is tied close to my inkstand
    Is that really "more politely"?

    Aristos can get away with anything, of course.
    Including, in his case, tupping hundreds of young boys, a thousand Venetian whores, all the children of Lady Harley (“the Harleian Miscellany”) and his own sister, on his honeymoon night, as his new wife slept upstairs
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,584

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    I understand what you mean, but:

    1) Alcohol affects people in many different ways. It make me maudlin; it reduces the inhibitions of others and makes others violent. I certainly noticed the effect a couple of lunchtime pints would have on my work in the afternoon. It did not improve it (admittedly from a low base)...

    2) Many workplaces ban all alcohol; for some, if you are working, you cannot have drunk alcohol for a certain number of hours beforehand. Anecdotally, this is becoming increasingly common, even for roles that are not safety critical.
    1) The liberal thing to do is have the individual responsible for their own actions. If somebody is violent after drinking then they shouldn't be drinking, if somebody is a perfectly responsible and reasonable individual they can be.

    2) That is a puritanical and retrograde step and not something to be encouraged or celebrated.
    1) The problem is that individuals are all too often not responsible for their own actions.

    2) The thinking is this: if some roles are banned from drinking on duty, then all roles should be, from the bottom of the organisation to the top. It seems better than the situation where (say) the bigwigs in their offices have long boozy lunches, but the plebs on the shop floor will get sacked if they had a drink six hours before they started their shift (because of safety issues). One rule for all.

    I'm not saying drinking should be banned in parliament; I'm just wondering if there's a connection between the infamously boozy culture there (is that as bad as made out?) and some of the things that happen. IMO it cannot help.
  • So was that it? All the past six months over that? "Meh" sums it up completely.

    Time to move on from Partygate, Beergate and all these other trivial and puritanical -gates and concentrate on real issues like the Economy.

    And the first thing to do to fix the Economy is the Conservatives should oust Boris Johnson and replace him with someone prepared to trim back the state and cut taxes rather than expand it and raise them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    You fired someone for having been drunk and behind the wheel. So you already know where are situations where drinking and work shouldn't mix. Don't condemn others for having similar view.
    Absolutely, I stand by that. Being behind the wheel and drinking don't mix - and that's true whether working or not working.

    So long as you're not driving, having dinner and drinking absolutely can mix, whether that be at home, or Starmer, or Johnson.
    It's not just driving though, is it? Would you be happy if your kids' teacher was rat-arsed in the classroom? Do you want a gas engineer having a liquid lunch before tackling your boiler?
    There are quite sensible views that revolve around not drinking on the job. It feels to me that the business of government is serious enough to warrant a view against drinking on the job. It's not a wildly puritan view to think so.
    Rat arsed? No, that's a safety issue.

    If the gas engineer is within legal limits and perfectly safe to tackle the boiler then I couldn't give less of a shit at what he or she had for lunch. If OTOH its a safety issue, then that is different, just like with driving.

    I completely and 100% disagree that drinking on the job is not acceptable for "serious" jobs, quite the opposite in fact.
    Winston Churchill says hi

    As do a trillion actors, writers, artists, sculptors, dancers. For some of them, booze - or other intoxicants - can actually improve the work. Byron insisted he did his best work "with a light champagne hangover" and a hooker nearby, or, as he put it, more politely:

    There's a whore on my right
    For I rhyme best at night
    When a C*nt is tied close to my inkstand
    Is that really "more politely"?

    Aristos can get away with anything, of course.
    Including, in his case, tupping hundreds of young boys, a thousand Venetian whores, all the children of Lady Harley (“the Harleian Miscellany”) and his own sister, on his honeymoon night, as his new wife slept upstairs
    He posted here a while back under the name "Byronic". You'd have got along well with him.
    I never seem to be around when these more interesting posters are here. I feel like I am constantly missing the PB Golden Age
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    This all seems like Fair Comment from the BoJo the Bozzmeister


    "Boris Johnson is responding to Keir Starmer.

    He says that during Covid Starmer was “sniping from the sidelines and veering from one position to the next”.

    In his response today, Starmer failed to show “common sense”, he claims. He says Starmer failed to appreciate the context of what happened. He says the boundaries between work and socialisting became blurred.

    He accuses Starmer of being “sanctimonious”, and he descibes him as a “gaseous Zeppelin”, saying his pomposity has been punctured.

    He goes on:

    Sir Beer Korma is currently failing to hold himself to the same high standards he demanded of me.

    Johnson says Starmer said that Johnson should resign when he was being investigated by the police. But Starmer is being investigated by the police, and he has not resigned.

    He urges Starmer to apologise"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/may/25/partygate-live-sue-gray-report-published-boris-johnson-downing-street-no-10-drinking

    Starmer IS a sanctimonious prick. He also wanted to cancel British democracy. Well said, Boris Bojo "Boz-boz" The Bozzington Bozzles Johnson, Bozmeister General

    Did Johnson actually say that or have you made it up?
    He said it. And, I confess, I laughed out loud

    It's the sheer chutzpah of delivering a clever pun (tho not one he made himself) during THIS most solemn of occasions, what an insult to the 7 trillion dead of plague, blah blah whatever
    It's puerile ffs. Shape up.
    Of all the humourless pricks I expected not to laugh at Boris's deft and superbly funny pun, you are the humourless-est, and the prick-est, so thanks for fulfilling my priors
    ‘Deft and superbly funny’ ….

    AKA pretty lame piece of nose thumbing. It might raise a smile if you’d said it; pitiful from a prime minister.
    "Deft and superbly funny" was me trolling PB's very own Pomposity-Monger @kinabalu

    "Sir Beer Korma" IS a good pun, tho. The measure of it is: would it make a more memorable Sun front page? And yes, it would. It raises a smile and maybe a chuckle

    You need the "Sir" bit tho. That's the funny part. The contrast between the Sir - why the F does this supercilious idiot Starmer have a fucking knighthood anyway, and for what? - and the Beer and Korma is the essence of the tension and thus the humour
    I chuckled - I can imagine what the meeting was like where they came up with that line.

    Here is the problem - context. Had that been thrown out during PMQ knockabout then it would have been great! But this was Bonzo's humble apology. In response to Starmer pointing out that whilst he hasn't been found to break any rules he will do the right thing and resign if the police find otherwise.

    So having decided to be humble and say sorry, all Bonzo can do is call him "Sir Beer Korma" because actually all this is Starmer's fault actually and I'm the victim here.
    I could understand why the Boris "isn't he a good laugh" Johnson act won him the Mayor of London elections, but what I find baffling about his contemporary success with it is that it seems to appeal so strongly to the oldies, who I would have thought would be less approving of this sort of carry on.

    One word that particularly struck me earlier was "duty". Johnson said he saw it as his duty to attend gatherings that broke Covid regulations to say goodbye to departing staff. We're about to celebrate 70 years of the Queen's dutiful service to the nation as Head of State.

    It's the sort of contrast that I'd expect to play badly among the older generation. And yet it doesn't.

    It's this sort of thing that makes me think that those predicting Johnson's defeat at the next election are guilty of projecting their own desires onto the electorate. There's something about Boris that defies the normal rules of politics.
    Your final point was made by Andrew Neil a few days ago - the "normal rules" simply don't seem to apply to Boris or his counterpart north of the border. He parties and dissembles, while Sturgeon smugly decimates Scottish education. But a significant number of people just don't care.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    You fired someone for having been drunk and behind the wheel. So you already know where are situations where drinking and work shouldn't mix. Don't condemn others for having similar view.
    Absolutely, I stand by that. Being behind the wheel and drinking don't mix - and that's true whether working or not working.

    So long as you're not driving, having dinner and drinking absolutely can mix, whether that be at home, or Starmer, or Johnson.
    It's not just driving though, is it? Would you be happy if your kids' teacher was rat-arsed in the classroom? Do you want a gas engineer having a liquid lunch before tackling your boiler?
    There are quite sensible views that revolve around not drinking on the job. It feels to me that the business of government is serious enough to warrant a view against drinking on the job. It's not a wildly puritan view to think so.
    Rat arsed? No, that's a safety issue.

    If the gas engineer is within legal limits and perfectly safe to tackle the boiler then I couldn't give less of a shit at what he or she had for lunch. If OTOH its a safety issue, then that is different, just like with driving.

    I completely and 100% disagree that drinking on the job is not acceptable for "serious" jobs, quite the opposite in fact.
    Winston Churchill says hi

    As do a trillion actors, writers, artists, sculptors, dancers. For some of them, booze - or other intoxicants - can actually improve the work. Byron insisted he did his best work "with a light champagne hangover" and a hooker nearby, or, as he put it, more politely:

    There's a whore on my right
    For I rhyme best at night
    When a C*nt is tied close to my inkstand
    Is that really "more politely"?

    Aristos can get away with anything, of course.
    They just think they can.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Leon said:

    Really? Why is Beer Korma, SIR Beer Korma? What did he do? Why is he a knight and so much better - and more honest - than the rest of us? How did he get to be SO incredibly honest they made him a duke?

    Why is *anyone* a Sir? Starmer is a Knight Commander of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. Which is the third most senior in the orders of chivalry.

    It - like all of this medieval nonsense we cling to - is a nonsense.
  • Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    I understand what you mean, but:

    1) Alcohol affects people in many different ways. It make me maudlin; it reduces the inhibitions of others and makes others violent. I certainly noticed the effect a couple of lunchtime pints would have on my work in the afternoon. It did not improve it (admittedly from a low base)...

    2) Many workplaces ban all alcohol; for some, if you are working, you cannot have drunk alcohol for a certain number of hours beforehand. Anecdotally, this is becoming increasingly common, even for roles that are not safety critical.
    1) The liberal thing to do is have the individual responsible for their own actions. If somebody is violent after drinking then they shouldn't be drinking, if somebody is a perfectly responsible and reasonable individual they can be.

    2) That is a puritanical and retrograde step and not something to be encouraged or celebrated.
    1) The problem is that individuals are all too often not responsible for their own actions.

    2) The thinking is this: if some roles are banned from drinking on duty, then all roles should be, from the bottom of the organisation to the top. It seems better than the situation where (say) the bigwigs in their offices have long boozy lunches, but the plebs on the shop floor will get sacked if they had a drink six hours before they started their shift (because of safety issues). One rule for all.

    I'm not saying drinking should be banned in parliament; I'm just wondering if there's a connection between the infamously boozy culture there (is that as bad as made out?) and some of the things that happen. IMO it cannot help.
    1) Yes they are.

    2) Is utterly preposterous. "One rule for all" should mean that health and safety regulations apply to all where they are appropriate not all at all times even when inappropriate.

    If the rule is that you must wear a hard hat if on a construction site then everyone in the construction site should be wearing a hardhat, whether they be bigwigs or not. But its not a reason to say that office workers need to wear a hardhat while in the office, nor does it mean that construction workers who are in the office can't take their hardhat off while in the office.

    The rule is not for the worker based on job title, but what they are doing. If health and safety is an issue, the rule applies, if it is not, it does not.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    So was that it? All the past six months over that? "Meh" sums it up completely.

    Time to move on from Partygate, Beergate and all these other trivial and puritanical -gates and concentrate on real issues like the Economy.

    And the first thing to do to fix the Economy is the Conservatives should oust Boris Johnson and replace him with someone prepared to trim back the state and cut taxes rather than expand it and raise them.

    What parts of the State do you propose to cut back on?

    Brexit added x,000 new civil service jobs because we now have to do piles of things we never had to worry about as the EU did it.

    In fact most departments have valid arguments to increase staff numbers rather than cut them due to Governmental demands.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2022

    Leon said:

    Really? Why is Beer Korma, SIR Beer Korma? What did he do? Why is he a knight and so much better - and more honest - than the rest of us? How did he get to be SO incredibly honest they made him a duke?

    Why is *anyone* a Sir? Starmer is a Knight Commander of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. Which is the third most senior in the orders of chivalry.

    It - like all of this medieval nonsense we cling to - is a nonsense.
    It is indeed a nonsense, and Boris has just successfully used it to skewer his opponents and deflate a potentially threatening critique

    Starmer should have refused the knighthood, surely. I can see Boris using it mercilessly in an election
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited May 2022

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    This all seems like Fair Comment from the BoJo the Bozzmeister


    "Boris Johnson is responding to Keir Starmer.

    He says that during Covid Starmer was “sniping from the sidelines and veering from one position to the next”.

    In his response today, Starmer failed to show “common sense”, he claims. He says Starmer failed to appreciate the context of what happened. He says the boundaries between work and socialisting became blurred.

    He accuses Starmer of being “sanctimonious”, and he descibes him as a “gaseous Zeppelin”, saying his pomposity has been punctured.

    He goes on:

    Sir Beer Korma is currently failing to hold himself to the same high standards he demanded of me.

    Johnson says Starmer said that Johnson should resign when he was being investigated by the police. But Starmer is being investigated by the police, and he has not resigned.

    He urges Starmer to apologise"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/may/25/partygate-live-sue-gray-report-published-boris-johnson-downing-street-no-10-drinking

    Starmer IS a sanctimonious prick. He also wanted to cancel British democracy. Well said, Boris Bojo "Boz-boz" The Bozzington Bozzles Johnson, Bozmeister General

    Did Johnson actually say that or have you made it up?
    He said it. And, I confess, I laughed out loud

    It's the sheer chutzpah of delivering a clever pun (tho not one he made himself) during THIS most solemn of occasions, what an insult to the 7 trillion dead of plague, blah blah whatever
    It's puerile ffs. Shape up.
    Of all the humourless pricks I expected not to laugh at Boris's deft and superbly funny pun, you are the humourless-est, and the prick-est, so thanks for fulfilling my priors
    ‘Deft and superbly funny’ ….

    AKA pretty lame piece of nose thumbing. It might raise a smile if you’d said it; pitiful from a prime minister.
    "Deft and superbly funny" was me trolling PB's very own Pomposity-Monger @kinabalu

    "Sir Beer Korma" IS a good pun, tho. The measure of it is: would it make a more memorable Sun front page? And yes, it would. It raises a smile and maybe a chuckle

    You need the "Sir" bit tho. That's the funny part. The contrast between the Sir - why the F does this supercilious idiot Starmer have a fucking knighthood anyway, and for what? - and the Beer and Korma is the essence of the tension and thus the humour
    I chuckled - I can imagine what the meeting was like where they came up with that line.

    Here is the problem - context. Had that been thrown out during PMQ knockabout then it would have been great! But this was Bonzo's humble apology. In response to Starmer pointing out that whilst he hasn't been found to break any rules he will do the right thing and resign if the police find otherwise.

    So having decided to be humble and say sorry, all Bonzo can do is call him "Sir Beer Korma" because actually all this is Starmer's fault actually and I'm the victim here.
    I could understand why the Boris "isn't he a good laugh" Johnson act won him the Mayor of London elections, but what I find baffling about his contemporary success with it is that it seems to appeal so strongly to the oldies, who I would have thought would be less approving of this sort of carry on.

    One word that particularly struck me earlier was "duty". Johnson said he saw it as his duty to attend gatherings that broke Covid regulations to say goodbye to departing staff. We're about to celebrate 70 years of the Queen's dutiful service to the nation as Head of State.

    It's the sort of contrast that I'd expect to play badly among the older generation. And yet it doesn't.

    It's this sort of thing that makes me think that those predicting Johnson's defeat at the next election are guilty of projecting their own desires onto the electorate. There's something about Boris that defies the normal rules of politics.
    Your final point was made by Andrew Neil a few days ago - the "normal rules" simply don't seem to apply to Boris or his counterpart north of the border. He parties and dissembles, while Sturgeon smugly decimates Scottish education. But a significant number of people just don't care.
    I think in Boris case its quite simple. He gives off a positive vision (however unrealistic it is) , its a more subtle Make America Great Again....its plays on nostalgia for oldies and for people who have a bit of a shit life that things could get better.

    In comparison, Starmer is going to spend the next 12hrs droning on about how UK is down the toilet and even if we do x, y and z, still going to be shit.

    Where Boris runs out of road is when we get the situation like now, where all the boosterism isn't going to work when everything around you is getting more expensive by the day.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    This all seems like Fair Comment from the BoJo the Bozzmeister


    "Boris Johnson is responding to Keir Starmer.

    He says that during Covid Starmer was “sniping from the sidelines and veering from one position to the next”.

    In his response today, Starmer failed to show “common sense”, he claims. He says Starmer failed to appreciate the context of what happened. He says the boundaries between work and socialisting became blurred.

    He accuses Starmer of being “sanctimonious”, and he descibes him as a “gaseous Zeppelin”, saying his pomposity has been punctured.

    He goes on:

    Sir Beer Korma is currently failing to hold himself to the same high standards he demanded of me.

    Johnson says Starmer said that Johnson should resign when he was being investigated by the police. But Starmer is being investigated by the police, and he has not resigned.

    He urges Starmer to apologise"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/may/25/partygate-live-sue-gray-report-published-boris-johnson-downing-street-no-10-drinking

    Starmer IS a sanctimonious prick. He also wanted to cancel British democracy. Well said, Boris Bojo "Boz-boz" The Bozzington Bozzles Johnson, Bozmeister General

    Did Johnson actually say that or have you made it up?
    He said it. And, I confess, I laughed out loud

    It's the sheer chutzpah of delivering a clever pun (tho not one he made himself) during THIS most solemn of occasions, what an insult to the 7 trillion dead of plague, blah blah whatever
    It's puerile ffs. Shape up.
    Of all the humourless pricks I expected not to laugh at Boris's deft and superbly funny pun, you are the humourless-est, and the prick-est, so thanks for fulfilling my priors
    ‘Deft and superbly funny’ ….

    AKA pretty lame piece of nose thumbing. It might raise a smile if you’d said it; pitiful from a prime minister.
    "Deft and superbly funny" was me trolling PB's very own Pomposity-Monger @kinabalu

    "Sir Beer Korma" IS a good pun, tho. The measure of it is: would it make a more memorable Sun front page? And yes, it would. It raises a smile and maybe a chuckle

    You need the "Sir" bit tho. That's the funny part. The contrast between the Sir - why the F does this supercilious idiot Starmer have a fucking knighthood anyway, and for what? - and the Beer and Korma is the essence of the tension and thus the humour
    I chuckled - I can imagine what the meeting was like where they came up with that line.

    Here is the problem - context. Had that been thrown out during PMQ knockabout then it would have been great! But this was Bonzo's humble apology. In response to Starmer pointing out that whilst he hasn't been found to break any rules he will do the right thing and resign if the police find otherwise.

    So having decided to be humble and say sorry, all Bonzo can do is call him "Sir Beer Korma" because actually all this is Starmer's fault actually and I'm the victim here.
    I could understand why the Boris "isn't he a good laugh" Johnson act won him the Mayor of London elections, but what I find baffling about his contemporary success with it is that it seems to appeal so strongly to the oldies, who I would have thought would be less approving of this sort of carry on.

    One word that particularly struck me earlier was "duty". Johnson said he saw it as his duty to attend gatherings that broke Covid regulations to say goodbye to departing staff. We're about to celebrate 70 years of the Queen's dutiful service to the nation as Head of State.

    It's the sort of contrast that I'd expect to play badly among the older generation. And yet it doesn't.

    It's this sort of thing that makes me think that those predicting Johnson's defeat at the next election are guilty of projecting their own desires onto the electorate. There's something about Boris that defies the normal rules of politics.
    Yes, his duty to attend a leaving event. In the real world these are not necessary for work. People stop work. Leave their desks. Gather together in a room to hear a manager do a little speech and then the leaver open a present and say bye. Then people go back to their desks and back to work.

    Duty? I have both had to fill in and do the manager bit when the actual manager couldn't be arsed, and seen people slip quietly out the door with nothing. It is neither work nor essential.
  • eek said:

    So was that it? All the past six months over that? "Meh" sums it up completely.

    Time to move on from Partygate, Beergate and all these other trivial and puritanical -gates and concentrate on real issues like the Economy.

    And the first thing to do to fix the Economy is the Conservatives should oust Boris Johnson and replace him with someone prepared to trim back the state and cut taxes rather than expand it and raise them.

    What parts of the State do you propose to cut back on?

    Brexit added x,000 new civil service jobs because we now have to do piles of things we never had to worry about as the EU did it.

    In fact most departments have valid arguments to increase staff numbers rather than cut them due to Governmental demands.
    Welfare for the elderly might be the first starting point. That takes up the majority of the welfare state nowadays and has only been featherbedded further and further since the turn of the century.

    Time to cut back the welfare state and reduce the burden that people who are not working impose on those who are.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    You fired someone for having been drunk and behind the wheel. So you already know where are situations where drinking and work shouldn't mix. Don't condemn others for having similar view.
    Absolutely, I stand by that. Being behind the wheel and drinking don't mix - and that's true whether working or not working.

    So long as you're not driving, having dinner and drinking absolutely can mix, whether that be at home, or Starmer, or Johnson.
    It's not just driving though, is it? Would you be happy if your kids' teacher was rat-arsed in the classroom? Do you want a gas engineer having a liquid lunch before tackling your boiler?
    There are quite sensible views that revolve around not drinking on the job. It feels to me that the business of government is serious enough to warrant a view against drinking on the job. It's not a wildly puritan view to think so.
    Rat arsed? No, that's a safety issue.

    If the gas engineer is within legal limits and perfectly safe to tackle the boiler then I couldn't give less of a shit at what he or she had for lunch. If OTOH its a safety issue, then that is different, just like with driving.

    I completely and 100% disagree that drinking on the job is not acceptable for "serious" jobs, quite the opposite in fact.
    Winston Churchill says hi

    As do a trillion actors, writers, artists, sculptors, dancers. For some of them, booze - or other intoxicants - can actually improve the work. Byron insisted he did his best work "with a light champagne hangover" and a hooker nearby, or, as he put it, more politely:

    There's a whore on my right
    For I rhyme best at night
    When a C*nt is tied close to my inkstand
    I completely agree with you. Under normal circumstances.

    But this is a government that shuttered the pubs and prevented people from meeting up to socialise for months on end. Then when they finally did start opening things up it was with stupid, pointless things like one way systems, having to put a mask on when you get up to go to the loo, or closing all the pubs early so everyone ends up on the street/public transport at the same time.

    The government made these silly laws, knowing damn well they were silly, then proceeded to ignore the laws themselves.

    That is what is at question here. I have no problem with Boris or anyone else having a beer at work at lunchtime. It's the way he banned the rest of us from doing it that's the problem.
    Yes, the fun with this particular circus is it gives everyone - cavalier or roundhead - reason to get grumpy and indignant.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Nigelb said:

    This won’t change anything, just as Sandy Hook didn’t. In America, women are less important than babies, and babies are less important than guns, and money is more important than all of it combined.
    https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1529351599189008384

    Even moderate(ish) Republican Mitt Romney….

    https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/1529231584217468928
    Grief overwhelms the soul. Children slaughtered. Lives extinguished. Parents’ hearts wrenched. Incomprehensible. I offer prayer and condolence but know that it is grossly inadequate. We must find answers...

    …. $13.5m in NRA donations.

    Weird isn’t it how Republicans support changing laws to stop foetuses being killed but won’t change laws to stop schoolchildren being killed.

    Maybe they want more foetuses to grow up to be children so they can be shot in classrooms by bullets made by the people who bankroll the NRA.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Really? Why is Beer Korma, SIR Beer Korma? What did he do? Why is he a knight and so much better - and more honest - than the rest of us? How did he get to be SO incredibly honest they made him a duke?

    Why is *anyone* a Sir? Starmer is a Knight Commander of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. Which is the third most senior in the orders of chivalry.

    It - like all of this medieval nonsense we cling to - is a nonsense.
    It is indeed a nonsense, and Boris has just successfully used it to skewer his opponents and deflate a potentially threatening critique

    Starmer should have refused the knighthood, surely. I can see Boris using it mercilessly in an election
    Wikipedia says "he prefers that people do not use the title "Sir"."

    Good luck!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Really? Why is Beer Korma, SIR Beer Korma? What did he do? Why is he a knight and so much better - and more honest - than the rest of us? How did he get to be SO incredibly honest they made him a duke?

    Why is *anyone* a Sir? Starmer is a Knight Commander of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. Which is the third most senior in the orders of chivalry.

    It - like all of this medieval nonsense we cling to - is a nonsense.
    It is indeed a nonsense, and Boris has just successfully used it to skewer his opponents and deflate a potentially threatening critique

    Starmer should have refused the knighthood, surely. I can see Boris using it mercilessly in an election
    Well, the current PM is hardly going to be able to run on his record, is he? Or his character?

    Its' going to be 'No case, abuse the opposition!'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    edited May 2022

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    This all seems like Fair Comment from the BoJo the Bozzmeister


    "Boris Johnson is responding to Keir Starmer.

    He says that during Covid Starmer was “sniping from the sidelines and veering from one position to the next”.

    In his response today, Starmer failed to show “common sense”, he claims. He says Starmer failed to appreciate the context of what happened. He says the boundaries between work and socialisting became blurred.

    He accuses Starmer of being “sanctimonious”, and he descibes him as a “gaseous Zeppelin”, saying his pomposity has been punctured.

    He goes on:

    Sir Beer Korma is currently failing to hold himself to the same high standards he demanded of me.

    Johnson says Starmer said that Johnson should resign when he was being investigated by the police. But Starmer is being investigated by the police, and he has not resigned.

    He urges Starmer to apologise"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/may/25/partygate-live-sue-gray-report-published-boris-johnson-downing-street-no-10-drinking

    Starmer IS a sanctimonious prick. He also wanted to cancel British democracy. Well said, Boris Bojo "Boz-boz" The Bozzington Bozzles Johnson, Bozmeister General

    Did Johnson actually say that or have you made it up?
    He said it. And, I confess, I laughed out loud

    It's the sheer chutzpah of delivering a clever pun (tho not one he made himself) during THIS most solemn of occasions, what an insult to the 7 trillion dead of plague, blah blah whatever
    It's puerile ffs. Shape up.
    Of all the humourless pricks I expected not to laugh at Boris's deft and superbly funny pun, you are the humourless-est, and the prick-est, so thanks for fulfilling my priors
    ‘Deft and superbly funny’ ….

    AKA pretty lame piece of nose thumbing. It might raise a smile if you’d said it; pitiful from a prime minister.
    "Deft and superbly funny" was me trolling PB's very own Pomposity-Monger @kinabalu

    "Sir Beer Korma" IS a good pun, tho. The measure of it is: would it make a more memorable Sun front page? And yes, it would. It raises a smile and maybe a chuckle

    You need the "Sir" bit tho. That's the funny part. The contrast between the Sir - why the F does this supercilious idiot Starmer have a fucking knighthood anyway, and for what? - and the Beer and Korma is the essence of the tension and thus the humour
    I chuckled - I can imagine what the meeting was like where they came up with that line.

    Here is the problem - context. Had that been thrown out during PMQ knockabout then it would have been great! But this was Bonzo's humble apology. In response to Starmer pointing out that whilst he hasn't been found to break any rules he will do the right thing and resign if the police find otherwise.

    So having decided to be humble and say sorry, all Bonzo can do is call him "Sir Beer Korma" because actually all this is Starmer's fault actually and I'm the victim here.
    I could understand why the Boris "isn't he a good laugh" Johnson act won him the Mayor of London elections, but what I find baffling about his contemporary success with it is that it seems to appeal so strongly to the oldies, who I would have thought would be less approving of this sort of carry on.

    One word that particularly struck me earlier was "duty". Johnson said he saw it as his duty to attend gatherings that broke Covid regulations to say goodbye to departing staff. We're about to celebrate 70 years of the Queen's dutiful service to the nation as Head of State.

    It's the sort of contrast that I'd expect to play badly among the older generation. And yet it doesn't.

    It's this sort of thing that makes me think that those predicting Johnson's defeat at the next election are guilty of projecting their own desires onto the electorate. There's something about Boris that defies the normal rules of politics.
    Yes, his duty to attend a leaving event. In the real world these are not necessary for work. People stop work. Leave their desks. Gather together in a room to hear a manager do a little speech and then the leaver open a present and say bye. Then people go back to their desks and back to work.

    Duty? I have both had to fill in and do the manager bit when the actual manager couldn't be arsed, and seen people slip quietly out the door with nothing. It is neither work nor essential.
    Or, as pointed out by others, be done with in the time of covid by zoom, and/or by a whipround for bunches of flowers and pressies sent to the home of the person in question.

    Ergo, what Mr J et al did was neither work nor necessary for work.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    I understand what you mean, but:

    1) Alcohol affects people in many different ways. It make me maudlin; it reduces the inhibitions of others and makes others violent. I certainly noticed the effect a couple of lunchtime pints would have on my work in the afternoon. It did not improve it (admittedly from a low base)...

    2) Many workplaces ban all alcohol; for some, if you are working, you cannot have drunk alcohol for a certain number of hours beforehand. Anecdotally, this is becoming increasingly common, even for roles that are not safety critical.
    1) The liberal thing to do is have the individual responsible for their own actions. If somebody is violent after drinking then they shouldn't be drinking, if somebody is a perfectly responsible and reasonable individual they can be.

    2) That is a puritanical and retrograde step and not something to be encouraged or celebrated.
    1) The problem is that individuals are all too often not responsible for their own actions.

    2) The thinking is this: if some roles are banned from drinking on duty, then all roles should be, from the bottom of the organisation to the top. It seems better than the situation where (say) the bigwigs in their offices have long boozy lunches, but the plebs on the shop floor will get sacked if they had a drink six hours before they started their shift (because of safety issues). One rule for all.

    I'm not saying drinking should be banned in parliament; I'm just wondering if there's a connection between the infamously boozy culture there (is that as bad as made out?) and some of the things that happen. IMO it cannot help.
    1) Yes they are.

    2) Is utterly preposterous. "One rule for all" should mean that health and safety regulations apply to all where they are appropriate not all at all times even when inappropriate.

    If the rule is that you must wear a hard hat if on a construction site then everyone in the construction site should be wearing a hardhat, whether they be bigwigs or not. But its not a reason to say that office workers need to wear a hardhat while in the office, nor does it mean that construction workers who are in the office can't take their hardhat off while in the office.

    The rule is not for the worker based on job title, but what they are doing. If health and safety is an issue, the rule applies, if it is not, it does not.
    Like Prime Ministers in hospitals needing to obey the regs on face masks and infection control?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    This won’t change anything, just as Sandy Hook didn’t. In America, women are less important than babies, and babies are less important than guns, and money is more important than all of it combined.
    https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1529351599189008384

    Even moderate(ish) Republican Mitt Romney….

    https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/1529231584217468928
    Grief overwhelms the soul. Children slaughtered. Lives extinguished. Parents’ hearts wrenched. Incomprehensible. I offer prayer and condolence but know that it is grossly inadequate. We must find answers...

    …. $13.5m in NRA donations.

    Weird isn’t it how Republicans support changing laws to stop foetuses being killed but won’t change laws to stop schoolchildren being killed.

    Maybe they want more foetuses to grow up to be children so they can be shot in classrooms by bullets made by the people who bankroll the NRA.
    I think it was PJ O"Rourke who commented that in American politics, people are either

    1) Pro-abortion and anti-death penalty
    2) Anti-abortion and pro-death penalty
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    It worked


    [ TTs UK🇬🇧 13:59 ]
    "Sir Beer Korma" entered the Top Trends => 4⃣


    Genius
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cummings exposed as a liar btw, so that's one good thing about the report

    Of course it is possible further photos will emerge this week
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    As Prime Minister, Boris Johnson should...

    Resign: 59%
    Remain: 30%

    via @YouGov, 25 May
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Really? Why is Beer Korma, SIR Beer Korma? What did he do? Why is he a knight and so much better - and more honest - than the rest of us? How did he get to be SO incredibly honest they made him a duke?

    Why is *anyone* a Sir? Starmer is a Knight Commander of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. Which is the third most senior in the orders of chivalry.

    It - like all of this medieval nonsense we cling to - is a nonsense.
    It is indeed a nonsense, and Boris has just successfully used it to skewer his opponents and deflate a potentially threatening critique

    Starmer should have refused the knighthood, surely. I can see Boris using it mercilessly in an election
    I went to school with a boy whose father turned down a peerage.

    Mind you, he turned it down on the grounds that his existing title was ancient - one the longest continuously held titles - and he esteemed it more than a political life peerage.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    eek said:

    So was that it? All the past six months over that? "Meh" sums it up completely.

    Time to move on from Partygate, Beergate and all these other trivial and puritanical -gates and concentrate on real issues like the Economy.

    And the first thing to do to fix the Economy is the Conservatives should oust Boris Johnson and replace him with someone prepared to trim back the state and cut taxes rather than expand it and raise them.

    What parts of the State do you propose to cut back on?

    Brexit added x,000 new civil service jobs because we now have to do piles of things we never had to worry about as the EU did it.

    In fact most departments have valid arguments to increase staff numbers rather than cut them due to Governmental demands.
    Welfare for the elderly might be the first starting point. That takes up the majority of the welfare state nowadays and has only been featherbedded further and further since the turn of the century.

    Time to cut back the welfare state and reduce the burden that people who are not working impose on those who are.
    You may be old and infirm yourself one day, Barty.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Leon said:

    In one leap Boris was free! But we now face the amazing possibility that Sir Keir will be forced to resign as LOTO in a few weeks. How smug would Boris feel if that happened - everyone was rounding on him over flouting Covid restrictions, but it's Labour who are plunged into crisis over it.

    I will probably rupture my spleen with laughter if Sir Beer Korma has to resign after his solemn vow of Deep Personal Honesty. For the record, I don't think he will get a FPN, but if he did: CHORTLE

    Also, Labour might then elect Rayner as leader, and she'd be much more fun and interesting and would be good for the country
    What does Starmer do if Durham plod take the obvious fudge and say like Big Dom that there could well have been minor breaches of the rules, but in line with policy decline to issue a FPN retrospectively?
    He declares victory.
  • Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    I understand what you mean, but:

    1) Alcohol affects people in many different ways. It make me maudlin; it reduces the inhibitions of others and makes others violent. I certainly noticed the effect a couple of lunchtime pints would have on my work in the afternoon. It did not improve it (admittedly from a low base)...

    2) Many workplaces ban all alcohol; for some, if you are working, you cannot have drunk alcohol for a certain number of hours beforehand. Anecdotally, this is becoming increasingly common, even for roles that are not safety critical.
    1) The liberal thing to do is have the individual responsible for their own actions. If somebody is violent after drinking then they shouldn't be drinking, if somebody is a perfectly responsible and reasonable individual they can be.

    2) That is a puritanical and retrograde step and not something to be encouraged or celebrated.
    1) The problem is that individuals are all too often not responsible for their own actions.

    2) The thinking is this: if some roles are banned from drinking on duty, then all roles should be, from the bottom of the organisation to the top. It seems better than the situation where (say) the bigwigs in their offices have long boozy lunches, but the plebs on the shop floor will get sacked if they had a drink six hours before they started their shift (because of safety issues). One rule for all.

    I'm not saying drinking should be banned in parliament; I'm just wondering if there's a connection between the infamously boozy culture there (is that as bad as made out?) and some of the things that happen. IMO it cannot help.
    1) Yes they are.

    2) Is utterly preposterous. "One rule for all" should mean that health and safety regulations apply to all where they are appropriate not all at all times even when inappropriate.

    If the rule is that you must wear a hard hat if on a construction site then everyone in the construction site should be wearing a hardhat, whether they be bigwigs or not. But its not a reason to say that office workers need to wear a hardhat while in the office, nor does it mean that construction workers who are in the office can't take their hardhat off while in the office.

    The rule is not for the worker based on job title, but what they are doing. If health and safety is an issue, the rule applies, if it is not, it does not.
    Like Prime Ministers in hospitals needing to obey the regs on face masks and infection control?
    Yes, actually. Exactly like that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    It makes me think that releasing the champagne photo was good media management, preventing it from being the headline image today, with today illustrated instead by the Boots meal deal photo, which is a lot less fun and therefore less damaging.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Really? Why is Beer Korma, SIR Beer Korma? What did he do? Why is he a knight and so much better - and more honest - than the rest of us? How did he get to be SO incredibly honest they made him a duke?

    Why is *anyone* a Sir? Starmer is a Knight Commander of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. Which is the third most senior in the orders of chivalry.

    It - like all of this medieval nonsense we cling to - is a nonsense.
    It is indeed a nonsense, and Boris has just successfully used it to skewer his opponents and deflate a potentially threatening critique

    Starmer should have refused the knighthood, surely. I can see Boris using it mercilessly in an election
    I went to school with a boy whose father turned down a peerage.

    Mind you, he turned it down on the grounds that his existing title was ancient - one the longest continuously held titles - and he esteemed it more than a political life peerage.
    Interesting. Not a baronet, cos they were James vi and I. Clan chief? Irish The wotsit of the Reeks sort of thing?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes there was less of a drinking culture, and more of an LSD one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Scott_xP said:

    As Prime Minister, Boris Johnson should...

    Resign: 59%
    Remain: 30%

    via @YouGov, 25 May

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1529453769896894467

    Three quarters of British people thing he lied
    Half of Tory voters think he lied
    More than half of leave voters think he lied

    Going well for the Tories. All in the past now and his entirely honest apology has been accepted.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited May 2022

    It makes me think that releasing the champagne photo was good media management, preventing it from being the headline image today, with today illustrated instead by the Boots meal deal photo, which is a lot less fun and therefore less damaging.

    You can feel the hand of Lynton Crosby in all of this. Everybody has seen Starmer raise a beer, now the underwhelming meal day photo is front and centre....and then have buried Sunak during this period as well.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,661
    edited May 2022
    Which is sadder, Boris claiming he was humbled or his shrills defending him here?

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Stocky said:

    It's about time Johnson put an end to this absurdity. He has an opportunity to do so now.

    He should say: "I have contacted Durham police and suggested that they cease the investigation into Kier Starmer potentially breaking Covid laws. We need to move on from the pandemic now; in a positive and optimistic way and stop blaming each other and trying to score political points. No leader of a political party should feel obliged to resign from office due to the issuing of a fixed penalty notice".

    It's none of Johnson's business.

    If Durham are significantly more robust than the Met. which we all hope they are, in investigating when a work event crossed the line to become a social event and they find Starmer, Rayner and Foy even inadvertently guilty, Starmer and Rayner must go.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    To be honest, I'm not sure that 18 year olds downing cans of Tennant's while carrying loaded automatic rifles is a particularly good idea.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Jonathan said:

    Which is sadder, Boris claiming he was humbled or his shrills defending him here?

    Who is defending him?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    It makes me think that releasing the champagne photo was good media management, preventing it from being the headline image today, with today illustrated instead by the Boots meal deal photo, which is a lot less fun and therefore less damaging.

    You can feel the hand of Lynton Crosby in all of this. Everybody has seen Starmer raise a beer, now the underwhelming meal day photo is front and centre....and then have buried Sunak during this period as well.
    I mean celebrating someone's birthday by filing in to a conference room to grab a prawn and mayo on wholemeal is almost Mayite in its conservatism.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Leon said:

    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun

    Not sure what you are looking at. Beer Korma isn't trending. But here's everything related to politics that is:
    1 - PMQs
    4 - #notmovingon
    5 - #toriespartiedwhilepeopledied
    6 - Tobias Ellwood
    9 - No10
    16 - Humbled
    17 - Theresa May
    21 - The Thick of It
    22 - General Election
    24 - Wine Time Fridays
    26 - BoJo
    29 - #politicslive

    Combine that with the YouGov snap poll and he will need more than one gag to get him out of this.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited May 2022
    Been at the cinema today watching Top Gun: Maverick, anything major happened whilst I was hors de combat in the cinema?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    To be honest, I'm not sure that 18 year olds downing cans of Tennant's while carrying loaded automatic rifles is a particularly good idea.
    Are we exporting Tennents over there? Cool!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    It makes me think that releasing the champagne photo was good media management, preventing it from being the headline image today, with today illustrated instead by the Boots meal deal photo, which is a lot less fun and therefore less damaging.

    Did Number 10 have control of which photos were released and when?

    If so, then yes. Excellent media management

    As soon as I looked at the meal deal images it was WHAT? IS THAT IT??

    I thought we were building up to some ultimate snorting-chang-off-a-taut-buttock snap, but no. You could feel the outrage drain away,
    all around

    And the claims by the likes of Bryant - calling number 10 “a cesspit of entitled, arrogant narcissism” - sounded like unhinged hyperbole

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    rkrkrk said:

    As an aside, I couldn't resist a few quid on Aaron Bell as next leader of the Tories.
    >800/1 at the moment in a very illiquid market on betfair.

    I think it's possible he might run because he's a) clearly fed up with Boris Johnson, b) in the kind of seat the Tories might struggle to hold if they get a bad result c) clearly smart, and must be looking round at his colleagues/cabinet and thinking... I could do a much better version of this.

    Hard to see him winning certainly, but just being in the race would bring those odds tumbling down.

    It is the patriotic duty of every PBer to bring Aaron's odds down, therefore creating a narrative that he is a leading backbencher in the running to replace Boris.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .

    Leon said:

    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun

    Not sure what you are looking at. Beer Korma isn't trending. But here's everything related to politics that is:
    1 - PMQs
    4 - #notmovingon
    5 - #toriespartiedwhilepeopledied
    6 - Tobias Ellwood
    9 - No10
    16 - Humbled
    17 - Theresa May
    21 - The Thick of It
    22 - General Election
    24 - Wine Time Fridays
    26 - BoJo
    29 - #politicslive

    Combine that with the YouGov snap poll and he will need more than one gag to get him out of this.
    https://trends24.in/united-kingdom/


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited May 2022

    Been at the cinema today watching Top Gun: Maverick, anything major happened whilst I was hors de combat in the cinema?

    Evidence to not let Spads organise your birthday party ...it will be shit. No wonder they can't run the country.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,661

    Been at the cinema today watching Top Gun: Maverick, anything major happened whilst I was hors de combat in the cinema?

    Nah, same old same old. The PM debasing the office and the Tories going along for the ride.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes there was less of a drinking culture, and more of an LSD one.
    LSD is a productivity killer, cos it requires a whole day set aside, and no responding to emails. DMT's the thing, over and done within a lunch hour and still leaves time to grab a sandwich.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Ugh, ugh, ugh.


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Leon said:

    It makes me think that releasing the champagne photo was good media management, preventing it from being the headline image today, with today illustrated instead by the Boots meal deal photo, which is a lot less fun and therefore less damaging.

    Did Number 10 have control of which photos were released and when?

    If so, then yes. Excellent media management

    As soon as I looked at the meal deal images it was WHAT? IS THAT IT??

    I thought we were building up to some ultimate snorting-chang-off-a-taut-buttock snap, but no. You could feel the outrage drain away,
    all around

    And the claims by the likes of Bryant - calling number 10 “a cesspit of entitled, arrogant narcissism” - sounded like unhinged hyperbole

    Boris Johnson’s greatest ability is to twist reality so that critics of his dishonesty sound as though they’re unhinged

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pms-superpower-is-to-trivialise-everything-cjxrq2tvs
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Jonathan said:

    Which is sadder, Boris claiming he was humbled or his shrills defending him here?

    lol - nobody is defending him! Leon is the nearest - and he was only applauding a good beamer bowled at Starmer.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    Leon said:

    It makes me think that releasing the champagne photo was good media management, preventing it from being the headline image today, with today illustrated instead by the Boots meal deal photo, which is a lot less fun and therefore less damaging.

    Did Number 10 have control of which photos were released and when?

    If so, then yes. Excellent media management

    As soon as I looked at the meal deal images it was WHAT? IS THAT IT??

    I thought we were building up to some ultimate snorting-chang-off-a-taut-buttock snap, but no. You could feel the outrage drain away,
    all around

    And the claims by the likes of Bryant - calling number 10 “a cesspit of entitled, arrogant narcissism” - sounded like unhinged hyperbole

    I don't think we know who leaked it. But it seems like it was good timing for Bojo. I'm not defending him by the way - I don't really care about partygate, but also I don't care if it ends his Prime Minsiterial career.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,661

    Jonathan said:

    Which is sadder, Boris claiming he was humbled or his shrills defending him here?

    lol - nobody is defending him! Leon is the nearest - and he was only applauding a good beamer bowled at Starmer.
    Do you think he should resign now?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Applicant said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun

    Not sure what you are looking at. Beer Korma isn't trending. But here's everything related to politics that is:
    1 - PMQs
    4 - #notmovingon
    5 - #toriespartiedwhilepeopledied
    6 - Tobias Ellwood
    9 - No10
    16 - Humbled
    17 - Theresa May
    21 - The Thick of It
    22 - General Election
    24 - Wine Time Fridays
    26 - BoJo
    29 - #politicslive

    Combine that with the YouGov snap poll and he will need more than one gag to get him out of this.
    https://trends24.in/united-kingdom/


    Not according to Twitter https://twitter.com/explore/tabs/trending
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Ugh, ugh, ugh.

    As well as being another scene from TTOI, the Bullingdon Club is alive and well in Downing Street
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Applicant said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun

    Not sure what you are looking at. Beer Korma isn't trending. But here's everything related to politics that is:
    1 - PMQs
    4 - #notmovingon
    5 - #toriespartiedwhilepeopledied
    6 - Tobias Ellwood
    9 - No10
    16 - Humbled
    17 - Theresa May
    21 - The Thick of It
    22 - General Election
    24 - Wine Time Fridays
    26 - BoJo
    29 - #politicslive

    Combine that with the YouGov snap poll and he will need more than one gag to get him out of this.
    https://trends24.in/united-kingdom/


    He also got “Vladimir Corbyn” in there, which is also a clever piece of wordplay

    Boris has had some lame jokes of late. Maybe he’s hired a talented newbie
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Ugh, ugh, ugh.


    The Thick of It really was a documentary, wasn't it?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:

    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun

    "Sir Beer Korma" will stick. It will be a particularly valuable weapon for Johnson to beat him with, should Starmer survive. The most remarkable take- away (pun intended) is the absolute conviction Johnson still holds that he has done absolutely nothing wrong.

    If he can calm the troops this afternoon Johnson has completed an excellent day's work (for himself).
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Ugh, ugh, ugh.


    Yep. Its what did it for Ben Swain https://twitter.com/Aiannucci/status/1529446965054181378
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    To be honest, I'm not sure that 18 year olds downing cans of Tennant's while carrying loaded automatic rifles is a particularly good idea.
    Also a bit bemused that Barty doesn't understand the reason for this. Hint: 2nd amendment says one thing, 18th said another
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    To be honest, I'm not sure that 18 year olds downing cans of Tennant's while carrying loaded automatic rifles is a particularly good idea.
    Also a bit bemused that Barty doesn't understand the reason for this. Hint: 2nd amendment says one thing, 18th said another
    I understand that, I just think the 2nd amendment should get the same treatment as the 21st amendment gave to the 18th.

    Its not going to happen, but it should.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Conversely to the header, I suspect today was the day Boris won his second majority. I can’t be the only one feeling a bit silly for getting so cross now Sue Gray has done her worst and published a photo of a whisky tumbler filled with fruit juice next to a sad pre-made sandwich.

    Starmer’s overplayed his hand on this and I think he knows it, hence PMQs today focusing on cost of living. The real line of attack should be against profligate public sector spending and the national insurance jobs tax. But I just don’t think he has it in him to deliver a knockout punch on that territory.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    Leon said:

    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun

    "Sir Beer Korma" will stick. It will be a particularly valuable weapon for Johnson to beat him with, should Starmer survive. The most remarkable take- away (pun intended) is the absolute conviction Johnson still holds that he has done absolutely nothing wrong.

    If he can calm the troops this afternoon Johnson has completed an excellent day's work (for himself).
    And a bad one for the country!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think Boris is actually very sorry at all.

    Rubbish. Like every liar he is sorry that he got caught.

    But enough. Time to move on.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    moonshine said:

    Conversely to the header, I suspect today was the day Boris won his second majority. I can’t be the only one feeling a bit silly for getting so cross now Sue Gray has done her worst and published a photo of a whisky tumbler filled with fruit juice next to a sad pre-made sandwich.

    Starmer’s overplayed his hand on this and I think he knows it, hence PMQs today focusing on cost of living. The real line of attack should be against profligate public sector spending and the national insurance jobs tax. But I just don’t think he has it in him to deliver a knockout punch on that territory.

    Are you Boris Johnson perchance?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Tory MPs remain strapped in to the Johnson rollercoaster - and no amount of co-ordinated tweets from supportive cabinet ministers can change the fact that, as things currently stand, it is heading for a major derailment come the next election.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/analysis-boris-johnson-humble-act-partygate-safe_uk_628e2328e4b0933e736d65fb
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Leon said:


    Applicant said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun

    Not sure what you are looking at. Beer Korma isn't trending. But here's everything related to politics that is:
    1 - PMQs
    4 - #notmovingon
    5 - #toriespartiedwhilepeopledied
    6 - Tobias Ellwood
    9 - No10
    16 - Humbled
    17 - Theresa May
    21 - The Thick of It
    22 - General Election
    24 - Wine Time Fridays
    26 - BoJo
    29 - #politicslive

    Combine that with the YouGov snap poll and he will need more than one gag to get him out of this.
    https://trends24.in/united-kingdom/


    He also got “Vladimir Corbyn” in there, which is also a clever piece of wordplay

    Boris has had some lame jokes of late. Maybe he’s hired a talented newbie
    They hired Lynton Crosby protegee.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/david-canzini-the-key-player-in-westminster-youve-never-heard-of-5t7fftckm
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    Conversely to the header, I suspect today was the day Boris won his second majority. I can’t be the only one feeling a bit silly for getting so cross now Sue Gray has done her worst and published a photo of a whisky tumbler filled with fruit juice next to a sad pre-made sandwich.

    Starmer’s overplayed his hand on this and I think he knows it, hence PMQs today focusing on cost of living. The real line of attack should be against profligate public sector spending and the national insurance jobs tax. But I just don’t think he has it in him to deliver a knockout punch on that territory.

    Are you Boris Johnson perchance?
    Just saying it how I see it. You may have missed my post this morning saying I am signing up to the Lib Dems.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think Boris is actually very sorry at all.

    Rubbish. Like every liar he is sorry that he got caught.

    But enough. Time to move on.
    Nah either the PM

    1) Lied to Parliament

    or

    2) Too stupid to realise he was at parties

    Our enemies like Putin will be licking their lips at the UK having such a gullible Prime Minister.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    To be honest, I'm not sure that 18 year olds downing cans of Tennant's while carrying loaded automatic rifles is a particularly good idea.
    Also a bit bemused that Barty doesn't understand the reason for this. Hint: 2nd amendment says one thing, 18th said another
    I understand that, I just think the 2nd amendment should get the same treatment as the 21st amendment gave to the 18th.

    Its not going to happen, but it should.
    The bar for amending the constitution is massive. 2/3rds of states !
    The Dems will never reach in a thousand years.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Jonathan said:

    Which is sadder, Boris claiming he was humbled or his shrills defending him here?

    lol - nobody is defending him! Leon is the nearest - and he was only applauding a good beamer bowled at Starmer.
    If contrition was the order of the day that excellent put down was best delivered on another occasion.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Ugh, ugh, ugh.


    Yep. Its what did it for Ben Swain https://twitter.com/Aiannucci/status/1529446965054181378
    I can hear him blinking on the radio.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Conversely to the header, I suspect today was the day Boris won his second majority. I can’t be the only one feeling a bit silly for getting so cross now Sue Gray has done her worst and published a photo of a whisky tumbler filled with fruit juice next to a sad pre-made sandwich.

    Starmer’s overplayed his hand on this and I think he knows it, hence PMQs today focusing on cost of living. The real line of attack should be against profligate public sector spending and the national insurance jobs tax. But I just don’t think he has it in him to deliver a knockout punch on that territory.

    Are you Boris Johnson perchance?
    Just saying it how I see it. You may have missed my post this morning saying I am signing up to the Lib Dems.
    My sympathies.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:


    Applicant said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun

    Not sure what you are looking at. Beer Korma isn't trending. But here's everything related to politics that is:
    1 - PMQs
    4 - #notmovingon
    5 - #toriespartiedwhilepeopledied
    6 - Tobias Ellwood
    9 - No10
    16 - Humbled
    17 - Theresa May
    21 - The Thick of It
    22 - General Election
    24 - Wine Time Fridays
    26 - BoJo
    29 - #politicslive

    Combine that with the YouGov snap poll and he will need more than one gag to get him out of this.
    https://trends24.in/united-kingdom/


    He also got “Vladimir Corbyn” in there, which is also a clever piece of wordplay

    Boris has had some lame jokes of late. Maybe he’s hired a talented newbie
    Sir Beer Korma worked fine, but perhaps best wheeled out on another day, under the circumstances noted in the Gray Report.

    Vladimir Corbyn was neither "a clever piece of wordplay" nor particularly topical. A bit s***, really.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    Jonathan said:

    Which is sadder, Boris claiming he was humbled or his shrills defending him here?

    Or shills. Though shrill shills would work even better.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Really? Why is Beer Korma, SIR Beer Korma? What did he do? Why is he a knight and so much better - and more honest - than the rest of us? How did he get to be SO incredibly honest they made him a duke?

    Why is *anyone* a Sir? Starmer is a Knight Commander of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. Which is the third most senior in the orders of chivalry.

    It - like all of this medieval nonsense we cling to - is a nonsense.
    It is indeed a nonsense, and Boris has just successfully used it to skewer his opponents and deflate a potentially threatening critique

    Starmer should have refused the knighthood, surely. I can see Boris using it mercilessly in an election
    I went to school with a boy whose father turned down a peerage.

    Mind you, he turned it down on the grounds that his existing title was ancient - one the longest continuously held titles - and he esteemed it more than a political life peerage.
    Also - he couldn't be blamed for the existing title.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Leon said:

    It makes me think that releasing the champagne photo was good media management, preventing it from being the headline image today, with today illustrated instead by the Boots meal deal photo, which is a lot less fun and therefore less damaging.

    Did Number 10 have control of which photos were released and when?

    If so, then yes. Excellent media management

    As soon as I looked at the meal deal images it was WHAT? IS THAT IT??

    I thought we were building up to some ultimate snorting-chang-off-a-taut-buttock snap, but no. You could feel the outrage drain away,
    all around

    And the claims by the likes of Bryant - calling number 10 “a cesspit of entitled, arrogant narcissism” - sounded like unhinged hyperbole

    I don't think we know who leaked it. But it seems like it was good timing for Bojo. I'm not defending him by the way - I don't really care about partygate, but also I don't care if it ends his Prime Minsiterial career.
    I suggested as such at the time. That it was leaked by Boris to spike the Gray report.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836
    edited May 2022

    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    This won’t change anything, just as Sandy Hook didn’t. In America, women are less important than babies, and babies are less important than guns, and money is more important than all of it combined.
    https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1529351599189008384

    Even moderate(ish) Republican Mitt Romney….

    https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/1529231584217468928
    Grief overwhelms the soul. Children slaughtered. Lives extinguished. Parents’ hearts wrenched. Incomprehensible. I offer prayer and condolence but know that it is grossly inadequate. We must find answers...

    …. $13.5m in NRA donations.

    Weird isn’t it how Republicans support changing laws to stop foetuses being killed but won’t change laws to stop schoolchildren being killed.

    Maybe they want more foetuses to grow up to be children so they can be shot in classrooms by bullets made by the people who bankroll the NRA.
    I think it was PJ O"Rourke who commented that in American politics, people are either

    1) Pro-abortion and anti-death penalty
    2) Anti-abortion and pro-death penalty
    I just wish I wasn't reminded of the local estate where I used to do forestry work on in my student vacs. There were pheasants all over the place and large feeders here and there in the woods and gamekeepers to protect them. It used to breed pheasants for ...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    One Conservative MP this afternoon: “Today is the day the Prime Minister is safe. Today is also the day the Conservatives lost the next general election .”

    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1529454545801252865

    Pretty much the "received wisdom".....which I'm usually sceptical about....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Sir Beer Korma is quite witty, although I can’t raise a smile. It’s clear Boris doesn’t do humility.

    Personally I don’t think it helps Boris if it sticks, it merely reminds us of the whole Partygate affair in which Boris was caught bang to rights partying and lying about it (according to the vast majority of voters).
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Been at the cinema today watching Top Gun: Maverick, anything major happened whilst I was hors de combat in the cinema?

    Operation Save Big Dog:Maverick progressing well although the audience is not yet sure if we are watching a comedy or tragedy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,836

    Leon said:


    Applicant said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Twitter is full of OUTRAGED Boris haters banging on and on about how childish and puerile and unfunny “Sir Beer Korma” is, alongside an undertone of professional comedians sheepishly saying “objectively it is quite clever, and funny, sorry, but obviously the wrong time, Boris is evil”

    So whatever you think of it, the joke has done the job. People are arguing about a pun

    Not sure what you are looking at. Beer Korma isn't trending. But here's everything related to politics that is:
    1 - PMQs
    4 - #notmovingon
    5 - #toriespartiedwhilepeopledied
    6 - Tobias Ellwood
    9 - No10
    16 - Humbled
    17 - Theresa May
    21 - The Thick of It
    22 - General Election
    24 - Wine Time Fridays
    26 - BoJo
    29 - #politicslive

    Combine that with the YouGov snap poll and he will need more than one gag to get him out of this.
    https://trends24.in/united-kingdom/


    He also got “Vladimir Corbyn” in there, which is also a clever piece of wordplay

    Boris has had some lame jokes of late. Maybe he’s hired a talented newbie
    Sir Beer Korma worked fine, but perhaps best wheeled out on another day, under the circumstances noted in the Gray Report.

    Vladimir Corbyn was neither "a clever piece of wordplay" nor particularly topical. A bit s***, really.
    A bit too much like fighting the last war, too. One wouldn't expect SKS to go on about Mrs May's policies, after all, or Ms Swinson's.
  • Pulpstar said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I can't believe the Prime Minister has the sheer effrontery to remain in office when there is now a photo, in the public domain, of him standing eating a sad meal 2 metres from the Chancellor, and all of this right next to a table, during the working day! - a table, no less, on which you can clearly see a plastic jug three-quarters-filled with cheap orange juice

    There is no end to the squalor and the lies. AND THE DEBAUCHERY

    They had a social gathering when they'd made it illegal for anyone else to do so. And then they lied about it.

    You've got no self-respect for yourself if you tolerate that.
    lol. We can all see the photos
    We can see a selection of the photos.

    But neatly done by Boris, dragging this out for three months and turning into a debate over the adequacy of the entertainment in No10, rather than his presiding over regular breach of his own rules and lying about it to the Commons.
    There's no lie. The photos don't show a lie.

    Do you sandwiches at work at lunchtime to be a Party? I don't. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Do you consider saying goodbye to a colleague at work during work hours to be a Party? I don't and the Police didn't either. If he didn't, he hasn't lied.

    Being wrong isn't a lie, saying something you know to be untrue is a lie and there's no evidence of that here.
    IMV there is a central question that underlines partygate, beergate, and the verbal, physical and sexual abuse of people in parliament: is there too much of a drinking culture in politics - not just the politicians, but SPADs, civil servants, workers, and journos?

    I can understand why there might be a drinking culture for many of these roles: they are stressful and multifaceted, and can involve long periods away from home and family.

    But that doesn't necessarily make it right.
    This is the thing I dislike about this 'scandal', a deep puritanism as if alcohol is verboten rather than what the law was about.

    Drinking doesn't cause abuse, abusers cause abuse and any abusers should be treated with zero tolerance but alcohol is not the cause it is not even an excuse.

    Sir Beer Korma drinking beer isn't verbally, physically or sexually abusing anyone in doing so. The PM having an Estrella as a refreshment isn't either.

    Alcohol is an acceptable and legal drink. People banging on about alcohol is as pathetic puritanism as Americans insisting that 18 year olds can't legally drink, but they can buy automatic rifles.
    To be honest, I'm not sure that 18 year olds downing cans of Tennant's while carrying loaded automatic rifles is a particularly good idea.
    Also a bit bemused that Barty doesn't understand the reason for this. Hint: 2nd amendment says one thing, 18th said another
    I understand that, I just think the 2nd amendment should get the same treatment as the 21st amendment gave to the 18th.

    Its not going to happen, but it should.
    The bar for amending the constitution is massive. 2/3rds of states !
    The Dems will never reach in a thousand years.
    Certainly they won't if they never try to win the argument.

    At the time the 18th was passed, nobody would have guessed the 21st would be passed just a few years later. In just a few years the public opinion went from 2/3rds of states in one extreme direction, to 2/3rds in the opposite extreme.

    The problem is all the pussyfooting about refusing to spell out the argument because the 2nd has taken on a quasi-religious status, or pretending that sufficiently tight laws can be passed while the 2nd stands.

    The Overton Window needs shifting and that needs people being honest and saying that the 2nd must go.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    One Conservative MP this afternoon: “Today is the day the Prime Minister is safe. Today is also the day the Conservatives lost the next general election .”

    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1529454545801252865

    Pretty much the "received wisdom".....which I'm usually sceptical about....

    Personally I put that day back during Owengate or perhaps even Lord Frost’s resignation.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,055
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Drinking and debauchery - blackford

    How dare they have these insane booze-soaked, coke and Ecstasy fuelled, pet-play hookers-on-trampolines midget sex Korean dwarf ice skating free love dope-on-motorbike orgies when the rest of us were….

    Oh.


    That is the most dull looking event, but Gray only published photos by the official photographer.

    Here's a description of the 18 June 2020 event: "The event lasted for a number of hours. There was excessive alcohol consumption by some individuals. One individual was sick. There was a minor altercation between two other individuals." Dry civil service language, but clearly more of a piss up.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I’m confused. Liz said the Uk were going to send ships to the Black Sea, didn’t she? It did seem weird…

    And now she’s saying they’re NOT going to scrap the NIP?

    The government are all over the place, like a mad woman’s breakfast.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,036
    edited May 2022

    One Conservative MP this afternoon: “Today is the day the Prime Minister is safe. Today is also the day the Conservatives lost the next general election .”

    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1529454545801252865

    Pretty much the "received wisdom".....which I'm usually sceptical about....

    It's absolutely ridiculous making assumptions about the course of the next election two years ahead.

    Three months ahead you can have a fair idea. Even then, lots can happen as we saw in 2017.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Drinking and debauchery - blackford

    How dare they have these insane booze-soaked, coke and Ecstasy fuelled, pet-play hookers-on-trampolines midget sex Korean dwarf ice skating free love dope-on-motorbike orgies when the rest of us were….

    Oh.


    That is the most dull looking event, but Gray only published photos by the official photographer.

    Here's a description of the 18 June 2020 event: "The event lasted for a number of hours. There was excessive alcohol consumption by some individuals. One individual was sick. There was a minor altercation between two other individuals." Dry civil service language, but clearly more of a piss up.
    The publication of the specific photos extraordinarily helpful to the PM. Publishing all the photos or none would have been more damaging, rather than just a handful of the official ones that they thought would be fine for the press anyway!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Ugh, ugh, ugh.


    Don't worry Bozo is leading your party into the next election...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    I’m confused. Liz said the Uk were going to send ships to the Black Sea, didn’t she? It did seem weird…

    And now she’s saying they’re NOT going to scrap the NIP?

    The government are all over the place, like a mad woman’s breakfast.

    Liz must be spitting nails this afternoon. All that effort and BigDog is saved.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Fishing said:

    One Conservative MP this afternoon: “Today is the day the Prime Minister is safe. Today is also the day the Conservatives lost the next general election .”

    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1529454545801252865

    Pretty much the "received wisdom".....which I'm usually sceptical about....

    It's absolutely ridiculous making assumptions about the course of the next election two years ahead.

    Three months ahead you can have a fair idea.
    Ok but this is PB.

    So get with the programme or go to politicalbanalities.com

    I believe they are currently violently agreeing that Boris has a large majority, although some note it is no longer 80.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The ConHome view:

    Gray’s report and @BorisJohnson's future. Gulliver begins to break free from the cords that binds him.

    https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1529469155145023489
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    I’m confused. Liz said the Uk were going to send ships to the Black Sea, didn’t she? It did seem weird…

    And now she’s saying they’re NOT going to scrap the NIP?

    The government are all over the place, like a mad woman’s breakfast.

    I find it simplest to assume all this governments policy announcements are simply to get favourable headlines in the Mail and Express, and not make the mistake of assuming they will be in line with future government actions.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    Been at the cinema today watching Top Gun: Maverick, anything major happened whilst I was hors de combat in the cinema?

    Putin resigned due to getting a Fixed Penalty Notice for War Crimes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    I’m confused. Liz said the Uk were going to send ships to the Black Sea, didn’t she? It did seem weird…

    And now she’s saying they’re NOT going to scrap the NIP?

    The government are all over the place, like a mad woman’s breakfast.

    She's more full of shit than a colostomy bag.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,055

    So was that it? All the past six months over that? "Meh" sums it up completely.

    Time to move on from Partygate, Beergate and all these other trivial and puritanical -gates and concentrate on real issues like the Economy.

    And the first thing to do to fix the Economy is the Conservatives should oust Boris Johnson and replace him with someone prepared to trim back the state and cut taxes rather than expand it and raise them.

    The report is drily written, it doesn't actually go particularly in depth on lots of issues, but it is clearly damning. There was widespread partying at No. 10 in breach of COVID-19 regulations and senior leadership, including Johnson, bear responsibility.

    People, like Lee Cain, were warning that these parties broke the rules. It is hard to see how Johnson can seriously claim that he had no idea of anything dubious going on. He clearly knowingly misled Parliament (and continues to do so).
This discussion has been closed.