Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Noise. Probably just one punter making a trade that only marginally affects the price in a fairly illiquid market.
My own personal view, as I’ve been saying - even in the darkest days of partygate - is that 2024 or later, is value. It remains so.
Perhaps - even probably. But it is another moment of danger for him, as he prepares to sacrifice various minions (of varying culpability) in his stead.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
The next election could be after POTUS elections 2024?
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
The next election could be after POTUS elections 2024?
It could be, January 2025 is the limit, so there is a possibility Johnson could have PM Salvini or PM Meloni and President Trump or President DeSantis for company as fellow conservative leaders in the G7 by the time he has to face re election
For at least the next year however, only Fumio Kishida can keep him company as a fellow conservative within the G7 and amongst the anglosphere leaders he now has no fellow conservatives for company at all after Morrison's defeat
As a former Prime Minister once said, I take full responsibility for what happened and that is why the individual responsible has been sacked.
Greater love hath no man than this, that he should lay down his friends for his life.
Said Jeremy Thorpe in 1963...
But Boris can't do that, because he doesn't have (m)any friends. Mostly minions.
I suppose the bigger question is the Donald Trump one- is there anything that Boris could do which would bring down sufficient wrath to eject him from the Premiership before the next General Election?
And if push comes to shove, is he petulant enough to push the next GE into 2025, even if it means campaigning over Christmas?
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Boris has become a bit of a millstone. Penny Mordaunt vs. Keir Starmer, would be a different story.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
Blowback from the Trump failed coup focusing minds in the rest of the democratic world?
As a former Prime Minister once said, I take full responsibility for what happened and that is why the individual responsible has been sacked.
Greater love hath no man than this, that he should lay down his friends for his life.
Said Jeremy Thorpe in 1963...
But Boris can't do that, because he doesn't have (m)any friends. Mostly minions.
I suppose the bigger question is the Donald Trump one- is there anything that Boris could do which would bring down sufficient wrath to eject him from the Premiership before the next General Election?
And if push comes to shove, is he petulant enough to push the next GE into 2025, even if it means campaigning over Christmas?
I was thinking more of the irony of what happened to Thorpe...
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
Blowback from the Trump failed coup focusing minds in the rest of the democratic world?
The idea of political cycles, world wide, is the subject of many a byline.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
Re Australia. Amazing how quickly having a world leading Covid response gets forgotten.
Australia did better than even the often cited (by the left) New Zealand, because they kept covid at bay despite being an international hub (especially to China) and having several very large population centres.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
It’s probably just coincidence.
Having said that, conservatism has run out of ideological steam. So maybe that’s finally catching up with conservatives.
I see Shanghai back to square one, areas going back into Viagra hard lockdown.
Omicron is so contagious that lockdowns make little difference.
What worked was a high vaccination rate, especially among the elderly and vulnerable groups.
This simple fact seemed to elude quite a lot of people on PB, though.
I don't think it does on PB. The problem China has is both the vaccines.and vaccination rate, but the structure of the party is such nobody can say this zero covid declaration from the top can't work out of fear of their position as a made man.
If Case is sacked, that will mean a third CS in just four years.
If Acland-Hood goes too, that will be the third permanent US at the DFE in three years.
Perhaps we should stop referring to 'permanent' secretaries?
One of the reasons CS keeps changing is that Boris has chosen a series of incompetents who won’t seriously challenge him.
Similar problem at the BoE now.
The British state has been hollowed out because bullshit and servility has been prized over competence in recent years.
This is why “yesterday” is too late when it comes to a good time to get rid of Boris.
He's only actually appointed one so far, although it's thought he forced out Sedwill. I don't think we can call 'one' a series although I agree Case is incompetent. As is Acland-Hood.
But then most of them seem to be incompetent at the moment.
- €300M signing bonus - €100M a year salary AFTER tax - He will help to decide the coach. - He will have a say on the sporting director. - He can approve signings and sales
I see Shanghai back to square one, areas going back into Viagra hard lockdown.
Omicron is so contagious that lockdowns make little difference.
What worked was a high vaccination rate, especially among the elderly and vulnerable groups.
This simple fact seemed to elude quite a lot of people on PB, though.
I don't think it does on PB. The problem China has is both the vaccines.and vaccination rate, but the structure of the party is such nobody can say this zero covid declaration from the top can't work out of fear of their position as a made man.
There were quite a few people on PB demanding another lockdown for Omicron, because a new surge in infections meant We Must Do Something. And Lockdown is Something.
Re Australia. Amazing how quickly having a world leading Covid response gets forgotten.
Australia did better than even the often cited (by the left) New Zealand, because they kept covid at bay despite being an international hub (especially to China) and having several very large population centres.
Yes. However notice WA. Morrison tried to force the Labor PM to open up to the rest of Oz. And supported court action to do so. Result. A massive swing. And possibly enough losses to give Labor a majority.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
It’s probably just coincidence.
Having said that, conservatism has run out of ideological steam. So maybe that’s finally catching up with conservatives.
Macdonald, on being excitedly asked if 1906 meant the death of the Unionists so Labour could replace them:
'Don't be a fool, boy. Reaction will survive, because reaction always survives. It's the Liberals we need to replace.'
And twenty years later he was the one who made that happen...
Conservatism will survive in some form (indeed, arguably the most conservative leader on display with his mindless nostalgia for some 1960s utopia was Corbyn). I think rather that democratic Conservative governments mostly came to power in the aftermath of the crash and are now, in the normal course of democracy, getting rather tired.
- €300M signing bonus - €100M a year salary AFTER tax - He will help to decide the coach. - He will have a say on the sporting director. - He can approve signings and sales
I don’t blame him, and in a way I don’t blame them. Mbappe is the best player of the world’s favourite sport
However, how on earth can this be squared with Financial Fair Play? Answer: it cannot. PSG makes nothing like this kind of money
If this passes UEFA then this is a green light to Saudi to spunk trillions on Newcastle
I don't know where they are getting those figures. The likes of the athletic report for instance half that as a signing on fee, which is still huge, but 150m is what it would cost to sign such a player.
If Case is sacked, that will mean a third CS in just four years.
If Acland-Hood goes too, that will be the third permanent US at the DFE in three years.
Perhaps we should stop referring to 'permanent' secretaries?
One of the reasons CS keeps changing is that Boris has chosen a series of incompetents who won’t seriously challenge him.
Similar problem at the BoE now.
The British state has been hollowed out because bullshit and servility has been prized over competence in recent years.
This is why “yesterday” is too late when it comes to a good time to get rid of Boris.
He's only actually appointed one so far, although it's thought he forced out Sedwill. I don't think we can call 'one' a series although I agree Case is incompetent. As is Acland-Hood.
But then most of them seem to be incompetent at the moment.
It must be very demoralising to be in the civil service now. All the departments seem to be dysfunctional.
The one department that people judged was doing a good job was DFiD, and that was sacrificed to appease the Daily Mail.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
- €300M signing bonus - €100M a year salary AFTER tax - He will help to decide the coach. - He will have a say on the sporting director. - He can approve signings and sales
I don’t blame him, and in a way I don’t blame them. Mbappe is the best player of the world’s favourite sport
However, how on earth can this be squared with Financial Fair Play? Answer: it cannot. PSG makes nothing like this kind of money
If this passes UEFA then this is a green light to Saudi to spunk trillions on Newcastle
FFP is a Super League by other means. If the Saudis want to spend billions on NUFC let them. Protectionism of the Big Six isn't in anyone's interests but their own.
Re Australia. Amazing how quickly having a world leading Covid response gets forgotten.
Australia did better than even the often cited (by the left) New Zealand, because they kept covid at bay despite being an international hub (especially to China) and having several very large population centres.
Yes. However notice WA. Morrison tried to force the Labor PM to open up to the rest of Oz. And supported court action to do so. Result. A massive swing. And possibly enough losses to give Labor a majority.
The thing is, generally they got the calls right, both the lockdown phase, but also moving to living with it at the right time.
- €300M signing bonus - €100M a year salary AFTER tax - He will help to decide the coach. - He will have a say on the sporting director. - He can approve signings and sales
I don’t blame him, and in a way I don’t blame them. Mbappe is the best player of the world’s favourite sport
However, how on earth can this be squared with Financial Fair Play? Answer: it cannot. PSG makes nothing like this kind of money
If this passes UEFA then this is a green light to Saudi to spunk trillions on Newcastle
FFP is a Super League by other means. If the Saudis want to spend billions on NUFC let them. Protectionism of the Big Six isn't in anyone's interests but their own.
The new champions league structure is in many ways worse than the Super League idea.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
The hard right candiate wasn't even hard right economically, loads of leftie proposals, where as Macron wants to reduce employee rights, making things more business friendly, things you typically would think a Tory government would enact.
- €300M signing bonus - €100M a year salary AFTER tax - He will help to decide the coach. - He will have a say on the sporting director. - He can approve signings and sales
I don’t blame him, and in a way I don’t blame them. Mbappe is the best player of the world’s favourite sport
However, how on earth can this be squared with Financial Fair Play? Answer: it cannot. PSG makes nothing like this kind of money
If this passes UEFA then this is a green light to Saudi to spunk trillions on Newcastle
FFP is a Super League by other means. If the Saudis want to spend billions on NUFC let them. Protectionism of the Big Six isn't in anyone's interests but their own.
I entirely agree. If UEFA let this go, then they obviously agree, too
Football has already sold its soul. They might as well get the best price possible
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
Macron was finance minister in Hollande's socialist government and while he may not be a socialist himself, Melenchon is the left's flag bearer in France now in the Presidential and upcoming legislative elections, Macron certainly is no conservative either but a centrist liberal.
As you say he was the opponent of the Nationalist right Zemmour and Le Pen and the conservative Pecresse too.
There is no doubt though there seems to be a surge away from conservatives in western elections at present and Boris will do well to defy it again in 2024
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
The hard right candiate wasn't even hard right economically.
Yes. The definitions Left and Right are now useless, bordering on counter-productive
Is Xi Jinping Left or Right? Putin? Modi? Macron? Tax n Spend Boris?
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
It’s probably just coincidence.
Having said that, conservatism has run out of ideological steam. So maybe that’s finally catching up with conservatives.
Macdonald, on being excitedly asked if 1906 meant the death of the Unionists so Labour could replace them:
'Don't be a fool, boy. Reaction will survive, because reaction always survives. It's the Liberals we need to replace.'
And twenty years later he was the one who made that happen...
Conservatism will survive in some form (indeed, arguably the most conservative leader on display with his mindless nostalgia for some 1960s utopia was Corbyn). I think rather that democratic Conservative governments mostly came to power in the aftermath of the crash and are now, in the normal course of democracy, getting rather tired.
Yes. That's kinda my thoughts. The GFC saw right leaning governments come to power. Or get entrenched. And their solutions haven't worked. Might as well let the others try. Not that they have any solutions either. I also think Culture War can be overdone too. Folk tend to forget how much energy the dying days of Major expended on it. And yet. Incumbent governments of the Centre left get re-elected in Canada and France.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
Re Australia. Amazing how quickly having a world leading Covid response gets forgotten.
Australia did better than even the often cited (by the left) New Zealand, because they kept covid at bay despite being an international hub (especially to China) and having several very large population centres.
Yes. However notice WA. Morrison tried to force the Labor PM to open up to the rest of Oz. And supported court action to do so. Result. A massive swing. And possibly enough losses to give Labor a majority.
The thing is, generally they got the calls right, both the lockdown phase, but also moving to living with it at the right time.
I see Shanghai back to square one, areas going back into Viagra hard lockdown.
Omicron is so contagious that lockdowns make little difference.
What worked was a high vaccination rate, especially among the elderly and vulnerable groups.
This simple fact seemed to elude quite a lot of people on PB, though.
I don't think it does on PB. The problem China has is both the vaccines.and vaccination rate, but the structure of the party is such nobody can say this zero covid declaration from the top can't work out of fear of their position as a made man.
What's insane is that the Pfizer vaccine is both manufactured in China and is massively more effective than local vaccine. Yet it is not approved there. (But is in Hong Kong.)
Re Australia. Amazing how quickly having a world leading Covid response gets forgotten.
Australia did better than even the often cited (by the left) New Zealand, because they kept covid at bay despite being an international hub (especially to China) and having several very large population centres.
Yes. However notice WA. Morrison tried to force the Labor PM to open up to the rest of Oz. And supported court action to do so. Result. A massive swing. And possibly enough losses to give Labor a majority.
The thing is, generally they got the calls right, both the lockdown phase, but also moving to living with it at the right time.
Folk don't want to think about it.
Just thought it was interesting. I know many more factors going on in Australia.
I see Shanghai back to square one, areas going back into Viagra hard lockdown.
Omicron is so contagious that lockdowns make little difference.
What worked was a high vaccination rate, especially among the elderly and vulnerable groups.
This simple fact seemed to elude quite a lot of people on PB, though.
I don't think it does on PB. The problem China has is both the vaccines.and vaccination rate, but the structure of the party is such nobody can say this zero covid declaration from the top can't work out of fear of their position as a made man.
What's insane is that the Pfizer vaccine is both manufactured in China and is massively more effective than local vaccine. Yet it is not approved there. (But is in Hong Kong.)
You expect rational decision making from Xi and the Chinese system?
I see Shanghai back to square one, areas going back into Viagra hard lockdown.
Omicron is so contagious that lockdowns make little difference.
What worked was a high vaccination rate, especially among the elderly and vulnerable groups.
This simple fact seemed to elude quite a lot of people on PB, though.
I don't think it does on PB. The problem China has is both the vaccines.and vaccination rate, but the structure of the party is such nobody can say this zero covid declaration from the top can't work out of fear of their position as a made man.
What's insane is that the Pfizer vaccine is both manufactured in China and is massively more effective than local vaccine. Yet it is not approved there. (But is in Hong Kong.)
I remember reading that even in Hong Kong people offered it are refusing it in preference to Chinese ones with very high rates.
From Previous Thread: May I recommend to anyone interested in the environment, Michael Shellenberger's "Appocalyse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All". Perhaps the most interesting chapter, for me, is number 10, where he describes how prominent politicians, with financial interests in fossil fuels, have worked to block nuclear power.
And there is a betting opportunity, if you don't mind very long odds. Shellenberger is running for governor of California, as an independent: https://www.shellenbergerforgovernor.com/
They could do worse, and they almost certainly will.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
The hardline anti-Global Warming stuff is becoming untenable in Australia - the climate is literally changing. Visibly.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
The hard right candiate wasn't even hard right economically.
Yes. The definitions Left and Right are now useless, bordering on counter-productive
Is Xi Jinping Left or Right? Putin? Modi? Macron? Tax n Spend Boris?
Most major western democracies still have a main party of the conservative centre right and the centre left. In all those nations which do outside of the UK the centre left are now in power in Germany, Italy, Spain, Australia, Canada (whose Liberal party is basically centre left) etc. You can also add smaller nations like New Zealand and Sweden and Denmark and Portugal etc, with Greece the only other exception with a conservative government and at a push Ireland and Israel.
The major exceptions in not having 2 main conservative centre right and centre left parties are the US and France, which have a centrist liberal party and a Nationalist right party as their 2 main parties now and in both those nations it is also the liberals in power not the Nationalists (in France the conservatives were near wiped out in the Presidential election and face heavy losses in the legislative elections and the establishment conservatives in the GOP have also been near eliminated by Trumpite Nationalists). The Netherlands has a liberal government too.
Xi is left and on the Marxist wing of the Chinese Communist Party with some Nationalism thrown in, Modi is a conservative Nationalist as is Putin and Bolsonaro in Brazil so conservative Nationalism is doing better in the developing world albeit Bolsonaro may lose to Lula later in the year
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
But it isn't one result. It's a trend, like it or not.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
The hard right candiate wasn't even hard right economically.
Yes. The definitions Left and Right are now useless, bordering on counter-productive
Is Xi Jinping Left or Right? Putin? Modi? Macron? Tax n Spend Boris?
You were going on about lefty elites yesterday, and last week. And the week before that.
Fair point
By lefty I generally mean self-identified Woke Progressives, these days. Their economic beliefs are almost irrelevant
Increasingly, Woke v The Rest is a more useful demarcation, at least in the Anglosphere, than Left v Right
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
The hardline anti-Global Warming stuff is becoming untenable in Australia - the climate is literally changing. Visibly.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
But it isn't one result. It's a trend, like it or not.
It's also worth considering that in most Western countries the main parties of the Left are, economically much to the Right of where they would have been in 198x.
Australian 2022 general election result > handwriting on the wall for Boris & "true" Tories?
Mene mene tekel upharsin
Election results overseas do not mean anything for other countries, or at most very little.
The writing may be on the wall for him, but that won't be a sign of it. It's fun to read too much into different elections with different issues and histories, but fun is all it is.
- €300M signing bonus - €100M a year salary AFTER tax - He will help to decide the coach. - He will have a say on the sporting director. - He can approve signings and sales
Staggering. 😳”
Money aside, no player is so good for a team they should be catered to so much.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
But it isn't one result. It's a trend, like it or not.
It's also worth considering that in most Western countries the main parties of the Left are, economically much to the Right of where they would have been in 198x.
Which is what gets the Corbynistas so upset.
Some not all, Albanese for example will be the most leftwing Labor PM since Whitlam in the 1970s, he is certainly left of Hawke and Keating
Has only just sunk in I witnessed an attempted murder on Wednesday. Am only just realising how many little ways it has affected me. The first person I told face-to-face asked me when it happened? I thought. And thought. And said some time at the weekend. This was on Thursday afternoon.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
The hard right candiate wasn't even hard right economically.
Yes. The definitions Left and Right are now useless, bordering on counter-productive
Is Xi Jinping Left or Right? Putin? Modi? Macron? Tax n Spend Boris?
Most major western democracies still have a main party of the conservative centre right and the centre left. In all those nations which do outside of the UK the centre left are now in power in Germany, Italy, Spain, Australia, Canada (whose Liberal party is basically centre left) etc. You can also add smaller nations like New Zealand and Sweden and Denmark and Portugal etc, with Greece the only other exception with a conservative government.
The major exceptions in not having 2 main conservative centre right and centre left parties are the US and France, which have a centrist liberal party and a Nationalist right party as their 2 main parties now and in both those nations it is also the liberals in power not the Nationalists (in France the conservatives were near wiped out in the Presidential election and face heavy losses in the legislative elections and the establishment conservatives in the GOP have also been near eliminated by Trumpite Nationalists).
Xi is left and on the Marxist wing of the Chinese Communist Party with some Nationalism thrown in, Modi is a conservative Nationalist as is Putin and Bolsonaro in Brazil so conservative Nationalism is doing better in the developing world albeit Bolsonaro may lose to Lula later in the year
I really don’t believe Xi Jinping is on the “Left” let alone a “Marxist”
China is one of the most ruthlessly capitalist countries on earth. Darwinianly so
Xi Jinping’s China is Sui Generis. If I had to describe it, I would say it is State Directed Surveillance Capitalism run by Oligarchic Authoritarian ethno-Nationalists. What the fuck do you call that with one word? Dunno, but it sure doesn’t fit the glib Left Right model which is now hideously outdated (unsurprisingly, since it dates from the French Revolution)
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
The hardline anti-Global Warming stuff is becoming untenable in Australia - the climate is literally changing. Visibly.
Particularly when it is on fire.
Australia is frightening enough in the dry season in 'normal' times. An Eucalyptus forest is a giant firelighter. Very disconcerting.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
The hard right candiate wasn't even hard right economically.
Yes. The definitions Left and Right are now useless, bordering on counter-productive
Is Xi Jinping Left or Right? Putin? Modi? Macron? Tax n Spend Boris?
Most major western democracies still have a main party of the conservative centre right and the centre left. In all those nations which do outside of the UK the centre left are now in power in Germany, Italy, Spain, Australia, Canada (whose Liberal party is basically centre left) etc. You can also add smaller nations like New Zealand and Sweden and Denmark and Portugal etc, with Greece the only other exception with a conservative government.
The major exceptions in not having 2 main conservative centre right and centre left parties are the US and France, which have a centrist liberal party and a Nationalist right party as their 2 main parties now and in both those nations it is also the liberals in power not the Nationalists (in France the conservatives were near wiped out in the Presidential election and face heavy losses in the legislative elections and the establishment conservatives in the GOP have also been near eliminated by Trumpite Nationalists).
Xi is left and on the Marxist wing of the Chinese Communist Party with some Nationalism thrown in, Modi is a conservative Nationalist as is Putin and Bolsonaro in Brazil so conservative Nationalism is doing better in the developing world albeit Bolsonaro may lose to Lula later in the year
I really don’t believe Xi Jinping is on the “Left” let alone a “Marxist”
China is one of the most ruthlessly capitalist countries on earth. Darwinianly so
Xi Jinping’s China is Sui Generis. If I had to describe it, I would say it is State Directed Surveillance Capitalism run by Oligarchic Authoritarian ethno-Nationalists. What the fuck do you call that with one word? Dunno, but it sure doesn’t fit the glib Left Right model which is now hideously outdated (unsurprisingly, since it dates from the French Revolution)
We Need New Words
Is it? China has the greatest concentration of state ownership of industry in the developed world too and any billlionaire who gets on the wrong side of Beijing will find themselves jailed or shot.
China is not Singapore or even Hong Kong as was anymore under Xi, that is clear
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
But it isn't one result. It's a trend, like it or not.
It's also worth considering that in most Western countries the main parties of the Left are, economically much to the Right of where they would have been in 198x.
Which is what gets the Corbynistas so upset.
Well yes. Although most mainstream Parties of the Right are heck of a lot more socially liberal.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
The hardline anti-Global Warming stuff is becoming untenable in Australia - the climate is literally changing. Visibly.
Particularly when it is on fire.
Although that’s not been helped by changing management practices around clearing plant matter. And don’t forget that the Australian bush thrives on fire for renewal.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
The hard right candiate wasn't even hard right economically.
Yes. The definitions Left and Right are now useless, bordering on counter-productive
Is Xi Jinping Left or Right? Putin? Modi? Macron? Tax n Spend Boris?
Most major western democracies still have a main party of the conservative centre right and the centre left. In all those nations which do outside of the UK the centre left are now in power in Germany, Italy, Spain, Australia, Canada (whose Liberal party is basically centre left) etc. You can also add smaller nations like New Zealand and Sweden and Denmark and Portugal etc, with Greece the only other exception with a conservative government.
The major exceptions in not having 2 main conservative centre right and centre left parties are the US and France, which have a centrist liberal party and a Nationalist right party as their 2 main parties now and in both those nations it is also the liberals in power not the Nationalists (in France the conservatives were near wiped out in the Presidential election and face heavy losses in the legislative elections and the establishment conservatives in the GOP have also been near eliminated by Trumpite Nationalists).
Xi is left and on the Marxist wing of the Chinese Communist Party with some Nationalism thrown in, Modi is a conservative Nationalist as is Putin and Bolsonaro in Brazil so conservative Nationalism is doing better in the developing world albeit Bolsonaro may lose to Lula later in the year
I really don’t believe Xi Jinping is on the “Left” let alone a “Marxist”
China is one of the most ruthlessly capitalist countries on earth. Darwinianly so
Xi Jinping’s China is Sui Generis. If I had to describe it, I would say it is State Directed Surveillance Capitalism run by Oligarchic Authoritarian ethno-Nationalists. What the fuck do you call that with one word? Dunno, but it sure doesn’t fit the glib Left Right model which is now hideously outdated (unsurprisingly, since it dates from the French Revolution)
We Need New Words
Is it? China has the greatest concentration of state ownership of industry in the developed world too and any billlionaire who gets on the wrong side of Beijing will find themselves jailed or shot.
China is not Singapore or even Hong Kong as was anymore under Xi, that is clear
But any visitor to, say, Shanghai in 2019, would have no problem distinguishing it from, say, Leningrad or Warsaw in.1959
China is brutally, dazzlingly capitalist. A very different form of capitalism to the one we know, but still capitalist
Marxism has no role whatsoever in modern Chinese politics
Australian 2022 general election result > handwriting on the wall for Boris & "true" Tories?
Mene mene tekel upharsin
Election results overseas do not mean anything for other countries, ot at most very little.
The writing may be on the wall for him, but that won't be a sign of it. It's fun to read too much into different elections with different issues and histories, but fun is all it is.
Your general thesis is flawed IMHO. Reading too much into it is bad, but ignoring clear similarities is just as bad, and maybe worse. Depending on the level of analysis.
As for Australia 2022 and UK whenever, perhaps you should check out the analysis I posted previous thread from ABC.net.au and check out the rather interesting parallels between the two situations?
I mean, Morrison is practically Johnson without the fright wig. While Albanese come off as a virtual clone of Starmer. Just TWO similarities, check for yourself and reckon you'll find more.
Australian 2022 general election result > handwriting on the wall for Boris & "true" Tories?
Mene mene tekel upharsin
Election results overseas do not mean anything for other countries, ot at most very little.
The writing may be on the wall for him, but that won't be a sign of it. It's fun to read too much into different elections with different issues and histories, but fun is all it is.
Wise words. I find it intensely strange that people are so invested in the left/right doing well in a country they have little or nothing to do with. The way some people on here despise Trudeau or Morrison is a little daft considering only a few seem to have any ties at all with those countries.
Obviously the parties involved themselves sometimes play up their similarities, and it's not like there are never any at all, but as reliable indicators of political trends globally? No.
And as you note how much do people generally really know about leaders of other places, and their parties? Do the Canadian Tories align perfectly with the UK Tories? Do Labor agree on everything with Labour? Especially when you factor in names can mislead, as the Liberal Democrats of UK, Japan and Russia could tell you. Yet people will judge what they regard as a counterpart as if it were like their home party.
And even if they did align perfectly with a UK party ideologically, the differing histories and contexts render any direct comparison to be of reduced benefit.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
But it isn't one result. It's a trend, like it or not.
It's also worth considering that in most Western countries the main parties of the Left are, economically much to the Right of where they would have been in 198x.
Which is what gets the Corbynistas so upset.
Some not all, Albanese for example will be the most leftwing Labor PM since Whitlam in the 1970s, he is certainly left of Hawke and Keating
Is he? His programme wasn't that radical. I suppose that's definition again. I mean his climate policies are timid by Boris' standards.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
The hardline anti-Global Warming stuff is becoming untenable in Australia - the climate is literally changing. Visibly.
Particularly when it is on fire.
Although that’s not been helped by changing management practices around clearing plant matter. And don’t forget that the Australian bush thrives on fire for renewal.
If not left and right then. Mainstream Conservatism has had a shocking run of results lately.
Different countries have different factors but perhaps a general pattern that it became associated too much with privilege and stopped being aspirational.
So in the UK and USA this led to the loss of urban and younger voters.
But these were replaced by working class voters from the industrial areas and perhaps some ethnic voters breaking away from the left.
In France the working class voters were instead picked up by the FN.
Australian 2022 general election result > handwriting on the wall for Boris & "true" Tories?
Mene mene tekel upharsin
Election results overseas do not mean anything for other countries, ot at most very little.
The writing may be on the wall for him, but that won't be a sign of it. It's fun to read too much into different elections with different issues and histories, but fun is all it is.
Your general thesis is flawed IMHO. Reading too much into it is bad, but ignoring clear similarities is just as bad, and maybe worse. Depending on the level of analysis.
As for Australia 2022 and UK whenever, perhaps you should check out the analysis I posted previous thread from ABC.net.au and check out the rather interesting parallels between the two situations?
I mean, Morrison is practically Johnson without the fright wig. While Albanese come off as a virtual clone of Starmer. Just TWO similarities, check for yourself and reckon you'll find more.
He also ran a Red Wall strategy. With a little success. Only to find his Blue Wall collapsed. Strategy and messaging definitely has a read across. Especially in societies as similar as Oz and us.
Australian 2022 general election result > handwriting on the wall for Boris & "true" Tories?
Mene mene tekel upharsin
Election results overseas do not mean anything for other countries, ot at most very little.
The writing may be on the wall for him, but that won't be a sign of it. It's fun to read too much into different elections with different issues and histories, but fun is all it is.
Your general thesis is flawed IMHO. Reading too much into it is bad, but ignoring clear similarities is just as bad, and maybe worse. Depending on the level of analysis.
As for Australia 2022 and UK whenever, perhaps you should check out the analysis I posted previous thread from ABC.net.au and check out the rather interesting parallels between the two situations?
I mean, Morrison is practically Johnson without the fright wig. While Albanese come off as a virtual clone of Starmer. Just TWO similarities, check for yourself and reckon you'll find more.
I disagree completely, not least because you've misinterpreted my premise. The issue is finding paralllels, which as you note exist, and then transplanting ready made commentary and solutions as if the two are identical, even when those parallels can be very superficial. And even if some of them are not, it is simply not the case that the political environments and contexts of different nations fit together exactly. We do not face the precise same issues as Australia, we do not have the history of France, or America, or other places. Only generalities will transfer well, and that is not very useful.
I think reading too much into such things is overwhelmingly more likely than not reading enough into it, because naturally we tend to fit politics and history into our own frames of reference. This person is the Boris of Australia, the Trump of Brazil, the Corbyn of France etc etc. That's fun, it is useful to a point as it helps us understand the broad thrust of things, but what you have done is well beyond that, it is applying a direct correlation between distinct electoral events.
And for another thing, I think snapshot analyses of election results is usually wrong anyway. Once the data and trends are examined in depth over months or years, snap takes about what happened, be it youthquakes or something else, are often mistaken and yet the myth of them never dies (I read recently that was the case about Obama's winning coalition, but haven't enough knowledge to know if that is a fair case).
So I think the idea reading too little is as big or bigger a risk or mistake as reading too much into the parallels is far more flawed. It's what political consultants sell - I got Morrison elected, I can for you too - but messaging and situation matter far more than, and those just will not carry over, and so a loss or win for one will not presage a loss or win elsewhere.
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
But it isn't one result. It's a trend, like it or not.
It's also worth considering that in most Western countries the main parties of the Left are, economically much to the Right of where they would have been in 198x.
Which is what gets the Corbynistas so upset.
Some not all, Albanese for example will be the most leftwing Labor PM since Whitlam in the 1970s, he is certainly left of Hawke and Keating
Is he? His programme wasn't that radical. I suppose that's definition again. I mean his climate policies are timid by Boris' standards.
He wants to go on a spending spree such that it will lead to a $4.7 billion rise in the Australian deficit, that is certainly way left of Keating's fiscally conservative budgets in the 1980s.
His government is also closely linked to the unions and will impose fines for anti competitive behaviour and crack down on tax avoidance and give an Indigenous peoples' 'Voice' in Parliament and Albanese unlike Boris has called bans on trans players in sports 'cynical and divisive'
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
But it isn't one result. It's a trend, like it or not.
It's also worth considering that in most Western countries the main parties of the Left are, economically much to the Right of where they would have been in 198x.
Which is what gets the Corbynistas so upset.
Some not all, Albanese for example will be the most leftwing Labor PM since Whitlam in the 1970s, he is certainly left of Hawke and Keating
Is he? His programme wasn't that radical. I suppose that's definition again. I mean his climate policies are timid by Boris' standards.
Notion that Albanese is the Red Menace is just recycled crap from Oz that didn't work there cause for reason you cite. Just typical of "true" Tories whistling into their own . . . err . . . wind.
Australian 2022 general election result > handwriting on the wall for Boris & "true" Tories?
Mene mene tekel upharsin
Election results overseas do not mean anything for other countries, ot at most very little.
The writing may be on the wall for him, but that won't be a sign of it. It's fun to read too much into different elections with different issues and histories, but fun is all it is.
Your general thesis is flawed IMHO. Reading too much into it is bad, but ignoring clear similarities is just as bad, and maybe worse. Depending on the level of analysis.
As for Australia 2022 and UK whenever, perhaps you should check out the analysis I posted previous thread from ABC.net.au and check out the rather interesting parallels between the two situations?
I mean, Morrison is practically Johnson without the fright wig. While Albanese come off as a virtual clone of Starmer. Just TWO similarities, check for yourself and reckon you'll find more.
He also ran a Red Wall strategy. With a little success. Only to find his Blue Wall collapsed. Strategy and messaging definitely has a read across. Especially in societies as similar as Oz and us.
His red wall strategy worked when he won in 2019, not in 2022 when his blue wall collapsed.
A lesson for Boris there that while still appealing to blue collar working class voters in ex industrial areas he cannot ignore upper middle class voters in affluent areas either
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
But Macron is not of the left. I’d say he is centre at most, more like centre-Right. He was just opposed by the Hard Right so he appeared “Left”
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
The hard right candiate wasn't even hard right economically.
Yes. The definitions Left and Right are now useless, bordering on counter-productive
Is Xi Jinping Left or Right? Putin? Modi? Macron? Tax n Spend Boris?
Most major western democracies still have a main party of the conservative centre right and the centre left. In all those nations which do outside of the UK the centre left are now in power in Germany, Italy, Spain, Australia, Canada (whose Liberal party is basically centre left) etc. You can also add smaller nations like New Zealand and Sweden and Denmark and Portugal etc, with Greece the only other exception with a conservative government.
The major exceptions in not having 2 main conservative centre right and centre left parties are the US and France, which have a centrist liberal party and a Nationalist right party as their 2 main parties now and in both those nations it is also the liberals in power not the Nationalists (in France the conservatives were near wiped out in the Presidential election and face heavy losses in the legislative elections and the establishment conservatives in the GOP have also been near eliminated by Trumpite Nationalists).
Xi is left and on the Marxist wing of the Chinese Communist Party with some Nationalism thrown in, Modi is a conservative Nationalist as is Putin and Bolsonaro in Brazil so conservative Nationalism is doing better in the developing world albeit Bolsonaro may lose to Lula later in the year
I really don’t believe Xi Jinping is on the “Left” let alone a “Marxist”
China is one of the most ruthlessly capitalist countries on earth. Darwinianly so
Xi Jinping’s China is Sui Generis. If I had to describe it, I would say it is State Directed Surveillance Capitalism run by Oligarchic Authoritarian ethno-Nationalists. What the fuck do you call that with one word? Dunno, but it sure doesn’t fit the glib Left Right model which is now hideously outdated (unsurprisingly, since it dates from the French Revolution)
We Need New Words
Is it? China has the greatest concentration of state ownership of industry in the developed world too and any billlionaire who gets on the wrong side of Beijing will find themselves jailed or shot.
China is not Singapore or even Hong Kong as was anymore under Xi, that is clear
But any visitor to, say, Shanghai in 2019, would have no problem distinguishing it from, say, Leningrad or Warsaw in.1959
China is brutally, dazzlingly capitalist. A very different form of capitalism to the one we know, but still capitalist
Marxism has no role whatsoever in modern Chinese politics
60% of China's market capitalisation comes from state owned enterprises, that is not capitalism on any definition and certainly not the capitalism of Thatcherite privatisations
Australian 2022 general election result > handwriting on the wall for Boris & "true" Tories?
Mene mene tekel upharsin
Election results overseas do not mean anything for other countries, ot at most very little.
The writing may be on the wall for him, but that won't be a sign of it. It's fun to read too much into different elections with different issues and histories, but fun is all it is.
Your general thesis is flawed IMHO. Reading too much into it is bad, but ignoring clear similarities is just as bad, and maybe worse. Depending on the level of analysis.
As for Australia 2022 and UK whenever, perhaps you should check out the analysis I posted previous thread from ABC.net.au and check out the rather interesting parallels between the two situations?
I mean, Morrison is practically Johnson without the fright wig. While Albanese come off as a virtual clone of Starmer. Just TWO similarities, check for yourself and reckon you'll find more.
He also ran a Red Wall strategy. With a little success. Only to find his Blue Wall collapsed. Strategy and messaging definitely has a read across. Especially in societies as similar as Oz and us.
His red wall strategy worked when he won in 2019, not in 2022 when his blue wall collapsed.
A lesson for Boris there that while still appealing to blue collar working class voters in ex industrial areas he cannot ignore upper middle class voters in affluent areas either
If not left and right then. Mainstream Conservatism has had a shocking run of results lately.
Different countries have different factors but perhaps a general pattern that it became associated too much with privilege and stopped being aspirational.
So in the UK and USA this led to the loss of urban and younger voters.
But these were replaced by working class voters from the industrial areas and perhaps some ethnic voters breaking away from the left.
In France the working class voters were instead picked up by the FN.
Source?
Well who else was voting for Le Pen ?
She certainly did well in the old industrial areas.
If not left and right then. Mainstream Conservatism has had a shocking run of results lately.
Different countries have different factors but perhaps a general pattern that it became associated too much with privilege and stopped being aspirational.
So in the UK and USA this led to the loss of urban and younger voters.
But these were replaced by working class voters from the industrial areas and perhaps some ethnic voters breaking away from the left.
In France the working class voters were instead picked up by the FN.
Source?
Even in 2017 Le Pen won 56% of bluecollar workers and expanded on that in 2022, her coalition is closer to Boris and Trump's on that score, minus pensioners who Macron won. The French Conservatives meanwhile under Pecresse got an even lower voteshare in the presidential election this year than May's Tories in the European elections of 2019 before Boris took over.
On the confusion of names: In discussing Australian politics, American journalists often use this odd formulation: the "conservative Liberal Party".
But we are confused here, too: A "progressive" in the United States generally favors social insurance policies like those pioneered by Bismark, bicycles, and trains, all from 19th century in the US. And, of course, windmills are far older. And a "progressive" is likely to oppose GMOs and adhere to what can fairly be caused nature worship, which dates back even further.
Australian 2022 general election result > handwriting on the wall for Boris & "true" Tories?
Mene mene tekel upharsin
Election results overseas do not mean anything for other countries, ot at most very little.
The writing may be on the wall for him, but that won't be a sign of it. It's fun to read too much into different elections with different issues and histories, but fun is all it is.
Your general thesis is flawed IMHO. Reading too much into it is bad, but ignoring clear similarities is just as bad, and maybe worse. Depending on the level of analysis.
As for Australia 2022 and UK whenever, perhaps you should check out the analysis I posted previous thread from ABC.net.au and check out the rather interesting parallels between the two situations?
I mean, Morrison is practically Johnson without the fright wig. While Albanese come off as a virtual clone of Starmer. Just TWO similarities, check for yourself and reckon you'll find more.
I disagree completely, not least because you've misinterpreted my premise. The issue is finding paralllels, which as you note exist, and then transplanting ready made commentary and solutions as if the two are identical, even when those parallels can be very superficial. And even if some of them are not, it is simply not the case that the political environments and contexts of different nations fit together exactly. We do not face the precise same issues as Australia, we do not have the history of France, or America, or other places. Only generalities will transfer well, and that is not very useful.
I think reading too much into such things is overwhelmingly more likely than not reading enough into it, because naturally we tend to fit politics and history into our own frames of reference. This person is the Boris of Australia, the Trump of Brazil, the Corbyn of France etc etc. That's fun, it is useful to a point as it helps us understand the broad thrust of things, but what you have done is well beyond that, it is applying a direct correlation between distinct electoral events.
And for another thing, I think snapshot analyses of election results is usually wrong anyway. Once the data and trends are examined in depth over months or years, snap takes about what happened, be it youthquakes or something else, are often mistaken and yet the myth of them never dies (I read recently that was the case about Obama's winning coalition, but haven't enough knowledge to know if that is a fair case).
So I think the idea reading too little is as big or bigger a risk or mistake as reading too much into the parallels is far more flawed. It's what political consultants sell - I got Morrison elected, I can for you too - but messaging and situation matter far more than, and those just will not carry over, and so a loss or win for one will not presage a loss or win elsewhere.
You make some good points. Still think you are going overboard in the direction you are going, though you've rowed back a ways from original contention that connections were
Again, have you actually looked at any of the Oz analysis, or even the actual results so far? Could make your argument less theoretical.
And as for misinterpreting your argument, think that YOU missed my point - one of which is that the fact that Morrison was done in, in part, by gender gap including "Teal" independents who ripped the heart out of his caucus, is a warning to Boris & Co, and a signal to the UK opposition.
India is not fascist, it is the biggest democracy in the world unlike the authoritarian dictatorship in China.
It may have a conservative nationalist leader at the moment but India is also more capitalist than China too and it has a left liberal opposition party that has often been in power in the Congress party
Interesting stuff. Certainly made me think. Thanks to all so far. Plenty to ponder over. One minor thing which hasn't been commented on here. Because it's profoundly cultural. But is of interest to me because RL. ScoMo made great strides forward as a "man of the people". He's a genuine rugby league fan. Season ticket holder. Still seen at games whilst PM. And positively engaged too. Not just sitting there. He knows the sport. And the working class sport too. This helped cement his "battling Ocker" reputation. Against Shorten. But Labor responded with Albanese. A season ticket holder too. Who knows RL back to front. And can hold his own discussing the role of the second.pivot and the advantages and disadvantages of kicking on the third tackle quite as well as Morrison. This neutralised some of that appeal. But. What really did was club support. Sco Mo is a fan of Cronulla. A ritzy, wealthy area on the southern beaches. And not overly successful. Albanese. South Sydney Rabbitohs. The most working class of all the teams possibly excepting Wests. And historically the most successful. I am more average bloke than yow. And more successful, too. A bit like genuinely supporting Brighton or Sunderland. A really strange, very oddly minor, example of how an electorally advantageous quirk of character can become a net negative.
Worrying, but it's much less transmissable than SARS-CoV-2. It's the sort of thing where good contact tracing can knock an outbreak on the head. Fortunately, the UK Government has created a world-leading health security agency for just this sort of situation in UKHSA...
Johnson will survive, he avoided wipeout in the local elections and the poll rating for the Tories is not yet devastating.
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Yes. There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months. Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening. Not why isn't being widely commented on.
I expect post Covid the need for continued state support for businesses and families is a factor, cultural overreach by some conservatives in the culture wars ignoring climate change etc and being too aggressive on immigration and trans (even if many swing voters have concerns about them).
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
I think you're reading far too much into the Australian result. It was probably just that people were fed up with the Liberal coalition after 9 years in power.
But it isn't one result. It's a trend, like it or not.
It's also worth considering that in most Western countries the main parties of the Left are, economically much to the Right of where they would have been in 198x.
Which is what gets the Corbynistas so upset.
Some not all, Albanese for example will be the most leftwing Labor PM since Whitlam in the 1970s, he is certainly left of Hawke and Keating
Is he? His programme wasn't that radical. I suppose that's definition again. I mean his climate policies are timid by Boris' standards.
Notion that Albanese is the Red Menace is just recycled crap from Oz that didn't work there cause for reason you cite. Just typical of "true" Tories whistling into their own . . . err . . . wind.
Whatever he is, he made me a 50% return on the cash I plonked on him a couple of months back. Something you can't often say of a run of the mill Red Menace.
On the confusion of names: In discussing Australian politics, American journalists often use this odd formulation: the "conservative Liberal Party".
But we are confused here, too: A "progressive" in the United States generally favors social insurance policies like those pioneered by Bismark, bicycles, and trains, all from 19th century in the US. And, of course, windmills are far older. And a "progressive" is likely to oppose GMOs and adhere to what can fairly be caused nature worship, which dates back even further.
What's odd? Conservatives are often liberal too. That's a very common political position.
Conservatives normally need to win some liberals to win general elections, the same with Labour and socialists and social democrats
Xi’s China is unique because its antecedents are unique: a Stalinist autocracy that became a Habsburg-style authoritarian bureaucracy that then became a nationalist paternalist autocracy.
It’s going the way of Iran, but with the CCP taking the place of Shia Islam.
Comments
My own personal view, as I’ve been saying - even in the darkest days of partygate - is that 2024 or later, is value. It remains so.
https://mobile.twitter.com/USEmbassyKyiv/status/1528063753518030849
😁
He will have a harder time being re elected though, leftwingers on twitter predictably already saying Trump and Morrison now down and only Boris left to go. As of tomorrow when Albanese is sworn in as PM of Australia, Boris will be the only conservative leader left in the Anglosphere and G7 outside of Japan. At least until Italy votes next summer there is no prospect of that changing
Probably NOT!
Said Jeremy Thorpe in 1963...
But it is another moment of danger for him, as he prepares to sacrifice various minions (of varying culpability) in his stead.
Mene mene tekel upharsin
For at least the next year however, only Fumio Kishida can keep him company as a fellow conservative within the G7 and amongst the anglosphere leaders he now has no fellow conservatives for company at all after Morrison's defeat
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/21/natwests-sir-howard-davies-im-quite-pessimistic-brexit-was-a-significant-mistake
I suppose the bigger question is the Donald Trump one- is there anything that Boris could do which would bring down sufficient wrath to eject him from the Premiership before the next General Election?
And if push comes to shove, is he petulant enough to push the next GE into 2025, even if it means campaigning over Christmas?
There doesn't seem to be much serious attention paid to this trend. You and me have mentioned it a few times over the past several months.
Do you have a theory why?
Edit. Why it is happening.
Not why isn't being widely commented on.
If Acland-Hood goes too, that will be the third permanent US at the DFE in three years.
Perhaps we should stop referring to 'permanent' secretaries?
As of tomorrow the West will have its greatest concentration of world leaders from the centre or liberal left since the late 1990s, when Blair, Schroder, Clinton, Clark, Chretien, Prodi and D'Alema and Jospin as French PM were in power (with Chirac as conservative President still).
Then Howard in Australia and Aznar in Spain defied the trend, now Spain and Australia also have centre left PMs with Boris left alone amongst the Scholz, Biden, Ardern, Trudeau, Conte, Macron, Sanchez and Albanese crowd of the liberal left
Australia did better than even the often cited (by the left) New Zealand, because they kept covid at bay despite being an international hub (especially to China) and having several very large population centres.
Similar problem at the BoE now.
The British state has been hollowed out because bullshit and servility has been prized over competence in recent years.
This is why “yesterday” is too late when it comes to a good time to get rid of Boris.
What worked was a high vaccination rate, especially among the elderly and vulnerable groups.
This simple fact seemed to elude quite a lot of people on PB, though.
Having said that, conservatism has run out of ideological steam. So maybe that’s finally catching up with conservatives.
But then most of them seem to be incompetent at the moment.
- €300M signing bonus
- €100M a year salary AFTER tax
- He will help to decide the coach.
- He will have a say on the sporting director.
- He can approve signings and sales
Staggering. 😳”
https://twitter.com/sportbible/status/1528028321988104195?s=21&t=PW87_4TELUsSTJpO89gUKQ
I don’t blame him, and in a way I don’t blame them. Mbappe is the best player of the world’s favourite sport
However, how on earth can this be squared with Financial Fair Play? Answer: it cannot. PSG makes nothing like this kind of money
If this passes UEFA then this is a green light to Saudi to spunk trillions on Newcastle
Result. A massive swing. And possibly enough losses to give Labor a majority.
'Don't be a fool, boy. Reaction will survive, because reaction always survives. It's the Liberals we need to replace.'
And twenty years later he was the one who made that happen...
Conservatism will survive in some form (indeed, arguably the most conservative leader on display with his mindless nostalgia for some 1960s utopia was Corbyn). I think rather that democratic Conservative governments mostly came to power in the aftermath of the crash and are now, in the normal course of democracy, getting rather tired.
The one department that people judged was doing a good job was DFiD, and that was sacrificed to appease the Daily Mail.
That’s if these definitions have any utility remaining, which is doubtful in itself
If the Saudis want to spend billions on NUFC let them.
Protectionism of the Big Six isn't in anyone's interests but their own.
Football has already sold its soul. They might as well get the best price possible
As you say he was the opponent of the Nationalist right Zemmour and Le Pen and the conservative Pecresse too.
There is no doubt though there seems to be a surge away from conservatives in western elections at present and Boris will do well to defy it again in 2024
Is Xi Jinping Left or Right? Putin? Modi? Macron? Tax n Spend Boris?
That's kinda my thoughts. The GFC saw right leaning governments come to power. Or get entrenched. And their solutions haven't worked. Might as well let the others try. Not that they have any solutions either.
I also think Culture War can be overdone too. Folk tend to forget how much energy the dying days of Major expended on it.
And yet. Incumbent governments of the Centre left get re-elected in Canada and France.
https://twitter.com/mugecevik/status/1528029335734697984
Mainstream Conservatism has had a shocking run of results lately.
Why?
And there is a betting opportunity, if you don't mind very long odds. Shellenberger is running for governor of California, as an independent: https://www.shellenbergerforgovernor.com/
They could do worse, and they almost certainly will.
The major exceptions in not having 2 main conservative centre right and centre left parties are the US and France, which have a centrist liberal party and a Nationalist right party as their 2 main parties now and in both those nations it is also the liberals in power not the Nationalists (in France the conservatives were near wiped out in the Presidential election and face heavy losses in the legislative elections and the establishment conservatives in the GOP have also been near eliminated by Trumpite Nationalists). The Netherlands has a liberal government too.
Xi is left and on the Marxist wing of the Chinese Communist Party with some Nationalism thrown in, Modi is a conservative Nationalist as is Putin and Bolsonaro in Brazil so conservative Nationalism is doing better in the developing world albeit Bolsonaro may lose to Lula later in the year
By lefty I generally mean self-identified Woke Progressives, these days. Their economic beliefs are almost irrelevant
Increasingly, Woke v The Rest is a more useful demarcation, at least in the Anglosphere, than Left v Right
Which is what gets the Corbynistas so upset.
The writing may be on the wall for him, but that won't be a sign of it. It's fun to read too much into different elections with different issues and histories, but fun is all it is.
Am only just realising how many little ways it has affected me.
The first person I told face-to-face asked me when it happened?
I thought. And thought. And said some time at the weekend. This was on Thursday afternoon.
China is one of the most ruthlessly capitalist countries on earth. Darwinianly so
Xi Jinping’s China is Sui Generis. If I had to describe it, I would say it is State Directed Surveillance Capitalism run by Oligarchic Authoritarian ethno-Nationalists. What the fuck do you call that with one word? Dunno, but it sure doesn’t fit the glib Left Right model which is now hideously outdated (unsurprisingly, since it dates from the French Revolution)
We Need New Words
China is not Singapore or even Hong Kong as was anymore under Xi, that is clear
China is brutally, dazzlingly capitalist. A very different form of capitalism to the one we know, but still capitalist
Marxism has no role whatsoever in modern Chinese politics
As for Australia 2022 and UK whenever, perhaps you should check out the analysis I posted previous thread from ABC.net.au and check out the rather interesting parallels between the two situations?
I mean, Morrison is practically Johnson without the fright wig. While Albanese come off as a virtual clone of Starmer. Just TWO similarities, check for yourself and reckon you'll find more.
And as you note how much do people generally really know about leaders of other places, and their parties? Do the Canadian Tories align perfectly with the UK Tories? Do Labor agree on everything with Labour? Especially when you factor in names can mislead, as the Liberal Democrats of UK, Japan and Russia could tell you. Yet people will judge what they regard as a counterpart as if it were like their home party.
And even if they did align perfectly with a UK party ideologically, the differing histories and contexts render any direct comparison to be of reduced benefit.
I mean his climate policies are timid by Boris' standards.
So in the UK and USA this led to the loss of urban and younger voters.
But these were replaced by working class voters from the industrial areas and perhaps some ethnic voters breaking away from the left.
In France the working class voters were instead picked up by the FN.
Strategy and messaging definitely has a read across. Especially in societies as similar as Oz and us.
I think reading too much into such things is overwhelmingly more likely than not reading enough into it, because naturally we tend to fit politics and history into our own frames of reference. This person is the Boris of Australia, the Trump of Brazil, the Corbyn of France etc etc. That's fun, it is useful to a point as it helps us understand the broad thrust of things, but what you have done is well beyond that, it is applying a direct correlation between distinct electoral events.
And for another thing, I think snapshot analyses of election results is usually wrong anyway. Once the data and trends are examined in depth over months or years, snap takes about what happened, be it youthquakes or something else, are often mistaken and yet the myth of them never dies (I read recently that was the case about Obama's winning coalition, but haven't enough knowledge to know if that is a fair case).
So I think the idea reading too little is as big or bigger a risk or mistake as reading too much into the parallels is far more flawed. It's what political consultants sell - I got Morrison elected, I can for you too - but messaging and situation matter far more than, and those just will not carry over, and so a loss or win for one will not presage a loss or win elsewhere.
His government is also closely linked to the unions and will impose fines for anti competitive behaviour and crack down on tax avoidance and give an Indigenous peoples' 'Voice' in Parliament and Albanese unlike Boris has called bans on trans players in sports 'cynical and divisive'
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/do-your-job-albanese-slams-pm-s-trans-fight-20220412-p5acwa
When he was introduced to Hirohito the Emperor did a double take and turned to ask his advisor something.
It turned out the official translator had introduced him as Britain’s “Immortal Junior Typist”…
A lesson for Boris there that while still appealing to blue collar working class voters in ex industrial areas he cannot ignore upper middle class voters in affluent areas either
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_China
She certainly did well in the old industrial areas.
Don’t panic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_French_presidential_election
But we are confused here, too: A "progressive" in the United States generally favors social insurance policies like those pioneered by Bismark, bicycles, and trains, all from 19th century in the US. And, of course, windmills are far older. And a "progressive" is likely to oppose GMOs and adhere to what can fairly be caused nature worship, which dates back even further.
Again, have you actually looked at any of the Oz analysis, or even the actual results so far? Could make your argument less theoretical.
And as for misinterpreting your argument, think that YOU missed my point - one of which is that the fact that Morrison was done in, in part, by gender gap including "Teal" independents who ripped the heart out of his caucus, is a warning to Boris & Co, and a signal to the UK opposition.
Fascist.
In India?
Wannabe Fascist.
Tho it really is unique, in truth. Simplistic western models no longer apply
First Minister @NicolaSturgeon kicks off the new campaign for independence with an essay on why we need to decide Scotland’s future now
https://twitter.com/scotnational/status/1528112145120038920
It may have a conservative nationalist leader at the moment but India is also more capitalist than China too and it has a left liberal opposition party that has often been in power in the Congress party
One minor thing which hasn't been commented on here. Because it's profoundly cultural. But is of interest to me because RL.
ScoMo made great strides forward as a "man of the people". He's a genuine rugby league fan. Season ticket holder. Still seen at games whilst PM. And positively engaged too. Not just sitting there. He knows the sport. And the working class sport too. This helped cement his "battling Ocker" reputation. Against Shorten.
But Labor responded with Albanese. A season ticket holder too. Who knows RL back to front. And can hold his own discussing the role of the second.pivot and the advantages and disadvantages of kicking on the third tackle quite as well as Morrison.
This neutralised some of that appeal.
But. What really did was club support. Sco Mo is a fan of Cronulla. A ritzy, wealthy area on the southern beaches. And not overly successful.
Albanese. South Sydney Rabbitohs. The most working class of all the teams possibly excepting Wests. And historically the most successful.
I am more average bloke than yow. And more successful, too. A bit like genuinely supporting Brighton or Sunderland.
A really strange, very oddly minor, example of how an electorally advantageous quirk of character can become a net negative.
Oh, yes, and then they slashed the budget...
Something you can't often say of a run of the mill Red Menace.
It’s going the way of Iran, but with the CCP taking the place of Shia Islam.