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Johnson exit betting: Now a 54% chance he’ll survive till at least 2024 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,162
edited May 2022 in General
imageJohnson exit betting: Now a 54% chance he’ll survive till at least 2024 – politicalbetting.com

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  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna LOSE in 2024. I have a foresense
    :innocent:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited May 2022
    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foreskin
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    You'll still find him in the kitchen at parties.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    Todays poll still showed them comfortably ahead on economy. It’s the thing to watch though, along with Starmer’s minuscule best PM lead
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2022

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Not to overlook today has been another bad day for Tories in a bad week.

    Once dust of taken by surprise settles, It looks like a partygate whitewash this just one fpn for cakeambush, and the public won’t like this “got away with it” at all. Thats the bottom line. No amount of whitewashing a whitewash whitewashes a whitewash - big dog has to live with the stigma of getting away with it, one rule for them…

    Someone mentioned Private Eye having field day - Private Eye was set up primarily to attack and destroy establishment whitewash. If they can’t dine out on this latest MET disaster they should disband.

    So as well as an outcry over what looks like one rule for them, another rule for the rest of us type whitewash, the Second from bottom line is What is Boris line of defence “wait for the investigation to finish”his can kicking line of defence ended today. He has to fess up and be sorry all over again now? The last time he done sorry he came out with the Saville jibe, and all hell broke loose.

    Moving on from Partygate. What new hell comes next? It’s Coming next week 😃
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    pigeon said:

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
    As they do in the USA

    It is highly disconcerting to go to America and visit a diner and be served by someone in their late 70s. Ditto at the supermarket checkout
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited May 2022

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    Todays poll still showed them comfortably ahead on economy. It’s the thing to watch though, along with Starmer’s minuscule best PM lead
    Well you told me yesterday I have no political antenna. Nonetheless let's watch what happens.

    Are you not being selective with your polling?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    pigeon said:

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
    A financial adviser told me the same thing once. He may have been a little too frank.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    pigeon said:

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
    I doubt it, by 39 most have still bought a property and most are enrolled in workplace pensions too to top up the state pension
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited May 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    A little thread on a few interesting things I’ve heard tonight. The first is that some folk say they have received a letter from Sue Gray warning they will be identified in her report. Told some are “livid” as they didn’t realise they would be 1/ https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-19/sue-gray-plans-to-identify-senior-civil-servants-in-partygate-report
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Not to overlook today has been another bad day for Tories in a bad week.

    Once dust of taken by surprise settles, It looks like a partygate whitewash this just one fpn for cakeambush, and the public won’t like this “got away with it” at all. Thats the bottom line. No amount of whitewashing a whitewash whitewashes a whitewash - big dog has to live with the stigma of getting away with it, one rule for them…

    Someone mentioned Private Eye having field day - Private Eye was set up primarily to attack and destroy establishment whitewash. If they can’t dine out on this latest MET disaster they should disband.

    So as well as an outcry over what looks like one rule for them, another rule for the rest of us type whitewash, the Second from bottom line is What is Boris line of defence “wait for the investigation to finish”his can kicking line of defence ended today. He has to fess up and be sorry all over again now? The last time he done sorry he came out with the Saville jibe, and all hell broke loose.

    Moving on from Partygate. What new hell comes next? It’s Coming next week 😃
    I had no idea so many on pb were actually met detectives working the partygate case. That can be the only explanation for why you all think it’s a whitewash. You must have seen the evidence.
    126 fpn issued and you call it a whitewash?
    Insane.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj
    I still think that's the favourite outcome.
    It seems a little curious that is a common view of many of the lefter posters.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638

    You'll still find him in the kitchen at parties.

    Doing "job interviews" it is called nowadays.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    It's not difficult to nail Boris. It's just that the group with the power to take this action, Conservative MPs, have no spine and no decency.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    Yep, he's going to win the next GE, isn't he?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj
    I still think that's the favourite outcome.
    It seems a little curious that is a common view of many of the lefter posters.
    Con majority at 4.1 on Bfx is looking value to me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    He outdoes this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8aVgSIDJjM&list=TLGGzocZNFUhBvkxOTA1MjAyMg&t=2s
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,052

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    He needs to explain how he didn't know that multiple events he attended contravened guidance (in that they attracted multiple FPNs), at least one of which his senior advisers told him broke the rules. He needs to explain how he was ignorant of multiple further events involving his staff in his absence, but which left after-effects like breaking his son's stuff. He needs to explain how he didn't know about a culture at No. 10 that ignored all the rules.

    I say he needs to explain... he clearly can't.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Now that the Met have finished their investigation publishing photos from the events won’t have any legal ramifications so I’d be shocked if some of these haven’t found their way to the press . I expect there are quite a few disgruntled civil servants who have been hung out to dry willing to oblige .
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    pigeon said:

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
    To be honest, that is the demographic imperative. The 18-65 population simply cannot support so many economic dependents.

    Much will be part time work, but full time retirement on a good pension is going to be a rare thing in coming decades.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    He needs to explain how he didn't know that multiple events he attended contravened guidance (in that they attracted multiple FPNs), at least one of which his senior advisers told him broke the rules. He needs to explain how he was ignorant of multiple further events involving his staff in his absence, but which left after-effects like breaking his son's stuff. He needs to explain how he didn't know about a culture at No. 10 that ignored all the rules.

    I say he needs to explain... he clearly can't.
    He can. He simply needs to say that at the time he didn't think it was a breach of the rules, but he accepts now that it was, and that lessons have been learnt.

    That's the problem with accusing people of lying. It isn't enough to prove that they're wrong, you need to prove that they knew at the time that they were. Being wrong != lying, to err is human.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Scott_xP said:

    A little thread on a few interesting things I’ve heard tonight. The first is that some folk say they have received a letter from Sue Gray warning they will be identified in her report. Told some are “livid” as they didn’t realise they would be 1/ https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-19/sue-gray-plans-to-identify-senior-civil-servants-in-partygate-report

    I remain unconvinced we will ever see this Gray report other than perhaps some executive summary bullshit.

    I doubt I will be alive when the 30 year rule expires and the report is finally made public.

    The whole thing is becoming an establishment stitch up.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Hint, Hint, Hint?

    Politico.com - Kenney steps down as leader of Alberta’s Conservatives
    Only half of the United Conservative Party voted in support of his leadership. 'I will respect the decision,' he said.

    Alberta Premier Jason Kenney scraped out a narrow win in a referendum on his leadership, then surprised almost everyone Wednesday night by stepping down as leader of the United Conservative Party.

    He announced the news Wednesday after earning just 51.4 percent support in a leadership review.

    “The result is not what I hoped for, or frankly what I expected,” said Kenney. “But I’ve been clear from day one, that I will respect the decision of the members in this leadership review.”

    Kenney had long insisted he would consider anything over 50 percent a passing grade, but on Wednesday night he announced it would be inadequate to get by on a squeaker.

    “A large number of our members want to clear the air with a leadership election,” Kenney said. “I fully respect their decision, and I encourage all members to do the same.”

    Earlier this week on a trip to Washington he told reporters, “I’ve never lost an election, and I don’t plan on doing so now.”

    He said the results were a surprise, though had also prepared remarks. In his resignation speech, Kenney listed the challenges of the past two years.

    “We went through three once-in-a-century crises — the largest public health crisis in a century, the largest collapse of the world economy in nearly a century, and — for the first time ever — we experienced negative oil prices.”

    Kenney had served as premier of Alberta since 2019. Before that, he’d been an MP for almost 20 years, serving in various posts in Stephen Harper’s Cabinet.

    He urged Albertans to move forward. “It’s clear that the past two years were deeply divisive for our province, our party and our caucus,” he said. “But it is my fervent hope that in the months to come, we all move on past the division of Covid.”

    Kenney said he has advised his party leadership to schedule a leadership election “in a timely fashion.”

    The Calgary Herald reports that the UCP caucus will meet Thursday morning when they are expected to select an interim leader.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/18/kenney-steps-down-leader-albertas-conservatives-00033655
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,242
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj
    I still think that's the favourite outcome.
    It seems a little curious that is a common view of many of the lefter posters.
    The question I would ask of those who can remember is - does this feel like 1995 or 2008?

    Certainly, I think in 1995 it already looked like the Tories were on their way out. In 2008, it looked bad for lab after the bottled election.

    I still see Starmer as being in the mould of Kinnock or Howard - the guy who fixes the damage of the previous disastrous incumbent but not able to win.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    Yep, he's going to win the next GE, isn't he?
    I did report a few weeks that I had lunch with an ex-SPAD who was absolutely convinced BJ would run again in 2024 and win. Got some stick for that.

    Not looking so daft now, is it?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Not to overlook today has been another bad day for Tories in a bad week.

    Once dust of taken by surprise settles, It looks like a partygate whitewash this just one fpn for cakeambush, and the public won’t like this “got away with it” at all. Thats the bottom line. No amount of whitewashing a whitewash whitewashes a whitewash - big dog has to live with the stigma of getting away with it, one rule for them…

    Someone mentioned Private Eye having field day - Private Eye was set up primarily to attack and destroy establishment whitewash. If they can’t dine out on this latest MET disaster they should disband.

    So as well as an outcry over what looks like one rule for them, another rule for the rest of us type whitewash, the Second from bottom line is What is Boris line of defence “wait for the investigation to finish”his can kicking line of defence ended today. He has to fess up and be sorry all over again now? The last time he done sorry he came out with the Saville jibe, and all hell broke loose.

    Moving on from Partygate. What new hell comes next? It’s Coming next week 😃
    I had no idea so many on pb were actually met detectives working the partygate case. That can be the only explanation for why you all think it’s a whitewash. You must have seen the evidence.
    126 fpn issued and you call it a whitewash?
    Insane.
    Desperate spin from you turby. I, like yourself, not have been a met detective working on this case - but neither of us have to be Sherlock Holmes to know for a fact, police have used photographic evidence as threshold for FPNs

    20.5.20 BYOB
    19.6.20 PM birthday cake ambush PHOTO EVIDENCE
    13.11.20 Lee Cain leaving
    13.11.20 No.10 flat - interviewing someone for a job in middle of ABBA party
    17.12.20 Capt Steve Higham leaving
    14.1.21 Private secs leaving

    Yes it’s a Whitewash. You know it’s a whitewash. It goes down in history as famous whitewash.

    We also both know incriminating photos will just keep coming, this so called end is just the start. How do we know this? Simon Case didn’t get one. All his junior staff did 😆
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    MrEd said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    Yep, he's going to win the next GE, isn't he?
    I did report a few weeks that I had lunch with an ex-SPAD who was absolutely convinced BJ would run again in 2024 and win. Got some stick for that.

    Not looking so daft now, is it?
    Yes it is.

    The voters have sussed him as the lazy, useless buffoon he is. There’s one thing the voters of this country won’t tolerate, a PM who puts himself before his country - that is exactly what Boris had done each time he has lied to us.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    He needs to explain how he didn't know that multiple events he attended contravened guidance (in that they attracted multiple FPNs), at least one of which his senior advisers told him broke the rules. He needs to explain how he was ignorant of multiple further events involving his staff in his absence, but which left after-effects like breaking his son's stuff. He needs to explain how he didn't know about a culture at No. 10 that ignored all the rules.

    I say he needs to explain... he clearly can't.
    He can. He simply needs to say that at the time he didn't think it was a breach of the rules, but he accepts now that it was, and that lessons have been learnt.

    That's the problem with accusing people of lying. It isn't enough to prove that they're wrong, you need to prove that they knew at the time that they were. Being wrong != lying, to err is human.
    Feck off love. Just feck off
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Not to overlook today has been another bad day for Tories in a bad week.

    Once dust of taken by surprise settles, It looks like a partygate whitewash this just one fpn for cakeambush, and the public won’t like this “got away with it” at all. Thats the bottom line. No amount of whitewashing a whitewash whitewashes a whitewash - big dog has to live with the stigma of getting away with it, one rule for them…

    Someone mentioned Private Eye having field day - Private Eye was set up primarily to attack and destroy establishment whitewash. If they can’t dine out on this latest MET disaster they should disband.

    So as well as an outcry over what looks like one rule for them, another rule for the rest of us type whitewash, the Second from bottom line is What is Boris line of defence “wait for the investigation to finish”his can kicking line of defence ended today. He has to fess up and be sorry all over again now? The last time he done sorry he came out with the Saville jibe, and all hell broke loose.

    Moving on from Partygate. What new hell comes next? It’s Coming next week 😃
    I had no idea so many on pb were actually met detectives working the partygate case. That can be the only explanation for why you all think it’s a whitewash. You must have seen the evidence.
    126 fpn issued and you call it a whitewash?
    Insane.
    Desperate spin from you turby. I, like yourself, not have been a met detective working on this case - but neither of us have to be Sherlock Holmes to know for a fact, police have used photographic evidence as threshold for FPNs

    20.5.20 BYOB
    19.6.20 PM birthday cake ambush PHOTO EVIDENCE
    13.11.20 Lee Cain leaving
    13.11.20 No.10 flat - interviewing someone for a job in middle of ABBA party
    17.12.20 Capt Steve Higham leaving
    14.1.21 Private secs leaving

    Yes it’s a Whitewash. You know it’s a whitewash. It goes down in history as famous whitewash.

    We also both know incriminating photos will just keep coming, this so called end is just the start. How do we know this? Simon Case didn’t get one. All his junior staff did 😆
    Yep. :+1:

    Those juniors will have photos chocking up their iphones and now have a bloody good reason to slip them to the press on the quiet.

    Incidently, BBC just said that everyone at birthday cake gig was fined but ITV saying no, simon case was there with Sunak and has not been fined.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj
    I still think that's the favourite outcome.
    It seems a little curious that is a common view of many of the lefter posters.
    The question I would ask of those who can remember is - does this feel like 1995 or 2008?

    Certainly, I think in 1995 it already looked like the Tories were on their way out. In 2008, it looked bad for lab after the bottled election.

    I still see Starmer as being in the mould of Kinnock or Howard - the guy who fixes the damage of the previous disastrous incumbent but not able to win.
    More like 1992 to me. The Tories don't deserve to win, but neither do Labour.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited May 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    A little thread on a few interesting things I’ve heard tonight. The first is that some folk say they have received a letter from Sue Gray warning they will be identified in her report. Told some are “livid” as they didn’t realise they would be 1/ https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-19/sue-gray-plans-to-identify-senior-civil-servants-in-partygate-report

    I remain unconvinced we will ever see this Gray report other than perhaps some executive summary bullshit.

    I doubt I will be alive when the 30 year rule expires and the report is finally made public.

    The whole thing is becoming an establishment stitch up.
    It is reported that Sue Gray is seeking to name senior civil servants but their unions and hr departments are resisting disclosure.

    It would be ironic if the unions succeed in redacting the names of those at the centre of this
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    nico679 said:

    Now that the Met have finished their investigation publishing photos from the events won’t have any legal ramifications so I’d be shocked if some of these haven’t found their way to the press . I expect there are quite a few disgruntled civil servants who have been hung out to dry willing to oblige .

    Spot on. This is the moment Partygate really begins, because this is the first day it has become them against us.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Not to overlook today has been another bad day for Tories in a bad week.

    Once dust of taken by surprise settles, It looks like a partygate whitewash this just one fpn for cakeambush, and the public won’t like this “got away with it” at all. Thats the bottom line. No amount of whitewashing a whitewash whitewashes a whitewash - big dog has to live with the stigma of getting away with it, one rule for them…

    Someone mentioned Private Eye having field day - Private Eye was set up primarily to attack and destroy establishment whitewash. If they can’t dine out on this latest MET disaster they should disband.

    So as well as an outcry over what looks like one rule for them, another rule for the rest of us type whitewash, the Second from bottom line is What is Boris line of defence “wait for the investigation to finish”his can kicking line of defence ended today. He has to fess up and be sorry all over again now? The last time he done sorry he came out with the Saville jibe, and all hell broke loose.

    Moving on from Partygate. What new hell comes next? It’s Coming next week 😃
    I had no idea so many on pb were actually met detectives working the partygate case. That can be the only explanation for why you all think it’s a whitewash. You must have seen the evidence.
    126 fpn issued and you call it a whitewash?
    Insane.
    Desperate spin from you turby. I, like yourself, not have been a met detective working on this case - but neither of us have to be Sherlock Holmes to know for a fact, police have used photographic evidence as threshold for FPNs

    20.5.20 BYOB
    19.6.20 PM birthday cake ambush PHOTO EVIDENCE
    13.11.20 Lee Cain leaving
    13.11.20 No.10 flat - interviewing someone for a job in middle of ABBA party
    17.12.20 Capt Steve Higham leaving
    14.1.21 Private secs leaving

    Yes it’s a Whitewash. You know it’s a whitewash. It goes down in history as famous whitewash.

    We also both know incriminating photos will just keep coming, this so called end is just the start. How do we know this? Simon Case didn’t get one. All his junior staff did 😆
    You have not seen the evidence presented.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    He needs to explain how he didn't know that multiple events he attended contravened guidance (in that they attracted multiple FPNs), at least one of which his senior advisers told him broke the rules. He needs to explain how he was ignorant of multiple further events involving his staff in his absence, but which left after-effects like breaking his son's stuff. He needs to explain how he didn't know about a culture at No. 10 that ignored all the rules.

    I say he needs to explain... he clearly can't.
    He can. He simply needs to say that at the time he didn't think it was a breach of the rules, but he accepts now that it was, and that lessons have been learnt.

    That's the problem with accusing people of lying. It isn't enough to prove that they're wrong, you need to prove that they knew at the time that they were. Being wrong != lying, to err is human.
    I suspect all those who believed it was a genuine error on Johnson's part are relieved at his exoneration. The rest of us who didn't believe a word of his cock and bull story still don't.

    I don't suppose many minds have been changed.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
    As they do in the USA

    It is highly disconcerting to go to America and visit a diner and be served by someone in their late 70s. Ditto at the supermarket checkout
    Thank goodness we’re not at that stage yet, but people need to be made aware that if they don’t contribute to a decent pension when they are working, they may never be able to retire. Unfortunately, too many people can’t even live for today on their income, let alone plan for the future. Workplace pensions, although a good thing, will not provide much more than subsistence. Who wants to merely subsist?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Oh we make the standards and we make the rules
    And if you don't abide by them you must be a fool
    We have the power to control the whole land
    You never must question our motives or plans -
    cause well outlaw your voices, do anything we want
    we've nothing to fear from the nation
    Well throw you out of your houses if you get too much
    If we have to well destroy your generation
    cause we've built up a frontage and we've gained respect
    there's no one to endanger our position -
    Standards rule ok.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    nico679 said:

    Now that the Met have finished their investigation publishing photos from the events won’t have any legal ramifications so I’d be shocked if some of these haven’t found their way to the press . I expect there are quite a few disgruntled civil servants who have been hung out to dry willing to oblige .

    Spot on. This is the moment Partygate really begins, because this is the first day it has become them against us.
    What exactly did you want? 10 years in the slammer for all at no 10?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
    I doubt it, by 39 most have still bought a property and most are enrolled in workplace pensions too to top up the state pension
    Much of the population are not owner-occupiers and have no hope whatsoever of becoming so. As for occupational pensions, the overwhelming majority (especially in the private sector) are money purchase, which are appalling value due to long life expectancy and the resultant rock bottom annuity rates.

    The sums you have to plough into them to achieve a comfortable fraction of your working income at retirement are colossal. I used to work in pensions administration twenty years ago and savers were often shocked by how little their fat contributions were projected to buy them in the way of income at pensionable age, and things have only got worse since. Even we lucky few who are still accruing defined benefits have seen our contributions jacked up hugely in recent years and our accrual rates slashed.

    Much of the population has nothing left after paying essential costs like rent or mortgage, food and fuel, and is already bridging the gaps with credit cards or making serious economies. How in the name of God are people meant to afford to blow a quarter or a third of their post-tax income for anything up to a fifty-year career to fund a decent pension at the end of it?

    They can't afford it, so they'll end up working until they drop.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    People on here keep saying this. The public don’t care about lying in the House though. Perhaps they should, but they don’t.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    edited May 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    Boris made it quite explicitly clear in the commons that there were no parties, all rules were followed at all times. He lied.

    He had all the truth in his head. Something else came out his mouth.

    I think he could still lead them into the election, though more likely voncked out soon enough. But he won’t win the voters back, after lying to them about this.

    Even Ant and Dec got it, six months ago. Why can’t you still not get it?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    Yep, he's going to win the next GE, isn't he?
    I did report a few weeks that I had lunch with an ex-SPAD who was absolutely convinced BJ would run again in 2024 and win. Got some stick for that.

    Not looking so daft now, is it?
    Yes it is.

    The voters have sussed him as the lazy, useless buffoon he is. There’s one thing the voters of this country won’t tolerate, a PM who puts himself before his country - that is exactly what Boris had done each time he has lied to us.
    In your dreams.

    They will elect Boris again in 2024.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    Boris made it quite explicitly clear in the commons that there were no parties, all rules were followed at all times. He lied.

    He had all the truth in his head. Something else came out his mouth.

    I think he could still lead them into the election, though more likely voncked out soon enough. But he won’t win the voters back, after lying to them about this.
    I think we all know that the cost of living trumps everything else and how that pans out will determine GE24, not partygate or beergate
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj
    I agree. Few on here “get” his appeal and so are blind to it. As discussed on the last thread though, he does need Russia beaten, fairly quickly.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Hint, Hint, Hint?

    Politico.com - Kenney steps down as leader of Alberta’s Conservatives
    Only half of the United Conservative Party voted in support of his leadership. 'I will respect the decision,' he said.

    Alberta Premier Jason Kenney scraped out a narrow win in a referendum on his leadership, then surprised almost everyone Wednesday night by stepping down as leader of the United Conservative Party.

    He announced the news Wednesday after earning just 51.4 percent support in a leadership review.

    “The result is not what I hoped for, or frankly what I expected,” said Kenney. “But I’ve been clear from day one, that I will respect the decision of the members in this leadership review.”

    Kenney had long insisted he would consider anything over 50 percent a passing grade, but on Wednesday night he announced it would be inadequate to get by on a squeaker.

    “A large number of our members want to clear the air with a leadership election,” Kenney said. “I fully respect their decision, and I encourage all members to do the same.”

    Earlier this week on a trip to Washington he told reporters, “I’ve never lost an election, and I don’t plan on doing so now.”

    He said the results were a surprise, though had also prepared remarks. In his resignation speech, Kenney listed the challenges of the past two years.

    “We went through three once-in-a-century crises — the largest public health crisis in a century, the largest collapse of the world economy in nearly a century, and — for the first time ever — we experienced negative oil prices.”

    Kenney had served as premier of Alberta since 2019. Before that, he’d been an MP for almost 20 years, serving in various posts in Stephen Harper’s Cabinet.

    He urged Albertans to move forward. “It’s clear that the past two years were deeply divisive for our province, our party and our caucus,” he said. “But it is my fervent hope that in the months to come, we all move on past the division of Covid.”

    Kenney said he has advised his party leadership to schedule a leadership election “in a timely fashion.”

    The Calgary Herald reports that the UCP caucus will meet Thursday morning when they are expected to select an interim leader.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/18/kenney-steps-down-leader-albertas-conservatives-00033655

    Hello sea shanty, how’s the campaign going for you?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    He needs to explain how he didn't know that multiple events he attended contravened guidance (in that they attracted multiple FPNs), at least one of which his senior advisers told him broke the rules. He needs to explain how he was ignorant of multiple further events involving his staff in his absence, but which left after-effects like breaking his son's stuff. He needs to explain how he didn't know about a culture at No. 10 that ignored all the rules.

    I say he needs to explain... he clearly can't.
    He can. He simply needs to say that at the time he didn't think it was a breach of the rules, but he accepts now that it was, and that lessons have been learnt.

    That's the problem with accusing people of lying. It isn't enough to prove that they're wrong, you need to prove that they knew at the time that they were. Being wrong != lying, to err is human.
    I suspect all those who believed it was a genuine error on Johnson's part are relieved at his exoneration. The rest of us who didn't believe a word of his cock and bull story still don't.

    I don't suppose many minds have been changed.
    Precisely my point.

    If people get fined for Starmer's Korma and Beer night then is he a lying liar for saying all rules were followed? Or was he mistaken?

    And that's just one night, if Sue Gray had spent six months trawling through his and others diary and events how many other questionable events might have been found? Would that make him a liar, or mistaken?

    Unless you can see inside someone else's mind, how do you prove a lie instead of a mistake?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    biggles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    People on here keep saying this. The public don’t care about lying in the House though. Perhaps they should, but they don’t.
    They do though. The lying equated to taking the piss out the voters. Insulting them.

    After this establishment whitewash, the junior grades getting the VPNs, the Simon Cases getting away, the voters will now turn on Boris and the Tories. Just see where the polls will be in two weeks time.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited May 2022
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
    As they do in the USA

    It is highly disconcerting to go to America and visit a diner and be served by someone in their late 70s. Ditto at the supermarket checkout
    The sad dead behind the eyes greeter at Walmart doing the night shift...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    biggles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    People on here keep saying this. The public don’t care about lying in the House though. Perhaps they should, but they don’t.
    Never said the public did. It could in theory scupper him irrespective of what they think tho
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited May 2022
    I agree with those who think that Boris will now lead the Tories into the next GE. However, I think too many people naively underestimate his capacity to cock up again (and again) over the next two years. I'm not going to list them all, but he has already presided over countless episodes of (alleged) sleaze, (alleged) corruption and lying. Why on earth would that come to an end now, two years before the next GE? Is he going to rest on his laurels? No - he will find brand new ways of messing up, because he can't help himself, and he's appointed an extraordinarily weak and pliant Cabinet that can't control him. And that's before one even considers the state of the economy.

    On that basis, unlike some of my fellow leftie travellers, I remain content to predict that the Tories will not be in government after GE 2024.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    MrEd said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    Yep, he's going to win the next GE, isn't he?
    I did report a few weeks that I had lunch with an ex-SPAD who was absolutely convinced BJ would run again in 2024 and win. Got some stick for that.

    Not looking so daft now, is it?
    Oh, is that the time? Another political betting tip from Mr Ed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638

    biggles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    People on here keep saying this. The public don’t care about lying in the House though. Perhaps they should, but they don’t.
    They do though. The lying equated to taking the piss out the voters. Insulting them.

    After this establishment whitewash, the junior grades getting the VPNs, the Simon Cases getting away, the voters will now turn on Boris and the Tories. Just see where the polls will be in two weeks time.
    Its one rule for them, another for the plebs. It always has been that way.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Pa. has 17,000 GOP mail-in ballots still to count in tight U.S. Senate race between David McCormick and Mehmet Oz

    As of 10 a.m. Thursday, there are still 17,000 Republican mail ballots that still need to be counted statewide, according to the state Department of State.

    As of Thursday afternoon, 0.1% separated candidates David McCormick and Dr. Mehmet Oz. Mr. Oz led Mr. McCormick with 31.24% of the vote, or 416,704 votes. Mr. McCormick had 31.14% of the vote, or 415,335 votes. . . .

    [Including all ballots incuding Dem statewide] 51,000 total outstanding [mail] ballots. The majority of those ballots come from the following counties and are not broken down by party:

    Philadelphia: 30,000 [mostly Democratic, in GOP primary counted so far Oz 38% versus McCormick 25% and Barnette 20%]
    Delaware: 4,800 [many Dem; among GOP so far Oz 31% versus McCormick 34% and Barnette 22%]
    Lancaster: 3,800 [so far Oz 27% versus McCorimick 27% and Barnette 30%]
    Greene: 1,777 [so far Oz 37% versus McCormick 35% and Barnette 18%]
    Tioga: 1,298 [so far Oz 27% versus McCormick 33% and Barnette 26%]

    Campaigns also are waiting for Election Day votes to be reported from approximately 65 precincts, 31 of which are in Allegheny County, which hasn’t updated its results since Wednesday around noon, and plans to convene the county Returns Board at 9 a.m. Friday. [Alleghany so far Oz 32% versus McCormick 39% and Barnette 20%]

    A senior official from the McCormick campaign said Thursday afternoon that they expect to gain at least 100 votes from the Allegheny County precincts.

    The McCormick senior official added that there are more than 1,500 military and overseas ballots that still need to be reported. Mr. McCormick’s campaign spent nearly $1 million in targeting this group, and his background as an Army paratrooper and combat veteran aligns with these voters, the official said, making the campaign confident he can win in the end.

    The official said they believe two-thirds of those military ballots will be Republican voters, and most of which will be in favor of Mr. McCormick over the “Turkish Army surgeon,” the official added, taking a jab at Mr. Oz’s Turkish military experience as a dual citizen.

    Counties will continue accepting military and overseas ballots until Tuesday, May 23 at 5 p.m.

    Mr. Oz’s campaign could not immediately be reached for comment.

    Even as the campaigns continue to wait for the remaining votes to be counted, they are simultaneously preparing for an automatic recount. An automatic recount would be scheduled if candidates are separated by 0.5% margin or less. The recount would be scheduled by Wednesday, June 1 and need to be completed by noon on June 7, according to the state election code.

    https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2022/05/19/pennsylvania-mail-ballots-gop-republican-primary-mehmet-oz-david-mccormick-lancaster-state-department/stories/202205190128
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj
    Who's tiny vaj?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Before I retired as an IFA in 2007, I only set up one annuity in my last seven years. It was for a client who had suffered a severe stroke and needed to know that his fund wouldn’t deprive him of his benefits in the future. Everyone else went for a more flexible option. If interest rates rise significantly, it may be sensible for them to then switch to an annuity, but still not now.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    nico679 said:

    Now that the Met have finished their investigation publishing photos from the events won’t have any legal ramifications so I’d be shocked if some of these haven’t found their way to the press . I expect there are quite a few disgruntled civil servants who have been hung out to dry willing to oblige .

    Spot on. This is the moment Partygate really begins, because this is the first day it has become them against us.
    What exactly did you want? 10 years in the slammer for all at no 10?
    If you come across a situation where someone emails bring your own bottle, those that did get FPN, those who sent email and those who told them to send email don’t get FPN, wouldn’t you want to see fairness.

    It’s obvious what we want, it’s not complicated, the lawmakers who set the laws we followed, punished when they did not follow those rules.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    He needs to explain how he didn't know that multiple events he attended contravened guidance (in that they attracted multiple FPNs), at least one of which his senior advisers told him broke the rules. He needs to explain how he was ignorant of multiple further events involving his staff in his absence, but which left after-effects like breaking his son's stuff. He needs to explain how he didn't know about a culture at No. 10 that ignored all the rules.

    I say he needs to explain... he clearly can't.
    He can. He simply needs to say that at the time he didn't think it was a breach of the rules, but he accepts now that it was, and that lessons have been learnt.

    That's the problem with accusing people of lying. It isn't enough to prove that they're wrong, you need to prove that they knew at the time that they were. Being wrong != lying, to err is human.
    I suspect all those who believed it was a genuine error on Johnson's part are relieved at his exoneration. The rest of us who didn't believe a word of his cock and bull story still don't.

    I don't suppose many minds have been changed.
    Precisely my point.

    If people get fined for Starmer's Korma and Beer night then is he a lying liar for saying all rules were followed? Or was he mistaken?

    And that's just one night, if Sue Gray had spent six months trawling through his and others diary and events how many other questionable events might have been found? Would that make him a liar, or mistaken?

    Unless you can see inside someone else's mind, how do you prove a lie instead of a mistake?
    If it's somebody who lies all the time about everything then it's likely that he's lying.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    nico679 said:

    Now that the Met have finished their investigation publishing photos from the events won’t have any legal ramifications so I’d be shocked if some of these haven’t found their way to the press . I expect there are quite a few disgruntled civil servants who have been hung out to dry willing to oblige .

    Spot on. This is the moment Partygate really begins, because this is the first day it has become them against us.
    What exactly did you want? 10 years in the slammer for all at no 10?
    If you come across a situation where someone emails bring your own bottle, those that did get FPN, those who sent email and those who told them to send email don’t get FPN, wouldn’t you want to see fairness.

    It’s obvious what we want, it’s not complicated, the lawmakers who set the laws we followed, punished when they did not follow those rules.
    So it’s Simon Case that’s annoyed you?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    biggles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    People on here keep saying this. The public don’t care about lying in the House though. Perhaps they should, but they don’t.
    They do though. The lying equated to taking the piss out the voters. Insulting them.

    After this establishment whitewash, the junior grades getting the VPNs, the Simon Cases getting away, the voters will now turn on Boris and the Tories. Just see where the polls will be in two weeks time.
    Yeah but if the polls now turn I’ll just say it was the inflation what done it. That how political commentary works right, I don’t have to be in any way consistent?

  • IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    He needs to explain how he didn't know that multiple events he attended contravened guidance (in that they attracted multiple FPNs), at least one of which his senior advisers told him broke the rules. He needs to explain how he was ignorant of multiple further events involving his staff in his absence, but which left after-effects like breaking his son's stuff. He needs to explain how he didn't know about a culture at No. 10 that ignored all the rules.

    I say he needs to explain... he clearly can't.
    He can. He simply needs to say that at the time he didn't think it was a breach of the rules, but he accepts now that it was, and that lessons have been learnt.

    That's the problem with accusing people of lying. It isn't enough to prove that they're wrong, you need to prove that they knew at the time that they were. Being wrong != lying, to err is human.
    I suspect all those who believed it was a genuine error on Johnson's part are relieved at his exoneration. The rest of us who didn't believe a word of his cock and bull story still don't.

    I don't suppose many minds have been changed.
    Precisely my point.

    If people get fined for Starmer's Korma and Beer night then is he a lying liar for saying all rules were followed? Or was he mistaken?

    And that's just one night, if Sue Gray had spent six months trawling through his and others diary and events how many other questionable events might have been found? Would that make him a liar, or mistaken?

    Unless you can see inside someone else's mind, how do you prove a lie instead of a mistake?
    If it's somebody who lies all the time about everything then it's likely that he's lying.
    Likely isn't proof, and that's just basically saying you think he's lying because you think he's a liar - which certainly isn't.

    A reasonable supposition perhaps, but a supposition isn't proof no matter how reasonable it is.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Not to overlook today has been another bad day for Tories in a bad week.

    Once dust of taken by surprise settles, It looks like a partygate whitewash this just one fpn for cakeambush, and the public won’t like this “got away with it” at all. Thats the bottom line. No amount of whitewashing a whitewash whitewashes a whitewash - big dog has to live with the stigma of getting away with it, one rule for them…

    Someone mentioned Private Eye having field day - Private Eye was set up primarily to attack and destroy establishment whitewash. If they can’t dine out on this latest MET disaster they should disband.

    So as well as an outcry over what looks like one rule for them, another rule for the rest of us type whitewash, the Second from bottom line is What is Boris line of defence “wait for the investigation to finish”his can kicking line of defence ended today. He has to fess up and be sorry all over again now? The last time he done sorry he came out with the Saville jibe, and all hell broke loose.

    Moving on from Partygate. What new hell comes next? It’s Coming next week 😃
    I had no idea so many on pb were actually met detectives working the partygate case. That can be the only explanation for why you all think it’s a whitewash. You must have seen the evidence.
    126 fpn issued and you call it a whitewash?
    Insane.
    Desperate spin from you turby. I, like yourself, not have been a met detective working on this case - but neither of us have to be Sherlock Holmes to know for a fact, police have used photographic evidence as threshold for FPNs

    20.5.20 BYOB
    19.6.20 PM birthday cake ambush PHOTO EVIDENCE
    13.11.20 Lee Cain leaving
    13.11.20 No.10 flat - interviewing someone for a job in middle of ABBA party
    17.12.20 Capt Steve Higham leaving
    14.1.21 Private secs leaving

    Yes it’s a Whitewash. You know it’s a whitewash. It goes down in history as famous whitewash.

    We also both know incriminating photos will just keep coming, this so called end is just the start. How do we know this? Simon Case didn’t get one. All his junior staff did 😆
    You have not seen the evidence presented.
    You and I know this investigation issued VPN based on photographic evidence. At the party, but not yet in a photo the investigation has seen, no VPN. The voters won’t like this lack of fairness.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    MrEd said:

    Hint, Hint, Hint?

    Politico.com - Kenney steps down as leader of Alberta’s Conservatives
    Only half of the United Conservative Party voted in support of his leadership. 'I will respect the decision,' he said.

    Alberta Premier Jason Kenney scraped out a narrow win in a referendum on his leadership, then surprised almost everyone Wednesday night by stepping down as leader of the United Conservative Party.

    He announced the news Wednesday after earning just 51.4 percent support in a leadership review.

    “The result is not what I hoped for, or frankly what I expected,” said Kenney. “But I’ve been clear from day one, that I will respect the decision of the members in this leadership review.”

    Kenney had long insisted he would consider anything over 50 percent a passing grade, but on Wednesday night he announced it would be inadequate to get by on a squeaker.

    “A large number of our members want to clear the air with a leadership election,” Kenney said. “I fully respect their decision, and I encourage all members to do the same.”

    Earlier this week on a trip to Washington he told reporters, “I’ve never lost an election, and I don’t plan on doing so now.”

    He said the results were a surprise, though had also prepared remarks. In his resignation speech, Kenney listed the challenges of the past two years.

    “We went through three once-in-a-century crises — the largest public health crisis in a century, the largest collapse of the world economy in nearly a century, and — for the first time ever — we experienced negative oil prices.”

    Kenney had served as premier of Alberta since 2019. Before that, he’d been an MP for almost 20 years, serving in various posts in Stephen Harper’s Cabinet.

    He urged Albertans to move forward. “It’s clear that the past two years were deeply divisive for our province, our party and our caucus,” he said. “But it is my fervent hope that in the months to come, we all move on past the division of Covid.”

    Kenney said he has advised his party leadership to schedule a leadership election “in a timely fashion.”

    The Calgary Herald reports that the UCP caucus will meet Thursday morning when they are expected to select an interim leader.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/18/kenney-steps-down-leader-albertas-conservatives-00033655

    Hello sea shanty, how’s the campaign going for you?
    So far, so good. Have at least one candidate who looks like they won their primary!

    Hoping John Fetterman gets well soon AND can start hitting the campaign trail by Fall.

    For one thinng, is one progressive that has got some clue how to listen and connect and campaign with voters in rural & rust-belt America.

    And noted in story, the GOP side of PA US Senate race will NOT be decided until June.

    Provided of course GOP gubernatorial nominee does NOT lead March on Harrisburg and/or storm the state capitol.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Scott_xP said:

    A little thread on a few interesting things I’ve heard tonight. The first is that some folk say they have received a letter from Sue Gray warning they will be identified in her report. Told some are “livid” as they didn’t realise they would be 1/ https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-19/sue-gray-plans-to-identify-senior-civil-servants-in-partygate-report

    I remain unconvinced we will ever see this Gray report other than perhaps some executive summary bullshit.

    I doubt I will be alive when the 30 year rule expires and the report is finally made public.

    The whole thing is becoming an establishment stitch up.
    It is reported that Sue Gray is seeking to name senior civil servants but their unions and hr departments are resisting disclosure.

    It would be ironic if the unions succeed in redacting the names of those at the centre of this
    Why ironic? If unions are protecting the careers of its members, not serving the desire of others to know the names of those civil servants at centre of this, that’s hardly ironic.

    Unfortunately though, a point of too much information being out has already been crossed, knowing some got 5 fpn, at same time knowing Boris got 1, Simon Case 0.

    This is not remotely over is it. All that had happened today is it had taken a angry and bitter turn into a new direction, a new quite nastier thing.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    MrEd said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    Yep, he's going to win the next GE, isn't he?
    I did report a few weeks that I had lunch with an ex-SPAD who was absolutely convinced BJ would run again in 2024 and win. Got some stick for that.

    Not looking so daft now, is it?
    I've never thought the prospect of another Tory victory daft at any stage. I honestly don't remember if I've been tempted to write off Boris Johnson at any point, but I certainly wouldn't do that now, either.

    I think we all have to bear in mind that Labour's polling lead is much weaker than it should be, mid-term and facing a useless Government beset by very serious problems, it has yet to draft and attempt to sell a manifesto, and also that poor economic performance isn't necessarily fatal to the Tories either.

    If Sunak can find just enough money down the back of the Treasury settee to stop middle class elderly people from freezing to death this Winter, i.e. to help them out with the bills without resorting to raiding their property wealth in some fashion, then the Tories are still in with a shout. The Corbyn experiment has done lasting damage to Labour's image amongst much of the electorate, and if the election looks like being close then the Tories will play the Sturgeon-as-puppeteer card against Labour again, likely with some effect.

    The Conservatives don't even have to pretend to care about the young and the poor. They just need to convince the existing members of their voter coalition that Labour is hostile to their values and will hit them harder in their wallets.
  • Scott_xP said:

    A little thread on a few interesting things I’ve heard tonight. The first is that some folk say they have received a letter from Sue Gray warning they will be identified in her report. Told some are “livid” as they didn’t realise they would be 1/ https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-19/sue-gray-plans-to-identify-senior-civil-servants-in-partygate-report

    I remain unconvinced we will ever see this Gray report other than perhaps some executive summary bullshit.

    I doubt I will be alive when the 30 year rule expires and the report is finally made public.

    The whole thing is becoming an establishment stitch up.
    It is reported that Sue Gray is seeking to name senior civil servants but their unions and hr departments are resisting disclosure.

    It would be ironic if the unions succeed in redacting the names of those at the centre of this
    Why ironic? If unions are protecting the careers of its members, not serving the desire of others to know the names of those civil servants at centre of this, that’s hardly ironic.

    Unfortunately though, a point of too much information being out has already been crossed, knowing some got 5 fpn, at same time knowing Boris got 1, Simon Case 0.

    This is not remotely over is it. All that had happened today is it had taken a angry and bitter turn into a new direction, a new quite nastier thing.
    You're scraping the bottom of the barrel raw now.

    This has been done to death and even Keith was photographed drinking beer.

    Unless there's some seriously shocking photos in the Gray report, worse than a Korma and Beer night, the public is looking at their electricity bills etc not bothered about Simon Case.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    He needs to explain how he didn't know that multiple events he attended contravened guidance (in that they attracted multiple FPNs), at least one of which his senior advisers told him broke the rules. He needs to explain how he was ignorant of multiple further events involving his staff in his absence, but which left after-effects like breaking his son's stuff. He needs to explain how he didn't know about a culture at No. 10 that ignored all the rules.

    I say he needs to explain... he clearly can't.
    He can. He simply needs to say that at the time he didn't think it was a breach of the rules, but he accepts now that it was, and that lessons have been learnt.

    That's the problem with accusing people of lying. It isn't enough to prove that they're wrong, you need to prove that they knew at the time that they were. Being wrong != lying, to err is human.
    We went through this at the time. Johnson is asking people to believe that he is stupid in preference to hypocritical and dishonest. That really shouldn't be an escape route for him, but apparently British standards for our politicians are not high.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    People on here keep saying this. The public don’t care about lying in the House though. Perhaps they should, but they don’t.
    They do though. The lying equated to taking the piss out the voters. Insulting them.

    After this establishment whitewash, the junior grades getting the VPNs, the Simon Cases getting away, the voters will now turn on Boris and the Tories. Just see where the polls will be in two weeks time.
    Its one rule for them, another for the plebs. It always has been that way.
    Up until Private Eye was born early sixties that may have been the way, not in 2022 it’s not, the voters won’t stand for what’s happened today.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Apparently Johnson was told by the Met police he’d only be investigated for two of the six parties he attended .

    Quite astonishing .
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    More on PA, via
    WA Post - Who’ll win in Pennsylvania? Gaming out remaining votes in Oz vs. McCormick.

    In a move jarringly reminiscent of the 2020 election, Donald Trump on Wednesday urged his preferred candidate in the Pennsylvania Senate race to simply declare victory in a tight race before all the votes were even counted.

    Setting aside for a moment how anti-democratic that is, the former president has reason to worry.

    Trump-backed television doctor Mehmet Oz on Wednesday saw his lead shrink from about 2,700 votes to about 1,200, as mail-in votes that can’t be counted before Election Day and other votes were added to the tallies. And at this rate, it seems possible that former hedge fund manager Dave McCormick could overtake Oz, as McCormick’s campaign has repeatedly predicted he will.

    A little more than 20,000 votes were added to the totals in the 24 hours between Wednesday morning and Thursday morning, with McCormick gaining about 1,500 votes — in large part thanks to his superiority on mail ballots. That means that, for every 1,000 votes counted, he’s gaining about 70 on Oz. If that rate held, he would overtake Oz after about 17,500 more votes were tallied.

    It’s not totally clear how many ballots remain to be counted. The McCormick campaign estimated late Wednesday that about 20,000 mail ballots remain, although other estimates suggested it could be lower — as few as 12,000, PennLive.com reported overnight. The Pennsylvania secretary of state did not provide clarity on this number Wednesday morning. There also appear to be some Election Day ballots remaining in both Pittsburgh-based Allegheny County (strong for McCormick) and Philadelphia (strong for Oz), even as mail ballots make up the bulk of the remainder.

    But McCormick’s gains thus far could somewhat undersell how much he could close the gap. That’s because he’s doing better specifically on mail ballots, which are likely to be an increasing proportion of the ballots that are yet to be counted.

    McCormick is winning more than 32 percent of mail ballots, while Oz is winning about 23 percent. So for every 1,000 mail ballots (overall, not just the ones counted Wednesday), McCormick is gaining a little more than 90 votes. At that rate, he would overtake Oz after about 13,000 more mail votes were tallied. . . .

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/19/oz-mccormick-mail-votes/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    nico679 said:

    Now that the Met have finished their investigation publishing photos from the events won’t have any legal ramifications so I’d be shocked if some of these haven’t found their way to the press . I expect there are quite a few disgruntled civil servants who have been hung out to dry willing to oblige .

    Spot on. This is the moment Partygate really begins, because this is the first day it has become them against us.
    What exactly did you want? 10 years in the slammer for all at no 10?
    If you come across a situation where someone emails bring your own bottle, those that did get FPN, those who sent email and those who told them to send email don’t get FPN, wouldn’t you want to see fairness.

    It’s obvious what we want, it’s not complicated, the lawmakers who set the laws we followed, punished when they did not follow those rules.
    Chin up, Big Dog is saved. Justice is served.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Rest of WaPo analysis of remaining PA GOP US Senate Primary vote:

    . . . .So if the number of remaining mail ballots is closer to 12,000, Oz might hold on. If it’s near the 20,000 that his campaign estimated late Wednesday, McCormick would have a good shot at taking the lead.

    Whether it will shake out that way remains to be seen. Those Election Day ballots in Allegheny and Philadelphia loom potentially large, and Oz is winning the Election Day vote overall by about a percentage point. In addition, these are statewide numbers, and the final results will depend upon where the remaining ballots come from.

    For example, a big chunk of the remaining absentees is in Lancaster County, which had problems with a coding error that delayed the counting. As of Wednesday evening, Lancaster still had about 4,000 votes to be counted, and McCormick was winning them by a significantly smaller margin than he was statewide — by about 1.5 points.

    But McCormick gained significantly more ground elsewhere. He closed the gap significantly late Wednesday — by about 500 votes — thanks in part to the addition of mail votes from Beaver County, where he leads Oz on mail ballots by 14 percentage points.

    Regardless, it seems highly likely we’re headed to a contentious recount, which will mean extended scrutiny of the results, which could stretch well into next month. That’s a recipe for disaster, particularly if Trump becomes worried about his favored candidate losing after that process. In recent weeks, Trump’s candidates have lost in the Idaho and Nebraska governor’s race and in a much-watched North Carolina congressional race. And it appears very likely one will lose in the Georgia governor’s race next week, as the results in Pennsylvania continue to shake out.

    Trump has already planted the seeds for crying foul over the results. And it’s difficult to see him standing aside while a state whose election results he so extensively and baselessly impugned in 2020 conducts a recount involving his candidate of choice.

    And for that, the GOP would have its long-standing humoring of his baseless claims to thank.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    ...

    MrEd said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    Yep, he's going to win the next GE, isn't he?
    I did report a few weeks that I had lunch with an ex-SPAD who was absolutely convinced BJ would run again in 2024 and win. Got some stick for that.

    Not looking so daft now, is it?
    Oh, is that the time? Another political betting tip from Mr Ed.
    Remember, this madness of what a great day Houdini Boris has had, was sparked off by Mike Smithson posting the current betting. There’s already enough narrative in the media to know this outcome is starting to go bad for Boris and the Tories, the betting markets to be fair may be the last ones to reflect this.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    What lie? If the only fine he's got is for cake in the office, he probably didn't think that was a party any more than Starmer thought korma and a beer was a party.

    The lie line was always the weakest of the lot. Lying requires proving the other party knew it wasn't true when they said it.

    Boris deserves to go for the economy and raising taxes.
    He said to the House that "All guidance was followed completely" at No. 10. There have been 126 FPNs issued. Clearly, guidance was frequently not followed by all sorts of people over 8 dates. (And, indeed, given guidance was broader than legislation, he didn't just claim that the law was being followed but that "All guidance was followed".)
    So he was wrong according to the Met, but wrong is not a lie.

    To be a lie you need to prove he knew that having a slice of cake at lunchtime would get an FPN issued, any more than whether Starmer would (not even should) have known that Korma after a day's work might get an FPN issued.
    He needs to explain how he didn't know that multiple events he attended contravened guidance (in that they attracted multiple FPNs), at least one of which his senior advisers told him broke the rules. He needs to explain how he was ignorant of multiple further events involving his staff in his absence, but which left after-effects like breaking his son's stuff. He needs to explain how he didn't know about a culture at No. 10 that ignored all the rules.

    I say he needs to explain... he clearly can't.
    He can. He simply needs to say that at the time he didn't think it was a breach of the rules, but he accepts now that it was, and that lessons have been learnt.

    That's the problem with accusing people of lying. It isn't enough to prove that they're wrong, you need to prove that they knew at the time that they were. Being wrong != lying, to err is human.
    We went through this at the time. Johnson is asking people to believe that he is stupid in preference to hypocritical and dishonest. That really shouldn't be an escape route for him, but apparently British standards for our politicians are not high.
    Alternative view could be that it is refreshingly honest to have a politician owning up to making mistakes rather than claiming to never have done so.

    Again if Starmer is fined do you think that means he's lying in saying that he followed the rules?

    Being wrong is not a lie.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
    As they do in the USA

    It is highly disconcerting to go to America and visit a diner and be served by someone in their late 70s. Ditto at the supermarket checkout
    The sad dead behind the eyes greeter at Walmart doing the night shift...
    So I'm guessing they did NOT accept your proposed advertising campaign?

    Might try pitching it again, in the lead-up to Halloween!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj

    IshmaelZ said:

    Unbelievable. With one bound Phatboi was free.

    Lying to the House issue still to be resolved, tho

    It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall.
    Yep, he's going to win the next GE, isn't he?
    I did report a few weeks that I had lunch with an ex-SPAD who was absolutely convinced BJ would run again in 2024 and win. Got some stick for that.

    Not looking so daft now, is it?
    Yes it is.

    The voters have sussed him as the lazy, useless buffoon he is. There’s one thing the voters of this country won’t tolerate, a PM who puts himself before his country - that is exactly what Boris had done each time he has lied to us.
    In your dreams.

    They will elect Boris again in 2024.
    You don’t know that or have any evidence to support the statement. But there’s more than enough evidence how Partygate how Partygate is morphing into a bitter, them and us anger at this whitewash investigation.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    The ABBA party was allegedly a strategy meeting ! If Durham are using the same benchmark for their investigation then it would shocking if Starmer receives a FPN.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    Something forgotten, it seems, is that the original idea of owning your home went like this -

    1) you rent forever
    2) you pay a mortgage for 20 years. Then live rent free for the rest of your life.

    If you have no rent, you can live on a tiny income.

    A lot of people are going to find that the amount they are putting in pensions etc is not equal to the cost of property + living.

    Dr Palmer - you have very substantial pensions IIRC.

    Most people don’t

    Absolutely. There will be a vast cohort of people growing old in the coming decades who will never be able to afford to retire. They'll work and work and work until they either become physically incapable of working, or they drop down dead.
    I doubt it, by 39 most have still bought a property and most are enrolled in workplace pensions too to top up the state pension
    Much of the population are not owner-occupiers and have no hope whatsoever of becoming so. As for occupational pensions, the overwhelming majority (especially in the private sector) are money purchase, which are appalling value due to long life expectancy and the resultant rock bottom annuity rates.

    The sums you have to plough into them to achieve a comfortable fraction of your working income at retirement are colossal. I used to work in pensions administration twenty years ago and savers were often shocked by how little their fat contributions were projected to buy them in the way of income at pensionable age, and things have only got worse since. Even we lucky few who are still accruing defined benefits have seen our contributions jacked up hugely in recent years and our accrual rates slashed.

    Much of the population has nothing left after paying essential costs like rent or mortgage, food and fuel, and is already bridging the gaps with credit cards or making serious economies. How in the name of God are people meant to afford to blow a quarter or a third of their post-tax income for anything up to a fifty-year career to fund a decent pension at the end of it?

    They can't afford it, so they'll end up working until they drop.
    No, the vast majority of us will still be owner occupiers by retirement age, with neither rent nor mortgage to pay

    Occupational pensions then add further income beyond the state pension to retirement incomes
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,277
    Boris is the Great Survivor of British politics.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    nico679 said:

    The ABBA party was allegedly a strategy meeting ! If Durham are using the same benchmark for their investigation then it would shocking if Starmer receives a FPN.

    I think the substance is the same, but I also suspect that part of what’s saved the PM is this all happening in and around his home and his office (one and the same). Starmer might (unfairly) suffer from being away from home.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    HYUFD said:

    Boris is secure, he is close enough in the polls to Labour and having survived this year's local elections next years may even see Tory gains. Remember the Tories only got 28% NEV in May 2019

    Polls up to now and the local elections now mean nothing, if it happened before 19th May 2022, when Partygate turned ugly.

    Boris as good as put the bottles on the table and said “have a blow out”. And then left them to it. The blow out. And the FPNs.

    That one piece of understanding alone will make him unelectable in the eyes of the voters.

    Unless you can defend that as acceptable behaviour?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,277

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj
    I still think that's the favourite outcome.
    It seems a little curious that is a common view of many of the lefter posters.
    The question I would ask of those who can remember is - does this feel like 1995 or 2008?

    Certainly, I think in 1995 it already looked like the Tories were on their way out. In 2008, it looked bad for lab after the bottled election.

    I still see Starmer as being in the mould of Kinnock or Howard - the guy who fixes the damage of the previous disastrous incumbent but not able to win.
    Next election will be like 1992 or perhaps 2005.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 2022
    GIN1138 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Johnson is a lucky General...but still a dreadful Prime Minister.

    He’s gonna win in 2024. I have a foresense
    Thank you Lord Astor.

    He might, but the economy among other things has got to look a whole lot better than it does now. Unless of course you are banking on a successful culture war from Big Dog.
    I just have this weird eerie sense that he has the Luck of the Devil (also, by 2024 Sir Kir Royale will be 61, and even more boring than he is now)

    Right now I expect the Bozzer to scrape home with a tiny Maj
    I still think that's the favourite outcome.
    It seems a little curious that is a common view of many of the lefter posters.
    The question I would ask of those who can remember is - does this feel like 1995 or 2008?

    Certainly, I think in 1995 it already looked like the Tories were on their way out. In 2008, it looked bad for lab after the bottled election.

    I still see Starmer as being in the mould of Kinnock or Howard - the guy who fixes the damage of the previous disastrous incumbent but not able to win.
    Next election will be like 1992 or perhaps 2005.
    Or 2010 or 1964. However it will not be 1997 definitely
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re: one factor that may come into play NOT mentioned by excellent WaPost & Post-Gazette analysis & info, is possibility that the later a vote-by-mail ballot was marked & mailed by the voter, the more likely it will favor Oz over McC, as did the Primary Day vote but NOT earlier postals (that may be) already tabulated.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    biggles said:

    nico679 said:

    The ABBA party was allegedly a strategy meeting ! If Durham are using the same benchmark for their investigation then it would shocking if Starmer receives a FPN.

    I think the substance is the same, but I also suspect that part of what’s saved the PM is this all happening in and around his home and his office (one and the same). Starmer might (unfairly) suffer from being away from home.
    It does look like the key and of course Boris's team would have all the timings and locations recorded

    Indeed if Starmer can prove he was working we could see the same outcome, while others at beergate receive FPNs

    However there may be a twist in this tale for labour if Rayner cannot establish she was working
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited May 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    A little thread on a few interesting things I’ve heard tonight. The first is that some folk say they have received a letter from Sue Gray warning they will be identified in her report. Told some are “livid” as they didn’t realise they would be 1/ https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-19/sue-gray-plans-to-identify-senior-civil-servants-in-partygate-report

    I remain unconvinced we will ever see this Gray report other than perhaps some executive summary bullshit.

    I doubt I will be alive when the 30 year rule expires and the report is finally made public.

    The whole thing is becoming an establishment stitch up.
    It is reported that Sue Gray is seeking to name senior civil servants but their unions and hr departments are resisting disclosure.

    It would be ironic if the unions succeed in redacting the names of those at the centre of this
    Why ironic? If unions are protecting the careers of its members, not serving the desire of others to know the names of those civil servants at centre of this, that’s hardly ironic.

    Unfortunately though, a point of too much information being out has already been crossed, knowing some got 5 fpn, at same time knowing Boris got 1, Simon Case 0.

    This is not remotely over is it. All that had happened today is it had taken a angry and bitter turn into a new direction, a new quite nastier thing.
    You're scraping the bottom of the barrel raw now.

    This has been done to death and even Keith was photographed drinking beer.

    Unless there's some seriously shocking photos in the Gray report, worse than a Korma and Beer night, the public is looking at their electricity bills etc not bothered about Simon Case.
    And Starmer's going down!

    As are Rayner and Foy.

    Johnson only being investigated for two out of the five "work events" he attended is dereliction of duty.

    Had the Gray Report been published in full when Gray had completed it, Johnson was finished.

    The Met then, after a change of heart, demand the suspension of the Gray Report. In the meantime they barely investigate Johnson and they fail to investigate Case. Johnson is then considered exonerated and survives. This stinks.

    Are either Case and/or Johnson Freemasons?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,648
    Boris sends up politics, he’s the ultimate politician for those who hate politicians and just want to see the world burn.

    Until of course they get burned themselves. The longer he sticks around the more people get burned. It’s all a game.

    It will be a mess when he eventually runs out of fuel and someone has to clean up the mess.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Could not give a monkeys.
    It's a Grand Old Team, etc.
    I'm pissed...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Pelosi is tweeting on the NIP
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    A little thread on a few interesting things I’ve heard tonight. The first is that some folk say they have received a letter from Sue Gray warning they will be identified in her report. Told some are “livid” as they didn’t realise they would be 1/ https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-19/sue-gray-plans-to-identify-senior-civil-servants-in-partygate-report

    I remain unconvinced we will ever see this Gray report other than perhaps some executive summary bullshit.

    I doubt I will be alive when the 30 year rule expires and the report is finally made public.

    The whole thing is becoming an establishment stitch up.
    It is reported that Sue Gray is seeking to name senior civil servants but their unions and hr departments are resisting disclosure.

    It would be ironic if the unions succeed in redacting the names of those at the centre of this
    Why ironic? If unions are protecting the careers of its members, not serving the desire of others to know the names of those civil servants at centre of this, that’s hardly ironic.

    Unfortunately though, a point of too much information being out has already been crossed, knowing some got 5 fpn, at same time knowing Boris got 1, Simon Case 0.

    This is not remotely over is it. All that had happened today is it had taken a angry and bitter turn into a new direction, a new quite nastier thing.
    You're scraping the bottom of the barrel raw now.

    This has been done to death and even Keith was photographed drinking beer.

    Unless there's some seriously shocking photos in the Gray report, worse than a Korma and Beer night, the public is looking at their electricity bills etc not bothered about Simon Case.
    Starmer's

    Scott_xP said:

    A little thread on a few interesting things I’ve heard tonight. The first is that some folk say they have received a letter from Sue Gray warning they will be identified in her report. Told some are “livid” as they didn’t realise they would be 1/ https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-19/sue-gray-plans-to-identify-senior-civil-servants-in-partygate-report

    I remain unconvinced we will ever see this Gray report other than perhaps some executive summary bullshit.

    I doubt I will be alive when the 30 year rule expires and the report is finally made public.

    The whole thing is becoming an establishment stitch up.
    It is reported that Sue Gray is seeking to name senior civil servants but their unions and hr departments are resisting disclosure.

    It would be ironic if the unions succeed in redacting the names of those at the centre of this
    Why ironic? If unions are protecting the careers of its members, not serving the desire of others to know the names of those civil servants at centre of this, that’s hardly ironic.

    Unfortunately though, a point of too much information being out has already been crossed, knowing some got 5 fpn, at same time knowing Boris got 1, Simon Case 0.

    This is not remotely over is it. All that had happened today is it had taken a angry and bitter turn into a new direction, a new quite nastier thing.
    You're scraping the bottom of the barrel raw now.

    This has been done to death and even Keith was photographed drinking beer.

    Unless there's some seriously shocking photos in the Gray report, worse than a Korma and Beer night, the public is looking at their electricity bills etc not bothered about Simon Case.
    And Starmer's going down!

    As are Rayner and Foy.

    Johnson only being investigated for two out of the five "work events" he attended is dereliction of duty.

    Had the Gray Report been published in full when Gray had completed it, Johnson was finished.

    The Met then, after a change of heart, demand the suspension of the Gray Report. In the meantime they barely investigate Johnson and they fail to investigate Case. Johnson is then considered exonerated and survives. This stinks.

    Are either Case and/or Johnson Freemasons?
    That is quite an allegation
This discussion has been closed.