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Hunt continues to be next CON leader betting favourite – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 3 in General
imageHunt continues to be next CON leader betting favourite – politicalbetting.com

The collapse of Sunak In the next CON leader betting has left open a new battleground between five top Tories who are rated by the betting markets as having the best chance of being the one who takes over from Johnson.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    1st. Like Yorkshire Party in Wakefield.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 8,731
    2nd like a loser...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814
    I do not see Hunt succeeding Boris but a cabinet position yes
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983
    Penny Mordaunt only 4% behind Hunt though.....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814

    Penny Mordaunt only 4% behind Hunt though.....

    I find Penny an interesting possible
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,315
    Penny Mordaunt coming in from nowhere. Interesting.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 14,093
    Dave “You ‘Herd’ It Here First” Herdson will be standing in the Wakefield by-election, for the Yorkshire Nationalist Party.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420

    Penny Mordaunt only 4% behind Hunt though.....

    I find Penny an interesting possible
    Yes, I have backed her before. Fairly untainted by the Johnson regime, solidly Brexit, but also not a re-tread from previous contests.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,146
    Hunt isn't going to win. Members won't have it, he's too associated with the May regime and being too pro-EU. The suspicion is that Hunt would have signed us up to the EU vaccine scheme and his competitor will push that theory and to the old Tory members Hunt will be the candidate that would have sacrificed their lives because he still loves the EU and will secretly push the UK to rejoin.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    edited April 26
    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    image
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814
    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    That Charles Grant article reads like a love letter to Macron to me; he's hoping he'll fulfil the federalist agenda he's always dreamed of, even whilst he acknowledges (without blinking) that other EU nations are not in the same place at the same time.

    It will be interesting to revisit the article in 5 years time to see how much of it actually happened. And on that which may, such as moves on defence and security, how far they did so without substantial British support.

    Lots of Europeans and more specifically French government people just think saying "strategic autonomy" thousands of time will magically make it happen.

    In finance, defence, semi-conductors, energy and a number of other key sectors the EU is significantly or wholly reliant on an external party. With no way out, on the last check, the City has been gaining market share of financial services.

    On defence Eastern Europe will never agree to a France/Germany led defence of the realm without US and UK involvement, in fact given everything happening in Ukraine I'm almost certain that Eastern European countries would leave the EU if EU and NATO membership became mutually exclusive.

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    Finally on semi-conductors, it's the one area where Europe could potentially win back a lot of market share, Intel already has manufacturing in Ireland but at the same time, they're not domestic and Biden has, realistically, purchased all of Intel's investment capacity for the next 5-8 years for domestic production. The other major semi-conductor powers are in Asia and will be significantly less helpful to the EU than Intel. The lack of key domestic players is the issue, same as the UK. Both parties would essentially be building an industry from scratch, the US, Korea, Taiwan and Japan already have significant domestic industries and national champions like Intel, Samsung, TSMC and Sony who invest billions of dollars per year into semi-conductor development and manufacturing and dominate specific sectors.

    This kind of rhetoric may win over blinkered EUphiles or those vanishingly few people who still like Macron but the reality is that both the UK and EU will struggle to achieve anything like strategic autonomy in very many key sectors. What the UK lacks in autonomy we make up for in speed and having a dynamic economy that is able to move with the times, just talking about my little sector of tech start up investing and consulting, nothing like this industry exists anywhere in the EU.

    I think the UK has largely accepted that strategic autonomy is unlikely in a lot of sectors, it means we have to make sure our alliances count. Hence AUKUS, potentially pulling Japan into it, the new bridging security agreement for Sweden to join NATO etc... The EU seems to behave as if it were a benevolent superpower asking for favours but giving nothing in return. As I've said on many occasions, I'd start looking to tie UK-EU defence and intelligence cooperation to very long term mutual recognition in agricultural standards, financial services standards and customs pre-clearance of UK goods in key sectors and push these into the TCA and extend the TCA break period to 5 years rather than 12 months. No more freebies.

    Excellent piece
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420
    Foxy said:

    Penny Mordaunt only 4% behind Hunt though.....

    I find Penny an interesting possible
    Yes, I have backed her before. Fairly untainted by the Johnson regime, solidly Brexit, but also not a re-tread from previous contests.
    On the other hand I very rarely get leadership contests right for any party. I just cannot take seriously most of the numpties that the faithful party adore. I think "surely they can see X is a far better candidate?" but they cannot.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    edited April 26


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    First rule of Freedom Big G, Freedom has to come with responsibilities or else it’s not Freedom of which you speak but anarchy and unfairness.

    All they have to do is come along, enjoy the glass of Sherry, and say “we got it wrong - no one respecting Freedom by respecting the responsibilities that come with Freedom should publish something like that.”

    If you don’t understand the mistake you just made Big G I can paraphrase someone who once said “even Ant and Dec are ahead of the Prime Minister on this one” with “Even the Prime Minister is ahead of Big G on this one.”
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814
    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Once the speaker starts interfering in the freedom of speech then it is wrong

    He demanded a meeting with the editor to explain himself and inevitably the Mail has rejected the request, and as I said earlier even a Sky presenter was questioning what authority the speaker has to intervene
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174
    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    It might be worse than that. What if Schröder is right that German industry needs Russian resources and there isn't a real alternative? The way things are going they could face a sustained economic decline if they want to maintain their Western alliances.

    German prosperity really was built at the cost of European security.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    First rule of Freedom Big G, Freedom had to come with responsibilities or else it’s not Freedom of which you speak but anarchy and unfairness.
    That sounds like a form of sensorship
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    First rule of Freedom Big G, Freedom has to come with responsibilities or else it’s not Freedom of which you speak but anarchy and unfairness.

    All they have to do is come along, enjoy the glass of Sherry, and say “we got it wrong - no one respecting Freedom by respecting the responsibilities that come with Freedom should publish something like that.”

    If you don’t understand the mistake you just made Big G I can paraphrase someone who once said “even Ant and Dec are ahead of the Prime Minister on this one” with “Even the Prime Minister is ahead of Big G on this one.”
    You are mistaking my criticism of the speaker intervening on the press, with my well documented disgust at the article
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,483
    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Especially when it's the Daily Mail, the most pompously self-righteous of all the newspapers.

    The paper that gets furious on behalf of its readers about all sorts of trivia.

    And now, it's the snarling resentment of a nasty schoolboy who has been caught out taking a teasing too far. "We can't have been bullying her, she laughed about it."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Once the speaker starts interfering in the freedom of speech then it is wrong

    He demanded a meeting with the editor to explain himself and inevitably the Mail has rejected the request, and as I said earlier even a Sky presenter was questioning what authority the speaker has to intervene
    Considering that both benches of the HoC were offended by the Mails slurs that seems reasonable to me.

    No one has stopped the Mail repeating its misogyny, there is no restraint on the papers free speech.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Once the speaker starts interfering in the freedom of speech then it is wrong

    He demanded a meeting with the editor to explain himself and inevitably the Mail has rejected the request, and as I said earlier even a Sky presenter was questioning what authority the speaker has to intervene
    Considering that both benches of the HoC were offended by the Mails slurs that seems reasonable to me.

    No one has stopped the Mail repeating its misogyny, there is no restraint on the papers free speech.
    So when another newspaper offends the HOC as it will is the speaker to summon the editor
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    First rule of Freedom Big G, Freedom had to come with responsibilities or else it’s not Freedom of which you speak but anarchy and unfairness.
    That sounds like a form of sensorship
    In what way has the MoS been censored?

    Being told off is not censorship, it is that free speech is not free of consequences.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 33,420

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Once the speaker starts interfering in the freedom of speech then it is wrong

    He demanded a meeting with the editor to explain himself and inevitably the Mail has rejected the request, and as I said earlier even a Sky presenter was questioning what authority the speaker has to intervene
    Considering that both benches of the HoC were offended by the Mails slurs that seems reasonable to me.

    No one has stopped the Mail repeating its misogyny, there is no restraint on the papers free speech.
    So when another newspaper offends the HOC as it will is the speaker to summon the editor
    Yes, I have no problem with that.

    The Speaker can only speak words himself, he cannot ban the paper or the story.

    Why do you want to censor the Speaker?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    First rule of Freedom Big G, Freedom had to come with responsibilities or else it’s not Freedom of which you speak but anarchy and unfairness.
    That sounds like a form of sensorship
    Self “sensorship” from those who understand the difference between freedom & anarchy. If freedom doesn’t come with responsibilities it’s not freedom. Simples.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 14,093

    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    image

    Bizarre photo! Where is this from?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814

    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    image

    Bizarre photo! Where is this from?
    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1519063725529051136?t=XY0w6PQbEqyMHpzh8-SNyQ&s=19
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174
    It looks like the position of the Chief Legal Officer at Twitter is untenable:

    @esaagar
    Vijaya Gadde, the top censorship advocate at Twitter who famously gaslit the world on Joe Rogan's podcast and censored the Hunter Biden laptop story, is very upset about the @elonmusk takeover

    @elonmusk
    Replying to @esaagar
    Suspending the Twitter account of a major news organization for publishing a truthful story was obviously incredibly inappropriate


    image

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1519073003933515776
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    First rule of Freedom Big G, Freedom has to come with responsibilities or else it’s not Freedom of which you speak but anarchy and unfairness.

    All they have to do is come along, enjoy the glass of Sherry, and say “we got it wrong - no one respecting Freedom by respecting the responsibilities that come with Freedom should publish something like that.”

    If you don’t understand the mistake you just made Big G I can paraphrase someone who once said “even Ant and Dec are ahead of the Prime Minister on this one” with “Even the Prime Minister is ahead of Big G on this one.”
    You are mistaking my criticism of the speaker intervening on the press, with my well documented disgust at the article
    The fact you are trying to have it all ways hadn’t led me into a mistake at all. The Mail are claiming they can print what the hell they like, and complaints from politicians about the Mail going to far and bullying is against actually free speech. All it’s doing is smoking out those, like the journalists and editors at the Mail and their supporters everywhere, who haven’t a clue what Freedom is.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Once the speaker starts interfering in the freedom of speech then it is wrong

    He demanded a meeting with the editor to explain himself and inevitably the Mail has rejected the request, and as I said earlier even a Sky presenter was questioning what authority the speaker has to intervene
    Considering that both benches of the HoC were offended by the Mails slurs that seems reasonable to me.

    No one has stopped the Mail repeating its misogyny, there is no restraint on the papers free speech.
    So when another newspaper offends the HOC as it will is the speaker to summon the editor
    Yes, I have no problem with that.

    The Speaker can only speak words himself, he cannot ban the paper or the story.

    Why do you want to censor the Speaker?
    It seems it has caused concern among journalists by his demands for the editor to attend a meeting with him

    However, I am not wanting to take away from the disgust at the story and will leave it there
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,468

    It looks like the position of the Chief Legal Officer at Twitter is untenable:

    @esaagar
    Vijaya Gadde, the top censorship advocate at Twitter who famously gaslit the world on Joe Rogan's podcast and censored the Hunter Biden laptop story, is very upset about the @elonmusk takeover

    @elonmusk
    Replying to @esaagar
    Suspending the Twitter account of a major news organization for publishing a truthful story was obviously incredibly inappropriate


    image

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1519073003933515776

    Musk's priority is clear, Make America Gilead Again, but how he prevents the split after every other country refuses to import American speech protections - that is the big question.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398

    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    image

    Bizarre photo! Where is this from?
    I so hate that fringe.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077

    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    image

    Bizarre photo! Where is this from?
    https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1519063725529051136?t=XY0w6PQbEqyMHpzh8-SNyQ&s=19
    Personally think this is a pretty cool photo. In several ways, including (dare I say) bi-partisan baking.

    Rather flattering to both Rayner and Javid, with the Jewish News plug giving an offbeat AND appealing twist.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Once the speaker starts interfering in the freedom of speech then it is wrong

    He demanded a meeting with the editor to explain himself and inevitably the Mail has rejected the request, and as I said earlier even a Sky presenter was questioning what authority the speaker has to intervene
    Can he not withdraw lobby passes from all mail hacks? I would.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 6,259

    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    It might be worse than that. What if Schröder is right that German industry needs Russian resources and there isn't a real alternative? The way things are going they could face a sustained economic decline if they want to maintain their Western alliances.

    German prosperity really was built at the cost of European security.
    I'm far from convinced that they are totally reliant on Russian oil. Disturbingly it may be more about politics than economics.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785

    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    image

    Bizarre photo! Where is this from?
    I so hate that fringe.
    Bearing in mind it is Rayner we are talking about, has auto correct been at work, or do you disapprove of her Barnet?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    If there was a bet that Mr Herdson helps Boris lose the seat by taking disproportionately more ex Tory votes than ex Labour ones, I’d be tempted by that bet.

    The publicity here should do the Yorkshire Party the world of good. Would highlighting their candidate is Ex Tory member disillusioned by direction under Boris be a smart move for Yorkshire Party at this election or not?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077
    You have certainly declared your interest.

    PLUS given a plug to
    1. Yorkshire Party
    2. David Herdson
    3. Wakefield
    4. Politicalbetting.com
    5. Smarkets

    And in fifty words or less!

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Once the speaker starts interfering in the freedom of speech then it is wrong

    He demanded a meeting with the editor to explain himself and inevitably the Mail has rejected the request, and as I said earlier even a Sky presenter was questioning what authority the speaker has to intervene
    Can he not withdraw lobby passes from all mail hacks? I would.
    Yes he can but no sure how wise it would be as it would set a precedent for future controversial journalism coming from across the political spectrum
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    First rule of Freedom Big G, Freedom had to come with responsibilities or else it’s not Freedom of which you speak but anarchy and unfairness.
    That sounds like a form of sensorship
    Hmmm. Would you feel any differently about the MoS and the Speaker's failed intervention if the story was about a nice lady MP like say Liz Truss rather than a nasty one?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    What does above have to do with Daily Mail, pray tell?

    Whereas political motive of DM is crystal clear - to aid Boris Johnson.

    Personally think you and Boris are both grossly overplaying the Tribune of Free Ukraine angle. To point of vanishingly diminishing returns.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398

    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    image

    Bizarre photo! Where is this from?
    I so hate that fringe.
    Bearing in mind it is Rayner we are talking about, has auto correct been at work, or do you disapprove of her Barnet?
    The fact it’s Rayner doesn’t come into it. If she feels she now has to wear trousers and we all feel we can’t comment on her fringe then the bullies at the Mail are winning. The fact Rayner is working class top politician on merit is cool with me. Truth is, when she stood in for Starmer at PMQs Boris didn’t make mincemeat of her at all, truth is she done well, and here’s the poorly kept secret, those at the Mail who claim they saw otherwise are lying. Quite simply liars.

    And it might be fact I’m 20 years younger, but I just think different hair styles than that look a lot smarter. Sixties bangs and fringes just stand out too much from the crowd in this day and age. I just can’t imagine looking in a mirror and seeing myself with a fringe like that - I’d go straight to my hair stuff box for the scissors and cut it off! Unless it’s for a fancy dress Party and I was going as Modesty Blaze or Noa Knight. Even Barbarella didn’t have bangs.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    First rule of Freedom Big G, Freedom had to come with responsibilities or else it’s not Freedom of which you speak but anarchy and unfairness.
    That sounds like a form of sensorship
    Hmmm. Would you feel any differently about the MoS and the Speaker's failed intervention if the story was about a nice lady MP like say Liz Truss rather than a nasty one?
    The speakers intervention is not about this single issue but more generally about the intervention by the speaker in any journalists story that is controversial from whatever source across the political spectrum
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    What does above have to do with Daily Mail, pray tell?

    Whereas political motive of DM is crystal clear - to aid Boris Johnson.

    Personally think you and Boris are both grossly overplaying the Tribune of Free Ukraine angle. To point of vanishingly diminishing returns.
    No no. Big G is right. It’s only Boris Johnson who could have performed so well on Ukraine, no one else 🤣
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398

    You have certainly declared your interest.

    PLUS given a plug to
    1. Yorkshire Party
    2. David Herdson
    3. Wakefield
    4. Politicalbetting.com
    5. Smarkets

    And in fifty words or less!

    You mean, like a true class act?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,483


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    What does above have to do with Daily Mail, pray tell?

    Whereas political motive of DM is crystal clear - to aid Boris Johnson.

    Personally think you and Boris are both grossly overplaying the Tribune of Free Ukraine angle. To point of vanishingly diminishing returns.
    I'm not sure it's even as thought-through as that.

    There's a fairly nasty sexy and sexist undercurrent in the Mail, "flaunting her curves" and whatnot. The only trouble on Sunday was they got caught crossing the line.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    What does above have to do with Daily Mail, pray tell?

    Whereas political motive of DM is crystal clear - to aid Boris Johnson.

    Personally think you and Boris are both grossly overplaying the Tribune of Free Ukraine angle. To point of vanishingly diminishing returns.
    It is all to do with your final sentence and inferences which are idiotic and obviously the narrative of UK role in the Ukraine conflict seems to trigger a desire to play down our role
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    What does above have to do with Daily Mail, pray tell?

    Whereas political motive of DM is crystal clear - to aid Boris Johnson.

    Personally think you and Boris are both grossly overplaying the Tribune of Free Ukraine angle. To point of vanishingly diminishing returns.
    No no. Big G is right. It’s only Boris Johnson who could have performed so well on Ukraine, no one else 🤣
    And that is so silly and you are better than that

    It is not just Boris but Ben Wallace and others who have been widely recognised to have performed well on Ukraine and downplaying the UK achievements only plays into Putin's hands
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    What does above have to do with Daily Mail, pray tell?

    Whereas political motive of DM is crystal clear - to aid Boris Johnson.

    Personally think you and Boris are both grossly overplaying the Tribune of Free Ukraine angle. To point of vanishingly diminishing returns.
    It is all to do with your final sentence and inferences which are idiotic and obviously the narrative of UK role in the Ukraine conflict seems to trigger a desire to play down our role
    I think you are on a fools errand here. When journalists misbehave like in this instance or worse still during the phone hacking era they need to be called out by authority.

    Making up BS isn't freedom of speech journalism it it the road to genuine Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson false reporting fake news which is not in the public interest, it is quite the contrary.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,315
    "Locked down in Shanghai, I’ve caught a glimpse of our techno-dystopian future
    Rotting cabbage, digital breadlines and bossy drones
    By Don Weinland"

    https://www.economist.com/1843/2022/04/26/locked-down-in-shanghai-ive-caught-a-glimpse-of-our-techno-dystopian-future
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,814


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    What does above have to do with Daily Mail, pray tell?

    Whereas political motive of DM is crystal clear - to aid Boris Johnson.

    Personally think you and Boris are both grossly overplaying the Tribune of Free Ukraine angle. To point of vanishingly diminishing returns.
    It is all to do with your final sentence and inferences which are idiotic and obviously the narrative of UK role in the Ukraine conflict seems to trigger a desire to play down our role
    I think you are on a fools errand here. When journalists misbehave like in this instance or worse still during the phone hacking era they need to be called out by authority.

    Making up BS isn't freedom of speech journalism it it the road to genuine Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson false reporting fake news which is not in the public interest, it is quite the contrary.
    I am not commenting further on this as I do not want to diminish the disgusting story about Rayner
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    Hunt only got 33% from Tory members in 2019, I don't see why next time should be much different.

    Wallace is the man to watch
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174


    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.

    How are you defining "Putinist"?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    What does above have to do with Daily Mail, pray tell?

    Whereas political motive of DM is crystal clear - to aid Boris Johnson.

    Personally think you and Boris are both grossly overplaying the Tribune of Free Ukraine angle. To point of vanishingly diminishing returns.
    No no. Big G is right. It’s only Boris Johnson who could have performed so well on Ukraine, no one else 🤣
    And that is so silly and you are better than that

    It is not just Boris but Ben Wallace and others who have been widely recognised to have performed well on Ukraine and downplaying the UK achievements only plays into Putin's hands
    Okay. Then name What have they actually done others Couldn’t and others wouldn’t have done? Like Starmer. hunt, May, Cameron if they were PM now?

    Far from being silly I nailed it yesterday Big G. When Wallace speaks on Ukraine and stands up to Putin’s evil horrible invasion, and Boris too, it’s what we all want to hear, none of us disagree with the speaking up or the arm shipments. That’s why it’s a boost. But anyone could have achieved this, there’s nothing Boris or Wallace done here other people I named wouldn’t have done just the same. Unless you care to detail it.

    US have been the most generous, whilst considering how exposed they started this the EU have been great just as much as UK. The bravery and generosity of Polish government tops everyone on this, including UK.

    Now for the differences. Starmer. hunt, May, Cameron Would all have appointed a far better Home Secretary so the help to refugees would have been better under them than under Boris. And hidden behind what your call nothing but success is overruling everybody to put a Putin apologist in the Lords! WTF! and backstory of being far too close to Oligarch money leading up to this war. , including seeking Kremlin money for Tory coffers the very night Putin attacked, as the papers revealed to us.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077


    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.

    How are you defining "Putinist"?
    Broadly. For example, Kevin McCarthy, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Daily Mail all qualify.

    Regardless of whatever noises they may or may not make re: Ukraine.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    What does above have to do with Daily Mail, pray tell?

    Whereas political motive of DM is crystal clear - to aid Boris Johnson.

    Personally think you and Boris are both grossly overplaying the Tribune of Free Ukraine angle. To point of vanishingly diminishing returns.
    It is all to do with your final sentence and inferences which are idiotic and obviously the narrative of UK role in the Ukraine conflict seems to trigger a desire to play down our role
    Obviously that is one possible explanation. A false one re: me.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077

    You have certainly declared your interest.

    PLUS given a plug to
    1. Yorkshire Party
    2. David Herdson
    3. Wakefield
    4. Politicalbetting.com
    5. Smarkets

    And in fifty words or less!

    You mean, like a true class act?
    Like a seasoned journalist and communicator. Clear, concise, straightforward.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 2,819


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Parliament is a court as well as a legislature. Within it's dual jurisdiction is very broad authority to enforce very expansive Privileges of Parliament. Limited by the discretion and will of Parliament.

    So right of Speaker to call to account, on behalf of the House of Commons, anyone before the the bar of the House (the only one without taps?) is well-established.

    What happens after that is the real question.

    Many, indeed most upholders of free speech will concur with your view, substantially if not totally.

    Think I'm OK with having a pack of ink-splattered hooligans hauled up to public censure by the Mother of Parliaments.

    Beyond that, not so much.

    Fortunately, in contrast to the hopes of its authors, the backlash versus DM's erotic-misogynic log-flogging for fun & profit, is benefiting Angela Raynor in general, and her party in particular.

    That is, she REALLY doesn't need this kind of help, she's doing fine on her own.

    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.
    The one thing Boris and the conservative party have done well is on Ukraine and against Putin's war and war crimes

    The President of Ukraine is full of praise for him and the UK government, Ukraine have even named a street after him, and we get daily attacks from Putin and the Kremlin that we are the principal enemies of Russia in the west

    You need to direct your ire to Germany who is the one buying Russian oil and gas and sustainaining his war machine
    Since Russia invaded Ukraine 8 weeks ago, Germany has managed to reduce its dependency on Russian oil from 35% to 12%. The remaining imports are going to a large refinery on the Polish border that is Russian-owned and supplied by pipeline from Russia. This has been a problem to deal with, but following a deal with Poland to supply the refinery by ship from Gdansk, there are hopes that Germany could become fully independent of Russian oil within days.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174


    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.

    How are you defining "Putinist"?
    Broadly. For example, Kevin McCarthy, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Daily Mail all qualify.

    Regardless of whatever noises they may or may not make re: Ukraine.
    What about them makes them "Putinists" as opposed to any other term of abuse?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077


    Whereas this is just another self-inflicted wound by the Putinist's currently running (and ruining) the Tory Party in general, and the prospects of Borish Johnson in particular.

    How are you defining "Putinist"?
    Broadly. For example, Kevin McCarthy, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Daily Mail all qualify.

    Regardless of whatever noises they may or may not make re: Ukraine.
    What about them makes them "Putinists" as opposed to any other term of abuse?
    Fellow travelers on same path as 45.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    Okay, the government have a plan to help us all with the cost of living crisis. Cutting food tariffs.

    Surely no PB poster supports this plan to use our Brexit Freedoms to cut tariffs and ease the cost of living crisis?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,383

    Okay, the government have a plan to help us all with the cost of living crisis. Cutting food tariffs.

    Surely no PB poster supports this plan to use our Brexit Freedoms to cut tariffs and ease the cost of living crisis?

    At F.... Last, we should have done this the day we left the EU, but late is better than never.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    BigRich said:

    Okay, the government have a plan to help us all with the cost of living crisis. Cutting food tariffs.

    Surely no PB poster supports this plan to use our Brexit Freedoms to cut tariffs and ease the cost of living crisis?

    At F.... Last, we should have done this the day we left the EU, but late is better than never.
    Oh that didn’t take long. You serious?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077
    Personally think that Boris Johnson deserves significant credit for most of his role in opposing Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

    Just NOT enough to whitewash him. OR to prevent it being a good idea IMHO for the UK and Conservative Party to throw him out of the troika and, if not to the wolves, at least out of No. 10.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 34,010
    Lol.

    Incoming 'I'm sorry if the hon member for Bournemouth East feels I have called him a c**t..'


  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,383
    BigRich said:

    Okay, the government have a plan to help us all with the cost of living crisis. Cutting food tariffs.

    Surely no PB poster supports this plan to use our Brexit Freedoms to cut tariffs and ease the cost of living crisis?

    At F.... Last, we should have done this the day we left the EU, but late is better than never.
    Deadly serious, the principle of 'comparative advantage' was lade out clearly 2 centenaries ago, and has repeatedly been demonstrated, time and time again, free trade make people better off.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,549
    Mike's tweet says David Herdson has been selected as candidate for The Yorkshire Party in the Wakefield by election. Mike has has £20 at 42/1 with Smarkets. I've gone in too. £25 at 40.0.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    BigRich said:

    BigRich said:

    Okay, the government have a plan to help us all with the cost of living crisis. Cutting food tariffs.

    Surely no PB poster supports this plan to use our Brexit Freedoms to cut tariffs and ease the cost of living crisis?

    At F.... Last, we should have done this the day we left the EU, but late is better than never.
    Deadly serious, the principle of 'comparative advantage' was lade out clearly 2 centenaries ago, and has repeatedly been demonstrated, time and time again, free trade make people better off.
    But it’s intricately woven into all the trade deal negotiations isn’t it? we are simultaneously getting countries to pay for tariffs cuts as part of trade deals, whilst simply giving it away to others? That’s bonkers. The other side would just walk out the negotiations surely, or look again what we got them to sign.

    It would suddenly look like a government with a clueless trade deal strategy, clueless at negotiating and not fit to govern, wouldn’t it?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    edited April 27
    https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/04/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-2022-local-elections/

    Who pointed us to this Absolutely rubbish article, was it Heathener?

    Don’t Lib Dems exist?

    It’s just Labour obsessed journalism trying to spin a average result as good for Labour.

    “Most of the English seats up for election are urban (where Labour is strong) and were last contested before the Tories’ crushing victory in 2019. As a consequence there aren’t as many council seats for Labour to win back from the Conservatives as there would be if last year’s seats were up for election. “

    So it’s impossible for Boris to have a bad night?

    “If Labour were to hold these seats, I wouldn’t necessarily view that as evidence of a stagnant party but rather one doing much better than it did in 2021 and at the 2019 general election. 

    Yeah right. Just holding their own and not much happening over all is actually a good night for Labour, even though the media will call it a good night for Boris and Starmer not doing nearly well enough? “

    I know what Big G will post “it’s shocking in context of this climate Labour and Starmer making no headway at all across all these elections!”

    And this time Big G will be absolutely right. 👍🏻
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    That Charles Grant article reads like a love letter to Macron to me; he's hoping he'll fulfil the federalist agenda he's always dreamed of, even whilst he acknowledges (without blinking) that other EU nations are not in the same place at the same time.

    It will be interesting to revisit the article in 5 years time to see how much of it actually happened. And on that which may, such as moves on defence and security, how far they did so without substantial British support.

    Lots of Europeans and more specifically French government people just think saying "strategic autonomy" thousands of time will magically make it happen.

    In finance, defence, semi-conductors, energy and a number of other key sectors the EU is significantly or wholly reliant on an external party. With no way out, on the last check, the City has been gaining market share of financial services.

    On defence Eastern Europe will never agree to a France/Germany led defence of the realm without US and UK involvement, in fact given everything happening in Ukraine I'm almost certain that Eastern European countries would leave the EU if EU and NATO membership became mutually exclusive.

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    Finally on semi-conductors, it's the one area where Europe could potentially win back a lot of market share, Intel already has manufacturing in Ireland but at the same time, they're not domestic and Biden has, realistically, purchased all of Intel's investment capacity for the next 5-8 years for domestic production. The other major semi-conductor powers are in Asia and will be significantly less helpful to the EU than Intel. The lack of key domestic players is the issue, same as the UK. Both parties would essentially be building an industry from scratch, the US, Korea, Taiwan and Japan already have significant domestic industries and national champions like Intel, Samsung, TSMC and Sony who invest billions of dollars per year into semi-conductor development and manufacturing and dominate specific sectors.

    This kind of rhetoric may win over blinkered EUphiles or those vanishingly few people who still like Macron but the reality is that both the UK and EU will struggle to achieve anything like strategic autonomy in very many key sectors. What the UK lacks in autonomy we make up for in speed and having a dynamic economy that is able to move with the times, just talking about my little sector of tech start up investing and consulting, nothing like this industry exists anywhere in the EU.

    I think the UK has largely accepted that strategic autonomy is unlikely in a lot of sectors, it means we have to make sure our alliances count. Hence AUKUS, potentially pulling Japan into it, the new bridging security agreement for Sweden to join NATO etc... The EU seems to behave as if it were a benevolent superpower asking for favours but giving nothing in return. As I've said on many occasions, I'd start looking to tie UK-EU defence and intelligence cooperation to very long term mutual recognition in agricultural standards, financial services standards and customs pre-clearance of UK goods in key sectors and push these into the TCA and extend the TCA break period to 5 years rather than 12 months. No more freebies.

    The Intel fab outside Dublin is also not a contract foundry - it makes Intel CPUs and that's it. It's not designed to do anything else, and you can't simply turn it around.

    There are a few chip fabrication plants in Europe - Bosch has three or four devoted to automotive semiconductors in Germany, STMicro has a couple in France (albeit devoted to analog-mixed signal), as well as one in the shadow of Mount Etna in Sicily. Altis also has one, and I think there are a couple of Texas Instruments ones. And while I don't know, I would bet there are a bunch of ex-Philips ones in the Netherlands. And I'm sure Infineon has a couple too.

    The reality is - though - that no country is genuinely independent from a semi sourcing point of view: the US, Israel, Singapore and Ireland dominate CPUs. Taiwan dominates contract manufacturing. And South Korea and Japan have a bunch of specialist stuff.

    On the other hand, all of these plants are utterly dependent on a small list of suppliers. So without ASM Lithography, there would be no semiconductor plants. It utterly dominates the high end of the market.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 2,127
    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    That Charles Grant article reads like a love letter to Macron to me; he's hoping he'll fulfil the federalist agenda he's always dreamed of, even whilst he acknowledges (without blinking) that other EU nations are not in the same place at the same time.

    It will be interesting to revisit the article in 5 years time to see how much of it actually happened. And on that which may, such as moves on defence and security, how far they did so without substantial British support.

    Lots of Europeans and more specifically French government people just think saying "strategic autonomy" thousands of time will magically make it happen.

    In finance, defence, semi-conductors, energy and a number of other key sectors the EU is significantly or wholly reliant on an external party. With no way out, on the last check, the City has been gaining market share of financial services.

    On defence Eastern Europe will never agree to a France/Germany led defence of the realm without US and UK involvement, in fact given everything happening in Ukraine I'm almost certain that Eastern European countries would leave the EU if EU and NATO membership became mutually exclusive.

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    Finally on semi-conductors, it's the one area where Europe could potentially win back a lot of market share, Intel already has manufacturing in Ireland but at the same time, they're not domestic and Biden has, realistically, purchased all of Intel's investment capacity for the next 5-8 years for domestic production. The other major semi-conductor powers are in Asia and will be significantly less helpful to the EU than Intel. The lack of key domestic players is the issue, same as the UK. Both parties would essentially be building an industry from scratch, the US, Korea, Taiwan and Japan already have significant domestic industries and national champions like Intel, Samsung, TSMC and Sony who invest billions of dollars per year into semi-conductor development and manufacturing and dominate specific sectors.

    This kind of rhetoric may win over blinkered EUphiles or those vanishingly few people who still like Macron but the reality is that both the UK and EU will struggle to achieve anything like strategic autonomy in very many key sectors. What the UK lacks in autonomy we make up for in speed and having a dynamic economy that is able to move with the times, just talking about my little sector of tech start up investing and consulting, nothing like this industry exists anywhere in the EU.

    I think the UK has largely accepted that strategic autonomy is unlikely in a lot of sectors, it means we have to make sure our alliances count. Hence AUKUS, potentially pulling Japan into it, the new bridging security agreement for Sweden to join NATO etc... The EU seems to behave as if it were a benevolent superpower asking for favours but giving nothing in return. As I've said on many occasions, I'd start looking to tie UK-EU defence and intelligence cooperation to very long term mutual recognition in agricultural standards, financial services standards and customs pre-clearance of UK goods in key sectors and push these into the TCA and extend the TCA break period to 5 years rather than 12 months. No more freebies.

    What about st micro?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 2,127
    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Because it implies politicians have the power to rebuke a journalist.

    They don’t - he can say what he thinks but he can’t summon the editor for a dressing down
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 2,127

    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    It might be worse than that. What if Schröder is right that German industry needs Russian resources and there isn't a real alternative? The way things are going they could face a sustained economic decline if they want to maintain their Western alliances.

    German prosperity really was built at the cost of European security.
    And by bleeding Greece, Italy and Spain
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234

    It'

    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    It might be worse than that. What if Schröder is right that German industry needs Russian resources and there isn't a real alternative? The way things are going they could face a sustained economic decline if they want to maintain their Western alliances.

    German prosperity really was built at the cost of European security.
    In 2019 Germany bought about $20bn of natural gas from Russia. If we pretend for a moment that they paid half the world market rate (which they didn't), then their benefit was... $20bn.

    But of course, Germany didn't pay half the world market price. They paid market prices (as they did for their other source of piped gas, Norway) but benefited from lower shipping costs.

    Now would Germany pay more for LNG gas? Yes. If Germany wanted to enter into long-term LNG supply contracts, it would have to pay significantly more (probably 40-50% more).

    But here's the thing: it's not the German government entering into supply contracts, it's Germany utility companies. If one company orders LNG from Qatar at a fixed 15% discount to the oil price, then they will be paying more than one who ordered from Gazprom or Statoil.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234

    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    It might be worse than that. What if Schröder is right that German industry needs Russian resources and there isn't a real alternative? The way things are going they could face a sustained economic decline if they want to maintain their Western alliances.

    German prosperity really was built at the cost of European security.
    And by bleeding Greece, Italy and Spain
    You are giving the Germans agency, and denying it to others.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234

    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    That Charles Grant article reads like a love letter to Macron to me; he's hoping he'll fulfil the federalist agenda he's always dreamed of, even whilst he acknowledges (without blinking) that other EU nations are not in the same place at the same time.

    It will be interesting to revisit the article in 5 years time to see how much of it actually happened. And on that which may, such as moves on defence and security, how far they did so without substantial British support.

    Lots of Europeans and more specifically French government people just think saying "strategic autonomy" thousands of time will magically make it happen.

    In finance, defence, semi-conductors, energy and a number of other key sectors the EU is significantly or wholly reliant on an external party. With no way out, on the last check, the City has been gaining market share of financial services.

    On defence Eastern Europe will never agree to a France/Germany led defence of the realm without US and UK involvement, in fact given everything happening in Ukraine I'm almost certain that Eastern European countries would leave the EU if EU and NATO membership became mutually exclusive.

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    Finally on semi-conductors, it's the one area where Europe could potentially win back a lot of market share, Intel already has manufacturing in Ireland but at the same time, they're not domestic and Biden has, realistically, purchased all of Intel's investment capacity for the next 5-8 years for domestic production. The other major semi-conductor powers are in Asia and will be significantly less helpful to the EU than Intel. The lack of key domestic players is the issue, same as the UK. Both parties would essentially be building an industry from scratch, the US, Korea, Taiwan and Japan already have significant domestic industries and national champions like Intel, Samsung, TSMC and Sony who invest billions of dollars per year into semi-conductor development and manufacturing and dominate specific sectors.

    This kind of rhetoric may win over blinkered EUphiles or those vanishingly few people who still like Macron but the reality is that both the UK and EU will struggle to achieve anything like strategic autonomy in very many key sectors. What the UK lacks in autonomy we make up for in speed and having a dynamic economy that is able to move with the times, just talking about my little sector of tech start up investing and consulting, nothing like this industry exists anywhere in the EU.

    I think the UK has largely accepted that strategic autonomy is unlikely in a lot of sectors, it means we have to make sure our alliances count. Hence AUKUS, potentially pulling Japan into it, the new bridging security agreement for Sweden to join NATO etc... The EU seems to behave as if it were a benevolent superpower asking for favours but giving nothing in return. As I've said on many occasions, I'd start looking to tie UK-EU defence and intelligence cooperation to very long term mutual recognition in agricultural standards, financial services standards and customs pre-clearance of UK goods in key sectors and push these into the TCA and extend the TCA break period to 5 years rather than 12 months. No more freebies.

    What about st micro?
    STMicro, Infineon, and NXP are all big European semiconductor companies - but they are all in the same space. I.e. analog and mixed-signal. Plus, their fabs are all over the world.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Because it implies politicians have the power to rebuke a journalist.

    They don’t - he can say what he thinks but he can’t summon the editor for a dressing down
    Believe the Speaker can IF the House of Commons backs him up.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077

    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    It might be worse than that. What if Schröder is right that German industry needs Russian resources and there isn't a real alternative? The way things are going they could face a sustained economic decline if they want to maintain their Western alliances.

    German prosperity really was built at the cost of European security.
    And by bleeding Greece, Italy and Spain
    Turkey says hello
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 14,513
    edited April 27
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    On energy there still seems to be a real lack of acceptance that relying on Russian energy was a bad idea in Germany, loads of German officials are still waiting for this to all die down so they can quietly forget to reform their energy sector.

    It might be worse than that. What if Schröder is right that German industry needs Russian resources and there isn't a real alternative? The way things are going they could face a sustained economic decline if they want to maintain their Western alliances.

    German prosperity really was built at the cost of European security.
    And by bleeding Greece, Italy and Spain
    You are giving the Germans agency, and denying it to others.
    I don’t know if Germany bled Greece etc.

    But it certainly engineered an effective bailout of its own banks while wallowing in self-righteous indignation at the supposedly feckless Greeks who’d had the temerity to borrow from said banks.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,523
    Boris Johnson has threatened to “privatise the arse” off the Passport Office, DVLA and other “arms-length” public bodies unless they start delivering better services.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-passport-office-delays-privatisation-threat-b996301.html

    That will work because by the time the agencies are privatised, they will have cleared the Covid backlogs anyway.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174
    It looks like another ammunition depot inside Russia has been hit in Belgorod.

    image
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,523
    edited April 27
    A late April Fool headline from The Times:-

    Sometimes even Rees-Mogg gets things right
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-steve-jobs-would-agree-with-rees-mogg-on-working-from-home-tk8wxmlsf (£££)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,523
    The Times has been investigating Covid loan abuse:-

    Suitcases of Covid loan cash seized at UK’s borders
    Recipients of pandemic support also spent the money on gambling sprees, home improvements and cars, a Times investigation finds

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suitcases-of-covid-loan-cash-seized-at-uks-borders-wcnnjd7r8 (£££)

    Loophole allowed new businesses to get £100m in Covid loans
    Dozens of companies were able to claim taxpayer-backed support after being set up during the pandemic, a Times investigation finds

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/loophole-allowed-new-businesses-to-get-100m-in-covid-loans-ghl9gknfw (£££)
  • pingping Posts: 2,398

    The Times has been investigating Covid loan abuse:-

    Suitcases of Covid loan cash seized at UK’s borders
    Recipients of pandemic support also spent the money on gambling sprees, home improvements and cars, a Times investigation finds

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suitcases-of-covid-loan-cash-seized-at-uks-borders-wcnnjd7r8 (£££)

    Loophole allowed new businesses to get £100m in Covid loans
    Dozens of companies were able to claim taxpayer-backed support after being set up during the pandemic, a Times investigation finds

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/loophole-allowed-new-businesses-to-get-100m-in-covid-loans-ghl9gknfw (£££)

    Outrageous. In saner times this is the sort of scandal that would bring down a government.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,563

    The Times has been investigating Covid loan abuse:-

    Suitcases of Covid loan cash seized at UK’s borders
    Recipients of pandemic support also spent the money on gambling sprees, home improvements and cars, a Times investigation finds

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suitcases-of-covid-loan-cash-seized-at-uks-borders-wcnnjd7r8 (£££)

    Loophole allowed new businesses to get £100m in Covid loans
    Dozens of companies were able to claim taxpayer-backed support after being set up during the pandemic, a Times investigation finds

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/loophole-allowed-new-businesses-to-get-100m-in-covid-loans-ghl9gknfw (£££)

    Who would have thought it? A massive, quick expansion of government led to a massive, quick expansion of fraud and abuse.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,563
    MaxPB said:

    Fpt:

    That Charles Grant article reads like a love letter to Macron to me; he's hoping he'll fulfil the federalist agenda he's always dreamed of, even whilst he acknowledges (without blinking) that other EU nations are not in the same place at the same time.

    It will be interesting to revisit the article in 5 years time to see how much of it actually happened. And on that which may, such as moves on defence and security, how far they did so without substantial British support.

    Lots of Europeans and more specifically French government people just think saying "strategic autonomy" thousands of time will magically make it happen.

    In finance, defence, semi-conductors, energy and a number of other key sectors the EU is significantly or wholly reliant on an external party. With no way out, on the last check, the City has been gaining market share of financial services.

    On defence Eastern Europe will never agree to a France/Germany led defence of the realm without US and UK involvement, in fact given everything happening in Ukraine I'm almost certain that Eastern European countries would leave the EU if EU and NATO membership became mutually exclusive.

    I doubt that. Their political classes would never say goodbye to all the EU cash they lavish on themselves and their supporters, a key reason those political classes almost to a man supported joining the EU in the first place.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371

    A late April Fool headline from The Times:-

    Sometimes even Rees-Mogg gets things right
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-steve-jobs-would-agree-with-rees-mogg-on-working-from-home-tk8wxmlsf (£££)

    A lot of companies hate it but it's great for freer productivity.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371
    Fishing said:

    The Times has been investigating Covid loan abuse:-

    Suitcases of Covid loan cash seized at UK’s borders
    Recipients of pandemic support also spent the money on gambling sprees, home improvements and cars, a Times investigation finds

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suitcases-of-covid-loan-cash-seized-at-uks-borders-wcnnjd7r8 (£££)

    Loophole allowed new businesses to get £100m in Covid loans
    Dozens of companies were able to claim taxpayer-backed support after being set up during the pandemic, a Times investigation finds

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/loophole-allowed-new-businesses-to-get-100m-in-covid-loans-ghl9gknfw (£££)

    Who would have thought it? A massive, quick expansion of government led to a massive, quick expansion of fraud and abuse.
    It wasn't about expansion of government. That, it seems to me, is your own projection.

    It was about a massive, quick, spaff of money. Which is Boris Johnson all over. Slap it on the credit card and worry about how to pay it off another day.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,371

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Because it implies politicians have the power to rebuke a journalist.

    They don’t - he can say what he thinks but he can’t summon the editor for a dressing down
    We need decency back in public life, which was Lindsay Hoyle's purpose. The Mail has gone down the drain since the editorial change, albeit from a low starting position.

    Separate to that, the Select Committees can summon people.

    Pace Elon Musk, we are NOT free to publish whatever we like. There are consequences, on a legal foot obviously, but also on an ethical and moral one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,750
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Because it implies politicians have the power to rebuke a journalist.

    They don’t - he can say what he thinks but he can’t summon the editor for a dressing down
    We need decency back in public life, which was Lindsay Hoyle's purpose. The Mail has gone down the drain since the editorial change, albeit from a low starting position.

    Separate to that, the Select Committees can summon people.

    Pace Elon Musk, we are NOT free to publish whatever we like. There are consequences, on a legal foot obviously, but also on an ethical and moral one.
    What did you think of the Guardian's cartoon representing Patel - a Hindu - as a cow?

    Surely that was more insulting than the comments against Rayner? Or from now on, does Hoyle give cartoons an exemption, for reasons (e.g. satire)? Hoyle has put himself into the situation where he has to decide *when* the media has gone too far - and that's going to cause him a load of issues if he is not careful.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Because it implies politicians have the power to rebuke a journalist.

    They don’t - he can say what he thinks but he can’t summon the editor for a dressing down
    They sort of do actually, there's a thing called contempt of parliament which is punishable by Parliament entirely outwith the jurisdiction of the courts. And I wouldn't call the speaker a politician.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,208
    FPT:
    ping said:

    I’m sure this has already been discussed, but…

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61227622

    “Cost of living crisis: Changes to childcare and MOT rules considered to help budgets”

    Note: only suggestions are stuff that doesn’t cost the treasury anything. Number 10/11 don’t get it. This is an existential crisis for the government.

    Yes, that’s the whole point.

    They’re looking for regulations that impose costs on everyday life, but can be fixed without costing the Treasury money. Many of them will be gold-plated EU regulations sent through Parliament on the nod, rather than debated properly at the time.

    It’s exactly the sort of thing the government should be doing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 41,202

    Boris Johnson has threatened to “privatise the arse” off the Passport Office, DVLA and other “arms-length” public bodies unless they start delivering better services.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-passport-office-delays-privatisation-threat-b996301.html

    That will work because by the time the agencies are privatised, they will have cleared the Covid backlogs anyway.

    Removing the arses from the cabinet ought to be the priority.
    Though I can see why that might not appeal to Boris.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,455
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:


    Oh so sweetly delicious 🤤 the Mail doubles down refusing to admit it’s done anything wrong or anything to apologise for. The Mail written and edited by imbeciles - a gift that keeps giving this week. And they are going to continue digging themselves deeper in allowing the Labour Party all the fun of the fair aren’t they 🤣

    Do you agree that the speaker is able to summon a journalist and if so what has happened to the freedom of speech

    I have roundly condemned that article but giving the speaker this power is a step too far
    Whats wrong with the Speaker telling the editor to behave with more dignity to MPs?
    Because it implies politicians have the power to rebuke a journalist.

    They don’t - he can say what he thinks but he can’t summon the editor for a dressing down
    We need decency back in public life, which was Lindsay Hoyle's purpose. The Mail has gone down the drain since the editorial change, albeit from a low starting position.

    Separate to that, the Select Committees can summon people.

    Pace Elon Musk, we are NOT free to publish whatever we like. There are consequences, on a legal foot obviously, but also on an ethical and moral one.
    I've not actually read the Mail articles. But I strongly think, that they should be allowed to publish whatever they want. For many years, I have detested this publication and found it incredibly annoying. But now, it has become a final dissident in the mainstream media against a puritan and almost totalitarian political culture. With this Rayner stuff, I have no doubt that it will continue to be consumed and gleefully digested by the public, and the howls of outrage are part of the story, and as many people have pointed out, it is not exactly clear who benefits from it.
This discussion has been closed.