2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there isn't a better indicator for a shit campaign....
That definitely needs to be taken in as evidence, but you can't dismiss the evidence I gave. Up from 4 seats to 11, and a big spike in the number of voters in the plus column, and losing her own seat in the minus column.
Eh?
They went from 12 seats to 11.
Albeit with far more votes than in 2017.
Apologies, I made a mistake. I saw "4" in the previous election's page but that was how many seats Wet Lettuce Farron gained, not how many he won overall.
I thought the -1 in 2019 was because of the defections, which is unfair to count as losses. But I was wrong.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there isn't a better indicator for a shit campaign....
That definitely needs to be taken in as evidence, but you can't dismiss the evidence I gave. Up from 4 seats to 11, and a big spike in the number of voters in the plus column, and losing her own seat in the minus column.
The LibDems could have had 50 seats, but if Boris gets an 80 seat majority, it is still in the "very much a work in progress" column. As it is, 11 seats is in the "we are fighting it out with the Ulstermen, to see who can be bought most cheaply in a hung Parliament..."
Not in 2019 they couldn’t.
Which made her "next PM" all the more preposterous.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there isn't a better indicator for a shit campaign....
That definitely needs to be taken in as evidence, but you can't dismiss the evidence I gave. Up from 4 seats to 11, and a big spike in the number of voters in the plus column, and losing her own seat in the minus column.
Eh?
They went from 12 seats to 11.
Albeit with far more votes than in 2017.
Apologies, I made a mistake. I saw "4" in the previous election's page but that was how many seats Wet Lettuce Farron gained, not how many he won overall.
I thought the -1 in 2019 was because of the defections, which is unfair to count as losses. But I was wrong.
Man, FPTP is bafflingly rubbish.
The LDs seats are remarkably uncorrelated with moves in vote share.
In 1997, they went from 17.8% to 16.8%, and almost trebled their number of seats.
In 2010, they increased their vote share from 22% to 23% and were rewarded by the loss of a tenth of their seats.
In 2017, their vote dropped by a tenth, and they increased their number of seats by 50%... and then in 2019, they saw their vote leap, and saw a decline.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there isn't a better indicator for a shit campaign....
That definitely needs to be taken in as evidence, but you can't dismiss the evidence I gave. Up from 4 seats to 11, and a big spike in the number of voters in the plus column, and losing her own seat in the minus column.
The LibDems could have had 50 seats, but if Boris gets an 80 seat majority, it is still in the "very much a work in progress" column. As it is, 11 seats is in the "we are fighting it out with the Ulstermen, to see who can be bought most cheaply in a hung Parliament..."
Not in 2019 they couldn’t.
Which made her "next PM" all the more preposterous.
She didn’t say she was “going to be” the next PM. She was asked a question and gave the only possible answer.
Why would anybody want to be a politician these days? You can't even get up to a bit of, er, honest graft without a Twitterarmy crawling all over everything you've ever said....
I knew if I ever became a politician I'd spend 95% of my time apologising for my sense of humour.
and the other 5% cracking jokes.
Journalist: Your recent joke has caused a bit of a scandal, how do you view your position?
Me: I'm more fucked than a stepmom on pornhub, oh shit, I did it again.
But you won't be buggered until you get on to the joke about reluctant Turkish conscripts...
I remember one fuction I was at, where the speaker told a stunningly bad-taste joke about paedophilia. You could have heard a pin drop.
"Why do we know more about Mars than we do the vagina? A new book asks why an everyday body part is still largely a mystery to medical science Rosamund Urwin"
CBA to circumvent the paywall but I strongly doubt our knowledge of the vag is particularly adrift of any other organ. The central q in every case is Why do we get cancer of it, and how can we stop?
Mind you we've made great strides in recent years, we used to think people who had them, were women. Astonishing.
She lost her seat. If there is a better indicator for a shit campaign...do tell.
Her mistake, apart from providing you with some entertainment, was to misunderstand the notion of the sovereignty and supremacy of Parliament. It's something we hear periodically - parliament is supreme - actually, no, it isn't. Parliament is both a product of and subservient to the will of the people, the former via the electoral process and the latter when referenda are called.
Some issues (membership of the EU, the electoral system, the independence of Scotland) are deemed so important as to be "above" Parliament and are directly decided by the will of the people. Whether you think that's right or not, the rule of the game is if the people speak, you do what they tell you.
If, instead of a referendum, the Conservative Party had won an election on a commitment to leave the EU (Labour ran on the same commitment in 1983) it could have passed legislation mandating our withdrawal but if at the next election Labour won on a commitment to keep us in or take us back into the EU that would then be the position.
To their credit, and I don't often say that, although they were on the wrong side of the referendum on the creation of a London Mayor, I have never heard a Conservative argue for the abolition of the Mayor's office, the GLA and a return to the "direct rule" of the Home Secretary over the Met. Blair had a referendum and the people of London voted for a mayor - had he installed a Mayor without such a referendum, I could certainly imagine a future Conservative Government pledging its abolition.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there is a better indicator for a shit campaign...do tell.
On other hand, Chris Patten lost HIS seat in 1992; few would call Tory campaign he presided over that year shit.
"Why do we know more about Mars than we do the vagina? A new book asks why an everyday body part is still largely a mystery to medical science Rosamund Urwin"
CBA to circumvent the paywall but I strongly doubt our knowledge of the vag is particularly adrift of any other organ. The central q in every case is Why do we get cancer of it, and how can we stop?
Mind you we've made great strides in recent years, we used to think people who had them, were women. Astonishing.
We have, fairly recently, discovered the clitoris is much bigger than we thought.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there is a better indicator for a shit campaign...do tell.
It was the Flight of Icarus. A campaign that hyped itself internally to preposterous levels. They wanted us to go to Berwick and York and Harrogate as they were winnable seats. Then the penny dropped and it was go to Kendal to defend Tim Farron.
So yes, a shit campaign and she did kill her own career. But, conversely, it paved the way for the coming rebuild with best part of a hundred seats where the party is now in strong second.
"Why do we know more about Mars than we do the vagina? A new book asks why an everyday body part is still largely a mystery to medical science Rosamund Urwin"
"Why do we know more about Mars than we do the vagina? A new book asks why an everyday body part is still largely a mystery to medical science Rosamund Urwin"
CBA to circumvent the paywall but I strongly doubt our knowledge of the vag is particularly adrift of any other organ. The central q in every case is Why do we get cancer of it, and how can we stop?
Mind you we've made great strides in recent years, we used to think people who had them, were women. Astonishing.
We have, fairly recently, discovered the clitoris is much bigger than we thought.
You could probably have left off the last 6 words for much of PB.
"Why do we know more about Mars than we do the vagina? A new book asks why an everyday body part is still largely a mystery to medical science Rosamund Urwin"
CBA to circumvent the paywall but I strongly doubt our knowledge of the vag is particularly adrift of any other organ. The central q in every case is Why do we get cancer of it, and how can we stop?
Mind you we've made great strides in recent years, we used to think people who had them, were women. Astonishing.
We have, fairly recently, discovered the clitoris is much bigger than we thought.
You could probably have left off the last 6 words for much of PB.
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
They are among 56 MPs who have been referred to the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) over about 70 separate complaints.
Maybe we should sack the lot and appoint a new Parliament from PB contributors !!!!!
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there is a better indicator for a shit campaign...do tell.
It was the Flight of Icarus. A campaign that hyped itself internally to preposterous levels. They wanted us to go to Berwick and York and Harrogate as they were winnable seats. Then the penny dropped and it was go to Kendal to defend Tim Farron.
So yes, a shit campaign and she did kill her own career. But, conversely, it paved the way for the coming rebuild with best part of a hundred seats where the party is now in strong second.
And after the next election that’s a position the Lib Dems will still hold in the vast majority of those seats.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there isn't a better indicator for a shit campaign....
That definitely needs to be taken in as evidence, but you can't dismiss the evidence I gave. Up from 4 seats to 11, and a big spike in the number of voters in the plus column, and losing her own seat in the minus column.
The LibDems could have had 50 seats, but if Boris gets an 80 seat majority, it is still in the "very much a work in progress" column. As it is, 11 seats is in the "we are fighting it out with the Ulstermen, to see who can be bought most cheaply in a hung Parliament..."
Not in 2019 they couldn’t.
Which made her "next PM" all the more preposterous.
She didn’t say she was “going to be” the next PM. She was asked a question and gave the only possible answer.
The only answer was "In recent memory, my party has been at the heart of Government, exercising a controlling hand and preventing the excesses of a majority Government. That is a worthy target to repeat"
But she would have gone on to say "to prevent the implementation of Brexit...."
"Why do we know more about Mars than we do the vagina? A new book asks why an everyday body part is still largely a mystery to medical science Rosamund Urwin"
CBA to circumvent the paywall but I strongly doubt our knowledge of the vag is particularly adrift of any other organ. The central q in every case is Why do we get cancer of it, and how can we stop?
Mind you we've made great strides in recent years, we used to think people who had them, were women. Astonishing.
We have, fairly recently, discovered the clitoris is much bigger than we thought.
You could probably have left off the last 6 words for much of PB.
Fun fact guys, a woman's g spot is located at the end of the word 'shopping'.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there isn't a better indicator for a shit campaign....
That definitely needs to be taken in as evidence, but you can't dismiss the evidence I gave. Up from 4 seats to 11, and a big spike in the number of voters in the plus column, and losing her own seat in the minus column.
Eh?
They went from 12 seats to 11.
Albeit with far more votes than in 2017.
Apologies, I made a mistake. I saw "4" in the previous election's page but that was how many seats Wet Lettuce Farron gained, not how many he won overall.
I thought the -1 in 2019 was because of the defections, which is unfair to count as losses. But I was wrong.
Man, FPTP is bafflingly rubbish.
The LDs seats are remarkably uncorrelated with moves in vote share.
In 1997, they went from 17.8% to 16.8%, and almost trebled their number of seats.
In 2010, they increased their vote share from 22% to 23% and were rewarded by the loss of a tenth of their seats.
In 2017, their vote dropped by a tenth, and they increased their number of seats by 50%... and then in 2019, they saw their vote leap, and saw a decline.
I think they are poised to repeat the trick at the next GE. 2019 put them in 2nd place in a lot of places and some Con fallback could see the LDs take seats without their voteshare rising much if any.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
I’m old enough to remember rumours of three labour mps defecting to the Tories...
Ah, the heady days of 2020.
Was it that long ago? I’d have sworn it was last year. Someone wise suggested that the two pandemic years have merged into one, so 2019 feels more decent than it is.
"Why do we know more about Mars than we do the vagina? A new book asks why an everyday body part is still largely a mystery to medical science Rosamund Urwin"
CBA to circumvent the paywall but I strongly doubt our knowledge of the vag is particularly adrift of any other organ. The central q in every case is Why do we get cancer of it, and how can we stop?
Mind you we've made great strides in recent years, we used to think people who had them, were women. Astonishing.
We have, fairly recently, discovered the clitoris is much bigger than we thought.
You could probably have left off the last 6 words for much of PB.
Fun fact guys, a woman's g spot is located at the end of the word 'shopping'.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
I’m old enough to remember rumours of three labour mps defecting to the Tories...
Ah, the heady days of 2020.
Was it that long ago? I’d have sworn it was last year. Someone wise suggested that the two pandemic years have merged into one, so 2019 feels more decent than it is.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there isn't a better indicator for a shit campaign....
That definitely needs to be taken in as evidence, but you can't dismiss the evidence I gave. Up from 4 seats to 11, and a big spike in the number of voters in the plus column, and losing her own seat in the minus column.
Eh?
They went from 12 seats to 11.
Albeit with far more votes than in 2017.
Apologies, I made a mistake. I saw "4" in the previous election's page but that was how many seats Wet Lettuce Farron gained, not how many he won overall.
I thought the -1 in 2019 was because of the defections, which is unfair to count as losses. But I was wrong.
Man, FPTP is bafflingly rubbish.
The LDs seats are remarkably uncorrelated with moves in vote share.
In 1997, they went from 17.8% to 16.8%, and almost trebled their number of seats.
In 2010, they increased their vote share from 22% to 23% and were rewarded by the loss of a tenth of their seats.
In 2017, their vote dropped by a tenth, and they increased their number of seats by 50%... and then in 2019, they saw their vote leap, and saw a decline.
Lib Dems are mostly up against the Tories in their winnable seats, so it is how they perform relative to the Tory party which determines how many seats they lose or gain.
I had a nice trrixie up at Sandown today, 1st 3 winners. I toyed doing Nicholls to win all 7 races but did not, 5 winners would have been worth a few bob though so cost me.
Still got it on the horses, Malcolm, haven't you? Not such a wasted youth after all.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
Dehenna Davison is a big cheese on GB News. Difficult to imagine her defecting.
I'd be astonished at some of those names who are supposed to all be solid 'new' Tories.
But, it may be that their ideology is a mile wide but an inch deep - with careerism underneath.
This point stuck with me.
‘In 2019, 109 Conservative MPs were elected to parliament for the first time. Many of them were neophytes who barely knew nor cared about the rules and conventions of politics. A significant number of red wall MPs also felt a greater loyalty to their constituents than to the Conservative Party itself.
In a normal parliament, whips might have developed close personal relationships with members of their flock and inspired the loyalty, or fear, on which a successful whipping operation is based. Covid, however, undermined that. MPs have instead spent much of the past two years in their constituencies and often felt greater pressure from local residents in person or on social media than from members of the whip’s office communicating over WhatsApp.’
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
They are among 56 MPs who have been referred to the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) over about 70 separate complaints.
Maybe we should sack the lot and appoint a new Parliament from PB contributors !!!!!
I do wonder at times if the age of professional politicians should come to an end.
Writing the morning thread and I was trying to write
'then Sir Keir Starmer will become Prime Minister, especially as the Conservatives appear to be utterly uncoalitionable'
however I wrote
'then Sir Keir Starmer will become Prime Minister, especially as the Conservatives appear to be utterly unconscionable'
As Peter Hitchens always says the Tories only care about being in office. That's why they're so ruthless in getting rid of PMs who are electoral liabilities.
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
They are among 56 MPs who have been referred to the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) over about 70 separate complaints.
Maybe we should sack the lot and appoint a new Parliament from PB contributors !!!!!
I do wonder at times if the age of professional politicians should come to an end.
Maybe it should be seen more as jury duty.
I can recycle all my excuses to get out of jury duty.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there isn't a better indicator for a shit campaign....
That definitely needs to be taken in as evidence, but you can't dismiss the evidence I gave. Up from 4 seats to 11, and a big spike in the number of voters in the plus column, and losing her own seat in the minus column.
Eh?
They went from 12 seats to 11.
Albeit with far more votes than in 2017.
Apologies, I made a mistake. I saw "4" in the previous election's page but that was how many seats Wet Lettuce Farron gained, not how many he won overall.
I thought the -1 in 2019 was because of the defections, which is unfair to count as losses. But I was wrong.
Man, FPTP is bafflingly rubbish.
The LDs seats are remarkably uncorrelated with moves in vote share.
In 1997, they went from 17.8% to 16.8%, and almost trebled their number of seats.
In 2010, they increased their vote share from 22% to 23% and were rewarded by the loss of a tenth of their seats.
In 2017, their vote dropped by a tenth, and they increased their number of seats by 50%... and then in 2019, they saw their vote leap, and saw a decline.
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
They are among 56 MPs who have been referred to the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) over about 70 separate complaints.
Maybe we should sack the lot and appoint a new Parliament from PB contributors !!!!!
I do wonder at times if the age of professional politicians should come to an end.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
Dehenna Davison is a big cheese on GB News. Difficult to imagine her defecting.
I'd be astonished at some of those names who are supposed to all be solid 'new' Tories.
But, it may be that their ideology is a mile wide but an inch deep - with careerism underneath.
This point stuck with me.
‘In 2019, 109 Conservative MPs were elected to parliament for the first time. Many of them were neophytes who barely knew nor cared about the rules and conventions of politics. A significant number of red wall MPs also felt a greater loyalty to their constituents than to the Conservative Party itself.
In a normal parliament, whips might have developed close personal relationships with members of their flock and inspired the loyalty, or fear, on which a successful whipping operation is based. Covid, however, undermined that. MPs have instead spent much of the past two years in their constituencies and often felt greater pressure from local residents in person or on social media than from members of the whip’s office communicating over WhatsApp.’
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
They are among 56 MPs who have been referred to the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) over about 70 separate complaints.
Maybe we should sack the lot and appoint a new Parliament from PB contributors !!!!!
I do wonder at times if the age of professional politicians should come to an end.
Maybe it should be seen more as jury duty.
I can recycle all my excuses to get out of jury duty.
Just please don't make your maiden speech about taking maidenhood.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains those elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
Dehenna Davison is a big cheese on GB News. Difficult to imagine her defecting.
I'd be astonished at some of those names who are supposed to all be solid 'new' Tories.
But, it may be that their ideology is a mile wide but an inch deep - with careerism underneath.
This point stuck with me.
‘In 2019, 109 Conservative MPs were elected to parliament for the first time. Many of them were neophytes who barely knew nor cared about the rules and conventions of politics. A significant number of red wall MPs also felt a greater loyalty to their constituents than to the Conservative Party itself.
In a normal parliament, whips might have developed close personal relationships with members of their flock and inspired the loyalty, or fear, on which a successful whipping operation is based. Covid, however, undermined that. MPs have instead spent much of the past two years in their constituencies and often felt greater pressure from local residents in person or on social media than from members of the whip’s office communicating over WhatsApp.’
What they don't realise though is that they've made their bed: they won't be trusted - even by their new team - if they cross the floor and it won't necessarily save them either.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
As a member at the time I thought it about the only positive thing about her campaign. What else was she going to say? “I’m running to prop up Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn”. No point I’m running nationally if you don’t at least make a pretence of ambition.
She sounded like an idiot. Not me - the feedback on the doorsteps. I was really surprised at the vehemence.
Yes, but she increased the Lib Dem vote 60%. The lesson of the last few years is very, very clear: attention trumps everything. "Bollocks to Brexit" and "next PM" were pugnacious messages that got attention. And that means exciting some people and revolting others. I'm far from surprised people were wound up by her. But that's the ecosystem we live in.
She lost her seat. If there isn't a better indicator for a shit campaign....
That definitely needs to be taken in as evidence, but you can't dismiss the evidence I gave. Up from 4 seats to 11, and a big spike in the number of voters in the plus column, and losing her own seat in the minus column.
Eh?
They went from 12 seats to 11.
Albeit with far more votes than in 2017.
Apologies, I made a mistake. I saw "4" in the previous election's page but that was how many seats Wet Lettuce Farron gained, not how many he won overall.
I thought the -1 in 2019 was because of the defections, which is unfair to count as losses. But I was wrong.
Man, FPTP is bafflingly rubbish.
The LDs seats are remarkably uncorrelated with moves in vote share.
In 1997, they went from 17.8% to 16.8%, and almost trebled their number of seats.
In 2010, they increased their vote share from 22% to 23% and were rewarded by the loss of a tenth of their seats.
In 2017, their vote dropped by a tenth, and they increased their number of seats by 50%... and then in 2019, they saw their vote leap, and saw a decline.
I think they are poised to repeat the trick at the next GE. 2019 put them in 2nd place in a lot of places and some Con fallback could see the LDs take seats without their voteshare rising much if any.
I'm bullish on LD gains at GE24. It's a key strand of GTTO and I think GE24 will deliver that outcome.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
"Why do we know more about Mars than we do the vagina? A new book asks why an everyday body part is still largely a mystery to medical science Rosamund Urwin"
CBA to circumvent the paywall but I strongly doubt our knowledge of the vag is particularly adrift of any other organ. The central q in every case is Why do we get cancer of it, and how can we stop?
Mind you we've made great strides in recent years, we used to think people who had them, were women. Astonishing.
We have, fairly recently, discovered the clitoris is much bigger than we thought.
You could probably have left off the last 6 words for much of PB.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Comment on the Tories?
The Tories have their own issues. Too long in power and too much corruption. It seems there is an element in the party that cannot resist misbehaviour. The leader is totally unsuited to the office he holds and needs to go. The decent Tories, and they are there, have not yet found the courage to act. They need to do so soon or face a reversal of shocking proportions.
"Yes, but she [ Jo Swinson] increased the Lib Dem vote 60%."
She didn't. The Lib Dem vote in 2019 was 4.2% up on GE 2017.
In my view, she'd have done better to state the truth: that she wouldn't win, but that in many seats, voting LibDem was the ONLY option for keeping the two worst candidates for PM in living memory out of power. That forcing Johnson's, Corbyn's (and her own) tribalist supporters to confront reality could ensure a Hunt or Starmer-led Alliance that'd keep Brexit Britain in the Single Market.
But it wasn't just Labour and the Tories that would have none of this: the LibDem 2019 Conference was almost messianic in its determination to vote itself out of any real ability to win any more seats.
The question now is whether the Lib Dems' extraordinary success in leading sensible, Johnsonism-thrashing, alliances in Oxfordshire, Cambridge and Cumbria can be extended elsewhere this May. And then whether that model can help restore grown up government to the country as a whole in 2023/2024.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
I think there is a strong argument that there were people who were sick of Labour taking them for granted, who got elected as Tories, and, were they to receive an offer from Labour would, by definition, no longer being taken for granted.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Comment on the Tories?
Rayner gets the benefit of doubt. She's very rough, but there's good within.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains those elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
I agree with her, and I was a tory all the way from 1979 to 2020.
She lost her seat. If there is a better indicator for a shit campaign...do tell.
Her mistake, apart from providing you with some entertainment, was to misunderstand the notion of the sovereignty and supremacy of Parliament. It's something we hear periodically - parliament is supreme - actually, no, it isn't. Parliament is both a product of and subservient to the will of the people, the former via the electoral process and the latter when referenda are called.
Some issues (membership of the EU, the electoral system, the independence of Scotland) are deemed so important as to be "above" Parliament and are directly decided by the will of the people. Whether you think that's right or not, the rule of the game is if the people speak, you do what they tell you.
If, instead of a referendum, the Conservative Party had won an election on a commitment to leave the EU (Labour ran on the same commitment in 1983) it could have passed legislation mandating our withdrawal but if at the next election Labour won on a commitment to keep us in or take us back into the EU that would then be the position.
To their credit, and I don't often say that, although they were on the wrong side of the referendum on the creation of a London Mayor, I have never heard a Conservative argue for the abolition of the Mayor's office, the GLA and a return to the "direct rule" of the Home Secretary over the Met. Blair had a referendum and the people of London voted for a mayor - had he installed a Mayor without such a referendum, I could certainly imagine a future Conservative Government pledging its abolition.
My recollection from 1998 is that the Tories didn't so much oppose the Mayoralty as the pointless expensive talking shop (sorry, "London Assembly") it was bundled with.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
Not to me she isn't. I love her, and I'm hoping I never recover.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
I think there is a strong argument that there were people who were sick of Labour taking them for granted, who got elected as Tories, and, were they to receive an offer from Labour would, by definition, no longer being taken for granted.
So they're playing the long game? Interesting.
It's why I wonder if 2019 will really be a one off election.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
I think there is a strong argument that there were people who were sick of Labour taking them for granted, who got elected as Tories, and, were they to receive an offer from Labour would, by definition, no longer being taken for granted.
I think that labour took Scotland for granted until it was too late. It did the same with the red wall. What happens next will be fascinating. It’s perfectly possible that the red wall will return ‘home’, but labour would be foolish to assume that. There has been a lot of demographic shift up north. And like it or not, Brexit was delivered.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains those elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
I agree with her, and I was a tory all the way from 1979 to 2020.
Likewise Tory from my first election in 1992, member until 2015. Cannot see how they can recover from this iniquity in the 20-30 years I have left in me.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
In all fairness to Angie Baby, whilst the Conservatives have, for example, Priti Patel and Nadine Dorries in the Cabinet and the likes of Chope, Bridgen, and Philip Davies (I could have listed several dozen more) sitting on the Conservative benches, you really are in pots and kettles country.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
In all fairness to Angie Baby, whilst the Conservatives have, for example, Priti Patel and Nadine Dorries in the Cabinet and the likes of Chope, Bridgen, and Philip Davies (I could have listed several dozen more) sitting on the Conservative benches, you really are in pots and kettles country.
Absolutely, but we are talking about the context of labour winning over Tory voters. The Tories have some class A wankers of their own.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
In all fairness to Angie Baby, whilst the Conservatives have, for example, Priti Patel and Nadine Dorries in the Cabinet and the likes of Chope, Bridgen, and Philip Davies (I could have listed several dozen more) sitting on the Conservative benches, you really are in pots and kettles country.
Absolutely, but we are talking about the context of labour winning over Tory voters. The Tories have some class A wankers of their own.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
I think there is a strong argument that there were people who were sick of Labour taking them for granted, who got elected as Tories, and, were they to receive an offer from Labour would, by definition, no longer being taken for granted.
I think that labour took Scotland for granted until it was too late. It did the same with the red wall. What happens next will be fascinating. It’s perfectly possible that the red wall will return ‘home’, but labour would be foolish to assume that. There has been a lot of demographic shift up north. And like it or not, Brexit was delivered.
I agree that Scotland was one of those huge build-ups of pressure that resulted in an abrupt tectonic shift that will be very hard to reverse.
And I also agree that the same thing *may* have happened in the North. Whether it was a release of pressure or a tectonic shift we will see over the next few years.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains those elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
I agree with her, and I was a tory all the way from 1979 to 2020.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
Not to me she isn't. I love her, and I'm hoping I never recover.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
I think there is a strong argument that there were people who were sick of Labour taking them for granted, who got elected as Tories, and, were they to receive an offer from Labour would, by definition, no longer being taken for granted.
I think that labour took Scotland for granted until it was too late. It did the same with the red wall. What happens next will be fascinating. It’s perfectly possible that the red wall will return ‘home’, but labour would be foolish to assume that. There has been a lot of demographic shift up north. And like it or not, Brexit was delivered.
I agree that Scotland was one of those huge build-ups of pressure that resulted in an abrupt tectonic shift that will be very hard to reverse.
And I also agree that the same thing *may* have happened in the North. Whether it was a release of pressure or a tectonic shift we will see over the next few years.
I’m not convinced that the red wall is the same as Scotland, at least in looking ahead. But it was striking to here so many ex labour voters suggesting that labour had taken them for granted for ever. Having won their seats, the Tories needed to deliver on promises. Covid and Brexit have scuppered a lot of that.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
And yet when he tried to sack her, he failed.
Rayner is basically Starmer's female John Prescott
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
And yet when he tried to sack her, he failed.
Rayner is basically Starmer's female John Prescott
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
And yet when he tried to sack her, he failed.
Rayner is basically Starmer's female John Prescott
FWIW Andrew Neil rates Yvette. Glad to see I am not entirely alone:
"Yvette Cooper, shadow home secretary, is head and shoulders above most of her colleagues."
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
I'm glad they did that, it showed a pugnacious ambition that Lib Dems often lack. Obviously they didn't really believe it, but it was an attempt to jolt British politics out of its two party rut. A heroic failure.
So Oldham Athletic become the first Premier League club to be relegated all the way out of the league. Credit to their fans for the huge on pitch process against the owner which stopped the game for an hour.
The harsh reality - and its been like this for a while - is there are too many league clubs in Greater Manchester to be viable. When the city of Manchester has two global giants, the neighbouring city of Salford has a club and every surrounding town has a club, there's just not enough fans.
"Yes, but she [ Jo Swinson] increased the Lib Dem vote 60%."
She didn't. The Lib Dem vote in 2019 was 4.2% up on GE 2017.
In my view, she'd have done better to state the truth: that she wouldn't win, but that in many seats, voting LibDem was the ONLY option for keeping the two worst candidates for PM in living memory out of power. That forcing Johnson's, Corbyn's (and her own) tribalist supporters to confront reality could ensure a Hunt or Starmer-led Alliance that'd keep Brexit Britain in the Single Market.
But it wasn't just Labour and the Tories that would have none of this: the LibDem 2019 Conference was almost messianic in its determination to vote itself out of any real ability to win any more seats.
The question now is whether the Lib Dems' extraordinary success in leading sensible, Johnsonism-thrashing, alliances in Oxfordshire, Cambridge and Cumbria can be extended elsewhere this May. And then whether that model can help restore grown up government to the country as a whole in 2023/2024.
The LibDem vote rose from 2,371,861 to 3,696,419, an increase of 56%.
The LibDem vote share rose by 4.2 percentage points.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
So Oldham Athletic become the first Premier League club to be relegated all the way out of the league. Credit to their fans for the huge on pitch process against the owner which stopped the game for an hour.
The harsh reality - and its been like this for a while - is there are too many league clubs in Greater Manchester to be viable. When the city of Manchester has two global giants, the neighbouring city of Salford has a club and every surrounding town has a club, there's just not enough fans.
True, but Luton, the only club to have voted for the creation of the Premier League (by virtue of being in the old First Division at the relevant time) to have never played in it, have also left the league.
2019 was wild, does anyone remember Jo Swinson insisting she would be the next PM
I'm glad they did that, it showed a pugnacious ambition that Lib Dems often lack. Obviously they didn't really believe it, but it was an attempt to jolt British politics out of its two party rut. A heroic failure.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains those elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
The Labour party is also thought to be holding talks with a number of “wavering Tories” about defecting. Conservative whips are particularly concerned about Dehenna Davison, the MP for the red wall seat Bishop Auckland. Another seven Tory MPs are also believed to have held talks with Labour in recent months.
So Oldham Athletic become the first Premier League club to be relegated all the way out of the league. Credit to their fans for the huge on pitch process against the owner which stopped the game for an hour.
The harsh reality - and its been like this for a while - is there are too many league clubs in Greater Manchester to be viable. When the city of Manchester has two global giants, the neighbouring city of Salford has a club and every surrounding town has a club, there's just not enough fans.
It's the problem Scotland has, 40 professional clubs for a population of just over 5 million.
England has a population of around 10 times that but only double the number of professional clubs.
A friend of mine around 15 years ago did a report on the future of Scottish football and he suggested reducing the number of professional clubs, so just one Dundee team, one Edinburgh team, and logically one Glasgow team.
Rangers and Celtic merging, rivers of blood would be the most optimistic scenario in that situation.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
In all fairness to Angie Baby, whilst the Conservatives have, for example, Priti Patel and Nadine Dorries in the Cabinet and the likes of Chope, Bridgen, and Philip Davies (I could have listed several dozen more) sitting on the Conservative benches, you really are in pots and kettles country.
Absolutely, but we are talking about the context of labour winning over Tory voters. The Tories have some class A wankers of their own.
It goes with the territory for both major parties. Even the Blair landslides included such charmers as John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
And yet when he tried to sack her, he failed.
He can't sack her as deputy.
He can sack her, if the politics allows, from a front bench shadow minister post.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
In all fairness to Angie Baby, whilst the Conservatives have, for example, Priti Patel and Nadine Dorries in the Cabinet and the likes of Chope, Bridgen, and Philip Davies (I could have listed several dozen more) sitting on the Conservative benches, you really are in pots and kettles country.
Raynor's quite unusual. She has a fiery and implacable anti-Tory tribalism but is neither Corbynite nor Blairite. You wouldn't say she's a 'moderate', she's on the left, but her radicalism is more in her persona than her policy preferences. Also she's not that 'woke'. And she's in a small minority of leading politicians with a 'just about managing' background in low paid work after leaving school at 16 and shortly thereafter becoming a single mother. I think she's an asset both to Labour and to our politics. Her apology for the 'scum' thing was genuine imo.
Re: celebrity candidates, here are a random few I did NOT mention previously
> Jimmy Davis (Democrat) served as Gov of Louisiana two non-consecutive terms; first won election based on his stardom as country singer and author of "You are My Sunshine". During his first term, Davis starred in a movie about a country singer who . . . wait for it . . . get himself elected Governor of Louisiana.
> Helen Gahagan Douglas (Democrat) opera singer and actor on stage & screen, elected to US House, subsequently defeated for US Senate by . . . wait for it . . . Richard Nixon.
> Sonny Bono (Republican) star singer, half of Sonny & Cher, elected mayor of Palm Springs, CA and subsequently to US House from CA.
> Fred Gandy (Republican) actor best know for role of Gopher on "The Love Boat" elected to US House from Iowa
> Jack Kemp (Republican) was star for Occidental College [Los Angeles] and in NFL for Buffalo Bills; elected to US House from Buffalo [New York] and was Bob Dole's 1996 running mate for Vice President.
> Steve Largent (Republican) a star quarterback for University of Tulsa [Oklahoma] and in NFL for Seattle Seahawks, elected to US House from Tulsa
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
True. IIRC, for the 4 elections in the 2010s fewer than half of voters voted for the same party in all 4.
I had a nice trrixie up at Sandown today, 1st 3 winners. I toyed doing Nicholls to win all 7 races but did not, 5 winners would have been worth a few bob though so cost me.
Still got it on the horses, Malcolm, haven't you? Not such a wasted youth after all.
For sure I put in plenty of practice as a boy. I used to mark the boards in days when it was all done by speaker only. Used to light the coal fire. I was into all sorts then , pitch and toss, cards etc. Much more subdued nowadays, just small bets on the horses nowadays for fun. I love the jumps.
So Oldham Athletic become the first Premier League club to be relegated all the way out of the league. Credit to their fans for the huge on pitch process against the owner which stopped the game for an hour.
The harsh reality - and its been like this for a while - is there are too many league clubs in Greater Manchester to be viable. When the city of Manchester has two global giants, the neighbouring city of Salford has a club and every surrounding town has a club, there's just not enough fans.
But most of those clubs have probably been in existence for a century or more. The population isn't decreasing. I don't believe football is getting less popular. So what gives?
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
In all fairness to Angie Baby, whilst the Conservatives have, for example, Priti Patel and Nadine Dorries in the Cabinet and the likes of Chope, Bridgen, and Philip Davies (I could have listed several dozen more) sitting on the Conservative benches, you really are in pots and kettles country.
Raynor's quite unusual. She has a fiery and implacable anti-Tory tribalism but is neither Corbynite nor Blairite. You wouldn't say she's a 'moderate', she's on the left, but her radicalism is more in her persona than her policy preferences. Also she's not that 'woke'. And she's in a small minority of leading politicians with a 'just about managing' background in low paid work after leaving school at 16 and shortly thereafter becoming a single mother. I think she's an asset both to Labour and to our politics. Her apology for the 'scum' thing was genuine imo.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
An awful lot of voters are neither Tory or labour, or indeed any party. They pick and choose. I’m certain that many voters who voted Tory in 2019 in the past voted for Tony Blair’s labour. That’s the nature of things. It’s why I despair of some of the lefts attitude to conservatives (scum, never kissed a Tory etc). You need those voters to get you into power so you can actually change the country.
Not my Labour Party
Your Labour Party contains elements. Angela Raynor really believes Tories are scum.
So does the Tory Party, the point is that in Labour these voices are now irrelevant
Are they? Certainly starmer has helped to restrain the worst excesses of the left, but Raynor is still there.
Rayner is irrelevant.
The deputy leader of the party is irrelevant? It’s a view I suppose.
She has no power to do anything, the NEC is run by Starmer supporters. All Rayner can do is shout from the sidelines.
And yet when he tried to sack her, he failed.
Rayner is basically Starmer's female John Prescott
FWIW Andrew Neil rates Yvette. Glad to see I am not entirely alone:
"Yvette Cooper, shadow home secretary, is head and shoulders above most of her colleagues."
Re: celebrity candidates, here are a random few I did NOT mention previously
> Jimmy Davis (Democrat) served as Gov of Louisiana two non-consecutive terms; first won election based on his stardom as country singer and author of "You are My Sunshine". During his first term, Davis starred in a movie about a country singer who . . . wait for it . . . get himself elected Governor of Louisiana.
> Helen Gahagan Douglas (Democrat) opera singer and actor on stage & screen, elected to US House, subsequently defeated for US Senate by . . . wait for it . . . Richard Nixon.
> Sonny Bono (Republican) star singer, half of Sonny & Cher, elected mayor of Palm Springs, CA and subsequently to US House from CA.
> Fred Gandy (Republican) actor best know for role of Gopher on "The Love Boat" elected to US House from Iowa
> Jack Kemp (Republican) was star for Occidental College [Los Angeles] and in NFL for Buffalo Bills; elected to US House from Buffalo [New York] and was Bob Dole's 1996 running mate for Vice President.
> Steve Largent (Republican) a star quarterback for University of Tulsa [Oklahoma] and in NFL for Seattle Seahawks, elected to US House from Tulsa
The movie “Predator” starred two future state governors.
So Oldham Athletic become the first Premier League club to be relegated all the way out of the league. Credit to their fans for the huge on pitch process against the owner which stopped the game for an hour.
The harsh reality - and its been like this for a while - is there are too many league clubs in Greater Manchester to be viable. When the city of Manchester has two global giants, the neighbouring city of Salford has a club and every surrounding town has a club, there's just not enough fans.
But most of those clubs have probably been in existence for a century or more. The population isn't decreasing. I don't believe football is getting less popular. So what gives?
More top flight matches on TV.
New supporters end up following the big teams.
On a Saturday, the lunch time match ends at just before 2.30pm and the evening match kicks off at 5.30pm which doesn't give much opportunity to go to matches at Oldham.
Although Oldham's problem are down to having shit owners.
I've always wondered if the 2019 "Tories" are really Tories at all, I wonder if in years gone by they would have been in New Labour
Personally, I doubt it.
Always be suspicious of anyone who newly converts with much zeal.
When former Democrat Wendell Wilkie was running for Republican nomination in 1940, one old-line GOP senator commented (I paraphrase) that it he was reminded of how the leading prostitute in his home town suddenly saw the light and joined the church.
She was welcomed into the church, of course - but nobody thought of making her head of the choir.
Comments
I thought the -1 in 2019 was because of the defections, which is unfair to count as losses. But I was wrong.
Man, FPTP is bafflingly rubbish.
Writing the morning thread and I was trying to write
'then Sir Keir Starmer will become Prime Minister, especially as the Conservatives appear to be utterly uncoalitionable'
however I wrote
In 1997, they went from 17.8% to 16.8%, and almost trebled their number of seats.
In 2010, they increased their vote share from 22% to 23% and were rewarded by the loss of a tenth of their seats.
In 2017, their vote dropped by a tenth, and they increased their number of seats by 50%... and then in 2019, they saw their vote leap, and saw a decline.
Mind you we've made great strides in recent years, we used to think people who had them, were women. Astonishing.
Some issues (membership of the EU, the electoral system, the independence of Scotland) are deemed so important as to be "above" Parliament and are directly decided by the will of the people. Whether you think that's right or not, the rule of the game is if the people speak, you do what they tell you.
If, instead of a referendum, the Conservative Party had won an election on a commitment to leave the EU (Labour ran on the same commitment in 1983) it could have passed legislation mandating our withdrawal but if at the next election Labour won on a commitment to keep us in or take us back into the EU that would then be the position.
To their credit, and I don't often say that, although they were on the wrong side of the referendum on the creation of a London Mayor, I have never heard a Conservative argue for the abolition of the Mayor's office, the GLA and a return to the "direct rule" of the Home Secretary over the Met. Blair had a referendum and the people of London voted for a mayor - had he installed a Mayor without such a referendum, I could certainly imagine a future Conservative Government pledging its abolition.
So yes, a shit campaign and she did kill her own career. But, conversely, it paved the way for the coming rebuild with best part of a hundred seats where the party is now in strong second.
From that artricle
Three cabinet ministers and two shadow cabinet ministers are facing allegations of sexual misconduct after being reported to the parliamentary watchdog set up in the wake of the #MeToo scandal.
They are among 56 MPs who have been referred to the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme (ICGS) over about 70 separate complaints.
Maybe we should sack the lot and appoint a new Parliament from PB contributors !!!!!
But she would have gone on to say "to prevent the implementation of Brexit...."
K-A-B-O-O-M!
But I have so many memes on this.
and
so it is how they perform relative to the Tory party which determines how many seats they lose or gain.
But, it may be that their ideology is a mile wide but an inch deep - with careerism underneath.
‘In 2019, 109 Conservative MPs were elected to parliament for the first time. Many of them were neophytes who barely knew nor cared about the rules and conventions of politics. A significant number of red wall MPs also felt a greater loyalty to their constituents than to the Conservative Party itself.
In a normal parliament, whips might have developed close personal relationships with members of their flock and inspired the loyalty, or fear, on which a successful whipping operation is based. Covid, however, undermined that. MPs have instead spent much of the past two years in their constituencies and often felt greater pressure from local residents in person or on social media than from members of the whip’s office communicating over WhatsApp.’
https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/01/23/defection-watch/
Maybe it should be seen more as jury duty.
Always be suspicious of anyone who newly converts with much zeal.
What they don't realise though is that they've made their bed: they won't be trusted - even by their new team - if they cross the floor and it won't necessarily save them either.
Long way to go, only a fool etc etc ...
She didn't. The Lib Dem vote in 2019 was 4.2% up on GE 2017.
In my view, she'd have done better to state the truth: that she wouldn't win, but that in many seats, voting LibDem was the ONLY option for keeping the two worst candidates for PM in living memory out of power. That forcing Johnson's, Corbyn's (and her own) tribalist supporters to confront reality could ensure a Hunt or Starmer-led Alliance that'd keep Brexit Britain in the Single Market.
But it wasn't just Labour and the Tories that would have none of this: the LibDem 2019 Conference was almost messianic in its determination to vote itself out of any real ability to win any more seats.
The question now is whether the Lib Dems' extraordinary success in leading sensible, Johnsonism-thrashing, alliances in Oxfordshire, Cambridge and Cumbria can be extended elsewhere this May. And then whether that model can help restore grown up government to the country as a whole in 2023/2024.
It's why I wonder if 2019 will really be a one off election.
The Tories have some class A wankers of their own.
And I also agree that the same thing *may* have happened in the North. Whether it was a release of pressure or a tectonic shift we will see over the next few years.
Having won their seats, the Tories needed to deliver on promises. Covid and Brexit have scuppered a lot of that.
"Yvette Cooper, shadow home secretary, is head and shoulders above most of her colleagues."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10744797/ANDREW-NEIL-says-struggling-Starmer-offer-Britain.html
The harsh reality - and its been like this for a while - is there are too many league clubs in Greater Manchester to be viable. When the city of Manchester has two global giants, the neighbouring city of Salford has a club and every surrounding town has a club, there's just not enough fans.
The LibDem vote share rose by 4.2 percentage points.
England has a population of around 10 times that but only double the number of professional clubs.
A friend of mine around 15 years ago did a report on the future of Scottish football and he suggested reducing the number of professional clubs, so just one Dundee team, one Edinburgh team, and logically one Glasgow team.
Rangers and Celtic merging, rivers of blood would be the most optimistic scenario in that situation.
He can sack her, if the politics allows, from a front bench shadow minister post.
> Jimmy Davis (Democrat) served as Gov of Louisiana two non-consecutive terms; first won election based on his stardom as country singer and author of "You are My Sunshine". During his first term, Davis starred in a movie about a country singer who . . . wait for it . . . get himself elected Governor of Louisiana.
> Helen Gahagan Douglas (Democrat) opera singer and actor on stage & screen, elected to US House, subsequently defeated for US Senate by . . . wait for it . . . Richard Nixon.
> Sonny Bono (Republican) star singer, half of Sonny & Cher, elected mayor of Palm Springs, CA and subsequently to US House from CA.
> Fred Gandy (Republican) actor best know for role of Gopher on "The Love Boat" elected to US House from Iowa
> Jack Kemp (Republican) was star for Occidental College [Los Angeles] and in NFL for Buffalo Bills; elected to US House from Buffalo [New York] and was Bob Dole's 1996 running mate for Vice President.
> Steve Largent (Republican) a star quarterback for University of Tulsa [Oklahoma] and in NFL for Seattle Seahawks, elected to US House from Tulsa
New supporters end up following the big teams.
On a Saturday, the lunch time match ends at just before 2.30pm and the evening match kicks off at 5.30pm which doesn't give much opportunity to go to matches at Oldham.
Although Oldham's problem are down to having shit owners.
Edit - See also Bury.
She was welcomed into the church, of course - but nobody thought of making her head of the choir.