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Sunak sees a colossal drop in his favourability ratings – politicalbetting.com

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  • Tories behind in the polls? Johnson and Sunak sinking?

    I know, play the trans culture war card!
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Dead Russian soldier allegedly found with “extracted gold crowns” on his person

    https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1511736510982332419?s=21&t=iI5Kps6SxtiMs3WONmCRWQ

    Even the most ghastly regime can't be held responsible for the acts of individuals under its command. I suspect there are Russian soldiers out there trying not to blindly kill. I certainly don't see Putin as responsible for their acts.

    If this type of act was an isolated one, I might have a little sympathy for this view. There are probably a few wrong 'uns in every army. But there is no shortage of stories of similar horrific acts, whilst the rhetoric from Moscow is all about destroying Ukraine as a nation and viewing Ukrainians as somehow sub-human.

    I think it's entirely fair to blame the regime in this instance.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,579
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Just listened to Boris on Sky on transgender and partygate debates..

    On transgender he said

    He does not agree children should face conversion therapy as this should be a parental decision

    He said that male transgender women should not compete in women's events

    He believes women should have safe space in toilets, prisons etc


    On partygate

    He said he will not comment before the police have concluded their investigations at which time he will make a statement on the subject


    On transgender he seems to have made a sensible statement

    On partygate is he thinking if he receives a FPN will he confound everyone and decide to give notice to the conservative party to commence the election of his successor at which time he will stand down

    This is a betting site and as improbable as it seems it is not impossible

    On transgender, let us pick apart those views:

    He does not agree children should face conversion therapy as this should be a parental decision
    - If by 'conversion therapy' he means puberty blockers and/or cross-sex hormones then it's an interesting one. When do you need to use puberty blockers to be effective? In childhood (cross-sex hormones are not available until post-16 anyway, afaik)

    He said that male transgender women should not compete in women's events
    - Not sure quite what that means - transgender women still with male anatomy? For me, I'd base decisions on whether there is likely to be an advantage beyond normal variation - for many sports of strength/stamina there may well be, certainly for anyone who reached adulthood as a man. But for a birth male who got puberty blockers pre-puberty and cross-sex hormones at 16? Maybe there is still an advantage, I do not know.

    He believes women should have safe space in toilets, prisons etc
    - Indeed. What about transgender women? Are they safe in male toilets/prisons etc?

    I'm not necessarily taking the opposite viewpoint, although it may appear that way. But these are complicated issues that don't have quick soundbite answers. Should a Gillick competent 13 year old female who wants to be a male be denied treatment that would prevent breast growth until they are 16 and already have breasts? On the other hand, is a 13 year old really able to choose treatment that might make them infertile for life?

    Complicated issues, without easy answers.
    It seems complicated to some but Boris laid out a clear position that I suspect is the position of many
    You may well be right. Johnson is good at clear simple positions* on complicated issues and many people seem to like that. Same with Brexit, too.

    *of course, he changes his clear simple positions quite often, border in Irish sea etc...
    It’s worth listening to his actual words first:

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1511669445877551104
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,216
    On Channel 4 - my understanding of it is that no one wants to buy it and also invest money in programming. Also £1bn is a fantasy valuation. Anyone with £1bn to spend is buying 7-9 production houses that can make 5-6 seasons of something per year which they can sell to Netflix for £60-90m per season.

    The government is on a hiding to nothing with C4. They would have been better giving it away but on the provision of a minimum investment in UK production as part of the deal.
  • Applicant said:

    Tories behind in the polls? Johnson and Sunak sinking?

    I know, play the trans culture war card!

    And, once again, the Left having started a culture war complains when the Right responds.
    It was Starmer who was interviwed by Sky first on this today and Sky then interviwed Boris

    It is the media raising the issue and politicians responding

    However, if a politician is not careful that politician could alienate an awful lot of women
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,985
    LucyJones said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Dead Russian soldier allegedly found with “extracted gold crowns” on his person

    https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1511736510982332419?s=21&t=iI5Kps6SxtiMs3WONmCRWQ

    Even the most ghastly regime can't be held responsible for the acts of individuals under its command. I suspect there are Russian soldiers out there trying not to blindly kill. I certainly don't see Putin as responsible for their acts.

    If this type of act was an isolated one, I might have a little sympathy for this view. There are probably a few wrong 'uns in every army. But there is no shortage of stories of similar horrific acts, whilst the rhetoric from Moscow is all about destroying Ukraine as a nation and viewing Ukrainians as somehow sub-human.

    I think it's entirely fair to blame the regime in this instance.
    The Russian regime is horrible, and it's leader should be shot dead. The acts of one soldier cannot be layed at his door though. I suspect that this is an example of wholesale barbarity on the part of Russian forces, but suspicions have no place in comdemning a man.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,579

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The BBC is great. The Ukraine war underlines its value. Arguments about the licence fee are used as a fig leaf by people who object to the BBC for various political reasons.

    To an extent. But I'm not convinced that's the whole of it.

    Personally I deeply value the news output and think, whilst there are other news outlers out there, that its worth paying for a national broadcaster. But I find it hard to justify in the modern age about paying for all the entertainment aspects it seeks to provide. It's not particularly good compared to anything else, is it any more unique? The back catalogue is a great boon, to be sure, and there is stuff made that can be sold, but is that worth paying for?

    Either way, it gets attacked from left and right at times, though more on the right, so I think the current set up just cannot hold.
    The right seem to prefer that we get our news and entertainment from oligarchs albeit of various flavours. If anything has had its day it is that.
    Sky is American owned
    And the company that owns it is controlled by an American oligarch. They call it a 'family business'.
    America is many things, but it is not by any fair measure an oligarchy, unlike Russia. It is therefore not possible for an American to be an Oligarch, however insanely rich.
    The description doesn't really fit Russia either since Putin took all the main economic entities under his control.
  • Applicant said:

    Tories behind in the polls? Johnson and Sunak sinking?

    I know, play the trans culture war card!

    And, once again, the Left having started a culture war complains when the Right responds.
    The public are going "WTF" and abandoning the Tories.

    How about addressing real issues like cost of living. Anything yet?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,070
    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    I think most companies would kill for a yearly injection of money that came come rain or shine, in addition to its commercial activities. I don't think money is the problem. Apart from the 6 episodes format, it's shitty writing, having to (even more than other media outlets) inject leaden politically-correct homilies into everything, and just having an indefinable insipid 'BBC-ness' about almost every drama it puts out.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,070

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    The BBC is great. The Ukraine war underlines its value. Arguments about the licence fee are used as a fig leaf by people who object to the BBC for various political reasons.

    To an extent. But I'm not convinced that's the whole of it.

    Personally I deeply value the news output and think, whilst there are other news outlers out there, that its worth paying for a national broadcaster. But I find it hard to justify in the modern age about paying for all the entertainment aspects it seeks to provide. It's not particularly good compared to anything else, is it any more unique? The back catalogue is a great boon, to be sure, and there is stuff made that can be sold, but is that worth paying for?

    Either way, it gets attacked from left and right at times, though more on the right, so I think the current set up just cannot hold.
    The right seem to prefer that we get our news and entertainment from oligarchs albeit of various flavours. If anything has had its day it is that.
    Sky is American owned
    And the company that owns it is controlled by an American oligarch. They call it a 'family business'.
    America is many things, but it is not by any fair measure an oligarchy, unlike Russia. It is therefore not possible for an American to be an Oligarch, however insanely rich.
    The description doesn't really fit Russia either since Putin took all the main economic entities under his control.
    And ironically, the sanctions against them have neutered the oligarchs ability to do anything about Putin even more.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    On topic, I did say Rishi was a clear lay in the next leader election 😀
  • Cost of living? Crickets
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    MaxPB said:

    On Channel 4 - my understanding of it is that no one wants to buy it and also invest money in programming. Also £1bn is a fantasy valuation. Anyone with £1bn to spend is buying 7-9 production houses that can make 5-6 seasons of something per year which they can sell to Netflix for £60-90m per season.

    The government is on a hiding to nothing with C4. They would have been better giving it away but on the provision of a minimum investment in UK production as part of the deal.

    Not necessarily so. ITV is quite keen apparently as is Sky due to the synergy /consolidation of the market angle. A bit harder to see the economics for an outside player.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    MaxPB said:

    It's striking how much support Boris Johnson is getting for his comments on trans issues from people who are not his natural supporters. This one is typical:

    @annettepacey
    Oh god oh no someone I loathe just made a really good point. Still could never bring myself to vote for the bastard but this is what happens when Labour turn their backs on women and leave an open goal #labourlosingwomen


    https://twitter.com/annettepacey/status/1511691419647455237

    No, I've been told by PB experts that saying women have cocks won't hurt Labour.
    Boris's comments are quite good and thoughtful.

    The Trans Activist usual approach is to ram through their preferred measures before anyone gets any time to reflect properly upon the issue, and this is more considered.

    Here is what BJ said. This is I think the full video of 1:39. Sky also seem to be putting out a truncated one at 1:04 length.

    https://news.sky.com/story/pm-says-biological-males-should-not-compete-in-female-sport-and-venues-should-have-women-only-spaces-12583536

    I haven't got my head around the latest kerfuffle.

    Does, for example, the (Aiui) long-held Trans-Activist demand to be allowed to medicate without supervision children who are deemed by their parents to be trans count as Conversion Therapy? If so, the various organisations are demanding that this be banned.

    ISTM very important that required time is taken.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,985

    Applicant said:

    Tories behind in the polls? Johnson and Sunak sinking?

    I know, play the trans culture war card!

    And, once again, the Left having started a culture war complains when the Right responds.
    The public are going "WTF" and abandoning the Tories.

    How about addressing real issues like cost of living. Anything yet?
    You're right CHB. CoL issues are really important, but it's just not something politicians should get involved in. State control isn't good.

    If you actually want a state controlled economy then that's fine. You'll hate the consequences though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    edited April 2022
    Jonathan said:

    Westminster refurbishment estimated to cost £22b. That's a lot of channel4s. Perhaps we could make saving there and a few other places. Heck the Brexit £350m/wk Brexit dividend Boris promised should pay for Ch4 before the end of the month.

    Time to simplify.

    The buggers could have finished HS2 with that, perhaps even including the billions spent stuffing Nimby mouths with gold.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,374
    edited April 2022
    MrEd said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Channel 4 - my understanding of it is that no one wants to buy it and also invest money in programming. Also £1bn is a fantasy valuation. Anyone with £1bn to spend is buying 7-9 production houses that can make 5-6 seasons of something per year which they can sell to Netflix for £60-90m per season.

    The government is on a hiding to nothing with C4. They would have been better giving it away but on the provision of a minimum investment in UK production as part of the deal.

    Not necessarily so. ITV is quite keen apparently as is Sky due to the synergy /consolidation of the market angle. A bit harder to see the economics for an outside player.
    If ITV bought it, but crucially a public service clause or stake was reserved by the government, it would probably make it legally even easier to return it to its original intended structure, and actually make it function properly again. Shared resources and production ( ITN still makes Channel 4 News ), and shared revenue, with the much larger helping weight of ITV revenue allowing it that creative freedom that was intended all the way back in the first place, and then lost with the changes.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,579
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's striking how much support Boris Johnson is getting for his comments on trans issues from people who are not his natural supporters. This one is typical:

    @annettepacey
    Oh god oh no someone I loathe just made a really good point. Still could never bring myself to vote for the bastard but this is what happens when Labour turn their backs on women and leave an open goal #labourlosingwomen


    https://twitter.com/annettepacey/status/1511691419647455237

    No, I've been told by PB experts that saying women have cocks won't hurt Labour.
    Boris's comments are quite good and thoughtful.

    The Trans Activist usual approach is to ram through their preferred measures before anyone gets any time to reflect properly upon the issue, and this is more considered.

    Here is what BJ said. This is I think the full video of 1:39. Sky also seem to be putting out a truncated one at 1:04 length.

    https://news.sky.com/story/pm-says-biological-males-should-not-compete-in-female-sport-and-venues-should-have-women-only-spaces-12583536
    This version is three and a half minutes:

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1511669445877551104
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    edited April 2022
    kle4 said:

    Applicant said:

    George Galloway has been given a special designation by Twitter:

    image

    And, as should come as no great surprise, he's already threatening legal action...

    https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1511729349204103170
    Note how the second thing he brings up is his follower count. People are so proud.

    The second thing to note is that of the things he lists only not working for Russian media would be relevant - being the leader of a party and spending time in parliament wouldn't mean he couldn't be a paid russian shill. Heck, you can be a former leader of a country and do that.

    Dear TwitterSupport I am not “Russian State Affiliated media”. I work for NO #Russian media. I have 400,000 followers. I’m the leader of a British political party and spent nearly 30 years in the British parliament. If you do not remove this designation I will take legal action
    I thought for a minute that @kle4 was getting above him / her / it self. :smile:

    But it turns out to be the gallowanker.


  • Omnium said:

    Applicant said:

    Tories behind in the polls? Johnson and Sunak sinking?

    I know, play the trans culture war card!

    And, once again, the Left having started a culture war complains when the Right responds.
    The public are going "WTF" and abandoning the Tories.

    How about addressing real issues like cost of living. Anything yet?
    You're right CHB. CoL issues are really important, but it's just not something politicians should get involved in. State control isn't good.

    If you actually want a state controlled economy then that's fine. You'll hate the consequences though.
    Corbyn style ?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,216
    MrEd said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Channel 4 - my understanding of it is that no one wants to buy it and also invest money in programming. Also £1bn is a fantasy valuation. Anyone with £1bn to spend is buying 7-9 production houses that can make 5-6 seasons of something per year which they can sell to Netflix for £60-90m per season.

    The government is on a hiding to nothing with C4. They would have been better giving it away but on the provision of a minimum investment in UK production as part of the deal.

    Not necessarily so. ITV is quite keen apparently as is Sky due to the synergy /consolidation of the market angle. A bit harder to see the economics for an outside player.
    But that's not going to get it to £1bn and ITV will be faced with competition concerns. Sky may just want it for the slot on terrestrial. C4 owns very little of the content it shows, it's merely an aggregator of other people's content. The value is minimal.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,579
    @ChassNews
    The mood in France, according to veteran pollster @BriceTeinturier : "More people say the country and their personal situation would improve if Marine Le Pen is president than if it it is Macron"


    https://twitter.com/ChassNews/status/1511750591218913290
  • Farooq said:

    Omnium said:

    Applicant said:

    Tories behind in the polls? Johnson and Sunak sinking?

    I know, play the trans culture war card!

    And, once again, the Left having started a culture war complains when the Right responds.
    The public are going "WTF" and abandoning the Tories.

    How about addressing real issues like cost of living. Anything yet?
    You're right CHB. CoL issues are really important, but it's just not something politicians should get involved in. State control isn't good.

    If you actually want a state controlled economy then that's fine. You'll hate the consequences though.
    Corbyn style ?
    Or, indeed, Brexit style. Government deciding how many immigrants in which sectors businesses need. Nothing like a good quota. Are we onto Five Year Plans yet?
    I agree with you and we should move nearer to a Norway style deal
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,637

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Just listened to Boris on Sky on transgender and partygate debates..

    On transgender he said

    He does not agree children should face conversion therapy as this should be a parental decision

    He said that male transgender women should not compete in women's events

    He believes women should have safe space in toilets, prisons etc


    On partygate

    He said he will not comment before the police have concluded their investigations at which time he will make a statement on the subject


    On transgender he seems to have made a sensible statement

    On partygate is he thinking if he receives a FPN will he confound everyone and decide to give notice to the conservative party to commence the election of his successor at which time he will stand down

    This is a betting site and as improbable as it seems it is not impossible

    On transgender, let us pick apart those views:

    He does not agree children should face conversion therapy as this should be a parental decision
    - If by 'conversion therapy' he means puberty blockers and/or cross-sex hormones then it's an interesting one. When do you need to use puberty blockers to be effective? In childhood (cross-sex hormones are not available until post-16 anyway, afaik)

    He said that male transgender women should not compete in women's events
    - Not sure quite what that means - transgender women still with male anatomy? For me, I'd base decisions on whether there is likely to be an advantage beyond normal variation - for many sports of strength/stamina there may well be, certainly for anyone who reached adulthood as a man. But for a birth male who got puberty blockers pre-puberty and cross-sex hormones at 16? Maybe there is still an advantage, I do not know.

    He believes women should have safe space in toilets, prisons etc
    - Indeed. What about transgender women? Are they safe in male toilets/prisons etc?

    I'm not necessarily taking the opposite viewpoint, although it may appear that way. But these are complicated issues that don't have quick soundbite answers. Should a Gillick competent 13 year old female who wants to be a male be denied treatment that would prevent breast growth until they are 16 and already have breasts? On the other hand, is a 13 year old really able to choose treatment that might make them infertile for life?

    Complicated issues, without easy answers.
    It seems complicated to some but Boris laid out a clear position that I suspect is the position of many
    You may well be right. Johnson is good at clear simple positions* on complicated issues and many people seem to like that. Same with Brexit, too.

    *of course, he changes his clear simple positions quite often, border in Irish sea etc...
    Indeed but this is the first time I have heard him clearly set out his position
    'clearly'? It's impossible to be clear and simple on a complex matter. If you believe him, he's conning you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    TimT said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Dead Russian soldier allegedly found with “extracted gold crowns” on his person

    https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1511736510982332419?s=21&t=iI5Kps6SxtiMs3WONmCRWQ

    Even the most ghastly regime can't be held responsible for the acts of individuals under its command. I suspect there are Russian soldiers out there trying not to blindly kill. I certainly don't see Putin as responsible for their acts.
    But troop discipline is the responsibility of states. One bad actor, who is suitably tracked down and punished, is one thing, and you could argue the state was not at fault. This level of raping, looting and pillaging - absolutely, the state bears responsibility.
    Yes, the systemic and indiscriminate nature of their operations against civilians generally inform how frequent more individualised atrocities are likely to be, I suspect.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    edited April 2022
    I love that GG brands himself as being in outer space:



    Was this down to the show, or branding his son's hairdo with a Z, like a Russian tank?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    I liked this one. Reminds me of our dear friend, the Iraqi Information Minister, Muhammad al-Sahhaf, a.k.a. Comical Ali

    Sputnik
    @Sputnik_Not
    ·
    1h
    Kremlin says presenting evidence of secret NATO bases in Ukraine is difficult as they are disguised as bio labs which are disguised as Azov bases which are disguised as residential buildings which are protected by weaponized birds
  • Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Just listened to Boris on Sky on transgender and partygate debates..

    On transgender he said

    He does not agree children should face conversion therapy as this should be a parental decision

    He said that male transgender women should not compete in women's events

    He believes women should have safe space in toilets, prisons etc


    On partygate

    He said he will not comment before the police have concluded their investigations at which time he will make a statement on the subject


    On transgender he seems to have made a sensible statement

    On partygate is he thinking if he receives a FPN will he confound everyone and decide to give notice to the conservative party to commence the election of his successor at which time he will stand down

    This is a betting site and as improbable as it seems it is not impossible

    On transgender, let us pick apart those views:

    He does not agree children should face conversion therapy as this should be a parental decision
    - If by 'conversion therapy' he means puberty blockers and/or cross-sex hormones then it's an interesting one. When do you need to use puberty blockers to be effective? In childhood (cross-sex hormones are not available until post-16 anyway, afaik)

    He said that male transgender women should not compete in women's events
    - Not sure quite what that means - transgender women still with male anatomy? For me, I'd base decisions on whether there is likely to be an advantage beyond normal variation - for many sports of strength/stamina there may well be, certainly for anyone who reached adulthood as a man. But for a birth male who got puberty blockers pre-puberty and cross-sex hormones at 16? Maybe there is still an advantage, I do not know.

    He believes women should have safe space in toilets, prisons etc
    - Indeed. What about transgender women? Are they safe in male toilets/prisons etc?

    I'm not necessarily taking the opposite viewpoint, although it may appear that way. But these are complicated issues that don't have quick soundbite answers. Should a Gillick competent 13 year old female who wants to be a male be denied treatment that would prevent breast growth until they are 16 and already have breasts? On the other hand, is a 13 year old really able to choose treatment that might make them infertile for life?

    Complicated issues, without easy answers.
    It seems complicated to some but Boris laid out a clear position that I suspect is the position of many
    You may well be right. Johnson is good at clear simple positions* on complicated issues and many people seem to like that. Same with Brexit, too.

    *of course, he changes his clear simple positions quite often, border in Irish sea etc...
    Indeed but this is the first time I have heard him clearly set out his position
    'clearly'? It's impossible to be clear and simple on a complex matter. If you believe him, he's conning you.
    Seems he has pleased Mumsnet

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1511731514584805390?t=JwSXx1QG08O7a85uprTG-g&s=19
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,231

    Cost of living? Crickets

    How about the cost of dead crickets?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    edited April 2022
    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,975
    What would President Le Pen mean for Britain? I mean if we have to now start treating it as a real possibility.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Cost of living? Crickets

    How about the cost of dead crickets?
    Oh fuck off, grasshopper
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,152
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's striking how much support Boris Johnson is getting for his comments on trans issues from people who are not his natural supporters. This one is typical:

    @annettepacey
    Oh god oh no someone I loathe just made a really good point. Still could never bring myself to vote for the bastard but this is what happens when Labour turn their backs on women and leave an open goal #labourlosingwomen


    https://twitter.com/annettepacey/status/1511691419647455237

    No, I've been told by PB experts that saying women have cocks won't hurt Labour.
    Boris's comments are quite good and thoughtful.

    The Trans Activist usual approach is to ram through their preferred measures before anyone gets any time to reflect properly upon the issue, and this is more considered.

    Here is what BJ said. This is I think the full video of 1:39. Sky also seem to be putting out a truncated one at 1:04 length.

    https://news.sky.com/story/pm-says-biological-males-should-not-compete-in-female-sport-and-venues-should-have-women-only-spaces-12583536

    I haven't got my head around the latest kerfuffle.

    Does, for example, the (Aiui) long-held Trans-Activist demand to be allowed to medicate without supervision children who are deemed by their parents to be trans count as Conversion Therapy? If so, the various organisations are demanding that this be banned.

    ISTM very important that required time is taken.

    This is an even longer version than the one I linked.

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1511669445877551104
  • Farooq said:

    Omnium said:

    Applicant said:

    Tories behind in the polls? Johnson and Sunak sinking?

    I know, play the trans culture war card!

    And, once again, the Left having started a culture war complains when the Right responds.
    The public are going "WTF" and abandoning the Tories.

    How about addressing real issues like cost of living. Anything yet?
    You're right CHB. CoL issues are really important, but it's just not something politicians should get involved in. State control isn't good.

    If you actually want a state controlled economy then that's fine. You'll hate the consequences though.
    Corbyn style ?
    Or, indeed, Brexit style. Government deciding how many immigrants in which sectors businesses need. Nothing like a good quota. Are we onto Five Year Plans yet?
    I agree with you and we should move nearer to a Norway style deal
    You're trolling now aren't you.

    You were one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Brexit deal we have now, I remember specifically you being told Norway would be better and you dismissed it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,691

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.
    The BBC can either produce a lot of TV cheaply or less TV very expensively. You seem to favour the latter while the BBC (up to now) has tended to do the former....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,237
    Leon said:

    Dead Russian soldier allegedly found with “extracted gold crowns” on his person

    https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1511736510982332419?s=21&t=iI5Kps6SxtiMs3WONmCRWQ

    Ghastly but not outside the realms of what goes on on the battlefield. There's a whole riff in Mailer's The Naked and the Dead about a US platoon prising gold teeth out of dead Japanese mouths based on a fairly common practice.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,070

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise.
    Did Taboo do that well? It was shit. You could hardly hear what anyone was saying, which given what you could make out, was probably an advantage.

    The Bodyguard is a different kettle of fish.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,164

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    glw said:

    TV is going through a period of huge change. What does any enterprise need to weather and indeed thrive in a period of such change? They need a stable foundation, a secure financial footing, which allows them to innovate and evolve in response. Now is the worst time to start tinkering with those foundations.

    They don't have "a stable foundation, a secure financial footing, which allows them to innovate and evolve in response." They have a pittance to spend when compared to their new competitors. I've mentioned it before but Amazon are spending roughly as much on the first season of their Lord of the Rings series as the BBC spends on drama in an entire year. British broadcasters have never faced such well funded competition before, and unlike in the past those mostly US competitors can access the UK market directly.
    https://www.nme.com/news/tv/uk-viewers-watched-three-times-more-bbc-than-netflix-in-2021-3150727

    So, Netflix and other streamers have massively bigger budgets, but way more watch the BBC. Looks to me like the BBC is a model of efficiency we should be celebrating then!
    Except a) nobody actually fully knows for certain Netflix viewership as they never release it and b) there is an absolutely huge demographic split. Oldies continue to watch linear tv, but middle aged and younger people don't at anywhere near the same amount.

    Media is having the same revolution as the globalisation of every other industry over the past 20-30 years, and many seem to want to try and repeat the mistake of those industries holding onto this yes but we are the best mantra, no need to change.
    There is a common fallacy in political thinking. It goes like this... Something needs to change. This is something. So we should do it.

    The BBC and Channel 4 are well aware that the broader industry is changing and changing rapidly. The BBC and Channel 4 are changing.

    Nadine Dorries thinks that privatising Channel 4 is the change that is needed. Dorries didn't even know how Channel 4 was funded some months ago. Why should I believe that Dorries now knows better what change is needed than the people in Channel 4 and the wider industry, who largely don't think this is the change that is needed?

    I don't think Government automatically knows best. I think there are plenty of contexts where Government should step back and let enterprises get on with the job.
    My original comment was exactly this.....I linked to an article was saying yes aware of the elephant in the room, but there is never any suggestion of how to adapt. Its instant we can't change this way because yadda yadda yadda. Ok, and so how do you suggest changing, and there is tumbleweed.

    How are BBC or CH4 adapting? BBC Three coming back, genius. 4k / HDR still in "beta" for years and the system failed on iPlayer for Euro final. Sky / BT / Netflix have had 4k for years now.
    https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/reports/annualplan

    https://www.channel4.com/corporate/future4

    Privatising Channel 4 isn't going to turn it into Netflix. How is Nadine Dorries's change going to solve the disappearance of linear TV?
    Channel 4 one.....Waffle waffle buzz word waffle....no mention 4k, no mention HDR,

    "Using a more viewer-centric approach to inform activity and decisions across Channel 4".."Rolling out personalisation features on All 4, including smarter recommendations"

    F##k me, they are like 10 years behind the rest of the normal world is that if their "future goals" for 2025. Just more evidence their tech is just garbage.
    How is Nadine Dorries's change going to solve the disappearance of linear TV?
    AGAIN.....nobody is answering my question.....any suggestion of change is met we no we can't do that / that would be bad....so what are the proposals.

    You linked to their plans, and its a joke. Buzz word salad and the some vague realisation that Machine learning exists and that perhaps in 3 years time they might have a basic recommendation service, which Netflix, Spotify etc etc etc have had from their inception and which the likes of TikTok absolutely smash.
    This is politicalbetting.com, not broadcastingprofessionals.com, so forgive us all if there's more focus on the political aspects. The change that has been proposed by Dorries is to sell Channel 4, to take it out of public ownership, to dismantle Thatcher's legacy.

    Does Dorries's change solve the challenges you tell us about? No.

    That those very significant challenges still exist is an important point, but they are somewhat tangential.
    That is just trying to side step the issue. There is zero evidence the BBC or CH4 have an real idea how to adapt to this changed world.
    I posted a link earlier showing how way more people watch the BBC than Netflix. Channel 4 was tied with Netflix, IIRC, despite spending far less. So, the world has changed and the BBC and Channel 4 are doing more than OK.

    You say "changed world" above. You are probably going to reply talking about trajectory and future changes to come. You probably should've said "changING world".

    If you want to talk about the future, explain how a privatised Channel 4 or BBC would adapt better. ITV is privatised and is doing a terrible job of adapting!
    And we circle right back around to my initial point. Those who want to fight against this privatisation need to propose a coherent plan for the future, and the key problem is they never do. It is classic Sir Humphrey, we can't do that reply, look at what we did 30 years ago.

    So either the government will get its way or they will U-Turn, the CH4 supporters will celebrate initially and I bet they don't adapt.
    Donald Trump once suggested injecting bleach to cure COVID-19. Sometimes ideas suggest by politicians are stupid and it's fine to say they're wrong, without providing a detailed alternate solution to all other problems.
    Taz said:

    Alistair said:

    Why does Channel 4 need to make a profit? It doesn't cost us anything.

    You might want to rethink that logic.

    If it didn't, then how would it not cost us anything? Who would be paying for it?
    Unlike the BBC, Channel 4 receives no public funding. It is funded entirely by its own commercial activities.

    https://www.channel4.com/corporate/about-4/operating-responsibly/freedom-information/frequently-asked-questions
    Today, yes, but their entire business model is being destroyed. Anyone who knows anything understands that what is true today might not be the same in the future.

    Either they embrace the future, or they die. That their erstwhile "defenders" of the status quo want to defend it as being able to make money via commercials today isn't a really good endorsement for it adapting for the future.
    The problem is neither the Beeb or C4 see this or accept this. They just want to cling on to the past model irrespective of how the market is changing. But this is industry is notorious for it. Be it home taping, VHS video, Napster. Any technological change or innovation is resisted. Even the migration from black and white to colour TV was a problem.
    This is just nonsense. The BBC and C4 are very aware of how the industry is changing. Neither is proposing doing nothing. Both have embraced technological change and innovation. What they are opposing is a specific change in how they are funded. Given no-one in this thread can explain why these changes in funding model would solve any of the global challenges in broadcasting, I sympathise with their positions.

    There's a political ideology called conservatism that recognises the value of established institutions and suggests we should be wary of tinkering with the fundamentals. It often champions this country's success stories. It used to have a lot of MPs in Parliament. I wonder where they all went?
    You have to be careful here as it's easy to get things mixed up.

    Privatising C4 doesn't change it's funding model - it changes it's ownership.

    BBC is a bigger problem as it does need to change it's funding model but how you do that has been an issue for over 20 years and no one has come up with a solution...
    Ownership and funding are linked though as the funding model that C4 has been relying upon is dying - fast. And so either it evolves under ownership that is ready to adapt to that and generates alternative funding sources - or the owners will be liable for losses or winding it up when the funding dries up.

    Realistically the state isn't best placed to generate the alternative funding sources - and left to its own devices under its current ownership their plans for the future are embarrassing at best, so an alternative ownership is needed to get the funding in place for the future. The two are intrinsically linked.
    How can you say it's dying when they are making a profit right now, in the present, in the teeth of Netflix/Amazon. Ah the future, streaming, you say. But you could as easily say that people will get sick of paying a subscription for a streaming service only 3% of which they ever use.

    Both a subscription model and ad-funded are of course commercial models and there may well be room for both in the market so I'm not sure why you say "Commercial TV has failed". And as I noted above, there is probably a large number of people who would put up with adverts in order to get "free" tv.

    Be against government ownership of TV companies (I am) by all means but your strange arguments around "Commercial TV" and the streaming services does your case no good if you conflate as @eek notes, ownership and business models.
    By "commercial" TV I was quite clearly referring to, as I had already pointed out, TV funded by commercials as opposed to alternatives.

    The owners need to find another business model as C4's is dying. Yes its running a profit today, I don't deny that, but its not going to in five or ten years time if nothing changes.

    You're like somebody in 2005 saying that Blockbuster is making a profit from its video stores so it has no reason to consider changing.
    Basically you have just copied and pasted the Government defence rationale for privatising C4 as proposed yesterday.

    What is the point?
    In fact, people asked that question about starting a second TV channel in the 1950s.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    edited April 2022
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.
    The BBC can either produce a lot of TV cheaply or less TV very expensively. You seem to favour the latter while the BBC (up to now) has tended to do the former....
    They currently doing neither. They are spending money on an IP, then even if it does well, they don't leverage it. No other company would have taken 10 years to make 36 episodes of Peaky Blinders, 5 years between Bodyguard S1 and S2, etc etc etc.

    In the meantime not only are other people making higher quality shows, they are making them faster and more regularly.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,691
    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Channel 4 - my understanding of it is that no one wants to buy it and also invest money in programming. Also £1bn is a fantasy valuation. Anyone with £1bn to spend is buying 7-9 production houses that can make 5-6 seasons of something per year which they can sell to Netflix for £60-90m per season.

    The government is on a hiding to nothing with C4. They would have been better giving it away but on the provision of a minimum investment in UK production as part of the deal.

    Not necessarily so. ITV is quite keen apparently as is Sky due to the synergy /consolidation of the market angle. A bit harder to see the economics for an outside player.
    But that's not going to get it to £1bn and ITV will be faced with competition concerns. Sky may just want it for the slot on terrestrial. C4 owns very little of the content it shows, it's merely an aggregator of other people's content. The value is minimal.
    It's value is literally access to it's back catalogue (i.e. what's on All 4), it's prime TV slots on the EPGs and it's advertising sales team. None of that is worth anything close to £1bn.
  • Farooq said:

    Omnium said:

    Applicant said:

    Tories behind in the polls? Johnson and Sunak sinking?

    I know, play the trans culture war card!

    And, once again, the Left having started a culture war complains when the Right responds.
    The public are going "WTF" and abandoning the Tories.

    How about addressing real issues like cost of living. Anything yet?
    You're right CHB. CoL issues are really important, but it's just not something politicians should get involved in. State control isn't good.

    If you actually want a state controlled economy then that's fine. You'll hate the consequences though.
    Corbyn style ?
    Or, indeed, Brexit style. Government deciding how many immigrants in which sectors businesses need. Nothing like a good quota. Are we onto Five Year Plans yet?
    I agree with you and we should move nearer to a Norway style deal
    You're trolling now aren't you.

    You were one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Brexit deal we have now, I remember specifically you being told Norway would be better and you dismissed it.
    I do not need to justify myself to you

    I am not wanting to rejoin the EU but if you read my posts over the last few months I have consistently said we and the EU need a closer and more cooperative association and have mentioned Norway before

    I do not want to enter into a constant argument with you as it becomes tedious
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,738
    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's striking how much support Boris Johnson is getting for his comments on trans issues from people who are not his natural supporters. This one is typical:

    @annettepacey
    Oh god oh no someone I loathe just made a really good point. Still could never bring myself to vote for the bastard but this is what happens when Labour turn their backs on women and leave an open goal #labourlosingwomen


    https://twitter.com/annettepacey/status/1511691419647455237

    No, I've been told by PB experts that saying women have cocks won't hurt Labour.
    Boris's comments are quite good and thoughtful.

    The Trans Activist usual approach is to ram through their preferred measures before anyone gets any time to reflect properly upon the issue, and this is more considered.

    Here is what BJ said. This is I think the full video of 1:39. Sky also seem to be putting out a truncated one at 1:04 length.

    https://news.sky.com/story/pm-says-biological-males-should-not-compete-in-female-sport-and-venues-should-have-women-only-spaces-12583536

    I haven't got my head around the latest kerfuffle.

    Does, for example, the (Aiui) long-held Trans-Activist demand to be allowed to medicate without supervision children who are deemed by their parents to be trans count as Conversion Therapy? If so, the various organisations are demanding that this be banned.

    ISTM very important that required time is taken.

    Well that's right. It's dead easy to tell if you are gay or straight, just check your apps and see whether you have grindr or tinder. it's much less easy to tell if you are an x trapped in a y's body and if so what you want to do about it, but if conversion therapy is made illegal then nobody is allowed to recognise that. The instant someone says I'm trans it becomes illegal to say You might just be a fat tory in a fix had you thought of that hush ma big mouf
  • eekeek Posts: 28,691

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.
    The BBC can either produce a lot of TV cheaply or less TV very expensively. You seem to favour the latter while the BBC (up to now) has tended to do the former....
    They currently doing neither. They are spending money on an IP, then even if it does well, they don't leverage it. No other company would have taken 10 years to make 36 episodes of Peaky Blinders, 5 years between Bodyguard S1 and S2, etc etc etc.
    To do that requires signing everyone involved in every TV show up with First Call contracts. And that costs shed loads of money which means less TV is produced on the off chance that the show is a massive hit.

    And for every massive hit the BBC has multiple shows that don't for one reason or another hit their target.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,231
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cost of living? Crickets

    How about the cost of dead crickets?
    Oh fuck off, grasshopper
    I see your taste in friends remains consistent. How odd that it should end this way for us, after so many stimulating encounters. I almost regret it. Where shall I find a new adversary so close to my own level?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited April 2022

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,164
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Dead Russian soldier allegedly found with “extracted gold crowns” on his person

    https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1511736510982332419?s=21&t=iI5Kps6SxtiMs3WONmCRWQ

    Even the most ghastly regime can't be held responsible for the acts of individuals under its command. I suspect there are Russian soldiers out there trying not to blindly kill. I certainly don't see Putin as responsible for their acts.
    That argument would be more convincing had there not been similar atrocities committed by the Russians in Syria and Chechnya and Salisbury and indeed by the Putin regime against its own people.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,035

    I have binned Apple TV (two shows I watch); I have binned Disney+ (zero shows); I subscribe to Netflix and Prime which just about justify their fees (but it’s close).

    Beeb is still decent value for money.

    The best value for money by a country mile are Sky Sports and BT Sport. I watch tons of live sport and they have a lot. I find it baffling that purported sports fans don’t subscribe to them. How do they watch any sport?

    I knit, which is an activity well-suited to combining with watching TV (I did a lot of sock-knitting during Euro I can't believe it's not 2020), but I don't know where you get the time to watch so much TV.

    We're sort of half using our Netflix subscription, and there are the occasional thing that we watch on BBC, but we're partway through a number of series and I can't imagine adding a sports subscription and another streaming service.

    In terms of sport, I listen to TMS for Test cricket and the County Championship (starting again tomorrow!) is on free streams available via the ECB or the County websites. What other sport is there?
    My point is exactly that: I don’t watch that much TV, I cannot believe how anyone could watch so much as some people on PB seem to claim, therefore the Netflix and Prime subscriptions are barely worth it.

    TMS is great, and I listen to it, but as a cricket fan presumably you actually want to watch Test match cricket too?

    I find the idea that purported sports fans refuse to pay a round of drinks a month to watch professional sport absolutely baffling.
    Sure, I can see the attraction of watching Test cricket too, but I don't have limitless resources, and have you seen the price of quality knitting yarn?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,070

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    edited April 2022

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    Its not just the 6 episode format, it is the ridiculous gap between seasons.

    Can you imagine if you had the most shit hot new widget and then said yeah well we only made a few, come back in 5 years.....while acme industries down the street is also making shit hot new widgets, but they ensure they continually have new ones.

    The massive bucks are available if can get a show syndicated worldwide. In order to do that normally need to have a significant back catalogue. They did that with Top Gear and made a load of money. The problem is drama is now gone that way too.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's striking how much support Boris Johnson is getting for his comments on trans issues from people who are not his natural supporters. This one is typical:

    @annettepacey
    Oh god oh no someone I loathe just made a really good point. Still could never bring myself to vote for the bastard but this is what happens when Labour turn their backs on women and leave an open goal #labourlosingwomen


    https://twitter.com/annettepacey/status/1511691419647455237

    No, I've been told by PB experts that saying women have cocks won't hurt Labour.
    Boris's comments are quite good and thoughtful.

    The Trans Activist usual approach is to ram through their preferred measures before anyone gets any time to reflect properly upon the issue, and this is more considered.

    Here is what BJ said. This is I think the full video of 1:39. Sky also seem to be putting out a truncated one at 1:04 length.

    https://news.sky.com/story/pm-says-biological-males-should-not-compete-in-female-sport-and-venues-should-have-women-only-spaces-12583536

    I haven't got my head around the latest kerfuffle.

    Does, for example, the (Aiui) long-held Trans-Activist demand to be allowed to medicate without supervision children who are deemed by their parents to be trans count as Conversion Therapy? If so, the various organisations are demanding that this be banned.

    ISTM very important that required time is taken.

    This is an even longer version than the one I linked.

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1511669445877551104
    As far as I can ascertain, the Tories are simply aligning with the Labour position. Rachel Reeves said pretty much the same last week.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,346

    Nobody on here has made the case for Channel 4’s privatisation.
    Nor has the government.
    The $1bn is neither here nor there.

    Meanwhile, I see the BBC bashers are out in force. Based on my sample of New York parents at the school gate, the BBC has a very good reputation, albeit niche. Probably on the same level as HBO (who are also struggling against the giants, but continue to make fantastic content).

    I’m not a BBC basher although you may consider me one. I just think it’s funding model is unfair.

    I’m glad the BBC has a good reputation in the US. I believe BBC select is available there for an, optional, subscription of 5 dollars.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,733

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    I’ll be honest, Jeremy Brett for a classic feel, and set in the original era (hat tip to Tom Baker as the Doctor as Sherlock Holmes in the Talons of Weng Chiang, present concerns about horrific racist portrayal and yellow face excepted), Sherlock is fun, but could never be a series machine in the American way, whereas Elementary has room to breath and allows you to get to love the cast. All have their place.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,738

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    We do not often agree, but on this I fully agree.

    However, I can recommend at least the first two seasons of 'Elementary'. A thoroughly modern Sherlock, without (mostly) the horse dung.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,569

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    It also follows from the tendency to have shows created by a single writer or small team- there's a limit to how much creative juice you can squeeze per year. Probably not the most efficient way to create hours of television, but more distinctive to watch.

    British TV doesn't need to be like American TV to succeed. Indeed, trying to play that game, rather than trying to play its own game well, is setting itself up for failure.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,283

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    In a different part of the forest, 18 year old students were fined £10K for making the same "mistake" as Party Marty.

    No job in the FO for them.
  • Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    Sue Gray's report will be the defining moment for not only Boris but many senior civil servants
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    No vacancies at the DfE?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    Its not just the 6 episode format, it is the ridiculous gap between seasons.

    Can you imagine if you had the most shit hot new widget and then said yeah well we only made a few, come back in 5 years.....while acme industries down the street is also making shit hot new widgets, but they ensure they continually have new ones.

    The massive bucks are available if can get a show syndicated worldwide. In order to do that normally need to have a significant back catalogue. They did that with Top Gear and made a load of money. The problem is drama is now gone that way too.
    Most series are better off with sticking to just one season. There are exceptions, but in general the greats of TV just decline after season one.
  • Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    In a different part of the forest, 18 year old students were fined £10K for making the same "mistake" as Party Marty.

    No job in the FO for them.
    Do we know if he has been fined yet
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,346

    glw said:

    Nobody on here has made the case for Channel 4’s privatisation.
    Nor has the government.
    The $1bn is neither here nor there.

    Meanwhile, I see the BBC bashers are out in force. Based on my sample of New York parents at the school gate, the BBC has a very good reputation, albeit niche. Probably on the same level as HBO (who are also struggling against the giants, but continue to make fantastic content).

    It's post like this that demonstrate why the BBC and Channel 4 are basically doomed. Merely observing reality (broadcast TV has already lost the young) is "BBC bashing". No amount of good will in New York will save them, as those New Yorkers contribute essentially nothing to the BBC and Channel 4 coffers.

    I like the BBC a lot, mainly radio and the website, but you have to have your head in the sand to think it has a future as it is.
    I’m very interested in ideas for how the BBC could change, but the dominant tone on here is by people who dismiss the notion of public service or state owned broadcasting altogether.

    So I just ignore them as (to my mind) bad faith debaters.

    Anyway, my post was intended as a rebuttal to the idea that the BBC has no brand, nothing more.
    My core argument is always the licence fee is in the modern world a) totally unenforceable and b) totally outdated idea I have to pay a licence to watch telly, even if I don't watch the 4 BBC channels i.e. I only want to watch Sky Sports.

    The debate is then how do you replace the licence fee. There are a range of options.
    My view is fund the public service remit from general taxation but let that be open to anyone who puts In the best case, not bids the most cash. The local TV stations and local radio network could do it.

    How the BBC funds itself is down to,it as long as it is not a compulsory license.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    Sue Gray's report will be the defining moment for not only Boris but many senior civil servants
    I trust that in the case of many of them it will be realised that paying their salaries is, in their own words, not an appropriate use of public money.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,070

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    Its not just the 6 episode format, it is the ridiculous gap between seasons.

    Can you imagine if you had the most shit hot new widget and then said yeah well we only made a few, come back in 5 years.....while acme industries down the street is also making shit hot new widgets, but they ensure they continually have new ones.

    The massive bucks are available if can get a show syndicated worldwide. In order to do that normally need to have a significant back catalogue. They did that with Top Gear and made a load of money. The problem is drama is now gone that way too.
    Another promising series that disappeared as soon as it came was the recent Dracula. That seemed to be being set up for a series, but never came to anything for some reason.
  • ydoethur said:

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    Sue Gray's report will be the defining moment for not only Boris but many senior civil servants
    I trust that in the case of many of them it will be realised that paying their salaries is, in their own words, not an appropriate use of public money.
    Hasn't one of them already gone to the private sector?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    Its not just the 6 episode format, it is the ridiculous gap between seasons.

    Can you imagine if you had the most shit hot new widget and then said yeah well we only made a few, come back in 5 years.....while acme industries down the street is also making shit hot new widgets, but they ensure they continually have new ones.

    The massive bucks are available if can get a show syndicated worldwide. In order to do that normally need to have a significant back catalogue. They did that with Top Gear and made a load of money. The problem is drama is now gone that way too.
    Most series are better off with sticking to just one season. There are exceptions, but in general the greats of TV just decline after season one.
    Dad's Army didn't really hit its stride until about season 4. Similarly all the Star Trek series start to get really good from about season 3.5 onwards. (Well, apart from Enterprise.)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,070
    ydoethur said:

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    No vacancies at the DfE?
    Many, but no job vacancies.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    It also follows from the tendency to have shows created by a single writer or small team- there's a limit to how much creative juice you can squeeze per year. Probably not the most efficient way to create hours of television, but more distinctive to watch.

    British TV doesn't need to be like American TV to succeed. Indeed, trying to play that game, rather than trying to play its own game well, is setting itself up for failure.
    Most novels can and should be perfectly well adapted within six or seven episodes. Classic example: Big Little Lies. An absolute masterpiece. There was no book left for Season Two, and as such it served only to sully its magnificent predecessor.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995

    ydoethur said:

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    Sue Gray's report will be the defining moment for not only Boris but many senior civil servants
    I trust that in the case of many of them it will be realised that paying their salaries is, in their own words, not an appropriate use of public money.
    Hasn't one of them already gone to the private sector?
    Wetherspoons?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    I disagree. Sometimes a mini series is all you need - Chernobyl is a great example, one of the best tv shows I've seen in years. And even a 10-13 episode show might have plenty of padding (though is my preferred length).

    But that's a question of good or bad writing. If you could guarantee the BBC traditional 6 episode or whatever format resulted in a higher amount of quality per episode, you might have an argument, but that's not the case - plenty of 6 episode shows are still very bad, and they are short and often sporadic on top of that.

    Sure, plenty of long format shows are no good either, but many are good, and there are benefits to being able to develop arcs over a multi year period, or just develop the characters more thoroughly over that number of episodes and time. Going on too long is an unfortunate potential risk, to be sure, but personally I'd say was worth it for the greater number and depth of content earlier on.

    I think the cheerleading for short format stuff is a crutch, frankly. There's no reason longer stuff cannot be good, and plenty of short stuff which is bad, so it's not a feature at all.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,283
    "the fuckers even... took my aftershave"

    Comment by one resident about RU scum in Trostyanets.


    Guardian.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,346
    edited April 2022

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    I’ll be honest, Jeremy Brett for a classic feel, and set in the original era (hat tip to Tom Baker as the Doctor as Sherlock Holmes in the Talons of Weng Chiang, present concerns about horrific racist portrayal and yellow face excepted), Sherlock is fun, but could never be a series machine in the American way, whereas Elementary has room to breath and allows you to get to love the cast. All have their place.
    Talons of Weng Chiang is essentially a mix of Baker playing a Sherlock Holmes character and John Bennett playing Fu Manchu.

    You also have Louise Jameson as Eliza Doolittle.

    I’d dispute the show is horrifically racist it has racial stereotypes based on the Fu Manchu stories, that period was full of rip offs/tributes to classic novels and sci fi. It’s an homage. Horrifically is a dramatic overstatement. It’s a subject fandom still debates to this day.

    We may as well ban the Celestial Toymaker too.

    Tom also played Holmes in Hound of the Baskervilles, pretty well, his first job on leaving Dr Who. Caroline John was also in it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,321

    "the fuckers even... took my aftershave"

    Comment by one resident about RU scum in Trostyanets.


    Guardian.

    Probably to drink it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995

    ydoethur said:

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    No vacancies at the DfE?
    Many, but no job vacancies.
    Brilliant :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    It also follows from the tendency to have shows created by a single writer or small team- there's a limit to how much creative juice you can squeeze per year. Probably not the most efficient way to create hours of television, but more distinctive to watch.

    British TV doesn't need to be like American TV to succeed. Indeed, trying to play that game, rather than trying to play its own game well, is setting itself up for failure.
    That makes sense, but I find it just seems complacent - the championing of short format stuff as an inherently superior form is an example of that. If our TV committed to that, and delivered good quality in high numbers rather than a bare handful of notable hits, that'd be great, offering something distinct to american network procedurals or netflix style binge worthy fluff.

    But it doesn't offer that, and by pretending supeiority inherent in short stuff for example, they have no incentive to actually make each episode in a short run better.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    I disagree. Sometimes a mini series is all you need - Chernobyl is a great example, one of the best tv shows I've seen in years. And even a 10-13 episode show might have plenty of padding (though is my preferred length).

    But that's a question of good or bad writing. If you could guarantee the BBC traditional 6 episode or whatever format resulted in a higher amount of quality per episode, you might have an argument, but that's not the case - plenty of 6 episode shows are still very bad, and they are short and often sporadic on top of that.

    Sure, plenty of long format shows are no good either, but many are good, and there are benefits to being able to develop arcs over a multi year period, or just develop the characters more thoroughly over that number of episodes and time. Going on too long is an unfortunate potential risk, to be sure, but personally I'd say was worth it for the greater number and depth of content earlier on.

    I think the cheerleading for short format stuff is a crutch, frankly. There's no reason longer stuff cannot be good, and plenty of short stuff which is bad, so it's not a feature at all.
    The idea that six episodes is short format is preposterous. That’s six hours of TV drama.

    The Godfather - rightly considered an absolute epic - was told in nine hours or so.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,346

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    We do not often agree, but on this I fully agree.

    However, I can recommend at least the first two seasons of 'Elementary'. A thoroughly modern Sherlock, without (mostly) the horse dung.
    Jeremy Brett as Holmes was excellent but the latter stories and the 3 long episodes that comes after Baskervilles and Sign of Four were awful. Partly due to Brett’s poor health, Holmes was replace by his brother in one story.

    Holmes ended on a whimper unlike Poirot.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,870
    edited April 2022
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    Sue Gray's report will be the defining moment for not only Boris but many senior civil servants
    I trust that in the case of many of them it will be realised that paying their salaries is, in their own words, not an appropriate use of public money.
    Hasn't one of them already gone to the private sector?
    Wetherspoons?
    Premier League

    https://news.sky.com/story/helen-macnamara-governments-former-ethics-chief-apologises-for-error-of-judgement-after-partygate-fine-12582317
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,579
    Interesting piece on the resurrection of Le Pen by Anne-Elisabeth Moutet:

    https://unherd.com/2022/04/the-resurrection-of-marine-le-pen/

    But most of all, Marine Le Pen has been helped by Emmanuel Macron. Discontented voters chose him five years ago to spite the other, older, hackneyed candidates — a populist reflex for a man who used populist means for decidedly non-populist policies. His victory was built on the cold-eyed destruction of traditional political parties Left and Right, and he never stopped to consider the effect on public life. He cherry-picked the most compatible and the most docile personalities from both the Socialists and the Républicains, gave them seats in the House and Cabinet, stringently barred them from having any kind of independent views, and declared himself as being neither Left nor Right.

    Like the spoiled child he has been for all 44 years of his charmed life, political and personal, Macron has never had to face consequences for his decisions; for him, turning the French Republic into an atomised wasteland of individuals matters not one bit. (He will be remembered as the Houellebecq President.) Under his presidency, France was shaken by popular revolts such as the Gilets Jaunes who felt no one was representing them in a country of weak unions and even weaker parties.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    Its not just the 6 episode format, it is the ridiculous gap between seasons.

    Can you imagine if you had the most shit hot new widget and then said yeah well we only made a few, come back in 5 years.....while acme industries down the street is also making shit hot new widgets, but they ensure they continually have new ones.

    The massive bucks are available if can get a show syndicated worldwide. In order to do that normally need to have a significant back catalogue. They did that with Top Gear and made a load of money. The problem is drama is now gone that way too.
    American TV sites used to talk about 100 episodes for syndication, then dropping to around 80-88, which was basically 4 seasons worth, hence why if you got a renewal for a third season you were almost guaranteed at least one more since it would be worth more by that point.

    The model is not the same anymore, many more shows with fewer per season, and the streaming sites and global audiences, but a reasonable number of series to capture attention and build an audience is still a good thing most of the time. Even 30-40 episodes of something works (Yes Minister had around that many for instance)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    Sue Gray's report will be the defining moment for not only Boris but many senior civil servants
    I trust that in the case of many of them it will be realised that paying their salaries is, in their own words, not an appropriate use of public money.
    Hasn't one of them already gone to the private sector?
    Wetherspoons?
    Premier League

    https://news.sky.com/story/helen-macnamara-governments-former-ethics-chief-apologises-for-error-of-judgement-after-partygate-fine-12582317
    She would have been better off starting again in the bass-ment.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,935
    edited April 2022

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    To prove my point....in production.

    SLOW HORSES S02
    https://www.productionweekly.com/production-weekly-issue-1290-thursday-march-17-2022-199-listings-45-pages/

    None of this, Gary (Oldman) and Kristin (Scott Thomas), could you possibly give us a date when you fancy making some more of these, I know you might be busy, could you possibly fit us in perhaps 2024....

    That takes money and the BBC is limited by the licence fee. There's not much else to it.
    My point is BBC still trying to do things the old way, 6 episode season, a mate of a mate who is a big name will do you a favour and star in it for cheap, then you get stupid situations where you have Tom Hardy make a season of Taboo, that does pretty well, and then it is 5 years before he can fit you in again for season 2.

    They have to decide, either not to go down that route in the first place and not use the star talent or modernise. When the big players decide to go with these projects they are going to ensure they get their 5 seasons in 5 years.

    The BBC are setting light to money starting an IP and then leaving it years.
    Most series are drastically overlong and are flogged to within an inch of their lives. The Beeb’s six episode format - to use an absolutely horrible PB cliche - is a feature not a bug.
    I disagree. Sometimes a mini series is all you need - Chernobyl is a great example, one of the best tv shows I've seen in years. And even a 10-13 episode show might have plenty of padding (though is my preferred length).

    But that's a question of good or bad writing. If you could guarantee the BBC traditional 6 episode or whatever format resulted in a higher amount of quality per episode, you might have an argument, but that's not the case - plenty of 6 episode shows are still very bad, and they are short and often sporadic on top of that.

    Sure, plenty of long format shows are no good either, but many are good, and there are benefits to being able to develop arcs over a multi year period, or just develop the characters more thoroughly over that number of episodes and time. Going on too long is an unfortunate potential risk, to be sure, but personally I'd say was worth it for the greater number and depth of content earlier on.

    I think the cheerleading for short format stuff is a crutch, frankly. There's no reason longer stuff cannot be good, and plenty of short stuff which is bad, so it's not a feature at all.
    The idea that six episodes is short format is preposterous. That’s six hours of TV drama.

    The Godfather - rightly considered an absolute epic - was told in nine hours or so.
    Countless great bits but gun to head my favourite:

    "Never tell anyone outside the family what you're thinking"

    Brando to Caan
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    @ChassNews
    The mood in France, according to veteran pollster @BriceTeinturier : "More people say the country and their personal situation would improve if Marine Le Pen is president than if it it is Macron"


    https://twitter.com/ChassNews/status/1511750591218913290

    ...while Macron increases his lead...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_French_presidential_election?msclkid=a1fb2b8eb5d311ecb5b0a38dfa167739
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,738
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    We do not often agree, but on this I fully agree.

    However, I can recommend at least the first two seasons of 'Elementary'. A thoroughly modern Sherlock, without (mostly) the horse dung.
    Jeremy Brett as Holmes was excellent but the latter stories and the 3 long episodes that comes after Baskervilles and Sign of Four were awful. Partly due to Brett’s poor health, Holmes was replace by his brother in one story.

    Holmes ended on a whimper unlike Poirot.
    Agree, sadly. But because of Brett's health, I kind-of excuse that.

    I have *never* got on with Poirot, either in book or TV form. I just don't get on with his character.

    As an aside, the little 'un liked watching the BBC 'Father Brown' aged five. I bought the books on Kindle, and they are massively different. Only the main character remains in any way similar.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,321
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    Sue Gray's report will be the defining moment for not only Boris but many senior civil servants
    I trust that in the case of many of them it will be realised that paying their salaries is, in their own words, not an appropriate use of public money.
    Hasn't one of them already gone to the private sector?
    Wetherspoons?
    Premier League

    https://news.sky.com/story/helen-macnamara-governments-former-ethics-chief-apologises-for-error-of-judgement-after-partygate-fine-12582317
    She would have been better off starting again in the bass-ment.
    She could start by clearing out the Tennants.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,346

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    We do not often agree, but on this I fully agree.

    However, I can recommend at least the first two seasons of 'Elementary'. A thoroughly modern Sherlock, without (mostly) the horse dung.
    Jeremy Brett as Holmes was excellent but the latter stories and the 3 long episodes that comes after Baskervilles and Sign of Four were awful. Partly due to Brett’s poor health, Holmes was replace by his brother in one story.

    Holmes ended on a whimper unlike Poirot.
    Agree, sadly. But because of Brett's health, I kind-of excuse that.

    I have *never* got on with Poirot, either in book or TV form. I just don't get on with his character.

    As an aside, the little 'un liked watching the BBC 'Father Brown' aged five. I bought the books on Kindle, and they are massively different. Only the main character remains in any way similar.
    I like the BBC Father Brown, the Mark Williams one. They are now up,to 100 episodes.

    I started watching the first season again recently. It’s pleasant. You can see why it is daytime tv drama.

    The Kenneth More ones are, apparently, more faithful to the books.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,331
    edited April 2022

    @ChassNews
    The mood in France, according to veteran pollster @BriceTeinturier : "More people say the country and their personal situation would improve if Marine Le Pen is president than if it it is Macron"


    https://twitter.com/ChassNews/status/1511750591218913290

    ...while Macron increases his lead...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_French_presidential_election?msclkid=a1fb2b8eb5d311ecb5b0a38dfa167739
    To 5% in the new Ifop runoff poll.

    A clear win but still too close for comfort for Macron's campaign

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1511716996697755659?s=20&t=RR59_c1d268SWH4PJ3UzwQ
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,738
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    We do not often agree, but on this I fully agree.

    However, I can recommend at least the first two seasons of 'Elementary'. A thoroughly modern Sherlock, without (mostly) the horse dung.
    Jeremy Brett as Holmes was excellent but the latter stories and the 3 long episodes that comes after Baskervilles and Sign of Four were awful. Partly due to Brett’s poor health, Holmes was replace by his brother in one story.

    Holmes ended on a whimper unlike Poirot.
    Agree, sadly. But because of Brett's health, I kind-of excuse that.

    I have *never* got on with Poirot, either in book or TV form. I just don't get on with his character.

    As an aside, the little 'un liked watching the BBC 'Father Brown' aged five. I bought the books on Kindle, and they are massively different. Only the main character remains in any way similar.
    I like the BBC Father Brown, the Mark Williams one. They are now up,to 100 episodes.

    I started watching the first season again recently. It’s pleasant. You can see why it is daytime tv drama.

    The Kenneth More ones are, apparently, more faithful to the books.
    Yes, the BBC stories are good - although the last series was poor. But they've virtually nothing in common with the books aside from names.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,995
    edited April 2022
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Always good to see properly punished.....

    Among the post-Partygate clear-out of Boris’s top team in No. 10 was his PPS Martin Reynolds, whose infamous ‘BYOB’ email invite – leaked to ITV – swiftly earned him the SW1 nickname of “Party Marty”. Instead of being fired he was foundy a comfy Foreign Office role…

    https://order-order.com/2022/04/06/no-10-levels-down-nicknames/

    Sue Gray's report will be the defining moment for not only Boris but many senior civil servants
    I trust that in the case of many of them it will be realised that paying their salaries is, in their own words, not an appropriate use of public money.
    Hasn't one of them already gone to the private sector?
    Wetherspoons?
    Premier League

    https://news.sky.com/story/helen-macnamara-governments-former-ethics-chief-apologises-for-error-of-judgement-after-partygate-fine-12582317
    She would have been better off starting again in the bass-ment.
    She could start by clearing out the Tennants.
    I doubt if she'd have the Courage.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,070
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    We do not often agree, but on this I fully agree.

    However, I can recommend at least the first two seasons of 'Elementary'. A thoroughly modern Sherlock, without (mostly) the horse dung.
    Jeremy Brett as Holmes was excellent but the latter stories and the 3 long episodes that comes after Baskervilles and Sign of Four were awful. Partly due to Brett’s poor health, Holmes was replace by his brother in one story.

    Holmes ended on a whimper unlike Poirot.
    I can't entirely agree. Even in the later episodes like the dying detective Brett has amazing scenes.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,346

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    We do not often agree, but on this I fully agree.

    However, I can recommend at least the first two seasons of 'Elementary'. A thoroughly modern Sherlock, without (mostly) the horse dung.
    Jeremy Brett as Holmes was excellent but the latter stories and the 3 long episodes that comes after Baskervilles and Sign of Four were awful. Partly due to Brett’s poor health, Holmes was replace by his brother in one story.

    Holmes ended on a whimper unlike Poirot.
    Agree, sadly. But because of Brett's health, I kind-of excuse that.

    I have *never* got on with Poirot, either in book or TV form. I just don't get on with his character.

    As an aside, the little 'un liked watching the BBC 'Father Brown' aged five. I bought the books on Kindle, and they are massively different. Only the main character remains in any way similar.
    I like the BBC Father Brown, the Mark Williams one. They are now up,to 100 episodes.

    I started watching the first season again recently. It’s pleasant. You can see why it is daytime tv drama.

    The Kenneth More ones are, apparently, more faithful to the books.
    Yes, the BBC stories are good - although the last series was poor. But they've virtually nothing in common with the books aside from names.
    I only saw the first six seasons. I guess after 100 episodes there is only so much you can do with the format and the storylines.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    Harwell VMIC: New vaccine centre sold to company

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-61011189.amp
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,661

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    We do not often agree, but on this I fully agree.

    However, I can recommend at least the first two seasons of 'Elementary'. A thoroughly modern Sherlock, without (mostly) the horse dung.
    I bought the first five series on dvd but lost interest so never watched the later ones, or rewatched the earlier ones. Johnny Lee Miller was said to be on $100,000 an episode. That is why the American-based networks can keep stars locked in, and churning out series after series. I can't see how privatising Channel 4 will allow them to compete at this level.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,237

    Interesting piece on the resurrection of Le Pen by Anne-Elisabeth Moutet:

    https://unherd.com/2022/04/the-resurrection-of-marine-le-pen/

    But most of all, Marine Le Pen has been helped by Emmanuel Macron. Discontented voters chose him five years ago to spite the other, older, hackneyed candidates — a populist reflex for a man who used populist means for decidedly non-populist policies. His victory was built on the cold-eyed destruction of traditional political parties Left and Right, and he never stopped to consider the effect on public life. He cherry-picked the most compatible and the most docile personalities from both the Socialists and the Républicains, gave them seats in the House and Cabinet, stringently barred them from having any kind of independent views, and declared himself as being neither Left nor Right.

    Like the spoiled child he has been for all 44 years of his charmed life, political and personal, Macron has never had to face consequences for his decisions; for him, turning the French Republic into an atomised wasteland of individuals matters not one bit. (He will be remembered as the Houellebecq President.) Under his presidency, France was shaken by popular revolts such as the Gilets Jaunes who felt no one was representing them in a country of weak unions and even weaker parties.

    'Like the spoiled child he has been for all 44 years of his charmed life, political and personal, Macron has never had to face consequences for his decisions'

    Uh huh.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,346

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    I've recently been watching 'Elementary' on Prime; CBS's take on Sherlock Holmes, with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock and Lucy Liu as Watson.

    When I compare it with the BBC's awful 'Sherlock', it shows where the BBC often goes wrong. Elementary takes the Sherlock Holmes idea and thoroughly modernises it. They made 154 episodes over nine years, allowing meaningful plot and character development.

    The BBC's Sherlock is all about the *star*. The plotlines are ludicrous, and they made just 13 episodes in seven years, allowing little plot or character development.

    Also: Jonny Lee Miller is a much better actor than Benedict Cumberbatch. ;)

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, in fact you’re right - but Sherlock was a big hit around the world.

    Elementary, not so much?
    Perhaps not, but ran for 7 years and it is better, not just that theres more of it. The first season in particular - did a far better job showing how a Holnes/Watson dynamic could realistically develop when one is such an arse.
    That's a really good point. From memory, in the books, Watson is very much his own man. A successful and respected doctor in his own right, who at times shares a flat with the protagonist, and at others is married (ooer missus!). In Sherlock, he is a broken man, and it is unclear why he hangs around Sherlock. I mean, why, given Cumberbatch's Holmes has no redeeming features?

    In Elementary, the characterisations make it much clearer: initially watson is paid to put up with him, and does so through a feeling of guilt for her own mistake. Later, Holmes tries to make up for his character defects, and becomes a much more interesting character (note: I am only on season 2).
    Nothing beats Jeremy Brett's portrayal for me. I've never got into Sherlock though I can see it's merits.
    We do not often agree, but on this I fully agree.

    However, I can recommend at least the first two seasons of 'Elementary'. A thoroughly modern Sherlock, without (mostly) the horse dung.
    Jeremy Brett as Holmes was excellent but the latter stories and the 3 long episodes that comes after Baskervilles and Sign of Four were awful. Partly due to Brett’s poor health, Holmes was replace by his brother in one story.

    Holmes ended on a whimper unlike Poirot.
    I can't entirely agree. Even in the later episodes like the dying detective Brett has amazing scenes.
    Yes, the stories do have some good moments but for me it feels like it has run out of steam. The stories just lack the energy and interest of the first stories in the run.

    Have you seen any of the Douglas Wilmer or Peter Cushing ones.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878
    Excellent NYT article on how the French Right has used “wokisme” (an entirely new word for them) and social media et al to SUCCESSFULLY wage a culture war and force l’Overton window their way

    They set up think tanks and everything. They are destroying the vile woke progressive left, even in academe

    The British right must learn from this


    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1511715859089309699?s=21&t=HCgZG_qqM9FMoATPqN40jA
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's striking how much support Boris Johnson is getting for his comments on trans issues from people who are not his natural supporters. This one is typical:

    @annettepacey
    Oh god oh no someone I loathe just made a really good point. Still could never bring myself to vote for the bastard but this is what happens when Labour turn their backs on women and leave an open goal #labourlosingwomen


    https://twitter.com/annettepacey/status/1511691419647455237

    No, I've been told by PB experts that saying women have cocks won't hurt Labour.
    Boris's comments are quite good and thoughtful.

    The Trans Activist usual approach is to ram through their preferred measures before anyone gets any time to reflect properly upon the issue, and this is more considered.

    Here is what BJ said. This is I think the full video of 1:39. Sky also seem to be putting out a truncated one at 1:04 length.

    https://news.sky.com/story/pm-says-biological-males-should-not-compete-in-female-sport-and-venues-should-have-women-only-spaces-12583536

    I haven't got my head around the latest kerfuffle.

    Does, for example, the (Aiui) long-held Trans-Activist demand to be allowed to medicate without supervision children who are deemed by their parents to be trans count as Conversion Therapy? If so, the various organisations are demanding that this be banned.

    ISTM very important that required time is taken.

    This is an even longer version than the one I linked.

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1511669445877551104
    I just saw the Guardian News version, and the YT comments are an endless procession of people who clearly dislike Johnson in general, but are in agreement on this issue. It's actually hard to find anyone who disagrees with him. Labour are mincemeat unless they ditch Stonewall completely on this.
This discussion has been closed.