The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
One thing is for certain, expectations have been raised. You used to go to the movies for the things like amazing VFX, these days people expect TV shows to have nearly the same quality. If they include jank, they get panned. And I don't mean just massive alien monster attacks human, I mean the subtle stuff like getting the streets looking correct for the time period.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
He didn't make a joke about a couple (Rebel Wilson did recently) he made a joke about her illness.
Use someone's health as a punchline you deserve what's coming to you. Not to be cancelled though.
Hi BR
My level of interest in Hollywood, Oscars, and the like is next door to zero but I just want to make one very small point.
I've had alopecia since I was twenty. I've never thought of it as an 'illness'. It's never stopped me from doing anything I want to, apart perhaps from looking in the mirror to admire myself.
It was overtaken by natural male-pattern baldness when I was in my thirties so now the only visible sign of it is the mottled appearance of my naked scalp. I have to be a bit careful with sunburn but the idea that this affliction should warrant any kind of sympathy is ridiculous.
Be proud of your old bald head, that's what I say!
Thanks for sharing that, but while I want to tread carefully here might the issue not be considered different between men and women? As you hint at, male baldness is not unusual - for females though their hair is much, much more a part of who they are than it is for men.
I think a man standing up for his wife and reacting when his wife is upset to ensure it doesn't happen again is rather chivalrous not "a bad example".
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
A big problem with modern tv is often the original writers / director etc, they do a season, then they ask for more money, have another project lined up (or the network decides to cut them anyway) and they replace them with the cheaper B Team.
Sometimes its not even a season, they do a handful of the episodes, roughly draft the other ones and let somebody else fill in the blanks.
All 5 seasons of the Wire pretty much every single episode was written by the same very small group of people.
Except - what was going to happen will have been obvious from his face (and the fact of his being there in the first place). And the host could hardly run away, or fight back.
Still, I am sure Leon thinks it was staged. By Chinese aliens, probably.
I don’t know why films quality has been in decline. Perhaps, as someone mentioned upthread, the decline of DVD sales.
Films now have massive, massive budgets and MUST succeed (hence the screaming popularity of the Marvel films, which are guaranteed box office), or they are low budget indies.
And the low budget indies are perhaps overly introverted, for some reason?
In the late 60s, American cinema was in a funk. Films had got completely overblown; Hollywood was convinced you either had to make a grand song and dance musical or a biblical epic.
Then along came Easy Rider, and all those “indie” films, which heralded a new golden age. And they somehow seemed relevant and spoke to a new generation.
I’m not really convinced that indie films are doing their job? Mass generalisation of course.
Because by the time David Lean died there weren't any decent films left to make? Same with Shostakovich and music; Larkin and poems; Anthony Powell and the English novel; Comper and architecture; Prokofiev and ballet; Tippett and opera. There is a grumpy old man fest to be had here. Having daughters I had to sit through the horrors of the Harry Potter films
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
Wait, you mean Phoebe Waller-Bridge playing an idealised version of Phoebe Waller-Bridge is unrelatable?
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
@Leon you’re thinking of “The Wheel of Time” I think. IIRC I watched the first episode & it was so dire I gave up on the rest.
The rise of streaming has led to a huge demand for “good enough” TV drama: Netflix et al have detailed metrics & they know what gets bums on seats so they go out and get it made. They’ve got the money to spend on production & apparently the quality of the script just doesn’t matter all that much. Or at least not so far anyway.
Too much mediocre telly, not enough stuff that you’d stay in to watch were it on a timed broadcast. We’ve dropped most streaming services now & will probably drop the last hold out (or maybe just rotate it around to pick up anything worth watching) fairly soon.
So what are we learning on here today? Violence against a man who gave some verbal is okay; if you don't do violence, you're a 'door mat'.
But all trans people have to be despised and hated because *a few* do bad things?
If we really wanted to stop violence of all sorts - and yes, against women - we would talk much more about the former, and not excuse it because you're an alpha-male wannabe idiot.
Nah mate, you're the guy who launches an inquiry after a school kid commits suicide after being bullied and says "lessons must be learned" then repeats the exercise as needed, learning precisely zero lessons in the process.
No, I really am not. In fact, I have mentioned the horrible levels of violence in this country on several occasions. If you know more than a few dozen people, you will know someone who has suffered domestic abuse in the last year, Often suffering in silence; invisibly.
Your comment demeans you.
But suffering in silence is what your proposed solution always seems to be, just take it on the chin and hope for a better world. Bullies need to be confronted, whether that's at school or someone using a privileged position to insult others, the confrontation is necessary, and yes, that may mean violence. I was bullied at school for being a "paki" and while you might have simply suffered in silence, I beat the shit out of one of them who did it and guess what? The bullying stopped, I got a week's worth of detention (including two Saturdays) but it was worth it. I don't think my dad has ever been more proud than he was when I he had to come and pick me up early because I'd been in a fight with the racist bully.
IME the person resorting to violence is more often the bully.
I'm sorry to hear about your experience, but perhaps, just perhaps, you tackled it the wrong way.
In what way did I handle it incorrectly? The bullying stopped almost immediately and that racist kid actually stopped being a racist to the other Asian kids as well. All it took was his head getting kicked in a couple of times.
As I said, you're the guy who won't ever learn any lessons from those kids committing suicide after being relentlessly bullied. A lot of the time the bullies do need a beat down, whether that's from the person being being bullied or someone else. I guarantee you that Chris Rock won't be making any jokes about bald women again.
No, I am really not like that. And if you knew anything about my history, or any grace, you'd retract that.
But I don't expect you will.
So what should kids being bullied at school do? Please, I'd like to know your thoughts on it (really, I'm not being a dick, I do want to know).
Report it. The bullied kids should talk to their parents, then the parents should talk to the school. If the school's anywhere near good, they should deal with it. Particularly as bullies are often kids with problems, who may well have been the target of bullies previously. They may need help themselves. Whatever, the school should know about what's going on.
If the school's bad, I'm unsure how the bullied child going around hitting others is going to solve anything except create another potential bully.
Having said that, a big problem is when bullying occurs outside school, and the school turns a blind eye.
I managed to get through school without a) particularly bullying anyone, or b) hitting anyone.
Despite being, as one boy put it, a 'crip'.
At Middle School there were two prominent bullies. They mostly left me alone, but one died in a stolen car a few years later (sadly, he wiped out an elderly couple). The other's life has gone down the pan. They made their life choices. I made mine. I'm happy.
(Note: I am not saying that physical violence cannot be used in self-defence: if you're threatened physically, you can protect yourself. But hitting someone because they give you verbal makes it your problem, not yours, IMO.)
I don't disagree with your general take - think it's sound - but I do disagree with making a big 'per se' binary distinction between words and actions.
The "sticks and stones" mantra has never rang true to me. Words can wound very badly. It can be worse to be on the wrong side of intense verbal torment and humiliation than of a slap or a punch.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
Wait, you mean Phoebe Waller-Bridge playing an idealised version of Phoebe Waller-Bridge is unrelatable?
Loved Fleabag. But no one could accuse it of being relatable drama, surely?
I don’t know why films quality has been in decline. Perhaps, as someone mentioned upthread, the decline of DVD sales.
Films now have massive, massive budgets and MUST succeed (hence the screaming popularity of the Marvel films, which are guaranteed box office), or they are low budget indies.
And the low budget indies are perhaps overly introverted, for some reason?
In the late 60s, American cinema was in a funk. Films had got completely overblown; Hollywood was convinced you either had to make a grand song and dance musical or a biblical epic.
Then along came Easy Rider, and all those “indie” films, which heralded a new golden age. And they somehow seemed relevant and spoke to a new generation.
I’m not really convinced that indie films are doing their job? Mass generalisation of course.
Because by the time David Lean died there weren't any decent films left to make? Same with Shostakovich and music; Larkin and poems; Anthony Powell and the English novel; Comper and architecture; Prokofiev and ballet; Tippett and opera. There is a grumpy old man fest to be had here. Having daughters I had to sit through the horrors of the Harry Potter films
Be thankful you didn't try to read the books. With the film you can at least have a nap in the dark.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
@Leon you’re thinking of “The Wheel of Time” I think. IIRC I watched the first episode & it was so dire I gave up on the rest.
The rise of streaming has led to a huge demand for “good enough” TV drama: Netflix et al have detailed metrics & they know what gets bums on seats so they go out and get it made. They’ve got the money to spend on production & apparently the quality of the script just doesn’t matter all that much. Or at least not so far anyway.
Too much mediocre telly, not enough stuff that you’d stay in to watch were it on a timed broadcast. We’ve dropped most streaming services now & will probably drop the last hold out (or maybe just rotate it around to pick up anything worth watching) fairly soon.
The Wheel of Time is my all-time favourite book series so I was nervous about how it would come out on TV. The first episode was rather meh but it got quite good. I think it helped then when I watched it there were 4 episodes out already that I could binge-watch together and episode 4 in particular was truly excellent - as were a few of the later episodes.
If you like the books, maybe give the show another go and if you don't like it by the end of episode 4 then fair enough.
My main criticism of the series would be that they cut too much from the book, it could have been done with being 10 episodes in the season instead of 8, but that's a book-lover's criticism.
I don’t know why films quality has been in decline. Perhaps, as someone mentioned upthread, the decline of DVD sales.
Films now have massive, massive budgets and MUST succeed (hence the screaming popularity of the Marvel films, which are guaranteed box office), or they are low budget indies.
You answered your own question, I reckon. Films MUST succeed. Success means mahoosive profit. Small profit is failure. Breaking even is abject failure. Outright loss is catastrophic failure.
So what do you do as a film boss type? Go to the well over and over again for the same few things - a massive superhero franchise, Xth sequel of a big well-known franchise, something something Tom Cruise something, a reboot of something everyone loved in the 90's. Rinse and repeat.
The result is ever more bland films - truly popcorn stuff, nothing so incredibly awful to make your eyes bleed but nothing of any real originality or merit, bar the very odd exception. Which flops because it didn't make a mahoosive profit, regardless of what it actually did make.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
@Leon you’re thinking of “The Wheel of Time” I think. IIRC I watched the first episode & it was so dire I gave up on the rest.
The rise of streaming has led to a huge demand for “good enough” TV drama: Netflix et al have detailed metrics & they know what gets bums on seats so they go out and get it made. They’ve got the money to spend on production & apparently the quality of the script just doesn’t matter all that much. Or at least not so far anyway.
Too much mediocre telly, not enough stuff that you’d stay in to watch were it on a timed broadcast. We’ve dropped most streaming services now & will probably drop the last hold out (or maybe just rotate it around to pick up anything worth watching) fairly soon.
Netflix knew that they wouldn't be the only streaming platform for very long and that the likes of Disney own so many of the most popular IPs, so they have been in a massive rush to just create content, any content, to make sure they have a library for when (as has happened) the likes of Disney pull the content they own the IP to.
So they have thrown masses of money at it, loads of shit, but hoping that a) they get enough winners and b) the shitter stuff still keeps enough bums on seats. They couldn't rely on making just the stellar stuff like House of Cards or The Crown, backed up with enough of other people's content like Friends, which they know people will go to if nothing else on there.
Say what you like about Gavin Williamson, he never thumped anyone at the annual "Fireplace Salesman of the Year" awards.
He wasn’t put between a rock and fireplace
The Rock - further evidence that baldies can make it to the top.....
A mistake I have only just learned I have been making all these years: Chris Rock <> Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson. The latter is bald, the former was slapped by Will Smith.
It’s always an interesting wake up call on pb realising how disconnected a lot of people are from modern culture. Comments like not being able to recognise Will Smith in the street. Really?
Even The Rock’s gross box office is over $5bn, the 20th highest grossing actor of all time. And that’s his second successful career (as per Will Smith).
A hilariously self-torpedoing post, because The Rock is Dwayne Johnson, while Chris Rock is Chris Rock.
Laughing at people for medical conditions is supposed to be well beyond the pale nowadays so I wonder if this incident will mean that now everybody hates Chris?
No I got the reference, I just wondered if we are or not
If you want a serious answer: No.
I have no desire to see Chris Rock get cancelled, nor do I think its bad that he got what was quite frankly a well-deserved slap. So he might think twice before using someone's wife's medical condition as a punchline again, but he shouldn't be cancelled.
Quite frankly I think Will Smith both slapping Chris Rock, then apologising for doing so, and that being the end of the matter is probably the right sequence of events to have happened.
Him then winning the oscar and doing his speech is imo what pushed this story into ledge territory.
Interestingly no clear right/left, leave/remain, mods/rocker binary split on what the correct take is. People are all over the place.
Probably just a touch of 'Will in the wrong' on the left and 'in the right' on the right.
My centrist dad hot take: wrong, if understandable; ultimately not that big a deal.
You're not a centrist dad, c'mon! The dad bit, yes, but not the other.
Anyway here's our (woke left) line to take. It's quite circumspect as you can see. 4 strands -
"Assault is wrong.
Alopecia is a painful experience that many Black women go through and should not be joked about.
The concept of being ‘the protector’ can be a form of toxic masculinity.
Black women are rarely protected and deserve to be protected."
(from Owen's twitter)
Possible alternative take: to paraphrase Homer Simpson, maybe there is no lesson: it was just a bunch of stuff that happened. We don't need to take sides on absolutely everything. A scuffle at an industry awards do.
Yep, to not have a take is a perfectly ok take. In fact it's pretty much mine on this one. Smith wrongish but no big deal from a moral or philosophical or political perspective.
And yet again it could be age - sorry to keep repeating that - but I find myself increasingly weary of non-stop strong combative definitive opinions from people about every little thing that goes down.
People with strong combative definitive opinions about everything are WANKERS.
I'm not sure that your last sentence is true, though it may be. (He says, just to prove he's not a wanker).
Al, great joke, didn't need the explainer in brackets.
So what are we learning on here today? Violence against a man who gave some verbal is okay; if you don't do violence, you're a 'door mat'.
But all trans people have to be despised and hated because *a few* do bad things?
If we really wanted to stop violence of all sorts - and yes, against women - we would talk much more about the former, and not excuse it because you're an alpha-male wannabe idiot.
Nah mate, you're the guy who launches an inquiry after a school kid commits suicide after being bullied and says "lessons must be learned" then repeats the exercise as needed, learning precisely zero lessons in the process.
No, I really am not. In fact, I have mentioned the horrible levels of violence in this country on several occasions. If you know more than a few dozen people, you will know someone who has suffered domestic abuse in the last year, Often suffering in silence; invisibly.
Your comment demeans you.
But suffering in silence is what your proposed solution always seems to be, just take it on the chin and hope for a better world. Bullies need to be confronted, whether that's at school or someone using a privileged position to insult others, the confrontation is necessary, and yes, that may mean violence. I was bullied at school for being a "paki" and while you might have simply suffered in silence, I beat the shit out of one of them who did it and guess what? The bullying stopped, I got a week's worth of detention (including two Saturdays) but it was worth it. I don't think my dad has ever been more proud than he was when I he had to come and pick me up early because I'd been in a fight with the racist bully.
IME the person resorting to violence is more often the bully.
I'm sorry to hear about your experience, but perhaps, just perhaps, you tackled it the wrong way.
In what way did I handle it incorrectly? The bullying stopped almost immediately and that racist kid actually stopped being a racist to the other Asian kids as well. All it took was his head getting kicked in a couple of times.
As I said, you're the guy who won't ever learn any lessons from those kids committing suicide after being relentlessly bullied. A lot of the time the bullies do need a beat down, whether that's from the person being being bullied or someone else. I guarantee you that Chris Rock won't be making any jokes about bald women again.
No, I am really not like that. And if you knew anything about my history, or any grace, you'd retract that.
But I don't expect you will.
So what should kids being bullied at school do? Please, I'd like to know your thoughts on it (really, I'm not being a dick, I do want to know).
Report it. The bullied kids should talk to their parents, then the parents should talk to the school. If the school's anywhere near good, they should deal with it. Particularly as bullies are often kids with problems, who may well have been the target of bullies previously. They may need help themselves. Whatever, the school should know about what's going on.
If the school's bad, I'm unsure how the bullied child going around hitting others is going to solve anything except create another potential bully.
Having said that, a big problem is when bullying occurs outside school, and the school turns a blind eye.
I managed to get through school without a) particularly bullying anyone, or b) hitting anyone.
Despite being, as one boy put it, a 'crip'.
At Middle School there were two prominent bullies. They mostly left me alone, but one died in a stolen car a few years later (sadly, he wiped out an elderly couple). The other's life has gone down the pan. They made their life choices. I made mine. I'm happy.
(Note: I am not saying that physical violence cannot be used in self-defence: if you're threatened physically, you can protect yourself. But hitting someone because they give you verbal makes it your problem, not yours, IMO.)
You seem to be living in some kind of dreamland where the authorities give a flying fuck about bullying. To coin a phrase, it's the law of the jungle.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
I don’t know why films quality has been in decline. Perhaps, as someone mentioned upthread, the decline of DVD sales.
Films now have massive, massive budgets and MUST succeed (hence the screaming popularity of the Marvel films, which are guaranteed box office), or they are low budget indies.
And the low budget indies are perhaps overly introverted, for some reason?
In the late 60s, American cinema was in a funk. Films had got completely overblown; Hollywood was convinced you either had to make a grand song and dance musical or a biblical epic.
Then along came Easy Rider, and all those “indie” films, which heralded a new golden age. And they somehow seemed relevant and spoke to a new generation.
I’m not really convinced that indie films are doing their job? Mass generalisation of course.
Because by the time David Lean died there weren't any decent films left to make? Same with Shostakovich and music; Larkin and poems; Anthony Powell and the English novel; Comper and architecture; Prokofiev and ballet; Tippett and opera. There is a grumpy old man fest to be had here. Having daughters I had to sit through the horrors of the Harry Potter films
David Lean went on to make Ryan’s Daughter and Passage To India which although not his greatest were both pretty good.
So what are we learning on here today? Violence against a man who gave some verbal is okay; if you don't do violence, you're a 'door mat'.
But all trans people have to be despised and hated because *a few* do bad things?
If we really wanted to stop violence of all sorts - and yes, against women - we would talk much more about the former, and not excuse it because you're an alpha-male wannabe idiot.
Nah mate, you're the guy who launches an inquiry after a school kid commits suicide after being bullied and says "lessons must be learned" then repeats the exercise as needed, learning precisely zero lessons in the process.
No, I really am not. In fact, I have mentioned the horrible levels of violence in this country on several occasions. If you know more than a few dozen people, you will know someone who has suffered domestic abuse in the last year, Often suffering in silence; invisibly.
Your comment demeans you.
But suffering in silence is what your proposed solution always seems to be, just take it on the chin and hope for a better world. Bullies need to be confronted, whether that's at school or someone using a privileged position to insult others, the confrontation is necessary, and yes, that may mean violence. I was bullied at school for being a "paki" and while you might have simply suffered in silence, I beat the shit out of one of them who did it and guess what? The bullying stopped, I got a week's worth of detention (including two Saturdays) but it was worth it. I don't think my dad has ever been more proud than he was when I he had to come and pick me up early because I'd been in a fight with the racist bully.
IME the person resorting to violence is more often the bully.
I'm sorry to hear about your experience, but perhaps, just perhaps, you tackled it the wrong way.
In what way did I handle it incorrectly? The bullying stopped almost immediately and that racist kid actually stopped being a racist to the other Asian kids as well. All it took was his head getting kicked in a couple of times.
As I said, you're the guy who won't ever learn any lessons from those kids committing suicide after being relentlessly bullied. A lot of the time the bullies do need a beat down, whether that's from the person being being bullied or someone else. I guarantee you that Chris Rock won't be making any jokes about bald women again.
No, I am really not like that. And if you knew anything about my history, or any grace, you'd retract that.
But I don't expect you will.
So what should kids being bullied at school do? Please, I'd like to know your thoughts on it (really, I'm not being a dick, I do want to know).
Report it. The bullied kids should talk to their parents, then the parents should talk to the school. If the school's anywhere near good, they should deal with it. Particularly as bullies are often kids with problems, who may well have been the target of bullies previously. They may need help themselves. Whatever, the school should know about what's going on.
If the school's bad, I'm unsure how the bullied child going around hitting others is going to solve anything except create another potential bully.
Having said that, a big problem is when bullying occurs outside school, and the school turns a blind eye.
I managed to get through school without a) particularly bullying anyone, or b) hitting anyone.
Despite being, as one boy put it, a 'crip'.
At Middle School there were two prominent bullies. They mostly left me alone, but one died in a stolen car a few years later (sadly, he wiped out an elderly couple). The other's life has gone down the pan. They made their life choices. I made mine. I'm happy.
(Note: I am not saying that physical violence cannot be used in self-defence: if you're threatened physically, you can protect yourself. But hitting someone because they give you verbal makes it your problem, not yours, IMO.)
You seem to be living in some kind of dreamland where the authorities give a flying fuck about bullying. To coin a phrase, it's the law of the jungle.
Do you manage people? Do you work in a team? Is this the way you would suggest everyone you work with to behave?
I've given you a fuller answer below - it is not a 'dreamland'.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
@Leon you’re thinking of “The Wheel of Time” I think. IIRC I watched the first episode & it was so dire I gave up on the rest.
The rise of streaming has led to a huge demand for “good enough” TV drama: Netflix et al have detailed metrics & they know what gets bums on seats so they go out and get it made. They’ve got the money to spend on production & apparently the quality of the script just doesn’t matter all that much. Or at least not so far anyway.
Too much mediocre telly, not enough stuff that you’d stay in to watch were it on a timed broadcast. We’ve dropped most streaming services now & will probably drop the last hold out (or maybe just rotate it around to pick up anything worth watching) fairly soon.
Yes, there’s a plague of “good enough” telly. See the Ipcress Factor, which I moaned about upthread.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
I think most schools are generally pretty good about bullying these days. None of our kids have ever been bullied but I am fairly confident their schools would deal with it effectively if it happened. It may be different in the independent sector since there seems to be a rich vein of sadism, cruelty and the will to dominate in the world-view of the English Upper classes (Hitler spoke very approvingly of the great English public schools).
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
Absolutely. Mrs Brown's Boys D'Movie was criminally ignored for honours.
Don't mock, Mrs Brown's Boys D'Movie had nine times the box office takings of Coda, which won the Oscar
I've not seen d'movie but I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Mrs Brown's Boys. I mean, it's not Brecht obviously but the few times I've watched it it did at least make me laugh, which is more than I can say for some much-feted "comedy" programmes like the absurdly over-rated Fleabag.
I'm not a big fan of Mrs. Brown's Boys. I wanted to find it funny, but failed utterly. Yet I find both the programme, and its creator, likeable in a way I can't pin down. I'm pleased it exists. It's a very uncomplicated comedy. It's not trying to make me take any particular opinion, or advance an agenda; it's not trading solely on currency of 'awkward'; it's largely just jokes. Not, unfortunately, jokes which make me laugh, but the approach is rare and refreshing. The sitcom-in-front-of-a-live-studio-audience seemed archaic very suddenly. Up until the Royle Family it was the norm; within 18 months it seemed like it was from another era. And yet I can't help feeling that sometimes modern sitcoms wish they could have the live audience back; it must be very hard for a comedian to land jokes without the confirmation of laughter. Indeed, even as a viewer, while I certainly agree that the comedy without the audience is a better, purer and more authentic product - well, it needs a very, very good product to work; and I sometimes can't help wondering whether some of the last two decades' less successful offerings might actually have been funnier with the aid of studio laughter.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
I liked The Last Kingdom, Better Call Saul, Homeland, and Shadow and Bone, among more recent series.
A lot of people recommended Ozark, but I found the main character too much of a shit to wish to follow it.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
My high functioning autistic eldest son had the living s*** kicked out of him at Primary School. It only takes one nasty bullying b*****d for the situation to escalate. Bullying was tolerated, I guess it was seen as character building for the victims.
I moved him to another school. The culture of the new school, an RC school, really did not accept bullying. Anyone who tried it was seriously punished by the head.
Either way, I would never have suggested my son smacked the perpetrators.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Last few years: Succession, Superstore, Top Boy, This is Us, Fargo, Black Mirror.
Some people like The Marvellous Mrs Maisel, Mrs America.
Then some great limited series: Small Axe, When They See Us, Chernobyl, The Night Of.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
I liked The Last Kingdom, Better Call Saul, Homeland, and Shadow and Bone, among more recent series.
A lot of people recommended Ozark, but I found the main character too much of a shit to wish to follow it.
Ozark good example of just going downhill every season. Now its frankly just ridiculous.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
I would advise anyone of any age to learn some form of combat skill. It does wonders for confidence, bearing, and a whole other bunch of stuff. Perhaps most importantly it can, if taught correctly, instill a non-victim mentality which in itself can head off problems before they become problems.
I do boxing as you know. Soon as I've shaken this wretched Covid off I'll be back at the bag.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
They were overlapping: Sorpanos with the Wire, then the Wire with Mad Men. And I'd argue Succession is up there with any of those three.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Are you one of those people who doesn't think psychological abuse is real? The constant drum beat of insults and mental torture can be worse than physical abuse.
I learned the hard way that having self defence skills was really important growing up, I really hope you give your lad the opportunity to learn them before sending him off to secondary school.
"Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons. One of victims was Russian entrepreneur Roman Abramovich."
I was expecting chemical weapons to be used in this conflict; this was not the vector I expected. Oddly, as it has been used several times before by one of the players...
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Are you one of those people who doesn't think psychological abuse is real? The constant drum beat of insults and mental torture can be worse than physical abuse.
I learned the hard way that having self defence skills was really important growing up, I really hope you give your lad the opportunity to learn them before sending him off to secondary school.
He certainly seems to think that "verbal" is not "abuse" so can't warrant self-defence?
Verbal abuse is abuse. Either you believe in self-defence against abuse, or you don't, I do.
Can people please stop catching Covid? That's the second interview that we're having to postpone because they have a dose of the dreaded pox. Its proving hard enough to get the required people in the same place at the same time and they keep bloody dropping with the plague.
"Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons. One of victims was Russian entrepreneur Roman Abramovich."
I was expecting chemical weapons to be used in this conflict; this was not the vector I expected. Oddly, as it has been used several times before by one of the players...
Bloody hell poisoning Abramovich would be quite some thing. He apparently is acting as the go between, having travelled from Turkey to Ukraine and Moscow in the past couple of weeks.
"Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons. One of victims was Russian entrepreneur Roman Abramovich."
I was expecting chemical weapons to be used in this conflict; this was not the vector I expected. Oddly, as it has been used several times before by one of the players...
Wow. So what’s the implication here? The Russians tried to poison the Ukrainian delegates, and were sloppy enough to overspill onto “neutrals”?
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Bosch on Amazon was also excellent. Euphoria is disturbing, but excellent. (And it's also a very long way from woke.)
I think this is all a classic example of survivorship bias. You remember all the crap that's out today that will never be renewed. And you forget all the crap that was around in 2000s that wasn't.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
I watched some Fleabag and wasn’t overly impressed. It was one of those shows the BBC kept congratulating itself and it’s little watched BBC Three about.
The first scene was Fleabag breaking the fourth wall while taking it up the bum. Most edgy. The show is all upper middle class angst.
Michaela Cole’s Chewing gum is supposed to be better.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
I watched some Fleabag and wasn’t overly impressed. It was one of those shows the BBC kept congratulating itself and it’s little watched BBC Three about.
The first scene was Fleabag breaking the fourth wall while taking it up the bum. Most edgy. The show is all upper middle class angst.
Michaela Cole’s Chewing gum is supposed to be better.
The first season of Fleabag was almost unwatchably awful. The second was not bad, because it actually had characters you half way cared about.
How many of you start watching a Netflix series and after 2 to 3 episodes abandon it thinking this is turgid rubbish
I don't watch much Netflix (or Amazon) stuff, but for anyone who likes a police procedural I can heartily recommend Balthazar (Acorn TV on Amazon Prime but the month's free trial should be enough to watch the whole thing). French with subtitles which isn't necessarily normally my thing but I've really been enjoying it.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Are you one of those people who doesn't think psychological abuse is real? The constant drum beat of insults and mental torture can be worse than physical abuse.
I learned the hard way that having self defence skills was really important growing up, I really hope you give your lad the opportunity to learn them before sending him off to secondary school.
Okay, I will repeat myself: a few years ago a trans friend of mine committed suicide. IMV there were a number of reasons for that, and bullying - at school and later in life - were causal factors, if not the main cause.
So no, I am not one of those people who think psychological abuse is not real. But I am far from convinced that hitting someone is the correct response.
But at school I saw plenty of bullies smacking younger kids and saying; "Miss! Miss! He called me a name!"
If my lad wants to take self defence classes, I'll encourage him. If he doesn't, I won't. Simples.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
I watched some Fleabag and wasn’t overly impressed. It was one of those shows the BBC kept congratulating itself and it’s little watched BBC Three about.
The first scene was Fleabag breaking the fourth wall while taking it up the bum. Most edgy. The show is all upper middle class angst.
Michaela Cole’s Chewing gum is supposed to be better.
Fleabag just reminded me of all the people I hated at Cambridge.
looks like the number of COVID cases is now falling, the number reported in the last 7 days is 20,000 less than the number reported in the perverse 7 days, that's a fall of 3.3%
Reported date is normally a day or 2 latter than specimen date, and the lag between infection and testing positive of 3-4 days, we are probably now a bit after peek, obviously I don't know how fast it will fall or what the equilibrium rate will be, but this is still good news
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Bosch on Amazon was also excellent. Euphoria is disturbing, but excellent. (And it's also a very long way from woke.)
I think this is all a classic example of survivorship bias. You remember all the crap that's out today that will never be renewed. And you forget all the crap that was around in 2000s that wasn't.
I quite liked Bosch (something I watched while on Zwift), but I don't think many were talking about it then, or now, let alone in a few years.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
"Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons. One of victims was Russian entrepreneur Roman Abramovich."
I was expecting chemical weapons to be used in this conflict; this was not the vector I expected. Oddly, as it has been used several times before by one of the players...
Bloody hell poisoning Abramovich would be quite some thing. He apparently is acting as the go between, having travelled from Turkey to Ukraine and Moscow in the past couple of weeks.
Abramovic may quickly be becoming persona non grata at the Kremlin, he's married to a Ukrainian and his daughter has prominently condemned Putin for the invasion. If I was him I'd be very worried about polonium in my tea.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Bosch on Amazon was also excellent. Euphoria is disturbing, but excellent. (And it's also a very long way from woke.)
I think this is all a classic example of survivorship bias. You remember all the crap that's out today that will never be renewed. And you forget all the crap that was around in 2000s that wasn't.
I quite liked Bosch (something I watched while on Zwift), but I don't think anybody is talking about it now, let alone in a few years.
The first series was OK, the character was reasonably compelling, but the second season quickly seemed to run out of ideas
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
I liked The Last Kingdom, Better Call Saul, Homeland, and Shadow and Bone, among more recent series.
A lot of people recommended Ozark, but I found the main character too much of a shit to wish to follow it.
Yes those are also good examples of recent/current good sometimes great mini-series.
"Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons. One of victims was Russian entrepreneur Roman Abramovich."
I was expecting chemical weapons to be used in this conflict; this was not the vector I expected. Oddly, as it has been used several times before by one of the players...
Wow. So what’s the implication here? The Russians tried to poison the Ukrainian delegates, and were sloppy enough to overspill onto “neutrals”?
Or they didn't care; they just want to muddy the waters. Remember, neither the Navalny, Salisbury or Litvinenko attacks were not exactly professionally done. But I fear there are lots of other attacks that we have not commonly heard about, even in this country.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Last few years: Succession, Superstore, Top Boy, This is Us, Fargo, Black Mirror.
Some people like The Marvellous Mrs Maisel, Mrs America.
Then some great limited series: Small Axe, When They See Us, Chernobyl, The Night Of.
My daughter is obsessed with the Marvelous and Chernobyl was outstanding.
"Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons. One of victims was Russian entrepreneur Roman Abramovich."
I was expecting chemical weapons to be used in this conflict; this was not the vector I expected. Oddly, as it has been used several times before by one of the players...
Bloody hell poisoning Abramovich would be quite some thing. He apparently is acting as the go between, having travelled from Turkey to Ukraine and Moscow in the past couple of weeks.
Abramovic may quickly be becoming persona non grata at the Kremlin, he's married to a Ukrainian and his daughter has prominently condemned Putin for the invasion. If I was him I'd be very worried about polonium in my tea.
Be interesting to see if he makes any more unnecessary personal visits to Moscow in the near future.
looks like the number of COVID cases is now falling, the number reported in the last 7 days is 20,000 less than the number reported in the perverse 7 days, that's a fall of 3.3%
Reported date is normally a day or 2 latter than specimen date, and the lag between infection and testing positive of 3-4 days, we are probably now a bit after peek, obviously I don't know how fast it will fall or what the equilibrium rate will be, but this is still good news
Yes, cautiously encouraging - though I do wonder what proportion of people are actually reporting positive tests any more (or even testing).
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
I would advise anyone of any age to learn some form of combat skill. It does wonders for confidence, bearing, and a whole other bunch of stuff. Perhaps most importantly it can, if taught correctly, instill a non-victim mentality which in itself can head off problems before they become problems.
I do boxing as you know. Soon as I've shaken this wretched Covid off I'll be back at the bag.
Good for you. It all helps. More helpful would be if you jump into the ring with someone. Doesn't have to be crazy but having someone try to hit you is (a) very useful experience.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Bosch on Amazon was also excellent. Euphoria is disturbing, but excellent. (And it's also a very long way from woke.)
I think this is all a classic example of survivorship bias. You remember all the crap that's out today that will never be renewed. And you forget all the crap that was around in 2000s that wasn't.
I quite liked Bosch (something I watched while on Zwift), but I don't think many were talking about it then, or now, let alone in a few years.
It's very popular in the US. I thought it was one of the best police procedurals in decades. High production value, complex plots, three dimensional characters.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
I watched some Fleabag and wasn’t overly impressed. It was one of those shows the BBC kept congratulating itself and it’s little watched BBC Three about.
The first scene was Fleabag breaking the fourth wall while taking it up the bum. Most edgy. The show is all upper middle class angst.
Michaela Cole’s Chewing gum is supposed to be better.
The first season of Fleabag was almost unwatchably awful. The second was not bad, because it actually had characters you half way cared about.
I never got beyond the first two episodes of season 1. Terrible.
I don't need my TV to be groundbreaking, or even the stuff aficionados will talking about for years to come. Just something well-written with believable characters and sharp dialogue does me just fine. Alas, not as common as it should be.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
Good job that PB is a virtual forum then, as there'd be dead bodies everywhere given the extent of verbal abuse on here.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Bosch on Amazon was also excellent. Euphoria is disturbing, but excellent. (And it's also a very long way from woke.)
I think this is all a classic example of survivorship bias. You remember all the crap that's out today that will never be renewed. And you forget all the crap that was around in 2000s that wasn't.
I quite liked Bosch (something I watched while on Zwift), but I don't think anybody is talking about it now, let alone in a few years.
The first series was OK, the character was reasonably compelling, but the second season quickly seemed to run out of ideas
Oh, I don't know. The whole Maddie becoming Bosch gradually over several seasons is something I enjoyed watching.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
Wait, you mean Phoebe Waller-Bridge playing an idealised version of Phoebe Waller-Bridge is unrelatable?
Loved Fleabag. But no one could accuse it of being relatable drama, surely?
I did not find Fleabag that funny yet loved it and devoured both series in one sitting.
Which roasts the old 'comedy has to make you laugh' chestnut.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Last few years: Succession, Superstore, Top Boy, This is Us, Fargo, Black Mirror.
Some people like The Marvellous Mrs Maisel, Mrs America.
Then some great limited series: Small Axe, When They See Us, Chernobyl, The Night Of.
My daughter is obsessed with the Marvelous and Chernobyl was outstanding.
Everything about Chernobyl was superb. The constant low level hum/beat/sound which permeated nearly every scene reminded me of the same in Dunkirk, which rightly won an Oscar for sound. Oh damn and we're back to the Oscars..
Wait, James Delingpole is being a twat? I am shocked.
I consider Delingpole one of the most respectable contributors to the Spectator. He's just amplifying the wry and scientifically illiterate view of the world so loved by our right leaning commentarati.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
- Cases - UP. But R is returning to 1 - already below in a number of arease. Overall, it is only fractionally above for the UK as a whole. - Hospitals - incomplete data for today, but probably UP in the various categories. - Deaths - UP
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
Wow. Are you sure you want to go down that road.
Clearly the answer is yes.
Verbal abuse is a form of abuse.
Abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves.
Which bit do you disagree with?
Mind boggling.
Yet you're not prepared to say which bit you disagree with, funny that.
Is it that you don't think abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves?
Or that you don't consider verbal abuse to really be abuse?
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
I watched some Fleabag and wasn’t overly impressed. It was one of those shows the BBC kept congratulating itself and it’s little watched BBC Three about.
The first scene was Fleabag breaking the fourth wall while taking it up the bum. Most edgy. The show is all upper middle class angst.
Michaela Cole’s Chewing gum is supposed to be better.
Fleabag just reminded me of all the people I hated at Cambridge.
There's a female comic - forget her name - who has built a big standup success on sending up the Fleabag type 'superbright supermessy woman with striking but imperfect looks and raging libido' trope.
I love it when I get near to finishing a day of work, check twitter and find out that Bellingcat believe that Putin poisoned the Ukr negotiating team, and put Abramovich in hospital. Even better, Bellingcat are also reporting that they believe Putin, Shoigu et al are actually in the nuclear bunkers under the Urals: https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/1508461653314134017.
Think I'll take the steak with vats of red wine and bearnaise for dinner tonight.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
Wow. Are you sure you want to go down that road.
Clearly the answer is yes.
Verbal abuse is a form of abuse.
Abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves.
Which bit do you disagree with?
Mind boggling.
Yet you're not prepared to say which bit you disagree with, funny that.
Is it that you don't think abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves?
Or that you don't consider verbal abuse to really be abuse?
LOL.
So you have twatted or reserve the right to twat everyone that has verbally abused you?
I take it you have either never been verbally abused or you have been in many fights in which case great life to lead and you are very very lucky not to have ended up in court or hospital.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
Wow. Are you sure you want to go down that road.
Clearly the answer is yes.
Verbal abuse is a form of abuse.
Abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves.
Which bit do you disagree with?
Mind boggling.
Surely it is not beyond the wit of man to do so without resorting to violence.
Although given how belligerent some of the fans of fisticuffs are on here it is no shock they support this needless escalation.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Bosch on Amazon was also excellent. Euphoria is disturbing, but excellent. (And it's also a very long way from woke.)
I think this is all a classic example of survivorship bias. You remember all the crap that's out today that will never be renewed. And you forget all the crap that was around in 2000s that wasn't.
I quite liked Bosch (something I watched while on Zwift), but I don't think many were talking about it then, or now, let alone in a few years.
It's very popular in the US. I thought it was one of the best police procedurals in decades. High production value, complex plots, three dimensional characters.
Ended shittily, as most series do, but I do love me some Titus Welliver. It's 'spinoff starring the same character' presumably starts soon.
"Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons. One of victims was Russian entrepreneur Roman Abramovich."
I was expecting chemical weapons to be used in this conflict; this was not the vector I expected. Oddly, as it has been used several times before by one of the players...
Wow. So what’s the implication here? The Russians tried to poison the Ukrainian delegates, and were sloppy enough to overspill onto “neutrals”?
I don't know enough about how these things work, but might they have been hoping that the Ukrainian negotiators would unwittingly pass the poison onto Zelenskyy?
Idly scanning the press as I pas the bug-ridden time, I see two Times bits that made me raise an eyebrow:
"[The Turkish mediator proposed that] “Crimea and Donbas should be held by Moscow under a long-term lease, similar to Britain’s control over Hong Kong from 1898 to 1997, with their future decided at a later date”
- could be a possibility, maybe? Enables Ukraine to say they've not given up a ninch of soil, merely temporarily recignising the de facto situation, and Russia to say they've secured recognition for several decades. By the end of the period, both governments might look very different.
Also, "39 per cent of the French population would like an unelected strongman in charge."
Idly scanning the press as I pas the bug-ridden time, I see two Times bits that made me raise an eyebrow:
"[The Turkish mediator proposed that] “Crimea and Donbas should be held by Moscow under a long-term lease, similar to Britain’s control over Hong Kong from 1898 to 1997, with their future decided at a later date”
- could be a possibility, maybe? Enables Ukraine to say they've not given up a ninch of soil, merely temporarily recignising the de facto situation, and Russia to say they've secured recognition for several decades. By the end of the period, both governments might look very different.
Also, "39 per cent of the French population would like an unelected strongman in charge."
WTAF?
LOL at the last bit. How would they, er, elect such a person to that position.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
Wow. Are you sure you want to go down that road.
Clearly the answer is yes.
Verbal abuse is a form of abuse.
Abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves.
Which bit do you disagree with?
Mind boggling.
Yet you're not prepared to say which bit you disagree with, funny that.
Is it that you don't think abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves?
Or that you don't consider verbal abuse to really be abuse?
LOL.
So you have twatted or reserve the right to twat everyone that has verbally abused you?
I take it you have either never been verbally abused or you have been in many fights in which case great life to lead and you are very very lucky not to have ended up in court or hospital.
Reserve the right to, yes, absolutely.
Doesn't mean I would, as I said earlier to you, human beings are capable of this thing called "judgement" but if in your judgement the best way to end abuse is to turn physical, then that is self-defence.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
Wow. Are you sure you want to go down that road.
Clearly the answer is yes.
Verbal abuse is a form of abuse.
Abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves.
Which bit do you disagree with?
Self-defence has to be proportionate. Using physical violence in response to verbal abuse is disproportionate. Consequently a self-defence argument would fail.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
You haven't been watching its ratings decline, then
In 2004 (when Lord of the Rings won) the Oscars were watched by 43 million Americans. Since then there has been a slow decline, followed by a very fast decline (like the famous description of going bankrupt). Last year's awards were watched by just 10m, the lowest ever, down from 13m the year before. It's not Covid, it is an inherent, long-lasting problem
The Oscars are an important part of American soft power as they help to project Hollywood across the world.
If they disappear into ratings obscurity, just another local awards show (and that is where they are headed, maybe inevitably) that really is quite a big issue for the American movie industry, and for America itself, as a cultural superpower and soft power centre
I really doubt there is any link between the Oscars and American puissance.
The decline you mention is perhaps predictable in an age of social media. There’s too many demands on people’s time to sit down and wait to see who won best costume design this year.
Then, you have the Netflix x Covid effect. The last two years have been abominable for the film industry, people have switched off.
The Power of the Dog was nominated and released almost entirely on Netflix. However the issue is too many films the public like get ignored at the Oscars
No, the issue is that Hollywood doesn’t really make popular films that have a quotient of critical acceptability any more.
Was Braveheart a film of such critical brilliance? Or Rocky? Or Titanic? All won the Best Picture Oscar and I doubt they were really miles better than Spiderman or The Batman or Thor or the Avengers which get most of the box office big bucks today.
Yet even when Hollywood does produce a film of critical acceptability that does well at the box office too, eg La La Land, the Academy snubbed it. Even Warren Beatty could not believe it when Moonlight won in 2017 hence he read out the wrong winner
Titanic is one of the greatest films of all time.
In the space of two posts you've admitted to rating Mrs Brown's Boys over Fleabag and argued that Titanic deserved best film.
Just thought I'd point it out.
I stand by those views. Fleabag is tedious and unfunny, the characters unrealistic and impossible to relate to. Mrs Brown's Boys isn't great, it is very far from my favourite comedy but unlike Fleabag it did make me laugh and I think that is a fairly essential quality for a comedy programme. Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
I watched some Fleabag and wasn’t overly impressed. It was one of those shows the BBC kept congratulating itself and it’s little watched BBC Three about.
The first scene was Fleabag breaking the fourth wall while taking it up the bum. Most edgy. The show is all upper middle class angst.
Michaela Cole’s Chewing gum is supposed to be better.
Fleabag just reminded me of all the people I hated at Cambridge.
There's a female comic - forget her name - who has built a big standup success on sending up the Fleabag type 'superbright supermessy woman with striking but imperfect looks and raging libido' trope.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
Wow. Are you sure you want to go down that road.
Clearly the answer is yes.
Verbal abuse is a form of abuse.
Abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves.
Which bit do you disagree with?
Mind boggling.
Surely it is not beyond the wit of man to do so without resorting to violence.
Although given how belligerent some of the fans of fisticuffs are on here it is no shock they support this needless escalation.
I think there is an inverse relationship between those who are fans of fisticuffs and those who have indulged or had to indulge in fisticuffs. Is my betting.
PB vigilantes: bloody left full of snowflakes demanding comedians are cancelled because they make "offensive" jokes.
Also PB vigilantes: excellent news that a comedian got a slap for being offensive.
Not the same thing though, are they. Chris Rock getting what was due after insulting another man's wife isn't the same as wanting him to be cancelled. I've got no issue with him doing tours or hosting next year's event if they ask him.
Mate I applaud you for what you did to the people who were bullying you.
But this is a comedian being a comedian (making a joke about one of the most powerful Hollywood couples) and you think it's great to slap them for it. Can present the show next year but rightly gets a black eye if someone takes offence to what he says. Have a word with yourself.
Nah, you've misread the scenario if you think that's what this is about. Will Smith and Chris Rock have got a long standing mutual loathing of each other, my reading of it (and this has been confirmed by a studio exec this morning) is that Chris Rock wanted to have a go at Will Smith because he was odds on to win the award just for the sake of getting a dig in against a long standing rival. If he'd gone direct we wouldn't be talking about it but Chris Rock went indirect, insulted Will Smith's wife and made fun of her medical condition which all insiders say she's pretty sensitive about, loads were praising her bravery for coming to the ceremony without wearing a weave or a wig. Chris Rock made it personal and ultimately got what was coming to him. He should have realised if he was going to shit chat another man's wife this was a likely result.
Someone said it on here earlier, there's loads of things people say anonymously on the internet they wouldn't say to someone's face, well Chris Rock tested and proved that theory.
I get all that but I don't think it should end in violence. It's a comedian making a joke and the response was the act of a bully. Imagine instead of Chris Rock it had been The Rock. That would have been worth watching.
You're missing the point then, Dwayne Johnson wouldn't be making that joke. This is Chris Rock wanting to shit on Will Smith's big day in the sun, no more, no less. He got what was coming to him. Chris Rock abused his position as the host to have a pop at someone who he's already got a beef with, there's a word for people who abuse their authority.
I understand that - it was Chris Rock's golden opportunity to get at the Smiths. And he did so by making fun (not what he said but who cares) of Mrs Smith. And he got a slap for it. That is the law of the jungle. If the bully you beat up at school had come back with 10 of his brothers and slapped the fuck out of you then what? Once you are on that train you don't know where it's going to go.
My point is that Chris Rock invited the law of the jungle into the room, those who live by the sword will ultimately die by it.
In my situation, I honestly felt as though I had nothing to lose. My life couldn't have got much worse anyway and (horrifyingly) I had thought of the outcome you mentioned and I thought if they killed me someone might finally realise what was going on. I'm still ashamed of thinking that, to this day.
Blimmin' heck 2x well done you that is awful. Without wishing to take you back there was no one in authority in a position to help?
Edit: and it seems trivial vs the above and I think people know my view on it now but I don't think a comedian telling an offensive joke is inviting the law of the jungle into the room...
That's the thing with bullies, they make it seem as though there is no way out. The school was fucking useless, my dad was working basically 7am to 11pm and when he was home I didn't want to worry him with my trivial problems and my mum has eerily similar views to JJ about suffering in silence and waiting for God to deliver us from pain.
The only way out seemed to be a confrontation for which I was poorly prepared. In the end he was even less well prepared and once I had pushed him to the ground a few kicks to his head and body were enough to make him back off. It was only a few days later in the "clear the air" meeting between the two families that the headmaster realised what had been going on for almost two years. It was that realisation and the eventual coming forwards of other bullied kids that actually helped keep me in the school and, probably, the other bullies away.
Interesting thanks. And I presume the staff had dismissed it as boys being boys previously. And of course you could have killed him with a "few kicks to the head".
But I would rather not use yours as a case study as you did what you had to to, it was wholly admirable then, and achieved its aim and I am not intending to discuss it with any kind of smart-arse hindsight.
Back to Chris & Will!!
Worse than that, it was a boys school so there was a culture of not snitching and the teachers were very much part of pushing that culture. As I've said, the authorities, whether it's teachers at school or the police either seem to not care or simply don't want to know. Sadly, not much has changed in the 20 or so years since my experience, I'd say it's probably got worse, especially for girls.
Anyway, I'm heading off for a late lunch but I hope you can see why comments like "maybe you handled it incorrectly" from the likes of @JosiasJessop really, really annoy me. I think anyone who has been seriously bullied will recognise what I went through and also find his comment repulsive. Bullies don't give you a nice easy way out which is why so many victims commit suicide. It's almost as though people like him would rather that happen than people choosing to fight back because "violence is never the answer" which to me is such a hugely bullshit phrase, sometimes the situation requires words and reasoning, in other situations fighting might be the only way out.
On a similar note, my kid(s) is going to some kind of personal combat classes from early on, just to ensure they are prepared for what's out there so they've always got that way out if they need it. I never had that and had to hope the other kid wasn't much of a fighter either, I don't ever want my kid(s) to be in the same situation.
Thanks, Max. As I said, if you've read my comments previously, you'll know a different angle on this.
And a final note: behaviour that may be okay as a child may not be okay as an adult. It's called growing up.
You should try it.
But what's your advice to people being bullied? Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care. They want people who are being bullied to quietly disappear to make their lives easier and when the victim commits suicide we get the same old "lessons need to be learned" nonsense from the same authorities who didn't care enough to actually do something about it. I've lived through racist bullying, almost two years at school, you may think what I did was unethical or wrong but I know it was the only way out and as I mentioned to TOPPING then thought of being seriously injured or dying had crossed my mind many times before I snapped back, it was the other way out of my situation. That's what bullied people are faced with, being ignored by those who were supposed to protect us with no way out.
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
"Anyone who has been in that situation knows that the authorities neither care nor want to care."
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Violence is warranted some times in self-defence.
Its as simple as that.
Absolutely, in self-defence. I haven't said anything different.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
It is self-defence.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
Wow. Are you sure you want to go down that road.
Clearly the answer is yes.
Verbal abuse is a form of abuse.
Abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves.
Which bit do you disagree with?
Mind boggling.
Yet you're not prepared to say which bit you disagree with, funny that.
Is it that you don't think abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves?
Or that you don't consider verbal abuse to really be abuse?
In turn:
I disagree.
Of course they are.
Don't be stupid.
Verbal abuse is abuse, but it doesn't follow that responding with physical abuse is a reasonable response. Your starting premise is so stupid, and not helped by you then attempting the most preposterous of strawmans by characterising Topping as therefore in favour of abuse by not permitting the abused to defend themselves.
I've had my issues with things Topping has said before, but you've no grounds to presume he thinks what you've claimed - by your pseudo logic, it is such an insult as to be tantamount to be abuse and he should hit you.
The Oscars have always been about backslapping bullshit. The idea anyone could bemoan a decline in quality is risible.
The decline is in the quality of the films honoured, not in the ceremony itself (which has indeed been awful for as long as I can remember). But, the main awards - particularly Best Picture - used fairly often to be films lots of people had actually seen: the last one to break $100m at the US box office was in 2013, and the last to break $200m was Lord of the Rings in 2004.
Yes, fair.
Hollywood has been fucked by a combination of Marvel and Netflix.
I struggle to care about many new films these days. Yet I’d seen every film on that 1994 list published upthread.
And no, it’s not just age.
I've seen a couple of persuasive essays which make this point. Movies (like music) have got objectively worse in the last two decades. It's not just nostalgia and Fings Aint Wot They Used To Be, it is a real and measurable decline: even the vocabulary in the scripts has got simpler and more child-like
There are multiple reasons, from the death of the (hugely profitable) DVD to the decline in budgets to the advent of streaming to the atomising of audiences
One big reason is the rise of the Chinese and other markets. These are huge and irresistible for Hollywood studios under financial pressure, so movies are dumbed down so they can cross all cultures, and sell in Beijing as well as Brooklyn (hence all the Marvel/superhero/Star Wars bollocks); meanwhile the arthouse movie audience has almost completely vanished, decamped to watch excellent TV drama (which doesn't need Chinese/Indian/Brazilian audiences so can be really smart/meta/witty/rude)
It's a golden age for TV drama and video games. It's decline and fall for movies and music. Discuss
Not just about dumbing down for Chinese market, because limited slots per year for a Western film and the very strict censorship rules, you are going to resort to a certain type of film.
I think TV is somewhat in a slump at the moment. A lot of the big budget tv shows / primetime slots for the big networks like HBO aren't really very good. The big hit of the last few months, a weird South Korean show. Stuff like the Foundation on Apple+ weren't very good, despite mega bucks being plowed into it. There is nothing at the moment I am desperate to see the next episode. Severance is vaguely interesting.
There's a definitely a dip in TV quality. Foundation is ponderous, as is the other big fantasy thing, whose name escapes me it is so ephemeral (yet cost $$$$$)
However I am still finding decent stuff. The new Vikings Valhalla is a pretty good iteration (despite the hint of Woke creeping in). I am enjoying an excellent Danish history, 1864 (I think it's a few years old) about a mad nationalist invasion of another European country (it is incredibly timely, of course, but it is also good. Recommended). Mare of Easttown is gritty and moving. Succession is superb
And of course there is THE GREAT. Probably the funniest historical comedy ever made, a work of genius, and renewed for a new season
The quality is somewhat down, but we have been feasting on absolute riches for years, and maybe this is just a Covid hiatus, and the real good times will return
TV has always had good years and had years.
In the last two decades, we've had the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men, Succession, Curb Your Enthusiasm and also a bunch of utter shit.
There have been an awful lot of decent first series, that failed in their second or third, that we don't remember (or just remember the decline): Ted Lasso, Shut Eye, Lost, Desperate Housewives.
I think that's a pretty good haul for the last two decades.
Yes but sopranos breaking bad, the wire, mad men all quite old now rather proving my point that TV likely peaked in the 2010s
Last few years: Succession, Superstore, Top Boy, This is Us, Fargo, Black Mirror.
Some people like The Marvellous Mrs Maisel, Mrs America.
Then some great limited series: Small Axe, When They See Us, Chernobyl, The Night Of.
My daughter is obsessed with the Marvelous and Chernobyl was outstanding.
I love Maisel. It is popcorn, but really good popcorn with excellent condiments.
Rachel Brosnahan is also excellent in the underrated "Manhattan". Cancelled one season too soon, probably to its benefit.
Comments
As for growing up, I've mentioned it on here before, the worst case of racism I've experienced as an adult resulted in me not reacting to it. I said it on here, my then girlfriend and now wife told me after we got married it was one of the moments she realised we'd get married and have kids.
https://alexmassie.substack.com/p/the-debatable-land-16-the-lia-thomas
I think a man standing up for his wife and reacting when his wife is upset to ensure it doesn't happen again is rather chivalrous not "a bad example".
Titanic is a modern day epic, with incredible spectacle, wonderfully charismatic and believable leads and a beautiful love story at its core. The ship and its sinking are brilliantly realised, and it feels fresh and dramatic every time you watch it. I am in pieces by the end, when Rose and Jack are reunited after Rose's death with the others who died. Of course it is dreadfully sentimental and cheesy, but the fact that it still works I think just confirms its greatness.
Sometimes its not even a season, they do a handful of the episodes, roughly draft the other ones and let somebody else fill in the blanks.
All 5 seasons of the Wire pretty much every single episode was written by the same very small group of people.
Still, I am sure Leon thinks it was staged. By Chinese aliens, probably.
Same with Shostakovich and music; Larkin and poems; Anthony Powell and the English novel; Comper and architecture; Prokofiev and ballet; Tippett and opera.
There is a grumpy old man fest to be had here. Having daughters I had to sit through the horrors of the Harry Potter films
The rise of streaming has led to a huge demand for “good enough” TV drama: Netflix et al have detailed metrics & they know what gets bums on seats so they go out and get it made. They’ve got the money to spend on production & apparently the quality of the script just doesn’t matter all that much. Or at least not so far anyway.
Too much mediocre telly, not enough stuff that you’d stay in to watch were it on a timed broadcast. We’ve dropped most streaming services now & will probably drop the last hold out (or maybe just rotate it around to pick up anything worth watching) fairly soon.
The "sticks and stones" mantra has never rang true to me. Words can wound very badly. It can be worse to be on the wrong side of intense verbal torment and humiliation than of a slap or a punch.
It’s amazing these views have traction
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/the-great-aids-scam-a-dry-run-for-covid/
If you like the books, maybe give the show another go and if you don't like it by the end of episode 4 then fair enough.
My main criticism of the series would be that they cut too much from the book, it could have been done with being 10 episodes in the season instead of 8, but that's a book-lover's criticism.
So what do you do as a film boss type? Go to the well over and over again for the same few things - a massive superhero franchise, Xth sequel of a big well-known franchise, something something Tom Cruise something, a reboot of something everyone loved in the 90's. Rinse and repeat.
The result is ever more bland films - truly popcorn stuff, nothing so incredibly awful to make your eyes bleed but nothing of any real originality or merit, bar the very odd exception. Which flops because it didn't make a mahoosive profit, regardless of what it actually did make.
So they have thrown masses of money at it, loads of shit, but hoping that a) they get enough winners and b) the shitter stuff still keeps enough bums on seats. They couldn't rely on making just the stellar stuff like House of Cards or The Crown, backed up with enough of other people's content like Friends, which they know people will go to if nothing else on there.
*Russian Oligarch Roman Abramovich, Ukrainian Peace Negotiators Suffer Symptoms of Suspected Poisoning
*Symptoms Appeared After Meeting in Kyiv Earlier This Month
https://twitter.com/Anthony/status/1508461541141757955
Have more confidence in your material.
I've had friends with kids who have had very mixed experiences. For a couple, the schools behaved brilliantly. In one in particular, the school behaved very poorly (not helped by the fact the bully and victim were changing from primary to secondary). That was a particularly nasty case, but was physical abuse by the bully.
So in my limited second-hand experience it is mixed. I know the primary school the little 'un is in is quite responsive to bullying, though thankfully we haven't learnt about their response first-hand. The little 'un is an only child and quite introverted, so we're trying to educate him about how to respond.
As I've said many times previously, I went through much of my school life with my leg in a cast, and sometimes unable to walk. I was bullied a little, although oddly not as much as some. Never physically. I ignored it. Then again, I had an older brother and sister so probably was a little hardened.
I just don't see how resorting physically to verbal abuse is in any way warranted, especially in adults.
Its as simple as that.
A mother has admitted using her car to try to move a climate change protester blocking the road in Grays, Essex, while she was on the school run.
Sherrilyn Speid, 35, of Grays, pleaded guilty to a charge of dangerous driving when she appeared at Southend Magistrates' Court.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-60900298
She should have just got out and slapped eco-fascists....or does that only work among Hollywood celebs?
I've given you a fuller answer below - it is not a 'dreamland'.
See the Ipcress Factor, which I moaned about upthread.
Hitting an idiot because they give you verbal is not 'self-defence'. It's escalation.
Verbal abuse is still abuse. Using violence in defence against abuse is acceptable.
It may be different in the independent sector since there seems to be a rich vein of sadism, cruelty and the will to dominate in the world-view of the English Upper classes (Hitler spoke very approvingly of the great English public schools).
1st round
Macron 27.5%
Le Pen 18.5%
Melenchon 15.5%
Zemmour 11.5%
Pecresse 10%
Runoff
Macron 57%
Le Pen 43%
Macron 60%
Melenchon 40%
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1508451348282580997?s=20&t=3h4f4CntB_sPO68h17dw7w
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1508454330730438661?s=20&t=3h4f4CntB_sPO68h17dw7w
Yet I find both the programme, and its creator, likeable in a way I can't pin down. I'm pleased it exists. It's a very uncomplicated comedy. It's not trying to make me take any particular opinion, or advance an agenda; it's not trading solely on currency of 'awkward'; it's largely just jokes. Not, unfortunately, jokes which make me laugh, but the approach is rare and refreshing.
The sitcom-in-front-of-a-live-studio-audience seemed archaic very suddenly. Up until the Royle Family it was the norm; within 18 months it seemed like it was from another era. And yet I can't help feeling that sometimes modern sitcoms wish they could have the live audience back; it must be very hard for a comedian to land jokes without the confirmation of laughter. Indeed, even as a viewer, while I certainly agree that the comedy without the audience is a better, purer and more authentic product - well, it needs a very, very good product to work; and I sometimes can't help wondering whether some of the last two decades' less successful offerings might actually have been funnier with the aid of studio laughter.
Heretical, I know.
A lot of people recommended Ozark, but I found the main character too much of a shit to wish to follow it.
The ‘zero-Covid’ approach got bad press, but it worked – and it could work again
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/28/no-covid-approach-bad-press-but-worked
I moved him to another school. The culture of the new school, an RC school, really did not accept bullying. Anyone who tried it was seriously punished by the head.
Either way, I would never have suggested my son smacked the perpetrators.
Some people like The Marvellous Mrs Maisel, Mrs America.
Then some great limited series: Small Axe, When They See Us, Chernobyl, The Night Of.
I learned the hard way that having self defence skills was really important growing up, I really hope you give your lad the opportunity to learn them before sending him off to secondary school.
https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1508463513013997580
I was expecting chemical weapons to be used in this conflict; this was not the vector I expected. Oddly, as it has been used several times before by one of the players...
Verbal abuse is abuse. Either you believe in self-defence against abuse, or you don't, I do.
The Russians tried to poison the Ukrainian delegates, and were sloppy enough to overspill onto “neutrals”?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/roman-abramovich-and-ukrainian-peace-negotiators-suffer-symptoms-of-suspected-poisoning-11648480493
I think this is all a classic example of survivorship bias. You remember all the crap that's out today that will never be renewed. And you forget all the crap that was around in 2000s that wasn't.
The first scene was Fleabag breaking the fourth wall while taking it up the bum. Most edgy. The show is all upper middle class angst.
Michaela Cole’s Chewing gum is supposed to be better.
So no, I am not one of those people who think psychological abuse is not real. But I am far from convinced that hitting someone is the correct response.
But at school I saw plenty of bullies smacking younger kids and saying; "Miss! Miss! He called me a name!"
If my lad wants to take self defence classes, I'll encourage him. If he doesn't, I won't. Simples.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Reported date is normally a day or 2 latter than specimen date, and the lag between infection and testing positive of 3-4 days, we are probably now a bit after peek, obviously I don't know how fast it will fall or what the equilibrium rate will be, but this is still good news
A tragedy when Jodie Comer is such a fantastic actor (eg Help).
I don't need my TV to be groundbreaking, or even the stuff aficionados will talking about for years to come. Just something well-written with believable characters and sharp dialogue does me just fine. Alas, not as common as it should be.
Which roasts the old 'comedy has to make you laugh' chestnut.
England data missing.
Verbal abuse is a form of abuse.
Abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves.
Which bit do you disagree with?
- Cases - UP. But R is returning to 1 - already below in a number of arease. Overall, it is only fractionally above for the UK as a whole.
- Hospitals - incomplete data for today, but probably UP in the various categories.
- Deaths - UP
Is it that you don't think abuse victims are entitled to defend themselves?
Or that you don't consider verbal abuse to really be abuse?
"I quite like to present as competent".
Meant to be very very sharp and funny.
Think I'll take the steak with vats of red wine and bearnaise for dinner tonight.
Yeah, but not *that* hard. https://twitter.com/AndrewSparrow/status/1508464265795096580
So you have twatted or reserve the right to twat everyone that has verbally abused you?
I take it you have either never been verbally abused or you have been in many fights in which case great life to lead and you are very very lucky not to have ended up in court or hospital.
Although given how belligerent some of the fans of fisticuffs are on here it is no shock they support this needless escalation.
"[The Turkish mediator proposed that] “Crimea and Donbas should be held by Moscow under a long-term lease, similar to Britain’s control over Hong Kong from 1898 to 1997, with their future decided at a later date”
- could be a possibility, maybe? Enables Ukraine to say they've not given up a ninch of soil, merely temporarily recignising the de facto situation, and Russia to say they've secured recognition for several decades. By the end of the period, both governments might look very different.
Also, "39 per cent of the French population would like an unelected strongman in charge."
WTAF?
Doesn't mean I would, as I said earlier to you, human beings are capable of this thing called "judgement" but if in your judgement the best way to end abuse is to turn physical, then that is self-defence.
I disagree.
Of course they are.
Don't be stupid.
Verbal abuse is abuse, but it doesn't follow that responding with physical abuse is a reasonable response. Your starting premise is so stupid, and not helped by you then attempting the most preposterous of strawmans by characterising Topping as therefore in favour of abuse by not permitting the abused to defend themselves.
I've had my issues with things Topping has said before, but you've no grounds to presume he thinks what you've claimed - by your pseudo logic, it is such an insult as to be tantamount to be abuse and he should hit you.
https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk
Rachel Brosnahan is also excellent in the underrated "Manhattan". Cancelled one season too soon, probably to its benefit.