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How the pandemic impacted the UK – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,049
edited April 2022 in General
How the pandemic impacted the UK – politicalbetting.com

So concerns about implications for mental health: a third feel their mental hlth is worse than 2 years ago, even higher among young people and women (and in fact on many issues young people often feel hit harder). Probably not helped by changes in sleeping patterns either… 2/6 pic.twitter.com/DVHeh3hZfi

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229
    First!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    edited March 2022
    Easy. There were no parties, they were work events.

    Handled well you say. Now, about Michelle Mone's £120m of never to be used Chinese PPE contract.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Do we need a judge led inquiry?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,455
    These results should worry Starmer.

    I don't think that a population that is isolated and pessimistic is going to elect a Labour government. The conditions that are most likely to result in the population electing a Labour government are optimism that a better future is possible and greater trust in other people (which you can't cultivate if you're too scared to leave home to mix with them).
  • rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    'Boris Johnson turning Downing Street in to a drinking and nightclub venue to rival The Ministry of Sound will be a hindrance for him and a reason to avoid campaigning on his Covid-19 record.'

    You forgot the DfE.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,369
    edited March 2022
    Interesting that China has decided against shutting down Shanghai completely in the way they did with other cities, because the economic costs would be too high.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Talking of promotion, we won't talk about the cricket.

    But is there a market for the next England captain assuming - and I think this is a safe assumption - that Root will not be captain come the summer?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Not going to happen. I am the Lewis Hamilton of PB!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Not going to happen. I am the Lewis Hamilton of PB!
    Nah, you're tenth, not 16th.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290
    On those sociability and loneliness scores, I’m still amazed by the people I overhear saying ‘oh this is my first meal out in 2 years’, or ‘I haven’t been to a pub since last summer’

    Still a deep pool of caution out there
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Back to Ukraine, it looks like the Ukrainians might have done a small scale amphibious landing immediately to the west of the city of Kherson.

    Map here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/health/ukraine-health-tb-hiv.html

    if they did do a small boat landing in this area, it might have had the benefit of tactical surprise and the advantage of advancing from a direction the enemy was not expecting. On the other hand it might just be the 'Advance' arrow is in slightly the wrong place, and therefor nothing of the sort.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229

    Easy. There were no parties, they were work events.

    Handled well you say. Now, about Michelle Mone's £120m of never to be used Chinese PPE contract.

    My understanding with contracts in - you know - the real world, is that if you are delivered product that does not meet specifications, then you say "I'm not taking this, and I'm not paying".

    How did this simple step fail here?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,869
    Isn't saying that you don't want another lockdown just saying that you don't want things to get so bad that we need another lockdown?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.

    if FDP does not clear that herdable, I think from the numbers that SPD could govern without a partner, which I think is unusual in Germany.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,869
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
    So you were first on the thread, but it's all downhill from here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273

    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.

    So. A majority government if the FDP fail to make the five.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,109

    Isn't saying that you don't want another lockdown just saying that you don't want things to get so bad that we need another lockdown?

    Aiui we should be OK on the lockdown front provided no new variant escapes (is that the word?) the vaccines.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290

    Isn't saying that you don't want another lockdown just saying that you don't want things to get so bad that we need another lockdown?

    No, it’s a lot of people who just won’t lock down again, not even for Bubonic plague

    They’re the opposite of the Uber-cautious types I mentioned below. The young, in particular
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,601
    Leon said:

    Isn't saying that you don't want another lockdown just saying that you don't want things to get so bad that we need another lockdown?

    No, it’s a lot of people who just won’t lock down again, not even for Bubonic plague

    They’re the opposite of the Uber-cautious types I mentioned below. The young, in particular
    I was outside today, somewhere in London.

    And I encountered several people walking outside wearing masks, including a possibly 60 ish woman with a stick.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    edited March 2022
    BigRich said:

    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.

    if FDP does not clear that herdable, I think from the numbers that SPD could govern without a partner, which I think is unusual in Germany.
    Doesn't happen very often (at least not nowadays) although the CDU won a majority in Saarland in 2004 during their early 2000s high watermark (plus the CSU obviously used to achieve that regularly). The last time SPD won a majority was in Hamburg in 2011 under Scholz and Rhineland-Palatinate before that in 2006.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,965
    edited March 2022
    FPT

    This is interesting, would like to see more of this. Tower blocks in Glasgow have gone through various revisions, originally the saviours of Gorbals dwellers (& seen as such by those folk), then sink holes for impoverished Glaswegians, now another revision seems in the pipeline. Getting away from knocking everything down & starting again would be a good move in any case I think.

    Generally there seem to be very different attitudes to high rises. Paris (admittedly a city I hardly know) appears to see the banlieues as something to be forgotten about while Berlin seems to take some pride in them.



    https://twitter.com/SustainableTall/status/1507639645148180481?s=20&t=G-cGnn2hjagmQPHvP0eSBg

    It depends how they are built and who they are aimed at. A friend was early into getting mortgages available for tower blocks in the UK - used to be that the big lenders wouldn't lend above floor X....

    The demented social engineers who built unsafe "communal spaces" into their structures really achieved something special.
    You should see the original plans for rebuilding Glasgow after WWII, which including razing the city centre (the greatest Victoria city in Europe - Betjeman), Speer and had nothing on them. They still had a bloody good go, mind.


    I was told the Glasgow tower block policy was driven by the tightly drawn city boundaries. Leafy and wealthy suburbs like Bearsden, Milngavie and Newton Means were deliberately kept outwith city boundaries, a problem in itself. It meant the city council had to put slum replacement housing within the confines of the city or it would lose the tax base. Hence the high rises.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
    You are Spending the Kids' Inheritance? Well done Sir!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273

    BigRich said:

    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.

    if FDP does not clear that herdable, I think from the numbers that SPD could govern without a partner, which I think is unusual in Germany.
    Doesn't happen very often (at least not nowadays) although the CDU won a majority in Saarland in 2004 during their early 2000s high watermark (plus the CSU obviously used to achieve that regularly). The last time SPD won a majority was in Hamburg in 2011 under Scholz and Rhineland-Palatinate before that in 2006.
    Strengthens their presence in the Bundesrat. Where the Opposition wields a majority.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229
    FPT:
    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    This is interesting, would like to see more of this. Tower blocks in Glasgow have gone through various revisions, originally the saviours of Gorbals dwellers (& seen as such by those folk), then sink holes for impoverished Glaswegians, now another revision seems in the pipeline. Getting away from knocking everything down & starting again would be a good move in any case I think.

    Generally there seem to be very different attitudes to high rises. Paris (admittedly a city I hardly know) appears to see the banlieues as something to be forgotten about while Berlin seems to take some pride in them.



    https://twitter.com/SustainableTall/status/1507639645148180481?s=20&t=G-cGnn2hjagmQPHvP0eSBg

    It depends how they are built and who they are aimed at. A friend was early into getting mortgages available for tower blocks in the UK - used to be that the big lenders wouldn't lend above floor X....

    The demented social engineers who built unsafe "communal spaces" into their structures really achieved something special.
    You should see the original plans for rebuilding Glasgow after WWII, which including razing the city centre (the greatest Victoria city in Europe - Betjeman), Speer and Germania had nothing on them. They still had a bloody good go, mind.


    I must admit to a sneaking admiration of post war Town planners. There was a misplaced belief in the future, and that vibrant communities would thrive in these cities in the skies. Too much faith in human progress, I suppose, when it seems what is really wanted is a better facsimile of the past.

    One thing I do see from Ukraine is that the Kruschevski concrete blocks of flats seem to have lasted better than our own 1950s and 60's blocks. At least until mother Russia came visiting.
    Can you point to any evidence that such planners actually liked or understood humans, or were they just using them as some sort of funnel of reconstituted human fodder for their grand experiments, like liquidised meat in Subway's ham?
    They genuinely thought people would be happier in the sky. Low rise density was associated with pollution, squalor, bad air, bad sanitation.

    They didn’t think about how humans really interact, nipping from door to door, down the road to the shops. They didn’t realize how you could upgrade low rise housing with much less effort, and much less destruction of communities (however poor)

    Most of all, all of that was secondary to the vanity and arrogance of planners, architects and politicians, who wanted their names celebrated with big shiny towers not boring but careful redevelopment. Ooops
    But a lot of rich people still choose to live in high rise apartments. It seems to be something to do with whether or not you had a choice to live in a tower block.
    The most common arrangement in Italian towns is a small-ish block of say six or eight apartments. If you get good neighbours this can work really well since you have the same sort of community as you might get in a small cul-de-sac, amplified by the need and opportunity to co-operate over the shared space and garden. Obviously if you have problem neighbours it doesn’t work so well - but then that’s true of any housing arrangement with a degree of proximity.
    It's very similar in Germany: six to eight large apartments in one block with some communal space.

    What's nice about that, is that it's a small enough number of people that you usually know everyone pretty well.
    Dunbar numbers: 150 = a village (the maximum number of relationships a person can maintain); 1,500 = the corporate division/the regiment (the number of faces to which you can put a name).
    Your second number is interesting: does that mean that the growth of celebrity is meaning that we can recognise fewer people we might actually know, because all of our face slots are taking by Z list celebrities?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,364
    edited March 2022
    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
    So you were first on the thread, but it's all downhill from here.
    Whatever you do, don't let @YBarddCwsc know I'm skiing, he'll have me pegged as a Covid spreading Remainer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
    So you were first on the thread, but it's all downhill from here.
    He'll stick at nothing after being in pole position.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229

    Isn't saying that you don't want another lockdown just saying that you don't want things to get so bad that we need another lockdown?

    Aiui we should be OK on the lockdown front provided no new variant escapes (is that the word?) the vaccines.
    99% of the adult UK population has Covid antibodies of some type. Whatever happens, our immune systems have a signficant headstart.

    And so, while the inevitable variants and waves will have a fairly negative impact on the provision of health care in other areas, we are highly unlikely to go anywhere near full lockdown again.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
    So you were first on the thread, but it's all downhill from here.
    Whatever you do, don't let @YBarddCwsc know I'm skiing, he'll have me pegged as a Covid spreading Remainer.
    Why would a Covid be spreading 'Remainer?'
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    edited March 2022
    dixiedean said:

    BigRich said:

    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.

    if FDP does not clear that herdable, I think from the numbers that SPD could govern without a partner, which I think is unusual in Germany.
    Doesn't happen very often (at least not nowadays) although the CDU won a majority in Saarland in 2004 during their early 2000s high watermark (plus the CSU obviously used to achieve that regularly). The last time SPD won a majority was in Hamburg in 2011 under Scholz and Rhineland-Palatinate before that in 2006.
    Strengthens their presence in the Bundesrat. Where the Opposition wields a majority.
    This should be a good year for the SPD. The only election the CDU looks certain to win is in Schleswig Holstein. Even if the CDU narrowly outpolls the SPD in NRW an SPD led administration is likely there as the FDP can be included as well. Lower Saxony is also extremely likely to produce an SPD-Green majority.

    Scholz is in a much better position than Schröder who scraped a razor thin win in 2002 then the SPD collapsed immediately afterwards and got destroyed in State elections from 2003-2005.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
    You are Spending the Kids' Inheritance? Well done Sir!
    I want the last cheque I write to bounce.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229
    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
    You are Spending the Kids' Inheritance? Well done Sir!
    I want the last cheque I write to bounce.
    You intend to die while trampolining?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Apparently they were OK because, erm, someone official said so in China. Though

    'A lawyer for PPE Medpro indicated that the company believes it is entitled to keep the money paid for the unused gowns, on the basis that it did fulfil the contract. They said: “The gowns were fully inspected by DHSC agents and only when they were satisfied that the contractual requirements had been met was payment sent to PPE Medpro. Payment was sent in full, clearly signifying complete satisfaction with the inspection process.”'

    and

    'A lawyer for PPE Medpro did not dispute that no notified body had certified the gowns as sterile, but suggested that was not required because the gowns had been approved under “an equivalent technical solution” that meant that “the normal rules do not apply”.

    They suggested PPE Medpro was exempted from standard rules because its products were supplied under “very specifically and precisely agreed processes” and “in accordance with the annexures to the contract”.'

    And so on. Rather odd story, not least thast the DHSC won't say what is wrong with the things.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/27/government-paid-firm-linked-to-tory-peer-122m-for-ppe-bought-for-46m
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,032
    FF43 said:

    FPT

    This is interesting, would like to see more of this. Tower blocks in Glasgow have gone through various revisions, originally the saviours of Gorbals dwellers (& seen as such by those folk), then sink holes for impoverished Glaswegians, now another revision seems in the pipeline. Getting away from knocking everything down & starting again would be a good move in any case I think.

    Generally there seem to be very different attitudes to high rises. Paris (admittedly a city I hardly know) appears to see the banlieues as something to be forgotten about while Berlin seems to take some pride in them.



    https://twitter.com/SustainableTall/status/1507639645148180481?s=20&t=G-cGnn2hjagmQPHvP0eSBg

    It depends how they are built and who they are aimed at. A friend was early into getting mortgages available for tower blocks in the UK - used to be that the big lenders wouldn't lend above floor X....

    The demented social engineers who built unsafe "communal spaces" into their structures really achieved something special.
    You should see the original plans for rebuilding Glasgow after WWII, which including razing the city centre (the greatest Victoria city in Europe - Betjeman), Speer and had nothing on them. They still had a bloody good go, mind.


    I was told the Glasgow tower block policy was driven by the tightly drawn city boundaries. Leafy and wealthy suburbs like Bearsden, Milngavie and Newton Means were deliberately kept outwith city boundaries, a problem in itself. It meant the city council had to put slum replacement housing within the confines of the city or it would lose the tax base. Hence the high rises.
    Hm - a problem common to most British big cities. Manchester also had a very tightly drawn boundary, but by and large avoided tower blocks. If you ever get up high in Manchester City centre you can pretty much see where Manchester stops and Salford/Trafford starts by where the 60s residential tower blocks are and are not. Some councils just liked tower blocks.
    Nottingham, too, had a very tightly drawn boundary and also eschewed tower blocks.

    Often in Britain we managed to build tower blocks without actually creating all that much density (actually this is pretty much how le corbusier imagined it).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,003
    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Very odd Cameron putting her in HOL, something very dodgy there
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    edited March 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. The PPE gowns ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK, or so I assume. Else there was a huge cockup in DHSC over approval of the payment. I can;t read it in any other than those ways. [Edited]
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273

    dixiedean said:

    BigRich said:

    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.

    if FDP does not clear that herdable, I think from the numbers that SPD could govern without a partner, which I think is unusual in Germany.
    Doesn't happen very often (at least not nowadays) although the CDU won a majority in Saarland in 2004 during their early 2000s high watermark (plus the CSU obviously used to achieve that regularly). The last time SPD won a majority was in Hamburg in 2011 under Scholz and Rhineland-Palatinate before that in 2006.
    Strengthens their presence in the Bundesrat. Where the Opposition wields a majority.
    This should be a good year for the SPD. The only election the CDU looks certain to win is in Schleswig Holstein. Even if the CDU narrowly outpolls the SPD in NRW an SPD led administration is likely there as the FDP can be included as well. Lower Saxony is also extremely likely to produce an SPD-Green majority.

    Scholz is in a much better position than Schröder who scraped a razor thin win in 2002 then the SPD collapsed immediately afterwards and got destroyed in State elections from 2003-2005.
    Yes.
    Folk may not know ( probably do on here), that the Lander governments appoint their State representatives to the Bundesrat.
    Therefore, as a member of the government, it becomes in the interests of the FDP and the Greens to side with the SPD at State level, and thus make it easier to get National policy through.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    malcolmg said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Very odd Cameron putting her in HOL, something very dodgy there
    Sure there is. The House of Lords.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Apparently no refund because reasons (lawyers). What is this, some dodgy internet seller on a marketplace website??
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    malcolmg said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Very odd Cameron putting her in HOL, something very dodgy there
    She mentioned she was interested in how old boobs surrounded by red leather could benefit him and he misunderstood?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229
    Carnyx said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Apparently they were OK because, erm, someone official said so in China. Though

    'A lawyer for PPE Medpro indicated that the company believes it is entitled to keep the money paid for the unused gowns, on the basis that it did fulfil the contract. They said: “The gowns were fully inspected by DHSC agents and only when they were satisfied that the contractual requirements had been met was payment sent to PPE Medpro. Payment was sent in full, clearly signifying complete satisfaction with the inspection process.”'

    and

    'A lawyer for PPE Medpro did not dispute that no notified body had certified the gowns as sterile, but suggested that was not required because the gowns had been approved under “an equivalent technical solution” that meant that “the normal rules do not apply”.

    They suggested PPE Medpro was exempted from standard rules because its products were supplied under “very specifically and precisely agreed processes” and “in accordance with the annexures to the contract”.'

    And so on. Rather odd story, not least thast the DHSC won't say what is wrong with the things.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/27/government-paid-firm-linked-to-tory-peer-122m-for-ppe-bought-for-46m
    I would want to see the annexes to the contract, as this sounds to me like the vendor slipped a line in there about certification by an approved standards body.

    In all probability these gowns were self-certified by the manufacturer as compliant with the relevant Chinese standard. Whether the annex covers this scenario, we simply don't know.

    Irrespective, HMG should be pushing for a full refund.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Might be confusing for Johnson though, he doesn't normally ask ladies to return his donations.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Might be confusing for Johnson though, he doesn't normally ask ladies to return his donations.
    Talking about that sort of thing, I mean politics involving Ms Mone, I thought Ms Mone had promised to close down her ladies' underwear firm and emigrate from Scotland in the event of Yes winning indyref 1 ...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Might be confusing for Johnson though, he doesn't normally ask ladies to return his donations.
    I think Boris is likely gutted he couldn’t offer to have a weapon dangled over her head in return for favours.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Might be confusing for Johnson though, he doesn't normally ask ladies to return his donations.
    Talking about that sort of thing, I mean politics involving Ms Mone, I thought Ms Mone had promised to close down her ladies' underwear firm and emigrate from Scotland in the event of Yes winning indyref 1 ...
    So she was going to shed her underwear and go down south if someone said yes?

    Sorry I will stop now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Might be confusing for Johnson though, he doesn't normally ask ladies to return his donations.
    Talking about that sort of thing, I mean politics involving Ms Mone, I thought Ms Mone had promised to close down her ladies' underwear firm and emigrate from Scotland in the event of Yes winning indyref 1 ...
    So she was going to shed her underwear and go down south if someone said yes?

    Sorry I will stop now.
    She and her staff certainly appear to be knickers.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,455
    edited March 2022
    BigRich said:

    Back to Ukraine, it looks like the Ukrainians might have done a small scale amphibious landing immediately to the west of the city of Kherson.

    Map here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/health/ukraine-health-tb-hiv.html

    if they did do a small boat landing in this area, it might have had the benefit of tactical surprise and the advantage of advancing from a direction the enemy was not expecting. On the other hand it might just be the 'Advance' arrow is in slightly the wrong place, and therefor nothing of the sort.

    I would have thought that a small boat operation gaining tactical surprise would be the sort of thing the normally slick Ukrainian social media operation would have a video of and boast about subsequent to the operation's completion. So much more likely to be a misplaced arrow on the map.

    Did see a claim that the Ukrainians have pushed the Russians back to the border after taking Trostyanets.

    These sorts of advances will become more difficult, because the remaining Russian forces will have had time to dig in and fortify their positions. I think this is why the emphasis on Zelensky's requests for weaponry has shifted to include Tanks as well as aircraft. They'll need tanks to break through Russian fortified positions, but they feel as though they are in a position where that is a relevant concern.

    Anyone seen a TB2 video recently? I realised I didn't remember seeing one when I saw a video from a drone dropping munitions on a tank in a more improvised manner. Possible that they've all been shot down now.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,507
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Apparently no refund because reasons (lawyers). What is this, some dodgy internet seller on a marketplace website??
    Actually ebay (for example) are shit hot on refunds if the buyer isn't happy with the item, to the point of them saying 'nah, didn't think it would be that particular shade of green' or 'changed my mind'. Grinds my gears so it does.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229
    edited March 2022

    BigRich said:

    Back to Ukraine, it looks like the Ukrainians might have done a small scale amphibious landing immediately to the west of the city of Kherson.

    Map here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/health/ukraine-health-tb-hiv.html

    if they did do a small boat landing in this area, it might have had the benefit of tactical surprise and the advantage of advancing from a direction the enemy was not expecting. On the other hand it might just be the 'Advance' arrow is in slightly the wrong place, and therefor nothing of the sort.

    I would have thought that a small boat operation gaining tactical surprise would be the sort of thing the normally slick Ukrainian social media operation would have a video of and boast about subsequent to the operation's completion. So much more likely to be a misplaced arrow on the map.

    Did see a claim that the Ukrainians have pushed the Russians back to the border after taking Trostyanets.

    These sorts of advances will become more difficult, because the remaining Russian forces will have had time to dig in and fortify their positions. I think this is why the emphasis on Zelensky's requests for weaponry has shifted to include Tanks as well as aircraft. They'll need tanks to break through Russian fortified positions, but they feel as though they are in a position where that is a relevant concern.

    Anyone seen a TB2 video recently? I realised I didn't remember seeing one when I saw a video from a drone dropping munitions on a tank in a more improvised manner. Possible that they've all been shot down now.
    On the other hand, the Russians will likely end up being short of food, ammunition, and fuel. The desire to defend until the death diminishes with discomfort and an inability to shoot back.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229
    edited March 2022

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Apparently no refund because reasons (lawyers). What is this, some dodgy internet seller on a marketplace website??
    Actually ebay (for example) are shit hot on refunds if the buyer isn't happy with the item, to the point of them saying 'nah, didn't think it would be that particular shade of green' or 'changed my mind'. Grinds my gears so it does.
    Yes: I sold someone a bitcoin miner. They used if for about twelve weeks, and then returned it claiming it didn't work. They basically stole a few thousand pounds off me.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Apparently no refund because reasons (lawyers). What is this, some dodgy internet seller on a marketplace website??
    Actually ebay (for example) are shit hot on refunds if the buyer isn't happy with the item, to the point of them saying 'nah, didn't think it would be that particular shade of green' or 'changed my mind'. Grinds my gears so it does.
    Yes: I sold someone a bitcoin miner. They used if for about twelve weeks, and then returned it claiming it didn't work. They basically stole a few thousand pounds off me.
    “ I sold someone a bitcoin miner”

    I would avoid making a donation to an Oxbridge college in future if you don’t want post mortem opprobrium.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,507
    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Apparently no refund because reasons (lawyers). What is this, some dodgy internet seller on a marketplace website??
    Actually ebay (for example) are shit hot on refunds if the buyer isn't happy with the item, to the point of them saying 'nah, didn't think it would be that particular shade of green' or 'changed my mind'. Grinds my gears so it does.
    Yes: I sold someone a bitcoin miner. They used if for about twelve weeks, and then returned it claiming it didn't work. They basically stole a few thousand pounds off me.
    :o
    My stuff is a fair bit more small time than that!
    I got a teeny bit of satisfaction in a guy opening a claim for not receiving an item thinking I hadn't sent it tracked; in response I sent the proof of delivery including pic of signature and the claim was rapidly closed by him. Trouble is it's extremely difficult to leave bad feedback for buyers so they carry on on their merry way.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,555

    BigRich said:

    Back to Ukraine, it looks like the Ukrainians might have done a small scale amphibious landing immediately to the west of the city of Kherson.

    Map here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/health/ukraine-health-tb-hiv.html

    if they did do a small boat landing in this area, it might have had the benefit of tactical surprise and the advantage of advancing from a direction the enemy was not expecting. On the other hand it might just be the 'Advance' arrow is in slightly the wrong place, and therefor nothing of the sort.

    I would have thought that a small boat operation gaining tactical surprise would be the sort of thing the normally slick Ukrainian social media operation would have a video of and boast about subsequent to the operation's completion. So much more likely to be a misplaced arrow on the map.

    Did see a claim that the Ukrainians have pushed the Russians back to the border after taking Trostyanets.

    These sorts of advances will become more difficult, because the remaining Russian forces will have had time to dig in and fortify their positions. I think this is why the emphasis on Zelensky's requests for weaponry has shifted to include Tanks as well as aircraft. They'll need tanks to break through Russian fortified positions, but they feel as though they are in a position where that is a relevant concern.

    Anyone seen a TB2 video recently? I realised I didn't remember seeing one when I saw a video from a drone dropping munitions on a tank in a more improvised manner. Possible that they've all been shot down now.
    Haven't heard much about the encirclement of the Russian forces north of Kiev lately. I'd have thought that was key. Last thing they want is said people heading for Donbass.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,455
    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    Back to Ukraine, it looks like the Ukrainians might have done a small scale amphibious landing immediately to the west of the city of Kherson.

    Map here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/health/ukraine-health-tb-hiv.html

    if they did do a small boat landing in this area, it might have had the benefit of tactical surprise and the advantage of advancing from a direction the enemy was not expecting. On the other hand it might just be the 'Advance' arrow is in slightly the wrong place, and therefor nothing of the sort.

    I would have thought that a small boat operation gaining tactical surprise would be the sort of thing the normally slick Ukrainian social media operation would have a video of and boast about subsequent to the operation's completion. So much more likely to be a misplaced arrow on the map.

    Did see a claim that the Ukrainians have pushed the Russians back to the border after taking Trostyanets.

    These sorts of advances will become more difficult, because the remaining Russian forces will have had time to dig in and fortify their positions. I think this is why the emphasis on Zelensky's requests for weaponry has shifted to include Tanks as well as aircraft. They'll need tanks to break through Russian fortified positions, but they feel as though they are in a position where that is a relevant concern.

    Anyone seen a TB2 video recently? I realised I didn't remember seeing one when I saw a video from a drone dropping munitions on a tank in a more improvised manner. Possible that they've all been shot down now.
    On the other hand, the Russians will likely end up being short of food, ammunition, and fuel. The desire to defend until the death diminishes with discomfort and an inability to shoot back.
    To an extent that argument can be overdone. If western estimates of Russian losses are at all accurate then a lot of Russian soldiers have been prepared to fight and die (or be seriously wounded). Fixed positions should also be easier to supply than mobile columns.

    And fewer will be prepared to surrender as today's video of Russian PoWs being shot in the legs is circulated.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,965
    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    BigRich said:

    Back to Ukraine, it looks like the Ukrainians might have done a small scale amphibious landing immediately to the west of the city of Kherson.

    Map here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/health/ukraine-health-tb-hiv.html

    if they did do a small boat landing in this area, it might have had the benefit of tactical surprise and the advantage of advancing from a direction the enemy was not expecting. On the other hand it might just be the 'Advance' arrow is in slightly the wrong place, and therefor nothing of the sort.

    I would have thought that a small boat operation gaining tactical surprise would be the sort of thing the normally slick Ukrainian social media operation would have a video of and boast about subsequent to the operation's completion. So much more likely to be a misplaced arrow on the map.

    Did see a claim that the Ukrainians have pushed the Russians back to the border after taking Trostyanets.

    These sorts of advances will become more difficult, because the remaining Russian forces will have had time to dig in and fortify their positions. I think this is why the emphasis on Zelensky's requests for weaponry has shifted to include Tanks as well as aircraft. They'll need tanks to break through Russian fortified positions, but they feel as though they are in a position where that is a relevant concern.

    Anyone seen a TB2 video recently? I realised I didn't remember seeing one when I saw a video from a drone dropping munitions on a tank in a more improvised manner. Possible that they've all been shot down now.
    The liberation of Trostuanete is encouraging, only saddened by the knowledge that apparat form destroying the local infastrucher the Russians even mined the hospital.

    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3440997-russians-plant-mines-in-hospital-before-retreating-from-trostianets.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    Safety car.
    Deja vu all over again.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Might be confusing for Johnson though, he doesn't normally ask ladies to return his donations.
    Talking about that sort of thing, I mean politics involving Ms Mone, I thought Ms Mone had promised to close down her ladies' underwear firm and emigrate from Scotland in the event of Yes winning indyref 1 ...
    So she was going to shed her underwear and go down south if someone said yes?

    Sorry I will stop now.
    She still did it when someone said no, got rid of the firm and moved south. But job done, and Mr C happy (sure beat being photographed with the most passive-aggressive porridge factory workers a No 10 PR wonk never imagined existed).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    edited March 2022
    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    If you're looking for logic in the mind of Boris Johnson, you're in for a long hunt...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,742
    BigRich said:

    BigRich said:

    Back to Ukraine, it looks like the Ukrainians might have done a small scale amphibious landing immediately to the west of the city of Kherson.

    Map here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/health/ukraine-health-tb-hiv.html

    if they did do a small boat landing in this area, it might have had the benefit of tactical surprise and the advantage of advancing from a direction the enemy was not expecting. On the other hand it might just be the 'Advance' arrow is in slightly the wrong place, and therefor nothing of the sort.

    I would have thought that a small boat operation gaining tactical surprise would be the sort of thing the normally slick Ukrainian social media operation would have a video of and boast about subsequent to the operation's completion. So much more likely to be a misplaced arrow on the map.

    Did see a claim that the Ukrainians have pushed the Russians back to the border after taking Trostyanets.

    These sorts of advances will become more difficult, because the remaining Russian forces will have had time to dig in and fortify their positions. I think this is why the emphasis on Zelensky's requests for weaponry has shifted to include Tanks as well as aircraft. They'll need tanks to break through Russian fortified positions, but they feel as though they are in a position where that is a relevant concern.

    Anyone seen a TB2 video recently? I realised I didn't remember seeing one when I saw a video from a drone dropping munitions on a tank in a more improvised manner. Possible that they've all been shot down now.
    The liberation of Trostuanete is encouraging, only saddened by the knowledge that apparat form destroying the local infastrucher the Russians even mined the hospital.

    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3440997-russians-plant-mines-in-hospital-before-retreating-from-trostianets.html
    Ukrainians take down another Su-34, one of the newest aircraft the Russians have.

    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3441342-ukrainian-forces-shoot-down-another-russian-su34-armyinform.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,229

    BigRich said:

    BigRich said:

    Back to Ukraine, it looks like the Ukrainians might have done a small scale amphibious landing immediately to the west of the city of Kherson.

    Map here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/health/ukraine-health-tb-hiv.html

    if they did do a small boat landing in this area, it might have had the benefit of tactical surprise and the advantage of advancing from a direction the enemy was not expecting. On the other hand it might just be the 'Advance' arrow is in slightly the wrong place, and therefor nothing of the sort.

    I would have thought that a small boat operation gaining tactical surprise would be the sort of thing the normally slick Ukrainian social media operation would have a video of and boast about subsequent to the operation's completion. So much more likely to be a misplaced arrow on the map.

    Did see a claim that the Ukrainians have pushed the Russians back to the border after taking Trostyanets.

    These sorts of advances will become more difficult, because the remaining Russian forces will have had time to dig in and fortify their positions. I think this is why the emphasis on Zelensky's requests for weaponry has shifted to include Tanks as well as aircraft. They'll need tanks to break through Russian fortified positions, but they feel as though they are in a position where that is a relevant concern.

    Anyone seen a TB2 video recently? I realised I didn't remember seeing one when I saw a video from a drone dropping munitions on a tank in a more improvised manner. Possible that they've all been shot down now.
    The liberation of Trostuanete is encouraging, only saddened by the knowledge that apparat form destroying the local infastrucher the Russians even mined the hospital.

    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3440997-russians-plant-mines-in-hospital-before-retreating-from-trostianets.html
    Ukrainians take down another Su-34, one of the newest aircraft the Russians have.

    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3441342-ukrainian-forces-shoot-down-another-russian-su34-armyinform.html
    While I hope that is true, that site doesn't look very... impartial.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,742
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
    You are Spending the Kids' Inheritance? Well done Sir!
    I want the last cheque I write to bounce.
    As long as the cheque bouncing isn't the reason it's your last....

    You wouldn't bounce a cheque to the Krays, in the day.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216


    And fewer will be prepared to surrender as today's video of Russian PoWs being shot in the legs is circulated.

    There is some debate over whether the video is genuine or staged - but clearly it needs to be properly investigated. War crimes are war crimes who ever commits them.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,465
    edited March 2022
    dixiedean said:

    BigRich said:

    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.

    if FDP does not clear that herdable, I think from the numbers that SPD could govern without a partner, which I think is unusual in Germany.
    Doesn't happen very often (at least not nowadays) although the CDU won a majority in Saarland in 2004 during their early 2000s high watermark (plus the CSU obviously used to achieve that regularly). The last time SPD won a majority was in Hamburg in 2011 under Scholz and Rhineland-Palatinate before that in 2006.
    Strengthens their presence in the Bundesrat. Where the Opposition wields a majority.
    Used to be a Linke stronghold (relatively) because it's the home of ex-Finance minister Oskar Lafontaine, who defected from the SPD. However, he's been at loggerheads with the local leadership (not sure what about) and resigned spectaculartly a few days before the election. The SPD will have benefited. Meanwhile, the CDU have been quarrelling nationally too, enabling Scholz to be the Landesvater above such things in difficult times.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,647
    Evening all :)

    Sun shining here in east London and a sense of moving beyond winter with the prospect of some outdoor evenings beckoning (though not next week if the weather forecast is correct).

    On topic, it's complex and nuanced. I know of more people who have had the virus in the past month than in most of the past two years but it's not been much more than an inconvenience or nuisance at most.

    The medium and longer term societal, economic and cultural impacts of the virus are still emerging and will do so for some time. We can all answer for the personal and immediate impacts on ourselves and our families and our friends.

    One area of clear change is work - particularly for administrative or office-based staff. Whether it's outright WFH or "hybrid" or "flexible" working, the days of working five days a week at a desk in an office are over for many people. That has impacts on the commercial and residential property sectors as well as transport provision and the local economies of where people live. Culturally, it's blurring the distinction of work life and home life and changing the suburban lifestyle and ending the compartmentalisation of work and home.

    All this has been made possible by the technology of domestic broadband provision which has meant, for those whose work is primarily digital, work is no longer location dependent. That has both positive and negative impacts in terms of socialisation, team building, organisational functionality etc. It's also fair to say it's not the same for everyone - there are those who have taken to the new world better than others and some organisations have embraced the new reality while others have tried to return to pre-virus ways of working.

    I was once told the only constant is change but the speed and scale of the change (at least in this area) caused by the virus has been profoundly difficult for some, indeed many, to adapt.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    edited March 2022
    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489


    And fewer will be prepared to surrender as today's video of Russian PoWs being shot in the legs is circulated.

    There is some debate over whether the video is genuine or staged - but clearly it needs to be properly investigated. War crimes are war crimes who ever commits them.
    Yes all Crimes should be investigated, even if by forces on the side we hope will win. I have no idea weather its fake, (I fell for a very obvious forgery yesterday with 4 helicopters being shot down)

    however, I do suspect it will be shown to the Russian troops as evidence of how the Ukrainians treat prisoners in an attempt, to discourage defection.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052

    dixiedean said:

    BigRich said:

    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.

    if FDP does not clear that herdable, I think from the numbers that SPD could govern without a partner, which I think is unusual in Germany.
    Doesn't happen very often (at least not nowadays) although the CDU won a majority in Saarland in 2004 during their early 2000s high watermark (plus the CSU obviously used to achieve that regularly). The last time SPD won a majority was in Hamburg in 2011 under Scholz and Rhineland-Palatinate before that in 2006.
    Strengthens their presence in the Bundesrat. Where the Opposition wields a majority.
    This should be a good year for the SPD. The only election the CDU looks certain to win is in Schleswig Holstein. Even if the CDU narrowly outpolls the SPD in NRW an SPD led administration is likely there as the FDP can be included as well. Lower Saxony is also extremely likely to produce an SPD-Green majority.

    Scholz is in a much better position than Schröder who scraped a razor thin win in 2002 then the SPD collapsed immediately afterwards and got destroyed in State elections from 2003-2005.
    Good result for the SPD in Saarland's state election but the latest national German poll has the SPD and Union tied on 26% each

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/insa.htm
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,852
    rcs1000 said:

    Easy. There were no parties, they were work events.

    Handled well you say. Now, about Michelle Mone's £120m of never to be used Chinese PPE contract.

    My understanding with contracts in - you know - the real world, is that if you are delivered product that does not meet specifications, then you say "I'm not taking this, and I'm not paying".

    How did this simple step fail here?
    Because in the pandemic you had to pay in advance to secure the goods.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    First!

    Void - on the grounds of insider dealing.

    M Pete promoted to first.
    Believe it or not, I'm skiing and not doing any PB admin work.
    You are Spending the Kids' Inheritance? Well done Sir!
    I want the last cheque I write to bounce.
    As long as the cheque bouncing isn't the reason it's your last....

    You wouldn't bounce a cheque to the Krays, in the day.
    AIUI uncleared cheques become void on the death of the signatory, anyway.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,852
    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Good luck with getting the money out of China
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    BigRich said:

    Crushing victory for the SPD in Saarland with about 43% and 27.5% for the CDU. Linke vote below 3%. AfD and Greens appear to have scraped in with 5.5% but unclear for the FDP who are teetering on 5%.

    if FDP does not clear that herdable, I think from the numbers that SPD could govern without a partner, which I think is unusual in Germany.
    Doesn't happen very often (at least not nowadays) although the CDU won a majority in Saarland in 2004 during their early 2000s high watermark (plus the CSU obviously used to achieve that regularly). The last time SPD won a majority was in Hamburg in 2011 under Scholz and Rhineland-Palatinate before that in 2006.
    Strengthens their presence in the Bundesrat. Where the Opposition wields a majority.
    This should be a good year for the SPD. The only election the CDU looks certain to win is in Schleswig Holstein. Even if the CDU narrowly outpolls the SPD in NRW an SPD led administration is likely there as the FDP can be included as well. Lower Saxony is also extremely likely to produce an SPD-Green majority.

    Scholz is in a much better position than Schröder who scraped a razor thin win in 2002 then the SPD collapsed immediately afterwards and got destroyed in State elections from 2003-2005.
    Good result for the SPD in Saarland's state election but the latest national German poll has the SPD and Union tied on 26% each

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/insa.htm
    It's all margin of error stuff though TBH compared to 2017 and Scholz still comfortably leads Merz in personal ratings. The CDU/CSU also hasn't polled above 27% in any poll. I agree that State elections don't have too much direct effect nationally except on the Bundesrat.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,478
    BigRich said:


    And fewer will be prepared to surrender as today's video of Russian PoWs being shot in the legs is circulated.

    There is some debate over whether the video is genuine or staged - but clearly it needs to be properly investigated. War crimes are war crimes who ever commits them.
    Yes all Crimes should be investigated, even if by forces on the side we hope will win. I have no idea weather its fake, (I fell for a very obvious forgery yesterday with 4 helicopters being shot down)

    however, I do suspect it will be shown to the Russian troops as evidence of how the Ukrainians treat prisoners in an attempt, to discourage defection.
    There's another type of fake: an image or video that is real, but from a different context. Photos have gone around this morning, showing a Ukrainian SU-27 that had flown so low it had hit a road sign. The pictures are real: it is a Ukrainian plane, and it did hit a road sign.

    Except the incident occurred during training eighteen months ago, and people are posting as though it happened during the war.
    https://theaviationist.com/2020/08/29/ukrainian-su-27-flanker-hit-a-road-sign-during-highway-landing-training/
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,965
    edited March 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even more aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,507
    edited March 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    I know you're not impressed by the ballot box, so it seems you need the Armalite to persuade you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    The EU were warned if they focused solely on avoiding a hard border in Ireland to avoid a return to violence by the IRA they risked a return to violence by loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF if they insisted on demanding a border in the Irish Sea for a UK and EU trade deal rather than finding a technical solution as the UK government wanted.

    The EU and Dublin ploughed on regardless and the UVF bomb threat last week is the result.

    There is of course NO increase in support for SF, latest Stormont poll has SF on 23%, down on the 27% they got in 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    rcs1000 said:

    BigRich said:

    Back to Ukraine, it looks like the Ukrainians might have done a small scale amphibious landing immediately to the west of the city of Kherson.

    Map here: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/health/ukraine-health-tb-hiv.html

    if they did do a small boat landing in this area, it might have had the benefit of tactical surprise and the advantage of advancing from a direction the enemy was not expecting. On the other hand it might just be the 'Advance' arrow is in slightly the wrong place, and therefor nothing of the sort.

    I would have thought that a small boat operation gaining tactical surprise would be the sort of thing the normally slick Ukrainian social media operation would have a video of and boast about subsequent to the operation's completion. So much more likely to be a misplaced arrow on the map.

    Did see a claim that the Ukrainians have pushed the Russians back to the border after taking Trostyanets.

    These sorts of advances will become more difficult, because the remaining Russian forces will have had time to dig in and fortify their positions. I think this is why the emphasis on Zelensky's requests for weaponry has shifted to include Tanks as well as aircraft. They'll need tanks to break through Russian fortified positions, but they feel as though they are in a position where that is a relevant concern.

    Anyone seen a TB2 video recently? I realised I didn't remember seeing one when I saw a video from a drone dropping munitions on a tank in a more improvised manner. Possible that they've all been shot down now.
    On the other hand, the Russians will likely end up being short of food, ammunition, and fuel. The desire to defend until the death diminishes with discomfort and an inability to shoot back.
    To an extent that argument can be overdone. If western estimates of Russian losses are at all accurate then a lot of Russian soldiers have been prepared to fight and die (or be seriously wounded). Fixed positions should also be easier to supply than mobile columns.

    And fewer will be prepared to surrender as today's video of Russian PoWs being shot in the legs is circulated.
    Firstly, that video needs to be investigated. It looks like it’s an Azov unit responsible so there is a good chance it’s real but it needs to be confirmed.

    Re the a lot of Russian soldiers have been prepared to die argument, I’m not sure how right that is. Obviously, lots have died but it is also clear from multiple sources and the visuals that the morale isn’t high. There is only so much of that you can take.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,040
    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 1000,

    If they delivered something unsuitable for purpose, and ask millions for it, Mrs Mone can go ... herself. If the government pay, it's akin to asking for their JSA.

    Exactly. If it doesn't work, you don't take it, and you don't pay for it.

    THey seem to have paid for them before delivery ... unless I am misreading the Graun piece. They ceretainly seem to ihave been paid for when the DHSC etc actually inspected them in the UK.
    Then you send the stuff back, and you demand a refund.

    This isn't complicated stuff.
    Apparently no refund because reasons (lawyers). What is this, some dodgy internet seller on a marketplace website??
    Actually ebay (for example) are shit hot on refunds if the buyer isn't happy with the item, to the point of them saying 'nah, didn't think it would be that particular shade of green' or 'changed my mind'. Grinds my gears so it does.
    Yes: I sold someone a bitcoin miner. They used if for about twelve weeks, and then returned it claiming it didn't work. They basically stole a few thousand pounds off me.
    You sound a bit off piste about it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    So, Jeddah:

    1) Corners are too tight, so they crash.
    2) Surface is too rough, so they can't grip the corners.
    3) Temperatures are too high, so the cars break down.
    4) It's held in a state whose rulers make Putin look like a tame pussycat.

    I mean - seriously, F1?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    The EU were warned if they focused solely on avoiding a hard border in Ireland to avoid a return to violence by the IRA they risked a return to violence by loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF if they insisted on demanding a border in the Irish Sea for a UK and EU trade deal rather than finding a technical solution as the UK government wanted.

    The EU and Dublin ploughed on regardless and the UVF bomb threat last week is the result.

    There is of course NO increase in support for SF, latest Stormont poll has SF on 23%, down on the 27% they got in 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election
    Before @HYFUD gets jumped on for his comment, he has a point. The talks around the risks to the Good Friday agreement on the border talks all came from one direction ie the worry that the IRA would start off again. Very few mentioned the opposite side of the coin ie what would the Unionists do. You might find one or two articles on it but the vast majority of opinion - mainly pushed by people who didn’t want Brexit - was the risk of what the Republicans would do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    The EU were warned if they focused solely on avoiding a hard border in Ireland to avoid a return to violence by the IRA they risked a return to violence by loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF if they insisted on demanding a border in the Irish Sea for a UK and EU trade deal rather than finding a technical solution as the UK government wanted.

    The EU and Dublin ploughed on regardless and the UVF bomb threat last week is the result.

    There is of course NO increase in support for SF, latest Stormont poll has SF on 23%, down on the 27% they got in 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election
    Before @HYFUD gets jumped on for his comment, he has a point. The talks around the risks to the Good Friday agreement on the border talks all came from one direction ie the worry that the IRA would start off again. Very few mentioned the opposite side of the coin ie what would the Unionists do. You might find one or two articles on it but the vast majority of opinion - mainly pushed by people who didn’t want Brexit - was the risk of what the Republicans would do.
    Which is true, but that is why it was so damn stupid of Johnson to plonk the border in the Irish Sea as the EU wanted rather than keep the whole UK in the single market until a solution was found.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290
    ‘People who have not had Covid yet, probably have no friends, a Korean doctor says’

    https://apple.news/AuG5aXWJzS-aHSYfzoPm75g
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,647
    Two elections this weekend.

    In Malta, the incumbent Labour Party looks to have won another clear victory over the Nationalists. The Nationalist leader, Bernard Grech, has already conceded defeat - one estimate I've seen has Labour at 56% and actually gaining seats but we'll see.

    As for Saarland, the latest exit poll has the SPD at 43.6% and the CDU at 28.2% with AfD on 5.3%, the Greens on 5.0% and the FPD on 4.9%. It seems very likely the SPD will win an overall majority with 26 of the 51 seats in the Landtag. A terrible result for the Union under the new leader, Friedrich Merz, whose first serious test this was.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    The EU were warned if they focused solely on avoiding a hard border in Ireland to avoid a return to violence by the IRA they risked a return to violence by loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF if they insisted on demanding a border in the Irish Sea for a UK and EU trade deal rather than finding a technical solution as the UK government wanted.

    The EU and Dublin ploughed on regardless and the UVF bomb threat last week is the result.

    There is of course NO increase in support for SF, latest Stormont poll has SF on 23%, down on the 27% they got in 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election
    I hope you condemn recent loyalist behaviour including Friday's disgraceful incident which also disrupted a funeral.

    Sinn Fein is indeed down although possibly by only 4 seats or so. I can see Alliance and the nationalist parties having more efficient seat distribution than unionist parties and Alliance and SDLP are of course the most transfer friendly. I don't see why the DUP wouldn't serve under a SF FM but expects SF to serve under a DUP FM? The positions are equal. What's the end game here?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    The EU were warned if they focused solely on avoiding a hard border in Ireland to avoid a return to violence by the IRA they risked a return to violence by loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF if they insisted on demanding a border in the Irish Sea for a UK and EU trade deal rather than finding a technical solution as the UK government wanted.

    The EU and Dublin ploughed on regardless and the UVF bomb threat last week is the result.

    There is of course NO increase in support for SF, latest Stormont poll has SF on 23%, down on the 27% they got in 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election
    Before @HYFUD gets jumped on for his comment, he has a point. The talks around the risks to the Good Friday agreement on the border talks all came from one direction ie the worry that the IRA would start off again. Very few mentioned the opposite side of the coin ie what would the Unionists do. You might find one or two articles on it but the vast majority of opinion - mainly pushed by people who didn’t want Brexit - was the risk of what the Republicans would do.
    Yes and the UK government did its part by not going to No Deal and imposing a hard border in Ireland thus risking a return to IRA violence.

    Shame the EU did not reciprocate
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,625
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even more aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    Thus appeasing the violent and the terrorists.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,275
    Way off topic . . . and meanwhile, back at the ranch . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - US Rep. Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska announces resignation

    OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — Republican U.S. Rep. Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska on Saturday resigned from office after a California jury convicted him of lying to federal authorities about an illegal campaign donation from a foreign national.

    In a letter to the House, Fortenberry said he was resigning from Congress, effective March 31.

    “It has been my honor to serve with you in the United States House of Representatives,” he said in the letter. “Due to the difficulties of my current circumstances, I can no longer effectively serve.”

    Fortenberry’s resignation letter opened with a poem, “Do It Anyway,” that’s associated with fellow Catholic Mother Teresa. One line from the poem says: “What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight. Build anyway.”

    Fortenberry’s announcement followed concerted pressure from political leaders in Nebraska and Washington for him to step down. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy on Friday urged Fortenberry to resign.

    Nebraska Republican Gov. Pete Ricketts said Fortenberry should “do the right thing for his constituents” and leave the office he has held since 2005.

    Fortenberry was indicted in October after authorities said he lied to FBI agents in two separate interviews about his knowledge of an illegal $30,000 contribution from his campaign from a foreign billionaire. Fortenberry was interviewed at his home in Lincoln, and then again with his lawyers present in Washington, D.C.

    At trial, prosecutors presented recorded phone conversations in which Fortenberry was repeatedly warned that the contributions came from Gilbert Chagoury, a Nigerian billionaire of Lebanese descent. The donations were funneled through three strawmen at a 2016 fundraiser in Los Angeles.

    Fortenberry’s withdrawal from the primary leaves state Sen. Mike Flood as the likely GOP nominee. The former speaker of the Nebraska Legislature, who has won endorsements from Ricketts and former Gov. Dave Heineman, has a strong advantage in the Republican-leaning 1st Congressional District. State Sen. Patty Pansing Brooks, a Democrat from Lincoln, is also running for the seat. . . .

    SSI - Note that according to Politico, redistricting has made Neb CD1, which includes Lincoln and rural turf in eastern part of great Cornhusker state, somewhat less friendly to GOP, going from Trump G20 margin of +15.4 to +11.2%. Meaning that Republican hold is highly likely, if not carved in stone.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    Leon said:

    ‘People who have not had Covid yet, probably have no friends, a Korean doctor says’

    https://apple.news/AuG5aXWJzS-aHSYfzoPm75g

    I’ve not knowingly had Covid, although I’m suspicious about my sore throat of a few weeks back (tested negative on day 3). I don’t have a huge social life but I have been teaching a lot of students at the uni.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    The EU were warned if they focused solely on avoiding a hard border in Ireland to avoid a return to violence by the IRA they risked a return to violence by loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF if they insisted on demanding a border in the Irish Sea for a UK and EU trade deal rather than finding a technical solution as the UK government wanted.

    The EU and Dublin ploughed on regardless and the UVF bomb threat last week is the result.

    There is of course NO increase in support for SF, latest Stormont poll has SF on 23%, down on the 27% they got in 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election
    I hope you condemn recent loyalist behaviour including Friday's disgraceful incident which also disrupted a funeral.

    Sinn Fein is indeed down although possibly by only 4 seats or so. I can see Alliance and the nationalist parties having more efficient seat distribution than unionist parties and Alliance and SDLP are of course the most transfer friendly. I don't see why the DUP wouldn't serve under a SF FM but expects SF to serve under a DUP FM? The positions are equal. What's the end game here?
    I condemn it of course but I am sadly not surprised by it.

    The DUP have made clear they will not serve in the Stormont Executive full stop as FM or DFM until Article 16 is triggered and the Irish Sea border removed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,052
    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    The EU were warned if they focused solely on avoiding a hard border in Ireland to avoid a return to violence by the IRA they risked a return to violence by loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF if they insisted on demanding a border in the Irish Sea for a UK and EU trade deal rather than finding a technical solution as the UK government wanted.

    The EU and Dublin ploughed on regardless and the UVF bomb threat last week is the result.

    There is of course NO increase in support for SF, latest Stormont poll has SF on 23%, down on the 27% they got in 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election
    Before @HYFUD gets jumped on for his comment, he has a point. The talks around the risks to the Good Friday agreement on the border talks all came from one direction ie the worry that the IRA would start off again. Very few mentioned the opposite side of the coin ie what would the Unionists do. You might find one or two articles on it but the vast majority of opinion - mainly pushed by people who didn’t want Brexit - was the risk of what the Republicans would do.
    Which is true, but that is why it was so damn stupid of Johnson to plonk the border in the Irish Sea as the EU wanted rather than keep the whole UK in the single market until a solution was found.
    Which would likely have seen the Brexit Party get 15 to 20% of the vote in 2019, no Brexit still and no Tory majority.

    What Boris proposed instead was a technical solution
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,109
    Leon said:

    ‘People who have not had Covid yet, probably have no friends, a Korean doctor says’

    https://apple.news/AuG5aXWJzS-aHSYfzoPm75g

    That's me told.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    edited March 2022
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    The EU were warned if they focused solely on avoiding a hard border in Ireland to avoid a return to violence by the IRA they risked a return to violence by loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF if they insisted on demanding a border in the Irish Sea for a UK and EU trade deal rather than finding a technical solution as the UK government wanted.

    The EU and Dublin ploughed on regardless and the UVF bomb threat last week is the result.

    There is of course NO increase in support for SF, latest Stormont poll has SF on 23%, down on the 27% they got in 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election
    Before @HYFUD gets jumped on for his comment, he has a point. The talks around the risks to the Good Friday agreement on the border talks all came from one direction ie the worry that the IRA would start off again. Very few mentioned the opposite side of the coin ie what would the Unionists do. You might find one or two articles on it but the vast majority of opinion - mainly pushed by people who didn’t want Brexit - was the risk of what the Republicans would do.
    Which is true, but that is why it was so damn stupid of Johnson to plonk the border in the Irish Sea as the EU wanted rather than keep the whole UK in the single market until a solution was found.
    Which would likely have seen the Brexit Party get 15 to 20% of the vote in 2019, no Brexit still and no Tory majority.

    What Boris proposed instead was a technical solution
    What Johnson proposed was giving in to all the EU's demands and hoping something would turn up later.

    It hasn't, and that's now a problem without an obvious solution.

    Which is why the EU's idea was such a stupid idea, and Johnson was stupider still to accept it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    FF43 said:

    Johnson should trigger Article 16 because Sinn Féin will likely be largest party in Stormont after May 5.

    Could someone explain the logic?

    I'd like to know too. Because it will only piss off the locals even more and increase the SF/Alliance vote and convert *UP to DNV.

    Maybe he wants his own little war? [Edit: that last is SARCASTIC and not meant literally. But what is the logic? I don't understand it either.]
    The UVF already made a bomb threat against the Irish Foreign Minister in Belfast last week.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uvf-believed-to-have-been-behind-bomb-hoax-in-which-coveney-was-targeted-1.4836439

    Violence is more likely if Boris does not trigger Art 16 now.

    Most Unionists of course oppose the NIP
    So the logic is that Unionists already pissed off by lack of Article 16 will be even aggravated by the increase in support for Sinn Féin. So better trigger A16 to hopefully reduce the chances of them being violent?
    The EU were warned if they focused solely on avoiding a hard border in Ireland to avoid a return to violence by the IRA they risked a return to violence by loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF if they insisted on demanding a border in the Irish Sea for a UK and EU trade deal rather than finding a technical solution as the UK government wanted.

    The EU and Dublin ploughed on regardless and the UVF bomb threat last week is the result.

    There is of course NO increase in support for SF, latest Stormont poll has SF on 23%, down on the 27% they got in 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Northern_Ireland_Assembly_election
    Before @HYFUD gets jumped on for his comment, he has a point. The talks around the risks to the Good Friday agreement on the border talks all came from one direction ie the worry that the IRA would start off again. Very few mentioned the opposite side of the coin ie what would the Unionists do. You might find one or two articles on it but the vast majority of opinion - mainly pushed by people who didn’t want Brexit - was the risk of what the Republicans would do.
    Which is true, but that is why it was so damn stupid of Johnson to plonk the border in the Irish Sea as the EU wanted rather than keep the whole UK in the single market until a solution was found.
    Which would likely have seen the Brexit Party get 15 to 20% of the vote in 2019, no Brexit still and no Tory majority.

    What Boris proposed instead was a technical solution
    Which didn't exist.

    So he lied to win voters? A revolutionary new assessment of our PM.
This discussion has been closed.