How will CON voters view Johnson’s relationship with Lededev? – politicalbetting.com
One of the must reads in the Sunday papers look set to be the above in the Sunday Times and raises huge questions over why Johnson overruled advisors and insisted that Lebedev be made a member of the House of Lords.
The head of MI6 had concerns about Boris Johnson’s friend Evgeny Lebedev almost a decade ago
In 2013, Sir John Sawers repeatedly rejected bid by KGB agent’s son to meet at MI6 HQ
No10 doesn't deny PM knew about incident
Lebedev instructed editor of the Independent, a paper he owned, to get him access to lunch with MI6 chief
Sawers refused, said he'd play no role in Lebedev campaign to infiltrate the establishment
Lebedev pushed back. MI6, aware of significant risks in meeting him, held firm
At the time, Johnson was building a close friendship with Lebedev
The incident was relayed to his most senior aides. One said it’s implausible he didn’t know too
But then London mayor kept seeing Lebedev, repeatedly visiting his villa and castle in Italy
New docs show Johnson opened doors of City Hall to Lebedev, who pitched festival with “substantial support” from Kremlin He said he’d be “thrilled” if Lebedev’s papers could cover him positively
And he received £7k of flights, accommodation and private cars in three years
During this time Lebedev closely mirrored Putin positions
He suggested MI6 may have killed Alexander Litvinenko, played down invasion of Crimea, said Putin showed leadership in Syria
He said Russians thanked Putin for “unimaginable freedoms, “regained sense of national pride"
Fast Forward to 2019: Johnson said he wanted to give a peerage to Lebedev immediately after becoming PM
One former aide said he was “pathological” about it
Another believed it was a joke at first but said Johnson was determined
In March 2020, House of Lords Appointments Commission advised Johnson against nominating Lebedev
Peers cited national security concerns raised by British intelligence
Per source, PM reacted with disbelief, suggesting Lebedev couldn’t possibly be a risk
He then instructed officials to challenge intelligence assessment,
PM had rejected their analysis and wanted a specific reason why he couldn’t nominate Lebedev
Civil servant says this isn’t how intel works. PM seized on absence of one reason to re-submit nomination
Keir Starmer has written to Lord Bew of Holac asking it to make two unprecedented decisions: review Lebedev’s peerage, publish its advice to the PM
Marina Litvinenko also calls for review
Lebedev refused to comment at all but on Friday denied being a national security risk
Parked for now. But once the Ukraine war is in a new phase, hard to see how he explains this away to MPs.
Given the collective lack of integrity and moral courage from the only MPs who matter, who should have removed him three months ago, that hardly seems likely to matter.
The head of MI6 had concerns about Boris Johnson’s friend Evgeny Lebedev almost a decade ago
In 2013, Sir John Sawers repeatedly rejected bid by KGB agent’s son to meet at MI6 HQ
No10 doesn't deny PM knew about incident
Lebedev instructed editor of the Independent, a paper he owned, to get him access to lunch with MI6 chief
Sawers refused, said he'd play no role in Lebedev campaign to infiltrate the establishment
Lebedev pushed back. MI6, aware of significant risks in meeting him, held firm
At the time, Johnson was building a close friendship with Lebedev
The incident was relayed to his most senior aides. One said it’s implausible he didn’t know too
But then London mayor kept seeing Lebedev, repeatedly visiting his villa and castle in Italy
New docs show Johnson opened doors of City Hall to Lebedev, who pitched festival with “substantial support” from Kremlin He said he’d be “thrilled” if Lebedev’s papers could cover him positively
And he received £7k of flights, accommodation and private cars in three years
During this time Lebedev closely mirrored Putin positions
He suggested MI6 may have killed Alexander Litvinenko, played down invasion of Crimea, said Putin showed leadership in Syria
He said Russians thanked Putin for “unimaginable freedoms, “regained sense of national pride"
Fast Forward to 2019: Johnson said he wanted to give a peerage to Lebedev immediately after becoming PM
One former aide said he was “pathological” about it
Another believed it was a joke at first but said Johnson was determined
In March 2020, House of Lords Appointments Commission advised Johnson against nominating Lebedev
Peers cited national security concerns raised by British intelligence
Per source, PM reacted with disbelief, suggesting Lebedev couldn’t possibly be a risk
He then instructed officials to challenge intelligence assessment,
PM had rejected their analysis and wanted a specific reason why he couldn’t nominate Lebedev
Civil servant says this isn’t how intel works. PM seized on absence of one reason to re-submit nomination
Keir Starmer has written to Lord Bew of Holac asking it to make two unprecedented decisions: review Lebedev’s peerage, publish its advice to the PM
Marina Litvinenko also calls for review
Lebedev refused to comment at all but on Friday denied being a national security risk
Parked for now. But once the Ukraine war is in a new phase, hard to see how he explains this away to MPs.
Whether or not there has been any advantage for Russia due to the relationship it does demonstrate the Boris has terrible judgement at times. Hopefully he won't be in the job for much longer.
Parked for now. But once the Ukraine war is in a new phase, hard to see how he explains this away to MPs.
Whether or not there has been any advantage for Russia due to the relationship it does demonstrate the Boris has terrible judgement at times. Hopefully he won't be in the job for much longer.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Parked for now. But once the Ukraine war is in a new phase, hard to see how he explains this away to MPs.
Whether or not there has been any advantage for Russia due to the relationship it does demonstrate the Boris has terrible judgement at times. Hopefully he won't be in the job for much longer.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
Parked for now. But once the Ukraine war is in a new phase, hard to see how he explains this away to MPs.
Whether or not there has been any advantage for Russia due to the relationship it does demonstrate the Boris has terrible judgement at times. Hopefully he won't be in the job for much longer.
Only at times?
He's best modelled as a random walk.
There's a typo in that last word. You hit 'l' when you were trying for 'n.'
Just because Boris Johnson is bezzies with Lebedev Senior the KGB man, and skipped his security service briefing in the immediate aftermath of the Salisbury poisoning scandal to go see him, and overruled the long-standing objections of the security service about Lebedev and his son whose money all comes from his dad the KGB man.
Its a Westminster bubble non-story pushed by whining woke remoaners who want to flood the country with asylum-seeking Ukrainian terrorists.Its disgusting to suggest the Prime Minister - close friends with the KGB - has a problem he needs to answer for. How unpatriotic to suggest so.
Has there ever been a discussion about trans without it descending into accusations of bigotry? I hate to "both sides" it, but both sides have a problem.
But there aren't two sides, are there? I suppose I am what a mindless gammon like @kyf_100 would call anti-trans, but what I am against is opportunistic shits pretending to be trans and screwing things up for women and for the genuinely trans.
Both sides have legitimate and persuasive positions, and I do not intend to endorse or reject either. But it's really not so helpful when discussions immediately descend into accusations of intolerance. It's a particularly bad debate because both sides tend to have a hair trigger for doing it.
I still don't see that there are two sides. Are there two sides to the racist/anti-racist debate? Nobody morally sane could be "against" trans people, but there's some tedious but very necessary qualifications that need to be made over safety, over the making of irreversible choices by the young, and over sport. The End.
"The End"? Oh, that's a pity, I had more to say. How lucky for you "The End" came just at the moment you stopped speaking.
Obviously could also taint a few other people, if Boris knew these concerns back nearly 10 years ago, seems unlikely George Osborne wouldn't.
Osborne is completely irrelevant now. He is an ex-chancellor and failed newspaper editor. He will never hold political power again.
Likewise Mandelson is yesterday's man.
Johnson is currently the PM. Any mud will stick to him for that reason alone.
Well Mandelson is advising Starmer....and at one point it was suggested Osborne might fancy coming back
And I might fancy a date with Maria Sharapova but that ain't happening either.
'Advising the LOTO' is a long way from 'being the PM.' However much Mandelson is a hate figure for the media, they will definitely find Johnson being accused of treason more newsworthy.
Obviously could also taint a few other people, if Boris knew these concerns back nearly 10 years ago, seems unlikely George Osborne wouldn't.
Osborne is completely irrelevant now. He is an ex-chancellor and failed newspaper editor. He will never hold political power again.
Likewise Mandelson is yesterday's man.
Johnson is currently the PM. Any mud will stick to him for that reason alone.
Well Mandelson is advising Starmer....and at one point it was suggested Osborne might fancy coming back
Nah, he's got a new kid, he's earning squillions, and the fact the current version of the Tory party isn't his type of Tory party means he's not coming back to politics.
Has there ever been a discussion about trans without it descending into accusations of bigotry? I hate to "both sides" it, but both sides have a problem.
But there aren't two sides, are there? I suppose I am what a mindless gammon like @kyf_100 would call anti-trans, but what I am against is opportunistic shits pretending to be trans and screwing things up for women and for the genuinely trans.
Both sides have legitimate and persuasive positions, and I do not intend to endorse or reject either. But it's really not so helpful when discussions immediately descend into accusations of intolerance. It's a particularly bad debate because both sides tend to have a hair trigger for doing it.
I still don't see that there are two sides. Are there two sides to the racist/anti-racist debate? Nobody morally sane could be "against" trans people, but there's some tedious but very necessary qualifications that need to be made over safety, over the making of irreversible choices by the young, and over sport. The End.
"The End"? Oh, that's a pity, I had more to say. How lucky for you "The End" came just at the moment you stopped speaking.
OK, you have the floor.
No, it's all yours. I don't care enough about this to get in a fight about it. And it's dinner time.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
A rabbi involved in the certification process that enabled Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich to obtain Portuguese citizenship has been detained by police and told he cannot leave the country, reports say.
Daniel Litvak, the leader of Porto's Jewish community, is being held as part of an investigation into possible cases of corruption, money laundering and tax evasion, Portuguese news agency Lusa reports
I thought Roman got Cypriot citizenship, when the UK wouldn't extend his visa, so why did he need another EU passport?
As I recall, the Evening Standard was always an enthusiastic supporter of Boris Johnson as Mayor and endorsed the Conservatives in the 2010 and 2015 elections under David Cameron.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
There's been nothing but angry abuse from you for some weeks now. Give your head a shake, you're not really adding anything to anyone's lives here.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
There's been nothing but angry abuse from you for some weeks now. Give your head a shake, you're not really adding anything to anyone's lives here.
Why don't you fuck off you moronic pompous thick cretin. Do you read the crap you post or are you just so thick you think you are being nice and pleasant. An obnoxious arsehole extrodinaire.
A rabbi involved in the certification process that enabled Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich to obtain Portuguese citizenship has been detained by police and told he cannot leave the country, reports say.
Daniel Litvak, the leader of Porto's Jewish community, is being held as part of an investigation into possible cases of corruption, money laundering and tax evasion, Portuguese news agency Lusa reports
I thought Roman got Cypriot citizenship, when the UK wouldn't extend his visa, so why did he need another EU passport?
Perhaps having a Cypriot passport leads to issues when visiting Turkey and Greece?
Has there ever been a discussion about trans without it descending into accusations of bigotry? I hate to "both sides" it, but both sides have a problem.
But there aren't two sides, are there? I suppose I am what a mindless gammon like @kyf_100 would call anti-trans, but what I am against is opportunistic shits pretending to be trans and screwing things up for women and for the genuinely trans.
Both sides have legitimate and persuasive positions, and I do not intend to endorse or reject either. But it's really not so helpful when discussions immediately descend into accusations of intolerance. It's a particularly bad debate because both sides tend to have a hair trigger for doing it.
I still don't see that there are two sides. Are there two sides to the racist/anti-racist debate? Nobody morally sane could be "against" trans people, but there's some tedious but very necessary qualifications that need to be made over safety, over the making of irreversible choices by the young, and over sport. The End.
"The End"? Oh, that's a pity, I had more to say. How lucky for you "The End" came just at the moment you stopped speaking.
OK, you have the floor.
No, it's all yours. I don't care enough about this to get in a fight about it. And it's dinner time.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
There's been nothing but angry abuse from you for some weeks now. Give your head a shake, you're not really adding anything to anyone's lives here.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
There's been nothing but angry abuse from you for some weeks now. Give your head a shake, you're not really adding anything to anyone's lives here.
Why don't you fuck off you moronic pompous thick cretin. Do you read the crap you post or are you just so thick you think you are being nice and pleasant. An obnoxious arsehole extrodinaire.
A rabbi involved in the certification process that enabled Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich to obtain Portuguese citizenship has been detained by police and told he cannot leave the country, reports say.
Daniel Litvak, the leader of Porto's Jewish community, is being held as part of an investigation into possible cases of corruption, money laundering and tax evasion, Portuguese news agency Lusa reports
I thought Roman got Cypriot citizenship, when the UK wouldn't extend his visa, so why did he need another EU passport?
Perhaps having a Cypriot passport leads to issues when visiting Turkey and Greece?
He is so high profile i doubt nobody is going to realise just because he got himself a Portuguese one.
I presume perhaps worried about the scandal behind how all those cypriot passports were given out, but now wrapped up ina scandal of how Portuguese passports given out.
So we get to the Utility shortlist, which is the Damnation, the Japanese Spitz, miniature and toy poodles, Chow Chow, small German Spitz, the Shar Pei, and the tibetan spaniel
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
In light of a conversation I was having with my father, who used to run an exchange programme with Estonia:
How are Russians in Estonia reacting to what's happening?
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
You are talking to someone who thinks the 7 bridge problem reduces to/is an instance of the travelling salesman problem.
That's a problem in topology, vs a problem about minimising distances.
Probably the dimmest bit of idiocy seen on this site since the demise of the much lamented @Ash.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
Right or wrong those arguments may be. I didn't get upset because of your thoughts, but rather the manner in which you expressed them.
You know full well that you're being wildly abusive, and unthinkingly so. It's the unthinking bit that really gets my goat. I doubt I'm alone in this and I doubt you think I'm alone in this.
Has there ever been a discussion about trans without it descending into accusations of bigotry? I hate to "both sides" it, but both sides have a problem.
But there aren't two sides, are there? I suppose I am what a mindless gammon like @kyf_100 would call anti-trans, but what I am against is opportunistic shits pretending to be trans and screwing things up for women and for the genuinely trans.
Both sides have legitimate and persuasive positions, and I do not intend to endorse or reject either. But it's really not so helpful when discussions immediately descend into accusations of intolerance. It's a particularly bad debate because both sides tend to have a hair trigger for doing it.
I still don't see that there are two sides. Are there two sides to the racist/anti-racist debate? Nobody morally sane could be "against" trans people, but there's some tedious but very necessary qualifications that need to be made over safety, over the making of irreversible choices by the young, and over sport. The End.
"The End"? Oh, that's a pity, I had more to say. How lucky for you "The End" came just at the moment you stopped speaking.
OK, you have the floor.
No, it's all yours. I don't care enough about this to get in a fight about it. And it's dinner time.
Has there ever been a discussion about trans without it descending into accusations of bigotry? I hate to "both sides" it, but both sides have a problem.
But there aren't two sides, are there? I suppose I am what a mindless gammon like @kyf_100 would call anti-trans, but what I am against is opportunistic shits pretending to be trans and screwing things up for women and for the genuinely trans.
Both sides have legitimate and persuasive positions, and I do not intend to endorse or reject either. But it's really not so helpful when discussions immediately descend into accusations of intolerance. It's a particularly bad debate because both sides tend to have a hair trigger for doing it.
I still don't see that there are two sides. Are there two sides to the racist/anti-racist debate? Nobody morally sane could be "against" trans people, but there's some tedious but very necessary qualifications that need to be made over safety, over the making of irreversible choices by the young, and over sport. The End.
"The End"? Oh, that's a pity, I had more to say. How lucky for you "The End" came just at the moment you stopped speaking.
OK, you have the floor.
No, it's all yours. I don't care enough about this to get in a fight about it. And it's dinner time.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
Right or wrong those arguments may be. I didn't get upset because of your thoughts, but rather the manner in which you expressed them.
You know full well that you're being wildly abusive, and unthinkingly so. It's the unthinking bit that really gets my goat. I doubt I'm alone in this and I doubt you think I'm alone in this.
What are you on about , I said women's rights should be protected and men should not have unfettered access to women's safe places. What is abusive about that. Why would you trash the rights of 50% of the population for the imagined slight of a very tiny minority whose rights are not being harmed at all.
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
The only thing that spoils your generally excellent posts is your partisanship.
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
Another quite superb post, my friend.
To be fair, there were some heartwarming scenes of Berliners coming out to help refugees arriving at the main rail station. As for the UK, yes we can take our share but we can also do all we can to support those countries taking the bulk of the refugees such as Poland both financially and with infrastructure.
We can but hope this doesn't become a Ukrainian Diaspora and that their enforced exile is temporary and that means again money to rebuild the damage caused by Putin - I suppose we should get the Russian oligarchs to pay up but, in lieu of selling their yachts and their London properties to fund the reconstruction, we should do as we can to help Ukraine once again become a prosperous country.
Has there ever been a discussion about trans without it descending into accusations of bigotry? I hate to "both sides" it, but both sides have a problem.
But there aren't two sides, are there? I suppose I am what a mindless gammon like @kyf_100 would call anti-trans, but what I am against is opportunistic shits pretending to be trans and screwing things up for women and for the genuinely trans.
Both sides have legitimate and persuasive positions, and I do not intend to endorse or reject either. But it's really not so helpful when discussions immediately descend into accusations of intolerance. It's a particularly bad debate because both sides tend to have a hair trigger for doing it.
I still don't see that there are two sides. Are there two sides to the racist/anti-racist debate? Nobody morally sane could be "against" trans people, but there's some tedious but very necessary qualifications that need to be made over safety, over the making of irreversible choices by the young, and over sport. The End.
"The End"? Oh, that's a pity, I had more to say. How lucky for you "The End" came just at the moment you stopped speaking.
OK, you have the floor.
No, it's all yours. I don't care enough about this to get in a fight about it. And it's dinner time.
You: I have more to say
Me: So say it
You: I have no more to say
Fine
The guy is a Fcukwit of the first order
Looking in the mirror again?
I know you are, but what am I?
Come on guys, PB is better than this
Yeah, wind necks back in. If you get in the way of live-blogging the Crufts winners, it will be ban-hammer time.....
Has there ever been a discussion about trans without it descending into accusations of bigotry? I hate to "both sides" it, but both sides have a problem.
But there aren't two sides, are there? I suppose I am what a mindless gammon like @kyf_100 would call anti-trans, but what I am against is opportunistic shits pretending to be trans and screwing things up for women and for the genuinely trans.
Both sides have legitimate and persuasive positions, and I do not intend to endorse or reject either. But it's really not so helpful when discussions immediately descend into accusations of intolerance. It's a particularly bad debate because both sides tend to have a hair trigger for doing it.
I still don't see that there are two sides. Are there two sides to the racist/anti-racist debate? Nobody morally sane could be "against" trans people, but there's some tedious but very necessary qualifications that need to be made over safety, over the making of irreversible choices by the young, and over sport. The End.
"The End"? Oh, that's a pity, I had more to say. How lucky for you "The End" came just at the moment you stopped speaking.
OK, you have the floor.
No, it's all yours. I don't care enough about this to get in a fight about it. And it's dinner time.
Visegrád 24 @visegrad24 · 59m The Russian Central Bank has announced that Russia’s stock market will remain closed for the next week and a new decision will then be taken about whether to prolong it.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
Right or wrong those arguments may be. I didn't get upset because of your thoughts, but rather the manner in which you expressed them.
You know full well that you're being wildly abusive, and unthinkingly so. It's the unthinking bit that really gets my goat. I doubt I'm alone in this and I doubt you think I'm alone in this.
What are you on about , I said women's rights should be protected and men should not have unfettered access to women's safe places. What is abusive about that. Why would you trash the rights of 50% of the population for the imagined slight of a very tiny minority whose rights are not being harmed at all.
So we get to the Utility shortlist, which is the Damnation, the Japanese Spitz, miniature and toy poodles, Chow Chow, small German Spitz, the Shar Pei, and the tibetan spaniel
Dalmatian, but good autocorrect
But wtf is this Utility? What is the utility of a toy or miniature poodle, other than something to kick after a difficult day at the office? Or are these dogs suitable to be kept in the utility room?
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
The only thing that spoils your generally excellent posts is your partisanship.
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
The views of a now marginalised independent MP are irrelevant compared to the scandal of having a PM potentially tainted and compromised by his past relations with dodgy Russians
The only thing that spoils your generally excellent posts is your partisanship.
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
What would be the point? We had this from Sandbrook in another of his "what if" pieces in the Mail on Saturday just to remind us how lucky we are to have Johnson and (through gritted teeth) Biden in charge rather than (the wonderful but misunderstood) Trump and Corbyn (apparently).
As it was the Mail, we also had the obligatory double page bitch about Harry and Meghan.
Corbyn's not in power - he's never been in power. The Conservatives have been the leading party of Government since 2010 - if you want to "blame" anyone in Britain for empowering Putin's aggression, it's probably easier to look t those who've had the power rather than those who haven't (as the Sunday Times does).
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
Right or wrong those arguments may be. I didn't get upset because of your thoughts, but rather the manner in which you expressed them.
You know full well that you're being wildly abusive, and unthinkingly so. It's the unthinking bit that really gets my goat. I doubt I'm alone in this and I doubt you think I'm alone in this.
What are you on about , I said women's rights should be protected and men should not have unfettered access to women's safe places. What is abusive about that. Why would you trash the rights of 50% of the population for the imagined slight of a very tiny minority whose rights are not being harmed at all.
And that wasn't the comment I replied to.
well what are you on about then as that is all I commented about
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
The only thing that spoils your generally excellent posts is your partisanship.
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
The views of a now marginalised independent MP are irrelevant compared to the scandal of having a PM potentially tainted and compromised by his past relations with dodgy Russians
Perhaps but there's a strong strain of opinion on the Left that are still a big problem in opposing NATO and excusing Putin's aggression and @Cicero isn't exactly known for his even-handedness.
I will take him more seriously when he changes that.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
Right or wrong those arguments may be. I didn't get upset because of your thoughts, but rather the manner in which you expressed them.
You know full well that you're being wildly abusive, and unthinkingly so. It's the unthinking bit that really gets my goat. I doubt I'm alone in this and I doubt you think I'm alone in this.
What are you on about , I said women's rights should be protected and men should not have unfettered access to women's safe places. What is abusive about that. Why would you trash the rights of 50% of the population for the imagined slight of a very tiny minority whose rights are not being harmed at all.
And that wasn't the comment I replied to.
well what are you on about then as that is all I commented about
"Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
"In early 2016, with the EU referendum approaching, Lebedev was present for the evening when Johnson invited Michael Gove to his Islington home and the pair, in the company of their wives, Marina and Sarah, decided to back Brexit."
..is as fascinating as the confirmation that Alexander Dugin's "Foundations of Geopolitics" , which has been an officially approved military manual in the Russian command for twenty years now , stresses the importance of "separating Britain from Europe" ; as well as, on the American front, for example.. :
Within the United States itself, there is a need for the Russian special services and their allies "to provoke all forms of instability and separatism within the borders of the United States. "It is especially important," Dugin adds, "to introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements-- extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics" (367).
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
You are talking to someone who thinks the 7 bridge problem reduces to/is an instance of the travelling salesman problem.
That's a problem in topology, vs a problem about minimising distances.
Probably the dimmest bit of idiocy seen on this site since the demise of the much lamented @Ash.
Visegrád 24 @visegrad24 · 59m The Russian Central Bank has announced that Russia’s stock market will remain closed for the next week and a new decision will then be taken about whether to prolong it.
When it does reopen I suspect many in the west will be circling to buy the whole of Russian industry for about $50 the lot.
And there might be worse ways to destroy the Kremlin kleptocracy.
Visegrád 24 @visegrad24 · 59m The Russian Central Bank has announced that Russia’s stock market will remain closed for the next week and a new decision will then be taken about whether to prolong it.
When it does reopen I suspect many in the west will be circling to buy the whole of Russian industry for about $50 the lot.
And there might be worse ways to destroy the Kremlin kleptocracy.
There's a touching pitch/being defiled correlation to worry about. I mean how do you think the kleptocracy got their start?
The only thing that spoils your generally excellent posts is your partisanship.
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
What would be the point? We had this from Sandbrook in another of his "what if" pieces in the Mail on Saturday just to remind us how lucky we are to have Johnson and (through gritted teeth) Biden in charge rather than (the wonderful but misunderstood) Trump and Corbyn (apparently).
As it was the Mail, we also had the obligatory double page bitch about Harry and Meghan.
Corbyn's not in power - he's never been in power. The Conservatives have been the leading party of Government since 2010 - if you want to "blame" anyone in Britain for empowering Putin's aggression, it's probably easier to look t those who've had the power rather than those who haven't (as the Sunday Times does).
The (non) response to Salisbury was one of the things that most turned me against Corbyn. How can a wannabe prime minister be so disinterested in national security? I don't see it as sympathy for Putin though. Just general feebleness. I think Corbyn's real friends are in Cuba, Venezuela and Iran.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
You are talking to someone who thinks the 7 bridge problem reduces to/is an instance of the travelling salesman problem.
That's a problem in topology, vs a problem about minimising distances.
Probably the dimmest bit of idiocy seen on this site since the demise of the much lamented @Ash.
Graph theory is not topology!
Go on, explain why not.
Topology is in my view the maths of everything. I rather wish I could make sense of it
A rabbi involved in the certification process that enabled Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich to obtain Portuguese citizenship has been detained by police and told he cannot leave the country, reports say.
Daniel Litvak, the leader of Porto's Jewish community, is being held as part of an investigation into possible cases of corruption, money laundering and tax evasion, Portuguese news agency Lusa reports
I thought Roman got Cypriot citizenship, when the UK wouldn't extend his visa, so why did he need another EU passport?
Perhaps having a Cypriot passport leads to issues when visiting Turkey and Greece?
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
Right or wrong those arguments may be. I didn't get upset because of your thoughts, but rather the manner in which you expressed them.
You know full well that you're being wildly abusive, and unthinkingly so. It's the unthinking bit that really gets my goat. I doubt I'm alone in this and I doubt you think I'm alone in this.
What are you on about , I said women's rights should be protected and men should not have unfettered access to women's safe places. What is abusive about that. Why would you trash the rights of 50% of the population for the imagined slight of a very tiny minority whose rights are not being harmed at all.
And that wasn't the comment I replied to.
well what are you on about then as that is all I commented about
"Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out."
That's what I'm on about.
Is this unfair?
Mr goody two shoes throwing insults about willy nilly. You sound stark raving mad. If you don't like my posts pass them bye. If you are just going to post twaddle like that with no reference to the points in the post you need to get a grip. Try using a brain cell and point out the gaps in my argument on women's rights and I may listen. Just posting that verbal diahorrea is mindless. PS I am highlighting fact that I have no idea what you are on about but you certainly seem to have gotten your panties in a bunch big time. PPS: Reasonable attempt at the insulting though
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
You are talking to someone who thinks the 7 bridge problem reduces to/is an instance of the travelling salesman problem.
That's a problem in topology, vs a problem about minimising distances.
Probably the dimmest bit of idiocy seen on this site since the demise of the much lamented @Ash.
Graph theory is not topology!
Shit
I hate to quote wikipedia in this sort of context, but I am tired and want to have a bath, so
The Seven Bridges of Königsberg is a historically notable problem in mathematics. Its negative resolution by Leonhard Euler in 1736[1] laid the foundations of graph theory and prefigured the idea of topology.[2]
Let's agree though that the crucial point about both graph and topolgy theory is that they don't give a toss about real world shapes and distances.
Good effort by England too. But there is just not enough in this pitch. On day 5 3rd session that is just not good for test cricket.
Really? It may well not have been the best prepared pitch, but a Test match that goes to the fifth day and is winnable (even if not, ultimately, won) in the final session isn't a bad match. I mean, ideally you're looking for doubt late on the fourth and on the fifth day. The rather boring matches are those which are only going one way from stumps on the first day.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
Right or wrong those arguments may be. I didn't get upset because of your thoughts, but rather the manner in which you expressed them.
You know full well that you're being wildly abusive, and unthinkingly so. It's the unthinking bit that really gets my goat. I doubt I'm alone in this and I doubt you think I'm alone in this.
What are you on about , I said women's rights should be protected and men should not have unfettered access to women's safe places. What is abusive about that. Why would you trash the rights of 50% of the population for the imagined slight of a very tiny minority whose rights are not being harmed at all.
And that wasn't the comment I replied to.
well what are you on about then as that is all I commented about
"Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out."
That's what I'm on about.
Is this unfair?
Mr goody two shoes throwing insults about willy nilly. You sound stark raving mad. If you don't like my posts pass them bye. If you are just going to post twaddle like that with no reference to the points in the post you need to get a grip. Try using a brain cell and point out the gaps in my argument on women's rights and I may listen. Just posting that verbal diahorrea is mindless. PS I am highlighting fact that I have no idea what you are on about but you certainly seem to have gotten your panties in a bunch big time.
"Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
There is little point having security services if their advice is ignored. The Tories have an absolute brass neck calling themselves the patriotic party. There is nothing remotely patriotic about selling themselves and the country to people who do not have our best interests at heart.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
You are talking to someone who thinks the 7 bridge problem reduces to/is an instance of the travelling salesman problem.
That's a problem in topology, vs a problem about minimising distances.
Probably the dimmest bit of idiocy seen on this site since the demise of the much lamented @Ash.
Graph theory is not topology!
Go on, explain why not.
Topology is in my view the maths of everything. I rather wish I could make sense of it
Fail
I don't know where you got that from, but if you are capable of the 7 bridges/TS problem conflation, you don't actually understand it any better than a mynah bird repeating it.
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
The only thing that spoils your generally excellent posts is your partisanship.
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
Happy to criticise Corbyn, who was utterly spineless (at best) but in this case we have to follow the money, and I´m afraid it is Farage and various Conservatives and one or two ScotNats who have most to blame. It is insidious and dangerous and when this is over, we need to completely clean up our act.
Good effort by England too. But there is just not enough in this pitch. On day 5 3rd session that is just not good for test cricket.
Really? It may well not have been the best prepared pitch, but a Test match that goes to the fifth day and is winnable (even if not, ultimately, won) in the final session isn't a bad match. I mean, ideally you're looking for doubt late on the fourth and on the fifth day. The rather boring matches are those which are only going one way from stumps on the first day.
The only time wickets fell rapidly in this match was when England tried to up the rate. If you play safe it is safe. That’s not great.
Pele, Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo have all been greater players than Maradona. Plus whatever greatness Maradona achieved was with the help of performance enhancing drugs.
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
The only thing that spoils your generally excellent posts is your partisanship.
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
Happy to criticise Corbyn, who was utterly spineless (at best) but in this case we have to follow the money, and I´m afraid it is Farage and various Conservatives and one or two ScotNats who have most to blame. It is insidious and dangerous and when this is over, we need to completely clean up our act.
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
In light of a conversation I was having with my father, who used to run an exchange programme with Estonia:
How are Russians in Estonia reacting to what's happening?
Mostly horrified, For the time being I would say it has brought different communities togetehr somewhat, but we will see how things develop,
The only thing that spoils your generally excellent posts is your partisanship.
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
What would be the point? We had this from Sandbrook in another of his "what if" pieces in the Mail on Saturday just to remind us how lucky we are to have Johnson and (through gritted teeth) Biden in charge rather than (the wonderful but misunderstood) Trump and Corbyn (apparently).
As it was the Mail, we also had the obligatory double page bitch about Harry and Meghan.
Corbyn's not in power - he's never been in power. The Conservatives have been the leading party of Government since 2010 - if you want to "blame" anyone in Britain for empowering Putin's aggression, it's probably easier to look t those who've had the power rather than those who haven't (as the Sunday Times does).
In that case I'll blame Ed Miliband for thwarting tough action against Syria in 2013 over its use of chemical weapons, which emboldened Putin, and Corbyn for providing succour over the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks in 2018, which emboldened Putin.
Fellow Lib Dems gonna defend a fellow Lib Dem but you can't have it both ways.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
You are talking to someone who thinks the 7 bridge problem reduces to/is an instance of the travelling salesman problem.
That's a problem in topology, vs a problem about minimising distances.
Probably the dimmest bit of idiocy seen on this site since the demise of the much lamented @Ash.
Graph theory is not topology!
Go on, explain why not.
Topology is in my view the maths of everything. I rather wish I could make sense of it
Fail
I don't know where you got that from, but if you are capable of the 7 bridges/TS problem conflation, you don't actually understand it any better than a mynah bird repeating it.
Maybe.
Topology tells us how to conect stuff. Thus all of maths and all of life must be about topology. 7 bridges is a connectivity probelm, but the same applies to the travelling salesman if you weight the paths as one.
Pele, Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo have all been greater players than Maradona. Plus whatever greatness Maradona achieved was with the help of performance enhancing drugs.
Pele, Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo have all been greater players than Maradona. Plus whatever greatness Maradona achieved was with the help of performance enhancing drugs.
Far be it for me to stand up for that little thug, but there's no drug that makes you play like Maradona did.
I think his failed drug test came at the end of his career when he was probably struggling for fitness.
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
In light of a conversation I was having with my father, who used to run an exchange programme with Estonia:
How are Russians in Estonia reacting to what's happening?
Mostly horrified, For the time being I would say it has brought different communities togetehr somewhat, but we will see how things develop,
Thank you. That's what he thought would be happening, but he'll be glad to have it confirmed.
Things are getting quite difficult here in Tallinn, There is very little room to house refugees: hotels are full, Now discussions of opening schools and lots of people taking in refugees into their homes. Already there are twice the number Estonia thought they could cope with, and if we have it bad, Poland is taking in tens of thousands every day. At least 1.7 million now in Poland alone and now the forecast is maybe at total of 7 million. The UK needs to get its act together, every country in Europe is trying to help and larger countries like Britain can not just turn their backs. Putin is using terror as a weapon to create this refugee crisis and if we are not prepared to defend the Ukrainians ourselves the minimum must surely be to help the victims of this senseless and criminal war.
As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
The only thing that spoils your generally excellent posts is your partisanship.
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
Happy to criticise Corbyn, who was utterly spineless (at best) but in this case we have to follow the money, and I´m afraid it is Farage and various Conservatives and one or two ScotNats who have most to blame. It is insidious and dangerous and when this is over, we need to completely clean up our act.
» show previous quotes bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
(This was my post although Malcolm hasn't attributed as such.)
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Fail to see why upset , letting men have unfettered access to women's safe places is abominable and cannot be supported by any right thinking person. Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period. If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
You are talking to someone who thinks the 7 bridge problem reduces to/is an instance of the travelling salesman problem.
That's a problem in topology, vs a problem about minimising distances.
Probably the dimmest bit of idiocy seen on this site since the demise of the much lamented @Ash.
Graph theory is not topology!
Go on, explain why not.
Topology is in my view the maths of everything. I rather wish I could make sense of it
Fail
I don't know where you got that from, but if you are capable of the 7 bridges/TS problem conflation, you don't actually understand it any better than a mynah bird repeating it.
Maybe.
Topology tells us how to conect stuff. Thus all of maths and all of life must be about topology. 7 bridges is a connectivity probelm, but the same applies to the travelling salesman if you weight the paths as one.
Just as you don't have a three body problem if you take one of the bodies away.
Visegrád 24 @visegrad24 · 59m The Russian Central Bank has announced that Russia’s stock market will remain closed for the next week and a new decision will then be taken about whether to prolong it.
When it does reopen I suspect many in the west will be circling to buy the whole of Russian industry for about $50 the lot.
And there might be worse ways to destroy the Kremlin kleptocracy.
Far more likely that Chinese investors pick up large stakes in Russian industry. They won't have to wait for the eventual reopening of the Russian economy.
Comments
Like Man Utd, remarkably.
Ronaldo!
Great game
EXCLUSIVE w/@harryyorke1
The head of MI6 had concerns about Boris Johnson’s friend Evgeny Lebedev almost a decade ago
In 2013, Sir John Sawers repeatedly rejected bid by KGB agent’s son to meet at MI6 HQ
No10 doesn't deny PM knew about incident
Lebedev instructed editor of the Independent, a paper he owned, to get him access to lunch with MI6 chief
Sawers refused, said he'd play no role in Lebedev campaign to infiltrate the establishment
Lebedev pushed back. MI6, aware of significant risks in meeting him, held firm
At the time, Johnson was building a close friendship with Lebedev
The incident was relayed to his most senior aides. One said it’s implausible he didn’t know too
But then London mayor kept seeing Lebedev, repeatedly visiting his villa and castle in Italy
New docs show Johnson opened doors of City Hall to Lebedev, who pitched festival with “substantial support” from Kremlin
He said he’d be “thrilled” if Lebedev’s papers could cover him positively
And he received £7k of flights, accommodation and private cars in three years
During this time Lebedev closely mirrored Putin positions
He suggested MI6 may have killed Alexander Litvinenko, played down invasion of Crimea, said Putin showed leadership in Syria
He said Russians thanked Putin for “unimaginable freedoms, “regained sense of national pride"
Fast Forward to 2019: Johnson said he wanted to give a peerage to Lebedev immediately after becoming PM
One former aide said he was “pathological” about it
Another believed it was a joke at first but said Johnson was determined
In March 2020, House of Lords Appointments Commission advised Johnson against nominating Lebedev
Peers cited national security concerns raised by British intelligence
Per source, PM reacted with disbelief, suggesting Lebedev couldn’t possibly be a risk
He then instructed officials to challenge intelligence assessment,
PM had rejected their analysis and wanted a specific reason why he couldn’t nominate Lebedev
Civil servant says this isn’t how intel works. PM seized on absence of one reason to re-submit nomination
Keir Starmer has written to Lord Bew of Holac asking it to make two unprecedented decisions: review Lebedev’s peerage, publish its advice to the PM
Marina Litvinenko also calls for review
Lebedev refused to comment at all but on Friday denied being a national security risk
https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1502707326452654085
Anyway insane paradox, but the fact we are virtually at war with Russia will thoroughly detract from the fact that the PM is a Russian spy. NTSH, MA.
Boris Johnson is the Roger Hollis de nos jours.
One former aide said he was “pathological” about it
Another believed it was a joke at first but said Johnson was determined"
is worth a stand-alone excerpt.
malcolmg said:
» show previous quotes
bollox argument from you, if even one of them is a deviant it is one too many.
Just shut the fuck up Malcolm. Enlessly you convery a slime trail of poison. I and others have repeatedly tried to pick the good from the bad in your character. There is good, i'll admit. The efforts though have been wildly misplaced. I've had enough. You're an arse of the first rank, you are irresponsible beyond measure, and you're thick as a plank.
Let me know if I've left anything out.
The truth upsetting you sunshine.
Likewise Mandelson is yesterday's man.
Johnson is currently the PM. Any mud will stick to him for that reason alone.
No, you are upsetting me. Sort yourself out.
Its a Westminster bubble non-story pushed by whining woke remoaners who want to flood the country with asylum-seeking Ukrainian terrorists.Its disgusting to suggest the Prime Minister - close friends with the KGB - has a problem he needs to answer for. How unpatriotic to suggest so.
'Advising the LOTO' is a long way from 'being the PM.' However much Mandelson is a hate figure for the media, they will definitely find Johnson being accused of treason more newsworthy.
He's done his stint.
Me: So say it
You: I have no more to say
Fine
Anyone supporting it is not right in the head period.
If you think so , really sort yourself out. Trampling women's rights is far from funny.
Daniel Litvak, the leader of Porto's Jewish community, is being held as part of an investigation into possible cases of corruption, money laundering and tax evasion, Portuguese news agency Lusa reports
I thought Roman got Cypriot citizenship, when the UK wouldn't extend his visa, so why did he need another EU passport?
The title of the thread
Says, wrongly, Lebeved.
An obnoxious arsehole extrodinaire.
I presume perhaps worried about the scandal behind how all those cypriot passports were given out, but now wrapped up ina scandal of how Portuguese passports given out.
bribe the committeesupport the dignity of the office.As for British right wing politicians´ relationships with the Siloviki, we should note that many people warned about this a long time ago. As people here know well, I am particularly contemptuous of those like Banks, Farage, or Rees Mogg among others (and Alex Salmond, I may add), who have had close financial relationships with Russia, even when it was quite clear what kind of regime Putin leads. As for Johnson, he too was warned. At the very least all of them should disclose the precise nature of their dealings with those close to the Russian regime. However that will needs must be after this crisis abates, for now we must concentrate on saving as much as we can in Ukraine and weakening the Putin regime with all the tools we have. This does not end for at least as long as VVP leads Russia.
The (revolting) toy poodle from Blackpool. Chow chow is runner up
How are Russians in Estonia reacting to what's happening?
That's a problem in topology, vs a problem about minimising distances.
Probably the dimmest bit of idiocy seen on this site since the demise of the much lamented @Ash.
You know full well that you're being wildly abusive, and unthinkingly so. It's the unthinking bit that really gets my goat. I doubt I'm alone in this and I doubt you think I'm alone in this.
Come on guys, PB is better than this
I'm yet to see any criticism of Jeremy Corbyn or his ilk, who spent months apologising and whatabouting for the Salisbury chemical weapons attacks.
To be fair, there were some heartwarming scenes of Berliners coming out to help refugees arriving at the main rail station. As for the UK, yes we can take our share but we can also do all we can to support those countries taking the bulk of the refugees such as Poland both financially and with infrastructure.
We can but hope this doesn't become a Ukrainian Diaspora and that their enforced exile is temporary and that means again money to rebuild the damage caused by Putin - I suppose we should get the Russian oligarchs to pay up but, in lieu of selling their yachts and their London properties to fund the reconstruction, we should do as we can to help Ukraine once again become a prosperous country.
Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·
59m
The Russian Central Bank has announced that Russia’s stock market will remain closed for the next week and a new decision will then be taken about whether to prolong it.
But wtf is this Utility? What is the utility of a toy or miniature poodle, other than something to kick after a difficult day at the office? Or are these dogs suitable to be kept in the utility room?
As it was the Mail, we also had the obligatory double page bitch about Harry and Meghan.
Corbyn's not in power - he's never been in power. The Conservatives have been the leading party of Government since 2010 - if you want to "blame" anyone in Britain for empowering Putin's aggression, it's probably easier to look t those who've had the power rather than those who haven't (as the Sunday Times does).
But Messi was better.
I will take him more seriously when he changes that.
Let me know if I've left anything out."
That's what I'm on about.
Is this unfair?
This section :
"In early 2016, with the EU referendum approaching, Lebedev was present for the evening when Johnson invited Michael Gove to his Islington home and the pair, in the company of their wives, Marina and Sarah, decided to back Brexit."
..is as fascinating as the confirmation that Alexander Dugin's "Foundations of Geopolitics" , which has been an officially approved military manual in the Russian command for twenty years now , stresses the importance of "separating Britain from Europe" ; as well as, on the American front, for example.. :
Within the United States itself, there is a need for the Russian special services and their allies "to provoke all forms of instability and separatism within the borders of the United States. "It is especially important," Dugin adds, "to introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements-- extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics" (367).
And there might be worse ways to destroy the Kremlin kleptocracy.
Somewhere there must be a reasonable compromise.
Topology is in my view the maths of everything. I rather wish I could make sense of it
Try using a brain cell and point out the gaps in my argument on women's rights and I may listen. Just posting that verbal diahorrea is mindless.
PS I am highlighting fact that I have no idea what you are on about but you certainly seem to have gotten your panties in a bunch big time.
PPS: Reasonable attempt at the insulting though
I hate to quote wikipedia in this sort of context, but I am tired and want to have a bath, so
The Seven Bridges of Königsberg is a historically notable problem in mathematics. Its negative resolution by Leonhard Euler in 1736[1] laid the foundations of graph theory and prefigured the idea of topology.[2]
Let's agree though that the crucial point about both graph and topolgy theory is that they don't give a toss about real world shapes and distances.
Let me know if I've left anything out."
That's what I'm on about.
Is this unfair?
There is little point having security services if their advice is ignored. The Tories have an absolute brass neck calling themselves the patriotic party. There is nothing remotely patriotic about selling themselves and the country to people who do not have our best interests at heart.
- “Diego Maradona will forever be cherished by Scots for his 'Hand of God' moment in Mexico 1986, but his links with Scotland run much deeper.”
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55079634
I don't know where you got that from, but if you are capable of the 7 bridges/TS problem conflation, you don't actually understand it any better than a mynah bird repeating it.
@OpiniumResearch
@ObserverUK
poll shows a 2 point Labour lead, which has halved since a fortnight ago.
Con 35% (+1)
Lab 37% (-1)
Lib Dem 9% (-2)
Green 7% (+1)
https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1502736435064967168
Fellow Lib Dems gonna defend a fellow Lib Dem but you can't have it both ways.
Topology tells us how to conect stuff. Thus all of maths and all of life must be about topology. 7 bridges is a connectivity probelm, but the same applies to the travelling salesman if you weight the paths as one.
I think his failed drug test came at the end of his career when he was probably struggling for fitness.
Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 37% (-1)
CON: 35% (+1)
LDEM: 9% (-2)
GRN: 7% (+1)
via
@OpiniumResearch
Boris 28%
Starmer 15%
Not great figures for either but just 15% on Starmer