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The Ukraine invasion could impact on the French election – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    edited March 2022
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is some question mark over the date, apparently. I’d have thought the weather conditions would make that puzzle easily

    Leon said:

    London Plague Recovery Update 629

    Walking up Charlotte St. Generally one of London’s most vibrant streets (“a man could be happy living on Charlotte Street” - Saul Bellow). I remember strolling down here in spring last year and it was desolate. Almost every bar and restaurant shuttered. Some in deep decay. I thought “this will never recover. Or it will take many years”

    It has recovered. Already. Apart from a small section above Goodge Street, all the premises are buzzing - either with customers, or the sounds of building work. Several places are brand new

    Highly encouraging. The resilience of cities. They can take a lot of punishment

    I was in town yesterday and walked from Liverpool Street to the West End in the spring sunshine. The amazing thing is how many interesting new businesses have sprung up, often in the place of dull chains that got the hell of out of dodge when the pandemic hit. I came to the conclusion that the reset might benefit London in the medium term. Emulation has been replaced with innovation upon her fair streets.
    Yes. Exactly my impression

    Lots of boring chain coffee shops and the like have disappeared. Replaced by “Mongolian wine bars” and “Nepalese bubble tea boutiques”

    So parts of london are actually looking MORE attractive and diverse than they did pre-plague
    I never had any doubt that London would bounce back. It has a vitality that can't be tamed. If the pandemic cleared out some boring businesses and boring people (moving to the sticks, not dying) so much the better. I am really looking forward to summer in the city, there is so much going on especially here in SE London.
    If anything it feels more youthful than before. It is the young who have flooded back. In numbers

    As they should
    Yeah, although everyone looks young to me these days! What London really needs is a property price reset to make it more affordable to the young, creative types etc but that doesn't seem imminent.
    Young creatives need to do what they've always done: descend on a cheaper, grimier part of town and gentrify the crap out of it.
    Trouble is, there literally aren't many areas like that left, anywhere near the centre. Lots of rubbish bits further out, but who wants to gentrify Edmonton or Wembley? To be a good candidate for gentrification you need lots of intriguing period buildings, and old industrial spaces, that can be spruced up, but also enough urban density and good transport for liveliness
    Wembley actually has reasonable opportunity at gentrification because of the international branding of the place, home of football etc.
    The home of Arsenal has been 100% gentrified. Woolwich workshop where it began is now this bar, and the arsenal a yuppie warren, or whatever the equivalent term now is. Annoyingly the artillery museum had to move out. Still not reopened somewhere in Wilts yet AFAIK

    https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4924599,0.0698648,3a,90y,7.6h,92.46t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNQV-m07SxiwNbYOr-N3xr8MHYj9J0YaLoyC5Qy!2e10!3e11!6shttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipNQV-m07SxiwNbYOr-N3xr8MHYj9J0YaLoyC5Qy=w203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya113.95182-ro-0-fo100!7i14000!8i7000
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152

    Leon said:

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    They have a point. It is no one's interest for a major business (and part of the EPL) to go bust, that doesn't benefit Putin it just harms the UK and London economies.

    There must be a way of allowing Chelsea to function as a business while denying income to Abramovich, until the mess can be sorted
    Abramovich Chelsea are a cancer on football and the UK, they must be expunged.
    I hope your view isn't influenced by the fact that were that to happen, Liverpool would be four points better off relative to Man City.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is some question mark over the date, apparently. I’d have thought the weather conditions would make that puzzle easily

    Leon said:

    London Plague Recovery Update 629

    Walking up Charlotte St. Generally one of London’s most vibrant streets (“a man could be happy living on Charlotte Street” - Saul Bellow). I remember strolling down here in spring last year and it was desolate. Almost every bar and restaurant shuttered. Some in deep decay. I thought “this will never recover. Or it will take many years”

    It has recovered. Already. Apart from a small section above Goodge Street, all the premises are buzzing - either with customers, or the sounds of building work. Several places are brand new

    Highly encouraging. The resilience of cities. They can take a lot of punishment

    I was in town yesterday and walked from Liverpool Street to the West End in the spring sunshine. The amazing thing is how many interesting new businesses have sprung up, often in the place of dull chains that got the hell of out of dodge when the pandemic hit. I came to the conclusion that the reset might benefit London in the medium term. Emulation has been replaced with innovation upon her fair streets.
    Yes. Exactly my impression

    Lots of boring chain coffee shops and the like have disappeared. Replaced by “Mongolian wine bars” and “Nepalese bubble tea boutiques”

    So parts of london are actually looking MORE attractive and diverse than they did pre-plague
    I never had any doubt that London would bounce back. It has a vitality that can't be tamed. If the pandemic cleared out some boring businesses and boring people (moving to the sticks, not dying) so much the better. I am really looking forward to summer in the city, there is so much going on especially here in SE London.
    If anything it feels more youthful than before. It is the young who have flooded back. In numbers

    As they should
    Yeah, although everyone looks young to me these days! What London really needs is a property price reset to make it more affordable to the young, creative types etc but that doesn't seem imminent.
    Young creatives need to do what they've always done: descend on a cheaper, grimier part of town and gentrify the crap out of it.
    … until they become “The Establishment”. And then…
    Blah. Blah. Blah. Yawn.
  • tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    They have a point. It is no one's interest for a major business (and part of the EPL) to go bust, that doesn't benefit Putin it just harms the UK and London economies.

    There must be a way of allowing Chelsea to function as a business while denying income to Abramovich, until the mess can be sorted
    Abramovich Chelsea are a cancer on football and the UK, they must be expunged.
    I hope your view isn't influenced by the fact that were that to happen, Liverpool would be four points better off relative to Man City.
    Nope, I've always been consistent on this.

    It was why I didn't want Trashcan Sinatra or China to own LFC.

    I said at the time that I would have preferred Liverpool to have gone into administration than have been bought out by China backed bid in 2010.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited March 2022
    Applicant said:

    The crucial bit of the question "to prevent Russia winning the war"....

    Practically all analysts think Russia will win out in the end, its a matter of how long, how much damage and destruction both sides inflict and what "winning" means i.e. does that mean Russia have replaced the government and nominally controlling all the major cities, but there still being an insurgency?

    Despite the amazing fight the Ukrainians are putting up, Russia are still moving forward, creeping forward inch by inch in some places, but in the South they are definitely "winning".
    In any case, the question doesn't ask anything about the West doing more.
    Just a 1/3 of voters saying the West is not doing nearly enough to stop Russia in Ukraine hardly suggests there is little great enthusiasm to do more
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is some question mark over the date, apparently. I’d have thought the weather conditions would make that puzzle easily

    Leon said:

    London Plague Recovery Update 629

    Walking up Charlotte St. Generally one of London’s most vibrant streets (“a man could be happy living on Charlotte Street” - Saul Bellow). I remember strolling down here in spring last year and it was desolate. Almost every bar and restaurant shuttered. Some in deep decay. I thought “this will never recover. Or it will take many years”

    It has recovered. Already. Apart from a small section above Goodge Street, all the premises are buzzing - either with customers, or the sounds of building work. Several places are brand new

    Highly encouraging. The resilience of cities. They can take a lot of punishment

    I was in town yesterday and walked from Liverpool Street to the West End in the spring sunshine. The amazing thing is how many interesting new businesses have sprung up, often in the place of dull chains that got the hell of out of dodge when the pandemic hit. I came to the conclusion that the reset might benefit London in the medium term. Emulation has been replaced with innovation upon her fair streets.
    Yes. Exactly my impression

    Lots of boring chain coffee shops and the like have disappeared. Replaced by “Mongolian wine bars” and “Nepalese bubble tea boutiques”

    So parts of london are actually looking MORE attractive and diverse than they did pre-plague
    I never had any doubt that London would bounce back. It has a vitality that can't be tamed. If the pandemic cleared out some boring businesses and boring people (moving to the sticks, not dying) so much the better. I am really looking forward to summer in the city, there is so much going on especially here in SE London.
    If anything it feels more youthful than before. It is the young who have flooded back. In numbers

    As they should
    Yeah, although everyone looks young to me these days! What London really needs is a property price reset to make it more affordable to the young, creative types etc but that doesn't seem imminent.
    Young creatives need to do what they've always done: descend on a cheaper, grimier part of town and gentrify the crap out of it.
    Trouble is, there literally aren't many areas like that left, anywhere near the centre. Lots of rubbish bits further out, but who wants to gentrify Edmonton or Wembley? To be a good candidate for gentrification you need lots of intriguing period buildings, and old industrial spaces, that can be spruced up, but also enough urban density and good transport for liveliness
    Wembley actually has reasonable opportunity at gentrification because of the international branding of the place, home of football etc.
    I'm not sure the scenes of riotous behaviour at last year's Euro final would encourage gentrification. I wouldn't want to live near Wembley Stadium.
    Wembley has a good chance of "Park at my House" side-income.

    Have they got around to the Russian owner of Bournemouth, yet?
    Wembley: "Piss in my Front Garden for free and without Asking", more like. And a No 2 for a bonus if they had vindaloos the previous night.
    There are far fewer games at Wembley than at any other football stadium in London.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,753

    March 10 (Reuters) - China has refused to supply Russian airlines with aircraft parts, an official at Russia's aviation authority was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying on Thursday, after Boeing (BA.N) and Airbus (AIR.PA) halted supply of components.

    Russia's aviation sector is being squeezed by Western sanctions over the invasion of Ukraine, with Russia's foreign ministry warning this week that the safety of Russian passenger flights was under threat


    https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-says-china-refuses-supply-aircraft-parts-after-sanctions-2022-03-10/

    So Russia might become a no-fly zone, at least for civilian airliners.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152

    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    They have a point. It is no one's interest for a major business (and part of the EPL) to go bust, that doesn't benefit Putin it just harms the UK and London economies.

    There must be a way of allowing Chelsea to function as a business while denying income to Abramovich, until the mess can be sorted
    Abramovich Chelsea are a cancer on football and the UK, they must be expunged.
    I hope your view isn't influenced by the fact that were that to happen, Liverpool would be four points better off relative to Man City.
    Nope, I've always been consistent on this.

    It was why I didn't want Trashcan Sinatra or China to own LFC.

    I said at the time that I would have preferred Liverpool to have gone into administration than have been bought out by China backed bid in 2010.
    I'm just grateful Usmanov didn't get hold of Arsenal (not that that excuses the despicable behaviour of our owners last year).

    I'm fairly sure Chelsea will complete this season. But they are going to have a very difficult time thereafter.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,389
    At least our armed forces aren't tied up in Afghanistan. That is one thing, I suppose.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is some question mark over the date, apparently. I’d have thought the weather conditions would make that puzzle easily

    Leon said:

    London Plague Recovery Update 629

    Walking up Charlotte St. Generally one of London’s most vibrant streets (“a man could be happy living on Charlotte Street” - Saul Bellow). I remember strolling down here in spring last year and it was desolate. Almost every bar and restaurant shuttered. Some in deep decay. I thought “this will never recover. Or it will take many years”

    It has recovered. Already. Apart from a small section above Goodge Street, all the premises are buzzing - either with customers, or the sounds of building work. Several places are brand new

    Highly encouraging. The resilience of cities. They can take a lot of punishment

    I was in town yesterday and walked from Liverpool Street to the West End in the spring sunshine. The amazing thing is how many interesting new businesses have sprung up, often in the place of dull chains that got the hell of out of dodge when the pandemic hit. I came to the conclusion that the reset might benefit London in the medium term. Emulation has been replaced with innovation upon her fair streets.
    Yes. Exactly my impression

    Lots of boring chain coffee shops and the like have disappeared. Replaced by “Mongolian wine bars” and “Nepalese bubble tea boutiques”

    So parts of london are actually looking MORE attractive and diverse than they did pre-plague
    I never had any doubt that London would bounce back. It has a vitality that can't be tamed. If the pandemic cleared out some boring businesses and boring people (moving to the sticks, not dying) so much the better. I am really looking forward to summer in the city, there is so much going on especially here in SE London.
    If anything it feels more youthful than before. It is the young who have flooded back. In numbers

    As they should
    Yeah, although everyone looks young to me these days! What London really needs is a property price reset to make it more affordable to the young, creative types etc but that doesn't seem imminent.
    Young creatives need to do what they've always done: descend on a cheaper, grimier part of town and gentrify the crap out of it.
    … until they become “The Establishment”. And then…
    Blah. Blah. Blah. Yawn.
    The supply of Old Foggies must be renewed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    They have a point. It is no one's interest for a major business (and part of the EPL) to go bust, that doesn't benefit Putin it just harms the UK and London economies.

    There must be a way of allowing Chelsea to function as a business while denying income to Abramovich, until the mess can be sorted
    Abramovich Chelsea are a cancer on football and the UK, they must be expunged.
    I hope your view isn't influenced by the fact that were that to happen, Liverpool would be four points better off relative to Man City.
    Nope, I've always been consistent on this.

    It was why I didn't want Trashcan Sinatra or China to own LFC.

    I said at the time that I would have preferred Liverpool to have gone into administration than have been bought out by China backed bid in 2010.
    I'm just grateful Usmanov didn't get hold of Arsenal (not that that excuses the despicable behaviour of our owners last year).

    I'm fairly sure Chelsea will complete this season. But they are going to have a very difficult time thereafter.
    I've got to believe that there are sufficient billionaires out there who will come and buy it. It was up for sale before this and now the buyer can expect a better price and perhaps government assistance.

    I would expect the announcement of a sale pretty soon.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    YouGov Welsh poll:

    Lab 41% (nc)
    Con 26% (nc)
    PC 13% (nc)
    LD 7% (+4)
    Ref 6% (-1)
    Grn 4% (-2)
    oth 3% (nc)

    (YouGov/ITV Cymru Wales/Wales Governance Centre; 1,086; 25 Feb-1 Mar 2022)
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,808
    edited March 2022

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    I am not sure it is a football argument but a pragmatic business investment one- No business in the future will court foreign investment in it if a precedent is set here that the UK government has a right to just force a closure of operations. That may be ok but is certianly isnt how the understanding of how business could operate before this ,even encouraged to
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    The crucial bit of the question "to prevent Russia winning the war"....

    Practically all analysts think Russia will win out in the end, its a matter of how long, how much damage and destruction both sides inflict and what "winning" means i.e. does that mean Russia have replaced the government and nominally controlling all the major cities, but there still being an insurgency?

    Despite the amazing fight the Ukrainians are putting up, Russia are still moving forward, creeping forward inch by inch in some places, but in the South they are definitely "winning".
    In any case, the question doesn't ask anything about the West doing more.
    Just a 1/3 of voters saying the West is not doing nearly enough to stop Russia in Ukraine hardly suggests there is little great enthusiasm to do more
    1/3 voters? That's nearly enough for a Commons majority.
    Well over, I think, on a 70% turnout. So he’s effectively saying the Tory voting block doesn't reflect the public mood. A new line for him.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I like the maps in this thread

    Jomini of the West
    @JominiW
    1/ Ukrainian Theater of War, Day 14: After two weeks of war, Russian forces continue employ indiscriminate attacks to demoralize Ukrainian political resolve and military resistance. This growing war of attrition has not changed Western opinion on intervention. #UkraineWar

    https://twitter.com/JominiW/status/1501822538514579461

    With the Russian's down to pulling in camper vans as troop transports I think ot is pretty generous to keep them marched up as mechanised infantry.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Twitter has now removed two of the three demonstrably false tweets by the Russian embassy in UK, saying they violated its rules.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1501977971221057549
  • The problem is that Mélenchon is a Corbyn lookalike who is just as compromised as Le Pen when it comes to his stance vis a vis Putin. Hollande has just said that Mélenchon may be a “useful vote”, in that he’s the front runner amongst the fissiparous left, but he weren’t be a “useful president”! He’s plateauing in recent polls.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,842
    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    They have a point. It is no one's interest for a major business (and part of the EPL) to go bust, that doesn't benefit Putin it just harms the UK and London economies.

    There must be a way of allowing Chelsea to function as a business while denying income to Abramovich, until the mess can be sorted
    Abramovich Chelsea are a cancer on football and the UK, they must be expunged.
    I hope your view isn't influenced by the fact that were that to happen, Liverpool would be four points better off relative to Man City.
    Nope, I've always been consistent on this.

    It was why I didn't want Trashcan Sinatra or China to own LFC.

    I said at the time that I would have preferred Liverpool to have gone into administration than have been bought out by China backed bid in 2010.
    I'm just grateful Usmanov didn't get hold of Arsenal (not that that excuses the despicable behaviour of our owners last year).

    I'm fairly sure Chelsea will complete this season. But they are going to have a very difficult time thereafter.
    I've got to believe that there are sufficient billionaires out there who will come and buy it. It was up for sale before this and now the buyer can expect a better price and perhaps government assistance.

    I would expect the announcement of a sale pretty soon.
    Isn't the problem that the sanctions mean it cannot be sold at all?
    I'm not sure I thought I saw one report which said it could be but with nothing to go to Abramovich (of course the club owes him £1.5bn).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    They have a point. It is no one's interest for a major business (and part of the EPL) to go bust, that doesn't benefit Putin it just harms the UK and London economies.

    There must be a way of allowing Chelsea to function as a business while denying income to Abramovich, until the mess can be sorted
    Abramovich Chelsea are a cancer on football and the UK, they must be expunged.
    I hope your view isn't influenced by the fact that were that to happen, Liverpool would be four points better off relative to Man City.
    Nope, I've always been consistent on this.

    It was why I didn't want Trashcan Sinatra or China to own LFC.

    I said at the time that I would have preferred Liverpool to have gone into administration than have been bought out by China backed bid in 2010.
    I'm just grateful Usmanov didn't get hold of Arsenal (not that that excuses the despicable behaviour of our owners last year).

    I'm fairly sure Chelsea will complete this season. But they are going to have a very difficult time thereafter.
    I've got to believe that there are sufficient billionaires out there who will come and buy it. It was up for sale before this and now the buyer can expect a better price and perhaps government assistance.

    I would expect the announcement of a sale pretty soon.
    What's changed today is that the government will have to sign-off on any sale. Who knows where Roman was going to send the money if he'd sold it before today? And who knows how fussy our government will be?
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    They have a point. It is no one's interest for a major business (and part of the EPL) to go bust, that doesn't benefit Putin it just harms the UK and London economies.

    There must be a way of allowing Chelsea to function as a business while denying income to Abramovich, until the mess can be sorted
    Abramovich Chelsea are a cancer on football and the UK, they must be expunged.
    I hope your view isn't influenced by the fact that were that to happen, Liverpool would be four points better off relative to Man City.
    Nope, I've always been consistent on this.

    It was why I didn't want Trashcan Sinatra or China to own LFC.

    I said at the time that I would have preferred Liverpool to have gone into administration than have been bought out by China backed bid in 2010.
    I'm just grateful Usmanov didn't get hold of Arsenal (not that that excuses the despicable behaviour of our owners last year).

    I'm fairly sure Chelsea will complete this season. But they are going to have a very difficult time thereafter.
    Reading between the lines, these sanctions are in place until the war is over/Russia withdraws from Ukraine.

    I suspect that won't happen before the start of the next season which as you say means a very difficult time for them.

    To play in Europe you need a licence from UEFA and I think Chelsea may not be eligible to pay in UEFA club competitions.

    https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/protecting-the-game/club-licensing/
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    Evening all :)

    After all the hiatus and the nonsense, it now looks as those the French Presidential election of 2022 will be a re-run of 2017. Macron and Le Pen through to the run off.

    Macron now polls at or just above 30% but Le Pen's vote has stabilised at 17-18% and she now has clear water over Zemmour, Pecresse and Melenchon who are all in the low double digits.

    Famous last words of course.

    On a completely unrelated, the passenger transport numbers are always worth a look. Rail passenger numbers returned to 72-75% of pre-Covid during the week beginning 14/2. I do wonder if that was half term leisure traffic augmenting commuter traffic as the following week the numbers were back to 60% Monday to Thursday but last week (w/b 28/2) the numbers perked up again to 64-67% through the week so for every three passengers before the virus, there are two now. That would suggest the hybrid pattern of work is taking hold.

    Passenger numbers on the Underground last week were badly skewed by the strikes but the previous week numbers were in the mid-60s (Monday 59%). More encouraging, weekend numbers were 85% of pre-Covid suggesting leisure traffic is still strong.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    edited March 2022
    Following Abramovich being sanctioned it’s hard to see how the league can continue to view him as a fit and proper person isn’t it? Any implications if that happens?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    HYUFD said:

    Given Melenchon is even more pro Putin than Le Pen and wants to pull France out of NATO (Le Pen has at least shredded pictures of her meeting Putin and opposed the invasion) I doubt it makes any difference at all to the likelihood of Le Pen being Macron's opponent in the runoff.

    The latest poll has Macron getting a boost from the situation on 30%, Le Pen still second on 18%, Pecresse third on 12% and Melenchon and Zemmour tied 4th on 11%.

    The runoff figure is Macron 59% Le Pen 41%
    https://www.opinion-way.com/fr/barometre-opinionway-kea-partners-election-presidentielle-2022

    It is a pity the EU didn't provisionally invite Ukraine to join the EU before the invasion. They were desperate to join and it's unlikely the invasion would have happened if they had been under the EU umbrella. NATO is seving no purpose at all except tying everyone's hands behind their backs
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross withdraws his call for the PM to resign

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60692930
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    They have a point. It is no one's interest for a major business (and part of the EPL) to go bust, that doesn't benefit Putin it just harms the UK and London economies.

    There must be a way of allowing Chelsea to function as a business while denying income to Abramovich, until the mess can be sorted
    Abramovich Chelsea are a cancer on football and the UK, they must be expunged.
    I hope your view isn't influenced by the fact that were that to happen, Liverpool would be four points better off relative to Man City.
    Nope, I've always been consistent on this.

    It was why I didn't want Trashcan Sinatra or China to own LFC.

    I said at the time that I would have preferred Liverpool to have gone into administration than have been bought out by China backed bid in 2010.
    I'm just grateful Usmanov didn't get hold of Arsenal (not that that excuses the despicable behaviour of our owners last year).

    I'm fairly sure Chelsea will complete this season. But they are going to have a very difficult time thereafter.
    I've got to believe that there are sufficient billionaires out there who will come and buy it. It was up for sale before this and now the buyer can expect a better price and perhaps government assistance.

    I would expect the announcement of a sale pretty soon.
    Isn't the problem that the sanctions mean it cannot be sold at all?
    I would have thought that the sale could go through, and any profits could be frozen, instead of the football club itself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    The crucial bit of the question "to prevent Russia winning the war"....

    Practically all analysts think Russia will win out in the end, its a matter of how long, how much damage and destruction both sides inflict and what "winning" means i.e. does that mean Russia have replaced the government and nominally controlling all the major cities, but there still being an insurgency?

    Despite the amazing fight the Ukrainians are putting up, Russia are still moving forward, creeping forward inch by inch in some places, but in the South they are definitely "winning".
    In any case, the question doesn't ask anything about the West doing more.
    Just a 1/3 of voters saying the West is not doing nearly enough to stop Russia in Ukraine hardly suggests there is little great enthusiasm to do more
    1/3 voters? That's nearly enough for a Commons majority.
    No it isn't, even Blair in 2005 got 35.2% and that was the lowest total ever to get a Commons majority.

    Support for airstrikes is even less at 28% ie Foot 1983 levels
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1500131834184835080?s=20&t=NoiiPRmAHgk5cCTQcEHXUQ
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569

    Twat.

    Cyril Ramaphosa 🇿🇦
    @CyrilRamaphosa

    Thanking His Excellency President Vladimir Putin for taking my call today, so I could gain an understanding of the situation that was unfolding between Russia and Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/CyrilRamaphosa/status/1501970612163649539

    Ah, the Anglosphere...
    Alistair said:

    I like the maps in this thread

    Jomini of the West
    @JominiW
    1/ Ukrainian Theater of War, Day 14: After two weeks of war, Russian forces continue employ indiscriminate attacks to demoralize Ukrainian political resolve and military resistance. This growing war of attrition has not changed Western opinion on intervention. #UkraineWar

    https://twitter.com/JominiW/status/1501822538514579461

    With the Russian's down to pulling in camper vans as troop transports I think ot is pretty generous to keep them marched up as mechanised infantry.
    One of the more interesting, and rather unexplained, images is this group of Russian soldiers marching South from Kherson towards Crimea. Have they abandoned their vehicles? It looks like it.

    https://twitter.com/SputnikATO/status/1501569717538017282?t=Nkf4doAHExZZUtbOxodYsA&s=19
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,753
    OT musing on football. I'm not sure it will help the EPL if clubs are sold to Americans, who by and large take money out, rather than the dodgy regimes who put money in.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Carnyx said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is some question mark over the date, apparently. I’d have thought the weather conditions would make that puzzle easily

    Leon said:

    London Plague Recovery Update 629

    Walking up Charlotte St. Generally one of London’s most vibrant streets (“a man could be happy living on Charlotte Street” - Saul Bellow). I remember strolling down here in spring last year and it was desolate. Almost every bar and restaurant shuttered. Some in deep decay. I thought “this will never recover. Or it will take many years”

    It has recovered. Already. Apart from a small section above Goodge Street, all the premises are buzzing - either with customers, or the sounds of building work. Several places are brand new

    Highly encouraging. The resilience of cities. They can take a lot of punishment

    I was in town yesterday and walked from Liverpool Street to the West End in the spring sunshine. The amazing thing is how many interesting new businesses have sprung up, often in the place of dull chains that got the hell of out of dodge when the pandemic hit. I came to the conclusion that the reset might benefit London in the medium term. Emulation has been replaced with innovation upon her fair streets.
    Yes. Exactly my impression

    Lots of boring chain coffee shops and the like have disappeared. Replaced by “Mongolian wine bars” and “Nepalese bubble tea boutiques”

    So parts of london are actually looking MORE attractive and diverse than they did pre-plague
    I never had any doubt that London would bounce back. It has a vitality that can't be tamed. If the pandemic cleared out some boring businesses and boring people (moving to the sticks, not dying) so much the better. I am really looking forward to summer in the city, there is so much going on especially here in SE London.
    If anything it feels more youthful than before. It is the young who have flooded back. In numbers

    As they should
    Yeah, although everyone looks young to me these days! What London really needs is a property price reset to make it more affordable to the young, creative types etc but that doesn't seem imminent.
    Young creatives need to do what they've always done: descend on a cheaper, grimier part of town and gentrify the crap out of it.
    Trouble is, there literally aren't many areas like that left, anywhere near the centre. Lots of rubbish bits further out, but who wants to gentrify Edmonton or Wembley? To be a good candidate for gentrification you need lots of intriguing period buildings, and old industrial spaces, that can be spruced up, but also enough urban density and good transport for liveliness
    Wembley actually has reasonable opportunity at gentrification because of the international branding of the place, home of football etc.
    The home of Arsenal has been 100% gentrified. Woolwich workshop where it began is now this bar, and the arsenal a yuppie warren, or whatever the equivalent term now is. Annoyingly the artillery museum had to move out. Still not reopened somewhere in Wilts yet AFAIK

    https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4924599,0.0698648,3a,90y,7.6h,92.46t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNQV-m07SxiwNbYOr-N3xr8MHYj9J0YaLoyC5Qy!2e10!3e11!6shttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipNQV-m07SxiwNbYOr-N3xr8MHYj9J0YaLoyC5Qy=w203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya113.95182-ro-0-fo100!7i14000!8i7000
    That looks rather spiffing

    The Woolwich Royal Artillery Barracks are amazing. Like something from St Petersburg



    https://www.visitgreenwich.org.uk/things-to-do/royal-artillery-barracks-p1392451
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    Foxy said:

    Twat.

    Cyril Ramaphosa 🇿🇦
    @CyrilRamaphosa

    Thanking His Excellency President Vladimir Putin for taking my call today, so I could gain an understanding of the situation that was unfolding between Russia and Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/CyrilRamaphosa/status/1501970612163649539

    Ah, the Anglosphere...
    Alistair said:

    I like the maps in this thread

    Jomini of the West
    @JominiW
    1/ Ukrainian Theater of War, Day 14: After two weeks of war, Russian forces continue employ indiscriminate attacks to demoralize Ukrainian political resolve and military resistance. This growing war of attrition has not changed Western opinion on intervention. #UkraineWar

    https://twitter.com/JominiW/status/1501822538514579461

    With the Russian's down to pulling in camper vans as troop transports I think ot is pretty generous to keep them marched up as mechanised infantry.
    One of the more interesting, and rather unexplained, images is this group of Russian soldiers marching South from Kherson towards Crimea. Have they abandoned their vehicles? It looks like it.

    https://twitter.com/SputnikATO/status/1501569717538017282?t=Nkf4doAHExZZUtbOxodYsA&s=19
    Out of fuel?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,346
    edited March 2022
    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    When assessing the likely truth of a situation, don't listen to the side which cannot even keep its lies consistent. From BBC:

    More from Russia's claims about the bombing of a maternity and children's hospital in Mariupol - they are now saying the incident was staged by Ukraine.

    Speaking on Rossiya 24 news channel, Russian defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said "absolutely no missions to hit targets on the ground by Russian aviation in the Mariupol area were carried out".

    He then claimed: "The alleged airstrike that took place is a completely orchestrated provocation to maintain anti-Russian excitement among the Western audience."

    But earlier today (see our post just before 11:00GMT) Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that the hospital was a legitimate military target because it had been "taken over" by Ukrainian radicals and "all the mothers and nurses were chased out of there".

    Excited to hear lucky guys take on this.
    I've already stated up-thread that Russia doesn't have a free press and that its propaganda is often risible. Neither fact inclines me to take what the Ukrainians say on trust. Put bluntly, it is possible for them both to be presenting an inaccurate version of events.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Melenchon is even more pro Putin than Le Pen and wants to pull France out of NATO (Le Pen has at least shredded pictures of her meeting Putin and opposed the invasion) I doubt it makes any difference at all to the likelihood of Le Pen being Macron's opponent in the runoff.

    The latest poll has Macron getting a boost from the situation on 30%, Le Pen still second on 18%, Pecresse third on 12% and Melenchon and Zemmour tied 4th on 11%.

    The runoff figure is Macron 59% Le Pen 41%
    https://www.opinion-way.com/fr/barometre-opinionway-kea-partners-election-presidentielle-2022

    It is a pity the EU didn't provisionally invite Ukraine to join the EU before the invasion. They were desperate to join and it's unlikely the invasion would have happened if they had been under the EU umbrella. NATO is seving no purpose at all except tying everyone's hands behind their backs
    Another genius intervention, Rog

    "NATO is serving no purpose at all"

    Yep. Brilliant.
    EU good, NATO bad?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    When assessing the likely truth of a situation, don't listen to the side which cannot even keep its lies consistent. From BBC:

    More from Russia's claims about the bombing of a maternity and children's hospital in Mariupol - they are now saying the incident was staged by Ukraine.

    Speaking on Rossiya 24 news channel, Russian defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said "absolutely no missions to hit targets on the ground by Russian aviation in the Mariupol area were carried out".

    He then claimed: "The alleged airstrike that took place is a completely orchestrated provocation to maintain anti-Russian excitement among the Western audience."

    But earlier today (see our post just before 11:00GMT) Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that the hospital was a legitimate military target because it had been "taken over" by Ukrainian radicals and "all the mothers and nurses were chased out of there".

    This is a pattern and it's not incompetence. They did the same thing with MH17. They claimed it was Ukraine wot done it. And that it was a CIA drone plane filled with corpses to make Russia look bad. And that it was shot down in an attempt to kill Putin. The lies were mutually inconsistent, because part of the point is to destroy public faith in the concept of objective truth. If "all politicians are liars" and "you can't trust journalists", then you relieve the pressure on the illegitimacy of your kleptocracy, because by making the public so cynical about public life they turn away. In a sense, it was a planeload of dead cats being dropped on the table.
    You are correct, of course (you often are). Awful thing is it works. Not on everyone, but it doesn't need to.
    I think everyone is susceptible to some extent.
    We should be more forgiving of ourselves and others when we get suckered, and more discerning about who we mistrust as a result. "They're all the same" is the reaction they're after, so let's not give it to them.
    I sort of revert to "I don't know what is factual, but I know who the bad guys are." Because I don't know what is factual, even with these videos.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,734
    darkage said:

    At least our armed forces aren't tied up in Afghanistan. That is one thing, I suppose.

    Astonishing how pointless they were there.

    No matter the poor performance of the Russians we're perfectly capable of doing much the same. In this I'm mainly criticising Generals - we have far too many, the MoD - flabby beyond imagination, the treasury - procurement is easy, you buy stuff that works, but that doesn't happen so much; but also it seems that the average serviceman isn't so engaged (Oddly the guys that we want are off awol - although I'd not back their actions).

    There was some stat years ago about how few people the Israelis needed to man their procurement department as contrasted to us. I don't imagine that anyone disputes that man-for-man Israels defence forces are the best.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152

    OT musing on football. I'm not sure it will help the EPL if clubs are sold to Americans, who by and large take money out, rather than the dodgy regimes who put money in.

    Nah, TV revenue is what makes the Premier League the dominant league of the world.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    biggles said:

    Following Abramovich being sanctioned it’s hard to see how the league can continue to view him as a fit and proper person isn’t it? Any implications if that happens?

    No, they only apply that test when someone buys a club.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    edited March 2022
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Twat.

    Cyril Ramaphosa 🇿🇦
    @CyrilRamaphosa

    Thanking His Excellency President Vladimir Putin for taking my call today, so I could gain an understanding of the situation that was unfolding between Russia and Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/CyrilRamaphosa/status/1501970612163649539

    Ah, the Anglosphere...
    Alistair said:

    I like the maps in this thread

    Jomini of the West
    @JominiW
    1/ Ukrainian Theater of War, Day 14: After two weeks of war, Russian forces continue employ indiscriminate attacks to demoralize Ukrainian political resolve and military resistance. This growing war of attrition has not changed Western opinion on intervention. #UkraineWar

    https://twitter.com/JominiW/status/1501822538514579461

    With the Russian's down to pulling in camper vans as troop transports I think ot is pretty generous to keep them marched up as mechanised infantry.
    One of the more interesting, and rather unexplained, images is this group of Russian soldiers marching South from Kherson towards Crimea. Have they abandoned their vehicles? It looks like it.

    https://twitter.com/SputnikATO/status/1501569717538017282?t=Nkf4doAHExZZUtbOxodYsA&s=19
    Out of fuel?
    I think their supply problems are worse in the North, relatively unaffected in the south. It could be, or maybe just mass desertion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Can we compare it to flu now?

    NEW: for the first time in the pandemic, a Covid infection now carries less mortality risk than a flu infection in England, the result of widespread immunity and the emergence of a less virulent variant in Omicron.

    Our story: https://ft.com/content/e26c93

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1501886435145699328?cxt=HHwWgMCyvazw4tcpAAAA
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569

    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    When assessing the likely truth of a situation, don't listen to the side which cannot even keep its lies consistent. From BBC:

    More from Russia's claims about the bombing of a maternity and children's hospital in Mariupol - they are now saying the incident was staged by Ukraine.

    Speaking on Rossiya 24 news channel, Russian defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said "absolutely no missions to hit targets on the ground by Russian aviation in the Mariupol area were carried out".

    He then claimed: "The alleged airstrike that took place is a completely orchestrated provocation to maintain anti-Russian excitement among the Western audience."

    But earlier today (see our post just before 11:00GMT) Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that the hospital was a legitimate military target because it had been "taken over" by Ukrainian radicals and "all the mothers and nurses were chased out of there".

    Excited to hear lucky guys take on this.
    I've already stated up-thread that Russia doesn't have a free press and that its propaganda is often risible. Neither fact inclines me to take what the Ukrainians say on trust. Put bluntly, it is possible for them both to be presenting an inaccurate version of events.
    Certainly so, but there does seem to be a paucity of images of Ukranian destroyed or captured vehicles around. Maybe Russian media has them, or maybe the Russian troops don't do TikTok.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    kle4 said:

    Can we compare it to flu now?

    NEW: for the first time in the pandemic, a Covid infection now carries less mortality risk than a flu infection in England, the result of widespread immunity and the emergence of a less virulent variant in Omicron.

    Our story: https://ft.com/content/e26c93

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1501886435145699328?cxt=HHwWgMCyvazw4tcpAAAA

    Yes, after millions of deaths and billions spent on vaccine development.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Can we compare it to flu now?

    NEW: for the first time in the pandemic, a Covid infection now carries less mortality risk than a flu infection in England, the result of widespread immunity and the emergence of a less virulent variant in Omicron.

    Our story: https://ft.com/content/e26c93

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1501886435145699328?cxt=HHwWgMCyvazw4tcpAAAA

    Yes, after millions of deaths and billions spent on vaccine development.
    Indeed, and worth every penny spent.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    edited March 2022
    Omnium said:

    darkage said:

    At least our armed forces aren't tied up in Afghanistan. That is one thing, I suppose.

    Astonishing how pointless they were there.

    No matter the poor performance of the Russians we're perfectly capable of doing much the same. In this I'm mainly criticising Generals - we have far too many, the MoD - flabby beyond imagination, the treasury - procurement is easy, you buy stuff that works, but that doesn't happen so much; but also it seems that the average serviceman isn't so engaged (Oddly the guys that we want are off awol - although I'd not back their actions).

    There was some stat years ago about how few people the Israelis needed to man their procurement department as contrasted to us. I don't imagine that anyone disputes that man-for-man Israels defence forces are the best.
    I do. As would most who know about it…
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,696

    Leon said:

    Abramovich sanctions: We will go bust, Chelsea warn government

    Chelsea will hold talks with the government this afternoon, warning that the club could soon face financial ruin because of the sanctions imposed on their owner Roman Abramovich.

    The club will request that a number of amendments are made to the licence that has been issued by government officials, which allows Chelsea to continue “football-related activities” but has frozen Abramovich’s asset. It means the club has been forced to cease many of its commercial activities, including future ticket sales.

    Chelsea, however, will argue that they need the revenue. “If we aren’t allowed to continue operating normally we will very quickly run into the red,” a senior Stamford Bridge source told The Times.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-sanctions-we-will-go-bust-chelsea-warn-government-76g75l75s

    They have a point. It is no one's interest for a major business (and part of the EPL) to go bust, that doesn't benefit Putin it just harms the UK and London economies.

    There must be a way of allowing Chelsea to function as a business while denying income to Abramovich, until the mess can be sorted
    Abramovich Chelsea are a cancer on football and the UK, they must be expunged.
    City and Newcastle next!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    Presumably the Windies will declare at some point. They need enough time to bowl out England, at least a dozen overs.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,734
    biggles said:

    Omnium said:

    darkage said:

    At least our armed forces aren't tied up in Afghanistan. That is one thing, I suppose.

    Astonishing how pointless they were there.

    No matter the poor performance of the Russians we're perfectly capable of doing much the same. In this I'm mainly criticising Generals - we have far too many, the MoD - flabby beyond imagination, the treasury - procurement is easy, you buy stuff that works, but that doesn't happen so much; but also it seems that the average serviceman isn't so engaged (Oddly the guys that we want are off awol - although I'd not back their actions).

    There was some stat years ago about how few people the Israelis needed to man their procurement department as contrasted to us. I don't imagine that anyone disputes that man-for-man Israels defence forces are the best.
    I do. As would most who know about it…
    Ok. Please correct me.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,490
    edited March 2022
    It's a weird situation in France IMO — if Valérie Pécresse could get into the second round she'd probably have a good chance of winning. The problem is she's struggling to get enough support in the first round. Seems counterintuitive for both those things to be true at the same time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    I don't see an issue. The refugee matter is laudible, but they can be supported in that whilst still face consequences for other matters.

    It's similar to how it's possible to think, on some aspects, Boris has done a good job on Ukraine, but still think he should be replaced.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    When assessing the likely truth of a situation, don't listen to the side which cannot even keep its lies consistent. From BBC:

    More from Russia's claims about the bombing of a maternity and children's hospital in Mariupol - they are now saying the incident was staged by Ukraine.

    Speaking on Rossiya 24 news channel, Russian defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said "absolutely no missions to hit targets on the ground by Russian aviation in the Mariupol area were carried out".

    He then claimed: "The alleged airstrike that took place is a completely orchestrated provocation to maintain anti-Russian excitement among the Western audience."

    But earlier today (see our post just before 11:00GMT) Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that the hospital was a legitimate military target because it had been "taken over" by Ukrainian radicals and "all the mothers and nurses were chased out of there".

    Excited to hear lucky guys take on this.
    I've already stated up-thread that Russia doesn't have a free press and that its propaganda is often risible. Neither fact inclines me to take what the Ukrainians say on trust. Put bluntly, it is possible for them both to be presenting an inaccurate version of events.
    Certainly so, but there does seem to be a paucity of images of Ukranian destroyed or captured vehicles around. Maybe Russian media has them, or maybe the Russian troops don't do TikTok.
    AIUI Russian solders had there phones taken off them the night before the invasion.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross withdraws his call for the PM to resign

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60692930

    lightweight
    Who knew?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Barrage of whining from Chelsea fans in the radio vox Pop.
    £28 m wage bill per month.
    Quite who pays that I dunno.
  • YouGov Welsh poll:

    Lab 41% (nc)
    Con 26% (nc)
    PC 13% (nc)
    LD 7% (+4)
    Ref 6% (-1)
    Grn 4% (-2)
    oth 3% (nc)

    (YouGov/ITV Cymru Wales/Wales Governance Centre; 1,086; 25 Feb-1 Mar 2022)

    Landslide win for Labour.

    GE2024, Labour Government almost certainly.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    IshmaelZ said:

    It seems pretty extraordinary that the Ukrainians are able to capture intact, or simply find abandoned, some seriously expensive and capable kit such as that Pantsir S1 anti-aircraft systems ($13million each) or Igor's 9K330 Tor SAM. Far from demilitarising them, the Russians seem to be supplying them with some very handy gear.

    "Citizens in uniform, until with time they grow the skins of soldiers, are shocked by the waste created by war. Among many Anzacs’ most vivid memories of the retreat from Greece was the colossal detritus of wrecked and abandoned vehicles, guns, stores, wirelesses, range-finders – millions of pounds’ worth of scarcely used equipment, ditched by the roadsides of the Peloponnese."

    Hastings, All Hell Let Loose. And that's 1941 millions.
    Yes, but it does suggest that the Russians are in considerable chaos.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    edited March 2022
    >
    darkage said:

    At least our armed forces aren't tied up in Afghanistan. That is one thing, I suppose.

    Astonishing how pointless they were there.

    No matter the poor performance of the Russians we're perfectly capable of doing much the same. In this I'm mainly criticising Generals - we have far too many, the MoD - flabby beyond imagination, the treasury - procurement is easy, you buy stuff that works, but that doesn't happen so much; but also it seems that the average serviceman isn't so engaged (Oddly the guys that we want are off awol - although I'd not back their actions).

    There was some stat years ago about how few people the Israelis needed to man their procurement department as contrasted to us. I don't imagine that anyone disputes that man-for-man Israels defence forces are the best.
    I do. As would most who know about it…


    Ok. Please correct me.
    Ask yourself what the purpose of the Israeli armed forces is and then compare abs contrast with us, the US, etc. They have a very niche role.

    Man for man, with equipment? Excluding SF? The US marines every time clearly. Allowing for training and doctrine and ignoring kit? We get a look in.

    To your procurement point, it’s piss easy for Israel - you just buy the last 5% of American production runs. We could that if you like but not without impact.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited March 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    It's a weird situation in France IMO — if Valérie Pécresse could get into the second round she'd probably have a good chance of winning. The problem is she's struggling to get enough support in the first round. Seems counterintuitive for both those things to be true at the same time.

    Latest runoff polls suggest Le Pen doing slightly better than Pecresse.

    As Macron cannot run again in the next presidential election under the French constitution, Le Pen's aim would be to get 40-45% in the runoff this time so she has a base for 2027. Then En Marche will be a shadow of itself without Macron and unless Les Republicains can find a decent candidate, which sadly is clearly now not Pecresse, Le Pen would be in prime position.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,490

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    It seems pretty extraordinary that the Ukrainians are able to capture intact, or simply find abandoned, some seriously expensive and capable kit such as that Pantsir S1 anti-aircraft systems ($13million each) or Igor's 9K330 Tor SAM. Far from demilitarising them, the Russians seem to be supplying them with some very handy gear.

    "Citizens in uniform, until with time they grow the skins of soldiers, are shocked by the waste created by war. Among many Anzacs’ most vivid memories of the retreat from Greece was the colossal detritus of wrecked and abandoned vehicles, guns, stores, wirelesses, range-finders – millions of pounds’ worth of scarcely used equipment, ditched by the roadsides of the Peloponnese."

    Hastings, All Hell Let Loose. And that's 1941 millions.
    Yes, but it does suggest that the Russians are in considerable chaos.
    Yes, they are losing a war. The only thing worse than winning one, per the D of W after Waterloo. In the film anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    YouGov Welsh poll:

    Lab 41% (nc)
    Con 26% (nc)
    PC 13% (nc)
    LD 7% (+4)
    Ref 6% (-1)
    Grn 4% (-2)
    oth 3% (nc)

    (YouGov/ITV Cymru Wales/Wales Governance Centre; 1,086; 25 Feb-1 Mar 2022)

    Landslide win for Labour.

    GE2024, Labour Government almost certainly.
    Welsh poll They were +5 even in 2019
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited March 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    Exactly, especially as Putin will be sniffing out any weakness in Nato nations commitment to Eastern Europe beyond Ukraine.

  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Bit of a gift wicket for England.
  • Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    dixiedean said:

    Barrage of whining from Chelsea fans in the radio vox Pop.
    £28 m wage bill per month.
    Quite who pays that I dunno.

    The next trillionaire owner

    Before the sanctions announcement there were already at least four prospective buyers. Some Turkish mogul, a couple of rich dudes in the US, and so on

    The obvious thing is to allow the sale but Roman won't see any of it, at least not yet
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    dixiedean said:

    Barrage of whining from Chelsea fans in the radio vox Pop.
    £28 m wage bill per month.
    Quite who pays that I dunno.

    Sky and BT.
  • Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,193
    Are Norwich at home a bit large at 11.5 to beat Chelsea?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    I don't even agree about the optics looking dreadful. Yes, some will say that it is not the time for it, as indeed some have, but the optics to me say that even at a time of great disruption they regard maintaining standards of the institution, in this at least, to still be important.

    The dream of the EU has always been better than its reality, and that is still the case. But that it is attempting to show it cares about adherence to rules is a positive.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    When assessing the likely truth of a situation, don't listen to the side which cannot even keep its lies consistent. From BBC:

    More from Russia's claims about the bombing of a maternity and children's hospital in Mariupol - they are now saying the incident was staged by Ukraine.

    Speaking on Rossiya 24 news channel, Russian defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said "absolutely no missions to hit targets on the ground by Russian aviation in the Mariupol area were carried out".

    He then claimed: "The alleged airstrike that took place is a completely orchestrated provocation to maintain anti-Russian excitement among the Western audience."

    But earlier today (see our post just before 11:00GMT) Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that the hospital was a legitimate military target because it had been "taken over" by Ukrainian radicals and "all the mothers and nurses were chased out of there".

    Excited to hear lucky guys take on this.
    I've already stated up-thread that Russia doesn't have a free press and that its propaganda is often risible. Neither fact inclines me to take what the Ukrainians say on trust. Put bluntly, it is possible for them both to be presenting an inaccurate version of events.
    Both sides. Gotcha.

    Do you think the bombing of the hospital was faked by Ukraine?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,734
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    It seems pretty extraordinary that the Ukrainians are able to capture intact, or simply find abandoned, some seriously expensive and capable kit such as that Pantsir S1 anti-aircraft systems ($13million each) or Igor's 9K330 Tor SAM. Far from demilitarising them, the Russians seem to be supplying them with some very handy gear.

    "Citizens in uniform, until with time they grow the skins of soldiers, are shocked by the waste created by war. Among many Anzacs’ most vivid memories of the retreat from Greece was the colossal detritus of wrecked and abandoned vehicles, guns, stores, wirelesses, range-finders – millions of pounds’ worth of scarcely used equipment, ditched by the roadsides of the Peloponnese."

    Hastings, All Hell Let Loose. And that's 1941 millions.
    Yes, but it does suggest that the Russians are in considerable chaos.
    Yes, they are losing a war. The only thing worse than winning one, per the D of W after Waterloo. In the film anyway.
    They're losing a war badly. A stupid war of their own making. 1902 was it, when they attacked the Japanese?

    It'll take a while, but the penny will drop in even the stupidest heads in Moscow.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,490

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    I'd be interested to know how many Italian and German MEPs voted for this.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    Maybe tell that to the Poles
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    In your view, other views are available
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited March 2022

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    Maybe tell that to the Poles
    Exactly, Poland neighbours Ukraine.

    Why should Putin not use this complete lack of support by the EU for Poland to send some regiments across the Polish border now, completely wrongfooting NATO? He would use the jets being sent to Poland for Ukraine as an excuse
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    What a bunch of irrelevant arseholes they are.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Chelsea kit man down the sports shop looking for Chelsea kit without the logo. Apparently.
  • DavidL said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    What a bunch of irrelevant arseholes they are.
    They have their supporters - glad we are out
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    Maybe tell that to the Poles
    Exactly, Poland neighbours Ukraine.

    Why should Putin not use this complete lack of support by the EU for Poland to send some regiments across the Polish border now, completely wrongfooting NATO? He would use the jets being sent to Poland for Ukraine as an excuse
    Even by yours and Putin's standards that's an over reaction to an EU vote.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    Maybe tell that to the Poles
    Polish MEPs voted in favour of this.
    After consulting with the constituents who elected them, or...?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,193
    DavidL said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    What a bunch of irrelevant arseholes they are.
    On what basis have they done this? I mean, the EU can't instruct a EU country on immigration from non-EU countries can it?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    It seems pretty extraordinary that the Ukrainians are able to capture intact, or simply find abandoned, some seriously expensive and capable kit such as that Pantsir S1 anti-aircraft systems ($13million each) or Igor's 9K330 Tor SAM. Far from demilitarising them, the Russians seem to be supplying them with some very handy gear.

    "Citizens in uniform, until with time they grow the skins of soldiers, are shocked by the waste created by war. Among many Anzacs’ most vivid memories of the retreat from Greece was the colossal detritus of wrecked and abandoned vehicles, guns, stores, wirelesses, range-finders – millions of pounds’ worth of scarcely used equipment, ditched by the roadsides of the Peloponnese."

    Hastings, All Hell Let Loose. And that's 1941 millions.
    Yes, but it does suggest that the Russians are in considerable chaos.
    Yes, they are losing a war. The only thing worse than winning one, per the D of W after Waterloo. In the film anyway.
    Wellington used that quote (with variations) one a number of occasions.

    I can't remember who it was, who suggested that the Duke was somewhat unfamiliar with losing battles, so wasn't really in a position to say that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    Maybe tell that to the Poles
    Polish MEPs voted in favour of this.
    Most didn't
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    dixiedean said:

    Chelsea kit man down the sports shop looking for Chelsea kit without the logo. Apparently.

    I reckon they'll do what West Ham did in 2008 when XL Airways went under:


  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Stocky said:

    Are Norwich at home a bit large at 11.5 to beat Chelsea?

    Not if the first four minutes are owt to go by.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    Maybe tell that to the Poles
    Exactly, Poland neighbours Ukraine.

    Why should Putin not use this complete lack of support by the EU for Poland to send some regiments across the Polish border now, completely wrongfooting NATO? He would use the jets being sent to Poland for Ukraine as an excuse
    Even by yours and Putin's standards that's an over reaction to an EU vote.
    Putin is ruthless, he smells any weakness in the Western alliance. He could add this appalling EU vote to Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,806
    If the Ukrainian air force is still flying and the Russians are not doing a huge amount of flying themselves at the moment is it not surprising that more of the Russian battalions are not being targeted around Kiev?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,193
    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Are Norwich at home a bit large at 11.5 to beat Chelsea?

    Not if the first four minutes are owt to go by.
    Bugger. They are 46 now!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited March 2022

    DavidL said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    What a bunch of irrelevant arseholes they are.
    They have their supporters - glad we are out
    I have no belief in the effectiveness of the EU Parliament. I simply find the negatiuve reaction to their passing of a resolution to uphold the standards of the institution to be quite deeply strange.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,734
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    Maybe tell that to the Poles
    Exactly, Poland neighbours Ukraine.

    Why should Putin not use this complete lack of support by the EU for Poland to send some regiments across the Polish border now, completely wrongfooting NATO? He would use the jets being sent to Poland for Ukraine as an excuse
    Even by yours and Putin's standards that's an over reaction to an EU vote.
    Putin is ruthless, he smells any weakness in the Western alliance. He could add this appalling EU vote to Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan
    He's toast.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    YouGov Welsh poll:

    Lab 41% (nc)
    Con 26% (nc)
    PC 13% (nc)
    LD 7% (+4)
    Ref 6% (-1)
    Grn 4% (-2)
    oth 3% (nc)

    (YouGov/ITV Cymru Wales/Wales Governance Centre; 1,086; 25 Feb-1 Mar 2022)

    Landslide win for Labour.

    GE2024, Labour Government almost certainly.
    Have a look at the 2013 polls….

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610
    Ukr offers $1m to any ru pilot who defects with his plane.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    In your view, other views are available
    Poland's government has been politically interfering with its judiciary. Read up on it, it's very bad. It's been going on for years. It's only the timing, the juxtaposition of two unrelated stories, that is making people react. Rule of law matter, you don't suspend it just because there are refugees coming in.
    There is common sense but then to many the EU is sacrosanct and can do no wrong
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    kle4 said:

    YouGov Welsh poll:

    Lab 41% (nc)
    Con 26% (nc)
    PC 13% (nc)
    LD 7% (+4)
    Ref 6% (-1)
    Grn 4% (-2)
    oth 3% (nc)

    (YouGov/ITV Cymru Wales/Wales Governance Centre; 1,086; 25 Feb-1 Mar 2022)

    Landslide win for Labour.

    GE2024, Labour Government almost certainly.
    Welsh poll They were +5 even in 2019
    +5 becomes +15

    Boris = Bozo
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    edited March 2022
    biggles said:


    darkage said:



    Astonishing how pointless they were there.

    No matter the poor performance of the Russians we're perfectly capable of doing much the same. In this I'm mainly criticising Generals - we have far too many, the MoD - flabby beyond imagination, the treasury - procurement is easy, you buy stuff that works, but that doesn't happen so much; but also it seems that the average serviceman isn't so engaged (Oddly the guys that we want are off awol - although I'd not back their actions).

    There was some stat years ago about how few people the Israelis needed to man their procurement department as contrasted to us. I don't imagine that anyone disputes that man-for-man Israels defence forces are the best.

    I do. As would most who know about it…
    Ok. Please correct me.
    Ask yourself what the purpose of the Israeli armed forces is and then compare abs contrast with us, the US, etc. They have a very niche role.

    Man for man, with equipment? Excluding SF? The US marines every time clearly. Allowing for training and doctrine and ignoring kit? We get a look in.

    To your procurement point, it’s piss easy for Israel - you just buy the last 5% of American production runs. We could that if you like but not without impact.


    A simple example of why British defence procurement is the way it is.

    A few years back the Spearfish torpedos needed some midlife upgrades. For those that don't know, the Spearfish torpedo is a genuinely good effort - faster and more modern than the American equivalent.

    Part of the rework require work on the hydraulic system. Like many machines of it's vintage, it is full of high pressure hydraulic lines to control stuff.

    In a classic example of how this works, the makers of the hydraulics had used custom tools and knowledge that they had partially funded. So that only they could do the work to replace the hydraulics. So they submitted a suitably astronomical bill.

    A coupe of bright sparks at the MoD noticed that decades had passed since Spearfish was designed - things have moved on. It turned out that the hydraulics could largely be replaced with electrical actuators, which were safer, lighter etc etc. Oh, and tiny fraction of the price....

    A trial torpedo was rigged up with some actuators from the very large underwater remote vehicle world (see the old business etc) - and it worked. All was looking good....

    Were tea and medals offered?

    No

    Instead a delegation of the hydraulic manufacturers, politicians and various other interested parties requested -

    - The innovative chaps be fired.
    - The hydraulics be upgraded as planned.

    "Must preserve industrial base"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    What a bunch of irrelevant arseholes they are.
    They have their supporters - glad we are out
    I have no belief in the effectiveness of the EU Parliament. I simply find the negatiuve reaction to their passing of a resolution to uphold the standards of the institution to be quite deeply strange.
    When Russian forces are on the streets of Brussels and the Russian flag is raised above the EU Parliament no doubt they will still be voting to sanction their supposed fellow member states and NATO allies!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    kle4 said:

    YouGov Welsh poll:

    Lab 41% (nc)
    Con 26% (nc)
    PC 13% (nc)
    LD 7% (+4)
    Ref 6% (-1)
    Grn 4% (-2)
    oth 3% (nc)

    (YouGov/ITV Cymru Wales/Wales Governance Centre; 1,086; 25 Feb-1 Mar 2022)

    Landslide win for Labour.

    GE2024, Labour Government almost certainly.
    Welsh poll They were +5 even in 2019
    +5 becomes +15

    Boris = Bozo
    Oh it's encouraging for Labour, it's just not necessarily landslide at a GE by leading so much in Wales.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,916
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Big picture”, much?

    BREAKING:

    The European Parliament just passed a resolution demanding the European Commission imposes immediate economic sanctions on... Poland and Hungary.

    478 MEPs voted for, 155 against.

    Poland took in 1.4 mln refugees in 2 weeks and is struggling with the economic costs.


    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1501842348132741122

    The phrase "there's a time and a place" comes to mind when reading this.
    The optics are dreadful irrespective of right and wrong
    So... perception matters more than right and wrong?
    In this case common sense should prevail and yes, the optics are terrible
    You are epically, heroically, legendarily wrong.
    In your view, other views are available
    Poland's government has been politically interfering with its judiciary. Read up on it, it's very bad. It's been going on for years. It's only the timing, the juxtaposition of two unrelated stories, that is making people react. Rule of law matter, you don't suspend it just because there are refugees coming in.
    Even though there aren't many refugees coming into the UK, if there was ever a bunch of arseholes who might suspend the rule of law for low political purposes...

    When is Sue's report due?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    kle4 said:

    YouGov Welsh poll:

    Lab 41% (nc)
    Con 26% (nc)
    PC 13% (nc)
    LD 7% (+4)
    Ref 6% (-1)
    Grn 4% (-2)
    oth 3% (nc)

    (YouGov/ITV Cymru Wales/Wales Governance Centre; 1,086; 25 Feb-1 Mar 2022)

    Landslide win for Labour.

    GE2024, Labour Government almost certainly.
    Welsh poll They were +5 even in 2019
    +5 becomes +15

    Boris = Bozo
    26% for the Tories in Wales still matches the 26% Cameron got in Wales in 2010 and almost matches the 27% Cameron got in Wales in 2015 when the Tories got a UK majority
  • kle4 said:

    YouGov Welsh poll:

    Lab 41% (nc)
    Con 26% (nc)
    PC 13% (nc)
    LD 7% (+4)
    Ref 6% (-1)
    Grn 4% (-2)
    oth 3% (nc)

    (YouGov/ITV Cymru Wales/Wales Governance Centre; 1,086; 25 Feb-1 Mar 2022)

    Landslide win for Labour.

    GE2024, Labour Government almost certainly.
    Welsh poll They were +5 even in 2019
    +5 becomes +15

    Boris = Bozo
    Wales will be a lot closer by GE24 with a hard left government enacting job destroying policies, a failing NHS, and in North Wales a tourist tax of all things
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