I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
I'd say bridges are actually one of the more useful things to buy. And one over the Tigris seems like it would be more useful than most.
The whole bridge to sell you meme is based on a misunderstanding - that a dim-witted American bought the old London Bridge believing it was Tower Bridge. In fact they knew exactly what they were buying and re-assembled the bridge, or at least parts of it, as they had planned.
Just the facings, though. The bulk of it was dumped at Merrivale quarry on Dartmoor just up the road.
This is ultimately a decision for the Ukrainians. But it feels like Putin is not acting particularly rationally. Whether this is real or a mad man act, It is hard to say. Hopefully the latter.
I am very wary of any broader 'deal' with Russia, due to their proven unreliability. It is an enormous problem though. A rogue state with a massive arsenal of nuclear weapons.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
I'd say bridges are actually one of the more useful things to buy. And one over the Tigris seems like it would be more useful than most.
The whole bridge to sell you meme is based on a misunderstanding - that a dim-witted American bought the old London Bridge believing it was Tower Bridge. In fact they knew exactly what they were buying and re-assembled the bridge, or at least parts of it, as they had planned.
To those telling themselves, and each other, differently: Putin has won this. He has made the west cower from him militarily whilst he expands Greater Russia by crushing a civilised nation.
Margaret Thatcher would have stood up to him.
There are two separate issues here:
(1) Have the people of Ukraine lost? (2) Has Putin won?
The people of Ukraine are losing their lives and their homes every day.
But the idea that Putin (and Russia) have come out of this stronger is utterly deluded. Russia's weapons have shown themselves no match for the West's. Who would buy a Russian fighter plane or helicopter, given they are being destroyed by citizens wielding the very lowest tech stuff from Raytheon?
Russia is supposed to have some of the best anti-aircraft systems in the world. Their S400 missile system is $300m a pop, and they've blanketed their parts of Ukraine with it. It is supposed to be able to destroy fighters, bombers, drones and even stealthy aircraft.
A week in, they're out of missiles, and the Ukrainian airforce is intact, and its drones still fly. The S400, used for the first time in anger in Ukraine, is one of the most expensive duds in history. It's meant to take out enemy aircraft 150 miles away... yet I don't think it's managed a single kill.
It gets worse. Russia's armor and APCs have been hammered. Thousands of vehicles have been destroyed.
Only the Russian artillery has proven any worth. And that's technology that is eighty years old, and which would be in terrible trouble if the Ukrainians had more than a few dozen Turkish drones.
Putin can't act with inpunity because the best parts of his armed forces have already been destroyed. Yes, he'll probably manage to hold Ukraine up to the Dnieper. But Lviv looks a lot safer than it did. Simply, Russian supply chains are already a disaster, and moving 300 miles West through hostile country with few roads (while garrisoning half a dozen rebellious cities) is likely to be far too much for the Russian army.
Ukraine (and the Ukrainian people) have paid a terrible price.
But the people of Poland will be breathing a lot easier, having seen the utter failures of the Russian army in the Ukraine.
If Russia didn't have nuclear weapons, at all, and got into a conventional war with NATO then we'd make mincemeat of them very quickly.
Didn't Putin say something similar lately? Part of his attempt to paint Russia as the non-aggressor, since as we know causing fear in another and launching an invasion as the same.
Are people in the west ready to accept a democracy which is racist and homophobic? I'm not sure.
You may want to look at how Amnesty International dropped Alexey Navalny's status as a prisoner of conscience, because of comments be made in 2007 that could be regarded as 'advocacy of hatred'. The decision was eventually reversed, but many tensions between Russia and the west can be explained by the idea that the west is not really interested in spreading democracy, but a specific set of values and beliefs which are alien to Russian cultural traditions. Putin has very successfully exploited this tension, to consolidate the power of his own regime.
Re your first sentence. Clearly not as look at the pushback against Poland and Hungary. Nations need to not just accept democracy but also our values. Alien or not.
Yes well look at the pushback. And look at what is happening now - Poland and Hungary have turned against Russia. Bigger issues have come in to play. This is one of the positive consequences of the current situation, that I can see.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
They haven't, is the point; the suggestion is, you are so dim that you will believe me when I say I own the bridge, and you will hand over the money with which I will then scarper.
Ruble opening at 122/$, only another 13% lost in the past 24 hours.
Was 76/$ a fortnight ago, so everything imported is doing to be double the price - if they can find anyone who wants to sell to them?
On that topic, Samsung and Panasonic would appear to be amongst the latest major corporations in the democratic world to have ceased shipments to Russia. There'll doubtless be plenty of smuggled goodies still to be enjoyed by the elite in Russia, but the middle class (or that portion of it that hasn't managed to run away) is going to be living in a recreation of the Soviet era circa 1950 before very long.
Black market goods at black market exchange rates. Only an oligarch is going to be able to afford a new telly now.
JP Morgan warning that inflation will decimate middle class life savings in RU.
Can Putin survive that? I posted last night that Russians are very stoical, but who knows in the modern era?
Yes he can. The suffering of the mass of ordinary people is irrelevant to Putin. He'll be just fine so long as his government officials, security services and the professional army are kept in a reasonable degree of comfort. See also: North Korea. Any ordinary prole who defies him can be sent to a gulag or shot in the streets.
Which is why it is important to hit the very few Russians whose opinions count - the ultra rich - as hard as possible. The minimisation of this particular bit of self-interested sleaze on the part of the UK government is disturbing.
On the NFZ thing, is there any indication what proportion of Russian pounding of cities is by artillery and how much is airborne? I get the impression the former is far greater than the latter, which makes sense as it’s more cost effective apart from anything else.
Whether one thinks it’s right or wrong, I’m pretty sure an NFZ (even a partial one covering Kyiv and the west which seems to be Ukraine’s latest suggestion) would only be a step towards asking why NATO isn’t smashing Russian artillery positions.
To those telling themselves, and each other, differently: Putin has won this. He has made the west cower from him militarily whilst he expands Greater Russia by crushing a civilised nation.
Margaret Thatcher would have stood up to him.
There are two separate issues here:
(1) Have the people of Ukraine lost? (2) Has Putin won?
The people of Ukraine are losing their lives and their homes every day.
But the idea that Putin (and Russia) have come out of this stronger is utterly deluded. Russia's weapons have shown themselves no match for the West's. Who would buy a Russian fighter plane or helicopter, given they are being destroyed by citizens wielding the very lowest tech stuff from Raytheon?
Russia is supposed to have some of the best anti-aircraft systems in the world. Their S400 missile system is $300m a pop, and they've blanketed their parts of Ukraine with it. It is supposed to be able to destroy fighters, bombers, drones and even stealthy aircraft.
A week in, they're out of missiles, and the Ukrainian airforce is intact, and its drones still fly. The S400, used for the first time in anger in Ukraine, is one of the most expensive duds in history. It's meant to take out enemy aircraft 150 miles away... yet I don't think it's managed a single kill.
It gets worse. Russia's armor and APCs have been hammered. Thousands of vehicles have been destroyed.
Only the Russian artillery has proven any worth. And that's technology that is eighty years old, and which would be in terrible trouble if the Ukrainians had more than a few dozen Turkish drones.
Putin can't act with inpunity because the best parts of his armed forces have already been destroyed. Yes, he'll probably manage to hold Ukraine up to the Dnieper. But Lviv looks a lot safer than it did. Simply, Russian supply chains are already a disaster, and moving 300 miles West through hostile country with few roads (while garrisoning half a dozen rebellious cities) is likely to be far too much for the Russian army.
Ukraine (and the Ukrainian people) have paid a terrible price.
But the people of Poland will be breathing a lot easier, having seen the utter failures of the Russian army in the Ukraine.
I hope this is correct, but there is a lot of other analysis that indicates the Russian military had a bad start and are now getting things together. We are only 10 days in to the war. In case anyone missed it, the unherd interview a few days ago with Justin Bronk was terrifying.
I thought the Bronk interview was pretty convincing, though we're all armchair generals here including the commentators (some of whom, though not Bronk, may have an interest in promoting an agenda or just getting coverage by saying something eye-catching). A strategic problem for the Russians is that they can't afford to simply bomb the cities flat if they hope to run them later (and possibly don't actually want to), so although we're seeing some horrific pictures they mostly seem to be one-offs rather than systematic destruction of civilian areas.
So if you're trying to capture cities full of people who are armed and hostile, and you rule out bombing them into submission, what do you do? Presumably what's happening in Mariupol - surround them, cut off all utilities, and then offer safe passage out. That may work with a small city, but with all eyes on Kyiv, it's not going to be easy there, perhaps impossible. Also, Putin has successfully mobilised nearly all Ukrainians behind Zelensky's leadership - at least for now.
Conversely the Ukrainians have the problem that they're on the defensive nearly everywhere (they was a report of a counteratack in the NE but I've not seen more?). They aren't getting a no-fly zone (and even if they did it wouldn't solve the ground problem) and in the long term it looks impossible to win.
Rationally, therefore, there needs to be a deal. We can all see the rough outlines of a credible deal and it's been discussed here and elsewhere. But is Putin rational? Or will the deteriorating Russian situation force him into it? And can Zelensky make a deal without losing much of his popularity? Perhaps his repeated demands for a no-fly zone which he knows is not coming can be seen in that light - when he doesn't get it, he can credibly say that in view of that, a deal was necessary.
So it's possible that we'll see some general progress towards a cease-fire soon, followed by protracted haggling - during which to answer the thread header, we will all go back to arguing about parties and Brexit and FPTP.
How the Russians will justify demanding keeping a corridor from Donbas to Crimea will be interesting given the justification for the war was to defend Donbas and Crimea is secure.
But then as we've seen they are shameless ar inventing new pretexts so theyll think of something.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
I'd say bridges are actually one of the more useful things to buy. And one over the Tigris seems like it would be more useful than most.
The whole bridge to sell you meme is based on a misunderstanding - that a dim-witted American bought the old London Bridge believing it was Tower Bridge. In fact they knew exactly what they were buying and re-assembled the bridge, or at least parts of it, as they had planned.
Just the facings, though. The bulk of it was dumped at Merrivale quarry on Dartmoor just up the road.
Why on earth take it all that way? Not even a rail line, at least at the end. I'd have thought there were plenty of Bedfordshire and Peterborough brick clay pits to fill up.
On topic this war needs to end asap, sanctions have consumed my work life then my actual life, and I've not even seen The Batman yet.
I've been waiting all my life for a dark, gritty reboot of the Batman mythos. The movies have been far too light and fluffy since Adam West.
The Chris Nolan/Christian Bale Batman films were too light and fluffy?
It's a view.
It was a poor attempt at sarcasm. Ultimately a director will come accross with a vision of Batman so dark it is essentially staring at a black screen for 3 hours.
Hope you are a better lawyer than film critic
Get a job.
Deaf as well as dumb, as I have told you repeatedly I have a job that pays me 6 figures, I do not require another one.
OT I think its better if ukraine went off the front pages. Yes that is callous but all the lovebombing, military curiosity , dressing up in yellow and blue , is not actually helping Ukraine . It is however making thigs risky when dealign with a nuclear power. Do things like supply weapons, sanctions etc underhand and outside of bellicose and things stay within the established cold war rules of the game . I am involved in a national sports body and they are plastering all over they will not compete with Russians etc - I dont personally think its necessary for them to overtly state this all over social media as they have but outnumbered in my voice there. As somebody said here last night , there are many conflicts around the world where we ,both as a state and individuals , have just not been interested in - Congo, Rwanda (until a film was made of it of course) , Yemen. The one conflict of recent times we just about got half interested in was the break up of Yugoslavia - I think it probably tells we value european lives and security more than other areas of the world lives. That's probably just the way we work as humans in that the closer the suffering in terms of culture and proximity the more we "care" . But please dont make it a big moral crusade and endanger the whole world over it by being gung-ho
On topic this war needs to end asap, sanctions have consumed my work life then my actual life, and I've not even seen The Batman yet.
I've been waiting all my life for a dark, gritty reboot of the Batman mythos. The movies have been far too light and fluffy since Adam West.
The Chris Nolan/Christian Bale Batman films were too light and fluffy?
It's a view.
It was a poor attempt at sarcasm. Ultimately a director will come accross with a vision of Batman so dark it is essentially staring at a black screen for 3 hours.
Hope you are a better lawyer than film critic
Get a job.
Deaf as well as dumb, as I have told you repeatedly I have a job that pays me 6 figures, I do not require another one.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Hang on. We ARE fed propaganda. About things that utterly pale into comparison, but propaganda nonetheless.
That isn't new. Political spin and newspaper lies have been part of our landscape since the dawn of print.
Yes, but the 'pales into comparison' bit is important.
Most of the time a commentator doing a 'we do X too' thing, despite protestations, is suggesting the sides are equal in sin. Trump once did it even to the statement about Putin being a killer. But not all propaganda is of the level, as you note.
On topic this war needs to end asap, sanctions have consumed my work life then my actual life, and I've not even seen The Batman yet.
I've been waiting all my life for a dark, gritty reboot of the Batman mythos. The movies have been far too light and fluffy since Adam West.
The Chris Nolan/Christian Bale Batman films were too light and fluffy?
It's a view.
It was a poor attempt at sarcasm. Ultimately a director will come accross with a vision of Batman so dark it is essentially staring at a black screen for 3 hours.
Hope you are a better lawyer than film critic
Get a job.
Deaf as well as dumb, as I have told you repeatedly I have a job that pays me 6 figures, I do not require another one.
"Six figures"! Lol! Only if you are paid in rubles. Having a five figure salary requires a degree of literacy which you, quite obviously, do not possess you poor poor man.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
I understand now is not the time to criticise Johnson, nonetheless, and in answer to your question, why break the habit of the last 35 years?
In terms of those who question believers in Boris Johnson's probity using the bridge critique is valid. Johnson spent £53m on feasibility studies for a vanity project that never was.
For those of us not of the Johnson faith the garden bridge (and the road bridge to Northern Ireland) theme are (in?)tangible monuments to his smoke, mirrors and profligacy.
@stodge@MoonRabbit Not too impreessed with nags today and as I need to go get new tyres early , quick selection and I have only done a few small bets. Follow at your own risk , especially this week.
EW Single Tamaroc Du Mathan 1:50 Newbury Trixie Famous Bridge 14:05 Kelso Espoir De Romay 14:40 Kelso Hardy Du Seuil 15:43 Kelso
Savanta ComRes have finally published their detailed tables (how they are not kicked out of the BPC for persistent breach of the rules escapes me).
It transpires that it was a fantastic poll for Labour, especially Scottish Labour.
England:
Lab 45% Con 38% LD 9% Grn 3% Ref 3%
Scotland:
SNP 44% Lab 28% Con 17% LD 10% Grn 2% Ref -
Wales:
Lab 42% Con 23% PC 16% LD 10% Ref 5% Grn 3%
(Savanta ComRes; 25-29 February; 2,208)
But, rather oddly, if you pump those Scottish numbers into Baxter, it is not Scottish Labour who are the big winners, but rather the Tories and Lib Dems who lose big time:
SNP 56 seats (+8) Lab 1 seat (nc) Con 0 seats (-6) LD 0 seats (-2)
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
They haven't, is the point; the suggestion is, you are so dim that you will believe me when I say I own the bridge, and you will hand over the money with which I will then scarper.
It's a real hindrance for my business as an honest bridge seller, people assume we're all crooks.
On topic this war needs to end asap, sanctions have consumed my work life then my actual life, and I've not even seen The Batman yet.
I've been waiting all my life for a dark, gritty reboot of the Batman mythos. The movies have been far too light and fluffy since Adam West.
The Chris Nolan/Christian Bale Batman films were too light and fluffy?
It's a view.
It was a poor attempt at sarcasm. Ultimately a director will come accross with a vision of Batman so dark it is essentially staring at a black screen for 3 hours.
Hope you are a better lawyer than film critic
Get a job.
Deaf as well as dumb, as I have told you repeatedly I have a job that pays me 6 figures, I do not require another one.
"Six figures"! Lol! Only if you are paid in rubles. Having a five figure salary requires a degree of literacy which you, quite obviously, do not possess you poor poor man.
As I said thick as mince, bit of green cheese there small claims court ambulance chaser man.
On topic this war needs to end asap, sanctions have consumed my work life then my actual life, and I've not even seen The Batman yet.
I've been waiting all my life for a dark, gritty reboot of the Batman mythos. The movies have been far too light and fluffy since Adam West.
The Chris Nolan/Christian Bale Batman films were too light and fluffy?
It's a view.
It was a poor attempt at sarcasm. Ultimately a director will come accross with a vision of Batman so dark it is essentially staring at a black screen for 3 hours.
Hope you are a better lawyer than film critic
Get a job.
Deaf as well as dumb, as I have told you repeatedly I have a job that pays me 6 figures, I do not require another one.
"Six figures"! Lol! Only if you are paid in rubles. Having a five figure salary requires a degree of literacy which you, quite obviously, do not possess you poor poor man.
As I said thick as mince, bit of green cheese there small claims court ambulance chaser man.
And I don't begrudge paying my taxes on it to support you in your lifetime of neediness. It's okay to be a Walter Mitty type with a "six figure salary" but don't expect not to get called out on it when you spout such obvious bullshit. Practice a bit more.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
I'd say bridges are actually one of the more useful things to buy. And one over the Tigris seems like it would be more useful than most.
The whole bridge to sell you meme is based on a misunderstanding - that a dim-witted American bought the old London Bridge believing it was Tower Bridge. In fact they knew exactly what they were buying and re-assembled the bridge, or at least parts of it, as they had planned.
Just the facings, though. The bulk of it was dumped at Merrivale quarry on Dartmoor just up the road.
Why on earth take it all that way? Not even a rail line, at least at the end. I'd have thought there were plenty of Bedfordshire and Peterborough brick clay pits to fill up.
ahem
That was local folk myth. Having now googled it, it seems to be exactly arse about face. Corbels to renovate the bridge in London were carved on Dartmoor, never used and remain there, but some may have gone to the USA for the rebuilt bridge
However, wikipedia in a not very high quality looking article thinks the *facing* stones were taken to merrivale, reworked there and shipped on
"The bridge's facing stones were removed, with each numbered and its position catalogued. After the bridge was dismantled, the stones were transported to a quarry in Merrivale, Devon, where 15 to 20 cm (6 to 8 inches) were sliced off many of the original stones."
That 40km(?) column stuck en route to Kyiv seems a portend of the futility and meaninglessness of Russia's special military operation in Ukraine. The soldiers there must by now be utterly demoralised with inadequate fuel and food, their vehicles stranded in the mud or broken down. If the tanks and lorries can move might they not just turn round and head back home? Or the soldiers just upsticks and walk home? That is the only, albeit unlikely, development I can imagine as good news in this war.
On topic this war needs to end asap, sanctions have consumed my work life then my actual life, and I've not even seen The Batman yet.
I've been waiting all my life for a dark, gritty reboot of the Batman mythos. The movies have been far too light and fluffy since Adam West.
The Chris Nolan/Christian Bale Batman films were too light and fluffy?
It's a view.
It was a poor attempt at sarcasm. Ultimately a director will come accross with a vision of Batman so dark it is essentially staring at a black screen for 3 hours.
Hope you are a better lawyer than film critic
Get a job.
Deaf as well as dumb, as I have told you repeatedly I have a job that pays me 6 figures, I do not require another one.
"Six figures"! Lol! Only if you are paid in rubles. Having a five figure salary requires a degree of literacy which you, quite obviously, do not possess you poor poor man.
As I said thick as mince, bit of green cheese there small claims court ambulance chaser man.
And I don't begrudge paying my taxes on it to support you in your lifetime of neediness. It's okay to be a Walter Mitty type with a "six figure salary" but don't expect not to get called out on it when you spout such obvious bullshit. Practice a bit more.
Strange he gets so emotional over the state pension. Must be a drop in the ocean compared to his earned wealth.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
They haven't, is the point; the suggestion is, you are so dim that you will believe me when I say I own the bridge, and you will hand over the money with which I will then scarper.
It's a real hindrance for my business as an honest bridge seller, people assume we're all crooks.
But that's the burden I bear pursuing my calling.
There are honest businessmen trying to run import-export businesses in Nigeria. And sadly thgey are really easy to defraud because they accept that no one is going to let them have money or goods up front.
That 40km(?) column stuck en route to Kyiv seems a portend of the futility and meaninglessness of Russia's special military operation in Ukraine. The soldiers there must by now be utterly demoralised with inadequate fuel and food, their vehicles stranded in the mud or broken down. If the tanks and lorries can move might they not just turn round and head back home? Or the soldiers just upsticks and walk home? That is the only, albeit unlikely, development I can imagine as good news in this war.
..wasn’t the Russian general killed at the front of that convoy recently? They really are sitting ducks
That 40km(?) column stuck en route to Kyiv seems a portend of the futility and meaninglessness of Russia's special military operation in Ukraine. The soldiers there must by now be utterly demoralised with inadequate fuel and food, their vehicles stranded in the mud or broken down. If the tanks and lorries can move might they not just turn round and head back home? Or the soldiers just upsticks and walk home? That is the only, albeit unlikely, development I can imagine as good news in this war.
As described earlier "The Russians have formed the world's longest POW camp. And the Ukrainians don't have to feed it."
I suspect there's a daily visit by a Ukrainian under a white flag, asking if they are ready to go home yet. They'll even lay on the buses to the border....
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Hang on. We ARE fed propaganda. About things that utterly pale into comparison, but propaganda nonetheless.
That isn't new. Political spin and newspaper lies have been part of our landscape since the dawn of print.
Yes, but the 'pales into comparison' bit is important.
Most of the time a commentator doing a 'we do X too' thing, despite protestations, is suggesting the sides are equal in sin. Trump once did it even to the statement about Putin being a killer. But not all propaganda is of the level, as you note.
What our governments are doing isn't on the same level. But part of their actions feel similar. Xenophobia and aggressive spin against the evil EU. Suppression of the right to protest and vote. Suppression of transparency coupled with open egregious lies. And not just here - America is even worse.
There is a reason the Tories are so in bed with Russia. Farage. Salmond. Trump. AFPAC.... And our media are happy to continue to spew disinformation and outright lies to push public opinion in a direction that suits their patrons and owners.
So treat all mediated content - which means all of it - as potentially suspect. You can't trust your eyes and ears if you are watching footage presented to you by someone else. Witness the huge crowds in Iraq hauling down the Saddam statue and beating it with their shoes. It happened. But the context - revealed in photos released later - was a small crowd corralled by US troops. May tried the same stunt in the 2017 election campaign with pressers in factories where close-angle camera work made it look like a throng.
Are people in the west ready to accept a democracy which is racist and homophobic? I'm not sure.
You may want to look at how Amnesty International dropped Alexey Navalny's status as a prisoner of conscience, because of comments be made in 2007 that could be regarded as 'advocacy of hatred'. The decision was eventually reversed, but many tensions between Russia and the west can be explained by the idea that the west is not really interested in spreading democracy, but a specific set of values and beliefs which are alien to Russian cultural traditions. Putin has very successfully exploited this tension, to consolidate the power of his own regime.
Well. I have been thinking. Maybe Russia is too big, too disconnected? It's the problem we have with urban "woke" liberals and the Red Wall writ on an enormous scale. At least most people have been to London. And most Londoners have travelled the country. The issue of disconnect is even bigger in the US where it isn't as easy, or as common. Russia really only has two cities. The rest don't matter. A lot of Russia is several hours flight away from them. We tend to visit, meet people from, and think about that country as Moscow and St Petersburg. It really isn't. Most of it is an unimaginable, to us, distance from anywhere else. Life looks different from there.
Going back in time, my Russian grandmother said that her family in the countryside was used in pre-revolutionary Russia to being completely out of touch, not just with national events but with family - a close relative in another town might be ill, but you wouldn't find out for weeks whether they had recovered when the occasional postal service made a delivery. Obviously that's no longer true in practical terms with telephones and electronic media, but I wonder if the psychology isn't still a bit like that - everything that happens seems a long, long way away. And the shutdown of western social media will reinforce that even for young tech-savvy kids who might take a liberal view of affairs. If you'reliving in Nijni-Novgorod, say, and have little contact with the outside world, the temptation to shrug ad let the leadership get on with it must surely be pretty natural?
For a very long time, the Russian leadership has been dominated by suspicious nationalists with occasional moments of pragmatism - and so have the leaderships of most of the former Soviet republics, incuding pre-Zelensky Ukraine. We shouldn't imagine many of them to be Guardian-reading moderates. Zelensky is interesting, as Gorbachev was, because he's attractively closer to what we're familiar with, but I wouldn't overestimate the depth of support that he will have if he makes a deal.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Hang on. We ARE fed propaganda. About things that utterly pale into comparison, but propaganda nonetheless.
That isn't new. Political spin and newspaper lies have been part of our landscape since the dawn of print.
Yes, but the 'pales into comparison' bit is important.
Most of the time a commentator doing a 'we do X too' thing, despite protestations, is suggesting the sides are equal in sin. Trump once did it even to the statement about Putin being a killer. But not all propaganda is of the level, as you note.
What our governments are doing isn't on the same level. But part of their actions feel similar. Xenophobia and aggressive spin against the evil EU. Suppression of the right to protest and vote. Suppression of transparency coupled with open egregious lies. And not just here - America is even worse.
There is a reason the Tories are so in bed with Russia. Farage. Salmond. Trump. AFPAC.... And our media are happy to continue to spew disinformation and outright lies to push public opinion in a direction that suits their patrons and owners.
So treat all mediated content - which means all of it - as potentially suspect. You can't trust your eyes and ears if you are watching footage presented to you by someone else. Witness the huge crowds in Iraq hauling down the Saddam statue and beating it with their shoes. It happened. But the context - revealed in photos released later - was a small crowd corralled by US troops. May tried the same stunt in the 2017 election campaign with pressers in factories where close-angle camera work made it look like a throng.
On topic this war needs to end asap, sanctions have consumed my work life then my actual life, and I've not even seen The Batman yet.
I've been waiting all my life for a dark, gritty reboot of the Batman mythos. The movies have been far too light and fluffy since Adam West.
The Chris Nolan/Christian Bale Batman films were too light and fluffy?
It's a view.
It was a poor attempt at sarcasm. Ultimately a director will come accross with a vision of Batman so dark it is essentially staring at a black screen for 3 hours.
Hope you are a better lawyer than film critic
Get a job.
Deaf as well as dumb, as I have told you repeatedly I have a job that pays me 6 figures, I do not require another one.
"Six figures"! Lol! Only if you are paid in rubles. Having a five figure salary requires a degree of literacy which you, quite obviously, do not possess you poor poor man.
As I said thick as mince, bit of green cheese there small claims court ambulance chaser man.
And I don't begrudge paying my taxes on it to support you in your lifetime of neediness. It's okay to be a Walter Mitty type with a "six figure salary" but don't expect not to get called out on it when you spout such obvious bullshit. Practice a bit more.
@dougseal you really are a sad little git. Cannot see in front of your nose silly boy. You are not really very perceptive are you.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
They haven't, is the point; the suggestion is, you are so dim that you will believe me when I say I own the bridge, and you will hand over the money with which I will then scarper.
I'm tempted to cancel my subscription to The Times after seeing this.
Because I must have missed Boris Johnson invading another country and shelling civilians.
Johnson has been bombing the shit out of Iraq and Syria since he took over. If you think none of those PW4s hit civilians I've got a bridge over the Tigris to sell you.
Why do the people who think others are a bit dim if they will buy a bridge, always have a spare bridge they are trying to get rid of in the first place?
They haven't, is the point; the suggestion is, you are so dim that you will believe me when I say I own the bridge, and you will hand over the money with which I will then scarper.
Although he has done quite a lot so far I think Scholz should prepare the German people for the hardship to come if Russia escalates - chemical weapons/tactical nukes etc.
Gas is extremely seasonal. Europeans store it in the summer and then use it in the winter. Would they be in a position to rely on LNG next winter? Either way creative solutions to reduce reliance on Russian gas would be good.
To those telling themselves, and each other, differently: Putin has won this. He has made the west cower from him militarily whilst he expands Greater Russia by crushing a civilised nation.
Margaret Thatcher would have stood up to him.
What did she do about Russia invading Afghanistan, and Vietnam invading Cambodia? Apart from arming the Taliban and Khymer Rouge? What did she do about the Soviets crushing the Solidarity movement in Poland?
Maggie lives on as the PB Tory fantasy, willing to do anything in their fevered dreams.
Thatcher was emblematic of a more powerful and confident country.
Mrs Thatcher began the decades of Tory defence cuts. She also created the European single market: another inconvenient memory.
Defence cuts caused because 'she' helped win the Cold War, averting nuclear armageddon for a few decades and winning a vast bonus from peace?
Would you have preferred the Cold War to continue?
Check your dates. The Thatcher government was cutting defence years before Gorbachev, the fall of the Berlin Wall or however else you want to mark the end of the cold war.
Here's the data. It looks like % of GDP on Defence started drifting the year after she met Gorbachev, which was 1985 after meeting him in 1984.
He became top man - Gen Sec of the CPSU - in 1985.
On topic this war needs to end asap, sanctions have consumed my work life then my actual life, and I've not even seen The Batman yet.
I've been waiting all my life for a dark, gritty reboot of the Batman mythos. The movies have been far too light and fluffy since Adam West.
The Chris Nolan/Christian Bale Batman films were too light and fluffy?
It's a view.
It was a poor attempt at sarcasm. Ultimately a director will come accross with a vision of Batman so dark it is essentially staring at a black screen for 3 hours.
Hope you are a better lawyer than film critic
Get a job.
Deaf as well as dumb, as I have told you repeatedly I have a job that pays me 6 figures, I do not require another one.
But, as some of our Parliamentarians, and indeed the PM, have demonstrated a job which pays almost or indeed somewhat above six figures need not necessarily be enough to make (their) ends meet.
(Declaration. I might, at times, have earned a six figure salary but I was never actually paid anything like that!)
Well Michael kofman doubts it. However he also thinks Russian forces will be exhausted within 3 weeks.
One thing being ignored is the weather. The forecast is for a significant drop in temperature around Kiev next week. Down to -11 on Thursday. Are the Russians prepared for that?
To those telling themselves, and each other, differently: Putin has won this. He has made the west cower from him militarily whilst he expands Greater Russia by crushing a civilised nation.
Margaret Thatcher would have stood up to him.
What did she do about Russia invading Afghanistan, and Vietnam invading Cambodia? Apart from arming the Taliban and Khymer Rouge? What did she do about the Soviets crushing the Solidarity movement in Poland?
Maggie lives on as the PB Tory fantasy, willing to do anything in their fevered dreams.
Thatcher was emblematic of a more powerful and confident country.
Mrs Thatcher began the decades of Tory defence cuts. She also created the European single market: another inconvenient memory.
Defence cuts caused because 'she' helped win the Cold War, averting nuclear armageddon for a few decades and winning a vast bonus from peace?
Would you have preferred the Cold War to continue?
Check your dates. The Thatcher government was cutting defence years before Gorbachev, the fall of the Berlin Wall or however else you want to mark the end of the cold war.
Here's the data. It looks like % of GDP on Defence started drifting the year after she met Gorbachev, which was 1985 after meeting him in 1984.
He became top man - Gen Sec of the CPSU - in 1985.
As ever with these things, it's complex and hard to condense down into Twatter-style soundbites.
As an aside, why do so many people on left and right Year-zero Thatcher? Many on the right say everything was crud before her, and became better after; whilst many on the left say everything was bright and rosy before and went to Hell in a Handcart after her.
The truth is very much in the middle. Like 'Thatcher stole the milk', 'Thatcher closed all the mines' or 'Thatcher won the Cold War', the truth is much more complex. In truth, her legacy very much depends on what came before her, and what came afterwards...
To those telling themselves, and each other, differently: Putin has won this. He has made the west cower from him militarily whilst he expands Greater Russia by crushing a civilised nation.
Margaret Thatcher would have stood up to him.
What did she do about Russia invading Afghanistan, and Vietnam invading Cambodia? Apart from arming the Taliban and Khymer Rouge? What did she do about the Soviets crushing the Solidarity movement in Poland?
Maggie lives on as the PB Tory fantasy, willing to do anything in their fevered dreams.
Thatcher was emblematic of a more powerful and confident country.
Mrs Thatcher began the decades of Tory defence cuts. She also created the European single market: another inconvenient memory.
Defence cuts caused because 'she' helped win the Cold War, averting nuclear armageddon for a few decades and winning a vast bonus from peace?
Would you have preferred the Cold War to continue?
Huh? The defence cuts started in 79. Remember that we just about held the Falklands thanks to some gung-ho operational insanity by the RAF using planes that the defence cuts were about to retire. And our navy had to delay selling various ships to be able to man the exclusion zone.
" The defence cuts started in 79"
Really?
In 1960, defence spending was around 6.3% of GDP. In 1970, 4.65. In 1980, 4.49. In 1990, 3.56.
Are people in the west ready to accept a democracy which is racist and homophobic? I'm not sure.
You may want to look at how Amnesty International dropped Alexey Navalny's status as a prisoner of conscience, because of comments be made in 2007 that could be regarded as 'advocacy of hatred'. The decision was eventually reversed, but many tensions between Russia and the west can be explained by the idea that the west is not really interested in spreading democracy, but a specific set of values and beliefs which are alien to Russian cultural traditions. Putin has very successfully exploited this tension, to consolidate the power of his own regime.
Well. I have been thinking. Maybe Russia is too big, too disconnected? It's the problem we have with urban "woke" liberals and the Red Wall writ on an enormous scale. At least most people have been to London. And most Londoners have travelled the country. The issue of disconnect is even bigger in the US where it isn't as easy, or as common. Russia really only has two cities. The rest don't matter. A lot of Russia is several hours flight away from them. We tend to visit, meet people from, and think about that country as Moscow and St Petersburg. It really isn't. Most of it is an unimaginable, to us, distance from anywhere else. Life looks different from there.
Going back in time, my Russian grandmother said that her family in the countryside was used in pre-revolutionary Russia to being completely out of touch, not just with national events but with family - a close relative in another town might be ill, but you wouldn't find out for weeks whether they had recovered when the occasional postal service made a delivery. Obviously that's no longer true in practical terms with telephones and electronic media, but I wonder if the psychology isn't still a bit like that - everything that happens seems a long, long way away. And the shutdown of western social media will reinforce that even for young tech-savvy kids who might take a liberal view of affairs. If you'reliving in Nijni-Novgorod, say, and have little contact with the outside world, the temptation to shrug ad let the leadership get on with it must surely be pretty natural?
For a very long time, the Russian leadership has been dominated by suspicious nationalists with occasional moments of pragmatism - and so have the leaderships of most of the former Soviet republics, incuding pre-Zelensky Ukraine. We shouldn't imagine many of them to be Guardian-reading moderates. Zelensky is interesting, as Gorbachev was, because he's attractively closer to what we're familiar with, but I wouldn't overestimate the depth of support that he will have if he makes a deal.
A country that votes 73% for a Jewish comedian doesn't strike me as one on the verge of nationalist uproar. The war will have hardened attitudes I'm sure but the key thing is the Ukrainians know they need western goodwill and that kind of thing is toxic to us. The most scary measures they've introduced appear to be related to the official status of the Russian language.
The Ukrainians would be doing a deal with a gun to their head and they would need to trust us that sanctions would remain on Russia (i.e their frozen foreign exchange reserves) until they pay reparations to Ukraine.
To those telling themselves, and each other, differently: Putin has won this. He has made the west cower from him militarily whilst he expands Greater Russia by crushing a civilised nation.
Margaret Thatcher would have stood up to him.
What did she do about Russia invading Afghanistan, and Vietnam invading Cambodia? Apart from arming the Taliban and Khymer Rouge? What did she do about the Soviets crushing the Solidarity movement in Poland?
Maggie lives on as the PB Tory fantasy, willing to do anything in their fevered dreams.
Thatcher was emblematic of a more powerful and confident country.
Mrs Thatcher began the decades of Tory defence cuts. She also created the European single market: another inconvenient memory.
Defence cuts caused because 'she' helped win the Cold War, averting nuclear armageddon for a few decades and winning a vast bonus from peace?
Would you have preferred the Cold War to continue?
Huh? The defence cuts started in 79. Remember that we just about held the Falklands thanks to some gung-ho operational insanity by the RAF using planes that the defence cuts were about to retire. And our navy had to delay selling various ships to be able to man the exclusion zone.
" The defence cuts started in 79"
Really?
In 1960, defence spending was around 6.3% of GDP. In 1970, 4.65. In 1980, 4.49. In 1990, 3.56.
It's not just the amount of money but how it's spent. As long as the government insists on spunking large parts of the defence budget on national vanities and job creation schemes we're going to be in the same shit.
Comments
I am very wary of any broader 'deal' with Russia, due to their proven unreliability. It is an enormous problem though. A rogue state with a massive arsenal of nuclear weapons.
A good starting attitude to approach any opinion tbh.
Long form interview with Boris Johnson in La Repubblica (in English).
Whether one thinks it’s right or wrong, I’m pretty sure an NFZ (even a partial one covering Kyiv and the west which seems to be Ukraine’s latest suggestion) would only be a step towards asking why NATO isn’t smashing Russian artillery positions.
But then as we've seen they are shameless ar inventing new pretexts so theyll think of something.
Most of the time a commentator doing a 'we do X too' thing, despite protestations, is suggesting the sides are equal in sin. Trump once did it even to the statement about Putin being a killer. But not all propaganda is of the level, as you note.
In terms of those who question believers in Boris Johnson's probity using the bridge critique is valid. Johnson spent £53m on feasibility studies for a vanity project that never was.
For those of us not of the Johnson faith the garden bridge (and the road bridge to Northern Ireland) theme are (in?)tangible monuments to his smoke, mirrors and profligacy.
Not too impreessed with nags today and as I need to go get new tyres early , quick selection and I have only done a few small bets.
Follow at your own risk , especially this week.
EW Single
Tamaroc Du Mathan 1:50 Newbury
Trixie
Famous Bridge 14:05 Kelso
Espoir De Romay 14:40 Kelso
Hardy Du Seuil 15:43 Kelso
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&scotshow=Y&CON=44.7&LAB=33&LIB=11.8&Reform=2.1&Green=2.8&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=25.1&SCOTLAB=18.6&SCOTLIB=9.5&SCOTReform=0.5&SCOTGreen=1.0&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=45&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019base
It does bring into question the suitability of the algorithm for predicting Scottish seats at least.
So asking a large section of the population to suck it up as inflation runs riot and they become poorer is going to be much more difficult .
But that's the burden I bear pursuing my calling.
I’d also doubt whether logic actually applies to Putins mindset. He’ll keep pushing on, regardless of the reality
That was local folk myth. Having now googled it, it seems to be exactly arse about face. Corbels to renovate the bridge in London were carved on Dartmoor, never used and remain there, but some may have gone to the USA for the rebuilt bridge
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/parts-london-bridge-abandoned-dartmoor-1485215
However, wikipedia in a not very high quality looking article thinks the *facing* stones were taken to merrivale, reworked there and shipped on
"The bridge's facing stones were removed, with each numbered and its position catalogued. After the bridge was dismantled, the stones were transported to a quarry in Merrivale, Devon, where 15 to 20 cm (6 to 8 inches) were sliced off many of the original stones."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge_(Lake_Havasu_City)
If the tanks and lorries can move might they not just turn round and head back home? Or the soldiers just upsticks and walk home? That is the only, albeit unlikely, development I can imagine as good news in this war.
I suspect there's a daily visit by a Ukrainian under a white flag, asking if they are ready to go home yet. They'll even lay on the buses to the border....
There is a reason the Tories are so in bed with Russia. Farage. Salmond. Trump. AFPAC.... And our media are happy to continue to spew disinformation and outright lies to push public opinion in a direction that suits their patrons and owners.
So treat all mediated content - which means all of it - as potentially suspect. You can't trust your eyes and ears if you are watching footage presented to you by someone else. Witness the huge crowds in Iraq hauling down the Saddam statue and beating it with their shoes. It happened. But the context - revealed in photos released later - was a small crowd corralled by US troops. May tried the same stunt in the 2017 election campaign with pressers in factories where close-angle camera work made it look like a throng.
https://twitter.com/lewis_baston/status/1499708225951784962?s=21
For a very long time, the Russian leadership has been dominated by suspicious nationalists with occasional moments of pragmatism - and so have the leaderships of most of the former Soviet republics, incuding pre-Zelensky Ukraine. We shouldn't imagine many of them to be Guardian-reading moderates. Zelensky is interesting, as Gorbachev was, because he's attractively closer to what we're familiar with, but I wouldn't overestimate the depth of support that he will have if he makes a deal.
Gas is extremely seasonal. Europeans store it in the summer and then use it in the winter. Would they be in a position to rely on LNG next winter? Either way creative solutions to reduce reliance on Russian gas would be good.
He became top man - Gen Sec of the CPSU - in 1985.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/military-spending-defense-budget
(Declaration. I might, at times, have earned a six figure salary but I was never actually paid anything like that!)
One thing being ignored is the weather. The forecast is for a significant drop in temperature around Kiev next week. Down to -11 on Thursday. Are the Russians prepared for that?
As an aside, why do so many people on left and right Year-zero Thatcher? Many on the right say everything was crud before her, and became better after; whilst many on the left say everything was bright and rosy before and went to Hell in a Handcart after her.
The truth is very much in the middle. Like 'Thatcher stole the milk', 'Thatcher closed all the mines' or 'Thatcher won the Cold War', the truth is much more complex. In truth, her legacy very much depends on what came before her, and what came afterwards...
Really?
In 1960, defence spending was around 6.3% of GDP. In 1970, 4.65. In 1980, 4.49. In 1990, 3.56.
The Ukrainians would be doing a deal with a gun to their head and they would need to trust us that sanctions would remain on Russia (i.e their frozen foreign exchange reserves) until they pay reparations to Ukraine.