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The outcast in Anchorage: A senate storm brews in Alaska – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,905
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Penz has gone full Truss (and not looking glaikit she probably pulls off the Thatch tribute act a bit more succesfully)..


    My saver bet (hedging SKS and Sunak) for Next PM - and with how her price has moved since it's one I'm glad I did rather than wish I hadn't.
    Flattering photo of her. Very well taken and chosen

    She looks like a much hotter version of Le Pen, and a sexier more dominatrix version of mid-period Thatch

    Clever PR
    Surprised you can detect "dominatrix" just from the face.
    I literally can. I’ll spare you the deets of why

    It’s not my taste but I have spent a long time investigating this world
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833
    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
  • Tres said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    The Spectator seems increasingly to be pushing an anti-British viewpoint. But why?
    Because its core readership are the kind of people who find modern Britain perplexing and disquieting?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Penz has gone full Truss (and not looking glaikit she probably pulls off the Thatch tribute act a bit more succesfully)..


    My saver bet (hedging SKS and Sunak) for Next PM - and with how her price has moved since it's one I'm glad I did rather than wish I hadn't.
    Flattering photo of her. Very well taken and chosen

    She looks like a much hotter version of Le Pen, and a sexier more dominatrix version of mid-period Thatch

    Clever PR
    Surprised you can detect "dominatrix" just from the face.
    I literally can. I’ll spare you the deets of why

    It’s not my taste but I have spent a long time investigating this world
    You are Cesare Lombroso and I claim my 1m lire.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,688
    edited February 2022
    deleted - buggered up quotes
  • Carnyx said:

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The one that seriously sets my teeth on edge is “Syne” - who the feck put a Z in it?
    The real test is to ask a Southron to describe the route from Milngavie to Rutherglen and then Anstruther.
    I've done the branch to Milngavie, back in October 2018.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,650
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    It’s a perfectly legitimate view. One held by Emmanuel Macron, I believe

    The Putin of 10 years ago was a very different beast. Lucid, clever, sane. A ruthless patriot, a brutal soldier, but amenable to logic. Perhaps we could have handled him better; certainly our rapid expansion of NATO right up to his borders, immediately after the humiliating collapse of the USSR now appears questionable

    Does any of this excuse Putin’s satanic and pointless assault on Ukraine? Of course not. It’s pure evil. It’s also pointless even for mad dog Putin, it might well backfire quickly and even if he “wins” in the short term he loses in the end. What’s the endgame for him? I can’t see a good one
    Your analysis doesn't account for the long gap -- some 6-8 years -- between the Baltic states' accession to NATO and Putin going "bad".

    It's easy to compress timelines when looking at the past, but Putin was acting fairly sensibly long after 2004. All the attempts to explain this in terms of NATO membership or the Iraq war fall down on the same point, and until someone even tries to account for that huge time lag, I do not take such a view seriously.
    You might be right. I’d have to go back and look
    at the timelines. But we agree there was a time when Putin was “sensible” - and that seems to be Liddle’s point (tho I haven’t read the article, just the headline, and Liddle does say some foolish things to provoke)

    Either way Andrew Neil is quite right. One big reason we hate the new mad Putin is that he wants to crush free speech and dissent. Free speech means seeing printed opinions you might fiercely dislike
    Free speech also means being allowed to whine about Woke and being cancelled when someone highlights all-to-predictable contrarianism, or in this case just reproduces an image of the headline of an article. Then everyone can point & laugh at those whiners and their endless attempts to pretend being challenged is some kind of censorship.

    It’s great.
    In my experience, criticism of the Spectator nearly always comes from a peculiar subset of people who genuinely dislike its viewpoint yet secretly would love to be published inside it, as it is so prestigious. A curious phenomenon
    It's interesting. A decade or so ago I was a regular reader of the Speccy and found it a pleasant zippy-in-places recreational read. I now see it as bow-tie reactionary faux man-of-the-world drivel you'd have to pay me serious money to allow through the letterbox. So, has it changed or have I changed? Bit of both, I guess, but I think it's mainly me. The last 10 or 12 years, coinciding with not having to earn a living, I've made a concerted effort to really *think* about things rather than forever chasing around in a daze, swilling coffee, running for trains and planes, and it's made a big difference. It's been the decade of my enlightenment - with my Spectator habit one of its minor casualties.
    On and off Speccie reader for decades. Currently off. A few reasons:

    Its diversity is good, but it currently lacks a coherent editorial world view. it should be the voice of a considered philosophically coherent conservatism. It isn't.

    Bias is good; but careful slanting of facts and fact selection isn't.

    It's too incestuous (politically) in its people makeup.

    It reviews too many incrowd/luvvie books and books which are not worth publishing (usually the same thing). Its 'arts' covers too much trashy self regarding junk.

    It shows insufficient regard for ordinary poor people and their lives and at the same time is not intelligent enough. (In this regard the NS is starting to overtake it - much improved recently).

    It has too much illiterate economics.

    Too many of its writers are self absorbed.

    I exempt Matthew Parris from all of this.

    PS You can get its gist online for free, but don't tell them.

    Alternatively, the editors at the Spectator have realised that the future of an intellectual, highly prestigious but ancient current affairs magazine lies in appealing to a younger net-savvy readership, not the elderly gents who populate PB?

    This would explain why so many of the pensioners on here have decided it is in decline, yet mysteriously it is racking up record sales, unlike almost every other printed journal in the western world
    I remember A. Neils approach to marketing his sales figures...



    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1357717251231776770?s=20

    And when you remove the Libdem filter...

    image


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,270

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Labour calls on Boris Johnson to expel the Russian ambassador to the UK

    "The Russian ambassador is parroting the lies of Putin’s rogue regime, which is waging an illegal war against Ukraine," David Lammy says

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russia-boris-johnson-ukraine-invasion-ambassador-b2023891.html

    I do not understand why Labour think this will help in the longer run other than it being a knee jerk reaction

    Only if the US and EU were to eject their Russian ambassadors would it make sense for us to do the same

    Rather immature from Lammy

    If an idea doesn't come from Radio Free Boris you dismiss it.

    Nonetheless it is an irrelevance, but why not add it to the list of irrelevancies?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,905

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Penz has gone full Truss (and not looking glaikit she probably pulls off the Thatch tribute act a bit more succesfully)..


    My saver bet (hedging SKS and Sunak) for Next PM - and with how her price has moved since it's one I'm glad I did rather than wish I hadn't.
    Flattering photo of her. Very well taken and chosen

    She looks like a much hotter version of Le Pen, and a sexier more dominatrix version of mid-period Thatch

    Clever PR
    Leon may be away for some time.
    Indeed. I’m off to a crowded Camden pub to watch you get thrashed in the rugby
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Penz has gone full Truss (and not looking glaikit she probably pulls off the Thatch tribute act a bit more succesfully)..


    My saver bet (hedging SKS and Sunak) for Next PM - and with how her price has moved since it's one I'm glad I did rather than wish I hadn't.
    Flattering photo of her. Very well taken and chosen

    She looks like a much hotter version of Le Pen, and a sexier more dominatrix version of mid-period Thatch

    Clever PR
    Surprised you can detect "dominatrix" just from the face.
    I literally can. I’ll spare you the deets of why

    It’s not my taste but I have spent a long time investigating this world
    Yes, ok, you can spare me the details of why. These things are deeply deeply personal.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    "Russian military spokesperson Maj Gen Igor Konashenkov claimed on Saturday that Moscow had suffered no casualties during the invasion."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60517447

    if you're going to bullshit at least be realistic about it. Might as well claim Putin was elected with 100% of the vote.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,688

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Shibboleth is the classic.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    Carnyx said:

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The one that seriously sets my teeth on edge is “Syne” - who the feck put a Z in it?
    The real test is to ask a Southron to describe the route from Milngavie to Rutherglen and then Anstruther.
    I've done the branch to Milngavie, back in October 2018.
    Here's one to pencil in on the future target list - looks like a nice trundle along the shore of the Forth.

    https://www.railscot.co.uk/news/17/624/
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    Just so we are clear here, the Russian attack on Ukraine isn't going badly wrong because some people thought the place would be taken over in 48 hours. The assault on Kiev as yet hasn't hit full pelt but isn't yet a disaster. The attack in the south east is going ok. Only the North Eastern/Eastern assaults appear initially to have gone badly in the first stages. If there is one failure though its the suppression of air defences. I'm not sure how much of the Ukrainian airforce is left but the ground based air defence appears to be functioning. Russia has large air superiority but doesn't seem to have applied it as you'd think they would. Whether its that they haven't or can't is an open question.

    If Kiev is under effective Russian control in a week and the country (or whatever part of it Putin is aiming for) is under effective control within 3 weeks that's still good going. Plus the Russians have more formations to play and stories have it the Belarussians are apparently due to commit their forces in next 48-72 hours after Russian demands of old President Big Hat. Its not known if the Ukrainians have the anywhere between 50-75k of reservists fully committed either admittedly but the assumption they have less cards to play.

    There was a post last night on attacking the Russian logistical tail as both a tactical and strategic aim and I mentioned that I'd not seen much evidence of it. Today there is some evidence of this occurring, columns of fuel vehicles, engineering kit and so on being destroyed/abandoned, largely it seems, via airstrikes.

    From a wider point of view if the West is shipping substantial kit via South East Poland what are the Russians going to do to interdict it and where are they going to try it? |Anyone who follows the aircraft tracking sites can't help but see US tankers up in the air frequently in that part of Poland. Part of that is supporting air intelligence craft but part of it is refuelling fighter aircraft that appear to be providing an air screen over the main logistics hub.

    If continued high-grade supplies of anti armour and anti-air weaponry can get to the likes of Kiev, its going to get messy, especially since the Russians look to be on for some kind of large scale heliborne assault somewhere in that area. The possibility of losing several tens of aircraft over a week or so is a lot to contend with. Can the West, though, really move with enough speed?

    As for the reported Bosphorus Straits closure that's a real wildcard. Hard to know its impact.


  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I cannot understand why a conservative party leadership election taking upto 8 weeks at this time of war could be justified or indeed accepted by the voters

    When the PM is an incompetent buffoon, I cannot understand why you would want him in post for a second longer
    I agree with BigG that right now is not quite the time. This will have largely played out in a week or 2 and the key focus will have to be how to stop Putin going any further and Johnson needs to be got shot of right away because he won't bother putting in the hard work to achieve that objective.

    In truth the Conservative Party should never have allowed the Brexit issue to blind it into choosing an incompetent, weak and dishonest leader. However we are where we are and at the end of the day Johnson is only a buffoon and is not in the same evil and dangerous category as Trump.

    The Tories need to act sooner rather than later once this is over. We are stuck with Brexit now and If they cannot now see that he is not the right leader for a pandemic or an international crisis then they never will and any further disasters will be on their heads.
    If the Tories had not picked Boris in 2019, the Brexit Party would still have stood candidates in Tory seats, the Tories would not have got a majority, Brexit would still not have got done and Corbyn would still be Labour leader
    The fact that Johnson is the PM rests squarely with Tory MPs and Tory members. Once we lets had a choice between him and Corbyn the game was already over.

    Even if I accept your scenario for the sake of argument, what is stopping the party getting rid of him now? Brexit's "done", Corbyn's gone - hardly anyone believes he is fit for office but only Tory MPs have the power to remove him. What is stopping them?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    It’s a perfectly legitimate view. One held by Emmanuel Macron, I believe

    The Putin of 10 years ago was a very different beast. Lucid, clever, sane. A ruthless patriot, a brutal soldier, but amenable to logic. Perhaps we could have handled him better; certainly our rapid expansion of NATO right up to his borders, immediately after the humiliating collapse of the USSR now appears questionable

    Does any of this excuse Putin’s satanic and pointless assault on Ukraine? Of course not. It’s pure evil. It’s also pointless even for mad dog Putin, it might well backfire quickly and even if he “wins” in the short term he loses in the end. What’s the endgame for him? I can’t see a good one
    Your analysis doesn't account for the long gap -- some 6-8 years -- between the Baltic states' accession to NATO and Putin going "bad".

    It's easy to compress timelines when looking at the past, but Putin was acting fairly sensibly long after 2004. All the attempts to explain this in terms of NATO membership or the Iraq war fall down on the same point, and until someone even tries to account for that huge time lag, I do not take such a view seriously.
    You might be right. I’d have to go back and look
    at the timelines. But we agree there was a time when Putin was “sensible” - and that seems to be Liddle’s point (tho I haven’t read the article, just the headline, and Liddle does say some foolish things to provoke)

    Either way Andrew Neil is quite right. One big reason we hate the new mad Putin is that he wants to crush free speech and dissent. Free speech means seeing printed opinions you might fiercely dislike
    Free speech also means being allowed to whine about Woke and being cancelled when someone highlights all-to-predictable contrarianism, or in this case just reproduces an image of the headline of an article. Then everyone can point & laugh at those whiners and their endless attempts to pretend being challenged is some kind of censorship.

    It’s great.
    In my experience, criticism of the Spectator nearly always comes from a peculiar subset of people who genuinely dislike its viewpoint yet secretly would love to be published inside it, as it is so prestigious. A curious phenomenon
    It's interesting. A decade or so ago I was a regular reader of the Speccy and found it a pleasant zippy-in-places recreational read. I now see it as bow-tie reactionary faux man-of-the-world drivel you'd have to pay me serious money to allow through the letterbox. So, has it changed or have I changed? Bit of both, I guess, but I think it's mainly me. The last 10 or 12 years, coinciding with not having to earn a living, I've made a concerted effort to really *think* about things rather than forever chasing around in a daze, swilling coffee, running for trains and planes, and it's made a big difference. It's been the decade of my enlightenment - with my Spectator habit one of its minor casualties.
    On and off Speccie reader for decades. Currently off. A few reasons:

    Its diversity is good, but it currently lacks a coherent editorial world view. it should be the voice of a considered philosophically coherent conservatism. It isn't.

    Bias is good; but careful slanting of facts and fact selection isn't.

    It's too incestuous (politically) in its people makeup.

    It reviews too many incrowd/luvvie books and books which are not worth publishing (usually the same thing). Its 'arts' covers too much trashy self regarding junk.

    It shows insufficient regard for ordinary poor people and their lives and at the same time is not intelligent enough. (In this regard the NS is starting to overtake it - much improved recently).

    It has too much illiterate economics.

    Too many of its writers are self absorbed.

    I exempt Matthew Parris from all of this.

    PS You can get its gist online for free, but don't tell them.

    Alternatively, the editors at the Spectator have realised that the future of an intellectual, highly prestigious but ancient current affairs magazine lies in appealing to a younger net-savvy readership, not the elderly gents who populate PB?

    This would explain why so many of the pensioners on here have decided it is in decline, yet mysteriously it is racking up record sales, unlike almost every other printed journal in the western world
    I remember A. Neils approach to marketing his sales figures...



    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1357717251231776770?s=20

    And when you remove the Libdem filter...

    image


    I've genuinely never heard of The Week.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The one that seriously sets my teeth on edge is “Syne” - who the feck put a Z in it?
    The real test is to ask a Southron to describe the route from Milngavie to Rutherglen and then Anstruther.
    I've done the branch to Milngavie, back in October 2018.
    Here's one to pencil in on the future target list - looks like a nice trundle along the shore of the Forth.

    https://www.railscot.co.uk/news/17/624/
    I managed to get as far as Alloa (from the Stirling side) in September 2019.

    Next week (the 6th) will be two years since my last Scottish rail expedition - Aberdeen to Inverness via Keith.

    Sadly, the pandemic has stopped me doing everything west and north of Inverness!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400

    ping said:

    I wonder if, what ultimately will do it for Putin, is the last few years of budget cuts etc, that have enabled him to balance his budget and build up his war chest.

    He’ll have to rely on ever greater repression to stifle dissent. That strategy has its limits.

    If he gets bogged down in an expensive war, what does he do, then?

    Slashing budgets further - along with shaking down the oligarchs is pretty high risk, but that’s probably what he’ll have to do.

    Interesting times for Vlad.

    Vlad is being impaled on his own decisions.
    Nice one 👍🏻
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,537

    Tres said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    The Spectator seems increasingly to be pushing an anti-British viewpoint. But why?
    There's probably some psychology at play. For years the Speccie crowd has been yearning for Britain to be ruled by, if not Boris, someone like him. Now the great man himself is in charge and it isn't all it was cracked up to be. That must be a hellava coming down.
    People across the political spectrum are being brutally disabused of closely held beliefs.

    A clown does not make a Prime Minister in troubled times.
    British military equipment is highly effective.
    People will fight and die for their country.
    Nuclear alliances bring peace.
    The rush to renewables has undermined the west.
    Macho politicians are just thugs.
    The French have balls.
    There is a limit to corporate greed.
    Western intelligence is really good.

    And so on.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,270

    Penz has gone full Truss (and not looking glaikit she probably pulls off the Thatch tribute act a bit more succesfully)..


    On the eve of WW3 the next Tory PM runners and riders are jockeying for position.

    As you were.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Penz has gone full Truss (and not looking glaikit she probably pulls off the Thatch tribute act a bit more succesfully)..


    My saver bet (hedging SKS and Sunak) for Next PM - and with how her price has moved since it's one I'm glad I did rather than wish I hadn't.
    Flattering photo of her. Very well taken and chosen

    She looks like a much hotter version of Le Pen, and a sexier more dominatrix version of mid-period Thatch

    Clever PR
    !!
    Thatcher always looked best when ovulating. Like most women
    Is that down to the pheromones ovulating women give off, altering the blokes' perception of what we'd be prepared to shag?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,905
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Penz has gone full Truss (and not looking glaikit she probably pulls off the Thatch tribute act a bit more succesfully)..


    My saver bet (hedging SKS and Sunak) for Next PM - and with how her price has moved since it's one I'm glad I did rather than wish I hadn't.
    Flattering photo of her. Very well taken and chosen

    She looks like a much hotter version of Le Pen, and a sexier more dominatrix version of mid-period Thatch

    Clever PR
    Surprised you can detect "dominatrix" just from the face.
    I literally can. I’ll spare you the deets of why

    It’s not my taste but I have spent a long time investigating this world
    Presented without comment
    https://knowingless.com/2021/10/26/political-compass-fetishes/
    Who could have guessed that liberal left men are into being cuckolded?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    https://twitter.com/pmakela1/status/1497572617800331267

    Another Rosgvardiya (riot police) convoy of troop transports, torched with their cargo inside, this time in the East.

    Convoy was seen approaching the border earlier today:

    https://twitter.com/fpleitgenCNN/status/1497504471277969417

    Russia are doing a *really* bad job of securing areas and defending vulnerable convoys.

    Meanwhile CIT report on the Rosgvardiya convoy destroyed in Kyiv that Ukr MoD posted such a graphic video of.

    https://twitter.com/CITeam_en/status/1497573785414901760 (thread)

    They dashed past the army before getting ambushed, and slain. Seems like either Russian comms are diabolical, or the national guard are trying to one up the army.
  • Today I authorized the @DeptofDefense to provide an additional $350 million in immediate military assistance to Ukraine to help defend itself from Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified war. #UnitedWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1497562842735812608
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Penz has gone full Truss (and not looking glaikit she probably pulls off the Thatch tribute act a bit more succesfully)..


    My saver bet (hedging SKS and Sunak) for Next PM - and with how her price has moved since it's one I'm glad I did rather than wish I hadn't.
    Flattering photo of her. Very well taken and chosen

    She looks like a much hotter version of Le Pen, and a sexier more dominatrix version of mid-period Thatch

    Clever PR
    !!
    Thatcher always looked best when ovulating. Like most women
    Is that down to the pheromones ovulating women give off, altering the blokes' perception of what we'd be prepared to shag?
    Bit difficult on TV. UNless one has a scratch'n'sniff model.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    Leeds continuing to slip slide away....
  • Yokes said:


    As for the reported Bosphorus Straits closure that's a real wildcard. Hard to know its impact.

    I think it’s “requested” rather than “implemented” - bit like the no fly zone.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Blimey...

    David Clark 🇺🇦

    @David_K_Clark·3h

    The Russians are struggling and taking heavy casualties. They are beatable. Our best chance to defeat Putin’s threat to Europe is now. We should be giving Ukraine everything it wants. Despite the risks, that should include a no-fly zone. Putin’s victory would be the greater risk.

    https://twitter.com/David_K_Clark/status/1497490959235440641


    David Clark 🇺🇦
    @David_K_Clark·3h

    He will not nuke us because we’ve shot down some of his planes.

    Fucking ludicrous. To do a No Fly Zone you've got to be prepared to a) shoot down Russian aircraft and b) do SEAD/DEAD on the Russian side of the border.

    NFZ is basically speedrunning the process of going to war with Russia.
    I'd be worried if a mindset that denigrates any solution not flirting with WW3 as "appeasement" starts to take hold in influential places.
    Russia is literally flirting with WW3. By invading Ukraine. There is no getting away from that.
    I sort-of think we should change the word 'Russia' for 'Putin'.

    I'm far from convinced the Russian people are into this.

    We're dealing with someone who has gone doolally.
    As I said below, I starting doing that about 24 hours ago, but it now means the only person I want to die is Putin, I don’t want any combatants to die, I want them to have children they proudly watch play international football between the two countries, and that don’t happen if they don’t get home to their partners, so it leaves you unable to follow it and feeling very confused and emotional.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    A tweet asking people in Ukraine to turn around signs or obscure street information to confuse the Russians.

    Quite a use of social media by the Ukrainian military and just another example of how much has changed in warfare in the Twitter age.
    https://twitter.com/defenceu/status/1497573115550961670
  • Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Penz has gone full Truss (and not looking glaikit she probably pulls off the Thatch tribute act a bit more succesfully)..


    My saver bet (hedging SKS and Sunak) for Next PM - and with how her price has moved since it's one I'm glad I did rather than wish I hadn't.
    Flattering photo of her. Very well taken and chosen

    She looks like a much hotter version of Le Pen, and a sexier more dominatrix version of mid-period Thatch

    Clever PR
    More like the BBC's latest recruit to Dragon's Den.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,575
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    It’s a perfectly legitimate view. One held by Emmanuel Macron, I believe

    The Putin of 10 years ago was a very different beast. Lucid, clever, sane. A ruthless patriot, a brutal soldier, but amenable to logic. Perhaps we could have handled him better; certainly our rapid expansion of NATO right up to his borders, immediately after the humiliating collapse of the USSR now appears questionable

    Does any of this excuse Putin’s satanic and pointless assault on Ukraine? Of course not. It’s pure evil. It’s also pointless even for mad dog Putin, it might well backfire quickly and even if he “wins” in the short term he loses in the end. What’s the endgame for him? I can’t see a good one
    Your analysis doesn't account for the long gap -- some 6-8 years -- between the Baltic states' accession to NATO and Putin going "bad".

    It's easy to compress timelines when looking at the past, but Putin was acting fairly sensibly long after 2004. All the attempts to explain this in terms of NATO membership or the Iraq war fall down on the same point, and until someone even tries to account for that huge time lag, I do not take such a view seriously.
    You might be right. I’d have to go back and look
    at the timelines. But we agree there was a time when Putin was “sensible” - and that seems to be Liddle’s point (tho I haven’t read the article, just the headline, and Liddle does say some foolish things to provoke)

    Either way Andrew Neil is quite right. One big reason we hate the new mad Putin is that he wants to crush free speech and dissent. Free speech means seeing printed opinions you might fiercely dislike
    Free speech also means being allowed to whine about Woke and being cancelled when someone highlights all-to-predictable contrarianism, or in this case just reproduces an image of the headline of an article. Then everyone can point & laugh at those whiners and their endless attempts to pretend being challenged is some kind of censorship.

    It’s great.
    In my experience, criticism of the Spectator nearly always comes from a peculiar subset of people who genuinely dislike its viewpoint yet secretly would love to be published inside it, as it is so prestigious. A curious phenomenon
    It's interesting. A decade or so ago I was a regular reader of the Speccy and found it a pleasant zippy-in-places recreational read. I now see it as bow-tie reactionary faux man-of-the-world drivel you'd have to pay me serious money to allow through the letterbox. So, has it changed or have I changed? Bit of both, I guess, but I think it's mainly me. The last 10 or 12 years, coinciding with not having to earn a living, I've made a concerted effort to really *think* about things rather than forever chasing around in a daze, swilling coffee, running for trains and planes, and it's made a big difference. It's been the decade of my enlightenment - with my Spectator habit one of its minor casualties.
    On and off Speccie reader for decades. Currently off. A few reasons:

    Its diversity is good, but it currently lacks a coherent editorial world view. it should be the voice of a considered philosophically coherent conservatism. It isn't.

    Bias is good; but careful slanting of facts and fact selection isn't.

    It's too incestuous (politically) in its people makeup.

    It reviews too many incrowd/luvvie books and books which are not worth publishing (usually the same thing). Its 'arts' covers too much trashy self regarding junk.

    It shows insufficient regard for ordinary poor people and their lives and at the same time is not intelligent enough. (In this regard the NS is starting to overtake it - much improved recently).

    It has too much illiterate economics.

    Too many of its writers are self absorbed.

    I exempt Matthew Parris from all of this.

    PS You can get its gist online for free, but don't tell them.

    Alternatively, the editors at the Spectator have realised that the future of an intellectual, highly prestigious but ancient current affairs magazine lies in appealing to a younger net-savvy readership, not the elderly gents who populate PB?

    This would explain why so many of the pensioners on here have decided it is in decline, yet mysteriously it is racking up record sales, unlike almost every other printed journal in the western world
    I remember A. Neils approach to marketing his sales figures...



    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1357717251231776770?s=20

    And when you remove the Libdem filter...

    image


    I've genuinely never heard of The Week.
    On current trends The Spectator will overtake Private Eye some time around my 8yo's 30th birthday!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,907

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The Leith police dismisseth us.
    The Met stop and search us.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Yokes said:


    As for the reported Bosphorus Straits closure that's a real wildcard. Hard to know its impact.

    I think it’s “requested” rather than “implemented” - bit like the no fly zone.
    It would be a clear violation of the Montreux Convention, and the Turkish FM has pointed that out. OTOH Erdogan does not like being bound by the convention, hence the building of the new ship canal which would be a Turkish sovereign internal waterway.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,650

    Seems Russian warships may be banned from the Black sea.

    I thank my friend Mr. President of 🇹🇷 @RTErdogan and the people of 🇹🇷 for their strong support. The ban on the passage of 🇷🇺 warships to the Black Sea and significant military and humanitarian support for 🇺🇦 are extremely important today. The people of 🇺🇦 will never forget that!

    https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1497564078897774598

    This may not be accurate....

    “Turkey hasn’t made a decision to close the straits to Russian ships yet,” a senior Turkish official tells me
    https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1497569348386496513?s=21
  • Scott_xP said:

    A tweet asking people in Ukraine to turn around signs or obscure street information to confuse the Russians.

    Quite a use of social media by the Ukrainian military and just another example of how much has changed in warfare in the Twitter age.
    https://twitter.com/defenceu/status/1497573115550961670

    and just how much Sat Nav has changed navigation in warfare so armies do not rely on signs
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
  • Heathener said:


    I sort-of think we should change the word 'Russia' for 'Putin'.

    I'm far from convinced the Russian people are into this.

    We're dealing with someone who has gone doolally.

    As I said below, I starting doing that about 24 hours ago, but it now means the only person I want to die is Putin, I don’t want any combatants to die, I want them to have children they proudly watch play international football between the two countries, and that don’t happen if they don’t get home to their partners, so it leaves you unable to follow it and feeling very confused and emotional.
    In Europe and America there's a growing feeling of hysteria
    Conditioned to respond to all the threats
    In the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets
    Mister Krushchev said, "We will bury you"
    I don't subscribe to this point of view
    It'd be such an ignorant thing to do
    If the Russians love their children too
    How can I save my little boy from Oppenheimer's deadly toy?
    There is no monopoly on common sense
    On either side of the political fence
    We share the same biology, regardless of ideology
    Believe me when I say to you
    I hope the Russians love their children too
    There is no historical precedent
    To put the words in the mouth of the president?
    There's no such thing as a winnable war
    It's a lie we don't believe anymore
    Mister Reagan says, "We will protect you"
    I don't subscribe to this point of view
    Believe me when I say to you
    I hope the Russians love their children too
    We share the same biology, regardless of ideology
    But what might save us, me and you
    Is if the Russians love their children too

    Songwriters: Gordon Sumner / Serge Prokofieff
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,907
    Carnyx said:

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The one that seriously sets my teeth on edge is “Syne” - who the feck put a Z in it?
    The real test is to ask a Southron to describe the route from Milngavie to Rutherglen and then Anstruther.
    Via Strathaven.
  • Hot knife through butter by France.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,650
    edited February 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    A tweet asking people in Ukraine to turn around signs or obscure street information to confuse the Russians.

    Quite a use of social media by the Ukrainian military and just another example of how much has changed in warfare in the Twitter age.
    https://twitter.com/defenceu/status/1497573115550961670

    and just how much Sat Nav has changed navigation in warfare so armies do not rely on signs
    I'm not sure if the convoys will be using sat nav. Might be traceable. lots of western drones hanging around and I'm sure the Americans will be v-good at intercepting satellite signals
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    It’s a perfectly legitimate view. One held by Emmanuel Macron, I believe

    The Putin of 10 years ago was a very different beast. Lucid, clever, sane. A ruthless patriot, a brutal soldier, but amenable to logic. Perhaps we could have handled him better; certainly our rapid expansion of NATO right up to his borders, immediately after the humiliating collapse of the USSR now appears questionable

    Does any of this excuse Putin’s satanic and pointless assault on Ukraine? Of course not. It’s pure evil. It’s also pointless even for mad dog Putin, it might well backfire quickly and even if he “wins” in the short term he loses in the end. What’s the endgame for him? I can’t see a good one
    Your analysis doesn't account for the long gap -- some 6-8 years -- between the Baltic states' accession to NATO and Putin going "bad".

    It's easy to compress timelines when looking at the past, but Putin was acting fairly sensibly long after 2004. All the attempts to explain this in terms of NATO membership or the Iraq war fall down on the same point, and until someone even tries to account for that huge time lag, I do not take such a view seriously.
    You might be right. I’d have to go back and look
    at the timelines. But we agree there was a time when Putin was “sensible” - and that seems to be Liddle’s point (tho I haven’t read the article, just the headline, and Liddle does say some foolish things to provoke)

    Either way Andrew Neil is quite right. One big reason we hate the new mad Putin is that he wants to crush free speech and dissent. Free speech means seeing printed opinions you might fiercely dislike
    Free speech also means being allowed to whine about Woke and being cancelled when someone highlights all-to-predictable contrarianism, or in this case just reproduces an image of the headline of an article. Then everyone can point & laugh at those whiners and their endless attempts to pretend being challenged is some kind of censorship.

    It’s great.
    In my experience, criticism of the Spectator nearly always comes from a peculiar subset of people who genuinely dislike its viewpoint yet secretly would love to be published inside it, as it is so prestigious. A curious phenomenon
    It's interesting. A decade or so ago I was a regular reader of the Speccy and found it a pleasant zippy-in-places recreational read. I now see it as bow-tie reactionary faux man-of-the-world drivel you'd have to pay me serious money to allow through the letterbox. So, has it changed or have I changed? Bit of both, I guess, but I think it's mainly me. The last 10 or 12 years, coinciding with not having to earn a living, I've made a concerted effort to really *think* about things rather than forever chasing around in a daze, swilling coffee, running for trains and planes, and it's made a big difference. It's been the decade of my enlightenment - with my Spectator habit one of its minor casualties.
    lol. It seems to be coping without your subscription
    Maybe They must be paying for cheaper, step down in quality, hacks.
    I doubt they need to. The Speccy has a subscription of 112,000 and rising.

    It is also now the longest running current affairs magazine in history.
    It wasn’t an attack on Specy I been reading it for years, it was a cheeky quip aimed at, as it says down thread, recent contributor…

    My cheeky quips never seem to work. Humour fail. 🤦‍♀️
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The Leith police dismisseth us.
    The Met stop and search us.
    My sat nav driving around Aberdeenshire used to tell me to turn on to Farochie Road (satnav pronounced the 'ch' as in satchel, it's actually pronounced as in hockey), and I was only later disabused of this notion by people laughing at my pronunciation of it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Scott_xP said:

    A tweet asking people in Ukraine to turn around signs or obscure street information to confuse the Russians.

    Quite a use of social media by the Ukrainian military and just another example of how much has changed in warfare in the Twitter age.
    https://twitter.com/defenceu/status/1497573115550961670

    and just how much Sat Nav has changed navigation in warfare so armies do not rely on signs
    Rely on street signs? I dimly recall something called a “map” from a few years back?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332

    Yokes said:


    As for the reported Bosphorus Straits closure that's a real wildcard. Hard to know its impact.

    I think it’s “requested” rather than “implemented” - bit like the no fly zone.
    Indeed, it has not occurred and it would be a 'could be anything' development if it did.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    "Russian military spokesperson Maj Gen Igor Konashenkov claimed on Saturday that Moscow had suffered no casualties during the invasion."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60517447

    if you're going to bullshit at least be realistic about it. Might as well claim Putin was elected with 100% of the vote.

    Well in some places Putin won 102% of the vote according to the 'official' results at the last election, so who knows!!!!
  • DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    A tweet asking people in Ukraine to turn around signs or obscure street information to confuse the Russians.

    Quite a use of social media by the Ukrainian military and just another example of how much has changed in warfare in the Twitter age.
    https://twitter.com/defenceu/status/1497573115550961670

    and just how much Sat Nav has changed navigation in warfare so armies do not rely on signs
    Rely on street signs? I dimly recall something called a “map” from a few years back?
    "What's that, then, Ted?"
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332

    Scott_xP said:

    A tweet asking people in Ukraine to turn around signs or obscure street information to confuse the Russians.

    Quite a use of social media by the Ukrainian military and just another example of how much has changed in warfare in the Twitter age.
    https://twitter.com/defenceu/status/1497573115550961670

    and just how much Sat Nav has changed navigation in warfare so armies do not rely on signs
    Actually the grunt still sometimes needs real physical indicators. There are plenty of stories of military units in the GPS era still getting lost. There is also an assumption that GLONASS will always be working. That kind of thing can be interfered with if a proper state actor put a bit of thought into it.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited February 2022
    Kyiv under curfew for 15 hours in half an hours time - 5pm to 8am, extended from 10pm to 7am. Another long night for Kyiv's civilians, especially as electricity is expected to be put down.

    Edit: https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1497580512638083081

    Just been extended to be continuous until Monday 8am. 39 hours of curfew.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306
    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    Russia denies Chief of General Staff Gerasimov has been sacked. So it may well be true.

    Whoever would have thought they might need a new Doctrine?


    https://ura.news/articles/1036278272
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400

    Yokes said:


    As for the reported Bosphorus Straits closure that's a real wildcard. Hard to know its impact.

    I think it’s “requested” rather than “implemented” - bit like the no fly zone.
    Turkish are claiming closed.
    Russia claiming “no one’s told us”
    Response to that is “fuck off Russian warship”

    So what is the impact? Surely Russians have everything place now they were steaming some across med last few days?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,575
    Roger said:

    I came on here expecting to read about the subject everyones's talking about -electoral reform in Alaska-and there's still nothing.

    Post of the day!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306

    Carnyx said:

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The one that seriously sets my teeth on edge is “Syne” - who the feck put a Z in it?
    The real test is to ask a Southron to describe the route from Milngavie to Rutherglen and then Anstruther.
    Via Strathaven.
    I know (forgive me paraphrasing) Mulgai and Ainster, but how are Rutherglen and Strathaven pronounced?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,650
    Seems the SWIFT stuff might well be happening.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306
    Roger said:

    I came on here expecting to read about the subject everyones's talking about -electoral reform in Alaska-and there's still nothing.

    There was a half-baked attempt, but it all went meringue.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Scott_xP said:

    A tweet asking people in Ukraine to turn around signs or obscure street information to confuse the Russians.

    Quite a use of social media by the Ukrainian military and just another example of how much has changed in warfare in the Twitter age.
    https://twitter.com/defenceu/status/1497573115550961670

    and just how much Sat Nav has changed navigation in warfare so armies do not rely on signs
    We have plenty of evidence of Russian troops getting lost and asking civilians for directions.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    "China announces "military exercises" in the South China Sea across a 6-nautical-mile-radius from Sunday to Tuesday."

    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1497578120232288256
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2022
    I've followed EU affairs from close and far for over a decade and I can't recall anything like this. Polish PM gatecrashes Berlin to lobby for sanctions.

    Prime Minister @MorawieckiM in #Berlin 🇩🇪:

    Today there is no time for the selfishness that we see also here in #Germany.

    This is why I came to @OlafScholz to shake Germany's conscience so that they decide on firm and crushing sanctions that would influence Putin's decisions.

    https://twitter.com/spignal/status/1497560481921482752
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    Yokes said:

    Just so we are clear here, the Russian attack on Ukraine isn't going badly wrong because some people thought the place would be taken over in 48 hours. The assault on Kiev as yet hasn't hit full pelt but isn't yet a disaster. The attack in the south east is going ok. Only the North Eastern/Eastern assaults appear initially to have gone badly in the first stages. If there is one failure though its the suppression of air defences. I'm not sure how much of the Ukrainian airforce is left but the ground based air defence appears to be functioning. Russia has large air superiority but doesn't seem to have applied it as you'd think they would. Whether its that they haven't or can't is an open question.

    If Kiev is under effective Russian control in a week and the country (or whatever part of it Putin is aiming for) is under effective control within 3 weeks that's still good going. Plus the Russians have more formations to play and stories have it the Belarussians are apparently due to commit their forces in next 48-72 hours after Russian demands of old President Big Hat. Its not known if the Ukrainians have the anywhere between 50-75k of reservists fully committed either admittedly but the assumption they have less cards to play.

    There was a post last night on attacking the Russian logistical tail as both a tactical and strategic aim and I mentioned that I'd not seen much evidence of it. Today there is some evidence of this occurring, columns of fuel vehicles, engineering kit and so on being destroyed/abandoned, largely it seems, via airstrikes.

    From a wider point of view if the West is shipping substantial kit via South East Poland what are the Russians going to do to interdict it and where are they going to try it? |Anyone who follows the aircraft tracking sites can't help but see US tankers up in the air frequently in that part of Poland. Part of that is supporting air intelligence craft but part of it is refuelling fighter aircraft that appear to be providing an air screen over the main logistics hub.

    If continued high-grade supplies of anti armour and anti-air weaponry can get to the likes of Kiev, its going to get messy, especially since the Russians look to be on for some kind of large scale heliborne assault somewhere in that area. The possibility of losing several tens of aircraft over a week or so is a lot to contend with. Can the West, though, really move with enough speed?

    As for the reported Bosphorus Straits closure that's a real wildcard. Hard to know its impact.


    Brilliant update. Thank you. 🙏🏻
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    It looks as if the Russians are in the process of a successful encirclement of Ukrainian forces on the south east coast opposite Crimea.
  • Carnyx said:

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The one that seriously sets my teeth on edge is “Syne” - who the feck put a Z in it?
    The real test is to ask a Southron to describe the route from Milngavie to Rutherglen and then Anstruther.
    Via Strathaven.
    I know (forgive me paraphrasing) Mulgai and Ainster, but how are Rutherglen and Strathaven pronounced?
    Ruh-thir-glen and Straiven imo (other opinions will definitely be available)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833
    I just received a text from a Ukrainian friend of ours that apparently the invading Russian troops headed to Kyiv was outpacing its supply line and got lost. So apparently they went and started asking for direction how to get to Kyiv, and consequently were arrested and are now prisoners of war.
  • I spoke to @markrutte this afternoon to thank him for strong cooperation in ensuring a supply of defensive aid to Ukraine. We discussed SWIFT and the need for urgent action to exclude Russia. The UK and the Netherlands are united in our condemnation of Putin’s attack on Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1497583637822328832
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306

    Carnyx said:

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The one that seriously sets my teeth on edge is “Syne” - who the feck put a Z in it?
    The real test is to ask a Southron to describe the route from Milngavie to Rutherglen and then Anstruther.
    Via Strathaven.
    I know (forgive me paraphrasing) Mulgai and Ainster, but how are Rutherglen and Strathaven pronounced?
    Ruh-thir-glen and Straiven imo (other opinions will definitely be available)
    Ace. Possibly saved me a future withering glance. There's a place in Perthshire called Grandtully, but actually pronounced Grantly. It trips everyone up.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Russia has a gigantic nuclear arsenal and control of it rests in the hands of a delusional, megalomaniacal, paranoid fascist lunatic. And if, pray God, the bastard dies before he decides to go down in a blaze of glory and turn us all to ash with him, then whatever comes after him likely won't be very much better.

    The West can play the long game with China, with a reasonable degree of confidence that it won't end with us all dying horribly. Russia, on the other hand, is a lost cause. It is the land of despots, it's a vicious antagonist, and the leopard won't change its spots. And, since we can't defang the leopard - we can't wish its nuclear weapons away, sadly - then the next best thing we can do is try to cage it. All of the doors between civilized Europe and the Russian Federation should be slammed and welded shut.
  • Most encouraging thing about recent Scotland performances is that they don’t wilt when they go behind early. France are fecking good tho’.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Russia denies Chief of General Staff Gerasimov has been sacked. So it may well be true.

    Whoever would have thought they might need a new Doctrine?


    https://ura.news/articles/1036278272

    Not prepared to go full Tonto?

    Likely bad news for Ukraine if true. His replacement will no doubt have given Putin assurances that the job will done, "WHATEVER IT TAKES...."
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    IanB2 said:

    I just received a text from a Ukrainian friend of ours that apparently the invading Russian troops headed to Kyiv was outpacing its supply line and got lost. So apparently they went and started asking for direction how to get to Kyiv, and consequently were arrested and are now prisoners of war.

    In that sort of context, you can see why the locals fucking about with the road signs could actually be useful.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/pmakela1/status/1497572617800331267

    Another Rosgvardiya (riot police) convoy of troop transports, torched with their cargo inside, this time in the East.

    Convoy was seen approaching the border earlier today:

    https://twitter.com/fpleitgenCNN/status/1497504471277969417

    Russia are doing a *really* bad job of securing areas and defending vulnerable convoys.

    Meanwhile CIT report on the Rosgvardiya convoy destroyed in Kyiv that Ukr MoD posted such a graphic video of.

    https://twitter.com/CITeam_en/status/1497573785414901760 (thread)

    They dashed past the army before getting ambushed, and slain. Seems like either Russian comms are diabolical, or the national guard are trying to one up the army.

    Just a question, and don't what to be downbeat, but is there any possibility that some of these videos we keep seeing of destroyed Russian vehicles and convoys are actually Ukrainian?

    I really hope not, but I think they have much of the same equipment?
  • Yokes said:

    It looks as if the Russians are in the process of a successful encirclement of Ukrainian forces on the south east coast opposite Crimea.

    Map on Wiki:

    image
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,162
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    It’s a perfectly legitimate view. One held by Emmanuel Macron, I believe

    The Putin of 10 years ago was a very different beast. Lucid, clever, sane. A ruthless patriot, a brutal soldier, but amenable to logic. Perhaps we could have handled him better; certainly our rapid expansion of NATO right up to his borders, immediately after the humiliating collapse of the USSR now appears questionable

    Does any of this excuse Putin’s satanic and pointless assault on Ukraine? Of course not. It’s pure evil. It’s also pointless even for mad dog Putin, it might well backfire quickly and even if he “wins” in the short term he loses in the end. What’s the endgame for him? I can’t see a good one
    Your analysis doesn't account for the long gap -- some 6-8 years -- between the Baltic states' accession to NATO and Putin going "bad".

    It's easy to compress timelines when looking at the past, but Putin was acting fairly sensibly long after 2004. All the attempts to explain this in terms of NATO membership or the Iraq war fall down on the same point, and until someone even tries to account for that huge time lag, I do not take such a view seriously.
    You might be right. I’d have to go back and look
    at the timelines. But we agree there was a time when Putin was “sensible” - and that seems to be Liddle’s point (tho I haven’t read the article, just the headline, and Liddle does say some foolish things to provoke)

    Either way Andrew Neil is quite right. One big reason we hate the new mad Putin is that he wants to crush free speech and dissent. Free speech means seeing printed opinions you might fiercely dislike
    Free speech also means being allowed to whine about Woke and being cancelled when someone highlights all-to-predictable contrarianism, or in this case just reproduces an image of the headline of an article. Then everyone can point & laugh at those whiners and their endless attempts to pretend being challenged is some kind of censorship.

    It’s great.
    In my experience, criticism of the Spectator nearly always comes from a peculiar subset of people who genuinely dislike its viewpoint yet secretly would love to be published inside it, as it is so prestigious. A curious phenomenon
    It's interesting. A decade or so ago I was a regular reader of the Speccy and found it a pleasant zippy-in-places recreational read. I now see it as bow-tie reactionary faux man-of-the-world drivel you'd have to pay me serious money to allow through the letterbox. So, has it changed or have I changed? Bit of both, I guess, but I think it's mainly me. The last 10 or 12 years, coinciding with not having to earn a living, I've made a concerted effort to really *think* about things rather than forever chasing around in a daze, swilling coffee, running for trains and planes, and it's made a big difference. It's been the decade of my enlightenment - with my Spectator habit one of its minor casualties.
    On and off Speccie reader for decades. Currently off. A few reasons:

    Its diversity is good, but it currently lacks a coherent editorial world view. it should be the voice of a considered philosophically coherent conservatism. It isn't.

    Bias is good; but careful slanting of facts and fact selection isn't.

    It's too incestuous (politically) in its people makeup.

    It reviews too many incrowd/luvvie books and books which are not worth publishing (usually the same thing). Its 'arts' covers too much trashy self regarding junk.

    It shows insufficient regard for ordinary poor people and their lives and at the same time is not intelligent enough. (In this regard the NS is starting to overtake it - much improved recently).

    It has too much illiterate economics.

    Too many of its writers are self absorbed.

    I exempt Matthew Parris from all of this.

    PS You can get its gist online for free, but don't tell them.

    Alternatively, the editors at the Spectator have realised that the future of an intellectual, highly prestigious but ancient current affairs magazine lies in appealing to a younger net-savvy readership, not the elderly gents who populate PB?

    This would explain why so many of the pensioners on here have decided it is in decline, yet mysteriously it is racking up record sales, unlike almost every other printed journal in the western world
    I remember A. Neils approach to marketing his sales figures...



    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1357717251231776770?s=20

    And when you remove the Libdem filter...

    image


    I've genuinely never heard of The Week.
    Bit of a 7 day wonder....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Russia has a gigantic nuclear arsenal and control of it rests in the hands of a delusional, megalomaniacal, paranoid fascist lunatic. And if, pray God, the bastard dies before he decides to go down in a blaze of glory and turn us all to ash with him, then whatever comes after him likely won't be very much better.

    The West can play the long game with China, with a reasonable degree of confidence that it won't end with us all dying horribly. Russia, on the other hand, is a lost cause. It is the land of despots, it's a vicious antagonist, and the leopard won't change its spots. And, since we can't defang the leopard - we can't wish its nuclear weapons away, sadly - then the next best thing we can do is try to cage it. All of the doors between civilized Europe and the Russian Federation should be slammed and welded shut.
    I don't believe in lost causes.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833
    edited February 2022
    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    Mostly true. But you’ve broadened things somewhat, there, from the original point about London property.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    BigRich said:

    Just a question, and don't what to be downbeat, but is there any possibility that some of these videos we keep seeing of destroyed Russian vehicles and convoys are actually Ukrainian?

    I really hope not, but I think they have much of the same equipment?

    I think the white Z is the identification mark for the Russians
  • Carnyx said:

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The one that seriously sets my teeth on edge is “Syne” - who the feck put a Z in it?
    The real test is to ask a Southron to describe the route from Milngavie to Rutherglen and then Anstruther.
    Via Strathaven.
    I know (forgive me paraphrasing) Mulgai and Ainster, but how are Rutherglen and Strathaven pronounced?
    Ruh-thir-glen and Straiven imo (other opinions will definitely be available)
    Ace. Possibly saved me a future withering glance. There's a place in Perthshire called Grandtully, but actually pronounced Grantly. It trips everyone up.
    It would certainly trip me up.
    I dimly recall that there’s Stra’in option but might be a bit ambitious for non native Strathaveners.
  • Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    It’s a perfectly legitimate view. One held by Emmanuel Macron, I believe

    The Putin of 10 years ago was a very different beast. Lucid, clever, sane. A ruthless patriot, a brutal soldier, but amenable to logic. Perhaps we could have handled him better; certainly our rapid expansion of NATO right up to his borders, immediately after the humiliating collapse of the USSR now appears questionable

    Does any of this excuse Putin’s satanic and pointless assault on Ukraine? Of course not. It’s pure evil. It’s also pointless even for mad dog Putin, it might well backfire quickly and even if he “wins” in the short term he loses in the end. What’s the endgame for him? I can’t see a good one
    Your analysis doesn't account for the long gap -- some 6-8 years -- between the Baltic states' accession to NATO and Putin going "bad".

    It's easy to compress timelines when looking at the past, but Putin was acting fairly sensibly long after 2004. All the attempts to explain this in terms of NATO membership or the Iraq war fall down on the same point, and until someone even tries to account for that huge time lag, I do not take such a view seriously.
    You might be right. I’d have to go back and look
    at the timelines. But we agree there was a time when Putin was “sensible” - and that seems to be Liddle’s point (tho I haven’t read the article, just the headline, and Liddle does say some foolish things to provoke)

    Either way Andrew Neil is quite right. One big reason we hate the new mad Putin is that he wants to crush free speech and dissent. Free speech means seeing printed opinions you might fiercely dislike
    Free speech also means being allowed to whine about Woke and being cancelled when someone highlights all-to-predictable contrarianism, or in this case just reproduces an image of the headline of an article. Then everyone can point & laugh at those whiners and their endless attempts to pretend being challenged is some kind of censorship.

    It’s great.
    In my experience, criticism of the Spectator nearly always comes from a peculiar subset of people who genuinely dislike its viewpoint yet secretly would love to be published inside it, as it is so prestigious. A curious phenomenon
    It's interesting. A decade or so ago I was a regular reader of the Speccy and found it a pleasant zippy-in-places recreational read. I now see it as bow-tie reactionary faux man-of-the-world drivel you'd have to pay me serious money to allow through the letterbox. So, has it changed or have I changed? Bit of both, I guess, but I think it's mainly me. The last 10 or 12 years, coinciding with not having to earn a living, I've made a concerted effort to really *think* about things rather than forever chasing around in a daze, swilling coffee, running for trains and planes, and it's made a big difference. It's been the decade of my enlightenment - with my Spectator habit one of its minor casualties.
    On and off Speccie reader for decades. Currently off. A few reasons:

    Its diversity is good, but it currently lacks a coherent editorial world view. it should be the voice of a considered philosophically coherent conservatism. It isn't.

    Bias is good; but careful slanting of facts and fact selection isn't.

    It's too incestuous (politically) in its people makeup.

    It reviews too many incrowd/luvvie books and books which are not worth publishing (usually the same thing). Its 'arts' covers too much trashy self regarding junk.

    It shows insufficient regard for ordinary poor people and their lives and at the same time is not intelligent enough. (In this regard the NS is starting to overtake it - much improved recently).

    It has too much illiterate economics.

    Too many of its writers are self absorbed.

    I exempt Matthew Parris from all of this.

    PS You can get its gist online for free, but don't tell them.

    Alternatively, the editors at the Spectator have realised that the future of an intellectual, highly prestigious but ancient current affairs magazine lies in appealing to a younger net-savvy readership, not the elderly gents who populate PB?

    This would explain why so many of the pensioners on here have decided it is in decline, yet mysteriously it is racking up record sales, unlike almost every other printed journal in the western world
    The Spectator overtook the Guardian in sales for the first time ever last month.

    So, they're a little bit upset.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Russia denies Chief of General Staff Gerasimov has been sacked. So it may well be true.

    Whoever would have thought they might need a new Doctrine?


    https://ura.news/articles/1036278272

    Not prepared to go full Tonto?

    Likely bad news for Ukraine if true. His replacement will no doubt have given Putin assurances that the job will done, "WHATEVER IT TAKES...."
    "NOT ONE STEP BACK!"
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,162
    Roger said:

    I came on here expecting to read about the subject everyones's talking about -electoral reform in Alaska-and there's still nothing.

    Surely that one was 'Baked' in...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833

    Powerful. A Ukrainian approaches unknown soldiers and yells at them to say "palyanitsa". Realizing they're Russian, he tells them they can't tell him not to videotape, as Ukrainians constitution allows him to.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1497530385273602053

    I suppose an equivalent in Britain would be a Scot asking someone English to pronounce “loch”.

    Och aye!
    The Leith police dismisseth us.
    The Met stop and search us.
    My sat nav driving around Aberdeenshire used to tell me to turn on to Farochie Road (satnav pronounced the 'ch' as in satchel, it's actually pronounced as in hockey), and I was only later disabused of this notion by people laughing at my pronunciation of it.
    Use any British made satnav in Europe, and everything is pronounced as it is written were it an English word.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    DougSeal said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Just wondering. Is this a rare if not unique occasion of a geopolitical event completely uniting PB?

    Do we have a single PB-er cheering on Putin and the Russians? I can’t think of one

    A momentous unanimity. Which says something in itself given the wide variety of opinions on here

    You REALLY have to be a contrarian to be cheering on Putin.

    Or a Trumpist Republican.

    Be entertaining if Putin's greatest achievement is keeping the White House Democrat controlled for a couple of decades.
    Sadly, Plato is no longer with us.
    Is Contrarian himself still about? Haven’t seen him for a while.
    Misty is Contrarian.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887

    MattW said:

    Chameleon said:

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1497500029099118594

    Another Russian supply convoy wiped out.

    The baffling failure of Russian air power and ability to defend it's own supply lines make no sense. Mavbe he really did expect Ukraine to just roll over?

    I'm inclined to think that "somebody* on the Russian side is a little complacent, or over-confident.

    It must require a large number of assumptions about risk to line up 90 helicopters parked nose to tail on a road 20-25 miles inside Belarus.



    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2022/02/25/new-images-show-about-150-helicopters-large-ground-force-100-miles-from-kyiv/
    RAF Basingbourn (still an MOD site) is just down the road from me. It was home to B17 aircraft of the USAAF.

    Nearby there is a stately home, Wimpole Hall, which coincidentally had a wide two-mile long avenue stretching between it and the base. So the air force used it as distributed parking for their aircraft - and there are photos of these massive bombers arrayed along it.

    Whenever I walk the avenue, I think of what it must have been like with all those bombers there.

    https://www.wimpolepast.org/323rd_memorial.asp
    Do you have a link to a photograph of that? Fascinating.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Of course Russia is more of a threat to us than China. It is on the same continent as us for starters while China is on the other side of the world.

    Post vaccination Covid is also now much less of an issue. China may be more of a threat to Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and Australia than us, Russia is more of a threat to Europe and us however than China is
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,162

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Fck me, I immediately thought this was a piece from years ago, but last week. The Spikedtator..




    It’s a perfectly legitimate view. One held by Emmanuel Macron, I believe

    The Putin of 10 years ago was a very different beast. Lucid, clever, sane. A ruthless patriot, a brutal soldier, but amenable to logic. Perhaps we could have handled him better; certainly our rapid expansion of NATO right up to his borders, immediately after the humiliating collapse of the USSR now appears questionable

    Does any of this excuse Putin’s satanic and pointless assault on Ukraine? Of course not. It’s pure evil. It’s also pointless even for mad dog Putin, it might well backfire quickly and even if he “wins” in the short term he loses in the end. What’s the endgame for him? I can’t see a good one
    Your analysis doesn't account for the long gap -- some 6-8 years -- between the Baltic states' accession to NATO and Putin going "bad".

    It's easy to compress timelines when looking at the past, but Putin was acting fairly sensibly long after 2004. All the attempts to explain this in terms of NATO membership or the Iraq war fall down on the same point, and until someone even tries to account for that huge time lag, I do not take such a view seriously.
    You might be right. I’d have to go back and look
    at the timelines. But we agree there was a time when Putin was “sensible” - and that seems to be Liddle’s point (tho I haven’t read the article, just the headline, and Liddle does say some foolish things to provoke)

    Either way Andrew Neil is quite right. One big reason we hate the new mad Putin is that he wants to crush free speech and dissent. Free speech means seeing printed opinions you might fiercely dislike
    Free speech also means being allowed to whine about Woke and being cancelled when someone highlights all-to-predictable contrarianism, or in this case just reproduces an image of the headline of an article. Then everyone can point & laugh at those whiners and their endless attempts to pretend being challenged is some kind of censorship.

    It’s great.
    In my experience, criticism of the Spectator nearly always comes from a peculiar subset of people who genuinely dislike its viewpoint yet secretly would love to be published inside it, as it is so prestigious. A curious phenomenon
    It's interesting. A decade or so ago I was a regular reader of the Speccy and found it a pleasant zippy-in-places recreational read. I now see it as bow-tie reactionary faux man-of-the-world drivel you'd have to pay me serious money to allow through the letterbox. So, has it changed or have I changed? Bit of both, I guess, but I think it's mainly me. The last 10 or 12 years, coinciding with not having to earn a living, I've made a concerted effort to really *think* about things rather than forever chasing around in a daze, swilling coffee, running for trains and planes, and it's made a big difference. It's been the decade of my enlightenment - with my Spectator habit one of its minor casualties.
    On and off Speccie reader for decades. Currently off. A few reasons:

    Its diversity is good, but it currently lacks a coherent editorial world view. it should be the voice of a considered philosophically coherent conservatism. It isn't.

    Bias is good; but careful slanting of facts and fact selection isn't.

    It's too incestuous (politically) in its people makeup.

    It reviews too many incrowd/luvvie books and books which are not worth publishing (usually the same thing). Its 'arts' covers too much trashy self regarding junk.

    It shows insufficient regard for ordinary poor people and their lives and at the same time is not intelligent enough. (In this regard the NS is starting to overtake it - much improved recently).

    It has too much illiterate economics.

    Too many of its writers are self absorbed.

    I exempt Matthew Parris from all of this.

    PS You can get its gist online for free, but don't tell them.

    Alternatively, the editors at the Spectator have realised that the future of an intellectual, highly prestigious but ancient current affairs magazine lies in appealing to a younger net-savvy readership, not the elderly gents who populate PB?

    This would explain why so many of the pensioners on here have decided it is in decline, yet mysteriously it is racking up record sales, unlike almost every other printed journal in the western world
    The Spectator overtook the Guardian in sales for the first time ever last month.

    So, they're a little bit upset.
    Wot! they hit dubble figres?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Of course Russia is more of a threat to us than China. It is on the same continent as us for starters while China is on the other side of the world.

    Post vaccination Covid is also now much less of an issue. China may be more of a threat to Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and Australia than us, Russia is more of a threat to Europe and us however than China is
    We are not on the Continent.
  • Fook. Coulda been the try of the match.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Of course Russia is more of a threat to us than China. It is on the same continent as us for starters while China is on the other side of the world.

    Post vaccination Covid is also now much less of an issue. China may be more of a threat to Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and Australia than us, Russia is more of a threat to Europe and us however than China is
    We are not on the Continent.
    This is basic geography.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306
    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Of course Russia is more of a threat to us than China. It is on the same continent as us for starters while China is on the other side of the world.

    Post vaccination Covid is also now much less of an issue. China may be more of a threat to Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and Australia than us, Russia is more of a threat to Europe and us however than China is
    We are not on the Continent.
    This is basic geography.
    You would think...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Of course Russia is more of a threat to us than China. It is on the same continent as us for starters while China is on the other side of the world.

    Post vaccination Covid is also now much less of an issue. China may be more of a threat to Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and Australia than us, Russia is more of a threat to Europe and us however than China is
    We are not on the Continent.
    Oh we are.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_shelf
  • Scott_xP said:

    BigRich said:

    Just a question, and don't what to be downbeat, but is there any possibility that some of these videos we keep seeing of destroyed Russian vehicles and convoys are actually Ukrainian?

    I really hope not, but I think they have much of the same equipment?

    I think the white Z is the identification mark for the Russians
    Paul Mauser
    @PaulMauser1898
    Observed Russian vehicle markings corresponded to rough incursion areas. I'm sure this is not comprehensive and I am not claiming this is accurate but this is what I've seen so far. #Ukraine #Russia #Z #V #O

    https://twitter.com/PaulMauser1898/status/1497528093195444226
  • Yokes said:

    Just so we are clear here, the Russian attack on Ukraine isn't going badly wrong because some people thought the place would be taken over in 48 hours. The assault on Kiev as yet hasn't hit full pelt but isn't yet a disaster. The attack in the south east is going ok. Only the North Eastern/Eastern assaults appear initially to have gone badly in the first stages. If there is one failure though its the suppression of air defences. I'm not sure how much of the Ukrainian airforce is left but the ground based air defence appears to be functioning. Russia has large air superiority but doesn't seem to have applied it as you'd think they would. Whether its that they haven't or can't is an open question.

    If Kiev is under effective Russian control in a week and the country (or whatever part of it Putin is aiming for) is under effective control within 3 weeks that's still good going. Plus the Russians have more formations to play and stories have it the Belarussians are apparently due to commit their forces in next 48-72 hours after Russian demands of old President Big Hat. Its not known if the Ukrainians have the anywhere between 50-75k of reservists fully committed either admittedly but the assumption they have less cards to play.

    There was a post last night on attacking the Russian logistical tail as both a tactical and strategic aim and I mentioned that I'd not seen much evidence of it. Today there is some evidence of this occurring, columns of fuel vehicles, engineering kit and so on being destroyed/abandoned, largely it seems, via airstrikes.

    From a wider point of view if the West is shipping substantial kit via South East Poland what are the Russians going to do to interdict it and where are they going to try it? |Anyone who follows the aircraft tracking sites can't help but see US tankers up in the air frequently in that part of Poland. Part of that is supporting air intelligence craft but part of it is refuelling fighter aircraft that appear to be providing an air screen over the main logistics hub.

    If continued high-grade supplies of anti armour and anti-air weaponry can get to the likes of Kiev, its going to get messy, especially since the Russians look to be on for some kind of large scale heliborne assault somewhere in that area. The possibility of losing several tens of aircraft over a week or so is a lot to contend with. Can the West, though, really move with enough speed?

    As for the reported Bosphorus Straits closure that's a real wildcard. Hard to know its impact.


    I suspect that's all true. However, there's a long way to go, and it's important we keep up Ukrainian morale and the will to resist.

    There are many ways to ultimately 'win'.
  • ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Of course Russia is more of a threat to us than China. It is on the same continent as us for starters while China is on the other side of the world.

    Post vaccination Covid is also now much less of an issue. China may be more of a threat to Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and Australia than us, Russia is more of a threat to Europe and us however than China is
    We are not on the Continent.
    This is basic geography.
    In which you are wrong. We are part of the European continent by any normal definition.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887
    kle4 said:

    biggles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Blimey...

    David Clark 🇺🇦

    @David_K_Clark·3h

    The Russians are struggling and taking heavy casualties. They are beatable. Our best chance to defeat Putin’s threat to Europe is now. We should be giving Ukraine everything it wants. Despite the risks, that should include a no-fly zone. Putin’s victory would be the greater risk.

    https://twitter.com/David_K_Clark/status/1497490959235440641


    David Clark 🇺🇦
    @David_K_Clark·3h

    He will not nuke us because we’ve shot down some of his planes.

    Fucking ludicrous. To do a No Fly Zone you've got to be prepared to a) shoot down Russian aircraft and b) do SEAD/DEAD on the Russian side of the border.

    NFZ is basically speedrunning the process of going to war with Russia.
    So far, the Russian military is resembling a paper tiger.
    I must admit, I did enjoy reading in the Telegraph this morning how British anti-tank weapons are taking out Russian armour near Kharkiv.

    Ukrainian soldiers were shouting 'God Save The Queen', after successful strikes.
    Just saw that and made me smile. We have sent them 2000 of 20k apparently. Send the rest!
    Apparently they have an expiry date, so might as well
    They last 20 years, and were delivered from 2009. So a few years to go yet.
  • Northstar said:

    Shockingly, not a piss take.


    Given that the original drawing is of Warhammer 40k’s Cadian Imperial Guard, who take a beating in pretty much every engagement, exist solely to be bailed out by the militarily superior Space Marines, and whose home planet is now an asteroid field, the comparison may be apt…
    hmmm, the planet broke before the guard did.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Russia has a gigantic nuclear arsenal and control of it rests in the hands of a delusional, megalomaniacal, paranoid fascist lunatic. And if, pray God, the bastard dies before he decides to go down in a blaze of glory and turn us all to ash with him, then whatever comes after him likely won't be very much better.

    The West can play the long game with China, with a reasonable degree of confidence that it won't end with us all dying horribly. Russia, on the other hand, is a lost cause. It is the land of despots, it's a vicious antagonist, and the leopard won't change its spots. And, since we can't defang the leopard - we can't wish its nuclear weapons away, sadly - then the next best thing we can do is try to cage it. All of the doors between civilized Europe and the Russian Federation should be slammed and welded shut.
    Putin has wrapped himself up in religious orthodoxy, that of the Eastern Orthodox of the Russian variety. Its an under studied part of the guy's motivation. Its not just the religion but the political bent that goes with such institutions. He certainly shows plenty of the markers of a swivel-eyed religiously inspired case.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,306
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Of course Russia is more of a threat to us than China. It is on the same continent as us for starters while China is on the other side of the world.

    Post vaccination Covid is also now much less of an issue. China may be more of a threat to Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and Australia than us, Russia is more of a threat to Europe and us however than China is
    We are not on the Continent.
    Oh we are.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_shelf
    As far as the non-tentacled community is concerned, we're not.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Chelsea could go bust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553871/Chelsea-BUST-owner-Roman-Abramovich-hit-sanctions.html

    I've been calling for a clean up of dirty Russian money for years.

    The problem here is that the Premier League is awash with dirty money and so is London. We host the Arms Fair every two years which directly contributes to dirty regimes.

    And whilst I definitely want to ban Abramovich and his fellow Putin-loving Russian mafia, what about Saudi Arabia? What about Qatar?

    I love Qatar Airways but I'm under no illusion about the country behind it.

    Corruption runs deep and money talks. That's why the stock markets soared yesterday. They know our sanctions are feeble.

    Frankly, if London property prices crash as a result of getting dirty money out of London, that would be a good thing. I am frankly sick of hearing about ludicrously overpriced properties, of whole areas going dark because houses are bought and not lived in, of local businesses failing because there is no local population and knowing how hard it will be for my children to get onto the property ladder because of the effects of London property being treated as a bank by the crooked and corrupt of the world.
    The Chinese are worse.
    The Chinese regime is dreadful, but it does at least have the advantage of being led by rational actors with clearly defined and comprehensible aims, even if we don't agree with them. If Xi were anything like Putin he'd be sending the troops in to bite random chunks out of Vietnam and Mongolia and install client satraps, and threatening to nuke Bhutan if it ran away screaming into an alliance with India.

    Putin is a far more dangerous and volatile proposition, and so is Russia itself. The escalating rupture to economic and cultural ties - in everything from football to banking transactions - does at least suggest that the penny is finally dropping, even (it would now appear) amongst hitherto sympathetic states like Hungary and Cyprus. If the Russians won't junk Putin and reform - and I'm betting that they won't - then the rupture should be total. We will have to deal with the buggers at the United Nations, but other than that let's have nothing more to do with them.
    I think like everyone, Putin's actions are pulling him ever closer to the thing he fears most, the disintegration of his state apparatus at the hands of the West. After his formative experiences in the collapse of the GDR, when he called for back up and it never came, his whole career has been built on preventing this from happening, but his own actions will bring it about. We can scream 'Yes' at something and it will come; we can scream 'No' at something and it will still come.

    But sorry, in no way is Russia more of a threat to us than China. They haven't unleashed a pandemic on us for one thing.
    Of course Russia is more of a threat to us than China. It is on the same continent as us for starters while China is on the other side of the world.

    Post vaccination Covid is also now much less of an issue. China may be more of a threat to Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and Australia than us, Russia is more of a threat to Europe and us however than China is
    We are not on the Continent.
    This is basic geography.
    In which you are wrong. We are part of the European continent by any normal definition.
    I was mocking @Luckyguy1983

    These people just make up their own facts to suit them. They end up looking like complete idiots, posting tripe like that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    62% of US voters say Russia would not have invaded Ukraine if Trump was still President. Including 38% of Democrats and 85% of Republicans

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1497570412041064454?s=20&t=WJuxCxnyocz1Bq1FjVIr0g
  • HYUFD said:

    62% of US voters say Russia would not have invaded Ukraine if Trump was still President. Including 38% of Democrats and 85% of Republicans

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1497570412041064454?s=20&t=WJuxCxnyocz1Bq1FjVIr0g

    Trump supports the invasion...
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