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Time to bet that Le Pen won’t get on the ballot – politicalbetting.com

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  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    stodge said:

    MISTY said:

    There's a lot spoken about Russia's troops. But not much about Ukraine's.

    Do the Ukrainians have thousands dug in along Ukraine's Eastern borders? is this going to be a walk over, which would in some ways be a mercy, or is it going to be a bloodbath?

    Just so I'm clear because I'm not.

    Have Russian forces moved into the areas of Donetsk and Lubansk oblasts controlled by the separatists? Have they beyond those areas into the remainder of the two oblasts? I suspect the answer to both questions is Not Yet.

    Putin's historical revisionism notwithstanding therefore, we seem at a bit of a stalemate. The next stage presumably would be for Russian forces (on some false-flag pretext) to move into Donetsk and Lubansk up to the line controlled by the separatists since 2014 and then perhaps beyond.
    Yes I think there might be some ar$e covering going on here by Western governments that should have seen all of this coming months ago but were obsessed by covid and climate.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    pigeon said:

    Heathener said:

    Well, I really thought Putin would stop in Donetsk and Luhansk. It now looks like he really won't.

    Madness.

    Well, he has effectively said that Ukraine has no right to exist, so I suppose we have to give some consideration to the possibility that he believes it.

    If Putin gets his way then Ukraine and Belarus (at the minimum) will both eventually disappear from the map.
    Putin only needs to ask I think
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,281

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    And the lowered threshold brings that tax to poorer chunk of graduates.

    I would encourage potential students to look at overseas options.

    And graduates to consider immigration.
    I don't understand what you mean by your final line?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,760
    Yokes said:

    Its looks as if an actual H-Hour for an attack on Ukraine could be later tonight.

    Gulp.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,925

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    Crooked to extend the term, and put up interest rates unilaterally after the loans were taken. What other financial organisation can do that?

    It's a gift for Starmer. Important to get out the youth vote. It nearly worked for Jezza in 2017.
    I think the longer term is only for new students. Dunno about the threshold though.

    Either way it’s crap. Just more pulling the ladder up
    If you don’t stop students going to University, how are you going to stop Woke?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,353

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (+2)
    CON: 35% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via @Survation, 17 - 21 Feb
    Chgs. w/ 25 Jan

    Conservatives on 35% in this climate is surprising

    Also polled before Putins declaration
    I think the next poll, or polls from this week, will have the Tories down one or two.
    Who knows? 🤷‍♀️ Big dogs smelly bollocks arn’t being felt up by plod on the tv screen every night like they were, we are effectively at war with a superpower, Government and Boris ratings must get a rally round flag bounce. I think it could get very close to crossover for the reasoning I have given, probably Sundays Opinum will show Tory lead because of rally round the flag bounce won’t work well with Opinums method to hand labour responses to conservatives to predict next election result.
    The Falklands factor?
    I would be surprised if there is a Falklands factor, unless Johnson plans British boots on the ground which leads to Putin's swift defeat.

    If he can pull that off I would be shocked.
    The obvious comparison I see with the Falklands is that whilst the US did not engage directly in that conflict they did provide the UK with intelligence information. I presume Ukraine would be getting assistance of that kind from Nato should an escalation take place.

    I do admire the calm but forthright behaviour of their leaders but worry how this might all end.
    There isn't really much political capital to be made by Johnson if the UK remains low key. However, the hardcore alternative might be very, very risky.

    Possibly Johnson could attempt to be the lead international statesman as Macron tried and failed earlier this week. That might work with little downside for him.
  • DavidL said:

    Yokes said:

    Its looks as if an actual H-Hour for an attack on Ukraine could be later tonight.

    Gulp.
    Madness.

    Utter madness.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,577
    pigeon said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    There was a debate about serfdom in Russia early this morning.

    Seems we are intent on bringing it back to the UK.
    In addition to the ever-ageing population, the Covid debt burden and everything else we already have to pay for, it looks increasingly likely that the British state is going to have to find the funds to hugely increase the defence budget, and rehome its fair share of the millions of Ukrainian refugees liable to be driven westwards by a Russian conquest.

    The Government's plan to tax the absolute crap out of the working age population whilst leaving the elderly, with their inflation-busting pension increases and their enormous property wealth, almost untouched (a one year only suspension of the triple lock excepted) is going to be tested to destruction over the coming years.
    A few hundred thousand Ukranians would solve our demographic deficit for a few years.

    My grandfather worked with a lot of Ukranian* miners in post war Wigan. Thought them a great bunch.

    * They may have been Polish by nationality, from around Lviv region.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Yokes said:

    Its looks as if an actual H-Hour for an attack on Ukraine could be later tonight.

    What makes you think that?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,464

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    There's a lot spoken about Russia's troops. But not much about Ukraine's.

    Do the Ukrainians have thousands dug in along Ukraine's Eastern borders? is this going to be a walk over, which would in some ways be a mercy, or is it going to be a bloodbath?

    Ukraine has a lot of troops, but is lacking in modern heavy weapons and also air power. I think the Ukranian forces will be encircled quite quickly.

    Where they may do better is in urban and partisan warfare, but in a stand up fight in the open, the Russians will win.
    If it comes to urban warfare, nobody wins. There will be nothing left to gain. What use is a bombed and shelled out city with only those too old to flee left in it? Ukraine is hardly a nation of great riches.

    If Putin really intends to do this then the 'Tonto' comment was utterly accurate.
    As you know, I am not much of an armchair general, if I was a general on a horse I’d certainly fall off at some point!

    But the Russian tactics and strategy seems obvious to me. There’s no imminent invasion to take Kyiv. There’s not any quick movement into the citys they have crept up on and glaring at. Their tactic will be similar but not as barbaric to how Israel was formed after the British pulled out the levant. The `Russians won’t go in those eastern city’s full of people, they will first sit there menacingly, ramping up rhetoric and pressure whilst what is in front of them to advance into, empty’s of civilians.

    This salami tactic is going to be a lonnnnnnng game.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,836
    Pulpstar said:

    pigeon said:

    Heathener said:

    Well, I really thought Putin would stop in Donetsk and Luhansk. It now looks like he really won't.

    Madness.

    Well, he has effectively said that Ukraine has no right to exist, so I suppose we have to give some consideration to the possibility that he believes it.

    If Putin gets his way then Ukraine and Belarus (at the minimum) will both eventually disappear from the map.
    Putin only needs to ask I think
    The Union State mechanism is designed gradually to merge Belarus into Russia through a process of economic and legal alignment. I imagine that Belarus will be formally absorbed (via a rigged plebiscite) not too long after Lukashenko dies or is pensioned off into luxurious retirement.

    Rump Ukraine will likely be integrated into the same framework after it is occupied and a puppet autocrat has been installed.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,485
    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    There's a lot spoken about Russia's troops. But not much about Ukraine's.

    Do the Ukrainians have thousands dug in along Ukraine's Eastern borders? is this going to be a walk over, which would in some ways be a mercy, or is it going to be a bloodbath?

    Ukraine has a lot of troops, but is lacking in modern heavy weapons and also air power. I think the Ukranian forces will be encircled quite quickly.

    Where they may do better is in urban and partisan warfare, but in a stand up fight in the open, the Russians will win.
    I wouldn't be so sure. (All below from my POV, obvs.)

    Both sides have recent combat experience. Russia with a handful of special forces in Donbass and Syria, and aerial air-to-ground over Syria. Ukraine in Donbass. Ukraine have the advantage of a defensive position and a non-surprise attack. Russia have (potentially) fifth columnists. Also the Ukrainian 'lack of modern weapons' may not be as marked as you think, partially due to imports and domestic production. This current situation is not a surprise.

    I wouldn't say it is as clear cut as you make out. It will be an interesting (though tragic) one to watch. Unconventional conventional warfare might win the day.

    The big kicker is the terrain: and I have no idea what the terrain is like for defending and attacking forces. A good defence can make he most of many terrains.

    One thing is certain: if the Ukrainians have the will, they could turn it into a long-term slaughterhouse for Russian troops. And Russia will respond with typically Soviet response.

    Another thing to consider: what will both sides consider a 'win'? Is there a situation both sides can stalemate to where they can convince their populations they won?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,464

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Pensioners need a pre election bail out 😆
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    There was a debate about serfdom in Russia early this morning.

    Seems we are intent on bringing it back to the UK.
    In addition to the ever-ageing population, the Covid debt burden and everything else we already have to pay for, it looks increasingly likely that the British state is going to have to find the funds to hugely increase the defence budget, and rehome its fair share of the millions of Ukrainian refugees liable to be driven westwards by a Russian conquest.

    The Government's plan to tax the absolute crap out of the working age population whilst leaving the elderly, with their inflation-busting pension increases and their enormous property wealth, almost untouched (a one year only suspension of the triple lock excepted) is going to be tested to destruction over the coming years.
    A few hundred thousand Ukranians would solve our demographic deficit for a few years.

    My grandfather worked with a lot of Ukranian* miners in post war Wigan. Thought them a great bunch.

    * They may have been Polish by nationality, from around Lviv region.
    I am a descendant of Crimean jews that fled pogroms to London, with my grandfather serving in the British army in ww2
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    Evening all :)

    Vaguely on topic, a dreadful poll for Pecresse today.

    The Harris Interactive Poll has Macron on 24%, Le Pen on 17.5%, Zemmour on 15.5% and Pecresse on 13.5% with Melanchon improving on 12%.

    Although the general belief is Le Pen failing to get on the ballot will help Pecresse, I'm far from convinced. She doesn't seem to inspire as a candidate for all she can get endorsements from LR officials and others. She's also polling well below Fillon's numbers from 2017.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,329

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    edited February 2022
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Yes
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,577

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    And the lowered threshold brings that tax to poorer chunk of graduates.

    I would encourage potential students to look at overseas options.

    And graduates to consider immigration.
    I don't understand what you mean by your final line?
    If you emigrate, you don't pay. You are supposed to, but there is no enforcement.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,720
    pigeon said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    There was a debate about serfdom in Russia early this morning.

    Seems we are intent on bringing it back to the UK.
    In addition to the ever-ageing population, the Covid debt burden and everything else we already have to pay for, it looks increasingly likely that the British state is going to have to find the funds to hugely increase the defence budget, and rehome its fair share of the millions of Ukrainian refugees liable to be driven westwards by a Russian conquest.

    The Government's plan to tax the absolute crap out of the working age population whilst leaving the elderly, with their inflation-busting pension increases and their enormous property wealth, almost untouched (a one year only suspension of the triple lock excepted) is going to be tested to destruction over the coming years.
    The Government does not need to massively increase defence spending. Poland and the Baltic States will but Putin would have to get through France and Germany before he got to us and we have nuclear weapons and are already spending the required sum NATO wants of its members. Most of the Ukrainian refugees can be housed in neighbouring states and many will prefer to fight than flee.

    The young will get more of an inheritance once they reach middle age then any generation before them and inheritance and property ownership are key Tory principles so obviously a Tory government wants to keep taxes on both low. There has also been no rise in income tax under this government and as you say pensioners have seem the triple lock suspended in breach of the Tory manifesto, as tough a decision post Covid as the NI rise to refund the extra funds the NHS needed
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Yokes said:

    Its looks as if an actual H-Hour for an attack on Ukraine could be later tonight.

    What makes you think that?
    He is a fantasist refugee from a John le Carre novel, so probably heard it from someone at the Circus
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,281
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Improving the education of the workforce strengthens the economy as a whole, which improves living standards for those workers who don't go to university. It makes sense to pay for education from general taxation.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,281
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    And the lowered threshold brings that tax to poorer chunk of graduates.

    I would encourage potential students to look at overseas options.

    And graduates to consider immigration.
    I don't understand what you mean by your final line?
    If you emigrate, you don't pay. You are supposed to, but there is no enforcement.
    I thought that was the whole point of it being structured as a loan, that you would still have to pay if you emigrated.

    Would there not be consequences if you emigrated for a while, but then returned later?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Improving the education of the workforce strengthens the economy as a whole, which improves living standards for those workers who don't go to university. It makes sense to pay for education from general taxation.
    My parents, the children of immigrants, would never have gone to university without funding from general taxation.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,329

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Yes
    Ha ha. What a mug. Not going to happen. Whenever I have sympathy with the younger generation I read some witless comment like yours and it evaporates.
  • Russian Embassy Greece:

    Thousands of innocent people died, tens of thousands were wounded. Donbass faced all-out transport & economic blockade, its residents no longer received pensions, social benefits. These actions were nothing short of genocide against Ukraine’s own people
    🔗is.gd/9mAZY4


    https://twitter.com/rfembassygr/status/1496579775275708419?s=21
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    And the lowered threshold brings that tax to poorer chunk of graduates.

    I would encourage potential students to look at overseas options.

    And graduates to consider immigration.
    I don't understand what you mean by your final line?
    If you emigrate, you don't pay. You are supposed to, but there is no enforcement.
    I thought that was the whole point of it being structured as a loan, that you would still have to pay if you emigrated.

    Would there not be consequences if you emigrated for a while, but then returned later?
    How are they gonna know how much you earned abroad?
  • 🚨🚨@WSJ VIDEO INVESTIGATION: TikToks and satellite images show Russia on the brink of full invasion

    https://twitter.com/csstewart/status/1496573885441007616
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Yes
    Ha ha. What a mug. Not going to happen. Whenever I have sympathy with the younger generation I read some witless comment like yours and it evaporates.
    That’s nice for you
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,281
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    There was a debate about serfdom in Russia early this morning.

    Seems we are intent on bringing it back to the UK.
    In addition to the ever-ageing population, the Covid debt burden and everything else we already have to pay for, it looks increasingly likely that the British state is going to have to find the funds to hugely increase the defence budget, and rehome its fair share of the millions of Ukrainian refugees liable to be driven westwards by a Russian conquest.

    The Government's plan to tax the absolute crap out of the working age population whilst leaving the elderly, with their inflation-busting pension increases and their enormous property wealth, almost untouched (a one year only suspension of the triple lock excepted) is going to be tested to destruction over the coming years.
    The Government does not need to massively increase defence spending. Poland and the Baltic States will but Putin would have to get through France and Germany before he got to us and we have nuclear weapons and are already spending the required sum NATO wants of its members. Most of the Ukrainian refugees can be housed in neighbouring states and many will prefer to fight than flee.

    The young will get more of an inheritance once they reach middle age then any generation before them and inheritance and property ownership are key Tory principles so obviously a Tory government wants to keep taxes on both low. There has also been no rise in income tax under this government and as you say pensioners have seem the triple lock suspended in breach of the Tory manifesto, as tough a decision post Covid as the NI rise to refund the extra funds the NHS needed
    If we don't play our part in defending central and eastern Europe from an expansionist Russia then our economy will be in ruins long before Russian forces cross the Elbe, not to mention the stain on our reputation if we abandon so many democracies to an authoritarian dictatorship.

    If we fail to increase spending on defence then we are choosing to accept a world dominated by authoritarian dictatorships. That's not a choice I want to make.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,464

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (+2)
    CON: 35% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via @Survation, 17 - 21 Feb
    Chgs. w/ 25 Jan

    Conservatives on 35% in this climate is surprising

    Also polled before Putins declaration
    I think the next poll, or polls from this week, will have the Tories down one or two.
    Who knows? 🤷‍♀️ Big dogs smelly bollocks arn’t being felt up by plod on the tv screen every night like they were, we are effectively at war with a superpower, Government and Boris ratings must get a rally round flag bounce. I think it could get very close to crossover for the reasoning I have given, probably Sundays Opinum will show Tory lead because of rally round the flag bounce won’t work well with Opinums method to hand labour responses to conservatives to predict next election result.
    The Falklands factor?
    It’s a genuine national crisis. Governments around the world all got a rally round the flag bounce. Where did I see this proved as fact? When reading PB archives when banned!

    I don’t know why Big G feels last few weeks bad media narrative for Tory’s, hence 35 surprisingly high. It’s really not.
    I am not saying there is a bad media narrative but partygate and lifting restrictions on covid are not positives
    We haven’t had a Survation since 25th Jan, that was also 35%, so we shouldn’t think the Tory’s have moved up recently equating this poll in our heads with polls from other firms. They are actually reporting an increased gap since 25th Jan, so no Tory recovery only going backwards is what this poll is telling us.

    I got it wrong. I was too quick to say it was a good poll for Boris and Tory’s, I should have analysed it first. My bad. Sorry PB 😕
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,040
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    There was a debate about serfdom in Russia early this morning.

    Seems we are intent on bringing it back to the UK.
    In addition to the ever-ageing population, the Covid debt burden and everything else we already have to pay for, it looks increasingly likely that the British state is going to have to find the funds to hugely increase the defence budget, and rehome its fair share of the millions of Ukrainian refugees liable to be driven westwards by a Russian conquest.

    The Government's plan to tax the absolute crap out of the working age population whilst leaving the elderly, with their inflation-busting pension increases and their enormous property wealth, almost untouched (a one year only suspension of the triple lock excepted) is going to be tested to destruction over the coming years.
    The Government does not need to massively increase defence spending. Poland and the Baltic States will but Putin would have to get through France and Germany before he got to us and we have nuclear weapons and are already spending the required sum NATO wants of its members. Most of the Ukrainian refugees can be housed in neighbouring states and many will prefer to fight than flee.

    The young will get more of an inheritance once they reach middle age then any generation before them and inheritance and property ownership are key Tory principles so obviously a Tory government wants to keep taxes on both low. There has also been no rise in income tax under this government and as you say pensioners have seem the triple lock suspended in breach of the Tory manifesto, as tough a decision post Covid as the NI rise to refund the extra funds the NHS needed
    It is worth noting that a flood of refugees coming to the UK to avoid the war would push up house prices, and mean inheritances are maximized.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,157

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Yes
    That, of course, is what used to happen, just with far far fewer people going to university.

    Now, I doubt there are any graduates on here who wouldn't have made it to uni pre-1997, but New Labour thought it was better to make higher education accessible to many more people.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,577

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    And the lowered threshold brings that tax to poorer chunk of graduates.

    I would encourage potential students to look at overseas options.

    And graduates to consider immigration.
    I don't understand what you mean by your final line?
    If you emigrate, you don't pay. You are supposed to, but there is no enforcement.
    I thought that was the whole point of it being structured as a loan, that you would still have to pay if you emigrated.

    Would there not be consequences if you emigrated for a while, but then returned later?
    Yes, you are supposed to repay even if living abroad, if over the threshold. There is no enforcement of that though.

    Yes, you would be liable if you return, but that just means all the more reason to take the one way journey to down under that my nephew did.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,157
    NEW THREAD
  • rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    There was a debate about serfdom in Russia early this morning.

    Seems we are intent on bringing it back to the UK.
    In addition to the ever-ageing population, the Covid debt burden and everything else we already have to pay for, it looks increasingly likely that the British state is going to have to find the funds to hugely increase the defence budget, and rehome its fair share of the millions of Ukrainian refugees liable to be driven westwards by a Russian conquest.

    The Government's plan to tax the absolute crap out of the working age population whilst leaving the elderly, with their inflation-busting pension increases and their enormous property wealth, almost untouched (a one year only suspension of the triple lock excepted) is going to be tested to destruction over the coming years.
    The Government does not need to massively increase defence spending. Poland and the Baltic States will but Putin would have to get through France and Germany before he got to us and we have nuclear weapons and are already spending the required sum NATO wants of its members. Most of the Ukrainian refugees can be housed in neighbouring states and many will prefer to fight than flee.

    The young will get more of an inheritance once they reach middle age then any generation before them and inheritance and property ownership are key Tory principles so obviously a Tory government wants to keep taxes on both low. There has also been no rise in income tax under this government and as you say pensioners have seem the triple lock suspended in breach of the Tory manifesto, as tough a decision post Covid as the NI rise to refund the extra funds the NHS needed
    It is worth noting that a flood of refugees coming to the UK to avoid the war would push up house prices, and mean inheritances are maximized.
    How much do Ukrainian plumbers charge?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Yes
    Always worked for me. My parents were easily rich enough to make it completely unnecessary for the state to sub my time at university but I have never let that diminish my gratitude. That's just the way I roll.
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Yes
    Ha ha. What a mug. Not going to happen. Whenever I have sympathy with the younger generation I read some witless comment like yours and it evaporates.
    That’s nice for you
    Conclusion: this won't raise much for the government now, but will visibly hurt young people who have got ideas above their station (£200 a year?) and please those who resent them.

    So from a culture war point of view, job done.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,836

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Pensioners need a pre election bail out 😆
    You jest but I'm sure that something like that will come, either in the budget before the election or in the Tory manifesto.

    Did a crude calculation a couple of weeks back. If the health and social care levy were doubled from 1.25% to 2.5%, then that ought to raise enough revenue to fund the outright abolition of inheritance tax, with enough surplus cash left over to double the winter fuel payment. The olds and the heirs would be cock-a-hoop.

    I always like to refer in these discussions to one of my favourite pieces of research on electoral demographics (done by Bath Uni in 2017, if memory serves.) Taking into account likelihood to bother to turn out, about a third of the electorate are pensioners and a full half of all voters are over 55. The bulk of these people are outright homeowners or in the last few years of making mortgage repayments, and most of those at the younger end of the range will also be anticipating coming into fat inheritances from those at the older end, which both parties will want to be passed on intact.

    These voter groups are the Tory core, they're continuing to grow as a share of the total electorate with every passing year, and so long as they can be kept on side the Conservative electoral position will remain strong. Regardless of how manifestly unsuitable for his office Johnson is, the possibility of another Tory majority at the next election, even if he survives to fight it, should not be dismissed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,720
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Vaguely on topic, a dreadful poll for Pecresse today.

    The Harris Interactive Poll has Macron on 24%, Le Pen on 17.5%, Zemmour on 15.5% and Pecresse on 13.5% with Melanchon improving on 12%.

    Although the general belief is Le Pen failing to get on the ballot will help Pecresse, I'm far from convinced. She doesn't seem to inspire as a candidate for all she can get endorsements from LR officials and others. She's also polling well below Fillon's numbers from 2017.

    Harris also has Le Pen doing best against Macron now with 45% to his 55%. Whereas Macron gets 57% v Pecresse and 62% v Zemmour

    https://twitter.com/harrisint_fr/status/1496487527963889665?s=19
    https://twitter.com/harrisint_fr/status/1496487538525093889?s=19
    https://twitter.com/harrisint_fr/status/1496487533118693385?s=19
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    One thing that I think will arrive long term is either means testing of the State Pension, or stop of the triple lock. Probably both.
    I'm 40 and worked out that the state pension is worth a "pot" of

    £170k if it was kept flat forever.
    About 370k if the triple lock is kept till I'm 68 but then stops.
    Just over £600k if the triple lock is kept through my lifetime...

    Inflation rate of 3% assumed.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Yes
    Ha ha. What a mug. Not going to happen. Whenever I have sympathy with the younger generation I read some witless comment like yours and it evaporates.
    That’s not fair. You posed a pretty daft question and got the obvious response.
  • https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1496549310518988805

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 42% (+2)
    CON: 35% (-)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via
    @Survation
    , 17 - 21 Feb
    Chgs. w/ 25 Jan

    SKS fans please explain?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    And the lowered threshold brings that tax to poorer chunk of graduates.

    I would encourage potential students to look at overseas options.

    And graduates to consider immigration.
    I don't understand what you mean by your final line?
    If you emigrate, you don't pay. You are supposed to, but there is no enforcement.
    I thought that was the whole point of it being structured as a loan, that you would still have to pay if you emigrated.

    Would there not be consequences if you emigrated for a while, but then returned later?
    How are they gonna know how much you earned abroad?
    They can’t. They won’t.

    Young people should emigrate, you really are Better Off Out, to coin a phrase.

    I predict that emigration will skyrocket through the 2020s. It’s like the 1970s all over again (when my own father left Britain for NZ).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,720

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    There was a debate about serfdom in Russia early this morning.

    Seems we are intent on bringing it back to the UK.
    In addition to the ever-ageing population, the Covid debt burden and everything else we already have to pay for, it looks increasingly likely that the British state is going to have to find the funds to hugely increase the defence budget, and rehome its fair share of the millions of Ukrainian refugees liable to be driven westwards by a Russian conquest.

    The Government's plan to tax the absolute crap out of the working age population whilst leaving the elderly, with their inflation-busting pension increases and their enormous property wealth, almost untouched (a one year only suspension of the triple lock excepted) is going to be tested to destruction over the coming years.
    The Government does not need to massively increase defence spending. Poland and the Baltic States will but Putin would have to get through France and Germany before he got to us and we have nuclear weapons and are already spending the required sum NATO wants of its members. Most of the Ukrainian refugees can be housed in neighbouring states and many will prefer to fight than flee.

    The young will get more of an inheritance once they reach middle age then any generation before them and inheritance and property ownership are key Tory principles so obviously a Tory government wants to keep taxes on both low. There has also been no rise in income tax under this government and as you say pensioners have seem the triple lock suspended in breach of the Tory manifesto, as tough a decision post Covid as the NI rise to refund the extra funds the NHS needed
    If we don't play our part in defending central and eastern Europe from an expansionist Russia then our economy will be in ruins long before Russian forces cross the Elbe, not to mention the stain on our reputation if we abandon so many democracies to an authoritarian dictatorship.

    If we fail to increase spending on defence then we are choosing to accept a world dominated by authoritarian dictatorships. That's not a choice I want to make.
    No it won't our economy will not ge affected much more than the Yugoslav war, the City of London would not be hit much.

    We will defend NATO nations not Ukraine, just sanctions to support them
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,464

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    There was a debate about serfdom in Russia early this morning.

    Seems we are intent on bringing it back to the UK.
    In addition to the ever-ageing population, the Covid debt burden and everything else we already have to pay for, it looks increasingly likely that the British state is going to have to find the funds to hugely increase the defence budget, and rehome its fair share of the millions of Ukrainian refugees liable to be driven westwards by a Russian conquest.

    The Government's plan to tax the absolute crap out of the working age population whilst leaving the elderly, with their inflation-busting pension increases and their enormous property wealth, almost untouched (a one year only suspension of the triple lock excepted) is going to be tested to destruction over the coming years.
    The Government does not need to massively increase defence spending. Poland and the Baltic States will but Putin would have to get through France and Germany before he got to us and we have nuclear weapons and are already spending the required sum NATO wants of its members. Most of the Ukrainian refugees can be housed in neighbouring states and many will prefer to fight than flee.

    The young will get more of an inheritance once they reach middle age then any generation before them and inheritance and property ownership are key Tory principles so obviously a Tory government wants to keep taxes on both low. There has also been no rise in income tax under this government and as you say pensioners have seem the triple lock suspended in breach of the Tory manifesto, as tough a decision post Covid as the NI rise to refund the extra funds the NHS needed
    It is worth noting that a flood of refugees coming to the UK to avoid the war would push up house prices, and mean inheritances are maximized.
    How much do Ukrainian plumbers charge?
    A plumber? I didn’t order a plumber.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Russian Embassy Greece:

    Thousands of innocent people died, tens of thousands were wounded. Donbass faced all-out transport & economic blockade, its residents no longer received pensions, social benefits. These actions were nothing short of genocide against Ukraine’s own people
    🔗is.gd/9mAZY4


    https://twitter.com/rfembassygr/status/1496579775275708419?s=21

    Rather puts Ben Wallace’s gaffe into context.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,076
    edited February 2022

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    There's a lot spoken about Russia's troops. But not much about Ukraine's.

    Do the Ukrainians have thousands dug in along Ukraine's Eastern borders? is this going to be a walk over, which would in some ways be a mercy, or is it going to be a bloodbath?

    Ukraine has a lot of troops, but is lacking in modern heavy weapons and also air power. I think the Ukranian forces will be encircled quite quickly.

    Where they may do better is in urban and partisan warfare, but in a stand up fight in the open, the Russians will win.
    If it comes to urban warfare, nobody wins. There will be nothing left to gain. What use is a bombed and shelled out city with only those too old to flee left in it? Ukraine is hardly a nation of great riches.

    If Putin really intends to do this then the 'Tonto' comment was utterly accurate.
    As you know, I am not much of an armchair general, if I was a general on a horse I’d certainly fall off at some point!

    But the Russian tactics and strategy seems obvious to me. There’s no imminent invasion to take Kyiv. There’s not any quick movement into the citys they have crept up on and glaring at. Their tactic will be similar but not as barbaric to how Israel was formed after the British pulled out the levant. The `Russians won’t go in those eastern city’s full of people, they will first sit there menacingly, ramping up rhetoric and pressure whilst what is in front of them to advance into, empty’s of civilians.

    This salami tactic is going to be a lonnnnnnng game.
    Your problem is being nice.


    "To be a good soldier, you must love the army. To be a good commander, you must be willing to order the death of the thing you love."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994–1995)

    For the Greater Russian Nationalists, that was when the fightback began.

    The Russian don't have the luxury of infinite time - wars are expensive.

    They will be looking at a taking Kyiv hard and fast, possibly installing a puppet administration to sign some decrees declaring that large chunks of Ukraine are ceeded to Russia forever, then pull back.

    If that means reducing Kyiv to this

    image

    Why not do it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    There was a debate about serfdom in Russia early this morning.

    Seems we are intent on bringing it back to the UK.
    In addition to the ever-ageing population, the Covid debt burden and everything else we already have to pay for, it looks increasingly likely that the British state is going to have to find the funds to hugely increase the defence budget, and rehome its fair share of the millions of Ukrainian refugees liable to be driven westwards by a Russian conquest.

    The Government's plan to tax the absolute crap out of the working age population whilst leaving the elderly, with their inflation-busting pension increases and their enormous property wealth, almost untouched (a one year only suspension of the triple lock excepted) is going to be tested to destruction over the coming years.
    A few hundred thousand Ukranians would solve our demographic deficit for a few years.
    Don't forget all those Hong Kongers too.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,327
    edited February 2022

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    And the lowered threshold brings that tax to poorer chunk of graduates.

    I would encourage potential students to look at overseas options.

    And graduates to consider immigration.
    It’s easy to criticise this, but what are the alternatives? If you want 50% of 18 year olds to attend university, it costs a lot of money.
    And as someone from NZ, when I went to your home country in 1998 they already had tuition fees. I assume they are still in place. Uni isn’t fully funded by the state in many places.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,327

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    So what do you expect. Minimum wage workers and workers who never went to Uni and never had the chance to should pay for your further education and enhanced earning prospects ?
    Yes
    Why?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,327
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    And the lowered threshold brings that tax to poorer chunk of graduates.

    I would encourage potential students to look at overseas options.

    And graduates to consider immigration.
    I don't understand what you mean by your final line?
    If you emigrate, you don't pay. You are supposed to, but there is no enforcement.
    True enough but he mistakenly wrote immigration, not emigration...
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117
    edited February 2022

    Interesting.


    Yes, just what I mentioned yesterday.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    edited February 2022

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    They can absolutely categorically fuck off

    An @theipaper exclusive: The salary threshold at which graduates start repaying their student loans is set to drop from £27,295 a year to £25,000. Universities are also expecting repayment term to go from 30 to 40 years

    https://twitter.com/whazell/status/1496460151796256769?s=21

    Gotta admit, doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
    More tax rises on the young workers
    There should rises elsewhere, to be sure, and it is infuriating how parties (particularly but not just Con) court the grey vote with bribes every election time, but this specific proposal doesn't seem outrageous.
    A forty year term is in effect an entire career graduate tax on those who are not rich enough to not take student loans.
    And the lowered threshold brings that tax to poorer chunk of graduates.

    I would encourage potential students to look at overseas options.

    And graduates to consider immigration.
    It’s easy to criticise this, but what are the alternatives? If you want 50% of 18 year olds to attend university, it costs a lot of money.
    And as someone from NZ, when I went to your home country in 1998 they already had tuition fees. I assume they are still in place. Uni isn’t fully funded by the state in many places.
    There is a spectrum of possibilities here.
    The courses being taken.
    The numbers going to university.
    The amount charged or loaned.
    The interest rate.
    The decision over who pays.

    As it is, tertiary education looks like a giant racket on the backs of younger people. Must like the rest of the British economy.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,464
    edited February 2022

    Foxy said:

    MISTY said:

    There's a lot spoken about Russia's troops. But not much about Ukraine's.

    Do the Ukrainians have thousands dug in along Ukraine's Eastern borders? is this going to be a walk over, which would in some ways be a mercy, or is it going to be a bloodbath?

    Ukraine has a lot of troops, but is lacking in modern heavy weapons and also air power. I think the Ukranian forces will be encircled quite quickly.

    Where they may do better is in urban and partisan warfare, but in a stand up fight in the open, the Russians will win.
    If it comes to urban warfare, nobody wins. There will be nothing left to gain. What use is a bombed and shelled out city with only those too old to flee left in it? Ukraine is hardly a nation of great riches.

    If Putin really intends to do this then the 'Tonto' comment was utterly accurate.
    As you know, I am not much of an armchair general, if I was a general on a horse I’d certainly fall off at some point!

    But the Russian tactics and strategy seems obvious to me. There’s no imminent invasion to take Kyiv. There’s not any quick movement into the citys they have crept up on and glaring at. Their tactic will be similar but not as barbaric to how Israel was formed after the British pulled out the levant. The `Russians won’t go in those eastern city’s full of people, they will first sit there menacingly, ramping up rhetoric and pressure whilst what is in front of them to advance into, empty’s of civilians.

    This salami tactic is going to be a lonnnnnnng game.
    Your problem is being nice.


    "To be a good soldier, you must love the army. To be a good commander, you must be willing to order the death of the thing you love."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994–1995)

    For the Greater Russian Nationalists, that was when the fightback began.

    The Russian don't have the luxury of infinite time - wars are expensive.

    They will be looking at a taking Kyiv hard and fast, possibly installing a puppet administration to sign some decrees declaring that large chunks of Ukraine are ceeded to Russia forever, then pull back.

    If that means reducing Kyiv to this

    image

    Why not do it?
    Why not? Handing your opponents publicity coup.

    I not thinking my tactic is too nice, only practical. I wouldn’t want my enemy to get any boost from wall to wall tv coverages of civilian suffering in wars zone, civilian deaths rising, images of refugees with screaming babies and small children - all that on news will pressure Ukraine supporters to offer more help. More practical to want to deny your opponents advantage in the battle for hearts and minds, and more easy to conduct the advance when you only have your opponent combatants left in the areas you can blast away at.

    Where we are tonight I reckon we will be in same place next week, with the lands cities in front the menace emptying of civilians, militia fighting on the up.
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