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Andrew totally dominates the front pages – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,684
edited March 2022 in General
imageAndrew totally dominates the front pages – politicalbetting.com

It is not often that one story totally dominates the front pages and this morning the deal that Prince Andrew did to put an end to the sex assault claims is all over all the papers. Only the Times does not make it the lead story.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,770
    First like a firsty thing in first land
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Clearly not the outcome the press were hoping for.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Google Books has a fair chunk of Holidays in Hell available to read: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Holidays_in_Hell/8ELEochuwQkC?gbpv=1
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    talk about a good day for burying bad news.. even the greased piglet in No10 cant claim a story
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    He has only settled with one claimant. There's also a possibility of other stories emerging regarding his association with Epstein and Maxwell. If the latter's case may goes to retrial it won't help the Andrew story die down, but I think the stories about the pair will continue to run and run regardless.

    Stripping Andrew of the Dukedom would be an interesting betting market.

    Chances of it happening under Charles? Quite high I would say.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    tlg86 said:

    Clearly not the outcome the press were hoping for.

    Yup - no doubt they're now praying for Putin to do the business!
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    edited February 2022
    The monarchy is an absurdity and has pressed self-destruct with a string of appalling scandals.

    The Queen has done a lot for this country but much must change after she dies. There have clearly been some terrible mistakes (e.g. Diana, Camilla, Andrew). A drastically pared down monarchy might help them survive but, really, the whole institution is quite ridiculous. As is the honours system.

    https://twitter.com/RepublicStaff/status/1493586909762891785

  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,639
    edited February 2022
    Which Western leader is going to be sitting at Putin's long table today I wonder...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    tlg86 said:

    Clearly not the outcome the press were hoping for.

    Annoyed they’ve only got one day of headlines out of it - they were salivating at the prospect of several weeks of daily court reporting - and no, not that sort of court reporting.

    Glad for the Queen it’s all sorted though, now it’s just Harry to sort out before the jubilee.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Heathener said:

    He has only settled with one claimant. There's also a possibility of other stories emerging regarding his association with Epstein and Maxwell. If the latter's case may goes to retrial it won't help the Andrew story die down, but I think the stories about the pair will continue to run and run regardless.

    Stripping Andrew of the Dukedom would be an interesting betting market.

    Chances of it happening under Charles? Quite high I would say.

    It will die out anyway when he dies.

    Funky fact - the last person to inherit the Dukedom of York from his father was killed at Agincourt. The title then went to his nephew, who rebelled against Henry VI and was attainted on his death at the Battle of Wakefield. Since then every creation has merged with the Crown or just died out.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Clearly not the outcome the press were hoping for.

    Annoyed they’ve only got one day of headlines out of it - they were salivating at the prospect of several weeks of daily court reporting - and no, not that sort of court reporting.

    Glad for the Queen it’s all sorted though, now it’s just Harry to sort out before the jubilee.
    Harry is fading away in Montecito.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,050
    The Sun and the mail being uncharacteristically optimistic I see
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Clearly not the outcome the press were hoping for.

    Annoyed they’ve only got one day of headlines out of it - they were salivating at the prospect of several weeks of daily court reporting - and no, not that sort of court reporting.

    Glad for the Queen it’s all sorted though, now it’s just Harry to sort out before the jubilee.
    Harry is fading away in Montecito.
    His missus isn’t really going to run for political office either is she?
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,050
    Heathener said:

    He has only settled with one claimant. There's also a possibility of other stories emerging regarding his association with Epstein and Maxwell. If the latter's case may goes to retrial it won't help the Andrew story die down, but I think the stories about the pair will continue to run and run regardless.

    Stripping Andrew of the Dukedom would be an interesting betting market.

    Chances of it happening under Charles? Quite high I would say.

    Charles won’t do that unless there is a specific new story. Andrew is toastier than a toasty thing. He’s an irrelevance. Why stick the knife in to your little brother, no matter how much of a tosspot he is
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,050
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Clearly not the outcome the press were hoping for.

    Annoyed they’ve only got one day of headlines out of it - they were salivating at the prospect of several weeks of daily court reporting - and no, not that sort of court reporting.

    Glad for the Queen it’s all sorted though, now it’s just Harry to sort out before the jubilee.
    Harry is fading away in Montecito.
    He’s as relevant as the Duke of Windsor was. Still, I look forward to the estate sale when he dies. May be some interesting bargains, although he doesn’t have great taste so I doubt there’s much I’d want
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    Heathener said:

    He has only settled with one claimant. There's also a possibility of other stories emerging regarding his association with Epstein and Maxwell. If the latter's case may goes to retrial it won't help the Andrew story die down, but I think the stories about the pair will continue to run and run regardless.

    Stripping Andrew of the Dukedom would be an interesting betting market.

    Chances of it happening under Charles? Quite high I would say.

    Charles won’t do that unless there is a specific new story. Andrew is toastier than a toasty thing. He’s an irrelevance. Why stick the knife in to your little brother, no matter how much of a tosspot he is
    Inappropriate description.

    If he’d stuck to tossing there would be much less of a problem.
  • Options
    Good morning, everyone.

    Quite windy weather today.
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    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    He has only settled with one claimant. There's also a possibility of other stories emerging regarding his association with Epstein and Maxwell. If the latter's case may goes to retrial it won't help the Andrew story die down, but I think the stories about the pair will continue to run and run regardless.

    Stripping Andrew of the Dukedom would be an interesting betting market.

    Chances of it happening under Charles? Quite high I would say.

    It will die out anyway when he dies.

    Funky fact - the last person to inherit the Dukedom of York from his father was killed at Agincourt. The title then went to his nephew, who rebelled against Henry VI and was attainted on his death at the Battle of Wakefield. Since then every creation has merged with the Crown or just died out.
    Past time for the good people of York to raise a petition to have him stripped of the title. I know there are bigger things to worry about, but OTOH it's a lovely city and it's rather sad, having its name in any way associated with that disreputable individual.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,050
    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    He has only settled with one claimant. There's also a possibility of other stories emerging regarding his association with Epstein and Maxwell. If the latter's case may goes to retrial it won't help the Andrew story die down, but I think the stories about the pair will continue to run and run regardless.

    Stripping Andrew of the Dukedom would be an interesting betting market.

    Chances of it happening under Charles? Quite high I would say.

    Charles won’t do that unless there is a specific new story. Andrew is toastier than a toasty thing. He’s an irrelevance. Why stick the knife in to your little brother, no matter how much of a tosspot he is
    Inappropriate description.

    If he’d stuck to tossing there would be much less of a problem.
    Inappropriate to say that someone who likes his booze is a heavy drinker?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    He has only settled with one claimant. There's also a possibility of other stories emerging regarding his association with Epstein and Maxwell. If the latter's case may goes to retrial it won't help the Andrew story die down, but I think the stories about the pair will continue to run and run regardless.

    Stripping Andrew of the Dukedom would be an interesting betting market.

    Chances of it happening under Charles? Quite high I would say.

    Charles won’t do that unless there is a specific new story. Andrew is toastier than a toasty thing. He’s an irrelevance. Why stick the knife in to your little brother, no matter how much of a tosspot he is
    Inappropriate description.

    If he’d stuck to tossing there would be much less of a problem.
    Inappropriate to say that someone who likes his booze is a heavy drinker?
    I think you missed the double meaning...
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,050
    edited February 2022
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    He has only settled with one claimant. There's also a possibility of other stories emerging regarding his association with Epstein and Maxwell. If the latter's case may goes to retrial it won't help the Andrew story die down, but I think the stories about the pair will continue to run and run regardless.

    Stripping Andrew of the Dukedom would be an interesting betting market.

    Chances of it happening under Charles? Quite high I would say.

    Charles won’t do that unless there is a specific new story. Andrew is toastier than a toasty thing. He’s an irrelevance. Why stick the knife in to your little brother, no matter how much of a tosspot he is
    Inappropriate description.

    If he’d stuck to tossing there would be much less of a problem.
    Inappropriate to say that someone who likes his booze is a heavy drinker?
    I think you missed the double meaning...
    What makes you think that?

    “Stupid or obnoxious person” is also a valid description, although opinion not fact
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    He has only settled with one claimant. There's also a possibility of other stories emerging regarding his association with Epstein and Maxwell. If the latter's case may goes to retrial it won't help the Andrew story die down, but I think the stories about the pair will continue to run and run regardless.

    Stripping Andrew of the Dukedom would be an interesting betting market.

    Chances of it happening under Charles? Quite high I would say.

    Charles won’t do that unless there is a specific new story. Andrew is toastier than a toasty thing. He’s an irrelevance. Why stick the knife in to your little brother, no matter how much of a tosspot he is
    Inappropriate description.

    If he’d stuck to tossing there would be much less of a problem.
    Inappropriate to say that someone who likes his booze is a heavy drinker?
    I think you missed the double meaning...
    What makes you think that?
    Because this conversation has gone to pot.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Anyway, focusing on Harold Macmillan's wider vision, I hope @Cicero is right in his optimism but it looks to me on the information we've got - which I also assume is incomplete - that the withdrawal of some units yesterday was a feint to try and catch the Ukrainians off guard.

    If that is what was being done, either Putin is actually as stupid as he looks, or he plans to have such overwhelming force that it's irrelevant whether they're off guard or not.

    Another possibility might be he plans to say 'Look, I was withdrawing, I was doing what people wanted and then the nasty Ukrainians attacked me so I had to go in anyway, it's all their fault waa waa waa (insert other toddler tantrum noises).' The chances of this convincing anyone outside Russia are about the same as my chances of a date with Margot Robbie, but then we're not the target audience.

    Whichever it is, it does rather look as though he - or whoever is in charge - is not acting rationally. Could he really be mad enough to want to reclaim the whole of Ukraine?
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    ydoethur said:

    either Putin is actually as stupid as he looks,?

    No he really isn't.

    Biden and Johnson are the ones being made to look pretty stupid.

    Lots of sabre-rattling and scaremongering and a failure to understand Russia.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited February 2022
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    That sounds like something of an income tax and VAT windfall for the Treasury, that so many of the economically successful choose to base themselves in the UK.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    edited February 2022
    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    either Putin is actually as stupid as he looks,?

    No he really isn't.

    Biden and Johnson are the ones being made to look pretty stupid.

    Lots of sabre-rattling and scaremongering and a failure to understand Russia.
    Very literally, in Truss' case!

    As for the sabre rattling, I think it is fair to say it's Putin that's doing this. Sabre rattling by the West would be sending an American carrier group into the Black Sea. Suggesting that a gas pipeline might not be used if the country that built it commits a war crime is not.

    ETA - my 'stupid as he looks' comment is based on the idea that surely nobody with a brain would have thought the Ukrainians would be fooled by such a feint.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    talk about a good day for burying bad news.. even the greased piglet in No10 cant claim a story

    We may eventually discover that yesterday the Met Police appointed Vinny Jones as the new Commissioner, Boris was fined a million pounds for lockdown breaches (fines paid by a Tory donor, who has now replaced Rishi as Chancellor) and Ukraine now belong Putin.

    But not today.
  • Options
    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.
  • Options
    Makes you proud, doesn't it, that Boris Johnson and Prince Andrew are currently the UK's face to the world.
  • Options

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,002
    ydoethur said:

    Sabre rattling by the West would be sending an American carrier group into the Black Sea.

    The Montreux Convention precludes this so it would be a bit more than sabre rattling.
  • Options

    talk about a good day for burying bad news.. even the greased piglet in No10 cant claim a story

    We may eventually discover that yesterday the Met Police appointed Vinny Jones as the new Commissioner, Boris was fined a million pounds for lockdown breaches (fines paid by a Tory donor, who has now replaced Rishi as Chancellor) and Ukraine now belong Putin.

    But not today.
    To be honest, MM, Vinnie Jones would probably make a pretty good Commissioner of Police.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2022

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    The Guardian repeated the assertion of the voter without any correction.

    FWIW, I also think Matthew Tovey is wrong and the Welsh Government have paid nurses above the rate of inflation.

    I dunno, maybe newspapers have some responsibility to check facts ?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    That sounds like something of an income tax and VAT windfall for the Treasury, that so many of the economically successful choose to base themselves in the UK.
    It also sounds like the financial hubs of Paris and Frankfurt whining "But it was not supposed to be like this after Brexit...."
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sabre rattling by the West would be sending an American carrier group into the Black Sea.

    The Montreux Convention precludes this so it would be a bit more than sabre rattling.
    But isn't the Montreux Convention all about "Yer 'avin' a larf....?

    Or maybe I'm thinking of the Festival....
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.

    The other thing that may happen is a lot of them will walk.

    The fury in education over party gate is something to behold.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    CPI inflation now 5.5%
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,624

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    I'm sure that's a great consolation to him.
    And you appear not to be able to read.
  • Options

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    The Guardian repeated the assertion of the voter without any correction.

    FWIW, I also think Matthew Tovey is wrong and the Welsh Government have paid nurses above the rate of inflation.

    I dunno, maybe newspapers have some responsibility to check facts ?
    Its a talking head, an opinion honestly held. And its not as if the experience of nurses across the dyke are fairing any better is it?

    Again, the *voter* is blaming the Westminster government for something it hasn't directly done. Which is the reverse intent of the government spraying blame away from itself but something they can't really complain about.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Sandpit said:
    Not a problem we'd have with tidal lagoon power stations,.....
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    Sandpit said:
    Not a problem we'd have with tidal lagoon power stations,.....
    Unless the waves smashed them, of course. Which can happen.

    But in principle I agree.

    Have a good morning.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.

    Labour's Welsh NHS austerity.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    It’s depressing that in 2022 the wealthy still set different rules for themselves.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    IanB2 said:

    CPI inflation now 5.5%

    RPI 7.8%...

    CPIH is only 4.9% so pity those who rent or are poor and don't own their own home.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.

    Labour's Welsh NHS austerity.
    Indeed! And like everything else the cash circulates from Westminster. So it doesn't matter that this Nurse is a bit trotty and lives in Wales, his "hang on I did all the work and now can't pay the bills how is that fair" question is exactly what we have been debating on here for a while.

    Inflation plus tax cuts equal unhappy voters. Hard to deflect the blame away from the government though some of you will valiantly try.

    The real risk for the government is if Johnson survives through the summer. His kind of boosterism will clash rather badly with people's lived realities, and his (and his ministerial team's) tendency to sneer and patronise anyone challenging the spin lie will just make it worse. It'll be "you've never had it so good" just as so many of their own voters are thinking the opposite.
  • Options

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.

    The other thing that may happen is a lot of them will walk.

    The fury in education over party gate is something to behold.
    Don't worry. Ministers and their newspapers will be quite happy to attack you all again. Remember that if it wasn't for all you wokeist pinko teachers our kids wouldn't grow up trans wanting to cancel Bernard Manning.
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.

    Labour's Welsh NHS austerity.
    Indeed! And like everything else the cash circulates from Westminster. So it doesn't matter that this Nurse is a bit trotty and lives in Wales, his "hang on I did all the work and now can't pay the bills how is that fair" question is exactly what we have been debating on here for a while.

    Inflation plus tax cuts equal unhappy voters. Hard to deflect the blame away from the government though some of you will valiantly try.

    The real risk for the government is if Johnson survives through the summer. His kind of boosterism will clash rather badly with people's lived realities, and his (and his ministerial team's) tendency to sneer and patronise anyone challenging the spin lie will just make it worse. It'll be "you've never had it so good" just as so many of their own voters are thinking the opposite.

    Johnson will survive and when he is not fighting off the political effects of his various personal transgressions he will be telling voters that they have never had it so good while waging culture war to shore up his base.

  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
  • Options

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    The Guardian repeated the assertion of the voter without any correction.

    FWIW, I also think Matthew Tovey is wrong and the Welsh Government have paid nurses above the rate of inflation.

    I dunno, maybe newspapers have some responsibility to check facts ?
    Its a talking head, an opinion honestly held. And its not as if the experience of nurses across the dyke are fairing any better is it?

    Again, the *voter* is blaming the Westminster government for something it hasn't directly done. Which is the reverse intent of the government spraying blame away from itself but something they can't really complain about.
    One thing it hasn't done, for example, is to provide some sort of bonus for NHS staff who have worked their butts off, often in dangerous conditions, during Covid. Although they will have been paid for the additional hours I'm not sure that can be considered sufficient.
  • Options

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    That campaign has already started. Johnson blustering away at the monies being spent to fix everyone's problems and they have no plan mister speaker. If Johnson had a plan I could understand that attack line. But he doesn't. Most of us on here don't need to understand just how scary the rising prices are to so many. We are the lucky ones. The challenge for the politicians who are also lucky is to understand that what they experience isn't necessarily what most people experience. Johnson fails a wee bit on that front.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    MaxPB said:

    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.

    Labour's Welsh NHS austerity.
    Indeed! And like everything else the cash circulates from Westminster. So it doesn't matter that this Nurse is a bit trotty and lives in Wales, his "hang on I did all the work and now can't pay the bills how is that fair" question is exactly what we have been debating on here for a while.

    Inflation plus tax cuts equal unhappy voters. Hard to deflect the blame away from the government though some of you will valiantly try.

    The real risk for the government is if Johnson survives through the summer. His kind of boosterism will clash rather badly with people's lived realities, and his (and his ministerial team's) tendency to sneer and patronise anyone challenging the spin lie will just make it worse. It'll be "you've never had it so good" just as so many of their own voters are thinking the opposite.

    Johnson will survive and when he is not fighting off the political effects of his various personal transgressions he will be telling voters that they have never had it so good while waging culture war to shore up his base.

    Boris’s Britain will take on his characteristics. An expensive charade, whilst rotten behind the scenes. Not good for whoever has to follow and clear up the mess.
  • Options

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    Yep and you're right. But pointing that out to angry voters in Wales won't do the Tories any favours. People have been worked hard by the media for a decade to not understand stuff, and unfortunately that is going to bite them on the arse hard.

    What could also be a key issue in many rural / far flung / poorer areas is the axing of regional development monies. The EU cash has gone and the pledge to match it dropped. Many places will be viscerally and visibly poorer because of it, just at the time as the cost of living squeeze pinches hardest and the Tories try to parade Brexit benefits.

    When the government itself demonstrates that it doesn't know how stuff works they can hardly complain that their voters are just as ignorant.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Clearly not the outcome the press were hoping for.

    Annoyed they’ve only got one day of headlines out of it - they were salivating at the prospect of several weeks of daily court reporting - and no, not that sort of court reporting.

    Glad for the Queen it’s all sorted though, now it’s just Harry to sort out before the jubilee.
    Sounds ominous! I assume you mean some kind of rapprochement rather than them pulling out their Diana murdering tricks?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,647

    MaxPB said:

    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.

    Labour's Welsh NHS austerity.
    Indeed! And like everything else the cash circulates from Westminster. So it doesn't matter that this Nurse is a bit trotty and lives in Wales, his "hang on I did all the work and now can't pay the bills how is that fair" question is exactly what we have been debating on here for a while.

    Inflation plus tax cuts equal unhappy voters. Hard to deflect the blame away from the government though some of you will valiantly try.

    Indeed perhaps it is because of his lived experience that he "is a bit trotty".

    The young workers being screwed over and over again by this government are hardly going to be turning blue.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    That campaign has already started. Johnson blustering away at the monies being spent to fix everyone's problems and they have no plan mister speaker. If Johnson had a plan I could understand that attack line. But he doesn't. Most of us on here don't need to understand just how scary the rising prices are to so many. We are the lucky ones. The challenge for the politicians who are also lucky is to understand that what they experience isn't necessarily what most people experience. Johnson fails a wee bit on that front.
    People already talking about the price of milk etc being whacked up. Might be more noticable than energy bill rises, weirdly. After all we kind of expect energy companies to raise prices whilst delivering no improvements in service, or indeed any variance in service between the different companies.
  • Options
    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.

    Labour's Welsh NHS austerity.
    Indeed! And like everything else the cash circulates from Westminster. So it doesn't matter that this Nurse is a bit trotty and lives in Wales, his "hang on I did all the work and now can't pay the bills how is that fair" question is exactly what we have been debating on here for a while.

    Inflation plus tax cuts equal unhappy voters. Hard to deflect the blame away from the government though some of you will valiantly try.

    Indeed perhaps it is because of his lived experience that he "is a bit trotty".

    The young workers being screwed over and over again by this government are hardly going to be turning blue.

    Cue HY to insist that they personally voted for Boris in 2019 and will do so again in 2024. Indeed the more that the government hurts them and laughs in their face the more they will vote for him.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,647

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    The Guardian repeated the assertion of the voter without any correction.

    FWIW, I also think Matthew Tovey is wrong and the Welsh Government have paid nurses above the rate of inflation.

    I dunno, maybe newspapers have some responsibility to check facts ?
    Its a talking head, an opinion honestly held. And its not as if the experience of nurses across the dyke are fairing any better is it?

    Again, the *voter* is blaming the Westminster government for something it hasn't directly done. Which is the reverse intent of the government spraying blame away from itself but something they can't really complain about.
    One thing it hasn't done, for example, is to provide some sort of bonus for NHS staff who have worked their butts off, often in dangerous conditions, during Covid. Although they will have been paid for the additional hours I'm not sure that can be considered sufficient.
    Worth noting that it is places like the valleys most hard hit by covid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/15/covid-impact-in-poorer-areas-of-england-and-wales-worse-than-first-thought
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    edited February 2022

    MaxPB said:

    On topic: glad to see the general level of disgust at rich man's "justice"

    Off topic thanks to @pigeon for the piece on pay. This line stood out: "He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    An awful lot of people in an awful lot of jobs worked tirelessly and at some risk through the pandemic and their reward appears to be getting screwed over and sneered at. NHS staff less likely to be Tory voters but plenty in all of the other key worker jobs who kept essential services going.

    Their reward for their vote in 2019 and then their graft is a whopping tax rise, front line NHS cuts and being sneeringly told by ministers that asking for a pay rise is out of order. As the champagne corks pop amongst Tory banking friends.

    A deep sense of unfairness drove first the Brexit vote then the Tory win in 2019. That unfairness, once the target is reversed, will do egregious things to Tory chances in 2024.

    Labour's Welsh NHS austerity.
    Indeed! And like everything else the cash circulates from Westminster. So it doesn't matter that this Nurse is a bit trotty and lives in Wales, his "hang on I did all the work and now can't pay the bills how is that fair" question is exactly what we have been debating on here for a while.

    Inflation plus tax cuts equal unhappy voters. Hard to deflect the blame away from the government though some of you will valiantly try.

    The real risk for the government is if Johnson survives through the summer. His kind of boosterism will clash rather badly with people's lived realities, and his (and his ministerial team's) tendency to sneer and patronise anyone challenging the spin lie will just make it worse. It'll be "you've never had it so good" just as so many of their own voters are thinking the opposite.

    Johnson will survive and when he is not fighting off the political effects of his various personal transgressions he will be telling voters that they have never had it so good while waging culture war to shore up his base.

    The thing about the culture war stuff is less is more - the stuff that cuts through is genuinely dumb and has it's own momentum, if you just randomly bring up referring to chestfeeding every 5 minutes or whatever I dont think it works as well.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    edited February 2022

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The Welsh Government have just awarded all carers a £9.90 ph wage plus a £1,000 tax free cash sum

    They have also announced a care leavers basic income of 1,600 per month

    Good how Westminster money sustains these policies?!!!

    BBC News - Basic income: Wales pilot offers £1,600 a month to care leavers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-60391462
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    Jonathan said:

    It’s depressing that in 2022 the wealthy still set different rules for themselves.

    Why break with 10000 years of tradition?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,647

    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.

    There are two sorts of wealth, income and assets. The first is heavily taxed, the latter much more lightly if at all. This needs to be rebalanced.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited February 2022

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    Yep and you're right. But pointing that out to angry voters in Wales won't do the Tories any favours. People have been worked hard by the media for a decade to not understand stuff, and unfortunately that is going to bite them on the arse hard.

    What could also be a key issue in many rural / far flung / poorer areas is the axing of regional development monies. The EU cash has gone and the pledge to match it dropped. Many places will be viscerally and visibly poorer because of it, just at the time as the cost of living squeeze pinches hardest and the Tories try to parade Brexit benefits.

    When the government itself demonstrates that it doesn't know how stuff works they can hardly complain that their voters are just as ignorant.
    The EU cash was not spent to any great benefit of the residents of Merthyr Tydfil. There was EU cash in Wales, but the beneficiaries were people/institutions that knew how to work the system.

    Where I do agree with you is that the increased cost of living will hurt the Government. In fact, my guess is that is why Johnson is still in place, to take some of the hit.

    As regards Matthew Tovey, after rummaging around his extensive media profile, I rather like the guy -- but he is clearly on the "Starmer Out" wing of the Labour party :wink:

    What he is not is an average, politically disengaged voter from Merthyr Tydfil, as the Guardian present him.

    And the Guardian keep on making this mistake -- picking something wrong with the Welsh NHS and blaming the Tories. Time they learnt.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    It’s depressing that in 2022 the wealthy still set different rules for themselves.

    Why break with 10000 years of tradition?
    I can think of a few reasons.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    I missed the Andrew story yesterday, but it's always the case that a lot if not most people assume allegations are largely true if you settle. I wonder how soon he will try to poke his head above the parapet after this.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,266
    IanB2 said:

    CPI inflation now 5.5%

    According to the Bank of England Inflation Calculator, the average rate of inflation since Decimal Day in 1971 has been 5.6%.

    Does feel a bit like we're at a potential turning point in economic history, where we could be about to enter a period of many years, even decades, of high inflation as globalisation is somewhat reversed. Or it could be a blip while we wait for US gas production to ramp up again.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,994
    Headline on my Guardian..... admittedly website ...... is the cost of living.. Andrew's second.
    And throughout history attractive young women have either been thrown at, or thrown themselves at, princes.
    Sometime's it's worked for them; more often, of course, it hasn't.

    Good morning all; bit windy today, but dry.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.

    Lucky, or was it weight of numbers, that put the boomer generation at the centre of things from the swinging sixties (which was of course mostly in the 70s) onwards?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    Yep and you're right. But pointing that out to angry voters in Wales won't do the Tories any favours. People have been worked hard by the media for a decade to not understand stuff, and unfortunately that is going to bite them on the arse hard.

    What could also be a key issue in many rural / far flung / poorer areas is the axing of regional development monies. The EU cash has gone and the pledge to match it dropped. Many places will be viscerally and visibly poorer because of it, just at the time as the cost of living squeeze pinches hardest and the Tories try to parade Brexit benefits.

    When the government itself demonstrates that it doesn't know how stuff works they can hardly complain that their voters are just as ignorant.
    The EU cash was not spent to any great benefit of the residents of Merthyr Tydfil. There was EU cash in Wales, but the beneficiaries were people/institutions that knew how to work the system.

    Where I do agree with you is that the increased cost of living will hurt the Government. In fact, my guess is that is why Johnson is still in place, to take some of the hit.

    As regards Matthew Tovey, after rummaging around his extensive media profile, I rather like the guy -- but he is clearly on the "Starmer Out" wing of the Labour party :wink:

    What he is not is an average, politically disengaged voter from Merthyr Tydfil, as the Guardian present him.

    And the Guardian keep on making this mistake -- picking something wrong with the Welsh NHS and blaming the Tories. Time they learnt.
    Oh, that old trick again, of presenting a political activist as a neutral professional. Guido has long list of these from the broadcast media.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    IanB2 said:

    CPI inflation now 5.5%

    According to the Bank of England Inflation Calculator, the average rate of inflation since Decimal Day in 1971 has been 5.6%.

    Does feel a bit like we're at a potential turning point in economic history, where we could be about to enter a period of many years, even decades, of high inflation as globalisation is somewhat reversed. Or it could be a blip while we wait for US gas production to ramp up again.
    I would need @Rcs1000 to confirm but I remember reading a while back that many of the easiest to access US fracking sites are now spent or inoperable for various reasons - so the real cheap days have already gone.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The Welsh Government have just awarded all carers a £9.90 ph wage plus a £1,000 tax free cash sum

    They have also announced a care leavers basic income of 1,600 per month

    Good how Westminster money sustains these policies?!!!

    BBC News - Basic income: Wales pilot offers £1,600 a month to care leavers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-60391462
    That care leavers income package is brilliant - it is just the sort of thing that would allow care leavers to make sensible decisions before setting off in live.

    It really needs to be implemented UK wide immediately rather than waiting to see the success.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,050
    edited February 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sabre rattling by the West would be sending an American carrier group into the Black Sea.

    The Montreux Convention precludes this so it would be a bit more than sabre rattling.
    Wasn’t there a photo the other day of a Russian sub sailing (?) through the Bosphorus? Wouldn’t that also be a breach?
  • Options
    Dr. Foxy, interesting. How much would you cut income tax by?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,002

    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.

    Cancel student debt and fund the return of LA grants.
    Residential property tax.
    RTB for private tenants.
  • Options
    eek said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The Welsh Government have just awarded all carers a £9.90 ph wage plus a £1,000 tax free cash sum

    They have also announced a care leavers basic income of 1,600 per month

    Good how Westminster money sustains these policies?!!!

    BBC News - Basic income: Wales pilot offers £1,600 a month to care leavers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-60391462
    That care leavers income package is brilliant - it is just the sort of thing that would allow care leavers to make sensible decisions before setting off in live.

    It really needs to be implemented UK wide immediately rather than waiting to see the success.
    It was discussed on the Welsh news and there are pros and cons and the main con is it does not give the incentive to go out and find work

    Sensible to wait for the results as it is very expensive

  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.

    Cancel student debt and fund the return of LA grants.
    Residential property tax.
    RTB for private tenants.
    I doubt a residential property tax on top of rates would find support
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,671
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.

    Cancel student debt and fund the return of LA grants.
    Residential property tax.
    RTB for private tenants.
    Are we talking about how to pay for Andrew's settlement?
  • Options
    Starmer still over 8 on Betfair to be next PM. Seems value.

  • Options
    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    CPI inflation now 5.5%

    RPI 7.8%...

    CPIH is only 4.9% so pity those who rent or are poor and don't own their own home.
    They should either have become Top City Lawyers or had a maiden aunt who left them their house, shouldn't they?

    Lack of foresight always costs.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,002

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sabre rattling by the West would be sending an American carrier group into the Black Sea.

    The Montreux Convention precludes this so it would be a bit more than sabre rattling.
    Wasn’t there a photo the other day of a Russian sub sailing (?) through the Bosphorus? Wouldn’t that also be a breach?
    Russia is a Black Sea power and has less requirements on notification and no restriction on tonnage. Hence why the Kuznetzov (with its slightly dodgy classficaton has a cruiser) has passed through the Turkish Straits.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,994
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sabre rattling by the West would be sending an American carrier group into the Black Sea.

    The Montreux Convention precludes this so it would be a bit more than sabre rattling.
    Wasn’t there a photo the other day of a Russian sub sailing (?) through the Bosphorus? Wouldn’t that also be a breach?
    Russia is a Black Sea power and has less requirements on notification and no restriction on tonnage. Hence why the Kuznetzov (with its slightly dodgy classficaton has a cruiser) has passed through the Turkish Straits.
    Always been a Russian issue, IIRC; access to ice free high seas.
  • Options
    Far from being the victory which some are claiming it to have been, today's Divisional Court decision about Dido Harding's appointment is a massive blow to the Good Law Project and its ability to meddle in all manner of governmental decisions

    https://twitter.com/greatstrides65/status/1493566370201710603?s=21
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,994

    Far from being the victory which some are claiming it to have been, today's Divisional Court decision about Dido Harding's appointment is a massive blow to the Good Law Project and its ability to meddle in all manner of governmental decisions

    https://twitter.com/greatstrides65/status/1493566370201710603?s=21

    It might also incite a Government as uncommitted to the rule of law as this one to make changes in the rules.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    Yep and you're right. But pointing that out to angry voters in Wales won't do the Tories any favours. People have been worked hard by the media for a decade to not understand stuff, and unfortunately that is going to bite them on the arse hard.

    What could also be a key issue in many rural / far flung / poorer areas is the axing of regional development monies. The EU cash has gone and the pledge to match it dropped. Many places will be viscerally and visibly poorer because of it, just at the time as the cost of living squeeze pinches hardest and the Tories try to parade Brexit benefits.

    When the government itself demonstrates that it doesn't know how stuff works they can hardly complain that their voters are just as ignorant.
    The EU cash was not spent to any great benefit of the residents of Merthyr Tydfil. There was EU cash in Wales, but the beneficiaries were people/institutions that knew how to work the system.

    Where I do agree with you is that the increased cost of living will hurt the Government. In fact, my guess is that is why Johnson is still in place, to take some of the hit.

    As regards Matthew Tovey, after rummaging around his extensive media profile, I rather like the guy -- but he is clearly on the "Starmer Out" wing of the Labour party :wink:

    What he is not is an average, politically disengaged voter from Merthyr Tydfil, as the Guardian present him.

    And the Guardian keep on making this mistake -- picking something wrong with the Welsh NHS and blaming the Tories. Time they learnt.
    Oh, that old trick again, of presenting a political activist as a neutral professional. Guido has long list of these from the broadcast media.
    Because its only done by "lefty" media? Clearly, hence why we have neutral observers like the Taxpayers Alliance endlessly presented by the Mail et al.

    Nobody has come forward and said this guys comments are misrepresentative of how people feel. People will blame the government for feeling worse off. That they may have their target wrong is unfortunate for he government in this instance but it has been direct government policy to pin blame for cuts onto the people who aren't responsible.

    They - and you - can hardly now complain that punters don't know where to point the finger.
  • Options
    Yesterday was a great day for the victims of (child) sexual abuse and the republican movement in this country.

    So Brenda is going to help pay the £12 million settlement, an utter disgrace.

    The Supreme Governor of the Church of England is setting a marvellous example.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    Yep and you're right. But pointing that out to angry voters in Wales won't do the Tories any favours. People have been worked hard by the media for a decade to not understand stuff, and unfortunately that is going to bite them on the arse hard.

    What could also be a key issue in many rural / far flung / poorer areas is the axing of regional development monies. The EU cash has gone and the pledge to match it dropped. Many places will be viscerally and visibly poorer because of it, just at the time as the cost of living squeeze pinches hardest and the Tories try to parade Brexit benefits.

    When the government itself demonstrates that it doesn't know how stuff works they can hardly complain that their voters are just as ignorant.
    The EU cash was not spent to any great benefit of the residents of Merthyr Tydfil. There was EU cash in Wales, but the beneficiaries were people/institutions that knew how to work the system.

    Where I do agree with you is that the increased cost of living will hurt the Government. In fact, my guess is that is why Johnson is still in place, to take some of the hit.

    As regards Matthew Tovey, after rummaging around his extensive media profile, I rather like the guy -- but he is clearly on the "Starmer Out" wing of the Labour party :wink:

    What he is not is an average, politically disengaged voter from Merthyr Tydfil, as the Guardian present him.

    And the Guardian keep on making this mistake -- picking something wrong with the Welsh NHS and blaming the Tories. Time they learnt.
    Does the Welsh Government have significant tax raising powers, like we do up here in Scotland?

    I appreciate that borrowing is important, but while SC/WA are in Union with England all that really means is borrowing off the English given the tax/expenditure differential.

    @RochdalePioneers is wrong to suggest that voters have been hoodwinked by devolution. If they are holding the SG etc to account, while they have tax powers, then it's working exactly as it should.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.

    Cancel student debt and fund the return of LA grants.
    Residential property tax.
    RTB for private tenants.
    Not so convinced about the third.

    But a Government that just did one of the top two would be worth voting for.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,197

    eek said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Meanwhile, away from the utterly irrelevant ex-royal idiot, the Great British banking industry continues its superb PR effort for socialism:

    February 4th: BoE boss Bailey calls for wage restraint to control inflation

    https://www.cityam.com/boe-boss-bailey-calls-for-wage-restraint-to-control-inflation/

    This morning: ‘We’ve had a run on champagne:’ Biggest UK banker bonuses since financial crash

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    Tovey, who uses his car to commute to work, has seen the cost of diesel rise sharply and is concerned that his pay packet will not keep up with the surge in gas and electricity bills due in April. “I’m quite fearful of how I’m going to manage,” he said.

    He said it felt as if NHS staff had been ignored despite being on the frontline of the pandemic. “I worked through three waves, and they stood on their doorsteps and clapped, but they’re taking food away from our tables, really.”

    Having gone to university to become a nurse, Tovey says he probably earns more than other people but is still struggling. “It feels like if I’ve worked hard and gone into a profession to better myself, and I’m in this position, how the hell are other people coping?

    “It impacts on your mental health, there’s nowhere to turn. You’re caught between a rock and a hard place and you wonder, when are we going to have a break?”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/15/when-will-we-have-a-break-the-cost-of-growing-inflation

    This week British bankers will start collecting the biggest bonuses since before the 2008 global financial crisis as their employers fight an “increasingly intense war for talent”.

    As most Britons face the biggest squeeze on their incomes since at least 1990, already very highly paid bankers are celebrating “particularly obscene” bonuses in the City’s pubs and wine bars.

    “We have had quite the run on champagne – the poshest champagne we stock,” says James, a bartender at the New Moon on the streets of Leadenhall Market near the headquarters of many of the City of London’s banks. “They come here to celebrate when they get told their ‘number’ – the numbers seem to have been particularly obscene this year.”

    ...

    The bumper bonuses will tip several hundred more UK bankers into the EU’s “high earners” warning report which details every banker earning more than €1m (£835,000) a year. The European Banking Authority (EBA) found that 3,519 bankers working in the UK earned more than €1m-a-year last year – more than seven times as many as those working in Germany which has the second highest number of €1m-a-year bankers.

    The EBA figures show 27 UK bankers earned more than €10m in 2019 (the latest year available). Two UK-based asset managers were paid between €38m and €39m, and one merchant banker was paid €64.8m. That banker received fixed pay of €242,000, topped up with a bonus of €64.6m.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/feb/16/weve-had-a-run-on-champagne-biggest-uk-banker-bonuses-since-financial-crash
    Matthew Tovey, NHS nurse, south Wales

    “It seems to me like I’m just working to be able to cover the bills,” said Matthew Tovey. The 30-year-old from Merthyr Tydfil, south Wales, said his pay had not risen above inflation for a decade under the Conservatives’ austerity drive.

    The Guardian appears to be unaware that Merthyr Tydfil is in Wales, that health is devolved, and that pay and conditions are the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The joys of "lets keep people stupid" politics. The Tory tactics during austerity was cut nationally and pass the blame locally. The idea being that they gut the finances of Labour councils and then get voted in with the Labour councillors getting the blame. It worked - so many people had no clue how funding worked.

    So here it isn't The Guardian that is ignorant of how things work, it is the *voter*. Exactly what the Tories wanted.
    And indeed, some googling reveals Matthew Tovey hardly to be an ignorant average "voter".

    My guess from Tovey's social media profile and the images of him with Jeremy Corbyn is he may not be entirely a political naif.

    I am not sure that it would be the greatest strategy in the world for the Tories to claim there is not a serious cost of living crisis for millions of working people people across the UK.

    I am not a Tory strategist.

    My only point is that the Welsh NHS is the responsibility of the Welsh Government.
    The Welsh Government have just awarded all carers a £9.90 ph wage plus a £1,000 tax free cash sum

    They have also announced a care leavers basic income of 1,600 per month

    Good how Westminster money sustains these policies?!!!

    BBC News - Basic income: Wales pilot offers £1,600 a month to care leavers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-60391462
    That care leavers income package is brilliant - it is just the sort of thing that would allow care leavers to make sensible decisions before setting off in live.

    It really needs to be implemented UK wide immediately rather than waiting to see the success.
    It was discussed on the Welsh news and there are pros and cons and the main con is it does not give the incentive to go out and find work

    Sensible to wait for the results as it is very expensive

    I agree that the Welsh Government need to be removed and the glorious Andrew RT Davies installed as FM, and everything the current WG do is bad, but this idea is a positive one. I do not believe it disincentivises either, quite the opposite.

    Your hero Dishy Rishi's convoluted furlough schemes, although in some form necessary, now they disincentivised.
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    Foxy said:

    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.

    There are two sorts of wealth, income and assets. The first is heavily taxed, the latter much more lightly if at all. This needs to be rebalanced.
    Foxy said:

    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.

    There are two sorts of wealth, income and assets. The first is heavily taxed, the latter much more lightly if at all. This needs to be rebalanced.
    Now I am not going to go all HYUFD on this as I don't disagree but you have to be careful re pensions particularly with the decline of DB schemes. Not that I am biased or anything but whereas you will receive an NHS pension I am entirely dependent upon the wealth I have built up. People forget the capital value of their DB pensions and unless you want to apply a wealth tax to DB pensions (how paid?) anything else would be unreasonable and also make some retirements unviable.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,050
    Foxy said:

    Dr. Foxy, what would you do differently?

    Some changes (NI on pensions) are possible, but otherwise it seems to be largely a matter of luck as to how well or badly a generation does. Baby boomers got lucky. Young people today much less so.

    There are two sorts of wealth, income and assets. The first is heavily taxed, the latter much more lightly if at all. This needs to be rebalanced.
    How about optimising spending?
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,197

    Yesterday was a great day for the victims of (child) sexual abuse and the republican movement in this country.

    So Brenda is going to help pay the £12 million settlement, an utter disgrace.

    The Supreme Governor of the Church of England is setting a marvellous example.

    You'll be even more triggered this time next year when Andrew is welcomed back into the fold via the tradesman's entrance..

    Anyway, it's not like Andrew did something really, really bad like Harry.
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