Americans. They regard Sunday as the first day of the week. Also, Kiev time. midnight on Sunday is now 26.25 hours away.
50.25 hours, please! We're British!
I was not aware that was an american thing. I've always thought Sunday was the first day of the week.
"While in North America Sunday is the first day of the week, Europeans commonly consider Monday as the first day of the week and the Geneva-based International Organization for Standardization places Monday as the first day of the week in its ISO 8601 standard."
Its a Judeo/Christian v pragmatists distinction. As everyone knows in the Genesis myth God rested on the 7th and last day of the week. This was the sabbat, called by us Saturday. The Jewish day of rest to this day
This makes Sunday the first day of the week. If you doubt it read the gospel of John 20. v 1 which says it explicitly. The resurrection was said to have occurred then, which is why Christians keep holy the 1st, not the 7th day.
Pragmatists make Monday the first day of the week because the ancient division means you turn over your diary page in the middle of the weekend which is irrational to the middle class 9-5 Monday-Friday people who make rules for the rest of us.
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I suspect there is a deal to be done and as we saw over the negotiations to leave the EU, the public posturing and point-scoring and sabre rattling masks the proper serious work being done to de-escalate all this. There will be concessions to Putin and we must recognise his "face" needs to be saved as much as anyone's from all this.
He gets a way out, a few calls are made, a few offers are made behind the scenes and it's a small prize for us all to sleep safely in our beds (or someone else's I don't judge).
He wins hypothetical run offs against Le Pen (55-45), Pecresse (56-44) and Zemmour (61-39).
The scrap to be Macron's second round victim continues with Le Pen on 17% two points ahead of Zemmour and Pecresse who are tied on 15% and well ahead of Melanchon on 10.5%. Macron has a solid lead with 25.5% of the vote in the first round of voting which is only a couple of months away.
As Russia goes into the Ukraine Meat Grinder (dreadful phrase but one used on PB) committing themselves being bogged down in there - could we not blind side them (rugby tactics) and free the Belarusians from their mad and undemocratic dictator?
How quick and effectively can NATO take Belarus and install decent government in the capital whilst they organise proper fair elections this time to cement that position? I’m not the war expert like many here are, but looking at the map, Russia may be advancing out of Belarus facing the wrong way whilst we zoom in the right way
As Russia goes into the Ukraine Meat Grinder (dreadful phrase but one used on PB) committing themselves being bogged down in there - could we not blind side them (rugby tactics) and free the Belarusians from their mad and undemocratic dictator?
How quick and effectively can NATO take Belarus and install decent government in the capital whilst they organise proper fair elections this time to cement that position? I’m not the war expert like many here are, but looking at the map, Russia may be advancing out of Belarus facing the wrong way whilst we zoom in the right way
Easy?
Yours - Jade Bonapartey the First
Of the trouble we could cause if we chose, destabilising Lukashenko at home in the chaos feels like an option, but NATO troops rolling into Minsk, I doubt.
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I suspect there is a deal to be done and as we saw over the negotiations to leave the EU, the public posturing and point-scoring and sabre rattling masks the proper serious work being done to de-escalate all this. There will be concessions to Putin and we must recognise his "face" needs to be saved as much as anyone's from all this.
He gets a way out, a few calls are made, a few offers are made behind the scenes and it's a small prize for us all to sleep safely in our beds (or someone else's I don't judge).
“Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.”
Are we being fair with the flak Truss taking. In a bottle half full sense, I think Liz Truss would make a fine Travel Agent, because she knows where quite a lot of these funny far away foreign place names actually are.
Do like me you think we are actually seeing the worst not best of these cabinet personalities, as they preen and jockey into position for the coming leadership election?
Except Rishi Sunak. I always felt he was the most decent and honest of the Boris Cabinet of Sycophants - how uncomfortable and uncommitted Sunak looks when saying as quickly as possible “Prime Minister Boris Johnson has my full support” absolutely proves it 🙂
As Russia goes into the Ukraine Meat Grinder (dreadful phrase but one used on PB) committing themselves being bogged down in there - could we not blind side them (rugby tactics) and free the Belarusians from their mad and undemocratic dictator?
How quick and effectively can NATO take Belarus and install decent government in the capital whilst they organise proper fair elections this time to cement that position? I’m not the war expert like many here are, but looking at the map, Russia may be advancing out of Belarus facing the wrong way whilst we zoom in the right way
Easy?
Yours - Jade Bonapartey the First
Of the trouble we could cause if we chose, destabilising Lukashenko at home in the chaos feels like an option, but NATO troops rolling into Minsk, I doubt.
Then we are being inconsistent. What’s the difference between Belarus and Ukraine? Truth is Ukraine managed to expel Russian stooge and have democracy first, that’s the only difference - surely when it kicks off, the Belarus everyday people deserve our liberation just as much as the Ukrainians?
As Russia goes into the Ukraine Meat Grinder (dreadful phrase but one used on PB) committing themselves being bogged down in there - could we not blind side them (rugby tactics) and free the Belarusians from their mad and undemocratic dictator?
How quick and effectively can NATO take Belarus and install decent government in the capital whilst they organise proper fair elections this time to cement that position? I’m not the war expert like many here are, but looking at the map, Russia may be advancing out of Belarus facing the wrong way whilst we zoom in the right way
Easy?
Yours - Jade Bonapartey the First
QTWTAIN.
1) No such thing as an easy war 2) NATO does not exist to invade countries posing no direct threat to NATO territory 3) The appetite for war in distant parts of which we know little in the west in below zero. 4) A similar number, Zero, of mothers in the west are willing to see their children come home in body bags for a fight in which we are under no threat of direct invasion 5) The last UK leader who thought this sort of thing was a decent wheeze was Cameron, who tried to persuade us that there were moderate liberal minded tolerant Syrians who we could fight for and with. Even the House of Commons could spot the flaw.
Ukraine Gave Up a Giant Nuclear Arsenal 30 Years Ago. Today There Are Regrets.
When the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine turned over thousands of atomic weapons in exchange for security guarantees from Russia, the United States and other countries.
At the end of the Cold War, the third largest nuclear power on earth was not Britain, France or China. It was Ukraine. The Soviet collapse, a slow-motion downfall that culminated in December 1991, resulted in the newly independent Ukraine inheriting roughly 5,000 nuclear arms that Moscow had stationed on its soil. Underground silos on its military bases held long-range missiles that carried up to 10 thermonuclear warheads, each far stronger than the bomb that leveled Hiroshima. Only Russia and the United States had more weapons.
The removal of this arsenal often gets hailed as a triumph of arms control. Diplomats and peace activists cast Ukraine as a model citizen in a world of would-be nuclear powers.
As Russia goes into the Ukraine Meat Grinder (dreadful phrase but one used on PB) committing themselves being bogged down in there - could we not blind side them (rugby tactics) and free the Belarusians from their mad and undemocratic dictator?
How quick and effectively can NATO take Belarus and install decent government in the capital whilst they organise proper fair elections this time to cement that position? I’m not the war expert like many here are, but looking at the map, Russia may be advancing out of Belarus facing the wrong way whilst we zoom in the right way
Easy?
Yours - Jade Bonapartey the First
Of the trouble we could cause if we chose, destabilising Lukashenko at home in the chaos feels like an option, but NATO troops rolling into Minsk, I doubt.
He is surviving by the grace of Russian troops. If they are tied down in Ukraine, he will be more buggered than a reluctant Turkish conscript.
Unless an awful lot of clever people are humongously deluded, Russia is likely going to invade Ukraine, next week
Or are they playing chess with Putin, putting pressure on him by making it seem that an invasion is almost certain now, so he has to come back with some better negotiating positions? He wants results me thinks not to be bogged down in a war.
Would he get “bogged down”? He could seize the Russian speaking parts of Ukraine with impunity. Appear as a liberator. Raising their GDP per capita overnight. Russia is enlarged.
No one will fight for those bits. Certainly not us
It’s whether he goes for Kiev, Odessaand Western Ukraine, where he WOULD face huge resistance and guerilla war. I doubt that. We may be about to witness the (further) partition of Ukraine
Big mistake to believe the Russian speaking part of Ukraine would regard him as a liberator. I'm not sure Crimeans are that happy now with the situation. Being governed by Putin's mafia isn't much fun. There's obviously a fair bit of discontent in Russia itself. The trouble is that we signed up to 1994 Treaty on Ukranian nuclear disarmament and the Ukranians themselves signed the Minsk agreement. On the other side you've got some autocratic thugs.
I just hope the message is clear that a further incursion would mean freezing of UK assets of the Russian elite. Sending a few hundred troops to Poland is not really a serious threat.
According to Wikipedia 78% of Ukrainians regard themselves as ethnic Ukrainians, but only 67% of Ukrainians regard Ukrainian as their native language. So a fair proportion of Russian speakers feel Ukrainian, and I expect a lot more would rather not be ruled by Putin.
Very funny. It is odd though that white nationalist grumpy flag wavers who use a nations flag as the emblem of a narrow political cause are usually thought a bit off by right thinking people. The SNP's slightly woke image despite their repellent and aggressive flag waving is a strange exception.
The question that has been troubling me for many months is as follows: If we are trying to bring up children with no concept of violence, and (from what I can observe at my sons junior school) socialising them out of their aggressive instincts at an early age, then how will we ever defend ourselves against a country like Russia?
He wins hypothetical run offs against Le Pen (55-45), Pecresse (56-44) and Zemmour (61-39).
The scrap to be Macron's second round victim continues with Le Pen on 17% two points ahead of Zemmour and Pecresse who are tied on 15% and well ahead of Melanchon on 10.5%. Macron has a solid lead with 25.5% of the vote in the first round of voting which is only a couple of months away.
Opinion Way has Pecresse closer, Pecresse 47% to Macron's 53%. Macron beats Le Pen by about the same margin 56% to 44% and beats Zemmour by 62% to 38%.
Le Pen just ahead of Pecresse in round 1 17% to 16% for the runoff with Macron spot with Zemmour trailing on 14%
As Russia goes into the Ukraine Meat Grinder (dreadful phrase but one used on PB) committing themselves being bogged down in there - could we not blind side them (rugby tactics) and free the Belarusians from their mad and undemocratic dictator?
How quick and effectively can NATO take Belarus and install decent government in the capital whilst they organise proper fair elections this time to cement that position? I’m not the war expert like many here are, but looking at the map, Russia may be advancing out of Belarus facing the wrong way whilst we zoom in the right way
Easy?
Yours - Jade Bonapartey the First
Aren't there a few Russian troops in Belarus, who might object?
Lucy Fisher @LOS_Fisher · 31m Important: US National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan stresses Washington is not saying Putin has made a decision on Ukraine (contra PBS report).
He says Moscow’s put in place all forces needed to conduct a major military action, so now a “distinct possibility” Putin could act.
I'm beginning to think (hope?) that the West is calling Putin's bluff tonight, having calculated that he lacks the strength for a successful invasion. Either he goes in and gets beaten or he stays out and loses face.
Agree. They want him to get beaten. Take back Crimea and Donblas and overthrown Putin. Simples.
She nicked the idea - Cressida moaning about fictional TV portrayals of the police - from PB. I wrote that as long ago as last June.
Not the first time PB headers get "borrowed" from by paid journalists.They could at least credit PB, OGH and his wonderful header writers. (Or share their fee .....?)
Humph ....😡
Influencing journalists used to be the point of pb. Around 2010 I used to wonder if I was the only PBer who was not a CCHQ-sponsored astroturfer, especially on Wednesday lunchtimes when pb would be full of messages about David Cameron's triumph at PMQs, even when it was clear he'd been KO'd by the clunking great fist.
Talking of GCHQ-sponsored astroturfers what on earth has happened to Philip Thompson? The story so far.....
from being the most prolific poster since records began his output dried up. This coincided with Partygate.
He then returned in the guise of Bartholomew Roberts (wasn't that Thatcher's maiden name?) but with a much reduced output.
Either he REALLY was a GCHQ-sponsored astroturfer who was cleared out with the bathwater of Partygate or a genuine crazy propagandist who couldn't face seeing the man he considered the greatest Prime Minister since Churchill being revealed as a buffoon.
It was educational watching how strictly liberterian pirate positions survived under scrutiny on here. They never survived, but always reveal new angles on things looking in that particular mirror.
Whose the nearest thing to Libertarian Pirate still posting?
The closest thing to St Bart’s positions was not Bojoism but ReformUK. Do we have have ReformUK supporters posting?
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I don't really understand this bit. The UK government hasn't invented Putin's aggression. So they had two choices, either go along with the rest of the West in recognising it - or ignoring it.
I'm pretty sure the people complaining Boris is playing it up to shore up his own position would be making the same complaint if he took Putin's side.
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I don't really understand this bit. The UK government hasn't invented Putin's aggression. So they had two choices, either go along with the rest of the West in recognising it - or ignoring it.
I'm pretty sure the people complaining Boris is playing it up to shore up his own position would be making the same complaint if he took Putin's side.
Well, yes, because everything the PM does is to shore up his own position. Can you really not see that?
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I don't really understand this bit. The UK government hasn't invented Putin's aggression. So they had two choices, either go along with the rest of the West in recognising it - or ignoring it.
I'm pretty sure the people complaining Boris is playing it up to shore up his own position would be making the same complaint if he took Putin's side.
Well, yes, because everything the PM does is to shore up his own position. Can you really not see that?
If that is going to be the complaint irrespective of what he does, it's meaningless.
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I don't really understand this bit. The UK government hasn't invented Putin's aggression. So they had two choices, either go along with the rest of the West in recognising it - or ignoring it.
I'm pretty sure the people complaining Boris is playing it up to shore up his own position would be making the same complaint if he took Putin's side.
Well, yes, because everything the PM does is to shore up his own position. Can you really not see that?
If that is going to be the complaint irrespective of what he does, it's meaningless.
True, but that's what happens when someone's credibility reaches zero.
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I don't really understand this bit. The UK government hasn't invented Putin's aggression. So they had two choices, either go along with the rest of the West in recognising it - or ignoring it.
I'm pretty sure the people complaining Boris is playing it up to shore up his own position would be making the same complaint if he took Putin's side.
Well, yes, because everything the PM does is to shore up his own position. Can you really not see that?
If that is going to be the complaint irrespective of what he does, it's meaningless.
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I don't really understand this bit. The UK government hasn't invented Putin's aggression. So they had two choices, either go along with the rest of the West in recognising it - or ignoring it.
I'm pretty sure the people complaining Boris is playing it up to shore up his own position would be making the same complaint if he took Putin's side.
Well, yes, because everything the PM does is to shore up his own position. Can you really not see that?
If that is going to be the complaint irrespective of what he does, it's meaningless.
The truth is, He is tottering on a precipice he can’t move away from, everything he now does until he falls in will be seen through the lens of him trying desperately to avoid his imminent fate.
If he could grab a cheeky extra little sliver of Ukraine whilst securing Donbass, which area would Putin choose?
Mariupol and a land corridor to Crimea
More or less this:
Though why then are troops in Belarus and Voronezh?
Maybe more likely to take everything East of the Dneiper.
Taking Kiev briefly to trash it and demonstrate the inability of the current government/West to defend it would be worth doing as a punitive expedition, and then Russia can withdraw to a smaller area, which might be accepted by some in the West as a compromise.
The British nuclear arsenal alone should be enough to wipe out Moscow and all Russian cities with populations over a million in response with Trident nuclear missiles if that ever occurred
The British nuclear arsenal alone should be enough to wipe out Moscow and all Russian cities with populations over a million in response with Trident nuclear missiles
In the event of an all out nuclear strike your best bet is to be as close to the point of impact as possible. The last thing you want to do is survive the initial blast.
In the event of an all out nuclear strike your best bet is to be as close to the point of impact as possible. The last thing you want to do is survive the initial blast.
Yes, had that thought as I said bugger. Am within a mile of the centre of town. But still, bugger.
The British nuclear arsenal alone should be enough to wipe out Moscow and all Russian cities with populations over a million in response with Trident nuclear missiles
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I suspect there is a deal to be done and as we saw over the negotiations to leave the EU, the public posturing and point-scoring and sabre rattling masks the proper serious work being done to de-escalate all this. There will be concessions to Putin and we must recognise his "face" needs to be saved as much as anyone's from all this.
He gets a way out, a few calls are made, a few offers are made behind the scenes and it's a small prize for us all to sleep safely in our beds (or someone else's I don't judge).
The question that has been troubling me for many months is as follows: If we are trying to bring up children with no concept of violence, and (from what I can observe at my sons junior school) socialising them out of their aggressive instincts at an early age, then how will we ever defend ourselves against a country like Russia?
Just have to hope that Russia doesn’t use female or LBTQ+ troops that they will refuse to fight.
US BELIEVES PUTIN HAS DECIDED TO INVADE UKRAINE, EXPECT INVASION TO BEGIN NEXT WEEK - NBC
Well that ensures no challenge to Boris likely until May.
Economic sanctions on Russia will follow and further military reinforcements sent by NATO to Poland and the Baltic States
“ Well that ensures no challenge to Boris likely until May. “
Fact 3x Winner Lady Thatcher voncked out of politics whilst leading the world into the desert war, proves you are utterly wrong in that claim.
Boris can be voncked and out of politics by this time next week, everything now aligning for that.
She was not voiced, Heseltine challenged her and a war with Iraq was a rather different scenario to a looming confrontation with Russia.
Though unless Russia invaded a NATO state I imagine economic sanctions would do for now
Well, it was a vote, and she struggled. The Khaki nature of the foreign situation didn’t mean she was safe till later, what needed to be done went ahead.
I don’t want to be rude or anything, I’m also not sure “deficit not averaging over ten, so Boris safe” spin stands up either. This I took from a PB header from Mike Smithson. It is Lady Thatchers last polls before being removed. It’s not a succession of plus ten deficits at time her vonc, also Conservative share column is high doesn’t dip below the 35. Boris isn’t breaking 35 for lot of months.
my analysis is I think now my Dad might be right, 54 Leters could happen any moment regardless of being sure of a vonking win or not.
Add to that the recollections that at PMQs, her MPs were boisterously for Lady Thatcher around the time of her vonc. Now Boris back benchers rather mooted in chamber, uncommunicative to local media when asked their thoughts.
Add to that, say he is and always has been electoral catnip might be missing that he is now viewed in different way by so many, as less trustworthy less likeable man. Even if he gets to next election it’s not the Boris of last time or his Mayor wins. his mask has slipped. As Marquee Mark said to help us - it would be a hard sell.
Add to that, in this current saga, before and post Christmas, a lull in news narrative or closing of polls proves Boris isn’t out the worst, because it doesn’t take much at all and in hours it turns into blitzkrieg on Boris again. That’s a pattern is it not?
Makes analysis that he hasn’t survived because he can’t now. All he has survived is not toppling into the Abyss yet. A week or so ago I was believing he could move away from the edge of the abyss and go on to fight the next election, but Grays interim report gave the certainty he knew he partied when he told parliament he wasn’t aware of parties, his response to Grays report that day was so abysmal, Johnson can’t move away from the edge now. He is there till he topples in.
Maybe this week. I’ve got a feeling it is reached in recess, goes ahead week after, he doesn’t even get another PMQ.
You can bet against MoonRabbit’s feelings on these things if you like 😈
The British nuclear arsenal alone should be enough to wipe out Moscow and all Russian cities with populations over a million in response with Trident nuclear missiles
I thought Macron was going to save the day? Bloody French.
IF, and rather like @Heathener, I don't think Putin wants to attack the Ukraine, it will show Johnson and Truss's posturing will have been as unsuccessful as the alternative strategy.
I suspect there is a deal to be done and as we saw over the negotiations to leave the EU, the public posturing and point-scoring and sabre rattling masks the proper serious work being done to de-escalate all this. There will be concessions to Putin and we must recognise his "face" needs to be saved as much as anyone's from all this.
He gets a way out, a few calls are made, a few offers are made behind the scenes and it's a small prize for us all to sleep safely in our beds (or someone else's I don't judge).
Reckon we can get some cheap gas out the deal ?
The whole purpose of the nuclear deterrent is to remind Putin what our response would be if he ever launched a first strike nuclear attack on us
"The Pentagon on Friday ordered 3,000 additional troops to Poland, bringing to 5,000 the total number of reinforcements sent to Europe in the past two weeks."
US BELIEVES PUTIN HAS DECIDED TO INVADE UKRAINE, EXPECT INVASION TO BEGIN NEXT WEEK - NBC
Well that ensures no challenge to Boris likely until May.
Economic sanctions on Russia will follow and further military reinforcements sent by NATO to Poland and the Baltic States
“ Well that ensures no challenge to Boris likely until May. “
Fact 3x Winner Lady Thatcher voncked out of politics whilst leading the world into the desert war, proves you are utterly wrong in that claim.
Boris can be voncked and out of politics by this time next week, everything now aligning for that.
She was not voiced, Heseltine challenged her and a war with Iraq was a rather different scenario to a looming confrontation with Russia.
Though unless Russia invaded a NATO state I imagine economic sanctions would do for now
Well, it was a vote, and she struggled. The Khaki nature of the foreign situation didn’t mean she was safe till later, what needed to be done went ahead.
I don’t want to be rude or anything, I’m also not sure “deficit not averaging over ten, so Boris safe” spin stands up either. This I took from a PB header from Mike Smithson. It is Lady Thatchers last polls before being removed. It’s not a succession of plus ten deficits at time her vonc, also Conservative share column is high doesn’t dip below the 35. Boris isn’t breaking 35 for lot of months.
my analysis is I think now my Dad might be right, 54 Leters could happen any moment regardless of being sure of a vonking win or not.
Add to that the recollections that at PMQs, her MPs were boisterously for Lady Thatcher around the time of her vonc. Now Boris back benchers rather mooted in chamber, uncommunicative to local media when asked their thoughts.
Add to that, say he is and always has been electoral catnip might be missing that he is now viewed in different way by so many, as less trustworthy less likeable man. Even if he gets to next election it’s not the Boris of last time or his Mayor wins. his mask has slipped. As Marquee Mark said to help us - it would be a hard sell.
Add to that, in this current saga, before and post Christmas, a lull in news narrative or closing of polls proves Boris isn’t out the worst, because it doesn’t take much at all and in hours it turns into blitzkrieg on Boris again. That’s a pattern is it not?
Makes analysis that he hasn’t survived because he can’t now. All he has survived is not toppling into the Abyss yet. A week or so ago I was believing he could move away from the edge of the abyss and go on to fight the next election, but Grays interim report gave the certainty he knew he partied when he told parliament he wasn’t aware of parties, his response to Grays report that day was so abysmal, Johnson can’t move away from the edge now. He is there till he topples in.
Maybe this week. I’ve got a feeling it is reached in recess, goes ahead week after, he doesn’t even get another PMQ.
You can bet against MoonRabbit’s feelings on these things if you like 😈
The 3 polls before Heseltine challenged Thatcher on 14th November 1990 had Labour 21%, 17% and 16% ahead of Thatcher's Tories, the Tory voteshare was 30 to 33%.
In the event of an all out nuclear strike your best bet is to be as close to the point of impact as possible. The last thing you want to do is survive the initial blast.
"Put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye."
US BELIEVES PUTIN HAS DECIDED TO INVADE UKRAINE, EXPECT INVASION TO BEGIN NEXT WEEK - NBC
Well that ensures no challenge to Boris likely until May.
Economic sanctions on Russia will follow and further military reinforcements sent by NATO to Poland and the Baltic States
“ Well that ensures no challenge to Boris likely until May. “
Fact 3x Winner Lady Thatcher voncked out of politics whilst leading the world into the desert war, proves you are utterly wrong in that claim.
Boris can be voncked and out of politics by this time next week, everything now aligning for that.
She was not voiced, Heseltine challenged her and a war with Iraq was a rather different scenario to a looming confrontation with Russia.
Though unless Russia invaded a NATO state I imagine economic sanctions would do for now
Well, it was a vote, and she struggled. The Khaki nature of the foreign situation didn’t mean she was safe till later, what needed to be done went ahead.
I don’t want to be rude or anything, I’m also not sure “deficit not averaging over ten, so Boris safe” spin stands up either. This I took from a PB header from Mike Smithson. It is Lady Thatchers last polls before being removed. It’s not a succession of plus ten deficits at time her vonc, also Conservative share column is high doesn’t dip below the 35. Boris isn’t breaking 35 for lot of months.
my analysis is I think now my Dad might be right, 54 Leters could happen any moment regardless of being sure of a vonking win or not.
Add to that the recollections that at PMQs, her MPs were boisterously for Lady Thatcher around the time of her vonc. Now Boris back benchers rather mooted in chamber, uncommunicative to local media when asked their thoughts.
Add to that, say he is and always has been electoral catnip might be missing that he is now viewed in different way by so many, as less trustworthy less likeable man. Even if he gets to next election it’s not the Boris of last time or his Mayor wins. his mask has slipped. As Marquee Mark said to help us - it would be a hard sell.
Add to that, in this current saga, before and post Christmas, a lull in news narrative or closing of polls proves Boris isn’t out the worst, because it doesn’t take much at all and in hours it turns into blitzkrieg on Boris again. That’s a pattern is it not?
Makes analysis that he hasn’t survived because he can’t now. All he has survived is not toppling into the Abyss yet. A week or so ago I was believing he could move away from the edge of the abyss and go on to fight the next election, but Grays interim report gave the certainty he knew he partied when he told parliament he wasn’t aware of parties, his response to Grays report that day was so abysmal, Johnson can’t move away from the edge now. He is there till he topples in.
Maybe this week. I’ve got a feeling it is reached in recess, goes ahead week after, he doesn’t even get another PMQ.
You can bet against MoonRabbit’s feelings on these things if you like 😈
The 3 polls before Heseltine challenged Thatcher on 14th November 1990 had Labour 21%, 17% and 16% ahead of Thatcher's Tories, the Tory voteshare was 30 to 33%.
The British nuclear arsenal alone should be enough to wipe out Moscow and all Russian cities with populations over a million in response with Trident nuclear missiles if that ever occurred
He sounds a bit of a dick, but if there genuinely was a spare seat, and the nanny had been originally booked in business class, I think the crew stuffed up, got into a pickle and didn’t want to back down. I have a tiny bit of sympathy for him. It’s tiny, but just a smidge, as that would have riled me too. I just wouldn’t have caused enough of a scene to get thrown of the plane.
In the event of an all out nuclear strike your best bet is to be as close to the point of impact as possible. The last thing you want to do is survive the initial blast.
Actually you mean the last thing you want to do is to die in the initial blast.
🚨 Excl: A No10 spokesman confirms the prime minister has tonight received a questionnaire from the Metropolitan Police and will respond as required.
'Respond as required' is an interesting phrase. Is he 'required' to respond at all?
You do wonder at all of this. Effectively it’s like the recipients are being asked to admit to doing stuff that will then get them fines/police cautions etc or worse. What is their legal position? Can they answer that they considered themselves to be at work the whole time as no 10 was their workplace? It’s not exactly like the speeding ticket with your car and you in the driving seat. What evidence do the police have?
"The Pentagon on Friday ordered 3,000 additional troops to Poland, bringing to 5,000 the total number of reinforcements sent to Europe in the past two weeks."
In the event of an all out nuclear strike your best bet is to be as close to the point of impact as possible. The last thing you want to do is survive the initial blast.
Yes, had that thought as I said bugger. Am within a mile of the centre of town. But still, bugger.
I had really hoped that with 1989 all this kind of apocalyptic nonsense would be over for good.
I'm not sure in my last terrified minutes of life here in east London I would draw any comfort from the knowledge the citizens of Irkutsk or Rostov were going to join me in the next life and large parts of human civilisation would be lost forever.
My fear is weak leaders like Johnson and Biden will lead us into a conflict rather than do what needs to be done to negotiate a deal with Putin who isn't Peter the Great. My hope is behind the scenes the right people are working hard to de-escalate all this and coming up with a deal, most of which will remain hidden from public view, but will allow everyone to save face.
As the Met said yesterday that these questionnaires are equivalent to an interview under caution, Boris Johnson takes the dubious honour of being the first PM to be cautioned by police in office. https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1492258499748941829
As the Met said yesterday that these questionnaires are equivalent to an interview under caution, Boris Johnson takes the dubious honour of being the first PM to be cautioned by police in office. https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1492258499748941829
They said they are 'equivalent' to an interview under caution, but the Met clearly doesn't know a lot of things, so does anyone know if that is true or just bullshit?
great work tory mps leaving this crippled joke of a pm spending next 7 days bunkered down with lawyers trying to remember all his different lies while another major global crisis unfolds https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1492259062116925441
As the Met said yesterday that these questionnaires are equivalent to an interview under caution, Boris Johnson takes the dubious honour of being the first PM to be cautioned by police in office. https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1492258499748941829
They said they are 'equivalent' to an interview under caution, but the Met clearly doesn't know a lot of things, so does anyone know if that is true or just bullshit?
Why the actual eff are they not just going in for the day and doing some interviews?
The need to tell the truth in that police questionnaire is very strong. Remember Chris Huhne went to jail over speeding points - prosecuted when a certain Keir Starmer was DPP. https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1492260068091469828
great work tory mps leaving this crippled joke of a pm spending next 7 days bunkered down with lawyers trying to remember all his different lies while another major global crisis unfolds https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1492259062116925441
But surely given what Dom has told us about wonky Johnson, it is better for world peace that he is bogged down with lawyers, leaving the diplomacy and war planning to the likes of serious people like Wallace?
He sounds a bit of a dick, but if there genuinely was a spare seat, and the nanny had been originally booked in business class, I think the crew stuffed up, got into a pickle and didn’t want to back down. I have a tiny bit of sympathy for him. It’s tiny, but just a smidge, as that would have riled me too. I just wouldn’t have caused enough of a scene to get thrown of the plane.
I agree. I find for the barrister with costs......next defendant .................Johnson
But surely given what Dom has told us about wonky Johnson, it is better for world peace that he is bogged down with lawyers, leaving the diplomacy and war planning to the likes of serious people like Wallace?
Only BoZo can issue the order, and we know if it comes to it he will faff about until the decision makes itself, probably with a massive body count
I check back in after watching another excellent episode of 'dix pour cent' and all the talk is of nuclear war.
have I missed something?
Didn’t you hear the sirens?
When I was a kid in the late 1960s I am sure we had a siren at the top of the road that was tested periodically. Have I imagined that?
Where I grew up the "all clear" (a single monotone) was often heard summoning reserve firefighters. After the mid-60s they were probably issued with pagers. But I never heard the wailing high-low warning of an impending air raid (except in old movies).
If he could grab a cheeky extra little sliver of Ukraine whilst securing Donbass, which area would Putin choose?
Mariupol and a land corridor to Crimea
More or less this:
Though why then are troops in Belarus and Voronezh?
Maybe more likely to take everything East of the Dneiper.
So the Ukrainians and the West don't know where they are going to attack. If you concentrate all your forces in one place for your attack then you are allowing your enemy to prepare their defences accordingly. Far better to make it seem like there are multiple possible avenues of attack so the defenders have to split their forces.
The Ukrainian military is not likely to be a walkover and since Russia does have large numbers of troops and equipment available then it is a good use of them to keep the Ukrainians guessing.
In the event of an all out nuclear strike your best bet is to be as close to the point of impact as possible. The last thing you want to do is survive the initial blast.
Yes, had that thought as I said bugger. Am within a mile of the centre of town. But still, bugger.
I had really hoped that with 1989 all this kind of apocalyptic nonsense would be over for good.
I'm not sure in my last terrified minutes of life here in east London I would draw any comfort from the knowledge the citizens of Irkutsk or Rostov were going to join me in the next life and large parts of human civilisation would be lost forever.
My fear is weak leaders like Johnson and Biden will lead us into a conflict rather than do what needs to be done to negotiate a deal with Putin who isn't Peter the Great. My hope is behind the scenes the right people are working hard to de-escalate all this and coming up with a deal, most of which will remain hidden from public view, but will allow everyone to save face.
The only way of de-escalating the situation is by sending troops in to the Ukraine to help defend its eastern borders. Anything else is appeasement, not de-escalation.
In the event of an all out nuclear strike your best bet is to be as close to the point of impact as possible. The last thing you want to do is survive the initial blast.
Yes, had that thought as I said bugger. Am within a mile of the centre of town. But still, bugger.
I had really hoped that with 1989 all this kind of apocalyptic nonsense would be over for good.
I'm not sure in my last terrified minutes of life here in east London I would draw any comfort from the knowledge the citizens of Irkutsk or Rostov were going to join me in the next life and large parts of human civilisation would be lost forever.
My fear is weak leaders like Johnson and Biden will lead us into a conflict rather than do what needs to be done to negotiate a deal with Putin who isn't Peter the Great. My hope is behind the scenes the right people are working hard to de-escalate all this and coming up with a deal, most of which will remain hidden from public view, but will allow everyone to save face.
Much as you - and others on here - slag me off for saying I preferred Trump over Biden, this is exactly the reason why I would stand by my choice. There is a reason Putin didn’t try any sh1t when Trump was President and it wasn’t because he was Kompromat. It was because Putin was wary of provoking someone like Trump. Biden is weak but my overriding fear is that, in order to give off the impression of strength, Biden tries too hard and pushes the world into a catastrophe.
In the event of an all out nuclear strike your best bet is to be as close to the point of impact as possible. The last thing you want to do is survive the initial blast.
Yes, had that thought as I said bugger. Am within a mile of the centre of town. But still, bugger.
I had really hoped that with 1989 all this kind of apocalyptic nonsense would be over for good.
I'm not sure in my last terrified minutes of life here in east London I would draw any comfort from the knowledge the citizens of Irkutsk or Rostov were going to join me in the next life and large parts of human civilisation would be lost forever.
My fear is weak leaders like Johnson and Biden will lead us into a conflict rather than do what needs to be done to negotiate a deal with Putin who isn't Peter the Great. My hope is behind the scenes the right people are working hard to de-escalate all this and coming up with a deal, most of which will remain hidden from public view, but will allow everyone to save face.
Much as you - and others on here - slag me off for saying I preferred Trump over Biden, this is exactly the reason why I would stand by my choice. There is a reason Putin didn’t try any sh1t when Trump was President and it wasn’t because he was Kompromat. It was because Putin was wary of provoking someone like Trump. Biden is weak but my overriding fear is that, in order to give off the impression of strength, Biden tries too hard and pushes the world into a catastrophe.
And here we see the useful idiots on left and right pushing Russian talking points in order to sell out the Ukrainians. The fact that you leap to blame Biden and the West over Russia invading a sovereign, democratizing country just shows you are either an idiot or completely intellectually dishonest.
US BELIEVES PUTIN HAS DECIDED TO INVADE UKRAINE, EXPECT INVASION TO BEGIN NEXT WEEK - NBC
Well that ensures no challenge to Boris likely until May.
Economic sanctions on Russia will follow and further military reinforcements sent by NATO to Poland and the Baltic States
“ Well that ensures no challenge to Boris likely until May. “
Fact 3x Winner Lady Thatcher voncked out of politics whilst leading the world into the desert war, proves you are utterly wrong in that claim.
Boris can be voncked and out of politics by this time next week, everything now aligning for that.
She was not voiced, Heseltine challenged her and a war with Iraq was a rather different scenario to a looming confrontation with Russia.
Though unless Russia invaded a NATO state I imagine economic sanctions would do for now
Well, it was a vote, and she struggled. The Khaki nature of the foreign situation didn’t mean she was safe till later, what needed to be done went ahead.
I don’t want to be rude or anything, I’m also not sure “deficit not averaging over ten, so Boris safe” spin stands up either. This I took from a PB header from Mike Smithson. It is Lady Thatchers last polls before being removed. It’s not a succession of plus ten deficits at time her vonc, also Conservative share column is high doesn’t dip below the 35. Boris isn’t breaking 35 for lot of months.
my analysis is I think now my Dad might be right, 54 Leters could happen any moment regardless of being sure of a vonking win or not.
Add to that the recollections that at PMQs, her MPs were boisterously for Lady Thatcher around the time of her vonc. Now Boris back benchers rather mooted in chamber, uncommunicative to local media when asked their thoughts.
Add to that, say he is and always has been electoral catnip might be missing that he is now viewed in different way by so many, as less trustworthy less likeable man. Even if he gets to next election it’s not the Boris of last time or his Mayor wins. his mask has slipped. As Marquee Mark said to help us - it would be a hard sell.
Add to that, in this current saga, before and post Christmas, a lull in news narrative or closing of polls proves Boris isn’t out the worst, because it doesn’t take much at all and in hours it turns into blitzkrieg on Boris again. That’s a pattern is it not?
Makes analysis that he hasn’t survived because he can’t now. All he has survived is not toppling into the Abyss yet. A week or so ago I was believing he could move away from the edge of the abyss and go on to fight the next election, but Grays interim report gave the certainty he knew he partied when he told parliament he wasn’t aware of parties, his response to Grays report that day was so abysmal, Johnson can’t move away from the edge now. He is there till he topples in.
Maybe this week. I’ve got a feeling it is reached in recess, goes ahead week after, he doesn’t even get another PMQ.
You can bet against MoonRabbit’s feelings on these things if you like 😈
The 3 polls before Heseltine challenged Thatcher on 14th November 1990 had Labour 21%, 17% and 16% ahead of Thatcher's Tories, the Tory voteshare was 30 to 33%.
He sounds a bit of a dick, but if there genuinely was a spare seat, and the nanny had been originally booked in business class, I think the crew stuffed up, got into a pickle and didn’t want to back down. I have a tiny bit of sympathy for him. It’s tiny, but just a smidge, as that would have riled me too. I just wouldn’t have caused enough of a scene to get thrown of the plane.
Increasingly, I find a lot of BA staff are rude. From what we’ve been told by one crew member, a lot of BA cabin crew are unhappy because they’ve been shifted to economy from business as the long haul flights have not been operated. Apparently, this has caused a lot of tension.
In the event of an all out nuclear strike your best bet is to be as close to the point of impact as possible. The last thing you want to do is survive the initial blast.
Yes, had that thought as I said bugger. Am within a mile of the centre of town. But still, bugger.
I had really hoped that with 1989 all this kind of apocalyptic nonsense would be over for good.
I'm not sure in my last terrified minutes of life here in east London I would draw any comfort from the knowledge the citizens of Irkutsk or Rostov were going to join me in the next life and large parts of human civilisation would be lost forever.
My fear is weak leaders like Johnson and Biden will lead us into a conflict rather than do what needs to be done to negotiate a deal with Putin who isn't Peter the Great. My hope is behind the scenes the right people are working hard to de-escalate all this and coming up with a deal, most of which will remain hidden from public view, but will allow everyone to save face.
Much as you - and others on here - slag me off for saying I preferred Trump over Biden, this is exactly the reason why I would stand by my choice. There is a reason Putin didn’t try any sh1t when Trump was President and it wasn’t because he was Kompromat. It was because Putin was wary of provoking someone like Trump. Biden is weak but my overriding fear is that, in order to give off the impression of strength, Biden tries too hard and pushes the world into a catastrophe.
And here we see the useful idiots on left and right pushing Russian talking points in order to sell out the Ukrainians. The fact that you leap to blame Biden and the West over Russia invading a sovereign, democratizing country just shows you are either an idiot or completely intellectually dishonest.
Pushing Russian talking points, how is that? Maybe you ought to engage your brain before you speak.
Trump didn’t sell out Ukraine because Russia didn’t dare try anything on. Putin was aware that if he fucked with Ukraine, Trump might be up for anything. Hence he didn’t do anything.
Biden has sold out Ukraine. He’s made it perfectly clear Ukraine is not getting any US help (which, TBF, is a question in itself) and held talks directly with Russia about Ukraine without the participation of the latter.
There is an idiot in this discussion and - I’ll make it plain because I suspect you are too thick to get irony - it’s you.
Comments
This makes Sunday the first day of the week. If you doubt it read the gospel of John 20. v 1 which says it explicitly. The resurrection was said to have occurred then, which is why Christians keep holy the 1st, not the 7th day.
Pragmatists make Monday the first day of the week because the ancient division means you turn over your diary page in the middle of the weekend which is irrational to the middle class 9-5 Monday-Friday people who make rules for the rest of us.
I suspect there is a deal to be done and as we saw over the negotiations to leave the EU, the public posturing and point-scoring and sabre rattling masks the proper serious work being done to de-escalate all this. There will be concessions to Putin and we must recognise his "face" needs to be saved as much as anyone's from all this.
He gets a way out, a few calls are made, a few offers are made behind the scenes and it's a small prize for us all to sleep safely in our beds (or someone else's I don't judge).
Scotland is Catalonia or Quebec, it is not the Ukraine which left the USSR in 1990
If there is war in Ukr, might Ben Wallace's leadership chances rise? He will be on telly a lot.
He wins hypothetical run offs against Le Pen (55-45), Pecresse (56-44) and Zemmour (61-39).
The scrap to be Macron's second round victim continues with Le Pen on 17% two points ahead of Zemmour and Pecresse who are tied on 15% and well ahead of Melanchon on 10.5%. Macron has a solid lead with 25.5% of the vote in the first round of voting which is only a couple of months away.
As Russia goes into the Ukraine Meat Grinder (dreadful phrase but one used on PB) committing themselves being bogged down in there - could we not blind side them (rugby tactics) and free the Belarusians from their mad and undemocratic dictator?
How quick and effectively can NATO take Belarus and install decent government in the capital whilst they organise proper fair elections this time to cement that position? I’m not the war expert like many here are, but looking at the map, Russia may be advancing out of Belarus facing the wrong way whilst we zoom in the right way
Easy?
Yours - Jade Bonapartey the First
Are we being fair with the flak Truss taking. In a bottle half full sense, I think Liz Truss would make a fine Travel Agent, because she knows where quite a lot of these funny far away foreign place names actually are.
Do like me you think we are actually seeing the worst not best of these cabinet personalities, as they preen and jockey into position for the coming leadership election?
Except Rishi Sunak. I always felt he was the most decent and honest of the Boris Cabinet of Sycophants - how uncomfortable and uncommitted Sunak looks when saying as quickly as possible “Prime Minister Boris Johnson has my full support” absolutely proves it 🙂
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1492233729749749766
1) No such thing as an easy war
2) NATO does not exist to invade countries posing no direct threat to NATO territory
3) The appetite for war in distant parts of which we know little in the west in below zero.
4) A similar number, Zero, of mothers in the west are willing to see their children come home in body bags for a fight in which we are under no threat of direct invasion
5) The last UK leader who thought this sort of thing was a decent wheeze was Cameron, who tried to persuade us that there were moderate liberal minded tolerant Syrians who we could fight for and with. Even the House of Commons could spot the flaw.
Though why then are troops in Belarus and Voronezh?
Maybe more likely to take everything East of the Dneiper.
Le Pen just ahead of Pecresse in round 1 17% to 16% for the runoff with Macron spot with Zemmour trailing on 14%
https://www.opinion-way.com/fr/barometre-opinionway-kea-partners-election-presidentielle-2022?fbclid=IwAR0sfZOXgwBfBEhbFNBN7omomSie9oeYux-7P5spGAMIcCc9Rx3Try2dgMk?s=09?s=09?utm_source=pocket_mylist?s=09?s=09?utm_source=pocket_mylist?s=09?s=09?s=09?s=09?utm_source=pocket_mylist?s=09?s=09?s=09?s=09?fbclid=IwAR0bwfll6ZDbjXqZUXAwRj_6PtpWASUaFhdv4fiZncmK44hrUz06q8VEEhE?s=09?s=09?s=09
Whose the nearest thing to Libertarian Pirate still posting?
The closest thing to St Bart’s positions was not Bojoism but ReformUK. Do we have have ReformUK supporters posting?
Don't all rush for the Western Isles at once..
I'm pretty sure the people complaining Boris is playing it up to shore up his own position would be making the same complaint if he took Putin's side.
WTF did we do to deserve these cretins?
https://www.quora.com/Does-the-UK-have-enough-nuclear-capability-to-wipe-out-Russia-alone
Fact 3x Winner Lady Thatcher voncked out of politics whilst leading the world into the desert war, proves you are utterly wrong in that claim.
Boris can be voncked and out of politics by this time next week, everything now aligning for that.
Though unless Russia invaded a NATO state I imagine economic sanctions would do for now
I don’t want to be rude or anything, I’m also not sure “deficit not averaging over ten, so Boris safe” spin stands up either. This I took from a PB header from Mike Smithson. It is Lady Thatchers last polls before being removed. It’s not a succession of plus ten deficits at time her vonc, also Conservative share column is high doesn’t dip below the 35. Boris isn’t breaking 35 for lot of months.
my analysis is I think now my Dad might be right, 54 Leters could happen any moment regardless of being sure of a vonking win or not.
Add to that the recollections that at PMQs, her MPs were boisterously for Lady Thatcher around the time of her vonc. Now Boris back benchers rather mooted in chamber, uncommunicative to local media when asked their thoughts.
Add to that, say he is and always has been electoral catnip might be missing that he is now viewed in different way by so many, as less trustworthy less likeable man. Even if he gets to next election it’s not the Boris of last time or his Mayor wins. his mask has slipped. As Marquee Mark said to help us - it would be a hard sell.
Add to that, in this current saga, before and post Christmas, a lull in news narrative or closing of polls proves Boris isn’t out the worst, because it doesn’t take much at all and in hours it turns into blitzkrieg on Boris again. That’s a pattern is it not?
Makes analysis that he hasn’t survived because he can’t now. All he has survived is not toppling into the Abyss yet. A week or so ago I was believing he could move away from the edge of the abyss and go on to fight the next election, but Grays interim report gave the certainty he knew he partied when he told parliament he wasn’t aware of parties, his response to Grays report that day was so abysmal, Johnson can’t move away from the edge now. He is there till he topples in.
Maybe this week. I’ve got a feeling it is reached in recess, goes ahead week after, he doesn’t even get another PMQ.
You can bet against MoonRabbit’s feelings on these things if you like 😈
have I missed something?
Entitlement Syndrome strikes again.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10503589/High-flying-barrister-41-family-removed-BA-flight-armed-cops.html
NY Times blog
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1992_United_Kingdom_general_election
I'm not sure in my last terrified minutes of life here in east London I would draw any comfort from the knowledge the citizens of Irkutsk or Rostov were going to join me in the next life and large parts of human civilisation would be lost forever.
My fear is weak leaders like Johnson and Biden will lead us into a conflict rather than do what needs to be done to negotiate a deal with Putin who isn't Peter the Great. My hope is behind the scenes the right people are working hard to de-escalate all this and coming up with a deal, most of which will remain hidden from public view, but will allow everyone to save face.
https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1492258499748941829
https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1492259062116925441
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1492260068091469828
The Ukrainian military is not likely to be a walkover and since Russia does have large numbers of troops and equipment available then it is a good use of them to keep the Ukrainians guessing.
"Is dix poured over cent?"
Trump didn’t sell out Ukraine because Russia didn’t dare try anything on. Putin was aware that if he fucked with Ukraine, Trump might be up for anything. Hence he didn’t do anything.
Biden has sold out Ukraine. He’s made it perfectly clear Ukraine is not getting any US help (which, TBF, is a question in itself) and held talks directly with Russia about Ukraine without the participation of the latter.
There is an idiot in this discussion and - I’ll make it plain because I suspect you are too thick to get irony - it’s you.