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A Very Dark Horse for Johnson’s successor – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited February 2022 in General
imageA Very Dark Horse for Johnson’s successor – politicalbetting.com

Waiting for a Tory VoNC is like waiting for bloody Godot. On and on it goes. Still, on the (questionable) assumption that there will be a vacancy before the days get shorter, it might be worth considering one MP who has not yet figured in any speculation, possibly because he has never expressed any public interest in the role. Nor has anyone else suggested him.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • The fact that he was widely regarded as being successful as NI Sec is no mean achievement
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    2nd (1st really)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Not a bloody chance.
    He appears to be sensible and reasonably competent.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    'We will probably get a Conservative leadership election within the next few months. Indeed, it could be triggered within hours'

    The race is on to succeed Boris Johnson – but which Tory hopeful can go the distance?

    @MichaelLCrick @HCH_Hill @shadsy https://www.mailplus.co.uk/tv/the-michael-crick-report/153024/michael-crick-who-will-replace-boris-johnson-as-new-conservative-leader-and-prime-minister?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=organic_twitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1644410328-2
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    5th rate challenger.
  • He's another one who follows me on Twitter.

    That's the sign of excellent judgment.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    🚨NEW PMQs focus group data🚨

    Once again we spoke to 2019 Con voters who are now undecided.

    ❓Impact of the Savile smear?
    ❓Do voters trust the energy bill 'loan'?
    ❓Is Starmer pulling in undecided voters?
    ❓Is Labour lacking in substance?

    🧵THREAD by @ChrisHopkins92 https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1491434821931122690
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited February 2022
    My eyebrows are currently in Scotland.

    I fear the trustees are going to have to walk.

    Capt Sir Tom Moore: Watchdog to review charity's accounts


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    To play Devil’s advocate, the Chief Whip who oversaw 27 defections from his party for political reasons?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_British_politicians_who_have_changed_party_affiliation
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Many possible long-shots.

    I've had a tiny bet (less than a fiver) on Steve Barclay for example. Ben Wallace has a better chance - a tenner or so on him, but his price has now rather corrected.

    I generally lay these markets.

    I've never heard of Julian Smith, although admittedly I was only very slightly aware of the existence of Cameron before he became leader. A similar, and in my view, total longshot is Alex Chalk.

    It's actually quite interesting that I can't stump up so many likely fresh faces in a similar vein - the government has gone stale.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited February 2022
    Highly unlikely, every new PM who has come in midterm since WW2 has held one of the Great Offices of State in Cabinet ie Chancellor, Home Secretary or Foreign Secretary. I therefore cannot see beyond Sunak, Truss or Patel (or indeed Raab or Hunt who have been Foreign Secretary in the past or Javid as a former Chancellor) replacing Boris if he goes before the next general election.

    Harper is therefore a very dark horse indeed

  • Sandpit said:

    To play Devil’s advocate, the Chief Whip who oversaw 27 defections from his party for political reasons?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_British_politicians_who_have_changed_party_affiliation

    That's fake news, he only oversaw 4.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    .
    Sandpit said:

    To play Devil’s advocate, the Chief Whip who oversaw 27 defections from his party for political reasons?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_British_politicians_who_have_changed_party_affiliation

    Weren't they all wrong 'uns who disrespected Bozza and Brexit?
  • The problem for Boris Johnson is he has two Chief Whips gunning for him.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    On topic - unlikely, too junior.

    Cases by specimen data

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled 100k

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    UK R

    image
  • I really do not see Julian Smith in the frame to be honest

    However, a bit of better news for no 10 re bullying by party whips

    'The Met concluded that, at the current time, there is no evidence of any criminal offence.

    As a result no further action will be taken by the MPS'
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    The problem for Boris Johnson is he has two Chief Whips gunning for him.

    I presume you count Williamson in those two. Boris gave him more than enough rope, and I doubt there's bad blood.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Case summary

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    My eyebrows are currently in Scotland.

    I fear the trustees are going to have to walk.

    Capt Sir Tom Moore: Watchdog to review charity's accounts


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650

    It’s the new Kids’ Company!

    More seriously, the case against the trustees will rest on motivation and advice received, to people who may or may not have courted publicity.

    Presumably the charity quickly became the full-time job of a few people who were otherwise unemployed by the pandemic (with all the furlough and recovery schemes that briefly existed) , so the case will rest on where one draws the line at expenses and salaries.

    Can I bill my own charity £100 a day for my time? How’s about £300, if that’s what I was earning before I was made redundant? How’s about £500, if that’s what charities making a million a week in normal times are paying their CEOs?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Hospitals

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    image
    image
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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Deaths

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    image
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    The problem for Boris Johnson is he has two Chief Whips gunning for him.

    Chiefs Whip - same as Attorneys General and Grands Prix.
  • Sandpit said:

    My eyebrows are currently in Scotland.

    I fear the trustees are going to have to walk.

    Capt Sir Tom Moore: Watchdog to review charity's accounts


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650

    It’s the new Kids’ Company!

    More seriously, the case against the trustees will rest on motivation and advice received, to people who may or may not have courted publicity.

    Presumably the charity quickly became the full-time job of a few people who were otherwise unemployed by the pandemic (with all the furlough and recovery schemes that briefly existed) , so the case will rest on where one draws the line at expenses and salaries.

    Can I bill my own charity £100 a day for my time? How’s about £300, if that’s what I was earning before I was made redundant? How’s about £500, if that’s what charities making a million a week in normal times are paying their CEOs?
    I am sympathetic to some charities, I know a few trustees and one of the larger, unexpected, and ongoing costs is setting up a secure website that can process donations and is safe from hacking.

    But this seems to be taking the piss.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited February 2022
    Assuming the next Conservative leadership contest is whilst the party is in office, I just think it's fantasy to talk about contenders whose cabinet experience has been brief and junior.

    Realistically, in choosing a PM as opposed to a party leader who can grow into it, MPs just aren't going to look past the genuinely known quantities - essentially existing senior cabinet members plus Hunt on the outside.

    There could be trading value in some of these fringe figures - if they actually enter the contest to strengthen their position to get into the next cabinet, they will shorten. But they just won't be there come the members' vote.

    Also, on Cyclefree's point about young cardinals/olds popes... I think you'll find Smith is 50, which would be pretty much lower mid-table in age for an incoming PM (older than Blair and Cameron, and a shade older than Major, but quite a bit younger than Johnson, Brown, or May). There's no comparison with Howard, who was 62 on becoming leader and a few days short of 65 by the 2005 election. It was fair to assume, even if he'd won in 2005, he'd have retired before all that long. That's just not true for a 50 year old - Smith would want to stay as long as people would have him.
  • Omnium said:

    The problem for Boris Johnson is he has two Chief Whips gunning for him.

    I presume you count Williamson in those two. Boris gave him more than enough rope, and I doubt there's bad blood.
    Nope. Harper and Smith.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Age related data

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    image
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    edited February 2022
    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo
  • For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Was Michael Masi there supporting Red Bull?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    COVID summary

    - Cases are going down rapidly. R is below 1. But Scotland seems to be a bit of an outlier in this... R above 1?
    - Admissions down. R seems stable below 1
    - MV beds down
    - In hospital down
    - Deaths down. The downward trend seems to be accelerating.

    image
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Of course it was. No one is going to show off the actual car until the second test.
  • Sandpit said:


    It’s the new Kids’ Company!

    More seriously, the case against the trustees will rest on motivation and advice received, to people who may or may not have courted publicity.

    Presumably the charity quickly became the full-time job of a few people who were otherwise unemployed by the pandemic (with all the furlough and recovery schemes that briefly existed) , so the case will rest on where one draws the line at expenses and salaries.

    Can I bill my own charity £100 a day for my time? How’s about £300, if that’s what I was earning before I was made redundant? How’s about £500, if that’s what charities making a million a week in normal times are paying their CEOs?

    This has much more emotional kick than Kids' Company, though. The money was donated directly by huge numbers of ordinary people in a spirit of national solidarity and a vast amount of publicity.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    The problem for Boris Johnson is he has two Chief Whips gunning for him.

    I presume you count Williamson in those two. Boris gave him more than enough rope, and I doubt there's bad blood.
    Nope. Harper and Smith.
    Tell the tale of the future then. What could it be?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Sandpit said:

    My eyebrows are currently in Scotland.

    I fear the trustees are going to have to walk.

    Capt Sir Tom Moore: Watchdog to review charity's accounts


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650

    It’s the new Kids’ Company!

    More seriously, the case against the trustees will rest on motivation and advice received, to people who may or may not have courted publicity.

    Presumably the charity quickly became the full-time job of a few people who were otherwise unemployed by the pandemic (with all the furlough and recovery schemes that briefly existed) , so the case will rest on where one draws the line at expenses and salaries.

    Can I bill my own charity £100 a day for my time? How’s about £300, if that’s what I was earning before I was made redundant? How’s about £500, if that’s what charities making a million a week in normal times are paying their CEOs?
    Being careful to cross legal lines and all....

    There is an interesting history to the following kind of structure -

    A company or charity that seems to make little money. Or even a loss. But contracts chunks of work to other companies (often based in low/no tax domain). Those companies seem to do alright. And how.

    A bid by a bearded ex-record company bloke to run the National Lottery was setup to use this structure, IIRC.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Was Michael Masi there supporting Red Bull?
    His face is on the engine cover powering them to glory
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Sandpit said:

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Of course it was. No one is going to show off the actual car until the second test.
    Of course - but still a bit sad..
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Omnium said:

    The problem for Boris Johnson is he has two Chief Whips gunning for him.

    I presume you count Williamson in those two. Boris gave him more than enough rope, and I doubt there's bad blood.
    Nope. Harper and Smith.
    Hasn't Andrew Mitchell declared against Boris too? He was, briefly, chief whip in 2012 (before being taken out by Plebgate).
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Was Michael Masi there supporting Red Bull?
    Nope, he's too busy living in your head rent-free...

    (I hate that expression. I hate more that it's so appropriate here that I feel forced to use it...)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Sandpit said:

    My eyebrows are currently in Scotland.

    I fear the trustees are going to have to walk.

    Capt Sir Tom Moore: Watchdog to review charity's accounts


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650

    It’s the new Kids’ Company!

    More seriously, the case against the trustees will rest on motivation and advice received, to people who may or may not have courted publicity.

    Presumably the charity quickly became the full-time job of a few people who were otherwise unemployed by the pandemic (with all the furlough and recovery schemes that briefly existed) , so the case will rest on where one draws the line at expenses and salaries.

    Can I bill my own charity £100 a day for my time? How’s about £300, if that’s what I was earning before I was made redundant? How’s about £500, if that’s what charities making a million a week in normal times are paying their CEOs?
    Being careful to cross legal lines and all....

    There is an interesting history to the following kind of structure -

    A company or charity that seems to make little money. Or even a loss. But contracts chunks of work to other companies (often based in low/no tax domain). Those companies seem to do alright. And how.

    A bid by a bearded ex-record company bloke to run the National Lottery was setup to use this structure, IIRC.
    In my view it's quite astonishing that Batmanwoman didn't go to jail over Kids' Company.
  • Omnium said:

    The problem for Boris Johnson is he has two Chief Whips gunning for him.

    I presume you count Williamson in those two. Boris gave him more than enough rope, and I doubt there's bad blood.
    Nope. Harper and Smith.
    Hasn't Andrew Mitchell declared against Boris too? He was, briefly, chief whip in 2012 (before being taken out by Plebgate).
    He has, and lest we forget, a former chief whip torpedoed Boris Johnson's leadership ambitions in 2016.
  • Applicant said:

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Was Michael Masi there supporting Red Bull?
    Nope, he's too busy living in your head rent-free...

    (I hate that expression. I hate more that it's so appropriate here that I feel forced to use it...)
    I get angry when injustices take place.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Applicant said:

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Was Michael Masi there supporting Red Bull?
    Nope, he's too busy living in your head rent-free...

    (I hate that expression. I hate more that it's so appropriate here that I feel forced to use it...)
    I get angry when injustices take place.
    (A post that cannot possibly have a response!)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    My eyebrows are currently in Scotland.

    I fear the trustees are going to have to walk.

    Capt Sir Tom Moore: Watchdog to review charity's accounts


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650

    It’s the new Kids’ Company!

    More seriously, the case against the trustees will rest on motivation and advice received, to people who may or may not have courted publicity.

    Presumably the charity quickly became the full-time job of a few people who were otherwise unemployed by the pandemic (with all the furlough and recovery schemes that briefly existed) , so the case will rest on where one draws the line at expenses and salaries.

    Can I bill my own charity £100 a day for my time? How’s about £300, if that’s what I was earning before I was made redundant? How’s about £500, if that’s what charities making a million a week in normal times are paying their CEOs?
    Being careful to cross legal lines and all....

    There is an interesting history to the following kind of structure -

    A company or charity that seems to make little money. Or even a loss. But contracts chunks of work to other companies (often based in low/no tax domain). Those companies seem to do alright. And how.

    A bid by a bearded ex-record company bloke to run the National Lottery was setup to use this structure, IIRC.
    In my view it's quite astonishing that Batmanwoman didn't go to jail over Kids' Company.
    She was a member of the New Upper 10,000 - or at least so involved with numerous members of the 10K that a problem for her would be a problem for them.

    No, this is not a childish conspiracy theory - have you not noticed that at a certain level in public life, abject failure of the kind that would send you and I to the ranks of the unemployable, is merely a change of job? A golden goodbye, quite often, a golden hello and a salary raise.

    Cressida Dick. Joyce Thacker etc etc
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    COVID summary

    - Cases are going down rapidly. R is below 1. But Scotland seems to be a bit of an outlier in this... R above 1?
    - Admissions down. R seems stable below 1
    - MV beds down
    - In hospital down
    - Deaths down. The downward trend seems to be accelerating.

    image

    I thought we'd all be dead from Omicron 2 by now.

    The split in peoples mindset is still huge. I attended a seminar this afternoon. A colleague loudly proclaimed to me and my other colleagues that she had gone to another building to use the toilet 'because there were 20 students not wearing masks in the closer one'. So what? She's had three vaccine shots, almost certainly had it (two school age kids). I really think we are going to have yet another kind of split in the nation to add to remain vs leave, tory scum vs labour scum. radiohead vs not radiohead and pineapple on pizza...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    COVID summary

    - Cases are going down rapidly. R is below 1. But Scotland seems to be a bit of an outlier in this... R above 1?
    - Admissions down. R seems stable below 1
    - MV beds down
    - In hospital down
    - Deaths down. The downward trend seems to be accelerating.

    image

    I thought we'd all be dead from Omicron 2 by now.

    The split in peoples mindset is still huge. I attended a seminar this afternoon. A colleague loudly proclaimed to me and my other colleagues that she had gone to another building to use the toilet 'because there were 20 students not wearing masks in the closer one'. So what? She's had three vaccine shots, almost certainly had it (two school age kids). I really think we are going to have yet another kind of split in the nation to add to remain vs leave, tory scum vs labour scum. radiohead vs not radiohead and pineapple on pizza...
    What, marmite?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    My eyebrows are currently in Scotland.

    I fear the trustees are going to have to walk.

    Capt Sir Tom Moore: Watchdog to review charity's accounts


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650

    It’s the new Kids’ Company!

    More seriously, the case against the trustees will rest on motivation and advice received, to people who may or may not have courted publicity.

    Presumably the charity quickly became the full-time job of a few people who were otherwise unemployed by the pandemic (with all the furlough and recovery schemes that briefly existed) , so the case will rest on where one draws the line at expenses and salaries.

    Can I bill my own charity £100 a day for my time? How’s about £300, if that’s what I was earning before I was made redundant? How’s about £500, if that’s what charities making a million a week in normal times are paying their CEOs?
    Being careful to cross legal lines and all....

    There is an interesting history to the following kind of structure -

    A company or charity that seems to make little money. Or even a loss. But contracts chunks of work to other companies (often based in low/no tax domain). Those companies seem to do alright. And how.

    A bid by a bearded ex-record company bloke to run the National Lottery was setup to use this structure, IIRC.
    In my view it's quite astonishing that Batmanwoman didn't go to jail over Kids' Company.
    She was a member of the New Upper 10,000 - or at least so involved with numerous members of the 10K that a problem for her would be a problem for them.

    No, this is not a childish conspiracy theory - have you not noticed that at a certain level in public life, abject failure of the kind that would send you and I to the ranks of the unemployable, is merely a change of job? A golden goodbye, quite often, a golden hello and a salary raise.

    Cressida Dick. Joyce Thacker etc etc
    "No, this is not a childish conspiracy theory"

    Quite right. It's not a conspiracy at all, but it is (corrupt - personally not sure) unfortunate, unnessaary, and lazy crap.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Applicant said:

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Was Michael Masi there supporting Red Bull?
    Nope, he's too busy living in your head rent-free...

    (I hate that expression. I hate more that it's so appropriate here that I feel forced to use it...)
    I get angry when injustices take place.
    Is that you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSL3x1rdwM4

    The clothes are bit lo-key for your style....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    COVID summary

    - Cases are going down rapidly. R is below 1. But Scotland seems to be a bit of an outlier in this... R above 1?
    - Admissions down. R seems stable below 1
    - MV beds down
    - In hospital down
    - Deaths down. The downward trend seems to be accelerating.

    image

    I thought we'd all be dead from Omicron 2 by now.

    The split in peoples mindset is still huge. I attended a seminar this afternoon. A colleague loudly proclaimed to me and my other colleagues that she had gone to another building to use the toilet 'because there were 20 students not wearing masks in the closer one'. So what? She's had three vaccine shots, almost certainly had it (two school age kids). I really think we are going to have yet another kind of split in the nation to add to remain vs leave, tory scum vs labour scum. radiohead vs not radiohead and pineapple on pizza...
    Walking around Tesco yesterday 80% in masks and sadly you look at some of these people and think they're never going to stop wearing them.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    HYUFD said:

    Highly unlikely, every new PM who has come in midterm since WW2 has held one of the Great Offices of State in Cabinet ie Chancellor, Home Secretary or Foreign Secretary. I therefore cannot see beyond Sunak, Truss or Patel (or indeed Raab or Hunt who have been Foreign Secretary in the past or Javid as a former Chancellor) replacing Boris if he goes before the next general election.

    Harper is therefore a very dark horse indeed

    Indeed. Such a dark horse that he wasn't even mentioned in the header at all.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Applicant said:

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Was Michael Masi there supporting Red Bull?
    Nope, he's too busy living in your head rent-free...

    (I hate that expression. I hate more that it's so appropriate here that I feel forced to use it...)
    Try to resist. It's worth it. I listened to a radio play today called 'Siege' which reminded me how much talent there is working for the BBC and how little there is working for the government and how ridiculous it is that the Philistines in government hold the BBC's purse strings.

    Another non sequitur
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Was Michael Masi there supporting Red Bull?
    Nope, he's too busy living in your head rent-free...

    (I hate that expression. I hate more that it's so appropriate here that I feel forced to use it...)
    I get angry when injustices take place.
    Fair enough. But you seem to be ignoring Hanlon's razor.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Omnium said:

    The problem for Boris Johnson is he has two Chief Whips gunning for him.

    I presume you count Williamson in those two. Boris gave him more than enough rope, and I doubt there's bad blood.
    Nope. Harper and Smith.
    Hasn't Andrew Mitchell declared against Boris too? He was, briefly, chief whip in 2012 (before being taken out by Plebgate).
    He has, and lest we forget, a former chief whip torpedoed Boris Johnson's leadership ambitions in 2016.
    Indeed, he did. Of the many Govt Chief Whips there have been since the beginning of the 20thC only one has become PM. Ted Heath. Knowing where the bodies are buried is seemingly just an ancillary skill for getting you to the top of the greasy pole.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    For any F1 fans on here who’ve just watched the red bull racing launch…

    What a joke. Just the new F1 show car with the red bull livery. Booo

    Was Michael Masi there supporting Red Bull?
    His face is on the engine cover powering them to glory
    That would be epic trolling by Red Bull. Every time Hamilton comes up behind Verstappen he sees Masi's face, gets mad, loses control and spins off.

    Wouldn't put it past them...

    Do we have any testing figures yet?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Assuming the next Conservative leadership contest is whilst the party is in office, I just think it's fantasy to talk about contenders whose cabinet experience has been brief and junior.

    Realistically, in choosing a PM as opposed to a party leader who can grow into it, MPs just aren't going to look past the genuinely known quantities - essentially existing senior cabinet members plus Hunt on the outside.

    There could be trading value in some of these fringe figures - if they actually enter the contest to strengthen their position to get into the next cabinet, they will shorten. But they just won't be there come the members' vote.

    Also, on Cyclefree's point about young cardinals/olds popes... I think you'll find Smith is 50, which would be pretty much lower mid-table in age for an incoming PM (older than Blair and Cameron, and a shade older than Major, but quite a bit younger than Johnson, Brown, or May). There's no comparison with Howard, who was 62 on becoming leader and a few days short of 65 by the 2005 election. It was fair to assume, even if he'd won in 2005, he'd have retired before all that long. That's just not true for a 50 year old - Smith would want to stay as long as people would have him.

    Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is not junior. And given Brexit it's pretty important.

    Smith is older than the obvious Cabinet contenders.

    A very long shot I agree. But less because of his personal qualities and more because the Tory party seems to have gone temporarily insane.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Highly unlikely, every new PM who has come in midterm since WW2 has held one of the Great Offices of State in Cabinet ie Chancellor, Home Secretary or Foreign Secretary. I therefore cannot see beyond Sunak, Truss or Patel (or indeed Raab or Hunt who have been Foreign Secretary in the past or Javid as a former Chancellor) replacing Boris if he goes before the next general election.

    Harper is therefore a very dark horse indeed

    Indeed. Such a dark horse that he wasn't even mentioned in the header at all.
    Isn't that a little unfair in that Julian Smith was hardly likely to feature in anyione else's commentary.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    My eyebrows are currently in Scotland.

    I fear the trustees are going to have to walk.

    Capt Sir Tom Moore: Watchdog to review charity's accounts


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650

    It’s the new Kids’ Company!

    More seriously, the case against the trustees will rest on motivation and advice received, to people who may or may not have courted publicity.

    Presumably the charity quickly became the full-time job of a few people who were otherwise unemployed by the pandemic (with all the furlough and recovery schemes that briefly existed) , so the case will rest on where one draws the line at expenses and salaries.

    Can I bill my own charity £100 a day for my time? How’s about £300, if that’s what I was earning before I was made redundant? How’s about £500, if that’s what charities making a million a week in normal times are paying their CEOs?
    Being careful to cross legal lines and all....

    There is an interesting history to the following kind of structure -

    A company or charity that seems to make little money. Or even a loss. But contracts chunks of work to other companies (often based in low/no tax domain). Those companies seem to do alright. And how.

    A bid by a bearded ex-record company bloke to run the National Lottery was setup to use this structure, IIRC.
    In my view it's quite astonishing that Batmanwoman didn't go to jail over Kids' Company.
    She was a member of the New Upper 10,000 - or at least so involved with numerous members of the 10K that a problem for her would be a problem for them.

    No, this is not a childish conspiracy theory - have you not noticed that at a certain level in public life, abject failure of the kind that would send you and I to the ranks of the unemployable, is merely a change of job? A golden goodbye, quite often, a golden hello and a salary raise.

    Cressida Dick. Joyce Thacker etc etc
    "No, this is not a childish conspiracy theory"

    Quite right. It's not a conspiracy at all, but it is (corrupt - personally not sure) unfortunate, unnessaary, and lazy crap.
    My favourite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Prince nearly crashed Citi Bank and most of the world economy.

    He complained that he only left Citi with a $91 million dollar payoff and was having trouble finding a job suitable for a man of his station....

    Don't worry, he found one. Several in fact.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,296
    kinabalu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:


    Right. But 'size of cake' is largely outside UK government control. If the answer to "How can we maximize wealth creation?" were mainly a matter of domestic political choices it'd be the end of politics.

    Sure if we discover oil in the Irish sea that's a bit random... and the economy goes through cycles and shocks (and pandemics), but in the long run the strength of our economy is strongly influenced by the various choices the UK govt makes.
    I don't think so. I think government's influence is marginal.
    South Korea/North Korea -> one awful govt, one good, has led to one of the world's wealthiest and poorest countries to be next door.

    That's an extreme example, but I would say it's true between western democracies also, albeit with some confounding factors like natural resources.

    Why do you think say Germany is wealthier than Italy, if it's not their domestic political choices?
    Wouldn't you agree that the UK's current stagnation economically has coincided with a series of rather poor governments making some rather poor choices?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    edited February 2022
    So, who are the dark horses overall? We have a sort of tiered system don't we:

    High chance of second round:

    - Sunak
    - Truss

    Will definitely or probably stand, some chance of second round:

    - Javid
    - Tugendhat
    - Hunt

    Darkish horses:

    - Harper
    - Mordaunt
    - Hancock?

    Ultra-dark horses:

    - Julian Smith and assorted remainers
    - One of the ERG spartans
    - Lord Frost
  • Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816
  • So Boris Johnson did mislead the House, again.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    TimS said:

    So, who are the dark horses overall? We have a sort of tiered system don't we:

    High chance of second round:

    - Sunak
    - Truss

    Will definitely or probably stand, some chance of second round:

    - Javid
    - Tugendhat
    - Hunt

    Darkish horses:

    - Harper
    - Mordaunt
    - Hancock?

    Ultra-dark horses:

    - Julian Smith and assorted remainers
    - One of the ERG spartans
    - Lord Frost

    Raab and Patel are both strong, albeit possibly flawed, runners.

    We know David Lammy will be taking soundings too.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Omnium said:

    The problem for Boris Johnson is he has two Chief Whips gunning for him.

    I presume you count Williamson in those two. Boris gave him more than enough rope, and I doubt there's bad blood.
    Nope. Harper and Smith.
    Hasn't Andrew Mitchell declared against Boris too? He was, briefly, chief whip in 2012 (before being taken out by Plebgate).
    He has, and lest we forget, a former chief whip torpedoed Boris Johnson's leadership ambitions in 2016.
    Indeed, he did. Of the many Govt Chief Whips there have been since the beginning of the 20thC only one has become PM. Ted Heath. Knowing where the bodies are buried is seemingly just an ancillary skill for getting you to the top of the greasy pole.
    Yep, those who make the top are better at creating bodies than burying them.
  • Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    TimS said:

    So, who are the dark horses overall? We have a sort of tiered system don't we:

    High chance of second round:

    - Sunak
    - Truss

    Will definitely or probably stand, some chance of second round:

    - Javid
    - Tugendhat
    - Hunt

    Darkish horses:

    - Harper
    - Mordaunt
    - Hancock?

    Ultra-dark horses:

    - Julian Smith and assorted remainers
    - One of the ERG spartans
    - Lord Frost

    Frost is ineligible, unless he does a Douglas-Home.
  • Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    Depends on the tiers at the time, but generally yes.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    So Boris Johnson did mislead the House, again.

    And?

    It doesn't matter because the Speaker isn't doing anything about it and most Tory MPs don't care.
  • TimS said:

    So, who are the dark horses overall? We have a sort of tiered system don't we:

    High chance of second round:

    - Sunak
    - Truss

    Will definitely or probably stand, some chance of second round:

    - Javid
    - Tugendhat
    - Hunt

    Darkish horses:

    - Harper
    - Mordaunt
    - Hancock?

    Ultra-dark horses:

    - Julian Smith and assorted remainers
    - One of the ERG spartans
    - Lord Frost

    Hancock is so deluded he will try and stand. Whether he can get more than a couple of signatures is another matter.

    Although perhaps it should be noted that he resigned for an act that now seems positively small potatoes compared to industrial scale parties and god knows what else at No 10 all through lockdowns.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Well he's certainly well educated
  • Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
    In their workplace?
  • Simon_PeachSimon_Peach Posts: 424
    edited February 2022
    Julian Smith is an excellent constituency MP having intervened on a number of matters locally: rural broadband (he opened our community gigabit network), school funding and getting the utilities to expedite storm damage…. However, he is more likely to be in team-Rishi being in the neighbouring constituency and getting on well… wouldn’t be surprised to see him back as NI Secretary in a Sunak cabinet… certainly he never misses an opportunity to tweet support for NI politicians and officials on all sides…
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    Roger said:

    Well he's certainly well educated

    You were at Millfield, ISTR?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
    If people from outside were invited to the “party”, then there’s a problem I agree.

    But the people already in the bubble, having a social drink at their desks at the end of the day, what’s the issue?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
    If people from outside were invited to the “party”, then there’s a problem I agree.

    But the people already in the bubble, having a social drink at their desks at the end of the day, what’s the issue?
    The issue is that they weren't allowed to. They could meet only for work. Even in a workplace.

    Whether that was a sensible rule or not, it was their rule so they don't really have an excuse. If they thought it was a dumb rule they should have changed it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Interesting article by Mary Harrington.

    "Why Twitter is so awful
    Sooner or later, we all become voyeuristic caricatures"

    https://unherd.com/2022/02/why-twitter-is-so-awful/
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    So, who are the dark horses overall? We have a sort of tiered system don't we:

    High chance of second round:

    - Sunak
    - Truss

    Will definitely or probably stand, some chance of second round:

    - Javid
    - Tugendhat
    - Hunt

    Darkish horses:

    - Harper
    - Mordaunt
    - Hancock?

    Ultra-dark horses:

    - Julian Smith and assorted remainers
    - One of the ERG spartans
    - Lord Frost

    Raab and Patel are both strong, albeit possibly flawed, runners.

    We know David Lammy will be taking soundings too.
    To lead the tory party?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    eek said:

    So Boris Johnson did mislead the House, again.

    And?

    It doesn't matter because the Speaker isn't doing anything about it and most Tory MPs don't care.
    Do the public care ? I don’t get the impression they do.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
    If people from outside were invited to the “party”, then there’s a problem I agree.

    But the people already in the bubble, having a social drink at their desks at the end of the day, what’s the issue?
    This.


  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
    If people from outside were invited to the “party”, then there’s a problem I agree.

    But the people already in the bubble, having a social drink at their desks at the end of the day, what’s the issue?
    The issue is that they weren't allowed to. They could meet only for work. Even in a workplace.

    Whether that was a sensible rule or not, it was their rule so they don't really have an excuse. If they thought it was a dumb rule they should have changed it.
    Although as @Cyclefree keeps reminding us, what was Law and what Guidance? Thats the key.
    In political terms it doesn't matter. To all onlookers it seems clear that there were multiple gatherings/parties etc, that the PM was at some and then lied to the house about it. Thats enough. He should have resigned, not for the parties, but for lying to the house. But he clearly has no standards at all.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    IshmaelZ said:

    Omnium said:

    TimS said:

    So, who are the dark horses overall? We have a sort of tiered system don't we:

    High chance of second round:

    - Sunak
    - Truss

    Will definitely or probably stand, some chance of second round:

    - Javid
    - Tugendhat
    - Hunt

    Darkish horses:

    - Harper
    - Mordaunt
    - Hancock?

    Ultra-dark horses:

    - Julian Smith and assorted remainers
    - One of the ERG spartans
    - Lord Frost

    Raab and Patel are both strong, albeit possibly flawed, runners.

    We know David Lammy will be taking soundings too.
    To lead the tory party?
    Joke obviously, but Lammy is alway open to opportunities. Don't worry though.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
    If people from outside were invited to the “party”, then there’s a problem I agree.

    But the people already in the bubble, having a social drink at their desks at the end of the day, what’s the issue?
    This.


    Guidance or Law?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    Well he's certainly well educated

    You were at Millfield, ISTR?
    I had assumed that @Roger was referring to his time at Birmingham. As he is 4 years younger than me we did not overlap.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
    If people from outside were invited to the “party”, then there’s a problem I agree.

    But the people already in the bubble, having a social drink at their desks at the end of the day, what’s the issue?
    Illegality
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
    If people from outside were invited to the “party”, then there’s a problem I agree.

    But the people already in the bubble, having a social drink at their desks at the end of the day, what’s the issue?
    This.


    Guidance or Law?
    There was a link last week which said people were getting fined for similar parties at the same time.

    So I'm guessing it was the law.
  • Sandpit said:

    My eyebrows are currently in Scotland.

    I fear the trustees are going to have to walk.

    Capt Sir Tom Moore: Watchdog to review charity's accounts


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650

    It’s the new Kids’ Company!

    More seriously, the case against the trustees will rest on motivation and advice received, to people who may or may not have courted publicity.

    Presumably the charity quickly became the full-time job of a few people who were otherwise unemployed by the pandemic (with all the furlough and recovery schemes that briefly existed) , so the case will rest on where one draws the line at expenses and salaries.

    Can I bill my own charity £100 a day for my time? How’s about £300, if that’s what I was earning before I was made redundant? How’s about £500, if that’s what charities making a million a week in normal times are paying their CEOs?
    Perhaps you could consult with #45? He is a Grand Master at the non-charitable "charity" Con-game.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    HYUFD said:

    Highly unlikely, every new PM who has come in midterm since WW2 has held one of the Great Offices of State in Cabinet ie Chancellor, Home Secretary or Foreign Secretary. I therefore cannot see beyond Sunak, Truss or Patel (or indeed Raab or Hunt who have been Foreign Secretary in the past or Javid as a former Chancellor) replacing Boris if he goes before the next general election.

    Harper is therefore a very dark horse indeed

    Patel? Are you being serious? If you could fix it I'm sure PM Starmer would show his gratitude (Know what I mean Nod nod wink wink.....).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    A comment from the Gray report:

    . 21 In particular, No 10 Downing Street and the Cabinet Office were at the centre of the Government’s response to the pandemic. Tight knit groups of officials and advisers worked long hours under difficult conditions in buildings that could not be easily adapted as Covid secure workplaces. No 10 Downing Street and the Cabinet Office in 70 Whitehall are closely interconnected, with staff moving regularly between the two buildings as part of their daily work. The Prime Minister’s flat and the Downing Street garden are in close proximity to the offices and serve a dual office and private purpose. 22. Those challenges, however, also applied to key and frontline workers across the country who were working under equally, if not more, demanding conditions, often at risk to their own health. It is important to remember the stringency of the public health regulations in force in England over the relevant periods and that criminal sanctions were applied to many found to be in breach of them. The hardship under which citizens across the country worked, lived and sadly even died while observing the Government’s regulations and guidance rigorously are known only too well

    Several aspects to this. First of all, let's face it, a lot of these people had they done no work at all throughout the pandemic would have been doing the rest of us a massive favour. On 12 days between March 2020 and July, the DfE issued five contradictory pieces of guidance before 9 in the morning. On average, they issued two pieces of advice a day. This did not make keeping the education system running any easier. The PM's office, we know find, set up a track and trace system as vast cost that has been worse than useless. So actually, it's hard to argue (unlike in the case of doctors, teachers or delivery drivers) that they couldn't have worked from home.

    Secondly, any of those people, whether they worked together or not, couldn't socialise. No Christmas parties for me, or Foxy. Heck, we even switched staff meetings to Zoom when we were in the same building. So how come they get different treatment?

    Whether this was a sensible law is beside the point. It was the law. They are claiming special exemption for reasons so specious even Dominic Cummings has seen through them (and we all know how bad his eyesight is). If they break their own laws, they deserve to get the shit kicked out of them by the law.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited February 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard is reviewing its assessment that the Christmas quiz in No 10 on December 15 2020 did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation after an image surfaced of Boris Johnson near a bottle of wine

    The Metropolitan Police said in a statement: “The MPS previously assessed this event and determined that on the basis of the evidence available at that time, it did not meet the threshold for criminal investigation.

    "That assessment is now being reviewed.”


    https://twitter.com/BlewettSam/status/1491457301114658816

    So the other parties were far worse presumably?

    Is the threshold a factor how many open bottles there are in each photo?
    It’s all bollocks. These people had all been working together in the same place for months. If there was any evidence of an actual party involving politicians, with DJ and dancing, it would have been produced by now.
    You keep posting this general point.

    That was not the law or the rules at the time. The rules were crystal clear. It did not matter one fuck that you had worked next to the people for days on end or not. You could not meet socially and this is what they did.
    If people from outside were invited to the “party”, then there’s a problem I agree.

    But the people already in the bubble, having a social drink at their desks at the end of the day, what’s the issue?
    The issue is that they weren't allowed to. They could meet only for work. Even in a workplace.

    Whether that was a sensible rule or not, it was their rule so they don't really have an excuse. If they thought it was a dumb rule they should have changed it.
    Although as @Cyclefree keeps reminding us, what was Law and what Guidance? Thats the key.
    In political terms it doesn't matter. To all onlookers it seems clear that there were multiple gatherings/parties etc, that the PM was at some and then lied to the house about it. Thats enough. He should have resigned, not for the parties, but for lying to the house. But he clearly has no standards at all.
    Well, they were claiming it was law.

    So if that bites them on the arse, all that proves is that they're even dumber than we thought. Which would be funny, if very improbable.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited February 2022
    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:


    Right. But 'size of cake' is largely outside UK government control. If the answer to "How can we maximize wealth creation?" were mainly a matter of domestic political choices it'd be the end of politics.

    Sure if we discover oil in the Irish sea that's a bit random... and the economy goes through cycles and shocks (and pandemics), but in the long run the strength of our economy is strongly influenced by the various choices the UK govt makes.
    I don't think so. I think government's influence is marginal.
    South Korea/North Korea -> one awful govt, one good, has led to one of the world's wealthiest and poorest countries to be next door.

    That's an extreme example, but I would say it's true between western democracies also, albeit with some confounding factors like natural resources.

    Why do you think say Germany is wealthier than Italy, if it's not their domestic political choices?
    Wouldn't you agree that the UK's current stagnation economically has coincided with a series of rather poor governments making some rather poor choices?
    I agree government policies can impact on GDP/head but I think it tends to be marginal compared to other factors outside their control. If domestic political choices were the key factor in a country growing its total wealth it'd be pretty obvious by now what the right choices were and every democracy would be making them. In general I'd say governments have a greater ability to seriously damage the economy than to seriously help it. So any UK government that during its term avoids doing anything big and stupid on the economy (eg Brexit) is for me doing ok on that score. Where governments can have a genuinely huge impact is on how wealth and opportunity is distributed. This is therefore where the focus should be imo.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    Julian Smith is an excellent constituency MP having intervened on a number of matters locally: rural broadband (he opened our community gigabit network), school funding and getting the utilities to expedite storm damage…. However, he is more likely to be in team-Rishi being in the neighbouring constituency and getting on well… wouldn’t be surprised to see him back as NI Secretary in a Sunak cabinet… certainly he never misses an opportunity to tweet support for NI politicians and officials on all sides…

    Yes - he seems to take a genuine interest in the place. I find this very commendable. It speaks well of him.

    I hope he does find a place in government again. It's not as if the party is overburdened with decency or competence at the moment. And if it is to recover some sense of honour it is people like him who will help. Not the braying liars we see far too much of these days.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Highly unlikely, every new PM who has come in midterm since WW2 has held one of the Great Offices of State in Cabinet ie Chancellor, Home Secretary or Foreign Secretary. I therefore cannot see beyond Sunak, Truss or Patel (or indeed Raab or Hunt who have been Foreign Secretary in the past or Javid as a former Chancellor) replacing Boris if he goes before the next general election.

    Harper is therefore a very dark horse indeed

    Patel? Are you being serious? If you could fix it I'm sure PM Starmer would show his gratitude (Know what I mean Nod nod wink wink.....).
    Well if he's not, I am.

    Her unpopularity is entirely manufactured. She does have an unfortunate resting smirk though.

    It's very hard to work out if the Home Office like her or not. I'd guess they hate her less than everyone else.


    I don't think she'll run, and that's a shame I think.
  • My word.


  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting article by Mary Harrington.

    "Why Twitter is so awful
    Sooner or later, we all become voyeuristic caricatures"

    https://unherd.com/2022/02/why-twitter-is-so-awful/

    An article which, like so many, uses the word "we" to mean "most people except the reader and me" - more or less the opposite of its traditional and humble role.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Yes, the issue is the double standards. They made us all wear hair shirts while they kept donning the silk undergarments.

    That, and the subsequent, blatant, piss taking lies.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    To any Tory MPs thinking 'Please make it stop!' - which most of them must be - you have the means. Just do it. It's not going to stop by itself.

    ...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I really do not see Julian Smith in the frame to be honest

    However, a bit of better news for no 10 re bullying by party whips

    'The Met concluded that, at the current time, there is no evidence of any criminal offence.

    As a result no further action will be taken by the MPS'

    Cressie wants that peerage so bad she can taste it
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    Omnium said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Highly unlikely, every new PM who has come in midterm since WW2 has held one of the Great Offices of State in Cabinet ie Chancellor, Home Secretary or Foreign Secretary. I therefore cannot see beyond Sunak, Truss or Patel (or indeed Raab or Hunt who have been Foreign Secretary in the past or Javid as a former Chancellor) replacing Boris if he goes before the next general election.

    Harper is therefore a very dark horse indeed

    Patel? Are you being serious? If you could fix it I'm sure PM Starmer would show his gratitude (Know what I mean Nod nod wink wink.....).
    Well if he's not, I am.

    Her unpopularity is entirely manufactured. She does have an unfortunate resting smirk though.

    It's very hard to work out if the Home Office like her or not. I'd guess they hate her less than everyone else.


    I don't think she'll run, and that's a shame I think.
    She’s regularly at the bottom of conservative home surveys of cabinet members. Below even Gavin Williamson when he was in education.
This discussion has been closed.