Does no-one in government have any familiarity with teenage boys trying to find ‘bad stuff’ online?
I don't feel strongly about this.
Yes, not all websites will comply (obviously). But I am quite sure that the big players will. That will put off *some* under 18s. And I do think it is a real issue at the moment.
The Savile slur was not the first time the PM has wrongly smeared people doing their job. Nor the first time the Home Secretary has done so. Nor the first time the Attorney-General has remained quiet. Nor the first time the PM and the Home Secretary have been warned or criticised about what they have said.
It was, let's be blunt, a none too disguised nasty smear, designed to get people thinking exactly what this mob were shouting.
An utter disgrace.
Still, kudos to Julian Smith, former Chief Whip and Northern Ireland Secretary, who seems to be one of the few Tory MPs with a moral compass.
I don't know who is worse. The moral degenerate who said it. Or the moral degenerates who even now are resolutely defending him.
Or the moral degenerates who defended Corbyn? Or who defended Brown during McBride's shitbaggery?
To make it clear: Johnson was in the wrong. However I would refer you to my post below: mistakes were made by the CPS and the police. What happened to those who made those critical mistakes?
(I think we all know the answer).
Smears good/bad.
One man's smears are another man's truth. For instance, I have zero doubt that Corbyn is an anti-Semite, and there is evidence to back that assertion up. I'm guessing you would see that as a smear.
That's another thing about this mess; if it had been a Conservative in charge of the CPS at the time, many of those defending Starmer would be saying: "Now convenient the records have been destroyed! How unlikely is it that the head of the organisation was not told of an investigation into a very public figure?"
Exactly, as I pointed out the other day Starmer was fully involved in the Chris Huhne case, but apparently knew absolutely nothing about the Saville case.
If it had been a SeniorTory as head of the CPS at the time this happened, would Labour just accept his word that he knew nothing.
I would suspect that the general approach would be that all significant decisions TO prosecute would be passed upwards. Less so decisions not to prosecute. As a general rule what embarrasses the CPS is failed prosecutions. Huge expense of public money to earn “not guilty” verdicts. Not failure to prosecute for lack of evidence sufficient for conviction.
But that is the criticism of SKS as DPP. He was excessively cautious.
Now maybe that is the mindset of the CPS, but it should not be. There has been a long history of failure to prosecute child abusers (the North Wales Child abuse scandals, the various grooming gangs, and so on).
The same with rape. E.g., the failure to prosecute all of the Warboys cases leading to his attempted early release (another case where SKS hardly covered himself in glory).
And it is reasonable to ask why this is -- and it is reasonable to conclude that the mindset of CPS is part of the problem.
It seems to me perfectly fair that SKS's record is examined.
And it seems to me fair to conclude that SKS's record is pretty mixed.
But the people shouting at him didn't want to examine his record, or begin a thoughtful public debate about the institutional failings of the CPS. Many of them probably think he is part of a conspiracy, because Johnson repeated a conspiracy meme from the internet.
I think allegations of permitting/consorting with child abusers are absolutely standard in modern politics.
Did Tom Watson ever apologize for any of his allegations? Were any of them ever shown to be true?
Remember, Watson spoke of “clear intelligence suggesting a powerful pedophile network linked to parliament and number 10.”
Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, the Lolita Express. Wink-wink. Joe Biden and his creepy behaviour towards young girls and women, nudge, nudge.
It is absolutely standard. Boris is just using a well-worn tactic of both the right and left.
Tom Watson never apologised. Just "regret".
What he did, in my view, is far worse than what Johnson did. Yet the reactions are totally different.
People went to their graves with these allegations from Carl Beech hanging over them and yet there are people on the labour side who still think Watson deserves a place in the Lords.
It could be Rishi's last chance to act around now, like early last week. I don't think his chances are going to increase going forward, unless something cataclysmic happens ; and the direction-changing cataclysms, rather than drip-drip like today, seem to have dried up, for the moment.
The problem for Sunak is that he’s made a stand over certain big spending/tax issues recently and I get the impression that he’s actually a man of principle so he has the dilemma that he could walk out and maybe bring down Boris or stay.
If he walks out and it doesn’t bring down Boris then he knows Boris will have a free hand to put in a yes man at the treasury (and he’s going to select his yes man more carefully this time I imagine…) and undo any “sound money” approach.
If he walks and brings down Boris then there is no guarantee he will replace Boris so again runs the risk that his “sound money” attitude might be ignored as a new leader turns on the taps to try and ensure a win at next election.
So if you are a man of principle (which I believe he is) then what do you do, walk away and risk a disaster or stay and manage it as best you can and the. If things change fundamentally re Boris then hopefully you get the gig and carry on?
It’s maybe like being on a ship where the Captain is pissed and you have the opportunity to jump ship at a port stop off but you know if you do then you were the only one who was fixing the captain’s navigation errors and so if you leave there is a higher chance the ship hits the rocks and everyone dies.
You can stay and try and stop it and hope that the captain gets replaced or jump ship and save yourself.
A reasonable enough description of the dilemma faced by SKS during the Corbyn years in fairness.
Starmer the valiant hero stayed to save us all and kick Jews out of the Labour party.
Before I get accused of being a fan of Starmer or an anti semite I don't think he is a valiant hero and I am not a fan of his anti Jewish crusade.
Good to see you back. What are your thoughts about Starmer? So far we've only heard from one 'Corbynite' and he seems to have lost it. Hest chants the same mantra every time he appears
I loathe the man so much I may vote Tory to try to play my small part in stopping him.
What is there to 'loathe' about Starmer? Corbyn, yes, Johnson, yes, but Starmer?
From my POV the same question applies but with Corbyn at the start, different strokes for different folks. Bigotry and lies with a dash of working for the rich fronted by a squeaky voice and the bonus of mad authoritarian who can't take criticism really isn't my cup of tea...
Even Johnson sure plenty to criticise but in comparison to Starmer, I'd have a lifetime of Johnson over a minute of Starmer.
The Savile slur was not the first time the PM has wrongly smeared people doing their job. Nor the first time the Home Secretary has done so. Nor the first time the Attorney-General has remained quiet. Nor the first time the PM and the Home Secretary have been warned or criticised about what they have said.
It was, let's be blunt, a none too disguised nasty smear, designed to get people thinking exactly what this mob were shouting.
An utter disgrace.
Still, kudos to Julian Smith, former Chief Whip and Northern Ireland Secretary, who seems to be one of the few Tory MPs with a moral compass.
I don't know who is worse. The moral degenerate who said it. Or the moral degenerates who even now are resolutely defending him.
Or the moral degenerates who defended Corbyn? Or who defended Brown during McBride's shitbaggery?
To make it clear: Johnson was in the wrong. However I would refer you to my post below: mistakes were made by the CPS and the police. What happened to those who made those critical mistakes?
(I think we all know the answer).
They really weren't. Read the background: the investigation found they things could probably have been done differently with possibly a different result. It wasn't a slam dunk. For instance the complainants said they weren't prepared to give evidence in court. The investigation said Well, if they had known about each other they might have been more confident. Really? Or they might have been confident enough to say they would, and then backed out at the last moment. This happens a lot.
So who in your view made what critical mistakes?
We'll never know, because the records were deleted.
And remember that this was just the end of a long chain of events where Saville got away with his behaviour, over decades.
You are, with respect, dealing in second hand smears.
The records were destroyed *in line with standard practice*
We do nonetheless know a lot because these events of 2009 were investigated and a report delivered in 2013. I bet you don't know without googling who did the investigation?
Your final paragraph is sublimely irrelevant. Do you think the CPS is in charge of the police?
Why was SKS fully involved in the Chris Huhne case but knew absolutely nothing about the Saville case?
Which case was more serious?
The answer is obvious. Chris Huhne had just had a tremendous row in Cabinet with George Osborne - sufficiently well reported at the time for me to have read about it. That was not the only instance of a Lib Dem colleague falling out with a top Tory, or overshadowing him in the public gaze, only to have some misdemeanour exposed in the media.
I am reminded of this when I read of the dirty tricked that were threatened to be used against Conservative MPs who have dared to fall out with Boris Johnson recently.
It was Huhne’s ex-wife who dobbed him in for the speeding ticket fraud, after he dumped her for another woman, was it not?
I think you are misremembering the sequence of events......
The Savile slur was not the first time the PM has wrongly smeared people doing their job. Nor the first time the Home Secretary has done so. Nor the first time the Attorney-General has remained quiet. Nor the first time the PM and the Home Secretary have been warned or criticised about what they have said.
It was, let's be blunt, a none too disguised nasty smear, designed to get people thinking exactly what this mob were shouting.
An utter disgrace.
Still, kudos to Julian Smith, former Chief Whip and Northern Ireland Secretary, who seems to be one of the few Tory MPs with a moral compass.
I don't know who is worse. The moral degenerate who said it. Or the moral degenerates who even now are resolutely defending him.
Or the moral degenerates who defended Corbyn? Or who defended Brown during McBride's shitbaggery?
To make it clear: Johnson was in the wrong. However I would refer you to my post below: mistakes were made by the CPS and the police. What happened to those who made those critical mistakes?
(I think we all know the answer).
They really weren't. Read the background: the investigation found they things could probably have been done differently with possibly a different result. It wasn't a slam dunk. For instance the complainants said they weren't prepared to give evidence in court. The investigation said Well, if they had known about each other they might have been more confident. Really? Or they might have been confident enough to say they would, and then backed out at the last moment. This happens a lot.
So who in your view made what critical mistakes?
We'll never know, because the records were deleted.
And remember that this was just the end of a long chain of events where Saville got away with his behaviour, over decades.
You are, with respect, dealing in second hand smears.
The records were destroyed *in line with standard practice*
We do nonetheless know a lot because these events of 2009 were investigated and a report delivered in 2013. I bet you don't know without googling who did the investigation?
Your final paragraph is sublimely irrelevant. Do you think the CPS is in charge of the police?
If it is standard practice for records to be destroyed in this case, then standard practice is wrong. The Saville case is important for a number of reasons, and it was always possible for it to explode once again.
My last paragraph was very important and relevant. This all matters, because the effects of these mistakes and missteps (at best) echo down the years and decades. So many people did not get justice.
1. You misunderstand the process
2. You are corrected
3. You attack the process
I would almost guarantee that you have at some stage said approvingly on these boards that English justice = innocent till proven guilty, and that applies across the board. The rule is not, not definitively guilty, but probably a wrong 'un if the CPS have noticed him, so we will keep this prejudicial material indefinitely.
Again, your last paragraph is irrelevant. The question is how much justice would a *failed* prosecution have given anyone? How do you think you prosecute someone when your witnesses decline to give evidence against them?
You are being fairly incoherent.
I am really not. But if I am incoherent stop reading me, and go and read some of the ample evidence freely available on the internet about all this, rather than commentate on your own wildly inaccurate guesses?
I do not believe I misunderstood the process. In addition, of course I believe in 'innocent until proven guilty' - I fail to see why you think that is relevant.
The Saville situation is just one of many similar situations that have occurred over the decades - it is vital lessons are learned and they are prevented from occurring again.
Your insinuation that there was something suspicious about the CPS destroying records.
Destruction of records and rotation of managers through jobs on a timescale of a couple of years are standard throughout all large organisations, as a way of protecting careers.
The original justification for the destruction of records was that they take up space. In the age of electronic record keeping, not so much. A relative who tuns a business pays for a service that scans paperwork - everything over a certain age goes into it. He also (being IT minded) then runs OCR to create a search index.
On topic but the government defence of Johnson's Saville comments today are infuriating. Muttering something about Starmer not prosecuting Saville is not a reasonable discussion on organisational accountability. It's like arguing that talking about the Hollywood elite harvesting children's plasma is a fair discussion on the failings of the cosmetics industry
Too late. We've already had 70,000,000 Turks arriving. Johnson is a piece of shit. Let's hope the judgement on him is served before it's left to history
It could be Rishi's last chance to act around now, like early last week. I don't think his chances are going to increase going forward, unless something cataclysmic happens ; and the direction-changing cataclysms, rather than drip-drip like today, seem to have dried up, for the moment.
The problem for Sunak is that he’s made a stand over certain big spending/tax issues recently and I get the impression that he’s actually a man of principle so he has the dilemma that he could walk out and maybe bring down Boris or stay.
If he walks out and it doesn’t bring down Boris then he knows Boris will have a free hand to put in a yes man at the treasury (and he’s going to select his yes man more carefully this time I imagine…) and undo any “sound money” approach.
If he walks and brings down Boris then there is no guarantee he will replace Boris so again runs the risk that his “sound money” attitude might be ignored as a new leader turns on the taps to try and ensure a win at next election.
So if you are a man of principle (which I believe he is) then what do you do, walk away and risk a disaster or stay and manage it as best you can and the. If things change fundamentally re Boris then hopefully you get the gig and carry on?
It’s maybe like being on a ship where the Captain is pissed and you have the opportunity to jump ship at a port stop off but you know if you do then you were the only one who was fixing the captain’s navigation errors and so if you leave there is a higher chance the ship hits the rocks and everyone dies.
You can stay and try and stop it and hope that the captain gets replaced or jump ship and save yourself.
A reasonable enough description of the dilemma faced by SKS during the Corbyn years in fairness.
Starmer the valiant hero stayed to save us all and kick Jews out of the Labour party.
Before I get accused of being a fan of Starmer or an anti semite I don't think he is a valiant hero and I am not a fan of his anti Jewish crusade.
Good to see you back. What are your thoughts about Starmer? So far we've only heard from one 'Corbynite' and he seems to have lost it. Hest chants the same mantra every time he appears
I loathe the man so much I may vote Tory to try to play my small part in stopping him.
What is there to 'loathe' about Starmer? Corbyn, yes, Johnson, yes, but Starmer?
Starmer is now forever linked with Savile. It was a Crosbyesque gamble that looks like it is paying off.
Downing Street are quite cynically doubling down on Johnson's non-apology and Chris Philp spent the morning entwining Starmer and Savile with his support of Johnson's "clarification". Listening to Five Live there was more criticism of Starmer than there was of Johnson.
If Johnson can ride out the next few days he is emboldened and Starmer permanently weakened. Lynton Crosby has done his work.
No I don't think so MP. The association is too far-fetched, unless you already have some kind of agenda.
The "beauty" of the divisive politics beloved of Johnson and Trump, is of course that many previously normal people have developed "some kind of agenda" so are ever more receptive of further nonsense.
When Boris finally leaves I do hope that the next decent Tory leader finds a role for Julian Smith who was not only a very good Northern Ireland Secretary of State but also has a moral compass. It's not as if we're falling over competent decent MPs - let alone Ministers - these days.
Does no-one in government have any familiarity with teenage boys trying to find ‘bad stuff’ online?
I don't feel strongly about this.
Yes, not all websites will comply (obviously). But I am quite sure that the big players will. That will put off *some* under 18s. And I do think it is a real issue at the moment.
There is indeed an issue with piles of unsuitable material for teenagers online, but this proposal is absolutely the wrong way to go about dealing with it.
It won’t stop the problem, will make millions of legitimate users jump through hoops (or deploy the same evasion tactics as the teenagers), and will generate a database of ID ready to be compromised for use in theft or fraud.
It could be Rishi's last chance to act around now, like early last week. I don't think his chances are going to increase going forward, unless something cataclysmic happens ; and the direction-changing cataclysms, rather than drip-drip like today, seem to have dried up, for the moment.
The problem for Sunak is that he’s made a stand over certain big spending/tax issues recently and I get the impression that he’s actually a man of principle so he has the dilemma that he could walk out and maybe bring down Boris or stay.
If he walks out and it doesn’t bring down Boris then he knows Boris will have a free hand to put in a yes man at the treasury (and he’s going to select his yes man more carefully this time I imagine…) and undo any “sound money” approach.
If he walks and brings down Boris then there is no guarantee he will replace Boris so again runs the risk that his “sound money” attitude might be ignored as a new leader turns on the taps to try and ensure a win at next election.
So if you are a man of principle (which I believe he is) then what do you do, walk away and risk a disaster or stay and manage it as best you can and the. If things change fundamentally re Boris then hopefully you get the gig and carry on?
It’s maybe like being on a ship where the Captain is pissed and you have the opportunity to jump ship at a port stop off but you know if you do then you were the only one who was fixing the captain’s navigation errors and so if you leave there is a higher chance the ship hits the rocks and everyone dies.
You can stay and try and stop it and hope that the captain gets replaced or jump ship and save yourself.
A reasonable enough description of the dilemma faced by SKS during the Corbyn years in fairness.
Starmer the valiant hero stayed to save us all and kick Jews out of the Labour party.
Before I get accused of being a fan of Starmer or an anti semite I don't think he is a valiant hero and I am not a fan of his anti Jewish crusade.
Good to see you back. What are your thoughts about Starmer? So far we've only heard from one 'Corbynite' and he seems to have lost it. Hest chants the same mantra every time he appears
I loathe the man so much I may vote Tory to try to play my small part in stopping him.
Thanks Jezziah.
That does help explain how the Conservatives are maintaining a level of support in excess of 30% in most opinion polls.
Don't worry they'll probably be higher when they get the media back onside.
When Boris finally leaves I do hope that the next decent Tory leader finds a role for Julian Smith who was not only a very good Northern Ireland Secretary of State but also has a moral compass. It's not as if we're falling over competent decent MPs - let alone Ministers - these days.
Part of Johnson's problem is that he had to reward those who supported him through the Brexit wars and his campaign to become PM. This helps to account for much of the dross on the front benches whilst talented MPs like Julian Smith are overlooked.
Does no-one in government have any familiarity with teenage boys trying to find ‘bad stuff’ online?
I don't feel strongly about this.
Yes, not all websites will comply (obviously). But I am quite sure that the big players will. That will put off *some* under 18s. And I do think it is a real issue at the moment.
There is indeed an issue with piles of unsuitable material for teenagers online, but this proposal is absolutely the wrong way to go about dealing with it.
It won’t stop the problem, will make millions of legitimate users jump through hoops (or deploy the same evasion tactics as the teenagers), and will generate a database of ID ready to be compromised for use in theft or fraud.
We make tobacco for sale only to over 18s. We ask adults to provide ID, even though we know it won't stop under 18s from getting their hands on some, it ensure at least some black market. It's still the correct thing to do.
In terms of the database aspect, I would need to look at the implementation details.
Does no-one in government have any familiarity with teenage boys trying to find ‘bad stuff’ online?
I don't feel strongly about this.
Yes, not all websites will comply (obviously). But I am quite sure that the big players will. That will put off *some* under 18s. And I do think it is a real issue at the moment.
There is indeed an issue with piles of unsuitable material for teenagers online, but this proposal is absolutely the wrong way to go about dealing with it.
It won’t stop the problem, will make millions of legitimate users jump through hoops (or deploy the same evasion tactics as the teenagers), and will generate a database of ID ready to be compromised for use in theft or fraud.
I also suspect it will be easier to bypass the system than actually registering...
The whole issue is utterly insane because 1) VPN networks now advertise on TV so it's not exactly going to be difficult to bypass it 2) most websites aren't hosted in the UK and simply won't care.
And those that will care will only do so because their owner is the person making the money on the registration.
I may not have been paying attention, but I've not seen many Confederate Flags around Hove.....perhaps they're in Brighton. I'll have to look out for Columbus Day next year:
TEACHER training slides about racism and 'white supremacy' have been released amid a row about the way children are being taught.
Brighton and Hove City Council released the slides from its "anti-racist schools strategy" in the interest of "transparency" and for "greater public understanding" after initially rejecting a request from a parent to see them.
The council has been accused of telling schools to teach white privilege and inherited racial guilt to children.
Campaigners claim the council's "anti-racist schools strategy" is illegal and creates "confusion, distress and division".
When Boris finally leaves I do hope that the next decent Tory leader finds a role for Julian Smith who was not only a very good Northern Ireland Secretary of State but also has a moral compass. It's not as if we're falling over competent decent MPs - let alone Ministers - these days.
Starmer is now forever linked with Savile. It was a Crosbyesque gamble that looks like it is paying off.
Maybe, but it could dominate PMQs again
1. Last week the PM made an accusation that he knows is defamatory outside this chamber. Will he now withdraw it and apologise?
for example...
Not sure continuing it is the best strategy
But Starmer can't ask it. Chris Bryant could. Or, better still, Julian Smith.
It depends if labour feel it is in their interests to keep this going
They should ask the PM to correct his statement about crime having gone down and ask him what is being done about crimes of fraud. It focuses on another of the PM's lies and on the sorts of crimes which cause misery to individuals.
Starmer is now forever linked with Savile. It was a Crosbyesque gamble that looks like it is paying off.
Maybe, but it could dominate PMQs again
1. Last week the PM made an accusation that he knows is defamatory outside this chamber. Will he now withdraw it and apologise?
for example...
That just invites the PM to repeat the allegation but using a different, less contentious, form of words.
“I thank the right honourable gentleman for the opportunity to set the record straight, and remind him that he was in charge of prosecutions in England, when the decision was made by his department not to charge Jimmy Savile following allegations by four women, who were not told about the existence of each other’s complaints”
He could probably choose to say more under Privilege, and the story would be leading the news again that the PM said Starmer ‘let off’ Savile.
Does no-one in government have any familiarity with teenage boys trying to find ‘bad stuff’ online?
I don't feel strongly about this.
Yes, not all websites will comply (obviously). But I am quite sure that the big players will. That will put off *some* under 18s. And I do think it is a real issue at the moment.
It will also give children much needed tech skills - they'll know all about VPNs and proxies before they leave school
(More seriously, I agree with you. It'll stop some, particularly the younger and those who run into it casually through shared links etc, rather than seeking out porn)
Edit: Obviously some privacy concerns though, I guess, for over 18s. Dealing with that might need some innovative solutions, but there would be ways I should think of doing age verification within those limits - say a system where you log in somewhere, prove age, get a limited time unique but non-identifying code which can then be used to prove age elsewhere. Whether something like that will actually happen is anyone's guess, I suppose...
The Irish Times have a fun article about Boris Johnson and Aldfrith, the first King of Northumbria, by Fintan O'Toole which is worth reading if you can access it.
It boils down to this:
"...if you want to govern a kingdom (or a country) you must first be able to govern yourself. That, of course, is what Johnson’s enablers always knew he could never do."
The Savile slur was not the first time the PM has wrongly smeared people doing their job. Nor the first time the Home Secretary has done so. Nor the first time the Attorney-General has remained quiet. Nor the first time the PM and the Home Secretary have been warned or criticised about what they have said.
It was, let's be blunt, a none too disguised nasty smear, designed to get people thinking exactly what this mob were shouting.
An utter disgrace.
Still, kudos to Julian Smith, former Chief Whip and Northern Ireland Secretary, who seems to be one of the few Tory MPs with a moral compass.
I don't know who is worse. The moral degenerate who said it. Or the moral degenerates who even now are resolutely defending him.
Or the moral degenerates who defended Corbyn? Or who defended Brown during McBride's shitbaggery?
To make it clear: Johnson was in the wrong. However I would refer you to my post below: mistakes were made by the CPS and the police. What happened to those who made those critical mistakes?
(I think we all know the answer).
They really weren't. Read the background: the investigation found they things could probably have been done differently with possibly a different result. It wasn't a slam dunk. For instance the complainants said they weren't prepared to give evidence in court. The investigation said Well, if they had known about each other they might have been more confident. Really? Or they might have been confident enough to say they would, and then backed out at the last moment. This happens a lot.
So who in your view made what critical mistakes?
We'll never know, because the records were deleted.
And remember that this was just the end of a long chain of events where Saville got away with his behaviour, over decades.
You are, with respect, dealing in second hand smears.
The records were destroyed *in line with standard practice*
We do nonetheless know a lot because these events of 2009 were investigated and a report delivered in 2013. I bet you don't know without googling who did the investigation?
Your final paragraph is sublimely irrelevant. Do you think the CPS is in charge of the police?
If it is standard practice for records to be destroyed in this case, then standard practice is wrong. The Saville case is important for a number of reasons, and it was always possible for it to explode once again.
My last paragraph was very important and relevant. This all matters, because the effects of these mistakes and missteps (at best) echo down the years and decades. So many people did not get justice.
1. You misunderstand the process
2. You are corrected
3. You attack the process
I would almost guarantee that you have at some stage said approvingly on these boards that English justice = innocent till proven guilty, and that applies across the board. The rule is not, not definitively guilty, but probably a wrong 'un if the CPS have noticed him, so we will keep this prejudicial material indefinitely.
Again, your last paragraph is irrelevant. The question is how much justice would a *failed* prosecution have given anyone? How do you think you prosecute someone when your witnesses decline to give evidence against them?
You are being fairly incoherent.
I am really not. But if I am incoherent stop reading me, and go and read some of the ample evidence freely available on the internet about all this, rather than commentate on your own wildly inaccurate guesses?
I do not believe I misunderstood the process. In addition, of course I believe in 'innocent until proven guilty' - I fail to see why you think that is relevant.
The Saville situation is just one of many similar situations that have occurred over the decades - it is vital lessons are learned and they are prevented from occurring again.
Your insinuation that there was something suspicious about the CPS destroying records.
My flabber is well and truly ghasted that they were destroyed.
Does no-one in government have any familiarity with teenage boys trying to find ‘bad stuff’ online?
I don't feel strongly about this.
Yes, not all websites will comply (obviously). But I am quite sure that the big players will. That will put off *some* under 18s. And I do think it is a real issue at the moment.
There is indeed an issue with piles of unsuitable material for teenagers online, but this proposal is absolutely the wrong way to go about dealing with it.
It won’t stop the problem, will make millions of legitimate users jump through hoops (or deploy the same evasion tactics as the teenagers), and will generate a database of ID ready to be compromised for use in theft or fraud.
Another moral panic of the "won't someone think of the children" variety.
It won't be enough for the campaigners and lobbyists, of course, they will demand even more measures. They always do
The Savile slur was not the first time the PM has wrongly smeared people doing their job. Nor the first time the Home Secretary has done so. Nor the first time the Attorney-General has remained quiet. Nor the first time the PM and the Home Secretary have been warned or criticised about what they have said.
It was, let's be blunt, a none too disguised nasty smear, designed to get people thinking exactly what this mob were shouting.
An utter disgrace.
Still, kudos to Julian Smith, former Chief Whip and Northern Ireland Secretary, who seems to be one of the few Tory MPs with a moral compass.
I don't know who is worse. The moral degenerate who said it. Or the moral degenerates who even now are resolutely defending him.
Or the moral degenerates who defended Corbyn? Or who defended Brown during McBride's shitbaggery?
To make it clear: Johnson was in the wrong. However I would refer you to my post below: mistakes were made by the CPS and the police. What happened to those who made those critical mistakes?
(I think we all know the answer).
They really weren't. Read the background: the investigation found they things could probably have been done differently with possibly a different result. It wasn't a slam dunk. For instance the complainants said they weren't prepared to give evidence in court. The investigation said Well, if they had known about each other they might have been more confident. Really? Or they might have been confident enough to say they would, and then backed out at the last moment. This happens a lot.
So who in your view made what critical mistakes?
We'll never know, because the records were deleted.
And remember that this was just the end of a long chain of events where Saville got away with his behaviour, over decades.
You are, with respect, dealing in second hand smears.
The records were destroyed *in line with standard practice*
We do nonetheless know a lot because these events of 2009 were investigated and a report delivered in 2013. I bet you don't know without googling who did the investigation?
Your final paragraph is sublimely irrelevant. Do you think the CPS is in charge of the police?
If it is standard practice for records to be destroyed in this case, then standard practice is wrong. The Saville case is important for a number of reasons, and it was always possible for it to explode once again.
My last paragraph was very important and relevant. This all matters, because the effects of these mistakes and missteps (at best) echo down the years and decades. So many people did not get justice.
1. You misunderstand the process
2. You are corrected
3. You attack the process
I would almost guarantee that you have at some stage said approvingly on these boards that English justice = innocent till proven guilty, and that applies across the board. The rule is not, not definitively guilty, but probably a wrong 'un if the CPS have noticed him, so we will keep this prejudicial material indefinitely.
Again, your last paragraph is irrelevant. The question is how much justice would a *failed* prosecution have given anyone? How do you think you prosecute someone when your witnesses decline to give evidence against them?
You are being fairly incoherent.
I am really not. But if I am incoherent stop reading me, and go and read some of the ample evidence freely available on the internet about all this, rather than commentate on your own wildly inaccurate guesses?
I do not believe I misunderstood the process. In addition, of course I believe in 'innocent until proven guilty' - I fail to see why you think that is relevant.
The Saville situation is just one of many similar situations that have occurred over the decades - it is vital lessons are learned and they are prevented from occurring again.
Read the latest IICSA report and you will see that not only have vital lessons not been learnt but that the same problems are still happening in a large number of places.
Deeply depressing.
Oh, indeed.
There does seem to be a lot of "Don't worry, it won't/can't happen here" in a lot of organisations. A scandal happens in one organisation, and others ignore it as *they* are different. Until it turns out they are the same.
There is a massive problem with best practices not being spread - perhaps because they are difficult to implement.
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,661; Fieldwork: 1-2 February 2022)
The South findings repeat previous surveys with added emphasis, and present a tactical voting problem. There are seats where it's obvious that the LibDems are close behind the Conservatives and the Labour vote will swing over heavily. But if you have a seat with a result like Con 40 LD 34 Lab 26, then it may well be that Labour is better-poised to take the seat, not least as that 34 will already have some tactical voting. In those seats I think the tacit deal to defer to each other will just break down. We probably need to accept that it'll work in most places but in some it just won't, and bar chart frenzy will be the order of the day.
In Scotland, I wonder if the Tory leadership's separation from Johnson is doing them some good, both directly because voters tend to agree and indirectly because it shows they're not puppets of London.
Spot on with your second paragraph Nick. Douglas Ross and his entire Holyrood team played an absolute blinder. Unanimously calling for Johnson to resign. It is definitely buoying them. For now…
SCon will have a real problem if Boris is still leader at the time of the next GE, but they should be able to ride out this year's local elections OK. Still the Go To party for the unionist anti-SNP voter given SLAB's inability to get off the floor and the lack of profile of the LibDems in much of Scotland.
I think SLab, SLD and Greens are likely to exceed expectations. SCons likely to be a little disappointed, but no collapse. Glasgow will determine how the BBC and other media report the results. A bit unfair that just 1 out of 32 results is deemed to be so important, but they know their audience.
I think you're right about Glasgow. Hugely symbolic. Home town of Sturgeon and Sarwar. Controversial council leader. Nice fat ongoing controversy in the form of litter and rats. Think SNP could under-perform here while doing fine elsewhere.
I may not have been paying attention, but I've not seen many Confederate Flags around Hove.....perhaps they're in Brighton. I'll have to look out for Columbus Day next year:
TEACHER training slides about racism and 'white supremacy' have been released amid a row about the way children are being taught.
Brighton and Hove City Council released the slides from its "anti-racist schools strategy" in the interest of "transparency" and for "greater public understanding" after initially rejecting a request from a parent to see them.
The council has been accused of telling schools to teach white privilege and inherited racial guilt to children.
Campaigners claim the council's "anti-racist schools strategy" is illegal and creates "confusion, distress and division".
LBJ: "‘I know it’s not true, but let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
That's right. Where we are is:
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable * Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer * A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
I may not have been paying attention, but I've not seen many Confederate Flags around Hove.....perhaps they're in Brighton. I'll have to look out for Columbus Day next year:
TEACHER training slides about racism and 'white supremacy' have been released amid a row about the way children are being taught.
Brighton and Hove City Council released the slides from its "anti-racist schools strategy" in the interest of "transparency" and for "greater public understanding" after initially rejecting a request from a parent to see them.
The council has been accused of telling schools to teach white privilege and inherited racial guilt to children.
Campaigners claim the council's "anti-racist schools strategy" is illegal and creates "confusion, distress and division".
It could be Rishi's last chance to act around now, like early last week. I don't think his chances are going to increase going forward, unless something cataclysmic happens ; and the direction-changing cataclysms, rather than drip-drip like today, seem to have dried up, for the moment.
The problem for Sunak is that he’s made a stand over certain big spending/tax issues recently and I get the impression that he’s actually a man of principle so he has the dilemma that he could walk out and maybe bring down Boris or stay.
If he walks out and it doesn’t bring down Boris then he knows Boris will have a free hand to put in a yes man at the treasury (and he’s going to select his yes man more carefully this time I imagine…) and undo any “sound money” approach.
If he walks and brings down Boris then there is no guarantee he will replace Boris so again runs the risk that his “sound money” attitude might be ignored as a new leader turns on the taps to try and ensure a win at next election.
So if you are a man of principle (which I believe he is) then what do you do, walk away and risk a disaster or stay and manage it as best you can and the. If things change fundamentally re Boris then hopefully you get the gig and carry on?
It’s maybe like being on a ship where the Captain is pissed and you have the opportunity to jump ship at a port stop off but you know if you do then you were the only one who was fixing the captain’s navigation errors and so if you leave there is a higher chance the ship hits the rocks and everyone dies.
You can stay and try and stop it and hope that the captain gets replaced or jump ship and save yourself.
A reasonable enough description of the dilemma faced by SKS during the Corbyn years in fairness.
Starmer the valiant hero stayed to save us all and kick Jews out of the Labour party.
Before I get accused of being a fan of Starmer or an anti semite I don't think he is a valiant hero and I am not a fan of his anti Jewish crusade.
Good to see you back. What are your thoughts about Starmer? So far we've only heard from one 'Corbynite' and he seems to have lost it. Hest chants the same mantra every time he appears
I loathe the man so much I may vote Tory to try to play my small part in stopping him.
Thanks Jezziah.
That does help explain how the Conservatives are maintaining a level of support in excess of 30% in most opinion polls.
Don't worry they'll probably be higher when they get the media back onside.
You must just love waking up on a friday morning and finding out the Tories have won again, personally I want them beaten, if SKS is the best chance of doing that I'm with him
I may not have been paying attention, but I've not seen many Confederate Flags around Hove.....perhaps they're in Brighton. I'll have to look out for Columbus Day next year:
TEACHER training slides about racism and 'white supremacy' have been released amid a row about the way children are being taught.
Brighton and Hove City Council released the slides from its "anti-racist schools strategy" in the interest of "transparency" and for "greater public understanding" after initially rejecting a request from a parent to see them.
The council has been accused of telling schools to teach white privilege and inherited racial guilt to children.
Campaigners claim the council's "anti-racist schools strategy" is illegal and creates "confusion, distress and division".
After more than five hours of talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow, there was little doubt Emmanuel Macron walked into the grizzly bear’s den — and he got mauled.
It could be Rishi's last chance to act around now, like early last week. I don't think his chances are going to increase going forward, unless something cataclysmic happens ; and the direction-changing cataclysms, rather than drip-drip like today, seem to have dried up, for the moment.
The problem for Sunak is that he’s made a stand over certain big spending/tax issues recently and I get the impression that he’s actually a man of principle so he has the dilemma that he could walk out and maybe bring down Boris or stay.
If he walks out and it doesn’t bring down Boris then he knows Boris will have a free hand to put in a yes man at the treasury (and he’s going to select his yes man more carefully this time I imagine…) and undo any “sound money” approach.
If he walks and brings down Boris then there is no guarantee he will replace Boris so again runs the risk that his “sound money” attitude might be ignored as a new leader turns on the taps to try and ensure a win at next election.
So if you are a man of principle (which I believe he is) then what do you do, walk away and risk a disaster or stay and manage it as best you can and the. If things change fundamentally re Boris then hopefully you get the gig and carry on?
It’s maybe like being on a ship where the Captain is pissed and you have the opportunity to jump ship at a port stop off but you know if you do then you were the only one who was fixing the captain’s navigation errors and so if you leave there is a higher chance the ship hits the rocks and everyone dies.
You can stay and try and stop it and hope that the captain gets replaced or jump ship and save yourself.
A reasonable enough description of the dilemma faced by SKS during the Corbyn years in fairness.
Starmer the valiant hero stayed to save us all and kick Jews out of the Labour party.
Before I get accused of being a fan of Starmer or an anti semite I don't think he is a valiant hero and I am not a fan of his anti Jewish crusade.
Good to see you back. What are your thoughts about Starmer? So far we've only heard from one 'Corbynite' and he seems to have lost it. Hest chants the same mantra every time he appears
I loathe the man so much I may vote Tory to try to play my small part in stopping him.
What is there to 'loathe' about Starmer? Corbyn, yes, Johnson, yes, but Starmer?
Starmer is now forever linked with Savile. It was a Crosbyesque gamble that looks like it is paying off.
Downing Street are quite cynically doubling down on Johnson's non-apology and Chris Philp spent the morning entwining Starmer and Savile with his support of Johnson's "clarification". Listening to Five Live there was more criticism of Starmer than there was of Johnson.
If Johnson can ride out the next few days he is emboldened and Starmer permanently weakened. Lynton Crosby has done his work.
No I don't think so MP. The association is too far-fetched, unless you already have some kind of agenda.
So you think its far fetched for the DPP to be told about a very famous person being potentially charged with the rape of underage girls who had learning difficulties.
I would be astonished if he was not told about it.
That's a nonsensical inference, Nerys.
Yes of course he is likely to have been kept informed but outside the DPP few would know what the quality of the evidence was and how likely a successful prosecution would have been on the evidence available at that time.
It could be Rishi's last chance to act around now, like early last week. I don't think his chances are going to increase going forward, unless something cataclysmic happens ; and the direction-changing cataclysms, rather than drip-drip like today, seem to have dried up, for the moment.
The problem for Sunak is that he’s made a stand over certain big spending/tax issues recently and I get the impression that he’s actually a man of principle so he has the dilemma that he could walk out and maybe bring down Boris or stay.
If he walks out and it doesn’t bring down Boris then he knows Boris will have a free hand to put in a yes man at the treasury (and he’s going to select his yes man more carefully this time I imagine…) and undo any “sound money” approach.
If he walks and brings down Boris then there is no guarantee he will replace Boris so again runs the risk that his “sound money” attitude might be ignored as a new leader turns on the taps to try and ensure a win at next election.
So if you are a man of principle (which I believe he is) then what do you do, walk away and risk a disaster or stay and manage it as best you can and the. If things change fundamentally re Boris then hopefully you get the gig and carry on?
It’s maybe like being on a ship where the Captain is pissed and you have the opportunity to jump ship at a port stop off but you know if you do then you were the only one who was fixing the captain’s navigation errors and so if you leave there is a higher chance the ship hits the rocks and everyone dies.
You can stay and try and stop it and hope that the captain gets replaced or jump ship and save yourself.
A reasonable enough description of the dilemma faced by SKS during the Corbyn years in fairness.
Starmer the valiant hero stayed to save us all and kick Jews out of the Labour party.
Before I get accused of being a fan of Starmer or an anti semite I don't think he is a valiant hero and I am not a fan of his anti Jewish crusade.
Good to see you back. What are your thoughts about Starmer? So far we've only heard from one 'Corbynite' and he seems to have lost it. Hest chants the same mantra every time he appears
I loathe the man so much I may vote Tory to try to play my small part in stopping him.
Thanks Jezziah.
That does help explain how the Conservatives are maintaining a level of support in excess of 30% in most opinion polls.
Don't worry they'll probably be higher when they get the media back onside.
You must just love waking up on a friday morning and finding out the Tories have won again, personally I want them beaten, if SKS is the best chance of doing that I'm with him
Not noticed you posting before, Mickey, so welcome - and may I say that whatever your politics anyone bearing the moniker of the legendary Chelsea defender starts with my support.
It could be Rishi's last chance to act around now, like early last week. I don't think his chances are going to increase going forward, unless something cataclysmic happens ; and the direction-changing cataclysms, rather than drip-drip like today, seem to have dried up, for the moment.
The problem for Sunak is that he’s made a stand over certain big spending/tax issues recently and I get the impression that he’s actually a man of principle so he has the dilemma that he could walk out and maybe bring down Boris or stay.
If he walks out and it doesn’t bring down Boris then he knows Boris will have a free hand to put in a yes man at the treasury (and he’s going to select his yes man more carefully this time I imagine…) and undo any “sound money” approach.
If he walks and brings down Boris then there is no guarantee he will replace Boris so again runs the risk that his “sound money” attitude might be ignored as a new leader turns on the taps to try and ensure a win at next election.
So if you are a man of principle (which I believe he is) then what do you do, walk away and risk a disaster or stay and manage it as best you can and the. If things change fundamentally re Boris then hopefully you get the gig and carry on?
It’s maybe like being on a ship where the Captain is pissed and you have the opportunity to jump ship at a port stop off but you know if you do then you were the only one who was fixing the captain’s navigation errors and so if you leave there is a higher chance the ship hits the rocks and everyone dies.
You can stay and try and stop it and hope that the captain gets replaced or jump ship and save yourself.
A reasonable enough description of the dilemma faced by SKS during the Corbyn years in fairness.
Starmer the valiant hero stayed to save us all and kick Jews out of the Labour party.
Before I get accused of being a fan of Starmer or an anti semite I don't think he is a valiant hero and I am not a fan of his anti Jewish crusade.
Good to see you back. What are your thoughts about Starmer? So far we've only heard from one 'Corbynite' and he seems to have lost it. Hest chants the same mantra every time he appears
I loathe the man so much I may vote Tory to try to play my small part in stopping him.
Thanks Jezziah.
That does help explain how the Conservatives are maintaining a level of support in excess of 30% in most opinion polls.
Don't worry they'll probably be higher when they get the media back onside.
You must just love waking up on a friday morning and finding out the Tories have won again, personally I want them beaten, if SKS is the best chance of doing that I'm with him
Well fingers crossed, haven't had the chance to vote Tory yet to love waking up to the successful Tory result but here's hoping I am onto a winner. I am not sure the incredible squeak will win and TBH if he is just going to be a Tory then I don't really see the point in just not sticking with the Tories but I hope you get whatever it is you want out of it.
Sadly its not all over yet. They have done flawless testing of the self-contained bit. The bugger is integrating Crossrail's CBTC signalling with existing TPWS / AWS signalling and the new ETCS signalling on the Heathrow section.
Making the various computer systems interface with each other is a bugger, which is why Crossrail won't go to Heathrow or Reading or Shenfield any time soon.
Just getting it going in central london - finally - linking the wharf with padders - will be huge.
That article says the whole show should be up and running entirely by 2023
Fantastic news for London and – as you say – a much needed boost for the world's greatest city.
The northern moans rather miss the point – this project can and should be a source of national pride.
I may not have been paying attention, but I've not seen many Confederate Flags around Hove.....perhaps they're in Brighton. I'll have to look out for Columbus Day next year:
TEACHER training slides about racism and 'white supremacy' have been released amid a row about the way children are being taught.
Brighton and Hove City Council released the slides from its "anti-racist schools strategy" in the interest of "transparency" and for "greater public understanding" after initially rejecting a request from a parent to see them.
The council has been accused of telling schools to teach white privilege and inherited racial guilt to children.
Campaigners claim the council's "anti-racist schools strategy" is illegal and creates "confusion, distress and division".
I may not have been paying attention, but I've not seen many Confederate Flags around Hove.....perhaps they're in Brighton. I'll have to look out for Columbus Day next year:
TEACHER training slides about racism and 'white supremacy' have been released amid a row about the way children are being taught.
Brighton and Hove City Council released the slides from its "anti-racist schools strategy" in the interest of "transparency" and for "greater public understanding" after initially rejecting a request from a parent to see them.
The council has been accused of telling schools to teach white privilege and inherited racial guilt to children.
Campaigners claim the council's "anti-racist schools strategy" is illegal and creates "confusion, distress and division".
It's quite impressive! Will be useful for getting from the square mile to other bits of London quickly.
I’m not sure what that guy means about Heathrow being “badly connected to London”.
This is nonsense. If you land at the refurbed T3 you can drop down to the gleaming Heathrow Express which will whisk you, in comfort, to central London (and Paddington) in 15 minutes
How many great cities have a main airport that well connected? Hong Kong. Singapore. Is that it? Dubai doesn’t count - it’s not a great city
And now with the Liz Line you’ll be able to go from Heathrow to the City in 25 minutes…
Heathrow is a bit of a dog's breakfast though. Heathrow Express is good but dumps you at Paddington which is a lovely station but not exactly central. This will improve things considerably and bring LHR more into line with a host of other great cities. It's a bit much to suggest Dubai isn't a great city. Perhaps not for a dilettantish tourist but as a business hub it's obviously a great city. KL has for years had a superb line (the KLIA Expres) and so on and so on.
Heathrow itself is just a bit of a mess. Boris was probably right that we needed a brand new airport on the other side of town. Would have been amazing but ridiculously expensive.
I disagree on almost all of this. For such a big old airport in such a massive world city Heathrow is way way more than a “dog’s breakfast”
Sure, it’s not Changi. But nowhere is. Sure, if you were starting from scratch you wouldn’t do it this way
But it is, for a start, almost perfectly located - this is the nation’s main airport as well as London’s. You could maybe argue that it would be slightly better if it was north of london - ie where Luton is - but it is still highly accessible for most of the UK. Near the M25. Off the M4. Very close to central london (unlike somewhere such as KL). Boris airport in the isle of Sheppey wouid have been stupidly remote for 80% of the UK
With its refurbs the terminals now sparkle - T3 and T5 are great (T5 has been voted the best terminal in the world)
The Heathrow express takes you to Paddington in 15 mins. And that is central london. Compare that with, say, JFK or LAX. There are also bus, tube and cab links. And now the Liz Line will make it even more accessible
It’s a great airport despite its legacy problems. The difficulty of expansion is the issue for the future
Nah. Heathrow is a mess and it's pretty grotty. I mean, I like travelling from it but it doesn't compare with the world's great airports: it has been left far, far, behind.
Paddington is not at all central. I love it and it's great but it's out on the west of London and a bit of a faff to reach from the centre.
Dubai is a wonderful airport but so is Abu Dhabi now. Most people are really critical of T5. I actually happen not to be but most of my traveller friends, including pilots, think it's by now tired and grotty. I can see their point tbh. It's been left far, far, behind.
KLIA to Sentral Station takes 28 minutes so I've no idea what you're on about and the motorway links are much better.
Which leads me to the real Achilles heel of LHR: the Heathrow Spur. The road system around and into Heathrow is a complete mess and frequently jams. I grant you that JFK and LAX are worse but, bloody hell, if you're comparing Britain with America on airports (or airlines) then you have set the bar extremely low. Part of the problem is that the M25 and M4 simply cannot hold the capacity and that junction 15 is a godawful mess. I assume you never use it from your comments.
It's to the East we should look for the great airports of the world. I can list you half a dozen finer airports and better transport infrastructure. Extend that to the middle east and we're approaching a dozen. Just way way better: cleaner, slicker, faster.
Er what? In what way is LHR a "bit of a mess"? T5 is great and other terminals are being done up. The Tube to central/west/north London is great for accessing much of the city without faffing around with cabs and traffic as in other major cities.
I rarely visit an airport that is much better in terms of dining and general facilities – okay SIN but the Butterfly Garden is creepily weird.
It's quite impressive! Will be useful for getting from the square mile to other bits of London quickly.
I’m not sure what that guy means about Heathrow being “badly connected to London”.
This is nonsense. If you land at the refurbed T3 you can drop down to the gleaming Heathrow Express which will whisk you, in comfort, to central London (and Paddington) in 15 minutes
How many great cities have a main airport that well connected? Hong Kong. Singapore. Is that it? Dubai doesn’t count - it’s not a great city
And now with the Liz Line you’ll be able to go from Heathrow to the City in 25 minutes…
Heathrow is a bit of a dog's breakfast though. Heathrow Express is good but dumps you at Paddington which is a lovely station but not exactly central. This will improve things considerably and bring LHR more into line with a host of other great cities. It's a bit much to suggest Dubai isn't a great city. Perhaps not for a dilettantish tourist but as a business hub it's obviously a great city. KL has for years had a superb line (the KLIA Expres) and so on and so on.
Heathrow itself is just a bit of a mess. Boris was probably right that we needed a brand new airport on the other side of town. Would have been amazing but ridiculously expensive.
I disagree on almost all of this. For such a big old airport in such a massive world city Heathrow is way way more than a “dog’s breakfast”
Sure, it’s not Changi. But nowhere is. Sure, if you were starting from scratch you wouldn’t do it this way
But it is, for a start, almost perfectly located - this is the nation’s main airport as well as London’s. You could maybe argue that it would be slightly better if it was north of london - ie where Luton is - but it is still highly accessible for most of the UK. Near the M25. Off the M4. Very close to central london (unlike somewhere such as KL). Boris airport in the isle of Sheppey wouid have been stupidly remote for 80% of the UK
With its refurbs the terminals now sparkle - T3 and T5 are great (T5 has been voted the best terminal in the world)
The Heathrow express takes you to Paddington in 15 mins. And that is central london. Compare that with, say, JFK or LAX. There are also bus, tube and cab links. And now the Liz Line will make it even more accessible
It’s a great airport despite its legacy problems. The difficulty of expansion is the issue for the future
Nah. Heathrow is a mess and it's pretty grotty. I mean, I like travelling from it but it doesn't compare with the world's great airports: it has been left far, far, behind.
Paddington is not at all central. I love it and it's great but it's out on the west of London and a bit of a faff to reach from the centre.
Dubai is a wonderful airport but so is Abu Dhabi now. Most people are really critical of T5. I actually happen not to be but most of my traveller friends, including pilots, think it's by now tired and grotty. I can see their point tbh. It's been left far, far, behind.
KLIA to Sentral Station takes 28 minutes so I've no idea what you're on about and the motorway links are much better.
Which leads me to the real Achilles heel of LHR: the Heathrow Spur. The road system around and into Heathrow is a complete mess and frequently jams. I grant you that JFK and LAX are worse but, bloody hell, if you're comparing Britain with America on airports (or airlines) then you have set the bar extremely low. Part of the problem is that the M25 and M4 simply cannot hold the capacity and that junction 15 is a godawful mess. I assume you never use it from your comments.
It's to the East we should look for the great airports of the world. I can list you half a dozen finer airports and better transport infrastructure. Extend that to the middle east and we're approaching a dozen. Just way way better: cleaner, slicker, faster.
Jeeps. I've not even mentioned Doha which is the airport I use most frequently.
An absolutely stunning airport. A thousand times better than Heathrow.
In the sandpit. Doha is a not a great world city and nor is Dubai. Comparing airports in new purpose-built cities with handlers in complex Old World metropolises is just silly.
Tomorrow will be day 10 of this ongoing clusterfuck
I don't think they want to be reminded of that
In this case Starmer would be wise to move on
The Savile slur will only have any traction with voters who would never vote for Starmer in a million years.
Its impact is vastly reduced because most voters have now pegged Johnson as a compulsive liar. If May had said such such a thing it would have gained more traction, but I doubt she would have dreamed of stooping so low.
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,661; Fieldwork: 1-2 February 2022)
The South findings repeat previous surveys with added emphasis, and present a tactical voting problem. There are seats where it's obvious that the LibDems are close behind the Conservatives and the Labour vote will swing over heavily. But if you have a seat with a result like Con 40 LD 34 Lab 26, then it may well be that Labour is better-poised to take the seat, not least as that 34 will already have some tactical voting. In those seats I think the tacit deal to defer to each other will just break down. We probably need to accept that it'll work in most places but in some it just won't, and bar chart frenzy will be the order of the day.
In Scotland, I wonder if the Tory leadership's separation from Johnson is doing them some good, both directly because voters tend to agree and indirectly because it shows they're not puppets of London.
Spot on with your second paragraph Nick. Douglas Ross and his entire Holyrood team played an absolute blinder. Unanimously calling for Johnson to resign. It is definitely buoying them. For now…
SCon will have a real problem if Boris is still leader at the time of the next GE, but they should be able to ride out this year's local elections OK. Still the Go To party for the unionist anti-SNP voter given SLAB's inability to get off the floor and the lack of profile of the LibDems in much of Scotland.
I think SLab, SLD and Greens are likely to exceed expectations. SCons likely to be a little disappointed, but no collapse. Glasgow will determine how the BBC and other media report the results. A bit unfair that just 1 out of 32 results is deemed to be so important, but they know their audience.
I think you're right about Glasgow. Hugely symbolic. Home town of Sturgeon and Sarwar. Controversial council leader. Nice fat ongoing controversy in the form of litter and rats. Think SNP could under-perform here while doing fine elsewhere.
I think that's right. Realistic aim for SLab under Sarwar is to be the largest party in East Lothian, Glasgow and North Lanarkshire and nose back into 2nd place in terms of councillors .
I still think the Tories will hold up a lot better than expected though (and could even gain seats on some councils like Aberdeenshire on a good night considering they undernominated last time).
I also think the SNP will underperform expectations but will still make a very modest gain on votes and seats from last time.
Comments
Yes, not all websites will comply (obviously). But I am quite sure that the big players will. That will put off *some* under 18s. And I do think it is a real issue at the moment.
What he did, in my view, is far worse than what Johnson did. Yet the reactions are totally different.
People went to their graves with these allegations from Carl Beech hanging over them and yet there are people on the labour side who still think Watson deserves a place in the Lords.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-49090450
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49086717
Even Johnson sure plenty to criticise but in comparison to Starmer, I'd have a lifetime of Johnson over a minute of Starmer.
Tomorrow will be day 10 of this ongoing clusterfuck
I don't think they want to be reminded of that
The original justification for the destruction of records was that they take up space. In the age of electronic record keeping, not so much. A relative who tuns a business pays for a service that scans paperwork - everything over a certain age goes into it. He also (being IT minded) then runs OCR to create a search index.
It won’t stop the problem, will make millions of legitimate users jump through hoops (or deploy the same evasion tactics as the teenagers), and will generate a database of ID ready to be compromised for use in theft or fraud.
In terms of the database aspect, I would need to look at the implementation details.
The whole issue is utterly insane because
1) VPN networks now advertise on TV so it's not exactly going to be difficult to bypass it
2) most websites aren't hosted in the UK and simply won't care.
And those that will care will only do so because their owner is the person making the money on the registration.
TEACHER training slides about racism and 'white supremacy' have been released amid a row about the way children are being taught.
Brighton and Hove City Council released the slides from its "anti-racist schools strategy" in the interest of "transparency" and for "greater public understanding" after initially rejecting a request from a parent to see them.
The council has been accused of telling schools to teach white privilege and inherited racial guilt to children.
Campaigners claim the council's "anti-racist schools strategy" is illegal and creates "confusion, distress and division".
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19906377.brighton-council-fire-teacher-training-racism/
“I thank the right honourable gentleman for the opportunity to set the record straight, and remind him that he was in charge of prosecutions in England, when the decision was made by his department not to charge Jimmy Savile following allegations by four women, who were not told about the existence of each other’s complaints”
He could probably choose to say more under Privilege, and the story would be leading the news again that the PM said Starmer ‘let off’ Savile.
NEW THREAD
(More seriously, I agree with you. It'll stop some, particularly the younger and those who run into it casually through shared links etc, rather than seeking out porn)
Edit: Obviously some privacy concerns though, I guess, for over 18s. Dealing with that might need some innovative solutions, but there would be ways I should think of doing age verification within those limits - say a system where you log in somewhere, prove age, get a limited time unique but non-identifying code which can then be used to prove age elsewhere. Whether something like that will actually happen is anyone's guess, I suppose...
It boils down to this:
"...if you want to govern a kingdom (or a country) you must first be able to govern yourself. That, of course, is what Johnson’s enablers always knew he could never do."
It won't be enough for the campaigners and lobbyists, of course, they will demand even more measures. They always do
But I can't post apparently. Humph .....
There does seem to be a lot of "Don't worry, it won't/can't happen here" in a lot of organisations. A scandal happens in one organisation, and others ignore it as *they* are different. Until it turns out they are the same.
There is a massive problem with best practices not being spread - perhaps because they are difficult to implement.
There is a fortune to be made pumping out such shite.
* Virtually everyone familiar with the role of the DPP thinks the link is an obvious distraction and pretty disreputable
* Joe Bloggs who hasn't followed it closely probably thinks the Johnson is unscrupulous but there's now a query about Starmer
* A striking number of Tory MPs are really disgusted, possibly to the point of leaving the party
The cynical question is whether the benefit for the Tories in having a bit of mud stick on Starmer and getting some distraction from Partygate is sufficient for the downside of actual defections.
IMO Joe Bloggs won't give it much thought once the immediate debate has moved on, while some MPs will remain alienated, so it's a net negative for the Tories. Using us as a sounding board, I note that only Mexicanpete is impressed.
Yes of course he is likely to have been kept informed but outside the DPP few would know what the quality of the evidence was and how likely a successful prosecution would have been on the evidence available at that time.
The northern moans rather miss the point – this project can and should be a source of national pride.
I rarely visit an airport that is much better in terms of dining and general facilities – okay SIN but the Butterfly Garden is creepily weird.
In the sandpit. Doha is a not a great world city and nor is Dubai. Comparing airports in new purpose-built cities with handlers in complex Old World metropolises is just silly.
If I’m going to central London from Dubai, it’s usually easier and cheaper to fly through AMS into London City.
Its impact is vastly reduced because most voters have now pegged Johnson as a compulsive liar. If May had said such such a thing it would have gained more traction, but I doubt she would have dreamed of stooping so low.
I still think the Tories will hold up a lot better than expected though (and could even gain seats on some councils like Aberdeenshire on a good night considering they undernominated last time).
I also think the SNP will underperform expectations but will still make a very modest gain on votes and seats from last time.