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Supreme Court picks are rarely surprises – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited February 2022 in General
imageSupreme Court picks are rarely surprises – politicalbetting.com

The upcoming departure of Stephen Breyer, the oldest judge on the US Supreme Court and one of three progressive judges, has triggered a frenzy of speculation on who will get the nod to replace him. Ordinarily I avoid markets like this like the plague, since they are so dependent on the whims of a single person whose mind we cannot know. But Supreme Court watchers have become extremely good at this game, and I might make an exception here.

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Comments

  • Confirmation can be an issue, so noteworthy that Lindsey Graham is happy to confirm Michelle Childs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Continuing the comedy issue, I think it is rather interesting that the most watched UK comedian online is a guy called Paul Smith. He is super offensive and not suitable for tv, with a core of his routine absolutely brutally rinsing the audience members.

    I don't particularly like it, I think its often too crude and not particular sophisticated, but has 200 million views online. I am surprised he hasn't had the mob go for him.

    Maybe the London-based commentariat can’t decipher a very thick Scouse accent?
    I have seen a clip where he rinses a guy with cancer, not a hypothetical joke about cancer suffers in the way Carr does, no to a guy sitting in the front row who has cancer. Its totally squeaky bum time watching it to see if the guy himself finds it funny.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    He's done plenty.

    I was at one his shows back in the mid 2000s and he said something like

    'They say there's safety in numbers. Tell that to 6 million Jews.'

    I, and the rest of the audience, felt incredibly guilty for laughing at that.
    He did that one in his greatest hits special, alongside:

    “If only Africa had more mosquito nets, then every year we would could save *millions* of mosquitos from dying needlessly of AIDS”

    And, to a heckler: “If you want my comeback, you’ll have to scrape it off your Mum’s teeth”.
    Never ever heckle Jimmy Carr, it never ends well.

    I've been a huge fan of Jimmy Carr since I first saw him live in 2003.

    His magic for me is making me laugh at things I shouldn't laugh at and spend the rest of the evening feeling guilty for it..
    I used to go to Jongleurs regularly around the turn of the century, the MCs who worked at those clubs were even sharper than Carr in terms of hecklers. It is really what the Paul Smith guy is reviving, albeit he starts by just interacting with people rather than picking out the drunk heckler.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    He's done plenty.

    I was at one his shows back in the mid 2000s and he said something like

    'They say there's safety in numbers. Tell that to 6 million Jews.'

    I, and the rest of the audience, felt incredibly guilty for laughing at that.
    He did that one in his greatest hits special, alongside:

    “If only Africa had more mosquito nets, then every year we would could save *millions* of mosquitos from dying needlessly of AIDS”

    And, to a heckler: “If you want my comeback, you’ll have to scrape it off your Mum’s teeth”.
    Never ever heckle Jimmy Carr, it never ends well.

    I've been a huge fan of Jimmy Carr since I first saw him live in 2003.

    His magic for me is making me laugh at things I shouldn't laugh at and spend the rest of the evening feeling guilty for it..
    One of my favourite responses of his to a heckler was when he had just told a joke about fat people and a heckler shouted “your ‘fat-ist’ “ and he replied “no, you’re the fastest” obviously works better spoken…..
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    He's done plenty.

    I was at one his shows back in the mid 2000s and he said something like

    'They say there's safety in numbers. Tell that to 6 million Jews.'

    I, and the rest of the audience, felt incredibly guilty for laughing at that.
    He did that one in his greatest hits special, alongside:

    “If only Africa had more mosquito nets, then every year we would could save *millions* of mosquitos from dying needlessly of AIDS”

    And, to a heckler: “If you want my comeback, you’ll have to scrape it off your Mum’s teeth”.
    Never ever heckle Jimmy Carr, it never ends well.

    I've been a huge fan of Jimmy Carr since I first saw him live in 2003.

    His magic for me is making me laugh at things I shouldn't laugh at and spend the rest of the evening feeling guilty for it..
    Which is the whole point of his show!

    My three rules for comedy clubs:
    1. Never sit in the front row
    2. Never turn up late
    3. No matter how drunk, don’t shout at the person on stage with the microphone, who is a professional at talking back to people who heckle.

    Favourite return line to a heckler: “I’m getting paid to be here making a c*** of myself in front of a room full of people. What’s your excuse?”
    The funniest one I have witnessed, was Ross Noble gig, guy got up from the front row clearly drunk too much and rather clumsily doing that drunk thing of trying to quietly sneak out but making noise.

    Noble stopped and said I am nearly at the break couldn't you have waited, guy says I can't wait bursting, I'll only be a sec, can you wait.

    Noble says some people seem to think this works like Sky Plus and you can just pause it when you need to go the toilet or make a cuppa. Guy comes back, and he then he acted out like he was a moving Sky Plus, reversing, pausing, fast forwarding.
  • Jimmy Carr for SCOTUS.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited February 2022
    Kamala Harris. Two birds, one stone…
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    He's done plenty.

    I was at one his shows back in the mid 2000s and he said something like

    'They say there's safety in numbers. Tell that to 6 million Jews.'

    I, and the rest of the audience, felt incredibly guilty for laughing at that.
    He did that one in his greatest hits special, alongside:

    “If only Africa had more mosquito nets, then every year we would could save *millions* of mosquitos from dying needlessly of AIDS”

    And, to a heckler: “If you want my comeback, you’ll have to scrape it off your Mum’s teeth”.
    Never ever heckle Jimmy Carr, it never ends well.

    I've been a huge fan of Jimmy Carr since I first saw him live in 2003.

    His magic for me is making me laugh at things I shouldn't laugh at and spend the rest of the evening feeling guilty for it..
    I used to go to Jongleurs regularly around the turn of the century, the MCs who worked at those clubs were even sharper than Carr in terms of hecklers. It is really what the Paul Smith guy is reviving, albeit he starts by just interacting with people rather than picking out the drunk heckler.
    There’s an Amercian guy called Ian Bagg who does the same, will spend an hour just working with the crowd.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MkydWp_5NgQ
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Carr even uploaded his own “Top 20 most offensive” jokes.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZzkTewpzjss

    Enough there to offend absolutely everyone.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Carr even uploaded his own “Top 20 most offensive” jokes.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZzkTewpzjss

    Enough there to offend absolutely everyone.

    Some of those are far "worse" than the holocaust joke that has caused this outrage, including in that link a Jewish gag about the holocaust.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Posted on previous thread, probably too late as usual.

    Just catching up after having friends staying overnight. Congratulations to @MikeSmithson and all PBers who have been in from the start. I believe it’s success has been because even though many of us have strong opinions, we all almost always respect others views, and their right to hold them. Long may it continue!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    Spotify purges 70 Joe Rogan episodes as the defiant host returns to the airwaves: Says 'lockdowns don't work' and tells CNN to 'do better' for trying to get him canceled

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10479127/Spotify-purges-70-Joe-Rogan-episodes-defiant-host-returns-airwaves-Says-lockdowns-dont-work.html

    Some strange episodes in the new list of ones that have got cancelled e.g. Tim Ferriss.

    Also that's fake news from Daily Mail, the "far right ones" ones were never transferred over when he first joined Spotify. This latest 70 are not really the nutter ones.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited February 2022

    Spotify purges 70 Joe Rogan episodes as the defiant host returns to the airwaves: Says 'lockdowns don't work' and tells CNN to 'do better' for trying to get him canceled

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10479127/Spotify-purges-70-Joe-Rogan-episodes-defiant-host-returns-airwaves-Says-lockdowns-dont-work.html

    Some strange episodes in that list of ones that got cancelled e.g. Tim Ferriss.

    Also that's fake news from Daily Mail, the "far right ones" ones were pulled when he first joined Spotify. This latest 70 are not the nutter ones.

    They are all very old, some of them more than a decade old. Mostly podcasts with other comics, which in the olden days were two or three guys smoking weed, drinking beer and putting the world to rights for a couple of hours. They will all be on other platforms still.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Spotify purges 70 Joe Rogan episodes as the defiant host returns to the airwaves: Says 'lockdowns don't work' and tells CNN to 'do better' for trying to get him canceled

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10479127/Spotify-purges-70-Joe-Rogan-episodes-defiant-host-returns-airwaves-Says-lockdowns-dont-work.html

    Some strange episodes in that list of ones that got cancelled e.g. Tim Ferriss.

    Also that's fake news from Daily Mail, the "far right ones" ones were pulled when he first joined Spotify. This latest 70 are not the nutter ones.

    They are all very old, some of them more than a decade old. Mostly podcasts with other comics, which in the olden days were two or three guys smoking weed, drinking beer and putting the world to rights for a couple of hours.
    The only explanation I can think of is that Spotify employees have been going through every single episode and found he has said something they now decided is verboten.

    I can't imagine Ferriss has said anything himself that is extreme. I find him a bit of a BS artist and is into some hippy dippy ideas that lots of silicon valley are into, but he is mainstream tech investor guy who himself just interviews business people.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Sandpit said:

    Spotify purges 70 Joe Rogan episodes as the defiant host returns to the airwaves: Says 'lockdowns don't work' and tells CNN to 'do better' for trying to get him canceled

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10479127/Spotify-purges-70-Joe-Rogan-episodes-defiant-host-returns-airwaves-Says-lockdowns-dont-work.html

    Some strange episodes in that list of ones that got cancelled e.g. Tim Ferriss.

    Also that's fake news from Daily Mail, the "far right ones" ones were pulled when he first joined Spotify. This latest 70 are not the nutter ones.

    They are all very old, some of them more than a decade old. Mostly podcasts with other comics, which in the olden days were two or three guys smoking weed, drinking beer and putting the world to rights for a couple of hours. They will all be on other platforms still.
    Does that the Laurel Canyon massive will come back into Spotify?

    I respect their decision to dissent, but I can’t be arsed changing platforms.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sandpit said:

    Spotify purges 70 Joe Rogan episodes as the defiant host returns to the airwaves: Says 'lockdowns don't work' and tells CNN to 'do better' for trying to get him canceled

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10479127/Spotify-purges-70-Joe-Rogan-episodes-defiant-host-returns-airwaves-Says-lockdowns-dont-work.html

    Some strange episodes in that list of ones that got cancelled e.g. Tim Ferriss.

    Also that's fake news from Daily Mail, the "far right ones" ones were pulled when he first joined Spotify. This latest 70 are not the nutter ones.

    They are all very old, some of them more than a decade old. Mostly podcasts with other comics, which in the olden days were two or three guys smoking weed, drinking beer and putting the world to rights for a couple of hours.
    The only explanation I can think of is that Spotify employees have been going through every single episode and found he has said something they now decided is verboten.
    Indeed. IIRC there were a number of JRE podcasts not uploaded to Spotify in the first place, with ‘cancelled’ people such as Louis CK, Sargon of Akkad, Milo Yiannopolis etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Jimmy Carr for SCOTUS.

    More than their fair share of ageing comedians already.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    OT. Brilliant Any Questions from Northern Ireland.

    More usable quotes than 'Casablanca'
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    Maybe - but I know because I taught it from 1976 until 2009 - and the norm in all of the resources available at the time to reference Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, those with mental health issues, etc.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    Maybe - but I know because I taught it from 1976 until 2009 - and the norm in all of the resources available at the time to reference Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, those with mental health issues, etc.
    That's my point, its taught in school with a reference to this, but 20 years later people forget this and when it comes to say a memorial day or a reason something about the holocaust is offensive the discussion rarely gets past 6 million Jews e.g. Whoopi Goldberg "wasn't about race, leave the whites to fight it out among themselves" comments, Good example of poor level of education / understanding there.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Sandpit said:

    Kamala Harris. Two birds, one stone…

    Bill Kristol's fantasy scenario is for Biden to then nominate Mitt Romney as VP.

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1486398035135549442
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited February 2022
    I wonder if Armando Iannucci reads PB? In today's Guardian, he writes that if the government were a school, Ofsted would have deemed it inadequate and put it in special measures by now. I used precisely this analogy a few days ago on here (though I cited No.10 rather than the government as a whole). The rest of his article is pretty coruscating and worth a read, I think:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/04/gaslight-playbook-corrupt-company-government-sociopath
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Time to watch his dark material before it's pulled
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Pulpstar said:

    Time to watch his dark material before it's pulled

    You can't pull, man. It would give a Phillip to his critics.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Sandpit said:

    Kamala Harris. Two birds, one stone…

    Bill Kristol's fantasy scenario is for Biden to then nominate Mitt Romney as VP.

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1486398035135549442
    Romney's nearly as old as Biden. The whole issue with the Dems is that there's nobody in the middle. The old guard are all getting very old, and the younger generation are either too young, or too crazy, or in the case of AOC both.

    He needs to find a Governor, aged about 50, who is competent, intelligent and coherent. Somebody who will still be young enough to replace him in two years or six.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    Maybe - but I know because I taught it from 1976 until 2009 - and the norm in all of the resources available at the time to reference Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, those with mental health issues, etc.
    That's my point, its taught in school with a reference to this, but 20 years later people forget this and when it comes to say a memorial day or a reason something about the holocaust is offensive the discussion rarely gets past 6 million Jews e.g. Whoopi Goldberg "wasn't about race, leave the whites to fight it out among themselves" comments, Good example of poor level of education / understanding there.
    The Goldberg thing was either disgusting because of the level of ignorance or disgraceful because of the decision to assume race means black.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited February 2022

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    That's probably more likely than peopel just don't know.

    It was brought up specifically in equalities training I did several months ago. About the only surprising thing that came up was reference to Henry the Navigator as the world's first racist, which seems optimistic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467

    Cannot it wait until Boris Johnson has been? Efforts shouldn't be divided.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    Maybe - but I know because I taught it from 1976 until 2009 - and the norm in all of the resources available at the time to reference Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, those with mental health issues, etc.
    That's my point, its taught in school with a reference to this, but 20 years later people forget this and when it comes to say a memorial day or a reason something about the holocaust is offensive the discussion rarely gets past 6 million Jews e.g. Whoopi Goldberg "wasn't about race, leave the whites to fight it out among themselves" comments, Good example of poor level of education / understanding there.
    The Goldberg thing was either disgusting because of the level of ignorance or disgraceful because of the decision to assume race means black.
    Its both. She has a history of this, not just comments over the Jews e.g. she tried to excuse away dog fighting as its something black men do in the South, you whites just don't understand it.

    But her car crash apology she explicitly said that is exactly how see shes race, there are black people and white people.

    Hopefully she might listen and learn.

    But interesting double standards. Sharron Osborne got canned from the same show for saying I know Piers Morgan, he isn't a racist. Goldberg two week time out for moronic comments on the holocaust.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467

    Ah, so it was N-words. Which explains why most of the shows in question were a decade old or more.

    I wonder what 2035’s banned word will be, that people say now without too much thought?

    Funny how there’s literally dozens of N-words in Chapelle’s special though, so we are now at the point where the offensiveness of a word depends on who says it.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    edited February 2022

    I wonder if Armando Iannucci reads PB? In today's Guardian, he writes that if the government were a school, Ofsted would have deemed it inadequate and put it in special measures by now. I used precisely this analogy a few days ago on here (though I cited No.10 rather than the government as a whole). The rest of his article is pretty coruscating and worth a read, I think:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/04/gaslight-playbook-corrupt-company-government-sociopath

    Just great minds think alike.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Sandpit said:

    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467

    Ah, so it was N-words. Which explains why most of the shows in question were a decade old or more.

    I wonder what 2035’s banned word will be, that people say now without too much thought?

    Funny how there’s literally dozens of N-words in Chapelle’s special though, so we are now at the point where the offensiveness of a word depends on who says it.
    I believe that, in itself, has formed the basis of sevearl comedy routines.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Sandpit said:

    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467

    Ah, so it was N-words. Which explains why most of the shows in question were a decade old or more.

    I wonder what 2035’s banned word will be, that people say now without too much thought?

    Funny how there’s literally dozens of N-words in Chapelle’s special though, so we are now at the point where the offensiveness of a word depends on who says it.
    Steak?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    Sandpit said:

    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467

    Ah, so it was N-words. Which explains why most of the shows in question were a decade old or more.

    I wonder what 2035’s banned word will be, that people say now without too much thought?

    Funny how there’s literally dozens of N-words in Chapelle’s special though, so we are now at the point where the offensiveness of a word depends on who says it.
    In all honesty I find Chapelle's usage at times lazy and unnecessary. Chris Rock famous routine of the difference between black people and n####s is a good example of when its usage is necessary and funny.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    Maybe - but I know because I taught it from 1976 until 2009 - and the norm in all of the resources available at the time to reference Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, those with mental health issues, etc.
    That's my point, its taught in school with a reference to this, but 20 years later people forget this and when it comes to say a memorial day or a reason something about the holocaust is offensive the discussion rarely gets past 6 million Jews e.g. Whoopi Goldberg "wasn't about race, leave the whites to fight it out among themselves" comments, Good example of poor level of education / understanding there.
    The Goldberg thing was either disgusting because of the level of ignorance or disgraceful because of the decision to assume race means black.
    Its both. She has a history of this, not just comments over the Jews e.g. she tried to excuse away dog fighting as its something black men do in the South, you whites just don't understand it.

    But her car crash apology she explicitly said that is exactly how see shes race, there are black people and white people.

    Hopefully she might listen and learn.

    But interesting double standards. Sharron Osborne got canned from the same show for saying I know Piers Morgan, he isn't a racist. Goldberg two week time out for moronic comments on the holocaust.
    Although let's face it, anyone defending Morgan probably should be sacked for appalling taste.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sandpit said:

    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467

    Ah, so it was N-words. Which explains why most of the shows in question were a decade old or more.

    I wonder what 2035’s banned word will be, that people say now without too much thought?

    Funny how there’s literally dozens of N-words in Chapelle’s special though, so we are now at the point where the offensiveness of a word depends on who says it.
    In all honesty I find Chapelle's usage at times lazy and unnecessary. Chris Rock famous routine of the difference between black people and n####s is a good example of when its usage is necessary and funny.
    Yes, Chapelle’s use of N… can be a little annoying, in the same way as people who can’t use a sentence without a F-word are annoying.

    Rock’s routine on the use of language is indeed brilliant.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    Maybe - but I know because I taught it from 1976 until 2009 - and the norm in all of the resources available at the time to reference Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, those with mental health issues, etc.
    That's my point, its taught in school with a reference to this, but 20 years later people forget this and when it comes to say a memorial day or a reason something about the holocaust is offensive the discussion rarely gets past 6 million Jews e.g. Whoopi Goldberg "wasn't about race, leave the whites to fight it out among themselves" comments, Good example of poor level of education / understanding there.
    The Goldberg thing was either disgusting because of the level of ignorance or disgraceful because of the decision to assume race means black.
    Its both. She has a history of this, not just comments over the Jews e.g. she tried to excuse away dog fighting as its something black men do in the South, you whites just don't understand it.

    But her car crash apology she explicitly said that is exactly how see shes race, there are black people and white people.

    Hopefully she might listen and learn.

    But interesting double standards. Sharron Osborne got canned from the same show for saying I know Piers Morgan, he isn't a racist. Goldberg two week time out for moronic comments on the holocaust.
    Although let's face it, anyone defending Morgan probably should be sacked for appalling taste.
    She is married to Ozzy Osborne.....I don't think we need to say anymore! The thing is in this case she was bang on, Morgan was being told he couldn't say Megan had told a load of lies in that interview, when it is provable that she did. Now I think Morgan's dislike of Megan seems to go back to her blanking him as a nobody (rather than anything to do with race) and I can't stand his time on GMB, but in this particular case he wasn't wrong.

    In the case of Goldberg comments, the best thing they could have done is not suspend her, rather have somebody on who is an expert on the holocaust and explain why her comments were incorrect. And let the panel ask questions about their presumptions about the history and have them confirmed or corrected. I think it would probably a good thing for the viewers.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    edited February 2022
    Deleted.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    I am a little bit over Boris Johnson hanging around so long now. Can Rishi just promise him a lovely ambassadorship somewhere so that Carrie can continue to be in the presence of sufficient chandeliers and canapes? Sadly he probably wouldn't be too great at it, but he'd be doing it in a smaller sphere. USA or France would probably do it. With apologies to the current incumbents, but their sacrifice would be a worthwhile one.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467

    Ah, so it was N-words. Which explains why most of the shows in question were a decade old or more.

    I wonder what 2035’s banned word will be, that people say now without too much thought?

    Funny how there’s literally dozens of N-words in Chapelle’s special though, so we are now at the point where the offensiveness of a word depends on who says it.
    Steak?
    Nooooooooo!

    I just bought a kilo of the finest dead cow fillet for Valentine’s Day. Life without steak would not be much of a life.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    I am a little bit over Boris Johnson hanging around so long now. Can Rishi just promise him a lovely ambassadorship somewhere so that Carrie can continue to be in the presence of sufficient chandeliers and canapes? Sadly he probably wouldn't be too great at it, but he'd be doing it in a smaller sphere. USA or France would probably do it. With apologies to the current incumbents, but their sacrifice would be a worthwhile one.

    The Philippines? He would probably get on well with Duterte.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Here is a thought.

    If Her Majesty (whose platinum jubilee is tomorrow) makes it to the school summer holiday, she will have the longest confirmed reign of any monarch who acceded to the throne as an adult.

    Already it's the longest reign of anyone who was over the age of 20 at the time they started the reign.
  • Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    ydoethur said:

    Here is a thought.

    If Her Majesty (whose platinum jubilee is tomorrow) makes it to the school summer holiday, she will have the longest confirmed reign of any monarch who acceded to the throne as an adult.

    Already it's the longest reign of anyone who was over the age of 20 at the time they started the reign.

    She loves a good record, I bet.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Here is a thought.

    If Her Majesty (whose platinum jubilee is tomorrow) makes it to the school summer holiday, she will have the longest confirmed reign of any monarch who acceded to the throne as an adult.

    Already it's the longest reign of anyone who was over the age of 20 at the time they started the reign.

    She loves a good record, I bet.
    Cue comments about Radiohead...
  • kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Here is a thought.

    If Her Majesty (whose platinum jubilee is tomorrow) makes it to the school summer holiday, she will have the longest confirmed reign of any monarch who acceded to the throne as an adult.

    Already it's the longest reign of anyone who was over the age of 20 at the time they started the reign.

    She loves a good record, I bet.
    I'll bet she wants to last long enough so her reign isn't bracketed by pm Churchill and pm very poor Churchill impersonator.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
  • Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    ydoethur said:

    Here is a thought.

    If Her Majesty (whose platinum jubilee is tomorrow) makes it to the school summer holiday, she will have the longest confirmed reign of any monarch who acceded to the throne as an adult.

    Already it's the longest reign of anyone who was over the age of 20 at the time they started the reign.


    Another 2 years and 111 days from tomorrow and HM the Queen overtakes Louis XIV and takes the record.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    The point is who is it fine to giggle about genocide of. Jehovah Witnesses, who also suffer plenty of discrimination and the butt of plenty of jokes, not even worth a mention, as part of the outrage over the whole thing.

    Within some circles they have this notion you can't "punch down" in comedy, that is when your joke isn't a joke anymore its just offensive. Which is why Roma can't be joked about, but within these circles there is massive hypocrisy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Here is a thought.

    If Her Majesty (whose platinum jubilee is tomorrow) makes it to the school summer holiday, she will have the longest confirmed reign of any monarch who acceded to the throne as an adult.

    Already it's the longest reign of anyone who was over the age of 20 at the time they started the reign.

    She loves a good record, I bet.
    I'll bet she wants to last long enough so her reign isn't bracketed by pm Churchill and pm very poor Churchill impersonator.
    He could be replaced by a poor Thatcher impersonator.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    ydoethur said:

    I am a little bit over Boris Johnson hanging around so long now. Can Rishi just promise him a lovely ambassadorship somewhere so that Carrie can continue to be in the presence of sufficient chandeliers and canapes? Sadly he probably wouldn't be too great at it, but he'd be doing it in a smaller sphere. USA or France would probably do it. With apologies to the current incumbents, but their sacrifice would be a worthwhile one.

    The Philippines? He would probably get on well with Duterte.
    Not sure Carrie would be too impressed with downtown Manila.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    algarkirk said:

    ydoethur said:

    Here is a thought.

    If Her Majesty (whose platinum jubilee is tomorrow) makes it to the school summer holiday, she will have the longest confirmed reign of any monarch who acceded to the throne as an adult.

    Already it's the longest reign of anyone who was over the age of 20 at the time they started the reign.


    Another 2 years and 111 days from tomorrow and HM the Queen overtakes Louis XIV and takes the record.

    I wasn't even born when she started - still less was Mr Johnson. Which puts his alleged desperation to reach various temporal targets re length of rule into quite a context.
  • The Times and Sunday Times cyberattack ‘linked to China’

    Staff at The Times and The Sunday Times [and Wall Street Journal & New York Post] appear to have been the target of “persistent nation-state attack activity” thought to be linked to China.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-and-sunday-times-hack-linked-to-china-mmlp0cg9h (£££)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    The point is who is it fine to giggle about genocide of. Jehovah Witnesses, who also suffer plenty of discrimination and the butt of plenty of jokes, not even worth a mention, as part of the outrage over the whole thing.
    Did he go on to the other categories?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    They race each other, to see who can be the first to sell a dozen Watchtowers knocking on random doors.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited February 2022
    algarkirk said:

    ydoethur said:

    Here is a thought.

    If Her Majesty (whose platinum jubilee is tomorrow) makes it to the school summer holiday, she will have the longest confirmed reign of any monarch who acceded to the throne as an adult.

    Already it's the longest reign of anyone who was over the age of 20 at the time they started the reign.


    Another 2 years and 111 days from tomorrow and HM the Queen overtakes Louis XIV and takes the record.

    Sure, but that requires some creative list making, for instance to exclude monarchs 'of dependent or constituent states', where some dude was king for 82 years from when he was a baby. She'd need to make it to 107 years old to be completely undisputed (those even longer are already disputed).

    Rulers of Holy Roman Empire states seem to have had a lot of longevity.
  • Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    The point is who is it fine to giggle about genocide of. Jehovah Witnesses, who also suffer plenty of discrimination and the butt of plenty of jokes, not even worth a mention, as part of the outrage over the whole thing.
    Jehovah's Witnesses aren't a race or people. Afaik they were given the 'choice' to renounce their faith (no choice at all of course), Jews and gypsies were not.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited February 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    They race each other, to see who can be the first to sell a dozen Watchtowers knocking on random doors.
    I've not had one try to sell me anything in fairness, just give me info. In one of the lockdowns I had a note pushed through from them instead, with links to videos and learning materials, which I thought was a pretty decent effort to adapt to changing circumstance.
  • kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    They race each other, to see who can be the first to sell a dozen Watchtowers knocking on random doors.
    I've had one try to sell me anything in fairness, just give me info. In one of the lockdowns I had a note pushed through from them instead, with links to videos and learning materials, which I thought was a pretty decent effort to adapt to changing circumstance.
    I had 2 very sweet old ladies who hobbled round every few weeks, I didn't have the heart to rub my brutish atheism in their faces. They haven't been round since the start of Covid, hope they're ok.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    ydoethur said:

    I am a little bit over Boris Johnson hanging around so long now. Can Rishi just promise him a lovely ambassadorship somewhere so that Carrie can continue to be in the presence of sufficient chandeliers and canapes? Sadly he probably wouldn't be too great at it, but he'd be doing it in a smaller sphere. USA or France would probably do it. With apologies to the current incumbents, but their sacrifice would be a worthwhile one.

    The Philippines? He would probably get on well with Duterte.
    Perhaps somewhere like the UAE would work. Not of great strategic importance, but with a nice whiff of 'all because the lady loves milk tray' about it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    They race each other, to see who can be the first to sell a dozen Watchtowers knocking on random doors.
    I've not had one try to sell me anything in fairness, just give me info. In one of the lockdowns I had a note pushed through from them instead, with links to videos and learning materials, which I thought was a pretty decent effort to adapt to changing circumstance.
    Round here they’ve been very enterprising, restoring to hand delivered messages and leaving painted stones around with links to their website.

    The thing to do when they call, I am told, is to invent some reason why you need to go back indoors for a moment, after which you’d be most interested to hear what they have to say, then close the door, and stay indoors.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    @Heidi Allen: Can’t say we didn’t warn you.

    There, said it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    The point is who is it fine to giggle about genocide of. Jehovah Witnesses, who also suffer plenty of discrimination and the butt of plenty of jokes, not even worth a mention, as part of the outrage over the whole thing.
    Jehovah's Witnesses aren't a race or people. Afaik they were given the 'choice' to renounce their faith (no choice at all of course), Jews and gypsies were not.
    Right now they could get the same buzz of rejection by going around canvassing for Boris Johnson.
  • felix said:

    BTW -belated congratulations to PB - been on and off it for many years. My memorial though to posters no longer with us goes to Nichomar - a retiree from Costa Blanca a few hours north from my home - left leaning but pleasant enough - commented much on Covid in the early pandemic days but sdaly succumbed to cancer a year or so ago.

    Yes absolutely felix. Nichomar was one of my favourite posters, even though I didn't often agree with him! He is much missed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    They race each other, to see who can be the first to sell a dozen Watchtowers knocking on random doors.
    I've had one try to sell me anything in fairness, just give me info. In one of the lockdowns I had a note pushed through from them instead, with links to videos and learning materials, which I thought was a pretty decent effort to adapt to changing circumstance.
    I had 2 very sweet old ladies who hobbled round every few weeks, I didn't have the heart to rub my brutish atheism in their faces. They haven't been round since the start of Covid, hope they're ok.
    I admire proseltysers (like other doorknockers) that show enthusiasm, rather than weay resignation, so try to engage a little without just wasting their time.

    I recall an old gag from Stephen Colbert I think describing the Jehovah's Witnesses as your best chance to meet old jamaican women.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467

    I don't want Joe Rogan to be cancelled. I don't like his presentation style, and don't listen to his show even when his guest is someone I should be interested in.

    But if he is cancelled, the effect on the wider world will be zilch in ten years' time. Someone else will take over the role of educating Leon. ;)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited February 2022
    Interesting piece, thanks.

    BTW I recall concerning the forthcomijng NI rise that UKG, as reflected by one of us, rather obviously on orders from CCHQ, was recently pushing the spin of "NI is not a tax but a payment for entitlement to pensions etc" in response to general disgust (on PB as elsewhere) at the targeting of working folk rather than wealthy Tory-voting OAPs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    They race each other, to see who can be the first to sell a dozen Watchtowers knocking on random doors.
    I've not had one try to sell me anything in fairness, just give me info. In one of the lockdowns I had a note pushed through from them instead, with links to videos and learning materials, which I thought was a pretty decent effort to adapt to changing circumstance.
    Round here they’ve been very enterprising, restoring to hand delivered messages and leaving painted stones around with links to their website.

    The thing to do when they call, I am told, is to invent some reason why you need to go back indoors for a moment, after which you’d be most interested to hear what they have to say, then close the door, and stay indoors.
    I think I put out some unknown signal that attracts those looking to preach, as just walking along a street (not a shopping street or something) I was approached by a couple of mormons for a chat one time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    ydoethur said:

    I am a little bit over Boris Johnson hanging around so long now. Can Rishi just promise him a lovely ambassadorship somewhere so that Carrie can continue to be in the presence of sufficient chandeliers and canapes? Sadly he probably wouldn't be too great at it, but he'd be doing it in a smaller sphere. USA or France would probably do it. With apologies to the current incumbents, but their sacrifice would be a worthwhile one.

    The Philippines? He would probably get on well with Duterte.
    Perhaps somewhere like the UAE would work. Not of great strategic importance, but with a nice whiff of 'all because the lady loves milk tray' about it.
    We definitely don’t want her here!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    The point is who is it fine to giggle about genocide of. Jehovah Witnesses, who also suffer plenty of discrimination and the butt of plenty of jokes, not even worth a mention, as part of the outrage over the whole thing.
    Jehovah's Witnesses aren't a race or people. Afaik they were given the 'choice' to renounce their faith (no choice at all of course), Jews and gypsies were not.
    By this logic, jokes of strict Muslim ladies looking like letterboxes is ok because they could always renounce (or take a slightly more liberal interpretation of the Koran).

    Personally, I don't think its funny, because as well as offensive, it just lazy.

    But it comes back to my main point, there is among some who lead the media / comedy industry who openly state, offensive is only ok if you punch up. But among this logic there is massive hypocrisy. Resulting in joke about gypsies getting gassed, outrage headlines, joke about Jehovah Witness also getting gassed and bringing it upon themselves, not even worth a mention as part of the outrage.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    They race each other, to see who can be the first to sell a dozen Watchtowers knocking on random doors.
    I've not had one try to sell me anything in fairness, just give me info. In one of the lockdowns I had a note pushed through from them instead, with links to videos and learning materials, which I thought was a pretty decent effort to adapt to changing circumstance.
    Round here they’ve been very enterprising, restoring to hand delivered messages and leaving painted stones around with links to their website.

    The thing to do when they call, I am told, is to invent some reason why you need to go back indoors for a moment, after which you’d be most interested to hear what they have to say, then close the door, and stay indoors.
    I think I put out some unknown signal that attracts those looking to preach, as just walking along a street (not a shopping street or something) I was approached by a couple of mormons for a chat one time.
    At least the Mormons manage to turn out some decent porn videos. What have the J witnesses ever done for us?
  • One for trainspotters - competition for headquarters of Great British Railways:

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1489894303207985152?s=20&t=_Tb_06dT3XvHkRwrlgQERQ
  • West Ham came from behind to beat the mighty Kidderminster Harriers in extra time.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60266353
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022

    It really is full on get Joe Rogan cancelled...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60270467

    I don't want Joe Rogan to be cancelled. I don't like his presentation style, and don't listen to his show even when his guest is someone I should be interested in.

    But if he is cancelled, the effect on the wider world will be zilch in ten years' time. Someone else will take over the role of educating Leon. ;)
    I think one concern might be that it then allows other up and coming people to also be censored / canned or at the very least not be given the kind of opportunity Rogan has, as then nobody will dare task a risk on similar individuals if they have ever interviewed similarly controversial people.

    We have seen it with social media, this creeping in of who gets a ban, in some cases getting banned having never said anything rule breaking on a particular platform, they just get the blanket un-personing.

    The cancel culture stuff, it isn't about the too big to really cancel people, it the chilling effect among those that don't have 10 millions of listeners / viewers and top notch lawyers to fight everything.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited February 2022

    One for trainspotters - competition for headquarters of Great British Railways:

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1489894303207985152?s=20&t=_Tb_06dT3XvHkRwrlgQERQ

    Good grief, that's taking the failure to make decisions too far!

    Or simply blaming it on the voters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Carnyx said:

    Interesting piece, thanks.

    BTW I recall concerning the forthcomijng NI rise that UKG, as reflected by one of us, rather obviously on orders from CCHQ, was recently pushing the spin of "NI is not a tax but a payment for entitlement to pensions etc" in response to general disgust (on PB as elsewhere) at the targeting of working folk rather than wealthy Tory-voting OAPs.
    There is an easy way to answer the question on UK or Scotland paying pensions after independence.

    How did the matter get arranged when the UK withdrew from its empire?

    In India, the answer was that those who retired before independence were paid by the British. Afterwards, they were paid by the government of the country in question.

    But - that applied to the defined benefit pension for state employees. Not to the state pension which didn't extend to those countries.

    In Ireland - the only place where state pension rules applied - the Irish government had to take them over. And cut them substantially due to their limited financial resources (much more limited than would be available to Scotland).

    I suspect the answer would be the same in Scotland. Public sector schemes that had been taken, would keep being paid by the UK government. The state pension however, both existing and commitment, would be a matter for payment by a new Scottish government.

    Whether that's the way the SNP would frame it in a referendum campaign, I don't know. But if they want to be credible, they would be wise not only to do so but to have a convincing answer as to what they would do to pay for them

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1949/jul/06/indian-services-pensions
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1924-05-01/6/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    One for trainspotters - competition for headquarters of Great British Railways:

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1489894303207985152?s=20&t=_Tb_06dT3XvHkRwrlgQERQ

    Public vote? Rockall confirmed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    One for trainspotters - competition for headquarters of Great British Railways:

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1489894303207985152?s=20&t=_Tb_06dT3XvHkRwrlgQERQ

    The logical place would be one of Crewe or Derby, probably the former. So we can be fairly sure neither will be considered.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    The point is who is it fine to giggle about genocide of. Jehovah Witnesses, who also suffer plenty of discrimination and the butt of plenty of jokes, not even worth a mention, as part of the outrage over the whole thing.
    Jehovah's Witnesses aren't a race or people. Afaik they were given the 'choice' to renounce their faith (no choice at all of course), Jews and gypsies were not.
    By this logic, jokes of strict Muslim ladies looking like letterboxes is ok because they could always renounce (or take a slightly more liberal interpretation of the Koran).

    Personally, I don't think its funny, because as well as offensive, it just lazy.

    But it comes back to my main point, there is among some who lead the media / comedy industry who openly state, offensive is only ok if you punch up. But among this logic there is massive hypocrisy. Resulting in joke about gypsies getting gassed, outrage headlines, joke about Jehovah Witness also getting gassed and bringing it upon themselves, not even worth a mention as part of the outrage.
    The 'punching up vs punching down' thing is relevant, though, don't you think? You can't apply it as some sort of cast-iron rule of comedy - since rules ruin comedy - but it does make a difference.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting piece, thanks.

    BTW I recall concerning the forthcomijng NI rise that UKG, as reflected by one of us, rather obviously on orders from CCHQ, was recently pushing the spin of "NI is not a tax but a payment for entitlement to pensions etc" in response to general disgust (on PB as elsewhere) at the targeting of working folk rather than wealthy Tory-voting OAPs.
    There is an easy way to answer the question on UK or Scotland paying pensions after independence.

    How did the matter get arranged when the UK withdrew from its empire?

    In India, the answer was that those who retired before independence were paid by the British. Afterwards, they were paid by the government of the country in question.

    But - that applied to the defined benefit pension for state employees. Not to the state pension which didn't extend to those countries.

    In Ireland - the only place where state pension rules applied - the Irish government had to take them over. And cut them substantially due to their limited financial resources (much more limited than would be available to Scotland).

    I suspect the answer would be the same in Scotland. Public sector schemes that had been taken, would keep being paid by the UK government. The state pension however, both existing and commitment, would be a matter for payment by a new Scottish government.

    Whether that's the way the SNP would frame it in a referendum campaign, I don't know. But if they want to be credible, they would be wise not only to do so but to have a convincing answer as to what they would do to pay for them

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1949/jul/06/indian-services-pensions
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1924-05-01/6/
    Mm, that's interesting too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited February 2022
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    The point is who is it fine to giggle about genocide of. Jehovah Witnesses, who also suffer plenty of discrimination and the butt of plenty of jokes, not even worth a mention, as part of the outrage over the whole thing.
    Jehovah's Witnesses aren't a race or people. Afaik they were given the 'choice' to renounce their faith (no choice at all of course), Jews and gypsies were not.
    By this logic, jokes of strict Muslim ladies looking like letterboxes is ok because they could always renounce (or take a slightly more liberal interpretation of the Koran).

    Personally, I don't think its funny, because as well as offensive, it just lazy.

    But it comes back to my main point, there is among some who lead the media / comedy industry who openly state, offensive is only ok if you punch up. But among this logic there is massive hypocrisy. Resulting in joke about gypsies getting gassed, outrage headlines, joke about Jehovah Witness also getting gassed and bringing it upon themselves, not even worth a mention as part of the outrage.
    The 'punching up vs punching down' thing is relevant, though, don't you think? You can't apply it as some sort of cast-iron rule of comedy - since rules ruin comedy - but it does make a difference.
    No not necessarily. It depends what your act is. As I mentioned on previous thread one of the biggest comics in terms of online views, a huge chunk of his act is punching down on people in the audience, he just shreds them, anything about their appearance, their job, their life situation, he will spend 5 minutes looking for something to hit you with.

    Carr's act is he takes an innocent sounding line and twists into something offensive punchline, touching on some really taboo subjects. I am not his biggest fan, but that's his act. To then go he did a gag about the gypsies that just not on, punching down....have you seen his catalogue of work! Its not exactly exclusively punching up. And there is hypocrisy in the outrage, where gypsies not on, saying a minority religious group probably brought it upon themselves, not worth a mention, because Jehovah Witness, its a certain type of religious belief the wider establishment are ok ripping the shit out of them as they see them as some weirdos (same with Morons).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited February 2022
    ydoethur said:

    One for trainspotters - competition for headquarters of Great British Railways:

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1489894303207985152?s=20&t=_Tb_06dT3XvHkRwrlgQERQ

    The logical place would be one of Crewe or Derby, probably the former. So we can be fairly sure neither will be considered.
    Remember what happened when they tried that for the name of the RRS Discovery replacement? What will probably happen is it ends up being put somewhere like Crewe and the winner in the popular vote, perhaps Llanfair P. G. or Wick, will get a plastic garden shed instead. But even then they've rather unsportingly spoilt it by offering only 'finalists' to choose from. Like Tory MPs trying to restrict the choice of party members in the current situation.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36225652
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting piece, thanks.

    BTW I recall concerning the forthcomijng NI rise that UKG, as reflected by one of us, rather obviously on orders from CCHQ, was recently pushing the spin of "NI is not a tax but a payment for entitlement to pensions etc" in response to general disgust (on PB as elsewhere) at the targeting of working folk rather than wealthy Tory-voting OAPs.
    There is an easy way to answer the question on UK or Scotland paying pensions after independence.

    How did the matter get arranged when the UK withdrew from its empire?

    In India, the answer was that those who retired before independence were paid by the British. Afterwards, they were paid by the government of the country in question.

    But - that applied to the defined benefit pension for state employees. Not to the state pension which didn't extend to those countries.

    In Ireland - the only place where state pension rules applied - the Irish government had to take them over. And cut them substantially due to their limited financial resources (much more limited than would be available to Scotland).

    I suspect the answer would be the same in Scotland. Public sector schemes that had been taken, would keep being paid by the UK government. The state pension however, both existing and commitment, would be a matter for payment by a new Scottish government.

    Whether that's the way the SNP would frame it in a referendum campaign, I don't know. But if they want to be credible, they would be wise not only to do so but to have a convincing answer as to what they would do to pay for them

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1949/jul/06/indian-services-pensions
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1924-05-01/6/
    Pensions should be split like any other UK government obligation such as the national debt, i.e. according to population or GDP. So that means that Scotland would pay about 8% of the total legacy UK obligation going forward.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited February 2022
    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting piece, thanks.

    BTW I recall concerning the forthcomijng NI rise that UKG, as reflected by one of us, rather obviously on orders from CCHQ, was recently pushing the spin of "NI is not a tax but a payment for entitlement to pensions etc" in response to general disgust (on PB as elsewhere) at the targeting of working folk rather than wealthy Tory-voting OAPs.
    There is an easy way to answer the question on UK or Scotland paying pensions after independence.

    How did the matter get arranged when the UK withdrew from its empire?

    In India, the answer was that those who retired before independence were paid by the British. Afterwards, they were paid by the government of the country in question.

    But - that applied to the defined benefit pension for state employees. Not to the state pension which didn't extend to those countries.

    In Ireland - the only place where state pension rules applied - the Irish government had to take them over. And cut them substantially due to their limited financial resources (much more limited than would be available to Scotland).

    I suspect the answer would be the same in Scotland. Public sector schemes that had been taken, would keep being paid by the UK government. The state pension however, both existing and commitment, would be a matter for payment by a new Scottish government.

    Whether that's the way the SNP would frame it in a referendum campaign, I don't know. But if they want to be credible, they would be wise not only to do so but to have a convincing answer as to what they would do to pay for them

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1949/jul/06/indian-services-pensions
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1924-05-01/6/
    Pensions should be split like any other UK government obligation such as the national debt, i.e. according to population or GDP. So that means that Scotland would pay about 8% of the total legacy UK obligation going forward.
    The interesting thing about this entire discussion on PB is that nobody seems to have spotted the implications for the impact on rUK voters - the demonstration that your decades of payments to HMG are worthless in terms of any actual obligation, despite marketing by successive governments of all shades as an insurance policy for your old age. It will need some tricky spin to get round that rather obvious point. So that is an incentive for HMG to negotiate something such as you say.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting piece, thanks.

    BTW I recall concerning the forthcomijng NI rise that UKG, as reflected by one of us, rather obviously on orders from CCHQ, was recently pushing the spin of "NI is not a tax but a payment for entitlement to pensions etc" in response to general disgust (on PB as elsewhere) at the targeting of working folk rather than wealthy Tory-voting OAPs.
    There is an easy way to answer the question on UK or Scotland paying pensions after independence.

    How did the matter get arranged when the UK withdrew from its empire?

    In India, the answer was that those who retired before independence were paid by the British. Afterwards, they were paid by the government of the country in question.

    But - that applied to the defined benefit pension for state employees. Not to the state pension which didn't extend to those countries.

    In Ireland - the only place where state pension rules applied - the Irish government had to take them over. And cut them substantially due to their limited financial resources (much more limited than would be available to Scotland).

    I suspect the answer would be the same in Scotland. Public sector schemes that had been taken, would keep being paid by the UK government. The state pension however, both existing and commitment, would be a matter for payment by a new Scottish government.

    Whether that's the way the SNP would frame it in a referendum campaign, I don't know. But if they want to be credible, they would be wise not only to do so but to have a convincing answer as to what they would do to pay for them

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1949/jul/06/indian-services-pensions
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1924-05-01/6/
    Interesting. The easier answer is, where there is actually a pot, a fund, or other description of money specifically set aside or invested to pay pensions, then they will be paid from whoever manages said money.

    Where there is no pot, and current pensions are paid by the government out of current revenue, then those in Scotland will be paid by Scotland, and those in the UK by the UK governments.

    I suspect that the UK gov might allow people to move to the UK from Scotland, and be paid UK pensions if they do.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting piece, thanks.

    BTW I recall concerning the forthcomijng NI rise that UKG, as reflected by one of us, rather obviously on orders from CCHQ, was recently pushing the spin of "NI is not a tax but a payment for entitlement to pensions etc" in response to general disgust (on PB as elsewhere) at the targeting of working folk rather than wealthy Tory-voting OAPs.
    There is an easy way to answer the question on UK or Scotland paying pensions after independence.

    How did the matter get arranged when the UK withdrew from its empire?

    In India, the answer was that those who retired before independence were paid by the British. Afterwards, they were paid by the government of the country in question.

    But - that applied to the defined benefit pension for state employees. Not to the state pension which didn't extend to those countries.

    In Ireland - the only place where state pension rules applied - the Irish government had to take them over. And cut them substantially due to their limited financial resources (much more limited than would be available to Scotland).

    I suspect the answer would be the same in Scotland. Public sector schemes that had been taken, would keep being paid by the UK government. The state pension however, both existing and commitment, would be a matter for payment by a new Scottish government.

    Whether that's the way the SNP would frame it in a referendum campaign, I don't know. But if they want to be credible, they would be wise not only to do so but to have a convincing answer as to what they would do to pay for them

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1949/jul/06/indian-services-pensions
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1924-05-01/6/
    The Irish example is a good one and I suspect what you suggest as the criteria is what the U.K. Government goes with as well as it could point to a historical precedent to follow.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Jimmy Carr outrage now is even stranger, not only has the show been out 6 weeks, it was the most streamed UK stand-up special of 2021

    https://www.comedy.co.uk/tv/news/6694/2021-stand-up-streaming-stats/

    Its not like somebody just found a tweet from 10 years ago on a secondary account before they became famous.

    Is it really any surprise, that a famously risqué comic’s show, called His Dark Material might end up offending someone or other?

    Sadly these days, too many people are out looking for reasons to be offended. Watching comedy specials kept me and millions of others sane during the pandemic.
    At least with the outrage twitter bus over Chapelle, the outrage started the day after it was released, not 6 weeks after millions appeared to have watched it over Christmas and seemed unmoved.
    Perhaps the people who find Carr's gypsy gag ball achingly unfunny and unpleasant don't tend to watch Carr or specifically that show, and it's only come to their attention now. Me for example.
    I think its highly unlikely nobody in the media who are leading the frothing over this didn't watch it. For starters for a lot of them, its their job to be watching this.

    As for the wider public, its very simple, don't watch him. I personally can take or leave him, some of the jokes are good, some I don't care for and thus on balance I don't tend to rush to watch his gigs.
    It would be interesting to see how many lovers of free speech would remain if Carr had formulated a similar joke where Jews were the butt. Afaics the principle would be precisely the same, except the free speech upholders and Carr would have to have a deal more courage of their convictions.
    I would be surprised if he hasn't done a Jewish joke at some point.

    In the context of this joke, the whole point is he explains the construct for the joke (which is clipped out) and part of the reason it works (in his mind) is that most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated. It is the switcharoo, that doesn't work if you just say Jews getting killed was a positive.
    Most people don't know it wasn't just the Jews getting exterminated? It's a theory..

    You will be surprised how uneducated most people are. I think it is probably more accurate to say not that they don't know, but forget, as 99% of the time holocaust is only mentioned in terms of Jews.
    I think a sad truth in this kerfuffle, not afaik mentioned by the 'yebbut you've got to see the CONTEXT' lads, is that though the world has largely moved on from seeing Jews as money obsessed lesser beings who were asking for it, and the attempt to wipe them from the face of the earth was so heinous jokes about it are ill advised, we can still have a good giggle at genocide against gypsies. I may be wrong but don't feel that this was the point Carr was trying to make.
    Funny you should say that...the full bit, again not getting any attention, he then spins it into Jehovah's Witnesses, they are forever going around knocking on people's doors pissing them off pushing their watch tower magazine. So saying Jehovah Witnesses had it coming, not even getting a single mention.
    I was unaware of the Jehovah Witness race.
    The point is who is it fine to giggle about genocide of. Jehovah Witnesses, who also suffer plenty of discrimination and the butt of plenty of jokes, not even worth a mention, as part of the outrage over the whole thing.
    Jehovah's Witnesses aren't a race or people. Afaik they were given the 'choice' to renounce their faith (no choice at all of course), Jews and gypsies were not.
    By this logic, jokes of strict Muslim ladies looking like letterboxes is ok because they could always renounce (or take a slightly more liberal interpretation of the Koran).

    Personally, I don't think its funny, because as well as offensive, it just lazy.

    But it comes back to my main point, there is among some who lead the media / comedy industry who openly state, offensive is only ok if you punch up. But among this logic there is massive hypocrisy. Resulting in joke about gypsies getting gassed, outrage headlines, joke about Jehovah Witness also getting gassed and bringing it upon themselves, not even worth a mention as part of the outrage.
    The 'punching up vs punching down' thing is relevant, though, don't you think? You can't apply it as some sort of cast-iron rule of comedy - since rules ruin comedy - but it does make a difference.
    I'm not sure how relevant it can be, when as you note it couldn't reasonably be cast iron anyway. Would it magically make some comedy more worthy because of the target? Obviously not. In which case even if many comic routines might not focus on the 'punching down', is a relevant goal?

    Deliberately offensive comedy - which is hard to pull off but can be very funny - would rely on not following such an approach, but even more mainstream stuff would have the opportunity, as otherwise you're removing a lot of possible comedic avenues.

    My concern would be a suspicion whose explicit goal is punching up vs punching down as some kind of moral position, might well have a rather strange view of who comprises those targets of up and down.
  • Carnyx said:

    One for trainspotters - competition for headquarters of Great British Railways:

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1489894303207985152?s=20&t=_Tb_06dT3XvHkRwrlgQERQ

    Good grief, that's taking the failure to make decisions too far!

    Or simply blaming it on the voters.
    As ever, it’s “advisory”.

    My favourite Great British response was to the Labour governments call to come up with a slogan for modern Britain. My favourite was “Fatso, dipso, ASBO, Tesco”.

    Needless to say they didn’t take it any further.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited February 2022
    RobD said:

    One for trainspotters - competition for headquarters of Great British Railways:

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1489894303207985152?s=20&t=_Tb_06dT3XvHkRwrlgQERQ

    Public vote? Rockall confirmed.
    A public vote for the headquarters of a company? This Government has jumped the shark.

    The sane choice would be Doncaster as there are a whole set of York people who could be relocated or just go for York (which is Network Rails secondary office anyway).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    MrEd said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting piece, thanks.

    BTW I recall concerning the forthcomijng NI rise that UKG, as reflected by one of us, rather obviously on orders from CCHQ, was recently pushing the spin of "NI is not a tax but a payment for entitlement to pensions etc" in response to general disgust (on PB as elsewhere) at the targeting of working folk rather than wealthy Tory-voting OAPs.
    There is an easy way to answer the question on UK or Scotland paying pensions after independence.

    How did the matter get arranged when the UK withdrew from its empire?

    In India, the answer was that those who retired before independence were paid by the British. Afterwards, they were paid by the government of the country in question.

    But - that applied to the defined benefit pension for state employees. Not to the state pension which didn't extend to those countries.

    In Ireland - the only place where state pension rules applied - the Irish government had to take them over. And cut them substantially due to their limited financial resources (much more limited than would be available to Scotland).

    I suspect the answer would be the same in Scotland. Public sector schemes that had been taken, would keep being paid by the UK government. The state pension however, both existing and commitment, would be a matter for payment by a new Scottish government.

    Whether that's the way the SNP would frame it in a referendum campaign, I don't know. But if they want to be credible, they would be wise not only to do so but to have a convincing answer as to what they would do to pay for them

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1949/jul/06/indian-services-pensions
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1924-05-01/6/
    The Irish example is a good one
    Not often the case when it comes to British relations in Ireland in fairness.
  • Welsh Rugby Union Team = Boris Johnson
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting piece, thanks.

    BTW I recall concerning the forthcomijng NI rise that UKG, as reflected by one of us, rather obviously on orders from CCHQ, was recently pushing the spin of "NI is not a tax but a payment for entitlement to pensions etc" in response to general disgust (on PB as elsewhere) at the targeting of working folk rather than wealthy Tory-voting OAPs.
    There is an easy way to answer the question on UK or Scotland paying pensions after independence.

    How did the matter get arranged when the UK withdrew from its empire?

    In India, the answer was that those who retired before independence were paid by the British. Afterwards, they were paid by the government of the country in question.

    But - that applied to the defined benefit pension for state employees. Not to the state pension which didn't extend to those countries.

    In Ireland - the only place where state pension rules applied - the Irish government had to take them over. And cut them substantially due to their limited financial resources (much more limited than would be available to Scotland).

    I suspect the answer would be the same in Scotland. Public sector schemes that had been taken, would keep being paid by the UK government. The state pension however, both existing and commitment, would be a matter for payment by a new Scottish government.

    Whether that's the way the SNP would frame it in a referendum campaign, I don't know. But if they want to be credible, they would be wise not only to do so but to have a convincing answer as to what they would do to pay for them

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1949/jul/06/indian-services-pensions
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1924-05-01/6/
    Pensions should be split like any other UK government obligation such as the national debt, i.e. according to population or GDP. So that means that Scotland would pay about 8% of the total legacy UK obligation going forward.
    As that FAI article makes clear, it's basically all up for negotiation.

    Barnett increases are based on current population, but the baseline on which those increases are placed is not (hence the difference in per capita funding). As England's population increases relative to Scotland, this difference gets bigger.

    It's going to be a mess and will be rolled into all sorts of other stuff, Faslane stays UK territory for 100 years etc
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    algarkirk said:

    ydoethur said:

    Here is a thought.

    If Her Majesty (whose platinum jubilee is tomorrow) makes it to the school summer holiday, she will have the longest confirmed reign of any monarch who acceded to the throne as an adult.

    Already it's the longest reign of anyone who was over the age of 20 at the time they started the reign.


    Another 2 years and 111 days from tomorrow and HM the Queen overtakes Louis XIV and takes the record.

    By which time she'll be meeting a Labour PM again every week 😁
  • Welsh Rugby Union Team = Boris Johnson

    Wait until England are getting bashed up in a couple of hours.
This discussion has been closed.