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Starmer’s approval ratings are heavily influenced by London – politicalbetting.com

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  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    I'm beginning to appreciate this chap Cummings.
  • This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    So you're confirming that pretty much the same thing, with the same format, happened under Cameron. Cameron himself may not have stayed, but nobody is accusing Boris of staying either.
    No, when Dave left, everyone else left, and I'd remind you, Dave hadn't passed laws and regulations banning meeting up and drinking for the country, different times and circumstances.
    That is the key
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    HYUFD said:

    GB News will play God Save the Queen to kick off its live programming every day, starting tomorrow.
    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1483111792511496197?s=20

    Bit weird
    May as well go full Trumpy and go for Star Spangled Banner instead.
    They may as well just give up and apply to become the 51st state. Old England is dead. The colonists won.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    Cozy!
    Cosy.
    You're right.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    kinabalu said:

    The "Boris Question" on the ballot for Tory MPs and members seems to be boiling down to something rather familiar. It's either Leave or Remain & Reform. The latter being that he stays but on the condition he becomes a "Better Boris". Cummings again running the Leave campaign.

    Tories face a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with Rishi, or continued chaos with Boris.
    ISTR strong and stable government has been promised by all the 3 Tory PM'S we have endured over the past 11 years.
    Fool me three times...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    Cozy!
    Cosy.
    You're right.
    You might have been asking for a drum roll
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Endillion said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    I missed it, but have we done Big John admitting the enquiry found that he was guilty of some of the allegations? Though he maintains that the investigator was a kangaroo:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/16/john-bercow-speaker-commons-parliamentary-inquiry-kathryn-stone

    A parliamentary inquiry will conclude that John Bercow, the former Speaker, bullied three House of Commons members of staff, he has revealed, denouncing it as as “kangaroo court”.

    The parliamentary commissioner for standards, Kathryn Stone, has found Bercow guilty on 21 counts out of 35 brought by Robert Lisvane, the former clerk of the Commons, and private secretaries Kate Emms and Angus Sinclair, he told the Sunday Times.

    The former Speaker, who stood down in 2019, said he is appealing against Stone’s ruling, with a final decision expected by the end of the month.

    I linked this report yesterday and Bercow seems to have leaked the report and is appealing

    Should Kathryn Stone confirm her findings post his appeal he faces a lifetime ban from Parliament and the House of Lords

    I assume he will be unique in this respect as I do not know of any speaker receiving this sanction
    During the Commonwealth? IIRC one ran away for a couple of decades, and another one was impeached.
    Restoration, too.
    I quite like the idea of a kangaroo court. Presumably the judge & jury are kangaroos. Who else? The prosecution? defence barristers? Or are they drop bears?
    A criminal court tries criminals, and a family court tries families. So I've always assumed a kangaroo court tries kangaroos.

    I don't know what a civil court does.
    Whatever it does, I’m sure it does it politely.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    dixiedean said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    So you're confirming that pretty much the same thing, with the same format, happened under Cameron. Cameron himself may not have stayed, but nobody is accusing Boris of staying either.
    Yes but. Cameron didn't forbid the rest of the country from doing it.
    Which is the real issue at hand here.
    Yes, I see that, but TSEs point was that there wasn't a drinking culture under Cameron, by providing an account which shows that there was.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Come on Boris, this is done and dusted now. You Got Brexit Done, you got us all vaxxed, you got us all boostered, and you kept us out of Lockdowns 4, 5 and 6 (which Labour would not have done). You have also returned the UK economy to pre-pandemic size (against all expectations, and ahead of Italy Spain and GERMANY)

    It's not a bad record and history will judge you as a transformative if transient PM, way more important than the last three....

    But this is toxic. Time to go. Pretending to send migrants to Lesotho in a non-existent ark is not gonna save you

    Signed, wearily,

    a one time Borisovian
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    dixiedean said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    So you're confirming that pretty much the same thing, with the same format, happened under Cameron. Cameron himself may not have stayed, but nobody is accusing Boris of staying either.
    Yes but. Cameron didn't forbid the rest of the country from doing it.
    Which is the real issue at hand here.
    Yes, I see that, but TSEs point was that there wasn't a drinking culture under Cameron, by providing an account which shows that there was.
    A bottle of wine between 4 is a drinking culture?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Beth Rigby on @SkyNews just reported she now has a second senior source inside No. 10 who backs Cummings' account, that Johnson was warned about the party he claims he knew nothing of and didn't realise was a party. This means PM flat-out lied to Parliament (and to his own MPs). https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1483134113171312641

    That link doesn't say that

    But this does

    https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-lied-to-parliament-about-downing-street-party-dominic-cummings-says-12518606

    Curtains for bojo
    It's over.

    Toast.
    If his mps do not act then they deserve to lose their seats
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    .@SteveBakerHW said his constituents are 'absolutely furious' about partygate and voters may be 'too angry to forgive' https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-17/boris-johnson-will-remain-pm-and-lead-tories-into-next-election-zahawi-says
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    edited January 2022
    Omnium said:



    No Malmsy. If this were real elections in Tory areas who don’t like labour, Libdems would get the votes the opinion polls ain’t acknowledging. I’m sure of it.

    I think I’m sure of it. Pollsters earn money for being clever about this, I need to respect that.

    Well, I'm in a seat (SW Surrey, Hunt's seat) which is classically Tory (53%) but has a vigorous LibDem presence (39%). Labour got 8% last time. The recent MRP poll showed Tories down to 43%, LibDems also down to 29, and Labour up to 22. But I don't think most of this is a Labour surge - what it chiefly shows is the huge extent of tactical voting by people who are actually Labour supporters. Asked in a mid-term poll, they truthfully say they support Labour. At election time, after delivery of 20 LibDem leaflets, many swing tactically. So you're right that there's plenty of potential for LibDem votes where it matters, though not all of them are necessarily devotees of Ed Davey.

    What the LibDems need to do to have a shot at winning seats like this is (a) focus ruthlessly on the winnable seats (b) treat Labour and Green voters in those seats with respect ("Please lend us your votes", not "Your party is hopeless") and (c) try to be quietly helpful in local elections rather than seek to get 100% of the non-Tory seats. Labour should do exactly the same in reverse, and we're all in business.

    I see Ken Livingstone is joining the Greens, by the way.
    And where are NPxMP's politics these days? Have you repented of your Corbyn fascination?

    Vigorous LDs are pretty nasty - I'm sure rentokill can help.
    I remain fond of Jeremy, and would like a Labour programme with meaningful progressive commitments, rather than merely patriotism and stability, nice though those things are. As a trivial example, several higher council tax brackets and one or two lower ones - it is ridiculous that people in houses worth millions only pay just over 3 times someone in a bedsit. We lefties would also like some commitments that aren't that obvious - e.g. foreign aid back at 0.7%.

    I expect some commitments will be along in due course. For now, I'm just enjoying the polling party.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    dixiedean said:

    I'd remind you all that in the run up to GE2015 it was said on here and elsewhere (by respected people) that the Tories needed a lead of 10% in the popular vote to get a majority of 2.

    My boy Dave did it with a 6.5% lead, Scotland was an irrelevance, had Labour won every seat in Scotland, the Tories would have won a majority of 10 instead of 12.

    So I'd be wary of sticking 13% Labour leads into electoral calculus and saying no Labour majority.

    I will eat a pizza with pineapple on it if Labour don't get a majority with a double digit lead.

    Yep. Did it with a small swing TO Labour in E+W as well. UNS really isn't a thing anymore.
    Take the Redfield as example (though it has been called wrong for too low Lib score) Lab Lib Green 59% Tory’s 30%. So in unfair fight of vote lending UNS could fail to call a Tory bloodbath.

    In politics always be aware of those who assure you 1+1 always equals 2.

    PS I got that last line from Baron Noir, anyone else watched that? 🙂
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Beth Rigby on @SkyNews just reported she now has a second senior source inside No. 10 who backs Cummings' account, that Johnson was warned about the party he claims he knew nothing of and didn't realise was a party. This means PM flat-out lied to Parliament (and to his own MPs). https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1483134113171312641

    That link doesn't say that

    But this does

    https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-lied-to-parliament-about-downing-street-party-dominic-cummings-says-12518606

    Curtains for bojo
    It's over.

    Toast.
    If his mps do not act then they deserve to lose their seats
    Which they will. Certainly the newer ones.

    Bye Red Wall Northern Tories.

    Thanks for your contribution.
  • dixiedean said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    So you're confirming that pretty much the same thing, with the same format, happened under Cameron. Cameron himself may not have stayed, but nobody is accusing Boris of staying either.
    Yes but. Cameron didn't forbid the rest of the country from doing it.
    Which is the real issue at hand here.
    Yes, I see that, but TSEs point was that there wasn't a drinking culture under Cameron, by providing an account which shows that there was.
    A glass once every few weeks isn't a drinking culture, one event I went to, there was no drinking, but plenty of singing.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    kinabalu said:

    The "Boris Question" on the ballot for Tory MPs and members seems to be boiling down to something rather familiar. It's either Leave or Remain & Reform. The latter being that he stays but on the condition he becomes a "Better Boris". Cummings again running the Leave campaign.

    Tories face a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with Rishi, or continued chaos with Boris.
    As a leftie, Rishi's the one I fear. I still don't think he will turn it around now but it might be good damage limitation for the tories.

    Liz Truss will be made mincemeat before the electorate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX_DwE7nU6o

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    The "Boris Question" on the ballot for Tory MPs and members seems to be boiling down to something rather familiar. It's either Leave or Remain & Reform. The latter being that he stays but on the condition he becomes a "Better Boris". Cummings again running the Leave campaign.

    Tories face a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with Rishi, or continued chaos with Boris.
    ISTR strong and stable government has been promised by all the 3 Tory PM'S we have endured over the past 11 years.
    Fool me three times...
    To misquote the 1950 Liberal slogan ‘Time we had the LibDems back!’

    Not that it did any good for the then Liberal Party.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Leon said:

    Come on Boris, this is done and dusted now. You Got Brexit Done, you got us all vaxxed, you got us all boostered, and you kept us out of Lockdowns 4, 5 and 6 (which Labour would not have done). You have also returned the UK economy to pre-pandemic size (against all expectations, and ahead of Italy Spain and GERMANY)

    It's not a bad record and history will judge you as a transformative if transient PM, way more important than the last three....

    But this is toxic. Time to go. Pretending to send migrants to Lesotho in a non-existent ark is not gonna save you

    Signed, wearily,

    a one time Borisovian

    Remind him how much money is waiting for him when he shuffles off.

    "Shakespeare: the genius who was nearly as good as me" is still awaiting publication.
  • IanB2 said:

    Writing in his blog, Mr Cummings added further detail about his account of the discussions leading up to the party on 20 May.

    The former advisor claimed that day in 2020 was a "particularly intense shambles" of a day. He alleged Mr Johnson's principal private secretary (PPS), Martin Reynolds, sent out the email inviting 100 staff to "socially distanced drinks in the No 10 garden", but "a very senior official replied by email saying the invite broke the rules".

    After discussing it in private, he claimed the PPS said he would "check with the PM if he's happy for it to go ahead", adding: "I am sure he did check with the PM."

    Mr Cummings said he then challenged Mr Johnson himself. "I said to the PM something like, 'Martin's invited the building to a drinks party, this is what I'm talking about, you've got to grip this madhouse'," he wrote. "The PM waved it aside."

    Bye!

    Just a question now of whether we need a caretaker PM or he will remain in post whilst Sunak is elected.
    Perhaps Boris should say, 'Remember that figure about the NHS on the side of that bus? You can't trust a word Cummings says!'
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    Omnium said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    Cozy!
    Cosy.
    Powell
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    🚨 @BethRigby now has two confirmed Downing St sources confirming PM knew about the Downing St party in May
    🚨 Sue Gray report may be delayed now
    🚨 *All* Tory MPs she’s been speaking to say constituents are furious and are in a worse mood than last week
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1483156617021509636
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Tory MPs need to stop prevaricating and get rid.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    dixiedean said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    So you're confirming that pretty much the same thing, with the same format, happened under Cameron. Cameron himself may not have stayed, but nobody is accusing Boris of staying either.
    Yes but. Cameron didn't forbid the rest of the country from doing it.
    Which is the real issue at hand here.
    Yes, I see that, but TSEs point was that there wasn't a drinking culture under Cameron, by providing an account which shows that there was.
    A glass once every few weeks isn't a drinking culture, one event I went to, there was no drinking, but plenty of singing.
    Indeed not, but since you weren't at every event, and since (I'm guessing here) the events just sort of died when Cameron left, rather than people being formally asked to leave, your account, whilst adding interesting colour, only proves solidly that BYOB was already a thing.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 @BethRigby now has two confirmed Downing St sources confirming PM knew about the Downing St party in May
    🚨 Sue Gray report may be delayed now
    🚨 *All* Tory MPs she’s been speaking to say constituents are furious and are in a worse mood than last week
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1483156617021509636

    I wonder if the real killer wasn't Dom but Her Majesty the Queen. That desperate image of her sitting alone in Westminster Abbey when the Downing St mob had been partying on the eve of his funeral has enraged people: especially the kind of people in the Conservative membership.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 @BethRigby now has two confirmed Downing St sources confirming PM knew about the Downing St party in May
    🚨 Sue Gray report may be delayed now
    🚨 *All* Tory MPs she’s been speaking to say constituents are furious and are in a worse mood than last week
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1483156617021509636

    Gray will keep having to put back her publication date as the new information floods in.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    We just had the Brexiteers in charge, and it was fucking chaos.

    BoZo, the PM who "got Brexit done" will be remembered as fondly as the PM who "got Suez done"
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    It's at least two years since I've encountered anyone so obsessed about Brexit as you still are.

    You mention Brexit in every single post on here.
  • Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    No chance. Firstly the EU don't want us in a hokey-cokey state. Neither do half the people who voted remain.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited January 2022
    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 @BethRigby now has two confirmed Downing St sources confirming PM knew about the Downing St party in May
    🚨 Sue Gray report may be delayed now
    🚨 *All* Tory MPs she’s been speaking to say constituents are furious and are in a worse mood than last week
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1483156617021509636

    I wonder if the real killer wasn't Dom but Her Majesty the Queen. That desperate image of her sitting alone in Westminster Abbey when the Downing St mob had been partying on the eve of his funeral has enraged people: especially the kind of people in the Conservative membership.
    The killer was the end of fear of the pandemic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
    Not really. Cameron got elected in 2014 and called his EU vote in 2016

    Starmer could do the same

    And if we are ever going to Rejoin it need to be sooner rather than later, the more years go by, the more the UK settles into an ex-EU situation, the more theidea of Rejoining seems insane

    I predict this will become quite a burning issue, if Labour retains dazzling polls. Watch the Guardian op-ed pages

    "Time for a Rethink" blah blah blah

    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
  • dixiedean said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    So you're confirming that pretty much the same thing, with the same format, happened under Cameron. Cameron himself may not have stayed, but nobody is accusing Boris of staying either.
    Yes but. Cameron didn't forbid the rest of the country from doing it.
    Which is the real issue at hand here.
    Yes, I see that, but TSEs point was that there wasn't a drinking culture under Cameron, by providing an account which shows that there was.
    A glass once every few weeks isn't a drinking culture, one event I went to, there was no drinking, but plenty of singing.
    Indeed not, but since you weren't at every event, and since (I'm guessing here) the events just sort of died when Cameron left, rather than people being formally asked to leave, your account, whilst adding interesting colour, only proves solidly that BYOB was already a thing.
    I'm still in contact with the people who worked for Dave, they said they never drank like this under Dave's premiership, even when they wanted, they didn't have the time or the energy to do so.

    To cite one example, after the Indyref you would have thought that was a reason for the mother of all benders, nope, they went home and slept, as they didn't have much sleep the month before the vote, once the result was in, their focus turned to the Tory conference which was a week away.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    dixiedean said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    So you're confirming that pretty much the same thing, with the same format, happened under Cameron. Cameron himself may not have stayed, but nobody is accusing Boris of staying either.
    Yes but. Cameron didn't forbid the rest of the country from doing it.
    Which is the real issue at hand here.
    Yes, I see that, but TSEs point was that there wasn't a drinking culture under Cameron, by providing an account which shows that there was.
    A glass once every few weeks isn't a drinking culture, one event I went to, there was no drinking, but plenty of singing.
    Indeed not, but since you weren't at every event, and since (I'm guessing here) the events just sort of died when Cameron left, rather than people being formally asked to leave, your account, whilst adding interesting colour, only proves solidly that BYOB was already a thing.
    Struggling to understand how you come to that perverse conclusion given the evidence TSE has set out.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.


    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
    You're barking. Labour don't have a plan to rejoin. Not anytime in the forseable.

    FFS move on! They have.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    If BoZo the Liar, who got sacked for telling lies, twice, gets defenestrated for telling more lies, then just perhaps some people will come to questions whether his promises over Brexit were not quite as true as he claimed...
  • Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    It's at least two years since I've encountered anyone so obsessed about Brexit as you still are.

    You mention Brexit in every single post on here.
    Tbf he also does aliens, covid origins, wine, holidays, woke and the end of the world.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.


    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
    You're barking. Labour don't have a plan to rejoin. Not anytime in the forseable.

    FFS move on! They have.
    If they could go for free movement and closer trading links that would be enough at this stage.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 @BethRigby now has two confirmed Downing St sources confirming PM knew about the Downing St party in May
    🚨 Sue Gray report may be delayed now
    🚨 *All* Tory MPs she’s been speaking to say constituents are furious and are in a worse mood than last week
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1483156617021509636

    Gray will keep having to put back her publication date as the new information floods in.
    Bojo gone by end Mar has inexplicably lengthened to 4.5. I have topped up and had a microscopic flutter on end jan
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Scott_xP said:

    Beth Rigby on @SkyNews just reported she now has a second senior source inside No. 10 who backs Cummings' account, that Johnson was warned about the party he claims he knew nothing of and didn't realise was a party. This means PM flat-out lied to Parliament (and to his own MPs). https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1483134113171312641

    Not sure that is conclusive proof. The PM will say he always disagreed it was a party, despite the warnings, therefore of course he did not realise it was a party because it wasn't one.

    No-one seems particularly focused that it did not have to be a party to be against the law, it merely had to be not essential for work purposes. I think the open non mandatory invitation in the email is clear proof that the meeting was non essential.
    My take is that today’s stuff from Cummo is aimed directly at Gray, not at Bozo per se or to public opinion. He’s making her wonder whether she’s been told the whole truth and concentrating her mind on the possibility that if she does a whitewash, it - and her credibility - could be blown out of the water by subsequent revelations. He’s trying to keep her honest.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    It's at least two years since I've encountered anyone so obsessed about Brexit as you still are.

    You mention Brexit in every single post on here.
    You clearly don't read my many posts that are scare-mongering about Covid, boasting about my sex life, boasting about selling stories from my young mistress about UFOS in Tooting to the Mail, recounting my adventures in Antarctica, discussing the best way to make a smoked haddock risotto, or baiting anyone with a Scot Nat tendency

    Stay. Hang out. My output is diverse, but hysterical
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    Yawn. Will you ever stop going on about Brexit?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 @BethRigby now has two confirmed Downing St sources confirming PM knew about the Downing St party in May
    🚨 Sue Gray report may be delayed now
    🚨 *All* Tory MPs she’s been speaking to say constituents are furious and are in a worse mood than last week
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1483156617021509636

    I wonder if the real killer wasn't Dom but Her Majesty the Queen. That desperate image of her sitting alone in Westminster Abbey when the Downing St mob had been partying on the eve of his funeral has enraged people: especially the kind of people in the Conservative membership.
    If what dom says is true that Johnson tried to go and see hmq knowing he was potentially infectious...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    No chance. Firstly the EU don't want us in a hokey-cokey state. Neither do half the people who voted remain.
    The key is in your last sentence. Half of Remainers really DO want to revisit this question ASAP

    It still dominates their thinking and emotions. That's 24% of the country, and a lot more - as a percentage - of Labour activists, pundits, writers, MPs - I suggest, Starmer himself was a 2nd voter. He wanted to overturn democracy

    They will not stay quiet. They cannot help themselves. Tho they will try
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    .

    kinabalu said:

    The "Boris Question" on the ballot for Tory MPs and members seems to be boiling down to something rather familiar. It's either Leave or Remain & Reform. The latter being that he stays but on the condition he becomes a "Better Boris". Cummings again running the Leave campaign.

    Tories face a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with Rishi, or continued chaos with Boris.
    Tugenhadt was on R4 PM, substantially more impressive than Sunak.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Leon said:

    It still dominates their thinking and emotions.

    I don't think about Brexit nearly as much as you do.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Bunker mentality

    We're at about the stage of trying out the cyanide on Blondi.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497



    No Malmsy. If this were real elections in Tory areas who don’t like labour, Libdems would get the votes the opinion polls ain’t acknowledging. I’m sure of it.

    I think I’m sure of it. Pollsters earn money for being clever about this, I need to respect that.

    Well, I'm in a seat (SW Surrey, Hunt's seat) which is classically Tory (53%) but has a vigorous LibDem presence (39%). Labour got 8% last time. The recent MRP poll showed Tories down to 43%, LibDems also down to 29, and Labour up to 22. But I don't think most of this is a Labour surge - what it chiefly shows is the huge extent of tactical voting by people who are actually Labour supporters. Asked in a mid-term poll, they truthfully say they support Labour. At election time, after delivery of 20 LibDem leaflets, many swing tactically. So you're right that there's plenty of potential for LibDem votes where it matters, though not all of them are necessarily devotees of Ed Davey.

    What the LibDems need to do to have a shot at winning seats like this is (a) focus ruthlessly on the winnable seats (b) treat Labour and Green voters in those seats with respect ("Please lend us your votes", not "Your party is hopeless") and (c) try to be quietly helpful in local elections rather than seek to get 100% of the non-Tory seats. Labour should do exactly the same in reverse, and we're all in business.

    I see Ken Livingstone is joining the Greens, by the way.
    Well, no. Of course I respect being leftish Labour you are not interested in Lib above 9 nationally, nor Bob Unit out on West Coast whose Tory.

    But.

    92 - 18%
    97 - 17%
    01 - 18%
    05 - 22%
    10 - 23%

    That’s what Lib Dem got. That’s where they should be. To poll that in general elections they need to poll that consistently in opinion polls. It needs it now to prove they have 2015 out their system and can again poll better in GE. Arguably to get Labour votes where it matters at GE requires betting polling and recognition mid term.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    No chance. Firstly the EU don't want us in a hokey-cokey state. Neither do half the people who voted remain.
    The key is in your last sentence. Half of Remainers really DO want to revisit this question ASAP

    It still dominates their thinking and emotions. That's 24% of the country, and a lot more - as a percentage - of Labour activists, pundits, writers, MPs - I suggest, Starmer himself was a 2nd voter. He wanted to overturn democracy

    They will not stay quiet. They cannot help themselves. Tho they will try
    Yes, because if Remain had won, no Leaver would have wanted to overturn the result in the future with a future election victory.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    It still dominates their thinking and emotions.

    I don't think about Brexit nearly as much as you do.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


    Pause

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


    etc
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited January 2022
    Popcorn

    Who to despise more, Boris or Cummings.

    Hard one.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    If BoZo the Liar, who got sacked for telling lies, twice, gets defenestrated for telling more lies, then just perhaps some people will come to questions whether his promises over Brexit were not quite as true as he claimed...

    You mean my unicorn version of Brexit with free trade and no freedom of movement except for us British won't occur. I'm shocked...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
    Not really. Cameron got elected in 2014 and called his EU vote in 2016

    Starmer could do the same

    And if we are ever going to Rejoin it need to be sooner rather than later, the more years go by, the more the UK settles into an ex-EU situation, the more theidea of Rejoining seems insane

    I predict this will become quite a burning issue, if Labour retains dazzling polls. Watch the Guardian op-ed pages

    "Time for a Rethink" blah blah blah

    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
    This is why a lot of Tories want to get rid of Boris, they are now worrying about a Labour majority that unwinds Brexit. Rishi as PM might not get an 80 seat majority but ultimately a 20-30 seat majority kicks any Labour government that tries to unwind Brexit into 2029 at which point we'll be so far diverged from the EU that going back is untenable.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    No chance. Firstly the EU don't want us in a hokey-cokey state. Neither do half the people who voted remain.
    The key is in your last sentence. Half of Remainers really DO want to revisit this question ASAP

    It still dominates their thinking and emotions. That's 24% of the country, and a lot more - as a percentage - of Labour activists, pundits, writers, MPs - I suggest, Starmer himself was a 2nd voter. He wanted to overturn democracy

    They will not stay quiet. They cannot help themselves. Tho they will try
    But this is why the PM is in such trouble.
    He embodies two things. COVID and Brexit.
    Both of which everyone bar you is absolutely sick to the back teeth of.
    That is why we haven't seen disgust.
    We have seen visceral rage.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    HYUFD said:

    GB News will play God Save the Queen to kick off its live programming every day, starting tomorrow.
    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1483111792511496197?s=20

    Royalties for the Sex Pistols then.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    No chance. Firstly the EU don't want us in a hokey-cokey state. Neither do half the people who voted remain.
    The key is in your last sentence. Half of Remainers really DO want to revisit this question ASAP

    It still dominates their thinking and emotions. That's 24% of the country, and a lot more - as a percentage - of Labour activists, pundits, writers, MPs - I suggest, Starmer himself was a 2nd voter. He wanted to overturn democracy

    They will not stay quiet. They cannot help themselves. Tho they will try
    No, 24% might vote for it and actively want it. For 5-10% it might dominate their political thinking. For 1-2% it might dominate their thinking.

    What may be possible by 2024 is discussion on some form of associate membership something like EFTA/EEA but tailored to the UK.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    We all read your Spectator piece. You don’t have to effectively plug it. You really need to get over this. You won. The referendum has been honoured. The future, however, is up for grabs. Why would it necessarily be a problem? Eight weeks ago we were wondering when Labour would ever get a poll lead again. I’m not sure a more ameliorative attitude would be at all unpopular. They won’t rejoin the EU but you’d best get used to the idea of a relationship more akin to Switzerland’s. Because that’s where we’ll end up.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited January 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 @BethRigby now has two confirmed Downing St sources confirming PM knew about the Downing St party in May
    🚨 Sue Gray report may be delayed now
    🚨 *All* Tory MPs she’s been speaking to say constituents are furious and are in a worse mood than last week
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1483156617021509636

    I wonder if the real killer wasn't Dom but Her Majesty the Queen. That desperate image of her sitting alone in Westminster Abbey when the Downing St mob had been partying on the eve of his funeral has enraged people: especially the kind of people in the Conservative membership.
    If what dom says is true that Johnson tried to go and see hmq knowing he was potentially infectious...
    1st question at PMQs: Did you visit the Queen while positive with Covid-19?

    Doesn't really matter of its true, already associate the parties with Her Maj so there is blood in the water.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    EXC: Desperate No 10 officials have explored use of sonic weapons to turn small boats around in Channel - but met extreme resistance from the Home Office and Border Force..

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17354454/sonic-weapons-migrants-boats-channel/
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786



    No Malmsy. If this were real elections in Tory areas who don’t like labour, Libdems would get the votes the opinion polls ain’t acknowledging. I’m sure of it.

    I think I’m sure of it. Pollsters earn money for being clever about this, I need to respect that.

    Well, I'm in a seat (SW Surrey, Hunt's seat) which is classically Tory (53%) but has a vigorous LibDem presence (39%). Labour got 8% last time. The recent MRP poll showed Tories down to 43%, LibDems also down to 29, and Labour up to 22. But I don't think most of this is a Labour surge - what it chiefly shows is the huge extent of tactical voting by people who are actually Labour supporters. Asked in a mid-term poll, they truthfully say they support Labour. At election time, after delivery of 20 LibDem leaflets, many swing tactically. So you're right that there's plenty of potential for LibDem votes where it matters, though not all of them are necessarily devotees of Ed Davey.

    What the LibDems need to do to have a shot at winning seats like this is (a) focus ruthlessly on the winnable seats (b) treat Labour and Green voters in those seats with respect ("Please lend us your votes", not "Your party is hopeless") and (c) try to be quietly helpful in local elections rather than seek to get 100% of the non-Tory seats. Labour should do exactly the same in reverse, and we're all in business.

    I see Ken Livingstone is joining the Greens, by the way.
    Nick, I knew SWSurrey very well. I was heavily involved in the joint SWSurrey/Guildford campaign when we won Guildford and missed SWSurrey by a few hundred. SWSurrey was the main target. With a week to go it looked like Guildford was the better chance as proved correct.

    A confidential poll was carried out in SWSurrey by the LDs, as this was a top target, at the beginning of the campaign. The details were not disclosed. At that point Labour were just in 2nd place. This is before everyone is reminded that it is a close Tory/LD fight with tons of leaflets.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    Sort of chimes with what Tony Blair said - we were all too tired for that.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
    Not really. Cameron got elected in 2014 and called his EU vote in 2016

    Starmer could do the same

    And if we are ever going to Rejoin it need to be sooner rather than later, the more years go by, the more the UK settles into an ex-EU situation, the more theidea of Rejoining seems insane

    I predict this will become quite a burning issue, if Labour retains dazzling polls. Watch the Guardian op-ed pages

    "Time for a Rethink" blah blah blah

    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
    I can't see Sir Keir wanting to get bogged down in all that - negotiating the terms of our re-entry alone would take years. What's in it for him? (Unless he's secretly obsessed with Boris and intends to get some deranged pleasure from wrecking his legacy.)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    It's at least two years since I've encountered anyone so obsessed about Brexit as you still are.

    You mention Brexit in every single post on here.
    You clearly don't read my many posts that are scare-mongering about Covid, boasting about my sex life, boasting about selling stories from my young mistress about UFOS in Tooting to the Mail, recounting my adventures in Antarctica, discussing the best way to make a smoked haddock risotto, or baiting anyone with a Scot Nat tendency

    Stay. Hang out. My output is diverse, but hysterical
    The risotto is colluding with the BBC in putting the specialist press out of biz

    In case it ever happens to me, would I as a randomer have stood a chance of selling the tooting UAP to the Mail or would I need some sort of journo credentials to get through the door?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    No chance. Firstly the EU don't want us in a hokey-cokey state. Neither do half the people who voted remain.
    The key is in your last sentence. Half of Remainers really DO want to revisit this question ASAP

    It still dominates their thinking and emotions. That's 24% of the country, and a lot more - as a percentage - of Labour activists, pundits, writers, MPs - I suggest, Starmer himself was a 2nd voter. He wanted to overturn democracy

    They will not stay quiet. They cannot help themselves. Tho they will try
    Yes, because if Remain had won, no Leaver would have wanted to overturn the result in the future with a future election victory.
    Well actually no, they would not. Of course a hardcore of Leavers would have kept the faith but it would have been a tiny cult of Farageists and Bill cash. Everyone else would have shrugged and said OK, we're in for the long haul, fuck this, let's get on with it

    the difference is that the hardcore of Remainers is massive, and much more influential, and with every day that passes they go crazier. LOOK WHAT YOU VOTED FOR YOU BREXITY THICKOS. WHAT WAS BREXIT ABOUT YOU MORONS. YES I AM ANGRY. MY NAME IS FBPE. I HAVE FLAGS IN MY BIO!!

    No way Starmer gets to ignore this vocal constituency. Polly Toynbee is probably writing her first Rejoin column right now

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
    Not really. Cameron got elected in 2014 and called his EU vote in 2016

    Starmer could do the same

    And if we are ever going to Rejoin it need to be sooner rather than later, the more years go by, the more the UK settles into an ex-EU situation, the more theidea of Rejoining seems insane

    I predict this will become quite a burning issue, if Labour retains dazzling polls. Watch the Guardian op-ed pages

    "Time for a Rethink" blah blah blah

    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
    So what? If the people want it they’ll vote for it. If they don’t they won’t. The referendum’s been honoured. Its mandate past. That’s how democracy works.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited January 2022
    Brexit been such a resounding success I see, you have to vote Tory to keep it.
    Because. Reasons. My precioussss or summat.
    PS. There is a representative sample of Remainers on this site I reckon.
    Care to name the 50% of us desperate to re-open the whole tedious process?
  • Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    GB News will play God Save the Queen to kick off its live programming every day, starting tomorrow.
    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1483111792511496197?s=20

    How very American.
    Yes, they’re known for playing God Save the Queen before programming starts.
    As an atheist, my issue with God Save The Queen is God, not The Queen.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Leon said:

    Come on Boris, this is done and dusted now. You Got Brexit Done, you got us all vaxxed, you got us all boostered, and you kept us out of Lockdowns 4, 5 and 6 (which Labour would not have done). You have also returned the UK economy to pre-pandemic size (against all expectations, and ahead of Italy Spain and GERMANY)

    It's not a bad record and history will judge you as a transformative if transient PM, way more important than the last three....

    But this is toxic. Time to go. Pretending to send migrants to Lesotho in a non-existent ark is not gonna save you

    Signed, wearily,

    a one time Borisovian

    Remind him how much money is waiting for him when he shuffles off.

    "Shakespeare: the genius who was nearly as good as me" is still awaiting publication.
    A twist on the pointed question as to why God created Shakespeare a better write than (s/)he was in the bible?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Paul Waugh
    @paulwaugh
    Tory MP tells me they had more than 500 emails from constituents 'by Saturday night alone'.
    “That’s 500 against Boris. I had just 20 supporting him.”


    Paul Waugh
    @paulwaugh
    ·
    38m
    "Seven of the 20 [pro-Johnson emails] were so similar they looked as though they were sent by the same person.
    "Far be it from me to suggest this, but perhaps the regional office of the Conservative party was assisting people with their drafting...."

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1483155648825204738
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    George Eaton
    @georgeeaton
    ·
    1m
    The Tories spinning the licence fee freeze as a “cost-of-living” measure after cutting Universal Credit, raising taxes and doing nothing on energy bills is darkly comic.
    Quote Tweet
    Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    · 3h
    We simply cannot justify putting extra pressure on the wallets of hard-working households. That's why we're freezing the Licence Fee.

    Red circle LIVE: My statement to @HouseofCommons Down pointing backhand index

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/ec0c2031-c46d-4fb3-b3ab-66c16ba6d477

    70p a month pays for about 3 kwh of electricity at post April prices. No one is going to care that the licence fee has remained the same when energy prices have gone sky high.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
    Not really. Cameron got elected in 2014 and called his EU vote in 2016

    Starmer could do the same

    And if we are ever going to Rejoin it need to be sooner rather than later, the more years go by, the more the UK settles into an ex-EU situation, the more theidea of Rejoining seems insane

    I predict this will become quite a burning issue, if Labour retains dazzling polls. Watch the Guardian op-ed pages

    "Time for a Rethink" blah blah blah

    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
    There’s no chance of the UK rejoining for the foreseeable future . The EU doesn’t want another load of drama , Remainers I know still think Brexit is a fxcking disaster but wouldn’t want another referendum anytime soon . There would have to be a massive shift in opinion to a huge majority to rejoin and I can’t see that happening for a generation.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    It's at least two years since I've encountered anyone so obsessed about Brexit as you still are.

    You mention Brexit in every single post on here.
    You clearly don't read my many posts that are scare-mongering about Covid, boasting about my sex life, boasting about selling stories from my young mistress about UFOS in Tooting to the Mail, recounting my adventures in Antarctica, discussing the best way to make a smoked haddock risotto, or baiting anyone with a Scot Nat tendency

    Stay. Hang out. My output is diverse, but hysterical
    The risotto is colluding with the BBC in putting the specialist press out of biz

    In case it ever happens to me, would I as a randomer have stood a chance of selling the tooting UAP to the Mail or would I need some sort of journo credentials to get through the door?
    I wouldn’t have tried as it was clearly a plane, just like the one I posted earlier...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    5m
    EXC: Desperate No 10 officials have explored use of sonic weapons to turn small boats around in Channel - but met extreme resistance from the Home Office and Border Force..

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1483167702105608202



    ===

    Utterly desperate and out of control.

    It's like the last hours of Nixon.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
    You don’t need a referendum to join the EEA and CU, and since this was always the most sensible way to start Brexit anyway, the political cost for their doing so will be limited, particularly if the Tories have demonstrated that they can’t control the borders and that Brexit means aa semi-open door to India
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    .

    kinabalu said:

    The "Boris Question" on the ballot for Tory MPs and members seems to be boiling down to something rather familiar. It's either Leave or Remain & Reform. The latter being that he stays but on the condition he becomes a "Better Boris". Cummings again running the Leave campaign.

    Tories face a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with Rishi, or continued chaos with Boris.
    Tugenhadt was on R4 PM, substantially more impressive than Sunak.
    I’m not here to be really really rude Pete, but your politics is weird.
  • Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Desperate No 10 officials have explored use of sonic weapons to turn small boats around in Channel - but met extreme resistance from the Home Office and Border Force..

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17354454/sonic-weapons-migrants-boats-channel/

    Was that deploying Big Dom to cliffs of Dover to read out his substack articles via a megaphone?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
    Not really. Cameron got elected in 2014 and called his EU vote in 2016

    Starmer could do the same

    And if we are ever going to Rejoin it need to be sooner rather than later, the more years go by, the more the UK settles into an ex-EU situation, the more theidea of Rejoining seems insane

    I predict this will become quite a burning issue, if Labour retains dazzling polls. Watch the Guardian op-ed pages

    "Time for a Rethink" blah blah blah

    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
    This is why a lot of Tories want to get rid of Boris, they are now worrying about a Labour majority that unwinds Brexit. Rishi as PM might not get an 80 seat majority but ultimately a 20-30 seat majority kicks any Labour government that tries to unwind Brexit into 2029 at which point we'll be so far diverged from the EU that going back is untenable.
    Yes, exactly. As so often, you get it, when others don't

    Rishi is also a LEAVER. Unlike Truss or Hunt

    Mordaunt is likewise LEAVE

    No way the Tories will install a Remainer, at this perilous juncture, unless Truss can do an amazingly convincing sermon espousing her Conversion to Brexit

    Hunt has zero chance
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    dixiedean said:

    This is just the Sonia Khan story recycled, yet again. Far too much credence is being given to one SPAD's tales of drinking culture at No. 10. She was at No. 10 relatively briefly before Cummings marched her out, though she'd been in Whitehall a few years. There's little corroboration of a long-standing drinking culture at No. 10. I have reason to believe it's a relatively recent phenomenon, partly caused by the closure of pubs during lockdown, but also by the appointment of lots of young whizz kids by the Cummings/Johnson regime.
    As someone who went to a few Downing Street events under Dave, there really wasn't that much of a drinking culture, there'd be a bottle of wine/etc that four people might share, they really didn't have the time or energy to go out on regular benders, plus Dave had a young family upstairs, he was keen to spend time with them, and everyone buggered off early into the night.
    So you're confirming that pretty much the same thing, with the same format, happened under Cameron. Cameron himself may not have stayed, but nobody is accusing Boris of staying either.
    Yes but. Cameron didn't forbid the rest of the country from doing it.
    Which is the real issue at hand here.
    Yes, I see that, but TSEs point was that there wasn't a drinking culture under Cameron, by providing an account which shows that there was.
    A glass once every few weeks isn't a drinking culture, one event I went to, there was no drinking, but plenty of singing.
    Indeed not, but since you weren't at every event, and since (I'm guessing here) the events just sort of died when Cameron left, rather than people being formally asked to leave, your account, whilst adding interesting colour, only proves solidly that BYOB was already a thing.
    I'm still in contact with the people who worked for Dave, they said they never drank like this under Dave's premiership, even when they wanted, they didn't have the time or the energy to do so.

    To cite one example, after the Indyref you would have thought that was a reason for the mother of all benders, nope, they went home and slept, as they didn't have much sleep the month before the vote, once the result was in, their focus turned to the Tory conference which was a week away.
    They did during the evening I spent with Cammo at number ten. But then that was billed as a drinks event and was after hours.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Desperate No 10 officials have explored use of sonic weapons to turn small boats around in Channel - but met extreme resistance from the Home Office and Border Force..

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17354454/sonic-weapons-migrants-boats-channel/

    Well. James Blunt is ex-military and at a loose end.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    It's at least two years since I've encountered anyone so obsessed about Brexit as you still are.

    You mention Brexit in every single post on here.
    It’s because he too wrote two letters, but still couldn’t decide.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Come on Boris, this is done and dusted now. You Got Brexit Done, you got us all vaxxed, you got us all boostered, and you kept us out of Lockdowns 4, 5 and 6 (which Labour would not have done). You have also returned the UK economy to pre-pandemic size (against all expectations, and ahead of Italy Spain and GERMANY)

    It's not a bad record and history will judge you as a transformative if transient PM, way more important than the last three....

    But this is toxic. Time to go. Pretending to send migrants to Lesotho in a non-existent ark is not gonna save you

    Signed, wearily,

    a one time Borisovian

    Remind him how much money is waiting for him when he shuffles off.

    "Shakespeare: the genius who was nearly as good as me" is still awaiting publication.
    A twist on the pointed question as to why God created Shakespeare a better write than (s/)he was in the bible?
    God didn't write the bible (but he did write the Koran and book of Mormon)

    Shakespeare vs kjv, William probably wins on points but not a slam dunk
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    It's at least two years since I've encountered anyone so obsessed about Brexit as you still are.

    You mention Brexit in every single post on here.
    You clearly don't read my many posts that are scare-mongering about Covid, boasting about my sex life, boasting about selling stories from my young mistress about UFOS in Tooting to the Mail, recounting my adventures in Antarctica, discussing the best way to make a smoked haddock risotto, or baiting anyone with a Scot Nat tendency

    Stay. Hang out. My output is diverse, but hysterical
    The risotto is colluding with the BBC in putting the specialist press out of biz

    In case it ever happens to me, would I as a randomer have stood a chance of selling the tooting UAP to the Mail or would I need some sort of journo credentials to get through the door?
    A good story always has a chance, indeed an excellent chance: the UK press is competitive and voracious and loves stories

    But you'd have been hard pushed to go from random Whatsapp message from young lady to getting it in the paper 3 hours later
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    It's at least two years since I've encountered anyone so obsessed about Brexit as you still are.

    You mention Brexit in every single post on here.

    Stay. Hang out. My output is diverse, but hysterical
    Just not in the humorous sense.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Who could have predicted that Johnson's claim not to have known in advance wouldn't stand up to scrutiny? https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1483156617021509636

    He really is trapped now. Obliged to offer implausible accounts in an effort to avoid admitting legal liability when a story breaks, then the inevitable disintegration of the "will this do?" excuse just extends the story further. Then there's another party, and another excuse...
    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1483170290859446274
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    The "Boris Question" on the ballot for Tory MPs and members seems to be boiling down to something rather familiar. It's either Leave or Remain & Reform. The latter being that he stays but on the condition he becomes a "Better Boris". Cummings again running the Leave campaign.

    Tories face a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with Rishi, or continued chaos with Boris.
    ISTR strong and stable government has been promised by all the 3 Tory PM'S we have endured over the past 11 years.
    Fool me three times...
    Bit like Brown’s end to boom and bust. Bollocks.
  • As PB's leading fashion expert would you like me to do a thread on the latest range of ALBA clothing?



    https://twitter.com/AlbaMerchandise/status/1483159332917288966
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    As PB's leading fashion expert would you like me to do a thread on the latest range of ALBA clothing?



    https://twitter.com/AlbaMerchandise/status/1483159332917288966

    Is this the BBC Alba TV station ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    The "Boris Question" on the ballot for Tory MPs and members seems to be boiling down to something rather familiar. It's either Leave or Remain & Reform. The latter being that he stays but on the condition he becomes a "Better Boris". Cummings again running the Leave campaign.

    Tories face a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with Rishi, or continued chaos with Boris.
    ISTR strong and stable government has been promised by all the 3 Tory PM'S we have endured over the past 11 years.
    Fool me three times...
    Bit like Brown’s end to boom and bust. Bollocks.
    He was half right. He ended boom.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    No chance. Firstly the EU don't want us in a hokey-cokey state. Neither do half the people who voted remain.
    The key is in your last sentence. Half of Remainers really DO want to revisit this question ASAP

    It still dominates their thinking and emotions. That's 24% of the country, and a lot more - as a percentage - of Labour activists, pundits, writers, MPs - I suggest, Starmer himself was a 2nd voter. He wanted to overturn democracy

    They will not stay quiet. They cannot help themselves. Tho they will try
    Yes, because if Remain had won, no Leaver would have wanted to overturn the result in the future with a future election victory.
    Well actually no, they would not. Of course a hardcore of Leavers would have kept the faith but it would have been a tiny cult of Farageists and Bill cash. Everyone else would have shrugged and said OK, we're in for the long haul, fuck this, let's get on with it

    the difference is that the hardcore of Remainers is massive, and much more influential, and with every day that passes they go crazier. LOOK WHAT YOU VOTED FOR YOU BREXITY THICKOS. WHAT WAS BREXIT ABOUT YOU MORONS. YES I AM ANGRY. MY NAME IS FBPE. I HAVE FLAGS IN MY BIO!!

    No way Starmer gets to ignore this vocal constituency. Polly Toynbee is probably writing her first Rejoin column right now

    Polly's been adamant that the national trauma of another Brexit war shouldn't be revisited.
  • Taz said:

    As PB's leading fashion expert would you like me to do a thread on the latest range of ALBA clothing?



    https://twitter.com/AlbaMerchandise/status/1483159332917288966

    Is this the BBC Alba TV station ?
    The Alba Party that the Scotch Expert MalcolmG said would poll at least 12% in the Holyrood elections.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
    Not really. Cameron got elected in 2014 and called his EU vote in 2016

    Starmer could do the same

    And if we are ever going to Rejoin it need to be sooner rather than later, the more years go by, the more the UK settles into an ex-EU situation, the more theidea of Rejoining seems insane

    I predict this will become quite a burning issue, if Labour retains dazzling polls. Watch the Guardian op-ed pages

    "Time for a Rethink" blah blah blah

    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
    This is why a lot of Tories want to get rid of Boris, they are now worrying about a Labour majority that unwinds Brexit. Rishi as PM might not get an 80 seat majority but ultimately a 20-30 seat majority kicks any Labour government that tries to unwind Brexit into 2029 at which point we'll be so far diverged from the EU that going back is untenable.
    There’s nothing to unwind . Not sure why Leavers can’t accept the win and move on .
  • Scott_xP said:

    Who could have predicted that Johnson's claim not to have known in advance wouldn't stand up to scrutiny? https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1483156617021509636

    He really is trapped now. Obliged to offer implausible accounts in an effort to avoid admitting legal liability when a story breaks, then the inevitable disintegration of the "will this do?" excuse just extends the story further. Then there's another party, and another excuse...
    https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1483170290859446274

    Any chance he can extend his hiding in the fridge medical isolation?

    About 2 or 3 years should do the trick.

    Though at this rate, the Conservative poll ratings will be negative well before the local elections.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If Labour do return to power, especially if they get an unexpected majority, I wonder how long it will be before their ill-concealed Remainer instincts come to the fore?

    Half of them are the bastard offspring of A C Grayling and @Scott_xP

    They have never accepted Brexit, they would reverse it tomorrow (by a coup, if necessary) and Starmer is one of theirs. A 2nd voter. A Trumpite on the left, who was willing to overturn democracy by thwarting the referendum

    Can they really keep their primal instincts concealed? It's like asking alcoholics to be happy with alcohol free lager, even tho their best friend now has the keys to the pub. It's not gonna work

    At some point this is gonna become a real problem for Labour, I just wonder if it will be before or after the next election. If the polls stay amazing (for the left), it might come before

    There's no way back without a referendum which would take years to organize and legislate for.
    Not really. Cameron got elected in 2014 and called his EU vote in 2016

    Starmer could do the same

    And if we are ever going to Rejoin it need to be sooner rather than later, the more years go by, the more the UK settles into an ex-EU situation, the more theidea of Rejoining seems insane

    I predict this will become quite a burning issue, if Labour retains dazzling polls. Watch the Guardian op-ed pages

    "Time for a Rethink" blah blah blah

    "Starmer has a golden opportunity to settle the EU Question"

    And so forth
    So what? If the people want it they’ll vote for it. If they don’t they won’t. The referendum’s been honoured. Its mandate past. That’s how democracy works.
    I completely agree. If Labour comes out of the closet in 2023 and says Well actually we want to Rejoin and we will call a new vote in office, and people say OK in the election, by all means call a vote. And if the Brits vote REJOIN unlike Remoaners and Mr Meeks and Scottxp and Keir Starmer, even tho I will abhor this choice, I will not seek to overturn it by not enacting it and calling another referendum to thwart it

    That's because I am morally superior and a democrat and Remoaners are Trumpite scum. But if these scum win their next vote, then they win, so be it

    But really my comment is more about political management. How does Starmer handle his sizeable hardcore of still-enraged Remainers who would love to reverse Brexit? It was easy when there was no chance of winning a majority..... but if there is?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "All Covid restrictions in England could end in March under No 10 plans
    Guidance may replace legal requirements as Boris Johnson indicates UK must now live with the virus"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/17/all-covid-restrictions-in-england-could-end-in-march-under-no-10-plans
  • As PB's leading fashion expert would you like me to do a thread on the latest range of ALBA clothing?



    https://twitter.com/AlbaMerchandise/status/1483159332917288966

    Don't be a Smart Alex!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Incidentally, I fear the failure to make good decisions might prove fatal for the BBC, if the licence fee ends and their attempted alternative is a catastrophe.

    That's why talk of the licence fee ending (from the Government) is stupid until they and/or the BBC have conceived of a well-considered alternative.

    However, given the political class' answer to Scottish nationalism has seen the union come within a whisker of being destroyed at the ballot box I am not confident such a thing will happen.

    Fine by me if the British political class retain current trajectory.

    I see no sign of them deviating from their chosen path.
  • dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Desperate No 10 officials have explored use of sonic weapons to turn small boats around in Channel - but met extreme resistance from the Home Office and Border Force..

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17354454/sonic-weapons-migrants-boats-channel/

    Well. James Blunt is ex-military and at a loose end.
    Guys, the government are giving away free drugs, and I am trying ALL of them.

    https://twitter.com/JamesBlunt/status/1479086569105547274?s=20
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Leon said:


    You clearly don't read my many posts that are scare-mongering about Covid, boasting about my sex life, boasting about selling stories from my young mistress about UFOS in Tooting to the Mail, recounting my adventures in Antarctica, discussing the best way to make a smoked haddock risotto, or baiting anyone with a Scot Nat tendency

    Stay. Hang out. My output is diverse, but hysterical

    No, it's not.

    It's not even funny any more - it's the boring old guff we've had from @SeanT and Martin Day since the late 2000s.

    The regurgitated excreta of legends I fear.
This discussion has been closed.