Pricing of a bet – Part 2 – The bet – politicalbetting.com
This is the second thread on the theory behind the recently established Smarkets market on the prospects of a Conservative lead by end of January (covered here).
Skip the formulae, just consider that we’re just a few working days into January, and the clown is already embroiled in at least two *new* stories that involve his dishonesty.
Betting on a Tory lead this month is a fool’s bet.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
Tory peer Michelle Mone secretly involved in PPE firm she referred to government Exclusive: Leaked files suggest Mone and her husband were involved in business given £200m contracts
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
Of course it's the second.
And what would you suggest "the West" does? The government of Kazakhstan asked for help for help from the Russians. And they gave it.
Now, it's a brutal repressionary regime in Kazakhstan, that you would not wish to be a citizen of. It's also a Russian client state (like most of the other poor countries on Russia's southern border). But ultimately, there's nothing the West can do about it.
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
It's a little bit different.
One would be an invasion of a hostile power over 120 miles of Ocean guarded by a well equipped air force and navy.
The other is a regime inviting Russian troops in.
What are we supposed to re Kazakhstan? We can say "please don't murder your citizens". But the fact is that the regimes in the Caucuses have pretty much all got (Russian supported) despots who behave pretty poorly. And they can do so, because the Russians come running with tanks and soldiers whenever necessary.
This is a regime that's brutally repressed its citizens for decades, and what do we do? We invite them to the White House for pictures with the President.
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
I really do worry about the USA, and linked to the Russian conversation, the west as a whole.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
I don't think Kazakhstan and Taiwan are remotely comparable. The former is a client state in chaos which has requested aid - an unpleasant, corrupt oligarchy, certainly, but it would be peculiar if it was denied - it's not as though there was a credible opposition. The latter is a fiercely defensive, well-armed country which has absolutely no need or wish for intervention. Xi shows no real sign of remotely contemplating invasion.
I've also never thought Putin had any real interest in taking over Ukraine, though I agree there's more evidence that he might. He'd like to destabilise and unnerve it and get some Western concessions - could be wrong, but I doubt if it's more than that.
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
If it weren’t for the bit about ‘violence’ they could be talking about Remainers 2016-19
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
I really do worry about the USA, and linked to the Russian conversation, the west as a whole.
We’re toothless and fatigued. In decline.
A book I am reading at the moment, not far enough in yet to heartily recommend, is Wildland by Osnos. So far, it seems to be very on point.
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
If it weren’t for the bit about ‘violence’ they could be talking about Remainers 2016-19
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
I don't think Kazakhstan and Taiwan are remotely comparable. The former is a client state in chaos which has requested aid - an unpleasant, corrupt oligarchy, certainly, but it would be peculiar if it was denied - it's not as though there was a credible opposition. The latter is a fiercely defensive, well-armed country which has absolutely no need or wish for intervention. Xi shows no real sign of remotely contemplating invasion.
I've also never thought Putin had any real interest in taking over Ukraine, though I agree there's more evidence that he might. He'd like to destabilise and unnerve it and get some Western concessions - could be wrong, but I doubt if it's more than that.
They’re not comparable situations, the link is that they both illustrate western weakness and decline
Would we really go to war with Xi to stop him taking Taiwan? I doubt it. No more than we would go to war with Putin over Ukraine
As for “Xi shows no real sign of remotely contemplating invasion” that’s remarkably naive. The Taiwanese certainly don’t agree with you
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
I don't think Kazakhstan and Taiwan are remotely comparable. The former is a client state in chaos which has requested aid - an unpleasant, corrupt oligarchy, certainly, but it would be peculiar if it was denied - it's not as though there was a credible opposition. The latter is a fiercely defensive, well-armed country which has absolutely no need or wish for intervention. Xi shows no real sign of remotely contemplating invasion.
I've also never thought Putin had any real interest in taking over Ukraine, though I agree there's more evidence that he might. He'd like to destabilise and unnerve it and get some Western concessions - could be wrong, but I doubt if it's more than that.
This was posted on here earlier today (apologies, I can't remember who by). I found it pretty depressing.
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
The tragedy is that Plan B probably had littie to zero effect on Omicron. Even hard lockdowns struggle to contain it. As the Dutch are discovering
"29 November 2020, 12.59pm Hi David I am afraid parts of our flat are still a bit of a tip and am keen to allow Lulu Lytle to get on with it. Can I possibly ask her to get in touch with you for approvals ? Many thanks and all best Boris "
...with the idea that Boris claims not to have known that Brownlow was funding renovations to the No 11 residence?
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
Jenny Harries saying you shouldn’t go to parties unless you absolutely have to, on the Monday morning of the week of the first tranche of Christmas parties. Various bods from the government actively discouraging works parties. Just wiped out thousands of bookings worth multiple millions in a sector that has already been hit.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
I don't think Kazakhstan and Taiwan are remotely comparable. The former is a client state in chaos which has requested aid - an unpleasant, corrupt oligarchy, certainly, but it would be peculiar if it was denied - it's not as though there was a credible opposition. The latter is a fiercely defensive, well-armed country which has absolutely no need or wish for intervention. Xi shows no real sign of remotely contemplating invasion.
I've also never thought Putin had any real interest in taking over Ukraine, though I agree there's more evidence that he might. He'd like to destabilise and unnerve it and get some Western concessions - could be wrong, but I doubt if it's more than that.
This was posted on here earlier today (apologies, I can't remember who by). I found it pretty depressing.
It was me. I suspect it’s deliberately catastrophist, like a geopolitical version of an Eric Feigl Ding post, but is certainly good for thought. You have to hope the Russians are doing their usual masterful bluffing.
Trashing hospitality vs lockdown wasn’t a binary choice. Compensation for lost bookings could have been advanced with a little imagination, plus various tax breaks.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
I don't think Kazakhstan and Taiwan are remotely comparable. The former is a client state in chaos which has requested aid - an unpleasant, corrupt oligarchy, certainly, but it would be peculiar if it was denied - it's not as though there was a credible opposition. The latter is a fiercely defensive, well-armed country which has absolutely no need or wish for intervention. Xi shows no real sign of remotely contemplating invasion.
I've also never thought Putin had any real interest in taking over Ukraine, though I agree there's more evidence that he might. He'd like to destabilise and unnerve it and get some Western concessions - could be wrong, but I doubt if it's more than that.
This was posted on here earlier today (apologies, I can't remember who by). I found it pretty depressing.
It was me. I suspect it’s deliberately catastrophist, like a geopolitical version of an Eric Feigl Ding post, but is certainly good for thought. You have to hope the Russians are doing their usual masterful bluffing.
Thanks, yes, let's hope so. A quick scan of the other Desk Russie articles shows they seem to have a clear anti-Russian objective. But still...
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
Of course it's the second.
And what would you suggest "the West" does? The government of Kazakhstan asked for help for help from the Russians. And they gave it.
Now, it's a brutal repressionary regime in Kazakhstan, that you would not wish to be a citizen of. It's also a Russian client state (like most of the other poor countries on Russia's southern border). But ultimately, there's nothing the West can do about it.
Not much but there are degrees of what you can't do, if that makes sense. Kicking up a fuss plus some sanctions against both gives at least some impression that there are consequences which are likely to be greater if the Ukraine is invaded / messed with. It seems from the reaction today - and part is probably down to Biden trying to maximise the January 6th narrative rather than get distracted - it seems like a shrug of the shoulders.
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
Jenny Harries saying you shouldn’t go to parties unless you absolutely have to, on the Monday morning of the week of the first tranche of Christmas parties. Various bods from the government actively discouraging works parties. Just wiped out thousands of bookings worth multiple millions in a sector that has already been hit.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
Jenny Harries is NOT the government. She is head of UKHSA. The pb was saying take a test before you go. Very different.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
And the possibility of USA descending into extreme and paranoid isolationism is somewhat above zero.
And the point so often made about the EU's biggest two mistakes could stop being merely comic. Mistake one: to be in denial about the EU's state like ambitions. Mistake two: to think that in 'ever closer union' having a common currency and central bank, to say nothing about harmonising standards for My Little Pony stickers, was way ahead of all EU members being in the same defence alliance and having proper defence forces.
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
The tragedy is that Plan B probably had littie to zero effect on Omicron. Even hard lockdowns struggle to contain it. As the Dutch are discovering
Absolutely.
If only the medical elite of a major G20 nation at the vanguard of the outbreak had told us this at the time.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
Almost like Hong Kong was on lease to UK and the UK had to give it back to China after 99 years.
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
Jenny Harries saying you shouldn’t go to parties unless you absolutely have to, on the Monday morning of the week of the first tranche of Christmas parties. Various bods from the government actively discouraging works parties. Just wiped out thousands of bookings worth multiple millions in a sector that has already been hit.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
iirc Whitty said prioritise your socializing. So that you get to see Grandma on 25th, but ditch all the works outings and parties and get together with old mates just before xmas.
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
If it weren’t for the bit about ‘violence’ they could be talking about Remainers 2016-19
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind that doing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Good point. I assume they want to get Taiwan the long way, via attrition.
Similarly an invasion of Ukraine would presumably bring massive sanctions down on Russia (exclusion from Swift has been mentioned), which would not make life very pleasant in the Kremlin.
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
Jenny Harries saying you shouldn’t go to parties unless you absolutely have to, on the Monday morning of the week of the first tranche of Christmas parties. Various bods from the government actively discouraging works parties. Just wiped out thousands of bookings worth multiple millions in a sector that has already been hit.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
Jenny Harries is NOT the government. She is head of UKHSA. The pb was saying take a test before you go. Very different.
She works for the government and is seen as a public face of the health service. Ministers entirely failed in reining her in - meanwhile Whitty etc were saying similarly destructive things. I shudder when I remember that period: it was inexcusably poor messaging.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind that doing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Good point. I assume they want to get Taiwan the long way, via attrition.
Similarly an invasion of Ukraine would presumably bring massive sanctions down on Russia (exclusion from Swift has been mentioned), which would not make life very pleasant in the Kremlin.
We should also seize all Russian owned UK assets.
Nobody would weep if the UK government took control of Chelsea FC, sold off all the players and ground and closed Chelsea FC down.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
Others have said the situation between Taiwan and Kazakhstan are different but in two key ways they are not. The first, as you pointed out, is the message of Western inertia bringing parallels with the the 1930s. The second is that both Russia and China see the respective territories as renegades that rightfully belong to their home nation.
The other way I would look at this is to say, if you are Putin or Xi, why would you NOT invade now? I would argue there might not be a better time - the US is run by a weak President (and, let's be honest, who would bet their mortgage on saying that the Chinese / Russians also don't have something on Hunter Biden - an interesting parallel with Hitler's coming to power in 1933), the EU is weak, America's allies are disheartened by its lack of spine and there are mid-terms coming up where the President's party faces electoral disaster if things continue. If I was Putin or Xi, I would be seriously tempted to call Biden's bluff.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
Almost like Hong Kong was on lease to UK and the UK had to give it back to China after 99 years.
Not true? The New Territories were the leased bit. Think we ‘owned’ Hongers
Thanks to @Fishing for making my efforts to try to work out the winner of the 2.30 at Lingfield seem positively amateurish.
There's a thing about "value" in all this but as any horse racing punter will tell you, that one is in the eye of the beholder. Back when I punted seriously, I would create my own tissue prices for some races and compare with how the bookies priced up a race.
On other matters, Kazakhstan becomes another thing in the Putin in-tray so we may see the rhetoric on the Ukraine toned down a little. "Helping out" in Almaty, as in Minsk, is a low-risk strategy for Putin in terms of any Russian casualties or any serious destabilisation of the ruling group in each country. If anything, it binds Kazakhstan closer to Russia.
Ukraine is a very different pot of beluga by comparison - there are too many risks and not enough rewards for anything to really happen. It helps to keep the pot simmering and the West and Kiev on edge but that's all it is.
Elsewhere, a single Council by-election tonight at Gedling - a Labour seat but with Conservative, Labour, LD, Green and No Description parties running. I've always wondered about voting No Description - I presume they can have whatever policy you want.
Quick look at the latest Infratest poll from Germany - very little change since last September's election. The SPD-FDP-Green coalition still enjoys majority support at 53% (+1) with the Union still well behind on 23% (-1).
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
The tragedy is that Plan B probably had littie to zero effect on Omicron. Even hard lockdowns struggle to contain it. As the Dutch are discovering
Pointless something-must-be-done-ism. OTOH (a) our leaders could've gone an awful lot further (as the Dutch did, and as the Welsh and Scots would have been sorely tempted to do as well, if fiscal devolution had run in parallel to administrative devolution,) and (b) they've hopefully learned that the coronavirus has now grown so infectious that trying to squash it with restrictions is pointless. The government in the Netherlands has relented and agreed to let the schools back next week despite rising case rates, the devolved administrations show no signs of building on their rules, and (aside from the mask pantomime in secondary schools) we've had no gold plating of plan B in England either.
Beyond that, there are sound reasons to believe that future Covid variants will be more transmissible and less virulent than Omicron - because the former seems to be contingent upon the latter. It looks encouragingly as if the pandemic is almost over, thank goodness.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind that doing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Good point. I assume they want to get Taiwan the long way, via attrition.
Similarly an invasion of Ukraine would presumably bring massive sanctions down on Russia (exclusion from Swift has been mentioned), which would not make life very pleasant in the Kremlin.
We should also seize all Russian owned UK assets.
Nobody would weep if the UK government took control of Chelsea FC, sold off all the players and ground and closed Chelsea FC down.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
Almost like Hong Kong was on lease to UK and the UK had to give it back to China after 99 years.
Not true? The New Territories were the leased bit. Think we ‘owned’ Hongers
Hong Kong wasn't sustainable without the New Territories, and Maggie had the good sense to recognise both this and the fact that Britain couldn't credibly defend a tiny scrap of land bordering China from the Chinese army.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
Others have said the situation between Taiwan and Kazakhstan are different but in two key ways they are not. The first, as you pointed out, is the message of Western inertia bringing parallels with the the 1930s. The second is that both Russia and China see the respective territories as renegades that rightfully belong to their home nation.
The other way I would look at this is to say, if you are Putin or Xi, why would you NOT invade now? I would argue there might not be a better time - the US is run by a weak President (and, let's be honest, who would bet their mortgage on saying that the Chinese / Russians also don't have something on Hunter Biden - an interesting parallel with Hitler's coming to power in 1933), the EU is weak, America's allies are disheartened by its lack of spine and there are mid-terms coming up where the President's party faces electoral disaster if things continue. If I was Putin or Xi, I would be seriously tempted to call Biden's bluff.
Yes, Hitler progressively taking bits of europe that were ‘rightfully German anyway’ is a striking parallel. First the Ruhr. Then Austria and the Sudetenland. Likewise HK and Taiwan to China
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind that doing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Good point. I assume they want to get Taiwan the long way, via attrition.
Similarly an invasion of Ukraine would presumably bring massive sanctions down on Russia (exclusion from Swift has been mentioned), which would not make life very pleasant in the Kremlin.
Let's say Russia invades and gets kicked out of SWIFT. It then turns off gas supplies to Europe.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
Almost like Hong Kong was on lease to UK and the UK had to give it back to China after 99 years.
Not true? The New Territories were the leased bit. Think we ‘owned’ Hongers
Hongers without The New Territories wouldn't have been viable.
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
Jenny Harries saying you shouldn’t go to parties unless you absolutely have to, on the Monday morning of the week of the first tranche of Christmas parties. Various bods from the government actively discouraging works parties. Just wiped out thousands of bookings worth multiple millions in a sector that has already been hit.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
iirc Whitty said prioritise your socializing. So that you get to see Grandma on 25th, but ditch all the works outings and parties and get together with old mates just before xmas.
Exactly, thus completely flattening the hospitality sector in one of its few (normally) profitable periods of the year. An act of gross negligence that was executed without any compensation for the thousands of businesses affected.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
Same way the USSR tried and failed to strangle West Berlin
(Edit: I've no idea what's causing that new line.)
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
Jenny Harries saying you shouldn’t go to parties unless you absolutely have to, on the Monday morning of the week of the first tranche of Christmas parties. Various bods from the government actively discouraging works parties. Just wiped out thousands of bookings worth multiple millions in a sector that has already been hit.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
Jenny Harries is NOT the government. She is head of UKHSA. The pb was saying take a test before you go. Very different.
She works for the government and is seen as a public face of the health service. Ministers entirely failed in reining her in - meanwhile Whitty etc were saying similarly destructive things. I shudder when I remember that period: it was inexcusably poor messaging.
What would you have done? Nothing? In the face of the unknown potential of omicron. With people screaming on all sides? I think the advice to prioritise was fine. Not great for hospitality but you cannot do everything.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
Almost like Hong Kong was on lease to UK and the UK had to give it back to China after 99 years.
Not true? The New Territories were the leased bit. Think we ‘owned’ Hongers
Hong Kong wasn't sustainable without the New Territories, and Maggie had the good sense to recognise both this and the fact that Britain couldn't credibly defend a tiny scrap of land bordering China from the Chinese army.
That may be true but I think Leon was talking about TSE's claim that HK was leased. Some of it was, but the original part was the UK's.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
Others have said the situation between Taiwan and Kazakhstan are different but in two key ways they are not. The first, as you pointed out, is the message of Western inertia bringing parallels with the the 1930s. The second is that both Russia and China see the respective territories as renegades that rightfully belong to their home nation.
The other way I would look at this is to say, if you are Putin or Xi, why would you NOT invade now? I would argue there might not be a better time - the US is run by a weak President (and, let's be honest, who would bet their mortgage on saying that the Chinese / Russians also don't have something on Hunter Biden - an interesting parallel with Hitler's coming to power in 1933), the EU is weak, America's allies are disheartened by its lack of spine and there are mid-terms coming up where the President's party faces electoral disaster if things continue. If I was Putin or Xi, I would be seriously tempted to call Biden's bluff.
Yes, Hitler progressively taking bits of europe that were ‘rightfully German anyway’ is a striking parallel. First the Ruhr. Then Austria and the Sudetenland. Likewise HK and Taiwan to China
Let's do "would you bet the mortgage on..." question again. How many on here would bet their mortgage that the US would be prepared to inflict severe economic sanctions on Russia if it invaded Ukraine or China intervened in Taiwan?
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
Jenny Harries saying you shouldn’t go to parties unless you absolutely have to, on the Monday morning of the week of the first tranche of Christmas parties. Various bods from the government actively discouraging works parties. Just wiped out thousands of bookings worth multiple millions in a sector that has already been hit.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
iirc Whitty said prioritise your socializing. So that you get to see Grandma on 25th, but ditch all the works outings and parties and get together with old mates just before xmas.
Exactly, thus completely flattening the hospitality sector in one of its few (normally) profitable periods of the year. An act of gross negligence that was executed without any compensation for the thousands of businesses affected.
Yup. Casual vandalism by an unaccountable bureaucrat who doesn’t have to face the voters. Instead he gets a gong
With power must come responsibility. Labour should have this in their manifesto. A reckoning for ALL when this horror eventually ends
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
If it weren’t for the bit about ‘violence’ they could be talking about Remainers 2016-19
Usual bollocks over reaction as normal. Are you not capable of not overreacting, exaggerating, panicking about absolutely everything?
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind that doing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Good point. I assume they want to get Taiwan the long way, via attrition.
Similarly an invasion of Ukraine would presumably bring massive sanctions down on Russia (exclusion from Swift has been mentioned), which would not make life very pleasant in the Kremlin.
Let's say Russia invades and gets kicked out of SWIFT. It then turns off gas supplies to Europe.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
Almost like Hong Kong was on lease to UK and the UK had to give it back to China after 99 years.
Not true? The New Territories were the leased bit. Think we ‘owned’ Hongers
Hong Kong wasn't sustainable without the New Territories, and Maggie had the good sense to recognise both this and the fact that Britain couldn't credibly defend a tiny scrap of land bordering China from the Chinese army.
That may be true but I think Leon was talking about TSE's claim that HK was leased. Some of it was, but the original part was the UK's.
The New Territories were leased, but Hong Kong Island was not.
However... as we captured Hong Kong during the first Opium War, and ceded to the UK at the Treaty of Nanking, the Chinese never really - shall we say... - let it go. They regard it as something of theirs they were forced at gunpoint to give up.
Unfortunately (for the UK), when it came to the talks, the Chinese government informed Mrs Thatcher that (a) they would not be releasing the New Territories, and (b) that the existing water supply arrangement would not be renewed. So, would the UK like to discuss the peaceful handover of Hong Kong?
There is no Hong Kong without a supply of fresh water, so the UK didn't have a whole bunch of choice.
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
If it weren’t for the bit about ‘violence’ they could be talking about Remainers 2016-19
Usual bollocks over reaction as normal. Are you not capable of not overreacting, exaggerating, panicking about absolutely everything?
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
If it weren’t for the bit about ‘violence’ they could be talking about Remainers 2016-19
Usual bollocks over reaction as normal. Are you not capable of not overreacting, exaggerating, panicking about absolutely everything?
No, but I am capable of simply winding people up when I’m bored
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
If it weren’t for the bit about ‘violence’ they could be talking about Remainers 2016-19
Usual bollocks over reaction as normal. Are you not capable of not overreacting, exaggerating, panicking about absolutely everything?
No, but I am capable of simply winding people up when I’m bored
😀 I think you are mistaking who is doing the winding up.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
Others have said the situation between Taiwan and Kazakhstan are different but in two key ways they are not. The first, as you pointed out, is the message of Western inertia bringing parallels with the the 1930s. The second is that both Russia and China see the respective territories as renegades that rightfully belong to their home nation.
The other way I would look at this is to say, if you are Putin or Xi, why would you NOT invade now? I would argue there might not be a better time - the US is run by a weak President (and, let's be honest, who would bet their mortgage on saying that the Chinese / Russians also don't have something on Hunter Biden - an interesting parallel with Hitler's coming to power in 1933), the EU is weak, America's allies are disheartened by its lack of spine and there are mid-terms coming up where the President's party faces electoral disaster if things continue. If I was Putin or Xi, I would be seriously tempted to call Biden's bluff.
Yes, Hitler progressively taking bits of europe that were ‘rightfully German anyway’ is a striking parallel. First the Ruhr. Then Austria and the Sudetenland. Likewise HK and Taiwan to China
The problem the Chinese have always had with Taiwan is their own propaganda. Most Chinese think that the Taiwanese are desperate for reunification and are only held back by their mendacious leaders. (I have heard this from intelligent Chinese business leaders, who really should know better.)
This makes any kind of bloody conflict a little difficult, because the Taiwanese aren't supposed to be fighting, they're supposed to be throwing flowers.
Xi would need to strangle Taiwan via a blockade. Which is possible, but far from easy.
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
Jenny Harries saying you shouldn’t go to parties unless you absolutely have to, on the Monday morning of the week of the first tranche of Christmas parties. Various bods from the government actively discouraging works parties. Just wiped out thousands of bookings worth multiple millions in a sector that has already been hit.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
Jenny Harries is NOT the government. She is head of UKHSA. The pb was saying take a test before you go. Very different.
She works for the government and is seen as a public face of the health service. Ministers entirely failed in reining her in - meanwhile Whitty etc were saying similarly destructive things. I shudder when I remember that period: it was inexcusably poor messaging.
What would you have done? Nothing? In the face of the unknown potential of omicron. With people screaming on all sides? I think the advice to prioritise was fine. Not great for hospitality but you cannot do everything.
I have already told you! I’d have compensated them for the loss of trade. It was not beyond the wit of man. As it is, the words of Whitty et al carpeted the entire sector without any compensation. A disgrace.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
As well as that, my understanding is that the PRC doesn't really have the capability to make an amphibious assault across the Taiwan Strait, certainly not against a very well-armed opponent.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind that doing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Good point. I assume they want to get Taiwan the long way, via attrition.
Similarly an invasion of Ukraine would presumably bring massive sanctions down on Russia (exclusion from Swift has been mentioned), which would not make life very pleasant in the Kremlin.
Let's say Russia invades and gets kicked out of SWIFT. It then turns off gas supplies to Europe.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind that doing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Good point. I assume they want to get Taiwan the long way, via attrition.
Similarly an invasion of Ukraine would presumably bring massive sanctions down on Russia (exclusion from Swift has been mentioned), which would not make life very pleasant in the Kremlin.
Let's say Russia invades and gets kicked out of SWIFT. It then turns off gas supplies to Europe.
Deliberately trashed by the government without compensation. An absolute scandal.
I think that’s a little unfair. We’ve called on the government to move towards living with Covid. Awful timing for omicron for sure, but was a better option really locking down plus furlough? Some funding has been made available. These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
Jenny Harries saying you shouldn’t go to parties unless you absolutely have to, on the Monday morning of the week of the first tranche of Christmas parties. Various bods from the government actively discouraging works parties. Just wiped out thousands of bookings worth multiple millions in a sector that has already been hit.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
iirc Whitty said prioritise your socializing. So that you get to see Grandma on 25th, but ditch all the works outings and parties and get together with old mates just before xmas.
Exactly, thus completely flattening the hospitality sector in one of its few (normally) profitable periods of the year. An act of gross negligence that was executed without any compensation for the thousands of businesses affected.
Yup. Casual vandalism by an unaccountable bureaucrat who doesn’t have to face the voters. Instead he gets a gong
With power must come responsibility. Labour should have this in their manifesto. A reckoning for ALL when this horror eventually ends
Well ideally yes. But are Labour really going to take on the public sector machine? Labour is the party of the public sector machine.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
Almost like Hong Kong was on lease to UK and the UK had to give it back to China after 99 years.
Not true? The New Territories were the leased bit. Think we ‘owned’ Hongers
Hong Kong wasn't sustainable without the New Territories, and Maggie had the good sense to recognise both this and the fact that Britain couldn't credibly defend a tiny scrap of land bordering China from the Chinese army.
That may be true but I think Leon was talking about TSE's claim that HK was leased. Some of it was, but the original part was the UK's.
The New Territories were leased, but Hong Kong Island was not.
However... as we captured Hong Kong during the first Opium War, and ceded to the UK at the Treaty of Nanking, the Chinese never really - shall we say... - let it go. They regard it as something of theirs they were forced at gunpoint to give up.
Unfortunately (for the UK), when it came to the talks, the Chinese government informed Mrs Thatcher that (a) they would not be releasing the New Territories, and (b) that the existing water supply arrangement would not be renewed. So, would the UK like to discuss the peaceful handover of Hong Kong?
There is no Hong Kong without a supply of fresh water, so the UK didn't have a whole bunch of choice.
Absolutely, there was no way.
Wonder what the Spaniards would ever be tempted to do the same with Gibraltar?
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
Others have said the situation between Taiwan and Kazakhstan are different but in two key ways they are not. The first, as you pointed out, is the message of Western inertia bringing parallels with the the 1930s. The second is that both Russia and China see the respective territories as renegades that rightfully belong to their home nation.
The other way I would look at this is to say, if you are Putin or Xi, why would you NOT invade now? I would argue there might not be a better time - the US is run by a weak President (and, let's be honest, who would bet their mortgage on saying that the Chinese / Russians also don't have something on Hunter Biden - an interesting parallel with Hitler's coming to power in 1933), the EU is weak, America's allies are disheartened by its lack of spine and there are mid-terms coming up where the President's party faces electoral disaster if things continue. If I was Putin or Xi, I would be seriously tempted to call Biden's bluff.
Yes, Hitler progressively taking bits of europe that were ‘rightfully German anyway’ is a striking parallel. First the Ruhr. Then Austria and the Sudetenland. Likewise HK and Taiwan to China
The problem the Chinese have always had with Taiwan is their own propaganda. Most Chinese think that the Taiwanese are desperate for reunification and are only held back by their mendacious leaders. (I have heard this from intelligent Chinese business leaders, who really should know better.)
This makes any kind of bloody conflict a little difficult, because the Taiwanese aren't supposed to be fighting, they're supposed to be throwing flowers.
Xi would need to strangle Taiwan via a blockade. Which is possible, but far from easy.
You then need to struggle with thr form thr blockade takes what with TSMC producing something like 50% of thr World's computer chips. The chips which China assembles into finished products.
Ot would have to be the threat of a blockade rather than am actual blockade as an actual blockade crashes China.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind that doing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Good point. I assume they want to get Taiwan the long way, via attrition.
Similarly an invasion of Ukraine would presumably bring massive sanctions down on Russia (exclusion from Swift has been mentioned), which would not make life very pleasant in the Kremlin.
Let's say Russia invades and gets kicked out of SWIFT. It then turns off gas supplies to Europe.
And then let's say the US does this, does Putin stick or twist? Withdraw from Ukraine or invade the Baltics (with help from Belarus) and dare the US and its allies to take the ultimate step?
How many US / EU citizens would be prepared to perish for the Balts?
(PS there is a reason why Russia kept relatively quiet when Trump was in office and it wasn't because he was a Russian spy, it's because he was considered nuts enough to possibly go OTT)
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
Others have said the situation between Taiwan and Kazakhstan are different but in two key ways they are not. The first, as you pointed out, is the message of Western inertia bringing parallels with the the 1930s. The second is that both Russia and China see the respective territories as renegades that rightfully belong to their home nation.
The other way I would look at this is to say, if you are Putin or Xi, why would you NOT invade now? I would argue there might not be a better time - the US is run by a weak President (and, let's be honest, who would bet their mortgage on saying that the Chinese / Russians also don't have something on Hunter Biden - an interesting parallel with Hitler's coming to power in 1933), the EU is weak, America's allies are disheartened by its lack of spine and there are mid-terms coming up where the President's party faces electoral disaster if things continue. If I was Putin or Xi, I would be seriously tempted to call Biden's bluff.
Yes, Hitler progressively taking bits of europe that were ‘rightfully German anyway’ is a striking parallel. First the Ruhr. Then Austria and the Sudetenland. Likewise HK and Taiwan to China
The problem the Chinese have always had with Taiwan is their own propaganda. Most Chinese think that the Taiwanese are desperate for reunification and are only held back by their mendacious leaders. (I have heard this from intelligent Chinese business leaders, who really should know better.)
This makes any kind of bloody conflict a little difficult, because the Taiwanese aren't supposed to be fighting, they're supposed to be throwing flowers.
Xi would need to strangle Taiwan via a blockade. Which is possible, but far from easy.
You then need to struggle with thr form thr blockade takes what with TSMC producing something like 50% of thr World's computer chips. The chips which China assembles into finished products.
Otbwpuld jave to be the threat of a bloclade rather than am actusl blockade as an actual blockade crashes China.
Time to blow the crumbs from that keyboard, just sayin.
Off topic, re Kazakhstan, it feels like one of two things has happened:
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
An unopposed Putin incursion into Kazakhstan will also embolden Xi re Taiwan
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
Others have said the situation between Taiwan and Kazakhstan are different but in two key ways they are not. The first, as you pointed out, is the message of Western inertia bringing parallels with the the 1930s. The second is that both Russia and China see the respective territories as renegades that rightfully belong to their home nation.
The other way I would look at this is to say, if you are Putin or Xi, why would you NOT invade now? I would argue there might not be a better time - the US is run by a weak President (and, let's be honest, who would bet their mortgage on saying that the Chinese / Russians also don't have something on Hunter Biden - an interesting parallel with Hitler's coming to power in 1933), the EU is weak, America's allies are disheartened by its lack of spine and there are mid-terms coming up where the President's party faces electoral disaster if things continue. If I was Putin or Xi, I would be seriously tempted to call Biden's bluff.
Yes, Hitler progressively taking bits of europe that were ‘rightfully German anyway’ is a striking parallel. First the Ruhr. Then Austria and the Sudetenland. Likewise HK and Taiwan to China
Let's do "would you bet the mortgage on..." question again. How many on here would bet their mortgage that the US would be prepared to inflict severe economic sanctions on Russia if it invaded Ukraine or China intervened in Taiwan?
Well, China can't simply invade Taiwan. It's 120 miles of Ocean from China, and there aren't nice flat beaches on the China side. You would need a flotilla of landing vessels that went all the way around to the far side of the island. Plus, of course, you would need to actually build tens of thousands of barges. In secrecy.
Now, could they, if they committed, invade Taiwan?
Yes, absolutely. But it wouldn't be an "out the blue" thing, because this would be an amphibious invasion over a distance much greater than the channel with at least as many troops as the D-Day landings (against a heavily armed enemy with the latest Western fighter jets and French submarines). Sure, they could do it. But not tomorrow.
So, the question is a very different one. If China was building a force of barges and martialling them in the ports nearest Taiwan, what would the West do? And I suspect the answer is that they'd happily sell the Taiwanese lots more weapons. The French certainly would and I suspect the Americans would too. You might also see some exercises around Taiwan, that would make the Chinese job much more difficult.
If the Chinese wanted to take Taiwan, the only plausible way is via strangulation. It would be a slow uptick in diplomatic pressure; you'd refuse flights from Taiwan being able to overfly China; combined with - eventually - ships outside Taiwanese ports.
People make very weird assumptions about how easy it would be for China to invade Taiwan.
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
Xi is said to see retaking Taiwan as his final goal. Finally erasing China’s century of shame. The achievement which will put him in the pantheon. That’s pretty ominous because he is not young
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
Almost like Hong Kong was on lease to UK and the UK had to give it back to China after 99 years.
Not true? The New Territories were the leased bit. Think we ‘owned’ Hongers
Hong Kong wasn't sustainable without the New Territories, and Maggie had the good sense to recognise both this and the fact that Britain couldn't credibly defend a tiny scrap of land bordering China from the Chinese army.
That may be true but I think Leon was talking about TSE's claim that HK was leased. Some of it was, but the original part was the UK's.
The New Territories were leased, but Hong Kong Island was not.
However... as we captured Hong Kong during the first Opium War, and ceded to the UK at the Treaty of Nanking, the Chinese never really - shall we say... - let it go. They regard it as something of theirs they were forced at gunpoint to give up.
Unfortunately (for the UK), when it came to the talks, the Chinese government informed Mrs Thatcher that (a) they would not be releasing the New Territories, and (b) that the existing water supply arrangement would not be renewed. So, would the UK like to discuss the peaceful handover of Hong Kong?
There is no Hong Kong without a supply of fresh water, so the UK didn't have a whole bunch of choice.
Absolutely, there was no way.
Wonder what the Spaniards would ever be tempted to do the same with Gibraltar?
Nah. The UK would nuke them or so we are told on PB. Wouldn't leave many rock apes, though.
Comments
...
No. Not like anything I can think of just now.
Betting on a Tory lead this month is a fool’s bet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jFesZ-jxRw
1. The US / EU have essentially done a backroom deal with Putin that says "fine, you can intervene in Kazakhstan but the quid pro quo is no Ukraine movements (for now)"
OR
2. Putin knows Biden / the EU is so spineless that he can send his troops into Kazakhstan without serious implications, in which case he is probably going to be emboldened to do something in the Ukraine.
I hope it's the first, I fear it's the second.
We are beginning to see what a world Not run by the West will look like. Not pretty; quite sad
The world will miss its just and boyish master
https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1479041428055597056
Tory peer Michelle Mone secretly involved in PPE firm she referred to government
Exclusive: Leaked files suggest Mone and her husband were involved in business given £200m contracts
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/06/tory-peer-michelle-mone-involved-ppe-medpro-government-contracts
BritNat Mone was “incandescent with rage”. I’ll bet she was.
And what would you suggest "the West" does? The government of Kazakhstan asked for help for help from the Russians. And they gave it.
Now, it's a brutal repressionary regime in Kazakhstan, that you would not wish to be a citizen of. It's also a Russian client state (like most of the other poor countries on Russia's southern border). But ultimately, there's nothing the West can do about it.
https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/1479174644036943874
"In short, the Republic faces an existential threat from a movement that is openly contemptuous of democracy and has shown that it is willing to use violence to achieve its ends. No self-governing society can survive such a threat by denying that it exists."
NY Times
One would be an invasion of a hostile power over 120 miles of Ocean guarded by a well equipped air force and navy.
The other is a regime inviting Russian troops in.
What are we supposed to re Kazakhstan? We can say "please don't murder your citizens". But the fact is that the regimes in the Caucuses have pretty much all got (Russian supported) despots who behave pretty poorly. And they can do so, because the Russians come running with tanks and soldiers whenever necessary.
This is a regime that's brutally repressed its citizens for decades, and what do we do? We invite them to the White House for pictures with the President.
We’re toothless and fatigued. In decline.
I've also never thought Putin had any real interest in taking over Ukraine, though I agree there's more evidence that he might. He'd like to destabilise and unnerve it and get some Western concessions - could be wrong, but I doubt if it's more than that.
"[Christian] Movement leaders now appear to be working to prime the base for the next attempt to subvert the electoral process."
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/opinion/jan-6-christian-nationalism.html
Would we really go to war with Xi to stop him taking Taiwan? I doubt it. No more than we would go to war with Putin over Ukraine
As for “Xi shows no real sign of remotely contemplating invasion” that’s remarkably naive. The Taiwanese certainly don’t agree with you
‘Taiwan fears Chinese invasion by 2025’
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-could-invade-by-2025-taiwan-fears-3wwfb7mv8
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/desk-russie-putin-plan-for-europe-and-ukraine/
These are tough times, but to call it a deliberate act is too strong.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/06/boris-johnson-accused-corruption-great-exhibition-text-flat-refurb
Never mind thatbdoing so would blow up the world economy (via shattering compiter chip supplies) that China is currently entirely dependent on. If ASML ever sell top end machinery to China then otnos a different matter but everything goes boom if China invades Taiwan.
If he does, he probably thinks it only applies to the little people in junior ranks.
"29 November 2020, 12.59pm
Hi David
I am afraid parts of our flat are still a bit of a tip and am keen to allow Lulu Lytle to get on with it. Can I possibly ask her to get in touch with you for approvals ?
Many thanks and all best
Boris "
...with the idea that Boris claims not to have known that Brownlow was funding renovations to the No 11 residence?
– Barbossa, Pirates of the Caribbean.
If it wasn’t deliberate, it was an act of gross stupidity - I don’t know which is worse.
And that will embolden Putin.
I wonder if China might choose to strangle Taiwan into submission. Refuse to trade with countries that feed Taiwan. Try and shut down the internet. Same way the USSR tried to strangle West Berlin
They took Hong Kong without a bullet being fired…
And the point so often made about the EU's biggest two mistakes could stop being merely comic. Mistake one: to be in denial about the EU's state like ambitions. Mistake two: to think that in 'ever closer union' having a common currency and central bank, to say nothing about harmonising standards for My Little Pony stickers, was way ahead of all EU members being in the same defence alliance and having proper defence forces.
If only the medical elite of a major G20 nation at the vanguard of the outbreak had told us this at the time.
Similarly an invasion of Ukraine would presumably bring massive sanctions down on Russia (exclusion from Swift has been mentioned), which would not make life very pleasant in the Kremlin.
Nobody would weep if the UK government took control of Chelsea FC, sold off all the players and ground and closed Chelsea FC down.
The other way I would look at this is to say, if you are Putin or Xi, why would you NOT invade now? I would argue there might not be a better time - the US is run by a weak President (and, let's be honest, who would bet their mortgage on saying that the Chinese / Russians also don't have something on Hunter Biden - an interesting parallel with Hitler's coming to power in 1933), the EU is weak, America's allies are disheartened by its lack of spine and there are mid-terms coming up where the President's party faces electoral disaster if things continue. If I was Putin or Xi, I would be seriously tempted to call Biden's bluff.
Thanks to @Fishing for making my efforts to try to work out the winner of the 2.30 at Lingfield seem positively amateurish.
There's a thing about "value" in all this but as any horse racing punter will tell you, that one is in the eye of the beholder. Back when I punted seriously, I would create my own tissue prices for some races and compare with how the bookies priced up a race.
On other matters, Kazakhstan becomes another thing in the Putin in-tray so we may see the rhetoric on the Ukraine toned down a little. "Helping out" in Almaty, as in Minsk, is a low-risk strategy for Putin in terms of any Russian casualties or any serious destabilisation of the ruling group in each country. If anything, it binds Kazakhstan closer to Russia.
Ukraine is a very different pot of beluga by comparison - there are too many risks and not enough rewards for anything to really happen. It helps to keep the pot simmering and the West and Kiev on edge but that's all it is.
Elsewhere, a single Council by-election tonight at Gedling - a Labour seat but with Conservative, Labour, LD, Green and No Description parties running. I've always wondered about voting No Description - I presume they can have whatever policy you want.
Quick look at the latest Infratest poll from Germany - very little change since last September's election. The SPD-FDP-Green coalition still enjoys majority support at 53% (+1) with the Union still well behind on 23% (-1).
Beyond that, there are sound reasons to believe that future Covid variants will be more transmissible and less virulent than Omicron - because the former seems to be contingent upon the latter. It looks encouragingly as if the pandemic is almost over, thank goodness.
OT
Anyone seen this vid from Dr John Campbell about Omicron from mice?
Very interesting
Who do you reckon blinks first?
(Edit: I've no idea what's causing that new line.)
I think the advice to prioritise was fine. Not great for hospitality but you cannot do everything.
With power must come responsibility. Labour should have this in their manifesto. A reckoning for ALL when this horror eventually ends
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interbank_Financial_Telecommunication#U.S._government_involvement
However... as we captured Hong Kong during the first Opium War, and ceded to the UK at the Treaty of Nanking, the Chinese never really - shall we say... - let it go. They regard it as something of theirs they were forced at gunpoint to give up.
Unfortunately (for the UK), when it came to the talks, the Chinese government informed Mrs Thatcher that (a) they would not be releasing the New Territories, and (b) that the existing water supply arrangement would not be renewed. So, would the UK like to discuss the peaceful handover of Hong Kong?
There is no Hong Kong without a supply of fresh water, so the UK didn't have a whole bunch of choice.
This makes any kind of bloody conflict a little difficult, because the Taiwanese aren't supposed to be fighting, they're supposed to be throwing flowers.
Xi would need to strangle Taiwan via a blockade. Which is possible, but far from easy.
...On the other hand it's an economic basket case living on borrowed time.
Which is closest to the truth, I wonder?
"Salami tactics?"
"Slice by slice."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o861Ka9TtT4
Wonder what the Spaniards would ever be tempted to do the same with Gibraltar?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/06/kelly-ernby-california-prosecutor-dies-covid
Ot would have to be the threat of a blockade rather than am actual blockade as an actual blockade crashes China.
And then let's say the US does this, does Putin stick or twist? Withdraw from Ukraine or invade the Baltics (with help from Belarus) and dare the US and its allies to take the ultimate step?
How many US / EU citizens would be prepared to perish for the Balts?
(PS there is a reason why Russia kept relatively quiet when Trump was in office and it wasn't because he was a Russian spy, it's because he was considered nuts enough to possibly go OTT)
Now, could they, if they committed, invade Taiwan?
Yes, absolutely. But it wouldn't be an "out the blue" thing, because this would be an amphibious invasion over a distance much greater than the channel with at least as many troops as the D-Day landings (against a heavily armed enemy with the latest Western fighter jets and French submarines). Sure, they could do it. But not tomorrow.
So, the question is a very different one. If China was building a force of barges and martialling them in the ports nearest Taiwan, what would the West do? And I suspect the answer is that they'd happily sell the Taiwanese lots more weapons. The French certainly would and I suspect the Americans would too. You might also see some exercises around Taiwan, that would make the Chinese job much more difficult.
If the Chinese wanted to take Taiwan, the only plausible way is via strangulation. It would be a slow uptick in diplomatic pressure; you'd refuse flights from Taiwan being able to overfly China; combined with - eventually - ships outside Taiwanese ports.